Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Setting the scene for next Thursday’s local elections – politicalbetting.com

1235710

Comments

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243
    TimT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The main lesson I take from the last 15 months is that risk and probability need to be taught in schools, because most people don't seem to have a clue about either of them.

    My main argument to my vac-hesitant friend, was that the odds of a bad outcome from vaccination are MUCH MUCH less than odds of getting COVID without a jab.

    And that WITH vaccination the odds of getting it are VERY low, and ditto with the odds of getting seriously sick or becoming contagious IF you do come down with the crud anyway.
    Most risks of the type that cause people problems are not actually amenable to quantitive approaches. Sure, probabilities have to be understood by those driving public health policies and decision-making, but they have very little impact on how individuals act - and not for issues of ignorance, but more issues of biology and social psychology.
    Think that's correct, that was the tenor of the Seattle Times article.

    But at least I gave my friend something to think about. Also mentioned fact that yours truly has been vacced with zero negative side affects, but some positive ones - such as feeling quite comfortable going out to restaurants again.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19270556.john-curtice-polls-show-snp-independence-support-slipping/

    Professor JohnCurtice (for it is He) says that whilst SNP support is slipping, the Greens are romping along, so a majority of MSPs will support independence. Strap yourselves in - when HYUFD explodes as a result of Boris doing what he has endlessly said he won't do, it will be messy.

    Although I support Scottish independence, I think the funniest result "for the bantz" would be SNP minority, majority with Greens, second referendum occurs, second referendum goes No.
    That is actually my expected result - the issue needs to be laid to bed and the only way to do that is for the Scottish to see how much they are subsidised by the rest of the UK.

    Which I know is something that MalcolmG is going to argue isn't the case but the reality is the oil has gone and Scotland has little else...
    Don’t forget as well, rUK will be paying Scottish pensions in the event of indy
    More garbage, Scotland will pay its own pensions like normal countries, England will pay the debts it owes for the money people paid into their pension scam scheme or perhaps welch on their commitments.
    There are no such 'debts' owed by England other than to english people. The OAP doesn't work that way. Current Scots would pay Scottish pensions , etc
    The UK government guarantees to pay a state pension to anyone, UK citizen or not, that has made sufficient qualifying contributions.
    The clown just talks through his posterior. They are so ignorant due to their bigotry that they cannot even rationalise that if you have paid someone for a pension they cannot just dump you, pathetic.
    Except they're not dumping you, if you vote for independence then you're voting to dump them. Since pensions are PAYG, in the future Scottish taxes and Scottish pensions would be the responsibility of the Scottish state.

    Otherwise are you expecting to still be paying taxes to Westminster in the future?
    The British state currently, right this second, pays non-uk citizens who are not resident in the UK a British state pension.

    That's because the law says that anyone who has qualified for a state pension gets a state pension.

    These are people who are currently no contributing a single penny of tax to the UK exchequer.

    Now, non-residents do not get the annual _increases_ to the state pension - they get the pension at the level it was first awarded to them but that is the setup.
    Law? Which law? I mean this is really basic. Scotland would be outside of the UK for jurisdictional purposes. There's simply no way that and independent Scotland could count on the UK treasury for anything at all.
    The one's covering state pension eligibility? Based on how many years of qualifying NICs you have made?

    I mean this is really basic.

    Literally anyone in the world who has made sufficient NICs gets a UK state pen sion if they want one.
    Under what jurisdiction? UK law will no longer apply.
    So upon Scottish independence all British laws are rendered void?

    This is an exciting frontier of lawlessness we approach.
    In Scotland, yes. You wouldn't be in the UK any more. It's the whole point of independence.
    Cool, so we've established the UK government would still pay state pensions to Scottish people then as directed by the law.

    Bonza.
    No? You can lie to yourself about what independence entails if you want. Maybe it helps you sleep at night. The facts are that the UK government isn't going to be paying out for Scotland once it becomes independent. Pensions are part of that responsibility of being independent. If you don't like it maybe you've wasted the last 20 years of your life campaigning for it.
    Please describe the change in law the UK government would need to implement to stop paying uk state pensions to scots without also stopping paying the UK state pension to other foreign nationals.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,856

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Jonathan said:

    Perhaps PB motorists can give me advice.

    The last car I owned was a 1967 Triumph Herald convertible. That was back in Auckland, when I was a student.

    Fast forward twenty odd years.

    I live in London Zone 2, with a driveway. I have two small kids. I would like a car for the wife to commute in, and for country trips on the weekend.

    I am not suffering a mid-life crisis and do not need a Ferrari. But I also hate cheap plasticky cars.

    What kind of car should I get?
    And, do I buy or lease?

    budget?
    I am not a car person; largely I regard them as frustrating opex rather than sensible capex.

    So, I am reasonable well off I suppose, but begrudge the cost I am likely to need to spend.

    Does that help?
    Seconded on a BMW X series (5 is the biggest, 3 is a smaller 5 and 1 is the SUV of the Touring). Or touring if you prefer closer to the ground and traditional rear wheel drive.

    But we are all skating on thin ice here once Dura comes on and spells out exactly what it is you actually do need.
    X7 is the largest BMW SUV. This discussion is like watching me try to opine on wine or coffee.
    What do you make of hybrids?

    I'm asking for a mate who because of the ULEZ expansion will have to kiss goodbye to his beloved old Merc.
    New clean diesels are Ulez exempt – you don't need to buy a hybrid should you prefer an ICE.
    Yes, I'll probably get another (and final) ICE. Only true compelling reason I need a car is golf. Otherwise I could just do hire and uber and train/bus. Golf, you have to have your own car.
    "Golf, you have to have your own car."

    Really? Way back when, as a cab driver in Baton Rouge, used to take Japanese sailors from their merchant ships back & forth to local (municipal) golf courses.

    Also used to transport Norwegian sailors to & fro. NOT to golf courses, but in their case to a whorehouse just outside of town!
    That sounds like an interesting but stressful job. Did it send you a bit "Bickle"?
    Yes to the first bit. As to your question, please translate?
    Ah sorry. I meant De Niro in Taxi Driver. The iconic "Travis Bickle" character.
    Great film - De Niro at his best surely?
    My personal favorite De Niro performance is in "Analyze This"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp_0ChLUn3s
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQkpes3dgzg

    I actually quite like some of his later career 'switch-to-light-comedy' stuff (eg Meet The Parents) but the above - from "Taxi" - does take some beating.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,766

    MaxPB said:

    Just got my Covid Vaccine invitation via text! 💉😁

    Will be going tomorrow morning.

    38 years old, so into the thirties now.

    Not long now, and good to see there's available slots for first doses without any issues or waiting for a week.
    Indeed, I wasn't expecting to get my invite for a few more weeks.

    The link came with an address I could get the jab at, and an option to choose different times at different dates. I chose the first available slot at 9:10am tomorrow morning. No point dilly dallying.
    Beginning tomorrow we will be monitoring your post to see IF there are any signs of adverse reaction to the jab.

    My prognostication: the vac may make your posts even nuttier than per usual!

    [EDIT] Just kidding! (I think!!)
    Hehe. I think if the vaccine had been rolled out under a Labour government, rather than one led (and I use that word loosely) by his hero from Eton, Philip would have been a fully paid up Q-Anon antivaxer.
    Only because you're an illiterate fool who can't tell the difference.

    That you think that, despite my repeated unequivocal attacks on Trumpism, QAnon and anything like that, which others have said to you time and again too, just shows that you're an ignorant zealot yourself.

    You have never been able to see or show a single thing Trumpist about me. My philosophy isn't hidden, I want to see a liberal, small, Thatcherite English state. I would welcome anyone who wants to migrate to England to do so, so long as they can support themselves and pay taxes I'd be very happy to see immigration go up as long as they have no claim on benefits.

    What about that is Q?
    Philip, your attempts at insults are very funny. I am not sure how an illiterate fool would be able to write on here to either mock you (which let's face it is not that difficult), or to respond to your sixth-formesque debate positions.

    OK, so I will explain how I see strong parallels between you and Trump supporters. You call yourself a "libertarian" even though you are clearly confused over what one is; you describe yourself as a nationalist and say there is nothing wrong with populism. You are unable to cover your dislike of foreigners, particularly Europeans, and your clearly deranged obsession/hatred with/of the EU is very similar with Trumpists obsession with "World Government" through the UN. Add to that the fact that you spend a very unhealthy amount of time on here talking garbage on subjects you clearly have no experience of, I would not be at all surprised if you didn't believe in lizard people and various other conspiracy theories beloved by people who spend too much time online and hold to your extremist right wing views. You are simply an English version of malcolmg; not quite as incoherent or as angry, but certainly getting there. I rest my case.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited April 2021

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other country in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    I'd be pretty certain that if Scotland becomes independent that every UK citizen will become either an rUK or a Scottish citizen. Most will be simply allocated the new citizenship but some may well have a choice (e.g. born in England living in Scotland and vice versa). The relevant state will pay pensions of citizens independent of residence. If you are English in Scotland you may lose the right to vote (and vice versa) unless there is some agreement on this. Dual citizenship will no doubt be something that can be applied for but that doesn't confer or change pension rights as far as I know.

