Not a good Daily Mail front page tomorrow for the PM – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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I think we should all take a moment to recognise the service of Milfs.
https://twitter.com/LukePollard/status/1386952601300873216?s=202 -
This is the one I don't much care about. A tape would be nice (so as to get context and tone) but I doubt it will be him being anything other than a bit crass. You know what he's like, with all of that pseudy mock classical oratory he does. "Let the bodies pile high!". LOL. That really is "Boris being Boris".BluestBlue said:
And there we have it. What amazes me in particular is the confected outrage that a PM having to make life-and-death decisions in the middle on the greatest domestic crisis in 100 years might possibly have vented his emotions in his private office, which is now causing some histrionic types to faint like Victorian aunts exposed to a bare table leg.JohnLilburne said:
My take isScott_xP said:
It wasn't a loan, until it became public knowledge.Chameleon said:I'm still not seeing where the corruption is in taking a loan from his own party.
(a) the taxpayer (his landlord) (ie me) didn't pay for it. That is good.
(b) who gives a flying f*** what Boris says in private? We already know he likes flowery language.
I reckon that's how the average Tory-inclined voter will think, too.
Unfortunately it's hiding lots of more real stuff, like cronyism, conflict of interest, etc.
And I thought Dominic Cummings was a contemptible little man, none of what he says is to be believed. Suddenly he is He Who Talks Truth To Power. Laughable.
The other stuff, though, is and ought to be a concern, regardless of one's political leanings. The evidence is mounting up that he's a wrong un.0 -
You want my honest answer? If any Prime Minister had said that, it would be an unnecessarily cold but accurate statement of the harsh reality of war. As far as I'm aware, no campaign in military history that was thought worth undertaking in the first place has ever been abandoned because of the death of one soldier.TOPPING said:
Same question for you O Bluest of Blue.BluestBlue said:
And at the end of the day this new Star Chamber will have proved ... what? That the PM might have said something in anger in his private office that didn't change policy in the slightest because the decision had already been made? This supposedly high crime is really just another arx e cloaca * for Boris' detractors to toss themselves off over until he mysteriously rises in the polls again and they retire in state of perplexity, if not apoplexy...RochdalePioneers said:
Exactly. Why produce it now? Knowledge that it exists has already flushed out two witnesses willing to testify under oath. There's a whole nest of rats to be flushed out...bigjohnowls said:
Much more effective to produce it after the PM vehemently denied saying it I would have thought.Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .
*A mountain out of a molehill; more literally, a citadel out of shit.
What about if some squaddie had been zapped by the Taliban in Afghan and Boris was overheard, or it was leaked that he had said so what it's only one soldier's death vs the overall campaign?1 -
My neice had a brownies camp via Zoom - they did some word games and had a virtual campfire/singsong. Apparently she enjoyed it.Philip_Thompson said:
Not for myself but my girls do "Rainbows" meetings over Zoom. Though not many who were attending Rainbows in person chose to do the Zoom, it's good for them and they have different activities each week.TOPPING said:Talking about zoom - does anyone still do social zooms?
I find them the most depressing thing going.
Social zooms have broadly died a death. Still do some to catch up with family down south, but no more often then before Covid. Had frequent local family zooms in first lockdown, but those have also gone, but we're seeing family outside so have become quite redundant.1 -
We did that sometimes even pre pandemic. It can be a good way to keep in touch with close friends or family overseas.TOPPING said:
Sounds great - I would put that in the maintaining social development category for children which imo is vital.Philip_Thompson said:
Not for myself but my girls do "Rainbows" meetings over Zoom. Though not many who were attending Rainbows in person chose to do the Zoom, it's good for them and they have different activities each week.TOPPING said:Talking about zoom - does anyone still do social zooms?
I find them the most depressing thing going.
I'm talking about you and your mates sitting with a glass of wine or beer in front of a screen chatting.
We don't use Zoom for that, have Facebook Portal which we bought pre pandemic.0 -
BallotBoxScotland apply their own model:ping said:https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1386964900589805572?s=20
This must hit the SNP’s constituency seats. Is there a calculator anywhere?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/13869531966235197441 -
I cannot see the DUP trusting the Tories again. Even without Boris. If the Tories are the largest party, but need allies to form a Government I think they are going have very considerable difficulties.HYUFD said:
Kinnock actually gained 20 seats in 1987 and 42 seats in 1992.Philip_Thompson said:
In many ways Starmer is like Kinnock, following Corbyn who was like Foot. It will be interesting then to see if Starmer does indeed stay to lose 2029 as well as 2024.londonpubman said:
Keir will be there until the GE, which will probably be in 2024. Then he loses the GE. But he does better than LAB did in 2019.Philip_Thompson said:
Unless he loses a General Election surely that will challenge things?CorrectHorseBattery said:The idea Keir Starmer is going to resign if Labour loses Hartlepool is for the birds, he's in for as long as he wants the job.
Even though the Labour Party do have a history of allowing losers to lose again, like Kinnock and Corbyn.
So the problem for LAB is who can replace him. Nandy?
Rayner?
It is also possible Starmer could be Wilson, who got in in 1964 with a UK Labour majority of 4 despite Home winning a Tory majority in England or he could be a Labour Cameron who gained enough seats to force a hung parliament and a deal with the LDs even if he failed to win a majority.
2024 will be after 14 years of Tory rule, much as 1964 was after 14 years of Tory rule and 2010 after 13 years of Labour rule.
Indeed on yesterday's Mori it would be back to 2017 with the Tories losing their majority and again reliant on the DUP1 -
I thought we were supposed to have a booming swinging 20s?CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1386986988612554752
There is a ticking time bomb coming. This is not going to be a nice decade.0 -
So +9 seats in favour of independence. I can hear the frothing from Epping Forest already.TheWhiteRabbit said:
BallotBoxScotland apply their own model:ping said:https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1386964900589805572?s=20
This must hit the SNP’s constituency seats. Is there a calculator anywhere?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/13869531966235197443 -
I think BJ will self-destruct at some point or realise he is likely to and so leave office while still (sort of) ahead before the next GE. What has struck me about the current feverish round of news is whether any PM of the past could long survive leaks about phrases used in internal meetings and conversations given current news media? Does a PM need an Alistair Campbell to survive?0
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Spent the last hour on a Zoom committee meeting. Small, but national organisation. Been running u3a meetings on Zoom, but members are anxious to return to 'real life'. Some, however, will continue.Philip_Thompson said:
We did that sometimes even pre pandemic. It can be a good way to keep in touch with close friends or family overseas.TOPPING said:
Sounds great - I would put that in the maintaining social development category for children which imo is vital.Philip_Thompson said:
Not for myself but my girls do "Rainbows" meetings over Zoom. Though not many who were attending Rainbows in person chose to do the Zoom, it's good for them and they have different activities each week.TOPPING said:Talking about zoom - does anyone still do social zooms?
I find them the most depressing thing going.
I'm talking about you and your mates sitting with a glass of wine or beer in front of a screen chatting.
We don't use Zoom for that, have Facebook Portal which we bought pre pandemic.0 -
Fair point but wouldn’t that be yesterday?bigjohnowls said:
Much more effective to produce it after the PM vehemently denied saying it I would have thought.Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .0 -
I'm not yet closing the door on the possibility of the next GE returning PM Starmer in a hung parliament.Pulpstar said:
He won't be the next PM. Of the current Labour bigwigs I think Burnham would have the best chance to beat a tired and washed up (Which is that he may well be) Boris in 2028/9.kinabalu said:
Starmer might stay after losing only if the party does well enough to get a hung parliament with a very unstable Tory minority government - in which case he'll be looking for a 2nd bite GE soon after to complete the job and become PM.Philip_Thompson said:
In many ways Starmer is like Kinnock, following Corbyn who was like Foot. It will be interesting then to see if Starmer does indeed stay to lose 2029 as well as 2024.londonpubman said:
Keir will be there until the GE, which will probably be in 2024. Then he loses the GE. But he does better than LAB did in 2019.Philip_Thompson said:
Unless he loses a General Election surely that will challenge things?CorrectHorseBattery said:The idea Keir Starmer is going to resign if Labour loses Hartlepool is for the birds, he's in for as long as he wants the job.
Even though the Labour Party do have a history of allowing losers to lose again, like Kinnock and Corbyn.
So the problem for LAB is who can replace him. Nandy? Rayner?
Other than that, after the next GE, it's PM Starmer or it's 'See you later' Starmer.
A Labour majority, however, I have pretty much ruled out.0 -
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We have all forgotten the accepted truths of our discussions last year whereby we agreed that many on furlough no longer actually had jobs but haven't been formally let go yet.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1386986988612554752
There is a ticking time bomb coming. This is not going to be a nice decade.
Anecdotally, I was cycling along Hammersmith, King St the other day. I would say one in every three or four shops wasn't coming back.1 -
I think the Daily Mail campaign is part of a deep 'Tories for Starmer' strategy aimed at preserving the current dreary leadership for as long as possible. If he scrapes home in Hartlepool and delivers a few extra council seats he'll be safe until 2024 - and a lot easier to beat than a ballsy young woman, of whom there are several waiting in the wings.kinabalu said:
This is the one I don't much care about. A tape would be nice (so as to get context and tone) but I doubt it will be him being anything other than a bit crass. You know what he's like, with all of that pseudy mock classical oratory he does. "Let the bodies pile high!". LOL. That really is "Boris being Boris".BluestBlue said:
And there we have it. What amazes me in particular is the confected outrage that a PM having to make life-and-death decisions in the middle on the greatest domestic crisis in 100 years might possibly have vented his emotions in his private office, which is now causing some histrionic types to faint like Victorian aunts exposed to a bare table leg.JohnLilburne said:
My take isScott_xP said:
It wasn't a loan, until it became public knowledge.Chameleon said:I'm still not seeing where the corruption is in taking a loan from his own party.
(a) the taxpayer (his landlord) (ie me) didn't pay for it. That is good.
(b) who gives a flying f*** what Boris says in private? We already know he likes flowery language.
I reckon that's how the average Tory-inclined voter will think, too.
Unfortunately it's hiding lots of more real stuff, like cronyism, conflict of interest, etc.
And I thought Dominic Cummings was a contemptible little man, none of what he says is to be believed. Suddenly he is He Who Talks Truth To Power. Laughable.
The other stuff, though, is and ought to be a concern, regardless of one's political leanings. The evidence is mounting up that he's a wrong un.0 -
I bet we are.Gallowgate said:
I thought we were supposed to have a booming swinging 20s?CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1386986988612554752
There is a ticking time bomb coming. This is not going to be a nice decade.
It's a really meaningless question. There are always companies every year looking to let people go even without a recession some firms hire and some firms do the opposite. Many large firms will be doing both simultaneously.
And much more interestingly, what proportion of firms are seeking to increase their workforce?
That's hysterical clickbait not interesting.0 -
Ok. Good explanation. I buy it and let you off.Northern_Al said:
Thanks. Always best to lull the enemy into a false sense of security - hence 'Boris'. I know you don't like it, but I reckon on balance it's best to fake familiarity in the battle for hearts and minds. It would be different if he had a more interesting surname like Fortescue or something.kinabalu said:
Apart from "Boris" instead of "Johnson" - c'mon! - a super post from you here, Al.Northern_Al said:On Boris, none of the current stories will bring him down, obviously. Not the redecoration. Nor the intemperate remarks. Nor the cronyism/mates' contracts. Nor the failure to replace Alex Allan. Nor the failure to update the Register of Members' Interests. Nor the failure to sack Patel for breaching the Ministerial Code. Nor the loss of lives to Covid. Nor the money wasted on track and trace. Nor Greensill and Cameron. I could go on. Individually, each of these does not have cut through. But collectively, they might, as a narrative of sleaze and cronyism is building.
I agree with those who argue that despite the Tories being more or less in power for 11 years, the Boris government really is brand new. And it's been in power less than 18 months. It usually takes a lot longer than that for sleaze allegations to take hold. In this respect, this government is performing more swiftly than any predecessor I can think of. I'm beginning to wonder if Boris will survive as long as I'd previously assumed. Government/ministerial/civil service self-discipline seems to be severely lacking, and the level of leaks and smears so early in Boris's reign does not augur well for a prolonged Johnson premiership. Hope I'm right (though I'll probably change my mind next week).
