politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tories drop 5 and UKIP up 3 in this week’s Ashcroft nationa
Comments
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Do you watch a lot of BBC then (UK TV channel)Tykejohnno said:
So you watch alot of RT then (Russian tv channel) ;-)surbiton said:Is there any proof that the Russian rebels did it ? Who is providing this proof ?
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Although on a few days a year, significant dates of the battle, it renames itself Stalingrad for the day.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Which was why the Russians themselves renamed Stalingrad to Volgogradkle4 said:
Very handy of him, and a tremendous and brave sacrifice and loss by the Russian people to do that service. I think Stalin still ends up in the negative column overall though.surbiton said:
Are we talking about the man who defeated Nazi Germany until Johnny come lately Yanks joined in at the fag end to carve up Germany and take the Nazi scientists.JohnLilburne said:
More likely to be Stalin-loving Russianssurbiton said:
Hollande should strike back and say "Stop letting Russia us ethe City of London" !Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'
How do we know it was not the Nazi loving Ukranians ?
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Context is everything, and fashion advice from a morris dancer should be taken in a context of caution.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tell that to Morris Dancer, he thought my pink and blue shirt was awfulcorporeal said:
Pink's a lovely colour.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because of the fact that a red ball is hard to see with the floodlights on.corporeal said:
Why not?TheScreamingEagles said:
A day night test?corporeal said:
Start it after lunch, finish around 9pm. Reduced tickets for evening only attendance.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, next test starts Sunday.BobaFett said:
Is that what's happening? You have got to be kidding - the scheduling has got worse and worse in recent times and this is the zenith of the malaise.TheScreamingEagles said:Apologies for the language
But what fecking Bell end thought starting a test match in England on a SUNDAY was a good idea?
That the Test won't include a Friday or a Saturday is a disgrace - yet more evidence that the schedulers have completely lost touch with the paying public.
Or maybe they are just being kind to us.
I'll take 1% commission and Robert's an 18th century prime minister who might be related to your mother.
Nooooo0 -
Maybe so and time will tell but *currently* that's an unspecified maybe whereas the French boats are very specific with a very specific price tag so *currently* in terms of leading from the front i'd say his comments were very much in the wind-up zone.Richard_Nabavi said:
He's not protecting the City, is he? This is what Osborne said:MrJones said:
You don't think Cameron demanding sacrifices from France and Germany while protecting the City might wind them up a tad?Richard_Nabavi said:I see that the usual suspects, driven by irrational dislike of Cameron, are coming out in support of Putin.
To which I can only say: Blimey.
(not that i mind)
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07/21/uk-ukraine-crisis-sanctions-britain-idUKKBN0FQ0JU20140721
(not that i mind)
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15-0Richard_Nabavi said:
Not having a taxpayer-funded, guaranteed, inflation-proofed pension like many Labour supporters, I have to try to protect things as much as I can. Even so, I have already been shafted by Brown's pension raid, and by the EU with its insane directive forbidding insurance companies from taking actuarial data into account, and by the appalling annuity rates now on offer - none of which blows hits Harriet Harman, or Ed Miliband, or indeed any of those teachers, policemen or civil servants who have been striking because they think they are hard done by.surbiton said:There speaks a Tory. Moral humbug, then, looking after number 1 !
So I make no apology for what I hope is sensible planning, given that I take 100% of the risk - unlike typical Labour supporters, who take 0%.0 -
MrJones said:
You don't think Cameron demanding sacrifices from France and Germany while protecting the City might wind them up a tad?Richard_Nabavi said:I see that the usual suspects, driven by irrational dislike of Cameron, are coming out in support of Putin.
To which I can only say: Blimey.
(not that i mind)
Kippers hate the EU so much they would rather get into bed with an adversary of the EU such as Putin.
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No,I watch alot of RT Comrade ;-)Sunil_Prasannan said:Tykejohnno said:
So you watch alot of RT then (Russian tv channel) ;-)surbiton said:Is there any proof that the Russian rebels did it ? Who is providing this proof ?
Do you watch a lot of BBC then (UK TV channel)Tykejohnno said:
So you watch alot of RT then (Russian tv channel) ;-)surbiton said:Is there any proof that the Russian rebels did it ? Who is providing this proof ?
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My methodology adjusts for what i consider a realistic amount of swingback. 319 days when i first started now down to 288 days in tomorrows BJESUSIshmael_X said:
Why would we take your projection seriously when you tell us literally every day that you don't understand how projections work? Baxtering yougov doesn't really cut it, except as a way of discrediting your own methodology.bigjohnowls said:
315/271 = lead of 44 down to 307/282? = lead of 25 thats volatile! 12 more weeks of that trend and EICIPM!!JackW said:
I can't account for your own pale imitation but I'm unaware of any significant volatility over the last six weeks for my ARSE.bigjohnowls said:
OK I am obviously new to this with my BJESUS but the volaitlity of your Arse is much more over last 6 weeks than my BJESUS. Why?JackW said:@bigjohnowls
Clearly so.
The moves have been at the margin. A notable feature of my ARSE projection has been the stability of the numbers within a narrow range. However this shouldn't be too much of a surprise as the factors within the projection have so far been correctly forecast.
The range for Labour has been 271-282 and the Conservatives 307-315.
BJESUS LAB 329-331 range Tories 263-268 range
We will see how far adrift I am come May 2015.
I could be wrong we will see what is your projection?
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There may never be proof. What will you believe then? So far most of the circumstantial evidence seems to point towards Moscow's thugs in "Novorossiya".surbiton said:
Actually, I don't. Where is the proof ? I hope it is better than Man did not land on the Moon.Tykejohnno said:
So you watch alot of RT then (Russian tv channel) ;-)surbiton said:Is there any proof that the Russian rebels did it ? Who is providing this proof ?
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Maybe so but that still doesn't change the fact that Cameron is telling the French to do something the UK isn't doing (at least not yet).perdix said:MrJones said:
You don't think Cameron demanding sacrifices from France and Germany while protecting the City might wind them up a tad?Richard_Nabavi said:I see that the usual suspects, driven by irrational dislike of Cameron, are coming out in support of Putin.
To which I can only say: Blimey.
(not that i mind)
Kippers hate the EU so much they would rather get into bed with an adversary of the EU such as Putin.
