I see the pro-Israel right wing nutters are out. Surprised @Gallowgate tbh
Had him down as one of of the more sensible posters.
Well, I have a special connection to Israel. I am Jewish by race and several of members of my extended family fought for the IDF in the Yom Kippur War. So to an extent I am biased.
Nevertheless, I think it's easy to get on the outrage bus when it comes to Israel and Palestine. Feel free to tell me what you think Israel should do instead, bearing in mind it is a democracy and therefore at the whim of its voters who demand security.
I must say you hid your right wing nuttiness so well until ping outed you ...........
The Israeli military has begun to warn over 4000 residents of Gaza City's premier Al Remal neighborhood to evacuate their towers ahead of a large strike wave and it is the first mass effort to clear a district during this escalation
residents of Cairo Tower, south Gaza City, receive calls from the Israeli military controllers to evacuate immediately
Both last 10 mins
Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.
I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.
Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?
It is ethnic cleaning, with a dash of genocide. The Israelis are Serbia and Gaza is Kosovo
I see the pro-Israel right wing nutters are out. Surprised @Gallowgate tbh
Had him down as one of of the more sensible posters.
Well, I have a special connection to Israel. I am Jewish by race and several of members of my extended family fought for the IDF in the Yom Kippur War. So to an extent I am biased.
Nevertheless, I think it's easy to get on the outrage bus when it comes to Israel and Palestine. Feel free to tell me what you think Israel should do instead, bearing in mind it is a democracy and therefore at the whim of its voters who demand security.
One thing I hope they do very swiftly is move to new leadership. But at the moment that’s only going to happen if the courts imprison that dinosaur Netanyahu.
The Israeli military has begun to warn over 4000 residents of Gaza City's premier Al Remal neighborhood to evacuate their towers ahead of a large strike wave and it is the first mass effort to clear a district during this escalation
residents of Cairo Tower, south Gaza City, receive calls from the Israeli military controllers to evacuate immediately
Both last 10 mins
Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.
I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.
Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?
It is ethnic cleaning, with a dash of genocide. The Israelis are Serbia and Gaza is Kosovo
Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?
I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
Well yes - not a fan of that either - Guys you are there to play football , not swear allegence to the Queen , virtue signal or fake mourn - just get on with the football
The Israeli military has begun to warn over 4000 residents of Gaza City's premier Al Remal neighborhood to evacuate their towers ahead of a large strike wave and it is the first mass effort to clear a district during this escalation
residents of Cairo Tower, south Gaza City, receive calls from the Israeli military controllers to evacuate immediately
Both last 10 mins
Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.
I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.
Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?
It is ethnic cleaning, with a dash of genocide. The Israelis are Serbia and Gaza is Kosovo
Imagine if in the late 1960s/1970s the British Army had bombed the Falls Road and other areas of West Belfast, with or without warning, because they knew full well that terrorist members of the IRA were hiding out there making bombs to use in NI and on mainland Britain. Would that have been acceptable?
It seems to me that this is the equivalent of what Israel is doing at the moment, albeit on a wider scale.
Surely there's a strong argument to be made for refusing those who have refused vaccines any public hospital treatment for Covid. Having these idiots spreading it in hospitals is more likely to affect the really vulnerable who HAVE to be in hospital.
Even if it's too controversial to actually refuse them treatment, publicly and loudly having that argument might persuade some of the selfish gits to get vaxed.
If this becomes a real trend, ordinary publicity about the fact should persuade some of those who believe themselves immune.
Also, it shouldn't be described as a worrying trend; why worry about those who aren't concerned about themselves? The worry is for those who cannot receive the vaccine, and for those whose response to the vaccine doesn't protect them enough.
Somebody said FPT they don't know anyone who has not had a vaccine, but the chances are someone is lying to you.
I have already lied to one friend (not someone I have met personally for more than a year) and one work colleague (also who I have not met for a year) .
Don't want to be lied to? don't ask me about my medical history. It is private.
Perhaps you've had it and are lying to us. Has to be a possibility.
Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?
I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.
I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.
Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?
—-
I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans
Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.
Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.
Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.
The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.
It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
But what are they supposed to do?
They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.
It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North
Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"
I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:
Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3
The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3
Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
I wish you wouldn't pretend that people who are critical of his actions (or potential actions) automatically assume it will be hurting Boris in the polls. Things can matter, or not, irrespective of whether it harms someone politically.
The very fact he gets minutiae about personal standards wrong is infuriating because it is so petty and needless. Ok, you don't need faultless integrity to be PM, but does he have to take every opportunity to be incompetent over very simple, easy rules about personal standards?
