Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

The joys of first past the post – politicalbetting.com

1246

Comments

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562

    Been hoping to see some really strong vaccination ramp-ups in Europe, as their supply starts to flow.

    This is not that. The French target for 15 June is to make it to where the UK was on 27 March - a week before Easter.


    https://twitter.com/PaulMainwood/status/1388913719971885058?s=20

    As I've been saying all along - there's a 10 to 12 week gap between the UK/US and the EU.

    That being said:

    The UK combined the vaccination programme with a lockdown (as did Israel and California). I think that is by far the most efficient way to rid a country of CV19, as you don't have the problem of lots of infectious people. I think it's really tough to conquer CV19 just using vaccinations, because you have millions of infectious people and tends of millions of unvaccinated ones.

    Against that France in mid-June will have done more total jabs than the UK had at end March, as they're (foolishly IMHO) following manufacturer guidance on spacing. And France is predominantly using Pfizer - and that confers protection a bit quicker than AZ.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475
    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, just 2 hours to the Line of Duty finale!

    Definately the TV event of the year.

    I see what you did there.

    Ideally we would be able to go and watch it in a pub somewhere. But most will be ram packed. Ideally we would be able to find a quiet out of the way one with a screen.

    Any ideas?
    It won't be Hastings.
    I still don't fully understand the £50,000.
    At the end of last series 100k was recovered from the OCG gang but Hastings kept the 50K and gave it to the widow of the officer played by Stephen Graham
    Ah! Thanks. So a good 'un. Did he keep the other half? I know he had money problems. But isn't he supposed to be whiter than white?
    No, he returned it. His money problems from last season haven’t been mentioned this time.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, just 2 hours to the Line of Duty finale!

    Definately the TV event of the year.

    Is that finishing already? Feels like only yesterday that people starting banging on about it.

    BBC still incapable of doing a full length series I'm guessing?
    Philip we get your view of the BBC but that doesn't mean everything it produces is no good. Around an unprecedented 11m people will be tuning in tonight including yours truly. Just accept that people believe the BBC offers good quality programming and move on.
    Oh I have no doubt that the BBC is capable of making about 4 hours of what people consider to be good TV a year.

    I just don't think that's good value for money at all.
    As we have rehearsed on here many times TV is but one part of what the BBC does. And I think it gets beyond 4 hrs.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, just 2 hours to the Line of Duty finale!

    Definately the TV event of the year.

    Is that finishing already? Feels like only yesterday that people starting banging on about it.

    BBC still incapable of doing a full length series I'm guessing?
    Philip we get your view of the BBC but that doesn't mean everything it produces is no good. Around an unprecedented 11m people will be tuning in tonight including yours truly. Just accept that people believe the BBC offers good quality programming and move on.
    Oh I have no doubt that the BBC is capable of making about 4 hours of what people consider to be good TV a year.

    I just don't think that's good value for money at all.
    Good value or not I don’t see why people should be forced to fund it just to receive live TV signals, even if they don’t want to watch it. 60 years ago a license fee could be justified. Nowadays with the proliferation of channels it’s becoming harder to.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984
    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, just 2 hours to the Line of Duty finale!

    Definately the TV event of the year.

    I see what you did there.

    Ideally we would be able to go and watch it in a pub somewhere. But most will be ram packed. Ideally we would be able to find a quiet out of the way one with a screen.

    Any ideas?
    It won't be Hastings.
    I still don't fully understand the £50,000.
    At the end of last series 100k was recovered from the OCG gang but Hastings kept the 50K and gave it to the widow of the officer played by Stephen Graham
    Ah! Thanks. So a good 'un. Did he keep the other half? I know he had money problems. But isn't he supposed to be whiter than white?
    No, he returned it. His money problems from last season haven’t been mentioned this time.
    Excellent thanks. I only hope that Adrian Dunbar wins the BAFTA this time. He is just fantastic
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, just 2 hours to the Line of Duty finale!

    Definately the TV event of the year.

    Is that finishing already? Feels like only yesterday that people starting banging on about it.

    BBC still incapable of doing a full length series I'm guessing?
    Philip we get your view of the BBC but that doesn't mean everything it produces is no good. Around an unprecedented 11m people will be tuning in tonight including yours truly. Just accept that people believe the BBC offers good quality programming and move on.
    Oh I have no doubt that the BBC is capable of making about 4 hours of what people consider to be good TV a year.

    I just don't think that's good value for money at all.
    With hindsight, you wonder if they were a bit unlucky in the pioneering role they took in online streaming.

    If they’d come in 3/4 years later, they would have had better tech to work with, rather then getting stuck with their early not very good platform. They might have seen the potential and prioritised quality over quantity (after all, they have acres of stuff to pad out daytime schedules) and begun to explore a PPV model, maybe trialling it abroad.

    As it is, they’ve now got themselves stuck between a rock and a hard place. They’ve got a live model that clearly has a limited shelf life, and an online model that doesn’t compare well to Netflix, Amazon and Disney. But the best of the Beeb’s output is still far better than any of those.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, just 2 hours to the Line of Duty finale!

    Definately the TV event of the year.

    Is that finishing already? Feels like only yesterday that people starting banging on about it.

    BBC still incapable of doing a full length series I'm guessing?
    Philip we get your view of the BBC but that doesn't mean everything it produces is no good. Around an unprecedented 11m people will be tuning in tonight including yours truly. Just accept that people believe the BBC offers good quality programming and move on.
    Oh I have no doubt that the BBC is capable of making about 4 hours of what people consider to be good TV a year.

    I just don't think that's good value for money at all.
    With hindsight, you wonder if they were a bit unlucky in the pioneering role they took in online streaming.

    If they’d come in 3/4 years later, they would have had better tech to work with, rather then getting stuck with their early not very good platform. They might have seen the potential and prioritised quality over quantity (after all, they have acres of stuff to pad out daytime schedules) and begun to explore a PPV model, maybe trialling it abroad.

    As it is, they’ve now got themselves stuck between a rock and a hard place. They’ve got a live model that clearly has a limited shelf life, and an online model that doesn’t compare well to Netflix, Amazon and Disney. But the best of the Beeb’s output is still far better than any of those.

    They certainly screwed up big style with BBC Store. Moving into a model when others were moving away from it. Britbox came a couple of years too late
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984
    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, just 2 hours to the Line of Duty finale!

    Definately the TV event of the year.

    Is that finishing already? Feels like only yesterday that people starting banging on about it.

    BBC still incapable of doing a full length series I'm guessing?
    Philip we get your view of the BBC but that doesn't mean everything it produces is no good. Around an unprecedented 11m people will be tuning in tonight including yours truly. Just accept that people believe the BBC offers good quality programming and move on.
    Oh I have no doubt that the BBC is capable of making about 4 hours of what people consider to be good TV a year.

    I just don't think that's good value for money at all.
    Good value or not I don’t see why people should be forced to fund it just to receive live TV signals, even if they don’t want to watch it. 60 years ago a license fee could be justified. Nowadays with the proliferation of channels it’s becoming harder to.
    I agree absolutely. As does Philip!

    At another moment we will have a(nother) discussion about the BBC. For the moment we are on countdown to 9pm.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475
    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, just 2 hours to the Line of Duty finale!

    Definately the TV event of the year.

    Is that finishing already? Feels like only yesterday that people starting banging on about it.

    BBC still incapable of doing a full length series I'm guessing?
    Philip we get your view of the BBC but that doesn't mean everything it produces is no good. Around an unprecedented 11m people will be tuning in tonight including yours truly. Just accept that people believe the BBC offers good quality programming and move on.
    Oh I have no doubt that the BBC is capable of making about 4 hours of what people consider to be good TV a year.

    I just don't think that's good value for money at all.
    Good value or not I don’t see why people should be forced to fund it just to receive live TV signals, even if they don’t want to watch it. 60 years ago a license fee could be justified. Nowadays with the proliferation of channels it’s becoming harder to.
    I agree absolutely. As does Philip!

    At another moment we will have a(nother) discussion about the BBC. For the moment we are on countdown to 9pm.
    I just hope the wee donkey makes an appearance.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,721

    kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Slightly curious part of my latest election material (now at 8 LD, 4 Con, and 1 parish level indy) where it exhorts me to 'Vote Conservative and only Conservative', with 'only' underlined.

    They don't have sufficient candidates for the ward and the other options are LDs or an Indy, so it seems self defeating to encourage me to not to even consider voting anyone else to 'stop' their main opponents, even if they could hardly advise me to vote for the Indy over the LDs. Feels like they could have talked about stopping the LDs, and let it be implied any extra non-conservative votes could go to that effort.

    In an FPTnP multi-seat election, you are at a disadvantage if you don’t put up a full slate of candidates, since many of your voters will use their remaining vote(s) for your opponents. This is what your under-staffed Tories are trying to head off.
    Another classic of FPTP and which, not unreasonably most voters will be unaware of when they go out to vote. They quite reasonably vote for their preferred option, have votes leftover use them for what they perceive to be the best of the rest and don't realize they have just unelected their preferred candidates.

    Bonkers system.
    FPTP works best with single member constituencies.

    Using FPTP with multimember constituencies is just weird.
    Used to be very common in UK, esp. for English borough elections to House of Commons, to elect two MPs from same constituency.

    Quite often IF a town had two leading aristo (or burgher) families, they would split the seats in order to avoid the controversy and (especially) expense of contested elections.

    Later on, same thing happened in two-member with respect to political parties. For example, Liberals and (early) Labour would agree to each run a candidate, and thus try to keep (or kick) the Tories out.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Yorkshire beat Northants by one run.

    Streaming county cricket on YouTube is great.

    If the Man U fans get bored, could they please go down to Bristol and disrupt play?

    I have a horrible feeling that's the only thing that can save Glaws from total humiliation here.
    I think when I give up teaching - which I am planning to do in a year or so’s time unless the entirety of the DfE, OFSTED, OFQUAL and their fellow posh, stupid, lazy, rude, cowardly, selfish bullies like Topping and Roger all suffer painful and amusing accidents - I think I will go in for cricket commentary.

    I just seem to have the most extraordinary talent for changing the course of events. Just imagine how exciting my commentary would make Test cricket. Why, it might even make the Hundred interesting.

    No way should Gloucestershire have won that. But they did. And they now top Group 2. The toughest group.

    Poor old Leicestershire though. What a disappointment. How often do you set 348 and lose?
    The shame of it is that there are also good teachers leaving as well as the dross like you.

    Still, your never going to be pupils will be better off
    Well, they won’t be. Because I am a good teacher, and they like me.

    But you know that, as you have been told slowly and distinctly in words of one syllable, and choose to lie about it. Repeatedly. Including by deliberately libelling me requiring intervention from the mods, which really does show what a scumbag you are.

    So I was wrong. I missed out ‘hypocritical’ and ‘dishonest’ as well.

    The tragedy is that you can’t see that it is loathsome people like you that are the problem. Why should we put up with trash talk from somebody who demands others work under conditions he could never face himself?

    No wonder you are so sensitive on your record as an officer. Your character suggests you must have been a truly awful one, and I do feel desperately sorry for anyone who served under your command.

