Setting the scene for next Thursday’s local elections – politicalbetting.com
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Think that's correct, that was the tenor of the Seattle Times article.TimT said:
Most risks of the type that cause people problems are not actually amenable to quantitive approaches. Sure, probabilities have to be understood by those driving public health policies and decision-making, but they have very little impact on how individuals act - and not for issues of ignorance, but more issues of biology and social psychology.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
My main argument to my vac-hesitant friend, was that the odds of a bad outcome from vaccination are MUCH MUCH less than odds of getting COVID without a jab.Andy_JS said:The main lesson I take from the last 15 months is that risk and probability need to be taught in schools, because most people don't seem to have a clue about either of them.
And that WITH vaccination the odds of getting it are VERY low, and ditto with the odds of getting seriously sick or becoming contagious IF you do come down with the crud anyway.
But at least I gave my friend something to think about. Also mentioned fact that yours truly has been vacced with zero negative side affects, but some positive ones - such as feeling quite comfortable going out to restaurants again.0 -
Please describe the change in law the UK government would need to implement to stop paying uk state pensions to scots without also stopping paying the UK state pension to other foreign nationals.MaxPB said:
No? You can lie to yourself about what independence entails if you want. Maybe it helps you sleep at night. The facts are that the UK government isn't going to be paying out for Scotland once it becomes independent. Pensions are part of that responsibility of being independent. If you don't like it maybe you've wasted the last 20 years of your life campaigning for it.Alistair said:
Cool, so we've established the UK government would still pay state pensions to Scottish people then as directed by the law.MaxPB said:
In Scotland, yes. You wouldn't be in the UK any more. It's the whole point of independence.Alistair said:
So upon Scottish independence all British laws are rendered void?MaxPB said:
Under what jurisdiction? UK law will no longer apply.Alistair said:
The one's covering state pension eligibility? Based on how many years of qualifying NICs you have made?MaxPB said:
Law? Which law? I mean this is really basic. Scotland would be outside of the UK for jurisdictional purposes. There's simply no way that and independent Scotland could count on the UK treasury for anything at all.Alistair said:
The British state currently, right this second, pays non-uk citizens who are not resident in the UK a British state pension.Philip_Thompson said:
Except they're not dumping you, if you vote for independence then you're voting to dump them. Since pensions are PAYG, in the future Scottish taxes and Scottish pensions would be the responsibility of the Scottish state.malcolmg said:
The clown just talks through his posterior. They are so ignorant due to their bigotry that they cannot even rationalise that if you have paid someone for a pension they cannot just dump you, pathetic.Alistair said:
The UK government guarantees to pay a state pension to anyone, UK citizen or not, that has made sufficient qualifying contributions.felix said:
There are no such 'debts' owed by England other than to english people. The OAP doesn't work that way. Current Scots would pay Scottish pensions , etcmalcolmg said:
More garbage, Scotland will pay its own pensions like normal countries, England will pay the debts it owes for the money people paid into their pension scam scheme or perhaps welch on their commitments.Razedabode said:
Don’t forget as well, rUK will be paying Scottish pensions in the event of indyeek said:
That is actually my expected result - the issue needs to be laid to bed and the only way to do that is for the Scottish to see how much they are subsidised by the rest of the UK.Philip_Thompson said:
Although I support Scottish independence, I think the funniest result "for the bantz" would be SNP minority, majority with Greens, second referendum occurs, second referendum goes No.RochdalePioneers said:https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19270556.john-curtice-polls-show-snp-independence-support-slipping/
Professor JohnCurtice (for it is He) says that whilst SNP support is slipping, the Greens are romping along, so a majority of MSPs will support independence. Strap yourselves in - when HYUFD explodes as a result of Boris doing what he has endlessly said he won't do, it will be messy.
Which I know is something that MalcolmG is going to argue isn't the case but the reality is the oil has gone and Scotland has little else...
Otherwise are you expecting to still be paying taxes to Westminster in the future?
That's because the law says that anyone who has qualified for a state pension gets a state pension.
These are people who are currently no contributing a single penny of tax to the UK exchequer.
Now, non-residents do not get the annual _increases_ to the state pension - they get the pension at the level it was first awarded to them but that is the setup.
I mean this is really basic.
Literally anyone in the world who has made sufficient NICs gets a UK state pen sion if they want one.
This is an exciting frontier of lawlessness we approach.
Bonza.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQkpes3dgzgSeaShantyIrish2 said:
My personal favorite De Niro performance is in "Analyze This"Stocky said:
Great film - De Niro at his best surely?kinabalu said:
Ah sorry. I meant De Niro in Taxi Driver. The iconic "Travis Bickle" character.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Yes to the first bit. As to your question, please translate?kinabalu said:
That sounds like an interesting but stressful job. Did it send you a bit "Bickle"?SeaShantyIrish2 said:
"Golf, you have to have your own car."kinabalu said:
Yes, I'll probably get another (and final) ICE. Only true compelling reason I need a car is golf. Otherwise I could just do hire and uber and train/bus. Golf, you have to have your own car.Anabobazina said:
New clean diesels are Ulez exempt – you don't need to buy a hybrid should you prefer an ICE.kinabalu said:
What do you make of hybrids?Dura_Ace said:
X7 is the largest BMW SUV. This discussion is like watching me try to opine on wine or coffee.TOPPING said:
Seconded on a BMW X series (5 is the biggest, 3 is a smaller 5 and 1 is the SUV of the Touring). Or touring if you prefer closer to the ground and traditional rear wheel drive.Gardenwalker said:
I am not a car person; largely I regard them as frustrating opex rather than sensible capex.Jonathan said:
budget?Gardenwalker said:Perhaps PB motorists can give me advice.
The last car I owned was a 1967 Triumph Herald convertible. That was back in Auckland, when I was a student.
Fast forward twenty odd years.
I live in London Zone 2, with a driveway. I have two small kids. I would like a car for the wife to commute in, and for country trips on the weekend.
I am not suffering a mid-life crisis and do not need a Ferrari. But I also hate cheap plasticky cars.
What kind of car should I get?
And, do I buy or lease?
So, I am reasonable well off I suppose, but begrudge the cost I am likely to need to spend.
Does that help?
But we are all skating on thin ice here once Dura comes on and spells out exactly what it is you actually do need.
I'm asking for a mate who because of the ULEZ expansion will have to kiss goodbye to his beloved old Merc.
Really? Way back when, as a cab driver in Baton Rouge, used to take Japanese sailors from their merchant ships back & forth to local (municipal) golf courses.
Also used to transport Norwegian sailors to & fro. NOT to golf courses, but in their case to a whorehouse just outside of town!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp_0ChLUn3s
I actually quite like some of his later career 'switch-to-light-comedy' stuff (eg Meet The Parents) but the above - from "Taxi" - does take some beating.0 -
Philip, your attempts at insults are very funny. I am not sure how an illiterate fool would be able to write on here to either mock you (which let's face it is not that difficult), or to respond to your sixth-formesque debate positions.Philip_Thompson said:
Only because you're an illiterate fool who can't tell the difference.Nigel_Foremain said:
Hehe. I think if the vaccine had been rolled out under a Labour government, rather than one led (and I use that word loosely) by his hero from Eton, Philip would have been a fully paid up Q-Anon antivaxer.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Beginning tomorrow we will be monitoring your post to see IF there are any signs of adverse reaction to the jab.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed, I wasn't expecting to get my invite for a few more weeks.MaxPB said:
Not long now, and good to see there's available slots for first doses without any issues or waiting for a week.Philip_Thompson said:Just got my Covid Vaccine invitation via text! 💉😁
Will be going tomorrow morning.
38 years old, so into the thirties now.
The link came with an address I could get the jab at, and an option to choose different times at different dates. I chose the first available slot at 9:10am tomorrow morning. No point dilly dallying.
My prognostication: the vac may make your posts even nuttier than per usual!
[EDIT] Just kidding! (I think!!)
That you think that, despite my repeated unequivocal attacks on Trumpism, QAnon and anything like that, which others have said to you time and again too, just shows that you're an ignorant zealot yourself.
You have never been able to see or show a single thing Trumpist about me. My philosophy isn't hidden, I want to see a liberal, small, Thatcherite English state. I would welcome anyone who wants to migrate to England to do so, so long as they can support themselves and pay taxes I'd be very happy to see immigration go up as long as they have no claim on benefits.
What about that is Q?
OK, so I will explain how I see strong parallels between you and Trump supporters. You call yourself a "libertarian" even though you are clearly confused over what one is; you describe yourself as a nationalist and say there is nothing wrong with populism. You are unable to cover your dislike of foreigners, particularly Europeans, and your clearly deranged obsession/hatred with/of the EU is very similar with Trumpists obsession with "World Government" through the UN. Add to that the fact that you spend a very unhealthy amount of time on here talking garbage on subjects you clearly have no experience of, I would not be at all surprised if you didn't believe in lizard people and various other conspiracy theories beloved by people who spend too much time online and hold to your extremist right wing views. You are simply an English version of malcolmg; not quite as incoherent or as angry, but certainly getting there. I rest my case.0 -
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other country in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?0 -
That is the 64 thousand Scottish Pound question. Will someone born in Scotland and living in Scotland be allowed to choose between Scottish and rUK citizenship? I rather think not. It will be messy and arbitrary. I doubt if everyone is going to get a choice. I was born in Scotland but live in England. If UK is destroyed the ramifications are going to be profound.HarryFreeman said:
Why wouldn't every person left in Scotland (and there would be a big exodus) not in that consideration then choose to have a rUk passport as it would assure you a pension.NorthofStoke said:I'd be pretty certain that if Scotland becomes independent that every UK citizen will become either an rUK or a Scottish citizen. Most will be simply allocated the new citizenship but some may well have a choice (e.g. born in England living in Scotland and vice versa). The relevant state will pay pensions of citizens independent of residence. If you are English in Scotland you may lose the right to vote (and vice versa) unless there is some agreement on this. Dual citizenship will no doubt be something that can be applied for but that doesn't confer or change pension rights as far as I know.