It's hardly a pretence - many of those obsessed with these petty things quite openly expect, or at least passionately hope, that they will hurt his polling. Since this is politicalbetting.com, not moralisticbetting.com, I like to focus on the political reality that those hopes are a little fanciful. Others are free to take a different view.
You can focus on the political reality without acting like a child, you know.
It's fair to highlight that wallpaper-gate has had no political impact and that on the whole, people don't really care, but that doesn't mean people who do highlight these things are "petty" or "obsessed".
The fact is, rules around donations and benefits in kind are there for a reason. That isn't petty — it's about standards in public life.
But we all know you're the biggest partisan going who simply cheers for the "blues" regardless of whatever they do, so you carry on.
Hm, a bit hypocritical considering how your own favourite tactic is to endlessly accuse others of being obsessed if they raise cultural issues that affect the entire country but happen not to matter to you. I also notice in passing that you only direct such observations to those who disagree with you politically, which seems to make you a, er, massive partisan yourself...
I simply call things out as irrational if I believe that they do not in fact, "affect the entire country" and that the belief is simply an irrational response, based on a misplaced fear.
You never explain why you think matters such as wallpaper gate are inconsequential, you merely point to the polls and say "HA! Look! It's not important". That doesn't prove that things are important objectively, that just shows that subjectively the population isn't basing their voting preference on it.
We all know your object is not to have a reasoned argument — your objective is to simply rub people's noses in the fact that "your team" is more popular but we already know "your team" is more popular. It isn't particularly relevant.
I am not a partisan to any "side". I simply state what I personally think. It just so happens that very few of my personal views align with "your team".
It isn't particularly relevant.
On the contrary, in democratic politics there is nothing more relevant than what the voting public considers relevant: their subjectivity determines the objective outcome of political events. Trying to wish that fact away is bound to bring you only frustration.
I simply call things out as irrational if I believe that they do not in fact, "affect the entire country" and that the belief is simply an irrational response, based on a misplaced fear.
Wonderful. Likewise, I happen to believe that the moralizing over wallpapergate et al. is irrational, and am 'calling it out' (ghastly phrase) on exactly the same basis. The fact that the elections happened to prove me resoundingly correct in that view is just a side bonus.
Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.
I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.
Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?
—-
I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans
Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.
Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.
Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.
The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.
It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
But what are they supposed to do?
They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.
It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
Stop turning little children into mincemeat
This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.
Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North
Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"
Which polling company was this? Trying to find the details.
Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?
I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?
I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
Not as weird as when Germans and Austrians have poppies stitched on their shirts.
Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election, mass poll finds The Prime Minister would win 23 more Red Wall seats in the Midlands and the North
Altogether now "oh, Keir Starmer"
I was wondering why I had hardly been on here for a few days. You just reminded me. Thanks.
Oh dear. Wrong website if you're allergic to polling data.
Not so much the polling as the tiresome commentary.
Yes, the wittering on about tedious minutiae like wallpaper, holidays, and CCJs can be a bit mind-numbing. Here's some more of the polling data you clearly don't mind:
Boris Johnson would secure 122-seat majority if he called snap general election now, mass poll finds The Conservatives' lead over Labour has more than doubled since local elections to 13 per cent. 1/3
The large-scale poll by @FindoutnowUK and @ElectCalculus of 14,000 people after the local and regional elections puts the Tories on 43 per cent ahead of Labour on 30per cent. Tories will increase their seats by 21 to 386, while Labour fell back 31 seats to 172 seats. 2/3
Tories would pick up 23 more 'Red Wall' seats compared to 2019. Labour MPs who would lose their seats include Yvette Cooper, Ed Miliband and Jon Cruddas. Tory Cabinet minister Alister Jack would also be out as SNP picked up 58 out of 59 available seats in Scotland. 3/3
I wish you wouldn't pretend that people who are critical of his actions (or potential actions) automatically assume it will be hurting Boris in the polls. Things can matter, or not, irrespective of whether it harms someone politically.
The very fact he gets minutiae about personal standards wrong is infuriating because it is so petty and needless. Ok, you don't need faultless integrity to be PM, but does he have to take every opportunity to be incompetent over very simple, easy rules about personal standards?
It's hardly a pretence - many of those obsessed with these petty things quite openly expect, or at least passionately hope, that they will hurt his polling. Since this is politicalbetting.com, not moralisticbetting.com, I like to focus on the political reality that those hopes are a little fanciful. Others are free to take a different view.
You can focus on the political reality without acting like a child, you know.
