I'm not a Herald subscriber so can't give any more detail than the Constituency vote but I see the SNP are actually up in the latest BMG poll to 49% from BMG's mid March poll.
The Conservative, Labour and LD votes combined though are also on 49%, so I think the Unionist parties will win significantly more than the 1 Conservative and 4 LD constituency seats they are projected via Unionist tactical voting to beat the SNP
Genuine question, to my fellow Essex man, and not trying to make a political point. What evidence is there for significant tactical pro-Unionist voting?
Quite a lot. If you look at how people voted on the constituency and on the list in edinburgh in 2016 you see Lab and lib Dems come first in Ed southern and Ed west to win the constituencies but the Conservatives come first on the list vote in both constituencies.
It is why Douglas Ross is emphasising the list vote so much.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
The authentic and repellent voice of Toryism today.
Go away and look up what follows hubris.
Two months ago I would have agreed with you. I suspect the conservatives election campaign has chastened them somewhat. If you look at the latest table of fave raves on conhome, campaign head Milling is as popular as a f8rt in a space suit.
I'm not a Herald subscriber so can't give any more detail than the Constituency vote but I see the SNP are actually up in the latest BMG poll to 49% from BMG's mid March poll.
The Conservative, Labour and LD votes combined though are also on 49%, so I think the Unionist parties will win significantly more than the 1 Conservative and 4 LD constituency seats they are projected via Unionist tactical voting to beat the SNP
Genuine question, to my fellow Essex man, and not trying to make a political point. What evidence is there for significant tactical pro-Unionist voting?
Quite a lot. If you look at how people voted on the constituency and on the list in edinburgh in 2016 you see Lab and lib Dems come first in Ed southern and Ed west to win the constituencies but the Conservatives come first on the list vote in both constituencies.
It is why Douglas Ross is emphasising the list vote so much.
Also, however, we have more Britnat parties to choose from should anyone be inclined to try their hand at Unionist tactical voting. It's not obvious to me there is much to choose between ScoTories, Ms Ballantyne's lot, or Mr Galloway's lot, either.
Cost of redecoration of flat ~ 100k, paid for -- after a bit of fuss -- apparently by the PM. Cost to taxpayers -- zero. Total amount of postings on blogs and words in newspapers ~ billions.
Cost of mahossive Greensill Capital / Gupta corruption to taxpayers ~ up to 5 billion (source: Guardian). Total amount of postings on blogs and words in newspapers ~ at most a few hundred.
It is Filthy, Greedy Cameron who should be under the spotlight.
It is proof that most people are not actually interested in tackling serious fraud or corruption. They are only interested in using corruption as a party political stick.
Now that Cameron is no longer a front line politician -- and despite his behaviour being massively more expensive for the taxpayer -- no-one is very interested.
......and what about Dugdale at Crichel Down? Not a word! They've got it in for Boris
"For a government struggling with the perception that lucrative opportunities are available if you know the right people — rules and merit be damned — not requiring an interrogation of Vennells and her senior colleagues under oath is, to put it lightly, not a great look.
Sub-postmasters and their families are not calling for an indiscriminate witch-hunt — that, after all, would make them no different from the faceless bureaucracy at the Post Office that pursued them so relentlessly without care for evidence or consequence. But “lessons learnt” without any repercussions for those who necessitated those lessons in the first place is not justice; it is absolution. We need a full, statutory inquiry, empowered by the state to hear all pertinent evidence and testimony."
We have a full inquiry into Grenfell, and I don't think there's much difference as far as 'lives ruined' are concerned. Even if a number of middle rank Post Office staff are convicted of perjury, that still doesn't absolve the people at the top who must have had questions.
Grenfell was horrific -and being less than two miles away from where I live, I’ve some sense of its continued impact on people. However, far more lives have been ruined by the PO prosecutions.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
The authentic and repellent voice of Toryism today.
Go away and look up what follows hubris.
Two months ago I would have agreed with you. I suspect the conservatives election campaign has chastened them somewhat. If you look at the latest table of fave raves on conhome, campaign head Milling is as popular as a f8rt in a space suit.
Some fascinating detail in this, including the bafflingly surreal one that, while Scottish voters think the SNP Scottish Government has done badly on education, they think it has done well on immigration and defence.
Could someone please have a stern word with Scottish voters?
Maybe people give the SNP a plus on defence because they like the policies even if they don't have the powers? Which is worrying because it suggests what the SNP is good at requires independence.
That could well be the case
Have we all done our predictions on here for e Scottish elections yet? I still think SNP will fall short of a majority, but will be very tight.
I think SLAB will be in second place in the popular vote, and possibly seats. Voting SLAB is the way to kick both Sturgeon and Johnson in the arse.
ScotCons are on for losing seats. Last night the Lord of Epping Forest insisted they help no seats in NE fishing towns - because their 4 MSPs here are only list members. With polls showing them losing somewhere round that number of seats, I think HYUFD's prediction is likely accurate - Tories are going to be punished up here for lying to the community.
They are only list seats, not one major fishing community in Scotland has a Conservative constituency MSP. However I think the Conservatives could gain Moray from the SNP, it was 49% Leave, has Ross as its Westminster MP and no major fishing port unlike its neighbour Banffshire and Buchan Coast
If they are "only list seats" then you will be happy to lose them. You keep saying these list MSPs don't represent the fishing area. When I put my details into They Work For You it states - amazingly enough - that I have a stack of MSPs representing me including these 4 Tories:
Your MP (Member of Parliament) is David Duguid, Banff and Buchan Your constituency MSP (Member of the Scottish Parliament) is Gillian Martin, Aberdeenshire East Your North East Scotland MSPs are: Peter Chapman Liam Kerr Lewis Macdonald Jenny Marra Mike Rumbles Bill Bowman Tom Mason
You really are a clueless fool.
Not one represents a Holyrood fishing constituency of any size, every resident of Scotland has a Tory MSP on the list, Banffshire and Buchan coast which is where the largest fishing ports in Scotland are has an SNP constituency MSP, the second largest fishing ports around Orkney and Shetland have LD constituency MSPs.
So yet again a completely irrelevant point from you
So do these MSPs represent me or not? The Scottish Parliament says Yes.. You say No.
Who is right? You? Or the Scottish parliament?
Panelbase today has the Tories holding all 4 of their North East list seats anyway.
What do you care? These Tory MSPs don't exist according to you.
The real point HY doesn't understand is that fishing - and to a much lesser extent farming - has a symbolic importance beyond just the number of people working in it, which objectively is tiny. An odd point to miss, for anyone who has been paying attention.
The fisherfolk down these parts would love to meet the likes of our Philip for a little chat, so that he could explain to them in person his proposition that 'shit happens'.
TBF, the fishing industry is also important because Food Security.
I was wondering how HYUFD would react to the recent polling - after his assurances that the ScoTories would be sswept to triumph by the voting of the fishing industry (which he based on a single survey by a non BPC actor, an academic, of self-selected skippers of larger fishing boats).
I have not said that at all all year, the Tories would only have gained fishing votes with No Deal Brexit and all UK waters only for UK fishermen.
However No Deal would have cost them more suburban votes in Scotland and seats like Eastwood and Edinburgh Central than they would have gained from fishermen, the only seat they may have gained from the SNP from the fishing vote was Banffshire and Buchan Coast
Additionally, there is no problem with Ms Symmonds getting a job if she wants to decorate the flat at one go, rather than do a few rooms at a time.
She has one as Head of Something Or Other at an animal charity. Presumably her nightly exposure to Johnson on the vinegars was good preparation for working with gorillas.
No she doesn't - I do know about the animal welfare sector. She's a patron of the Conservative Animal Welfare Foundation, which is literally just lending her name to a voluntary campaign group (the counterpart to the Labour Animal Welfare Society), at a salary of £0.
As I said yesterday, the attempt to have a go at Johnson's partner as a proxy for attacking him is dodgy and has an element of misogyny. She's keen on animals, but to be fair he has quite a good record on the issue too (as I expect we shall see on Tuesday week in the Queen's Speech). Others may disagree, but if so they should criticise Johnson. not his partner who happens to be of similar mind on this.
For a while, wasn't Cherie Blair the most unpopular person in the country, according to polls? In the aftermath of a different Flat-gate.
It is a curious form of British misogyny, I tend to agree.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
Worse than that, isn't it? For the next few years, all that matters really is the views of Conservative MPs.
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
I'm not a Herald subscriber so can't give any more detail than the Constituency vote but I see the SNP are actually up in the latest BMG poll to 49% from BMG's mid March poll.
The Conservative, Labour and LD votes combined though are also on 49%, so I think the Unionist parties will win significantly more than the 1 Conservative and 4 LD constituency seats they are projected via Unionist tactical voting to beat the SNP
Genuine question, to my fellow Essex man, and not trying to make a political point. What evidence is there for significant tactical pro-Unionist voting?
Scottish local by elections
A couple of examples would be helpful. And one has to bear in mind that local factors and personalities, particularly in smaller communities make a difference.
Some fascinating detail in this, including the bafflingly surreal one that, while Scottish voters think the SNP Scottish Government has done badly on education, they think it has done well on immigration and defence.
Could someone please have a stern word with Scottish voters?
Maybe people give the SNP a plus on defence because they like the policies even if they don't have the powers? Which is worrying because it suggests what the SNP is good at requires independence.
That could well be the case
Have we all done our predictions on here for e Scottish elections yet? I still think SNP will fall short of a majority, but will be very tight.
I think SLAB will be in second place in the popular vote, and possibly seats. Voting SLAB is the way to kick both Sturgeon and Johnson in the arse.
ScotCons are on for losing seats. Last night the Lord of Epping Forest insisted they help no seats in NE fishing towns - because their 4 MSPs here are only list members. With polls showing them losing somewhere round that number of seats, I think HYUFD's prediction is likely accurate - Tories are going to be punished up here for lying to the community.
They are only list seats, not one major fishing community in Scotland has a Conservative constituency MSP. However I think the Conservatives could gain Moray from the SNP, it was 49% Leave, has Ross as its Westminster MP and no major fishing port unlike its neighbour Banffshire and Buchan Coast
If they are "only list seats" then you will be happy to lose them. You keep saying these list MSPs don't represent the fishing area. When I put my details into They Work For You it states - amazingly enough - that I have a stack of MSPs representing me including these 4 Tories:
Your MP (Member of Parliament) is David Duguid, Banff and Buchan Your constituency MSP (Member of the Scottish Parliament) is Gillian Martin, Aberdeenshire East Your North East Scotland MSPs are: Peter Chapman Liam Kerr Lewis Macdonald Jenny Marra Mike Rumbles Bill Bowman Tom Mason
You really are a clueless fool.
Not one represents a Holyrood fishing constituency of any size, every resident of Scotland has a Tory MSP on the list, Banffshire and Buchan coast which is where the largest fishing ports in Scotland are has an SNP constituency MSP, the second largest fishing ports around Orkney and Shetland have LD constituency MSPs.
So yet again a completely irrelevant point from you
So do these MSPs represent me or not? The Scottish Parliament says Yes.. You say No.
Who is right? You? Or the Scottish parliament?
Panelbase today has the Tories holding all 4 of their North East list seats anyway.
What do you care? These Tory MSPs don't exist according to you.
The real point HY doesn't understand is that fishing - and to a much lesser extent farming - has a symbolic importance beyond just the number of people working in it, which objectively is tiny. An odd point to miss, for anyone who has been paying attention.
The fisherfolk down these parts would love to meet the likes of our Philip for a little chat, so that he could explain to them in person his proposition that 'shit happens'.
TBF, the fishing industry is also important because Food Security.
I was wondering how HYUFD would react to the recent polling - after his assurances that the ScoTories would be sswept to triumph by the voting of the fishing industry (which he based on a single survey by a non BPC actor, an academic, of self-selected skippers of larger fishing boats).
I have not said that at all all year, the Tories would only have gained fishing votes with No Deal Brexit and all UK waters only for UK fishermen.
However No Deal would have cost them more suburban votes in Scotland and seats like Eastwood and Edinburgh Central than they would have gained from fishermen, the only seat they may have gained from the SNP from the fishing vote was Banffshire and Buchan Coast
But our argument about your misinterpretation opf that survey was more than a year ago.
I'm not a Herald subscriber so can't give any more detail than the Constituency vote but I see the SNP are actually up in the latest BMG poll to 49% from BMG's mid March poll.
The Conservative, Labour and LD votes combined though are also on 49%, so I think the Unionist parties will win significantly more than the 1 Conservative and 4 LD constituency seats they are projected via Unionist tactical voting to beat the SNP
Genuine question, to my fellow Essex man, and not trying to make a political point. What evidence is there for significant tactical pro-Unionist voting?
Scottish local by elections
A couple of examples would be helpful. And one has to bear in mind that local factors and personalities, particularly in smaller communities make a difference.
Mr Murray in Edinburgh South, I would think - he is always urging Tories to vote for him.