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I'm with Sir Thomas Beechamcorporeal said:
Context is everything, and fashion advice from a morris dancer should be taken in a context of caution.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tell that to Morris Dancer, he thought my pink and blue shirt was awfulcorporeal said:
Pink's a lovely colour.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because of the fact that a red ball is hard to see with the floodlights on.corporeal said:
Why not?TheScreamingEagles said:
A day night test?corporeal said:
Start it after lunch, finish around 9pm. Reduced tickets for evening only attendance.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, next test starts Sunday.BobaFett said:
Is that what's happening? You have got to be kidding - the scheduling has got worse and worse in recent times and this is the zenith of the malaise.TheScreamingEagles said:Apologies for the language
But what fecking Bell end thought starting a test match in England on a SUNDAY was a good idea?
That the Test won't include a Friday or a Saturday is a disgrace - yet more evidence that the schedulers have completely lost touch with the paying public.
Or maybe they are just being kind to us.
I'll take 1% commission and Robert's an 18th century prime minister who might be related to your mother.
Nooooo0 -
The Right Sector seem to.JohnLilburne said:
The Ukrainians love Hitler?bigjohnowls said:
They love Stalin?JohnLilburne said:
More likely to be Stalin-loving Russianssurbiton said:
Hollande should strike back and say "Stop letting Russia us ethe City of London" !Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'
How do we know it was not the Nazi loving Ukranians ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector
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helicopter carriers worth a billion or so eachSunil_Prasannan said:
Which warships are these???Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'0 -
Getting a consensus from all the European leaders on where and when to apply what to whom, is not going to be quick.
But it lets them grandstand to their electorate
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I assume getting a few minutes with the US President really does help LOTO in some way, otherwise the sheer desperation given off when they try it (or even when they are PM) is pretty wasted. It feels like a prospective regional governor or ambassador seeking approval from the Emperor.
And Ed and those before him should know if you want to be ambassador at least, or similar level, they'll listen to you more if you raise a few million for the USA party of choice. Instead he just has to rely on being the next likely PM to be listened to, and that won't take you far at the White House.0 -
...?TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm with Sir Thomas Beechamcorporeal said:
Context is everything, and fashion advice from a morris dancer should be taken in a context of caution.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tell that to Morris Dancer, he thought my pink and blue shirt was awfulcorporeal said:
Pink's a lovely colour.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because of the fact that a red ball is hard to see with the floodlights on.corporeal said:
Why not?TheScreamingEagles said:
A day night test?corporeal said:
Start it after lunch, finish around 9pm. Reduced tickets for evening only attendance.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, next test starts Sunday.BobaFett said:
Is that what's happening? You have got to be kidding - the scheduling has got worse and worse in recent times and this is the zenith of the malaise.TheScreamingEagles said:Apologies for the language
But what fecking Bell end thought starting a test match in England on a SUNDAY was a good idea?
That the Test won't include a Friday or a Saturday is a disgrace - yet more evidence that the schedulers have completely lost touch with the paying public.
Or maybe they are just being kind to us.
I'll take 1% commission and Robert's an 18th century prime minister who might be related to your mother.
Nooooo
As a side note, what's the over/under on how long before 20/20 becomes the primary form of the game?0 -
One thing the Ukranian lovers cannot get away from is the make up of the Ukranian government. What kind of coalition would you call it, if in Britain there were 5 BNP Ministers in it ?
This cannot be glossed over.0 -
Surbiton - Your comment was unacceptable.
Calling someone a piece of shit again or a similar comment in the future will see your right to instantly publish revoked.-1 -
You can find neo-Nazi right and neo-Soviet left in all countries, probably in Russia and Ukraine about equally. If either of Russia and Ukriane were to be said to have a general fairly ideology-free but crypto-fascist state I would say it was Putin's Russia.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Right Sector seem to.JohnLilburne said:
The Ukrainians love Hitler?bigjohnowls said:
They love Stalin?JohnLilburne said:
More likely to be Stalin-loving Russianssurbiton said:
Hollande should strike back and say "Stop letting Russia us ethe City of London" !Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'
How do we know it was not the Nazi loving Ukranians ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector
0 -
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Our p1 tomorrow: Abramovich and other London oligarchs facing bank account and asset freezes next (ht @Stig Abell) pic.twitter.com/KysxOC8fwR
Any Chelsea fans on here ;-)0 -
When Sir Thomas Beecham said "in this life try everything once, except incest and morris dancing" he may have inadvertently hit on somethingcorporeal said:
...?TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm with Sir Thomas Beechamcorporeal said:
Context is everything, and fashion advice from a morris dancer should be taken in a context of caution.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tell that to Morris Dancer, he thought my pink and blue shirt was awfulcorporeal said:
Pink's a lovely colour.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because of the fact that a red ball is hard to see with the floodlights on.corporeal said:
Why not?TheScreamingEagles said:
A day night test?corporeal said:
Start it after lunch, finish around 9pm. Reduced tickets for evening only attendance.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah, next test starts Sunday.BobaFett said:
Is that what's happening? You have got to be kidding - the scheduling has got worse and worse in recent times and this is the zenith of the malaise.TheScreamingEagles said:Apologies for the language
But what fecking Bell end thought starting a test match in England on a SUNDAY was a good idea?
That the Test won't include a Friday or a Saturday is a disgrace - yet more evidence that the schedulers have completely lost touch with the paying public.
Or maybe they are just being kind to us.
I'll take 1% commission and Robert's an 18th century prime minister who might be related to your mother.
Nooooo
As a side note, what's the over/under on how long before 20/20 becomes the primary form of the game?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/emmahartley/8218867/Morris_dancing_is_less_sexy_than_incest/0 -
By the way it's Pooteen or Pootyeen (actually somewhere between the two) rather than Pewtin.0
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The history of the Second World War in Ukraine is complex and exceedingly unsavoury. At various times, in various areas, there was support for both the invading Germans and the Soviets, and there was (as in many other areas of eastern Europe) a perturbing degree of local involvement in the most horrendous atrocities:
http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Nazi_Empire_Building_and_the_Holocaust_i.html?id=UwDmUJWdcJkC
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I suddenly might change and support the government.Tykejohnno said:
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Our p1 tomorrow: Abramovich and other London oligarchs facing bank account and asset freezes next (ht @Stig Abell) pic.twitter.com/KysxOC8fwR
Any Chelsea fans on here ;-)0 -
There are 5 Nazi Ministers in the government for heaven's sake. Putin has dictatorial tendencies, yes. But he is no Nazi !!JohnLilburne said:
You can find neo-Nazi right and neo-Soviet left in all countries, probably in Russia and Ukraine about equally. If either of Russia and Ukriane were to be said to have a general fairly ideology-free but crypto-fascist state I would say it was Putin's Russia.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Right Sector seem to.JohnLilburne said:
The Ukrainians love Hitler?bigjohnowls said:
They love Stalin?JohnLilburne said:
More likely to be Stalin-loving Russianssurbiton said:
Hollande should strike back and say "Stop letting Russia us ethe City of London" !Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'
How do we know it was not the Nazi loving Ukranians ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector0 -
I don't think it is relevant when they are facing a neo-colonialist neighbour. Putin doesn't get to nick bits of another country because we don't like the makeup of its government.surbiton said:One thing the Ukranian lovers cannot get away from is the make up of the Ukranian government. What kind of coalition would you call it, if in Britain there were 5 BNP Ministers in it ?
