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One in nine of those younger than 25 on the YouGov panel don’t even know who Tony Blair was – politi

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited May 14 in General
imageOne in nine of those younger than 25 on the YouGov panel don’t even know who Tony Blair was – politicalbetting.com

YouGov has just put out the above polling on Keir Starmer and seeks to rate him against Corbyn, Tony Blair and the Mayor of Greater Manchester and failed 2015 LAB leadership contender, Andy Burnham. Thus the latter was in the news a bit last weekend after his re-election in Manchester but a total of 38% either didn’t have a view or didn’t know who he was.

Read the full story here

«1345678

Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,174
    First
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,475
    edited May 14
    FPT TimT Posts: 3,659
    10:11AM
    IanB2 said:

    Exactly. The only weather station actually in Ventnor is the one in the park, which the town council pays a guy to monitor. He sends the readings off to the Met office at the end of every month, just for their records, but our local weather isn't actually recorded and published anywhere.

    The problem with a lot of weather sites - including the BBC - is that they extrapolate between what are actually fairly dispersed data points, and don't take account of local factors very well at all. For much of the country, that works reasonably well, but for somewhere like here that regularly has completely different weather to points just twenty minutes walk away over the hill, it doesn't work very well. Follow the link I posted earlier to our local Botanic Garden; they grow stuff there from Australia and the like that doesn't survive outside anywhere else in the UK.

    It's lovely and reasonably sunny here right now, so I am going out to do some light gardening. Without a coat or jumper ;)

    I responded:

    Including Roseland peninsula and Tresco? Plant survivability is generally about temperature lows, not averages or highs (although most C3 plants shut down once temperatures get into the 80s F).

    I would have thought Tresco Gardens would be capable of growing those Australian plants.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,223
    Tony who???
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 35,646
    FPT: Weather

    I've posted a photo I took from the balcony just five minutes ago, on my dog's Instagram:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CO2z5Gon6oH/

    I'll delete it later. Hopefully this first hand evidence will convince our Sean sitting in the London murk :)

    Off to the garden....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,586
    FPT
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    Floater said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    The knee -

    This here comment of mine is not targeted at anyone on here - honest guv - but I do sense that for some the gesture is particularly upsetting because it smacks of supplication to the Black Man.

    Sorry. Nonsense. Only in your mind.
    Well there's no doubt - since it's widely expressed - that the 'supplicant' look of taking the knee gets a lot of goats.

    Now none of these goats will come out and say, "Yeah, making white people grovel and kneel for BLM, trying to turn the tables innit, well they can fuck right off!"

    But what makes you think there's none of that going on? There's some real rage out there about this gesture, remember, and some of those most angry are ... interesting people.

    Are you 100% sure it's all due to irritation at virtue signaling and dislike of Marxism? I'm not.
    I think you are overanalysing it, and so too are those that are against it. Although not a Labour supporter, I quite like Starmer and I think a lot of people are underestimating him on the basis of polls in a strange time, but I think he looked a bit silly genuflecting. he needs a better spin doctor.
    Not sure I am. I'm only suggesting there's a bit of this around in certain quarters.

    I agree on the staged "kneeling in office" shot. Bit wooden and inauthentic looking.
    You just summed Starmer up

    Bit wooden and inauthentic looking.
    Yep. Fair cop. It is an issue. For me, I prefer somebody with decorum because it shows they don't have the sort of insecure narcissism or inbred entitlement that makes them assume the world needs and wants to be exposed to lots of their "personality" on a regular basis. But I think I'm in a minority on this and in any case I accept that in these Reality TV days a political leader who is low key is at a tremendous disadvantage.

    I hope Starmer can start to relax and unzip from here. But it will be hard because this requires confidence and his confidence must be at a low ebb. He'll be feeling down and emotionally vulnerable, and this could mean he either goes more into his shell or tries to burst out of it in a way that looks a bit crazed and - oh no it's that word again - inauthentic.

    Tough times.
    Something I noticed about Sir Keir the other day that encapsulates his ability to annoy both sides whilst trying to do the right thing & not being a bad bloke

    He’s a vegetarian

    Who eats fish
    You mean he's an episcopalian?
    Pisky, in Scottish parlance. Or a Pesky? There is a fish internet direct-from-boat market called Pesky Fish ...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,070
    Selebian said:

    MaxPB said:

    I had chat this morning with one of our vaccine supply sources/experts. They said the government's second deal with Pfizer is what is allowing us to push ahead with loads of first doses for under 40s becuase the UK now has continuous supply from Pfizer where previously it was expected the 40m order would be fully delivered in the middle of July. Now Pfizer will increase deliveries from June onwards as it brings forwards the end of our original deal to June and starts delivering the new 60m order from the agreed Q3 date.

    It will also enable a drawdown of the ~4.5m Pfizer stockpile as well given how reliable the Pfizer deliveries have been and the receding threat of export blocks now that the EU has stopped moaning about vaccines.

    The source said that these two effects will mean the government will be able to cover all first doses for 18-39 year olds within the next 5 weeks and the new Pfizer deal will be used to cover second doses as for everyone who needs one plus the possibility of a second Pfizer dose for under 40s who got AZ as a first dose though they expect the latter to be done silently.

    On the last point (interesting to me as I'm a 39 year old who just had AZN a few days ago) what's the thinking, do you know?

    Because the Pfizer supply is just more reliable?
    For simplicity (just stock Pfizer)
    For safety (clots)
    For efficacy?

    For the third I didn't think there was any evidence yet of problems in those who had first dose without issue (granted not that many younger people have had second AZN yet, I guess) and for the fourth aren't we still awating results of the trial on mixing and matching?
    I think a combination of 2 and 3. On the fourth, yes we're waiting initial trial results but we know that there's no health risk to doing it so unless evidence to the contrary appears the recommendation is going to be only Pfizer/Moderna doses for under 40s, first or second.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,234
    Tony Blair must have got lost in the handover from Modern Studies to History.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 35,646
    TimT said:

    FPT TimT Posts: 3,659
    10:11AM
    IanB2 said:

    Exactly. The only weather station actually in Ventnor is the one in the park, which the town council pays a guy to monitor. He sends the readings off to the Met office at the end of every month, just for their records, but our local weather isn't actually recorded and published anywhere.

    The problem with a lot of weather sites - including the BBC - is that they extrapolate between what are actually fairly dispersed data points, and don't take account of local factors very well at all. For much of the country, that works reasonably well, but for somewhere like here that regularly has completely different weather to points just twenty minutes walk away over the hill, it doesn't work very well. Follow the link I posted earlier to our local Botanic Garden; they grow stuff there from Australia and the like that doesn't survive outside anywhere else in the UK.

    It's lovely and reasonably sunny here right now, so I am going out to do some light gardening. Without a coat or jumper ;)

    I responded:

    Including Roseland peninsula and Tresco? Plant survivability is generally about temperature lows, not averages or highs (although most C3 plants shut down once temperatures get into the 80s F).

    I would have thought Tresco Gardens would be capable of growing those Australian plants.

    Possibly, I'm not a plant expert. Alan Titchmarsh is, and here is what he has to say:

    Ventnor Botanic Garden, on the Isle of Wight, lies in the remarkable micro climate at the heart of the famous ‘Undercliff.’ This unique garden is protected from the cold northerly winds by chalk downs. Indeed, it holds the warmth from its southerly aspect so well that, combined with the moderating influence of the sea, frost is rarely known. When frost does occur it is usually of short duration and not great severity. With an average rainfall of 28 inches its climate is more akin to the Mediterranean. This enables a wide variety of plants considered too tender for much of mainland Britain to be grown.

