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Today’s top tip – Don’t make an enemy of Dom Cummings – politicalbetting.com

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  • CandyCandy Posts: 51

    I wonder what is different about their compared to Pfizer and Moderna, that are absolutely dog bollocks against COVID?
    It's a small dose of mRNA.

    Curevac uses a 12ug dose which is really low compared to BioNTech 30ug and moderna 100ug.

    Moderna is the most expensive vaccine because they're not skimping.

  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,931
    The only thing Blyton was guilty of was churning out endless minor variants of the same stuff. Just change the number of kids or the names of the kids. So for every Famous Five there's a Secret Seven, for every Girls of St. Clare's there's a Malory Towers. Nothing wrong with that but was rather one-note.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,355
    I hope Brits have already flown their towels out by DHL:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57504082
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814

    Iraqi WMD bad?

    I suspect if the government had been more honest and said we need four more weeks to vaccinate the young because the delta variant needs two jabs to be properly effective they would have saved them from a world of pain.

    Especially if later down the line there's a vaccine evading variant, that needs a booster.
    Why did this knobhead of a pm and his cabinet spend the last few weeks telling everyone “there is nothing in the data to suggest a delay”?

    There’s no coherence to anything they say or do. The only thing they’ve got right from the start from both directions of the argument is vaccine procurement, and that was outsourced to the private sector.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823

    Iraqi WMD bad?

    I suspect if the government had been more honest and said we need four more weeks to vaccinate the young because the delta variant needs two jabs to be properly effective they would have saved them from a world of pain.

    Especially if later down the line there's a vaccine evading variant, that needs a booster.
    The problem with that argument is the government and scientists have framed lockdown measures as necessary to stop the NHS from toppling under the pressure of COVID patients. It's a fair argument that hits home with the majority of the country. In fact it's why I changed my own position on lockdown in November despite loathing the idea of another one.

    Young people aren't going to cause the NHS to fall down, trying to reframe the reason for lockdown measures as protecting individuals rather than the NHS would get called out as an unnecessary delay because individuals have agency to stay at home.

    It would also have worked better if we'd ordered more Pfizer and Moderna doses for May and June delivery. As it stands we're waiting until mid July for Pfizer to increase their delivery of vaccines to us so until then we're using up existing stock from the 40m order (about 5m left I think) and the 17m Moderna order. If we're waiting for young people to be double jabbed then just on a delivery schedule that puts us at the first week of August plus 10 days for distribution.

    No, the only way to keep the lockdown measures was the route the scientists picked. Present a bunch of dodgy data models to unscientific and data illiterate politicians and scare them with big numbers. If the argument falls apart afterwards it doesn't matter because they've already got their extension.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,530
    Candy said:

    It's a small dose of mRNA.

    Curevac uses a 12ug dose which is really low compared to BioNTech 30ug and moderna 100ug.

    Moderna is the most expensive vaccine because they're not skimping.

    No wonder I feel awesome after my Moderna jab, I'm juiced to the gills.....like an Olympic athlete eating a dodgy burrito...

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/olympic-runner-failed-drug-test-burrito-shelby-houlihan-11623867500
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,682

    I think it is a factor of

    - The scientists wan to use either peer reviewed, published data (the PHE data is real world but not academic published, yet) OR finger in the air worst cases.
    - The politicians aren't pushing back on this, because that would be arguing with the experts* on their area of expertise.

    *Yes, LOL
    Yes, LOL.

    There's another factor, the politics, the government became very unpopular as the bodies piled high, the vaccine rollout overturned that, but if we have another wave and the bodies piling high the government and PM become unpopular.

    This is the risk of populism, they do stuff to remain popular.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,931

    On topic.

    I'm desperately trying to work out a headline for the day Hancock is sacked/moved to another job.


    HanCock Out and Cummings.

    I'm guessing it won't be the the Hollywood film theatrical release poster slogan...

    "There are heroes
    There are superheroes
    And then there's...Hancock"
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,792

    Fuck me - what a set of absolute bell ends. Why can we see the issues straight away but the effing cabinet can't?
    As I mentioned in my post yesterday, the cabinet only has one person who has any scientific training and she is the Work and Pensions bod. They really don't understand. They all are "totally fucking hopeless".

    However if there is ever a crisis where there is a requirement for an understanding of Politics Philosophy and Economics, particularly if it involves an understanding of Ancient Greek we will be very well managed.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    gealbhan said:

    Didn’t Blyton have a golliwog character?

    Oh my God, can I even type or say g******* these days? 😮

    If it’s not okay for white people to black up for black face, is it also not okay for white people to use black face emoji? 👴🏽
    I have just blacked up this white mans post with a black face 👴🏽 How can this possibly be right?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,131
    MaxPB said:

    You aren't. Boris fucked it.
    The only reason Europe is unlocking and we are not is that we allowed a flood of people back from India before eventually introducing restrictions.

