Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

The Boris vaccination poll “bounce” will evaporate unless those who’ve had both jabs start to see so

2456

Comments

  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    The limiting factor for me on foreign travel this summer is not the cost, the quarantine, the testing but the airport. They are grim places full of the overly stressed turning into idiots at the best of times, but 6 hour queues wearing a mask, no thanks.

    I'd expect the airports continue to struggle all summer as each time they fix the current problem, additional countries will get moved to the green lists and the airports wont keep up with capacity changes.

    I normally love airports so I guess my starting point is to ask if you normally dislike them?

    The shops are open again and I think things will start running more smoothly. Red Terminal 3 is a very good starting point for making it less stressful.

    Mind you, I'm a business traveller so I always use business lounges which makes the whole experience very pleasant.
    Love airports wow! Business class is definitely a lot less stressful but the airport bit is never enjoyable even with the lounges. The worst bits are the interminable waiting and queuing and the baggage carousel, where (almost) literally no-one understands that if we all stayed behind the lines clearly marked on the floor it would work so much smoother.
    There are lots of places that other/most people hate but i really rather enjoy. Airports, supermarkets, travelling on public transport (particularly in London), shopping at Christmas...

    I think it's just the mass of crowds, people from all walks of life in one place - everywhere you look a hidden story. Ironic in a way because i'm a natural introvert who doesn't actually enjoy meeting people (so often feel isolated at eg. parties or events where doing so is a necessary precondition to enjoyment).

    I think it helps that i am the sort of person that never goes out of my way to be in a hurry, or find reasons to increase my stress level, which means i can take that bit of time to just observe the world going by without getting caught up in the frustrations or stress that many are experiencing*. There might be an occasional laugh or joke with a complete stranger about a situation you find yourself in or observe - where both are of one thought/mind, and of course there's always the potential for a bit of shared complaining and cursing at the stupidity of others/authority/bureaucracy if necessary. But generally if i can just sit somewhere with a cup of coffee, a book or the internet - that's enough for me.

    *of course it all goes out of the window the moment i am up against a hard deadline and running seriously late - at that point panic and anxiety rapidly kick in. My basic approach in most situations is guided by fear of the latter. Get there early. Have plenty of time. And leave the stress to others. And to some extent gain enjoyment out of the fact that they are stressed and i am not.
    Solo travel is great for introverts, and I too quite ejoy the mundane bits such as using public transport (in non covid times). It is great for people watching, but you do not have to engage in conversation, and when you do it is semi scripted.

    I like foreign supermarkets, hospitals*, and rail travel. Each is an insight into how people live that a package misses out.

    *in a professional capacity! When on my work related trips.
    Absolutely. And a bit more concise ;)
  • andypetukandypetuk Posts: 69

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Yes, i really doubt there's much mileage for Labour in using Cummings as a star witness to Government incompetence and or mendacity. If anything his appearances help Johnson by reminding people that he's no longer in charge of anything!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    edited May 2021
    "There are other points of entry to power.”

    I don't disagree with Miliband. The Left itself, and the public generally, would benefit if they would find something useful to do while the Tories are in government, and show by example the character of what they hope to achieve in office.

    But for all that Miliband might have learned to ride a bicycle he hasn't learned how to make his point in anything other than the most obscure language. I like him, but policy wonks should never get the top job.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/22/ed-miliband-was-50-finally-mastered-art-riding-bike

  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    MaxPB said:

    "nonsense over the amber list"?

    Green - you can go there

    Red - you can't go there

    Amber - well, you CAN go - but I wouldn't if I were you and don't come crying to us if your holibobs go tits up....

    It's about the return of taking personal responsibility.

    Had the message for all the amber countries always been what you say then great! But the government (or are they now just a range of tits in job-titled jackets?) have been banging on and on about unlocking and holidays with stories fed to their client press wapping great big page 1 leads about it.

    What makes it even stupider is that we create a green list that includes countries you CANNOT travel to like Singapore. Surely a basic requirement of a green status is that you can actually travel there.
    Not really, the list system is for incoming travellers. It's not necessarily about coming back, it is just about coming to the UK.

    Take the example of a long term resident in Singapore who is a British citizen, they can now come to the UK with few checks and then fly back to Singapore as they are a long term resident.

    Eventually the UK will be added to other green lists because our vaccine programme is advancing very rapidly. I know for sure that a lot of East Asian countries have got the UK pencilled in for green listing. We've been told that resuming business flying to Japan is weeks away rather than months now and that's based on the Japanese government green listing UK vaccinated arrivals.
    Just a shame that Japan will be heading in the other direction on the UK list...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    "nonsense over the amber list"?

    Green - you can go there

    Red - you can't go there

    Amber - well, you CAN go - but I wouldn't if I were you and don't come crying to us if your holibobs go tits up....

    It's about the return of taking personal responsibility.

    As much as the media wants to say "its so confusing" about being able to go to an amber country, but it not being recommended to do so - almost everyone surely understands instinctively that is what amber means.

    Red: Stop, Green: Go, Amber: You can go, but stop if its safe to do so and it could turn red.

    Even my four year old knows what the traffic light colours mean as she'll say what they mean from her booster seat whenever we reach the traffic lights!
    It’s basically the system the FO have used for travel advice for 40 years, tweaked for the pandemic.

    That said, I would have made all countries amber right now. Although vaccines mean there shouldn’t be a repeat of last summer where virus seeded from abroad scythed through reopened schools and unis, I would like to see most countries at our level of jabbing before flights resume.
    I am booked for Madeira in December, on a 10% deposit, which I did while in the red category, now it is green. Things change quickly. It was quite a bargain when I booked, less so now.

    From the 5Live phone in the other day, it does seem as if many holidays were carried forward a year, and the companies are saying to people to go, or to lose it.

    Compared to last year's weather Britain is not a great place to be holidaying at present. It reminds me of the soggy spring of the London Olympics. Remember the waterlogged Jubilee flotilla on the Thames that year?
    Yes. For some reason it was Tuesday rather than Monday when the tourist hordes arrived here. Since then theyve mostly been inside hiding from winds that topped 85mph
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,006

    The answer with an airport is to allow plenty of time, kick back and soak it up. Start to feel the unwind. Watch people: see them interacting. You'll see every human emotion going. Experience their fears, their thrills, their stresses, their sadness, their joys.

    Savour your moment too. International travel will be even more precious after this pandemic.

    Travel is when I come alive, and airports too even when they throw curve-balls at you. Most of my life is humdrum until I draw up at Arrivals. Then the fun starts.

    I spend plenty of time on YouTube sharing other people's love of airports and flying to get them to all kinds of interesting places. It still doesn't change my absolute detestation of everything flying. The shopping mall airports where the only places you can sit down are selling you something. The waiting. The queuing. Sitting cramped up in a seat with a reasonable chance of nearby wazzocks. Then more waiting and queuing at the other end.

    If you like that, fab. I get the train or drive where I can. Trains are so much better, and unlike flying over somewhere you actually experience it by travelling through it. Have to go see the client in Romania when allowed, already planning a rail trip back.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    alex_ said:

    MaxPB said:

    "nonsense over the amber list"?

    Green - you can go there

    Red - you can't go there

    Amber - well, you CAN go - but I wouldn't if I were you and don't come crying to us if your holibobs go tits up....

    It's about the return of taking personal responsibility.

    Had the message for all the amber countries always been what you say then great! But the government (or are they now just a range of tits in job-titled jackets?) have been banging on and on about unlocking and holidays with stories fed to their client press wapping great big page 1 leads about it.

    What makes it even stupider is that we create a green list that includes countries you CANNOT travel to like Singapore. Surely a basic requirement of a green status is that you can actually travel there.
    Not really, the list system is for incoming travellers. It's not necessarily about coming back, it is just about coming to the UK.

    Take the example of a long term resident in Singapore who is a British citizen, they can now come to the UK with few checks and then fly back to Singapore as they are a long term resident.

    Eventually the UK will be added to other green lists because our vaccine programme is advancing very rapidly. I know for sure that a lot of East Asian countries have got the UK pencilled in for green listing. We've been told that resuming business flying to Japan is weeks away rather than months now and that's based on the Japanese government green listing UK vaccinated arrivals.
    Just a shame that Japan will be heading in the other direction on the UK list...
    Indeed, the vaccine rate there is pathetic.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,840
    Being able to see friends and family with no worries anyone will get seriously ill from covid is a big benefit for now tbh.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Pulpstar said:

    Being able to see friends and family with no worries anyone will get seriously ill from covid is a big benefit for now tbh.

    Yes that's the other thing, June 21st is going to be seen as the biggest step of all. Especially if reports from last night are true and Boris is ready to ignore Gove and Hancock to junk all social distancing and masks after hearing SAGE say that the India variant is not particularly different to the Kent one.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    RE: vaccinations. We still hear a lot (when people are bullish about our vaccination performance etc) about how which we have first dose vaccinated 70% of our adult population, we should remember that a large proportion of these are still not 'fully vaccinated'. This is on the assumption that whilst one dose gives temporary protection (and really that should be enough for any country imposing vaccine conditions for people in the "interim period"), you need the second dose for lasting protection (subject to 'booster' programmes in the autumn etc - which i think are more designed to target the possibility of future variants, so may not even be necessary.