    I’m going to go back to ignoring you because ultimately (1) you are not really aworth paying attention to for all the above mentioned reasons (as most other posters seem to think from the way they react to you) and (2) such quarrels are boring for everyone else.

    But I wanted you to be clear, in that thing you call your brain, just how despicable you really are.

    Good evening, and good bye.
    LOL tl/dr: the truth hurts.

    Good luck in your new career.
    And your qualifications for pronouncing on the situation of teachers are what, exactly ?

    (& FWIW, I wish I’d had a history teacher as good as @ydoethur when I was in school,)
    Hi Nigel.

    I have extensive recognition of the bleedin' obvious qualifications. But it is all moot as he has acknowledged reality and is quitting the teaching profession.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,477
    This past week we have averaged
    (124,321 / 401,834) per day

    In the fortnight coming up we could split that

    200032 / 333123 every day.

    So first doses might go up hopefully...
  • PamelaWPamelaW Posts: 17
    As I mentioned below, I do not see PR coming about till Labour realizes it cannot win a GE outright. This is not the case yet but I believe will become more likely after GE2024.

    Now I know an awful lot can happen before 2024, never mind 2029, but does anyone know approximately how many current Labour MPs support PR for Westminster please? Presumably over 50? How many Tories if any? Thanks

    Pamela
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    edited May 2

    kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Slightly curious part of my latest election material (now at 8 LD, 4 Con, and 1 parish level indy) where it exhorts me to 'Vote Conservative and only Conservative', with 'only' underlined.

    They don't have sufficient candidates for the ward and the other options are LDs or an Indy, so it seems self defeating to encourage me to not to even consider voting anyone else to 'stop' their main opponents, even if they could hardly advise me to vote for the Indy over the LDs. Feels like they could have talked about stopping the LDs, and let it be implied any extra non-conservative votes could go to that effort.

    In an FPTnP multi-seat election, you are at a disadvantage if you don’t put up a full slate of candidates, since many of your voters will use their remaining vote(s) for your opponents. This is what your under-staffed Tories are trying to head off.
    Another classic of FPTP and which, not unreasonably most voters will be unaware of when they go out to vote. They quite reasonably vote for their preferred option, have votes leftover use them for what they perceive to be the best of the rest and don't realize they have just unelected their preferred candidates.

    Bonkers system.
    FPTP works best with single member constituencies.

    Using FPTP with multimember constituencies is just weird.
    Used to be very common in UK, esp. for English borough elections to House of Commons, to elect two MPs from same constituency.

    Quite often IF a town had two leading aristo (or burgher) families, they would split the seats in order to avoid the controversy and (especially) expense of contested elections.

    Later on, same thing happened in two-member with respect to political parties. For example, Liberals and (early) Labour would agree to each run a candidate, and thus try to keep (or kick) the Tories out.
    Until 1832 pretty well all seats Borough and county - returned two members. They were the norm right down to 1885. There were exceptions - the Welsh county seats and borough seats with the exception of Monmouthshire springs to mind - but they were very much exceptions, not norms.

    In fact, I don’t think two member constituencies were finally abolished until the university seats were removed in 1948.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 1,914
    When someone coughs in the crowd at the snooker I wonder how many people around them are nervously looking.

    On the flipside it does seem to have limited the persistent coughing gang.

    This is my pointless observation for the day.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,721
    Politico.com - ‘There’s a lot of crazy going on’: Pro-Trump lawyer blows up key GOP race
    Lin Wood’s smash-mouth bid to become South Carolina party chair is rattling one of the Republican Party’s most important states.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/05/02/lin-wood-south-carolina-race-485189

    Trumpsky - the give that keeps on giving!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984
    Foxy said:

    @ydoethur

    Sorry to hear that you are leaving the profession. Best wishes for the future.

    In my profession too often the best ones want to leave, precisely because they care. The lazy, the greedy, the arrogant and the sociopaths never have the insight to have crises of faith. Indeed one of the best doctors that I know quit for a year, and did casual work on building sites, mostly as a roofer. One day, while they were all on a break, the others talked him into going back. The consensus was that the world needed doctors like him.

    Exactly how many lazy, greedy, arrogant psychopath GPs are in practice right now do you think?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,721
    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Slightly curious part of my latest election material (now at 8 LD, 4 Con, and 1 parish level indy) where it exhorts me to 'Vote Conservative and only Conservative', with 'only' underlined.

    They don't have sufficient candidates for the ward and the other options are LDs or an Indy, so it seems self defeating to encourage me to not to even consider voting anyone else to 'stop' their main opponents, even if they could hardly advise me to vote for the Indy over the LDs. Feels like they could have talked about stopping the LDs, and let it be implied any extra non-conservative votes could go to that effort.

    In an FPTnP multi-seat election, you are at a disadvantage if you don’t put up a full slate of candidates, since many of your voters will use their remaining vote(s) for your opponents. This is what your under-staffed Tories are trying to head off.
    Another classic of FPTP and which, not unreasonably most voters will be unaware of when they go out to vote. They quite reasonably vote for their preferred option, have votes leftover use them for what they perceive to be the best of the rest and don't realize they have just unelected their preferred candidates.

    Bonkers system.
    FPTP works best with single member constituencies.

    Using FPTP with multimember constituencies is just weird.
    Used to be very common in UK, esp. for English borough elections to House of Commons, to elect two MPs from same constituency.

    Quite often IF a town had two leading aristo (or burgher) families, they would split the seats in order to avoid the controversy and (especially) expense of contested elections.

    Later on, same thing happened in two-member with respect to political parties. For example, Liberals and (early) Labour would agree to each run a candidate, and thus try to keep (or kick) the Tories out.
    Until 1832 pretty well all seats Borough and county - returned two members. They were the norm right down to 1885. There were exceptions - the Welsh county seats and borough seats with the exception of Monmouthshire springs to mind - but they were very much exceptions, not norms.

    In fact, I don’t think two member constituencies were finally abolished until the university seats were removed in 1948.
    Yes. Another exception were Scottish burghs, which were clustered in groups, each group electing one MP every general election, with each burgh in the group getting its turn in rotation.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    edited May 2
    Foxy said:

    @ydoethur

    Sorry to hear that you are leaving the profession. Best wishes for the future.

    In my profession too often the best ones want to leave, precisely because they care. The lazy, the greedy, the arrogant and the sociopaths never have the insight to have crises of faith. Indeed one of the best doctors that I know quit for a year, and did casual work on building sites, mostly as a roofer. One day, while they were all on a break, the others talked him into going back. The consensus was that the world needed doctors like him.

    Thanks for the pep talk.

    I haven’t finally decided yet. It’s possible I may instead go part time. Or go into tutoring. But truthfully, I just cannot deal with all the abuse I’m getting from all quarters for trying to do my job under the impossible circumstances demanded by the current government. Especially as I don’t actually need the money. I can earn more than enough from music and writing to survive. I teach because I enjoy it, both for itself and because I’m very good at it and like most of us I enjoy things I’m good at. But if I’m not enjoying it - then why bother?

    At least you guys have people cheering you on. We get abused for pointing out the strain we’re under. (Edited edit - I may have to withdraw that part...)

    Edit - I’d add that huge numbers of teachers at this moment is dreaming of getting out, but for most it’s much harder. If you have a family, a mortgage and no savings, you can’t just walk away from a job no matter what it’s doing to you. You have to something to go to.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,364
    As for the events of a decade ago, some selective re-writing of history.

    I was a LD member at the time and at the time there was a lot of debate within the party as to the "terms" we should seek in the event of a Parliament where no one party had an overall majority. There were those who advocated PR as a "red line" and others who didn't see it as that important as the greater needs of governance (particularly at a time of financial crisis and huge uncertainty) were considerations of more paramount concern.

    Clegg and those around him thought, in order to enter a coalition with either the Conservatives or Labour, there would have to be "something" on constitutional and electoral reform - a bone to throw the party, half of which were likely to be deeply hostile to any plan.

    I suspect the Conservatives were not prepared to countenance a referendum with STV as an option (I suspect Labour were of similar mind). Both parties of course knew that STV would permanently end any chance of an outright majority for either side and neither were prepared to even have that on a ballot paper.

    STV was and has always been the LD electoral system of choice - now, Clegg could and perhaps should have walked away when that wasn't on offer but the problem was the Party feared the reaction to an aborted negotiation. It would appear the LDs weren't "serious", they only wanted power on their terms and for all their talk of multi-party politics, they were only interested in themselves etc.

    Perhaps that storm could and should have been weathered - given what has happened since, it might not have been the worst option.

    Both the Conservatives and Labour were prepared to offer AV - now, AV is not proportional and has never been LD policy so why Clegg accepted the Conservative referendum on AV is a mystery. Perhaps he was fooled by Cleggmania into thinking the power of his own personality would be enough to sway public opinion - it's a mistake politicians better than him have made and continue to make.

    As others have said, the other option would have been STV for local elections only. That would have been a shrewder position for the LDs - whether the Conservatives would have gone along with that in 2010 is something you'll have to ask someone else. It would have been an easier "sell" for Conservative MPs.

    That should have been Clegg's "red line" but he saw the prospect of getting some parts of LD policy enacted even if that meant pushing through areas of Conservative policy to which many of the party were opposed but that's the price you pay for doing the deal.

    The alternative was not to do the deal and precipitate a second GE within 6-12 months which perhaps Cameron would have won anyway or there would have been a second inconclusive result at which point, perhaps, the options for the LDs and electoral reform would have been very different.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 4,372
    edited May 2
    PamelaW said:

    Hello Everyone and thank you TSE for this interesting article on Electoral Reform.

    I voted Yes in AV referendum but perhaps mistakenly in the hope it was the first step towards PR.

    As the No side won, they have unfairly used the result as validation against PR which it isn't as AV may be determined to be closer to FPTP than to PR.

    Surely I am not the only to believe the way to achieve PR is for both 1&2 to happen.
    1. Tories win GE 2024 with an overall majority. Most important meaning Labour then have lost 5 consecutive GEs.
    2. Realizing they are likely to lose subsequent GE, Tories hang on till 2029 which results in no overall majority with Labour having most seats. Labour form either Coalition or Pact with Libdems who insist on PR preferably without referendum or grudgingly to having one first. Obviously this would depend on number of Labour MP supporters of PR at that time which I suspect could be a substantial number having lost 5 GEs. I suspect Labour would choose AMS as they did for Scotland and Wales 22 years ago.

    In this scenario knowing they would have less seats in subsequent GE, Labour hang on till 2034 at which point we our first PR GE.

    Kind regards

    Pamela

    Thank you for this very interesting analysis. Two comments if I may: I think it likely that the UK population will just hate the idea of PR and given a choice will vote against it - the AV referendum is some evidence for this. There is a high chance that people will believe simply that 'change means worse' and that a system slightly hard to understand is a system that will be manipulated. FWIW I take that view.

    The sheer simplicity and ruthlessness of FPTP has much to commend it.

    Secondly all analysis about future events of this sort - subject to human whim and so on - going up to 2034 is like trying to say where the chess pieces will be in 15 moves time. Endlessly interesting, as is your suggestion, but there is lots of water to flow under that particular bridge.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    @ydoethur

    Sorry to hear that you are leaving the profession. Best wishes for the future.