    It was such an obvious mistake that even LeadronicT saw it coming.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,812
    Cyclefree said:

    Oh bollocks. I read a load of this stuff when I was a girl. I wrote some as well as a child. It made absolutely no difference to my ambitions. What matters is having parents, especially a father, who believe in their daughter and give her the self-confidence to do and try whatever she wants. And fathers who teach their sons how to behave properly.

    I have no doubt @CasinoRoyale will do that.

    It is not stories which limit girls' opportunities but what men do and don't do. Focus on that rather than distractions which conveniently excuse men from looking at their own behaviour.
    Role models (positive or negative) can be powerful, both in real life and fiction. Your individual personal history doesn't make this less true. And arguing against passive female stereotyping in fiction doesn't detract one iota from the push for gender equality in practice. That's a false either/or. It's like people saying if we didn't devote so much energy to taking the Knee and moaning about statues, we'd have racism licked by next Tuesday. Stuff like that, I submit, is the bollocks.
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337

    Always read your name as an exile in Darfur. And think - crikey, what has he done to deserve that fate?
    No thanks. I've been to Khartoum a few times though.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    On Ukraine -1.5 @ 3.73
  • eekeek Posts: 29,739

    Gove and Johnson are journalists, they don't get numbers, I'm not dissing Classics or PPE as Aaron read PPE but he ended working for companies that required highly numerate people.
    That will be Aaron Bell late of this parish who understands Maths.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592

    As I mentioned in my post yesterday, the cabinet only has one person who has any scientific training and she is the Work and Pensions bod. They really don't understand. They all are "totally fucking hopeless".

    However if there is ever a crisis where there is a requirement for an understanding of Politics Philosophy and Economics, particularly if it involves an understanding of Ancient Greek we will be very well managed.
    Scientific training in this context is a bit over-rated. For modelling any good accountant in industry, or dare I say it, M&A banker, is perfectly capable of building something sensible themselves or interogating one presented to them - and there really shouldn't be a shortage of those in parliament, just perhaps not in the right roles at the moment.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,931

    As I mentioned in my post yesterday, the cabinet only has one person who has any scientific training and she is the Work and Pensions bod. They really don't understand. They all are "totally fucking hopeless".

    However if there is ever a crisis where there is a requirement for an understanding of Politics Philosophy and Economics, particularly if it involves an understanding of Ancient Greek we will be very well managed.
    So essentially if Europe sends us a Trojan Horse we should be good?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,856
    "You need to do something about the British sausages!"
    image
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Over-18s will be able to book their vaccine from tomorrow, Matt Hancock announces

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1405508595828072451?s=20
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,682
    moonshine said:

    Why did this knobhead of a pm and his cabinet spend the last few weeks telling everyone “there is nothing in the data to suggest a delay”?

    There’s no coherence to anything they say or do. The only thing they’ve got right from the start from both directions of the argument is vaccine procurement, and that was outsourced to the private sector.
    As I said the other day, this is the fault of the Tory party and the public, they keep on enabling him.

    He starts to keep on feeling invulnerable to do what he likes.

    Put a border down the Irish Sea, laugh it off.

    Some rather shambolic behaviour over the funding of the flat, ignore it.

    Lie to protect Dom Cummings? The threads from last May are amusing, the people who defended that now criticise BJ and Cummings.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,849
    IanB2 said:

    The only reason Europe is unlocking and we are not is that we allowed a flood of people back from India before eventually introducing restrictions.

    It was such an obvious mistake that even LeadronicT saw it coming.
    And now the stable door is firmly bolted to stop people going to pox-filled places. Can I go to see my clients in Romania without 10 days at home? No! Because of the mega risk of me bringing their 4.2 cases per 100k epidemic back to the safe 76.7 c/100k UK.

    Our rules really were written by utter wazzocks. Please please please don't vote for the Clown Car Wazzock party today in C&A - you'll only encourage Johnson to do yet more stupid.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    MaxPB said:

    The problem with that argument is the government and scientists have framed lockdown measures as necessary to stop the NHS from toppling under the pressure of COVID patients. It's a fair argument that hits home with the majority of the country. In fact it's why I changed my own position on lockdown in November despite loathing the idea of another one.

    Young people aren't going to cause the NHS to fall down, trying to reframe the reason for lockdown measures as protecting individuals rather than the NHS would get called out as an unnecessary delay because individuals have agency to stay at home.

    It would also have worked better if we'd ordered more Pfizer and Moderna doses for May and June delivery. As it stands we're waiting until mid July for Pfizer to increase their delivery of vaccines to us so until then we're using up existing stock from the 40m order (about 5m left I think) and the 17m Moderna order. If we're waiting for young people to be double jabbed then just on a delivery schedule that puts us at the first week of August plus 10 days for distribution.