Would anyone give up their assured pension to have a vote in an Indy Scotland ?1 -
I seriously doubt it would get to that pass. But presumably a simple amendment to the Act is not beyond the imagination of the powers in Westminster, one that would temporarily suspend payment of pensions to newly independent Scottish citizens resident in Scotland until conclusion of a comprehensive rUK-iS divorce agreement. That would focus minds.Alistair said:
Of course in reality there would be a negotiated settlement between rUK and Sco but there seems a great mant people on this board who don't understand how thr uk state pension works and don't realise that "being foreign" isn't a disqualifying criteria for receiving a UK state pension.TimT said:
As I said earlier, this is an obligation jointly assumed by all current UK citizens. The provenance going forward of jointly assumed obligations will no doubt be part of the complex divorce negotiations. It is naive to assume that all such jointly assumed obligations will be left entirely to rUK.Alistair said:
No, he's a Nigerian. Who is eligible for and receives a UK state pension due to his years of qualifying NIC payments. He is neither a Scottish nor British citizen.felix said:
That would depend entirely on his status if he became a Scottish citizen it would be Scotland , etc, etcAlistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
Who pays his UK state pension?
And say things had went nuclear and we were looking at a hard divorce I do t think anyone on this board has been able to suggest how the law would be changed to stop Scottish pensioners receibging the UK state pensions without also stopping other foreign nationals receivong their obligate doe sion payments.1 -
If he is an rUK citizen living in Scotland then he'll get it paid. If he is Scottish citizen then no.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?0 -
In this hypothetical scenario, has Scotland gone for a UDI without UK legislation that would determine how financial liabilities are divided?Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?1 -
It is indeed. I applaud the Swedes for trying the other experiment, but by now it is clear it was the wrong approach.Gallowgate said:The stark difference between Norway and Finland, and Sweden is profound.
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"If citizen is dual national Scotland/UK and was resident in Scotland at the time of independence they can no longer receive the state pension of the UK". I mean I do logic based querying all day, it's really not difficult.Alistair said:
Please describe the change in law the UK government would need to implement to stop paying uk state pensions to scots without also stopping paying the UK state pension to other foreign nationals.MaxPB said:
No? You can lie to yourself about what independence entails if you want. Maybe it helps you sleep at night. The facts are that the UK government isn't going to be paying out for Scotland once it becomes independent. Pensions are part of that responsibility of being independent. If you don't like it maybe you've wasted the last 20 years of your life campaigning for it.Alistair said:
Cool, so we've established the UK government would still pay state pensions to Scottish people then as directed by the law.MaxPB said:
In Scotland, yes. You wouldn't be in the UK any more. It's the whole point of independence.Alistair said:
So upon Scottish independence all British laws are rendered void?MaxPB said:
Under what jurisdiction? UK law will no longer apply.Alistair said:
The one's covering state pension eligibility? Based on how many years of qualifying NICs you have made?MaxPB said:
Law? Which law? I mean this is really basic. Scotland would be outside of the UK for jurisdictional purposes. There's simply no way that and independent Scotland could count on the UK treasury for anything at all.Alistair said:
The British state currently, right this second, pays non-uk citizens who are not resident in the UK a British state pension.Philip_Thompson said:
Except they're not dumping you, if you vote for independence then you're voting to dump them. Since pensions are PAYG, in the future Scottish taxes and Scottish pensions would be the responsibility of the Scottish state.malcolmg said:
The clown just talks through his posterior. They are so ignorant due to their bigotry that they cannot even rationalise that if you have paid someone for a pension they cannot just dump you, pathetic.Alistair said:
The UK government guarantees to pay a state pension to anyone, UK citizen or not, that has made sufficient qualifying contributions.felix said:
There are no such 'debts' owed by England other than to english people. The OAP doesn't work that way. Current Scots would pay Scottish pensions , etcmalcolmg said:
More garbage, Scotland will pay its own pensions like normal countries, England will pay the debts it owes for the money people paid into their pension scam scheme or perhaps welch on their commitments.Razedabode said:
Don’t forget as well, rUK will be paying Scottish pensions in the event of indyeek said:
That is actually my expected result - the issue needs to be laid to bed and the only way to do that is for the Scottish to see how much they are subsidised by the rest of the UK.Philip_Thompson said:
Although I support Scottish independence, I think the funniest result "for the bantz" would be SNP minority, majority with Greens, second referendum occurs, second referendum goes No.RochdalePioneers said:https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19270556.john-curtice-polls-show-snp-independence-support-slipping/
Professor JohnCurtice (for it is He) says that whilst SNP support is slipping, the Greens are romping along, so a majority of MSPs will support independence. Strap yourselves in - when HYUFD explodes as a result of Boris doing what he has endlessly said he won't do, it will be messy.
Which I know is something that MalcolmG is going to argue isn't the case but the reality is the oil has gone and Scotland has little else...
Otherwise are you expecting to still be paying taxes to Westminster in the future?
That's because the law says that anyone who has qualified for a state pension gets a state pension.
These are people who are currently no contributing a single penny of tax to the UK exchequer.
Now, non-residents do not get the annual _increases_ to the state pension - they get the pension at the level it was first awarded to them but that is the setup.
I mean this is really basic.
Literally anyone in the world who has made sufficient NICs gets a UK state pen sion if they want one.
This is an exciting frontier of lawlessness we approach.
Bonza.
Again, you're voting for independence, what do you expect to happen? That the UK will continue to find Scotland forever and a day? Do you not realise what a vote loser that would be in England, Wales and NI for whichever party proposed that idea? Politically it would be impossible for either party to keep paying for Scotland post independence, therefore a solution such as the above will be implemented and anyone living in Scotland will be paid their pension in McPounds by Holyrood. It's not like they're not going to get a pension, it will just be funded by NI contributions in Scotland and paid for by the government of Scotland.4 -
Preach sistah.
https://twitter.com/LiamGaughan98/status/1388114992868777985?s=20
Pretty sure it'll be a cold day in hell when someone from Dagenham with the surname Solomon joins the RF.0 -
It'd have to be the English Gov't paying the pension. By the same token someone who works in say Edinburgh and then moves to say Newcastle would be Scotland's responsibility.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
The interesting case is @RochdalePioneers of this parish. If he works the first 23 years of his working life in England and then a further 19 in Scotland who is responsible for his pension ?0 -
No I'm saying if Scotland walks away without agreeing to take on its fair share of net liabilities the RUK will have to prioritise its money, the money we would pay for Scottish pensions will be likely used to pay the liabilities as in 2014 I expect the UK government to say it will honour all UK debt payments if an independent Scotland will not.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
Those people in Scotland who aren't getting their pensions will have to take it up with the Scottish government.
An independent Scotland doesn't get to pick and choose which liabilities the UK pays if you won't honour your side of the liabilities as well.2 -
Stop paying anyone paid from the Motherwell or Dundee Centres. Tell them to speak to the Scottish Government.Alistair said:
Of course in reality there would be a negotiated settlement between rUK and Sco but there seems a great mant people on this board who don't understand how thr uk state pension works and don't realise that "being foreign" isn't a disqualifying criteria for receiving a UK state pension.TimT said:
As I said earlier, this is an obligation jointly assumed by all current UK citizens. The provenance going forward of jointly assumed obligations will no doubt be part of the complex divorce negotiations. It is naive to assume that all such jointly assumed obligations will be left entirely to rUK.Alistair said:
No, he's a Nigerian. Who is eligible for and receives a UK state pension due to his years of qualifying NIC payments. He is neither a Scottish nor British citizen.felix said:
That would depend entirely on his status if he became a Scottish citizen it would be Scotland , etc, etcAlistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
Who pays his UK state pension?
And say things had went nuclear and we were looking at a hard divorce I do t think anyone on this board has been able to suggest how the law would be changed to stop Scottish pensioners receibging the UK state pensions without also stopping other foreign nationals receivong their obligate doe sion payments.