    Why wouldn't every person left in Scotland (and there would be a big exodus) not in that consideration then choose to have a rUk passport as it would assure you a pension.

    Would anyone give up their assured pension to have a vote in an Indy Scotland ?
    That is the 64 thousand Scottish Pound question. Will someone born in Scotland and living in Scotland be allowed to choose between Scottish and rUK citizenship? I rather think not. It will be messy and arbitrary. I doubt if everyone is going to get a choice. I was born in Scotland but live in England. If UK is destroyed the ramifications are going to be profound.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Alistair said:

    TimT said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    That would depend entirely on his status if he became a Scottish citizen it would be Scotland , etc, etc
    No, he's a Nigerian. Who is eligible for and receives a UK state pension due to his years of qualifying NIC payments. He is neither a Scottish nor British citizen.

    Who pays his UK state pension?
    As I said earlier, this is an obligation jointly assumed by all current UK citizens. The provenance going forward of jointly assumed obligations will no doubt be part of the complex divorce negotiations. It is naive to assume that all such jointly assumed obligations will be left entirely to rUK.
    Of course in reality there would be a negotiated settlement between rUK and Sco but there seems a great mant people on this board who don't understand how thr uk state pension works and don't realise that "being foreign" isn't a disqualifying criteria for receiving a UK state pension.

    And say things had went nuclear and we were looking at a hard divorce I do t think anyone on this board has been able to suggest how the law would be changed to stop Scottish pensioners receibging the UK state pensions without also stopping other foreign nationals receivong their obligate doe sion payments.
    I seriously doubt it would get to that pass. But presumably a simple amendment to the Act is not beyond the imagination of the powers in Westminster, one that would temporarily suspend payment of pensions to newly independent Scottish citizens resident in Scotland until conclusion of a comprehensive rUK-iS divorce agreement. That would focus minds.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    If he is an rUK citizen living in Scotland then he'll get it paid. If he is Scottish citizen then no.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    In this hypothetical scenario, has Scotland gone for a UDI without UK legislation that would determine how financial liabilities are divided?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,884

    The stark difference between Norway and Finland, and Sweden is profound.

    It is indeed. I applaud the Swedes for trying the other experiment, but by now it is clear it was the wrong approach.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    edited April 2021
    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19270556.john-curtice-polls-show-snp-independence-support-slipping/

    Professor JohnCurtice (for it is He) says that whilst SNP support is slipping, the Greens are romping along, so a majority of MSPs will support independence. Strap yourselves in - when HYUFD explodes as a result of Boris doing what he has endlessly said he won't do, it will be messy.

    Although I support Scottish independence, I think the funniest result "for the bantz" would be SNP minority, majority with Greens, second referendum occurs, second referendum goes No.
    That is actually my expected result - the issue needs to be laid to bed and the only way to do that is for the Scottish to see how much they are subsidised by the rest of the UK.

    Which I know is something that MalcolmG is going to argue isn't the case but the reality is the oil has gone and Scotland has little else...
    Don’t forget as well, rUK will be paying Scottish pensions in the event of indy
    More garbage, Scotland will pay its own pensions like normal countries, England will pay the debts it owes for the money people paid into their pension scam scheme or perhaps welch on their commitments.
    There are no such 'debts' owed by England other than to english people. The OAP doesn't work that way. Current Scots would pay Scottish pensions , etc
    The UK government guarantees to pay a state pension to anyone, UK citizen or not, that has made sufficient qualifying contributions.
    The clown just talks through his posterior. They are so ignorant due to their bigotry that they cannot even rationalise that if you have paid someone for a pension they cannot just dump you, pathetic.
    Except they're not dumping you, if you vote for independence then you're voting to dump them. Since pensions are PAYG, in the future Scottish taxes and Scottish pensions would be the responsibility of the Scottish state.

    Otherwise are you expecting to still be paying taxes to Westminster in the future?
    The British state currently, right this second, pays non-uk citizens who are not resident in the UK a British state pension.

    That's because the law says that anyone who has qualified for a state pension gets a state pension.

    These are people who are currently no contributing a single penny of tax to the UK exchequer.

    Now, non-residents do not get the annual _increases_ to the state pension - they get the pension at the level it was first awarded to them but that is the setup.
    Law? Which law? I mean this is really basic. Scotland would be outside of the UK for jurisdictional purposes. There's simply no way that and independent Scotland could count on the UK treasury for anything at all.
    The one's covering state pension eligibility? Based on how many years of qualifying NICs you have made?

    I mean this is really basic.

    Literally anyone in the world who has made sufficient NICs gets a UK state pen sion if they want one.
    Under what jurisdiction? UK law will no longer apply.
    So upon Scottish independence all British laws are rendered void?

    This is an exciting frontier of lawlessness we approach.
    In Scotland, yes. You wouldn't be in the UK any more. It's the whole point of independence.
    Cool, so we've established the UK government would still pay state pensions to Scottish people then as directed by the law.

    Bonza.
    No? You can lie to yourself about what independence entails if you want. Maybe it helps you sleep at night. The facts are that the UK government isn't going to be paying out for Scotland once it becomes independent. Pensions are part of that responsibility of being independent. If you don't like it maybe you've wasted the last 20 years of your life campaigning for it.
    Please describe the change in law the UK government would need to implement to stop paying uk state pensions to scots without also stopping paying the UK state pension to other foreign nationals.
    "If citizen is dual national Scotland/UK and was resident in Scotland at the time of independence they can no longer receive the state pension of the UK". I mean I do logic based querying all day, it's really not difficult.

    Again, you're voting for independence, what do you expect to happen? That the UK will continue to find Scotland forever and a day? Do you not realise what a vote loser that would be in England, Wales and NI for whichever party proposed that idea? Politically it would be impossible for either party to keep paying for Scotland post independence, therefore a solution such as the above will be implemented and anyone living in Scotland will be paid their pension in McPounds by Holyrood. It's not like they're not going to get a pension, it will just be funded by NI contributions in Scotland and paid for by the government of Scotland.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,756
    Preach sistah.

    https://twitter.com/LiamGaughan98/status/1388114992868777985?s=20

    Pretty sure it'll be a cold day in hell when someone from Dagenham with the surname Solomon joins the RF.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    It'd have to be the English Gov't paying the pension. By the same token someone who works in say Edinburgh and then moves to say Newcastle would be Scotland's responsibility.
    The interesting case is @RochdalePioneers of this parish. If he works the first 23 years of his working life in England and then a further 19 in Scotland who is responsible for his pension ?
  • Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    No I'm saying if Scotland walks away without agreeing to take on its fair share of net liabilities the RUK will have to prioritise its money, the money we would pay for Scottish pensions will be likely used to pay the liabilities as in 2014 I expect the UK government to say it will honour all UK debt payments if an independent Scotland will not.

    Those people in Scotland who aren't getting their pensions will have to take it up with the Scottish government.

    An independent Scotland doesn't get to pick and choose which liabilities the UK pays if you won't honour your side of the liabilities as well.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Alistair said:

    TimT said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    That would depend entirely on his status if he became a Scottish citizen it would be Scotland , etc, etc
    No, he's a Nigerian. Who is eligible for and receives a UK state pension due to his years of qualifying NIC payments. He is neither a Scottish nor British citizen.

    Who pays his UK state pension?
    As I said earlier, this is an obligation jointly assumed by all current UK citizens. The provenance going forward of jointly assumed obligations will no doubt be part of the complex divorce negotiations. It is naive to assume that all such jointly assumed obligations will be left entirely to rUK.
    Of course in reality there would be a negotiated settlement between rUK and Sco but there seems a great mant people on this board who don't understand how thr uk state pension works and don't realise that "being foreign" isn't a disqualifying criteria for receiving a UK state pension.

    And say things had went nuclear and we were looking at a hard divorce I do t think anyone on this board has been able to suggest how the law would be changed to stop Scottish pensioners receibging the UK state pensions without also stopping other foreign nationals receivong their obligate doe sion payments.
    Stop paying anyone paid from the Motherwell or Dundee Centres. Tell them to speak to the Scottish Government.

    Seems simple enough to me.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,300
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    Anywhere else in the world he moved to he wouldn't have been accruing a state pension. The pension system in this country is a national pension scheme, ie it's as much a Scottish pension as it is an English one or a Welsh one. Upon independence there will still be a joint responsibility between all four nations for the pensions accrued before independence. how that works out would be negotiated in the treaty and become law in all four nations upon ratification. The difference would start for people after independence and that would be the same situation as any other country.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    It'd have to be the English Gov't paying the pension. By the same token someone who works in say Edinburgh and then moves to say Newcastle would be Scotland's responsibility.
    The interesting case is @RochdalePioneers of this parish. If he works the first 23 years of his working life in England and then a further 19 in Scotland who is responsible for his pension ?
    The other thing is what happens if the rates of pension significantly diverge between RUK and an independent Scotland over the next few years.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Alistair said:

    TimT said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    That would depend entirely on his status if he became a Scottish citizen it would be Scotland , etc, etc
    No, he's a Nigerian. Who is eligible for and receives a UK state pension due to his years of qualifying NIC payments. He is neither a Scottish nor British citizen.