    No, the only way to keep the lockdown measures was the route the scientists picked. Present a bunch of dodgy data models to unscientific and data illiterate politicians and scare them with big numbers. If the argument falls apart afterwards it doesn't matter because they've already got their extension.
    The fact that took a mere 48 hours to fall apart is satire-cum-documentary.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,682
    eek said:

    That will be Aaron Bell late of this parish who understands Maths.
    Yup, statistics and probabilities in particular.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,792

    You have missed the point.

    The claim, mady by Scott, was that the EU President never had a constitutional role in the UK.

    The fact we could leave was meaningless to that claim.

    It was true, it was meaningful in the fact that we did leave, but until we left it didn't change the fact that she did have a role.
    I think you missed the point Philip. I gently mocked your silly equivalence between Ursula van der Leyen who is not President of the EU as you suggested, but President of the European Commission and POTUS. I was polite about it last time, but now I will be less so. It was one of the most stupid equivalences I have ever seen.

    Just to remind you, you stated : "Oh really?

    Do you think Biden has no constitutional role in Texas?"

    Durrrrr!!!!
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,931

    The fact that took a mere 48 hours to fall apart is satire-cum-documentary.
    Albeit just enough time for the devolved administrations to come up with the same cack-handed responses.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,272
    edited June 2021

    I must admit growing up in the 90s I did find the Secret Seven and Famous Five at times hard to read.

    Not because of any -isms, but because some of the language used and the world it depicts was quite alien to me.

    I knew what neither "ginger beer" was nor what a "lashing" was, for example, but also the portrayal of figures like Quentin's complete indifference to his own child, nieces and nephews.

    I remember reading the Jennings books with similar bewilderment in the Seventies. I enjoyed the tales but couldn't really understand why the boys had to stay in school all the time. I was unclear what the difference between Boarding School and Borstal was.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,189
    Foxy said:

    I remember reading the Jennings books with similar bewilderment in the Seventies. I enjoyed the tales but couldn't really understand why the boys had to stay in school all the time. I was unclear what the difference between Boarding School and Borstal.

    I did 2 years at boarding school. Not sure I worked that out either.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,924

    Fuck me - what a set of absolute bell ends. Why can we see the issues straight away but the effing cabinet can't?
    I wonder if this is happening because the people doing this modelling aren't used to dealing with real world data at the speed we are getting it.

    In previous pandemics nobody has had the genetic sequence of half the cases a few days after they were sampled. The amount of information we are getting is utterly unprecedented.

    The academics have spent years cooking up models based on theoretical modelling of previous pandemics and using theoretical inputs because they haven't got real ones. The models are thus designed to produce scientific papers and discussion.

    Perhaps it is difficult to switch to the culture of real-time analysis? Where pet theories go out the window faster then you can say hmmm, that doesn't look right?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,232

    Yes, LOL.

    There's another factor, the politics, the government became very unpopular as the bodies piled high, the vaccine rollout overturned that, but if we have another wave and the bodies piling high the government and PM become unpopular.

    This is the risk of populism, they do stuff to remain popular.
    That is merely politics. Not populism. No-one is going to go on TV and say "Well, I am going to bet 100K lives on Red at the roulette table".

    Consider the examples round the world - Fuck the economy, go NZ is the winning move.

    Expecting the politicians too say to the scientists - "Use the non-peer-reviewed-and-published numbers from PHE".....

    The fact is that the PHE numbers are very good because they come from a vast, real world data set. But they haven't been blessed by The Lancet or Nature. Yet.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,739

    Yup, statistics and probabilities in particular.
    But you don't even need maths. You could start with - What is the source of this data? Why is this source being used not the historic one you've always used before?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,324

    No wonder I feel awesome after my Moderna jab, I'm juiced to the gills.....like an Olympic athlete eating a dodgy burrito...

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/olympic-runner-failed-drug-test-burrito-shelby-houlihan-11623867500
    That excuse didn't work for Contador... Though he was on bute not nandrolone.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,189

    Yup, statistics and probabilities in particular.
    If the government will no longer come to PB then PB has to go to the government.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279
    Foxy said:

    I remember reading the Jennings books with similar bewilderment in the Seventies. I enjoyed the tales but couldn't really understand why the boys had to stay in school all the time. I was unclear what the difference between Boarding School and Borstal was.

    Better food. (In the latter.)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,530
    edited June 2021
    People saying GB News is just all low brow moaning...while Andrew Neil was giving Dishy Rishi a duffing up...over on ITV Prof Peston was joined by another fake Professor...

    https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1405296815956713482?s=19
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,812

    Yes. Because my daughter very much knows her own mind, and is perfectly able to distinguish between a fantasy make-believe love story and reality. The rest of your post is just weird - you do know no-one normal thinks like that, right?