Seems simple enough to me.1 -
Anywhere else in the world he moved to he wouldn't have been accruing a state pension. The pension system in this country is a national pension scheme, ie it's as much a Scottish pension as it is an English one or a Welsh one. Upon independence there will still be a joint responsibility between all four nations for the pensions accrued before independence. how that works out would be negotiated in the treaty and become law in all four nations upon ratification. The difference would start for people after independence and that would be the same situation as any other country.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?2 -
The other thing is what happens if the rates of pension significantly diverge between RUK and an independent Scotland over the next few years.Pulpstar said:
It'd have to be the English Gov't paying the pension. By the same token someone who works in say Edinburgh and then moves to say Newcastle would be Scotland's responsibility.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
The interesting case is @RochdalePioneers of this parish. If he works the first 23 years of his working life in England and then a further 19 in Scotland who is responsible for his pension ?1 -
Public sector pensions as well, which will be a big one. The UK government will pass that liability on to the Scottish government for sure, just as the UK took the liability of UK citizens working for the EU.Philip_Thompson said:
Stop paying anyone paid from the Motherwell or Dundee Centres. Tell them to speak to the Scottish Government.Alistair said:
Of course in reality there would be a negotiated settlement between rUK and Sco but there seems a great mant people on this board who don't understand how thr uk state pension works and don't realise that "being foreign" isn't a disqualifying criteria for receiving a UK state pension.TimT said:
As I said earlier, this is an obligation jointly assumed by all current UK citizens. The provenance going forward of jointly assumed obligations will no doubt be part of the complex divorce negotiations. It is naive to assume that all such jointly assumed obligations will be left entirely to rUK.Alistair said:
No, he's a Nigerian. Who is eligible for and receives a UK state pension due to his years of qualifying NIC payments. He is neither a Scottish nor British citizen.felix said:
That would depend entirely on his status if he became a Scottish citizen it would be Scotland , etc, etcAlistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
Who pays his UK state pension?
And say things had went nuclear and we were looking at a hard divorce I do t think anyone on this board has been able to suggest how the law would be changed to stop Scottish pensioners receibging the UK state pensions without also stopping other foreign nationals receivong their obligate doe sion payments.
Seems simple enough to me.
What the Nats don't see is that there's no votes in England, Wales and Northern Ireland for giving Scotland anything post independence. I mean they voted for independence so why should we? Just as the EU kept saying brexit means brexit (which I pointed out was fair at the time) indy means indy. There's no scenario where the UK treasury keeps these liabilities and pays pensions, grants or anything else post independence.3 -
Yes, this is correct !spudgfsh said:
Anywhere else in the world he moved to he wouldn't have been accruing a state pension. The pension system in this country is a national pension scheme, ie it's as much a Scottish pension as it is an English one or a Welsh one. Upon independence there will still be a joint responsibility between all four nations for the pensions accrued before independence. how that works out would be negotiated in the treaty and become law in all four nations upon ratification. The difference would start for people after independence and that would be the same situation as any other country.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
Trying to individually split everyone's source of NI contributions (And thus pension payment) would turn into a huge paperwork nightmare for both the rUK and Scottish Gov'ts. Scotland would have to take on a broad agreed share of the continual former UK payments.
Edit: Key word "former"0 -
Yes I corrected later. One would expect as part of the negotiation that all those resident in either nation would be paid from that nation's pot. It is the only equitable solution. Just possible that for such examples it might be done pro rata which each nation paying a proportinate share. It clearly would not be the sole responsibility of the RUK to cover a commitment for which both nations share a level of responsibility.Alistair said:
No, he's a Nigerian. Who is eligible for and receives a UK state pension due to his years of qualifying NIC payments. He is neither a Scottish nor British citizen.felix said:
That would depend entirely on his status if he became a Scottish citizen it would be Scotland , etc, etcAlistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
Who pays his UK state pension?0 -
Yes proportional to the number of surviving retirees in Scotland from pre-independence in any given year and payable in sterling, not whatever devalued currency of choice. So they'd better get on with raising foreign currency.Pulpstar said:
Yes, this is correct !spudgfsh said:
Anywhere else in the world he moved to he wouldn't have been accruing a state pension. The pension system in this country is a national pension scheme, ie it's as much a Scottish pension as it is an English one or a Welsh one. Upon independence there will still be a joint responsibility between all four nations for the pensions accrued before independence. how that works out would be negotiated in the treaty and become law in all four nations upon ratification. The difference would start for people after independence and that would be the same situation as any other country.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
Trying to individually split everyone's source of NI contributions (And thus pension payment) would turn into a huge paperwork nightmare for both the rUK and Scottish Gov'ts. Scotland would have to take on a broad agreed share of the continual UK payments.0 -
Is there a form for applying for those blowjobs currently?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
0 -
Actor Noel Clarke says he's deeply sorry for some of his actions and will seek professional help, but denies sexual misconduct
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-569486440 -
It really wouldn't.Alistair said:
Cool, so we've established the UK government would still pay state pensions to Scottish people then as directed by the law.MaxPB said:
In Scotland, yes. You wouldn't be in the UK any more. It's the whole point of independence.Alistair said:
So upon Scottish independence all British laws are rendered void?MaxPB said:
Under what jurisdiction? UK law will no longer apply.Alistair said:
The one's covering state pension eligibility? Based on how many years of qualifying NICs you have made?MaxPB said:
Law? Which law? I mean this is really basic. Scotland would be outside of the UK for jurisdictional purposes. There's simply no way that and independent Scotland could count on the UK treasury for anything at all.Alistair said:
The British state currently, right this second, pays non-uk citizens who are not resident in the UK a British state pension.Philip_Thompson said:
Except they're not dumping you, if you vote for independence then you're voting to dump them. Since pensions are PAYG, in the future Scottish taxes and Scottish pensions would be the responsibility of the Scottish state.malcolmg said:
The clown just talks through his posterior. They are so ignorant due to their bigotry that they cannot even rationalise that if you have paid someone for a pension they cannot just dump you, pathetic.Alistair said:
The UK government guarantees to pay a state pension to anyone, UK citizen or not, that has made sufficient qualifying contributions.felix said:
There are no such 'debts' owed by England other than to english people. The OAP doesn't work that way. Current Scots would pay Scottish pensions , etcmalcolmg said:
More garbage, Scotland will pay its own pensions like normal countries, England will pay the debts it owes for the money people paid into their pension scam scheme or perhaps welch on their commitments.Razedabode said:
Don’t forget as well, rUK will be paying Scottish pensions in the event of indyeek said:
That is actually my expected result - the issue needs to be laid to bed and the only way to do that is for the Scottish to see how much they are subsidised by the rest of the UK.Philip_Thompson said:
Although I support Scottish independence, I think the funniest result "for the bantz" would be SNP minority, majority with Greens, second referendum occurs, second referendum goes No.RochdalePioneers said:https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19270556.john-curtice-polls-show-snp-independence-support-slipping/
Professor JohnCurtice (for it is He) says that whilst SNP support is slipping, the Greens are romping along, so a majority of MSPs will support independence. Strap yourselves in - when HYUFD explodes as a result of Boris doing what he has endlessly said he won't do, it will be messy.
Which I know is something that MalcolmG is going to argue isn't the case but the reality is the oil has gone and Scotland has little else...
Otherwise are you expecting to still be paying taxes to Westminster in the future?
That's because the law says that anyone who has qualified for a state pension gets a state pension.
These are people who are currently no contributing a single penny of tax to the UK exchequer.
Now, non-residents do not get the annual _increases_ to the state pension - they get the pension at the level it was first awarded to them but that is the setup.
I mean this is really basic.
Literally anyone in the world who has made sufficient NICs gets a UK state pen sion if they want one.
This is an exciting frontier of lawlessness we approach.
Bonza.0 -
Not a form, but I can give you the mobile number of the Prime Minister and he can explain further.Theuniondivvie said:
Is there form for applying for those blowjobs currently?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.4 -
Oh deary me!Pulpstar said:0 -
My fellow cricket fans.
Can you tell me what the hell I've just watched here?
https://twitter.com/CrapCric/status/13880375640708751400 -
What about pensions of former Gurkhas, who move to John o'Groats after residing 30 years at Land's End, and have dual Paraguayan - Panamanian citizenship, but are married to a Pitcairn Islander?0
-
Tibet paysSeaShantyIrish2 said:What about pensions of former Gurkhas, who move to John o'Groats after residing 30 years at Land's End, and have dual Paraguayan - Panamanian citizenship, but are married to a Pitcairn Islander?
2 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BDRrl1pq3ITheScreamingEagles said:Actor Noel Clarke says he's deeply sorry for some of his actions and will seek professional help, but denies sexual misconduct
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-569486440 -
Cape Fear:kinabalu said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQkpes3dgzgSeaShantyIrish2 said:
My personal favorite De Niro performance is in "Analyze This"Stocky said:
Great film - De Niro at his best surely?kinabalu said:
Ah sorry. I meant De Niro in Taxi Driver. The iconic "Travis Bickle" character.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Yes to the first bit. As to your question, please translate?kinabalu said:
That sounds like an interesting but stressful job. Did it send you a bit "Bickle"?SeaShantyIrish2 said:
"Golf, you have to have your own car."kinabalu said:
Yes, I'll probably get another (and final) ICE. Only true compelling reason I need a car is golf. Otherwise I could just do hire and uber and train/bus. Golf, you have to have your own car.Anabobazina said:
New clean diesels are Ulez exempt – you don't need to buy a hybrid should you prefer an ICE.kinabalu said:
What do you make of hybrids?Dura_Ace said:
X7 is the largest BMW SUV. This discussion is like watching me try to opine on wine or coffee.TOPPING said:
Seconded on a BMW X series (5 is the biggest, 3 is a smaller 5 and 1 is the SUV of the Touring). Or touring if you prefer closer to the ground and traditional rear wheel drive.Gardenwalker said:
I am not a car person; largely I regard them as frustrating opex rather than sensible capex.Jonathan said:
budget?Gardenwalker said:Perhaps PB motorists can give me advice.
The last car I owned was a 1967 Triumph Herald convertible. That was back in Auckland, when I was a student.
Fast forward twenty odd years.
I live in London Zone 2, with a driveway. I have two small kids. I would like a car for the wife to commute in, and for country trips on the weekend.