BTW I wonder what effect having the students disrupted by Covid will have on the vote - could affect LDs in Edinburgh and Fife/St Andrews maybe?
I'm not a Herald subscriber so can't give any more detail than the Constituency vote but I see the SNP are actually up in the latest BMG poll to 49% from BMG's mid March poll.
The Conservative, Labour and LD votes combined though are also on 49%, so I think the Unionist parties will win significantly more than the 1 Conservative and 4 LD constituency seats they are projected via Unionist tactical voting to beat the SNP
Genuine question, to my fellow Essex man, and not trying to make a political point. What evidence is there for significant tactical pro-Unionist voting?
Scottish local by elections
A couple of examples would be helpful. And one has to bear in mind that local factors and personalities, particularly in smaller communities make a difference.
Dealt with in a crossover. Thanks folks. The Edinburgh examples are particularly interesting.
I'm not a Herald subscriber so can't give any more detail than the Constituency vote but I see the SNP are actually up in the latest BMG poll to 49% from BMG's mid March poll.
The Conservative, Labour and LD votes combined though are also on 49%, so I think the Unionist parties will win significantly more than the 1 Conservative and 4 LD constituency seats they are projected via Unionist tactical voting to beat the SNP
Genuine question, to my fellow Essex man, and not trying to make a political point. What evidence is there for significant tactical pro-Unionist voting?
Scottish local by elections
A couple of examples would be helpful. And one has to bear in mind that local factors and personalities, particularly in smaller communities make a difference.
I'm not a Herald subscriber so can't give any more detail than the Constituency vote but I see the SNP are actually up in the latest BMG poll to 49% from BMG's mid March poll.
The Conservative, Labour and LD votes combined though are also on 49%, so I think the Unionist parties will win significantly more than the 1 Conservative and 4 LD constituency seats they are projected via Unionist tactical voting to beat the SNP
Genuine question, to my fellow Essex man, and not trying to make a political point. What evidence is there for significant tactical pro-Unionist voting?
Scottish local by elections
A couple of examples would be helpful. And one has to bear in mind that local factors and personalities, particularly in smaller communities make a difference.
Mr Murray in Edinburgh South, I would think - he is always urging Tories to vote for him.
BTW I wonder what effect having the students disrupted by Covid will have on the vote - could affect LDs in Edinburgh and Fife/St Andrews maybe?
Yes, Labour will hold Edinburgh Southern and maybe Dumbarton and East Lothian too on Thursday due to Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP
I'm not a Herald subscriber so can't give any more detail than the Constituency vote but I see the SNP are actually up in the latest BMG poll to 49% from BMG's mid March poll.
The Conservative, Labour and LD votes combined though are also on 49%, so I think the Unionist parties will win significantly more than the 1 Conservative and 4 LD constituency seats they are projected via Unionist tactical voting to beat the SNP
Genuine question, to my fellow Essex man, and not trying to make a political point. What evidence is there for significant tactical pro-Unionist voting?
Scottish local by elections
A couple of examples would be helpful. And one has to bear in mind that local factors and personalities, particularly in smaller communities make a difference.
Mr Murray in Edinburgh South, I would think - he is always urging Tories to vote for him.
BTW I wonder what effect having the students disrupted by Covid will have on the vote - could affect LDs in Edinburgh and Fife/St Andrews maybe?
Yes, Labour will hold Edinburgh Southern and maybe Dumbarton and East Lothian too on Thursday due to Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP
HYUFD - what’s your overall prediction for Scotland?
It’s sad that so many of the Commentariat seem to be gleefully talking up the dissolution of the country, purely as a means to get back at Johnson and Brexit.
It's really sad that the breakup of the United Kingdom is an inevitable consequence of Brexit
Little Englanders for the win...
Limiting what we can see of embedded Tweets has really improved your posting output. I agree with barely anything you write, but it's great to see you making an active contribution to the debate as yourself.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
Worse than that, isn't it? For the next few years, all that matters really is the views of Conservative MPs.
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
(To be clear, This Is A Bad Thing.)
Last night's thread was compelling and while I ignore @Scott_xP daily anti Boris rantings, @TSE was very interesting and explained many of the allegations against Boris and Carrie and, to be honest if proven, he will have no choice but to resign
Indeed, as the thread continued I became more certain that he is will be out of office sometime this year
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
Worse than that, isn't it? For the next few years, all that matters really is the views of Conservative MPs.
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
(To be clear, This Is A Bad Thing.)
Last night's thread was compelling and while I ignore @Scott_xP daily anti Boris rantings, @TSE was very interesting and explained many of the allegations against Boris and Carrie and, to be honest if proven, he will have no choice but to resign
Indeed, as the thread continued I became more certain that he is will be out of office sometime this year
All depends how much he wants to keep the job (despite the lack of cash)
I don’t know why he doesn’t do a deal now for his memoirs. Is it illegal? It would certainly look a lot better than asking for donors to pay his childcare
As we discussed last night he will get millions. Problem solved. Unless it’s not allowed
"For a government struggling with the perception that lucrative opportunities are available if you know the right people — rules and merit be damned — not requiring an interrogation of Vennells and her senior colleagues under oath is, to put it lightly, not a great look.
Sub-postmasters and their families are not calling for an indiscriminate witch-hunt — that, after all, would make them no different from the faceless bureaucracy at the Post Office that pursued them so relentlessly without care for evidence or consequence. But “lessons learnt” without any repercussions for those who necessitated those lessons in the first place is not justice; it is absolution. We need a full, statutory inquiry, empowered by the state to hear all pertinent evidence and testimony."
We have a full inquiry into Grenfell, and I don't think there's much difference as far as 'lives ruined' are concerned. Even if a number of middle rank Post Office staff are convicted of perjury, that still doesn't absolve the people at the top who must have had questions.
But, did they perjure themselves? They were assured that the software was working. They believed the assurances. They lacked the competence to detect software errors.
They were gullible. They were stupid. But, these are not crimes.
Vennells was clearly over-promoted -- though she was lauded at the time as a successful working-class woman leading an important company. She was gullible. She was stupid. These are not crimes.
Any public inquiry will conclude that no crimes were committed by the Post Office and its management. Gross incompetence is not a crime.
I am puzzled as to why the buckets of shit are not being poured over the software compare (Fujitsu) that supplied the crappy software that made the errors.
They are more to blame that the wretched Vennells. They supplied the product that caused the problems, and they repeatedly assured Vennells and the Post Office that there was no problem.
I'm not a Herald subscriber so can't give any more detail than the Constituency vote but I see the SNP are actually up in the latest BMG poll to 49% from BMG's mid March poll.
The Conservative, Labour and LD votes combined though are also on 49%, so I think the Unionist parties will win significantly more than the 1 Conservative and 4 LD constituency seats they are projected via Unionist tactical voting to beat the SNP
Genuine question, to my fellow Essex man, and not trying to make a political point. What evidence is there for significant tactical pro-Unionist voting?
Scottish local by elections
A couple of examples would be helpful. And one has to bear in mind that local factors and personalities, particularly in smaller communities make a difference.
Mr Murray in Edinburgh South, I would think - he is always urging Tories to vote for him.
BTW I wonder what effect having the students disrupted by Covid will have on the vote - could affect LDs in Edinburgh and Fife/St Andrews maybe?
Yes, Labour will hold Edinburgh Southern and maybe Dumbarton and East Lothian too on Thursday due to Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP
HYUFD - what’s your overall prediction for Scotland?
The SNP largest party but no majority on their own but only with the Greens so no change from 2016.
The SNP will also lose seats on the list to the Greens and at the constituency level I think the SNP will lose Moray to the Tories and Caithness, Sutherland and Ross to the LDs and Edinburgh Central will go Labour, not SNP as well
Simon Jenkins: By the end of next week, the bizarre “union of four nations”, much cited during Covid, could be seriously at risk. As throughout history, England is hopeless at managing such risks. Boris Johnson seized power by championing British nationalism, yet he has only contempt for the nationalism of others. Last November Johnson called granting more power to Scotland “a disaster”, declaring devolution to be “Tony Blair’s biggest mistake”. That may soon be another quote he will deny ever having said.
It’s sad that so many of the Commentariat seem to be gleefully talking up the dissolution of the country, purely as a means to get back at Johnson and Brexit.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
Worse than that, isn't it? For the next few years, all that matters really is the views of Conservative MPs.
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
(To be clear, This Is A Bad Thing.)
Last night's thread was compelling and while I ignore @Scott_xP daily anti Boris rantings, @TSE was very interesting and explained many of the allegations against Boris and Carrie and, to be honest if proven, he will have no choice but to resign
Indeed, as the thread continued I became more certain that he is will be out of office sometime this year
All depends how much he wants to keep the job (despite the lack of cash)
I don’t know why he doesn’t do a deal now for his memoirs. Is it illegal? It would certainly look a lot better than asking for donors to pay his childcare
As we discussed last night he will get millions. Problem solved. Unless it’s not allowed
He will make a fortune out of office and if he goes once covid is contained, hopefully by mid summer, he will have achieved Brexit and a world class vaccine programme enabling our economy to open sooner than many others
I'm not a Herald subscriber so can't give any more detail than the Constituency vote but I see the SNP are actually up in the latest BMG poll to 49% from BMG's mid March poll.
The Conservative, Labour and LD votes combined though are also on 49%, so I think the Unionist parties will win significantly more than the 1 Conservative and 4 LD constituency seats they are projected via Unionist tactical voting to beat the SNP
Genuine question, to my fellow Essex man, and not trying to make a political point. What evidence is there for significant tactical pro-Unionist voting?
Scottish local by elections
A couple of examples would be helpful. And one has to bear in mind that local factors and personalities, particularly in smaller communities make a difference.
Mr Murray in Edinburgh South, I would think - he is always urging Tories to vote for him.
BTW I wonder what effect having the students disrupted by Covid will have on the vote - could affect LDs in Edinburgh and Fife/St Andrews maybe?
Yes, Labour will hold Edinburgh Southern and maybe Dumbarton and East Lothian too on Thursday due to Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP
HYUFD - what’s your overall prediction for Scotland?
The SNP largest party but no majority on their own but only with the Greens so no change from 2016.
The SNP will also lose seats on the list to the Greens and at the constituency level I think the SNP will lose Moray to the Tories and Caithness, Sutherland and Ross to the LDs and Edinburgh Central will go Labour, not SNP as well
Thanks v much. You’re an honest judge, and well-informed, you don’t let your Toryness blind you. Useful
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
Worse than that, isn't it? For the next few years, all that matters really is the views of Conservative MPs.
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
(To be clear, This Is A Bad Thing.)
Last night's thread was compelling and while I ignore @Scott_xP daily anti Boris rantings, @TSE was very interesting and explained many of the allegations against Boris and Carrie and, to be honest if proven, he will have no choice but to resign
Indeed, as the thread continued I became more certain that he is will be out of office sometime this year
All depends how much he wants to keep the job (despite the lack of cash)
I don’t know why he doesn’t do a deal now for his memoirs. Is it illegal? It would certainly look a lot better than asking for donors to pay his childcare
As we discussed last night he will get millions. Problem solved. Unless it’s not allowed
Hasn’t he already trousered a significant advance on the Shakespeare book?
I think there is a reasonable likelihood that Boris will step down after the country opens up again. Claim to be the PM who led the vaccine programme and start on the newly re-opened speech circuit making millions.
He has just procured and had painted (at vast expense and with taxpayers' money) a VVIP A321 - not to be confused with VIP A330 and its million quid paint job. There is zero chance he (and FLOTUK) are going to relinquish the post-covid junkets in that to the Goldman-Sachs Elf and his Mrs any time soon.
I agree. Giving up PM to ponce around on the speech circuit and write memoirs? No. Johnson won't go unless he has to. Health. Polling collapse. Criminal charges. GE defeat.
"For a government struggling with the perception that lucrative opportunities are available if you know the right people — rules and merit be damned — not requiring an interrogation of Vennells and her senior colleagues under oath is, to put it lightly, not a great look.
Sub-postmasters and their families are not calling for an indiscriminate witch-hunt — that, after all, would make them no different from the faceless bureaucracy at the Post Office that pursued them so relentlessly without care for evidence or consequence. But “lessons learnt” without any repercussions for those who necessitated those lessons in the first place is not justice; it is absolution. We need a full, statutory inquiry, empowered by the state to hear all pertinent evidence and testimony."
We have a full inquiry into Grenfell, and I don't think there's much difference as far as 'lives ruined' are concerned. Even if a number of middle rank Post Office staff are convicted of perjury, that still doesn't absolve the people at the top who must have had questions.
But, did they perjure themselves? They were assured that the software was working. They believed the assurances. They lacked the competence to detect software errors.
They were gullible. They were stupid. But, these are not crimes.
Vennells was clearly over-promoted -- though she was lauded at the time as a successful working-class woman leading an important company. She was gullible. She was stupid. These are not crimes.
Any public inquiry will conclude that no crimes were committed by the Post Office and its management. Gross incompetence is not a crime.