    Children aren't programmable drones, and nor do they view everything through a prism of intersectionality. In fact, they don't notice it at all.

    It's very telling that Guardianistas think they are - presumably because they'd like to try and do a bit of programming themselves.
    Nobody normal gives a moment's thought to the impact of negative stereotypes in children's fiction? - I find this an odd statement.

    Also of course (!) kids are not programmable drones. But neither are they born with an unerring ability to sort the wheat from the chaff. It's somewhere in between.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kinabalu said:

    Role models (positive or negative) can be powerful, both in real life and fiction. Your individual personal history doesn't make this less true. And arguing against passive female stereotyping in fiction doesn't detract one iota from the push for gender equality in practice. That's a false either/or. It's like people saying if we didn't devote so much energy to taking the Knee and moaning about statues, we'd have racism licked by next Tuesday. Stuff like that, I submit, is the bollocks.
    My daughter was told to write about someone who inspired her.

    She proposed Alfred the Great… and was told that was unacceptable… was told it was more “appropriate” to write about someone who had done community work in their local area
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,530
    edited June 2021

    Yup, statistics and probabilities in particular.
    They can't do basic 101 stats.... probability, I mean that way out of their league....and don't get started on Bayesian approaches.

    Although obviously Prof Peston is an expert.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,232
    edited June 2021

    I wonder if this is happening because the people doing this modelling aren't used to dealing with real world data at the speed we are getting it.

    In previous pandemics nobody has had the genetic sequence of half the cases a few days after they were sampled. The amount of information we are getting is utterly unprecedented.

    The academics have spent years cooking up models based on theoretical modelling of previous pandemics and using theoretical inputs because they haven't got real ones. The models are thus designed to produce scientific papers and discussion.

    Perhaps it is difficult to switch to the culture of real-time analysis? Where pet theories go out the window faster then you can say hmmm, that doesn't look right?
    Partly yes.

    My theory is that they have been conditioned that there are three categories of data

    1) Peer reviewed, published - TRUTH
    2) Modelled guesswork - WORKING HYPOTHESIS
    3) Pre-publication, real world, numbers - which almost DO NOT EXIST

    What they are unaccustomed to is huge, real world datasets, whose conclusions are so clear that they don't need peer review to go from 1 -> 3 in quality.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    maaarsh said:

    Scientific training in this context is a bit over-rated. For modelling any good accountant in industry, or dare I say it, M&A banker, is perfectly capable of building something sensible themselves or interogating one presented to them - and there really shouldn't be a shortage of those in parliament, just perhaps not in the right roles at the moment.
    M&A bankers are great.

    Tell them the answer you want and they will build a robust and compelling model to justify it
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,849
    The Italian invasion of Scotland is running +1 late at Lanark...
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279
    ping said:

    On Ukraine -1.5 @ 3.73

    I've gone for 0-0 at 11.5
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,189

    I wonder if this is happening because the people doing this modelling aren't used to dealing with real world data at the speed we are getting it.

    In previous pandemics nobody has had the genetic sequence of half the cases a few days after they were sampled. The amount of information we are getting is utterly unprecedented.

    The academics have spent years cooking up models based on theoretical modelling of previous pandemics and using theoretical inputs because they haven't got real ones. The models are thus designed to produce scientific papers and discussion.

    Perhaps it is difficult to switch to the culture of real-time analysis? Where pet theories go out the window faster then you can say hmmm, that doesn't look right?
    This is one of the more interesting things that Cummings was talking about whilst people obsessed on the panto dame nonsense. Politicians, who have no useful or relevant training anyway, are being given crap and then asked to make decisions which we complain are crap. Well, there's a shocker.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021
    Ukraine steamrollering Macedonia

    Can’t stay 0-0 for long
  • isamisam Posts: 41,342
    edited June 2021
    OllyT said:

    Hand on a mo, I thought you Brexiteers were telling us a couple of days ago that current labour shortages were nothing to do with Brexit.

    This, I suspect, will be the new leaver manta - if it's good it's because of Brexit, if it's bad it's because of Covid.
    Hand on a mo right back at you, I never said any such thing

    But the reverse point has been happening from Remainers a long long while
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,189

    People saying GB News is just all low brow moaning...while Andrew Neil was giving Dishy Rishi a duffing up...over on ITV Prof Peston was joined by another fake Professor...

    https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1405296815956713482?s=19

    It was good of him to say that firstly, it saved time.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,483
    edited June 2021
    Mr. Charles, sounds like your daughter's got good judgement. And her teacher does not.

    As an aside, I've almost finished the new book by Marc Morris The Anglo-Saxons: A History of the Beginnings of England. Rather liking it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,682

    They can't do basic 101 stats.... probability, I mean that way out of their league....and don't get started on Bayesian approaches.