    Who pays his UK state pension?
    As I said earlier, this is an obligation jointly assumed by all current UK citizens. The provenance going forward of jointly assumed obligations will no doubt be part of the complex divorce negotiations. It is naive to assume that all such jointly assumed obligations will be left entirely to rUK.
    Of course in reality there would be a negotiated settlement between rUK and Sco but there seems a great mant people on this board who don't understand how thr uk state pension works and don't realise that "being foreign" isn't a disqualifying criteria for receiving a UK state pension.

    And say things had went nuclear and we were looking at a hard divorce I do t think anyone on this board has been able to suggest how the law would be changed to stop Scottish pensioners receibging the UK state pensions without also stopping other foreign nationals receivong their obligate doe sion payments.
    Stop paying anyone paid from the Motherwell or Dundee Centres. Tell them to speak to the Scottish Government.

    Seems simple enough to me.
    Public sector pensions as well, which will be a big one. The UK government will pass that liability on to the Scottish government for sure, just as the UK took the liability of UK citizens working for the EU.

    What the Nats don't see is that there's no votes in England, Wales and Northern Ireland for giving Scotland anything post independence. I mean they voted for independence so why should we? Just as the EU kept saying brexit means brexit (which I pointed out was fair at the time) indy means indy. There's no scenario where the UK treasury keeps these liabilities and pays pensions, grants or anything else post independence.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited April 2021
    spudgfsh said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    Anywhere else in the world he moved to he wouldn't have been accruing a state pension. The pension system in this country is a national pension scheme, ie it's as much a Scottish pension as it is an English one or a Welsh one. Upon independence there will still be a joint responsibility between all four nations for the pensions accrued before independence. how that works out would be negotiated in the treaty and become law in all four nations upon ratification. The difference would start for people after independence and that would be the same situation as any other country.
    Yes, this is correct !
    Trying to individually split everyone's source of NI contributions (And thus pension payment) would turn into a huge paperwork nightmare for both the rUK and Scottish Gov'ts. Scotland would have to take on a broad agreed share of the continual former UK payments.

    Edit: Key word "former"
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    That would depend entirely on his status if he became a Scottish citizen it would be Scotland , etc, etc
    No, he's a Nigerian. Who is eligible for and receives a UK state pension due to his years of qualifying NIC payments. He is neither a Scottish nor British citizen.

    Who pays his UK state pension?
    Yes I corrected later. One would expect as part of the negotiation that all those resident in either nation would be paid from that nation's pot. It is the only equitable solution. Just possible that for such examples it might be done pro rata which each nation paying a proportinate share. It clearly would not be the sole responsibility of the RUK to cover a commitment for which both nations share a level of responsibility.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    edited April 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    Anywhere else in the world he moved to he wouldn't have been accruing a state pension. The pension system in this country is a national pension scheme, ie it's as much a Scottish pension as it is an English one or a Welsh one. Upon independence there will still be a joint responsibility between all four nations for the pensions accrued before independence. how that works out would be negotiated in the treaty and become law in all four nations upon ratification. The difference would start for people after independence and that would be the same situation as any other country.
    Yes, this is correct !
    Trying to individually split everyone's source of NI contributions (And thus pension payment) would turn into a huge paperwork nightmare for both the rUK and Scottish Gov'ts. Scotland would have to take on a broad agreed share of the continual UK payments.
    Yes proportional to the number of surviving retirees in Scotland from pre-independence in any given year and payable in sterling, not whatever devalued currency of choice. So they'd better get on with raising foreign currency.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,756
    edited April 2021

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    Is there a form for applying for those blowjobs currently?

  • Actor Noel Clarke says he's deeply sorry for some of his actions and will seek professional help, but denies sexual misconduct

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-56948644
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19270556.john-curtice-polls-show-snp-independence-support-slipping/

    Professor JohnCurtice (for it is He) says that whilst SNP support is slipping, the Greens are romping along, so a majority of MSPs will support independence. Strap yourselves in - when HYUFD explodes as a result of Boris doing what he has endlessly said he won't do, it will be messy.

    Although I support Scottish independence, I think the funniest result "for the bantz" would be SNP minority, majority with Greens, second referendum occurs, second referendum goes No.
    That is actually my expected result - the issue needs to be laid to bed and the only way to do that is for the Scottish to see how much they are subsidised by the rest of the UK.

    Which I know is something that MalcolmG is going to argue isn't the case but the reality is the oil has gone and Scotland has little else...
    Don’t forget as well, rUK will be paying Scottish pensions in the event of indy
    More garbage, Scotland will pay its own pensions like normal countries, England will pay the debts it owes for the money people paid into their pension scam scheme or perhaps welch on their commitments.
    There are no such 'debts' owed by England other than to english people. The OAP doesn't work that way. Current Scots would pay Scottish pensions , etc
    The UK government guarantees to pay a state pension to anyone, UK citizen or not, that has made sufficient qualifying contributions.
    The clown just talks through his posterior. They are so ignorant due to their bigotry that they cannot even rationalise that if you have paid someone for a pension they cannot just dump you, pathetic.
    Except they're not dumping you, if you vote for independence then you're voting to dump them. Since pensions are PAYG, in the future Scottish taxes and Scottish pensions would be the responsibility of the Scottish state.

    Otherwise are you expecting to still be paying taxes to Westminster in the future?
    The British state currently, right this second, pays non-uk citizens who are not resident in the UK a British state pension.

    That's because the law says that anyone who has qualified for a state pension gets a state pension.

    These are people who are currently no contributing a single penny of tax to the UK exchequer.

    Now, non-residents do not get the annual _increases_ to the state pension - they get the pension at the level it was first awarded to them but that is the setup.
    Law? Which law? I mean this is really basic. Scotland would be outside of the UK for jurisdictional purposes. There's simply no way that and independent Scotland could count on the UK treasury for anything at all.
    The one's covering state pension eligibility? Based on how many years of qualifying NICs you have made?

    I mean this is really basic.

    Literally anyone in the world who has made sufficient NICs gets a UK state pen sion if they want one.
    Under what jurisdiction? UK law will no longer apply.
    So upon Scottish independence all British laws are rendered void?

    This is an exciting frontier of lawlessness we approach.
    In Scotland, yes. You wouldn't be in the UK any more. It's the whole point of independence.
    Cool, so we've established the UK government would still pay state pensions to Scottish people then as directed by the law.

    Bonza.
    It really wouldn't.
  • Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    Is there form for applying for those blowjobs currently?

    Not a form, but I can give you the mobile number of the Prime Minister and he can explain further.
  • My fellow cricket fans.

    Can you tell me what the hell I've just watched here?

    https://twitter.com/CrapCric/status/1388037564070875140
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243
    What about pensions of former Gurkhas, who move to John o'Groats after residing 30 years at Land's End, and have dual Paraguayan - Panamanian citizenship, but are married to a Pitcairn Islander?
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    What about pensions of former Gurkhas, who move to John o'Groats after residing 30 years at Land's End, and have dual Paraguayan - Panamanian citizenship, but are married to a Pitcairn Islander?

    Tibet pays
  • pingping Posts: 3,724
    edited April 2021

    Actor Noel Clarke says he's deeply sorry for some of his actions and will seek professional help, but denies sexual misconduct

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-56948644

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BDRrl1pq3I
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,926
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Jonathan said:

    Perhaps PB motorists can give me advice.

    The last car I owned was a 1967 Triumph Herald convertible. That was back in Auckland, when I was a student.

    Fast forward twenty odd years.

    I live in London Zone 2, with a driveway. I have two small kids. I would like a car for the wife to commute in, and for country trips on the weekend.

    I am not suffering a mid-life crisis and do not need a Ferrari. But I also hate cheap plasticky cars.

    What kind of car should I get?
    And, do I buy or lease?

    budget?
    I am not a car person; largely I regard them as frustrating opex rather than sensible capex.

    So, I am reasonable well off I suppose, but begrudge the cost I am likely to need to spend.

    Does that help?
    Seconded on a BMW X series (5 is the biggest, 3 is a smaller 5 and 1 is the SUV of the Touring). Or touring if you prefer closer to the ground and traditional rear wheel drive.

    But we are all skating on thin ice here once Dura comes on and spells out exactly what it is you actually do need.
    X7 is the largest BMW SUV. This discussion is like watching me try to opine on wine or coffee.
    What do you make of hybrids?

    I'm asking for a mate who because of the ULEZ expansion will have to kiss goodbye to his beloved old Merc.
    New clean diesels are Ulez exempt – you don't need to buy a hybrid should you prefer an ICE.
    Yes, I'll probably get another (and final) ICE. Only true compelling reason I need a car is golf. Otherwise I could just do hire and uber and train/bus. Golf, you have to have your own car.
    "Golf, you have to have your own car."

    Really? Way back when, as a cab driver in Baton Rouge, used to take Japanese sailors from their merchant ships back & forth to local (municipal) golf courses.