    However what are the studies actually showing about the need for "second doses"? I'm not sure whether the requirement for these is based on scientific assumption, manufacturer assertions and/or basic vaccine technologies (why are Pfizer, AZ etc 2 dose regimes but J&J one dose for example?) or real world experience of second dose refuseniks.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,080
    alex_ said:

    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Yes, i really doubt there's much mileage for Labour in using Cummings as a star witness to Government incompetence and or mendacity. If anything his appearances help Johnson by reminding people that he's no longer in charge of anything!
    As long as it's just he said / he said, Johnson is in the clear. Nobody really likes Cummings, nobody really trusts him. We'd all rather believe Boris. Partly because we don't want to believe that we've put such a terrible man in No 10.

    Where it gets more interesting is if any of it is on the record. Emails or whatnot. I am sure people will try to rationalise, I am sure the government will try to help them, but it becomes a lot harder.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721
    On whether Keir Starmer is...

    Trustworthy: 26% (-)
    Untrustworthy: 36% (+1)

    Likeable: 24% (-5)
    Dislikeable: 39% (+5)

    Decisive: 18% (-7)
    Indecisive: 48% (+9)

    Strong: 14% (-8)
    Weak: 47% (+11)

    Competent: 28% (-7)
    Incompetent: 35% (+7)

    Via @YouGov, 17 May (+/- since 22 Mar)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    alex_ said:

    RE: vaccinations. We still hear a lot (when people are bullish about our vaccination performance etc) about how which we have first dose vaccinated 70% of our adult population, we should remember that a large proportion of these are still not 'fully vaccinated'. This is on the assumption that whilst one dose gives temporary protection (and really that should be enough for any country imposing vaccine conditions for people in the "interim period"), you need the second dose for lasting protection (subject to 'booster' programmes in the autumn etc - which i think are more designed to target the possibility of future variants, so may not even be necessary.

    However what are the studies actually showing about the need for "second doses"? I'm not sure whether the requirement for these is based on scientific assumption, manufacturer assertions and/or basic vaccine technologies (why are Pfizer, AZ etc 2 dose regimes but J&J one dose for example?) or real world experience of second dose refuseniks.

    The latest PHE vaccine monitoring study showed Pfizer antibody count and efficacy falling from week 10 onwards after a single dose so it seems like Pfizer, at least, needs both doses.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,006
    The problem of the rest of the world was always going to come up. Its great that we have whipped our way so far through our vaccination programme. Until the places we want to go have done the same then we shouldn't be going there.

    International co-operation on a global pandemic was always the right approach. Sad then that we have seen so much protectionism and now the pandemic slaughtering people in poorer countries and still impacting onto richer countries like ours with no idea how to control their borders.

    To go back to the OP though, as the Cult of Boris is so embedded, I can't see how people not being able to go on holiday and losing their money and getting angry will do anything other than boost the government. Everything else does, especially the self-harm stuff. Why would this be different?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,050
    moonshine said:

    @foxy In Shanghai and Beijing you’d be fine in smart places. But really you just get the Google Translate App and that does it all for you with the camera for menus and speaker for drivers. Whether I’d personally recommend China? Some people like it. It’s a big old world out there and I can think of perhaps 150 countries I would rather go to than ever go back to China. Don’t let that stop you though, the Trans Siberian Railway does sound good.

    Yes, phone apps can be quite a boon.

    I was last in China in 1990 when it was still substantially unmodernised, and I cannot say that I particularly liked it. I do want to do the rail trip though and it seems sensible to take in a few of the more Northern cities. I was in Guangzou before, having caught the night ferry from Macau, which I did like.

    The pleasure of travel is in 3 parts: The planning, the doing and the reminiscing. I like to travel independently as have slightly eccentric interests* and I find that poring over maps and guide books planning is a good part of the pleasure.

    *strangely, Fox jr1 and 2 didn't want to take in the St Petersberg artillery museum when we were there for the World Cup 🙄
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited May 2021
    MaxPB said:

    alex_ said:

    RE: vaccinations. We still hear a lot (when people are bullish about our vaccination performance etc) about how which we have first dose vaccinated 70% of our adult population, we should remember that a large proportion of these are still not 'fully vaccinated'. This is on the assumption that whilst one dose gives temporary protection (and really that should be enough for any country imposing vaccine conditions for people in the "interim period"), you need the second dose for lasting protection (subject to 'booster' programmes in the autumn etc - which i think are more designed to target the possibility of future variants, so may not even be necessary.

    However what are the studies actually showing about the need for "second doses"? I'm not sure whether the requirement for these is based on scientific assumption, manufacturer assertions and/or basic vaccine technologies (why are Pfizer, AZ etc 2 dose regimes but J&J one dose for example?) or real world experience of second dose refuseniks.

    The latest PHE vaccine monitoring study showed Pfizer antibody count and efficacy falling from week 10 onwards after a single dose so it seems like Pfizer, at least, needs both doses.
    Thanks - and efficacy against infection (and/or transmission?) or efficacy against serious illness? One can presumably draw inferences from reducing antibody counts, but as i say i don't anything about vaccine technology - and how they are designed or otherwise (Pfizer vs J&J) to require 2 dose regimes. It is almost the case that 2 dose regimes prioritise near immediate protection whilst compromising longer term immunity, whilst 1 dose regimes are designed to increase protection (but at a slower rate) over time?

    I suppose it could be that the point of the Pfizer regime is that the first dose is designed to last several weeks - with the second dose (taken after say 3 weeks) then builds the immunity whilst the initial protection it still present. Which if so, does imply where the risk lay for the UK dosing strategy (for Pfizer)

    Which makes AZ an interesting case study - seeing as it appears to be a mix of the two.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    alex_ said:

    MaxPB said:

    alex_ said:

    RE: vaccinations. We still hear a lot (when people are bullish about our vaccination performance etc) about how which we have first dose vaccinated 70% of our adult population, we should remember that a large proportion of these are still not 'fully vaccinated'. This is on the assumption that whilst one dose gives temporary protection (and really that should be enough for any country imposing vaccine conditions for people in the "interim period"), you need the second dose for lasting protection (subject to 'booster' programmes in the autumn etc - which i think are more designed to target the possibility of future variants, so may not even be necessary.

    However what are the studies actually showing about the need for "second doses"? I'm not sure whether the requirement for these is based on scientific assumption, manufacturer assertions and/or basic vaccine technologies (why are Pfizer, AZ etc 2 dose regimes but J&J one dose for example?) or real world experience of second dose refuseniks.

    The latest PHE vaccine monitoring study showed Pfizer antibody count and efficacy falling from week 10 onwards after a single dose so it seems like Pfizer, at least, needs both doses.
    Thanks - but efficacy against infection (and/or transmission?) or efficacy against serious illness?
    Infection, serious illness wasn't listed. I guess because it's difficult to measure right now.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721

    alex_ said:

    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Yes, i really doubt there's much mileage for Labour in using Cummings as a star witness to Government incompetence and or mendacity. If anything his appearances help Johnson by reminding people that he's no longer in charge of anything!
    As long as it's just he said / he said, Johnson is in the clear. Nobody really likes Cummings, nobody really trusts him. We'd all rather believe Boris. Partly because we don't want to believe that we've put such a terrible man in No 10.

    Where it gets more interesting is if any of it is on the record. Emails or whatnot. I am sure people will try to rationalise, I am sure the government will try to help them, but it becomes a lot harder.
    Unfortunately for those who are now heavily invested in Cummings words leading to Boris’s downfall, they were the people who refused to believe a word he said in last summers statement over his Durham escapades. They’ve discredited their own witness before the trial
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    Foxy said:

    Good morning from a cloudy Essex. Hoping to be able to watch play at our local cricket club this afternoon, though. Ground drains well, and no rain is forecast.

    If rules on socialising holidays are not relaxed as expected, I doubt whether there will be a 'severe' backlash. Among those I mix with anyway; I suspect the reaction will be 'he's done his best, it's those others.'

    Grey, cloudy, damp in Devon - but at least the storm-force wind has abated.

    The garden looks a hell of a mess though. Twigs, branches and leaf debris everywhere.

    I may have to pay a man from the village a few shillings to do something about it...
    Edward Lear applies:
    "It is the duty of the wealthy man
    To give employment to the artisan."
    Hilare Belloc though wasn't it?
    Yes; thanks.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    ydoethur said:

    "nonsense over the amber list"?

    Green - you can go there

    Red - you can't go there

    Amber - well, you CAN go - but I wouldn't if I were you and don't come crying to us if your holibobs go tits up....

    It's about the return of taking personal responsibility.

    As much as the media wants to say "its so confusing" about being able to go to an amber country, but it not being recommended to do so - almost everyone surely understands instinctively that is what amber means.

    Red: Stop, Green: Go, Amber: You can go, but stop if its safe to do so and it could turn red.

    Even my four year old knows what the traffic light colours mean as she'll say what they mean from her booster seat whenever we reach the traffic lights!
    It’s basically the system the FO have used for travel advice for 40 years, tweaked for the pandemic.

    That said, I would have made all countries amber right now. Although vaccines mean there shouldn’t be a repeat of last summer where virus seeded from abroad scythed through reopened schools and unis, I would like to see most countries at our level of jabbing before flights resume.
    That's essentially what they did.

    Every country is amber by default, but then moved to green if the situation is good like ours, or red if especially bad.
    Although according to Germany we are on the naughty step
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    On topic - it's May. We have two more months of the vaccination program, here and abroad, before we reach the English school summer holidays. I imagine that many countries will move from the amber list to the green list as a result in that time.