I am not suffering a mid-life crisis and do not need a Ferrari. But I also hate cheap plasticky cars.
What kind of car should I get?
And, do I buy or lease?
So, I am reasonable well off I suppose, but begrudge the cost I am likely to need to spend.
Does that help?
But we are all skating on thin ice here once Dura comes on and spells out exactly what it is you actually do need.
I'm asking for a mate who because of the ULEZ expansion will have to kiss goodbye to his beloved old Merc.
Really? Way back when, as a cab driver in Baton Rouge, used to take Japanese sailors from their merchant ships back & forth to local (municipal) golf courses.
Also used to transport Norwegian sailors to & fro. NOT to golf courses, but in their case to a whorehouse just outside of town!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp_0ChLUn3s
I actually quite like some of his later career 'switch-to-light-comedy' stuff (eg Meet The Parents) but the above - from "Taxi" - does take some beating.
"I ain't no white trash piece of shit. I'm better than you all! I can out-learn you. I can out-read you. I can out-think you. And I can out-philosophize you. And I'm gonna outlast you. You think a couple whacks to my guts is gonna get me down? It's gonna take a hell of a lot more than that, Counsellor, to prove you're better than me!"1 -
I'd have thought an independent Scotland would apply to join the Euro, and use sterling* (Like the Isle of Man does) in the meantime.MaxPB said:
Yes proportional to the number of surviving retirees in Scotland from pre-independence in any given year and payable in sterling, not whatever devalued currency of choice. So they'd better get on with raising foreign currency.Pulpstar said:
Yes, this is correct !spudgfsh said:
Anywhere else in the world he moved to he wouldn't have been accruing a state pension. The pension system in this country is a national pension scheme, ie it's as much a Scottish pension as it is an English one or a Welsh one. Upon independence there will still be a joint responsibility between all four nations for the pensions accrued before independence. how that works out would be negotiated in the treaty and become law in all four nations upon ratification. The difference would start for people after independence and that would be the same situation as any other country.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
Trying to individually split everyone's source of NI contributions (And thus pension payment) would turn into a huge paperwork nightmare for both the rUK and Scottish Gov'ts. Scotland would have to take on a broad agreed share of the continual UK payments.
Nevertheless negotiating the weeds of this sort of thing is going to make Brexit look like a walk in the park.
* Definitely a negotiating weed betwixt Edinburgh and London.1 -
On voting - IIRC voting from an overseas [sic] country in the UK depends on the original constituency of residence, as well as of course being a UK subject of HMtQ,NorthofStoke said:
That is the 64 thousand Scottish Pound question. Will someone born in Scotland and living in Scotland be allowed to choose between Scottish and rUK citizenship? I rather think not. It will be messy and arbitrary. I doubt if everyone is going to get a choice. I was born in Scotland but live in England. If UK is destroyed the ramifications are going to be profound.HarryFreeman said:
Why wouldn't every person left in Scotland (and there would be a big exodus) not in that consideration then choose to have a rUk passport as it would assure you a pension.NorthofStoke said:I'd be pretty certain that if Scotland becomes independent that every UK citizen will become either an rUK or a Scottish citizen. Most will be simply allocated the new citizenship but some may well have a choice (e.g. born in England living in Scotland and vice versa). The relevant state will pay pensions of citizens independent of residence. If you are English in Scotland you may lose the right to vote (and vice versa) unless there is some agreement on this. Dual citizenship will no doubt be something that can be applied for but that doesn't confer or change pension rights as far as I know.
Would anyone give up their assured pension to have a vote in an Indy Scotland ?
I have not been resident in any constituency in rUK for 30 years (or whatever is the qualifying period). Ergo I have no residual rights to vote in England.
RP has been resident in Rochdale or wherever it was until less than a year ago. He has 29 years more voting in that coinstituency even if Scotland were to go independent tomorrow, unless of course he repudiates his rUK subject status. Just like a UK subject living in Spain or Somalia.
0 -
That's what I think too. As long as you agree that annual build-up entitlement stops the moment Scotland leaves the UK, and when the UK state pension is paid to a Scot it will probably not be subject to annual indexation.Alistair said:
Cool, so we've established the UK government would still pay state pensions to Scottish people then as directed by the law.MaxPB said:
In Scotland, yes. You wouldn't be in the UK any more. It's the whole point of independence.Alistair said:
So upon Scottish independence all British laws are rendered void?MaxPB said:
Under what jurisdiction? UK law will no longer apply.Alistair said:
The one's covering state pension eligibility? Based on how many years of qualifying NICs you have made?MaxPB said:
Law? Which law? I mean this is really basic. Scotland would be outside of the UK for jurisdictional purposes. There's simply no way that and independent Scotland could count on the UK treasury for anything at all.Alistair said:
The British state currently, right this second, pays non-uk citizens who are not resident in the UK a British state pension.Philip_Thompson said:
Except they're not dumping you, if you vote for independence then you're voting to dump them. Since pensions are PAYG, in the future Scottish taxes and Scottish pensions would be the responsibility of the Scottish state.malcolmg said:
The clown just talks through his posterior. They are so ignorant due to their bigotry that they cannot even rationalise that if you have paid someone for a pension they cannot just dump you, pathetic.Alistair said:
The UK government guarantees to pay a state pension to anyone, UK citizen or not, that has made sufficient qualifying contributions.felix said:
There are no such 'debts' owed by England other than to english people. The OAP doesn't work that way. Current Scots would pay Scottish pensions , etcmalcolmg said:
More garbage, Scotland will pay its own pensions like normal countries, England will pay the debts it owes for the money people paid into their pension scam scheme or perhaps welch on their commitments.Razedabode said:
Don’t forget as well, rUK will be paying Scottish pensions in the event of indyeek said:
That is actually my expected result - the issue needs to be laid to bed and the only way to do that is for the Scottish to see how much they are subsidised by the rest of the UK.Philip_Thompson said:
Although I support Scottish independence, I think the funniest result "for the bantz" would be SNP minority, majority with Greens, second referendum occurs, second referendum goes No.RochdalePioneers said:https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19270556.john-curtice-polls-show-snp-independence-support-slipping/
Professor JohnCurtice (for it is He) says that whilst SNP support is slipping, the Greens are romping along, so a majority of MSPs will support independence. Strap yourselves in - when HYUFD explodes as a result of Boris doing what he has endlessly said he won't do, it will be messy.
Which I know is something that MalcolmG is going to argue isn't the case but the reality is the oil has gone and Scotland has little else...
Otherwise are you expecting to still be paying taxes to Westminster in the future?
That's because the law says that anyone who has qualified for a state pension gets a state pension.
These are people who are currently no contributing a single penny of tax to the UK exchequer.
Now, non-residents do not get the annual _increases_ to the state pension - they get the pension at the level it was first awarded to them but that is the setup.
I mean this is really basic.
Literally anyone in the world who has made sufficient NICs gets a UK state pen sion if they want one.
This is an exciting frontier of lawlessness we approach.
Bonza.0 -
Are you sure your NOT talking about Matt Gaetz? OR maybe Andrew Cuomo?ping said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BDRrl1pq3ITheScreamingEagles said:Actor Noel Clarke says he's deeply sorry for some of his actions and will seek professional help, but denies sexual misconduct
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-569486440 -
There is no obligation to keep paying pensions to people once they leave the country. Generally the UK government does - although it does not always uprate. However, they are not legally obliged to do so and in the case of 5m Scots they clearly would not do so. They would become the responsibility of a Scottish government. It's the essence of independence.Alistair said:
Of course in reality there would be a negotiated settlement between rUK and Sco but there seems a great mant people on this board who don't understand how thr uk state pension works and don't realise that "being foreign" isn't a disqualifying criteria for receiving a UK state pension.TimT said:
As I said earlier, this is an obligation jointly assumed by all current UK citizens. The provenance going forward of jointly assumed obligations will no doubt be part of the complex divorce negotiations. It is naive to assume that all such jointly assumed obligations will be left entirely to rUK.Alistair said:
No, he's a Nigerian. Who is eligible for and receives a UK state pension due to his years of qualifying NIC payments. He is neither a Scottish nor British citizen.felix said:
That would depend entirely on his status if he became a Scottish citizen it would be Scotland , etc, etcAlistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
Who pays his UK state pension?
And say things had went nuclear and we were looking at a hard divorce I do t think anyone on this board has been able to suggest how the law would be changed to stop Scottish pensioners receibging the UK state pensions without also stopping other foreign nationals receivong their obligate doe sion payments.0 -
He is neither. He's a Nigerian citizen. As I have been explaining being a UK national is not a qualifying criteria to receiving a UK state pension. Any nationality on the planet can receive a UK state pension.NorthofStoke said:
If he is an rUK citizen living in Scotland then he'll get it paid. If he is Scottish citizen then no.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?0 -
The Nats are dangerously close to "make Mexico pay for the wall" level with this rubbish.
I guess it just speaks to their insecurities that they think they'll need the UK treasury to keep funding them after independence and are clearly absolutely shit scared that this won't be the case.1 -
The UK state pension is a contributary system, payable out of the National Insurance Fund. To get a full state pension (post April 2016 changes) you need to have 30 years of contributions (or credits). There is a separate fund, and a separate state pension legislation for Northern Ireland, so it should be easier to disentangle if Northern Ireland was to leave the UK.
However, there is only a single National Insurance Fund for England, Scotland and Wales. So if Scotland became independent there would need to be a negotiation as to how historic national insurance contributions/credits should entitle an individual to a Scottish or rUK state pension and how the NIF should be split. There is little consideration of residence or citizenship of an individual at present (except for uprating of pensions for certain non UK resident pensioners).
