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With just eight campaigning days to go – Tories still strong favourites to take Batley & Spen – poli

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  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,779


    Yes, I'd missed the Delta poll (taken over virtually the same period as ComRes, with an unusually large sample). There's an interesting subsample of 2019 Con holds, Con gains and non-Con holds. For the "Con gain" section, the Dlta result is a 42-42 tie with Labour - which is a larger swing than the overall poll. By contrast, the 2019 Con holds now have a 54-26 Tory lead, suggesting that they're piling up support where they already hold it. The poll also shows a LibDem bounce in the south to 14%, but not elsewhere, and it does look from both poll as if the C+A sensation hasn't produced a major national impact.

    https://deltapoll.co.uk/polls/voteint220621

    Indeed and we saw some signs of this in the County Council elections. There are small islands of LD activity and progress surrounded by oceans of nothing.

    In truth, even at their zenith in the mid-2000s, the LDs were only ever active and competitive in perhaps 100-120 seats. Now, I'd argue that's more like 50 seats but in those seats they are a growing threat to the Conservatives (not Labour).

    Were the LDs to take 20-25 seats off the Conservatives next time, that might only dent the Conservative majority if Labour is or are unable to make any headway. A Conservative majority of 40-50 based on some further gains from Labour offset by losses to the LDs and SNP - credible?

  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Fucking hell Kane that was a sitter
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,320
    Pickford. Nae bosh.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Craig Burley is still going to be answer to the question "who was the last player to score for Scotland at a major finals", isn't he?

    Fuck we're fucked. We don't do the goal thing.
    Wat is dis "gool" thing you speak of?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,381
    dixiedean said:

    Pickford. Nae bosh.

    Everyone needs a radge mackem in goal
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,518
    Leon said:

    Fucking hell Kane that was a sitter

    Nah it was a good save.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,939

    BREAKING: India's health ministry describes Delta Plus, a new mutation of the Delta coronavirus variant, as a Variant of Concern https://t.co/8QZrqIpCiW

    I thought Delta Plus was a frequent flyer programme.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,368

    glw said:

    BREAKING: India's health ministry describes Delta Plus, a new mutation of the Delta coronavirus variant, as a Variant of Concern https://t.co/8QZrqIpCiW

    Oh FFS!
    We're going to need a bigger alphabet
    We just need to use some additional alphabets. Russian and Hebrew buy us another 55 letters, which should see us out to October at least...

    Also: poor Scotland.
    Arabic adds a further 28: make that 33 if you add the additional letters from Farsi and Urdu
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fucking hell Kane that was a sitter

    Nah it was a good save.
    That was a gold plated chance for a supposed world class striker. They have to go in, or people will wonder if you are indeed world class
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    Charles said:

    FPT

    O/T - Can someone explain to me why discussions of white privilege which really only started in the UK in the last few years is the reason why white working class children have had poor educational outcomes for decades?

    Am I missing something major or are people talking shite?

    The phrase "white privilege" is newish.

    The attitude of aggressive disparagement towards the working class is not. As is the recognition that this disparagement is not applied to the same behaviours when evinced by members of protected minority groups.

    I suggest you try this book by a noted right wing, reactionary extremist (Owen Jones) - https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=9781781683989
    Owen Jones always talks shite.

    If you look at the stats you can tell roughly where most people will end up in an educational outcome by their class and the occupation of their parents, which is why you see so many black and other non white children at the bottom of the education league tables.

    My life outcome was largely determined by the fact my father was a doctor from Dore, if my father had been a bus driver from Darnall I know my life outcomes would be so much different for the worse.
    My Dad left school at 17 and worked his way around the world doing odd jobs…
    Your father was an amazing person with such a drive.

    The philanthropic work he did says so much about him.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fucking hell Kane that was a sitter

    Nah it was a good save.
    That was a gold plated chance for a supposed world class striker. They have to go in, or people will wonder if you are indeed world class
    Yes, you can see why he hasn't won a trophy in his career.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,518
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fucking hell Kane that was a sitter

    Nah it was a good save.
    That was a gold plated chance for a supposed world class striker. They have to go in, or people will wonder if you are indeed world class
    It's not a sitter though, you'd want him to score but it was a good save.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    TimT said:

    glw said:

    BREAKING: India's health ministry describes Delta Plus, a new mutation of the Delta coronavirus variant, as a Variant of Concern https://t.co/8QZrqIpCiW

    Oh FFS!
    We're going to need a bigger alphabet
    We just need to use some additional alphabets. Russian and Hebrew buy us another 55 letters, which should see us out to October at least...

    Also: poor Scotland.
    Arabic adds a further 28: make that 33 if you add the additional letters from Farsi and Urdu
    Given that this is the Wuhan Flu, surely we should use the Chinese alphabet?

