We need to talk about antivaxxer GOPers – politicalbetting.com

TimT said:

But this looks remarkably like short term greed rather than longer term. That is good for the quarterly reports and hence executive compensation, but bad for shareholders and fans alike.

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Man Utd supporters trust CEO says he has not heard of anyone supporting the club who backs this , nor indeed from any other fans of other clubs

Asking for government intervention

This government says that greed is good.

It's bad for spotting integrity but good business. Which is a problem. 😟

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

I hope bookies open a market on whether a ball will be kicked in an ESL fixture in the next five years. I'd re-mortgage my house to pile on "no". All a negotiating ploy.

Indeed. Ain't going to happen.

Clubs joining an ESL would damage their brands short-run, and doom them long run.

Short run, they will lose a lot of the sense of place and history which, as Leon says, is an important part of the worldwide appeal.

They might, for a while, still have enough brand value to keep flogging shirts and so on. But they would struggle to attract the best players at the peak of their career. Kids still grow up dreaming of the Premier League (or La Liga or whatever), the Champions League, playing for their country. If these teams and players are excluded from that, they will become retirement homes for fading stars at the fag end of their careers, like the US, Japanese, and Chinese leagues. In the longer term, that kills the brand. They become historical relics, while the big stars build the brands outside the ESL - whether that's Bayern Munich, Ajax, and PSG; English teams like Everton, Aston Villa, and Leeds; or in a few years reborn clubs like "FC Liverpool" or "Arsenal '21".

I think the big clubs know that, and it's all a negotiating ploy for a bigger slice of pie. Just doesn't make sense as a genuine plan.

From the Pfizer CEO:

"@AlbertBourla

Pleased to announce that we will supply the @EU_Commission with 100M additional doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech #COVID19 vaccine this year, bringing the total number of doses to be delivered to the EU to 600M: https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-supply-european-union-100-million-0 (2/2)"

Endillion said:

contrarian said:

AlistairM said:

Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.

The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.

The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.

Again depends what you mean by fans.

Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?

They don't give a monkeys.

And that is where the growth is.

Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.

I think most of us agree on that (I certainly do). The question is whether the value to this country in increasing revenue from those places, at the cost of doing probably unfixable damage to one of our long-standing cultural institutions, is a worthwhile trade-off.

If you like, feel free to rewrite my previous sentence such that it's not immediately obvious what the answer should be.

The Premier League is not one of our long-standing cultural institutions.
Football is one of our long-standing cultural institutions. And football will continue being played, and watched, whatever a bunch of transient millionaires employed by another bunch of transient millionaires do.

The more I think about this, the keener I am on it. It feels like an Augean Stables moment. I just wish it had happened back in the mid-noughties when the top six and the England team were almost entirely devoid likeability.

"@C_Barraud
*JPMORGAN BETS $4.8B ON #SUPERLEAGUE AS CLUBS SIGN BINDING DEAL - BBG"

https://twitter.com/C_Barraud/status/1384122900064587779

williamglenn said:

From the Pfizer CEO:

"@AlbertBourla

Pleased to announce that we will supply the @EU_Commission with 100M additional doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech #COVID19 vaccine this year, bringing the total number of doses to be delivered to the EU to 600M: https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-supply-european-union-100-million-0 (2/2)"

whih considering many countries, at great cost, are going all-in on it it's nothing like enough - in Denmark we are banking now on delivery of Pfizer because Moderna deliveries are much lower than desired, no AZ and we are banking on Johnson and Johnson but having banned AZ it's going to be funny watching our idiot medicines regulator produce a justification for J&J.

We are though going to be allowed to volunteer "at our own risk" to have one of the AZ doses that otherwise will be chucked - BUT they are going to delay this so long that in the SSIs own words - the point of it will be lost by the time it happens.

Hopefully other EU countries aren't being as risk averse as Denmark which in most respects is waaaaaaay less risk averse than the UK.