Way I see it, he'll be around for a while yet, but the frightful notion of "PM for a decade or more" is receding. Great, because I was starting to give that some credence and it was making me feel a bit ill.1 -
Mr. Topping, here's an elite morris dancing training video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMGodM0zm8k0 -
I don’t know but it’s quite likely I’d have thought. Or at least MI5 might want a quiet word.NerysHughes said:
If people are covertly recording the PM at No 10 would they not have broken the Offical Secrets Act?Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .1 -
Sorry to hear that OKCOldKingCole said:
Interesting thought. 60+ years ago I smashed an ankle..... put my foot in a two-foot deep hole while running and of course all my weight went down on it. 6 months later I was back playing hockey, did so for another season, then worked standing up for another 20+ years.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Thank youRochdalePioneers said:
Yes, hope he's ok.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I fully understand your sentiment but in real politics winning is the bench mark and Boris has been excellent at that, rightly or wronglyGallowgate said:
I'm not sure what relevance the polling has to this, other than for betting purposes.Big_G_NorthWales said:I was up very early this morning (5.30am) to take my son in law into hospital in Wrexham for his complete knee replacement operation later today on coming home I listened to the radio
I was aware of the dreadful headlines for Boris from todays papers, and not least from the Mail which has suddenly become the doyen of the left and EU supporters, and expected Boris to be hung our to dry
However, the reporting was more balanced than I expected, indeed fairly critical of Labour who have been using sleaze for some time with no cut through yet in the polls. That is not to say Boris received a free pass, but the alleged comments were put more inbalance and Nicky Campbell in fairness did say the were receiving texts acciusing him that he was leading the left in the attacks on Boris.
On returning home Sky were fairly similar, but I believe Kate McCann of Sky was spot on when she said we only have just over a week to see the results of the nationwide ballot and whether it cuts through
I would suggest if after all this Boris does OK and wins Harlepool ( which I do not expect) then Starmer is going to come under huge pressure
The last few days has made next week's election fair more relevant,,and important for both Boris and Starmer, while previously I had exoectec that only Starmer would be under pressure
Just because the public on the whole doesn't care about something doesn't mean it is right or ok. Standards do matter for the integrity of the office itself.
And thank you for your kind comments about my son in law
It is a big operation but he has no choice due to legacy damage from his days playing hockey and team sports
It has now come back to bite me. Very uncomfortable.
My wife (81) has been told her right shoulder is chronic now and she needs it replacing
However, with the long waiting times but importantly recovery time at her age she is to soldier on with my help as necessary on lifting etc0 -
Drip drip wounds but doesn’t kill.eek said:
Drip, drip, drip - wait to the story to nearly end and re-ignite it?Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .
Orperhaps there is something coming in PMQs?0 -
So SNP down 3 seats on the 63 it got in 2016 and Boris will of course easily refuse indyref2 which he will, Sturgeon will be humiliated going from an SNP landslide last year to no SNP majority at all.Gallowgate said:
So +9 seats in favour of independence. I can hear the frothing from Epping Forest already.TheWhiteRabbit said:
BallotBoxScotland apply their own model:ping said:https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1386964900589805572?s=20
This must hit the SNP’s constituency seats. Is there a calculator anywhere?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1386953196623519744
No SNP majority as in 2011, no grounds whatsoever for an indyref20 -
My thesis is that we are already as low as we are going to get in most areas, as long as we're testing 1 million plus people a day.MaxPB said:
This is the UK in about 6 weeks. We're so close to the finish line.Pulpstar said:5 days of sub 100 cases reported in Israel
!
There is still progress to be made in some areas e.g. South Yorkshire, but surely across much of the country this is as good as it gets? I don't think it's credible that we can run over a million tests and not get some positives, even if the disease didn't exist at all.0 -
HYUFD said:
So SNP down 3 seats on the 63 it got in 2016 and Boris will of course easily refuse indyref2 which he willGallowgate said:
So +9 seats in favour of independence. I can hear the frothing from Epping Forest already.TheWhiteRabbit said:
BallotBoxScotland apply their own model:ping said:https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1386964900589805572?s=20
This must hit the SNP’s constituency seats. Is there a calculator anywhere?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1386953196623519744 shameless... 1 -
Thanks.TheWhiteRabbit said:
BallotBoxScotland apply their own model:ping said:https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1386964900589805572?s=20
This must hit the SNP’s constituency seats. Is there a calculator anywhere?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1386953196623519744
betting post
Over a grand available to back SNP<60 seats at 6.4/6.6 on betfair.
Definitely value, if that poll/calculation is to be believed.
Dyor!0 -
I did some non essential shopping last week. The shop is operating on appointment only, but has a decent website so I'd chosen what I wanted and then went in purchased, tried on the boots I'd bought to check the sizing and added a bit to it all.TOPPING said:
We have all forgotten the accepted truths of our discussions last year whereby we agreed that many on furlough no longer actually had jobs but haven't been formally let go yet.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1386986988612554752
There is a ticking time bomb coming. This is not going to be a nice decade.
Anecdotally, I was cycling along Hammersmith, King St the other day. I would say one in every three or four shops wasn't coming back.
Quite nice being the only person in the store tbh - perhaps a model for future B&M retail0 -
B&M is usually full of peoplePulpstar said:
I did some non essential shopping last week. The shop is operating on appointment only, but has a decent website so I'd chosen what I wanted and then went in purchased, tried on the boots I'd bought to check the sizing and added a bit to it all.TOPPING said:
We have all forgotten the accepted truths of our discussions last year whereby we agreed that many on furlough no longer actually had jobs but haven't been formally let go yet.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1386986988612554752
There is a ticking time bomb coming. This is not going to be a nice decade.
Anecdotally, I was cycling along Hammersmith, King St the other day. I would say one in every three or four shops wasn't coming back.
Quite nice being the only person in the store tbh - perhaps a model for future B&M retail1 -
One thing that looks like it might change is PhD vivas. I've done a couple now via Zoom and doing a mock one next week. There's a feeling among colleagues that this will become the norm, with examiners no longer travelling big distances for a few hours of the exam.OldKingCole said:
Spent the last hour on a Zoom committee meeting. Small, but national organisation. Been running u3a meetings on Zoom, but members are anxious to return to 'real life'. Some, however, will continue.Philip_Thompson said:
We did that sometimes even pre pandemic. It can be a good way to keep in touch with close friends or family overseas.TOPPING said:
Sounds great - I would put that in the maintaining social development category for children which imo is vital.Philip_Thompson said:
Not for myself but my girls do "Rainbows" meetings over Zoom. Though not many who were attending Rainbows in person chose to do the Zoom, it's good for them and they have different activities each week.TOPPING said:Talking about zoom - does anyone still do social zooms?
I find them the most depressing thing going.
I'm talking about you and your mates sitting with a glass of wine or beer in front of a screen chatting.
We don't use Zoom for that, have Facebook Portal which we bought pre pandemic.
I have to say I think it will be a shame if that's the case. Viva via Zoom, you turn up, ask your questions and log off, that's it. Viva in person, you get to chat with the new doctor afterwards, much more informally and often more interestingly, with their supervisors, other faculty. I've had collaborations come out of that (and I've poached a new doctor, too). I can't imagine it has the same sense of occasion for the student, either. Better post-lockdown when the in-person celebrations will resume, but it's a good networking opportunity lost. When else do you get to discuss your research for 2-4 hours with someone right in your field that you haven't previously worked with, then go for a beer afterwards and talk about the future?2 -
Let us just be cautious on thisHYUFD said:
So SNP down 3 seats on the 63 it got in 2016 and Boris will of course easily refuse indyref2 which he will, Sturgeon will be humiliated going from an SNP landslide last year to no SNP majority at all.Gallowgate said:
So +9 seats in favour of independence. I can hear the frothing from Epping Forest already.TheWhiteRabbit said:
BallotBoxScotland apply their own model:ping said:https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1386964900589805572?s=20
This must hit the SNP’s constituency seats. Is there a calculator anywhere?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1386953196623519744
No SNP majority as in 2011, no grounds whatsoever for an indyref2
It does look as if the SNP are suffering from a very tired and increasingly agitated Nicola, and a much improved and confident Anas Sarwar
If this continues to and through polling day then the case for independence, not just on independence MSP numbers, but opinion against independence currently around 51/49, then the case for independence fails anyway
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They must be struggling to press send on an email since yesterday. More likely they are waiting to continue dragging the story out - maybe for weekend papers!bigjohnowls said:
Much more effective to produce it after the PM vehemently denied saying it I would have thought.Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .1 -
Or as one of our politicians wrote about WestminsterBluestBlue said:
And at the end of the day this new Star Chamber will have proved ... what? That the PM might have said something in anger in his private office that didn't change policy in the slightest because the decision had already been made? This supposedly high crime is really just another arx e cloaca * for Boris' detractors to toss themselves off over until he mysteriously rises in the polls again and they retire in state of perplexity, if not apoplexy...RochdalePioneers said:
Exactly. Why produce it now? Knowledge that it exists has already flushed out two witnesses willing to testify under oath. There's a whole nest of rats to be flushed out...bigjohnowls said:
Much more effective to produce it after the PM vehemently denied saying it I would have thought.Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .
*A mountain out of a molehill; more literally, a citadel out of shit.
Fair Cloacina, goddess of this place
Accustomed seat of every child of grace
On this, thy fair throne, let our libations flow
Not rudely swift, nor obstinately slow2 -
Here in the Yorkshire Dales the local economy is very buoyant... lifted by ‘staycation’ tourism and an influx of new homeowners, local businesses are struggling to recruit and tradesmen are impossible to find... the only dampener is the outlook for beef and sheep sales but good farmers are finding ways to diversify...Philip_Thompson said:
I bet we are.Gallowgate said:
I thought we were supposed to have a booming swinging 20s?CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1386986988612554752
There is a ticking time bomb coming. This is not going to be a nice decade.
It's a really meaningless question. There are always companies every year looking to let people go even without a recession some firms hire and some firms do the opposite. Many large firms will be doing both simultaneously.
And much more interestingly, what proportion of firms are seeking to increase their workforce?
That's hysterical clickbait not interesting.
On another matter, does anyone know whether the excess death statistics will start to incorporate last year’s COVID deaths into the five year average?1 -
My knit group is still doing them, but I've only been to one in the last seven months - fell out of the habit when I was able to go sea-bathing in the late summer evenings, and then found it too tedious and depressing from the autumn onwards.TOPPING said:Talking about zoom - does anyone still do social zooms?
I find them the most depressing thing going.
I think it's actually been really good for those in the group with young children, or who recently moved away from Edinburgh, who weren't able to make it to the pub. Everyone else, not so much.0 -
We're similar vintage, I sense. Although I'm not disclosing. Pagan thinks I'm 85 and Cookie thinks I'm 35. and I quite like what that implies about my posting.Alanbrooke said:
Im just older than you and have seen it all before.kinabalu said:
Ok. So you don't care about this stuff and never will.Alanbrooke said:kinabalu said:
The UK is "fretting" about the probity of its PM. This is allowed, I think, despite this being a big old complex world with lots of bad stuff going on.Alanbrooke said:
Putting things in contextPhilip_Thompson said:
The Daily Heil exists to whip up hate.RochdalePioneers said:
It was deliberate and it was done twice.Sean_F said:
When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.RochdalePioneers said:
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.moonshine said:
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.Roger said:
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it mattersScott_xP said:Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1
First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period
Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.
Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.
I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.
Its a shame you've succombed to its lure.
The UK is fretting about some wallpaper meanwhile
The head of the EU believes her priority is who gets to sit on a sofa first rather than the 1000s of her citizens dying each day
The french army is making noises about why it might be better if it ran the country instead of the fop president
https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/la-tribune-d-anciens-militaires-contre-le-delitement-de-la-france-enflamme-le-debat-politique-20210426
I think Ill stick with the wallpaper
LOL show me a UK PM whose probity wasnt questionable. Likewise a LOTO
"Man of the World" Alanbrooke. He knows how this dirty old world ticks. Seen it all, done it all.
LOL indeed.
To expect perfect politicians is just plain naive, they come as a package faults and all and we judge them on how well they run the country not on who they shag or how dodgy their mates are.
Thing is, when assessing politicians, there's a territory between (i) I don't give a shit how corrupt they are and (ii) I expect perfection, they should be saints. This is where I am and where I think everyone should be. It's a large territory so it's quite easy to find.