    The Garden is unrivalled for its collections of subtropical plants grown unprotected out of doors. Botanic Gardens are becoming increasingly relevant in the face of the climate emergency. So how we garden, how we practice plant conservation, and how we operate is becoming as important as the plants themselves.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,264
    MaxPB said:

    Selebian said:

    MaxPB said:

    I had chat this morning with one of our vaccine supply sources/experts. They said the government's second deal with Pfizer is what is allowing us to push ahead with loads of first doses for under 40s becuase the UK now has continuous supply from Pfizer where previously it was expected the 40m order would be fully delivered in the middle of July. Now Pfizer will increase deliveries from June onwards as it brings forwards the end of our original deal to June and starts delivering the new 60m order from the agreed Q3 date.

    It will also enable a drawdown of the ~4.5m Pfizer stockpile as well given how reliable the Pfizer deliveries have been and the receding threat of export blocks now that the EU has stopped moaning about vaccines.

    The source said that these two effects will mean the government will be able to cover all first doses for 18-39 year olds within the next 5 weeks and the new Pfizer deal will be used to cover second doses as for everyone who needs one plus the possibility of a second Pfizer dose for under 40s who got AZ as a first dose though they expect the latter to be done silently.

    On the last point (interesting to me as I'm a 39 year old who just had AZN a few days ago) what's the thinking, do you know?

    Because the Pfizer supply is just more reliable?
    For simplicity (just stock Pfizer)
    For safety (clots)
    For efficacy?

    For the third I didn't think there was any evidence yet of problems in those who had first dose without issue (granted not that many younger people have had second AZN yet, I guess) and for the fourth aren't we still awating results of the trial on mixing and matching?
    I think a combination of 2 and 3. On the fourth, yes we're waiting initial trial results but we know that there's no health risk to doing it so unless evidence to the contrary appears the recommendation is going to be only Pfizer/Moderna doses for under 40s, first or second.
    Other than a higher incidence of mild to moderate side effects - ie days off with flu type symptoms. (Something like 3x as frequent.)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 14,989
    So Blair ought to pitch to be leader of the LibDems?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,483
    IanB2 said:

    FPT: Weather

    I've posted a photo I took from the balcony just five minutes ago, on my dog's Instagram:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CO2z5Gon6oH/

    I'll delete it later. Hopefully this first hand evidence will convince our Sean sitting in the London murk :)

    Off to the garden....

    Fair enough!

    That looks a lot nicer than the London Grey
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,264
    Russia’s oligarchs are now worth more than a third of the country’s GDP - making it the world’s most economically captured major country. One of many striking facts from this excellent @FTLifeArts essay on how Covid made the rich richer
    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1393111704251379712

    Curious that social democratic Sweden comes out as second on their list.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,327
    Doesn't surprise me, someone who is 18 now (which is ~18% of the 18-24 bucket) was what, 4 years old when Blair left? If they're not very politically engaged it is likely not surprising that they're not up to speed with what happened when they were 4.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,785
    I'd say an even greater proportion of those who voted for him didn't know who he really was.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,475
    edited May 14
    IanB2 said:

    TimT said:

    FPT TimT Posts: 3,659
    10:11AM
    IanB2 said:

    Exactly. The only weather station actually in Ventnor is the one in the park, which the town council pays a guy to monitor. He sends the readings off to the Met office at the end of every month, just for their records, but our local weather isn't actually recorded and published anywhere.

    The problem with a lot of weather sites - including the BBC - is that they extrapolate between what are actually fairly dispersed data points, and don't take account of local factors very well at all. For much of the country, that works reasonably well, but for somewhere like here that regularly has completely different weather to points just twenty minutes walk away over the hill, it doesn't work very well. Follow the link I posted earlier to our local Botanic Garden; they grow stuff there from Australia and the like that doesn't survive outside anywhere else in the UK.

    It's lovely and reasonably sunny here right now, so I am going out to do some light gardening. Without a coat or jumper ;)

    I responded:

    Including Roseland peninsula and Tresco? Plant survivability is generally about temperature lows, not averages or highs (although most C3 plants shut down once temperatures get into the 80s F).

    I would have thought Tresco Gardens would be capable of growing those Australian plants.

    Possibly, I'm not a plant expert. Alan Titchmarsh is, and here is what he has to say:

    Ventnor Botanic Garden, on the Isle of Wight, lies in the remarkable micro climate at the heart of the famous ‘Undercliff.’ This unique garden is protected from the cold northerly winds by chalk downs. Indeed, it holds the warmth from its southerly aspect so well that, combined with the moderating influence of the sea, frost is rarely known. When frost does occur it is usually of short duration and not great severity. With an average rainfall of 28 inches its climate is more akin to the Mediterranean. This enables a wide variety of plants considered too tender for much of mainland Britain to be grown.

    The Garden is unrivalled for its collections of subtropical plants grown unprotected out of doors. Botanic Gardens are becoming increasingly relevant in the face of the climate emergency. So how we garden, how we practice plant conservation, and how we operate is becoming as important as the plants themselves.
    On my bucket list. Indeed, perhaps my very next visit to Cornwall.

    https://www.tresco.co.uk/enjoying/abbey-garden

    *PS I note Titchmarsh talks of 'mainland Britain', which of course Tresco is not. Roseland is.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 24,453
    Carnyx said:

    FPT

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    Floater said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    The knee -

    This here comment of mine is not targeted at anyone on here - honest guv - but I do sense that for some the gesture is particularly upsetting because it smacks of supplication to the Black Man.

    Sorry. Nonsense. Only in your mind.
    Well there's no doubt - since it's widely expressed - that the 'supplicant' look of taking the knee gets a lot of goats.

    Now none of these goats will come out and say, "Yeah, making white people grovel and kneel for BLM, trying to turn the tables innit, well they can fuck right off!"

    But what makes you think there's none of that going on? There's some real rage out there about this gesture, remember, and some of those most angry are ... interesting people.

    Are you 100% sure it's all due to irritation at virtue signaling and dislike of Marxism? I'm not.
    I think you are overanalysing it, and so too are those that are against it. Although not a Labour supporter, I quite like Starmer and I think a lot of people are underestimating him on the basis of polls in a strange time, but I think he looked a bit silly genuflecting. he needs a better spin doctor.
    Not sure I am. I'm only suggesting there's a bit of this around in certain quarters.

    I agree on the staged "kneeling in office" shot. Bit wooden and inauthentic looking.
    You just summed Starmer up

    Bit wooden and inauthentic looking.
    Yep. Fair cop. It is an issue. For me, I prefer somebody with decorum because it shows they don't have the sort of insecure narcissism or inbred entitlement that makes them assume the world needs and wants to be exposed to lots of their "personality" on a regular basis. But I think I'm in a minority on this and in any case I accept that in these Reality TV days a political leader who is low key is at a tremendous disadvantage.

    I hope Starmer can start to relax and unzip from here. But it will be hard because this requires confidence and his confidence must be at a low ebb. He'll be feeling down and emotionally vulnerable, and this could mean he either goes more into his shell or tries to burst out of it in a way that looks a bit crazed and - oh no it's that word again - inauthentic.