It would seem appropriate for an individual with, say, 20 years of contributions as a result of working in Scotland and 10 years of contributions as a result of working in England to have 2/3 of their pension paid by a new Scottish NIF, and 1/3 paid by a new E&W NIF (and consequently funded by current tax payers in those jurisdictions). But that would be part of the detailed negotiations.
As the NIF funds current state pensions out of current contributions there are no investments to support future state pension payments, so spliting the NIF itself is unlikely to be too difficult.2 -
LOLz. Missing the stumps twice! Missing that the fielder missed the stumps twice!!TheScreamingEagles said:My fellow cricket fans.
Can you tell me what the hell I've just watched here?
https://twitter.com/CrapCric/status/13880375640708751401 -
Yopu forgot to specify whether UK OAP, or UK military service pension, or private pensions.eek said:
Tibet paysSeaShantyIrish2 said:What about pensions of former Gurkhas, who move to John o'Groats after residing 30 years at Land's End, and have dual Paraguayan - Panamanian citizenship, but are married to a Pitcairn Islander?
0 -
Batters, bowlers, and outs.TheScreamingEagles said:My fellow cricket fans.
Can you tell me what the hell I've just watched here?
https://twitter.com/CrapCric/status/1388037564070875140
0 -
Not sure if this has been commented on:
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/30/figures-on-covid-deaths-post-jab-show-vaccines-success-scientists-say?__twitter_impression=true
The article is a bit unclear, but I would interpret this as 3 weeks post first jab: "A total of 526 patients out of 52,000 (1%) had been vaccinated more than three weeks before they developed Covid symptoms and were hospitalised. Of those, 113 died."0 -
There is precedence here with Hong Kong. People born in Hong Kong before 1997 are entitled to the emergency passport system that was set up but people born after Hong Kong was handed back to China are not. it would have to be negotiated but would probably work in a similar mannerNorthofStoke said:
That is the 64 thousand Scottish Pound question. Will someone born in Scotland and living in Scotland be allowed to choose between Scottish and rUK citizenship? I rather think not. It will be messy and arbitrary. I doubt if everyone is going to get a choice. I was born in Scotland but live in England. If UK is destroyed the ramifications are going to be profound.HarryFreeman said:
Why wouldn't every person left in Scotland (and there would be a big exodus) not in that consideration then choose to have a rUk passport as it would assure you a pension.NorthofStoke said:I'd be pretty certain that if Scotland becomes independent that every UK citizen will become either an rUK or a Scottish citizen. Most will be simply allocated the new citizenship but some may well have a choice (e.g. born in England living in Scotland and vice versa). The relevant state will pay pensions of citizens independent of residence. If you are English in Scotland you may lose the right to vote (and vice versa) unless there is some agreement on this. Dual citizenship will no doubt be something that can be applied for but that doesn't confer or change pension rights as far as I know.
Would anyone give up their assured pension to have a vote in an Indy Scotland ?0 -
Slight restraining order not to come within 12 feet vibe
https://twitter.com/seanbaillie9/status/1388134453080469508?s=200 -
Pensions accrued up to the date of independence could be paid from a joint fund which the Scottish and English governments pay into on the basis of how many pensioners are registered in each country for tax purposes.MaxPB said:
Yes proportional to the number of surviving retirees in Scotland from pre-independence in any given year and payable in sterling, not whatever devalued currency of choice. So they'd better get on with raising foreign currency.Pulpstar said:
Yes, this is correct !spudgfsh said:
Anywhere else in the world he moved to he wouldn't have been accruing a state pension. The pension system in this country is a national pension scheme, ie it's as much a Scottish pension as it is an English one or a Welsh one. Upon independence there will still be a joint responsibility between all four nations for the pensions accrued before independence. how that works out would be negotiated in the treaty and become law in all four nations upon ratification. The difference would start for people after independence and that would be the same situation as any other country.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
Trying to individually split everyone's source of NI contributions (And thus pension payment) would turn into a huge paperwork nightmare for both the rUK and Scottish Gov'ts. Scotland would have to take on a broad agreed share of the continual UK payments.
The problem for the Scots, is it would be a considerable financial Burdon for them to match English pensions after they stop getting Barnet Formula money and they would have to tax these pensions in order to afford them.
1 -
UPDATE : Poots looks like a forgone conclusion with a few endorsements today but the value is well and truly gone.2
-
Not a cricket fan per se, but looks like what used to be called way-back-when a Chinese Fire Drill.TheScreamingEagles said:My fellow cricket fans.
Can you tell me what the hell I've just watched here?
https://twitter.com/CrapCric/status/13880375640708751400 -
How do you determine who you are not going to pay pensions to?TheScreamingEagles said:
No I'm saying if Scotland walks away without agreeing to take on its fair share of net liabilities the RUK will have to prioritise its money, the money we would pay for Scottish pensions will be likely used to pay the liabilities as in 2014 I expect the UK government to say it will honour all UK debt payments if an independent Scotland will not.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
Those people in Scotland who aren't getting their pensions will have to take it up with the Scottish government.
An independent Scotland doesn't get to pick and choose which liabilities the UK pays if you won't honour your side of the liabilities as well.0 -
They went past that in 2014 when they said an independent Scotland would have the power to tell the Governor of the Bank of England what monetary policy to follow.MaxPB said:The Nats are dangerously close to "make Mexico pay for the wall" level with this rubbish.
I guess it just speaks to their insecurities that they think they'll need the UK treasury to keep funding them after independence and are clearly absolutely shit scared that this won't be the case.
They neglected to answer the following questions
1) Currently only the Chancellor of the Exchequer can set targets for the Governor, it would be unlawful to follow direction from anybody else, so how does an independent Scotland get around that?
and
2) What happens if they do get around 1) and an independent Scotland has different policy targets for the Governor to the RUK, such as interest rates and inflation targets?1 -
So who's in cahoots with Poots?TheGreenMachine said:UPDATE : Poots looks like a forgone conclusion with a few endorsements today but the value is well and truly gone.
0 -
Public sector pensions are already separate for local government, police, fire, NHS, etc. It's the civil service pension scheme proper that is still a UK thing.MaxPB said:
Public sector pensions as well, which will be a big one. The UK government will pass that liability on to the Scottish government for sure, just as the UK took the liability of UK citizens working for the EU.Philip_Thompson said:
Stop paying anyone paid from the Motherwell or Dundee Centres. Tell them to speak to the Scottish Government.Alistair said:
Of course in reality there would be a negotiated settlement between rUK and Sco but there seems a great mant people on this board who don't understand how thr uk state pension works and don't realise that "being foreign" isn't a disqualifying criteria for receiving a UK state pension.TimT said:
As I said earlier, this is an obligation jointly assumed by all current UK citizens. The provenance going forward of jointly assumed obligations will no doubt be part of the complex divorce negotiations. It is naive to assume that all such jointly assumed obligations will be left entirely to rUK.Alistair said:
No, he's a Nigerian. Who is eligible for and receives a UK state pension due to his years of qualifying NIC payments. He is neither a Scottish nor British citizen.felix said:
That would depend entirely on his status if he became a Scottish citizen it would be Scotland , etc, etcAlistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
Who pays his UK state pension?
And say things had went nuclear and we were looking at a hard divorce I do t think anyone on this board has been able to suggest how the law would be changed to stop Scottish pensioners receibging the UK state pensions without also stopping other foreign nationals receivong their obligate doe sion payments.
Seems simple enough to me.
What the Nats don't see is that there's no votes in England, Wales and Northern Ireland for giving Scotland anything post independence. I mean they voted for independence so why should we? Just as the EU kept saying brexit means brexit (which I pointed out was fair at the time) indy means indy. There's no scenario where the UK treasury keeps these liabilities and pays pensions, grants or anything else post independence.0 -
The only way Scotland keeps sterling is if they do it unilaterally. There's no way that the UK government will agree to a monetary union without basically an even bigger say over how Scotland is run than it has now. Imagine the BoE running a QE programme like the ECB that had to include Scotland. The idea is ridiculous.Pulpstar said:
I'd have thought an independent Scotland would apply to join the Euro, and use sterling* (Like the Isle of Man does) in the meantime.MaxPB said:
Yes proportional to the number of surviving retirees in Scotland from pre-independence in any given year and payable in sterling, not whatever devalued currency of choice. So they'd better get on with raising foreign currency.Pulpstar said:
Yes, this is correct !spudgfsh said:
Anywhere else in the world he moved to he wouldn't have been accruing a state pension. The pension system in this country is a national pension scheme, ie it's as much a Scottish pension as it is an English one or a Welsh one. Upon independence there will still be a joint responsibility between all four nations for the pensions accrued before independence. how that works out would be negotiated in the treaty and become law in all four nations upon ratification. The difference would start for people after independence and that would be the same situation as any other country.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
Trying to individually split everyone's source of NI contributions (And thus pension payment) would turn into a huge paperwork nightmare for both the rUK and Scottish Gov'ts. Scotland would have to take on a broad agreed share of the continual UK payments.
Nevertheless negotiating the weeds of this sort of thing is going to make Brexit look like a walk in the park.