    It has maybe 50,000 characters, which should see us through the school hols, variant-wise
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Omnium said:

    Andy_JS said:

    How George Galloway is described on the George Galloway website.

    "There’s only one George Galloway. Six-term Parliamentarian, freedom fighter, man of the world. Writer, broadcaster, film-maker. Football and boxing enthusiast, movie-goer, box-set binger. Husband, father of five children, Scottish of Irish background, honorary Palestinian, Iraqi, Syrian, Egyptian… Friend of Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Benazir Bhutto, Yasser Arafat, Tariq Aziz. Trembling with indignation at any injustice, anywhere."

    https://www.georgegalloway.com

    It's good but it's no "My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions and loyal servant to the TRUE emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next."
    Too wordy

    "Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die."
    "Do you feel lucky, punk?"
    Hasta la vista, baby
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Is it just me that finds the whole notion of third place finishers qualifying for the last 16 rather ridiculous?

    Why not just have 8 additional countries qualify for the tournament and can they have 8 groups rather than 6?

    UEFA only has (checks t'web) 55 members, so maybe they simply think that having as many as 32 involved would risk there being too many minnows and consequent shellackings earlier on in the tournament, i.e. that the effort and expense of organising all the extra matches would exceed the reward?
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Okay, decided I can’t be arsed to stay up until 1am, to watch a team that know they’ve qualified already, when the alarm goes off at 06:30. Laters PB.

    Watch the Scotland match, that has something riding on it.

    If Scotland qualify for the knockout stages then every Scot will be saying 'I haven't felt that good since Archie Gemmill scored against Holland in 1978!'
    Your lust for life, is more than mine. I choose life, and choose sleep.
    Absolutely adore that film (and T2).

    That film made such an impression on me, it put me off trying drugs for life.

    The soundtrack was fabulous.
    I can’t think of any other films that I can pretty much recite word for word.

    Maybe it was just that summer of 1996, when I was 18 and starting to live life, but still one of the all time favourite movies.

    “Lager, lager, lager...”
    “Begbie didn’t do drugs, Begbie did people...”
    “Choose pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrasment to the selfish, fcuked-up brats you’ve spawned to replace yourselves...”
    “We called him the Mother Superior, on account of the length of his habit...”
    “A thousand years from now, there will be no guys and girls, just wankers...”
    “It’s shite being Scottish...”
    “The worst toilet in Scotland...”
    “It’s easy to be philosophical, when some other c*** has shite for blood...”
    That baby on the ceiling scene as Renton is trying to go cold turkey really freaked me out as a teenager watching that for the first time...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fucking hell Kane that was a sitter

    Nah it was a good save.
    That was a gold plated chance for a supposed world class striker. They have to go in, or people will wonder if you are indeed world class
    Yes, you can see why he hasn't won a trophy in his career.
    I really hope he moves to Man City. He's a fine player, and deserves some silverware, even if he is no Gerd Mueller
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Fucking hell Kane that was a sitter

    Nah it was a good save.
    That was a gold plated chance for a supposed world class striker. They have to go in, or people will wonder if you are indeed world class
    Yes, you can see why he hasn't won a trophy in his career.
    I really hope he moves to Man City. He's a fine player, and deserves some silverware, even if he is no Gerd Mueller
    Pep Fraudiola will ruin him.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Wild shots from Croatia. Wastage of chances

    If they get one more, Scotland go home. Thin ice for the North Britons
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Craig Burley is still going to be answer to the question "who was the last player to score for Scotland at a major finals", isn't he?

    Fuck we're fucked. We don't do the goal thing.
    Wat is dis "gool" thing you speak of?
    It's where the ball goes into your opponent's net. AIUI you get some sort of a point for that which helps determine the winner.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    dixiedean said:

    Currently England are most likely to face Germany, at home, in the second round if they win the group while Spain are the most likely opposition, in Copenhagen, should England finish second.

    Who could England get if they come 3rd? Because it sounds like a good idea to throw this one..

    Will be one not to miss if the Czechs decide the same!
    A draw is best for England, but the Czechs will come top unless they lose. So the Czechs have either to persuade England to put the ball in their net or contrive between them to score an og. England just have to miss all their chances.
    Doesn’t that end with both teams trying to score own goals?

    Czechs start aiming to lose
    England repeat wanting a draw

    Etc etc
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Croatia the better team
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Scotland!!!!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,122
    Yes!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Bravo Scotland!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,751
    edited June 2021
    Yaaas!

    Against the run of play for sure.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    edited June 2021
    Charles said:

    dixiedean said:

    Currently England are most likely to face Germany, at home, in the second round if they win the group while Spain are the most likely opposition, in Copenhagen, should England finish second.

    Who could England get if they come 3rd? Because it sounds like a good idea to throw this one..