    Tough times.
    Something I noticed about Sir Keir the other day that encapsulates his ability to annoy both sides whilst trying to do the right thing & not being a bad bloke

    He’s a vegetarian

    Who eats fish
    You mean he's an episcopalian?
    Pisky, in Scottish parlance. Or a Pesky? There is a fish internet direct-from-boat market called Pesky Fish ...
    Pisky, Pisky, Say Amen, Down on your knees and up again

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,558
    There's a widespread expectation among Westminster-based journalists and foreign correspondents reporting from London that a huge constitutional bust up between Sturgeon and Johnson is inevitable. But it's not clear the British government has to do anything 1/9
    ....

    In either event, the constitutional clash between London and Edinburgh doesn't happen. The 2nd referendum is stopped by Scots in Scottish courts by Scottish judges, with the Johnson government looking on. Not quite the SNP playbook. 9/9


    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1393201453863419909?s=20
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,475
    TimT said:

    IanB2 said:

    TimT said:

    FPT TimT Posts: 3,659
    10:11AM
    IanB2 said:

    Exactly. The only weather station actually in Ventnor is the one in the park, which the town council pays a guy to monitor. He sends the readings off to the Met office at the end of every month, just for their records, but our local weather isn't actually recorded and published anywhere.

    The problem with a lot of weather sites - including the BBC - is that they extrapolate between what are actually fairly dispersed data points, and don't take account of local factors very well at all. For much of the country, that works reasonably well, but for somewhere like here that regularly has completely different weather to points just twenty minutes walk away over the hill, it doesn't work very well. Follow the link I posted earlier to our local Botanic Garden; they grow stuff there from Australia and the like that doesn't survive outside anywhere else in the UK.

    It's lovely and reasonably sunny here right now, so I am going out to do some light gardening. Without a coat or jumper ;)

    I responded:

    Including Roseland peninsula and Tresco? Plant survivability is generally about temperature lows, not averages or highs (although most C3 plants shut down once temperatures get into the 80s F).

    I would have thought Tresco Gardens would be capable of growing those Australian plants.

    Possibly, I'm not a plant expert. Alan Titchmarsh is, and here is what he has to say:

    Ventnor Botanic Garden, on the Isle of Wight, lies in the remarkable micro climate at the heart of the famous ‘Undercliff.’ This unique garden is protected from the cold northerly winds by chalk downs. Indeed, it holds the warmth from its southerly aspect so well that, combined with the moderating influence of the sea, frost is rarely known. When frost does occur it is usually of short duration and not great severity. With an average rainfall of 28 inches its climate is more akin to the Mediterranean. This enables a wide variety of plants considered too tender for much of mainland Britain to be grown.

    The Garden is unrivalled for its collections of subtropical plants grown unprotected out of doors. Botanic Gardens are becoming increasingly relevant in the face of the climate emergency. So how we garden, how we practice plant conservation, and how we operate is becoming as important as the plants themselves.
    On my bucket list. Indeed, perhaps my very next visit to Cornwall.

    https://www.tresco.co.uk/enjoying/abbey-garden

    *PS I note Titchmarsh talks of 'mainland Britain', which of course Tresco is not. Roseland is.
    And where I got married:

    https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-historic-gravestones-amidst-sub-tropical-plants-st-just-in-roseland-84799327.html
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 24,453
    rcs1000 said:

    I'd say an even greater proportion of those who voted for him didn't know who he really was.

    I certainly didn't expect him to get involved in a war in the Middle East. Mind, I was blessed, at the elections when he first won, and then was defending, with two good Labour candidates.
    (WLL)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 40,785
    Nigelb said:

    Russia’s oligarchs are now worth more than a third of the country’s GDP - making it the world’s most economically captured major country. One of many striking facts from this excellent @FTLifeArts essay on how Covid made the rich richer
    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1393111704251379712

    Curious that social democratic Sweden comes out as second on their list.

    It's a curious measure, and not one I'd choose to use. One would think that smaller countries - which could be skewed by a single rich person or family - would tend to be higher up the list.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,412
    On topic - Would not many of us, of diverse views and varied politics, be willing to pay good money IF someone can come up with a fool proof way of making us forget that Tony Blair ever existed?

    Blessed are the clueless!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 89,095
    edited May 14
    18 year olds today would have been 4 when Blair left office, so unless they are historians or politically aware it is unsurprising a few of them don't know who he is.

    The most interesting thing on that chart is how much more popular Burnham is compared to Starmer or any other alternative Labour leader. Across the age range, whether Tory, Labour or LD, Leave or Remain or wherever they are in the UK voters think Burnham would make a better leader than Starmer.

    Starmer is still seen as a better leader for Labour now than Blair, Corbyn or Long Bailey though, so unless Burnham becomes an MP again and replaces Starmer there is little point replacing him
  • isamisam Posts: 38,125
    @kinabalu nice try with the insinuations of obsession, and verdict that it’s boring to fillet Sir Keir... but I won’t stop!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 351
    Only time I ever voted Labour in a GE was in the 1997 landslide. Sadly also the only time I was (unbeknownst to the naive young me) in a Lib Dem-Tory marginal. Since which time I've lived in safe Labour seats and voted Lib Dem.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,070
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russia’s oligarchs are now worth more than a third of the country’s GDP - making it the world’s most economically captured major country. One of many striking facts from this excellent @FTLifeArts essay on how Covid made the rich richer
    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1393111704251379712

    Curious that social democratic Sweden comes out as second on their list.

    It's a curious measure, and not one I'd choose to use. One would think that smaller countries - which could be skewed by a single rich person or family - would tend to be higher up the list.

    Yeah odd measure because GDP is income based and wealth is accumulation based. It's comparing two different classes and coming up with odd conclusions.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,136
    edited May 14
    Also interesting that 2019 Labour voters rate Jeremy higher than Tony as an alternative, although they prefer Keir to both. I thought that Tony had been somewhat rehabilitated in public opinion in the last couple of years, but evidently only to a limited extent.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,483
    On topic, I knew I was getting old - about 10 years ago - when an actual young adult (20 years old) turned to me in total bewilderment and said "Who or what are the Sex Pistols?"

    I realised that they were born ten years AFTER Sid Vicious died

    A 20 year old now might be similarly puzzled by "Oasis" and "Blur"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 67,997
    | NEW: Cressida Dick has announced that more police will be on the streets on Monday to stop the spread of the Indian variant
    :D:D:D
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,464
    isam said:

    @kinabalu nice try with the insinuations of obsession, and verdict that it’s boring to fillet Sir Keir... but I won’t stop!

    The exposure of obsession. :smile:

    But that's good you saw my final post PT. I was really happy with that one and worried it had missed its audience.
  • FossFoss Posts: 422
    Also, and harking back to last night...

    It's okay to eat fish
    Cause they don't have any feelings


    Nirvana - Something In The Way
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,070
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Selebian said:

    MaxPB said:

    I had chat this morning with one of our vaccine supply sources/experts. They said the government's second deal with Pfizer is what is allowing us to push ahead with loads of first doses for under 40s becuase the UK now has continuous supply from Pfizer where previously it was expected the 40m order would be fully delivered in the middle of July. Now Pfizer will increase deliveries from June onwards as it brings forwards the end of our original deal to June and starts delivering the new 60m order from the agreed Q3 date.

    It will also enable a drawdown of the ~4.5m Pfizer stockpile as well given how reliable the Pfizer deliveries have been and the receding threat of export blocks now that the EU has stopped moaning about vaccines.