    In my profession too often the best ones want to leave, precisely because they care. The lazy, the greedy, the arrogant and the sociopaths never have the insight to have crises of faith. Indeed one of the best doctors that I know quit for a year, and did casual work on building sites, mostly as a roofer. One day, while they were all on a break, the others talked him into going back. The consensus was that the world needed doctors like him.

    Exactly how many lazy, greedy, arrogant psychopath GPs are in practice right now do you think?
    As most GPs I know are thinking of quitting, not many by my criterion.

    There are some, after all there is an arsehole element in every population. It is the nature of humanity, and mostly a problem when they have power over others. It is one reason that I dislike hierarchical organisations.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, just 2 hours to the Line of Duty finale!

    Definately the TV event of the year.

    I see what you did there.

    Ideally we would be able to go and watch it in a pub somewhere. But most will be ram packed. Ideally we would be able to find a quiet out of the way one with a screen.

    Any ideas?
    It won't be Hastings.
    I still don't fully understand the £50,000.
    At the end of last series 100k was recovered from the OCG gang but Hastings kept the 50K and gave it to the widow of the officer played by Stephen Graham
    Ah! Thanks. So a good 'un. Did he keep the other half? I know he had money problems. But isn't he supposed to be whiter than white?
    I only started watching the show about a month ago. If the real police were even 10% like the tv version then we're totally screwed, as even when they're the heroes the anti-corruption ones are compromised.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    edited May 2
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    @ydoethur

    Sorry to hear that you are leaving the profession. Best wishes for the future.

    In my profession too often the best ones want to leave, precisely because they care. The lazy, the greedy, the arrogant and the sociopaths never have the insight to have crises of faith. Indeed one of the best doctors that I know quit for a year, and did casual work on building sites, mostly as a roofer. One day, while they were all on a break, the others talked him into going back. The consensus was that the world needed doctors like him.

    Exactly how many lazy, greedy, arrogant psychopath GPs are in practice right now do you think?
    As most GPs I know are thinking of quitting, not many by my criterion.

    There are some, after all there is an arsehole element in every population. It is the nature of humanity, and mostly a problem when they have power over others. It is one reason that I dislike hierarchical organisations.
    I can’t help wondering if the GP model might be another casualty of the pandemic.

    I haven’t actually had a GP since 2003, although I’ve been registered at various practices. I see whoever’s free. And very often if I have an infection (which for some reason I’m prone to) I just go to drop in at the nearby MIU.

    And it sounds as though they’re facing the same issues teachers are in terms of frustration.

    Do you think a way round it could be evolved?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,753
    "@NaomiOhReally
    As a condition for receiving its chunk of EU Covid-19 recovery money, the European Commission will push Ireland to address "aggressive tax planning", the Irish Times understands"

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/european-commission-to-pressure-ireland-on-tax-in-recovery-fund-plan-1.4552634
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    "@NaomiOhReally
    As a condition for receiving its chunk of EU Covid-19 recovery money, the European Commission will push Ireland to address "aggressive tax planning", the Irish Times understands"

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/european-commission-to-pressure-ireland-on-tax-in-recovery-fund-plan-1.4552634

    Have they said the same to Luxembourg?
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 15,214
    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1388571648027148294

    Anyone saying this scandal has not impacted BoJo is not being truthful.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984
    edited May 2
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    @ydoethur

    Sorry to hear that you are leaving the profession. Best wishes for the future.

    In my profession too often the best ones want to leave, precisely because they care. The lazy, the greedy, the arrogant and the sociopaths never have the insight to have crises of faith. Indeed one of the best doctors that I know quit for a year, and did casual work on building sites, mostly as a roofer. One day, while they were all on a break, the others talked him into going back. The consensus was that the world needed doctors like him.

    Exactly how many lazy, greedy, arrogant psychopath GPs are in practice right now do you think?
    As most GPs I know are thinking of quitting, not many by my criterion.

    There are some, after all there is an arsehole element in every population. It is the nature of humanity, and mostly a problem when they have power over others. It is one reason that I dislike hierarchical organisations.
    Are you thinking of quitting?
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    edited May 2
    I never know if o/t means on topic or off topic?

    Anyway on topic I guess part of the problem was that the AV electoral reform system which was offered was a complete fudge. Nick Clegg should've driven a much harder bargain with Cameron on this and, no, not just at local level but something a whole load more coherent.

    That's if you believe in PR. AV wasn't proper PR.

    As for Scotland I'm beginning to wonder if the union is going to be Johnson's undoing. There are big problems in N Ireland as pointed out in a thread y'day and we are likely headed for an almighty bust-up north of the border. Whatever that guy HYUFD says if the Scots vote for an SNP majority then there will have to be a second indyref. Brexit fundamentally altered the constitutional fabric of the UK. But besides it's just hideous English weasel words to try and hide behind 'Westminster decision' on this. If the circs are as just described there will have to be a referendum.

    There's absolutely no guarantee the Scots will vote for independence and that should be the focus of the tory party.

    That's if you believe in the union.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984
    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, just 2 hours to the Line of Duty finale!

    Definately the TV event of the year.

    I see what you did there.

    Ideally we would be able to go and watch it in a pub somewhere. But most will be ram packed. Ideally we would be able to find a quiet out of the way one with a screen.

    Any ideas?
    It won't be Hastings.
    I still don't fully understand the £50,000.
    At the end of last series 100k was recovered from the OCG gang but Hastings kept the 50K and gave it to the widow of the officer played by Stephen Graham
    Ah! Thanks. So a good 'un. Did he keep the other half? I know he had money problems. But isn't he supposed to be whiter than white?
    I only started watching the show about a month ago. If the real police were even 10% like the tv version then we're totally screwed, as even when they're the heroes the anti-corruption ones are compromised.
    I think part of the attraction is that we read newspaper headlines of this or that police corruption and think ha there you go whereas I'm sure it's far less than 10%. Or at least I hope it is.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    edited May 2
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    @ydoethur

    Sorry to hear that you are leaving the profession. Best wishes for the future.

    In my profession too often the best ones want to leave, precisely because they care. The lazy, the greedy, the arrogant and the sociopaths never have the insight to have crises of faith. Indeed one of the best doctors that I know quit for a year, and did casual work on building sites, mostly as a roofer. One day, while they were all on a break, the others talked him into going back. The consensus was that the world needed doctors like him.

    Exactly how many lazy, greedy, arrogant psychopath GPs are in practice right now do you think?
    As most GPs I know are thinking of quitting, not many by my criterion.

    There are some, after all there is an arsehole element in every population. It is the nature of humanity, and mostly a problem when they have power over others. It is one reason that I dislike hierarchical organisations.
    I can’t help wondering if the GP model might be another casualty of the pandemic.

    I haven’t actually had a GP since 2003, although I’ve been registered at various practices. I see whoever’s free. And very often if I have an infection (which for some reason I’m prone to) I just go to drop in at the nearby MIU.

    And it sounds as though they’re facing the same issues teachers are in terms of frustration.

    Do you think a way round it could be evolved?
    I am not a GP, though think I would have liked it, at least for a bit. The problem is open ended demand, with no real way to control it, other than obstructions to access. In a system that doesn't charge that is always going to be a problem. Like teachers, and police, a lot of clients problems are societal, and it is only possible to trim around the edges. We have to accept that we are not Atlas and try to hold up the world, we need to savour the small victories.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,721
    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, just 2 hours to the Line of Duty finale!

    Definately the TV event of the year.

    I see what you did there.

    Ideally we would be able to go and watch it in a pub somewhere. But most will be ram packed. Ideally we would be able to find a quiet out of the way one with a screen.

    Any ideas?
    It won't be Hastings.
    I still don't fully understand the £50,000.
    At the end of last series 100k was recovered from the OCG gang but Hastings kept the 50K and gave it to the widow of the officer played by Stephen Graham
    Ah! Thanks. So a good 'un. Did he keep the other half? I know he had money problems. But isn't he supposed to be whiter than white?
    I only started watching the show about a month ago. If the real police were even 10% like the tv version then we're totally screwed, as even when they're the heroes the anti-corruption ones are compromised.
    Speaking of the Forces of Order, in yesterday's Texas local elections, voters in San Antonio narrowly defeated measure that would have stripped city police of their collective bargaining rights.

    Proposition B For 73,306 (48.8%) Against 76,781 (51.2%)

    Still a few votes left to count, but not very many.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984

    I never know if o/t means on topic or off topic?

    Anyway on topic I guess part of the problem was that the AV electoral reform system which was offered was a complete fudge. Nick Clegg should've driven a much harder bargain with Cameron on this and, no, not just at local level but something a whole load more coherent.

    That's if you believe in PR. AV wasn't proper PR.

    As for Scotland I'm beginning to wonder if the union is going to be Johnson's undoing. There are big problems in N Ireland as pointed out in a thread y'day and we are likely headed for an almighty bust-up north of the border. Whatever that guy HYUFD days if the Scots vote for an SNP majority then there will have to be a second indyref. Brexit fundamentally altered the constitutional fabric of the UK. But besides it's just hideous English weasel words to try and hide behind 'Westminster decision' on this. If the circs are as just described there will have to be a referendum.

    There's absolutely no guarantee the Scots will vote for independence and that should be the focus of the tory party.

    That's if you believe in the union.

    There is no such thing as being off topic here.

    The rest of your post was about PR I believe so I didn't read it.

    :smile:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    I never know if o/t means on topic or off topic?

    Anyway on topic I guess part of the problem was that the AV electoral reform system which was offered was a complete fudge. Nick Clegg should've driven a much harder bargain with Cameron on this and, no, not just at local level but something a whole load more coherent.

    That's if you believe in PR. AV wasn't proper PR.

    As for Scotland I'm beginning to wonder if the union is going to be Johnson's undoing. There are big problems in N Ireland as pointed out in a thread y'day and we are likely headed for an almighty bust-up north of the border. Whatever that guy HYUFD says if the Scots vote for an SNP majority then there will have to be a second indyref. Brexit fundamentally altered the constitutional fabric of the UK. But besides it's just hideous English weasel words to try and hide behind 'Westminster decision' on this. If the circs are as just described there will have to be a referendum.

    There's absolutely no guarantee the Scots will vote for independence and that should be the focus of the tory party.

    That's if you believe in the union.

    Does our current PM believe in the Union?

    If so it would be a dramatic break with tradition. His whole career indicates he only believes in himself.
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    TOPPING said:

    I never know if o/t means on topic or off topic?

    Anyway on topic I guess part of the problem was that the AV electoral reform system which was offered was a complete fudge. Nick Clegg should've driven a much harder bargain with Cameron on this and, no, not just at local level but something a whole load more coherent.

    That's if you believe in PR. AV wasn't proper PR.

    As for Scotland I'm beginning to wonder if the union is going to be Johnson's undoing. There are big problems in N Ireland as pointed out in a thread y'day and we are likely headed for an almighty bust-up north of the border. Whatever that guy HYUFD days if the Scots vote for an SNP majority then there will have to be a second indyref. Brexit fundamentally altered the constitutional fabric of the UK. But besides it's just hideous English weasel words to try and hide behind 'Westminster decision' on this. If the circs are as just described there will have to be a referendum.