    Sure, this might be frustrating for those without children who want to escape the currently dreadful British weather, but this will be felt less acutely when the warm air and high pressure builds at the end of next week. Go to Bath, Gower, St Ives, etc. A friend of mine is headed up to just north of Inverness for the week after next, and seems to have timed it perfectly for the weather.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    "nonsense over the amber list"?

    Green - you can go there

    Red - you can't go there

    Amber - well, you CAN go - but I wouldn't if I were you and don't come crying to us if your holibobs go tits up....

    It's about the return of taking personal responsibility.

    As much as the media wants to say "its so confusing" about being able to go to an amber country, but it not being recommended to do so - almost everyone surely understands instinctively that is what amber means.

    Red: Stop, Green: Go, Amber: You can go, but stop if its safe to do so and it could turn red.

    Even my four year old knows what the traffic light colours mean as she'll say what they mean from her booster seat whenever we reach the traffic lights!
    It’s basically the system the FO have used for travel advice for 40 years, tweaked for the pandemic.

    That said, I would have made all countries amber right now. Although vaccines mean there shouldn’t be a repeat of last summer where virus seeded from abroad scythed through reopened schools and unis, I would like to see most countries at our level of jabbing before flights resume.
    That's essentially what they did.

    Every country is amber by default, but then moved to green if the situation is good like ours, or red if especially bad.
    Although according to Germany we are on the naughty step
    Well they have got an election coming up...
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,006
    isam said:

    alex_ said:

    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Yes, i really doubt there's much mileage for Labour in using Cummings as a star witness to Government incompetence and or mendacity. If anything his appearances help Johnson by reminding people that he's no longer in charge of anything!
    As long as it's just he said / he said, Johnson is in the clear. Nobody really likes Cummings, nobody really trusts him. We'd all rather believe Boris. Partly because we don't want to believe that we've put such a terrible man in No 10.

    Where it gets more interesting is if any of it is on the record. Emails or whatnot. I am sure people will try to rationalise, I am sure the government will try to help them, but it becomes a lot harder.
    Unfortunately for those who are now heavily invested in Cummings words leading to Boris’s downfall, they were the people who refused to believe a word he said in last summers statement over his Durham escapades. They’ve discredited their own witness before the trial
    Depends on what he has. If he rocks up and swears on oath that he saw x,y and z then sorry mate we don't believe you. If he rocks up and pulls out of his bag documents and recordings proving x,y and z then that is different. The reason for the interest in his appearance is that he claims to have proof for the bodies piled high comments and other stuff.

    Hard to avoid hard evidence because you think the guy providing it is a bit dodgy. Especially if you are the same government who having hired him and then sent wave after wave of ministers on air to try to defend the Barnard Castle Eye Test are now sending wave after wave of ministers on air to decry him and all he has done and only a fool would believe him. Which is undoubtedly what will happen if Cummings produces.
  • andypetukandypetuk Posts: 69

    alex_ said:

    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Yes, i really doubt there's much mileage for Labour in using Cummings as a star witness to Government incompetence and or mendacity. If anything his appearances help Johnson by reminding people that he's no longer in charge of anything!
    As long as it's just he said / he said, Johnson is in the clear. Nobody really likes Cummings, nobody really trusts him. We'd all rather believe Boris. Partly because we don't want to believe that we've put such a terrible man in No 10.

    Where it gets more interesting is if any of it is on the record. Emails or whatnot. I am sure people will try to rationalise, I am sure the government will try to help them, but it becomes a lot harder.
    According to The Times article, the Government response will be, "We've set up a public enquiry to look into all this. Let's wait for the outcome of that."
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721
    edited May 2021

    isam said:

    alex_ said:

    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Yes, i really doubt there's much mileage for Labour in using Cummings as a star witness to Government incompetence and or mendacity. If anything his appearances help Johnson by reminding people that he's no longer in charge of anything!
    As long as it's just he said / he said, Johnson is in the clear. Nobody really likes Cummings, nobody really trusts him. We'd all rather believe Boris. Partly because we don't want to believe that we've put such a terrible man in No 10.

    Where it gets more interesting is if any of it is on the record. Emails or whatnot. I am sure people will try to rationalise, I am sure the government will try to help them, but it becomes a lot harder.
    Unfortunately for those who are now heavily invested in Cummings words leading to Boris’s downfall, they were the people who refused to believe a word he said in last summers statement over his Durham escapades. They’ve discredited their own witness before the trial
    Depends on what he has. If he rocks up and swears on oath that he saw x,y and z then sorry mate we don't believe you. If he rocks up and pulls out of his bag documents and recordings proving x,y and z then that is different. The reason for the interest in his appearance is that he claims to have proof for the bodies piled high comments and other stuff.

    Hard to avoid hard evidence because you think the guy providing it is a bit dodgy. Especially if you are the same government who having hired him and then sent wave after wave of ministers on air to try to defend the Barnard Castle Eye Test are now sending wave after wave of ministers on air to decry him and all he has done and only a fool would believe him. Which is undoubtedly what will happen if Cummings produces.
    Fingers crossed for you
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080
    Just passing the warships sitting off Portsmouth waiting to accompany the carrier off to war with China....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,050

    isam said:

    On whether Keir Starmer is...

    Trustworthy: 26% (-)
    Untrustworthy: 36% (+1)

    Likeable: 24% (-5)
    Dislikeable: 39% (+5)

    Decisive: 18% (-7)
    Indecisive: 48% (+9)

    Strong: 14% (-8)
    Weak: 47% (+11)

    Competent: 28% (-7)
    Incompetent: 35% (+7)

    Via @YouGov, 17 May (+/- since 22 Mar)

    I wonder how many of those changes to negatives were from Labour people?
    Most of them, I expect.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,555
    edited May 2021

    isam said:

    On whether Keir Starmer is...

    Trustworthy: 26% (-)
    Untrustworthy: 36% (+1)

    Likeable: 24% (-5)
    Dislikeable: 39% (+5)

    Decisive: 18% (-7)
    Indecisive: 48% (+9)

    Strong: 14% (-8)
    Weak: 47% (+11)

    Competent: 28% (-7)
    Incompetent: 35% (+7)

    Via @YouGov, 17 May (+/- since 22 Mar)

    I wonder how many of those changes to negatives were from Labour people?
    Who the hell are the 18% who think Starmer's decisive?
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060
    isam said:

    On whether Keir Starmer is...

    Trustworthy: 26% (-)
    Untrustworthy: 36% (+1)

    Likeable: 24% (-5)
    Dislikeable: 39% (+5)

    Decisive: 18% (-7)
    Indecisive: 48% (+9)

    Strong: 14% (-8)
    Weak: 47% (+11)

    Competent: 28% (-7)
    Incompetent: 35% (+7)

    Via @YouGov, 17 May (+/- since 22 Mar)

    That first category seems a bit harsh, particularly when compared to BJ. SKS is a lawyer and has a lawyer’s approach to the truth (never say anything which you know or think might be proved wrong by the other side) while BJ is a journalist and writer of fiction with the approach to the truth of those professions.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,555
    moonshine said:

    @foxy In Shanghai and Beijing you’d be fine in smart places. But really you just get the Google Translate App and that does it all for you with the camera for menus and speaker for drivers. Whether I’d personally recommend China? Some people like it. It’s a big old world out there and I can think of perhaps 150 countries I would rather go to than ever go back to China. Don’t let that stop you though, the Trans Siberian Railway does sound good.

    Hong Kong is amazing, but yes mainland China isn't somewhere I really want to go back to. SE Asia is much more charming, as long as you're there in our winter.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721
    isam said:

    On whether Keir Starmer is...

    Trustworthy: 26% (-)
    Untrustworthy: 36% (+1)

    Likeable: 24% (-5)
    Dislikeable: 39% (+5)

    Decisive: 18% (-7)
    Indecisive: 48% (+9)

    Strong: 14% (-8)
    Weak: 47% (+11)

    Competent: 28% (-7)
    Incompetent: 35% (+7)

    Via @YouGov, 17 May (+/- since 22 Mar)

    On whether Boris Johnson is...

    Trustworthy: 25% (-5)
    Untrustworthy: 55% (+3)

    Likeable: 49% (-)
    Dislikeable: 36% (-1)

    Decisive: 26% (-2)
    Indecisive: 61% (-)

    Strong: 39% (+2)
    Weak: 41% (-4)

    Competent: 38% (-1)
    Incompetent: 45% (-4)

    Via @YouGov, 17 May (+/- since 22 Mar)

    Boris wins on all bar one of the gross positives, but Sir Keir is rated as more trustworthy and decisive in net terms.

    ‘Likeable’ though... oof. Sir Keir’s remake of The Office better be good
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    The limiting factor for me on foreign travel this summer is not the cost, the quarantine, the testing but the airport. They are grim places full of the overly stressed turning into idiots at the best of times, but 6 hour queues wearing a mask, no thanks.

    I'd expect the airports continue to struggle all summer as each time they fix the current problem, additional countries will get moved to the green lists and the airports wont keep up with capacity changes.

    I normally love airports so I guess my starting point is to ask if you normally dislike them?

    The shops are open again and I think things will start running more smoothly. Red Terminal 3 is a very good starting point for making it less stressful.