I am puzzled as to why the buckets of shit are not being poured over the software compare (Fujitsu) that supplied the crappy software that made the errors.
They are more to blame that the wretched Vennells. They supplied the product that caused the problems, and they repeatedly assured Vennells and the Post Office that there was no problem.
Read the emails Vennells sent- she was not asking for issues with the software to be highlighted but to hidden from her.
As for Fujitsu - anyone decent in IT wouldn't go near them - why do you think they have so much Government work, the private sector offloaded / offshored it 15 years ago to Wipro and TCS
Simon Jenkins: By the end of next week, the bizarre “union of four nations”, much cited during Covid, could be seriously at risk. As throughout history, England is hopeless at managing such risks. Boris Johnson seized power by championing British nationalism, yet he has only contempt for the nationalism of others. Last November Johnson called granting more power to Scotland “a disaster”, declaring devolution to be “Tony Blair’s biggest mistake”. That may soon be another quote he will deny ever having said.
It’s sad that so many of the Commentariat seem to be gleefully talking up the dissolution of the country, purely as a means to get back at Johnson and Brexit.
I wonder whether Johnson might go for repeal of the Scottish Parliament Act.
I’m not quite sure he goes that far, but a wide-ranging constitutional convention is long overdue. The current asymmetric devolution arrangement, with no English Parliament, isn’t working.
‘We will address the unhappiness of Scottish voters by giving English voters devolution that they show no sign of wanting. Trebles all round!’
I think there is a reasonable likelihood that Boris will step down after the country opens up again. Claim to be the PM who led the vaccine programme and start on the newly re-opened speech circuit making millions.
He has just procured and had painted (at vast expense and with taxpayers' money) a VVIP A321 - not to be confused with VIP A330 and its million quid paint job. There is zero chance he (and FLOTUK) are going to relinquish the post-covid junkets in that to the Goldman-Sachs Elf and his Mrs any time soon.
I agree. Giving up PM to ponce around on the speech circuit and write memoirs? No. Johnson won't go unless he has to. Health. Polling collapse. Criminal charges. GE defeat.
Yes. Possibly true
And while the present rumours look bad for him, remember what Sturgeon has survived. British politics is quite forgiving
Cost of redecoration of flat ~ 100k, paid for -- after a bit of fuss -- apparently by the PM. Cost to taxpayers -- zero. Total amount of postings on blogs and words in newspapers ~ billions.
Cost of mahossive Greensill Capital / Gupta corruption to taxpayers ~ up to 5 billion (source: Guardian). Total amount of postings on blogs and words in newspapers ~ at most a few hundred.
It is Filthy, Greedy Cameron who should be under the spotlight.
It is proof that most people are not actually interested in tackling serious fraud or corruption. They are only interested in using corruption as a party political stick.
Now that Cameron is no longer a front line politician -- and despite his behaviour being massively more expensive for the taxpayer -- no-one is very interested.
Your defence of Johnson and condemnation of Cameron is fascinating. I am old enough to remember political scandals going back to Polson, T. Dan Smith and of course closer to home Graham Jenkins. Scoundrels with both red and blue stripes. I call them all out.
The Cameron/ Greensill affair stinks to high heaven, and the pong seems to be circling Downing Street. From what we have heard of Greensill so far, Johnson seems to have avoided it which is great, and Cameron is a busted flush anyway, so nothing to see until the inquiry and/or court cases tell us more. Any allegations of Greensill impropriety amongst Ministers counld and should be dealt with today by Johnson.
So what of the wallpaper? I, like you, up until last night thought there was nothing to see. Fifty grand on curtains? My wife could manage that, if only I had it, and Carrie's chap just saved 67m people from imminent death, so what's the fuss? However TSE's revelations regarding donors paying contractors directly adds a new and very alarming dimension to the case. Johnson can survive the tasteless wallpaper, but should he survive the deceipt and rulebreaking?
Excepting that cell in The Hague with Blair's name on it, we don't want to see serving and former Prime Ministers in handcuffs (this is not France). But a life of charitable recantation, a la John Profumo, might be called for, and for both Cameron and Johnson.
I don't think it is just Cameron and Johnson. Theresa May is getting £20,000 speaking gigs and I am afraid I refuse to believe that they have nothing to do with decisions she took whilst in power. Of course, with May it hasn't been done to excess, whereas Johnson and Cameron, in their different ways, have shat the bed. I am not sure what Brown was like, but I suspect Blair was at it, and possibly that nice Mr. Major too. With Thatcher, I believe Dennis was already wealthy.
Simon Jenkins: By the end of next week, the bizarre “union of four nations”, much cited during Covid, could be seriously at risk. As throughout history, England is hopeless at managing such risks. Boris Johnson seized power by championing British nationalism, yet he has only contempt for the nationalism of others. Last November Johnson called granting more power to Scotland “a disaster”, declaring devolution to be “Tony Blair’s biggest mistake”. That may soon be another quote he will deny ever having said.
It’s sad that so many of the Commentariat seem to be gleefully talking up the dissolution of the country, purely as a means to get back at Johnson and Brexit.
I wonder whether Johnson might go for repeal of the Scottish Parliament Act.
I’m not quite sure he goes that far, but a wide-ranging constitutional convention is long overdue. The current asymmetric devolution arrangement, with no English Parliament, isn’t working.
‘We will address the unhappiness of Scottish voters by giving English voters devolution that they show no sign of wanting. Trebles all round!’
41% of English voters and 52% of English Leave voters want an English Parliament, I would back that and devomax for Holyrood
"For a government struggling with the perception that lucrative opportunities are available if you know the right people — rules and merit be damned — not requiring an interrogation of Vennells and her senior colleagues under oath is, to put it lightly, not a great look.
Sub-postmasters and their families are not calling for an indiscriminate witch-hunt — that, after all, would make them no different from the faceless bureaucracy at the Post Office that pursued them so relentlessly without care for evidence or consequence. But “lessons learnt” without any repercussions for those who necessitated those lessons in the first place is not justice; it is absolution. We need a full, statutory inquiry, empowered by the state to hear all pertinent evidence and testimony."
We have a full inquiry into Grenfell, and I don't think there's much difference as far as 'lives ruined' are concerned. Even if a number of middle rank Post Office staff are convicted of perjury, that still doesn't absolve the people at the top who must have had questions.
Grenfell was horrific -and being less than two miles away from where I live, I’ve some sense of its continued impact on people. However, far more lives have been ruined by the PO prosecutions.
Both are appalling scandals.
But re the Post Office one, it's not just the numbers of lives ruined, it's also the fact that at every level of the organisation and in a number of other organisations, everything that could go wrong did go wrong.
- The commissioning of the IT system by the Post Office. - The development and delivery of the IT system by Fujitsu. - The failure to test it properly and deal with its failings: Fujitsu and the Post Office. - The auditors who failed to spot the alleged fraud or understand the issues with the Horizon system. - The cover-up of the problems: the Post Office and Fujitsu again. - The investigations by the Post Office: internal Post Office investigators. - The prosecutions by the Post Office: the legal team. - The refusals to deal with the complaints and concerns: senior managers at the Post Office and Ministers.
And these were failings at every level of these organisations: from IT people to investigators, lawyers, middle and senior managers all the way up to the Chief Executive. Every single group of these professionals behaved appallingly and failed to do their job. This was not one mistake which was not picked up. This was mistakes and worse throughout the organisations at every level, over a number of years and involving different groups of professionals and experts, all of whom were simply not fit for purpose. It's hard to overstate how bad this is.
About the only group who come out well of this are the journalists who followed up this story - Nick Wallis, the lawyers who helped the sun-postmasters, Second Sight who spotted the problems but were dismissed for their pains and some of the MPs who eventually helped the sub-postmasters.
Everyone else involved in this affair should hang their head in shame - if that concept has any meaning anymore in our society. I do not share @justin124's views on illegitimate births or insulting babies but feeling shame at bad behaviour is necessary if we are to have a well-ordered society. I feel the same about those involved in Grenfell - all those people treating the manufacture and use of combustible materials in people's homes as some sort of tiresome let's get around the rules game should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
I'm not a Herald subscriber so can't give any more detail than the Constituency vote but I see the SNP are actually up in the latest BMG poll to 49% from BMG's mid March poll.
The Conservative, Labour and LD votes combined though are also on 49%, so I think the Unionist parties will win significantly more than the 1 Conservative and 4 LD constituency seats they are projected via Unionist tactical voting to beat the SNP
Genuine question, to my fellow Essex man, and not trying to make a political point. What evidence is there for significant tactical pro-Unionist voting?
Scottish local by elections
A couple of examples would be helpful. And one has to bear in mind that local factors and personalities, particularly in smaller communities make a difference.
Mr Murray in Edinburgh South, I would think - he is always urging Tories to vote for him.
BTW I wonder what effect having the students disrupted by Covid will have on the vote - could affect LDs in Edinburgh and Fife/St Andrews maybe?
Yes, Labour will hold Edinburgh Southern and maybe Dumbarton and East Lothian too on Thursday due to Tory tactical votes to beat the SNP
HYUFD - what’s your overall prediction for Scotland?
The SNP largest party but no majority on their own but only with the Greens so no change from 2016.
The SNP will also lose seats on the list to the Greens and at the constituency level I think the SNP will lose Moray to the Tories and Caithness, Sutherland and Ross to the LDs and Edinburgh Central will go Labour, not SNP as well
Thanks v much. You’re an honest judge, and well-informed, you don’t let your Toryness blind you. Useful
TBH, I don't think that's fair. It was a straight answer to a straight question. And it didn't suggest that there was a hidden Tory vote that would suddenly appear, mass conversions of Johnsonism, or any other cataclysm.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
Worse than that, isn't it? For the next few years, all that matters really is the views of Conservative MPs.
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
(To be clear, This Is A Bad Thing.)
Last night's thread was compelling and while I ignore @Scott_xP daily anti Boris rantings, @TSE was very interesting and explained many of the allegations against Boris and Carrie and, to be honest if proven, he will have no choice but to resign
Indeed, as the thread continued I became more certain that he is will be out of office sometime this year
All depends how much he wants to keep the job (despite the lack of cash)
I don’t know why he doesn’t do a deal now for his memoirs. Is it illegal? It would certainly look a lot better than asking for donors to pay his childcare
As we discussed last night he will get millions. Problem solved. Unless it’s not allowed
Theory: Post-Premiership Planning would mean yelling the truth to himself- that he is mortal, that there will be a time when someone else is World God and he will be subject to their whims.
None of us like to do that, and I suspect Boris likes that idea less than average. And as a fluent liar, he can probably lie to himself, because that's easy to do.
Today's Thought for the Day is brought to you by the Reverend J C Flannel.
"For a government struggling with the perception that lucrative opportunities are available if you know the right people — rules and merit be damned — not requiring an interrogation of Vennells and her senior colleagues under oath is, to put it lightly, not a great look.
Sub-postmasters and their families are not calling for an indiscriminate witch-hunt — that, after all, would make them no different from the faceless bureaucracy at the Post Office that pursued them so relentlessly without care for evidence or consequence. But “lessons learnt” without any repercussions for those who necessitated those lessons in the first place is not justice; it is absolution. We need a full, statutory inquiry, empowered by the state to hear all pertinent evidence and testimony."
We have a full inquiry into Grenfell, and I don't think there's much difference as far as 'lives ruined' are concerned. Even if a number of middle rank Post Office staff are convicted of perjury, that still doesn't absolve the people at the top who must have had questions.
But, did they perjure themselves? They were assured that the software was working. They believed the assurances. They lacked the competence to detect software errors.
They were gullible. They were stupid. But, these are not crimes.
Vennells was clearly over-promoted -- though she was lauded at the time as a successful working-class woman leading an important company. She was gullible. She was stupid. These are not crimes.
Any public inquiry will conclude that no crimes were committed by the Post Office and its management. Gross incompetence is not a crime.
I am puzzled as to why the buckets of shit are not being poured over the software compare (Fujitsu) that supplied the crappy software that made the errors.
They are more to blame that the wretched Vennells. They supplied the product that caused the problems, and they repeatedly assured Vennells and the Post Office that there was no problem.
Read the emails Vennells sent- she was not asking for issues with the software to be highlighted but to hidden from her.
Vennells has (properly) resigned from her Directorships -- IMO she should have done so much earlier.
She is incompetent and a poor manager. She has a very serious miscarriage of justice on her conscience.
But, she has a degree in Russian and French. She (probably) has zero understanding of software.
The Post Office was repeatedly told by Fujitsu that there was no problem with the software.
I suspect Vennells lacked the skillset, the competence and the curiosity to get to the bottom of the problem. She has poor leadership skills, and she should certainly have her CBE taken away from her.
But, at the heart of this, it is Fujitsu who made the catastrophic mistake, and denied making it. They are software experts, and they had the expertise to test their software. They should be held responsible.
My question is: why are Fujitsu not paying compensation? Why is it the UK taxpayer, through the Government?