    The source said that these two effects will mean the government will be able to cover all first doses for 18-39 year olds within the next 5 weeks and the new Pfizer deal will be used to cover second doses as for everyone who needs one plus the possibility of a second Pfizer dose for under 40s who got AZ as a first dose though they expect the latter to be done silently.

    On the last point (interesting to me as I'm a 39 year old who just had AZN a few days ago) what's the thinking, do you know?

    Because the Pfizer supply is just more reliable?
    For simplicity (just stock Pfizer)
    For safety (clots)
    For efficacy?

    For the third I didn't think there was any evidence yet of problems in those who had first dose without issue (granted not that many younger people have had second AZN yet, I guess) and for the fourth aren't we still awating results of the trial on mixing and matching?
    I think a combination of 2 and 3. On the fourth, yes we're waiting initial trial results but we know that there's no health risk to doing it so unless evidence to the contrary appears the recommendation is going to be only Pfizer/Moderna doses for under 40s, first or second.
    Other than a higher incidence of mild to moderate side effects - ie days off with flu type symptoms. (Something like 3x as frequent.)
    Was that with AZ first or second? Interesting either way.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 45,068

    There's a widespread expectation among Westminster-based journalists and foreign correspondents reporting from London that a huge constitutional bust up between Sturgeon and Johnson is inevitable. But it's not clear the British government has to do anything 1/9
    ....

    In either event, the constitutional clash between London and Edinburgh doesn't happen. The 2nd referendum is stopped by Scots in Scottish courts by Scottish judges, with the Johnson government looking on. Not quite the SNP playbook. 9/9


    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1393201453863419909?s=20

    Very plausable
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,449
    Leon said:

    On topic, I knew I was getting old - about 10 years ago - when an actual young adult (20 years old) turned to me in total bewilderment and said "Who or what are the Sex Pistols?"

    I realised that they were born ten years AFTER Sid Vicious died

    A 20 year old now might be similarly puzzled by "Oasis" and "Blur"

    Johnny Rotten is now a full time carer for his wife.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8870221/Former-Sex-Pistol-John-Lydon-tells-devotion-wife-Nora-Forster.html
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 495
    edited May 14
    It’s a shit business...

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,449
    MaxPB said:

    Selebian said:

    MaxPB said:

    I had chat this morning with one of our vaccine supply sources/experts. They said the government's second deal with Pfizer is what is allowing us to push ahead with loads of first doses for under 40s becuase the UK now has continuous supply from Pfizer where previously it was expected the 40m order would be fully delivered in the middle of July. Now Pfizer will increase deliveries from June onwards as it brings forwards the end of our original deal to June and starts delivering the new 60m order from the agreed Q3 date.

    It will also enable a drawdown of the ~4.5m Pfizer stockpile as well given how reliable the Pfizer deliveries have been and the receding threat of export blocks now that the EU has stopped moaning about vaccines.

    The source said that these two effects will mean the government will be able to cover all first doses for 18-39 year olds within the next 5 weeks and the new Pfizer deal will be used to cover second doses as for everyone who needs one plus the possibility of a second Pfizer dose for under 40s who got AZ as a first dose though they expect the latter to be done silently.

    On the last point (interesting to me as I'm a 39 year old who just had AZN a few days ago) what's the thinking, do you know?

    Because the Pfizer supply is just more reliable?
    For simplicity (just stock Pfizer)
    For safety (clots)
    For efficacy?

    For the third I didn't think there was any evidence yet of problems in those who had first dose without issue (granted not that many younger people have had second AZN yet, I guess) and for the fourth aren't we still awating results of the trial on mixing and matching?
    I think a combination of 2 and 3. On the fourth, yes we're waiting initial trial results but we know that there's no health risk to doing it so unless evidence to the contrary appears the recommendation is going to be only Pfizer/Moderna doses for under 40s, first or second.
    Does that mean we won't end up using any Novavax in the first phase?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,070

    MaxPB said:

    Selebian said:

    MaxPB said:

    I had chat this morning with one of our vaccine supply sources/experts. They said the government's second deal with Pfizer is what is allowing us to push ahead with loads of first doses for under 40s becuase the UK now has continuous supply from Pfizer where previously it was expected the 40m order would be fully delivered in the middle of July. Now Pfizer will increase deliveries from June onwards as it brings forwards the end of our original deal to June and starts delivering the new 60m order from the agreed Q3 date.

    It will also enable a drawdown of the ~4.5m Pfizer stockpile as well given how reliable the Pfizer deliveries have been and the receding threat of export blocks now that the EU has stopped moaning about vaccines.

    The source said that these two effects will mean the government will be able to cover all first doses for 18-39 year olds within the next 5 weeks and the new Pfizer deal will be used to cover second doses as for everyone who needs one plus the possibility of a second Pfizer dose for under 40s who got AZ as a first dose though they expect the latter to be done silently.

    On the last point (interesting to me as I'm a 39 year old who just had AZN a few days ago) what's the thinking, do you know?

    Because the Pfizer supply is just more reliable?
    For simplicity (just stock Pfizer)
    For safety (clots)
    For efficacy?

    For the third I didn't think there was any evidence yet of problems in those who had first dose without issue (granted not that many younger people have had second AZN yet, I guess) and for the fourth aren't we still awating results of the trial on mixing and matching?
    I think a combination of 2 and 3. On the fourth, yes we're waiting initial trial results but we know that there's no health risk to doing it so unless evidence to the contrary appears the recommendation is going to be only Pfizer/Moderna doses for under 40s, first or second.
    Does that mean we won't end up using any Novavax in the first phase?
    Possibly, but it has got really good stats against variants so could be part of the booster programme. There will also be some stragglers who refuse the vaccine that will get it when they realise they can't go to Pakistan or Nigeria without having it and Novavax may get given to those people as it only needs a two week gap for 96% efficacy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,483
    This is grim

    Israeli Jews chuckling as they talk about wiping out the Arabs. Not settlers, "normal" folk

    https://twitter.com/EmpireFiles/status/1393015740291162120?s=20


    Unfortunately, I can believe this is true. I was in Israel ten years ago and I heard very racist stuff from kids, and I feared for the future, then
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,558
    Today's thought experiment: trying to imagine what Owen Jones et al would be tweeting if a Tory had called for Diane Abbott to be deported.

    https://twitter.com/francesweetman/status/1393156378836062209?s=20
  • isamisam Posts: 38,125
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    @kinabalu nice try with the insinuations of obsession, and verdict that it’s boring to fillet Sir Keir... but I won’t stop!

    The exposure of obsession. :smile:

    But that's good you saw my final post PT. I was really happy with that one and worried it had missed its audience.
    This is my safe space to nerd out, and I like to make the most of it
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,483

    Leon said:

    On topic, I knew I was getting old - about 10 years ago - when an actual young adult (20 years old) turned to me in total bewilderment and said "Who or what are the Sex Pistols?"

    I realised that they were born ten years AFTER Sid Vicious died

    A 20 year old now might be similarly puzzled by "Oasis" and "Blur"

    Johnny Rotten is now a full time carer for his wife.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8870221/Former-Sex-Pistol-John-Lydon-tells-devotion-wife-Nora-Forster.html
    That's sad, but also lol
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 10,327
    The rate of increase in positive tests has definitely slowed in the past few days, which is slightly interesting. Deaths bouncing along the floor, not sure they will go much lower given the 28-day rule.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,777

    Today's thought experiment: trying to imagine what Owen Jones et al would be tweeting if a Tory had called for Diane Abbott to be deported.

    https://twitter.com/francesweetman/status/1393156378836062209?s=20

    "The explosion was tremendous, lighting up the night like the wrath of God, and it rained fire twenty blocks away."
  • pingping Posts: 1,298
    Leon said:

    This is grim

    Israeli Jews chuckling as they talk about wiping out the Arabs. Not settlers, "normal" folk

    https://twitter.com/EmpireFiles/status/1393015740291162120?s=20


    Unfortunately, I can believe this is true. I was in Israel ten years ago and I heard very racist stuff from kids, and I feared for the future, then

    It is truly awful.