Excessive and performative cynicism, btw, is its own form of naivety. I diagnose it in you.3 -
Bad news for Covid, 33 cases in Wales down from 53 previous tuesday reported. No deaths on a Tuesday reported either which is REALLY good.3
-
More real news:Philip_Thompson said:
When the real news going on in the world includes people building funeral pyres in India because they're so overwhelmed, while in the UK we're virtually Covid-free and planning on unlocking permanently - to be banging on about private conversations allegedly had months ago is petty meaningless crap.BluestBlue said:
And at the end of the day this new Star Chamber will have proved ... what? That the PM might have said something in anger in his private office that didn't change policy in the slightest because the decision had already been made? This supposedly high crime is really just another arx e cloaca * for Boris' detractors to toss themselves off over until he mysteriously rises in the polls again and they retire in state of perplexity, if not apoplexy...RochdalePioneers said:
Exactly. Why produce it now? Knowledge that it exists has already flushed out two witnesses willing to testify under oath. There's a whole nest of rats to be flushed out...bigjohnowls said:
Much more effective to produce it after the PM vehemently denied saying it I would have thought.Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .
*A mountain out of a molehill; more literally, a citadel out of shit.
There's real news going on. The problem is the real news doesn't suit those with an agenda to push. The real news is that things are going well here and awfully elsewhere and we should be discussing how can we move on from saving lives in this country to saving lives overseas in India and whereever else is struggling not this ridiculous petty shit.
Last week former Pentagon official Elizondo spoke candidly to a panel of mainstream journos, from NBC, NY Times, Fox etc...
https://youtu.be/E93eSVh1364
(video is part 1 of 3).
Says that UFO’s have remotely disarmed American nuclear missiles, though it was not understood if this was with hostile intent or an interference byproduct of their propulsion technology. That there’s video taken from 50 feet away “close enough to see there’s no rivets”, video that lasts 25 minutes, of craft exhibiting flight characteristics beyond our understanding of physics not just of how to propel something but how to stop it breaking up, corroborating telemetry not just from radar but by sonar (underwater) of craft travelling between air and water with no difference in performance.
The sceptic response: Lue Elizondo is kray kray and is making it up for money.
Harry Reid’s office in turn wrote a letter to the media yesterday confirming Elizondo’s role. Not something a former senate majority leader would do for a charlatan giving false testimony on intelligence for money or fame.
https://twitter.com/gadinbc/status/1386872125835812864?s=21
PB:
the Conservative party paid for Boris Johnson’s wallpaper and this is counts as money laundering!
0 -
I’ve heard of biting your foot... but never your foot biting you 😄OldKingCole said:
Interesting thought. 60+ years ago I smashed an ankle..... put my foot in a two-foot deep hole while running and of course all my weight went down on it. 6 months later I was back playing hockey, did so for another season, then worked standing up for another 20+ years.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Thank youRochdalePioneers said:
Yes, hope he's ok.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I fully understand your sentiment but in real politics winning is the bench mark and Boris has been excellent at that, rightly or wronglyGallowgate said:
I'm not sure what relevance the polling has to this, other than for betting purposes.Big_G_NorthWales said:I was up very early this morning (5.30am) to take my son in law into hospital in Wrexham for his complete knee replacement operation later today on coming home I listened to the radio
I was aware of the dreadful headlines for Boris from todays papers, and not least from the Mail which has suddenly become the doyen of the left and EU supporters, and expected Boris to be hung our to dry
However, the reporting was more balanced than I expected, indeed fairly critical of Labour who have been using sleaze for some time with no cut through yet in the polls. That is not to say Boris received a free pass, but the alleged comments were put more inbalance and Nicky Campbell in fairness did say the were receiving texts acciusing him that he was leading the left in the attacks on Boris.
On returning home Sky were fairly similar, but I believe Kate McCann of Sky was spot on when she said we only have just over a week to see the results of the nationwide ballot and whether it cuts through
I would suggest if after all this Boris does OK and wins Harlepool ( which I do not expect) then Starmer is going to come under huge pressure
The last few days has made next week's election fair more relevant,,and important for both Boris and Starmer, while previously I had exoectec that only Starmer would be under pressure
Just because the public on the whole doesn't care about something doesn't mean it is right or ok. Standards do matter for the integrity of the office itself.
And thank you for your kind comments about my son in law
It is a big operation but he has no choice due to legacy damage from his days playing hockey and team sports
It has now come back to bite me. Very uncomfortable.1 -
I assume there's an art to this by now. Watch the trend on the Twitter hashtag frequencies, and release soon after interest starts to drop at a certain rate, to maximise the time the story is in the public domain. There are presumably also better times of day, and better days of the week, to release stories, and also times when other stories are sucking up attention.Nemtynakht said:
They must be struggling to press send on an email since yesterday. More likely they are waiting to continue dragging the story out - maybe for weekend papers!bigjohnowls said:
Much more effective to produce it after the PM vehemently denied saying it I would have thought.Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .
Plus, bonus, the longer this period drags on for, the more likely it is that Johnson gets overconfident the recording doesn't exist and digs an even bigger hole when it gets released. If it gets released.0 -
UFO betting dot commoonshine said:
More real news:Philip_Thompson said:
When the real news going on in the world includes people building funeral pyres in India because they're so overwhelmed, while in the UK we're virtually Covid-free and planning on unlocking permanently - to be banging on about private conversations allegedly had months ago is petty meaningless crap.BluestBlue said:
And at the end of the day this new Star Chamber will have proved ... what? That the PM might have said something in anger in his private office that didn't change policy in the slightest because the decision had already been made? This supposedly high crime is really just another arx e cloaca * for Boris' detractors to toss themselves off over until he mysteriously rises in the polls again and they retire in state of perplexity, if not apoplexy...RochdalePioneers said:
Exactly. Why produce it now? Knowledge that it exists has already flushed out two witnesses willing to testify under oath. There's a whole nest of rats to be flushed out...bigjohnowls said:
Much more effective to produce it after the PM vehemently denied saying it I would have thought.Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .
*A mountain out of a molehill; more literally, a citadel out of shit.
There's real news going on. The problem is the real news doesn't suit those with an agenda to push. The real news is that things are going well here and awfully elsewhere and we should be discussing how can we move on from saving lives in this country to saving lives overseas in India and whereever else is struggling not this ridiculous petty shit.
Last week former Pentagon official Elizondo spoke candidly to a panel of mainstream journos, from NBC, NY Times, Fox etc...
https://youtu.be/E93eSVh1364
(video is part 1 of 3).
Says that UFO’s have remotely disarmed American nuclear missiles, though it was not understood if this was with hostile intent or an interference byproduct of their propulsion technology. That there’s video taken from 50 feet away “close enough to see there’s no rivets”, video that lasts 25 minutes, of craft exhibiting flight characteristics beyond our understanding of physics not just of how to propel something but how to stop it breaking up, corroborating telemetry not just from radar but by sonar (underwater) of craft travelling between air and water with no difference in performance.
The sceptic response: Lue Elizondo is kray kray and is making it up for money.
Harry Reid’s office in turn wrote a letter to the media yesterday confirming Elizondo’s role. Not something a former senate majority leader would do for a charlatan giving false testimony on intelligence for money or fame.
https://twitter.com/gadinbc/status/1386872125835812864?s=21
PB:
the Conservative party paid for Boris Johnson’s wallpaper and this is counts as money laundering!
Aliens 10000/1
Not aliens 1/100002 -
Thanks for the quote, what size are you accepting?ping said:
UFO betting dot commoonshine said:
More real news:Philip_Thompson said:
When the real news going on in the world includes people building funeral pyres in India because they're so overwhelmed, while in the UK we're virtually Covid-free and planning on unlocking permanently - to be banging on about private conversations allegedly had months ago is petty meaningless crap.BluestBlue said:
And at the end of the day this new Star Chamber will have proved ... what? That the PM might have said something in anger in his private office that didn't change policy in the slightest because the decision had already been made? This supposedly high crime is really just another arx e cloaca * for Boris' detractors to toss themselves off over until he mysteriously rises in the polls again and they retire in state of perplexity, if not apoplexy...RochdalePioneers said:
Exactly. Why produce it now? Knowledge that it exists has already flushed out two witnesses willing to testify under oath. There's a whole nest of rats to be flushed out...bigjohnowls said:
Much more effective to produce it after the PM vehemently denied saying it I would have thought.Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .
*A mountain out of a molehill; more literally, a citadel out of shit.
There's real news going on. The problem is the real news doesn't suit those with an agenda to push. The real news is that things are going well here and awfully elsewhere and we should be discussing how can we move on from saving lives in this country to saving lives overseas in India and whereever else is struggling not this ridiculous petty shit.
Last week former Pentagon official Elizondo spoke candidly to a panel of mainstream journos, from NBC, NY Times, Fox etc...
https://youtu.be/E93eSVh1364
(video is part 1 of 3).
Says that UFO’s have remotely disarmed American nuclear missiles, though it was not understood if this was with hostile intent or an interference byproduct of their propulsion technology. That there’s video taken from 50 feet away “close enough to see there’s no rivets”, video that lasts 25 minutes, of craft exhibiting flight characteristics beyond our understanding of physics not just of how to propel something but how to stop it breaking up, corroborating telemetry not just from radar but by sonar (underwater) of craft travelling between air and water with no difference in performance.
The sceptic response: Lue Elizondo is kray kray and is making it up for money.
Harry Reid’s office in turn wrote a letter to the media yesterday confirming Elizondo’s role. Not something a former senate majority leader would do for a charlatan giving false testimony on intelligence for money or fame.
https://twitter.com/gadinbc/status/1386872125835812864?s=21
PB:
the Conservative party paid for Boris Johnson’s wallpaper and this is counts as money laundering!
Aliens 100/1
Not aliens 1/1001 -
But if they lose Hartlepool, Tyne Tees and West Midlands and lose London its obvious what the media narrative will be, and it won't be kind to Starmer.HYUFD said:
On yesterday's Mori Labour will gain a lot of county council seats from the Tories next week and win London by a landslide and comfortably hold Wales even if they lose Hartlepool (which has special circumstances due to the high BXP vote in 2019).Brom said:If Starmer loses Hartlepool and has a bad election I'd be surprised if there aren't rumblings of a leadership challenge. Why should the left of the party sit back and accept electoral defeat in 2024? Owen Smith has made the argument on behalf of the Labour left (though I dont expect they have anyone who can beat Starmer).
On today's Panelbase in Scotland Labour will also overtake the Conservatives for second at Holyrood and prevent the SNP getting a majority0 -
He will be defeating the last vestige of self-respect in this venerable old nation of ours.Philip_Thompson said:
So if Boris wins 2029 who do you think it's most likely he's defeating?kinabalu said:
Starmer might stay after losing only if the party does well enough to get a hung parliament with a very unstable Tory minority government - in which case he'll be looking for a 2nd bite GE soon after to complete the job and become PM.Philip_Thompson said:
In many ways Starmer is like Kinnock, following Corbyn who was like Foot. It will be interesting then to see if Starmer does indeed stay to lose 2029 as well as 2024.londonpubman said:
Keir will be there until the GE, which will probably be in 2024. Then he loses the GE. But he does better than LAB did in 2019.Philip_Thompson said:
Unless he loses a General Election surely that will challenge things?CorrectHorseBattery said:The idea Keir Starmer is going to resign if Labour loses Hartlepool is for the birds, he's in for as long as he wants the job.
Even though the Labour Party do have a history of allowing losers to lose again, like Kinnock and Corbyn.
So the problem for LAB is who can replace him. Nandy? Rayner?
Other than that, after the next GE, it's PM Starmer or it's 'See you later' Starmer.0 -
It turned out to be more contagious, not more deadly.Philip_Thompson said:
If it was only more transmissible the CFR wouldn't have gone up surely?moonshine said:
It is hard to keep up but I thought the most recent evidence was that it was not in fact more lethal, just more transmissible.Philip_Thompson said:
Kent variant being more lethal turned out to be true. That's why the death toll was higher here, more people getting a more lethal variant. The Case Fatality Rate went up, until vaccines took it back down.Anabobazina said:
See also: the Kentish variant is more lethal; covid victims are getting younger... neither turned out to be true IIRC...MaxPB said:
Yes, I remember the panic about reinfection in Brazil after that one unreviewed study which then turned out to be a load of rubbish.Anabobazina said:
Remember that lots of these pieces of anecdotal ‘evidence’ have proved unworthy of the billing since COVID began. Most in fact. So I’d suggest waiting for proper evidence before jumping to any conclusions.FrancisUrquhart said:
More than disappointing, worrying.....its no magic bullet, but it has saved loads of lives.Andy_JS said:
Disappointing.FrancisUrquhart said:Anecdotal stories from India hospitals that Remdesivir isn't helping much against their local variant.