I don't like Vennells & I am not defending her. But, surely Fujitsu should be pursued -- they seem to me to be more blameworthy.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
Worse than that, isn't it? For the next few years, all that matters really is the views of Conservative MPs.
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
(To be clear, This Is A Bad Thing.)
Last night's thread was compelling and while I ignore @Scott_xP daily anti Boris rantings, @TSE was very interesting and explained many of the allegations against Boris and Carrie and, to be honest if proven, he will have no choice but to resign
Indeed, as the thread continued I became more certain that he is will be out of office sometime this year
If he could be out before the end of June that would be great
Is the proposal to spend £200 million on another Royal Yacht a serious one?
If so, just no.
The Royal Family can buy their own bloody yacht. And government ministers don't need one.
How they would crew it is the more interesting question. The old one had a complement of nearly 300 (including its own RM band) which is 50% more than T45 destroyer.
HMY Britannia was a unique draft in the RN. Once posted to it rates and officers could stay on it as long as they wanted until retirement. It became a bit of a dumping ground for alcoholics and other useless miscreants. The ship did kill quite a few of them (including one of its COs) with asbestos so at least that saved on pension costs.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
No, I don't think so.
Being coldly logical about it I think a Royal Yacht will easily deliver a positive rate of return to the Exchequer.
If the government is serious about cutting crime it should be spending that money on the criminal justice system so victims and defendants don't have to wait 3 or 4 or more years before a case comes to court. Or in training the police and prosecutors in how to comply with the disclosure rules in criminal trials so that we don't get miscarriages like the Post Office case or the collapse of the Serco fraud trial or the many other criminal cases which have collapsed because of this failure. That would provide a much better rate of return and actually do something to deal with crime which is meant to be one of this government's priorities.
But no opportunities for champagne quaffing so obviously nothing will be done.
I think there is a reasonable likelihood that Boris will step down after the country opens up again. Claim to be the PM who led the vaccine programme and start on the newly re-opened speech circuit making millions.
He has just procured and had painted (at vast expense and with taxpayers' money) a VVIP A321 - not to be confused with VIP A330 and its million quid paint job. There is zero chance he (and FLOTUK) are going to relinquish the post-covid junkets in that to the Goldman-Sachs Elf and his Mrs any time soon.
I agree. Giving up PM to ponce around on the speech circuit and write memoirs? No. Johnson won't go unless he has to. Health. Polling collapse. Criminal charges. GE defeat.
Yes. Possibly true
And while the present rumours look bad for him, remember what Sturgeon has survived. British politics is quite forgiving
Or indeed what Blair survived.
I think Carrie may soon come to be the nation's favourite hate figure, as Cherie was.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
Worse than that, isn't it? For the next few years, all that matters really is the views of Conservative MPs.
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
(To be clear, This Is A Bad Thing.)
Last night's thread was compelling and while I ignore @Scott_xP daily anti Boris rantings, @TSE was very interesting and explained many of the allegations against Boris and Carrie and, to be honest if proven, he will have no choice but to resign
Indeed, as the thread continued I became more certain that he is will be out of office sometime this year
If he could be out before the end of June that would be great
I do not expect him to go on his own accord, but if he has broken the ministerial code and the other enquiries condemn him then he will have to resign whenever that occurs
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
No, I don't think so.
Being coldly logical about it I think a Royal Yacht will easily deliver a positive rate of return to the Exchequer.
I agree. The running costs will be significant, not less than 10 million a year just for keeping it afloat I think. But Britannia was a significant part of Britain's diplomatic apparatus, and that becomes even more important now we're an independent country again.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
The authentic and repellent voice of Toryism today.
Go away and look up what follows hubris.
Elections have consequences, we Tories won a majority of 80 in 2019 and as a consequence legally and constitutionally will deliver our manifesto and what our voters want regardless of what anyone else thinks until the next general election in 2024. Tough
Was the new boat in the manifesto? Genuine question.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
The authentic and repellent voice of Toryism today.
Go away and look up what follows hubris.
Elections have consequences, we Tories won a majority of 80 in 2019 and as a consequence legally and constitutionally will deliver our manifesto and what our voters want regardless of what anyone else thinks until the next general election in 2024. Tough
Was the new boat in the manifesto? Genuine question.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
That is not true though is it? Most definitions of a democracy involve the respect of the rights and opinions of the minority, so it isn't true that all that maters is what Tory voters think.
Decisions should come through argument and debate and the ability to change minds. It is a flaw in our parliamentary set up that although this does happen its design is not ideal for it to flourish.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
The authentic and repellent voice of Toryism today.
Go away and look up what follows hubris.
Elections have consequences, we Tories won a majority of 80 in 2019 and as a consequence legally and constitutionally will deliver our manifesto and what our voters want regardless of what anyone else thinks until the next general election in 2024. Tough
Was the new boat in the manifesto? Genuine question.
I'm not a Herald subscriber so can't give any more detail than the Constituency vote but I see the SNP are actually up in the latest BMG poll to 49% from BMG's mid March poll.
The Conservative, Labour and LD votes combined though are also on 49%, so I think the Unionist parties will win significantly more than the 1 Conservative and 4 LD constituency seats they are projected via Unionist tactical voting to beat the SNP
Genuine question, to my fellow Essex man, and not trying to make a political point. What evidence is there for significant tactical pro-Unionist voting?
Scottish local by elections
A couple of examples would be helpful. And one has to bear in mind that local factors and personalities, particularly in smaller communities make a difference.
Locals are STV as well , so usual guff from this halfwit.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
No, I don't think so.
Being coldly logical about it I think a Royal Yacht will easily deliver a positive rate of return to the Exchequer.
If the government is serious about cutting crime it should be spending that money on the criminal justice system so victims and defendants don't have to wait 3 or 4 or more years before a case comes to court. Or in training the police and prosecutors in how to comply with the disclosure rules in criminal trials so that we don't get miscarriages like the Post Office case or the collapse of the Serco fraud trial or the many other criminal cases which have collapsed because of this failure. That would provide a much better rate of return and actually do something to deal with crime which is meant to be one of this government's priorities.
But no opportunities for champagne quaffing so obviously nothing will be done.
To be fair to the police, the Post Office were their own prosecutors. Unless I've seriously misread Private Eye!
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
No, I don't think so.
Being coldly logical about it I think a Royal Yacht will easily deliver a positive rate of return to the Exchequer.
I agree. The running costs will be significant, not less than 10 million a year just for keeping it afloat I think. But Britannia was a significant part of Britain's diplomatic apparatus, and that becomes even more important now we're an independent country again.
Ignoring the "independent country" crap, how can you be so sure that the Duke of Edinburgh boat will be as "successful" as the Britannia in the modern era?
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
Worse than that, isn't it? For the next few years, all that matters really is the views of Conservative MPs.
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
(To be clear, This Is A Bad Thing.)
Last night's thread was compelling and while I ignore @Scott_xP daily anti Boris rantings, @TSE was very interesting and explained many of the allegations against Boris and Carrie and, to be honest if proven, he will have no choice but to resign
Indeed, as the thread continued I became more certain that he is will be out of office sometime this year
All depends how much he wants to keep the job (despite the lack of cash)
I don’t know why he doesn’t do a deal now for his memoirs. Is it illegal? It would certainly look a lot better than asking for donors to pay his childcare
As we discussed last night he will get millions. Problem solved. Unless it’s not allowed
Can't a Tory donor be found to give Carrie a highly-paid non-job so she can pay for the nanny and the wallpaper? Look at George Osborne's 2016 sinecures (2016 being the number and the year).
"For a government struggling with the perception that lucrative opportunities are available if you know the right people — rules and merit be damned — not requiring an interrogation of Vennells and her senior colleagues under oath is, to put it lightly, not a great look.
Sub-postmasters and their families are not calling for an indiscriminate witch-hunt — that, after all, would make them no different from the faceless bureaucracy at the Post Office that pursued them so relentlessly without care for evidence or consequence. But “lessons learnt” without any repercussions for those who necessitated those lessons in the first place is not justice; it is absolution. We need a full, statutory inquiry, empowered by the state to hear all pertinent evidence and testimony."
We have a full inquiry into Grenfell, and I don't think there's much difference as far as 'lives ruined' are concerned. Even if a number of middle rank Post Office staff are convicted of perjury, that still doesn't absolve the people at the top who must have had questions.
But, did they perjure themselves? They were assured that the software was working. They believed the assurances. They lacked the competence to detect software errors.
They were gullible. They were stupid. But, these are not crimes.
Vennells was clearly over-promoted -- though she was lauded at the time as a successful working-class woman leading an important company. She was gullible. She was stupid. These are not crimes.
Any public inquiry will conclude that no crimes were committed by the Post Office and its management. Gross incompetence is not a crime.
I am puzzled as to why the buckets of shit are not being poured over the software compare (Fujitsu) that supplied the crappy software that made the errors.
They are more to blame that the wretched Vennells. They supplied the product that caused the problems, and they repeatedly assured Vennells and the Post Office that there was no problem.
Read the emails Vennells sent- she was not asking for issues with the software to be highlighted but to hidden from her.
Vennells has (properly) resigned from her Directorships -- IMO she should have done so much earlier.
She is incompetent and a poor manager. She has a very serious miscarriage of justice on her conscience.
But, she has a degree in Russian and French. She (probably) has zero understanding of software.
The Post Office was repeatedly told by Fujitsu that there was no problem with the software.
I suspect Vennells lacked the skillset, the competence and the curiosity to get to the bottom of the problem. She has poor leadership skills, and she should certainly have her CBE taken away from her.
But, at the heart of this, it is Fujitsu who made the catastrophic mistake, and denied making it. They are software experts, and they had the expertise to test their software. They should be held responsible.
My question is: why are Fujitsu not paying compensation? Why is it the UK taxpayer, through the Government?
I don't like Vennells & I am not defending her. But, surely Fujitsu should be pursued -- they seem to me to be more blameworthy.
I quite agree. The judges have referred the evidence of some of the Fujitsu employees for further investigation. But the Post Office presumably had a Head of IT. Was he/she another ignoramus who knew nothing about IT and did not have the wit to ask some pretty obvious and basic questions?
I am not an IT expert but pretty much all my cases have involved some serious interrogation of IT systems. You need the ability to ask basic and obvious questions and if you get waffle you don't understand you keep on asking until you do understand. If you cannot manage this much you are not, IMO, fit for anything much more than putting the bins out for collection.
There is nothing in this life so complicated that someone who understands it cannot explain it simply. And if they can't, one of two things is happening: either they don't understand it themselves or they are trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. Any halfway competent manager - let alone a CEO - should be able to understand IT systems sufficiently, especially when this amount of money is being spent and when problems start appearing. And they should be getting good people working for them with the technical understanding they don't have.
We are far too willing to let people off the hook. These people are being paid good salaries to do their job properly not to behave like monkeys seeing, hearing, saying nothing.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
Worse than that, isn't it? For the next few years, all that matters really is the views of Conservative MPs.
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
(To be clear, This Is A Bad Thing.)
Last night's thread was compelling and while I ignore @Scott_xP daily anti Boris rantings, @TSE was very interesting and explained many of the allegations against Boris and Carrie and, to be honest if proven, he will have no choice but to resign
Indeed, as the thread continued I became more certain that he is will be out of office sometime this year
If he could be out before the end of June that would be great
I do not expect him to go on his own accord, but if he has broken the ministerial code and the other enquiries condemn him then he will have to resign whenever that occurs
But there's not much "has to". For a start, the PM is the ultimate arbiter of the Ministerial Code. Secondly, there is a substantial block of opinion- especially amongst older/Conservative/Leave voters- that are happy to wave anything through, because Boris. And that's the base Conservative MPs will be looking to.
Obviously, he ought to go in those circumstances. But the mechanisms to make him go are pretty easy for him to ignore, unless the police get involved.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
No, I don't think so.
Being coldly logical about it I think a Royal Yacht will easily deliver a positive rate of return to the Exchequer.
If the government is serious about cutting crime it should be spending that money on the criminal justice system so victims and defendants don't have to wait 3 or 4 or more years before a case comes to court. Or in training the police and prosecutors in how to comply with the disclosure rules in criminal trials so that we don't get miscarriages like the Post Office case or the collapse of the Serco fraud trial or the many other criminal cases which have collapsed because of this failure. That would provide a much better rate of return and actually do something to deal with crime which is meant to be one of this government's priorities.
But no opportunities for champagne quaffing so obviously nothing will be done.
To be fair to the police, the Post Office were their own prosecutors. Unless I've seriously misread Private Eye!
Correct. These were private prosecutions which continued long after concerns about Horizon were known at every level in the organisation. Fraud prosecutions went from a handful a year to the large relative numbers seen with the scandal.
Cost of redecoration of flat ~ 100k, paid for -- after a bit of fuss -- apparently by the PM. Cost to taxpayers -- zero. Total amount of postings on blogs and words in newspapers ~ billions.
Cost of mahossive Greensill Capital / Gupta corruption to taxpayers ~ up to 5 billion (source: Guardian). Total amount of postings on blogs and words in newspapers ~ at most a few hundred.