    Peace is far away.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,483
    NB:

    Looks like that video from Israel is 5 years old. So somewhat inflammatory to put it out now?

    Still shocking, of course
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,558
    People like Beckett cannot see Priti Patel, Sajid Javid, Trever Phillips etc... as minorities because minorities support their views. It's a really ugly blind spot.


    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1393160472908771332?s=20
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    Leon said:

    This is grim

    Israeli Jews chuckling as they talk about wiping out the Arabs. Not settlers, "normal" folk

    https://twitter.com/EmpireFiles/status/1393015740291162120?s=20


    Unfortunately, I can believe this is true. I was in Israel ten years ago and I heard very racist stuff from kids, and I feared for the future, then

    “We conquered these places.... they are ours”.

    “Devine justice”.

    Yuck.

    It’s the same lines you get from IS in reverse.

    I do have some limited empathy on the basis that I might just want to carpet bomb Dublin, irrespective of who started the dispute, if the Irish lobbed rockets at us every night for a week; but empathy on an emotional level only. We need to walk them back from the ledge or this will just get worse and worse.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 68,915
    ping said:

    Leon said:

    This is grim

    Israeli Jews chuckling as they talk about wiping out the Arabs. Not settlers, "normal" folk

    https://twitter.com/EmpireFiles/status/1393015740291162120?s=20


    Unfortunately, I can believe this is true. I was in Israel ten years ago and I heard very racist stuff from kids, and I feared for the future, then

    It is truly awful.

    Peace is far away.
    A lot of people believe in peace. Peace of the grave.

    I just try not to think about it, its all hopeless. Any solution will come of left field and totally unpredictable I'd guess.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 3,902

    The rate of increase in positive tests has definitely slowed in the past few days, which is slightly interesting. Deaths bouncing along the floor, not sure they will go much lower given the 28-day rule.

    Its possible a lot of Indian British returned home, tested positive, passed on to close contacts, who are now testing positive, but not getting out of control, partly due to high background immunity. We'll see.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,777
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    It feels like we’re testing the link between hospitalisations and cases. In a way this might be a good thing - prove once and for all the link is fracturing and we can declare victory and move on.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,777
    UK cases summary

    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,777
    UK hospitals

    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,777
    UK deaths

    11th was clearly a spike

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,777
    UK R

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,777
    Age related data

    image
    image
    image
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,483

    Leon said:

    This is grim

    Israeli Jews chuckling as they talk about wiping out the Arabs. Not settlers, "normal" folk

    https://twitter.com/EmpireFiles/status/1393015740291162120?s=20


    Unfortunately, I can believe this is true. I was in Israel ten years ago and I heard very racist stuff from kids, and I feared for the future, then

    “We conquered these places.... they are ours”.

    “Devine justice”.

    Yuck.

    It’s the same lines you get from IS in reverse.

    I do have some limited empathy on the basis that I might just want to carpet bomb Dublin, irrespective of who started the dispute, if the Irish lobbed rockets at us every night for a week; but empathy on an emotional level only. We need to walk them back from the ledge or this will just get worse and worse.
    When I was in Israel ten years ago I witnessed horrible racist chanting at football grounds. It's a major problem in Israeli football

    "Beitar Jerusalem fans: 'Here we are, we're the most racist football team in the country'"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJOV_cN-JP8

    It was largely kids age 12-20, and it was obvious what lay ahead. It is a perverse irony that some Jews have turned into Nazis
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,777
    Age related data scaled two 100k per age group

    image
    image
    image
  • FishingFishing Posts: 2,973
    edited May 14
    Whereas rather more than one in nine of those over 25 just WISH they didn't know who Tony Blair was.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,777
    UK vaccinations

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,558

    Age related data scaled two 100k per age group

    How do you stop Vanilla from posting tiny images?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,777
    CFR

    image
    image
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    People like Beckett cannot see Priti Patel, Sajid Javid, Trever Phillips etc... as minorities because minorities support their views. It's a really ugly blind spot.


    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1393160472908771332?s=20

    The Blessed Owen has weighed in:

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,558
    Johnson Press Conference delayed to 17.30.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 14,586

    There's a widespread expectation among Westminster-based journalists and foreign correspondents reporting from London that a huge constitutional bust up between Sturgeon and Johnson is inevitable. But it's not clear the British government has to do anything 1/9
    ....

    In either event, the constitutional clash between London and Edinburgh doesn't happen. The 2nd referendum is stopped by Scots in Scottish courts by Scottish judges, with the Johnson government looking on. Not quite the SNP playbook. 9/9


    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1393201453863419909?s=20

    Very plausable
    Doesn't surprise me, esp after the prorogation case (which had Unionists astounded as the UKSC wouldn't override Scots law as she is spoke in Parliament Square - remember).

    The law does need to be checked and tested, but the issue always was that the law itself was incompatible with the mandates conferred on the Scottish Pmt. Which will put the ball in the Westminster court sooner or later.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,483
    Something more cheerful

    This is exquisite and touching

    "Exhilarated to have just stumbled across this rare and glorious depiction of a woman in the act of writing in a fresco from Herculaneum.
    The actor looks on a little disapprovingly but the expression on the face of the theatrical mask says it all. Just wonderful. #FrescoFriday"


    https://twitter.com/pompei79/status/1393149485623222278?s=20
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 35,646
    Weather update: garden thermometer says 13C in the shade.

    In the intermittent sunshine, it is perfectly warm enough to be doing some light gardening in just a shirt. If you were sitting still you’d probably want a second layer of clothing. But it is 4.30pm already.

    That ice cream van isn’t doing much trade. Although there are some in town who have suggested that its range extends some way beyond the items pictured on the outside of the van; certainly it does seem to come round at some funny times.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,125
    ...

    People like Beckett cannot see Priti Patel, Sajid Javid, Trever Phillips etc... as minorities because minorities support their views. It's a really ugly blind spot.


    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1393160472908771332?s=20

    The far left think Thatcher didn’t really count as a female PM too. Ethnic minorities and women need to know their place
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,412
    meanwhile back at the ranch . . .

    In California, the biggest challenge that Governor Gavin Newsom faces in this year's California gubernatorial recall election, is NOT the Republican Party, certainly not Donald Trumspsky, Caitlyn Jenner, "Boo-Boo" Cox or other strange manifestations of MAGA.

    It's the high probability, or rather the impending reality, of significant power shortages, brownouts, etc. during the long, hot summer of 2021 before the recall vote takes place.

    No wonder the GOP is so blase about global warming.

    Not to say that Newsom is condemned to become just another crispy critter littering the Golden State landscape. Just that all eyes - often red & teary from the smoke - will be upon him and his leadership.

    Personally think that California voters will reject the recall and retain Newsome. Certainly Jenner is NOT a persuasive argument against the Gov (or for herself) and the rest of the GOP ditto.

    With possible exception of former two-term mayor of San Diego Kevin Faulconer, fiscally conservative, socially moderate, definitely not a wing-nut; note he said in 2016 that he would NOT vote for Trumpsky that year.