This cannot be glossed over.
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Well in terms of invading the Ukraine...surbiton said:
There are 5 Nazi Ministers in the government for heaven's sake. Putin has dictatorial tendencies, yes. But he is no Nazi !!JohnLilburne said:
You can find neo-Nazi right and neo-Soviet left in all countries, probably in Russia and Ukraine about equally. If either of Russia and Ukriane were to be said to have a general fairly ideology-free but crypto-fascist state I would say it was Putin's Russia.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Right Sector seem to.JohnLilburne said:
The Ukrainians love Hitler?bigjohnowls said:
They love Stalin?JohnLilburne said:
More likely to be Stalin-loving Russianssurbiton said:
Hollande should strike back and say "Stop letting Russia us ethe City of London" !Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'
How do we know it was not the Nazi loving Ukranians ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector
0 -
0
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Really? I thought the Russians were capable of building their own helicopter carriers (eg. Moskva and Leningrad during the Cold War).MrJones said:
helicopter carriers worth a billion or so eachSunil_Prasannan said:
Which warships are these???Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'0 -
Isn't that first one a Canadian dish of chips, gravy and cheese?JohnLilburne said:By the way it's Pooteen or Pootyeen (actually somewhere between the two) rather than Pewtin.
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surbiton said:
There speaks a Tory. Moral humbug, then, looking after number 1 !
What's going on over there, is it National Partisan Stereotyping Day or something?Richard_Nabavi said:So I make no apology for what I hope is sensible planning, given that I take 100% of the risk - unlike typical Labour supporters, who take 0%.
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An invader ? I see. You smart bugger. So, Bush and Blair are also Nazis. Heaven forbid, dare I say, the Israelis...JohnLilburne said:
Well in terms of invading the Ukraine...surbiton said:
There are 5 Nazi Ministers in the government for heaven's sake. Putin has dictatorial tendencies, yes. But he is no Nazi !!JohnLilburne said:
You can find neo-Nazi right and neo-Soviet left in all countries, probably in Russia and Ukraine about equally. If either of Russia and Ukriane were to be said to have a general fairly ideology-free but crypto-fascist state I would say it was Putin's Russia.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Right Sector seem to.JohnLilburne said:
The Ukrainians love Hitler?bigjohnowls said:
They love Stalin?JohnLilburne said:
More likely to be Stalin-loving Russianssurbiton said:
Hollande should strike back and say "Stop letting Russia us ethe City of London" !Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'
How do we know it was not the Nazi loving Ukranians ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector0 -
Will this be the peak of Mayfair property prices ?Tykejohnno said:
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Our p1 tomorrow: Abramovich and other London oligarchs facing bank account and asset freezes next (ht @Stig Abell) pic.twitter.com/KysxOC8fwR
Any Chelsea fans on here ;-)0 -
Indeed. Especially as its makeup in no small part is affected by his actions, which whatever the support for his takeover in Crimea, which of course he lied about the details all the way through, have crossed the line, literally, many times, and which forms part of a recognizable pattern of his.JohnLilburne said:
I don't think it is relevant when they are facing a neo-colonialist neighbour. Putin doesn't get to nick bits of another country because we don't like the makeup of its government.surbiton said:One thing the Ukranian lovers cannot get away from is the make up of the Ukranian government. What kind of coalition would you call it, if in Britain there were 5 BNP Ministers in it ?
This cannot be glossed over.
Night all.
0 -
@edmundintokyo
Every day is partisan day in our happy world :-)0 -
Yes, me.Tykejohnno said:
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Our p1 tomorrow: Abramovich and other London oligarchs facing bank account and asset freezes next (ht @Stig Abell) pic.twitter.com/KysxOC8fwR
Any Chelsea fans on here ;-)
I've been warning people on a Chelsea site that this could be an issue, they seem to think that Abramovich is too smart and will have spread his assets around the world. They don't seem to realise that you cannot hide Chelsea FC!
Not sure how the ownership of the club is made up but Abramovich has around £700m in interest free loans attached to the club which could be an issue.0 -
capable or not they ordered two (IIRC) from the French for some reasonSunil_Prasannan said:
Really? I thought the Russians were capable of building their own helicopter carriers (eg. Moskva and Leningrad during the Cold War).MrJones said:
helicopter carriers worth a billion or so eachSunil_Prasannan said:
Which warships are these???Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'0 -
In my case it is sensible planning day, I hope, in response not to the shooting-down of the airliner, but to the possibility of sanctions.edmundintokyo said:surbiton said:There speaks a Tory. Moral humbug, then, looking after number 1 !
What's going on over there, is it National Partisan Stereotyping Day or something?Richard_Nabavi said:So I make no apology for what I hope is sensible planning, given that I take 100% of the risk - unlike typical Labour supporters, who take 0%.
I might be wrong, of course. DYOR.
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The way things are at the moment I have as much confidence in projections as to whether it will rain on 7 May 2015 as in election outcome predictions. I am just suggesting that it would add gravitas and credibility to BJESUS if you followed Jack's lead and treated us to weekly bulletins rather than the daily Baxtering nonsense.bigjohnowls said:
My methodology adjusts for what i consider a realistic amount of swingback. 319 days when i first started now down to 288 days in tomorrows BJESUSIshmael_X said:
Why would we take your projection seriously when you tell us literally every day that you don't understand how projections work? Baxtering yougov doesn't really cut it, except as a way of discrediting your own methodology.bigjohnowls said:
315/271 = lead of 44 down to 307/282? = lead of 25 thats volatile! 12 more weeks of that trend and EICIPM!!JackW said:
I can't account for your own pale imitation but I'm unaware of any significant volatility over the last six weeks for my ARSE.bigjohnowls said:
OK I am obviously new to this with my BJESUS but the volaitlity of your Arse is much more over last 6 weeks than my BJESUS. Why?JackW said:@bigjohnowls
Clearly so.