    Also used to transport Norwegian sailors to & fro. NOT to golf courses, but in their case to a whorehouse just outside of town!
    That sounds like an interesting but stressful job. Did it send you a bit "Bickle"?
    Yes to the first bit. As to your question, please translate?
    Ah sorry. I meant De Niro in Taxi Driver. The iconic "Travis Bickle" character.
    Great film - De Niro at his best surely?
    My personal favorite De Niro performance is in "Analyze This"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp_0ChLUn3s
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQkpes3dgzg

    I actually quite like some of his later career 'switch-to-light-comedy' stuff (eg Meet The Parents) but the above - from "Taxi" - does take some beating.
    Cape Fear:

    "I ain't no white trash piece of shit. I'm better than you all! I can out-learn you. I can out-read you. I can out-think you. And I can out-philosophize you. And I'm gonna outlast you. You think a couple whacks to my guts is gonna get me down? It's gonna take a hell of a lot more than that, Counsellor, to prove you're better than me!"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    Anywhere else in the world he moved to he wouldn't have been accruing a state pension. The pension system in this country is a national pension scheme, ie it's as much a Scottish pension as it is an English one or a Welsh one. Upon independence there will still be a joint responsibility between all four nations for the pensions accrued before independence. how that works out would be negotiated in the treaty and become law in all four nations upon ratification. The difference would start for people after independence and that would be the same situation as any other country.
    Yes, this is correct !
    Trying to individually split everyone's source of NI contributions (And thus pension payment) would turn into a huge paperwork nightmare for both the rUK and Scottish Gov'ts. Scotland would have to take on a broad agreed share of the continual UK payments.
    Yes proportional to the number of surviving retirees in Scotland from pre-independence in any given year and payable in sterling, not whatever devalued currency of choice. So they'd better get on with raising foreign currency.
    I'd have thought an independent Scotland would apply to join the Euro, and use sterling* (Like the Isle of Man does) in the meantime.
    Nevertheless negotiating the weeds of this sort of thing is going to make Brexit look like a walk in the park.

    * Definitely a negotiating weed betwixt Edinburgh and London.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,156

    I'd be pretty certain that if Scotland becomes independent that every UK citizen will become either an rUK or a Scottish citizen. Most will be simply allocated the new citizenship but some may well have a choice (e.g. born in England living in Scotland and vice versa). The relevant state will pay pensions of citizens independent of residence. If you are English in Scotland you may lose the right to vote (and vice versa) unless there is some agreement on this. Dual citizenship will no doubt be something that can be applied for but that doesn't confer or change pension rights as far as I know.

    Why wouldn't every person left in Scotland (and there would be a big exodus) not in that consideration then choose to have a rUk passport as it would assure you a pension.

    Would anyone give up their assured pension to have a vote in an Indy Scotland ?
    That is the 64 thousand Scottish Pound question. Will someone born in Scotland and living in Scotland be allowed to choose between Scottish and rUK citizenship? I rather think not. It will be messy and arbitrary. I doubt if everyone is going to get a choice. I was born in Scotland but live in England. If UK is destroyed the ramifications are going to be profound.
    On voting - IIRC voting from an overseas [sic] country in the UK depends on the original constituency of residence, as well as of course being a UK subject of HMtQ,

    I have not been resident in any constituency in rUK for 30 years (or whatever is the qualifying period). Ergo I have no residual rights to vote in England.

    RP has been resident in Rochdale or wherever it was until less than a year ago. He has 29 years more voting in that coinstituency even if Scotland were to go independent tomorrow, unless of course he repudiates his rUK subject status. Just like a UK subject living in Spain or Somalia.




  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    edited April 2021
    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    malcolmg said:

    eek said:

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19270556.john-curtice-polls-show-snp-independence-support-slipping/

    Professor JohnCurtice (for it is He) says that whilst SNP support is slipping, the Greens are romping along, so a majority of MSPs will support independence. Strap yourselves in - when HYUFD explodes as a result of Boris doing what he has endlessly said he won't do, it will be messy.

    Although I support Scottish independence, I think the funniest result "for the bantz" would be SNP minority, majority with Greens, second referendum occurs, second referendum goes No.
    That is actually my expected result - the issue needs to be laid to bed and the only way to do that is for the Scottish to see how much they are subsidised by the rest of the UK.

    Which I know is something that MalcolmG is going to argue isn't the case but the reality is the oil has gone and Scotland has little else...
    Don’t forget as well, rUK will be paying Scottish pensions in the event of indy
    More garbage, Scotland will pay its own pensions like normal countries, England will pay the debts it owes for the money people paid into their pension scam scheme or perhaps welch on their commitments.
    There are no such 'debts' owed by England other than to english people. The OAP doesn't work that way. Current Scots would pay Scottish pensions , etc
    The UK government guarantees to pay a state pension to anyone, UK citizen or not, that has made sufficient qualifying contributions.
    The clown just talks through his posterior. They are so ignorant due to their bigotry that they cannot even rationalise that if you have paid someone for a pension they cannot just dump you, pathetic.
    Except they're not dumping you, if you vote for independence then you're voting to dump them. Since pensions are PAYG, in the future Scottish taxes and Scottish pensions would be the responsibility of the Scottish state.

    Otherwise are you expecting to still be paying taxes to Westminster in the future?
    The British state currently, right this second, pays non-uk citizens who are not resident in the UK a British state pension.

    That's because the law says that anyone who has qualified for a state pension gets a state pension.

    These are people who are currently no contributing a single penny of tax to the UK exchequer.

    Now, non-residents do not get the annual _increases_ to the state pension - they get the pension at the level it was first awarded to them but that is the setup.
    Law? Which law? I mean this is really basic. Scotland would be outside of the UK for jurisdictional purposes. There's simply no way that and independent Scotland could count on the UK treasury for anything at all.
    The one's covering state pension eligibility? Based on how many years of qualifying NICs you have made?

    I mean this is really basic.

    Literally anyone in the world who has made sufficient NICs gets a UK state pen sion if they want one.
    Under what jurisdiction? UK law will no longer apply.
    So upon Scottish independence all British laws are rendered void?

    This is an exciting frontier of lawlessness we approach.
    In Scotland, yes. You wouldn't be in the UK any more. It's the whole point of independence.
    Cool, so we've established the UK government would still pay state pensions to Scottish people then as directed by the law.

    Bonza.
    That's what I think too. As long as you agree that annual build-up entitlement stops the moment Scotland leaves the UK, and when the UK state pension is paid to a Scot it will probably not be subject to annual indexation.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243
    ping said:

    Actor Noel Clarke says he's deeply sorry for some of his actions and will seek professional help, but denies sexual misconduct

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-56948644

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BDRrl1pq3I
    Are you sure your NOT talking about Matt Gaetz? OR maybe Andrew Cuomo?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Alistair said:

    TimT said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    That would depend entirely on his status if he became a Scottish citizen it would be Scotland , etc, etc
    No, he's a Nigerian. Who is eligible for and receives a UK state pension due to his years of qualifying NIC payments. He is neither a Scottish nor British citizen.

    Who pays his UK state pension?
    As I said earlier, this is an obligation jointly assumed by all current UK citizens. The provenance going forward of jointly assumed obligations will no doubt be part of the complex divorce negotiations. It is naive to assume that all such jointly assumed obligations will be left entirely to rUK.
    Of course in reality there would be a negotiated settlement between rUK and Sco but there seems a great mant people on this board who don't understand how thr uk state pension works and don't realise that "being foreign" isn't a disqualifying criteria for receiving a UK state pension.

    And say things had went nuclear and we were looking at a hard divorce I do t think anyone on this board has been able to suggest how the law would be changed to stop Scottish pensioners receibging the UK state pensions without also stopping other foreign nationals receivong their obligate doe sion payments.
    There is no obligation to keep paying pensions to people once they leave the country. Generally the UK government does - although it does not always uprate. However, they are not legally obliged to do so and in the case of 5m Scots they clearly would not do so. They would become the responsibility of a Scottish government. It's the essence of independence.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    If he is an rUK citizen living in Scotland then he'll get it paid. If he is Scottish citizen then no.
    He is neither. He's a Nigerian citizen. As I have been explaining being a UK national is not a qualifying criteria to receiving a UK state pension. Any nationality on the planet can receive a UK state pension.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    The Nats are dangerously close to "make Mexico pay for the wall" level with this rubbish.

    I guess it just speaks to their insecurities that they think they'll need the UK treasury to keep funding them after independence and are clearly absolutely shit scared that this won't be the case.
  • The UK state pension is a contributary system, payable out of the National Insurance Fund. To get a full state pension (post April 2016 changes) you need to have 30 years of contributions (or credits). There is a separate fund, and a separate state pension legislation for Northern Ireland, so it should be easier to disentangle if Northern Ireland was to leave the UK.

    However, there is only a single National Insurance Fund for England, Scotland and Wales. So if Scotland became independent there would need to be a negotiation as to how historic national insurance contributions/credits should entitle an individual to a Scottish or rUK state pension and how the NIF should be split. There is little consideration of residence or citizenship of an individual at present (except for uprating of pensions for certain non UK resident pensioners).

    It would seem appropriate for an individual with, say, 20 years of contributions as a result of working in Scotland and 10 years of contributions as a result of working in England to have 2/3 of their pension paid by a new Scottish NIF, and 1/3 paid by a new E&W NIF (and consequently funded by current tax payers in those jurisdictions). But that would be part of the detailed negotiations.