    On the other hand, Faulconer IS pragmatist re: current GOP situation, to be saying in 2021, that he voted for Trumpsky in 2020.

    So girls, boys & what-have-yous, stay tuned for yet another thrilling episode, brought to you by the good folks from Smogkist Raisins and the Stanford Lampoon of "Tales of the Great Bear Republic" . . .

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,558
    A pay increase for NHS staff is to be “immediately implemented”, the Scottish Government has announced.

    Following talks, a majority of NHS unions voted to accept a deal offering an average increase of 4%.

    The uplift will be backdated to December 1, 2020, and and will cover a period of 16 months.

    It is in “recognition of an exceptional year of significant pressure for staff”, the Scottish Government said, and will be on top of the £500 thank-you payment for health and social care workers.


    https://news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-government-announces-4-pay-rise-for-nhs-workers?top

    I suppose the business support money they haven't spent has to go somewhere...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,412
    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful

    This is exquisite and touching

    "Exhilarated to have just stumbled across this rare and glorious depiction of a woman in the act of writing in a fresco from Herculaneum.
    The actor looks on a little disapprovingly but the expression on the face of the theatrical mask says it all. Just wonderful. #FrescoFriday"


    https://twitter.com/pompei79/status/1393149485623222278?s=20

    Just goes to show, that even after two millennia, actors STILL can't escape their critics!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 18,777
    UK Summary

    Cases were rising in the unvaccinated groups. They may or may not be rising now - need more data.

    Hospital admissions seem to have flattened across the age groups.

    image
    image
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,483
    edited May 14

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful

    This is exquisite and touching

    "Exhilarated to have just stumbled across this rare and glorious depiction of a woman in the act of writing in a fresco from Herculaneum.
    The actor looks on a little disapprovingly but the expression on the face of the theatrical mask says it all. Just wonderful. #FrescoFriday"


    https://twitter.com/pompei79/status/1393149485623222278?s=20

    Just goes to show, that even after two millennia, actors STILL can't escape their critics!
    The painting of the actor's face is masterful. Also looks like an Italian version of Ed Miliband

    It could be a painting by a Roman David Hockney, so light and gracious. These are real people, they lived like us, looked like us. Look at the woman's hair. Brilliant
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,264
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Russia’s oligarchs are now worth more than a third of the country’s GDP - making it the world’s most economically captured major country. One of many striking facts from this excellent @FTLifeArts essay on how Covid made the rich richer
    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1393111704251379712

    Curious that social democratic Sweden comes out as second on their list.

    It's a curious measure, and not one I'd choose to use. One would think that smaller countries - which could be skewed by a single rich person or family - would tend to be higher up the list.

    It's a flawed measure, but nonetheless interesting.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 4,595
    edited May 14
    "The slightest suspicion that someone may be entering Britain to work is often enough for them to be locked up, held at detention centres for up to a week and then expelled to wherever they have travelled from, some of those caught up by the policy have said.

    An Italian NHS consultant told of his horror when his niece arrived from Italy for a short visit but ended up in a detention centre surrounded by barbed wire.

    There is growing anger over what campaigners and MEPs have said is a “disproportionate” and “heavy-handed” implementation of post-Brexit immigration restrictions on EU citizens.

    On Friday the EU’s co-chair of the post Brexit UK-EU partnership council, Maroš Šefčovič, told a group of Romanian MEPs he would be raising it with the UK authorities.

    Giuseppe Pichierri, who has worked for the NHS for 15 years, told the Guardian he had waited for hours at Heathrow airport on 17 April with his four-year-old daughter to collect his 24-year-old niece Marta Lomartire with balloons and cards.

    But she did not show. She had been stopped, quizzed and issued with an expulsion order before being locked up in Colnbrook detention centre for the night.

    Pichierri took his tearful daughter home and was called in the middle of the night and told Lomartire was being taken into detention. “We were never approached or told where she was,” he said. The following day, despite being on call at Kingston hospital, he tracked her down to Colnbrook and had to travel to the detention centre to meet Lomartire, who was scared and upset."

    The ugly face of Brexit - and the best way to thank NHS workers. You can be certain the European negotiating teams are taking notes, as mentioned in the article, and as I mentioned yesterday.
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 470
    The vast majority have heard of him even though they were only 10 years of age or younger when he retired.
    Sometimes older leftists on the internet still bemoan Mrs Thatcher even blaming her for problems that exist today, I wonder how many under 25s know who she was.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    meanwhile back at the ranch . . .

    In California, the biggest challenge that Governor Gavin Newsom faces in this year's California gubernatorial recall election, is NOT the Republican Party, certainly not Donald Trumspsky, Caitlyn Jenner, "Boo-Boo" Cox or other strange manifestations of MAGA.

    It's the high probability, or rather the impending reality, of significant power shortages, brownouts, etc. during the long, hot summer of 2021 before the recall vote takes place.

    No wonder the GOP is so blase about global warming.

    Not to say that Newsom is condemned to become just another crispy critter littering the Golden State landscape. Just that all eyes - often red & teary from the smoke - will be upon him and his leadership.

    Personally think that California voters will reject the recall and retain Newsome. Certainly Jenner is NOT a persuasive argument against the Gov (or for herself) and the rest of the GOP ditto.

    With possible exception of former two-term mayor of San Diego Kevin Faulconer, fiscally conservative, socially moderate, definitely not a wing-nut; note he said in 2016 that he would NOT vote for Trumpsky that year.

    On the other hand, Faulconer IS pragmatist re: current GOP situation, to be saying in 2021, that he voted for Trumpsky in 2020.

    So girls, boys & what-have-yous, stay tuned for yet another thrilling episode, brought to you by the good folks from Smogkist Raisins and the Stanford Lampoon of "Tales of the Great Bear Republic" . . .

    I still don't understand the Newsom recall vote.

    Its a bit like holding a vote in Islington to recall Jeremy Corbyn
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 35,646
    edited May 14

    "The slightest suspicion that someone may be entering Britain to work is often enough for them to be locked up, held at detention centres for up to a week and then expelled to wherever they have travelled from, some of those caught up by the policy have said.

    An Italian NHS consultant told of his horror when his niece arrived from Italy for a short visit but ended up in a detention centre surrounded by barbed wire.

    There is growing anger over what campaigners and MEPs have said is a “disproportionate” and “heavy-handed” implementation of post-Brexit immigration restrictions on EU citizens.

    On Friday the EU’s co-chair of the post Brexit UK-EU partnership council, Maroš Šefčovič, told a group of Romanian MEPs he would be raising it with the UK authorities.

    Giuseppe Pichierri, who has worked for the NHS for 15 years, told the Guardian he had waited for hours at Heathrow airport on 17 April with his four-year-old daughter to collect his 24-year-old niece Marta Lomartire with balloons and cards.

    But she did not show. She had been stopped, quizzed and issued with an expulsion order before being locked up in Colnbrook detention centre for the night.

    Pichierri took his tearful daughter home and was called in the middle of the night and told Lomartire was being taken into detention. “We were never approached or told where she was,” he said. The following day, despite being on call at Kingston hospital, he tracked her down to Colnbrook and had to travel to the detention centre to meet Lomartire, who was scared and upset."

    The ugly face of Brexit - and the best way to thank NHS workers. The European negotiating teams will certainly be taking notes, as mentioned in the article, and I mentioned yesterday.