    There's absolutely no guarantee the Scots will vote for independence and that should be the focus of the tory party.

    That's if you believe in the union.



    The rest of your post was about PR I believe so I didn't read it.

    :smile:
    No half of it was about the union and the Scottish issue.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972
    What's Line of Duty?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984

    TOPPING said:

    I never know if o/t means on topic or off topic?

    Anyway on topic I guess part of the problem was that the AV electoral reform system which was offered was a complete fudge. Nick Clegg should've driven a much harder bargain with Cameron on this and, no, not just at local level but something a whole load more coherent.

    That's if you believe in PR. AV wasn't proper PR.

    As for Scotland I'm beginning to wonder if the union is going to be Johnson's undoing. There are big problems in N Ireland as pointed out in a thread y'day and we are likely headed for an almighty bust-up north of the border. Whatever that guy HYUFD days if the Scots vote for an SNP majority then there will have to be a second indyref. Brexit fundamentally altered the constitutional fabric of the UK. But besides it's just hideous English weasel words to try and hide behind 'Westminster decision' on this. If the circs are as just described there will have to be a referendum.

    There's absolutely no guarantee the Scots will vote for independence and that should be the focus of the tory party.

    That's if you believe in the union.



    The rest of your post was about PR I believe so I didn't read it.

    :smile:
    No half of it was about the union and the Scottish issue.
    Ah well that is the power of putting "PR" at the beginning of a post.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    It’s not been a great for Leicestershire sporting wise.

    Their cricketers lost an unloseable match and poor old Mark Selby is having an absolute mare against Murphy.

    *waits expectantly for Selby to knock in three consecutive 147s*
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Raab preparing the ground for ongoing measures after June 21st. The government needs to be straight with us, will we ever get the old normal back or not. Starmer needs to start asking these fucking questions now, not idiotic shite about wallpaper and nannies. We need clarity now, not mealy mouthed bullshit from ministers who have clearly made the judgement call despite the evidence and data showing vaccines are enough to keep the virus under control.

    What has he been saying?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56964296

    Mr Raab said the UK was "in a good position" to "get life back as close to normal as possible".

    The foreign secretary told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show: "But there will still need to be some safeguards in place."

    There's no party that wants to let go of this all powerful toolset they've been given over our lives. As soon as the virus is defeated (and it already is, tbh) they won't be able to rule over every minutiae of our lives, how far apart we need to sit from each other, making us check in to all venues so they know where everyone is at all times, whether or not people can have sex with perfect strangers. The politicians don't want to give up control of anything.
    Liberal Democrats.

    I don't know if I will be able to bring myself to vote for them on Thursday, though. I'll be like Jim Carrey in Liar Liar trying to write that the colour of the pen is red.

    Maybe I'll tick the LD box and also write, USUALLY TORY - END COVID LAWS on my ballot.

    If it's spoilt and doesn't count, I don't care. If it is at least they know why and hopefully it'll get the Tory agent talking.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, just 2 hours to the Line of Duty finale!

    Definately the TV event of the year.

    I see what you did there.

    Ideally we would be able to go and watch it in a pub somewhere. But most will be ram packed. Ideally we would be able to find a quiet out of the way one with a screen.

    Any ideas?
    It won't be Hastings.
    I still don't fully understand the £50,000.
    At the end of last series 100k was recovered from the OCG gang but Hastings kept the 50K and gave it to the widow of the officer played by Stephen Graham
    Ah! Thanks. So a good 'un. Did he keep the other half? I know he had money problems. But isn't he supposed to be whiter than white?
    I only started watching the show about a month ago. If the real police were even 10% like the tv version then we're totally screwed, as even when they're the heroes the anti-corruption ones are compromised.
    Speaking of the Forces of Order, in yesterday's Texas local elections, voters in San Antonio narrowly defeated measure that would have stripped city police of their collective bargaining rights.

    Proposition B For 73,306 (48.8%) Against 76,781 (51.2%)

    Still a few votes left to count, but not very many.
    The Netflix doc Flint Town is very good in giving an understanding of what "defunding the police" actually means.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478

    What's Line of Duty?

    Woke.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    @ydoethur

    Sorry to hear that you are leaving the profession. Best wishes for the future.

    In my profession too often the best ones want to leave, precisely because they care. The lazy, the greedy, the arrogant and the sociopaths never have the insight to have crises of faith. Indeed one of the best doctors that I know quit for a year, and did casual work on building sites, mostly as a roofer. One day, while they were all on a break, the others talked him into going back. The consensus was that the world needed doctors like him.

    Exactly how many lazy, greedy, arrogant psychopath GPs are in practice right now do you think?
    As most GPs I know are thinking of quitting, not many by my criterion.

    There are some, after all there is an arsehole element in every population. It is the nature of humanity, and mostly a problem when they have power over others. It is one reason that I dislike hierarchical organisations.
    Are you thinking of quitting?
    I have in the past, indeed I did for some months which I spent travelling in SE Asia. I then thought deeply about why I felt like leaving, what it was that I disliked about medicine, and what I could do differently.

    I am thinking of cutting back hours and going part time, but that is more of a wind down. I enjoy my job and plan to work until at least 67 years, my pension age.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    I never know if o/t means on topic or off topic?

    On here? On topic.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963
    LOL, only Man United could be in trouble for failing to control their fans - at a match being held behind closed doors.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984
    edited May 2
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    @ydoethur

    Sorry to hear that you are leaving the profession. Best wishes for the future.

    In my profession too often the best ones want to leave, precisely because they care. The lazy, the greedy, the arrogant and the sociopaths never have the insight to have crises of faith. Indeed one of the best doctors that I know quit for a year, and did casual work on building sites, mostly as a roofer. One day, while they were all on a break, the others talked him into going back. The consensus was that the world needed doctors like him.

    Exactly how many lazy, greedy, arrogant psychopath GPs are in practice right now do you think?
    As most GPs I know are thinking of quitting, not many by my criterion.

    There are some, after all there is an arsehole element in every population. It is the nature of humanity, and mostly a problem when they have power over others. It is one reason that I dislike hierarchical organisations.
    Are you thinking of quitting?
    I have in the past, indeed I did for some months which I spent travelling in SE Asia. I then thought deeply about why I felt like leaving, what it was that I disliked about medicine, and what I could do differently.

    I am thinking of cutting back hours and going part time, but that is more of a wind down. I enjoy my job and plan to work until at least 67 years, my pension age.
    Good to hear that you didn't. I suppose most people in most professions at one point or another "think of leaving". But I thought you were a GP? Which area of medicine are you in?
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Raab preparing the ground for ongoing measures after June 21st. The government needs to be straight with us, will we ever get the old normal back or not. Starmer needs to start asking these fucking questions now, not idiotic shite about wallpaper and nannies. We need clarity now, not mealy mouthed bullshit from ministers who have clearly made the judgement call despite the evidence and data showing vaccines are enough to keep the virus under control.

    What has he been saying?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56964296

    Mr Raab said the UK was "in a good position" to "get life back as close to normal as possible".

    The foreign secretary told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show: "But there will still need to be some safeguards in place."

    There's no party that wants to let go of this all powerful toolset they've been given over our lives. As soon as the virus is defeated (and it already is, tbh) they won't be able to rule over every minutiae of our lives, how far apart we need to sit from each other, making us check in to all venues so they know where everyone is at all times, whether or not people can have sex with perfect strangers. The politicians don't want to give up control of anything.
    Liberal Democrats.

    Who refuse to allow Scotland a second indyref. Some Liberals. Some Democrats.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Raab preparing the ground for ongoing measures after June 21st. The government needs to be straight with us, will we ever get the old normal back or not. Starmer needs to start asking these fucking questions now, not idiotic shite about wallpaper and nannies. We need clarity now, not mealy mouthed bullshit from ministers who have clearly made the judgement call despite the evidence and data showing vaccines are enough to keep the virus under control.

    What has he been saying?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56964296

    Mr Raab said the UK was "in a good position" to "get life back as close to normal as possible".

    The foreign secretary told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show: "But there will still need to be some safeguards in place."

    There's no party that wants to let go of this all powerful toolset they've been given over our lives. As soon as the virus is defeated (and it already is, tbh) they won't be able to rule over every minutiae of our lives, how far apart we need to sit from each other, making us check in to all venues so they know where everyone is at all times, whether or not people can have sex with perfect strangers. The politicians don't want to give up control of anything.
    Liberal Democrats.

    Who refuse to allow Scotland a second indyref. Some Liberals. Some Democrats.
    Didn’t know it was their choice. Is that the way out of the dilemma? Scotland can have one, but only when Alistair Carmichael says they can?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984
    edited May 2

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Raab preparing the ground for ongoing measures after June 21st. The government needs to be straight with us, will we ever get the old normal back or not. Starmer needs to start asking these fucking questions now, not idiotic shite about wallpaper and nannies. We need clarity now, not mealy mouthed bullshit from ministers who have clearly made the judgement call despite the evidence and data showing vaccines are enough to keep the virus under control.

    What has he been saying?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56964296

    Mr Raab said the UK was "in a good position" to "get life back as close to normal as possible".

    The foreign secretary told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show: "But there will still need to be some safeguards in place."

    There's no party that wants to let go of this all powerful toolset they've been given over our lives. As soon as the virus is defeated (and it already is, tbh) they won't be able to rule over every minutiae of our lives, how far apart we need to sit from each other, making us check in to all venues so they know where everyone is at all times, whether or not people can have sex with perfect strangers. The politicians don't want to give up control of anything.
    Liberal Democrats.

    I don't know if I will be able to bring myself to vote for them on Thursday, though. I'll be like Jim Carrey in Liar Liar trying to write that the colour of the pen is red.

    Maybe I'll tick the LD box and also write, USUALLY TORY - END COVID LAWS on my ballot.

    If it's spoilt and doesn't count, I don't care. If it is at least they know why and hopefully it'll get the Tory agent talking.
    And people ask why on earth the government would want to continue restrictions.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 19
    Yo @ydoethur and @TOPPING, why don't you like each other? You both seem reasonable to me. Or don't I want to know?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Raab preparing the ground for ongoing measures after June 21st. The government needs to be straight with us, will we ever get the old normal back or not. Starmer needs to start asking these fucking questions now, not idiotic shite about wallpaper and nannies. We need clarity now, not mealy mouthed bullshit from ministers who have clearly made the judgement call despite the evidence and data showing vaccines are enough to keep the virus under control.

    What has he been saying?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56964296

    Mr Raab said the UK was "in a good position" to "get life back as close to normal as possible".

    The foreign secretary told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show: "But there will still need to be some safeguards in place."

    There's no party that wants to let go of this all powerful toolset they've been given over our lives. As soon as the virus is defeated (and it already is, tbh) they won't be able to rule over every minutiae of our lives, how far apart we need to sit from each other, making us check in to all venues so they know where everyone is at all times, whether or not people can have sex with perfect strangers. The politicians don't want to give up control of anything.
    Liberal Democrats.

    I don't know if I will be able to bring myself to vote for them on Thursday, though. I'll be like Jim Carrey in Liar Liar trying to write that the colour of the pen is red.