* Definitely a negotiating weed betwixt Edinburgh and London.2 -
In this hypothetical (?) all of the above.Carnyx said:
Yopu forgot to specify whether UK OAP, or UK military service pension, or private pensions.eek said:
Tibet paysSeaShantyIrish2 said:What about pensions of former Gurkhas, who move to John o'Groats after residing 30 years at Land's End, and have dual Paraguayan - Panamanian citizenship, but are married to a Pitcairn Islander?
Oh, and forgot to mention the subject is a left-handed transvestite baronet. If that matters.0 -
What I'm getting at with my tesiously repetitive questions is that people seem to think this pension thing is simple, in either a negotiated or nuclear divorce, and it is really, really not simple.
The UK state pension obligation is a world wide right as it currently stands.0 -
UK cases by specimen date
1 -
Are you currently resident in a country that has just walked away from their share of their UK net liabilties?Alistair said:
How do you determine who you are not going to pay pensions to?TheScreamingEagles said:
No I'm saying if Scotland walks away without agreeing to take on its fair share of net liabilities the RUK will have to prioritise its money, the money we would pay for Scottish pensions will be likely used to pay the liabilities as in 2014 I expect the UK government to say it will honour all UK debt payments if an independent Scotland will not.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
Those people in Scotland who aren't getting their pensions will have to take it up with the Scottish government.
An independent Scotland doesn't get to pick and choose which liabilities the UK pays if you won't honour your side of the liabilities as well.
Yes - RUK isn't paying your pension
No - RUK will continue to pay your pension1 -
UK case summary
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"My dear, have you had your Christmas goose?"Theuniondivvie said:Slight restraining order not to come within 12 feet vibe
https://twitter.com/seanbaillie9/status/1388134453080469508?s=200 -
UK hospitals
0 -
Accrued UK pension will continue to be a Scottish, Welsh, English and Northern Irish obligation after independence, hence the need to agree a split.Alistair said:What I'm getting at with my tesiously repetitive questions is that people seem to think this pension thing is simple, in either a negotiated or nuclear divorce, and it is really, really not simple.
The UK state pension obligation is a world wide right as it currently stands.0 -
Tibet? Is the PRC aware of this?eek said:
Tibet paysSeaShantyIrish2 said:What about pensions of former Gurkhas, who move to John o'Groats after residing 30 years at Land's End, and have dual Paraguayan - Panamanian citizenship, but are married to a Pitcairn Islander?
0 -
I was thinking more the demonic entity from It Follows.Theuniondivvie said:Slight restraining order not to come within 12 feet vibe
https://twitter.com/seanbaillie9/status/1388134453080469508?s=200 -
UK deaths
0 -
UK R
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Of course, the day after a Yes vote it's a case of Independence Means Independence.MaxPB said:
Public sector pensions as well, which will be a big one. The UK government will pass that liability on to the Scottish government for sure, just as the UK took the liability of UK citizens working for the EU.Philip_Thompson said:
Stop paying anyone paid from the Motherwell or Dundee Centres. Tell them to speak to the Scottish Government.Alistair said:
Of course in reality there would be a negotiated settlement between rUK and Sco but there seems a great mant people on this board who don't understand how thr uk state pension works and don't realise that "being foreign" isn't a disqualifying criteria for receiving a UK state pension.TimT said:
As I said earlier, this is an obligation jointly assumed by all current UK citizens. The provenance going forward of jointly assumed obligations will no doubt be part of the complex divorce negotiations. It is naive to assume that all such jointly assumed obligations will be left entirely to rUK.Alistair said:
No, he's a Nigerian. Who is eligible for and receives a UK state pension due to his years of qualifying NIC payments. He is neither a Scottish nor British citizen.felix said:
That would depend entirely on his status if he became a Scottish citizen it would be Scotland , etc, etcAlistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
Who pays his UK state pension?
And say things had went nuclear and we were looking at a hard divorce I do t think anyone on this board has been able to suggest how the law would be changed to stop Scottish pensioners receibging the UK state pensions without also stopping other foreign nationals receivong their obligate doe sion payments.
Seems simple enough to me.
What the Nats don't see is that there's no votes in England, Wales and Northern Ireland for giving Scotland anything post independence. I mean they voted for independence so why should we? Just as the EU kept saying brexit means brexit (which I pointed out was fair at the time) indy means indy. There's no scenario where the UK treasury keeps these liabilities and pays pensions, grants or anything else post independence.
And I agree that's entirely fair. Never had an issue with the UK settling it's divorce issues.0 -
Age related data
1 -
Sounds like Steve Bannon.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Cape Fear:kinabalu said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQkpes3dgzgSeaShantyIrish2 said:
My personal favorite De Niro performance is in "Analyze This"Stocky said:
Great film - De Niro at his best surely?kinabalu said:
Ah sorry. I meant De Niro in Taxi Driver. The iconic "Travis Bickle" character.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Yes to the first bit. As to your question, please translate?kinabalu said:
That sounds like an interesting but stressful job. Did it send you a bit "Bickle"?SeaShantyIrish2 said:
"Golf, you have to have your own car."kinabalu said:
Yes, I'll probably get another (and final) ICE. Only true compelling reason I need a car is golf. Otherwise I could just do hire and uber and train/bus. Golf, you have to have your own car.Anabobazina said:
New clean diesels are Ulez exempt – you don't need to buy a hybrid should you prefer an ICE.kinabalu said:
What do you make of hybrids?Dura_Ace said:
X7 is the largest BMW SUV. This discussion is like watching me try to opine on wine or coffee.TOPPING said:
Seconded on a BMW X series (5 is the biggest, 3 is a smaller 5 and 1 is the SUV of the Touring). Or touring if you prefer closer to the ground and traditional rear wheel drive.Gardenwalker said:
I am not a car person; largely I regard them as frustrating opex rather than sensible capex.Jonathan said:
budget?Gardenwalker said:Perhaps PB motorists can give me advice.
The last car I owned was a 1967 Triumph Herald convertible. That was back in Auckland, when I was a student.
Fast forward twenty odd years.
I live in London Zone 2, with a driveway. I have two small kids. I would like a car for the wife to commute in, and for country trips on the weekend.
I am not suffering a mid-life crisis and do not need a Ferrari. But I also hate cheap plasticky cars.
What kind of car should I get?
And, do I buy or lease?
So, I am reasonable well off I suppose, but begrudge the cost I am likely to need to spend.
Does that help?
But we are all skating on thin ice here once Dura comes on and spells out exactly what it is you actually do need.
I'm asking for a mate who because of the ULEZ expansion will have to kiss goodbye to his beloved old Merc.
Really? Way back when, as a cab driver in Baton Rouge, used to take Japanese sailors from their merchant ships back & forth to local (municipal) golf courses.
Also used to transport Norwegian sailors to & fro. NOT to golf courses, but in their case to a whorehouse just outside of town!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp_0ChLUn3s
I actually quite like some of his later career 'switch-to-light-comedy' stuff (eg Meet The Parents) but the above - from "Taxi" - does take some beating.
"I ain't no white trash piece of shit. I'm better than you all! I can out-learn you. I can out-read you. I can out-think you. And I can out-philosophize you. And I'm gonna outlast you. You think a couple whacks to my guts is gonna get me down? It's gonna take a hell of a lot more than that, Counsellor, to prove you're better than me!"1 -
Age related data scaled to 100K population
0 -
"As it currently stands". You are calling for massive change. Fine, no problem with Scottish independence if the voters want it. But please don't expect and vote for Scottish independence and expect things to stay as they currently stand.Alistair said:What I'm getting at with my tesiously repetitive questions is that people seem to think this pension thing is simple, in either a negotiated or nuclear divorce, and it is really, really not simple.
The UK state pension obligation is a world wide right as it currently stands.5 -
UK vaccinations
0 -
CFR
0 -
So what does a Poots leadership mean for the Northern Ireland Assembly vote in ‘22?0
-
as with any pension, ongoing responsibility for it will remain for all parties signed up to it. Independence doesn't change that. there are complex details of edge cases which would need to be resolved but there would be a joint financial responsibility to all members of the pension for the governments all of member countries. The complexity comes, not with existing pensioners, but when people become eligible to retire and claim from the fund. There are ways to resolve this but it'd need to be negotiated.Alistair said:What I'm getting at with my tesiously repetitive questions is that people seem to think this pension thing is simple, in either a negotiated or nuclear divorce, and it is really, really not simple.
The UK state pension obligation is a world wide right as it currently stands.
Note: there is no actual fund, the NI money goes straight into general taxation which makes it a defined benefit pension not a defined contribution. future taxpayers of rUK and iScot would be liable to fund the pensions (and would happily do so if they were reasonable).1 -
This might sound sarcastic but genuinely thank you for being the only person who is clear in what you would do.TheScreamingEagles said:
Are you currently resident in a country that has just walked away from their share of their UK net liabilties?Alistair said:
How do you determine who you are not going to pay pensions to?TheScreamingEagles said:
No I'm saying if Scotland walks away without agreeing to take on its fair share of net liabilities the RUK will have to prioritise its money, the money we would pay for Scottish pensions will be likely used to pay the liabilities as in 2014 I expect the UK government to say it will honour all UK debt payments if an independent Scotland will not.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
Those people in Scotland who aren't getting their pensions will have to take it up with the Scottish government.
An independent Scotland doesn't get to pick and choose which liabilities the UK pays if you won't honour your side of the liabilities as well.