    Don’t worry - when I posted this yesterday, our PB Tories were adamant that they are all criminals or illegal immigrants and that locking them up is too good for them.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,464
    DeClare said:

    The vast majority have heard of him even though they were only 10 years of age or younger when he retired.
    Sometimes older leftists on the internet still bemoan Mrs Thatcher even blaming her for problems that exist today, I wonder how many under 25s know who she was.

    Wasn't there a poll where young people thought Hitler was a good guy?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 2,973
    edited May 14
    isam said:

    ...

    People like Beckett cannot see Priti Patel, Sajid Javid, Trever Phillips etc... as minorities because minorities support their views. It's a really ugly blind spot.


    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1393160472908771332?s=20

    The far left think Thatcher didn’t really count as a female PM too. Ethnic minorities and women need to know their place
    I think what they really can't stand is that she got to the top an stayed there for 11 years on merit, without quotas, female-only shortlists or positive discirmination of any kind.

    And that she had more balls than any of them.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,558
    Covid update: FM @NicolaSturgeon confirms Glasgow and Moray to remain in level 3 for at least another week when restrictions are eased in rest of Scotland on May 17th

    https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1393227892780412936?s=20
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,264
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Selebian said:

    MaxPB said:

    I had chat this morning with one of our vaccine supply sources/experts. They said the government's second deal with Pfizer is what is allowing us to push ahead with loads of first doses for under 40s becuase the UK now has continuous supply from Pfizer where previously it was expected the 40m order would be fully delivered in the middle of July. Now Pfizer will increase deliveries from June onwards as it brings forwards the end of our original deal to June and starts delivering the new 60m order from the agreed Q3 date.

    It will also enable a drawdown of the ~4.5m Pfizer stockpile as well given how reliable the Pfizer deliveries have been and the receding threat of export blocks now that the EU has stopped moaning about vaccines.

    The source said that these two effects will mean the government will be able to cover all first doses for 18-39 year olds within the next 5 weeks and the new Pfizer deal will be used to cover second doses as for everyone who needs one plus the possibility of a second Pfizer dose for under 40s who got AZ as a first dose though they expect the latter to be done silently.

    On the last point (interesting to me as I'm a 39 year old who just had AZN a few days ago) what's the thinking, do you know?

    Because the Pfizer supply is just more reliable?
    For simplicity (just stock Pfizer)
    For safety (clots)
    For efficacy?

    For the third I didn't think there was any evidence yet of problems in those who had first dose without issue (granted not that many younger people have had second AZN yet, I guess) and for the fourth aren't we still awating results of the trial on mixing and matching?
    I think a combination of 2 and 3. On the fourth, yes we're waiting initial trial results but we know that there's no health risk to doing it so unless evidence to the contrary appears the recommendation is going to be only Pfizer/Moderna doses for under 40s, first or second.
    Other than a higher incidence of mild to moderate side effects - ie days off with flu type symptoms. (Something like 3x as frequent.)
    Was that with AZ first or second? Interesting either way.
    AZN first, I think.
    (I don't have time to retrieve the article.)

    This is a good account of why the medical establishment resisted the aerosol transmission story for what seems like a ridiculous amount of time.

    The 60-Year-Old Scientific Screwup That Covid Helped Kill
    https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This is grim

    Israeli Jews chuckling as they talk about wiping out the Arabs. Not settlers, "normal" folk

    https://twitter.com/EmpireFiles/status/1393015740291162120?s=20


    Unfortunately, I can believe this is true. I was in Israel ten years ago and I heard very racist stuff from kids, and I feared for the future, then

    “We conquered these places.... they are ours”.

    “Devine justice”.

    Yuck.

    It’s the same lines you get from IS in reverse.

    I do have some limited empathy on the basis that I might just want to carpet bomb Dublin, irrespective of who started the dispute, if the Irish lobbed rockets at us every night for a week; but empathy on an emotional level only. We need to walk them back from the ledge or this will just get worse and worse.
    When I was in Israel ten years ago I witnessed horrible racist chanting at football grounds. It's a major problem in Israeli football

    "Beitar Jerusalem fans: 'Here we are, we're the most racist football team in the country'"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJOV_cN-JP8

    It was largely kids age 12-20, and it was obvious what lay ahead. It is a perverse irony that some Jews have turned into Nazis
    Yes, I’ve always been careful about the sensitivity of that analogy, but it’s hard not to think of it more and more.

    Because this is the internet, and you’re only ever one step away from being called all sorts of names, I will also emphasise that I have no time at all for Hammas. But then the passing of the PLO and a chance for peace was kind of the Israeli’s fault too.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 516
    edited May 14

    "The slightest suspicion that someone may be entering Britain to work is often enough for them to be locked up, held at detention centres for up to a week and then expelled to wherever they have travelled from, some of those caught up by the policy have said.

    An Italian NHS consultant told of his horror when his niece arrived from Italy for a short visit but ended up in a detention centre surrounded by barbed wire.

    There is growing anger over what campaigners and MEPs have said is a “disproportionate” and “heavy-handed” implementation of post-Brexit immigration restrictions on EU citizens.

    On Friday the EU’s co-chair of the post Brexit UK-EU partnership council, Maroš Šefčovič, told a group of Romanian MEPs he would be raising it with the UK authorities.

    Giuseppe Pichierri, who has worked for the NHS for 15 years, told the Guardian he had waited for hours at Heathrow airport on 17 April with his four-year-old daughter to collect his 24-year-old niece Marta Lomartire with balloons and cards.

    But she did not show. She had been stopped, quizzed and issued with an expulsion order before being locked up in Colnbrook detention centre for the night.

    Pichierri took his tearful daughter home and was called in the middle of the night and told Lomartire was being taken into detention. “We were never approached or told where she was,” he said. The following day, despite being on call at Kingston hospital, he tracked her down to Colnbrook and had to travel to the detention centre to meet Lomartire, who was scared and upset."

    The ugly face of Brexit - and the best way to thank NHS workers. You can be certain the European negotiating teams are taking notes, as mentioned in the article, and as I mentioned yesterday.

    As much as I agree that it's heavy handed (if you ask me the Home Office is rotten to the core and needs to be dismantled and rebuilt from scratch), why would the European negotiating teams be "taking notes"?

    We're not in the EU and we have our own immigration policy. We're treating them how we would treat non-EU nationals now. We have no obligation to give them special treatment and I object to The Guardian complaining about the plight of white Europeans having to stay a night in detention when people fleeing persecution have been locked up in these places for weeks or months on end unfairly.
  • HarryFreemanHarryFreeman Posts: 210
    edited May 14

    Covid update: FM @NicolaSturgeon confirms Glasgow and Moray to remain in level 3 for at least another week when restrictions are eased in rest of Scotland on May 17th

    https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1393227892780412936?s=20


    She's taken her "eye off the ball" again.

    She will do anything to keep the pubs shut - puritan nonsense.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,483

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This is grim

    Israeli Jews chuckling as they talk about wiping out the Arabs. Not settlers, "normal" folk

    https://twitter.com/EmpireFiles/status/1393015740291162120?s=20


    Unfortunately, I can believe this is true. I was in Israel ten years ago and I heard very racist stuff from kids, and I feared for the future, then

    “We conquered these places.... they are ours”.

    “Devine justice”.

    Yuck.

    It’s the same lines you get from IS in reverse.