    Maybe I'll tick the LD box and also write, USUALLY TORY - END COVID LAWS on my ballot.

    If it's spoilt and doesn't count, I don't care. If it is at least they know why and hopefully it'll get the Tory agent talking.
    Write to your Tory MP. It will have an effect
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,721
    Here is my tribute to the doctors and other healers among us, a clip from the classic movie "Stagecoach" (1939).

    For my money, old Doc Boone was the Real McCoy.

    STAGECOACH | Give Me Black Coffee!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y236-XTyxUo
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    @ydoethur

    Sorry to hear that you are leaving the profession. Best wishes for the future.

    In my profession too often the best ones want to leave, precisely because they care. The lazy, the greedy, the arrogant and the sociopaths never have the insight to have crises of faith. Indeed one of the best doctors that I know quit for a year, and did casual work on building sites, mostly as a roofer. One day, while they were all on a break, the others talked him into going back. The consensus was that the world needed doctors like him.

    Exactly how many lazy, greedy, arrogant psychopath GPs are in practice right now do you think?
    As most GPs I know are thinking of quitting, not many by my criterion.

    There are some, after all there is an arsehole element in every population. It is the nature of humanity, and mostly a problem when they have power over others. It is one reason that I dislike hierarchical organisations.
    Are you thinking of quitting?
    I have in the past, indeed I did for some months which I spent travelling in SE Asia. I then thought deeply about why I felt like leaving, what it was that I disliked about medicine, and what I could do differently.

    I am thinking of cutting back hours and going part time, but that is more of a wind down. I enjoy my job and plan to work until at least 67 years, my pension age.
    Good to hear that you didn't. I suppose most people in most professions at one point or another "think of leaving". But I thought you were a GP? Which area of medicine are you in?
    I am a Hospital Doctor, mostly front line now, having dropped my management roles in the NHS and University. I prefer the coalface work seeing patients and teaching students and junior doctors.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475

    What's Line of Duty?

    A cocaine shop in the US
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984
    edited May 2

    Yo @ydoethur and @TOPPING, why don't you like each other? You both seem reasonable to me. Or don't I want to know?

    It would be at this point in the film that we turned to each other, paused, and then kissed.

    I have no thoughts towards or about @ydoethy.

    The origins of his problems lie in the not too distant past and his approach to teaching during lockdown. Never have I come across someone with so much hatred for his chosen profession.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, just 2 hours to the Line of Duty finale!

    Definately the TV event of the year.

    I see what you did there.

    Ideally we would be able to go and watch it in a pub somewhere. But most will be ram packed. Ideally we would be able to find a quiet out of the way one with a screen.

    Any ideas?
    It won't be Hastings.
    I still don't fully understand the £50,000.
    At the end of last series 100k was recovered from the OCG gang but Hastings kept the 50K and gave it to the widow of the officer played by Stephen Graham
    Ah! Thanks. So a good 'un. Did he keep the other half? I know he had money problems. But isn't he supposed to be whiter than white?
    I only started watching the show about a month ago. If the real police were even 10% like the tv version then we're totally screwed, as even when they're the heroes the anti-corruption ones are compromised.
    I think part of the attraction is that we read newspaper headlines of this or that police corruption and think ha there you go whereas I'm sure it's far less than 10%. Or at least I hope it is.
    I'm actually far less concerned that corruption is the major threat rather than poor leadership and incompetence in certain aspects, but if I were more concerned about corruption LoD would not reassure me they could deal with it!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,887
    Disgusting.

    A police officer was slashed to the face with a bottle during protests at Old Trafford this afternoon.

    The policeman suffered a ‘significant slash wound’ to his face and required emergency hospital treatment, police said.

    Another officer was also attacked during the demonstration on Sunday afternoon (May 2).

    Flares were let off and bottles and barriers were thrown during the gatherings to protest against the club's owners.


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/officer-slashed-face-manchester-united-20513903

    All Manchester United fans need to condemn this.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984
    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, just 2 hours to the Line of Duty finale!

    Definately the TV event of the year.

    I see what you did there.

    Ideally we would be able to go and watch it in a pub somewhere. But most will be ram packed. Ideally we would be able to find a quiet out of the way one with a screen.

    Any ideas?
    It won't be Hastings.
    I still don't fully understand the £50,000.
    At the end of last series 100k was recovered from the OCG gang but Hastings kept the 50K and gave it to the widow of the officer played by Stephen Graham
    Ah! Thanks. So a good 'un. Did he keep the other half? I know he had money problems. But isn't he supposed to be whiter than white?
    I only started watching the show about a month ago. If the real police were even 10% like the tv version then we're totally screwed, as even when they're the heroes the anti-corruption ones are compromised.
    I think part of the attraction is that we read newspaper headlines of this or that police corruption and think ha there you go whereas I'm sure it's far less than 10%. Or at least I hope it is.
    I'm actually far less concerned that corruption is the major threat rather than poor leadership and incompetence in certain aspects, but if I were more concerned about corruption LoD would not reassure me they could deal with it!
    We might see this evening how far up the chain of command the corruption actually goes.

    My $0.02 is it will go political in that senior national politicians will be invoked.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,887
    TOPPING said:

    Yo @ydoethur and @TOPPING, why don't you like each other? You both seem reasonable to me. Or don't I want to know?

    It would be at this point in the film that we turned to each other, paused, and then kissed.

    I have no thoughts towards or about @ydoethy.

    The origins of his problems lie in the not too distant past and his approach to teaching during lockdown.

    Never have I come across someone with so much hatred for his chosen profession.
    You've never met a lawyer or a banker then?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719

    Disgusting.

    A police officer was slashed to the face with a bottle during protests at Old Trafford this afternoon.

    The policeman suffered a ‘significant slash wound’ to his face and required emergency hospital treatment, police said.

    Another officer was also attacked during the demonstration on Sunday afternoon (May 2).

    Flares were let off and bottles and barriers were thrown during the gatherings to protest against the club's owners.


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/officer-slashed-face-manchester-united-20513903

    All Manchester United fans need to condemn this.

    Are we absolutely certain that the police aren't telling porkies?

    If this is true, then obviously I hope the perpetrator is prosecuted and gets a severe sentence.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    Yo @ydoethur and Topping, why don't you like each other? You both seem reasonable to me. Or don't I want to know?

    Roughly, when I said I wouldn’t be forced to give up my summer holdiays to run catch up classes for no extra pay, he accused me of selfishness. When I criticised him for this and pointed out it rested on mistaken assumptions, he said any child who had me for a teacher was unlucky. When I criticised him for this, suggesting - perhaps acidly - that such a person would not be a suitable army officer - he made a malicious accusation of criminality against me, a post I had to ask the mods to delete.

    He now seems to be obsessed with the idea I am a bad teacher and must be driven out of the profession, despite the fact his knowledge of teaching is non-existent and his ideas of what I am or am not capable of or good at are seemingly based largely on spite. Even his ridiculous non-apology didn’t apologise for his lies - merely for ‘upsetting’ me. Perhaps it hasn’t occurred to him that if he wasn’t a liar and bully he wouldn’t upset people.

    But truthfully, that seems to be the way he treats most posters. Richard Tyndall, Pagan2 and several others have come in for his ire for no obvious reason. Look at the way he’s now talking to Foxy. I’m guessing he dislikes me particularly because on the rare occasions I don’t ignore him I eviscerate him.

    But like I say, such conversations are boring for everyone else (look at the way Horse and BigG react to each other) so generally I’m just ignoring him. This evening, he was so vile I felt I had to respond.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629

    TOPPING said:

    Yo @ydoethur and @TOPPING, why don't you like each other? You both seem reasonable to me. Or don't I want to know?

    It would be at this point in the film that we turned to each other, paused, and then kissed.

    I have no thoughts towards or about @ydoethy.

    The origins of his problems lie in the not too distant past and his approach to teaching during lockdown.

    Never have I come across someone with so much hatred for his chosen profession.
    You've never met a lawyer or a banker then?
    Liar Liar on ITV2 right now :lol:
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,721
    tlg86 said:

    Disgusting.

    A police officer was slashed to the face with a bottle during protests at Old Trafford this afternoon.

    The policeman suffered a ‘significant slash wound’ to his face and required emergency hospital treatment, police said.

    Another officer was also attacked during the demonstration on Sunday afternoon (May 2).

    Flares were let off and bottles and barriers were thrown during the gatherings to protest against the club's owners.


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/officer-slashed-face-manchester-united-20513903

    All Manchester United fans need to condemn this.

    Are we absolutely certain that the police aren't telling porkies?

    If this is true, then obviously I hope the perpetrator is prosecuted and gets a severe sentence.
    Now do you see the difference between civil disobedience and uncivil riot?

    Resort to violence is NOT civil disobedience. Rather the opposite.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    TOPPING said:

    Yo @ydoethur and @TOPPING, why don't you like each other? You both seem reasonable to me. Or don't I want to know?

    It would be at this point in the film that we turned to each other, paused, and then kissed.

    I have no thoughts towards or about @ydoethy.

    The origins of his problems lie in the not too distant past and his approach to teaching during lockdown.

    Never have I come across someone with so much hatred for his chosen profession.
    You've never met a lawyer or a banker then?
    Liar Liar on ITV2 right now :lol:
    A film that Jim Carreys.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478
    tlg86 said:

    Disgusting.

    A police officer was slashed to the face with a bottle during protests at Old Trafford this afternoon.

    The policeman suffered a ‘significant slash wound’ to his face and required emergency hospital treatment, police said.

    Another officer was also attacked during the demonstration on Sunday afternoon (May 2).

    Flares were let off and bottles and barriers were thrown during the gatherings to protest against the club's owners.


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/officer-slashed-face-manchester-united-20513903

    All Manchester United fans need to condemn this.

    Are we absolutely certain that the police aren't telling porkies?

    If this is true, then obviously I hope the perpetrator is prosecuted and gets a severe sentence.
    Sadly we can't be. They have form for making such statements.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629
    algarkirk said:

    PamelaW said:

    Hello Everyone and thank you TSE for this interesting article on Electoral Reform.

    I voted Yes in AV referendum but perhaps mistakenly in the hope it was the first step towards PR.

    As the No side won, they have unfairly used the result as validation against PR which it isn't as AV may be determined to be closer to FPTP than to PR.

    Surely I am not the only to believe the way to achieve PR is for both 1&2 to happen.
    1. Tories win GE 2024 with an overall majority. Most important meaning Labour then have lost 5 consecutive GEs.
    2. Realizing they are likely to lose subsequent GE, Tories hang on till 2029 which results in no overall majority with Labour having most seats. Labour form either Coalition or Pact with Libdems who insist on PR preferably without referendum or grudgingly to having one first. Obviously this would depend on number of Labour MP supporters of PR at that time which I suspect could be a substantial number having lost 5 GEs. I suspect Labour would choose AMS as they did for Scotland and Wales 22 years ago.

    In this scenario knowing they would have less seats in subsequent GE, Labour hang on till 2034 at which point we our first PR GE.