    Although obviously Prof Peston is an expert.
    Yup, although Peter Hitchens did amuse us all as he proved how thick innumerate he really is when he decided to educate us on all things ‘stochastic’.

    https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1258679760902934528
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    430,399 vaccinations in Flag of United Kingdom yesterday

    England 170,367 1st doses / 180,627 2nd doses
    Scotland 19,987 / 22,708
    Wales 3,218 / 21,863
    NI 1,993 / 9,636


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1405513477217832962?s=20
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,232
    Charles said:

    My daughter was told to write about someone who inspired her.

    She proposed Alfred the Great… and was told that was unacceptable… was told it was more “appropriate” to write about someone who had done community work in their local area
    She should have written about the community work that Alfred did in her local area.... Some of it was about head count reduction in the immigrant community, true, but there is lots of positive stuff in there as well.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,682
    ping said:

    Ukraine steamrollering Macedonia

    Can’t stay 0-0 for long

    North Macedonia.

    You're going to start an international incident if you keep on calling them just Macedonia.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,342

    On topic.

    I'm desperately trying to work out a headline for the day Hancock is sacked/moved to another job.


    HanCock Out and Cummings.

    If Boris is dithering over whether to fire him or not it could be "Hancock's Half Out"
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,205
    edited June 2021
    Lee Hurst has broken twitter, or at least got Black Death trending.

    Has anyone got any pictures of people receiving vaccinations during the Black Death?
    Surely everyone must have been vaccinated back then or else how did we survive as a species?

    https://twitter.com/LeeHurstComic/status/1405423188297797633
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,530

    Yup, although Peter Hitchens did amuse us all as he proved how thick innumerate he really is when he decided to educate us on all things ‘stochastic’.

    https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1258679760902934528
    Lol, I forgot about that one...
  • pingping Posts: 3,805

    North Macedonia.

    You're going to start an international incident if you keep on calling them just Macedonia.
    Pft

    Bloody Greeks
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594

    Mr. Charles, sounds like your daughter's got good judgement. And her teacher does not.

    As an aside, I've almost finished the new book by Marc Morris The Anglo-Saxons: A History of the Beginnings of England. Rather liking it.

    His book on Edward I was very good.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,530

    430,399 vaccinations in Flag of United Kingdom yesterday

    England 170,367 1st doses / 180,627 2nd doses
    Scotland 19,987 / 22,708
    Wales 3,218 / 21,863
    NI 1,993 / 9,636


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1405513477217832962?s=20

    All together now....piss...poor....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,576
    DavidL said:

    Whilst I agree with that sentiment whole heartedly I am not sure that the parameters of what girls can do should or is set by, "what men do and don't do." Women who are ambitious and capable need also to have the determination and confidence that your father evidently gave to you and which you seem to have passed to your daughter.
    My sister always had more ambition and ability that our father gave her credit for. In spite of our mother having run her own pharmacy for several years before and indeed after she married.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,563

    I wonder if this is happening because the people doing this modelling aren't used to dealing with real world data at the speed we are getting it.

    In previous pandemics nobody has had the genetic sequence of half the cases a few days after they were sampled. The amount of information we are getting is utterly unprecedented.

    The academics have spent years cooking up models based on theoretical modelling of previous pandemics and using theoretical inputs because they haven't got real ones. The models are thus designed to produce scientific papers and discussion.

    Perhaps it is difficult to switch to the culture of real-time analysis? Where pet theories go out the window faster then you can say hmmm, that doesn't look right?
    Whatever the reasons the issue of using academic models to govern is turning into easily one of the most important f*ck ups of this whole crisis. It is an issue that we on PB have turned to again and again through out this crisis and yet here we are again. Out of date data, crap models, ludicrous predictions that can't stand up for more than 24 hours in actual day light, models which have failed repeatedly still being worshipped as if they are the bloody Oracle of Delphi.

    Millions of lives still stunted because of this over reliance on what is turning into a laughing stock (again!!!). I'm pissed as the americans say.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,530

    Lee Hurst has broken twitter, or at least got Black Death trending.

    Has anyone got any pictures of people receiving vaccinations during the Black Death?
    Surely everyone must have been vaccinated back then or else how did we survive as a species?

    https://twitter.com/LeeHurstComic/status/1405423188297797633

    Ban hammer incoming from the twitter police.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,682

    Lee Hurst has broken twitter, or at least got Black Death trending.

    Has anyone got any pictures of people receiving vaccinations during the Black Death?
    Surely everyone must have been vaccinated back then or else how did we survive as a species?

    https://twitter.com/LeeHurstComic/status/1405423188297797633

    He's turning into a bigger bellend that Matt Le Tissier, who spread the antivaxxer nonsense that Christian Eriksen had his cardiac arrest because he had his Covid-19 vaccine.

    https://twitter.com/mattletiss7/status/1404351111490854914

    Spoiler Alert: Eriksen has yet to be vaccinated.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,189

    The Italian invasion of Scotland is running +1 late at Lanark...

