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We need to talk about antivaxxer GOPers – politicalbetting.com

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  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    WTF?

    'Wow. Longer video here. A man who is apparently the pub landlord being assaulted because he says he doesn’t want Starmer and Dan Norris in there. Really unacceptable.'



    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1384135505961394184?s=20

    That security guard is being quite heavy handed. Is it necessary?
    There's got to be more to this, surely? Wouldn't a LOTO ordinarily try to find somewhere hospitable for this sort of visit? I'm struggling to believe Keir Starmer's in the habit of getting his heavies to bully business owners into letting him in for a photo shoot.
    Looks to me like the landlord was giving him verbal outside, so he and his team stepped into the pub to try and avoid a confrontation, not realising that it was his pub!

    So then the security detail has to hold him off while Kier and the gang make their exit. You do not get in the face of the LotO like this, what did the guy think was going to happen? Non story.
    That probably is the case, but then Sir Keir must have forgotten that you aren't allowed to actually go inside pubs at the moment!!
    Sure, but better to (attempt) to de-escalate a confrontation by moving to a securable location than to be out on the street with someone giving you aggro. Just bad luck that it turned out that the individual in question was the landlord!

    Apparently the co-owner of the pub is not impressed :)
    Indeed. Just seen that.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    "Squad rotation" come on man FFS.
    Yes its what already happens. Its what its called.

    Besides if this goes ahead as suggested, and the players banned from international football then overall the players will be playing fewer fixtures not more than they are today. So there might be less squad rotation than occurs today, not more.

    The fact its an unsporting closed shop is an extremely valid criticism, the hyperbole over the future of the Premier League is bullshit.
    It isn't bullshit. It's entirely valid and it's amazing you can't see it.
    How?

    There is already squad rotation today. There is already prioritisation of the Champions League today. There is already a surfeit of fixtures today.

    The proposed difference in number of fixtures between the Champions League and the Super League is tiny.

    That is not the story here. The story is it being a closed shop, that is what is damning.
    I have no idea why you are separating the two. You have to consider the competition in the context of its actual circumstances.

    The Champions League does not devalue the Premier League because you have to do well in the Premier League to enter the Champions League. It maintains the pyramid.

    The Super League does the opposite.

    You arguing for the sake of it that "the EPL will be fine" because "squad rotation is nothing new" is just nonsense.

    If we were comparing an open "super league" to replace the champions league and the actual Super League, then your argument might be valid, but we're not.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,822
    Leon said:

    Go on Boris, pass a law to fuck these fuckers

    These fuckers are fucking themselves. They are in the most lucrative competitions in the world and they are fucking off to start a new competition. Which, medium term, will be less lucrative. It will be unable to sustain the long term interest of top level national football or Europe-wide football open to all.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    WTF?

    'Wow. Longer video here. A man who is apparently the pub landlord being assaulted because he says he doesn’t want Starmer and Dan Norris in there. Really unacceptable.'



    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1384135505961394184?s=20

    That security guard is being quite heavy handed. Is it necessary?
    There's got to be more to this, surely? Wouldn't a LOTO ordinarily try to find somewhere hospitable for this sort of visit? I'm struggling to believe Keir Starmer's in the habit of getting his heavies to bully business owners into letting him in for a photo shoot.
    Starmer clearly didn't realise he was the landlord !
    That's very funny.
    But wouldn't these visits normally be arranged in advance? Wouldn't they try to find a business which would be reasonably happy to play along with the friendly photoshoot?
    Maybe that's the thing though?

    Feelings are running much higher in hospitality businesses( many of whom believe they have been scapegoated), than many politicians realise.

    Giving some politico (either tory or labour) who poleaxed the industry a photo-op might be letting the side down.
    Son who runs a bar commented he got shut down for less at weekend........

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    Leon said:

    Go on Boris, pass a law to fuck these fuckers

    Trouble is, I don't think there is a law that does that without horrible collateral damage.

    For the first time in ages, maybe ever, Boris hasn't been able to make something happen or unhappen by the pure force of his reputation.