Indeed my understanding is the CFR has been tracking down all pandemic because people have gotten better medicines (dexamethasone) and other treatments (proning). But whereever B117 has hit the CFR has gone back up again. More transmissible and more deadly is an unpleasant combination.
https://www.euronews.com/2021/04/13/kent-covid-19-variant-more-infectious-but-not-more-severe-two-studies-find0 -
TOPPING said:
Talking about zoom - does anyone still do social zooms?
I find them the most depressing thing going.
They are awful and I do anything to avoid them.3 -
One of the few occasions when saying "look! a squirrel!" is literally as well as figuratively accurate.moonshine said:
More real news:Philip_Thompson said:
When the real news going on in the world includes people building funeral pyres in India because they're so overwhelmed, while in the UK we're virtually Covid-free and planning on unlocking permanently - to be banging on about private conversations allegedly had months ago is petty meaningless crap.BluestBlue said:
And at the end of the day this new Star Chamber will have proved ... what? That the PM might have said something in anger in his private office that didn't change policy in the slightest because the decision had already been made? This supposedly high crime is really just another arx e cloaca * for Boris' detractors to toss themselves off over until he mysteriously rises in the polls again and they retire in state of perplexity, if not apoplexy...RochdalePioneers said:
Exactly. Why produce it now? Knowledge that it exists has already flushed out two witnesses willing to testify under oath. There's a whole nest of rats to be flushed out...bigjohnowls said:
Much more effective to produce it after the PM vehemently denied saying it I would have thought.Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .
*A mountain out of a molehill; more literally, a citadel out of shit.
There's real news going on. The problem is the real news doesn't suit those with an agenda to push. The real news is that things are going well here and awfully elsewhere and we should be discussing how can we move on from saving lives in this country to saving lives overseas in India and whereever else is struggling not this ridiculous petty shit.
Last week former Pentagon official Elizondo spoke candidly to a panel of mainstream journos, from NBC, NY Times, Fox etc...
https://youtu.be/E93eSVh1364
(video is part 1 of 3).
Says that UFO’s have remotely disarmed American nuclear missiles, though it was not understood if this was with hostile intent or an interference byproduct of their propulsion technology. That there’s video taken from 50 feet away “close enough to see there’s no rivets”, video that lasts 25 minutes, of craft exhibiting flight characteristics beyond our understanding of physics not just of how to propel something but how to stop it breaking up, corroborating telemetry not just from radar but by sonar (underwater) of craft travelling between air and water with no difference in performance.
The sceptic response: Lue Elizondo is kray kray and is making it up for money.
Harry Reid’s office in turn wrote a letter to the media yesterday confirming Elizondo’s role. Not something a former senate majority leader would do for a charlatan giving false testimony on intelligence for money or fame.
https://twitter.com/gadinbc/status/1386872125835812864?s=21
PB:
the Conservative party paid for Boris Johnson’s wallpaper and this is counts as money laundering!2 -
Change in the odds. See my edited post.moonshine said:
Thanks for the quote, what size are you accepting?ping said:
UFO betting dot commoonshine said:
More real news:Philip_Thompson said:
When the real news going on in the world includes people building funeral pyres in India because they're so overwhelmed, while in the UK we're virtually Covid-free and planning on unlocking permanently - to be banging on about private conversations allegedly had months ago is petty meaningless crap.BluestBlue said:
And at the end of the day this new Star Chamber will have proved ... what? That the PM might have said something in anger in his private office that didn't change policy in the slightest because the decision had already been made? This supposedly high crime is really just another arx e cloaca * for Boris' detractors to toss themselves off over until he mysteriously rises in the polls again and they retire in state of perplexity, if not apoplexy...RochdalePioneers said:
Exactly. Why produce it now? Knowledge that it exists has already flushed out two witnesses willing to testify under oath. There's a whole nest of rats to be flushed out...bigjohnowls said:
Much more effective to produce it after the PM vehemently denied saying it I would have thought.Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .
*A mountain out of a molehill; more literally, a citadel out of shit.
There's real news going on. The problem is the real news doesn't suit those with an agenda to push. The real news is that things are going well here and awfully elsewhere and we should be discussing how can we move on from saving lives in this country to saving lives overseas in India and whereever else is struggling not this ridiculous petty shit.
Last week former Pentagon official Elizondo spoke candidly to a panel of mainstream journos, from NBC, NY Times, Fox etc...
https://youtu.be/E93eSVh1364
(video is part 1 of 3).
Says that UFO’s have remotely disarmed American nuclear missiles, though it was not understood if this was with hostile intent or an interference byproduct of their propulsion technology. That there’s video taken from 50 feet away “close enough to see there’s no rivets”, video that lasts 25 minutes, of craft exhibiting flight characteristics beyond our understanding of physics not just of how to propel something but how to stop it breaking up, corroborating telemetry not just from radar but by sonar (underwater) of craft travelling between air and water with no difference in performance.
The sceptic response: Lue Elizondo is kray kray and is making it up for money.
Harry Reid’s office in turn wrote a letter to the media yesterday confirming Elizondo’s role. Not something a former senate majority leader would do for a charlatan giving false testimony on intelligence for money or fame.
https://twitter.com/gadinbc/status/1386872125835812864?s=21
PB:
the Conservative party paid for Boris Johnson’s wallpaper and this is counts as money laundering!
Aliens 100/1
Not aliens 1/100
I realised I was being unbelievably generous.0 -
I suppose a ballsy young woman would see up the trans vote?Alphabet_Soup said:
I think the Daily Mail campaign is part of a deep 'Tories for Starmer' strategy aimed at preserving the current dreary leadership for as long as possible. If he scrapes home in Hartlepool and delivers a few extra council seats he'll be safe until 2024 - and a lot easier to beat than a ballsy young woman, of whom there are several waiting in the wings.kinabalu said:
This is the one I don't much care about. A tape would be nice (so as to get context and tone) but I doubt it will be him being anything other than a bit crass. You know what he's like, with all of that pseudy mock classical oratory he does. "Let the bodies pile high!". LOL. That really is "Boris being Boris".BluestBlue said:
And there we have it. What amazes me in particular is the confected outrage that a PM having to make life-and-death decisions in the middle on the greatest domestic crisis in 100 years might possibly have vented his emotions in his private office, which is now causing some histrionic types to faint like Victorian aunts exposed to a bare table leg.JohnLilburne said:
My take isScott_xP said:
It wasn't a loan, until it became public knowledge.Chameleon said:I'm still not seeing where the corruption is in taking a loan from his own party.
(a) the taxpayer (his landlord) (ie me) didn't pay for it. That is good.
(b) who gives a flying f*** what Boris says in private? We already know he likes flowery language.
I reckon that's how the average Tory-inclined voter will think, too.
Unfortunately it's hiding lots of more real stuff, like cronyism, conflict of interest, etc.
And I thought Dominic Cummings was a contemptible little man, none of what he says is to be believed. Suddenly he is He Who Talks Truth To Power. Laughable.
The other stuff, though, is and ought to be a concern, regardless of one's political leanings. The evidence is mounting up that he's a wrong un.1 -
Its like when they wheel.out the previous boss of standards... Graham. He is an ex? Labour MP and does not exactly seem as impartial as one might think.Nemtynakht said:
I'll say what I said weeks ago about current 'scandals'. Saying something behind closed doors when we don't know the context, or seeking alternative ways to pay for a refurb. These don't seem overly scandalous to me. People were jailed after MPs expenses and cash for questions.GIN1138 said:
Personally I still don't think the the decor/furnishings stuff is going anywhere. Boris can brazen that out.CarlottaVance said:What achieves “cut through” and enters the public consciousness, and which stories remain confined to the Westminster bubble, is part of the art and alchemy of politics. Having an eye for the difference between what gets voters excited and what makes people in Westminster excitable is key to successful political communications.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5d2e7434-a6b0-11eb-b000-cc13f23b4eff
The "pile bodies high" remark is much more damaging and will cut through with the public though. That's absolutely terrible for Boris if proven to be true.
Whilst they will role up the usual suspects on here who would find a way to criticise Boris if he came round to there house and brought them s present (Nurses deserve presents more than me, hasn't he got anything better to do!), I can't see the cut through in the general population in the way duck houses on moats, or Barnard castle have.0 -
The interesting thing, if we get a result like this, (ie, no SNP maj but Alba representation and overall pro-Indy maj) will be: how does Salmond play it?HYUFD said:
So SNP down 3 seats on the 63 it got in 2016 and Boris will of course easily refuse indyref2 which he will, Sturgeon will be humiliated going from an SNP landslide last year to no SNP majority at all.Gallowgate said:
So +9 seats in favour of independence. I can hear the frothing from Epping Forest already.TheWhiteRabbit said:
BallotBoxScotland apply their own model:ping said:https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1386964900589805572?s=20
This must hit the SNP’s constituency seats. Is there a calculator anywhere?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1386953196623519744
No SNP majority as in 2011, no grounds whatsoever for an indyref2
Does he:
1) Back up Sturgeon demands for IndyRef2 in the face of Boris refusal and, essentially, go quiet (relatively)
or
2) Blame her for underwhelming performance and letting down the Yes movement?
1 -
The thought of you and I still tumbling around on here in 2029 - and thus me being able to collect - is not one I wish to face.Philip_Thompson said:
Far more likely he'll be in office around a decade than out of it this year. 2024 and then either 2028 or 2029 before handing over is probably around a 50/50 shot at the minute.kinabalu said:
Apart from "Boris" instead of "Johnson" - c'mon! - a super post from you here, Al.Northern_Al said:On Boris, none of the current stories will bring him down, obviously. Not the redecoration. Nor the intemperate remarks. Nor the cronyism/mates' contracts. Nor the failure to replace Alex Allan. Nor the failure to update the Register of Members' Interests. Nor the failure to sack Patel for breaching the Ministerial Code. Nor the loss of lives to Covid. Nor the money wasted on track and trace. Nor Greensill and Cameron. I could go on. Individually, each of these does not have cut through. But collectively, they might, as a narrative of sleaze and cronyism is building.
I agree with those who argue that despite the Tories being more or less in power for 11 years, the Boris government really is brand new. And it's been in power less than 18 months. It usually takes a lot longer than that for sleaze allegations to take hold. In this respect, this government is performing more swiftly than any predecessor I can think of. I'm beginning to wonder if Boris will survive as long as I'd previously assumed. Government/ministerial/civil service self-discipline seems to be severely lacking, and the level of leaks and smears so early in Boris's reign does not augur well for a prolonged Johnson premiership. Hope I'm right (though I'll probably change my mind next week).
Way I see it, he'll be around for a while yet, but the frightful notion of "PM for a decade or more" is receding. Great, because I was starting to give that some credence and it was making me feel a bit ill.
But if it weren't for that I'd lay you an unlimited sum at 50/50 evens on Johnson being PM then.0 -
I'd stick the probability of aliens being out there at ~ 1, and the probability we'll make contact at 0.
The sheer size of the universe is a big issue; likely several civilisations out there all wondering if anyone else is out there - just all too far apart to reach each other.3 -
Ta. I’ll take the long odds there. You should be aware that bookmakers stopped offering these bets after the odds came into single digits.ping said:
Change in the odds. See my edited post.moonshine said:
Thanks for the quote, what size are you accepting?ping said:
UFO betting dot commoonshine said:
More real news:Philip_Thompson said:
When the real news going on in the world includes people building funeral pyres in India because they're so overwhelmed, while in the UK we're virtually Covid-free and planning on unlocking permanently - to be banging on about private conversations allegedly had months ago is petty meaningless crap.BluestBlue said:
And at the end of the day this new Star Chamber will have proved ... what? That the PM might have said something in anger in his private office that didn't change policy in the slightest because the decision had already been made? This supposedly high crime is really just another arx e cloaca * for Boris' detractors to toss themselves off over until he mysteriously rises in the polls again and they retire in state of perplexity, if not apoplexy...RochdalePioneers said:
Exactly. Why produce it now? Knowledge that it exists has already flushed out two witnesses willing to testify under oath. There's a whole nest of rats to be flushed out...bigjohnowls said:
Much more effective to produce it after the PM vehemently denied saying it I would have thought.Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .
*A mountain out of a molehill; more literally, a citadel out of shit.