If true this fucks FIFA and Qatar. Which is some solace


BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨

TheScreamingEagles said:

contrarian said:

AlistairM said:

Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.

The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.

The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.

Again depends what you mean by fans.

Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?

They don't give a monkeys.

And that is where the growth is.

Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.

You don't understood modern football clubs.

Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.

5 of the top 6 are the superleague clubs.



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/04/arsenals-income-hit-hardest-next-premier-league-season-played/

I agree with your basic point. But I am not sure matchday income really shows that.

If you relocated Manchester United to Dubai (heaven forfend etc) there would still be very extensive matchday revenue. Indeed, somewhere like Dubai is jam packed with people with money to burn but not enough to spend it on.

A bit of an issue for non-London clubs at present is that some cities where English teams are located aren't great for matchday revenue as presumably a fair slice of that is corporate (an easier sell in London than Newcastle) and local fan income also tends to be lower.

Cookie said:

Endillion said:

contrarian said:

AlistairM said:

Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.

The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.

The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.

Again depends what you mean by fans.

Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?

They don't give a monkeys.

And that is where the growth is.

Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.

I think most of us agree on that (I certainly do). The question is whether the value to this country in increasing revenue from those places, at the cost of doing probably unfixable damage to one of our long-standing cultural institutions, is a worthwhile trade-off.

If you like, feel free to rewrite my previous sentence such that it's not immediately obvious what the answer should be.

The Premier League is not one of our long-standing cultural institutions.
Football is one of our long-standing cultural institutions. And football will continue being played, and watched, whatever a bunch of transient millionaires employed by another bunch of transient millionaires do.

The more I think about this, the keener I am on it. It feels like an Augean Stables moment. I just wish it had happened back in the mid-noughties when the top six and the England team were almost entirely devoid likeability.

I agree that English football was hardly in the best of health prior to this, but the overall impact of this change in this country on viewership and engagement cannot be anything other than strongly negative.

CNN: A mass vaccination center in the southern French city of Nice was forced to close early over the weekend after 58 people turned up for 4,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, a spokesman for the Alpes-Maritimes regional police told CNN.

Doses of the vaccine were offered to people aged over 55 who have jobs with a high Covid-19 risk such as teachers, police, prison guards, but the center was forced to close Saturday only hours after it opened.

TheScreamingEagles said:

contrarian said:

AlistairM said:

Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.

The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.

The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.

Again depends what you mean by fans.

Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?

They don't give a monkeys.

And that is where the growth is.

Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.

You don't understood modern football clubs.

Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.

5 of the top 6 are the superleague clubs.



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/04/arsenals-income-hit-hardest-next-premier-league-season-played/

Maybe but what are the costs of staging the matchdays? far, far more than the revenues of that day, if you factor in player wages surely.

TV fans massively subsidise live fans, surely?

Leon said:

If true this fucks FIFA and Qatar. Which is some solace


BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨

Why would it affect Qatar? I don't think the ESL will happen at all, but even those who think it will seem to be talking about 2023 launch, which would be after the next World Cup.

Time_to_Leave said:

Leon said:

If true this fucks FIFA and Qatar. Which is some solace


BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨

It’s Kerry Packer all over again.

Packer won in the end.

IanB2 said:

CNN: A mass vaccination center in the southern French city of Nice was forced to close early over the weekend after 58 people turned up for 4,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, a spokesman for the Alpes-Maritimes regional police told CNN.

Doses of the vaccine were offered to people aged over 55 who have jobs with a high Covid-19 risk such as teachers, police, prison guards, but the center was forced to close Saturday only hours after it opened.

That's quite a small cohort. If you have lower demand like the USA does just open up to everyone.

TimT said:

But this looks remarkably like short term greed rather than longer term. That is good for the quarterly reports and hence executive compensation, but bad for shareholders and fans alike.