    I do have some limited empathy on the basis that I might just want to carpet bomb Dublin, irrespective of who started the dispute, if the Irish lobbed rockets at us every night for a week; but empathy on an emotional level only. We need to walk them back from the ledge or this will just get worse and worse.
    When I was in Israel ten years ago I witnessed horrible racist chanting at football grounds. It's a major problem in Israeli football

    "Beitar Jerusalem fans: 'Here we are, we're the most racist football team in the country'"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJOV_cN-JP8

    It was largely kids age 12-20, and it was obvious what lay ahead. It is a perverse irony that some Jews have turned into Nazis
    Yes, I’ve always been careful about the sensitivity of that analogy, but it’s hard not to think of it more and more.

    Because this is the internet, and you’re only ever one step away from being called all sorts of names, I will also emphasise that I have no time at all for Hammas. But then the passing of the PLO and a chance for peace was kind of the Israeli’s fault too.
    If you laughingly talk about genocide to camera, you are going to get comparisons with Hitler's Germany

    Like others on here, I can't see any "resolution" - other than a horrible, final, all-out war? I generally turn away in quiet despair
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,459
    edited May 14
    Edwin Poots has been elected leader of the DUP.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 14,989
    Poot Poot!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 33,264
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Something more cheerful

    This is exquisite and touching

    "Exhilarated to have just stumbled across this rare and glorious depiction of a woman in the act of writing in a fresco from Herculaneum.
    The actor looks on a little disapprovingly but the expression on the face of the theatrical mask says it all. Just wonderful. #FrescoFriday"


    https://twitter.com/pompei79/status/1393149485623222278?s=20

    Just goes to show, that even after two millennia, actors STILL can't escape their critics!
    The painting of the actor's face is masterful. Also looks like an Italian version of Ed Miliband...
    I got more of an older Rupert Everett vibe.
    Particularly the expression.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 14,989
    Fishing said:

    isam said:

    ...

    People like Beckett cannot see Priti Patel, Sajid Javid, Trever Phillips etc... as minorities because minorities support their views. It's a really ugly blind spot.


    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1393160472908771332?s=20

    The far left think Thatcher didn’t really count as a female PM too. Ethnic minorities and women need to know their place
    I think what they really can't stand is that she got to the top an stayed there for 11 years on merit, without quotas, female-only shortlists or positive discirmination of any kind.

    And that she had more balls than any of them.
    "What about the vegetables?"

    "They'll have the same."
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,412

    meanwhile back at the ranch . . .

    In California, the biggest challenge that Governor Gavin Newsom faces in this year's California gubernatorial recall election, is NOT the Republican Party, certainly not Donald Trumspsky, Caitlyn Jenner, "Boo-Boo" Cox or other strange manifestations of MAGA.

    It's the high probability, or rather the impending reality, of significant power shortages, brownouts, etc. during the long, hot summer of 2021 before the recall vote takes place.

    No wonder the GOP is so blase about global warming.

    Not to say that Newsom is condemned to become just another crispy critter littering the Golden State landscape. Just that all eyes - often red & teary from the smoke - will be upon him and his leadership.

    Personally think that California voters will reject the recall and retain Newsome. Certainly Jenner is NOT a persuasive argument against the Gov (or for herself) and the rest of the GOP ditto.

    With possible exception of former two-term mayor of San Diego Kevin Faulconer, fiscally conservative, socially moderate, definitely not a wing-nut; note he said in 2016 that he would NOT vote for Trumpsky that year.

    On the other hand, Faulconer IS pragmatist re: current GOP situation, to be saying in 2021, that he voted for Trumpsky in 2020.

    So girls, boys & what-have-yous, stay tuned for yet another thrilling episode, brought to you by the good folks from Smogkist Raisins and the Stanford Lampoon of "Tales of the Great Bear Republic" . . .

    I still don't understand the Newsom recall vote.

    Its a bit like holding a vote in Islington to recall Jeremy Corbyn
    You are NOT alone!

    Several factors including

    > Gavin Newsom got his fanny in a wee bit of a crack via some cluelessness similar in some ways to Boris Johnson for example the French Laundry affair.

    > MAGA hordes are mad including plenty (its a big state) who actually convince themselves (esp. in interior regions where GOP is locally dominant) that state was stolen from Trumpsky.

    > Golden State is, always has been & always will be the Mother Lode for con-artists, faith-healers and other grifters of all crimes and creeds, including political; this is simply TOO good an opportunity for Trumpsky insiders and other scoundrels to pass up, when they can make a mint via the recall and recall campaign (in an otherwise off-year election) regardless of the final outcome.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,558
    BREAK: Edwin Poots elected as the new leader of the DUP

    Reminder Poots is a young earth creationist and rejects the theory of evolution

    In an interview with BBC presenter William Crawley, when asked how old the Earth was, Poots replied: "My view on the earth is that it's a young earth. My view is 4,000 BC


    https://twitter.com/DarrenGBNews/status/1393230280559841284?s=20
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,412
    Andy_JS said:

    Edwin Poots has been elected leader of the DUP.

    "Give two hoots - vote for Poots!"

    Nice for a party NOT known for its sense of humor (hardly!) to start contributing (even feebly) to the jollification of the Union.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 11,483
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Edwin Poots has been elected leader of the DUP.

    The first of his family to achieve that in the entire 6 025 year history of the Universe!
    Some achievement.
    Very good
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,412
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Edwin Poots has been elected leader of the DUP.

    The first of his family to achieve that in the entire 6 025 year history of the Universe!
    Some achievement.
    Personally am NOT convinced that Sir Isaac Newton was really a democrat, a unionist (though he was knighted by Queen Anne) or what you'd call a party animal.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 2,973
    IanB2 said:

    "The slightest suspicion that someone may be entering Britain to work is often enough for them to be locked up, held at detention centres for up to a week and then expelled to wherever they have travelled from, some of those caught up by the policy have said.

    An Italian NHS consultant told of his horror when his niece arrived from Italy for a short visit but ended up in a detention centre surrounded by barbed wire.

    There is growing anger over what campaigners and MEPs have said is a “disproportionate” and “heavy-handed” implementation of post-Brexit immigration restrictions on EU citizens.

    On Friday the EU’s co-chair of the post Brexit UK-EU partnership council, Maroš Šefčovič, told a group of Romanian MEPs he would be raising it with the UK authorities.

    Giuseppe Pichierri, who has worked for the NHS for 15 years, told the Guardian he had waited for hours at Heathrow airport on 17 April with his four-year-old daughter to collect his 24-year-old niece Marta Lomartire with balloons and cards.

    But she did not show. She had been stopped, quizzed and issued with an expulsion order before being locked up in Colnbrook detention centre for the night.

    Pichierri took his tearful daughter home and was called in the middle of the night and told Lomartire was being taken into detention. “We were never approached or told where she was,” he said. The following day, despite being on call at Kingston hospital, he tracked her down to Colnbrook and had to travel to the detention centre to meet Lomartire, who was scared and upset."

    The ugly face of Brexit - and the best way to thank NHS workers. The European negotiating teams will certainly be taking notes, as mentioned in the article, and I mentioned yesterday.

    Don’t worry - when I posted this yesterday, our PB Tories were adamant that they are all criminals or illegal immigrants and that locking them up is too good for them.
    I'd be fine with freedom of movement with Italy, and all the old EU-15. We should propose it to the countries individually.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 24,464
    So it's Poots. Could this be a sign that the long, cold reactionary winter that started in 2016 is over and progressives are just starting to inch forward now - even in Northern Ireland?
This discussion has been closed.