It is Filthy, Greedy Cameron who should be under the spotlight.
It is proof that most people are not actually interested in tackling serious fraud or corruption. They are only interested in using corruption as a party political stick.
Now that Cameron is no longer a front line politician -- and despite his behaviour being massively more expensive for the taxpayer -- no-one is very interested.
Your defence of Johnson and condemnation of Cameron is fascinating. I am old enough to remember political scandals going back to Polson, T. Dan Smith and of course closer to home Graham Jenkins. Scoundrels with both red and blue stripes. I call them all out.
The Cameron/ Greensill affair stinks to high heaven, and the pong seems to be circling Downing Street. From what we have heard of Greensill so far, Johnson seems to have avoided it which is great, and Cameron is a busted flush anyway, so nothing to see until the inquiry and/or court cases tell us more. Any allegations of Greensill impropriety amongst Ministers counld and should be dealt with today by Johnson.
So what of the wallpaper? I, like you, up until last night thought there was nothing to see. Fifty grand on curtains? My wife could manage that, if only I had it, and Carrie's chap just saved 67m people from imminent death, so what's the fuss? However TSE revelations regarding donors paying contractors directly adds a new and very alarming dimension to the case. He can survive the tasteless wallpaper, but should he survive the receipt and rulebreaking?
Excepting that cell in The Hague with Blair's name on it, we don't want to see serving and former Prime Ministers in handcuffs (this is not France). But a life of charitable recantation, a la John Profumo, might be called for,, and for both Cameron and Johnson.
Your defence of Johnson and condemnation of Cameron ....
I am not defending Johnson. I think he is a chancer. I am pointing out that there is a little crook and a big crook. Let's spend some time on the infamous Mr Big.
As I recall (and I haven't looked up your link) the airport purchase had the unpleasant aroma of an ageing Peter's pie about it. If Carwyn and Drakeford should be locked away forever, so be it. I don't see how that lets your boy off the hook though.
"...your boy ..." ??????????????????
I don't have any boy.
My only thesis is most people are mainly interested in corruption from a partisan, party political POV.
Johnson is the PM, and so minor misdemeanours from him are of vastly more interest than major misdemeanours by Cameron.
From the information in the public domain, Cameron seems to have behaved in a much more grave manner.
No Cameron hasn't! uUwise, and who knows, possibly verging on the very dodgy perhaps, and of course due process will run to its conclusion. But, but, the allegations against Johnson are no longer minor misdemeanours.
I thought the wallpaper issue was a sideshow and Labour were wasting their time, but yesterday's revelations are a serious allegation relating to the proberty of the Prime Minister.
Angela Rayner's point of funding Wilfred's nannying costs whilst voting against free school meals hits the political target, even if it is a cheap shot.
And an even cheaper shot could be on its way in the form of Cummings on May 26th.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
Worse than that, isn't it? For the next few years, all that matters really is the views of Conservative MPs.
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
(To be clear, This Is A Bad Thing.)
Last night's thread was compelling and while I ignore @Scott_xP daily anti Boris rantings, @TSE was very interesting and explained many of the allegations against Boris and Carrie and, to be honest if proven, he will have no choice but to resign
Indeed, as the thread continued I became more certain that he is will be out of office sometime this year
If he could be out before the end of June that would be great
I do not expect him to go on his own accord, but if he has broken the ministerial code and the other enquiries condemn him then he will have to resign whenever that occurs
But there's not much "has to". For a start, the PM is the ultimate arbiter of the Ministerial Code. Secondly, there is a substantial block of opinion- especially amongst older/Conservative/Leave voters- that are happy to wave anything through, because Boris. And that's the base Conservative MPs will be looking to.
Obviously, he ought to go in those circumstances. But the mechanisms to make him go are pretty easy for him to ignore, unless the police get involved.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
Worse than that, isn't it? For the next few years, all that matters really is the views of Conservative MPs.
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
(To be clear, This Is A Bad Thing.)
Last night's thread was compelling and while I ignore @Scott_xP daily anti Boris rantings, @TSE was very interesting and explained many of the allegations against Boris and Carrie and, to be honest if proven, he will have no choice but to resign
Indeed, as the thread continued I became more certain that he is will be out of office sometime this year
All depends how much he wants to keep the job (despite the lack of cash)
I don’t know why he doesn’t do a deal now for his memoirs. Is it illegal? It would certainly look a lot better than asking for donors to pay his childcare
As we discussed last night he will get millions. Problem solved. Unless it’s not allowed
Can't a Tory donor be found to give Carrie a highly-paid non-job so she can pay for the nanny and the wallpaper? Look at George Osborne's 2016 sinecures (2016 being the number and the year).
I though the usual way this was resolved is through speaking opportunities.
Carrie is paid 100 k to go some place and give a speech.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
No, I don't think so.
Being coldly logical about it I think a Royal Yacht will easily deliver a positive rate of return to the Exchequer.
If the government is serious about cutting crime it should be spending that money on the criminal justice system so victims and defendants don't have to wait 3 or 4 or more years before a case comes to court. Or in training the police and prosecutors in how to comply with the disclosure rules in criminal trials so that we don't get miscarriages like the Post Office case or the collapse of the Serco fraud trial or the many other criminal cases which have collapsed because of this failure. That would provide a much better rate of return and actually do something to deal with crime which is meant to be one of this government's priorities.
But no opportunities for champagne quaffing so obviously nothing will be done.
To be fair to the police, the Post Office were their own prosecutors. Unless I've seriously misread Private Eye!
That's why I used the phrase "police and prosecutors". The Post Office lawyers failed to comply with the rules as did the SFO. As do the police. And the CPS. One of the single best investments we could make if we are serious about wanting to punish criminals is training the relevant authorities on these rules until they get them right.
What’s your thoughts on Hartlepool and Tees mayor now ? After the weekend polls ?
I still think Hartlepool will be a clear Con win but I'm slightly less sure than I was.
Ben Houchen is nailed on to win in any case, I think. Even I'd probably vote for him.
Yep, I would too. I think he’s done a grand job and deserves a second term.
Journalist Sherelle Jacobs, who I follow on Twitter, was up in Hartlepool and found no enthusiasm for labour at all but it was not, or didn’t have the feel, of 2019. She called the landslide in the red wall well before the 2019 election but thinks this is different. I respect her commentary.
If labour do well Thursday it should be no comfort to,them as it will all be due to Tory implosion and little to do with their offer. Starmer and Rayner will likely never come to Hartlepool again after the end of next week and National labour care little for the inhabitants only their votes. Labour have learnt nothing from the fall of the red wall and if it goes back to them due to Johnson’s numerous flaws as a politician then they have no reason to do anything for the region.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
No, I don't think so.
Being coldly logical about it I think a Royal Yacht will easily deliver a positive rate of return to the Exchequer.
I agree. The running costs will be significant, not less than 10 million a year just for keeping it afloat I think. But Britannia was a significant part of Britain's diplomatic apparatus, and that becomes even more important now we're an independent country again.
There has been significant yacht inflation so for it to be remotely impressive it would have to be on the scale of something like Maktoum's 'Dubai' which cost nearly half a billion.
It's politically impossible because the Queen would not live to see the fucking thing built so you'd be asking the taxpayer to fund a gin palace for Gobshite and Snaggletooth to the tune of several hundred million quid.
I don't much about yachts but I am partially responsible for the permanent ban of the Fleet Air Arm from the Royal Bombay Yacht Club.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
Worse than that, isn't it? For the next few years, all that matters really is the views of Conservative MPs.
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
(To be clear, This Is A Bad Thing.)
Last night's thread was compelling and while I ignore @Scott_xP daily anti Boris rantings, @TSE was very interesting and explained many of the allegations against Boris and Carrie and, to be honest if proven, he will have no choice but to resign
Indeed, as the thread continued I became more certain that he is will be out of office sometime this year
All depends how much he wants to keep the job (despite the lack of cash)
I don’t know why he doesn’t do a deal now for his memoirs. Is it illegal? It would certainly look a lot better than asking for donors to pay his childcare
As we discussed last night he will get millions. Problem solved. Unless it’s not allowed
Can't a Tory donor be found to give Carrie a highly-paid non-job so she can pay for the nanny and the wallpaper? Look at George Osborne's 2016 sinecures (2016 being the number and the year).
I though the usual way this was resolved is through speaking opportunities.
Carrie is paid 100 k to go some place and give a speech.
Or - here's an idea - she learns to live within her means, as the rest of the population has to.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
Worse than that, isn't it? For the next few years, all that matters really is the views of Conservative MPs.
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
(To be clear, This Is A Bad Thing.)
Last night's thread was compelling and while I ignore @Scott_xP daily anti Boris rantings, @TSE was very interesting and explained many of the allegations against Boris and Carrie and, to be honest if proven, he will have no choice but to resign
Indeed, as the thread continued I became more certain that he is will be out of office sometime this year
If he could be out before the end of June that would be great
I do not expect him to go on his own accord, but if he has broken the ministerial code and the other enquiries condemn him then he will have to resign whenever that occurs
But there's not much "has to". For a start, the PM is the ultimate arbiter of the Ministerial Code. Secondly, there is a substantial block of opinion- especially amongst older/Conservative/Leave voters- that are happy to wave anything through, because Boris. And that's the base Conservative MPs will be looking to.
Obviously, he ought to go in those circumstances. But the mechanisms to make him go are pretty easy for him to ignore, unless the police get involved.
Fair comment
This is the problem with having a system based on the unspoken understanding that the people at the top are Good Chaps. When they are not the system breaks down.
"For a government struggling with the perception that lucrative opportunities are available if you know the right people — rules and merit be damned — not requiring an interrogation of Vennells and her senior colleagues under oath is, to put it lightly, not a great look.
Sub-postmasters and their families are not calling for an indiscriminate witch-hunt — that, after all, would make them no different from the faceless bureaucracy at the Post Office that pursued them so relentlessly without care for evidence or consequence. But “lessons learnt” without any repercussions for those who necessitated those lessons in the first place is not justice; it is absolution. We need a full, statutory inquiry, empowered by the state to hear all pertinent evidence and testimony."
We have a full inquiry into Grenfell, and I don't think there's much difference as far as 'lives ruined' are concerned. Even if a number of middle rank Post Office staff are convicted of perjury, that still doesn't absolve the people at the top who must have had questions.
But, did they perjure themselves? They were assured that the software was working. They believed the assurances. They lacked the competence to detect software errors.
They were gullible. They were stupid. But, these are not crimes.
Vennells was clearly over-promoted -- though she was lauded at the time as a successful working-class woman leading an important company. She was gullible. She was stupid. These are not crimes.
Any public inquiry will conclude that no crimes were committed by the Post Office and its management. Gross incompetence is not a crime.
I am puzzled as to why the buckets of shit are not being poured over the software compare (Fujitsu) that supplied the crappy software that made the errors.
They are more to blame that the wretched Vennells. They supplied the product that caused the problems, and they repeatedly assured Vennells and the Post Office that there was no problem.
Read the emails Vennells sent- she was not asking for issues with the software to be highlighted but to hidden from her.
Vennells has (properly) resigned from her Directorships -- IMO she should have done so much earlier.
She is incompetent and a poor manager. She has a very serious miscarriage of justice on her conscience.
But, she has a degree in Russian and French. She (probably) has zero understanding of software.
The Post Office was repeatedly told by Fujitsu that there was no problem with the software.
I suspect Vennells lacked the skillset, the competence and the curiosity to get to the bottom of the problem. She has poor leadership skills, and she should certainly have her CBE taken away from her.
But, at the heart of this, it is Fujitsu who made the catastrophic mistake, and denied making it. They are software experts, and they had the expertise to test their software. They should be held responsible.
My question is: why are Fujitsu not paying compensation? Why is it the UK taxpayer, through the Government?
I don't like Vennells & I am not defending her. But, surely Fujitsu should be pursued -- they seem to me to be more blameworthy.
It just highlights the lack of technocratic management in the UK.
Generalists rule the roost with the perception that you might have a read medieval French history but its the institution that matters and not the skillset.
Angela Rayner's point of funding Wilfred's nannying costs whilst voting against free school meals hits the political target, even if it is a cheap shot.
What is the evidence for this?
It seems to be at the compelling level of "Arlene Foster was having an affair with her protection officer."
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
Worse than that, isn't it? For the next few years, all that matters really is the views of Conservative MPs.
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
(To be clear, This Is A Bad Thing.)
Last night's thread was compelling and while I ignore @Scott_xP daily anti Boris rantings, @TSE was very interesting and explained many of the allegations against Boris and Carrie and, to be honest if proven, he will have no choice but to resign
Indeed, as the thread continued I became more certain that he is will be out of office sometime this year
All depends how much he wants to keep the job (despite the lack of cash)
I don’t know why he doesn’t do a deal now for his memoirs. Is it illegal? It would certainly look a lot better than asking for donors to pay his childcare
As we discussed last night he will get millions. Problem solved. Unless it’s not allowed
Can't a Tory donor be found to give Carrie a highly-paid non-job so she can pay for the nanny and the wallpaper? Look at George Osborne's 2016 sinecures (2016 being the number and the year).