    Though it might look totally different in two hours' time.
    Surely there is a restriction of trade issue for any government attempt to dictate which competitions these clubs want to play in. They have decided to set up a rival to the UEFA Champions League. What specific action can the government take to stop them?
    The FA has to sanction it and the government and FA agree policin policy for matches. The FA is essentially a public body so the government has a lot of leverage. They could banish those clubs to playing these matches behind closed doors losing about 11 matches worth of revenue, which is a huge sum for Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool and United.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,209

    Leon said:

    Go on Boris, pass a law to fuck these fuckers

    Trouble is, I don't think there is a law that does that without horrible collateral damage.

    For the first time in ages, maybe ever, Boris hasn't been able to make something happen or unhappen by the pure force of his reputation.

    Though it might look totally different in two hours' time.
    Targeting laws at particular individuals, or individual companies, is not a great thing to do.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    Taz said:

    Phil said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    WTF?

    'Wow. Longer video here. A man who is apparently the pub landlord being assaulted because he says he doesn’t want Starmer and Dan Norris in there. Really unacceptable.'



    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1384135505961394184?s=20

    That security guard is being quite heavy handed. Is it necessary?
    There's got to be more to this, surely? Wouldn't a LOTO ordinarily try to find somewhere hospitable for this sort of visit? I'm struggling to believe Keir Starmer's in the habit of getting his heavies to bully business owners into letting him in for a photo shoot.
    Looks to me like the landlord was giving him verbal outside, so he and his team stepped into the pub to try and avoid a confrontation, not realising that it was his pub!

    So then the security detail has to hold him off while Kier and the gang make their exit. You do not get in the face of the LotO like this, what did the guy think was going to happen? Non story.
    Sir Keir’s thug really had no right to restrain the landlord. He wasn’t a threat. He just wanted Starmer out of his pub and it would have been a better look for starmer to have listened and sympathised and come back with bland platitudes instead of sneering at a man who is simply worried for his business . I see labour supporters on social media are already attacking the landlord
    If he wanted him out of his pub then maybe he shouldn’t have been blocking the only exit while sounding more and more unhinged?

    Looks to me as if the protection officer did about as well as could be expected in the circumstances: moves the guy into a space where he can put himself between him and Starmer, whilst simultaneously opening up the exit for Starmer to get out (which is exactly what the guy claimed to want!)

    It would have been better all round if Starmer could have listened & sympathised, but from the video, it really doesn’t seem like the guy was very interested in that kind of exchange & was steadily winding himself up. Protection officer at that point (rightly imo) intervened to prevent a potential physical confrontation, nobody got hurt, the press got a good story for the day. Good outcome all round.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    AlistairM said:

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    They normally played their best teams in the PL. Why? To make sure they got into the European tournaments. If they no longer have to qualify then they will field weakened sides in the PL and focus where the money is - midweek ESL matches.

    You can feel the atmosphere at a midweek Liverpool European tie even watching on TV because against the big sides they were uncommon events (few times/year max). Would it be the same week-in, week-out in the ESL? I somehow doubt it, particularly if the fans boycott it.

    Interesting that the one topic that stops everyone from talking about Covid is football!
    Clubs have competed in both the Champions League and the Premier League for years. Clubs have competed to win both for years.

    Why wouldn't they compete to win the Premier League still? You're acting as if Top 4 was all the clubs competed for, that they never competed to win titles.

    Once a club is out of the running for winning the League then absolutely they might field weaker squads - but they already do that too.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Go on Boris, pass a law to fuck these fuckers

    Trouble is, I don't think there is a law that does that without horrible collateral damage.

    For the first time in ages, maybe ever, Boris hasn't been able to make something happen or unhappen by the pure force of his reputation.