The moves have been at the margin. A notable feature of my ARSE projection has been the stability of the numbers within a narrow range. However this shouldn't be too much of a surprise as the factors within the projection have so far been correctly forecast.
The range for Labour has been 271-282 and the Conservatives 307-315.
BJESUS LAB 329-331 range Tories 263-268 range
We will see how far adrift I am come May 2015.
I could be wrong we will see what is your projection?0 -
Why not nationalise the Club and give it to the Supporters ? It would be a boost to the local economy. And a hundred years of litigation... Also, a boost to the economy. Win - win , I say.nigel4england said:
Yes, me.Tykejohnno said:
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Our p1 tomorrow: Abramovich and other London oligarchs facing bank account and asset freezes next (ht @Stig Abell) pic.twitter.com/KysxOC8fwR
Any Chelsea fans on here ;-)
I've been warning people on a Chelsea site that this could be an issue, they seem to think that Abramovich is too smart and will have spread his assets around the world. They don't seem to realise that you cannot hide Chelsea FC!
Not sure how the ownership of the club is made up but Abramovich has around £700m in interest free loans attached to the club which could be an issue.0 -
I don't think Svoboda are Nazis. You will probably trot out something simplistic about Bandera, but then when you are caught between Stalin and Hitler there is no right and wrong. Stalin had just killed 4 million Ukrainians.surbiton said:
There are 5 Nazi Ministers in the government for heaven's sake. Putin has dictatorial tendencies, yes. But he is no Nazi !!JohnLilburne said:
You can find neo-Nazi right and neo-Soviet left in all countries, probably in Russia and Ukraine about equally. If either of Russia and Ukriane were to be said to have a general fairly ideology-free but crypto-fascist state I would say it was Putin's Russia.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Right Sector seem to.JohnLilburne said:
The Ukrainians love Hitler?bigjohnowls said:
They love Stalin?JohnLilburne said:
More likely to be Stalin-loving Russianssurbiton said:
Hollande should strike back and say "Stop letting Russia us ethe City of London" !Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'
How do we know it was not the Nazi loving Ukranians ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector
I repeat my assertion: this is a straw man. The makeup of the Ukrainian government has no bearing on whether Putin should foment armed rebellion on Ukrainian soil and nick bits of their territory, nor shoot down foreign airliners by proxy.0 -
Black night for tired squirrels.
T-Minus 6937 hours....tic toc0 -
You could move the IP offshore. It may well be a tax-efficient thing to do in the first place...nigel4england said:I've been warning people on a Chelsea site that this could be an issue, they seem to think that Abramovich is too smart and will have spread his assets around the world. They don't seem to realise that you cannot hide Chelsea FC!
0 -
The pitch and name is owned by Chelsea Pitch Owners, set up by Ken Bates to keep the developers at bay back in the 80's. One reason the club has not been able to move to a new stadium is the refusal of the CPO to sell the shares to the club.surbiton said:
Why not nationalise the Club and give it to the Supporters. I would be a boost to the local economy. And a hundred years of litigation... Also, a boost to the economy. Win - win , I say.nigel4england said:
Yes, me.Tykejohnno said:
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Our p1 tomorrow: Abramovich and other London oligarchs facing bank account and asset freezes next (ht @Stig Abell) pic.twitter.com/KysxOC8fwR
Any Chelsea fans on here ;-)
I've been warning people on a Chelsea site that this could be an issue, they seem to think that Abramovich is too smart and will have spread his assets around the world. They don't seem to realise that you cannot hide Chelsea FC!
Not sure how the ownership of the club is made up but Abramovich has around £700m in interest free loans attached to the club which could be an issue.0 -
So you disagree with invading Iraq and Gaza, but for some reason the Ukraine is fair game?surbiton said:
An invader ? I see. You smart bugger. So, Bush and Blair are also Nazis. Heaven forbid, dare I say, the Israelis...JohnLilburne said:
Well in terms of invading the Ukraine...surbiton said:
There are 5 Nazi Ministers in the government for heaven's sake. Putin has dictatorial tendencies, yes. But he is no Nazi !!JohnLilburne said:
You can find neo-Nazi right and neo-Soviet left in all countries, probably in Russia and Ukraine about equally. If either of Russia and Ukriane were to be said to have a general fairly ideology-free but crypto-fascist state I would say it was Putin's Russia.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Right Sector seem to.JohnLilburne said:
The Ukrainians love Hitler?bigjohnowls said:
They love Stalin?JohnLilburne said:
More likely to be Stalin-loving Russianssurbiton said:
Hollande should strike back and say "Stop letting Russia us ethe City of London" !Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'
How do we know it was not the Nazi loving Ukranians ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector
0 -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)JohnLilburne said:
I don't think Svoboda are Nazis. You will probably trot out something simplistic about Bandera, but then when you are caught between Stalin and Hitler there is no right and wrong. Stalin had just killed 4 million Ukrainians.surbiton said:
There are 5 Nazi Ministers in the government for heaven's sake. Putin has dictatorial tendencies, yes. But he is no Nazi !!JohnLilburne said:
You can find neo-Nazi right and neo-Soviet left in all countries, probably in Russia and Ukraine about equally. If either of Russia and Ukriane were to be said to have a general fairly ideology-free but crypto-fascist state I would say it was Putin's Russia.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Right Sector seem to.JohnLilburne said:
The Ukrainians love Hitler?bigjohnowls said:
They love Stalin?JohnLilburne said:
More likely to be Stalin-loving Russianssurbiton said:
Hollande should strike back and say "Stop letting Russia us ethe City of London" !Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'
How do we know it was not the Nazi loving Ukranians ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector
I repeat my assertion: this is a straw man. The makeup of the Ukrainian government has no bearing on whether Putin should foment armed rebellion on Ukrainian soil and nick bits of their territory, nor shoot down foreign airliners by proxy.