There's real news going on. The problem is the real news doesn't suit those with an agenda to push. The real news is that things are going well here and awfully elsewhere and we should be discussing how can we move on from saving lives in this country to saving lives overseas in India and whereever else is struggling not this ridiculous petty shit.
Last week former Pentagon official Elizondo spoke candidly to a panel of mainstream journos, from NBC, NY Times, Fox etc...
https://youtu.be/E93eSVh1364
(video is part 1 of 3).
Says that UFO’s have remotely disarmed American nuclear missiles, though it was not understood if this was with hostile intent or an interference byproduct of their propulsion technology. That there’s video taken from 50 feet away “close enough to see there’s no rivets”, video that lasts 25 minutes, of craft exhibiting flight characteristics beyond our understanding of physics not just of how to propel something but how to stop it breaking up, corroborating telemetry not just from radar but by sonar (underwater) of craft travelling between air and water with no difference in performance.
The sceptic response: Lue Elizondo is kray kray and is making it up for money.
Harry Reid’s office in turn wrote a letter to the media yesterday confirming Elizondo’s role. Not something a former senate majority leader would do for a charlatan giving false testimony on intelligence for money or fame.
https://twitter.com/gadinbc/status/1386872125835812864?s=21
PB:
the Conservative party paid for Boris Johnson’s wallpaper and this is counts as money laundering!
Aliens 100/1
Not aliens 1/100
I realised I was being unbelievably generous.0 -
I'd say the odds of them existing somewhere in the universe are the other way around. However, the question is to as to whether we would come into contact with them. That is the known unknown in my view!ping said:
UFO betting dot commoonshine said:
More real news:Philip_Thompson said:
When the real news going on in the world includes people building funeral pyres in India because they're so overwhelmed, while in the UK we're virtually Covid-free and planning on unlocking permanently - to be banging on about private conversations allegedly had months ago is petty meaningless crap.BluestBlue said:
And at the end of the day this new Star Chamber will have proved ... what? That the PM might have said something in anger in his private office that didn't change policy in the slightest because the decision had already been made? This supposedly high crime is really just another arx e cloaca * for Boris' detractors to toss themselves off over until he mysteriously rises in the polls again and they retire in state of perplexity, if not apoplexy...RochdalePioneers said:
Exactly. Why produce it now? Knowledge that it exists has already flushed out two witnesses willing to testify under oath. There's a whole nest of rats to be flushed out...bigjohnowls said:
Much more effective to produce it after the PM vehemently denied saying it I would have thought.Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .
*A mountain out of a molehill; more literally, a citadel out of shit.
There's real news going on. The problem is the real news doesn't suit those with an agenda to push. The real news is that things are going well here and awfully elsewhere and we should be discussing how can we move on from saving lives in this country to saving lives overseas in India and whereever else is struggling not this ridiculous petty shit.
Last week former Pentagon official Elizondo spoke candidly to a panel of mainstream journos, from NBC, NY Times, Fox etc...
https://youtu.be/E93eSVh1364
(video is part 1 of 3).
Says that UFO’s have remotely disarmed American nuclear missiles, though it was not understood if this was with hostile intent or an interference byproduct of their propulsion technology. That there’s video taken from 50 feet away “close enough to see there’s no rivets”, video that lasts 25 minutes, of craft exhibiting flight characteristics beyond our understanding of physics not just of how to propel something but how to stop it breaking up, corroborating telemetry not just from radar but by sonar (underwater) of craft travelling between air and water with no difference in performance.
The sceptic response: Lue Elizondo is kray kray and is making it up for money.
Harry Reid’s office in turn wrote a letter to the media yesterday confirming Elizondo’s role. Not something a former senate majority leader would do for a charlatan giving false testimony on intelligence for money or fame.
https://twitter.com/gadinbc/status/1386872125835812864?s=21
PB:
the Conservative party paid for Boris Johnson’s wallpaper and this is counts as money laundering!
Aliens 10000/1
Not aliens 1/100000 -
"Tyne Tees"?Brom said:
But if they lose Hartlepool, Tyne Tees and West Midlands and lose London its obvious what the media narrative will be, and it won't be kind to Starmer.HYUFD said:
On yesterday's Mori Labour will gain a lot of county council seats from the Tories next week and win London by a landslide and comfortably hold Wales even if they lose Hartlepool (which has special circumstances due to the high BXP vote in 2019).Brom said:If Starmer loses Hartlepool and has a bad election I'd be surprised if there aren't rumblings of a leadership challenge. Why should the left of the party sit back and accept electoral defeat in 2024? Owen Smith has made the argument on behalf of the Labour left (though I dont expect they have anyone who can beat Starmer).
On today's Panelbase in Scotland Labour will also overtake the Conservatives for second at Holyrood and prevent the SNP getting a majority0 -
POLL:
* Boris Johnson seen as ‘untrustworthy’ by six in 10 voters (59% untrustworthy/ 35% not trustworthy)
* Keir Starmer has better trust rating (42% trustworthy / 41% not trustworthy)
@IpsosMORI in tonight's @EveningStandard
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-untrustworthy-poll-keir-starmer-ipsos-mori-poll-b931903.html1 -
The alpha and omega of my economic knowledge is the used car and parts market. Up until about March this year it was red hot. I made over 20 grand flipping two 911s in under six months. I saw Cat S BMWs going for insane prices on Copart. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Now the arse is dropping out of it. I've just bought an entire 997 Carrera S drivetrain for crack money.TOPPING said:
We have all forgotten the accepted truths of our discussions last year whereby we agreed that many on furlough no longer actually had jobs but haven't been formally let go yet.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1386986988612554752
There is a ticking time bomb coming. This is not going to be a nice decade.
Anecdotally, I was cycling along Hammersmith, King St the other day. I would say one in every three or four shops wasn't coming back.0 -
Obviously 1. He wants independence more than anything.Burgessian said:
The interesting thing, if we get a result like this, (ie, no SNP maj but Alba representation and overall pro-Indy maj) will be: how does Salmond play it?HYUFD said:
So SNP down 3 seats on the 63 it got in 2016 and Boris will of course easily refuse indyref2 which he will, Sturgeon will be humiliated going from an SNP landslide last year to no SNP majority at all.Gallowgate said:
So +9 seats in favour of independence. I can hear the frothing from Epping Forest already.TheWhiteRabbit said:
BallotBoxScotland apply their own model:ping said:https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1386964900589805572?s=20
This must hit the SNP’s constituency seats. Is there a calculator anywhere?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1386953196623519744
No SNP majority as in 2011, no grounds whatsoever for an indyref2
Does he:
1) Back up Sturgeon demands for IndyRef2 in the face of Boris refusal and, essentially, go quiet (relatively)
or
2) Blame her for underwhelming performance and letting down the Yes movement?0 -
You need special pleading to think we're the only civilisation that's ever existed, anywhere. Admitedly that special pleading has gone on for a few thousand years.AlistairM said:
I'd say the odds of them existing somewhere in the universe are the other way around. However, the question is to as to whether we would come into contact with them. That is the known unknown in my view!ping said:
UFO betting dot commoonshine said:
More real news:Philip_Thompson said:
When the real news going on in the world includes people building funeral pyres in India because they're so overwhelmed, while in the UK we're virtually Covid-free and planning on unlocking permanently - to be banging on about private conversations allegedly had months ago is petty meaningless crap.BluestBlue said:
And at the end of the day this new Star Chamber will have proved ... what? That the PM might have said something in anger in his private office that didn't change policy in the slightest because the decision had already been made? This supposedly high crime is really just another arx e cloaca * for Boris' detractors to toss themselves off over until he mysteriously rises in the polls again and they retire in state of perplexity, if not apoplexy...RochdalePioneers said:
Exactly. Why produce it now? Knowledge that it exists has already flushed out two witnesses willing to testify under oath. There's a whole nest of rats to be flushed out...bigjohnowls said:
Much more effective to produce it after the PM vehemently denied saying it I would have thought.Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .
*A mountain out of a molehill; more literally, a citadel out of shit.
There's real news going on. The problem is the real news doesn't suit those with an agenda to push. The real news is that things are going well here and awfully elsewhere and we should be discussing how can we move on from saving lives in this country to saving lives overseas in India and whereever else is struggling not this ridiculous petty shit.
Last week former Pentagon official Elizondo spoke candidly to a panel of mainstream journos, from NBC, NY Times, Fox etc...
https://youtu.be/E93eSVh1364
(video is part 1 of 3).
Says that UFO’s have remotely disarmed American nuclear missiles, though it was not understood if this was with hostile intent or an interference byproduct of their propulsion technology. That there’s video taken from 50 feet away “close enough to see there’s no rivets”, video that lasts 25 minutes, of craft exhibiting flight characteristics beyond our understanding of physics not just of how to propel something but how to stop it breaking up, corroborating telemetry not just from radar but by sonar (underwater) of craft travelling between air and water with no difference in performance.
The sceptic response: Lue Elizondo is kray kray and is making it up for money.
Harry Reid’s office in turn wrote a letter to the media yesterday confirming Elizondo’s role. Not something a former senate majority leader would do for a charlatan giving false testimony on intelligence for money or fame.
https://twitter.com/gadinbc/status/1386872125835812864?s=21
PB:
the Conservative party paid for Boris Johnson’s wallpaper and this is counts as money laundering!
Aliens 10000/1
Not aliens 1/100000 -
But will it translate into the voting next weekScott_xP said:POLL:
* Boris Johnson seen as ‘untrustworthy’ by six in 10 voters (59% untrustworthy/ 35% not trustworthy)
* Keir Starmer has better trust rating (42% trustworthy / 41% not trustworthy)
@IpsosMORI in tonight's @EveningStandard
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-untrustworthy-poll-keir-starmer-ipsos-mori-poll-b931903.html
There lies your question0 -
As you know, special interest groups are additive in current Labour theory. Just keep accumulating them until the balance finally tips. Not 'one more heave' but rather 'one more drop in the bucket'.Charles said:
I suppose a ballsy young woman would see up the trans vote?Alphabet_Soup said:
I think the Daily Mail campaign is part of a deep 'Tories for Starmer' strategy aimed at preserving the current dreary leadership for as long as possible. If he scrapes home in Hartlepool and delivers a few extra council seats he'll be safe until 2024 - and a lot easier to beat than a ballsy young woman, of whom there are several waiting in the wings.kinabalu said:
This is the one I don't much care about. A tape would be nice (so as to get context and tone) but I doubt it will be him being anything other than a bit crass. You know what he's like, with all of that pseudy mock classical oratory he does. "Let the bodies pile high!". LOL. That really is "Boris being Boris".BluestBlue said:
And there we have it. What amazes me in particular is the confected outrage that a PM having to make life-and-death decisions in the middle on the greatest domestic crisis in 100 years might possibly have vented his emotions in his private office, which is now causing some histrionic types to faint like Victorian aunts exposed to a bare table leg.JohnLilburne said:
My take isScott_xP said:
It wasn't a loan, until it became public knowledge.Chameleon said:I'm still not seeing where the corruption is in taking a loan from his own party.
(a) the taxpayer (his landlord) (ie me) didn't pay for it. That is good.
(b) who gives a flying f*** what Boris says in private? We already know he likes flowery language.
I reckon that's how the average Tory-inclined voter will think, too.
Unfortunately it's hiding lots of more real stuff, like cronyism, conflict of interest, etc.
And I thought Dominic Cummings was a contemptible little man, none of what he says is to be believed. Suddenly he is He Who Talks Truth To Power. Laughable.
The other stuff, though, is and ought to be a concern, regardless of one's political leanings. The evidence is mounting up that he's a wrong un.0 -
That is all well and good but this is a political site. What is your explanation for the very senior political figures on both sides of the aisle making the statements that they have in the last 6-12 months? What is the big conspiracy that gets all on the same side Harry Reid, Trump’s National Intelligence Director, Clinton’s head of the CIA and Marco Rubio. All saying things that in the eyes of many, indicate mental illness?Pulpstar said:I'd stick the probability of aliens being out there at ~ 1, and the probability we'll make contact at 0.
The sheer size of the universe is a big issue; likely several civilisations out there all wondering if anyone else is out there - just all too far apart to reach each other.0 -
Timeline
On Wed eve I emailed cabinet office to say I’d be writing the next day about Simon Case taking charge of flat refurb mess.