I though the usual way this was resolved is through speaking opportunities.
Carrie is paid 100 k to go some place and give a speech.
Or - here's an idea - she learns to live within her means, as the rest of the population has to.
I suggested it because Cherie received money to give speeches whilst Tony Blair was premier.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
No, I don't think so.
Being coldly logical about it I think a Royal Yacht will easily deliver a positive rate of return to the Exchequer.
If the government is serious about cutting crime it should be spending that money on the criminal justice system so victims and defendants don't have to wait 3 or 4 or more years before a case comes to court. Or in training the police and prosecutors in how to comply with the disclosure rules in criminal trials so that we don't get miscarriages like the Post Office case or the collapse of the Serco fraud trial or the many other criminal cases which have collapsed because of this failure. That would provide a much better rate of return and actually do something to deal with crime which is meant to be one of this government's priorities.
But no opportunities for champagne quaffing so obviously nothing will be done.
To be fair to the police, the Post Office were their own prosecutors. Unless I've seriously misread Private Eye!
Correct. These were private prosecutions which continued long after concerns about Horizon were known at every level in the organisation. Fraud prosecutions went from a handful a year to the large relative numbers seen with the scandal.
They were also at a very much greater level than in pre-Horizon days, which surely must have led to head-scratching among management. Why are we employing so many crooks now, when we apparently didn't in the past? Or, how much was siphoned off in the past, if so much is being siphoned off now? So, was there any tightening up of the recruitment process for sub-postmasters? If not, why not?
I'm not a Herald subscriber so can't give any more detail than the Constituency vote but I see the SNP are actually up in the latest BMG poll to 49% from BMG's mid March poll.
The Conservative, Labour and LD votes combined though are also on 49%, so I think the Unionist parties will win significantly more than the 1 Conservative and 4 LD constituency seats they are projected via Unionist tactical voting to beat the SNP
Genuine question, to my fellow Essex man, and not trying to make a political point. What evidence is there for significant tactical pro-Unionist voting?
Scottish local by elections
It’s easier to vote tactically in local elections, which use STV, than in Holyrood elections, which use D’Hondt.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
No, I don't think so.
Being coldly logical about it I think a Royal Yacht will easily deliver a positive rate of return to the Exchequer.
If the government is serious about cutting crime it should be spending that money on the criminal justice system so victims and defendants don't have to wait 3 or 4 or more years before a case comes to court. Or in training the police and prosecutors in how to comply with the disclosure rules in criminal trials so that we don't get miscarriages like the Post Office case or the collapse of the Serco fraud trial or the many other criminal cases which have collapsed because of this failure. That would provide a much better rate of return and actually do something to deal with crime which is meant to be one of this government's priorities.
But no opportunities for champagne quaffing so obviously nothing will be done.
To be fair to the police, the Post Office were their own prosecutors. Unless I've seriously misread Private Eye!
Correct. These were private prosecutions which continued long after concerns about Horizon were known at every level in the organisation. Fraud prosecutions went from a handful a year to the large relative numbers seen with the scandal.
Every single lawyer involved in those prosecutions who failed to disclose material about Horizon's failings to the defence, as required by the criminal disclosure rules, was in breach of their professional standards and the duties they owe to the court (which override those owed to the client) and may well also have committed acts capable of amounting to perversion of the course of justice.
What’s your thoughts on Hartlepool and Tees mayor now ? After the weekend polls ?
I still think Hartlepool will be a clear Con win but I'm slightly less sure than I was.
Ben Houchen is nailed on to win in any case, I think. Even I'd probably vote for him.
Yep, I would too. I think he’s done a grand job and deserves a second term.
Journalist Sherelle Jacobs, who I follow on Twitter, was up in Hartlepool and found no enthusiasm for labour at all but it was not, or didn’t have the feel, of 2019. She called the landslide in the red wall well before the 2019 election but thinks this is different. I respect her commentary.
If labour do well Thursday it should be no comfort to,them as it will all be due to Tory implosion and little to do with their offer. Starmer and Rayner will likely never come to Hartlepool again after the end of next week and National labour care little for the inhabitants only their votes. Labour have learnt nothing from the fall of the red wall and if it goes back to them due to Johnson’s numerous flaws as a politician then they have no reason to do anything for the region.
There are her most recent two comments:
Too close to call in Hartlepool. Voters less concerned with Tory sleaze than Labour’s track record of corrupt complacency in its old stronghold. But historic dislike of Tories persists. Locals also doubt Tory biz credentials.
Tories don’t have Hartlepool in bag. Gold wallpaper has no cut through. But neither does vaccine “bounce”. Anti-Labour sentiment is palpable. But atmosphere here feels different to 2019 when I met endless Red Wall Tory switchers. In Hartlepool haven’t met even one. Seems v tight
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
No, I don't think so.
Being coldly logical about it I think a Royal Yacht will easily deliver a positive rate of return to the Exchequer.
If the government is serious about cutting crime it should be spending that money on the criminal justice system so victims and defendants don't have to wait 3 or 4 or more years before a case comes to court. Or in training the police and prosecutors in how to comply with the disclosure rules in criminal trials so that we don't get miscarriages like the Post Office case or the collapse of the Serco fraud trial or the many other criminal cases which have collapsed because of this failure. That would provide a much better rate of return and actually do something to deal with crime which is meant to be one of this government's priorities.
But no opportunities for champagne quaffing so obviously nothing will be done.
To be fair to the police, the Post Office were their own prosecutors. Unless I've seriously misread Private Eye!
Correct. These were private prosecutions which continued long after concerns about Horizon were known at every level in the organisation. Fraud prosecutions went from a handful a year to the large relative numbers seen with the scandal.
They were also at a very much greater level than in pre-Horizon days, which surely must have led to head-scratching among management. Why are we employing so many crooks now, when we apparently didn't in the past?
The answer is: "We have this incredible piece of new software from Fujitsu that is enabling us to detect fraud that previously went unnoticed".
Angela Rayner's point of funding Wilfred's nannying costs whilst voting against free school meals hits the political target, even if it is a cheap shot.
What is the evidence for this?
This is pure 22nd June 2016 thinking. We're in a different world now, of which Johnson is one of the principal architects, where concepts like 'evidence' have no purchase.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
We Tories have a majority of 80, all that matters is what Tory voters think until 2024
Worse than that, isn't it? For the next few years, all that matters really is the views of Conservative MPs.
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
(To be clear, This Is A Bad Thing.)
Last night's thread was compelling and while I ignore @Scott_xP daily anti Boris rantings, @TSE was very interesting and explained many of the allegations against Boris and Carrie and, to be honest if proven, he will have no choice but to resign
Indeed, as the thread continued I became more certain that he is will be out of office sometime this year
All depends how much he wants to keep the job (despite the lack of cash)
I don’t know why he doesn’t do a deal now for his memoirs. Is it illegal? It would certainly look a lot better than asking for donors to pay his childcare
As we discussed last night he will get millions. Problem solved. Unless it’s not allowed
Can't a Tory donor be found to give Carrie a highly-paid non-job so she can pay for the nanny and the wallpaper? Look at George Osborne's 2016 sinecures (2016 being the number and the year).
I though the usual way this was resolved is through speaking opportunities.
Carrie is paid 100 k to go some place and give a speech.
Or - here's an idea - she learns to live within her means, as the rest of the population has to.
I suggested it because Cherie received money to give speeches whilst Tony Blair was premier.
Cherie was a working lawyer and quite a good one. She acted for a friend of mine in an employment claim. She wasn't getting paid for nothing. And if she spent money foolishly it was money she had earned herself.
What’s your thoughts on Hartlepool and Tees mayor now ? After the weekend polls ?
I still think Hartlepool will be a clear Con win but I'm slightly less sure than I was.
Ben Houchen is nailed on to win in any case, I think. Even I'd probably vote for him.
Yep, I would too. I think he’s done a grand job and deserves a second term.
Journalist Sherelle Jacobs, who I follow on Twitter, was up in Hartlepool and found no enthusiasm for labour at all but it was not, or didn’t have the feel, of 2019. She called the landslide in the red wall well before the 2019 election but thinks this is different. I respect her commentary.
If labour do well Thursday it should be no comfort to,them as it will all be due to Tory implosion and little to do with their offer. Starmer and Rayner will likely never come to Hartlepool again after the end of next week and National labour care little for the inhabitants only their votes. Labour have learnt nothing from the fall of the red wall and if it goes back to them due to Johnson’s numerous flaws as a politician then they have no reason to do anything for the region.
There are her most recent two comments:
Too close to call in Hartlepool. Voters less concerned with Tory sleaze than Labour’s track record of corrupt complacency in its old stronghold. But historic dislike of Tories persists. Locals also doubt Tory biz credentials.
Tories don’t have Hartlepool in bag. Gold wallpaper has no cut through. But neither does vaccine “bounce”. Anti-Labour sentiment is palpable. But atmosphere here feels different to 2019 when I met endless Red Wall Tory switchers. In Hartlepool haven’t met even one. Seems v tight
If the Conservatives had won Hartlepool in 2019 it would only have been by a narrow majority.
So 'too close to call' currently would suggest little change from then.
No Labour to Conservative switchers isn't unexpected either - all those moving from Labour would have done so in 2019 either to BXP or Conservative.
So the key points continue to be what happens to the 2019 BXP voters and which party is able to motivate its 2019 voters to go and vote again.
I saw on LinkedIn the chancellor, Ben Houchen and the Tory candidate were at a TT Electronics factory in the seat on Friday really pushing the jobs, prosperity and business side.
Hartlepool May be remote but it isn’t humberside or Norfolk remoteness. It is close to the A19 and A1. There is no reason it cannot benefit from the industry that is looking to come to the region.
I agree on BXP voters. People,automatically assume they are all Tories or will go to the Tories but many of them came from labour in places like this. These are voters that labour now desperately want to woo but were labelled thick, uneducated, voting against their own interests and racist by many labour supporters and remain supporters over brexit.
What’s your thoughts on Hartlepool and Tees mayor now ? After the weekend polls ?
I still think Hartlepool will be a clear Con win but I'm slightly less sure than I was.
Ben Houchen is nailed on to win in any case, I think. Even I'd probably vote for him.
Yep, I would too. I think he’s done a grand job and deserves a second term.
Journalist Sherelle Jacobs, who I follow on Twitter, was up in Hartlepool and found no enthusiasm for labour at all but it was not, or didn’t have the feel, of 2019. She called the landslide in the red wall well before the 2019 election but thinks this is different. I respect her commentary.
If labour do well Thursday it should be no comfort to,them as it will all be due to Tory implosion and little to do with their offer. Starmer and Rayner will likely never come to Hartlepool again after the end of next week and National labour care little for the inhabitants only their votes. Labour have learnt nothing from the fall of the red wall and if it goes back to them due to Johnson’s numerous flaws as a politician then they have no reason to do anything for the region.
There are her most recent two comments:
Too close to call in Hartlepool. Voters less concerned with Tory sleaze than Labour’s track record of corrupt complacency in its old stronghold. But historic dislike of Tories persists. Locals also doubt Tory biz credentials.
Tories don’t have Hartlepool in bag. Gold wallpaper has no cut through. But neither does vaccine “bounce”. Anti-Labour sentiment is palpable. But atmosphere here feels different to 2019 when I met endless Red Wall Tory switchers. In Hartlepool haven’t met even one. Seems v tight
"For a government struggling with the perception that lucrative opportunities are available if you know the right people — rules and merit be damned — not requiring an interrogation of Vennells and her senior colleagues under oath is, to put it lightly, not a great look.
Sub-postmasters and their families are not calling for an indiscriminate witch-hunt — that, after all, would make them no different from the faceless bureaucracy at the Post Office that pursued them so relentlessly without care for evidence or consequence. But “lessons learnt” without any repercussions for those who necessitated those lessons in the first place is not justice; it is absolution. We need a full, statutory inquiry, empowered by the state to hear all pertinent evidence and testimony."
We have a full inquiry into Grenfell, and I don't think there's much difference as far as 'lives ruined' are concerned. Even if a number of middle rank Post Office staff are convicted of perjury, that still doesn't absolve the people at the top who must have had questions.
But, did they perjure themselves? They were assured that the software was working. They believed the assurances. They lacked the competence to detect software errors.
They were gullible. They were stupid. But, these are not crimes.
Vennells was clearly over-promoted -- though she was lauded at the time as a successful working-class woman leading an important company. She was gullible. She was stupid. These are not crimes.
Any public inquiry will conclude that no crimes were committed by the Post Office and its management. Gross incompetence is not a crime.
I am puzzled as to why the buckets of shit are not being poured over the software compare (Fujitsu) that supplied the crappy software that made the errors.
They are more to blame that the wretched Vennells. They supplied the product that caused the problems, and they repeatedly assured Vennells and the Post Office that there was no problem.