It's fair to highlight that wallpaper-gate has had no political impact and that on the whole, people don't really care, but that doesn't mean people who do highlight these things are "petty" or "obsessed".
The fact is, rules around donations and benefits in kind are there for a reason. That isn't petty — it's about standards in public life.
But we all know you're the biggest partisan going who simply cheers for the "blues" regardless of whatever they do, so you carry on.
Hm, a bit hypocritical considering how your own favourite tactic is to endlessly accuse others of being obsessed if they raise cultural issues that affect the entire country but happen not to matter to you. I also notice in passing that you only direct such observations to those who disagree with you politically, which seems to make you a, er, massive partisan yourself...
I simply call things out as irrational if I believe that they do not in fact, "affect the entire country" and that the belief is simply an irrational response, based on a misplaced fear.
You never explain why you think matters such as wallpaper gate are inconsequential, you merely point to the polls and say "HA! Look! It's not important". That doesn't prove that things are important objectively, that just shows that subjectively the population isn't basing their voting preference on it.
We all know your object is not to have a reasoned argument — your objective is to simply rub people's noses in the fact that "your team" is more popular but we already know "your team" is more popular. It isn't particularly relevant.
I am not a partisan to any "side". I simply state what I personally think. It just so happens that very few of my personal views align with "your team".
It isn't particularly relevant.
On the contrary, in democratic politics there is nothing more relevant than what the voting public considers relevant: their subjectivity determines the objective outcome of political events. Trying to wish that fact away is bound to bring you only frustration.
I simply call things out as irrational if I believe that they do not in fact, "affect the entire country" and that the belief is simply an irrational response, based on a misplaced fear.
Wonderful. Likewise, I happen to believe that the moralizing over wallpapergate is irrational, and am 'calling it out' (ghastly phrase) on exactly the same basis. The fact that the elections happened to prove me resoundingly correct in that view is just a side bonus.
You keep trying to equate everything with electoral performance. When I disagree with you on whether something is important or not, I don't really care if the majority in the country share the same view as you. You may care, but that doesn't change my view.
People have given you reasons on why they don't think moralising over wallpapergate is irrational. You haven't addressed any of those arguments, you just point to the polls.
Feel free to give us an idea of what level of "scandal" it would take for you to decide that something is important, even if the public on the whole didn't. I'll wait.
If Boris Johnson was caught redhanded accepting a clear bribe in exchange for a favour, would you criticise that, or would you point to the polls and gloat? I'm genuinely interested.
Possibly, but Boris's well of political capital seems bottomless. Trump's 'I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody' seems more applicable to him.
Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?
I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
In Glasgow it's stopping the fcukers singing GSTQ continuously after the match that's the problem
I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
TEST
I see once again the separatists are full of solutions
A few weeks time and we will have millions as everybody rushes abroad for summer sunshine and brings back COVID along with the usual increased risk of skin cancer after been burned like a bad BBQ, a load of STIs...
Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?
I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
In Glasgow it's stopping the fcukers singing GSTQ continuously after the match that's the problem
Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?
I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
In Glasgow it's stopping the fcukers singing GSTQ continuously after the match that's the problem
Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.
I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.
Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?
—-
I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans
Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.
Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.
Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.
The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.
It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
But what are they supposed to do?
They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.
It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
Stop turning little children into mincemeat
This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.
Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
It’s not whether they’re trying to. In fact, Israel does try to avoid civilian casualties. Hence these warnings.
The problem is that between Hamas’ ruthless, cynical and despicable use of human shields and the IDF’s own determination to hit at them whether they’re trying to do it or not, they’re succeeding.
On Batley and Spen, whilst the tories gained few seats in West Yorkshire in GE 2019, the majorities weren't that big for how Brexity the area is. Could be many Asian/Muslim voters in the area voted for Brexit but are loyal to Labour.
Would it help the Tories chances if they had a (qualified of course) Muslim candidate? Not that they should aselect candidate simply because they are the right religion ofcourse, I'm just thinking out loud.
Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.
I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.
Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?
—-
I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans
Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.
Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.
Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.
The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.
It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
But what are they supposed to do?
They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.
It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
Stop turning little children into mincemeat
This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.
Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
It’s not whether they’re trying to. In fact, Israel does try to avoid civilian casualties. Hence these warnings.
The problem is that between Hamas’ ruthless, cynical and despicable use of human shields and the IDF’s own determination to hit at them whether they’re trying to do it or not, they’re succeeding.
I don't disagree with you at all. However Twitter is showing how dangerous it is again with this conflict — simple one-sided statements and photos being retweeted over and over again without any critique or context. Videos of apartment buildings being demolished next to death figures, implying a link, with no context that said apartment building was empty at the time.
Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.
I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.
Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?
—-
I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans
Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.
Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.
Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.
The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.
It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
But what are they supposed to do?
They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.
It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
Stop turning little children into mincemeat
This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.
Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
A few weeks time and we will have millions as everybody rushes abroad for summer sunshine and brings back COVID along with the usual increased risk of skin cancer after been burned like a bad BBQ, a load of STIs...
Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.
I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.
Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?
—-
I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans
Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.
Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.
Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.
The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.
It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
But what are they supposed to do?
They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.
It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
Stop turning little children into mincemeat
This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.
Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
They are not trying they are simply doing it.
As I keep asking, what do you expect Israel to do instead?
A Green surge could absolutely kill Labour, and I reckon it is coming. The Corbynites & the centrists are at war - look on twitter & all they do is slag each other off and point at polls where one is doing or did better than the other. They seem less concerned about the Tories.
There’s no way the Corbyn activists are going to campaign for, or even vote for the new management; they’ll go Green and split the left wing vote.
The media will now be pressuring the clubs to ban these people.
I doubt it
It happened previously, there was media outrage and the clubs then gave bans.
"Look at these dickheads" is not the same as "ban these dickheads", at least from my perspective. I am no fan of cancel-culture.
If I remember correctly Colchester banned fans. I can't remember if Millwall and Derby did in the end, but there was 1000s of lines of media coverage of this and lots of calls for anybody booing this is basically a racist and therefore should be considered similar to other racist gestures at football are dealt with.
Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?
I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
They play The Star Spangled Banner before every MLS game in the US.
Which is a bit odd because (a) there are frequently no Americans on the pitch at all and (b) it's a frickin' regular season MLS game.
Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?
I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
They play The Star Spangled Banner before every MLS game in the US.
Which is a bit odd because (a) there are frequently no Americans on the pitch at all and (b) it's a frickin' regular season MLS game.
Intriguingly, MLS games between two Canadian sides don't start with the Canadian national anthem.
The media will now be pressuring the clubs to ban these people.
I doubt it
It happened previously, there was media outrage and the clubs then gave bans.
"Look at these dickheads" is not the same as "ban these dickheads", at least from my perspective. I am no fan of cancel-culture.
If I remember correctly Colchester banned fans. I can't remember if Millwall and Derby did in the end, but there was 1000s of lines of media coverage of this.
Aye — but that's private organisations taking their own view, isn't it? I'd love to see a media article calling for the fans to be banned as a result. I've tried to Google but I couldn't find anything.
Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?
I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
They play The Star Spangled Banner before every MLS game in the US.
Which is a bit odd because (a) there are frequently no Americans on the pitch at all and (b) it's a frickin' regular season MLS game.
If we started doing that here, and I commented saying I thought it was stupid, no doubt I'd be accused of being a woke Britain hater.
I see the pro-Israel right wing nutters are out. Surprised @Gallowgate tbh
Had him down as one of of the more sensible posters.
Well, I have a special connection to Israel. I am Jewish by race and several of members of my extended family fought for the IDF in the Yom Kippur War. So to an extent I am biased.
Nevertheless, I think it's easy to get on the outrage bus when it comes to Israel and Palestine. Feel free to tell me what you think Israel should do instead, bearing in mind it is a democracy and therefore at the whim of its voters who demand security.
Ah, so in this case the opinions of voters do override the (rather substantial) competing claims of morality? And partisan allegiances are not a thing to be casually disowned?
As it happens, I agree with you about Israel's position. That's the value of intellectual consistency.
Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?
I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
They play The Star Spangled Banner before every MLS game in the US.
Which is a bit odd because (a) there are frequently no Americans on the pitch at all and (b) it's a frickin' regular season MLS game.
If we started doing that here, and I commented saying I thought it was stupid, no doubt I'd be accused of being a woke Britain hater.
But you do the equivalent when someone questions BLM at football matches. You essentially accuse them of being an out and out racist.
The media will now be pressuring the clubs to ban these people.
I doubt it
It happened previously, there was media outrage and the clubs then gave bans.
"Look at these dickheads" is not the same as "ban these dickheads", at least from my perspective. I am no fan of cancel-culture.
If I remember correctly Colchester banned fans. I can't remember if Millwall and Derby did in the end, but there was 1000s of lines of media coverage of this.
Aye — but that's private organisations taking their own view, isn't it? I'd love to see a media article calling for the fans to be banned as a result. I've tried to Google but I couldn't find anything.