Just read the paragraph on History and have a close look at the symbol.0 -
I seem to have found it:MrJones said:
capable or not they ordered two (IIRC) from the French for some reasonSunil_Prasannan said:
Really? I thought the Russians were capable of building their own helicopter carriers (eg. Moskva and Leningrad during the Cold War).MrJones said:
helicopter carriers worth a billion or so eachSunil_Prasannan said:
Which warships are these???Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'
On December 24, 2010, Russian President Dmitriy Medvedev announced France as the winner of a tender to build four Mistral-class ships for Russia.[34] As the MISTRAL project continues it has been plagued with controversy with arguments that the ships are not required, that Russian ship builders could have built a similar vessel and that they cost too much. In January 2013, Russian Deputy Prime Minister for the Defence Industry Dmitriy Rogozin has been critical about the purchase of French helicopter carriers Mistral. The contracts signed in 2011 had been also criticized by first deputy head of the Military-Industrial Commission Ivan Kharchenko, who blamed former Defence Minister Anatoliy Serdyukov. "It is very strange that we, given our climate, are purchasing ships to transport troops that do not work at temperatures below seven degrees," Rogozin said at a general meeting of the Academy of Military Sciences on Saturday 26 January 2013.[35]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Russian_Navy0 -
maybe they ordered them as a diplomatic bargaining chip?Sunil_Prasannan said:
I seem to have found it:MrJones said:
capable or not they ordered two (IIRC) from the French for some reasonSunil_Prasannan said:
Really? I thought the Russians were capable of building their own helicopter carriers (eg. Moskva and Leningrad during the Cold War).MrJones said:
helicopter carriers worth a billion or so eachSunil_Prasannan said:
Which warships are these???Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'
On December 24, 2010, Russian President Dmitriy Medvedev announced France as the winner of a tender to build four Mistral-class ships for Russia.[34] As the MISTRAL project continues it has been plagued with controversy with arguments that the ships are not required, that Russian ship builders could have built a similar vessel and that they cost too much. In January 2013, Russian Deputy Prime Minister for the Defence Industry Dmitriy Rogozin has been critical about the purchase of French helicopter carriers Mistral. The contracts signed in 2011 had been also criticized by first deputy head of the Military-Industrial Commission Ivan Kharchenko, who blamed former Defence Minister Anatoliy Serdyukov. "It is very strange that we, given our climate, are purchasing ships to transport troops that do not work at temperatures below seven degrees," Rogozin said at a general meeting of the Academy of Military Sciences on Saturday 26 January 2013.[35]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Russian_Navy
0 -
This is a betting site, Surbiton !surbiton said:
As I posted earlier, I've sold out completely from the BP and Shell holdings I have in my retirement fundRichard_Nabavi said:
They don't need to buy (or, to be more precise, trade) oil and metals.surbiton said:Really ? Europe buys Russian gas which they need to. Not because of their love for Russia.
This is going to get very nasty, and there will be collateral economic damage. The Dutch in particular are key to this, and the UK. The Germans will probably try to drag their feet, but will bend under pressure from the rest of the EU and from the US.
As I posted earlier, I've sold out completely from the BP and Shell holdings I have in my retirement fund.
There speaks a Tory. Moral humbug, then, looking after number 1 !0 -
No. I don't think it is fair game. Crimea was "given" to Ukraine in 1954 by Khruschev who himself was from the Donbass. Crimea was always Russian, they speak Russian and are Russian. Just because one Russian dictator gave it to another Soviet state does not make it correct.JohnLilburne said:
So you disagree with invading Iraq and Gaza, but for some reason the Ukraine is fair game?surbiton said:
An invader ? I see. You smart bugger. So, Bush and Blair are also Nazis. Heaven forbid, dare I say, the Israelis...JohnLilburne said:
Well in terms of invading the Ukraine...surbiton said:
There are 5 Nazi Ministers in the government for heaven's sake. Putin has dictatorial tendencies, yes. But he is no Nazi !!JohnLilburne said:
You can find neo-Nazi right and neo-Soviet left in all countries, probably in Russia and Ukraine about equally. If either of Russia and Ukriane were to be said to have a general fairly ideology-free but crypto-fascist state I would say it was Putin's Russia.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Right Sector seem to.JohnLilburne said:
The Ukrainians love Hitler?bigjohnowls said:
They love Stalin?JohnLilburne said:
More likely to be Stalin-loving Russianssurbiton said:
Hollande should strike back and say "Stop letting Russia us ethe City of London" !Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'
How do we know it was not the Nazi loving Ukranians ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector
Khruschev wanted to increase the Russian speaking population of Ukraine, part of the great plan to annex Ukraine [ and other Soviet Republics ] gradually.
Surprisingly, for a Tory, you seem to be supporting Khruschev.
What about the right of self determination of the Russian speaking people of the Crimea - about 75%.0 -
Good old "Penny in the pound" Bates...nigel4england said:
The pitch and name is owned by Chelsea Pitch Owners, set up by Ken Bates to keep the developers at bay back in the 80's. One reason the club has not been able to move to a new stadium is the refusal of the CPO to sell the shares to the club.surbiton said:
Why not nationalise the Club and give it to the Supporters. I would be a boost to the local economy. And a hundred years of litigation... Also, a boost to the economy. Win - win , I say.nigel4england said:
Yes, me.Tykejohnno said:
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Our p1 tomorrow: Abramovich and other London oligarchs facing bank account and asset freezes next (ht @Stig Abell) pic.twitter.com/KysxOC8fwR
Any Chelsea fans on here ;-)
I've been warning people on a Chelsea site that this could be an issue, they seem to think that Abramovich is too smart and will have spread his assets around the world. They don't seem to realise that you cannot hide Chelsea FC!
Not sure how the ownership of the club is made up but Abramovich has around £700m in interest free loans attached to the club which could be an issue.0 -
@RichardNabavi
The history of the Second World War in Ukraine is complex and exceedingly unsavoury. At various times, in various areas, there was support for both the invading Germans and the Soviets, and there was (as in many other areas of eastern Europe) a perturbing degree of local involvement in the most horrendous atrocities:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia0 -
It seems to have had a dodgy past. But then so do many left-ish parties in or close to government in Eastern Europe.surbiton said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)JohnLilburne said:
I don't think Svoboda are Nazis. You will probably trot out something simplistic about Bandera, but then when you are caught between Stalin and Hitler there is no right and wrong. Stalin had just killed 4 million Ukrainians.surbiton said:
There are 5 Nazi Ministers in the government for heaven's sake. Putin has dictatorial tendencies, yes. But he is no Nazi !!JohnLilburne said:
You can find neo-Nazi right and neo-Soviet left in all countries, probably in Russia and Ukraine about equally. If either of Russia and Ukriane were to be said to have a general fairly ideology-free but crypto-fascist state I would say it was Putin's Russia.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Right Sector seem to.JohnLilburne said:
The Ukrainians love Hitler?bigjohnowls said:
They love Stalin?JohnLilburne said:
More likely to be Stalin-loving Russianssurbiton said:
Hollande should strike back and say "Stop letting Russia us ethe City of London" !Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'
How do we know it was not the Nazi loving Ukranians ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector
I repeat my assertion: this is a straw man. The makeup of the Ukrainian government has no bearing on whether Putin should foment armed rebellion on Ukrainian soil and nick bits of their territory, nor shoot down foreign airliners by proxy.