Yes - RUK isn't paying your pension
No - RUK will continue to pay your pension0 -
It's not what I would do but it is what I expect a RUK government to do.Alistair said:
This might sound sarcastic but genuinely thank you for being the only person who is clear in what you would do.TheScreamingEagles said:
Are you currently resident in a country that has just walked away from their share of their UK net liabilties?Alistair said:
How do you determine who you are not going to pay pensions to?TheScreamingEagles said:
No I'm saying if Scotland walks away without agreeing to take on its fair share of net liabilities the RUK will have to prioritise its money, the money we would pay for Scottish pensions will be likely used to pay the liabilities as in 2014 I expect the UK government to say it will honour all UK debt payments if an independent Scotland will not.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
Those people in Scotland who aren't getting their pensions will have to take it up with the Scottish government.
An independent Scotland doesn't get to pick and choose which liabilities the UK pays if you won't honour your side of the liabilities as well.
Yes - RUK isn't paying your pension
No - RUK will continue to pay your pension0 -
This is the crucial point. It's not the case that - if one part of the UK splits off - that it keeps its share of the assets but loses the liabilities.TimT said:
As I said earlier, this is an obligation jointly assumed by all current UK citizens. The provenance going forward of jointly assumed obligations will no doubt be part of the complex divorce negotiations. It is naive to assume that all such jointly assumed obligations will be left entirely to rUK.Alistair said:
No, he's a Nigerian. Who is eligible for and receives a UK state pension due to his years of qualifying NIC payments. He is neither a Scottish nor British citizen.felix said:
That would depend entirely on his status if he became a Scottish citizen it would be Scotland , etc, etcAlistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
Who pays his UK state pension?
The reality is that it would be a part of the negotiation, just as pensions for Eurocrats were part of the negotiations between the EU and the UK.3 -
I am about as far from an English nationalist as you will find. If in the first rUK election the only party saying rUK should not pay Scottish pensions for free is an English nationalist party, even I will vote for them ahead of the mainstream parties. There is zero chance, literally zero, that rUK voters will accept what you are suggesting.Alistair said:
This might sound sarcastic but genuinely thank you for being the only person who is clear in what you would do.TheScreamingEagles said:
Are you currently resident in a country that has just walked away from their share of their UK net liabilties?Alistair said:
How do you determine who you are not going to pay pensions to?TheScreamingEagles said:
No I'm saying if Scotland walks away without agreeing to take on its fair share of net liabilities the RUK will have to prioritise its money, the money we would pay for Scottish pensions will be likely used to pay the liabilities as in 2014 I expect the UK government to say it will honour all UK debt payments if an independent Scotland will not.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
Those people in Scotland who aren't getting their pensions will have to take it up with the Scottish government.
An independent Scotland doesn't get to pick and choose which liabilities the UK pays if you won't honour your side of the liabilities as well.
Yes - RUK isn't paying your pension
No - RUK will continue to pay your pension1 -
I think as ever the question is that the definitions are on wheels.Philip_Thompson said:
Man Utd vs Liverpool this weekend too.FrancisUrquhart said:We are can't take a stance or join a lobbying campaign, but we are taking a stance....
The BBC as a corporation cannot take part in the campaign. We have special duties that don't apply to other organisations under our Royal Charter and editorial guidelines that prevent us from joining lobbying campaigns. So while we have firm policies to deal with online abuse, the corporation cannot join a lobbying campaign no matter how worthy the cause.
This does not mean that the BBC is neutral on issues such as racism or hate crime. They are abhorrent.
Something tells me the fans of the winning club will not stay quiet on social media.
Especially concerning such as 'hate incidents', the new law that has just passed, or the one that the SNP aspired(?) to pass.1 -
Would it apply to rUK citizens who move to Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It's not what I would do but it is what I expect a RUK government to do.Alistair said:
This might sound sarcastic but genuinely thank you for being the only person who is clear in what you would do.TheScreamingEagles said:
Are you currently resident in a country that has just walked away from their share of their UK net liabilties?Alistair said:
How do you determine who you are not going to pay pensions to?TheScreamingEagles said:
No I'm saying if Scotland walks away without agreeing to take on its fair share of net liabilities the RUK will have to prioritise its money, the money we would pay for Scottish pensions will be likely used to pay the liabilities as in 2014 I expect the UK government to say it will honour all UK debt payments if an independent Scotland will not.Alistair said:
So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?TheScreamingEagles said:
It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.Alistair said:
So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.Alistair said:A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.
Scotland becomes independent.
Who pays his future pension liability?
Who pays if he then moves to New York?
The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
Scottish independence means Scottish independence.
You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
Those people in Scotland who aren't getting their pensions will have to take it up with the Scottish government.
An independent Scotland doesn't get to pick and choose which liabilities the UK pays if you won't honour your side of the liabilities as well.
Yes - RUK isn't paying your pension
No - RUK will continue to pay your pension0 -
Presumably iScotGov will do the same for any Scots who live anywhere else in the world.noneoftheabove said:
"As it currently stands". You are calling for massive change. Fine, no problem with Scottish independence if the voters want it. But please don't expect and vote for Scottish independence and expect things to stay as they currently stand.Alistair said:What I'm getting at with my tesiously repetitive questions is that people seem to think this pension thing is simple, in either a negotiated or nuclear divorce, and it is really, really not simple.
The UK state pension obligation is a world wide right as it currently stands.0 -
More than likely, especially likely for those who move to Scotland after the Indyref2 vote.Alistair said:Would it apply to rUK citizens who move to Scotland?
0 -
The point you reach when you realise that the volume of accusations makes denying them all a sub optimal response.TheScreamingEagles said:Actor Noel Clarke says he's deeply sorry for some of his actions and will seek professional help, but denies sexual misconduct
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-569486440 -
Philip is surely proof that fools don’t always have to be illiterate?Nigel_Foremain said:
Philip, your attempts at insults are very funny. I am not sure how an illiterate fool would be able to write on here to either mock you (which let's face it is not that difficult), or to respond to your sixth-formesque debate positions.Philip_Thompson said:
Only because you're an illiterate fool who can't tell the difference.Nigel_Foremain said:
Hehe. I think if the vaccine had been rolled out under a Labour government, rather than one led (and I use that word loosely) by his hero from Eton, Philip would have been a fully paid up Q-Anon antivaxer.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Beginning tomorrow we will be monitoring your post to see IF there are any signs of adverse reaction to the jab.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed, I wasn't expecting to get my invite for a few more weeks.MaxPB said:
Not long now, and good to see there's available slots for first doses without any issues or waiting for a week.Philip_Thompson said:Just got my Covid Vaccine invitation via text! 💉😁
Will be going tomorrow morning.
38 years old, so into the thirties now.
The link came with an address I could get the jab at, and an option to choose different times at different dates. I chose the first available slot at 9:10am tomorrow morning. No point dilly dallying.
My prognostication: the vac may make your posts even nuttier than per usual!
[EDIT] Just kidding! (I think!!)
That you think that, despite my repeated unequivocal attacks on Trumpism, QAnon and anything like that, which others have said to you time and again too, just shows that you're an ignorant zealot yourself.
You have never been able to see or show a single thing Trumpist about me. My philosophy isn't hidden, I want to see a liberal, small, Thatcherite English state. I would welcome anyone who wants to migrate to England to do so, so long as they can support themselves and pay taxes I'd be very happy to see immigration go up as long as they have no claim on benefits.
What about that is Q?
OK, so I will explain how I see strong parallels between you and Trump supporters. You call yourself a "libertarian" even though you are clearly confused over what one is; you describe yourself as a nationalist and say there is nothing wrong with populism. You are unable to cover your dislike of foreigners, particularly Europeans, and your clearly deranged obsession/hatred with/of the EU is very similar with Trumpists obsession with "World Government" through the UN. Add to that the fact that you spend a very unhealthy amount of time on here talking garbage on subjects you clearly have no experience of, I would not be at all surprised if you didn't believe in lizard people and various other conspiracy theories beloved by people who spend too much time online and hold to your extremist right wing views. You are simply an English version of malcolmg; not quite as incoherent or as angry, but certainly getting there. I rest my case.1 -
Winnie the Poots!SeaShantyIrish2 said:
So who's in cahoots with Poots?TheGreenMachine said:UPDATE : Poots looks like a forgone conclusion with a few endorsements today but the value is well and truly gone.
2 -
Yes definitely, you've got terrible reading comprehension.Nigel_Foremain said:
Philip, your attempts at insults are very funny. I am not sure how an illiterate fool would be able to write on here to either mock you (which let's face it is not that difficult), or to respond to your sixth-formesque debate positions.Philip_Thompson said:
Only because you're an illiterate fool who can't tell the difference.Nigel_Foremain said:
Hehe. I think if the vaccine had been rolled out under a Labour government, rather than one led (and I use that word loosely) by his hero from Eton, Philip would have been a fully paid up Q-Anon antivaxer.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Beginning tomorrow we will be monitoring your post to see IF there are any signs of adverse reaction to the jab.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed, I wasn't expecting to get my invite for a few more weeks.MaxPB said:
Not long now, and good to see there's available slots for first doses without any issues or waiting for a week.Philip_Thompson said:Just got my Covid Vaccine invitation via text! 💉😁
Will be going tomorrow morning.
38 years old, so into the thirties now.
The link came with an address I could get the jab at, and an option to choose different times at different dates. I chose the first available slot at 9:10am tomorrow morning. No point dilly dallying.
My prognostication: the vac may make your posts even nuttier than per usual!
[EDIT] Just kidding! (I think!!)