"Like many others, I view what happened at The Den on Saturday as racist. If you willfully disrespect a gesture that is in solidarity with an anti-racism movement, in support of the empowerment of a racial group, then you stand accused of racism."
The FA had the ability to issue Millwall with a stadium ban: in fact their regulations set that as the standard penalty, but they chose to fine them and put in place educational measures.
It’s ironic, because the club had seemingly anticipated opposition from the fans before Saturday’s match – the first time crowds had been allowed back in English football stadiums since the Black Lives Matter protests took off this year – by expressing their continued support for players taking the knee.
Saturday’s boo-ers were mainly season ticket holders with names, addresses and seat numbers, who presumably could easily be identified by CCTV, and upon whom, if the club were so minded, they could impose bans and suspensions. The club could have acted firmly in solidarity with their black players by recommitting their wholehearted support for the taking of the knee. Instead, Millwall have behaved not like the lions on their club crest, but like chickens; and in doing so have sent out a message that the views of racist fans are more important than the sentiments of their black players and black fans.
I see the pro-Israel right wing nutters are out. Surprised @Gallowgate tbh
Had him down as one of of the more sensible posters.
Well, I have a special connection to Israel. I am Jewish by race and several of members of my extended family fought for the IDF in the Yom Kippur War. So to an extent I am biased.
Nevertheless, I think it's easy to get on the outrage bus when it comes to Israel and Palestine. Feel free to tell me what you think Israel should do instead, bearing in mind it is a democracy and therefore at the whim of its voters who demand security.
Ah, so in this case the opinions of voters do override the (rather substantial) competing claims of morality? And partisan allegiances are not a thing to be casually disowned?
As it happens, I agree with you about Israel's position. That's the value of intellectual consistency.
Come on now. I'm not saying Israel is right to do what they're doing, I'm merely arguing that realistically there's not another option open to them.
If you read my posts, you'd know full well that my view on morality is not black and white anyway, apart from when it comes to football.
A Green surge could absolutely kill Labour, and I reckon it is coming. The Corbynites & the centrists are at war - look on twitter & all they do is slag each other off and point at polls where one is doing or did better than the other. They seem less concerned about the Tories.
There’s no way the Corbyn activists are going to campaign for, or even vote for the new management; they’ll go Green and split the left wing vote.
I think that is spot on. There is a natural fissure line in Labour’s vote - the socially conservative, WWC goes Conservative, the educated urban types go Green. Sheffield and Bristol are possible harbingers to come. In a number of cities, Labour’s hold on the Bangladeshi / Pakistani vote will help protect it but there is a question for how long.
Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?
I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
They play The Star Spangled Banner before every MLS game in the US.
Which is a bit odd because (a) there are frequently no Americans on the pitch at all and (b) it's a frickin' regular season MLS game.
If we started doing that here, and I commented saying I thought it was stupid, no doubt I'd be accused of being a woke Britain hater.
But you do the equivalent when someone questions BLM at football matches. You essentially accuse them of being an out and out racist.
Except I don't. Some people just interpreted my criticism of, in my opinion, their irrational belief as accusing them of being "racist".
Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?
I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
They play The Star Spangled Banner before every MLS game in the US.
Which is a bit odd because (a) there are frequently no Americans on the pitch at all and (b) it's a frickin' regular season MLS game.
Yes a bit odd for sure
It’s a bit odd in any non international game in my book. I guess they do it at the FA Cup because a member of the Royal Family is there. But I’d scrap it
Does the FA cup final actually start at 5.15 or is it the start of "taking the knee" , a few minutes silence to whatever the latest enforced mourning is for? Shall I just switch on at 5.20?
I actually found it really strange that they still sing GSTQ before the match - only five of the starting 22 are British. The rest of them just standing there thinking wtf?
In Glasgow it's stopping the fcukers singing GSTQ continuously after the match that's the problem
The media will now be pressuring the clubs to ban these people.
I doubt it
It happened previously, there was media outrage and the clubs then gave bans.
"Look at these dickheads" is not the same as "ban these dickheads", at least from my perspective. I am no fan of cancel-culture.
If I remember correctly Colchester banned fans. I can't remember if Millwall and Derby did in the end, but there was 1000s of lines of media coverage of this.
Aye — but that's private organisations taking their own view, isn't it? I'd love to see a media article calling for the fans to be banned as a result. I've tried to Google but I couldn't find anything.
"Like many others, I view what happened at The Den on Saturday as racist. If you willfully disrespect a gesture that is in solidarity with an anti-racism movement, in support of the empowerment of a racial group, then you stand accused of racism."