Read the emails Vennells sent- she was not asking for issues with the software to be highlighted but to hidden from her.
Vennells has (properly) resigned from her Directorships -- IMO she should have done so much earlier.
She is incompetent and a poor manager. She has a very serious miscarriage of justice on her conscience.
But, she has a degree in Russian and French. She (probably) has zero understanding of software.
The Post Office was repeatedly told by Fujitsu that there was no problem with the software.
I suspect Vennells lacked the skillset, the competence and the curiosity to get to the bottom of the problem. She has poor leadership skills, and she should certainly have her CBE taken away from her.
But, at the heart of this, it is Fujitsu who made the catastrophic mistake, and denied making it. They are software experts, and they had the expertise to test their software. They should be held responsible.
My question is: why are Fujitsu not paying compensation? Why is it the UK taxpayer, through the Government?
I don't like Vennells & I am not defending her. But, surely Fujitsu should be pursued -- they seem to me to be more blameworthy.
I quite agree. The judges have referred the evidence of some of the Fujitsu employees for further investigation. But the Post Office presumably had a Head of IT. Was he/she another ignoramus who knew nothing about IT and did not have the wit to ask some pretty obvious and basic questions?
I am not an IT expert but pretty much all my cases have involved some serious interrogation of IT systems. You need the ability to ask basic and obvious questions and if you get waffle you don't understand you keep on asking until you do understand. If you cannot manage this much you are not, IMO, fit for anything much more than putting the bins out for collection.
There is nothing in this life so complicated that someone who understands it cannot explain it simply. And if they can't, one of two things is happening: either they don't understand it themselves or they are trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. Any halfway competent manager - let alone a CEO - should be able to understand IT systems sufficiently, especially when this amount of money is being spent and when problems start appearing. And they should be getting good people working for them with the technical understanding they don't have.
We are far too willing to let people off the hook. These people are being paid good salaries to do their job properly not to behave like monkeys seeing, hearing, saying nothing.
As far as I am concerned Vennells should be in jail. She was the Chief Executive at the time when the Post Office ordered Second Sight to abandon their investigations and destroy any remaining paperwork one day before they were due to issue a damning report into the Horizon scandal. She clearly knew that the PO was at fault and that people were having their lives ruined because of a failure by the Post Office and yet she chose to suppress those findings and allow people to remain in jail or eventually commit suicide rather than admit the Post Office got it wrong.
She deserves no sympathy or understanding for this. She deserve to be prosecuted.
So apparently trade negotiators will just capitulate to anything the U.K. wants because they’re fed a Michelin starred meal on HMS Prince Philip ! Another load of jingoistic flag waving nonsense from this cesspit of a government .
What’s your thoughts on Hartlepool and Tees mayor now ? After the weekend polls ?
I still think Hartlepool will be a clear Con win but I'm slightly less sure than I was.
Ben Houchen is nailed on to win in any case, I think. Even I'd probably vote for him.
Yep, I would too. I think he’s done a grand job and deserves a second term.
Journalist Sherelle Jacobs, who I follow on Twitter, was up in Hartlepool and found no enthusiasm for labour at all but it was not, or didn’t have the feel, of 2019. She called the landslide in the red wall well before the 2019 election but thinks this is different. I respect her commentary.
If labour do well Thursday it should be no comfort to,them as it will all be due to Tory implosion and little to do with their offer. Starmer and Rayner will likely never come to Hartlepool again after the end of next week and National labour care little for the inhabitants only their votes. Labour have learnt nothing from the fall of the red wall and if it goes back to them due to Johnson’s numerous flaws as a politician then they have no reason to do anything for the region.
There are her most recent two comments:
Too close to call in Hartlepool. Voters less concerned with Tory sleaze than Labour’s track record of corrupt complacency in its old stronghold. But historic dislike of Tories persists. Locals also doubt Tory biz credentials.
Tories don’t have Hartlepool in bag. Gold wallpaper has no cut through. But neither does vaccine “bounce”. Anti-Labour sentiment is palpable. But atmosphere here feels different to 2019 when I met endless Red Wall Tory switchers. In Hartlepool haven’t met even one. Seems v tight
"For a government struggling with the perception that lucrative opportunities are available if you know the right people — rules and merit be damned — not requiring an interrogation of Vennells and her senior colleagues under oath is, to put it lightly, not a great look.
Sub-postmasters and their families are not calling for an indiscriminate witch-hunt — that, after all, would make them no different from the faceless bureaucracy at the Post Office that pursued them so relentlessly without care for evidence or consequence. But “lessons learnt” without any repercussions for those who necessitated those lessons in the first place is not justice; it is absolution. We need a full, statutory inquiry, empowered by the state to hear all pertinent evidence and testimony."
We have a full inquiry into Grenfell, and I don't think there's much difference as far as 'lives ruined' are concerned. Even if a number of middle rank Post Office staff are convicted of perjury, that still doesn't absolve the people at the top who must have had questions.
But, did they perjure themselves? They were assured that the software was working. They believed the assurances. They lacked the competence to detect software errors.
They were gullible. They were stupid. But, these are not crimes.
Vennells was clearly over-promoted -- though she was lauded at the time as a successful working-class woman leading an important company. She was gullible. She was stupid. These are not crimes.
Any public inquiry will conclude that no crimes were committed by the Post Office and its management. Gross incompetence is not a crime.
I am puzzled as to why the buckets of shit are not being poured over the software compare (Fujitsu) that supplied the crappy software that made the errors.
They are more to blame that the wretched Vennells. They supplied the product that caused the problems, and they repeatedly assured Vennells and the Post Office that there was no problem.
Read the emails Vennells sent- she was not asking for issues with the software to be highlighted but to hidden from her.
Vennells has (properly) resigned from her Directorships -- IMO she should have done so much earlier.
She is incompetent and a poor manager. She has a very serious miscarriage of justice on her conscience.
But, she has a degree in Russian and French. She (probably) has zero understanding of software.
The Post Office was repeatedly told by Fujitsu that there was no problem with the software.
I suspect Vennells lacked the skillset, the competence and the curiosity to get to the bottom of the problem. She has poor leadership skills, and she should certainly have her CBE taken away from her.
But, at the heart of this, it is Fujitsu who made the catastrophic mistake, and denied making it. They are software experts, and they had the expertise to test their software. They should be held responsible.
My question is: why are Fujitsu not paying compensation? Why is it the UK taxpayer, through the Government?
I don't like Vennells & I am not defending her. But, surely Fujitsu should be pursued -- they seem to me to be more blameworthy.
I quite agree. The judges have referred the evidence of some of the Fujitsu employees for further investigation. But the Post Office presumably had a Head of IT. Was he/she another ignoramus who knew nothing about IT and did not have the wit to ask some pretty obvious and basic questions?
I am not an IT expert but pretty much all my cases have involved some serious interrogation of IT systems. You need the ability to ask basic and obvious questions and if you get waffle you don't understand you keep on asking until you do understand. If you cannot manage this much you are not, IMO, fit for anything much more than putting the bins out for collection.
There is nothing in this life so complicated that someone who understands it cannot explain it simply. And if they can't, one of two things is happening: either they don't understand it themselves or they are trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. Any halfway competent manager - let alone a CEO - should be able to understand IT systems sufficiently, especially when this amount of money is being spent and when problems start appearing. And they should be getting good people working for them with the technical understanding they don't have.
We are far too willing to let people off the hook. These people are being paid good salaries to do their job properly not to behave like monkeys seeing, hearing, saying nothing.
As far as I am concerned Vennells should be in jail. She was the Chief Executive at the time when the Post Office ordered Second Sight to abandon their investigations and destroy any remaining paperwork one day before they were due to issue a damning report into the Horizon scandal. She clearly knew that the PO was at fault and that people were having their lives ruined because of a failure by the Post Office and yet she chose to suppress those findings and allow people to remain in jail or eventually commit suicide rather than admit the Post Office got it wrong.
She deserves no sympathy or understanding for this. She deserve to be prosecuted.
On what charge.
I agree with your core sentiment, she should be punished. She won’t be. She, like all the others who bear some responsibility, will get on with their lives.
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
No, I don't think so.
Being coldly logical about it I think a Royal Yacht will easily deliver a positive rate of return to the Exchequer.
If the government is serious about cutting crime it should be spending that money on the criminal justice system so victims and defendants don't have to wait 3 or 4 or more years before a case comes to court. Or in training the police and prosecutors in how to comply with the disclosure rules in criminal trials so that we don't get miscarriages like the Post Office case or the collapse of the Serco fraud trial or the many other criminal cases which have collapsed because of this failure. That would provide a much better rate of return and actually do something to deal with crime which is meant to be one of this government's priorities.
But no opportunities for champagne quaffing so obviously nothing will be done.
To be fair to the police, the Post Office were their own prosecutors. Unless I've seriously misread Private Eye!
Correct. These were private prosecutions which continued long after concerns about Horizon were known at every level in the organisation. Fraud prosecutions went from a handful a year to the large relative numbers seen with the scandal.
They were also at a very much greater level than in pre-Horizon days, which surely must have led to head-scratching among management. Why are we employing so many crooks now, when we apparently didn't in the past?
The answer is: "We have this incredible piece of new software from Fujitsu that is enabling us to detect fraud that previously went unnoticed".
I agree, but refer you to my third and fourth questions. What there any tightening up of the recruitment process? And if not, why not? Some of those involved had been with the PO for years, some recruited quite recently.
So apparently trade negotiators will just capitulate to anything the U.K. wants because they’re fed a Michelin starred meal on HMS Prince Philip ! Another load of jingoistic flag waving nonsense from this cesspit of a government .
No - it's an utter waste of money. A vanity project for a vainglorious government.
No, I don't think so.
Being coldly logical about it I think a Royal Yacht will easily deliver a positive rate of return to the Exchequer.
If the government is serious about cutting crime it should be spending that money on the criminal justice system so victims and defendants don't have to wait 3 or 4 or more years before a case comes to court. Or in training the police and prosecutors in how to comply with the disclosure rules in criminal trials so that we don't get miscarriages like the Post Office case or the collapse of the Serco fraud trial or the many other criminal cases which have collapsed because of this failure. That would provide a much better rate of return and actually do something to deal with crime which is meant to be one of this government's priorities.
But no opportunities for champagne quaffing so obviously nothing will be done.
To be fair to the police, the Post Office were their own prosecutors. Unless I've seriously misread Private Eye!
Correct. These were private prosecutions which continued long after concerns about Horizon were known at every level in the organisation. Fraud prosecutions went from a handful a year to the large relative numbers seen with the scandal.
They were also at a very much greater level than in pre-Horizon days, which surely must have led to head-scratching among management. Why are we employing so many crooks now, when we apparently didn't in the past?
The answer is: "We have this incredible piece of new software from Fujitsu that is enabling us to detect fraud that previously went unnoticed".
And did no-one then ask: "Why was this fraud not picked up before?" "What the hell were our internal auditors doing?" and "If this is correct, do we need to restate our accounts for previous years?"
Or, even, does this fit with everything else we know? Because reliance on only one data point - even if it comes from a computer, in fact, especially if it comes from a computer - is a route to disaster, as any number of banks will be able to tell you.
"For a government struggling with the perception that lucrative opportunities are available if you know the right people — rules and merit be damned — not requiring an interrogation of Vennells and her senior colleagues under oath is, to put it lightly, not a great look.
Sub-postmasters and their families are not calling for an indiscriminate witch-hunt — that, after all, would make them no different from the faceless bureaucracy at the Post Office that pursued them so relentlessly without care for evidence or consequence. But “lessons learnt” without any repercussions for those who necessitated those lessons in the first place is not justice; it is absolution. We need a full, statutory inquiry, empowered by the state to hear all pertinent evidence and testimony."
We have a full inquiry into Grenfell, and I don't think there's much difference as far as 'lives ruined' are concerned. Even if a number of middle rank Post Office staff are convicted of perjury, that still doesn't absolve the people at the top who must have had questions.
But, did they perjure themselves? They were assured that the software was working. They believed the assurances. They lacked the competence to detect software errors.
They were gullible. They were stupid. But, these are not crimes.
Vennells was clearly over-promoted -- though she was lauded at the time as a successful working-class woman leading an important company. She was gullible. She was stupid. These are not crimes.
Any public inquiry will conclude that no crimes were committed by the Post Office and its management. Gross incompetence is not a crime.
I am puzzled as to why the buckets of shit are not being poured over the software compare (Fujitsu) that supplied the crappy software that made the errors.
They are more to blame that the wretched Vennells. They supplied the product that caused the problems, and they repeatedly assured Vennells and the Post Office that there was no problem.
Read the emails Vennells sent- she was not asking for issues with the software to be highlighted but to hidden from her.
Vennells has (properly) resigned from her Directorships -- IMO she should have done so much earlier.
She is incompetent and a poor manager. She has a very serious miscarriage of justice on her conscience.
But, she has a degree in Russian and French. She (probably) has zero understanding of software.