    Will be one not to miss if the Czechs decide the same!
    A draw is best for England, but the Czechs will come top unless they lose. So the Czechs have either to persuade England to put the ball in their net or contrive between them to score an og. England just have to miss all their chances.
    Doesn’t that end with both teams trying to score own goals?

    Czechs start aiming to lose
    England repeat wanting a draw

    Etc etc
    Question

    "I wonder if you can help me," asks Aladair Maughan. "I remember reading about a match being played in an African cup competition (I think) where both teams were trying to score own goals in order to try to make/try to prevent the game from going into extra time and being won on a golden goal. Does anyone know the exact details of this, or if it's just an urban myth?

    Answer

    It might sound like an urban myth, Alasdair, but it's (almost) 100% true. The crazy events you describe took place in a Shell Caribbean Cup match between Barbados and Grenada in 1994.

    Going into the last group game Barbados needed to beat Grenada by two goals to qualify for the final stages. Anything less and Grenada went through

    So far, so simple. Except that the organisers had decided that, in the case of extra time, a golden goal would count as two goals.

    You don't have to be Einstein to work out what happened next. Barbados raced to a 2-0 lead before Grenada made it 2-1 with seven minutes remaining. The Barjans were heading out unless they scored a goal; any goal.

    Fortunately for them, with three minutes left, they did just that - only not in the right net. Their deliberate own goal made it 2-2 and propelled the game towards extra time.

    Now, farcically, Grenada needed to score a goal (at either end) to go through. Cue frantic defending of both penalty areas by Barbados until the final whistle.

    Such dubious shenanigans were rewarded, however, when Barbados scored the golden goal - this time in Grenada's net - four minutes into extra time to win the match 3-2 (or 4-2 according to the rules of the tournament) and qualify for the finals.

    Incidentally, the match is detailed in more depth here

    However this isn't the only example of a blatant own-goal being scored to further a team's ambitions. As James Syme points out, it also happened in the infamous 1998 Tiger Cup game between Thailand and Indonesia.

    "Whoever won would get to face hot favourites Vietnam in the next round, so both teams tried to throw the match," he says. "At 2-2 and with a few minutes left, the Indonesians dropped all pretence and turned on their own goal, now defended by Thai players.

    "In injury time the Indonesian keeper-captain Mursyid Effendi 'saved' the ball, turned round and thumped the ball into his own goal for a 3-2 final result."

    Justice was eventually served, however. For not only did Indonesia and Thailand lose their semi-final games (to Singapore and Vietnam, respectively) but both were also fined $40,000 for "violating the spirit of the game." Meanwhile Mursyid Effendi was banned for life.

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2002/mar/28/theknowledge.sport
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    OH YESSSSSS!!!!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,320

    Is it just me that finds the whole notion of third place finishers qualifying for the last 16 rather ridiculous?

    Why not just have 8 additional countries qualify for the tournament and can they have 8 groups rather than 6?

    UEFA only has (checks t'web) 55 members, so maybe they simply think that having as many as 32 involved would risk there being too many minnows and consequent shellackings earlier on in the tournament, i.e. that the effort and expense of organising all the extra matches would exceed the reward?
    A better system, for me, would be to put the 4 best group winners into the QF. Have the other 2 and 6 runners-up play off for the other 4 places.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    FFS trying to get my daughter to sleep. Would prefer a dispiriting Scotland loss to this racket.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Hahahaha the gammony Scot!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    Scotland.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,494



    What I find interesting about the whole discussion of White Privilege is that the Right has a narrative that the Left use it to attack working class white people. But speaking personally as someone who moves in fairly Woke circles at times, I have never seen it used in that way. Never.
    I've seen it used to describe situations like the following: being able to engage with the police and assume that the police will believe them and not assume they are a criminal; being able to get into a few scrapes as a kid and get away without a criminal record; knowing that the press won't always try to dig up dirt on you if you ever make it as a footballer or something; knowing that the Home Office won't try to arbitrarily deport you; not constantly wondering whether you are being judged on the basis of your skin colour whenever you are slighted in some way; being able to express opinions on social media without receiving torrents of abuse.
    The idea that it's been dreamt up to minimise the problems that come with class discrimination and economic inequality is just plain wrong. So then you have to wonder why the Right is making out that it is. It's really not hard to figure out.

    Really good, perceptive post.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    ping said:

    Croatia the better team

    Who gives a fuck? Scotland were the better team against England. They got 1 point.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557



    What I find interesting about the whole discussion of White Privilege is that the Right has a narrative that the Left use it to attack working class white people. But speaking personally as someone who moves in fairly Woke circles at times, I have never seen it used in that way. Never.
    I've seen it used to describe situations like the following: being able to engage with the police and assume that the police will believe them and not assume they are a criminal; being able to get into a few scrapes as a kid and get away without a criminal record; knowing that the press won't always try to dig up dirt on you if you ever make it as a footballer or something; knowing that the Home Office won't try to arbitrarily deport you; not constantly wondering whether you are being judged on the basis of your skin colour whenever you are slighted in some way; being able to express opinions on social media without receiving torrents of abuse.
    The idea that it's been dreamt up to minimise the problems that come with class discrimination and economic inequality is just plain wrong. So then you have to wonder why the Right is making out that it is. It's really not hard to figure out.