    As the NIF funds current state pensions out of current contributions there are no investments to support future state pension payments, so spliting the NIF itself is unlikely to be too difficult.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    My fellow cricket fans.

    Can you tell me what the hell I've just watched here?

    https://twitter.com/CrapCric/status/1388037564070875140

    LOLz. Missing the stumps twice! Missing that the fielder missed the stumps twice!!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,156
    eek said:

    What about pensions of former Gurkhas, who move to John o'Groats after residing 30 years at Land's End, and have dual Paraguayan - Panamanian citizenship, but are married to a Pitcairn Islander?

    Tibet pays
    Yopu forgot to specify whether UK OAP, or UK military service pension, or private pensions.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    My fellow cricket fans.

    Can you tell me what the hell I've just watched here?

    https://twitter.com/CrapCric/status/1388037564070875140

    Batters, bowlers, and outs.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,082
    Not sure if this has been commented on:

    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/30/figures-on-covid-deaths-post-jab-show-vaccines-success-scientists-say?__twitter_impression=true

    The article is a bit unclear, but I would interpret this as 3 weeks post first jab: "A total of 526 patients out of 52,000 (1%) had been vaccinated more than three weeks before they developed Covid symptoms and were hospitalised. Of those, 113 died."
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,300

    I'd be pretty certain that if Scotland becomes independent that every UK citizen will become either an rUK or a Scottish citizen. Most will be simply allocated the new citizenship but some may well have a choice (e.g. born in England living in Scotland and vice versa). The relevant state will pay pensions of citizens independent of residence. If you are English in Scotland you may lose the right to vote (and vice versa) unless there is some agreement on this. Dual citizenship will no doubt be something that can be applied for but that doesn't confer or change pension rights as far as I know.

    Why wouldn't every person left in Scotland (and there would be a big exodus) not in that consideration then choose to have a rUk passport as it would assure you a pension.

    Would anyone give up their assured pension to have a vote in an Indy Scotland ?
    That is the 64 thousand Scottish Pound question. Will someone born in Scotland and living in Scotland be allowed to choose between Scottish and rUK citizenship? I rather think not. It will be messy and arbitrary. I doubt if everyone is going to get a choice. I was born in Scotland but live in England. If UK is destroyed the ramifications are going to be profound.
    There is precedence here with Hong Kong. People born in Hong Kong before 1997 are entitled to the emergency passport system that was set up but people born after Hong Kong was handed back to China are not. it would have to be negotiated but would probably work in a similar manner
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,756
    Slight restraining order not to come within 12 feet vibe

    https://twitter.com/seanbaillie9/status/1388134453080469508?s=20
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    Anywhere else in the world he moved to he wouldn't have been accruing a state pension. The pension system in this country is a national pension scheme, ie it's as much a Scottish pension as it is an English one or a Welsh one. Upon independence there will still be a joint responsibility between all four nations for the pensions accrued before independence. how that works out would be negotiated in the treaty and become law in all four nations upon ratification. The difference would start for people after independence and that would be the same situation as any other country.
    Yes, this is correct !
    Trying to individually split everyone's source of NI contributions (And thus pension payment) would turn into a huge paperwork nightmare for both the rUK and Scottish Gov'ts. Scotland would have to take on a broad agreed share of the continual UK payments.
    Yes proportional to the number of surviving retirees in Scotland from pre-independence in any given year and payable in sterling, not whatever devalued currency of choice. So they'd better get on with raising foreign currency.
    Pensions accrued up to the date of independence could be paid from a joint fund which the Scottish and English governments pay into on the basis of how many pensioners are registered in each country for tax purposes.
    The problem for the Scots, is it would be a considerable financial Burdon for them to match English pensions after they stop getting Barnet Formula money and they would have to tax these pensions in order to afford them.
  • UPDATE : Poots looks like a forgone conclusion with a few endorsements today but the value is well and truly gone.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243

    My fellow cricket fans.

    Can you tell me what the hell I've just watched here?

    https://twitter.com/CrapCric/status/1388037564070875140

    Not a cricket fan per se, but looks like what used to be called way-back-when a Chinese Fire Drill.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    No I'm saying if Scotland walks away without agreeing to take on its fair share of net liabilities the RUK will have to prioritise its money, the money we would pay for Scottish pensions will be likely used to pay the liabilities as in 2014 I expect the UK government to say it will honour all UK debt payments if an independent Scotland will not.

    Those people in Scotland who aren't getting their pensions will have to take it up with the Scottish government.

    An independent Scotland doesn't get to pick and choose which liabilities the UK pays if you won't honour your side of the liabilities as well.
    How do you determine who you are not going to pay pensions to?
  • MaxPB said:

    The Nats are dangerously close to "make Mexico pay for the wall" level with this rubbish.

    I guess it just speaks to their insecurities that they think they'll need the UK treasury to keep funding them after independence and are clearly absolutely shit scared that this won't be the case.

    They went past that in 2014 when they said an independent Scotland would have the power to tell the Governor of the Bank of England what monetary policy to follow.

    They neglected to answer the following questions

    1) Currently only the Chancellor of the Exchequer can set targets for the Governor, it would be unlawful to follow direction from anybody else, so how does an independent Scotland get around that?

    and

    2) What happens if they do get around 1) and an independent Scotland has different policy targets for the Governor to the RUK, such as interest rates and inflation targets?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243

    UPDATE : Poots looks like a forgone conclusion with a few endorsements today but the value is well and truly gone.

    So who's in cahoots with Poots?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,156
    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    TimT said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    That would depend entirely on his status if he became a Scottish citizen it would be Scotland , etc, etc
    No, he's a Nigerian. Who is eligible for and receives a UK state pension due to his years of qualifying NIC payments. He is neither a Scottish nor British citizen.

    Who pays his UK state pension?
    As I said earlier, this is an obligation jointly assumed by all current UK citizens. The provenance going forward of jointly assumed obligations will no doubt be part of the complex divorce negotiations. It is naive to assume that all such jointly assumed obligations will be left entirely to rUK.
    Of course in reality there would be a negotiated settlement between rUK and Sco but there seems a great mant people on this board who don't understand how thr uk state pension works and don't realise that "being foreign" isn't a disqualifying criteria for receiving a UK state pension.

    And say things had went nuclear and we were looking at a hard divorce I do t think anyone on this board has been able to suggest how the law would be changed to stop Scottish pensioners receibging the UK state pensions without also stopping other foreign nationals receivong their obligate doe sion payments.
    Stop paying anyone paid from the Motherwell or Dundee Centres. Tell them to speak to the Scottish Government.

    Seems simple enough to me.
    Public sector pensions as well, which will be a big one. The UK government will pass that liability on to the Scottish government for sure, just as the UK took the liability of UK citizens working for the EU.

    What the Nats don't see is that there's no votes in England, Wales and Northern Ireland for giving Scotland anything post independence. I mean they voted for independence so why should we? Just as the EU kept saying brexit means brexit (which I pointed out was fair at the time) indy means indy. There's no scenario where the UK treasury keeps these liabilities and pays pensions, grants or anything else post independence.
    Public sector pensions are already separate for local government, police, fire, NHS, etc. It's the civil service pension scheme proper that is still a UK thing.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    Anywhere else in the world he moved to he wouldn't have been accruing a state pension. The pension system in this country is a national pension scheme, ie it's as much a Scottish pension as it is an English one or a Welsh one. Upon independence there will still be a joint responsibility between all four nations for the pensions accrued before independence. how that works out would be negotiated in the treaty and become law in all four nations upon ratification. The difference would start for people after independence and that would be the same situation as any other country.
    Yes, this is correct !
    Trying to individually split everyone's source of NI contributions (And thus pension payment) would turn into a huge paperwork nightmare for both the rUK and Scottish Gov'ts. Scotland would have to take on a broad agreed share of the continual UK payments.
    Yes proportional to the number of surviving retirees in Scotland from pre-independence in any given year and payable in sterling, not whatever devalued currency of choice. So they'd better get on with raising foreign currency.
    I'd have thought an independent Scotland would apply to join the Euro, and use sterling* (Like the Isle of Man does) in the meantime.
    Nevertheless negotiating the weeds of this sort of thing is going to make Brexit look like a walk in the park.

    * Definitely a negotiating weed betwixt Edinburgh and London.
    The only way Scotland keeps sterling is if they do it unilaterally. There's no way that the UK government will agree to a monetary union without basically an even bigger say over how Scotland is run than it has now. Imagine the BoE running a QE programme like the ECB that had to include Scotland. The idea is ridiculous.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243
    edited April 2021
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    What about pensions of former Gurkhas, who move to John o'Groats after residing 30 years at Land's End, and have dual Paraguayan - Panamanian citizenship, but are married to a Pitcairn Islander?

    Tibet pays
    Yopu forgot to specify whether UK OAP, or UK military service pension, or private pensions.
    In this hypothetical (?) all of the above.

    Oh, and forgot to mention the subject is a left-handed transvestite baronet. If that matters.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    What I'm getting at with my tesiously repetitive questions is that people seem to think this pension thing is simple, in either a negotiated or nuclear divorce, and it is really, really not simple.