    Mind you, I'm a business traveller so I always use business lounges which makes the whole experience very pleasant.
    Bearable rather than pleasant surely?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 2021

    alex_ said:

    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Yes, i really doubt there's much mileage for Labour in using Cummings as a star witness to Government incompetence and or mendacity. If anything his appearances help Johnson by reminding people that he's no longer in charge of anything!
    As long as it's just he said / he said, Johnson is in the clear. Nobody really likes Cummings, nobody really trusts him. We'd all rather believe Boris. Partly because we don't want to believe that we've put such a terrible man in No 10.

    Where it gets more interesting is if any of it is on the record. Emails or whatnot. I am sure people will try to rationalise, I am sure the government will try to help them, but it becomes a lot harder.
    You really think anyone who's not already in the anti-Boris camp is going to care? What will you have left when your trump card of 'Public Trust in Dominic Cummings' (!) turns out, shockingly, to be a dud?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Covid anecdote of the day 2

    Believe in personal freedom for the vaccinated?

    Hold your phone up to the QR Track & Trace scanner and proceed. No one ever checks if you actually have the App installed .... ;) It's a ruse which is doing the rounds as I heard it from three separate people on Wednesday. And it works.

    Or so I'm, cough, told.

    I do the paper thing - no one ever follows up and the data goes nowhere
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,006
    isam said:

    isam said:

    alex_ said:

    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Yes, i really doubt there's much mileage for Labour in using Cummings as a star witness to Government incompetence and or mendacity. If anything his appearances help Johnson by reminding people that he's no longer in charge of anything!
    As long as it's just he said / he said, Johnson is in the clear. Nobody really likes Cummings, nobody really trusts him. We'd all rather believe Boris. Partly because we don't want to believe that we've put such a terrible man in No 10.

    Where it gets more interesting is if any of it is on the record. Emails or whatnot. I am sure people will try to rationalise, I am sure the government will try to help them, but it becomes a lot harder.
    Unfortunately for those who are now heavily invested in Cummings words leading to Boris’s downfall, they were the people who refused to believe a word he said in last summers statement over his Durham escapades. They’ve discredited their own witness before the trial
    Depends on what he has. If he rocks up and swears on oath that he saw x,y and z then sorry mate we don't believe you. If he rocks up and pulls out of his bag documents and recordings proving x,y and z then that is different. The reason for the interest in his appearance is that he claims to have proof for the bodies piled high comments and other stuff.

    Hard to avoid hard evidence because you think the guy providing it is a bit dodgy. Especially if you are the same government who having hired him and then sent wave after wave of ministers on air to try to defend the Barnard Castle Eye Test are now sending wave after wave of ministers on air to decry him and all he has done and only a fool would believe him. Which is undoubtedly what will happen if Cummings produces.
    Fingers crossed for you
    I don't care either way. I moved to Scotland so the Cult of Boris doesn't directly affect me any more. I just think it would be very funny if Cummings produces all of the stuff that people have insisted absolutely didn't happen. Hubris often leads to Nemesis.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    isam said:

    isam said:

    alex_ said:

    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Yes, i really doubt there's much mileage for Labour in using Cummings as a star witness to Government incompetence and or mendacity. If anything his appearances help Johnson by reminding people that he's no longer in charge of anything!
    As long as it's just he said / he said, Johnson is in the clear. Nobody really likes Cummings, nobody really trusts him. We'd all rather believe Boris. Partly because we don't want to believe that we've put such a terrible man in No 10.

    Where it gets more interesting is if any of it is on the record. Emails or whatnot. I am sure people will try to rationalise, I am sure the government will try to help them, but it becomes a lot harder.
    Unfortunately for those who are now heavily invested in Cummings words leading to Boris’s downfall, they were the people who refused to believe a word he said in last summers statement over his Durham escapades. They’ve discredited their own witness before the trial
    Depends on what he has. If he rocks up and swears on oath that he saw x,y and z then sorry mate we don't believe you. If he rocks up and pulls out of his bag documents and recordings proving x,y and z then that is different. The reason for the interest in his appearance is that he claims to have proof for the bodies piled high comments and other stuff.

    Hard to avoid hard evidence because you think the guy providing it is a bit dodgy. Especially if you are the same government who having hired him and then sent wave after wave of ministers on air to try to defend the Barnard Castle Eye Test are now sending wave after wave of ministers on air to decry him and all he has done and only a fool would believe him. Which is undoubtedly what will happen if Cummings produces.
    Fingers crossed for you
    I don't care either way. I moved to Scotland so the Cult of Boris doesn't directly affect me any more. I just think it would be very funny if Cummings produces all of the stuff that people have insisted absolutely didn't happen. Hubris often leads to Nemesis.
    If you didn't spent every waking moment thinking about Boris I'd be inclined to believe this. As it stands, lol.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721

    isam said:

    On whether Keir Starmer is...

    Trustworthy: 26% (-)
    Untrustworthy: 36% (+1)

    Likeable: 24% (-5)
    Dislikeable: 39% (+5)

    Decisive: 18% (-7)
    Indecisive: 48% (+9)

    Strong: 14% (-8)
    Weak: 47% (+11)

    Competent: 28% (-7)
    Incompetent: 35% (+7)

    Via @YouGov, 17 May (+/- since 22 Mar)

    That first category seems a bit harsh, particularly when compared to BJ. SKS is a lawyer and has a lawyer’s approach to the truth (never say anything which you know or think might be proved wrong by the other side) while BJ is a journalist and writer of fiction with the approach to the truth of those professions.
    Yes. Really I always come to the same conclusion when I look at Sir Keir’s ratings. People say ‘once you get to know him’ or ‘in real life’ he is charismatic, and that his lawyerly manner hides this and that, but he was just the wrong choice for the job. You need charisma, likeability and charm to sell your ideas successfully, or failing those, passion and righteous anger - and he just doesn’t have any of those qualities.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    Standard moaning pensioner leader.

    The people currently waiting for their jabs have actually lost a year of the best time of their lives being locked up to protect pensioners, and yet once again the most selfish generation in history thinks they're the victims.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    So having spent the last year complaining that lockdowns weren't introduced quickly enough Mike is now complaining that oldies aren't allowed to go on foreign holidays.
  • EmptyNesterEmptyNester Posts: 91
    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    @foxy In Shanghai and Beijing you’d be fine in smart places. But really you just get the Google Translate App and that does it all for you with the camera for menus and speaker for drivers. Whether I’d personally recommend China? Some people like it. It’s a big old world out there and I can think of perhaps 150 countries I would rather go to than ever go back to China. Don’t let that stop you though, the Trans Siberian Railway does sound good.

    Yes, phone apps can be quite a boon.

    I was last in China in 1990 when it was still substantially unmodernised, and I cannot say that I particularly liked it. I do want to do the rail trip though and it seems sensible to take in a few of the more Northern cities. I was in Guangzou before, having caught the night ferry from Macau, which I did like.

    The pleasure of travel is in 3 parts: The planning, the doing and the reminiscing. I like to travel independently as have slightly eccentric interests* and I find that poring over maps and guide books planning is a good part of the pleasure.

    *strangely, Fox jr1 and 2 didn't want to take in the St Petersberg artillery museum when we were there for the World Cup 🙄
    Make sure you have your passport with you at all times. We were approached by police in Xian, ostensibly to warn us about pickpockets, but they asked to see our passports before wishing us a good day. By good fortune we had them with us.
    We booked everything apart from train tickets from the UK and printed out hotel details to show taxi drivers.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Interesting. A relative has apparently had a letter today about a hospital appt in the autumn that was scheduled to be telephone has now been changed to face-to-face.

    Good news. NHS starting to accept that this plague is finally coming to an end?
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721
    maaarsh said:

    Standard moaning pensioner leader.

    The people currently waiting for their jabs have actually lost a year of the best time of their lives being locked up to protect pensioners, and yet once again the most selfish generation in history thinks they're the victims.

    So having spent the last year complaining that lockdowns weren't introduced quickly enough Mike is now complaining that oldies aren't allowed to go on foreign holidays.

    The scattergun approach - There just has to be an angle to get at the man who made Brexit happen
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    alex_ said:

    "nonsense over the amber list"?

    Green - you can go there

    Red - you can't go there

    Amber - well, you CAN go - but I wouldn't if I were you and don't come crying to us if your holibobs go tits up....

    It's about the return of taking personal responsibility.

    Had the message for all the amber countries always been what you say then great! But the government (or are they now just a range of tits in job-titled jackets?) have been banging on and on about unlocking and holidays with stories fed to their client press wapping great big page 1 leads about it.

    What makes it even stupider is that we create a green list that includes countries you CANNOT travel to like Singapore. Surely a basic requirement of a green status is that you can actually travel there.
    I suppose one could point out that whilst might reasonably conclude otherwise from the presentation and media reporting, for most of this pandemic Government guidance hasn't been targeted at the British - but at those who might want to come here from abroad.

    Hence the majority of measures being about what you could/should do on arrival, not the requirements on departure. One could be forgiven for thinking that impact on holidays, and ability (or not) of people to go on them has often just been a derivative consequence.

    And if you think about it, some of the requirements to leave the country make no sense. Why should the British government have (or had?) a requirement for people to have negative COVID tests prior to departure? (I think that's correct - apologies if wrong). If the fear is of people catching/bringing in variants from abroad, then whether you have the virus on departure is really pretty irrelevant.
    It provides a baseline
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,080
    edited May 2021
    Nice provocative header.