    Kind regards

    Pamela

    Thank you for this very interesting analysis. Two comments if I may: I think it likely that the UK population will just hate the idea of PR and given a choice will vote against it - the AV referendum is some evidence for this. There is a high chance that people will believe simply that 'change means worse' and that a system slightly hard to understand is a system that will be manipulated. FWIW I take that view.

    The sheer simplicity and ruthlessness of FPTP has much to commend it.

    Secondly all analysis about future events of this sort - subject to human whim and so on - going up to 2034 is like trying to say where the chess pieces will be in 15 moves time. Endlessly interesting, as is your suggestion, but there is lots of water to flow under that particular bridge.

    I voted against AV because it wasn't PR.

    AV is NOT proportional.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719

    tlg86 said:

    Disgusting.

    A police officer was slashed to the face with a bottle during protests at Old Trafford this afternoon.

    The policeman suffered a ‘significant slash wound’ to his face and required emergency hospital treatment, police said.

    Another officer was also attacked during the demonstration on Sunday afternoon (May 2).

    Flares were let off and bottles and barriers were thrown during the gatherings to protest against the club's owners.


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/officer-slashed-face-manchester-united-20513903

    All Manchester United fans need to condemn this.

    Are we absolutely certain that the police aren't telling porkies?

    If this is true, then obviously I hope the perpetrator is prosecuted and gets a severe sentence.
    Now do you see the difference between civil disobedience and uncivil riot?

    Resort to violence is NOT civil disobedience. Rather the opposite.
    Most of the footage I've seen looked fine. For sure, the powers that be won't be happy with football fans messing things up for broadcasters etc. but that's what we need.

    Doesn't mean the behaviour of a small minority is acceptable.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,721
    edited May 2
    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    Disgusting.

    A police officer was slashed to the face with a bottle during protests at Old Trafford this afternoon.

    The policeman suffered a ‘significant slash wound’ to his face and required emergency hospital treatment, police said.

    Another officer was also attacked during the demonstration on Sunday afternoon (May 2).

    Flares were let off and bottles and barriers were thrown during the gatherings to protest against the club's owners.


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/officer-slashed-face-manchester-united-20513903

    All Manchester United fans need to condemn this.

    Are we absolutely certain that the police aren't telling porkies?

    If this is true, then obviously I hope the perpetrator is prosecuted and gets a severe sentence.
    Sadly we can't be. They have form for making such statements.
    True. But does NOT change the definition of civil disobedience, for what it's worth.

    Check out the response of John Lewis and his fellow civil rights protesters on the Pettis Bridge in Selma, Alabama when confronted with direct, deliberate police attack.

    Very painful to watch on film. But it resulted in the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984

    TOPPING said:

    Yo @ydoethur and @TOPPING, why don't you like each other? You both seem reasonable to me. Or don't I want to know?

    It would be at this point in the film that we turned to each other, paused, and then kissed.

    I have no thoughts towards or about @ydoethy.

    The origins of his problems lie in the not too distant past and his approach to teaching during lockdown.

    Never have I come across someone with so much hatred for his chosen profession.
    You've never met a lawyer or a banker then?
    LOL. They might hate the profession but they love the money.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    algarkirk said:

    PamelaW said:

    Hello Everyone and thank you TSE for this interesting article on Electoral Reform.

    I voted Yes in AV referendum but perhaps mistakenly in the hope it was the first step towards PR.

    As the No side won, they have unfairly used the result as validation against PR which it isn't as AV may be determined to be closer to FPTP than to PR.

    Surely I am not the only to believe the way to achieve PR is for both 1&2 to happen.
    1. Tories win GE 2024 with an overall majority. Most important meaning Labour then have lost 5 consecutive GEs.
    2. Realizing they are likely to lose subsequent GE, Tories hang on till 2029 which results in no overall majority with Labour having most seats. Labour form either Coalition or Pact with Libdems who insist on PR preferably without referendum or grudgingly to having one first. Obviously this would depend on number of Labour MP supporters of PR at that time which I suspect could be a substantial number having lost 5 GEs. I suspect Labour would choose AMS as they did for Scotland and Wales 22 years ago.

    In this scenario knowing they would have less seats in subsequent GE, Labour hang on till 2034 at which point we our first PR GE.

    Kind regards

    Pamela

    Thank you for this very interesting analysis. Two comments if I may: I think it likely that the UK population will just hate the idea of PR and given a choice will vote against it - the AV referendum is some evidence for this. There is a high chance that people will believe simply that 'change means worse' and that a system slightly hard to understand is a system that will be manipulated. FWIW I take that view.

    The sheer simplicity and ruthlessness of FPTP has much to commend it.

    Secondly all analysis about future events of this sort - subject to human whim and so on - going up to 2034 is like trying to say where the chess pieces will be in 15 moves time. Endlessly interesting, as is your suggestion, but there is lots of water to flow under that particular bridge.

    I voted against AV because it wasn't PR.

    AV is NOT proportional.
    Wasn’t there an argument put forward that it would actually be less proportional? Because it would amplify the dominance of the two major parties at the expense of the smaller ones, even if they got more headline votes on the first choice.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,364


    Liberal Democrats.

    I don't know if I will be able to bring myself to vote for them on Thursday, though. I'll be like Jim Carrey in Liar Liar trying to write that the colour of the pen is red.

    Maybe I'll tick the LD box and also write, USUALLY TORY - END COVID LAWS on my ballot.

    If it's spoilt and doesn't count, I don't care. If it is at least they know why and hopefully it'll get the Tory agent talking.

    Yes.

    Embrace it - let it possess you.

    Welcome the darkness as your new friend and companion.

    Celebrate your transition to the other side - shout to the world "I voted Liberal Democrat"
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475

    algarkirk said:

    PamelaW said:

    Hello Everyone and thank you TSE for this interesting article on Electoral Reform.

    I voted Yes in AV referendum but perhaps mistakenly in the hope it was the first step towards PR.

    As the No side won, they have unfairly used the result as validation against PR which it isn't as AV may be determined to be closer to FPTP than to PR.

    Surely I am not the only to believe the way to achieve PR is for both 1&2 to happen.
    1. Tories win GE 2024 with an overall majority. Most important meaning Labour then have lost 5 consecutive GEs.
    2. Realizing they are likely to lose subsequent GE, Tories hang on till 2029 which results in no overall majority with Labour having most seats. Labour form either Coalition or Pact with Libdems who insist on PR preferably without referendum or grudgingly to having one first. Obviously this would depend on number of Labour MP supporters of PR at that time which I suspect could be a substantial number having lost 5 GEs. I suspect Labour would choose AMS as they did for Scotland and Wales 22 years ago.

    In this scenario knowing they would have less seats in subsequent GE, Labour hang on till 2034 at which point we our first PR GE.

    Kind regards

    Pamela

    Thank you for this very interesting analysis. Two comments if I may: I think it likely that the UK population will just hate the idea of PR and given a choice will vote against it - the AV referendum is some evidence for this. There is a high chance that people will believe simply that 'change means worse' and that a system slightly hard to understand is a system that will be manipulated. FWIW I take that view.

    The sheer simplicity and ruthlessness of FPTP has much to commend it.

    Secondly all analysis about future events of this sort - subject to human whim and so on - going up to 2034 is like trying to say where the chess pieces will be in 15 moves time. Endlessly interesting, as is your suggestion, but there is lots of water to flow under that particular bridge.

    I voted against AV because it wasn't PR.

    AV is NOT proportional.
    I remember in a debate on it at the time someone stating 2010 would have been less, not more, proportional under it.


  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319

    Yo @ydoethur and @TOPPING, why don't you like each other? You both seem reasonable to me. Or don't I want to know?

    It's because Topping is a total wanker.

    Hope that helps.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,721
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Disgusting.

    A police officer was slashed to the face with a bottle during protests at Old Trafford this afternoon.

    The policeman suffered a ‘significant slash wound’ to his face and required emergency hospital treatment, police said.

    Another officer was also attacked during the demonstration on Sunday afternoon (May 2).

    Flares were let off and bottles and barriers were thrown during the gatherings to protest against the club's owners.


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/officer-slashed-face-manchester-united-20513903

    All Manchester United fans need to condemn this.

    Are we absolutely certain that the police aren't telling porkies?

    If this is true, then obviously I hope the perpetrator is prosecuted and gets a severe sentence.
    Now do you see the difference between civil disobedience and uncivil riot?

    Resort to violence is NOT civil disobedience. Rather the opposite.
    Most of the footage I've seen looked fine. For sure, the powers that be won't be happy with football fans messing things up for broadcasters etc. but that's what we need.

    Doesn't mean the behaviour of a small minority is acceptable.
    Have no problem with protesting, and as far as I can tell from far away, the cause of these protesters is just.

    Just trying to clarify what is and what is NOT civil disobedience.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Raab preparing the ground for ongoing measures after June 21st. The government needs to be straight with us, will we ever get the old normal back or not. Starmer needs to start asking these fucking questions now, not idiotic shite about wallpaper and nannies. We need clarity now, not mealy mouthed bullshit from ministers who have clearly made the judgement call despite the evidence and data showing vaccines are enough to keep the virus under control.

    What has he been saying?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56964296

    Mr Raab said the UK was "in a good position" to "get life back as close to normal as possible".

    The foreign secretary told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show: "But there will still need to be some safeguards in place."

    There's no party that wants to let go of this all powerful toolset they've been given over our lives. As soon as the virus is defeated (and it already is, tbh) they won't be able to rule over every minutiae of our lives, how far apart we need to sit from each other, making us check in to all venues so they know where everyone is at all times, whether or not people can have sex with perfect strangers. The politicians don't want to give up control of anything.
    Liberal Democrats.

    I don't know if I will be able to bring myself to vote for them on Thursday, though. I'll be like Jim Carrey in Liar Liar trying to write that the colour of the pen is red.

    Maybe I'll tick the LD box and also write, USUALLY TORY - END COVID LAWS on my ballot.

    If it's spoilt and doesn't count, I don't care. If it is at least they know why and hopefully it'll get the Tory agent talking.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAE7uOO_4v4
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    algarkirk said:

    PamelaW said:

    Hello Everyone and thank you TSE for this interesting article on Electoral Reform.

    I voted Yes in AV referendum but perhaps mistakenly in the hope it was the first step towards PR.

    As the No side won, they have unfairly used the result as validation against PR which it isn't as AV may be determined to be closer to FPTP than to PR.

    Surely I am not the only to believe the way to achieve PR is for both 1&2 to happen.
    1. Tories win GE 2024 with an overall majority. Most important meaning Labour then have lost 5 consecutive GEs.
    2. Realizing they are likely to lose subsequent GE, Tories hang on till 2029 which results in no overall majority with Labour having most seats. Labour form either Coalition or Pact with Libdems who insist on PR preferably without referendum or grudgingly to having one first. Obviously this would depend on number of Labour MP supporters of PR at that time which I suspect could be a substantial number having lost 5 GEs. I suspect Labour would choose AMS as they did for Scotland and Wales 22 years ago.

    In this scenario knowing they would have less seats in subsequent GE, Labour hang on till 2034 at which point we our first PR GE.