    Though it might look totally different in two hours' time.
    Surely there is a restriction of trade issue for any government attempt to dictate which competitions these clubs want to play in. They have decided to set up a rival to the UEFA Champions League. What specific action can the government take to stop them?
    The FA has to sanction it and the government and FA agree policin policy for matches. The FA is essentially a public body so the government has a lot of leverage. They could banish those clubs to playing these matches behind closed doors losing about 11 matches worth of revenue, which is a huge sum for Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool and United.
    Not to mention "restraint of trade" applies primarily to individuals rather than companies, that would be competition law, but Parliament is sovereign and can do whatever the f*ck it wants, as we've literally spent the last 5 years discussing endlessly.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    Labour need to get John Prescott on the airwaves pronto to reminisce about that farm hand and the egg - remind everyone of the time when politicians' battering members of the public was viewed with affection.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    "Squad rotation" come on man FFS.
    Yes its what already happens. Its what its called.

    Besides if this goes ahead as suggested, and the players banned from international football then overall the players will be playing fewer fixtures not more than they are today. So there might be less squad rotation than occurs today, not more.

    The fact its an unsporting closed shop is an extremely valid criticism, the hyperbole over the future of the Premier League is bullshit.
    It isn't bullshit. It's entirely valid and it's amazing you can't see it.
    How?

    There is already squad rotation today. There is already prioritisation of the Champions League today. There is already a surfeit of fixtures today.

    The proposed difference in number of fixtures between the Champions League and the Super League is tiny.

    That is not the story here. The story is it being a closed shop, that is what is damning.
    I have no idea why you are separating the two. You have to consider the competition in the context of its actual circumstances.

    The Champions League does not devalue the Premier League because you have to do well in the Premier League to enter the Champions League. It maintains the pyramid.

    The Super League does the opposite.

    You arguing for the sake of it that "the EPL will be fine" because "squad rotation is nothing new" is just nonsense.

    If we were comparing an open "super league" to replace the champions league and the actual Super League, then your argument might be valid, but we're not.
    I'm saying clubs compete to win the Premier League, not just scrape fourth place.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    https://twitter.com/skysports_bryan/status/1384142677277437952

    Bryan Swanson
    @skysports_bryan
    NEW: Premier League to host meeting with 14 clubs tomorrow morning. Clubs involved in proposed European Super League are not included. Meeting chaired by Richard Masters online #SSN
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,421

    felix said:

    eek said:

    Brom said:

    Leon said:

    WTF?

    'Wow. Longer video here. A man who is apparently the pub landlord being assaulted because he says he doesn’t want Starmer and Dan Norris in there. Really unacceptable.'



    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1384135505961394184?s=20

    That's an even worse look than telling him you aren't going to be lectured to.

    I am not clear did Starmer try to go into this pub unannounced, the landlord get shouty and then they had their exchange outside....or did Starmer try and go into the pub after shouty mcshouty face spoke?
    That's really not a good look for Starmer. Labour leaders are supposed to look at home in a pub.
    Surely your typical Labour Leader needs to look at home in a vegan cafe given their current membership.
    Their must be a ton of those in Bath!
    Its a good pub (The Raven) - a popular spot for decent beer, although not the biggest venue.
    The Raven was recommended to my daughter by her university tutor - though she hasn't been able to go yet...
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751

    AlistairM said:

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    They normally played their best teams in the PL. Why? To make sure they got into the European tournaments. If they no longer have to qualify then they will field weakened sides in the PL and focus where the money is - midweek ESL matches.

    You can feel the atmosphere at a midweek Liverpool European tie even watching on TV because against the big sides they were uncommon events (few times/year max). Would it be the same week-in, week-out in the ESL? I somehow doubt it, particularly if the fans boycott it.

    Interesting that the one topic that stops everyone from talking about Covid is football!
    Clubs have competed in both the Champions League and the Premier League for years. Clubs have competed to win both for years.

    Why wouldn't they compete to win the Premier League still? You're acting as if Top 4 was all the clubs competed for, that they never competed to win titles.

    Once a club is out of the running for winning the League then absolutely they might field weaker squads - but they already do that too.
    I’m not sure why you’re taking this position but I have to say you’re coming over as quite naive.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380
    Leon said:

    Go on Boris, pass a law to fuck these fuckers

    The quality of discourse gets ever better on PB. This really is top drawer.

    Is that the time?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    ......The Landlord of the Raven will be live on Talk Radio with Mark Dolan this afternoon......