    Not sure what the A&M votes will say; I say that those of us old enough to have had both jabs need to show some solidarity with the young 'uns who haven't had one jab yet. It is only a few weeks more to hold international travel, and things are opening up in the UK rapidly.

    The radio seems to be filled with commentators whining their heads off, like tantrumming 7 year olds demanding jam.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Ironic than an 18 point lead is no longer headline news…
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,442
    isam said:

    alex_ said:

    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Yes, i really doubt there's much mileage for Labour in using Cummings as a star witness to Government incompetence and or mendacity. If anything his appearances help Johnson by reminding people that he's no longer in charge of anything!
    As long as it's just he said / he said, Johnson is in the clear. Nobody really likes Cummings, nobody really trusts him. We'd all rather believe Boris. Partly because we don't want to believe that we've put such a terrible man in No 10.

    Where it gets more interesting is if any of it is on the record. Emails or whatnot. I am sure people will try to rationalise, I am sure the government will try to help them, but it becomes a lot harder.
    Unfortunately for those who are now heavily invested in Cummings words leading to Boris’s downfall, they were the people who refused to believe a word he said in last summers statement over his Durham escapades. They’ve discredited their own witness before the trial
    Cummings is an untrustworthy egomaniac who thrives on division and intrigue (a bit like the PM), so of course him saying something shouldn't be assumed true without verification. No problem with that even if I would like to see the end of this govt.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    IanB2 said:

    Just passing the warships sitting off Portsmouth waiting to accompany the carrier off to war with China....

    I could imagine the Chinese would love to "accidentally" torpedo the carrier, if they could arrange it to happen without taking the blame. Or else dredge up a sandbank for it to run aground on.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721
    edited May 2021
    Eight years today

    RIP Lee Rigby


    I remember well on here Tim furiously condemning people who heard reports the perpetrators were Somalian. The truth was much worse - two British men decapitating a British soldier for the our actions in Islamic countries
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,442
    Cyclefree said:

    I have little sympathy with people whining about foreign holidays while there are still domestic restrictions in place, restrictions which are affecting peoples' jobs and livelihoods.

    Foreign travel can wait until domestic restrictions have gone. I have a very close friend whom I have not seen in the flesh since 8 February last year coming to stay in July. I can hardly wait. I don't care if we are walking up Black Combe in hail, thunder and lightning. We will be together and able to hug!

    Also tentatively planning to see some other close friends in Glasgow and then go exploring round there. If any Scottish PB'ers have tips for places to visit, please pass them on. I have had quite a few hols in Scotland in the past but not recently. It's only 80 miles to the border from here.

    Sympathy and understanding is often in short supply in a crisis. You can hardly wait to see your close friend, people with international families have not seen close family for 18 months.

    The restrictions on foreign travel are currently necessary and appropriate but it is hardly surprising many are complaining about them, and there is nothing wrong with a bit of sympathy for those, whilst still telling them, no.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Cyclefree said:

    I have little sympathy with people whining about foreign holidays while there are still domestic restrictions in place, restrictions which are affecting peoples' jobs and livelihoods.

    Foreign travel can wait until domestic restrictions have gone. I have a very close friend whom I have not seen in the flesh since 8 February last year coming to stay in July. I can hardly wait. I don't care if we are walking up Black Combe in hail, thunder and lightning. We will be together and able to hug!

    Also tentatively planning to see some other close friends in Glasgow and then go exploring round there. If any Scottish PB'ers have tips for places to visit, please pass them on. I have had quite a few hols in Scotland in the past but not recently. It's only 80 miles to the border from here.

    How's the pub reopening going? @Cyclefree
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,456
    A while ago I volunteered for vaccine trials (I have volunteered for a number of various medical trials in the past). Last week I got an email asking me to take part.

    If under 30 you get the VLA2001 vaccine (whatever that is)
    If over 30 2/3 will get it and 1/3 the standard AZ vaccine.

    Trouble is amongst the various conditions is you must not have received a vaccine so far, which counts me (and I guess a huge number of volunteers) out.

    Shame. I enjoy doing these.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    edited May 2021
    MattW said:

    Nice provocative header.

    Not sure what the A&M votes will say; I say that those of us old enough to have had both jabs need to show some solidarity with the young 'uns who haven't had one jab yet. It is only a few weeks.

    Those commentators whining their heads off need to stop behaving like tantrumming 7 year olds demanding jam.

    Agree; were were working out this morning whether Eldest Grandson and his wife would be getting their jabs soon, but they're both 30, so not yet.
    Our chief family concerns ATM are
    1. Whether Younger Grandson will a) get the Uni place he wants and b) get a 'proper' Uni experience.

    2. Whether Elder Son, having been 'let go' by his employers after almost 30 years, will put together a reasonable portfolio of consultancies so that he'll be kept busy.

    3. Whether Younger Son will keep his portfolio of consultancies and part-time jobs going satisfactorily. That has, admittedly, been a concern for some 15 years, and he usually seems to manage it.

    Holidays abroad come a long way down the list!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,080

    alex_ said:

    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Yes, i really doubt there's much mileage for Labour in using Cummings as a star witness to Government incompetence and or mendacity. If anything his appearances help Johnson by reminding people that he's no longer in charge of anything!
    As long as it's just he said / he said, Johnson is in the clear. Nobody really likes Cummings, nobody really trusts him. We'd all rather believe Boris. Partly because we don't want to believe that we've put such a terrible man in No 10.

    Where it gets more interesting is if any of it is on the record. Emails or whatnot. I am sure people will try to rationalise, I am sure the government will try to help them, but it becomes a lot harder.
    You really think anyone who's not already in the anti-Boris camp is going to care? What will you have left when your trump card of 'Public Trust in Dominic Cummings' (!) turns out, shockingly, to be a dud?
    Look, I don't trust or like D Cummings Esq. I'm a teacher- of course I don't trust him.

    And as I've said, this only gets interesting if Dom has kept something egregious, unambiguous and undeniable, even by Boris. That probably means on paper, tape or email, in the PM's hand.

    Does such a thing exist? I don't know. But allow me a small measure of amusement in the way that those who contorted themselves to defend Dominic last summer are condemning him now.

    But then again, he was always a jumped up northern oik, wasn't he? Useful, like the bloke who comes to clean the drains. Not actually anyone who matters...
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721

    alex_ said:

    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Yes, i really doubt there's much mileage for Labour in using Cummings as a star witness to Government incompetence and or mendacity. If anything his appearances help Johnson by reminding people that he's no longer in charge of anything!
    As long as it's just he said / he said, Johnson is in the clear. Nobody really likes Cummings, nobody really trusts him. We'd all rather believe Boris. Partly because we don't want to believe that we've put such a terrible man in No 10.

    Where it gets more interesting is if any of it is on the record. Emails or whatnot. I am sure people will try to rationalise, I am sure the government will try to help them, but it becomes a lot harder.
    You really think anyone who's not already in the anti-Boris camp is going to care? What will you have left when your trump card of 'Public Trust in Dominic Cummings' (!) turns out, shockingly, to be a dud?
    Look, I don't trust or like D Cummings Esq. I'm a teacher- of course I don't trust him.

    And as I've said, this only gets interesting if Dom has kept something egregious, unambiguous and undeniable, even by Boris. That probably means on paper, tape or email, in the PM's hand.

    Does such a thing exist? I don't know. But allow me a small measure of amusement in the way that those who contorted themselves to defend Dominic last summer are condemning him now.

    But then again, he was always a jumped up northern oik, wasn't he? Useful, like the bloke who comes to clean the drains. Not actually anyone who matters...
    “ But allow me a small measure of amusement in the way that those who contorted themselves to defend Dominic last summer are condemning him now.”

    Haha!!! If ever something cut both ways!!!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,080
    Brains Trust:

    Does anyone have any experience / anecdata yet as to how border checks are bedding in post-Brexit for entry to or exit from UK?

    This is one subject the G is currently having kittens about:
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/14/hostile-uk-border-regime-traumatises-visitors-from-eu
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/21/uk-like-an-enemy-state-to-eu-nationals-detained-by-border-force
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,727
    Rangers FC start legal proceedings against “certain individuals” - believed to include senior SNP politician Humza Yousaf - after police cleared players of using sectarian language during title celebrations.
    https://bit.ly/3hM702U
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,753
    Very hard to disagree with this. Those dying with Covid are now down to single figures in a country of 68m. Those having to attend hospital are getting close to the number who are there because they have injured themselves with their dishwasher. The pressure on the NHS is entirely from the backlog and frankly unnecessary restrictions are causing more pressure than Covid.

    The fantastic success of our vaccination program means that we could come out of this nightmare 3 months earlier than almost anyone else. It was an incredible gift and so far we have squandered about 2/3 of it. Let the people go Boris.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,708
    Until the majority of the country have had both their first and second jabs then it makes sense for Boris to restrict quarantine free travel only to a handful of countries on the green list. By mid summer hopefully over 50% of the adult population will have had their first and second jabs by which time quarantine for travel to amber list countries can also be removed and travel bans and hotel quarantine just restricted to travel to and from red list countries with mutant variants.

    Reform UK are standing in Chesham and Amersham though on an anti Covid restrictions ticket
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,555
    edited May 2021
    Cyclefree said:

    I have little sympathy with people whining about foreign holidays while there are still domestic restrictions in place, restrictions which are affecting peoples' jobs and livelihoods.