The FA had the ability to issue Millwall with a stadium ban: in fact their regulations set that as the standard penalty, but they chose to fine them and put in place educational measures.
It’s ironic, because the club had seemingly anticipated opposition from the fans before Saturday’s match – the first time crowds had been allowed back in English football stadiums since the Black Lives Matter protests took off this year – by expressing their continued support for players taking the knee.
Saturday’s boo-ers were mainly season ticket holders with names, addresses and seat numbers, who presumably could easily be identified by CCTV, and upon whom, if the club were so minded, they could impose bans and suspensions. The club could have acted firmly in solidarity with their black players by recommitting their wholehearted support for the taking of the knee. Instead, Millwall have behaved not like the lions on their club crest, but like chickens; and in doing so have sent out a message that the views of racist fans are more important than the sentiments of their black players and black fans.
The media will now be pressuring the clubs to ban these people.
I doubt it
It happened previously, there was media outrage and the clubs then gave bans.
"Look at these dickheads" is not the same as "ban these dickheads", at least from my perspective. I am no fan of cancel-culture.
If I remember correctly Colchester banned fans. I can't remember if Millwall and Derby did in the end, but there was 1000s of lines of media coverage of this.
Aye — but that's private organisations taking their own view, isn't it? I'd love to see a media article calling for the fans to be banned as a result. I've tried to Google but I couldn't find anything.
"Like many others, I view what happened at The Den on Saturday as racist. If you willfully disrespect a gesture that is in solidarity with an anti-racism movement, in support of the empowerment of a racial group, then you stand accused of racism."
The FA had the ability to issue Millwall with a stadium ban: in fact their regulations set that as the standard penalty, but they chose to fine them and put in place educational measures.
It’s ironic, because the club had seemingly anticipated opposition from the fans before Saturday’s match – the first time crowds had been allowed back in English football stadiums since the Black Lives Matter protests took off this year – by expressing their continued support for players taking the knee.
Saturday’s boo-ers were mainly season ticket holders with names, addresses and seat numbers, who presumably could easily be identified by CCTV, and upon whom, if the club were so minded, they could impose bans and suspensions. The club could have acted firmly in solidarity with their black players by recommitting their wholehearted support for the taking of the knee. Instead, Millwall have behaved not like the lions on their club crest, but like chickens; and in doing so have sent out a message that the views of racist fans are more important than the sentiments of their black players and black fans.
I'm not sure I agree with you that these pieces are examples of the media "calling for bans". It's merely some in the media criticising.
Nevertheless, like I said, I don't agree with banning people for this. I still think they're dickheads though.
Oh come on. The second specifically calls for a ban. It says they know who are they, they could ban them, they didn't, thus were bad.
The coverage of this story was significant and always with the slant / supporting comments from those who claimed it is a sign of racism and should be dealt with as such. It was clear that many in the media framed it this way.
Same as BT are using a particular lobby, I mean charity, group, who have a very specific slant / political outlook, in their coverage of online abuse.
A few weeks time and we will have millions as everybody rushes abroad for summer sunshine and brings back COVID along with the usual increased risk of skin cancer after been burned like a bad BBQ, a load of STIs...
It's almost inevitable given the current case numbers than the Indian variants won't even be the most worrying ones by the end of the summer. It's people going to an as yet unknown country picking up a strain that may not exist yet that will be the problem in the autumn and winter.
Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.
I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.
Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?
—-
I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans
Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.
Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.
Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.
The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.
It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
But what are they supposed to do?
They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.
It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
Well, they warned the AP. I had assumed they didn't warn everyone in the building. If they did, I rather wonder what was the point of destroying it.
"Dear Mr Palestinian Militant. Please note that we shall be destroying the building where you are in three hours' time. This is to give you due notice, so that there is no chance of our action killing anyone who is actually relevant to the conflict. We want to make absolutely sure we just pointlessly destroy people's homes and press offices, while achieving precisely nothing."
I mean, I thought it was stupid, but you make it sound absolutely moronic.
It is moronic. But like I said, what are they supposed to do instead? Ground offensive? That may very well be coming.
"We must do something. This is something. It is moronic. ..."
Israel’s been trying to empty Gaza of people for fifteen years.
I’m just having a horrible suspicion that they’re about to try a more direct way.
Flatten all the housing - what becomes of the people?
—-
I feel so sorry for they ordinary Gazans
Governed by Hamas dickheads, bombed by right wing Israeli dickheads.
Must be a bloody miserable existence. Most prisons would give a better quality of life.