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Man Utd supporters trust CEO says he has not heard of anyone supporting the club who backs this , nor indeed from any other fans of other clubs

Asking for government intervention

This government says that greed is good.

Are you saying that this is the wrong type of greed?

Leon said:

The international ban is real. That’s huge. Go to the Superleague and never play for your country. Never play in the World Cup

Big dilemma for very talented players. Lots will go to Bayern and PSG so they can still earn big money and still play for their countries. German football, in general, could benefit massively from this

Tony Greig waves from beyond the grave.

Philip_Thompson said:

Time_to_Leave said:

Leon said:

If true this fucks FIFA and Qatar. Which is some solace


BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨

It’s Kerry Packer all over again.

Packer won in the end.

But that was in response to a genuine grievance. Top cricketers were earning no more than a dentist.

Jonathan said:

Nigelb said:

CursingStone said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well now.

BREAKING: UK Digital Secretary Oliver Dowden has issued a Public Interest Intervention Notice on Nvidia's $40 billion takeover of Arm on national security grounds

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/proposed-acquisition-of-arm-limited-by-nvidia-corporation-public-interest-intervention

ARM the most significant British idea that others have made heaps of money out of.

Or html, perhaps ?

The English Language.

by HTML I assume you mean the World Wide Web - rather than html which was is just a variation of xml (an American invention)

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well now.

BREAKING: UK Digital Secretary Oliver Dowden has issued a Public Interest Intervention Notice on Nvidia's $40 billion takeover of Arm on national security grounds

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/proposed-acquisition-of-arm-limited-by-nvidia-corporation-public-interest-intervention

The two stories are linked. These ain’t Maggie’s Tories. Sir Austin Chamberlain would be proud.

kinabalu said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Time_to_Leave said:

Leon said:

If true this fucks FIFA and Qatar. Which is some solace


BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨

It’s Kerry Packer all over again.

Packer won in the end.

But that was in response to a genuine grievance. Top cricketers were earning no more than a dentist.

Yes but Packer didn't win because he won a battle for public opinion, he won because the ACB were running out of money and sued for peace and sold out to Packer.

If the money goes with the Super League then UEFA, FIFA (and the Premier League if it unlikely goes that far) will end up sueing for peace to try to get a slice of their income back.

IanB2 said:

CNN: A mass vaccination center in the southern French city of Nice was forced to close early over the weekend after 58 people turned up for 4,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, a spokesman for the Alpes-Maritimes regional police told CNN.

Doses of the vaccine were offered to people aged over 55 who have jobs with a high Covid-19 risk such as teachers, police, prison guards, but the center was forced to close Saturday only hours after it opened.

55+ and only if you are in a high risk group (and surely if you are 55 in those groups you've hit retirement point anyway)

Are the French aware that the only fix for this is to vaccinate people?

Jonathan said:

TimT said:

Jonathan said:

TimT said:

But this looks remarkably like short term greed rather than longer term. That is good for the quarterly reports and hence executive compensation, but bad for shareholders and fans alike.

Jonathan said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Man Utd supporters trust CEO says he has not heard of anyone supporting the club who backs this , nor indeed from any other fans of other clubs

Asking for government intervention

This government says that greed is good.

Are you saying that this is the wrong type of greed?

In essence, yes.

I don't really like the word greed in this context. It is foolish to think of business without a financial motivation, which is what greed seems to be shorthand for here. But short-term financial motivations have in many instances destroyed value; and failure to align the longer-term interests of shareholders with the shorter-term financial interests of executives (the agency problem) because of mis-conceived remuneration packages has also done untold damage to corporations.

If you explicitly promote greed in your culture, you should not be surprised if things like this happen. Reap what you sow.

I do not disagree with you. To a large extent, the multinational corporate model is morally and ethically bankrupt. But how do you propose to generate business and industry without a profit incentive?

williamglenn said:

contrarian said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

contrarian said:

AlistairM said:

Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.