    How much are they aiming to beat the record by? Would 1m late still get it?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,924

    Partly yes.

    My theory is that they have been conditioned that there are three categories of data

    1) Peer reviewed, published - TRUTH
    2) Modelled guesswork - WORKING HYPOTHESIS
    3) Pre-publication, real world, numbers - which almost DO NOT EXIST

    What they are unaccustomed to is huge, real world datasets, whose conclusions are so clear that they don't need peer review to go from 1 -> 3 in quality.
    Most formal peer review doesn't check the numbers properly anyway. Does any reviewer write their own interpretation of a model to check there are no bugs in the output? Of course they don't...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,812

    I'm a bit torn on Enid Blyton. There is a significant amount of lazy home counties xenophobia in her books, a huge amount of minor public school snobbery as well as out and out racism. I would probably keep the book about the black doll whose nasty black skin was washed clean by the rain out of our house, although I think my kids have enough self-worth not to be negatively affected by it. Her books are lacking in subtlety too.
    On the other hand, they are well constructed stories and can hold the attention of young kids as they're starting to engage with books. The books are also some of the first to feature an obviously gender-queer character! We have some of her books in our house despite being fully signed up members of the wokerati.
    In general I am not a fan of banning books or writers, and you can separate writer from art (eg Roald Dahl, right-wing anti-semite but wrote great books for children). It's harder when the work itself is problematic. Kids can figure this out of course, as long as adults are on hand to explain the context and deal with any questions that arise.
    My favourite books are the Swallows and Amazon's series, which are actually surprisingly free of racism etc as I recall, despite being written almost 100 years ago. Arthur Randsome was quite left wing though, which perhaps explains it. He may have been woke before his time. "Better drowned than duffers, if not duffers won't drown" is a parenting style to live by.
    A layered post, infused (if I may say so) with some real Blyton expertise. And no surprise either, because us Woke are not the fanatical demons of lore. We have oodles of commonsense, just not of the "plain, common-or-garden" variety. And who wants to be plain or common-or-garden anyway?

    The fact is, we don't need slaying. We need listening to.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,483
    Mr. kle4, it is, and I really liked his book on the Norman Conquest too (got the paper back, new, for just £3, which was nice).
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    Charles said:

    My daughter was told to write about someone who inspired her.

    She proposed Alfred the Great… and was told that was unacceptable… was told it was more “appropriate” to write about someone who had done community work in their local area
    Sounds like you need to change schools.

    I am delighted with the absence of “conspicuous woke” at my daughter’s school so far (she is 6) but concede that it may be more obvious as she gets older.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,530
    edited June 2021

    He's turning into a bigger bellend that Matt Le Tissier, who spread the antivaxxer nonsense that Christian Eriksen had his cardiac arrest because he had his Covid-19 vaccine.

    https://twitter.com/mattletiss7/status/1404351111490854914

    Spoiler Alert: Eriksen has yet to be vaccinated.
    I can't believe how many sportsmen haven't been vaccinated. If you get long covid that could be career over. Even losing say 5% output in lots of sports e.g. cycling, that is probably career over, compared to us plebs who just won't be quite as competitive in a zwift race.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    I love reading the Blyton (and Lewis, and Dahl) books to my daughter as I get to put on all the silly voices.

    Only last night we started “Prince Caspian” and Peter and Lucy were complaining about the queerest feelings they had ever known.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,563
    Be interesting to see the covid numbers in next week or two. Some very high profile zero coviders have lashed themselves very tightly to the delta mast.

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,792
    maaarsh said:

    Scientific training in this context is a bit over-rated. For modelling any good accountant in industry, or dare I say it, M&A banker, is perfectly capable of building something sensible themselves or interogating one presented to them - and there really shouldn't be a shortage of those in parliament, just perhaps not in the right roles at the moment.
    Interesting comment, and true, up to a point. It would be useful if a few people in cabinet understood the scientific mindset in addition to understanding how to model numbers. Sadly it seems neither of these skillsets are present. If we needed the ability to write a polemic in half an hour, or the philosophy of right wing politics in the 21st century then that would be well within the cabinet's comfort zone.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,682

    I can't believe how many sportsmen haven't been vaccinated. If you get long covid that could be career over. Even losing say 5% output in lots of sports e.g. cycling, that is probably career over.
    Well I reckon footballers have achieved herd immunity well before the vaccines rolled out.