    Eh? That is a bizarre point. The travel restrictions affect lots of people's livelihoods too.

    See here:

    https://simpleflying.com/british-airways-faces-10000-staff-redundancies-amid-covid-19/
    https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/11/heathrow-airport-makes-voluntary-redundancies-cannot-rule-cuts-12838842/
    https://employeebenefits.co.uk/heathrow-airport-introduces-pay-cuts/

    People whose daughters work in the travel industry are just as concerned as those who worked in the hospitality industry were.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,442
    kjh said:

    A while ago I volunteered for vaccine trials (I have volunteered for a number of various medical trials in the past). Last week I got an email asking me to take part.

    If under 30 you get the VLA2001 vaccine (whatever that is)
    If over 30 2/3 will get it and 1/3 the standard AZ vaccine.

    Trouble is amongst the various conditions is you must not have received a vaccine so far, which counts me (and I guess a huge number of volunteers) out.

    Shame. I enjoy doing these.

    The pool of refused vaccine but willing to take part in a trial must be pretty tiny!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    MaxPB said:

    alex_ said:

    MaxPB said:

    "nonsense over the amber list"?

    Green - you can go there

    Red - you can't go there

    Amber - well, you CAN go - but I wouldn't if I were you and don't come crying to us if your holibobs go tits up....

    It's about the return of taking personal responsibility.

    Had the message for all the amber countries always been what you say then great! But the government (or are they now just a range of tits in job-titled jackets?) have been banging on and on about unlocking and holidays with stories fed to their client press wapping great big page 1 leads about it.

    What makes it even stupider is that we create a green list that includes countries you CANNOT travel to like Singapore. Surely a basic requirement of a green status is that you can actually travel there.
    Not really, the list system is for incoming travellers. It's not necessarily about coming back, it is just about coming to the UK.

    Take the example of a long term resident in Singapore who is a British citizen, they can now come to the UK with few checks and then fly back to Singapore as they are a long term resident.

    Eventually the UK will be added to other green lists because our vaccine programme is advancing very rapidly. I know for sure that a lot of East Asian countries have got the UK pencilled in for green listing. We've been told that resuming business flying to Japan is weeks away rather than months now and that's based on the Japanese government green listing UK vaccinated arrivals.
    Just a shame that Japan will be heading in the other direction on the UK list...
    Indeed, the vaccine rate there is pathetic.
    I note they just pulled their finger out and approved AZN and Moderna, so it might improve a bit.
    Not sure the Olympics is a good idea, though.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,080
    isam said:

    alex_ said:

    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Yes, i really doubt there's much mileage for Labour in using Cummings as a star witness to Government incompetence and or mendacity. If anything his appearances help Johnson by reminding people that he's no longer in charge of anything!
    As long as it's just he said / he said, Johnson is in the clear. Nobody really likes Cummings, nobody really trusts him. We'd all rather believe Boris. Partly because we don't want to believe that we've put such a terrible man in No 10.

    Where it gets more interesting is if any of it is on the record. Emails or whatnot. I am sure people will try to rationalise, I am sure the government will try to help them, but it becomes a lot harder.
    You really think anyone who's not already in the anti-Boris camp is going to care? What will you have left when your trump card of 'Public Trust in Dominic Cummings' (!) turns out, shockingly, to be a dud?
    Look, I don't trust or like D Cummings Esq. I'm a teacher- of course I don't trust him.

    And as I've said, this only gets interesting if Dom has kept something egregious, unambiguous and undeniable, even by Boris. That probably means on paper, tape or email, in the PM's hand.

    Does such a thing exist? I don't know. But allow me a small measure of amusement in the way that those who contorted themselves to defend Dominic last summer are condemning him now.

    But then again, he was always a jumped up northern oik, wasn't he? Useful, like the bloke who comes to clean the drains. Not actually anyone who matters...
    “ But allow me a small measure of amusement in the way that those who contorted themselves to defend Dominic last summer are condemning him now.”

    Haha!!! If ever something cut both ways!!!
    To an extent yes. Though it's also a matter of degree. Consider the difference between

    If it's he said/he said, Johnson is in the clear. If Dom has kept the metaphorical tapes, it might get interesting.

    And

    You really think anyone who's not already in the anti-Boris camp is going to care?

    For example.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,729
    Scott_xP said:

    Rangers FC start legal proceedings against “certain individuals” - believed to include senior SNP politician Humza Yousaf - after police cleared players of using sectarian language during title celebrations.
    https://bit.ly/3hM702U

    If Humza Yousaf appears in court, will any advocate be willing to appear for him?

    Or will an advocate take it and deliberately bugger up his defence?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,708
    edited May 2021
    Foxy said:

    I see the Unionist vote in NI is increasingly split 3 ways. Could make for an interesting election next year, with the DUP not in the top 2.

    https://twitter.com/SuzyJourno/status/1395997752916643843?s=19

    Interestingly the biggest gainers on that new Northern Ireland poll are the Ulster Unionist Party, up 2% on the last poll under their new leader Doug Beattie, making gains from the Alliance who are down 2% and the DUP who are down 3% (the DUP and Alliance now tied for second). Traditional Unionist Voice are also up 1% to 11% again at the DUP's expense. So Poots clearly has to harden his rhetoric on the Irish Sea border or he will not win back any hardline DUP voters lost to TUV to make up for the moderate DUP voters he has lost to the UUP since replacing Foster as DUP leader.

    On the Nationalist side, Sinn Fein are up 1% and remain in first place, taking 1% from the SDLP who are down 1% on the last poll
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    Thanks for the header, Mike.

    Personally I count protection against a nasty death a significant benefit in itself. I've no problem waiting for wider freedoms until all adults have had a chance to be protected.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,729

    isam said:

    alex_ said:

    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Yes, i really doubt there's much mileage for Labour in using Cummings as a star witness to Government incompetence and or mendacity. If anything his appearances help Johnson by reminding people that he's no longer in charge of anything!
    As long as it's just he said / he said, Johnson is in the clear. Nobody really likes Cummings, nobody really trusts him. We'd all rather believe Boris. Partly because we don't want to believe that we've put such a terrible man in No 10.

    Where it gets more interesting is if any of it is on the record. Emails or whatnot. I am sure people will try to rationalise, I am sure the government will try to help them, but it becomes a lot harder.
    Unfortunately for those who are now heavily invested in Cummings words leading to Boris’s downfall, they were the people who refused to believe a word he said in last summers statement over his Durham escapades. They’ve discredited their own witness before the trial
    Cummings is an untrustworthy egomaniac who thrives on division and intrigue (a bit like the PM), so of course him saying something shouldn't be assumed true without verification. No problem with that even if I would like to see the end of this govt.
    I’m amazed and appalled at this poll. 14% think Cummings is trustworthy?

    I’m not sure psychiatric services will be able to cope with the pressure.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926

    IanB2 said:

    Just passing the warships sitting off Portsmouth waiting to accompany the carrier off to war with China....

    I could imagine the Chinese would love to "accidentally" torpedo the carrier, if they could arrange it to happen without taking the blame. Or else dredge up a sandbank for it to run aground on.
    More likely a Chinese submarine will get close to see what the carrier looks and sounds like – elint or electronic intelligence – and just to see if it can. Famously, a few years ago the US Navy was caught unawares when a Chinese submarine surfaced in the middle of a carrier battle group, the whole point of which is to defend the carrier from submarine attack.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    Cyclefree said:

    I have little sympathy with people whining about foreign holidays while there are still domestic restrictions in place, restrictions which are affecting peoples' jobs and livelihoods.

    Foreign travel can wait until domestic restrictions have gone. I have a very close friend whom I have not seen in the flesh since 8 February last year coming to stay in July. I can hardly wait. I don't care if we are walking up Black Combe in hail, thunder and lightning. We will be together and able to hug!

    Also tentatively planning to see some other close friends in Glasgow and then go exploring round there. If any Scottish PB'ers have tips for places to visit, please pass them on. I have had quite a few hols in Scotland in the past but not recently. It's only 80 miles to the border from here.

    Glasgow still in level 3 (no indoor drinking in pubs or restaurants) so delaying your visit for a couple of weeks might be sensible if you can. Kelvingrove Museum & Gallery is worth a visit if you've never been, tickets have to be booked in advance as is the case with all museums at the moment I think. Kelvingrove Park in which it's situated is nice just for a wander, and lots of bars, restaurants and shopping in the vicinity. Finnieston also nearby was the most hipster place to go for eating/drinking two or three years ago but its crown may have slipped (tho Covid has probably screwed that sort of thing up anyway). The Barras market is good for a slice of the rougher end of Glasgow with added bric-a-brac.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880

    IanB2 said:

    Just passing the warships sitting off Portsmouth waiting to accompany the carrier off to war with China....

    I could imagine the Chinese would love to "accidentally" torpedo the carrier, if they could arrange it to happen without taking the blame. Or else dredge up a sandbank for it to run aground on.
    There is absolutely no way they are going to risk the carrier with a US/Australian style FONOP within 12 miles of one of ChiCom military installations on the Great Wall of Sand like Mischief Reef.