CO informed No10 of my inquiry that night, which was 🤨
Then Thur 👇 says Case told Johnson he would have to pay up...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/26/boris-johnson-isolated-and-at-risk-of-becoming-uncontrollable0 -
There's a time issue as well as space.Pulpstar said:I'd stick the probability of aliens being out there at ~ 1, and the probability we'll make contact at 0.
The sheer size of the universe is a big issue; likely several civilisations out there all wondering if anyone else is out there - just all too far apart to reach each other.
There might have been a technologically advanced civilisation within 1000 light years at some point - but chances are that it did so during the time of the dinosaurs, rather than now.
Which also raises another possibility. If there were dinosaurs that developed advanced technology - would there be any evidence of it left?0 -
If Boris Johnson is untrustworthy, then why did 500-odd MPs troop through the lobbies to grant him, his government and his advisors more power than any PM since Churchill in WW2?Big_G_NorthWales said:
But will it translate into the voting next weekScott_xP said:POLL:
* Boris Johnson seen as ‘untrustworthy’ by six in 10 voters (59% untrustworthy/ 35% not trustworthy)
* Keir Starmer has better trust rating (42% trustworthy / 41% not trustworthy)
@IpsosMORI in tonight's @EveningStandard
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-untrustworthy-poll-keir-starmer-ipsos-mori-poll-b931903.html
There lies your question
How can you criticise someone you are enabling? The opposition's position is absurd.1 -
Haven't we already?AlistairM said:
I'd say the odds of them existing somewhere in the universe are the other way around. However, the question is to as to whether we would come into contact with them. That is the known unknown in my view!ping said:
UFO betting dot commoonshine said:
More real news:Philip_Thompson said:
When the real news going on in the world includes people building funeral pyres in India because they're so overwhelmed, while in the UK we're virtually Covid-free and planning on unlocking permanently - to be banging on about private conversations allegedly had months ago is petty meaningless crap.BluestBlue said:
And at the end of the day this new Star Chamber will have proved ... what? That the PM might have said something in anger in his private office that didn't change policy in the slightest because the decision had already been made? This supposedly high crime is really just another arx e cloaca * for Boris' detractors to toss themselves off over until he mysteriously rises in the polls again and they retire in state of perplexity, if not apoplexy...RochdalePioneers said:
Exactly. Why produce it now? Knowledge that it exists has already flushed out two witnesses willing to testify under oath. There's a whole nest of rats to be flushed out...bigjohnowls said:
Much more effective to produce it after the PM vehemently denied saying it I would have thought.Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .
*A mountain out of a molehill; more literally, a citadel out of shit.
There's real news going on. The problem is the real news doesn't suit those with an agenda to push. The real news is that things are going well here and awfully elsewhere and we should be discussing how can we move on from saving lives in this country to saving lives overseas in India and whereever else is struggling not this ridiculous petty shit.
Last week former Pentagon official Elizondo spoke candidly to a panel of mainstream journos, from NBC, NY Times, Fox etc...
https://youtu.be/E93eSVh1364
(video is part 1 of 3).
Says that UFO’s have remotely disarmed American nuclear missiles, though it was not understood if this was with hostile intent or an interference byproduct of their propulsion technology. That there’s video taken from 50 feet away “close enough to see there’s no rivets”, video that lasts 25 minutes, of craft exhibiting flight characteristics beyond our understanding of physics not just of how to propel something but how to stop it breaking up, corroborating telemetry not just from radar but by sonar (underwater) of craft travelling between air and water with no difference in performance.
The sceptic response: Lue Elizondo is kray kray and is making it up for money.
Harry Reid’s office in turn wrote a letter to the media yesterday confirming Elizondo’s role. Not something a former senate majority leader would do for a charlatan giving false testimony on intelligence for money or fame.
https://twitter.com/gadinbc/status/1386872125835812864?s=21
PB:
the Conservative party paid for Boris Johnson’s wallpaper and this is counts as money laundering!
Aliens 10000/1
Not aliens 1/100000 -
He's safe regardless of Hartlepool. A loss there is expected and a win would be a boost. But he will come under pressure if in a year from now there's no personal cut-through and the polls are still bad. If he does go before the GE, I agree it has to be a woman. I voted for Nandy last time and I probably would again.Alphabet_Soup said:
I think the Daily Mail campaign is part of a deep 'Tories for Starmer' strategy aimed at preserving the current dreary leadership for as long as possible. If he scrapes home in Hartlepool and delivers a few extra council seats he'll be safe until 2024 - and a lot easier to beat than a ballsy young woman, of whom there are several waiting in the wings.kinabalu said:
This is the one I don't much care about. A tape would be nice (so as to get context and tone) but I doubt it will be him being anything other than a bit crass. You know what he's like, with all of that pseudy mock classical oratory he does. "Let the bodies pile high!". LOL. That really is "Boris being Boris".BluestBlue said:
And there we have it. What amazes me in particular is the confected outrage that a PM having to make life-and-death decisions in the middle on the greatest domestic crisis in 100 years might possibly have vented his emotions in his private office, which is now causing some histrionic types to faint like Victorian aunts exposed to a bare table leg.JohnLilburne said:
My take isScott_xP said:
It wasn't a loan, until it became public knowledge.Chameleon said:I'm still not seeing where the corruption is in taking a loan from his own party.
(a) the taxpayer (his landlord) (ie me) didn't pay for it. That is good.
(b) who gives a flying f*** what Boris says in private? We already know he likes flowery language.
I reckon that's how the average Tory-inclined voter will think, too.
Unfortunately it's hiding lots of more real stuff, like cronyism, conflict of interest, etc.
And I thought Dominic Cummings was a contemptible little man, none of what he says is to be believed. Suddenly he is He Who Talks Truth To Power. Laughable.
The other stuff, though, is and ought to be a concern, regardless of one's political leanings. The evidence is mounting up that he's a wrong un.0 -
Charles.Charles said:
I suppose a ballsy young woman would see up the trans vote?Alphabet_Soup said:
I think the Daily Mail campaign is part of a deep 'Tories for Starmer' strategy aimed at preserving the current dreary leadership for as long as possible. If he scrapes home in Hartlepool and delivers a few extra council seats he'll be safe until 2024 - and a lot easier to beat than a ballsy young woman, of whom there are several waiting in the wings.kinabalu said:
This is the one I don't much care about. A tape would be nice (so as to get context and tone) but I doubt it will be him being anything other than a bit crass. You know what he's like, with all of that pseudy mock classical oratory he does. "Let the bodies pile high!". LOL. That really is "Boris being Boris".BluestBlue said:
And there we have it. What amazes me in particular is the confected outrage that a PM having to make life-and-death decisions in the middle on the greatest domestic crisis in 100 years might possibly have vented his emotions in his private office, which is now causing some histrionic types to faint like Victorian aunts exposed to a bare table leg.JohnLilburne said:
My take isScott_xP said:
It wasn't a loan, until it became public knowledge.Chameleon said:I'm still not seeing where the corruption is in taking a loan from his own party.
(a) the taxpayer (his landlord) (ie me) didn't pay for it. That is good.
(b) who gives a flying f*** what Boris says in private? We already know he likes flowery language.
I reckon that's how the average Tory-inclined voter will think, too.
Unfortunately it's hiding lots of more real stuff, like cronyism, conflict of interest, etc.
And I thought Dominic Cummings was a contemptible little man, none of what he says is to be believed. Suddenly he is He Who Talks Truth To Power. Laughable.
The other stuff, though, is and ought to be a concern, regardless of one's political leanings. The evidence is mounting up that he's a wrong un.0 -
However if they've had several million years since discovering space transport who says that they haven't been sending out colony ships and the like, or even discovered FTL travel, or some other thing that we haven't imagined yet. What if life on other planets doesn't need water? There's just so much that we don't know that we don't know.LostPassword said:
There's a time issue as well as space.Pulpstar said:I'd stick the probability of aliens being out there at ~ 1, and the probability we'll make contact at 0.
The sheer size of the universe is a big issue; likely several civilisations out there all wondering if anyone else is out there - just all too far apart to reach each other.
There might have been a technologically advanced civilisation within 1000 light years at some point - but chances are that it did so during the time of the dinosaurs, rather than now.
Which also raises another possibility. If there were dinosaurs that developed advanced technology - would there be any evidence of it left?0 -
In decreasing order of plausibility:moonshine said:
That is all well and good but this is a political site. What is your explanation for the very senior political figures on both sides of the aisle making the statements that they have in the last 6-12 months? What is the big conspiracy that gets all on the same side Harry Reid, Trump’s National Intelligence Director, Clinton’s head of the CIA and Marco Rubio. All saying things that in the eyes of many, indicate mental illness?Pulpstar said:I'd stick the probability of aliens being out there at ~ 1, and the probability we'll make contact at 0.
The sheer size of the universe is a big issue; likely several civilisations out there all wondering if anyone else is out there - just all too far apart to reach each other.
1: They said something innocent that is misconstrued by loons to be aliens.
2: They said something dishonest for a political agenda, eg to get more money to Defence.
3: Some other explanation.
98: They are loons.
99: Mulder was right, the truth is out there.2 -
They don't have evidence of aliens. They have evidence of things that we can't explain. Aliens are a possible explanation, but there may be others.moonshine said:
That is all well and good but this is a political site. What is your explanation for the very senior political figures on both sides of the aisle making the statements that they have in the last 6-12 months? What is the big conspiracy that gets all on the same side Harry Reid, Trump’s National Intelligence Director, Clinton’s head of the CIA and Marco Rubio. All saying things that in the eyes of many, indicate mental illness?Pulpstar said:I'd stick the probability of aliens being out there at ~ 1, and the probability we'll make contact at 0.
The sheer size of the universe is a big issue; likely several civilisations out there all wondering if anyone else is out there - just all too far apart to reach each other.
Before special relativity wobbles observed in the orbit of Mercury were thought to indicate the existence of another planet, closer to the sun. But no direct evidence of such a planet was found.
UFOs are Unidentified Flying Objects, just as the wobbles in Mercury's orbit were Unexplained Orbital Perturbations. Get back to me when UFOs become AFOs - Alien Flying Objects.1 -
I think it's just us. Quite a thought. Either terrible or glorious depending on mindset.Pulpstar said:I'd stick the probability of aliens being out there at ~ 1, and the probability we'll make contact at 0.
The sheer size of the universe is a big issue; likely several civilisations out there all wondering if anyone else is out there - just all too far apart to reach each other.0 -
I think there are several uncertainties here. We know that life can exist on earth, and we know that other earth-like planets exist, presumably, given the vastness of the universe, in hugely plentiful numbers. However:Pulpstar said:
You need special pleading to think we're the only civilisation that's ever existed, anywhere. Admitedly that special pleading has gone on for a few thousand years.AlistairM said:
I'd say the odds of them existing somewhere in the universe are the other way around. However, the question is to as to whether we would come into contact with them. That is the known unknown in my view!ping said:
UFO betting dot commoonshine said:
More real news:Philip_Thompson said:
When the real news going on in the world includes people building funeral pyres in India because they're so overwhelmed, while in the UK we're virtually Covid-free and planning on unlocking permanently - to be banging on about private conversations allegedly had months ago is petty meaningless crap.BluestBlue said:
And at the end of the day this new Star Chamber will have proved ... what? That the PM might have said something in anger in his private office that didn't change policy in the slightest because the decision had already been made? This supposedly high crime is really just another arx e cloaca * for Boris' detractors to toss themselves off over until he mysteriously rises in the polls again and they retire in state of perplexity, if not apoplexy...RochdalePioneers said:
Exactly. Why produce it now? Knowledge that it exists has already flushed out two witnesses willing to testify under oath. There's a whole nest of rats to be flushed out...bigjohnowls said:
Much more effective to produce it after the PM vehemently denied saying it I would have thought.Charles said:
How long does it take to hand over a recording? If it existed it would have been delivered by nowbigjohnowls said:
Multiple sources and a recording due in next couple of days.NerysHughes said:
What evidence do you have that he said these remarks?nico679 said:Its irrelevant whether Johnson went on to bring in further lockdowns . The defense from some is he did the right thing anyway which completely misses the point . The issue is he viewed more bodies piling up as a price worth paying if he kept the economy open.
There are of course always a range of factors when politicians have to make these difficult decisions , balancing the risk to life v damage to the economy . However it’s the callous nature of the comments and the dismissive tone of the people who could die that is the real problem for no 10 .
*A mountain out of a molehill; more literally, a citadel out of shit.