    All we need now is Al Murray....
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Go on Boris, pass a law to fuck these fuckers

    These fuckers are fucking themselves. They are in the most lucrative competitions in the world and they are fucking off to start a new competition. Which, medium term, will be less lucrative. It will be unable to sustain the long term interest of top level national football or Europe-wide football open to all.
    The owners of these clubs don’t care. If they get a larger slice of a smaller pie & come out ahead, then they’ll do just that. Then they can juice the books a bit & sell the clubs into the open market for a nice fat profit & move on to the next industry.

    They don’t care if they leave a smoking crater behind them - it’s just business.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,822
    AlistairM said:

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    They normally played their best teams in the PL. Why? To make sure they got into the European tournaments. If they no longer have to qualify then they will field weakened sides in the PL and focus where the money is - midweek ESL matches.

    You can feel the atmosphere at a midweek Liverpool European tie even watching on TV because against the big sides they were uncommon events (few times/year max). Would it be the same week-in, week-out in the ESL? I somehow doubt it, particularly if the fans boycott it.

    Interesting that the one topic that stops everyone from talking about Covid is football!
    Quite.
    Once upon a time, if there was European football on, you watched it, even if it was Alex Ferguson's Manchester United and most of the time you disliked them heartily. But there is an optimum amount of European football which keeps it special. We passed that point about 20-odd years ago, and diminishing returns have set in.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    "Squad rotation" come on man FFS.
    Yes its what already happens. Its what its called.

    Besides if this goes ahead as suggested, and the players banned from international football then overall the players will be playing fewer fixtures not more than they are today. So there might be less squad rotation than occurs today, not more.

    The fact its an unsporting closed shop is an extremely valid criticism, the hyperbole over the future of the Premier League is bullshit.
    It isn't bullshit. It's entirely valid and it's amazing you can't see it.
    How?

    There is already squad rotation today. There is already prioritisation of the Champions League today. There is already a surfeit of fixtures today.

    The proposed difference in number of fixtures between the Champions League and the Super League is tiny.

    That is not the story here. The story is it being a closed shop, that is what is damning.
    I have no idea why you are separating the two. You have to consider the competition in the context of its actual circumstances.

    The Champions League does not devalue the Premier League because you have to do well in the Premier League to enter the Champions League. It maintains the pyramid.

    The Super League does the opposite.

    You arguing for the sake of it that "the EPL will be fine" because "squad rotation is nothing new" is just nonsense.

    If we were comparing an open "super league" to replace the champions league and the actual Super League, then your argument might be valid, but we're not.
    I'm saying clubs compete to win the Premier League, not just scrape fourth place.
    Lol, have you been watching football at all for the last 15 years? The race for the top 4 is one of the most compelling parts of the season narrative. Losing that will kill the PL.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    "Squad rotation" come on man FFS.
    Yes its what already happens. Its what its called.

    Besides if this goes ahead as suggested, and the players banned from international football then overall the players will be playing fewer fixtures not more than they are today. So there might be less squad rotation than occurs today, not more.

    The fact its an unsporting closed shop is an extremely valid criticism, the hyperbole over the future of the Premier League is bullshit.
    It isn't bullshit. It's entirely valid and it's amazing you can't see it.
    How?

    There is already squad rotation today. There is already prioritisation of the Champions League today. There is already a surfeit of fixtures today.

    The proposed difference in number of fixtures between the Champions League and the Super League is tiny.

    That is not the story here. The story is it being a closed shop, that is what is damning.
    I have no idea why you are separating the two. You have to consider the competition in the context of its actual circumstances.

    The Champions League does not devalue the Premier League because you have to do well in the Premier League to enter the Champions League. It maintains the pyramid.

    The Super League does the opposite.

    You arguing for the sake of it that "the EPL will be fine" because "squad rotation is nothing new" is just nonsense.

    If we were comparing an open "super league" to replace the champions league and the actual Super League, then your argument might be valid, but we're not.
    I'm saying clubs compete to win the Premier League, not just scrape fourth place.
    So what? Nobody is saying they don't. What they're saying it will devalue the PL, which it will, because suddenly it has no real bearing to the financials of these clubs.