    Photo op in front of Sydney Harbour Bridge still counts as an 'EASTPAC' cruise!
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 2021

    alex_ said:

    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Yes, i really doubt there's much mileage for Labour in using Cummings as a star witness to Government incompetence and or mendacity. If anything his appearances help Johnson by reminding people that he's no longer in charge of anything!
    As long as it's just he said / he said, Johnson is in the clear. Nobody really likes Cummings, nobody really trusts him. We'd all rather believe Boris. Partly because we don't want to believe that we've put such a terrible man in No 10.

    Where it gets more interesting is if any of it is on the record. Emails or whatnot. I am sure people will try to rationalise, I am sure the government will try to help them, but it becomes a lot harder.
    You really think anyone who's not already in the anti-Boris camp is going to care? What will you have left when your trump card of 'Public Trust in Dominic Cummings' (!) turns out, shockingly, to be a dud?
    Look, I don't trust or like D Cummings Esq. I'm a teacher- of course I don't trust him.

    And as I've said, this only gets interesting if Dom has kept something egregious, unambiguous and undeniable, even by Boris. That probably means on paper, tape or email, in the PM's hand.

    Does such a thing exist? I don't know. But allow me a small measure of amusement in the way that those who contorted themselves to defend Dominic last summer are condemning him now.

    But then again, he was always a jumped up northern oik, wasn't he? Useful, like the bloke who comes to clean the drains. Not actually anyone who matters...
    It's even more ironically amusing that those who cheered every minute of a months-long media and political campaign to destroy Cummings' credibility - hoping to damage Boris though him - are now completely reliant upon that annihilated credibility in their increasingly-forlorn hope of trying to damage Boris through him. Oops!

    The other thing you have to consider is the decreased emotional potency of Boris having been reticent about lockdowns in the past. I'm one of the more pro-lockdown people on this site, and even I'm sick of them and am looking forward to freedom and normality as much as anyone. In that national context - a surge of joy at our imminent release from captivity - getting angry about delays in locking down last year requires people to make the effort of retrojecting themselves not only intellectually but emotionally. And that, I suspect, will blunt the impact of any 'Boris likes to bite the heads off live chickens'-type evidence Cummings might wish to offer.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited May 2021
    Ed Miliband: I was 50 when I finally mastered the art of riding a bike

    ...but at least I tried....
  • isamisam Posts: 40,721

    isam said:

    alex_ said:

    andypetuk said:

    Brom said:

    I haven’t seen the Yougov data published but an 18 point Tory lead would be the biggest in over a year.

    For those of us who missed it, where did this amazing snippet come from? And when? Any links?
    It's mentioned in passing in The Times towards the end of an article about Dominic Cummings being ready to "napalm" PM over lockdown hesitancy.

    Only details are 18 point lead over Labour, and that Cummings is less trusted to tell the truth than Johnson (14% v 38%).
    Yes, i really doubt there's much mileage for Labour in using Cummings as a star witness to Government incompetence and or mendacity. If anything his appearances help Johnson by reminding people that he's no longer in charge of anything!
    As long as it's just he said / he said, Johnson is in the clear. Nobody really likes Cummings, nobody really trusts him. We'd all rather believe Boris. Partly because we don't want to believe that we've put such a terrible man in No 10.

    Where it gets more interesting is if any of it is on the record. Emails or whatnot. I am sure people will try to rationalise, I am sure the government will try to help them, but it becomes a lot harder.
    You really think anyone who's not already in the anti-Boris camp is going to care? What will you have left when your trump card of 'Public Trust in Dominic Cummings' (!) turns out, shockingly, to be a dud?
    Look, I don't trust or like D Cummings Esq. I'm a teacher- of course I don't trust him.

    And as I've said, this only gets interesting if Dom has kept something egregious, unambiguous and undeniable, even by Boris. That probably means on paper, tape or email, in the PM's hand.

    Does such a thing exist? I don't know. But allow me a small measure of amusement in the way that those who contorted themselves to defend Dominic last summer are condemning him now.

    But then again, he was always a jumped up northern oik, wasn't he? Useful, like the bloke who comes to clean the drains. Not actually anyone who matters...
    “ But allow me a small measure of amusement in the way that those who contorted themselves to defend Dominic last summer are condemning him now.”

    Haha!!! If ever something cut both ways!!!
    To an extent yes. Though it's also a matter of degree. Consider the difference between

    If it's he said/he said, Johnson is in the clear. If Dom has kept the metaphorical tapes, it might get interesting.

    And

    You really think anyone who's not already in the anti-Boris camp is going to care?

    For example.
    If Cummings has a tape of Boris saying ‘I’d rather let the bodies pile up high than go into a 3rd lockdown’ ?

    So what? It’s how many people thought, and he did go into the 3rd lockdown anyway. So I don’t think it will cut through even if he FaceTimed Boris saying it
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164

    Ed Miliband: I was 50 when I finally mastered the art of riding a bike

    ...but at least I tried....

    He should have called up the press to capture the historic moment.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Fishing said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I have little sympathy with people whining about foreign holidays while there are still domestic restrictions in place, restrictions which are affecting peoples' jobs and livelihoods.

    Eh? That is a bizarre point. The travel restrictions affect lots of people's livelihoods too.

    See here:

    https://simpleflying.com/british-airways-faces-10000-staff-redundancies-amid-covid-19/
    https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/11/heathrow-airport-makes-voluntary-redundancies-cannot-rule-cuts-12838842/
    https://employeebenefits.co.uk/heathrow-airport-introduces-pay-cuts/

    People whose daughters work in the travel industry are just as concerned as those who worked in the hospitality industry were.
    Yes - that is a fair point. That sector should continue to be supported until restrictions can safely be lifted.

    I just don't like the selfishness of those wanting to go on holiday abroad and risk reimporting the virus when we have yet to vaccinate everyone here and lift domestic restrictions.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,753
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rangers FC start legal proceedings against “certain individuals” - believed to include senior SNP politician Humza Yousaf - after police cleared players of using sectarian language during title celebrations.
    https://bit.ly/3hM702U

    If Humza Yousaf appears in court, will any advocate be willing to appear for him?

    Or will an advocate take it and deliberately bugger up his defence?
    Advocates appear every day for people even more annoying and repulsive than Mr Yousaf, hard though that is to imagine.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926
    ydoethur said:

    Good piece @MikeSmithson

    You mention the trio of ministers, but don't mention Gove. But all the in-depth pieces I see keep bringing his name up as the senior minister most pushing the 'lockdown everyone all the time' agenda.

    Yes Gove is one of the architects of this menace
    One of the nice things about recent events is that everyone now agrees with what I’ve been saying for seven years - Gove is a twat.
    That's nothing. Thanks to @MarqueeMark's thread the other day, everyone now agrees that Boris pinched Jeremy Corbyn's 2017 platform.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    edited May 2021
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rangers FC start legal proceedings against “certain individuals” - believed to include senior SNP politician Humza Yousaf - after police cleared players of using sectarian language during title celebrations.
    https://bit.ly/3hM702U

    If Humza Yousaf appears in court, will any advocate be willing to appear for him?

    Or will an advocate take it and deliberately bugger up his defence?
    Advocates appear every day for people even more annoying and repulsive than Mr Yousaf, hard though that is to imagine.
    Some advocates are very likely to have sung F**k the P*pe themselves.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited May 2021

    ydoethur said:

    Good piece @MikeSmithson

    You mention the trio of ministers, but don't mention Gove. But all the in-depth pieces I see keep bringing his name up as the senior minister most pushing the 'lockdown everyone all the time' agenda.

    Yes Gove is one of the architects of this menace
    One of the nice things about recent events is that everyone now agrees with what I’ve been saying for seven years - Gove is a twat.
    That's nothing. Thanks to @MarqueeMark's thread the other day, everyone now agrees that Boris pinched Jeremy Corbyn's 2017 platform.
    When will they shift to 2019 offering, and I get my free internet?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Cyclefree said:

    I have little sympathy with people whining about foreign holidays while there are still domestic restrictions in place, restrictions which are affecting peoples' jobs and livelihoods.

    Foreign travel can wait until domestic restrictions have gone. I have a very close friend whom I have not seen in the flesh since 8 February last year coming to stay in July. I can hardly wait. I don't care if we are walking up Black Combe in hail, thunder and lightning. We will be together and able to hug!

    Also tentatively planning to see some other close friends in Glasgow and then go exploring round there. If any Scottish PB'ers have tips for places to visit, please pass them on. I have had quite a few hols in Scotland in the past but not recently. It's only 80 miles to the border from here.

    Sympathy and understanding is often in short supply in a crisis. You can hardly wait to see your close friend, people with international families have not seen close family for 18 months.

    The restrictions on foreign travel are currently necessary and appropriate but it is hardly surprising many are complaining about them, and there is nothing wrong with a bit of sympathy for those, whilst still telling them, no.
    Well I have close family abroad I have not seen for 18 months. In fact, apart from my children and 2 cousins (I have 31) all my family live abroad - in countries it is not yet safe to visit - so I do have sympathy for those kept apart and do miss seeing them.

    Wanting to see family is one thing. People being kept apart is horrible. Wanting a holiday just to get a tan frankly is not something which should drive policy.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    Piers Morgan
    @piersmorgan
    UPDATE: This was a sensational interview. Nearly three hours with the man who wants to run the country and he left nothing in the locker....