The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.

The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.

Again depends what you mean by fans.

Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?

They don't give a monkeys.

And that is where the growth is.

Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.

You don't understood modern football clubs.

Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.

5 of the top 6 are the superleague clubs.



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/04/arsenals-income-hit-hardest-next-premier-league-season-played/

Maybe but what are the costs of staging the matchdays? far, far more than the revenues of that day, if you factor in player wages surely.

TV fans massively subsidise live fans, surely?

Why would you only factor in the players' wages for live fans? If you don't pay the players, there's nothing to show on TV.

That's a fair point, but I suppose COVID has shown where the power lies? the Prem has 'got by' on non matchday revenues only.

felix said:

Like many on here and beyond - football has been of little interest since I was a kid who used to go every week among 40+ thousand others to Roker park. However, I have to acknowledge it's removed all other news from the airwaves.

My condolences for your terrible upbringing.

Gallowgate said:

UEFA gone big. The PL is staying very quiet today.

Told you so.

The PL know what butters their bread.

UEFA have no choice but to go big. The PL have no choice but to keep their heads down.

Cookie said:

Endillion said:

contrarian said:

AlistairM said:

Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.

The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.

The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.

Again depends what you mean by fans.

Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?

They don't give a monkeys.

And that is where the growth is.

Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.

I think most of us agree on that (I certainly do). The question is whether the value to this country in increasing revenue from those places, at the cost of doing probably unfixable damage to one of our long-standing cultural institutions, is a worthwhile trade-off.

If you like, feel free to rewrite my previous sentence such that it's not immediately obvious what the answer should be.

The Premier League is not one of our long-standing cultural institutions.
Football is one of our long-standing cultural institutions. And football will continue being played, and watched, whatever a bunch of transient millionaires employed by another bunch of transient millionaires do.

The more I think about this, the keener I am on it. It feels like an Augean Stables moment. I just wish it had happened back in the mid-noughties when the top six and the England team were almost entirely devoid likeability.

It will do nothing to end the real problems in the high levels of football and will just send more of the lower clubs to the wall. It fucks football not saves it.

contrarian said:

williamglenn said:

contrarian said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

contrarian said:

AlistairM said:

Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.

The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.

The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.

Again depends what you mean by fans.

Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?

They don't give a monkeys.

And that is where the growth is.

Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.

You don't understood modern football clubs.

Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.

5 of the top 6 are the superleague clubs.



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/04/arsenals-income-hit-hardest-next-premier-league-season-played/

Maybe but what are the costs of staging the matchdays? far, far more than the revenues of that day, if you factor in player wages surely.

TV fans massively subsidise live fans, surely?

Why would you only factor in the players' wages for live fans? If you don't pay the players, there's nothing to show on TV.

That's a fair point, but I suppose COVID has shown where the power lies? the Prem has 'got by' on non matchday revenues only.

They haven't though.

Spurs, Liverpool, United, Arsenal, and others are set to post £100 million plus losses for this season and the last.

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/01/liverpool-rise-to-top-5-in-revenue-charts-despite-major-financial-blow-of-empty-anfield/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-financial-blow-impact-coronavirus-23295783

LostPassword said:

Leon said:

The international ban is real. That’s huge. Go to the Superleague and never play for your country. Never play in the World Cup

Big dilemma for very talented players. Lots will go to Bayern and PSG so they can still earn big money and still play for their countries. German football, in general, could benefit massively from this

Wouldn't the international teams from the players of the super league sides beat most of the international teams from the leftover players?

Perhaps they'll put on their own world cup.

You might think. But, there would probably be few countries which could raise a full side.

In Bath of all places.....Labour voter not happy.

Stamer Heckled in Bath..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UycKJy7hAJk&t=7s

Always tricky when a member of the public goes nutso, but telling him he isn't going to be "lectured by you", not sure is a good response.