    Really good, perceptive post.
    Bollocks. White Privilege is ABSOLUTELY used to silence white working class people - in America and the UK
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    This is easily winnable for Scotland. Croatia are throwing away chances with mad shots from 30 yards
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    Draw sens Ukraine through and gives Finland a better chance I think ?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    Leon said:

    This is easily winnable for Scotland. Croatia are throwing away chances with mad shots from 30 yards

    I wish Hampden was full. As we saw last night that can make a real difference. Its a bit tepid. Thanks Nicola.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,122
    edited June 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    Draw sens Ukraine through and gives Finland a better chance I think ?

    Finland are hoping for a miracle as they need to get above third in Group F (i.e. need Portugal to lose by three or more goals) or to stay above third in Group E, which looks unlikely. Ukraine need a draw at Hampden.

    Basically, it will be A, F, E and one of D or C.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    How George Galloway is described on the George Galloway website.

    "There’s only one George Galloway. Six-term Parliamentarian, freedom fighter, man of the world. Writer, broadcaster, film-maker. Football and boxing enthusiast, movie-goer, box-set binger. Husband, father of five children, Scottish of Irish background, honorary Palestinian, Iraqi, Syrian, Egyptian… Friend of Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Benazir Bhutto, Yasser Arafat, Tariq Aziz. Trembling with indignation at any injustice, anywhere."

    https://www.georgegalloway.com

    "Man of the world". Oh dear.
    He’s telling us about his life alright! Labour wish he’d never been born
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Digging up the salt in the Danakil


  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    This is easily winnable for Scotland. Croatia are throwing away chances with mad shots from 30 yards

    I wish Hampden was full. As we saw last night that can make a real difference. Its a bit tepid. Thanks Nicola.
    10,000 Scots are still making an impressive noise. Scotland are a decent side, and deserve to go through
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    O/T - What the feck are Scotland doing? I hope they get knocked out tonight.

    England have two players in isolation because they briefly came into contact with Billy Gilmour but no Scotland player or coaching staff have been in close contact with Billy Gilmour.

    An absolute disgrace.

    It just seems incredible that most everyone with Scotland were not in contact with Gilmour but two England players were

    It is inexplicable and frankly absurd
    I some how doubt that the footballers simply train or in their hotel rooms alone, never interacting with one another other than on the training pitch.....about as likely as finding out they aren't spending their downtime asking for nudes from Instagram "models", instead reading the works of Nietzsche.
    "The true man wants 2 things:danger and play. For that reason he wants woman as the most dangerous plaything."

    Not for me, Clive.
    Is that Nietzsche? So true, and especially insightful from a man who had sex maybe twice

    I’ve been held at gunpoint in the Lebanon, strafed by Israelis in the mountains, and attacked with a knife in Marseilles, I’ve been slammed in jail as an innocent man. I’ve overdosed on heroin multiple times, I’ve been trapped on a troop train in Siberia, I’ve been lost in the murderous desert of Sechura next a puma rape room. I’ve climbed the high lava lakes of Ethiopia, I’ve lingered in the deathliest place on earth (Yungay, Chile), I’ve broken down in Death Valley, I’ve kayaked in Antarctica with the inventor of Antarctic kayaking (who got scared by the conditions), I’ve jumped off the Dolomites with the world champion paraglider, I’ve had near-fatal heatstroke in Namibia, I’ve smoked dope through the thighbone of a springbok with the last San bushmen, and I once scored crack in Alphabet City, NYC, IN THE 80S - but nothing has fucked with my head so much as a woman. They are brutal
    But you've never actually been deported from a country, I think.
    Several times
    It turns out I have nothing on @Leon.
    Have you ever been expelled from a country because your activities were incompatible with your diplomatic status?
    No, but I am persona non grata in Uganda after facilitating Idi Amin’s flight from that country.
    Time for some Ugandan discussions to get your persona non grata revoked.
    I also helped to orchestrate the overthrow of Ceaucescu in 1989.
    My aunt was hanging about in Bucharest about that time. Previously been spending time with friends in Poland and Berlin.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903
    Leon said:



    What I find interesting about the whole discussion of White Privilege is that the Right has a narrative that the Left use it to attack working class white people. But speaking personally as someone who moves in fairly Woke circles at times, I have never seen it used in that way. Never.
    I've seen it used to describe situations like the following: being able to engage with the police and assume that the police will believe them and not assume they are a criminal; being able to get into a few scrapes as a kid and get away without a criminal record; knowing that the press won't always try to dig up dirt on you if you ever make it as a footballer or something; knowing that the Home Office won't try to arbitrarily deport you; not constantly wondering whether you are being judged on the basis of your skin colour whenever you are slighted in some way; being able to express opinions on social media without receiving torrents of abuse.
    The idea that it's been dreamt up to minimise the problems that come with class discrimination and economic inequality is just plain wrong. So then you have to wonder why the Right is making out that it is. It's really not hard to figure out.