    I think I read somewhere that footballers and a lot of sports people are waiting for the off season to have the jabs, lest they don't have a reaction during the season.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,682

    Lol, I forgot about that one...
    It was the highlight of lockdown one.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,924

    I can't believe how many sportsmen haven't been vaccinated. If you get long covid that could be career over. Even losing say 5% output in lots of sports e.g. cycling, that is probably career over, compared to us plebs who just won't be quite as competitive in a zwift race.
    Some of the footballers who got Covid have definitely seemed less effective afterwards.

    The team fitness gurus will know, but might not want to say anything if they are hoping to offload them on another club.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,530

    It was the highlight of lockdown one.
    And with that i must be back to running my guessing models.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,563

    Sounds like you need to change schools.

    I am delighted with the absence of “conspicuous woke” at my daughter’s school so far (she is 6) but concede that it may be more obvious as she gets older.
    Alfred the Great did a lot of community work in what is now known as England.

    So I suggest the daughter presses on with her original intent.
  • ridaligoridaligo Posts: 174
    MaxPB said:

    The scandal is politicians making decisions based on modelled data. When Boris said delaying would save thousands of lives that's modelled data and the politicians have just looked at some numbers, assumed they are true and have high predictive value then made the decision. Most data models have got very poor predictive value, if they didn't the people who make them would be making millions in the city.

    As always, the politicians, media and scientists are letting the nation down in different ways. The lack of scepticism shown by all three to modelled data is really shocking.
    Agreed Max. I'd say there are two related scandals.

    The first, as you say, is a reliance on and lack of scrutiny of modelled data from a narrow selection of sources. Anyone who knows anything about modelling knows that the important factors are [1] how the model is structured [2] the assumptions being fed in and [3] how effectively the model is recalibrated based on actual data. Relying on the output of a model you don't fundamentally understand is folly. The fact that these models have not been scrutinized effectively in the public domain given the impact they are having on our lives is scandalous.

    The second is the government propaganda (fear mongering) machine, which is a related issue because it quashes dissenting voices that might otherwise be louder in calling for more transparency of the modelled data, which seems to be accepted by the public without question.

    What good will the no-doubt endless inquiries be in years to come in addressing these issues? Useless, I'd suggest.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021
    Stocky said:

    I've gone for 0-0 at 11.5
    Bad luck

    Ukraine have this sewn up
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,609

    Some of the footballers who got Covid have definitely seemed less effective afterwards.

    The team fitness gurus will know, but might not want to say anything if they are hoping to offload them on another club.
    I know a lot of runners who have reported fatigue and decreased output after vaccination. I suspect many professional sportsmen will be waiting for the off season, if they have one, or a period of planned rest, before being vaccinated
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,812
    Charles said:

    My daughter was told to write about someone who inspired her.

    She proposed Alfred the Great… and was told that was unacceptable… was told it was more “appropriate” to write about someone who had done community work in their local area
    Didn't Alfred the Great do any community work in his local area?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,344
    Charles said:

    My daughter was told to write about someone who inspired her.

    She proposed Alfred the Great… and was told that was unacceptable… was told it was more “appropriate” to write about someone who had done community work in their local area
    Maybe they didn't want her using a member of the family.

    You are related, right?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,272

    Alfred the Great did a lot of community work in what is now known as England.

    So I suggest the daughter presses on with her original intent.
    Surely the original intent was a living figure that inspires, even if the instruction was unclear.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630

    430,399 vaccinations in Flag of United Kingdom yesterday

    England 170,367 1st doses / 180,627 2nd doses
    Scotland 19,987 / 22,708
    Wales 3,218 / 21,863
    NI 1,993 / 9,636


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1405513477217832962?s=20

    Awful, terrible, why is it so different from Monday etc etc etc...
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,607

    Be interesting to see the covid numbers in next week or two. Some very high profile zero coviders have lashed themselves very tightly to the delta mast.

    I for one will be very happy if the numbers look like they’re turning down.

    Lol, I forgot about that one...
    Ah yes, I remember the time when I tried to use the dictionary to prove I was right & threw a wobbly when that wasn’t enough to convince people.

    I was wrong & the teacher was right as it happened. So not much difference between me & Peter Hitchens, excepting the small detail that I was seven at the time.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,559

    All together now....piss...poor....
    Well, they've got their four more weeks....no rush....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,576
    edited June 2021

    Alfred the Great did a lot of community work in what is now known as England.

    So I suggest the daughter presses on with her original intent.
    I would suggest that the teacher is at fault for not asking the right question.
    'Someone who inspired me....... how about Noah. All that construction skill?"

    If you want a 'local' answer, rephrase the question.

    Edit. As per Dr Foxy's comment upthread.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,773
    Candy said:

    It's a small dose of mRNA.

    Curevac uses a 12ug dose which is really low compared to BioNTech 30ug and moderna 100ug.

    Moderna is the most expensive vaccine because they're not skimping.