    Kind regards

    Pamela

    Thank you for this very interesting analysis. Two comments if I may: I think it likely that the UK population will just hate the idea of PR and given a choice will vote against it - the AV referendum is some evidence for this. There is a high chance that people will believe simply that 'change means worse' and that a system slightly hard to understand is a system that will be manipulated. FWIW I take that view.

    The sheer simplicity and ruthlessness of FPTP has much to commend it.

    Secondly all analysis about future events of this sort - subject to human whim and so on - going up to 2034 is like trying to say where the chess pieces will be in 15 moves time. Endlessly interesting, as is your suggestion, but there is lots of water to flow under that particular bridge.

    I voted against AV because it wasn't PR.

    AV is NOT proportional.
    If we'd made one change it may have been easier to get support for another change at some point, as things would be more in flux. Now the government is literally arguing that the vote against AV was a vote against any other options, forever, and that other elections must therfore be changed to FPTP.

    And since most people don't care about electoral systems, they'll manage it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 20,875
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Raab preparing the ground for ongoing measures after June 21st. The government needs to be straight with us, will we ever get the old normal back or not. Starmer needs to start asking these fucking questions now, not idiotic shite about wallpaper and nannies. We need clarity now, not mealy mouthed bullshit from ministers who have clearly made the judgement call despite the evidence and data showing vaccines are enough to keep the virus under control.

    What has he been saying?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56964296

    Mr Raab said the UK was "in a good position" to "get life back as close to normal as possible".

    The foreign secretary told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show: "But there will still need to be some safeguards in place."

    There's no party that wants to let go of this all powerful toolset they've been given over our lives. As soon as the virus is defeated (and it already is, tbh) they won't be able to rule over every minutiae of our lives, how far apart we need to sit from each other, making us check in to all venues so they know where everyone is at all times, whether or not people can have sex with perfect strangers. The politicians don't want to give up control of anything.
    Hang on: he's the Foreign Secretary, so he might be talking about some continued restrictions on travel (which would be no surprise).
    No, he was wibbling about masks and social distancing.
    If any restrictions remain in place - and they shouldn't - then the financial support for businesses needs to stay in place as well. No support. No restrictions. But continuing restrictions without continuing support is unjustified by the data - which the government is meant to be following - unfair and punitive.

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Disgusting.

    A police officer was slashed to the face with a bottle during protests at Old Trafford this afternoon.

    The policeman suffered a ‘significant slash wound’ to his face and required emergency hospital treatment, police said.

    Another officer was also attacked during the demonstration on Sunday afternoon (May 2).

    Flares were let off and bottles and barriers were thrown during the gatherings to protest against the club's owners.


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/officer-slashed-face-manchester-united-20513903

    All Manchester United fans need to condemn this.

    Are we absolutely certain that the police aren't telling porkies?

    If this is true, then obviously I hope the perpetrator is prosecuted and gets a severe sentence.
    Now do you see the difference between civil disobedience and uncivil riot?

    Resort to violence is NOT civil disobedience. Rather the opposite.
    Most of the footage I've seen looked fine. For sure, the powers that be won't be happy with football fans messing things up for broadcasters etc. but that's what we need.

    Doesn't mean the behaviour of a small minority is acceptable.
    Have no problem with protesting, and as far as I can tell from far away, the cause of these protesters is just.

    Just trying to clarify what is and what is NOT civil disobedience.
    Clearly slashing someone's face is not civil disobedience!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    TOPPING said:

    Yo @ydoethur and @TOPPING, why don't you like each other? You both seem reasonable to me. Or don't I want to know?

    It would be at this point in the film that we turned to each other, paused, and then kissed.

    I have no thoughts towards or about @ydoethy.

    The origins of his problems lie in the not too distant past and his approach to teaching during lockdown.

    Never have I come across someone with so much hatred for his chosen profession.
    You've never met a lawyer or a banker then?
    Like all good people I try to avoid it whenever possible.

    It's like interacting with a politician or a skunk - best done online, if it must be done.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    ydoethur said:

    Yo @ydoethur and Topping, why don't you like each other? You both seem reasonable to me. Or don't I want to know?

    Roughly, when I said I wouldn’t be forced to give up my summer holdiays to run catch up classes for no extra pay, he accused me of selfishness. When I criticised him for this and pointed out it rested on mistaken assumptions, he said any child who had me for a teacher was unlucky. When I criticised him for this, suggesting - perhaps acidly - that such a person would not be a suitable army officer - he made a malicious accusation of criminality against me, a post I had to ask the mods to delete.

    He now seems to be obsessed with the idea I am a bad teacher and must be driven out of the profession, despite the fact his knowledge of teaching is non-existent and his ideas of what I am or am not capable of or good at are seemingly based largely on spite. Even his ridiculous non-apology didn’t apologise for his lies - merely for ‘upsetting’ me. Perhaps it hasn’t occurred to him that if he wasn’t a liar and bully he wouldn’t upset people.

    But truthfully, that seems to be the way he treats most posters. Richard Tyndall, Pagan2 and several others have come in for his ire for no obvious reason. Look at the way he’s now talking to Foxy. I’m guessing he dislikes me particularly because on the rare occasions I don’t ignore him I eviscerate him.

    But like I say, such conversations are boring for everyone else (look at the way Horse and BigG react to each other) so generally I’m just ignoring him. This evening, he was so vile I felt I had to respond.
    I think there is something deeply structurally wrong with education in the UK, as the attrition rate in your profession seems very high. I believe around half of teachers last 3 years, is that about correct? Sure, there will always be some who who have made the wrong career choice, but that seems very high.

    Medicine has a similar problem.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/most-junior-doctors-leave-after-training-jnvvnnjzp

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984
    ydoethur said:

    Yo @ydoethur and Topping, why don't you like each other? You both seem reasonable to me. Or don't I want to know?

    Roughly, when I said I wouldn’t be forced to give up my summer holdiays to run catch up classes for no extra pay, he accused me of selfishness. When I criticised him for this and pointed out it rested on mistaken assumptions, he said any child who had me for a teacher was unlucky. When I criticised him for this, suggesting - perhaps acidly - that such a person would not be a suitable army officer - he made a malicious accusation of criminality against me, a post I had to ask the mods to delete.

    He now seems to be obsessed with the idea I am a bad teacher and must be driven out of the profession, despite the fact his knowledge of teaching is non-existent and his ideas of what I am or am not capable of or good at are seemingly based largely on spite. Even his ridiculous non-apology didn’t apologise for his lies - merely for ‘upsetting’ me. Perhaps it hasn’t occurred to him that if he wasn’t a liar and bully he wouldn’t upset people.

    But truthfully, that seems to be the way he treats most posters. Richard Tyndall, Pagan2 and several others have come in for his ire for no obvious reason. Look at the way he’s now talking to Foxy. I’m guessing he dislikes me particularly because on the rare occasions I don’t ignore him I eviscerate him.

    But like I say, such conversations are boring for everyone else (look at the way Horse and BigG react to each other) so generally I’m just ignoring him. This evening, he was so vile I felt I had to respond.
    Hello sweetie.

    Needless to say I didn't read your post. But I was casually perusing PB of a Sunday evening and saw that apropos of nothing you had mentioned me and @Roger in a not wholly loving fashion.

    Which sounds to me like you know I was right about you. And I am. The sooner you fuck off from the teaching profession the better.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,435



    Liberal Democrats.

    I don't know if I will be able to bring myself to vote for them on Thursday, though. I'll be like Jim Carrey in Liar Liar trying to write that the colour of the pen is red.

    Maybe I'll tick the LD box and also write, USUALLY TORY - END COVID LAWS on my ballot.

    If it's spoilt and doesn't count, I don't care. If it is at least they know why and hopefully it'll get the Tory agent talking.

    Should work, actually - the returning officer will show it to the agents for their opinion, but the intention is clear and not contradicted by the commentary.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984
    Alistair said:

    Yo @ydoethur and @TOPPING, why don't you like each other? You both seem reasonable to me. Or don't I want to know?

    It's because Topping is a total wanker.

    Hope that helps.
    Pushing from the back I see.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Raab preparing the ground for ongoing measures after June 21st. The government needs to be straight with us, will we ever get the old normal back or not. Starmer needs to start asking these fucking questions now, not idiotic shite about wallpaper and nannies. We need clarity now, not mealy mouthed bullshit from ministers who have clearly made the judgement call despite the evidence and data showing vaccines are enough to keep the virus under control.

    What has he been saying?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56964296

    Mr Raab said the UK was "in a good position" to "get life back as close to normal as possible".

    The foreign secretary told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show: "But there will still need to be some safeguards in place."

    There's no party that wants to let go of this all powerful toolset they've been given over our lives. As soon as the virus is defeated (and it already is, tbh) they won't be able to rule over every minutiae of our lives, how far apart we need to sit from each other, making us check in to all venues so they know where everyone is at all times, whether or not people can have sex with perfect strangers. The politicians don't want to give up control of anything.
    Liberal Democrats.

    I don't know if I will be able to bring myself to vote for them on Thursday, though. I'll be like Jim Carrey in Liar Liar trying to write that the colour of the pen is red.

    Maybe I'll tick the LD box and also write, USUALLY TORY - END COVID LAWS on my ballot.

    If it's spoilt and doesn't count, I don't care. If it is at least they know why and hopefully it'll get the Tory agent talking.
    And people ask why on earth the government would want to continue restrictions.
    Why? You think that shows I'm a madman?

    I'm not a denier or an anti-vaxxer. I just see no reason to have the Covid laws extended by a further 6 months merely weeks before restrictions are due to end.

    I want political pressure on the Government to kill the long tail.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Raab preparing the ground for ongoing measures after June 21st. The government needs to be straight with us, will we ever get the old normal back or not. Starmer needs to start asking these fucking questions now, not idiotic shite about wallpaper and nannies. We need clarity now, not mealy mouthed bullshit from ministers who have clearly made the judgement call despite the evidence and data showing vaccines are enough to keep the virus under control.

    What has he been saying?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56964296

    Mr Raab said the UK was "in a good position" to "get life back as close to normal as possible".

    The foreign secretary told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show: "But there will still need to be some safeguards in place."

    There's no party that wants to let go of this all powerful toolset they've been given over our lives. As soon as the virus is defeated (and it already is, tbh) they won't be able to rule over every minutiae of our lives, how far apart we need to sit from each other, making us check in to all venues so they know where everyone is at all times, whether or not people can have sex with perfect strangers. The politicians don't want to give up control of anything.
    Liberal Democrats.

    I don't know if I will be able to bring myself to vote for them on Thursday, though. I'll be like Jim Carrey in Liar Liar trying to write that the colour of the pen is red.

    Maybe I'll tick the LD box and also write, USUALLY TORY - END COVID LAWS on my ballot.

    If it's spoilt and doesn't count, I don't care. If it is at least they know why and hopefully it'll get the Tory agent talking.
    And people ask why on earth the government would want to continue restrictions.
    Why? You think that shows I'm a madman?

    I'm not a denier or an anti-vaxxer. I just see no reason to have the Covid laws extended by a further 6 months merely weeks before restrictions are due to end.

    I want political pressure on the Government to kill the long tail.
    So do I. But look at the government's popularity. Through restriction after restriction. They realise that if people are anxious they are less likely to query their rulers.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    It’s all kicking off in here tonight I see.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972
    stodge said:


    Liberal Democrats.