Just read the paragraph on History and have a close look at the symbol.
In any case: let's judge the Ukrainian government on what it does.
And maybe we need to swap Wikipedia pages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
Although I have just learned a new word: Moskaly "a derogatory term for either Russians or pan-Russian nationalists" which seems to be a good way to describe you and the other Putinistas on here.
0 -
Swingback is taking place - to Labour !compouter2 said:Black night for tired squirrels.
T-Minus 6937 hours....tic toc0 -
Possible, as the article says, Russian yards could have built the ships more cheaply.MrJones said:
maybe they ordered them as a diplomatic bargaining chip?Sunil_Prasannan said:
I seem to have found it:MrJones said:
capable or not they ordered two (IIRC) from the French for some reasonSunil_Prasannan said:
Really? I thought the Russians were capable of building their own helicopter carriers (eg. Moskva and Leningrad during the Cold War).MrJones said:
helicopter carriers worth a billion or so eachSunil_Prasannan said:
Which warships are these???Tykejohnno said:
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Tomorrow's @TheTimes front page: 'Stop selling warships to Russia, PM tells France'
On December 24, 2010, Russian President Dmitriy Medvedev announced France as the winner of a tender to build four Mistral-class ships for Russia.[34] As the MISTRAL project continues it has been plagued with controversy with arguments that the ships are not required, that Russian ship builders could have built a similar vessel and that they cost too much. In January 2013, Russian Deputy Prime Minister for the Defence Industry Dmitriy Rogozin has been critical about the purchase of French helicopter carriers Mistral. The contracts signed in 2011 had been also criticized by first deputy head of the Military-Industrial Commission Ivan Kharchenko, who blamed former Defence Minister Anatoliy Serdyukov. "It is very strange that we, given our climate, are purchasing ships to transport troops that do not work at temperatures below seven degrees," Rogozin said at a general meeting of the Academy of Military Sciences on Saturday 26 January 2013.[35]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_the_Russian_Navy0 -
Nothing at all is happening, as Bobajobb and a few others have pointed out...surbiton said:
Swingback is taking place - to Labour !compouter2 said:Black night for tired squirrels.
T-Minus 6937 hours....tic toc
Lab lead of 4 over Con.
Ashcroft's polls are volatile individually because of a small effective sample size - I'd venture to guess this one is on the low end of the Con Margin of Error (As others of his have been on the high side)0 -
Dr Stephen Fisher's next model projection will show Ed Miliband PM I'd venture to guess.0
-
So we now have swingback, when do we get the Cameroonian crossover?surbiton said:
Swingback is taking place - to Labour !compouter2 said:Black night for tired squirrels.
T-Minus 6937 hours....tic toc0 -
Wrong, the Crimea was always Tatar speaking and it was Russian colonialism that drove them out. Stalin deported most of the remaining ones to Siberia or somewhere. I understand they had been returning, had their language protected as a minority language, and are now trying to get out as they don't trust Putin's thugs.surbiton said:
No. I don't think it is fair game. Crimea was "given" to Ukraine in 1954 by Khruschev who himself was from the Donbass. Crimea was always Russian, they speak Russian and are Russian. Just because one Russian dictator gave it to another Soviet state does not make it correct.
Khruschev wanted to increase the Russian speaking population of Ukraine, part of the great plan to annex Ukraine [ and other Soviet Republics ] gradually.
Surprisingly, for a Tory, you seem to be supporting Khruschev.
What about the right of self determination of the Russian speaking people of the Crimea - about 75%.
You are making the assumption that all the 75% of Russian-speaking Crimeans want to join the thugocracy. Some of them might. That is like assuming that all English-speaking Welshmen are in fact English and want to be ruled by England. What happened is that Putin engineered its annexation, he wants to keep his warm-water port. Yes maybe a majority of Crimeans might have wanted to join Russia but the way it was done was annexation pure and simple.
The machinations of internal politics in the Soviet Union are really neither here nor there. When the Soviet Union broke up, the Ukraine became a Westphalian nation state and entitled to maintain its borders and answer to no-one above them.
0 -
Cult of personality surrounding the leader, emphasis on an almost mystical connection between that leader and Nature, disregard of constitutional proprieties in attaining positions of power, physical and legal intimidation of opposition politicians, wearing military iconography without entitlement, co-opting the support of the local wealthy by promising growth and maximum security, diverting population disquiet at a sluggish economy by identifying, stigmatising and assaulting a minority group, casting the leader as the head of a moral crusade against the decadent West, attracting global sporting events and using them for propaganda purposes...surbiton said:There are 5 Nazi Ministers in the government for heaven's sake. Putin has dictatorial tendencies, yes. But he is no Nazi !!
0 -
Sunil_Prasannan
Russian ships are generally more heavily built due to sea conditions.
If these carriers were intended purely for the Black Sea, they might have decided to go for the French design and yards initially, and build their replacements later?
0 -
Even before the Turkic expansion during the Middle Ages?JohnLilburne said:
Wrong, the Crimea was always Tatar speakingsurbiton said:
No. I don't think it is fair game. Crimea was "given" to Ukraine in 1954 by Khruschev who himself was from the Donbass. Crimea was always Russian, they speak Russian and are Russian. Just because one Russian dictator gave it to another Soviet state does not make it correct.
Khruschev wanted to increase the Russian speaking population of Ukraine, part of the great plan to annex Ukraine [ and other Soviet Republics ] gradually.
Surprisingly, for a Tory, you seem to be supporting Khruschev.
What about the right of self determination of the Russian speaking people of the Crimea - about 75%.0 -
I imagine you might have found the odd Pontic Greek. But no longer relevant as an existing ethno linguistic minority (and not a good example of Russian colonialism either).Sunil_Prasannan said:
Even before the Turkic expansion during the Middle Ages?JohnLilburne said:
Wrong, the Crimea was always Tatar speakingsurbiton said:
No. I don't think it is fair game. Crimea was "given" to Ukraine in 1954 by Khruschev who himself was from the Donbass. Crimea was always Russian, they speak Russian and are Russian. Just because one Russian dictator gave it to another Soviet state does not make it correct.
Khruschev wanted to increase the Russian speaking population of Ukraine, part of the great plan to annex Ukraine [ and other Soviet Republics ] gradually.