    There's currently an exciting race happening for 4th place. That won't exist anymore because why would Liverpool, Chelsea, or Spurs care if they finish in the top 4?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    moonshine said:

    AlistairM said:

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    They normally played their best teams in the PL. Why? To make sure they got into the European tournaments. If they no longer have to qualify then they will field weakened sides in the PL and focus where the money is - midweek ESL matches.

    You can feel the atmosphere at a midweek Liverpool European tie even watching on TV because against the big sides they were uncommon events (few times/year max). Would it be the same week-in, week-out in the ESL? I somehow doubt it, particularly if the fans boycott it.

    Interesting that the one topic that stops everyone from talking about Covid is football!
    Clubs have competed in both the Champions League and the Premier League for years. Clubs have competed to win both for years.

    Why wouldn't they compete to win the Premier League still? You're acting as if Top 4 was all the clubs competed for, that they never competed to win titles.

    Once a club is out of the running for winning the League then absolutely they might field weaker squads - but they already do that too.
    I’m not sure why you’re taking this position but I have to say you’re coming over as quite naive.
    Its naive to think clubs will continue to want to win the Premier League?

    Lets have a bet shall we - if this goes ahead with the Big 6 still in the Premier League then in the first season it goes ahead I reckon the Premier League will be won by a Big 6 club.

    I'll wager £100 at evens if anyone wants to take the opposite opinion.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    moonshine said:

    AlistairM said:

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    They normally played their best teams in the PL. Why? To make sure they got into the European tournaments. If they no longer have to qualify then they will field weakened sides in the PL and focus where the money is - midweek ESL matches.

    You can feel the atmosphere at a midweek Liverpool European tie even watching on TV because against the big sides they were uncommon events (few times/year max). Would it be the same week-in, week-out in the ESL? I somehow doubt it, particularly if the fans boycott it.

    Interesting that the one topic that stops everyone from talking about Covid is football!
    Clubs have competed in both the Champions League and the Premier League for years. Clubs have competed to win both for years.

    Why wouldn't they compete to win the Premier League still? You're acting as if Top 4 was all the clubs competed for, that they never competed to win titles.

    Once a club is out of the running for winning the League then absolutely they might field weaker squads - but they already do that too.
    I’m not sure why you’re taking this position but I have to say you’re coming over as quite naive.
    Its naive to think clubs will continue to want to win the Premier League?

    Lets have a bet shall we - if this goes ahead with the Big 6 still in the Premier League then in the first season it goes ahead I reckon the Premier League will be won by a Big 6 club.

    I'll wager £100 at evens if anyone wants to take the opposite opinion.
    You're completely missing the point. Completely and totally.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    https://twitter.com/skysports_bryan/status/1384142677277437952

    Bryan Swanson
    @skysports_bryan
    NEW: Premier League to host meeting with 14 clubs tomorrow morning. Clubs involved in proposed European Super League are not included. Meeting chaired by Richard Masters online #SSN

    This is going to get very messy.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,822
    edited April 2021
    Phil said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Go on Boris, pass a law to fuck these fuckers

    These fuckers are fucking themselves. They are in the most lucrative competitions in the world and they are fucking off to start a new competition. Which, medium term, will be less lucrative. It will be unable to sustain the long term interest of top level national football or Europe-wide football open to all.
    The owners of these clubs don’t care. If they get a larger slice of a smaller pie & come out ahead, then they’ll do just that. Then they can juice the books a bit & sell the clubs into the open market for a nice fat profit & move on to the next industry.

    They don’t care if they leave a smoking crater behind them - it’s just business.
    I think they will leave a medium-sized but salvageable smouldering crater behind them while marching forward into their own obliteration.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    "Squad rotation" come on man FFS.
    Yes its what already happens. Its what its called.

    Besides if this goes ahead as suggested, and the players banned from international football then overall the players will be playing fewer fixtures not more than they are today. So there might be less squad rotation than occurs today, not more.