    The UK state pension obligation is a world wide right as it currently stands.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,626
    UK cases by specimen date

    image
  • Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    No I'm saying if Scotland walks away without agreeing to take on its fair share of net liabilities the RUK will have to prioritise its money, the money we would pay for Scottish pensions will be likely used to pay the liabilities as in 2014 I expect the UK government to say it will honour all UK debt payments if an independent Scotland will not.

    Those people in Scotland who aren't getting their pensions will have to take it up with the Scottish government.

    An independent Scotland doesn't get to pick and choose which liabilities the UK pays if you won't honour your side of the liabilities as well.
    How do you determine who you are not going to pay pensions to?
    Are you currently resident in a country that has just walked away from their share of their UK net liabilties?

    Yes - RUK isn't paying your pension

    No - RUK will continue to pay your pension
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,626
    UK case summary

    image
    image
    image
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,243

    Slight restraining order not to come within 12 feet vibe

    https://twitter.com/seanbaillie9/status/1388134453080469508?s=20

    "My dear, have you had your Christmas goose?"
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,626
    UK hospitals

    image
    image
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Alistair said:

    What I'm getting at with my tesiously repetitive questions is that people seem to think this pension thing is simple, in either a negotiated or nuclear divorce, and it is really, really not simple.

    The UK state pension obligation is a world wide right as it currently stands.

    Accrued UK pension will continue to be a Scottish, Welsh, English and Northern Irish obligation after independence, hence the need to agree a split.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,756
    eek said:

    What about pensions of former Gurkhas, who move to John o'Groats after residing 30 years at Land's End, and have dual Paraguayan - Panamanian citizenship, but are married to a Pitcairn Islander?

    Tibet pays
    Tibet? Is the PRC aware of this?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    Slight restraining order not to come within 12 feet vibe

    https://twitter.com/seanbaillie9/status/1388134453080469508?s=20

    I was thinking more the demonic entity from It Follows.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,626
    UK deaths

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,626
    UK R

    image
    image
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MaxPB said:

    Alistair said:

    TimT said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    That would depend entirely on his status if he became a Scottish citizen it would be Scotland , etc, etc
    No, he's a Nigerian. Who is eligible for and receives a UK state pension due to his years of qualifying NIC payments. He is neither a Scottish nor British citizen.

    Who pays his UK state pension?
    As I said earlier, this is an obligation jointly assumed by all current UK citizens. The provenance going forward of jointly assumed obligations will no doubt be part of the complex divorce negotiations. It is naive to assume that all such jointly assumed obligations will be left entirely to rUK.
    Of course in reality there would be a negotiated settlement between rUK and Sco but there seems a great mant people on this board who don't understand how thr uk state pension works and don't realise that "being foreign" isn't a disqualifying criteria for receiving a UK state pension.

    And say things had went nuclear and we were looking at a hard divorce I do t think anyone on this board has been able to suggest how the law would be changed to stop Scottish pensioners receibging the UK state pensions without also stopping other foreign nationals receivong their obligate doe sion payments.
    Stop paying anyone paid from the Motherwell or Dundee Centres. Tell them to speak to the Scottish Government.

    Seems simple enough to me.
    Public sector pensions as well, which will be a big one. The UK government will pass that liability on to the Scottish government for sure, just as the UK took the liability of UK citizens working for the EU.

    What the Nats don't see is that there's no votes in England, Wales and Northern Ireland for giving Scotland anything post independence. I mean they voted for independence so why should we? Just as the EU kept saying brexit means brexit (which I pointed out was fair at the time) indy means indy. There's no scenario where the UK treasury keeps these liabilities and pays pensions, grants or anything else post independence.
    Of course, the day after a Yes vote it's a case of Independence Means Independence.

    And I agree that's entirely fair. Never had an issue with the UK settling it's divorce issues.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,626
    Age related data

    image
    image
    image
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,856

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Jonathan said:

    Perhaps PB motorists can give me advice.

    The last car I owned was a 1967 Triumph Herald convertible. That was back in Auckland, when I was a student.

    Fast forward twenty odd years.

    I live in London Zone 2, with a driveway. I have two small kids. I would like a car for the wife to commute in, and for country trips on the weekend.

    I am not suffering a mid-life crisis and do not need a Ferrari. But I also hate cheap plasticky cars.

    What kind of car should I get?
    And, do I buy or lease?

    budget?
    I am not a car person; largely I regard them as frustrating opex rather than sensible capex.

    So, I am reasonable well off I suppose, but begrudge the cost I am likely to need to spend.

    Does that help?
    Seconded on a BMW X series (5 is the biggest, 3 is a smaller 5 and 1 is the SUV of the Touring). Or touring if you prefer closer to the ground and traditional rear wheel drive.

    But we are all skating on thin ice here once Dura comes on and spells out exactly what it is you actually do need.
    X7 is the largest BMW SUV. This discussion is like watching me try to opine on wine or coffee.
    What do you make of hybrids?

    I'm asking for a mate who because of the ULEZ expansion will have to kiss goodbye to his beloved old Merc.
    New clean diesels are Ulez exempt – you don't need to buy a hybrid should you prefer an ICE.
    Yes, I'll probably get another (and final) ICE. Only true compelling reason I need a car is golf. Otherwise I could just do hire and uber and train/bus. Golf, you have to have your own car.
    "Golf, you have to have your own car."

    Really? Way back when, as a cab driver in Baton Rouge, used to take Japanese sailors from their merchant ships back & forth to local (municipal) golf courses.

    Also used to transport Norwegian sailors to & fro. NOT to golf courses, but in their case to a whorehouse just outside of town!
    That sounds like an interesting but stressful job. Did it send you a bit "Bickle"?
    Yes to the first bit. As to your question, please translate?
    Ah sorry. I meant De Niro in Taxi Driver. The iconic "Travis Bickle" character.
    Great film - De Niro at his best surely?
    My personal favorite De Niro performance is in "Analyze This"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp_0ChLUn3s
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQkpes3dgzg

    I actually quite like some of his later career 'switch-to-light-comedy' stuff (eg Meet The Parents) but the above - from "Taxi" - does take some beating.
    Cape Fear:

    "I ain't no white trash piece of shit. I'm better than you all! I can out-learn you. I can out-read you. I can out-think you. And I can out-philosophize you. And I'm gonna outlast you. You think a couple whacks to my guts is gonna get me down? It's gonna take a hell of a lot more than that, Counsellor, to prove you're better than me!"
    Sounds like Steve Bannon.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,626
    Age related data scaled to 100K population

    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,626
    UK vaccinations

    image
    image
    image
    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,626
    CFR

    image
    image
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    So what does a Poots leadership mean for the Northern Ireland Assembly vote in ‘22?
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,300
    Alistair said:

    What I'm getting at with my tesiously repetitive questions is that people seem to think this pension thing is simple, in either a negotiated or nuclear divorce, and it is really, really not simple.

    The UK state pension obligation is a world wide right as it currently stands.

    as with any pension, ongoing responsibility for it will remain for all parties signed up to it. Independence doesn't change that. there are complex details of edge cases which would need to be resolved but there would be a joint financial responsibility to all members of the pension for the governments all of member countries. The complexity comes, not with existing pensioners, but when people become eligible to retire and claim from the fund. There are ways to resolve this but it'd need to be negotiated.

    Note: there is no actual fund, the NI money goes straight into general taxation which makes it a defined benefit pension not a defined contribution. future taxpayers of rUK and iScot would be liable to fund the pensions (and would happily do so if they were reasonable).
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    No I'm saying if Scotland walks away without agreeing to take on its fair share of net liabilities the RUK will have to prioritise its money, the money we would pay for Scottish pensions will be likely used to pay the liabilities as in 2014 I expect the UK government to say it will honour all UK debt payments if an independent Scotland will not.

    Those people in Scotland who aren't getting their pensions will have to take it up with the Scottish government.

    An independent Scotland doesn't get to pick and choose which liabilities the UK pays if you won't honour your side of the liabilities as well.
    How do you determine who you are not going to pay pensions to?
    Are you currently resident in a country that has just walked away from their share of their UK net liabilties?

    Yes - RUK isn't paying your pension

    No - RUK will continue to pay your pension
    This might sound sarcastic but genuinely thank you for being the only person who is clear in what you would do.
  • Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    No I'm saying if Scotland walks away without agreeing to take on its fair share of net liabilities the RUK will have to prioritise its money, the money we would pay for Scottish pensions will be likely used to pay the liabilities as in 2014 I expect the UK government to say it will honour all UK debt payments if an independent Scotland will not.

    Those people in Scotland who aren't getting their pensions will have to take it up with the Scottish government.

    An independent Scotland doesn't get to pick and choose which liabilities the UK pays if you won't honour your side of the liabilities as well.
    How do you determine who you are not going to pay pensions to?
    Are you currently resident in a country that has just walked away from their share of their UK net liabilties?