Is there a party which supports the good people on both sides and opposes the bad people on both sides? Do they hold demonstrations?
I'm not sure what people expect Israel to do in these circumstances.
The Iron Dome isn't infallible. If they do nothing, the people who are getting their property and lives destroyed by Hamas rockets are going to be spitting bullets, so they have to respond.
It's an awful situation but Israel is just doing what any western nation would do in the same circumstances. In fact, we did the same in Northern Ireland.
I read that Israel have killed more Palestinian civilians in the last 48 hours than Hamas have killed Israeli civilians with rockets in the last 20 years. I guess for a lot of people (me included) a big problem is the disproportionate response and a sense that it's collective punishment.
But what are they supposed to do?
They warn before they bomb, and they try to target leaders and military personnel, but obviously there is going to be collateral damage.
It's easy to criticise, but you can't expect Israel to do nothing and let the rockets rain down, so what are they supposed to do?
Stop turning little children into mincemeat
This is the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I would expect on a Corbynista Twitter feed. It's completely devoid of meaning.
Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
They are not trying they are simply doing it.
As I keep asking, what do you expect Israel to do instead?
Damned if I know how to bring peace to the Middle East. Maybe that's why I've never joined a political party. In most ways, Israel is the best country in the region. It's a democracy with religious freedom, political freedom, sexual freedom. But, well, the last couple of days show the but.
A few weeks time and we will have millions as everybody rushes abroad for summer sunshine and brings back COVID along with the usual increased risk of skin cancer after been burned like a bad BBQ, a load of STIs...
It's almost inevitable given the current case numbers than the Indian variants won't even be the most worrying ones by the end of the summer. It's people going to an as yet unknown country picking up a strain that may not exist yet that will be the problem in the autumn and winter.
Well last summer saw Spanish variant imported and led to autumn surge.
How dare somebody raise issues with gender in a video seminar about gender feminism and the law...
Female student, 29, who said 'women have vaginas' and are 'not as strong as men' faces disciplinary action by university after fellow classmates complained about the 'offensive and discriminatory' comments
If we do end up in another lockdown with pubs, restaurants and shops closed public retribution on those deemed responsible will be swift and merciless.
At the moment in seems to me that the anti-vaxers and Boris's India decision are in the frame. Boris will be in real trouble if it appears to have been caused allowing travel from India for a full 3 weeks after banning it from neighbouring Pakistan and Banglasdesh. There was no logical reason for delay other than Boris's planned trade trip to India which was cancelled in the end anyway. Even at the time the decision to dither and delay was inexplicable to many.
A quick google, there is very little information about these people. Anybody have any info?
They must be reliable because they're affiliated in some way to ElectoralCalculus.
Oh to be clear not trying to imply they were unreliable, just interested to know who they are, what they are about e.g. are they a start-up from pollsters from another company, are they an established pollster in another country and branded as this for UK, etc?
Every time a new variant has emerged, Johnson has decided to give people in the country in question a few days to get back to the UK before the ban came into force.
A few weeks time and we will have millions as everybody rushes abroad for summer sunshine and brings back COVID along with the usual increased risk of skin cancer after been burned like a bad BBQ, a load of STIs...
It's almost inevitable given the current case numbers than the Indian variants won't even be the most worrying ones by the end of the summer. It's people going to an as yet unknown country picking up a strain that may not exist yet that will be the problem in the autumn and winter.
Well last summer saw Spanish variant imported and led to autumn surge.
Yes, but all I'm saying is that given the record case levels there are likely worse strains coming along, and by the time we identify them it will be too late to stop them being imported. Until the case levels drop significantly on a global basis we are going to see new variants of concern arise quite frequently.
Comments
It seems to me that this is the equivalent of what Israel is doing at the moment, albeit on a wider scale.
Also, it shouldn't be described as a worrying trend; why worry about those who aren't concerned about themselves? The worry is for those who cannot receive the vaccine, and for those whose response to the vaccine doesn't protect them enough.
On the contrary, in democratic politics there is nothing more relevant than what the voting public considers relevant: their subjectivity determines the objective outcome of political events. Trying to wish that fact away is bound to bring you only frustration.
I simply call things out as irrational if I believe that they do not in fact, "affect the entire country" and that the belief is simply an irrational response, based on a misplaced fear.
Wonderful. Likewise, I happen to believe that the moralizing over wallpapergate et al. is irrational, and am 'calling it out' (ghastly phrase) on exactly the same basis. The fact that the elections happened to prove me resoundingly correct in that view is just a side bonus.
Israel is not trying to "turn children into mincemeat".