The Post Office was repeatedly told by Fujitsu that there was no problem with the software.
I suspect Vennells lacked the skillset, the competence and the curiosity to get to the bottom of the problem. She has poor leadership skills, and she should certainly have her CBE taken away from her.
But, at the heart of this, it is Fujitsu who made the catastrophic mistake, and denied making it. They are software experts, and they had the expertise to test their software. They should be held responsible.
My question is: why are Fujitsu not paying compensation? Why is it the UK taxpayer, through the Government?
I don't like Vennells & I am not defending her. But, surely Fujitsu should be pursued -- they seem to me to be more blameworthy.
I quite agree. The judges have referred the evidence of some of the Fujitsu employees for further investigation. But the Post Office presumably had a Head of IT. Was he/she another ignoramus who knew nothing about IT and did not have the wit to ask some pretty obvious and basic questions?
I am not an IT expert but pretty much all my cases have involved some serious interrogation of IT systems. You need the ability to ask basic and obvious questions and if you get waffle you don't understand you keep on asking until you do understand. If you cannot manage this much you are not, IMO, fit for anything much more than putting the bins out for collection.
There is nothing in this life so complicated that someone who understands it cannot explain it simply. And if they can't, one of two things is happening: either they don't understand it themselves or they are trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. Any halfway competent manager - let alone a CEO - should be able to understand IT systems sufficiently, especially when this amount of money is being spent and when problems start appearing. And they should be getting good people working for them with the technical understanding they don't have.
We are far too willing to let people off the hook. These people are being paid good salaries to do their job properly not to behave like monkeys seeing, hearing, saying nothing.
I quite agree. Vennells was grossly incompetent. As was the Head of IT at the Post Office. But. gross incompetence isn't actually a crime.
As I understand it, Fujitsu supplied a defective product and then covered it up. This may well be criminal behaviour.
At some point in this story, there was a cover-up. Someone knew the software was broken and did not act.
Comments
It is why Douglas Ross is emphasising the list vote so much.
And Liz Truss is top.
However No Deal would have cost them more suburban votes in Scotland and seats like Eastwood and Edinburgh Central than they would have gained from fishermen, the only seat they may have gained from the SNP from the fishing vote was Banffshire and Buchan Coast
It is a curious form of British misogyny, I tend to agree.
https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1388760669516935168
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/can-boris-johnson-afford-to-be-prime-minister-m2brczgq9
Now, it's true that the most likely reason MPs would dump the PM is a sense that victory in 2024 is in doubt, but even that transmission mechanism is a bit wonky.
But apart from his backbenchers, the only restraint on the PM is is own sense of shame... which seems to have gone missing a long time ago.
(To be clear, This Is A Bad Thing.)
BTW I wonder what effect having the students disrupted by Covid will have on the vote - could affect LDs in Edinburgh and Fife/St Andrews maybe?
The Tories were up 9.7% and Labour were down 12.1% and the LDs were down 1.4% so the Tories won even with the SNP up 1.8%
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1329576355068080130?s=20
Labour going to make real progress into 2024, in Scotland, IMHO.
Indeed, as the thread continued I became more certain that he is will be out of office sometime this year
I don’t know why he doesn’t do a deal now for his memoirs. Is it illegal? It would certainly look a lot better than asking for donors to pay his childcare
As we discussed last night he will get millions. Problem solved. Unless it’s not allowed
They were gullible. They were stupid. But, these are not crimes.
Vennells was clearly over-promoted -- though she was lauded at the time as a successful working-class woman leading an important company. She was gullible. She was stupid. These are not crimes.
Any public inquiry will conclude that no crimes were committed by the Post Office and its management. Gross incompetence is not a crime.
I am puzzled as to why the buckets of shit are not being poured over the software compare (Fujitsu) that supplied the crappy software that made the errors.
They are more to blame that the wretched Vennells. They supplied the product that caused the problems, and they repeatedly assured Vennells and the Post Office that there was no problem.
The SNP will also lose seats on the list to the Greens and at the constituency level I think the SNP will lose Moray to the Tories and Caithness, Sutherland and Ross to the LDs and Edinburgh Central will go Labour, not SNP as well
Being coldly logical about it I think a Royal Yacht will easily deliver a positive rate of return to the Exchequer.
As for Fujitsu - anyone decent in IT wouldn't go near them - why do you think they have so much Government work, the private sector offloaded / offshored it 15 years ago to Wipro and TCS
Trebles all round!’
And while the present rumours look bad for him, remember what Sturgeon has survived. British politics is quite forgiving
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44208859
New Yorker headline story.
But re the Post Office one, it's not just the numbers of lives ruined, it's also the fact that at every level of the organisation and in a number of other organisations, everything that could go wrong did go wrong.
- The commissioning of the IT system by the Post Office.
- The development and delivery of the IT system by Fujitsu.
- The failure to test it properly and deal with its failings: Fujitsu and the Post Office.
- The auditors who failed to spot the alleged fraud or understand the issues with the Horizon system.
- The cover-up of the problems: the Post Office and Fujitsu again.
- The investigations by the Post Office: internal Post Office investigators.
- The prosecutions by the Post Office: the legal team.
- The refusals to deal with the complaints and concerns: senior managers at the Post Office and Ministers.
And these were failings at every level of these organisations: from IT people to investigators, lawyers, middle and senior managers all the way up to the Chief Executive. Every single group of these professionals behaved appallingly and failed to do their job. This was not one mistake which was not picked up. This was mistakes and worse throughout the organisations at every level, over a number of years and involving different groups of professionals and experts, all of whom were simply not fit for purpose. It's hard to overstate how bad this is.
About the only group who come out well of this are the journalists who followed up this story - Nick Wallis, the lawyers who helped the sun-postmasters, Second Sight who spotted the problems but were dismissed for their pains and some of the MPs who eventually helped the sub-postmasters.
Everyone else involved in this affair should hang their head in shame - if that concept has any meaning anymore in our society. I do not share @justin124's views on illegitimate births or insulting babies but feeling shame at bad behaviour is necessary if we are to have a well-ordered society. I feel the same about those involved in Grenfell - all those people treating the manufacture and use of combustible materials in people's homes as some sort of tiresome let's get around the rules game should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
None of us like to do that, and I suspect Boris likes that idea less than average. And as a fluent liar, he can probably lie to himself, because that's easy to do.
Today's Thought for the Day is brought to you by the Reverend J C Flannel.
She is incompetent and a poor manager. She has a very serious miscarriage of justice on her conscience.
But, she has a degree in Russian and French. She (probably) has zero understanding of software.
The Post Office was repeatedly told by Fujitsu that there was no problem with the software.
I suspect Vennells lacked the skillset, the competence and the curiosity to get to the bottom of the problem. She has poor leadership skills, and she should certainly have her CBE taken away from her.
But, at the heart of this, it is Fujitsu who made the catastrophic mistake, and denied making it. They are software experts, and they had the expertise to test their software. They should be held responsible.
My question is: why are Fujitsu not paying compensation? Why is it the UK taxpayer, through the Government?
I don't like Vennells & I am not defending her. But, surely Fujitsu should be pursued -- they seem to me to be more blameworthy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h5mErP1E6A
HMY Britannia was a unique draft in the RN. Once posted to it rates and officers could stay on it as long as they wanted until retirement. It became a bit of a dumping ground for alcoholics and other useless miscreants. The ship did kill quite a few of them (including one of its COs) with asbestos so at least that saved on pension costs.
But no opportunities for champagne quaffing so obviously nothing will be done.
I think Carrie may soon come to be the nation's favourite hate figure, as Cherie was.
Decisions should come through argument and debate and the ability to change minds. It is a flaw in our parliamentary set up that although this does happen its design is not ideal for it to flourish.
I am not an IT expert but pretty much all my cases have involved some serious interrogation of IT systems. You need the ability to ask basic and obvious questions and if you get waffle you don't understand you keep on asking until you do understand. If you cannot manage this much you are not, IMO, fit for anything much more than putting the bins out for collection.
There is nothing in this life so complicated that someone who understands it cannot explain it simply. And if they can't, one of two things is happening: either they don't understand it themselves or they are trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. Any halfway competent manager - let alone a CEO - should be able to understand IT systems sufficiently, especially when this amount of money is being spent and when problems start appearing. And they should be getting good people working for them with the technical understanding they don't have.
We are far too willing to let people off the hook. These people are being paid good salaries to do their job properly not to behave like monkeys seeing, hearing, saying nothing.
Ben Houchen is nailed on to win in any case, I think. Even I'd probably vote for him.
For a start, the PM is the ultimate arbiter of the Ministerial Code.
Secondly, there is a substantial block of opinion- especially amongst older/Conservative/Leave voters- that are happy to wave anything through, because Boris. And that's the base Conservative MPs will be looking to.
Obviously, he ought to go in those circumstances. But the mechanisms to make him go are pretty easy for him to ignore, unless the police get involved.
I thought the wallpaper issue was a sideshow and Labour were wasting their time, but yesterday's revelations are a serious allegation relating to the proberty of the Prime Minister.
Angela Rayner's point of funding Wilfred's nannying costs whilst voting against free school meals hits the political target, even if it is a cheap shot.
And an even cheaper shot could be on its way in the form of Cummings on May 26th.
Crack open the popcorn!
Carrie is paid 100 k to go some place and give a speech.
Journalist Sherelle Jacobs, who I follow on Twitter, was up in Hartlepool and found no enthusiasm for labour at all but it was not, or didn’t have the feel, of 2019. She called the landslide in the red wall well before the 2019 election but thinks this is different. I respect her commentary.
If labour do well Thursday it should be no comfort to,them as it will all be due to Tory implosion and little to do with their offer. Starmer and Rayner will likely never come to Hartlepool again after the end of next week and National labour care little for the inhabitants only their votes. Labour have learnt nothing from the fall of the red wall and if it goes back to them due to Johnson’s numerous flaws as a politician then they have no reason to do anything for the region.
It's politically impossible because the Queen would not live to see the fucking thing built so you'd be asking the taxpayer to fund a gin palace for Gobshite and Snaggletooth to the tune of several hundred million quid.
I don't much about yachts but I am partially responsible for the permanent ban of the Fleet Air Arm from the Royal Bombay Yacht Club.
Generalists rule the roost with the perception that you might have a read medieval French history but its the institution that matters and not the skillset.
It seems to be at the compelling level of "Arlene Foster was having an affair with her protection officer."
I still think it highly unlikely aliens are visiting us, but there’s enough credible people wondering out loud, to make me ponder
Why are we employing so many crooks now, when we apparently didn't in the past?
Or, how much was siphoned off in the past, if so much is being siphoned off now?
So, was there any tightening up of the recruitment process for sub-postmasters? If not, why not?
Too close to call in Hartlepool. Voters less concerned with Tory sleaze than Labour’s track record of corrupt complacency in its old stronghold. But historic dislike of Tories persists. Locals also doubt Tory biz credentials.
Tories don’t have Hartlepool in bag. Gold wallpaper has no cut through. But neither does vaccine “bounce”. Anti-Labour sentiment is palpable. But atmosphere here feels different to 2019 when I met endless Red Wall Tory switchers. In Hartlepool haven’t met even one. Seems v tight
https://twitter.com/Sherelle_E_J?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author
If the Conservatives had won Hartlepool in 2019 it would only have been by a narrow majority.
So 'too close to call' currently would suggest little change from then.
No Labour to Conservative switchers isn't unexpected either - all those moving from Labour would have done so in 2019 either to BXP or Conservative.
So the key points continue to be what happens to the 2019 BXP voters and which party is able to motivate its 2019 voters to go and vote again.
Dare I say it but Carrie is going to get a Meghan Markle image ?
And IIRC MM does not poll well in this country.
Hartlepool May be remote but it isn’t humberside or Norfolk remoteness. It is close to the A19 and A1. There is no reason it cannot benefit from the industry that is looking to come to the region.
I agree on BXP voters. People,automatically assume they are all Tories or will go to the Tories but many of them came from labour in places like this. These are voters that labour now desperately want to woo but were labelled thick, uneducated, voting against their own interests and racist by many labour supporters and remain supporters over brexit.
If I lived there I’d vote Tory to send a message.
She deserves no sympathy or understanding for this. She deserve to be prosecuted.
I agree with your core sentiment, she should be punished. She won’t be. She, like all the others who bear some responsibility, will get on with their lives.
And if not, why not?
Some of those involved had been with the PO for years, some recruited quite recently.
Or, even, does this fit with everything else we know? Because reliance on only one data point - even if it comes from a computer, in fact, especially if it comes from a computer - is a route to disaster, as any number of banks will be able to tell you.
If that old saying is true, this is a big test for Owen
@OwenJones
‘just had my phone snatched off me by a guy on a bike, how's your evening going
This is the third time it's happened, always in Islington’
As I understand it, Fujitsu supplied a defective product and then covered it up. This may well be criminal behaviour.
At some point in this story, there was a cover-up. Someone knew the software was broken and did not act.