    Yes - RUK isn't paying your pension

    No - RUK will continue to pay your pension
    This might sound sarcastic but genuinely thank you for being the only person who is clear in what you would do.
    It's not what I would do but it is what I expect a RUK government to do.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,775
    TimT said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    That would depend entirely on his status if he became a Scottish citizen it would be Scotland , etc, etc
    No, he's a Nigerian. Who is eligible for and receives a UK state pension due to his years of qualifying NIC payments. He is neither a Scottish nor British citizen.

    Who pays his UK state pension?
    As I said earlier, this is an obligation jointly assumed by all current UK citizens. The provenance going forward of jointly assumed obligations will no doubt be part of the complex divorce negotiations. It is naive to assume that all such jointly assumed obligations will be left entirely to rUK.
    This is the crucial point. It's not the case that - if one part of the UK splits off - that it keeps its share of the assets but loses the liabilities.

    The reality is that it would be a part of the negotiation, just as pensions for Eurocrats were part of the negotiations between the EU and the UK.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,461
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    No I'm saying if Scotland walks away without agreeing to take on its fair share of net liabilities the RUK will have to prioritise its money, the money we would pay for Scottish pensions will be likely used to pay the liabilities as in 2014 I expect the UK government to say it will honour all UK debt payments if an independent Scotland will not.

    Those people in Scotland who aren't getting their pensions will have to take it up with the Scottish government.

    An independent Scotland doesn't get to pick and choose which liabilities the UK pays if you won't honour your side of the liabilities as well.
    How do you determine who you are not going to pay pensions to?
    Are you currently resident in a country that has just walked away from their share of their UK net liabilties?

    Yes - RUK isn't paying your pension

    No - RUK will continue to pay your pension
    This might sound sarcastic but genuinely thank you for being the only person who is clear in what you would do.
    I am about as far from an English nationalist as you will find. If in the first rUK election the only party saying rUK should not pay Scottish pensions for free is an English nationalist party, even I will vote for them ahead of the mainstream parties. There is zero chance, literally zero, that rUK voters will accept what you are suggesting.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100
    edited April 2021

    We are can't take a stance or join a lobbying campaign, but we are taking a stance....

    The BBC as a corporation cannot take part in the campaign. We have special duties that don't apply to other organisations under our Royal Charter and editorial guidelines that prevent us from joining lobbying campaigns. So while we have firm policies to deal with online abuse, the corporation cannot join a lobbying campaign no matter how worthy the cause.

    This does not mean that the BBC is neutral on issues such as racism or hate crime. They are abhorrent.

    Man Utd vs Liverpool this weekend too.

    Something tells me the fans of the winning club will not stay quiet on social media.
    I think as ever the question is that the definitions are on wheels.

    Especially concerning such as 'hate incidents', the new law that has just passed, or the one that the SNP aspired(?) to pass.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    A Nigerian qualifies for a UK state pension having worked in London for 30 years and has recently retired and moved to Edinburgh.

    Scotland becomes independent.

    Who pays his future pension liability?

    Who pays if he then moves to New York?

    You know some of your fellow Nats, such as MalcolmG, have said if as part of the Scexit divorce deal Scotland doesn't get a fair deal in their eyes then an iScot are not taking on any liabilities, this is corollary of that.

    The RUK will say well if you won't honour your debts then we won't honour our debts to you.
    So you are going with the rUK stopping paying the Nigerian's pension then?
    It is a risk for him but he can easily move back to the RUK and get his pension paid that way.

    Scottish independence means Scottish independence.

    You Scot Nats are like the Brexiteers, you think after the divorce the wife is still going to give you a blowjob every day after the divorce. Ain't happening.
    So you are proposing the law is changed to not pay a pension to anyone who's address is in Scotland?

    So if he moves to any other cpu try in the world he gets his UK state pension but not if he is in Scotland? Is that your proposed change?
    No I'm saying if Scotland walks away without agreeing to take on its fair share of net liabilities the RUK will have to prioritise its money, the money we would pay for Scottish pensions will be likely used to pay the liabilities as in 2014 I expect the UK government to say it will honour all UK debt payments if an independent Scotland will not.

    Those people in Scotland who aren't getting their pensions will have to take it up with the Scottish government.

    An independent Scotland doesn't get to pick and choose which liabilities the UK pays if you won't honour your side of the liabilities as well.
    How do you determine who you are not going to pay pensions to?
    Are you currently resident in a country that has just walked away from their share of their UK net liabilties?

    Yes - RUK isn't paying your pension

    No - RUK will continue to pay your pension
    This might sound sarcastic but genuinely thank you for being the only person who is clear in what you would do.
    It's not what I would do but it is what I expect a RUK government to do.
    Would it apply to rUK citizens who move to Scotland?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100

    Alistair said:

    What I'm getting at with my tesiously repetitive questions is that people seem to think this pension thing is simple, in either a negotiated or nuclear divorce, and it is really, really not simple.

    The UK state pension obligation is a world wide right as it currently stands.

    "As it currently stands". You are calling for massive change. Fine, no problem with Scottish independence if the voters want it. But please don't expect and vote for Scottish independence and expect things to stay as they currently stand.
    Presumably iScotGov will do the same for any Scots who live anywhere else in the world.
  • Alistair said:

    Would it apply to rUK citizens who move to Scotland?

    More than likely, especially likely for those who move to Scotland after the Indyref2 vote.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094

    Actor Noel Clarke says he's deeply sorry for some of his actions and will seek professional help, but denies sexual misconduct

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-56948644

    The point you reach when you realise that the volume of accusations makes denying them all a sub optimal response.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094

    MaxPB said:

    Just got my Covid Vaccine invitation via text! 💉😁

    Will be going tomorrow morning.

    38 years old, so into the thirties now.

    Not long now, and good to see there's available slots for first doses without any issues or waiting for a week.
    Indeed, I wasn't expecting to get my invite for a few more weeks.

    The link came with an address I could get the jab at, and an option to choose different times at different dates. I chose the first available slot at 9:10am tomorrow morning. No point dilly dallying.
    Beginning tomorrow we will be monitoring your post to see IF there are any signs of adverse reaction to the jab.

    My prognostication: the vac may make your posts even nuttier than per usual!

    [EDIT] Just kidding! (I think!!)
    Hehe. I think if the vaccine had been rolled out under a Labour government, rather than one led (and I use that word loosely) by his hero from Eton, Philip would have been a fully paid up Q-Anon antivaxer.
    Only because you're an illiterate fool who can't tell the difference.

    That you think that, despite my repeated unequivocal attacks on Trumpism, QAnon and anything like that, which others have said to you time and again too, just shows that you're an ignorant zealot yourself.

    You have never been able to see or show a single thing Trumpist about me. My philosophy isn't hidden, I want to see a liberal, small, Thatcherite English state. I would welcome anyone who wants to migrate to England to do so, so long as they can support themselves and pay taxes I'd be very happy to see immigration go up as long as they have no claim on benefits.

    What about that is Q?
    Philip, your attempts at insults are very funny. I am not sure how an illiterate fool would be able to write on here to either mock you (which let's face it is not that difficult), or to respond to your sixth-formesque debate positions.

    OK, so I will explain how I see strong parallels between you and Trump supporters. You call yourself a "libertarian" even though you are clearly confused over what one is; you describe yourself as a nationalist and say there is nothing wrong with populism. You are unable to cover your dislike of foreigners, particularly Europeans, and your clearly deranged obsession/hatred with/of the EU is very similar with Trumpists obsession with "World Government" through the UN. Add to that the fact that you spend a very unhealthy amount of time on here talking garbage on subjects you clearly have no experience of, I would not be at all surprised if you didn't believe in lizard people and various other conspiracy theories beloved by people who spend too much time online and hold to your extremist right wing views. You are simply an English version of malcolmg; not quite as incoherent or as angry, but certainly getting there. I rest my case.
    Philip is surely proof that fools don’t always have to be illiterate?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,926

    UPDATE : Poots looks like a forgone conclusion with a few endorsements today but the value is well and truly gone.

    So who's in cahoots with Poots?
    Winnie the Poots!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100
    felix said:
    Mr Starmer is the only one of the three punching himself in the face, I notice.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    MaxPB said:

    Just got my Covid Vaccine invitation via text! 💉😁

    Will be going tomorrow morning.

    38 years old, so into the thirties now.

    Not long now, and good to see there's available slots for first doses without any issues or waiting for a week.
    Indeed, I wasn't expecting to get my invite for a few more weeks.

    The link came with an address I could get the jab at, and an option to choose different times at different dates. I chose the first available slot at 9:10am tomorrow morning. No point dilly dallying.
    Beginning tomorrow we will be monitoring your post to see IF there are any signs of adverse reaction to the jab.

    My prognostication: the vac may make your posts even nuttier than per usual!

    [EDIT] Just kidding! (I think!!)
    Hehe. I think if the vaccine had been rolled out under a Labour government, rather than one led (and I use that word loosely) by his hero from Eton, Philip would have been a fully paid up Q-Anon antivaxer.
    Only because you're an illiterate fool who can't tell the difference.

    That you think that, despite my repeated unequivocal attacks on Trumpism, QAnon and anything like that, which others have said to you time and again too, just shows that you're an ignorant zealot yourself.