Surprisingly, for a Tory, you seem to be supporting Khruschev.
What about the right of self determination of the Russian speaking people of the Crimea - about 75%.
Anyway, enough of a stimulating argument with the site's resident Moskaly, I need to bed.
0 -
viewcode said:
Cult of personality surrounding the leader, emphasis on an almost mystical connection between that leader and Nature, disregard of constitutional proprieties in attaining positions of power, physical and legal intimidation of opposition politicians, wearing military iconography without entitlement, co-opting the support of the local wealthy by promising growth and maximum security, diverting population disquiet at a sluggish economy by identifying, stigmatising and assaulting a minority group, casting the leader as the head of a moral crusade against the decadent West, attracting global sporting events and using them for propaganda purposes...surbiton said:There are 5 Nazi Ministers in the government for heaven's sake. Putin has dictatorial tendencies, yes. But he is no Nazi !!
No need to bring Alex Salmond into this 0 -
Sounds plausible.Smarmeron said:Sunil_Prasannan
Russian ships are generally more heavily built due to sea conditions.
If these carriers were intended purely for the Black Sea, they might have decided to go for the French design and yards initially, and build their replacements later?0 -
спокойной ночиJohnLilburne said:
I imagine you might have found the odd Pontic Greek. But no longer relevant as an existing ethno linguistic minority (and not a good example of Russian colonialism either).Sunil_Prasannan said:
Even before the Turkic expansion during the Middle Ages?JohnLilburne said:
Wrong, the Crimea was always Tatar speakingsurbiton said:
No. I don't think it is fair game. Crimea was "given" to Ukraine in 1954 by Khruschev who himself was from the Donbass. Crimea was always Russian, they speak Russian and are Russian. Just because one Russian dictator gave it to another Soviet state does not make it correct.
Khruschev wanted to increase the Russian speaking population of Ukraine, part of the great plan to annex Ukraine [ and other Soviet Republics ] gradually.
Surprisingly, for a Tory, you seem to be supporting Khruschev.
What about the right of self determination of the Russian speaking people of the Crimea - about 75%.
Anyway, enough of a stimulating argument with the site's resident Moskaly, I need to bed. 0 -
Before I go, interesting to note that the Greek placenames of the Crimea have nothing to do with the Pontic Greeks, they were made up by the Russians. Sebastopol was named after Catherine the Great (sebastos = augustus).JohnLilburne said:
I imagine you might have found the odd Pontic Greek.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Even before the Turkic expansion during the Middle Ages?JohnLilburne said:
Wrong, the Crimea was always Tatar speakingsurbiton said:
No. I don't think it is fair game. Crimea was "given" to Ukraine in 1954 by Khruschev who himself was from the Donbass. Crimea was always Russian, they speak Russian and are Russian. Just because one Russian dictator gave it to another Soviet state does not make it correct.
Khruschev wanted to increase the Russian speaking population of Ukraine, part of the great plan to annex Ukraine [ and other Soviet Republics ] gradually.
Surprisingly, for a Tory, you seem to be supporting Khruschev.
What about the right of self determination of the Russian speaking people of the Crimea - about 75%.
0 -
(continued)viewcode said:
Cult of personality surrounding the leader, emphasis on an almost mystical connection between that leader and Nature, disregard of constitutional proprieties in attaining positions of power, physical and legal intimidation of opposition politicians, wearing military iconography without entitlement, co-opting the support of the local wealthy by promising growth and maximum security, diverting population disquiet at a sluggish economy by identifying, stigmatising and assaulting a minority group, casting the leader as the head of a moral crusade against the decadent West, attracting global sporting events and using them for propaganda purposes...surbiton said:There are 5 Nazi Ministers in the government for heaven's sake. Putin has dictatorial tendencies, yes. But he is no Nazi !!
Originally acceding to leadership post courtesy of a befuddled elder statesman but exceeding the bounds of that post. Aspirations to hold power until death. Gaining the loyalty of the military by increasing expenditure past the point it can be sustained by the local economy...
0 -
So? I'm sure there are many place names in the Americas and Australia that don't have Native American or Aboriginal origins.JohnLilburne said:
Before I go, interesting to note that the Greek placenames of the Crimea have nothing to do with the Pontic Greeks, they were made up by the Russians. Sebastopol was named after Catherine the Great (sebastos = augustus).JohnLilburne said:
I imagine you might have found the odd Pontic Greek.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Even before the Turkic expansion during the Middle Ages?JohnLilburne said:
Wrong, the Crimea was always Tatar speakingsurbiton said:
No. I don't think it is fair game. Crimea was "given" to Ukraine in 1954 by Khruschev who himself was from the Donbass. Crimea was always Russian, they speak Russian and are Russian. Just because one Russian dictator gave it to another Soviet state does not make it correct.
Khruschev wanted to increase the Russian speaking population of Ukraine, part of the great plan to annex Ukraine [ and other Soviet Republics ] gradually.
Surprisingly, for a Tory, you seem to be supporting Khruschev.
What about the right of self determination of the Russian speaking people of the Crimea - about 75%.0 -
(continued)viewcode said:
(continued)viewcode said:
Cult of personality surrounding the leader, emphasis on an almost mystical connection between that leader and Nature, disregard of constitutional proprieties in attaining positions of power, physical and legal intimidation of opposition politicians, wearing military iconography without entitlement, co-opting the support of the local wealthy by promising growth and maximum security, diverting population disquiet at a sluggish economy by identifying, stigmatising and assaulting a minority group, casting the leader as the head of a moral crusade against the decadent West, attracting global sporting events and using them for propaganda purposes...surbiton said:There are 5 Nazi Ministers in the government for heaven's sake. Putin has dictatorial tendencies, yes. But he is no Nazi !!
Originally acceding to leadership post courtesy of a befuddled elder statesman but exceeding the bounds of that post. Aspirations to hold power until death. Gaining the loyalty of the military by increasing expenditure past the point it can be sustained by the local economy...
Aspirations to enforce local hegemony by integrating surrounding countries, using as a pretext the existence of ethnically-similar populations in those countries. Blaming the unaligned population of those countries for their country's annexation. Denying responsibility for military action to other world leaders, long past the point where such denial is plausible...
0 -
Before anyone jumps to conclusions about MH17, I would urge everyone to have a look at the following 3 links:john_zims said:@surbiton
'Is there any proof that the Russian rebels did it ? Who is providing this proof ?'