    I don't know if I will be able to bring myself to vote for them on Thursday, though. I'll be like Jim Carrey in Liar Liar trying to write that the colour of the pen is red.

    Maybe I'll tick the LD box and also write, USUALLY TORY - END COVID LAWS on my ballot.

    If it's spoilt and doesn't count, I don't care. If it is at least they know why and hopefully it'll get the Tory agent talking.

    Yes.

    Embrace it - let it possess you.

    Welcome the darkness as your new friend and companion.

    Celebrate your transition to the other side - shout to the world "I voted Liberal Democrat"
    Ha! Actually, pleasing you would be one further factor in favour of me doing it.

    You've always been my favourite Lib Dem on here.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,309
    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    Yo @ydoethur and Topping, why don't you like each other? You both seem reasonable to me. Or don't I want to know?

    Roughly, when I said I wouldn’t be forced to give up my summer holdiays to run catch up classes for no extra pay, he accused me of selfishness. When I criticised him for this and pointed out it rested on mistaken assumptions, he said any child who had me for a teacher was unlucky. When I criticised him for this, suggesting - perhaps acidly - that such a person would not be a suitable army officer - he made a malicious accusation of criminality against me, a post I had to ask the mods to delete.

    He now seems to be obsessed with the idea I am a bad teacher and must be driven out of the profession, despite the fact his knowledge of teaching is non-existent and his ideas of what I am or am not capable of or good at are seemingly based largely on spite. Even his ridiculous non-apology didn’t apologise for his lies - merely for ‘upsetting’ me. Perhaps it hasn’t occurred to him that if he wasn’t a liar and bully he wouldn’t upset people.

    But truthfully, that seems to be the way he treats most posters. Richard Tyndall, Pagan2 and several others have come in for his ire for no obvious reason. Look at the way he’s now talking to Foxy. I’m guessing he dislikes me particularly because on the rare occasions I don’t ignore him I eviscerate him.

    But like I say, such conversations are boring for everyone else (look at the way Horse and BigG react to each other) so generally I’m just ignoring him. This evening, he was so vile I felt I had to respond.
    Hello sweetie.

    Needless to say I didn't read your post. But I was casually perusing PB of a Sunday evening and saw that apropos of nothing you had mentioned me and @Roger in a not wholly loving fashion.

    Which sounds to me like you know I was right about you. And I am. The sooner you fuck off from the teaching profession the better.
    Is that necessary

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    edited May 2
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Yo @ydoethur and @TOPPING, why don't you like each other? You both seem reasonable to me. Or don't I want to know?

    It would be at this point in the film that we turned to each other, paused, and then kissed.

    I have no thoughts towards or about @ydoethy.

    The origins of his problems lie in the not too distant past and his approach to teaching during lockdown.

    Never have I come across someone with so much hatred for his chosen profession.
    You've never met a lawyer or a banker then?
    LOL. They might hate the profession but they love the money.
    Ultimately, most work is unpleasant. That is why we have to be paid to do it. It is a rare pleasure to enjoy a job.

    I am fortunate that way now, but it there have been times where my work was awful.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    edited May 2
    DougSeal said:

    It’s all kicking off in here tonight I see.

    Well, yes. It had to be postponed from this afternoon after a pitch invasion.

    Oh sorry, were you referring to the thread?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Raab preparing the ground for ongoing measures after June 21st. The government needs to be straight with us, will we ever get the old normal back or not. Starmer needs to start asking these fucking questions now, not idiotic shite about wallpaper and nannies. We need clarity now, not mealy mouthed bullshit from ministers who have clearly made the judgement call despite the evidence and data showing vaccines are enough to keep the virus under control.

    What has he been saying?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56964296

    Mr Raab said the UK was "in a good position" to "get life back as close to normal as possible".

    The foreign secretary told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show: "But there will still need to be some safeguards in place."

    There's no party that wants to let go of this all powerful toolset they've been given over our lives. As soon as the virus is defeated (and it already is, tbh) they won't be able to rule over every minutiae of our lives, how far apart we need to sit from each other, making us check in to all venues so they know where everyone is at all times, whether or not people can have sex with perfect strangers. The politicians don't want to give up control of anything.
    Liberal Democrats.

    I don't know if I will be able to bring myself to vote for them on Thursday, though. I'll be like Jim Carrey in Liar Liar trying to write that the colour of the pen is red.

    Maybe I'll tick the LD box and also write, USUALLY TORY - END COVID LAWS on my ballot.

    If it's spoilt and doesn't count, I don't care. If it is at least they know why and hopefully it'll get the Tory agent talking.
    Write to your Tory MP. It will have an effect
    I do, about once a year.

    I can't write too often or he'll have me down as a serial offender, and discount me.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Yo @ydoethur and @TOPPING, why don't you like each other? You both seem reasonable to me. Or don't I want to know?

    It would be at this point in the film that we turned to each other, paused, and then kissed.

    I have no thoughts towards or about @ydoethy.

    The origins of his problems lie in the not too distant past and his approach to teaching during lockdown.

    Never have I come across someone with so much hatred for his chosen profession.
    You've never met a lawyer or a banker then?
    LOL. They might hate the profession but they love the money.
    Ultimately, most work is unpleasant. That is why we have to be paid to do it. It is a rare pleasure to enjoy a job.

    I am fortunate that way, now but it there have been times where my work was awful.
    But I'm probably not alone in thinking you were a GP. What do you do?

    None of my business of course but many of your posts are of the GP viewpoint variety.
  • LCERLCER Posts: 1
    You may be interested to know that there are many of us in the labour Party campaigning for PR. Currently there are 214 Constituency Labour Parties who have come out in favour of PR and only 5 have rejected it. We are working on the others, and they are coming out in favour all the time (when Labour are not in local election mode). There is a campaign that we are involved in, Labour for a New Democracy aimed at getting Labour Conference to pass a resolution in favour of PR in the autumn. We would urge any Labour members in favour of PR to join the Labour campaign for Electoral Reform at http://www.lcer.org.uk and the Labour for a New Democracy campaign can be found at https://www.labourforanewdemocracy.org.uk
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    Yo @ydoethur and Topping, why don't you like each other? You both seem reasonable to me. Or don't I want to know?

    Roughly, when I said I wouldn’t be forced to give up my summer holdiays to run catch up classes for no extra pay, he accused me of selfishness. When I criticised him for this and pointed out it rested on mistaken assumptions, he said any child who had me for a teacher was unlucky. When I criticised him for this, suggesting - perhaps acidly - that such a person would not be a suitable army officer - he made a malicious accusation of criminality against me, a post I had to ask the mods to delete.

    He now seems to be obsessed with the idea I am a bad teacher and must be driven out of the profession, despite the fact his knowledge of teaching is non-existent and his ideas of what I am or am not capable of or good at are seemingly based largely on spite. Even his ridiculous non-apology didn’t apologise for his lies - merely for ‘upsetting’ me. Perhaps it hasn’t occurred to him that if he wasn’t a liar and bully he wouldn’t upset people.

    But truthfully, that seems to be the way he treats most posters. Richard Tyndall, Pagan2 and several others have come in for his ire for no obvious reason. Look at the way he’s now talking to Foxy. I’m guessing he dislikes me particularly because on the rare occasions I don’t ignore him I eviscerate him.

    But like I say, such conversations are boring for everyone else (look at the way Horse and BigG react to each other) so generally I’m just ignoring him. This evening, he was so vile I felt I had to respond.
    Hello sweetie.

    Needless to say I didn't read your post. But I was casually perusing PB of a Sunday evening and saw that apropos of nothing you had mentioned me and @Roger in a not wholly loving fashion.

    Which sounds to me like you know I was right about you. And I am. The sooner you fuck off from the teaching profession the better.
    Is that necessary

    Proof if proof be needed that I am right
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,309

    Disgusting.

    A police officer was slashed to the face with a bottle during protests at Old Trafford this afternoon.

    The policeman suffered a ‘significant slash wound’ to his face and required emergency hospital treatment, police said.

    Another officer was also attacked during the demonstration on Sunday afternoon (May 2).

    Flares were let off and bottles and barriers were thrown during the gatherings to protest against the club's owners.


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/officer-slashed-face-manchester-united-20513903

    All Manchester United fans need to condemn this.

    This one does 100% and hope he gets his just deserves through the legal system
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,324
    OT - with Watkins and Dunk (16 Points) on my FPL bench, is anyone else hoping the Man U v Liv match is put into a later game week?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Raab preparing the ground for ongoing measures after June 21st. The government needs to be straight with us, will we ever get the old normal back or not. Starmer needs to start asking these fucking questions now, not idiotic shite about wallpaper and nannies. We need clarity now, not mealy mouthed bullshit from ministers who have clearly made the judgement call despite the evidence and data showing vaccines are enough to keep the virus under control.

    What has he been saying?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56964296

    Mr Raab said the UK was "in a good position" to "get life back as close to normal as possible".

    The foreign secretary told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show: "But there will still need to be some safeguards in place."

    There's no party that wants to let go of this all powerful toolset they've been given over our lives. As soon as the virus is defeated (and it already is, tbh) they won't be able to rule over every minutiae of our lives, how far apart we need to sit from each other, making us check in to all venues so they know where everyone is at all times, whether or not people can have sex with perfect strangers. The politicians don't want to give up control of anything.
    Liberal Democrats.

    I don't know if I will be able to bring myself to vote for them on Thursday, though. I'll be like Jim Carrey in Liar Liar trying to write that the colour of the pen is red.

    Maybe I'll tick the LD box and also write, USUALLY TORY - END COVID LAWS on my ballot.

    If it's spoilt and doesn't count, I don't care. If it is at least they know why and hopefully it'll get the Tory agent talking.
    And people ask why on earth the government would want to continue restrictions.
    Why? You think that shows I'm a madman?

    I'm not a denier or an anti-vaxxer. I just see no reason to have the Covid laws extended by a further 6 months merely weeks before restrictions are due to end.

    I want political pressure on the Government to kill the long tail.
    So do I. But look at the government's popularity. Through restriction after restriction. They realise that if people are anxious they are less likely to query their rulers.
    Yes, and I'm trying to exert political pressure the other way.

    We'll see what happens on Thursday. It's very hard for a core Conservative like me to vote anything but. It's much easier for my wife, who's very soft centre-right but has already decided she'll vote that way.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 31,984
    DougSeal said:

    It’s all kicking off in here tonight I see.

    Sweetness and light. Sweetness and light.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972
    edited May 2
    LCER said:

    You may be interested to know that there are many of us in the labour Party campaigning for PR. Currently there are 214 Constituency Labour Parties who have come out in favour of PR and only 5 have rejected it. We are working on the others, and they are coming out in favour all the time (when Labour are not in local election mode). There is a campaign that we are involved in, Labour for a New Democracy aimed at getting Labour Conference to pass a resolution in favour of PR in the autumn. We would urge any Labour members in favour of PR to join the Labour campaign for Electoral Reform at http://www.lcer.org.uk and the Labour for a New Democracy campaign can be found at https://www.labourforanewdemocracy.org.uk

    Welcome!
This discussion has been closed.