    The fact its an unsporting closed shop is an extremely valid criticism, the hyperbole over the future of the Premier League is bullshit.
    It isn't bullshit. It's entirely valid and it's amazing you can't see it.
    How?

    There is already squad rotation today. There is already prioritisation of the Champions League today. There is already a surfeit of fixtures today.

    The proposed difference in number of fixtures between the Champions League and the Super League is tiny.

    That is not the story here. The story is it being a closed shop, that is what is damning.
    I have no idea why you are separating the two. You have to consider the competition in the context of its actual circumstances.

    The Champions League does not devalue the Premier League because you have to do well in the Premier League to enter the Champions League. It maintains the pyramid.

    The Super League does the opposite.

    You arguing for the sake of it that "the EPL will be fine" because "squad rotation is nothing new" is just nonsense.

    If we were comparing an open "super league" to replace the champions league and the actual Super League, then your argument might be valid, but we're not.
    I'm saying clubs compete to win the Premier League, not just scrape fourth place.
    Lol, have you been watching football at all for the last 15 years? The race for the top 4 is one of the most compelling parts of the season narrative. Losing that will kill the PL.
    It will damage it yes, and I've said that myself since last night. I oppose it in part for that reason.

    But hyperbole helps nobody, it won't kill it, it will hurt it.

    There's a difference between hurt and kill. Losing the race for the top 4 will hurt the League, losing the best clubs in the country will kill it as a top League.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    "Squad rotation" come on man FFS.
    Yes its what already happens. Its what its called.

    Besides if this goes ahead as suggested, and the players banned from international football then overall the players will be playing fewer fixtures not more than they are today. So there might be less squad rotation than occurs today, not more.

    The fact its an unsporting closed shop is an extremely valid criticism, the hyperbole over the future of the Premier League is bullshit.
    It isn't bullshit. It's entirely valid and it's amazing you can't see it.
    How?

    There is already squad rotation today. There is already prioritisation of the Champions League today. There is already a surfeit of fixtures today.

    The proposed difference in number of fixtures between the Champions League and the Super League is tiny.

    That is not the story here. The story is it being a closed shop, that is what is damning.
    I have no idea why you are separating the two. You have to consider the competition in the context of its actual circumstances.

    The Champions League does not devalue the Premier League because you have to do well in the Premier League to enter the Champions League. It maintains the pyramid.

    The Super League does the opposite.

    You arguing for the sake of it that "the EPL will be fine" because "squad rotation is nothing new" is just nonsense.

    If we were comparing an open "super league" to replace the champions league and the actual Super League, then your argument might be valid, but we're not.
    I'm saying clubs compete to win the Premier League, not just scrape fourth place.
    Lol, have you been watching football at all for the last 15 years? The race for the top 4 is one of the most compelling parts of the season narrative. Losing that will kill the PL.
    It will damage it yes, and I've said that myself since last night. I oppose it in part for that reason.

    But hyperbole helps nobody, it won't kill it, it will hurt it.

    There's a difference between hurt and kill. Losing the race for the top 4 will hurt the League, losing the best clubs in the country will kill it as a top League.
    I don't care about it being a "top League". Why as a Newcastle fan do I care about that? All I care about is it being a fair sporting competition.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Floater said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    WTF?

    'Wow. Longer video here. A man who is apparently the pub landlord being assaulted because he says he doesn’t want Starmer and Dan Norris in there. Really unacceptable.'



    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1384135505961394184?s=20

    That security guard is being quite heavy handed. Is it necessary?
    There's got to be more to this, surely? Wouldn't a LOTO ordinarily try to find somewhere hospitable for this sort of visit? I'm struggling to believe Keir Starmer's in the habit of getting his heavies to bully business owners into letting him in for a photo shoot.
    Starmer clearly didn't realise he was the landlord !
    That's very funny.
    But wouldn't these visits normally be arranged in advance? Wouldn't they try to find a business which would be reasonably happy to play along with the friendly photoshoot?
    Maybe that's the thing though?