That you think that, despite my repeated unequivocal attacks on Trumpism, QAnon and anything like that, which others have said to you time and again too, just shows that you're an ignorant zealot yourself.
You have never been able to see or show a single thing Trumpist about me. My philosophy isn't hidden, I want to see a liberal, small, Thatcherite English state. I would welcome anyone who wants to migrate to England to do so, so long as they can support themselves and pay taxes I'd be very happy to see immigration go up as long as they have no claim on benefits.
What about that is Q?
OK, so I will explain how I see strong parallels between you and Trump supporters. You call yourself a "libertarian" even though you are clearly confused over what one is; you describe yourself as a nationalist and say there is nothing wrong with populism. You are unable to cover your dislike of foreigners, particularly Europeans, and your clearly deranged obsession/hatred with/of the EU is very similar with Trumpists obsession with "World Government" through the UN. Add to that the fact that you spend a very unhealthy amount of time on here talking garbage on subjects you clearly have no experience of, I would not be at all surprised if you didn't believe in lizard people and various other conspiracy theories beloved by people who spend too much time online and hold to your extremist right wing views. You are simply an English version of malcolmg; not quite as incoherent or as angry, but certainly getting there. I rest my case.
As far as libertarianism, I believe in a small state that mostly leaves people to run their lives, both socially and economically.
I have zero dislike for foreigners. That is something you have made up in your own head. I've never, ever expressed that. I have no dislike whatsoever for Europeans.
No obsession with the EU. Just debating it politically on a politics website. Funny that.
Your whole thing is a rather tragic rant.0 -
I notice that Arlene is going to resign her DUP membership after stepping down from the leadership, because she is unhappy with the direction the party has been taking. Under her own leadership. Truly bizarre.1
-
Thank-you for the header.
This is an interesting article from Naomi O'Leary, about an incident of anti-vaxxers linked to a Measles outbreak in Samoa.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/samoa-s-measles-reversal-offers-stark-warning-for-covid-19-pandemic-1.4550376
Measles was not always a problem for the Pacific island of Samoa. A high percentage of the population was vaccinated for the illness, making it difficult for the contagious disease to spread if it arrived on the island.
But all this changed when the vaccination of one-year-old babies collapsed to a rate of just 31 per cent in 2018, in the wake of a safety scare. The controversy led to international vaccine deniers focusing their efforts on the island. A vicious measles outbreak followed, killing 83 people, mostly babies and toddlers, a devastating toll on a community of just 200,000 people.
0 -
First thing she has got right!IanB2 said:I notice that Arlene is going to resign her DUP membership after stepping down from the leadership, because she is unhappy with the direction the party has been taking. Under her own leadership. Truly bizarre.
1 -
Don’t forget that Arlene was originally UUP.IanB2 said:I notice that Arlene is going to resign her DUP membership after stepping down from the leadership, because she is unhappy with the direction the party has been taking. Under her own leadership. Truly bizarre.
It’s possible that this means that she expects the extremist Presbyterian nutters to effect a recapture of the party, something she doesn’t personally back and which is likely to be electorally suicidal.0 -
Ministers have urged a family facing a devastating bill as part of the building safety crisis to contact the Samaritans if they want help with “feelings of distress or despair”.
In a move that sparked “disbelief” in the leaseholder involved, Jamie Robb, the response from an aide to the housing secretary, Robert Jenrick, to a plea for help with fire remediation works included the phone number for the suicide prevention service. It recommended its “free, anonymous, confidential and non-judgemental support”.
The Robb family wrote to Jenrick in November last year after Jamie Robb, 30, discovered he was facing a bill of up to £40,000 for fire safety repairs on his apartment in a Manchester high-rise.
The response arrived this week as the government pushed through fire safety legislation that leaves thousands of leaseholders facing bills of up to £75,000 each to fix apartment buildings found to be dangerous in the wake of the Grenfell Tower fire. “The government is aware of the effect that ongoing building safety concerns may have on the mental health of residents … If you feel able to, you can discuss any difficulties with your GP who will be able to signpost you to suitable healthcare services, if appropriate. You can also access support from the Samaritans by calling freephone 116 123”.0 -
If true, all those MPs and others saying that the PM has paid for all this himself so what's the problem will feel like fools. Will we ever get the truth? I doubt it.TOPPING said:
Could easily be - did @Charles speculate a similar thing (the allowance brought forward)?Cyclefree said:I've had an off the wall idea re the wallpaper (ho ho).
The PM says he has now "covered" the costs. Odd word that - "covered".
Maybe what has happened is that the entire sum has been paid by the annual £30k allowance - using unused annual allowances from previous years and years to come. The original donor has been repaid from that sum. So the entire cost has come from the taxpayer but using the annual allowance the PM has for his flat.
The PM has not paid anything himself. He has simply covered the costs out of his annual allowance. The taxpayer has not been charged anything more than they would have been had the allowance been used up every year.
This would explain the tortured refusals to explain everything simply - not just because it looks greedy to blow a 5-year budget in one go but also because it looks bad to have to repay the original rich Tory donor.
Maybe completely wrong of course.
Oh and I doubt it will affect a single vote.
"Covered" is certainly very carefully used and stands out in Boris' pronouncements over the issue.0 -
If Sinn Fein top the next NI election, it is possible they will demand a border poll.
I presume though that they’d have no right to do so unilaterally.
Also, Sinn Fein themselves have been losing support to the SDLP and the Alliance.
The best thing for Northern Irish politics would be for the Alliance to top the next poll, and for the loons in the DUP to be trounced.5 -
Some things are hidden in plain sight for years
!
https://twitter.com/The66Ramblers/status/11409993932748144640 -
I've only ever bought one car on a lease, and I expect it to be my last diesel.TimT said:
But be careful about your mileage. Buy gap insurance if you think your annual mileage might exceed the lease terms - otherwise you'll get a big bill at the end of the lease and lose the car.IanB2 said:
Except that if you lease you tend to get better offers on the purchase price, and there are some very low interest (indeed a few zero per cent) offers around. If you can get a zero per cent lease offer, you don’t need to decide whether to buy the car until the three years are up, at no extra cost.Jonathan said:
FWIW I buy and write it off. Probably not the cheapest, but I simply can't be arsed with leases and finance on cars and all the Delboy nonsense that goes with it.Gardenwalker said:Thanks for the achingly dull recommendations, although I accept my requirement is achingly dull.
So, do I buy or lease?
My price was -25% on list, with a reasonable but not exceptional finance offer. Though I am sure others have done better.
Get them to match Carwow or similar.0 -
Any UK political party that proposed to bung the Scots billions a year on an indefinite basis is going to discover at the following general election just how angry the public can get.MaxPB said:The Nats are dangerously close to "make Mexico pay for the wall" level with this rubbish.
I guess it just speaks to their insecurities that they think they'll need the UK treasury to keep funding them after independence and are clearly absolutely shit scared that this won't be the case.2 -
I like this part:TheScreamingEagles said:Actor Noel Clarke says he's deeply sorry for some of his actions and will seek professional help, but denies sexual misconduct
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-56948644
"Clarke is known for playing Mikey Smith in Doctor Who from 2005-10 ..."
But not known well enough for the BBC to get the name of the character right, of course.2 -
Freedland:
In refusing to tell us who first paid that bill for overpriced wallpaper, or to give full details of who paid for his December 2019 holiday in Mustique, Johnson has offended the public trust.
Johnson’s Brexit protocol that put a border down the Irish sea, even after he’d vowed never to put a border down the Irish sea, thereby imperilling a union he swore blind he would protect. His proposal of an internal market bill that proudly declared its intention to break international law, prompting the UK’s top legal civil servant to quit – one of a disturbing number of mandarins driven to resignation on Johnson’s watch.
His illegal suspension of parliament, overturned as a violation of fundamental democratic practice by unanimous verdict of the supreme court. The lies that led to that moment: the £350m on the side of the bus or the scare story that Turkey was poised to join the EU and that Britain would be powerless to stop it. Siding with Vladimir Putin to suggest that the EU had provoked the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Scandals, all.
The real scandal lies with us, the electorate, still seduced by a tousled-hair rebel shtick and faux bonhomie that should have palled years ago. Americans got rid of their lying, self-serving, scandal-plagued charlatan 100 days ago. They did it at the first possible opportunity. Next week, polls suggest we’re poised to give ours a partial thumbs-up at the ballot box. For allowing this shameless man to keep riding high, some of the shame is on us.4 -
I bought my car through Carwow. Saved £1,500 on the best price offered by my local dealer, at the cost of having to drive to Norfolk to collect it.MattW said:
I've only ever bought one car on a lease, and I expect it to be my last diesel.TimT said:
But be careful about your mileage. Buy gap insurance if you think your annual mileage might exceed the lease terms - otherwise you'll get a big bill at the end of the lease and lose the car.IanB2 said:
Except that if you lease you tend to get better offers on the purchase price, and there are some very low interest (indeed a few zero per cent) offers around. If you can get a zero per cent lease offer, you don’t need to decide whether to buy the car until the three years are up, at no extra cost.Jonathan said:
FWIW I buy and write it off. Probably not the cheapest, but I simply can't be arsed with leases and finance on cars and all the Delboy nonsense that goes with it.Gardenwalker said:Thanks for the achingly dull recommendations, although I accept my requirement is achingly dull.
So, do I buy or lease?
My price was -25% on list, with a reasonable but not exceptional finance offer. Though I am sure others have done better.
Get them to match Carwow or similar.0
This discussion has been closed.