    Oh God... Celebrity style emoting alert????
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited May 2021
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rangers FC start legal proceedings against “certain individuals” - believed to include senior SNP politician Humza Yousaf - after police cleared players of using sectarian language during title celebrations.
    https://bit.ly/3hM702U

    If Humza Yousaf appears in court, will any advocate be willing to appear for him?

    Or will an advocate take it and deliberately bugger up his defence?
    Advocates appear every day for people even more annoying and repulsive than Mr Yousaf, hard though that is to imagine.
    Should he not be simply referred as "Mr 05/2021"....so not accusations of racism...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,729

    ydoethur said:

    Good piece @MikeSmithson

    You mention the trio of ministers, but don't mention Gove. But all the in-depth pieces I see keep bringing his name up as the senior minister most pushing the 'lockdown everyone all the time' agenda.

    Yes Gove is one of the architects of this menace
    One of the nice things about recent events is that everyone now agrees with what I’ve been saying for seven years - Gove is a twat.
    That's nothing. Thanks to @MarqueeMark's thread the other day, everyone now agrees that Boris pinched Jeremy Corbyn's 2017 platform.
    When will they shift to 2019 offering, and I get my free internet?
    When they move to having a broad band of voters.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited May 2021


    Piers Morgan
    @piersmorgan
    UPDATE: This was a sensational interview. Nearly three hours with the man who wants to run the country and he left nothing in the locker....


    Oh God... Celebrity style emoting alert????

    Its going to be all emotional stuff about his mother etc isn't it. Trying to repeat the same playbook as when Gordo did Piers Moron show to try to show his human side.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited May 2021


    Piers Morgan
    @piersmorgan
    UPDATE: This was a sensational interview. Nearly three hours with the man who wants to run the country and he left nothing in the locker....


    Oh God... Celebrity style emoting alert????

    Could Harry & Meghan have some competition for most annoying interview of the year?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rangers FC start legal proceedings against “certain individuals” - believed to include senior SNP politician Humza Yousaf - after police cleared players of using sectarian language during title celebrations.
    https://bit.ly/3hM702U

    If Humza Yousaf appears in court, will any advocate be willing to appear for him?

    Or will an advocate take it and deliberately bugger up his defence?
    Advocates appear every day for people even more annoying and repulsive than Mr Yousaf, hard though that is to imagine.
    Some advocates are very likely to have sung F**k the P*pe themselves.
    In court ?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926

    ydoethur said:

    Good piece @MikeSmithson

    You mention the trio of ministers, but don't mention Gove. But all the in-depth pieces I see keep bringing his name up as the senior minister most pushing the 'lockdown everyone all the time' agenda.

    Yes Gove is one of the architects of this menace
    One of the nice things about recent events is that everyone now agrees with what I’ve been saying for seven years - Gove is a twat.
    That's nothing. Thanks to @MarqueeMark's thread the other day, everyone now agrees that Boris pinched Jeremy Corbyn's 2017 platform.
    When will they shift to 2019 offering, and I get my free internet?
    You jest but "gigabit broadband for every home and business" was indeed a Conservative pledge.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,729


    Piers Morgan
    @piersmorgan
    UPDATE: This was a sensational interview. Nearly three hours with the man who wants to run the country and he left nothing in the locker....


    Oh God... Celebrity style emoting alert????

    I’m amazed to learn Ed Davey had anything in the locker to start.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,456

    kjh said:

    A while ago I volunteered for vaccine trials (I have volunteered for a number of various medical trials in the past). Last week I got an email asking me to take part.

    If under 30 you get the VLA2001 vaccine (whatever that is)
    If over 30 2/3 will get it and 1/3 the standard AZ vaccine.

    Trouble is amongst the various conditions is you must not have received a vaccine so far, which counts me (and I guess a huge number of volunteers) out.

    Shame. I enjoy doing these.

    The pool of refused vaccine but willing to take part in a trial must be pretty tiny!
    '0' would be my guess.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    alex_ said:

    MaxPB said:

    "nonsense over the amber list"?

    Green - you can go there

    Red - you can't go there

    Amber - well, you CAN go - but I wouldn't if I were you and don't come crying to us if your holibobs go tits up....

    It's about the return of taking personal responsibility.

    Had the message for all the amber countries always been what you say then great! But the government (or are they now just a range of tits in job-titled jackets?) have been banging on and on about unlocking and holidays with stories fed to their client press wapping great big page 1 leads about it.

    What makes it even stupider is that we create a green list that includes countries you CANNOT travel to like Singapore. Surely a basic requirement of a green status is that you can actually travel there.
    Not really, the list system is for incoming travellers. It's not necessarily about coming back, it is just about coming to the UK.

    Take the example of a long term resident in Singapore who is a British citizen, they can now come to the UK with few checks and then fly back to Singapore as they are a long term resident.

    Eventually the UK will be added to other green lists because our vaccine programme is advancing very rapidly. I know for sure that a lot of East Asian countries have got the UK pencilled in for green listing. We've been told that resuming business flying to Japan is weeks away rather than months now and that's based on the Japanese government green listing UK vaccinated arrivals.
    Just a shame that Japan will be heading in the other direction on the UK list...
    Indeed, the vaccine rate there is pathetic.
    I note they just pulled their finger out and approved AZN and Moderna, so it might improve a bit.
    Not sure the Olympics is a good idea, though.
    They've got loads of Pfizer already just sitting around in freezers. Japan has got a distribution issue, not a procurement one.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603


    Piers Morgan
    @piersmorgan
    UPDATE: This was a sensational interview. Nearly three hours with the man who wants to run the country and he left nothing in the locker....


    Oh God... Celebrity style emoting alert????

    I thought Piers was cancelled because he dared to question Meghan?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,727

    Should he not be simply referred as "Mr 05/2021"....so not accusations of racism...


    A few beers have been had and in the mood for some classic John Wayne. Surely his best film was the Searchers where he seeks the April 02 tribe that kidnapped his niece. What a film.

    https://twitter.com/Wilson34David/status/1395875524497526785
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,954

    ydoethur said:

    Good piece @MikeSmithson

    You mention the trio of ministers, but don't mention Gove. But all the in-depth pieces I see keep bringing his name up as the senior minister most pushing the 'lockdown everyone all the time' agenda.

    Yes Gove is one of the architects of this menace
    One of the nice things about recent events is that everyone now agrees with what I’ve been saying for seven years - Gove is a twat.
    That's nothing. Thanks to @MarqueeMark's thread the other day, everyone now agrees that Boris pinched Jeremy Corbyn's 2017 platform.
    Boris will pinch the popular bits of anybody's platform.

    Been telling you that for an age. He is a political magpie. And the magpie is very successful - even if that means living off a diet of songbird babies....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,112
    Cyclefree said:

    Fishing said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I have little sympathy with people whining about foreign holidays while there are still domestic restrictions in place, restrictions which are affecting peoples' jobs and livelihoods.

    Eh? That is a bizarre point. The travel restrictions affect lots of people's livelihoods too.

    See here:

    https://simpleflying.com/british-airways-faces-10000-staff-redundancies-amid-covid-19/
    https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/11/heathrow-airport-makes-voluntary-redundancies-cannot-rule-cuts-12838842/
    https://employeebenefits.co.uk/heathrow-airport-introduces-pay-cuts/

    People whose daughters work in the travel industry are just as concerned as those who worked in the hospitality industry were.
    Yes - that is a fair point. That sector should continue to be supported until restrictions can safely be lifted.

    I just don't like the selfishness of those wanting to go on holiday abroad and risk reimporting the virus when we have yet to vaccinate everyone here and lift domestic restrictions.
    Quite right; especially the issue of importing new strains earlier than they would have otherwise arrived in the UK.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,926


    Piers Morgan
    @piersmorgan
    UPDATE: This was a sensational interview. Nearly three hours with the man who wants to run the country and he left nothing in the locker....


    Oh God... Celebrity style emoting alert????

    Its going to be all emotional stuff about his mother etc isn't it. Trying to repeat the same playbook as when Gordo did Piers Moron show to try to show his human side.
    More duff advice from Lord Mandelson? Though didn't this start not with Brown but John Major who spent a PPB driving round his old Brixton haunts? Starmer needs to follow not Major but Mrs Thatcher and hire a drama coach to fix his speech patterns.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rangers FC start legal proceedings against “certain individuals” - believed to include senior SNP politician Humza Yousaf - after police cleared players of using sectarian language during title celebrations.
    https://bit.ly/3hM702U

    If Humza Yousaf appears in court, will any advocate be willing to appear for him?

    Or will an advocate take it and deliberately bugger up his defence?
    Advocates appear every day for people even more annoying and repulsive than Mr Yousaf, hard though that is to imagine.
    Some advocates are very likely to have sung F**k the P*pe themselves.
    In court ?
    Difficult to tell under Donald Findlay QC's mutton chop whiskers, but under his breath for sure.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,954
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rangers FC start legal proceedings against “certain individuals” - believed to include senior SNP politician Humza Yousaf - after police cleared players of using sectarian language during title celebrations.
    https://bit.ly/3hM702U

    If Humza Yousaf appears in court, will any advocate be willing to appear for him?

    Or will an advocate take it and deliberately bugger up his defence?
    Advocates appear every day for people even more annoying and repulsive than Mr Yousaf, hard though that is to imagine.
    Some advocates are very likely to have sung F**k the P*pe themselves.
    In court ?
    Only if the judge starts it first....
This discussion has been closed.