There's real news going on. The problem is the real news doesn't suit those with an agenda to push. The real news is that things are going well here and awfully elsewhere and we should be discussing how can we move on from saving lives in this country to saving lives overseas in India and whereever else is struggling not this ridiculous petty shit.
Last week former Pentagon official Elizondo spoke candidly to a panel of mainstream journos, from NBC, NY Times, Fox etc...
https://youtu.be/E93eSVh1364
(video is part 1 of 3).
Says that UFO’s have remotely disarmed American nuclear missiles, though it was not understood if this was with hostile intent or an interference byproduct of their propulsion technology. That there’s video taken from 50 feet away “close enough to see there’s no rivets”, video that lasts 25 minutes, of craft exhibiting flight characteristics beyond our understanding of physics not just of how to propel something but how to stop it breaking up, corroborating telemetry not just from radar but by sonar (underwater) of craft travelling between air and water with no difference in performance.
The sceptic response: Lue Elizondo is kray kray and is making it up for money.
Harry Reid’s office in turn wrote a letter to the media yesterday confirming Elizondo’s role. Not something a former senate majority leader would do for a charlatan giving false testimony on intelligence for money or fame.
https://twitter.com/gadinbc/status/1386872125835812864?s=21
PB:
the Conservative party paid for Boris Johnson’s wallpaper and this is counts as money laundering!
Aliens 10000/1
Not aliens 1/10000
- What are the chances of life of any chance starting? I really don't think we know. From this perspective - where life HAS started - it seems not unlikely - but is it a one in a thousand years event? Once in a million years? Once in ten billion years? Once in a hundred billion years? We really don't know how lucky we have been.
- Given that life has started, what are the chances of it descending from simple to complex. There are numerous unlikely things which have happened to get us here, one example being the emergence of sexual reproduction. How unlikely is this? Once in a million years? Once in a billion years? More?
We know the universe is vast. But we don't, I think, really know how unlikely our own existence - or the existence of what we might call intelligent life - is.
1 -
Why hasn't SETI found anything? If another species had discovered FTL travel (which is probably forever going to be science fiction) then we should have been colonised before now and there'd be evidence all over the stars.Chameleon said:
However if they've had several million years since discovering space transport who says that they haven't been sending out colony ships and the like, or even discovered FTL travel, or some other thing that we haven't imagined yet. What if life on other planets doesn't need water? There's just so much that we don't know that we don't know.LostPassword said:
There's a time issue as well as space.Pulpstar said:I'd stick the probability of aliens being out there at ~ 1, and the probability we'll make contact at 0.
The sheer size of the universe is a big issue; likely several civilisations out there all wondering if anyone else is out there - just all too far apart to reach each other.
There might have been a technologically advanced civilisation within 1000 light years at some point - but chances are that it did so during the time of the dinosaurs, rather than now.
Which also raises another possibility. If there were dinosaurs that developed advanced technology - would there be any evidence of it left?
Once you have FTL then exponential growth probably takes over.1 -
There has never been such a rapid increase in atmospheric co2 in the observable record as now, and no signs of plastic sedimentation in the geological record as there will be from the 20th/21st centuries. But by itself it doesn’t rule out your hypothesis without presuming that any prior civilisation played out in the same way as humans and/or reached the same level of technological advancement. The other question is how hard has anyone actually looked?LostPassword said:
There's a time issue as well as space.Pulpstar said:I'd stick the probability of aliens being out there at ~ 1, and the probability we'll make contact at 0.
The sheer size of the universe is a big issue; likely several civilisations out there all wondering if anyone else is out there - just all too far apart to reach each other.
There might have been a technologically advanced civilisation within 1000 light years at some point - but chances are that it did so during the time of the dinosaurs, rather than now.
Which also raises another possibility. If there were dinosaurs that developed advanced technology - would there be any evidence of it left?
The sceptics would do well to listen carefully to Mr Elizondo. He does not profess to know what the phenomena are but says we are now well past the point of asking whether they exist. He gives compelling reasons why they cannot all be discounted as secret US or enemy military tech. Which leaves open a number of possibilities, mostly quite exotic from the perspective of academia.0 -
On 8 March, Allegra Stratton - at the time the PM's press secretary - told Lobby journalists: "Conservative Party funds are not being used to pay for any refurbishment of the Downing Street estate." This turns out not to be true. As I said yesterday, the Tory Party...
lent money to the prime minister to settle bills for the refurbishment of his flat above the shop. I assume Allegra Stratton - whom I worked with for years - must have been misled. The cabinet secretary Simon Case will presumably wish the record corrected ASAP.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/13870011890956902480 -
I wonder why they cancelled the on camera briefings..?0
-
The corollary is that, if those things had happened, then there would be aliens everywhere. They'd have been here before we started painting caves.Chameleon said:
However if they've had several million years since discovering space transport who says that they haven't been sending out colony ships and the like, or even discovered FTL travel, or some other thing that we haven't imagined yet. What if life on other planets doesn't need water? There's just so much that we don't know that we don't know.LostPassword said:
There's a time issue as well as space.Pulpstar said:I'd stick the probability of aliens being out there at ~ 1, and the probability we'll make contact at 0.
The sheer size of the universe is a big issue; likely several civilisations out there all wondering if anyone else is out there - just all too far apart to reach each other.
There might have been a technologically advanced civilisation within 1000 light years at some point - but chances are that it did so during the time of the dinosaurs, rather than now.
Which also raises another possibility. If there were dinosaurs that developed advanced technology - would there be any evidence of it left?
The absence of observations of aliens is pretty good evidence that (1) FTL travel isn't possible and (2) all good things come to an end (including spacefaring civilisations).2 -
I suspect that Grey Goo is the most likely form of alien that we make contact with. On that basis, I'd prefer if it stayed away.0
-
In my days as a journalist I once interviewed some aliens who were eager to make themselves known to our dear blue planet.
After an hour of intensive probing however they seemed much less keen on the idea.4 -
I say mental illness only comes in when people believe they have *proof* when, to an outside observer, there is no such proof. Also, if it’s causing them problems in their daily life - ie they’re scared to go out because the aliens are going to abduct them, or whatever. That’s mental illness.moonshine said:
That is all well and good but this is a political site. What is your explanation for the very senior political figures on both sides of the aisle making the statements that they have in the last 6-12 months? What is the big conspiracy that gets all on the same side Harry Reid, Trump’s National Intelligence Director, Clinton’s head of the CIA and Marco Rubio. All saying things that in the eyes of many, indicate mental illness?Pulpstar said:I'd stick the probability of aliens being out there at ~ 1, and the probability we'll make contact at 0.
The sheer size of the universe is a big issue; likely several civilisations out there all wondering if anyone else is out there - just all too far apart to reach each other.
Simply believing in something that is unproven isn’t mental illness. It’s belief. An almost universal human instinct that our society has mostly reasoned out way out of over the last few hundred years.
As for aliens, I’m with @Pulpstar
Very very likely they have existed and will, in future, exist. Quite likely they currently exist. Somewhere in our impossibly big universe.
Highly unlikely we’ll ever have any meaningful contact.
Almost impossible that they have recently, or currently visited/ing earth in a UFO.0 -
Probably for the same reason no prior PM has started them.Scott_xP said:I wonder why they cancelled the on camera briefings..?
The media and opposition scored a real own goal getting these cancelled. Couldn't see the bigger picture, idiots. 🤦🏻♂️0 -
UK politicians arent generally venally corrupt, the system doesnt allow it . They are flawed same as the rest of us.kinabalu said:
We're similar vintage, I sense. Although I'm not disclosing. Pagan thinks I'm 85 and Cookie thinks I'm 35. and I quite like what that implies about my posting.Alanbrooke said:
Im just older than you and have seen it all before.kinabalu said:
Ok. So you don't care about this stuff and never will.Alanbrooke said:kinabalu said:
The UK is "fretting" about the probity of its PM. This is allowed, I think, despite this being a big old complex world with lots of bad stuff going on.Alanbrooke said:
Putting things in contextPhilip_Thompson said:
The Daily Heil exists to whip up hate.RochdalePioneers said:
It was deliberate and it was done twice.Sean_F said:
When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.RochdalePioneers said:
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.moonshine said:
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.Roger said:
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it mattersScott_xP said:Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1
First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period
Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.
Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.
I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.
Its a shame you've succombed to its lure.
The UK is fretting about some wallpaper meanwhile
The head of the EU believes her priority is who gets to sit on a sofa first rather than the 1000s of her citizens dying each day
The french army is making noises about why it might be better if it ran the country instead of the fop president
https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/la-tribune-d-anciens-militaires-contre-le-delitement-de-la-france-enflamme-le-debat-politique-20210426
I think Ill stick with the wallpaper
LOL show me a UK PM whose probity wasnt questionable. Likewise a LOTO
"Man of the World" Alanbrooke. He knows how this dirty old world ticks. Seen it all, done it all.
LOL indeed.
To expect perfect politicians is just plain naive, they come as a package faults and all and we judge them on how well they run the country not on who they shag or how dodgy their mates are.
Thing is, when assessing politicians, there's a territory between (i) I don't give a shit how corrupt they are and (ii) I expect perfection, they should be saints. This is where I am and where I think everyone should be. It's a large territory so it's quite easy to find.
Excessive and performative cynicism, btw, is its own form of naivety. I diagnose it in you.
We judge them on what they do not on some arbitrary moral spectrum.0 -
0
-
No, obviously 2.Gallowgate said:
Obviously 1. He wants independence more than anything.Burgessian said:
The interesting thing, if we get a result like this, (ie, no SNP maj but Alba representation and overall pro-Indy maj) will be: how does Salmond play it?HYUFD said:
So SNP down 3 seats on the 63 it got in 2016 and Boris will of course easily refuse indyref2 which he will, Sturgeon will be humiliated going from an SNP landslide last year to no SNP majority at all.Gallowgate said:
So +9 seats in favour of independence. I can hear the frothing from Epping Forest already.TheWhiteRabbit said:
BallotBoxScotland apply their own model:ping said:https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1386964900589805572?s=20
This must hit the SNP’s constituency seats. Is there a calculator anywhere?
https://mobile.twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1386953196623519744
No SNP majority as in 2011, no grounds whatsoever for an indyref2
Does he:
1) Back up Sturgeon demands for IndyRef2 in the face of Boris refusal and, essentially, go quiet (relatively)
or
2) Blame her for underwhelming performance and letting down the Yes movement?
Salmond sees himself as Boris to Sturgeon's May.
If Sturgeon as now looks possible suffers a May 2017 style humiliation next week and loses SNP seats Salmond will be ready for hs revenge.
Boris will obviously refuse indyref2, Sturgeon even if she holds a non binding referendum will refuse to declare UDI which Salmond will demand and the split in the Nationalist side will be complete0 -
Philip given that you think this is a storm in a teacup content-wise, and yet all the papers are plastered with it, what do you think the political fallout/effect will be. Zero?Philip_Thompson said:
Probably for the same reason no prior PM has started them.Scott_xP said:I wonder why they cancelled the on camera briefings..?
The media and opposition scored a real own goal getting these cancelled. Couldn't see the bigger picture, idiots. 🤦🏻♂️0 -
I think we'd have detected any civilisation capable of FTL travel by now - assuming it's possible (It highly likely is not) the energy requirement would likely be so massive any Kardashev type III (Minimum) civilisation would have been discovered by SETI or whatnot.LostPassword said:
The corollary is that, if those things had happened, then there would be aliens everywhere. They'd have been here before we started painting caves.Chameleon said:
However if they've had several million years since discovering space transport who says that they haven't been sending out colony ships and the like, or even discovered FTL travel, or some other thing that we haven't imagined yet. What if life on other planets doesn't need water? There's just so much that we don't know that we don't know.LostPassword said:
There's a time issue as well as space.Pulpstar said:I'd stick the probability of aliens being out there at ~ 1, and the probability we'll make contact at 0.
The sheer size of the universe is a big issue; likely several civilisations out there all wondering if anyone else is out there - just all too far apart to reach each other.
There might have been a technologically advanced civilisation within 1000 light years at some point - but chances are that it did so during the time of the dinosaurs, rather than now.
Which also raises another possibility. If there were dinosaurs that developed advanced technology - would there be any evidence of it left?