    Really good, perceptive post.
    Bollocks. White Privilege is ABSOLUTELY used to silence white working class people - in America and the UK
    Such a battler for the white working class.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:



    What I find interesting about the whole discussion of White Privilege is that the Right has a narrative that the Left use it to attack working class white people. But speaking personally as someone who moves in fairly Woke circles at times, I have never seen it used in that way. Never.
    I've seen it used to describe situations like the following: being able to engage with the police and assume that the police will believe them and not assume they are a criminal; being able to get into a few scrapes as a kid and get away without a criminal record; knowing that the press won't always try to dig up dirt on you if you ever make it as a footballer or something; knowing that the Home Office won't try to arbitrarily deport you; not constantly wondering whether you are being judged on the basis of your skin colour whenever you are slighted in some way; being able to express opinions on social media without receiving torrents of abuse.
    The idea that it's been dreamt up to minimise the problems that come with class discrimination and economic inequality is just plain wrong. So then you have to wonder why the Right is making out that it is. It's really not hard to figure out.

    Really good, perceptive post.
    Bollocks. White Privilege is ABSOLUTELY used to silence white working class people - in America and the UK
    Such a battler for the white working class.
    You abandoned them - your own people - and it roils you, emotionally. Topping is right
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903
    The Scotland game should get very lively in the 2nd half. The draw puts them both out so it's going to be jumpers for goalposts.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited June 2021

    Charles said:

    FPT

    O/T - Can someone explain to me why discussions of white privilege which really only started in the UK in the last few years is the reason why white working class children have had poor educational outcomes for decades?

    Am I missing something major or are people talking shite?

    The phrase "white privilege" is newish.

    The attitude of aggressive disparagement towards the working class is not. As is the recognition that this disparagement is not applied to the same behaviours when evinced by members of protected minority groups.

    I suggest you try this book by a noted right wing, reactionary extremist (Owen Jones) - https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=9781781683989
    Owen Jones always talks shite.

    If you look at the stats you can tell roughly where most people will end up in an educational outcome by their class and the occupation of their parents, which is why you see so many black and other non white children at the bottom of the education league tables.

    My life outcome was largely determined by the fact my father was a doctor from Dore, if my father had been a bus driver from Darnall I know my life outcomes would be so much different for the worse.
    My Dad left school at 17 and worked his way around the world doing odd jobs…
    Your father was an amazing person with such a drive.

    The philanthropic work he did says so much about him.
    Thank you. I try to live up to his standards.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Fancy Scotland to edge this. Passion and hunger will see them through
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,690
    I see England is returning to the "bore the opponents to death" strategy that worked so well against Scotland.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Leon said:

    Fancy Scotland to edge this. Passion and hunger will see them through

    Past form would suggest otherwise but at least they've now shown they're capable of scoring, so they're in with a shout.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    rcs1000 said:

    I see England is returning to the "bore the opponents to death" strategy that worked so well against Scotland.

    It doesn't help that neither side particularly wants to win
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT

    O/T - Can someone explain to me why discussions of white privilege which really only started in the UK in the last few years is the reason why white working class children have had poor educational outcomes for decades?

    Am I missing something major or are people talking shite?

    What the report is saying, is that class rather than race is the better determinant of educational outcomes (as you’d know, from experience), and that modern US-imported Crititcal Race Theory is only throwing fuel on that fire.
    My version of the report doesn't mention critical race theory at all in the body of the report. I can't think of a serious educationalist in the UK who doesn't think that socio-economic class trumps race as the main determinant of educational outcomes in the UK.
    We agree on your main point. The critical race theory, is the concept of “white privilege” which is mentioned in the report. They’re telling WWC kids that they are the “oppressors” who need to atone for the sins of their ancestors.

    We desparately need to find a way to improve the educational outcomes, of those kids whose parents don’t care. Aside from picking out the occasional autistic or gifted kid in “care” and sending them to board at public school (which has been done a few times), I’m as lost as anyone else on this subject.
    Yes, we don't disagree on the main point.

    In answer to your question, and others on here, the answer lies in schools. There's not a lot you can do about parents who are uneducated themselves and couldn't care less about the education of their kids. But there is a magic formula - brilliantly-led schools where brilliant teachers imbue all kids with aspiration and motivation, regardless of their social/economic/racial background, and regardless of parental attitude. There are quite a lot of such schools around, where the exam results are astonishingly good despite, not because of, the intake; more than people think. Things are, actually, getting better with the current generation of teachers. That's not really reflected in the SC report.