    You have never been able to see or show a single thing Trumpist about me. My philosophy isn't hidden, I want to see a liberal, small, Thatcherite English state. I would welcome anyone who wants to migrate to England to do so, so long as they can support themselves and pay taxes I'd be very happy to see immigration go up as long as they have no claim on benefits.

    What about that is Q?
    Philip, your attempts at insults are very funny. I am not sure how an illiterate fool would be able to write on here to either mock you (which let's face it is not that difficult), or to respond to your sixth-formesque debate positions.

    OK, so I will explain how I see strong parallels between you and Trump supporters. You call yourself a "libertarian" even though you are clearly confused over what one is; you describe yourself as a nationalist and say there is nothing wrong with populism. You are unable to cover your dislike of foreigners, particularly Europeans, and your clearly deranged obsession/hatred with/of the EU is very similar with Trumpists obsession with "World Government" through the UN. Add to that the fact that you spend a very unhealthy amount of time on here talking garbage on subjects you clearly have no experience of, I would not be at all surprised if you didn't believe in lizard people and various other conspiracy theories beloved by people who spend too much time online and hold to your extremist right wing views. You are simply an English version of malcolmg; not quite as incoherent or as angry, but certainly getting there. I rest my case.
    Yes definitely, you've got terrible reading comprehension.

    As far as libertarianism, I believe in a small state that mostly leaves people to run their lives, both socially and economically.

    I have zero dislike for foreigners. That is something you have made up in your own head. I've never, ever expressed that. I have no dislike whatsoever for Europeans.

    No obsession with the EU. Just debating it politically on a politics website. Funny that.

    Your whole thing is a rather tragic rant.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094
    I notice that Arlene is going to resign her DUP membership after stepping down from the leadership, because she is unhappy with the direction the party has been taking. Under her own leadership. Truly bizarre.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100
    Thank-you for the header.

    This is an interesting article from Naomi O'Leary, about an incident of anti-vaxxers linked to a Measles outbreak in Samoa.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/samoa-s-measles-reversal-offers-stark-warning-for-covid-19-pandemic-1.4550376

    Measles was not always a problem for the Pacific island of Samoa. A high percentage of the population was vaccinated for the illness, making it difficult for the contagious disease to spread if it arrived on the island.

    But all this changed when the vaccination of one-year-old babies collapsed to a rate of just 31 per cent in 2018, in the wake of a safety scare. The controversy led to international vaccine deniers focusing their efforts on the island. A vicious measles outbreak followed, killing 83 people, mostly babies and toddlers, a devastating toll on a community of just 200,000 people.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,461
    IanB2 said:

    I notice that Arlene is going to resign her DUP membership after stepping down from the leadership, because she is unhappy with the direction the party has been taking. Under her own leadership. Truly bizarre.

    First thing she has got right!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    edited April 2021
    IanB2 said:

    I notice that Arlene is going to resign her DUP membership after stepping down from the leadership, because she is unhappy with the direction the party has been taking. Under her own leadership. Truly bizarre.

    Don’t forget that Arlene was originally UUP.

    It’s possible that this means that she expects the extremist Presbyterian nutters to effect a recapture of the party, something she doesn’t personally back and which is likely to be electorally suicidal.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094
    Ministers have urged a family facing a devastating bill as part of the building safety crisis to contact the Samaritans if they want help with “feelings of distress or despair”.

    In a move that sparked “disbelief” in the leaseholder involved, Jamie Robb, the response from an aide to the housing secretary, Robert Jenrick, to a plea for help with fire remediation works included the phone number for the suicide prevention service. It recommended its “free, anonymous, confidential and non-judgemental support”.

    The Robb family wrote to Jenrick in November last year after Jamie Robb, 30, discovered he was facing a bill of up to £40,000 for fire safety repairs on his apartment in a Manchester high-rise.

    The response arrived this week as the government pushed through fire safety legislation that leaves thousands of leaseholders facing bills of up to £75,000 each to fix apartment buildings found to be dangerous in the wake of the Grenfell Tower fire. “The government is aware of the effect that ongoing building safety concerns may have on the mental health of residents … If you feel able to, you can discuss any difficulties with your GP who will be able to signpost you to suitable healthcare services, if appropriate. You can also access support from the Samaritans by calling freephone 116 123”.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I've had an off the wall idea re the wallpaper (ho ho).

    The PM says he has now "covered" the costs. Odd word that - "covered".

    Maybe what has happened is that the entire sum has been paid by the annual £30k allowance - using unused annual allowances from previous years and years to come. The original donor has been repaid from that sum. So the entire cost has come from the taxpayer but using the annual allowance the PM has for his flat.

    The PM has not paid anything himself. He has simply covered the costs out of his annual allowance. The taxpayer has not been charged anything more than they would have been had the allowance been used up every year.

    This would explain the tortured refusals to explain everything simply - not just because it looks greedy to blow a 5-year budget in one go but also because it looks bad to have to repay the original rich Tory donor.

    Maybe completely wrong of course.

    Oh and I doubt it will affect a single vote.

    Could easily be - did @Charles speculate a similar thing (the allowance brought forward)?

    "Covered" is certainly very carefully used and stands out in Boris' pronouncements over the issue.
    If true, all those MPs and others saying that the PM has paid for all this himself so what's the problem will feel like fools. Will we ever get the truth? I doubt it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Some things are hidden in plain sight for years :o !

    https://twitter.com/The66Ramblers/status/1140999393274814464
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,100
    edited April 2021
    TimT said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Thanks for the achingly dull recommendations, although I accept my requirement is achingly dull.

    So, do I buy or lease?

    FWIW I buy and write it off. Probably not the cheapest, but I simply can't be arsed with leases and finance on cars and all the Delboy nonsense that goes with it.
    Except that if you lease you tend to get better offers on the purchase price, and there are some very low interest (indeed a few zero per cent) offers around. If you can get a zero per cent lease offer, you don’t need to decide whether to buy the car until the three years are up, at no extra cost.
    But be careful about your mileage. Buy gap insurance if you think your annual mileage might exceed the lease terms - otherwise you'll get a big bill at the end of the lease and lose the car.
    I've only ever bought one car on a lease, and I expect it to be my last diesel.

    My price was -25% on list, with a reasonable but not exceptional finance offer. Though I am sure others have done better.

    Get them to match Carwow or similar.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    MaxPB said:

    The Nats are dangerously close to "make Mexico pay for the wall" level with this rubbish.

    I guess it just speaks to their insecurities that they think they'll need the UK treasury to keep funding them after independence and are clearly absolutely shit scared that this won't be the case.

    Any UK political party that proposed to bung the Scots billions a year on an indefinite basis is going to discover at the following general election just how angry the public can get.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,010

    Actor Noel Clarke says he's deeply sorry for some of his actions and will seek professional help, but denies sexual misconduct

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-56948644

    I like this part:
    "Clarke is known for playing Mikey Smith in Doctor Who from 2005-10 ..."

    But not known well enough for the BBC to get the name of the character right, of course.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094
    Freedland:

    In refusing to tell us who first paid that bill for overpriced wallpaper, or to give full details of who paid for his December 2019 holiday in Mustique, Johnson has offended the public trust.

    Johnson’s Brexit protocol that put a border down the Irish sea, even after he’d vowed never to put a border down the Irish sea, thereby imperilling a union he swore blind he would protect. His proposal of an internal market bill that proudly declared its intention to break international law, prompting the UK’s top legal civil servant to quit – one of a disturbing number of mandarins driven to resignation on Johnson’s watch.

    His illegal suspension of parliament, overturned as a violation of fundamental democratic practice by unanimous verdict of the supreme court. The lies that led to that moment: the £350m on the side of the bus or the scare story that Turkey was poised to join the EU and that Britain would be powerless to stop it. Siding with Vladimir Putin to suggest that the EU had provoked the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Scandals, all.

    The real scandal lies with us, the electorate, still seduced by a tousled-hair rebel shtick and faux bonhomie that should have palled years ago. Americans got rid of their lying, self-serving, scandal-plagued charlatan 100 days ago. They did it at the first possible opportunity. Next week, polls suggest we’re poised to give ours a partial thumbs-up at the ballot box. For allowing this shameless man to keep riding high, some of the shame is on us.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094
    MattW said:

    TimT said:

    IanB2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Thanks for the achingly dull recommendations, although I accept my requirement is achingly dull.

    So, do I buy or lease?

    FWIW I buy and write it off. Probably not the cheapest, but I simply can't be arsed with leases and finance on cars and all the Delboy nonsense that goes with it.
    Except that if you lease you tend to get better offers on the purchase price, and there are some very low interest (indeed a few zero per cent) offers around. If you can get a zero per cent lease offer, you don’t need to decide whether to buy the car until the three years are up, at no extra cost.
    But be careful about your mileage. Buy gap insurance if you think your annual mileage might exceed the lease terms - otherwise you'll get a big bill at the end of the lease and lose the car.
    I've only ever bought one car on a lease, and I expect it to be my last diesel.

    My price was -25% on list, with a reasonable but not exceptional finance offer. Though I am sure others have done better.

    Get them to match Carwow or similar.
    I bought my car through Carwow. Saved £1,500 on the best price offered by my local dealer, at the cost of having to drive to Norfolk to collect it.
This discussion has been closed.