TheScreamingEagles said:

contrarian said:

williamglenn said:

contrarian said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

contrarian said:

AlistairM said:

Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.

The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.

The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.

Again depends what you mean by fans.

Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?

They don't give a monkeys.

And that is where the growth is.

Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.

You don't understood modern football clubs.

Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.

5 of the top 6 are the superleague clubs.



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/04/arsenals-income-hit-hardest-next-premier-league-season-played/

Maybe but what are the costs of staging the matchdays? far, far more than the revenues of that day, if you factor in player wages surely.

TV fans massively subsidise live fans, surely?

Why would you only factor in the players' wages for live fans? If you don't pay the players, there's nothing to show on TV.

That's a fair point, but I suppose COVID has shown where the power lies? the Prem has 'got by' on non matchday revenues only.

They haven't though.

Spurs, Liverpool, United, Arsenal, and others are set to post £100 million plus losses for this season and the last.

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/01/liverpool-rise-to-top-5-in-revenue-charts-despite-major-financial-blow-of-empty-anfield/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-financial-blow-impact-coronavirus-23295783

Matchday revenue is a huge loss for all clubs with fans. Only the oil clubs like Citeh and the chavs can survive without matchday revenue.

Looks like Sir Keir stopping by has energised the local business owners of Bath. Tweet earlier in the thread shows the guy heckling seems to be an anti-lockdown pub owner.

https://twitter.com/StephenSumner15/status/1384120124492304390

Time_to_Leave said:

Endillion said:

kinabalu said:

Endillion said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

contrarian said:

AlistairM said:

Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.

The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.

The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.

Again depends what you mean by fans.

Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?

They don't give a monkeys.

And that is where the growth is.

Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.

You don't understood modern football clubs.

Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.

5 of the top 6 are the superleague clubs.



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/04/arsenals-income-hit-hardest-next-premier-league-season-played/

This is all unarguable, but what the clubs really want is people coming once or twice a season (preferably from abroad) and spending lots on food, merchandise, souvenirs and corporate entertainment. They have no real long-term interest in season ticket holders who turn up every other week and therefore expect to get a discount, while spending barely anything on extras.

But the "fayns" provide the match atmosphere. I can't be alone in having lost all interest in watching football on tv during the pandemic.

You can generate atmosphere for TV quite happily with a few mics in a small area of the ground with say 2-5k actual fans. Certainly no need for tens of thousands of them.

No, you really can’t. A large crowd has a different personality.

Yep. The 'generated' large crowds in US professional sports during COVID just sound so completely fake as to be laughable.

FrancisUrquhart said:

In Bath of all places.....Labour voter not happy.

Stamer Heckled in Bath..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UycKJy7hAJk&t=7s

Always tricky when a member of the public goes nutso, but telling him he isn't going to be "lectured by you", not sure is a good response.

Said member of the public was the landlord of the pub Starmer was just in lol

TimT said:

Pulpstar said:

LostPassword said:

Leon said:

The international ban is real. That’s huge. Go to the Superleague and never play for your country. Never play in the World Cup

Big dilemma for very talented players. Lots will go to Bayern and PSG so they can still earn big money and still play for their countries. German football, in general, could benefit massively from this

Wouldn't the international teams from the players of the super league sides beat most of the international teams from the leftover players?

Perhaps they'll put on their own world cup.

The strongest club sides have been stronger than national sides for a long time.

I don't think that is what LP was saying, though. I think he meant if you made up and England side from the English players in the SL it would be stronger than the England side from the national competitions team

For England perhaps. Maybe for Spain and Italy too. Belgium certainly.
Right now though with Just these clubs involved probably no one else.
Argentina might not raise a side. Portugal and Germany too.

Time_to_Leave said:

Endillion said:

kinabalu said:

Endillion said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

contrarian said:

AlistairM said:

Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.

The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.

The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.

Again depends what you mean by fans.

Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?

They don't give a monkeys.

And that is where the growth is.

Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.

You don't understood modern football clubs.

Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.

5 of the top 6 are the superleague clubs.



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/04/arsenals-income-hit-hardest-next-premier-league-season-played/

This is all unarguable, but what the clubs really want is people coming once or twice a season (preferably from abroad) and spending lots on food, merchandise, souvenirs and corporate entertainment. They have no real long-term interest in season ticket holders who turn up every other week and therefore expect to get a discount, while spending barely anything on extras.

But the "fayns" provide the match atmosphere. I can't be alone in having lost all interest in watching football on tv during the pandemic.

You can generate atmosphere for TV quite happily with a few mics in a small area of the ground with say 2-5k actual fans. Certainly no need for tens of thousands of them.

No, you really can’t. A large crowd has a different personality.

Which is only apparent if you're in it. It's impossible to tell that from watching TV on a sofa, and the Asian market certainly won't care.

1 NHS England death recorded today from yesterday with or from (Take your pick) Covid

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

If true this fucks FIFA and Qatar. Which is some solace

BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨

Isn't that more likely to hit the superleague than the world cup?

Guys like Jordan Pickford are surely going to prioritize the chance of hoisting the Jules Rimet and joining the "66" legends over trotting out for routine league games, regardless of whether "super" is stuck in front of it.

On the other hand, Gareth Bale could presumably care less.

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

If true this fucks FIFA and Qatar. Which is some solace

BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨

Isn't that more likely to hit the superleague than the world cup?

Guys like Jordan Pickford are surely going to prioritize the chance of hoisting the Jules Rimet and joining the "66" legends over trotting out for routine league games, regardless of whether "super" is stuck in front of it.

Tbf. Jordan Pickford has no say in the matter.

MattW said:

Malmesbury said:

eek said:

IanB2 said:

CNN: A mass vaccination center in the southern French city of Nice was forced to close early over the weekend after 58 people turned up for 4,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, a spokesman for the Alpes-Maritimes regional police told CNN.

Doses of the vaccine were offered to people aged over 55 who have jobs with a high Covid-19 risk such as teachers, police, prison guards, but the center was forced to close Saturday only hours after it opened.

55+ and only if you are in a high risk group (and surely if you are 55 in those groups you've hit retirement point anyway)

Are the French aware that the only fix for this is to vaccinate people?

It's a demonstration of the road that the UK chose not to go down - lots of "special groups" and holding to perfectly targeting those groups.

Get the vaccine into *someone* - older is better, but perfect is the enemy of good enough.

You gotta love CNN:

"Germany’s vaccine rollout is intensifying, with more doses arriving in the country.

The nation's Ministry of Health said 559,967 doses were administered last Friday up from 664,270 on Thursday."

They must have verified the increase with the Ministry of Truth.

Government will be very happy with this sort of crazed buzzword heavy response....

United Nations says UK racism report is 'reprehensible' and 'normalises white supremacy' by 'repackaging racist tropes and stereotypes into fact'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9486255/Racism-report-United-Nations-says-UK-report-reprehensible-normalises-white-supremacy.html

Carnyx said:

Time_to_Leave said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well now.

BREAKING: UK Digital Secretary Oliver Dowden has issued a Public Interest Intervention Notice on Nvidia's $40 billion takeover of Arm on national security grounds

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/proposed-acquisition-of-arm-limited-by-nvidia-corporation-public-interest-intervention

The two stories are linked. These ain’t Maggie’s Tories. Sir Austin Chamberlain would be proud.

Puzzled about the talk about taking Covid money away on the Graun feed: PM spokesperson:
'Asked if the government would try to recover Covid support given to clubs participating in the super league scheme, the spokesman said: “Again, another suggestion put forward. We want to look at everything possible, we’re not ruling anything in or out, we want to look at the options"'

Surely that's retrospective and unfair?

Depends what representations were made and strings attached at the time the money was given/taken.