    And it's in that context that I think the "white privilege" stuff is just a red herring, throwing some red meat to the culture warriors. Excuse fish and meat metaphors.
    No, the “white privilege” stuff is real, and starting to be taught in schools in the UK - but with a US context of race that’s totally inappropriate for a British audience.
    Not seen it myself with either Fox Jr at schools in heavily right on and multicultural Leicester.

    Perhaps such things are only visible from Dubai.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    Any player other than the goalkeeper and that is probably a pen and red card. Funny old game.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,690
    DavidL said:

    Any player other than the goalkeeper and that is probably a pen and red card. Funny old game.

    You mean the whole "using your hands" thing?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I see England is returning to the "bore the opponents to death" strategy that worked so well against Scotland.

    It doesn't help that neither side particularly wants to win
    They are already winning though, so they might as well try to win well. After all, if the Czechs really don't want it then the only way England are now getting the draw is through a deliberate own goal, which might be a tad obvious.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    How George Galloway is described on the George Galloway website.

    "There’s only one George Galloway. Six-term Parliamentarian, freedom fighter, man of the world. Writer, broadcaster, film-maker. Football and boxing enthusiast, movie-goer, box-set binger. Husband, father of five children, Scottish of Irish background, honorary Palestinian, Iraqi, Syrian, Egyptian… Friend of Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Benazir Bhutto, Yasser Arafat, Tariq Aziz. Trembling with indignation at any injustice, anywhere."

    https://www.georgegalloway.com

    "Man of the world". Oh dear.
    He’s telling us about his life alright! Labour wish he’d never been born
    The song's alright but that's as far as it goes. We all know what 'man of the world' means. It means ebullient and intrusive.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:



    What I find interesting about the whole discussion of White Privilege is that the Right has a narrative that the Left use it to attack working class white people. But speaking personally as someone who moves in fairly Woke circles at times, I have never seen it used in that way. Never.
    I've seen it used to describe situations like the following: being able to engage with the police and assume that the police will believe them and not assume they are a criminal; being able to get into a few scrapes as a kid and get away without a criminal record; knowing that the press won't always try to dig up dirt on you if you ever make it as a footballer or something; knowing that the Home Office won't try to arbitrarily deport you; not constantly wondering whether you are being judged on the basis of your skin colour whenever you are slighted in some way; being able to express opinions on social media without receiving torrents of abuse.
    The idea that it's been dreamt up to minimise the problems that come with class discrimination and economic inequality is just plain wrong. So then you have to wonder why the Right is making out that it is. It's really not hard to figure out.

    Really good, perceptive post.
    Bollocks. White Privilege is ABSOLUTELY used to silence white working class people - in America and the UK
    Such a battler for the white working class.
    You abandoned them - your own people - and it roils you, emotionally. Topping is right
    I didn't abandon them. I go back at Christmas.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    From the Beeb.

    Five players have scored for Scotland at a men's European Championships.

    Brian McClair

    Gary McAllister

    Paul McStay

    Ally McCoist

    Callum McGregor

    Can McTominay, McKenna or McGinn get on that list in the next 38 minutes or so?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Any player other than the goalkeeper and that is probably a pen and red card. Funny old game.

    You mean the whole "using your hands" thing?
    More like sliding into your opponent and not getting anywhere near the ball. This is getting very tight.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    I see England is returning to the "bore the opponents to death" strategy that worked so well against Scotland.

    Generally a better tactic after you've scored, rather than before.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT

    O/T - Can someone explain to me why discussions of white privilege which really only started in the UK in the last few years is the reason why white working class children have had poor educational outcomes for decades?

    Am I missing something major or are people talking shite?

    What the report is saying, is that class rather than race is the better determinant of educational outcomes (as you’d know, from experience), and that modern US-imported Crititcal Race Theory is only throwing fuel on that fire.
    My version of the report doesn't mention critical race theory at all in the body of the report. I can't think of a serious educationalist in the UK who doesn't think that socio-economic class trumps race as the main determinant of educational outcomes in the UK.
    We agree on your main point. The critical race theory, is the concept of “white privilege” which is mentioned in the report. They’re telling WWC kids that they are the “oppressors” who need to atone for the sins of their ancestors.

    We desparately need to find a way to improve the educational outcomes, of those kids whose parents don’t care. Aside from picking out the occasional autistic or gifted kid in “care” and sending them to board at public school (which has been done a few times), I’m as lost as anyone else on this subject.
    Yes, we don't disagree on the main point.