Politics For All
@PoliticsForAlI
3m
NEW: Over 20,000 possibly infected passengers were allowed to enter Britain while Boris Johnson delayed imposing a travel ban from India
Via
@thesundaytimes
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1393614258299080706?s=20
People have given you reasons on why they don't think moralising over wallpapergate is irrational. You haven't addressed any of those arguments, you just point to the polls.
Feel free to give us an idea of what level of "scandal" it would take for you to decide that something is important, even if the public on the whole didn't. I'll wait.
If Boris Johnson was caught redhanded accepting a clear bribe in exchange for a favour, would you criticise that, or would you point to the polls and gloat? I'm genuinely interested.
https://twitter.com/AlanJZycinski/status/1393575002046439425?s=20
I see once again the separatists are full of solutions
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/fa-cup-final-fans-boo-knee-b1848167.html
The problem is that between Hamas’ ruthless, cynical and despicable use of human shields and the IDF’s own determination to hit at them whether they’re trying to do it or not, they’re succeeding.
Would it help the Tories chances if they had a (qualified of course) Muslim candidate? Not that they should aselect candidate simply because they are the right religion ofcourse, I'm just thinking out loud.
There’s no way the Corbyn activists are going to campaign for, or even vote for the new management; they’ll go Green and split the left wing vote.
https://youtu.be/iP6XpLQM2Cs
Which is a bit odd because (a) there are frequently no Americans on the pitch at all and (b) it's a frickin' regular season MLS game.
As it happens, I agree with you about Israel's position. That's the value of intellectual consistency.
The FA had the ability to issue Millwall with a stadium ban: in fact their regulations set that as the standard penalty, but they chose to fine them and put in place educational measures.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/millwall-fans-booing-will-feel-vindicated-by-stopping-players-taking-a-knee-b222831.html
-----------
It’s ironic, because the club had seemingly anticipated opposition from the fans before Saturday’s match – the first time crowds had been allowed back in English football stadiums since the Black Lives Matter protests took off this year – by expressing their continued support for players taking the knee.
Saturday’s boo-ers were mainly season ticket holders with names, addresses and seat numbers, who presumably could easily be identified by CCTV, and upon whom, if the club were so minded, they could impose bans and suspensions. The club could have acted firmly in solidarity with their black players by recommitting their wholehearted support for the taking of the knee. Instead, Millwall have behaved not like the lions on their club crest, but like chickens; and in doing so have sent out a message that the views of racist fans are more important than the sentiments of their black players and black fans.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/10/stopping-players-taking-the-knee-millwall-racists-victory
There are loads of pieces like these.
If you read my posts, you'd know full well that my view on morality is not black and white anyway, apart from when it comes to football.
It’s a bit odd in any non international game in my book. I guess they do it at the FA Cup because a member of the Royal Family is there. But I’d scrap it
And quite unique
I hope they win this
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/15/david-miliband-charity-unpaid-internships-international-rescue-committee
Nevertheless, like I said, I don't agree with banning people for this. I still think they're dickheads though.
The coverage of this story was significant and always with the slant / supporting comments from those who claimed it is a sign of racism and should be dealt with as such. It was clear that many in the media framed it this way.
Same as BT are using a particular lobby, I mean charity, group, who have a very specific slant / political outlook, in their coverage of online abuse.
He is just Boris
I do agree
"Stats for Lefties
@LeftieStats
Voting intention poll:
CON: 43% (-2)
LAB: 30% (-3)
LD: 11% (-1)
GRN: 9% (+6)
REF: 2% (-)
[Their seat estimate]
CON: 386 (+21)
LAB: 172 (-31)
SNP: 58 (+10)
LD: 9 (-2)
GRN: 2 (+1)
OTH: 23 (+1)
Tory majority of 122 seats.
Via
@FindoutnowUK"
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1393615235999801352
Female student, 29, who said 'women have vaginas' and are 'not as strong as men' faces disciplinary action by university after fellow classmates complained about the 'offensive and discriminatory' comments
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9581035/Law-student-29-said-women-vaginas-faces-disciplinary-action-university.html
They are a real threat to labour and lib dems
At the moment in seems to me that the anti-vaxers and Boris's India decision are in the frame. Boris will be in real trouble if it appears to have been caused allowing travel from India for a full 3 weeks after banning it from neighbouring Pakistan and Banglasdesh. There was no logical reason for delay other than Boris's planned trade trip to India which was cancelled in the end anyway. Even at the time the decision to dither and delay was inexplicable to many.
Well it’s an improvement on the way Arsenal reacted to Ozil and China.