TimT said:

Carnyx said:

Time_to_Leave said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Well now.

BREAKING: UK Digital Secretary Oliver Dowden has issued a Public Interest Intervention Notice on Nvidia's $40 billion takeover of Arm on national security grounds

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/proposed-acquisition-of-arm-limited-by-nvidia-corporation-public-interest-intervention

The two stories are linked. These ain’t Maggie’s Tories. Sir Austin Chamberlain would be proud.

Puzzled about the talk about taking Covid money away on the Graun feed: PM spokesperson:
'Asked if the government would try to recover Covid support given to clubs participating in the super league scheme, the spokesman said: “Again, another suggestion put forward. We want to look at everything possible, we’re not ruling anything in or out, we want to look at the options"'

Surely that's retrospective and unfair?

Depends what representations were made and strings attached at the time the money was given/taken.

But could those remotely concern such a proposal a year ago?

Time_to_Leave said:

Endillion said:

kinabalu said:

Endillion said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

contrarian said:

AlistairM said:

Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.

The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.

The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.

Again depends what you mean by fans.

Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?

They don't give a monkeys.

And that is where the growth is.

Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.

You don't understood modern football clubs.

Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.

5 of the top 6 are the superleague clubs.



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/04/arsenals-income-hit-hardest-next-premier-league-season-played/

This is all unarguable, but what the clubs really want is people coming once or twice a season (preferably from abroad) and spending lots on food, merchandise, souvenirs and corporate entertainment. They have no real long-term interest in season ticket holders who turn up every other week and therefore expect to get a discount, while spending barely anything on extras.

But the "fayns" provide the match atmosphere. I can't be alone in having lost all interest in watching football on tv during the pandemic.

You can generate atmosphere for TV quite happily with a few mics in a small area of the ground with say 2-5k actual fans. Certainly no need for tens of thousands of them.

No, you really can’t. A large crowd has a different personality.

He must be an Arsenal fan lol.

MaxPB said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

contrarian said:

williamglenn said:

contrarian said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

contrarian said:

AlistairM said:

Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.

The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.

The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.

Again depends what you mean by fans.

Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?

They don't give a monkeys.

And that is where the growth is.

Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.

You don't understood modern football clubs.

Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.

5 of the top 6 are the superleague clubs.



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/05/04/arsenals-income-hit-hardest-next-premier-league-season-played/

Maybe but what are the costs of staging the matchdays? far, far more than the revenues of that day, if you factor in player wages surely.

TV fans massively subsidise live fans, surely?

Why would you only factor in the players' wages for live fans? If you don't pay the players, there's nothing to show on TV.

That's a fair point, but I suppose COVID has shown where the power lies? the Prem has 'got by' on non matchday revenues only.

They haven't though.

Spurs, Liverpool, United, Arsenal, and others are set to post £100 million plus losses for this season and the last.

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/01/liverpool-rise-to-top-5-in-revenue-charts-despite-major-financial-blow-of-empty-anfield/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-financial-blow-impact-coronavirus-23295783

Matchday revenue is a huge loss for all clubs with fans. Only the oil clubs like Citeh and the chavs can survive without matchday revenue.

It might have something to do with the bargaining position. The likes of Tottenham have lost silly amounts of revenue from the turnstiles this season.

I suspect one of the key criteria for a deal will be a categoric guarantee that stadia won't be forcibly shuttered again. Like many other businesses, they cannot afford it.

felix said:

RH1992 said:

Looks like Sir Keir stopping by has energised the local business owners of Bath. Tweet earlier in the thread shows the guy heckling seems to be an anti-lockdown pub owner.

https://twitter.com/StephenSumner15/status/1384120124492304390

Also - what on earth is he doing in Bath? Shouldn't he be eslewhere now?

Seems an odd place to be, Bath is a Lib Dem stronghold after Tory support for Brexit....Labour only have a handful of councillors there.