The absence of observations of aliens is pretty good evidence that (1) FTL travel isn't possible and (2) all good things come to an end (including spacefaring civilisations).1 -
Possibly due to a significant national emergency.contrarian said:
If Boris Johnson is untrustworthy, then why did 500-odd MPs troop through the lobbies to grant him, his government and his advisors more power than any PM since Churchill in WW2?Big_G_NorthWales said:
But will it translate into the voting next weekScott_xP said:POLL:
* Boris Johnson seen as ‘untrustworthy’ by six in 10 voters (59% untrustworthy/ 35% not trustworthy)
* Keir Starmer has better trust rating (42% trustworthy / 41% not trustworthy)
@IpsosMORI in tonight's @EveningStandard
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-untrustworthy-poll-keir-starmer-ipsos-mori-poll-b931903.html
There lies your question
How can you criticise someone you are enabling? The opposition's position is absurd.
After all, not everyone trusted the double-rat Churchill, but they voted to give him massive powers as well.
It turns out to be somewhat correlated with national emergencies.1 -
Because we may not have the tech to see what other species send out, and who is to say that they just haven't reached us yet, or are waiting for the right time etc etc.Philip_Thompson said:
Why hasn't SETI found anything? If another species had discovered FTL travel (which is probably forever going to be science fiction) then we should have been colonised before now and there'd be evidence all over the stars.Chameleon said:
However if they've had several million years since discovering space transport who says that they haven't been sending out colony ships and the like, or even discovered FTL travel, or some other thing that we haven't imagined yet. What if life on other planets doesn't need water? There's just so much that we don't know that we don't know.LostPassword said:
There's a time issue as well as space.Pulpstar said:I'd stick the probability of aliens being out there at ~ 1, and the probability we'll make contact at 0.
The sheer size of the universe is a big issue; likely several civilisations out there all wondering if anyone else is out there - just all too far apart to reach each other.
There might have been a technologically advanced civilisation within 1000 light years at some point - but chances are that it did so during the time of the dinosaurs, rather than now.
Which also raises another possibility. If there were dinosaurs that developed advanced technology - would there be any evidence of it left?
Once you have FTL then exponential growth probably takes over.
The absence of evidence that we can detect is in itself not proof of there not being extra-terrestrial life. We are likely just a relatively primitive species, and you wouldn't claim that a chimp using a spade failing to detect microwaves is itself proof that microwaves don't exist.1 -
???Alanbrooke said:
UK politicians arent generally venally corrupt, the system doesnt allow it . They are flawed same as the rest of us.kinabalu said:
We're similar vintage, I sense. Although I'm not disclosing. Pagan thinks I'm 85 and Cookie thinks I'm 35. and I quite like what that implies about my posting.Alanbrooke said:
Im just older than you and have seen it all before.kinabalu said:
Ok. So you don't care about this stuff and never will.Alanbrooke said:kinabalu said:
The UK is "fretting" about the probity of its PM. This is allowed, I think, despite this being a big old complex world with lots of bad stuff going on.Alanbrooke said:
Putting things in contextPhilip_Thompson said:
The Daily Heil exists to whip up hate.RochdalePioneers said:
It was deliberate and it was done twice.Sean_F said:
When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.RochdalePioneers said:
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.moonshine said:
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.Roger said:
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it mattersScott_xP said:Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1
First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period
Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.
Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.
I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.
Its a shame you've succombed to its lure.
The UK is fretting about some wallpaper meanwhile
The head of the EU believes her priority is who gets to sit on a sofa first rather than the 1000s of her citizens dying each day
The french army is making noises about why it might be better if it ran the country instead of the fop president
https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/la-tribune-d-anciens-militaires-contre-le-delitement-de-la-france-enflamme-le-debat-politique-20210426
I think Ill stick with the wallpaper
LOL show me a UK PM whose probity wasnt questionable. Likewise a LOTO
"Man of the World" Alanbrooke. He knows how this dirty old world ticks. Seen it all, done it all.
LOL indeed.
To expect perfect politicians is just plain naive, they come as a package faults and all and we judge them on how well they run the country not on who they shag or how dodgy their mates are.
Thing is, when assessing politicians, there's a territory between (i) I don't give a shit how corrupt they are and (ii) I expect perfection, they should be saints. This is where I am and where I think everyone should be. It's a large territory so it's quite easy to find.
Excessive and performative cynicism, btw, is its own form of naivety. I diagnose it in you.
We judge them on what they do not on some arbitrary moral spectrum.
There's the fatal flaw in this one.0 -
Labour is not going to lose London whatever happens, indeed they are likely to make gains there in the Assembly even if they lose Hartlepool.Brom said:
But if they lose Hartlepool, Tyne Tees and West Midlands and lose London its obvious what the media narrative will be, and it won't be kind to Starmer.HYUFD said:
On yesterday's Mori Labour will gain a lot of county council seats from the Tories next week and win London by a landslide and comfortably hold Wales even if they lose Hartlepool (which has special circumstances due to the high BXP vote in 2019).Brom said:If Starmer loses Hartlepool and has a bad election I'd be surprised if there aren't rumblings of a leadership challenge. Why should the left of the party sit back and accept electoral defeat in 2024? Owen Smith has made the argument on behalf of the Labour left (though I dont expect they have anyone who can beat Starmer).
On today's Panelbase in Scotland Labour will also overtake the Conservatives for second at Holyrood and prevent the SNP getting a majority
Until all the council and Scotland results are in we cannot see a clear picture.
Hartlepool to me does not tell us much, even if the Labour party vote is up there the Tories will likely still win if they squeeze the huge 25% BXP vote.
Hartlepool is a distraction, it is the net change in English county and district and unitary council seats, in London Assembly and Scottish and Welsh Parliament seats that will really tell us what the picture is now1 -
https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1387006142753263616
Despite the Government's best efforts, the public are not fooled.0 -
Interesting question.TOPPING said:
Philip given that you think this is a storm in a teacup content-wise, and yet all the papers are plastered with it, what do you think the political fallout/effect will be. Zero?Philip_Thompson said:
Probably for the same reason no prior PM has started them.Scott_xP said:I wonder why they cancelled the on camera briefings..?
The media and opposition scored a real own goal getting these cancelled. Couldn't see the bigger picture, idiots. 🤦🏻♂️
For many months now all polls have been within Margin of Error of Con 42, Lab 36.
I suspect that in say two months time once this has all washed out and the initial post Local bounce has faded that polls will probably still be Margin of Error of Con 42, Lab 36.
So yes zero, within Margin of Error. Satisfied? What do you think?0 -
Given a pandemic, that may well be perfectly legalDetlef said:If I was the Opposition, I would be in a dilemma whether to portray Johnson as the Grim Reaper or as a cheerful undertaker.
Normally, Johnson would be finished by this. The only way it could get worse is if it is found that the Government signed contracts with a gravedigging firm associated with a Tory cabinet member without a tendering process.
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you mean you have a superior morality to everyone else on the board ? Interesting.kinabalu said:
???Alanbrooke said:
UK politicians arent generally venally corrupt, the system doesnt allow it . They are flawed same as the rest of us.kinabalu said:
We're similar vintage, I sense. Although I'm not disclosing. Pagan thinks I'm 85 and Cookie thinks I'm 35. and I quite like what that implies about my posting.Alanbrooke said:
Im just older than you and have seen it all before.kinabalu said:
Ok. So you don't care about this stuff and never will.Alanbrooke said:kinabalu said:
The UK is "fretting" about the probity of its PM. This is allowed, I think, despite this being a big old complex world with lots of bad stuff going on.Alanbrooke said:
Putting things in contextPhilip_Thompson said:
The Daily Heil exists to whip up hate.RochdalePioneers said:
It was deliberate and it was done twice.Sean_F said:
When you say "chose to kill" you alienate anyone who is not already convinced that Johnson is evil incarnate. There will be rage - among people who already agree that he is evil incarnate.RochdalePioneers said:
Family being the key word. The PM chose to kill members of lots of people's families to generate "Boris Saves Christmas" headlines. Now that the proof comes out, expect the anger to turn into rage.moonshine said:
I happen to be able to see the wood for the trees, as can SO. No one cares enough to get their blood pressure raised about these trivialities, apart from a tiny number of partisan political obsessives. The voters are too busy down the pub, playing golf, keeping their businesses afloat, making up for lost time with family etc... and they are the ones that have life right.Roger said:
That Johnson is a liar will not be news to anyone. The only attack that will work is convincing the thicko Johnson lovers-well represented on here-that it mattersScott_xP said:Two sources who claim Boris Johnson did say he would rather have ‘bodies pile high in their thousands’ than implement a third lockdown are prepared to speak publicly.
If the prime minister continues to deny it, they will speak under oath, says @Peston
https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-26/robert-peston-boris-johnson-did-make-bodies-pile-high-in-their-thousands-comment https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1386793997788663809/video/1
First - the policy to ship Covid patients into care homes from hospital with no testing allowed. Reports at the time of fraught care home staff arguing with ambulance crews that they wouldn't take the residents back, denials that it was policy until it was proven. Result - 20,000 dead in care homes in a short period
Second - the denial of the need to lock down through the winter. The declaration of the absurd 5 day period where Covid wouldn't get us. The Boris Saves Christmas headlines. Result? 68k cases a day in January. We haven't had the proof yet, but Cummings and now two other people have come forward to prove it.
Watch the Daily Mail. Their coverage at the moment is there to whip up a frenzy. Next they move into heart-rendering stories of people who lost their closest loved-ones as a direct result of this policy. We already had it on radio phone-ins yesterday, and the popular tabloids will be plastered with it.
I've been saying for months that this policy will sink him and that the Mail would go crazy over it. And here they are.
But its impact is rather trivial and its typically laughed at by most normal people.
Its a shame you've succombed to its lure.
The UK is fretting about some wallpaper meanwhile
The head of the EU believes her priority is who gets to sit on a sofa first rather than the 1000s of her citizens dying each day
The french army is making noises about why it might be better if it ran the country instead of the fop president
https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/la-tribune-d-anciens-militaires-contre-le-delitement-de-la-france-enflamme-le-debat-politique-20210426
I think Ill stick with the wallpaper
LOL show me a UK PM whose probity wasnt questionable. Likewise a LOTO
"Man of the World" Alanbrooke. He knows how this dirty old world ticks. Seen it all, done it all.
LOL indeed.
To expect perfect politicians is just plain naive, they come as a package faults and all and we judge them on how well they run the country not on who they shag or how dodgy their mates are.
Thing is, when assessing politicians, there's a territory between (i) I don't give a shit how corrupt they are and (ii) I expect perfection, they should be saints. This is where I am and where I think everyone should be. It's a large territory so it's quite easy to find.
Excessive and performative cynicism, btw, is its own form of naivety. I diagnose it in you.
We judge them on what they do not on some arbitrary moral spectrum.
There's the fatal flaw in this one.2 -
Johnson always wanted to be PM, but having got there realises that he hates the job. He has never been a hard worker, or interested in details, both requirements of being PM.
Added to which he has always been short of money, and is now stony broke, with a fiancée who has extravagant tastes. As PM he can't make money from writing or appearances or after dinner speaking. He lives in a goldfish bowl and can't go around shagging dizzy blondes.
He is desperate to get out. It would suit him fine to be an ex PM, on the circuit, doing his own thing.
He is probably delighted to have an exit route.
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Were the mainstream media banging on about Churchill's untrustworthiness during that emergency?Andy_Cooke said:
Possibly due to a significant national emergency.contrarian said:
If Boris Johnson is untrustworthy, then why did 500-odd MPs troop through the lobbies to grant him, his government and his advisors more power than any PM since Churchill in WW2?Big_G_NorthWales said:
But will it translate into the voting next weekScott_xP said:POLL:
* Boris Johnson seen as ‘untrustworthy’ by six in 10 voters (59% untrustworthy/ 35% not trustworthy)
* Keir Starmer has better trust rating (42% trustworthy / 41% not trustworthy)
@IpsosMORI in tonight's @EveningStandard
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-untrustworthy-poll-keir-starmer-ipsos-mori-poll-b931903.html
There lies your question
How can you criticise someone you are enabling? The opposition's position is absurd.
After all, not everyone trusted the double-rat Churchill, but they voted to give him massive powers as well.
It turns out to be somewhat correlated with national emergencies.
Were Clem Attlee and labour?
Were the public being polled on it?
Was Churchill being quizzed on his living arrangements at Downing Street or his comments about the risks of D-day and the possibility of heavy casualties?
I guess not. Criticism would have cut across the position the opposition had taken, which was to give Churchill the power the situation warranted.
Either shut up and accept him and his decisions or depower him and help to influence them yourselves.
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