If there was proof you would still find a way of not believing it or discrediting the source.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXQ_8_KUT3w&feature=youtu.be
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/russia-says-has-photos-ukraine-deploying-buk-missiles-east-rader-proof-warplanes-mh1
http://www.acting-man.com/?p=31876
So much mis-information on this around. Whatever the underlying truth, there is a very hidden US Russian energy war behind all of this. The Syrian conflict had its roots in the same underlying issue. Many misdemeanours on both sides, and certainly not the horrid jingoistic coverage that passed off in our mainstream media and press yesterday.0 -
@JohnLilburne
Actually several Crimean towns do have Greek origins.
For example Yevpatoriya was originally a Greek colony dating back to the pre-Roman era.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yevpatoriya0 -
You really inviting comment from @FluffyThoughts?Richard_Nabavi said:An important article on the possible EU response to events in Ukraine:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/21/ukraine-crisis-sanctions-idUSL6N0PW1Y920140721
A couple of points made in that article look questionable to me, though:
- I suspect the journalists are underestimating the degree of outrage in Holland. Are there any PBers in Holland who could comment on this?
- The article cites this as an argument against the proposition that there will be sanctions: "According to U.N. data, excluding Russian gas exports - around $60 billion a year - the Netherlands was Russia's biggest export destination last year, mostly oil and metals". Surely that is the wrong way round? That sounds like a strong bargaining chip in Dutch and/or EU hands, not the reverse,
@Patrick might have a view0 -
Sounds like a good idea. Very America (cf Pfizer, Merck and Schering)surbiton said:
Why not nationalise the Club and give it to the Supporters ? It would be a boost to the local economy. And a hundred years of litigation... Also, a boost to the economy. Win - win , I say.nigel4england said:
Yes, me.Tykejohnno said:
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn
Our p1 tomorrow: Abramovich and other London oligarchs facing bank account and asset freezes next (ht @Stig Abell) pic.twitter.com/KysxOC8fwR
Any Chelsea fans on here ;-)
I've been warning people on a Chelsea site that this could be an issue, they seem to think that Abramovich is too smart and will have spread his assets around the world. They don't seem to realise that you cannot hide Chelsea FC!
Not sure how the ownership of the club is made up but Abramovich has around £700m in interest free loans attached to the club which could be an issue.0 -
"Crimea was always Russian" - always defined being "since Catherine the Great invaded the Kingdom of Lithuania and seized the land of Crimea from the Mengu Khans"surbiton said:
No. I don't think it is fair game. Crimea was "given" to Ukraine in 1954 by Khruschev who himself was from the Donbass. Crimea was always Russian, they speak Russian and are Russian. Just because one Russian dictator gave it to another Soviet state does not make it correct.
Khruschev wanted to increase the Russian speaking population of Ukraine, part of the great plan to annex Ukraine [ and other Soviet Republics ] gradually.
Surprisingly, for a Tory, you seem to be supporting Khruschev.
What about the right of self determination of the Russian speaking people of the Crimea - about 75%.
"They speak Russian and are Russian" reflecting the fact that the Tatars were ethnically cleansed and sent to Siberia in the 1950s(?)0 -
I have enjoyed reading the comments on Ukraine. I think the quality of debate here would put the MSM to shame as you have nailed most of the key elements. The control of broadcasting and education and language for new Russians in Ukraine are also an issue.
Quite often it is the new arrivals who are the most nationalistic of all and resent those who lived there previously; a case could be mounted for post WW2 jews being the most viciferous in Israel when for 1300 years people had lived together in relative harmony, and to a lesser extent Northern Ireland, where another border nominally chosen along ethnic lines, but not following those lines accurately has caused trouble ever since.
(I say that with a catholic daughter brought up in Strabane 1km inside Northern Ireland.)0 -
The NI borders were settled by plebiscite - hence why NI is 6 counties not the 9 counties of ancient Ulster. IIRC there was a Schlewsig-Holstein approach to the borders around Monaghan and Cavaghan as wellredcliffe62 said:I have enjoyed reading the comments on Ukraine. I think the quality of debate here would put the MSM to shame as you have nailed most of the key elements. The control of broadcasting and education and language for new Russians in Ukraine are also an issue.
Quite often it is the new arrivals who are the most nationalistic of all and resent those who lived there previously; a case could be mounted for post WW2 jews being the most viciferous in Israel when for 1300 years people had lived together in relative harmony, and to a lesser extent Northern Ireland, where another border nominally chosen along ethnic lines, but not following those lines accurately has caused trouble ever since.
(I say that with a catholic daughter brought up in Strabane 1km inside Northern Ireland.)0 -
The borders of NI as defined in 1921 were never settled by plebiscite. There was an act of Parliament and then the border commission of 1925 never got to report its findings for redrawing the border in Tyrone/Armagh because of financial issues.Charles said:
The NI borders were settled by plebiscite - hence why NI is 6 counties not the 9 counties of ancient Ulster. IIRC there was a Schlewsig-Holstein approach to the borders around Monaghan and Cavaghan as wellredcliffe62 said:I have enjoyed reading the comments on Ukraine. I think the quality of debate here would put the MSM to shame as you have nailed most of the key elements. The control of broadcasting and education and language for new Russians in Ukraine are also an issue.
Quite often it is the new arrivals who are the most nationalistic of all and resent those who lived there previously; a case could be mounted for post WW2 jews being the most viciferous in Israel when for 1300 years people had lived together in relative harmony, and to a lesser extent Northern Ireland, where another border nominally chosen along ethnic lines, but not following those lines accurately has caused trouble ever since.
(I say that with a catholic daughter brought up in Strabane 1km inside Northern Ireland.)0 -
@Charles
In the same way that Ulster was "always" Protestant?Charles said:
"Crimea was always Russian" - always defined being "since Catherine the Great invaded the Kingdom of Lithuania and seized the land of Crimea from the Mengu Khans"surbiton said:
No. I don't think it is fair game. Crimea was "given" to Ukraine in 1954 by Khruschev who himself was from the Donbass. Crimea was always Russian, they speak Russian and are Russian. Just because one Russian dictator gave it to another Soviet state does not make it correct.
Khruschev wanted to increase the Russian speaking population of Ukraine, part of the great plan to annex Ukraine [ and other Soviet Republics ] gradually.
Surprisingly, for a Tory, you seem to be supporting Khruschev.
What about the right of self determination of the Russian speaking people of the Crimea - about 75%.
"They speak Russian and are Russian" reflecting the fact that the Tatars were ethnically cleansed and sent to Siberia in the 1950s(?)0