    In answer to your question, and others on here, the answer lies in schools. There's not a lot you can do about parents who are uneducated themselves and couldn't care less about the education of their kids. But there is a magic formula - brilliantly-led schools where brilliant teachers imbue all kids with aspiration and motivation, regardless of their social/economic/racial background, and regardless of parental attitude. There are quite a lot of such schools around, where the exam results are astonishingly good despite, not because of, the intake; more than people think. Things are, actually, getting better with the current generation of teachers. That's not really reflected in the SC report.

    And it's in that context that I think the "white privilege" stuff is just a red herring, throwing some red meat to the culture warriors. Excuse fish and meat metaphors.
    No, the “white privilege” stuff is real, and starting to be taught in schools in the UK - but with a US context of race that’s totally inappropriate for a British audience.
    Not seen it myself with either Fox Jr at schools in heavily right on and multicultural Leicester.

    Perhaps such things are only visible from Dubai.
    Or you could just Google

    "Teach pupils about what white privilege is and
    how they can become more aware of it.

    "Use visuals such as the White Supremacy
    Pyramid or Allport Scale of Prejudice in Society to
    help pupils understand how bias, stereotypes
    and prejudice can lead to racist words and
    actions, leading to physical harm and death"

    https://headsup.warwickshire.gov.uk/assets/1/responding_to_racism_warwickshire_version.pdf

    "There is a lot of talk at the moment about ‘white privilege’. Your children will be encountering the term in school, and in mainstream media like BBC Newsround."

    https://www.barnardos.org.uk/blog/white-privilege-guide-for-parents

    http://allianceforlearning.co.uk/our-hubs/race-and-diversity-hub/resources/


    "EYFS teachers 'should get white privilege training'
    Alternative early years guidance says 'conversations about difference' can help children 'develop anti-racist views'"

    https://www.tes.com/news/racism-EYFS-schools-call-early-years-teachers-white-privilege-training

    "How to lead whole-school discussions about racism and whiteness

    "Find out how to develop your understanding of racism and whiteness so you can increase awareness of these issues and encourage productive discussions in your school."

    https://schoolleaders.thekeysupport.com/administration-and-management/ethos-equality/specific-equality-considerations/how-lead-whole-school-discussions-about-racism-and-whiteness/


    Are you just.... a bit dim? Can you not Google? Why do PB lefties have to be spoon-fed the facts, like idiots eating porridge?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    What a chance for Scotland
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,751
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    How George Galloway is described on the George Galloway website.

    "There’s only one George Galloway. Six-term Parliamentarian, freedom fighter, man of the world. Writer, broadcaster, film-maker. Football and boxing enthusiast, movie-goer, box-set binger. Husband, father of five children, Scottish of Irish background, honorary Palestinian, Iraqi, Syrian, Egyptian… Friend of Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Benazir Bhutto, Yasser Arafat, Tariq Aziz. Trembling with indignation at any injustice, anywhere."

    https://www.georgegalloway.com

    "Man of the world". Oh dear.
    He’s telling us about his life alright! Labour wish he’d never been born
    The song's alright but that's as far as it goes. We all know what 'man of the world' means. It means ebullient and intrusive.
    Bringing down the neolib, Zionist world order is like making love to a beautiful woman.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    This is a cracking game now. Both sides HAVE to win
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,368
    Leon said:

    Digging up the salt in the Danakil


    Glad to see they have a supervisor.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Awww my god. Superb goal
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021
    Leon said:

    This is a cracking game now. Both sides HAVE to win

    Yeah.

    We’re in for a decent half hour of football.

    Itv4

    Edit Croatia 2-1!
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Oh dear.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    Big fucking hairy bollocks.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,122
    World class finish.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,751
    Feck.
    I like Modric but he can do one.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Well, it was nice whilst it lasted.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    Class is indeed permanent. Superb goal.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Digging up the salt in the Danakil


    Glad to see they have a supervisor.
    lol

    It's an insane business. They do it all by hand, and they insist on doing it that way. It is one of the hottest places on earth

    They are very friendly people, the Afar - when they are not chopping off your testes to use as a necklace - I got chatting with one of the those guys and he asked where I came from (using impressive English) and I said "Britain"

    He obviously had no concept of "Britain" but he said "is that a cold country?" and I said "Yes" and he sighed and looked intensely wistful and yearning. He WANTED to be cold, probably for the first time in his life
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,518
    Incredible goal from Modric.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557

    Well, it was nice whilst it lasted.

    If you go out then you can console yourself that you went out via two of the best goals in the tournament: that Czech stunner and the Modric meteor
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    How George Galloway is described on the George Galloway website.