    Though the fractional doses in both Pfizer and Moderna trials looked pretty good, too.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630

    He's turning into a bigger bellend that Matt Le Tissier, who spread the antivaxxer nonsense that Christian Eriksen had his cardiac arrest because he had his Covid-19 vaccine.

    https://twitter.com/mattletiss7/status/1404351111490854914

    Spoiler Alert: Eriksen has yet to be vaccinated.
    Ah - heart attack because he hadn't had the vaccine. There's his mistake right there...
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021
    ping said:

    Bad luck

    Ukraine have this sewn up
    Now 2-0

    My tipping has been top notch so far this euros, even if I do say so myself!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,559

    No thanks. I've been to Khartoum a few times though.
    You're impressing no-one on here until you've posted on here from Somalia.....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Our latest Westminster GB voting intention for @itvpeston:

    CON 45 (+1)
    LAB 34 (+2)
    GRN 7 (-1)
    LD 5 (-2)
    SNP 5 (=)
    RUK 3 (+1)
    PC 1 (=)
    OTH 1 (=)

    Fieldwork 7th-14th June (changes vs 27th-28th May) n=1,517


    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1405519041393877004?s=20
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    kinabalu said:

    Didn't Alfred the Great do any community work in his local area?
    I believe he was very poor at cookery and it was suggested his strengths lay elsewhere.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    When can we expect a result in C&A?

    I saw a random tweet this morning suggested that the Cons were utterly shitting themselves.

    I’m still predicting a Con win, but I admit to being a bit nervous.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630

    Most formal peer review doesn't check the numbers properly anyway. Does any reviewer write their own interpretation of a model to check there are no bugs in the output? Of course they don't...
    Peer review is much misunderstood by the general public. Its is definitely not checking all the numbers etc. Rather it is about plausibility, what experiments should have been done but haven't, is the data analysis sound, are conclusions justified by the evidence. I feel too many in the public think peer review means replication of the work.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,342

    Well I reckon footballers have achieved herd immunity well before the vaccines rolled out.

    I think I read somewhere that footballers and a lot of sports people are waiting for the off season to have the jabs, lest they don't have a reaction during the season.
    My Dads mate is working with the Premier League on Covid, he said a lot of the players were having bad reactions to the jab, so it's not surprising plenty would wait until the season is finished to get it done
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,366

    Interesting comment, and true, up to a point. It would be useful if a few people in cabinet understood the scientific mindset in addition to understanding how to model numbers. Sadly it seems neither of these skillsets are present. If we needed the ability to write a polemic in half an hour, or the philosophy of right wing politics in the 21st century then that would be well within the cabinet's comfort zone.
    The main clash I see between the scientific mindset and the political one is the willingness to say "we don't know for sure, here is the central estimate and these are the uncertainty ranges." If you do science- especially experimental science- you learn to live with this and (to an extent) work round it. In politics, you can't say that without looking weak, shifty or both. And in a new pandemic, the uncertainty ranges are huge. It's why the initial estimates from the Oxford group (that we passed herd immunity last summer) weren't that evil at the time- that was within the uncertainty range. The evil came later, clinging to them when they were contradicted by events.

    It's where Domski has a point- we have a political system that selects for the wrong people.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    When can we expect a result in C&A?

    I saw a random tweet this morning suggested that the Cons were utterly shitting themselves.

    I’m still predicting a Con win, but I admit to being a bit nervous.

    Im surprised this hasnt shown up in the betting yet. Libs odds in a fair amount from last week but still huge outsiders.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,773
    Foxy said:

    I remember reading the Jennings books with similar bewilderment in the Seventies. I enjoyed the tales but couldn't really understand why the boys had to stay in school all the time. I was unclear what the difference between Boarding School and Borstal was.

    In many cases, not much.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    Random question, since there are all sorts of mad experts on this site.

    How difficult would it be to create an permanent island at Dogger Bank?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,773
    Charles said:

    My daughter was told to write about someone who inspired her.

    She proposed Alfred the Great… and was told that was unacceptable… was told it was more “appropriate” to write about someone who had done community work in their local area
    How would that exclude Alfred ?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,576
    edited June 2021

    Random question, since there are all sorts of mad experts on this site.

    How difficult would it be to create an permanent island at Dogger Bank?

    Probably easier than at Goodwin Sands, and there was a suggestion about that some time ago

    Wikipedia says: The water depth ranges from 15 to 36 metres (50 to 120 ft), about 20 metres (65 ft) shallower than the surrounding sea.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,812
    edited June 2021
    DavidL said:

    I did 2 years at boarding school. Not sure I worked that out either.
    No boarding school for me and I'm glad about that. I associate them with claustrophobia and oppression. I think it influenced Orwell's work. Imagine the future, Eric, being flicked across the arse with a wet towel - forever.
This discussion has been closed.