    "There’s only one George Galloway. Six-term Parliamentarian, freedom fighter, man of the world. Writer, broadcaster, film-maker. Football and boxing enthusiast, movie-goer, box-set binger. Husband, father of five children, Scottish of Irish background, honorary Palestinian, Iraqi, Syrian, Egyptian… Friend of Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Benazir Bhutto, Yasser Arafat, Tariq Aziz. Trembling with indignation at any injustice, anywhere."

    https://www.georgegalloway.com

    "Man of the world". Oh dear.
    He’s telling us about his life alright! Labour wish he’d never been born
    The song's alright but that's as far as it goes. We all know what 'man of the world' means. It means ebullient and intrusive.
    Bringing down the neolib, Zionist world order is like making love to a beautiful woman.
    ☺☺
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903
    Hey Jude!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    This England side will tamely depart in the next round. They have no energy
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    Come on Scotland, I have Ukraine in.the office sweep
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903
    Scotland scoring twice is a big big ask.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,518
    Leon said:

    This England side will tamely depart in the next round. They have no energy

    Depends, if it's Germany then that's a pretty much guaranteed loss.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,006
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Oblivion


    Are these photos from the planet your aliens are from? What am I looking at?
    You're looking at some photos I took of the ancient salt caravans of the Afar, in northern Ethiopia, in the Danakil Depression. They've been handcvarving salt blocks - in intense heat - and shipping them by donkey and camel, for thousands of years. And stlll they do it

    The scenery is especially dramatic because a salt-storm has kicked up: like a sand storm, but literally made of salt

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/article/130525-salt-ethiopia-mining-extreme-volcano-heat-transportation
    When did you take them?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    Scotland scoring twice is a big big ask.

    In a tournament.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,188
    edited June 2021
    Leon said:

    This England side will tamely depart in the next round. They have no energy

    Indeed.


  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    This England side will tamely depart in the next round. They have no energy

    Depends, if it's Germany then that's a pretty much guaranteed loss.
    They're not going to beat Cristiano Ronaldo either. Wales have much the better chance of getting to the quarter-finals.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    This England side will tamely depart in the next round. They have no energy

    Depends, if it's Germany then that's a pretty much guaranteed loss.
    I'd rather win the group and face Germany at Wembley with 45,000 fans and if we lose we lose than meekly go through as runners up in the group and timidly go out at penalties against who the fudge cares this time in the knock outs.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Oblivion


    Are these photos from the planet your aliens are from? What am I looking at?
    You're looking at some photos I took of the ancient salt caravans of the Afar, in northern Ethiopia, in the Danakil Depression. They've been handcvarving salt blocks - in intense heat - and shipping them by donkey and camel, for thousands of years. And stlll they do it

    The scenery is especially dramatic because a salt-storm has kicked up: like a sand storm, but literally made of salt

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/article/130525-salt-ethiopia-mining-extreme-volcano-heat-transportation
    When did you take them?
    2017
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,320
    Scotland need more players in the box.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,122
    Group F is going to be interesting. I would not be at all surprised if France settle for a draw...and I wouldn't be surprised if the Germans do the same!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,356
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Oblivion


    Are these photos from the planet your aliens are from? What am I looking at?
    You're looking at some photos I took of the ancient salt caravans of the Afar, in northern Ethiopia, in the Danakil Depression. They've been handcvarving salt blocks - in intense heat - and shipping them by donkey and camel, for thousands of years. And stlll they do it

    The scenery is especially dramatic because a salt-storm has kicked up: like a sand storm, but literally made of salt

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/article/130525-salt-ethiopia-mining-extreme-volcano-heat-transportation
    When did you take them?
    2017
    Prospecting for flints?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    This England side will tamely depart in the next round. They have no energy

    Depends, if it's Germany then that's a pretty much guaranteed loss.
    I'd rather win the group and face Germany at Wembley with 45,000 fans and if we lose we lose than meekly go through as runners up in the group and timidly go out at penalties against who the fudge cares this time in the knock outs.
    If we go out in the next round then Southgate must depart. He has zero charisma, he's a boring coach, and he is wasting oodles of talent. Enough
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,690
    I'm trying to understand Kane's role here. Is it to tamely pass the ball back towards the England half whenever he gets the ball?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,518

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    This England side will tamely depart in the next round. They have no energy

    Depends, if it's Germany then that's a pretty much guaranteed loss.
    They're not going to beat Cristiano Ronaldo either. Wales have much the better chance of getting to the quarter-finals.
    Not sure about Portugal, but there's simply no way we beat Germany in a tournament. It's like Spurs in a cup final, you know the result before the match has even started.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,320
    Class may be permanent.
    Except for Vlasic at Everton.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    This England side will tamely depart in the next round. They have no energy

    Depends, if it's Germany then that's a pretty much guaranteed loss.
    I'd rather win the group and face Germany at Wembley with 45,000 fans and if we lose we lose than meekly go through as runners up in the group and timidly go out at penalties against who the fudge cares this time in the knock outs.
    If we go out in the next round then Southgate must depart. He has zero charisma, he's a boring coach, and he is wasting oodles of talent. Enough
    Only one coach has achieved more.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,320
    Game over.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Bye bye Scotland. Again.
This discussion has been closed.