    Feelings are running much higher in hospitality businesses( many of whom believe they have been scapegoated), than many politicians realise.

    Giving some politico (either tory or labour) who poleaxed the industry a photo-op might be letting the side down.
    Son who runs a bar commented he got shut down for less at weekend........

    Wow stay tuned.

    If this gathers momentum (publicans vs politicians) your son's experience could be newsworthy!
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    MaxPB said:

    https://twitter.com/skysports_bryan/status/1384142677277437952

    Bryan Swanson
    @skysports_bryan
    NEW: Premier League to host meeting with 14 clubs tomorrow morning. Clubs involved in proposed European Super League are not included. Meeting chaired by Richard Masters online #SSN

    This is going to get very messy.
    Surely MESSI...???? Ed.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Floater said:

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    WTF?

    'Wow. Longer video here. A man who is apparently the pub landlord being assaulted because he says he doesn’t want Starmer and Dan Norris in there. Really unacceptable.'



    https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1384135505961394184?s=20

    That security guard is being quite heavy handed. Is it necessary?
    There's got to be more to this, surely? Wouldn't a LOTO ordinarily try to find somewhere hospitable for this sort of visit? I'm struggling to believe Keir Starmer's in the habit of getting his heavies to bully business owners into letting him in for a photo shoot.
    Starmer clearly didn't realise he was the landlord !
    That's very funny.
    But wouldn't these visits normally be arranged in advance? Wouldn't they try to find a business which would be reasonably happy to play along with the friendly photoshoot?
    Maybe that's the thing though?

    Feelings are running much higher in hospitality businesses( many of whom believe they have been scapegoated), than many politicians realise.

    Giving some politico (either tory or labour) who poleaxed the industry a photo-op might be letting the side down.
    Son who runs a bar commented he got shut down for less at weekend........

    Wow stay tuned.

    If this gathers momentum (publicans vs politicians) your son's experience could be newsworthy!
    It won't. There's much more important things going on right now.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,764

    Leon said:

    Go on Boris, pass a law to fuck these fuckers

    The quality of discourse gets ever better on PB. This really is top drawer.

    Is that the time?
    I quite like @leon 's suggestion. No idea who or what he is referring to. But as a general principle with wide applicability, I'm in.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    .

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    "Squad rotation" come on man FFS.
    Yes its what already happens. Its what its called.

    Besides if this goes ahead as suggested, and the players banned from international football then overall the players will be playing fewer fixtures not more than they are today. So there might be less squad rotation than occurs today, not more.

    The fact its an unsporting closed shop is an extremely valid criticism, the hyperbole over the future of the Premier League is bullshit.
    It isn't bullshit. It's entirely valid and it's amazing you can't see it.
    How?

    There is already squad rotation today. There is already prioritisation of the Champions League today. There is already a surfeit of fixtures today.

    The proposed difference in number of fixtures between the Champions League and the Super League is tiny.

    That is not the story here. The story is it being a closed shop, that is what is damning.
    I have no idea why you are separating the two. You have to consider the competition in the context of its actual circumstances.

    The Champions League does not devalue the Premier League because you have to do well in the Premier League to enter the Champions League. It maintains the pyramid.

    The Super League does the opposite.

    You arguing for the sake of it that "the EPL will be fine" because "squad rotation is nothing new" is just nonsense.

    If we were comparing an open "super league" to replace the champions league and the actual Super League, then your argument might be valid, but we're not.
    I'm saying clubs compete to win the Premier League, not just scrape fourth place.
    Lol, have you been watching football at all for the last 15 years? The race for the top 4 is one of the most compelling parts of the season narrative. Losing that will kill the PL.
    It will damage it yes, and I've said that myself since last night. I oppose it in part for that reason.

    But hyperbole helps nobody, it won't kill it, it will hurt it.

    There's a difference between hurt and kill. Losing the race for the top 4 will hurt the League, losing the best clubs in the country will kill it as a top League.
    I don't care about it being a "top League". Why as a Newcastle fan do I care about that? All I care about is it being a fair sporting competition.
    Which was my point about it being an unsporting closed shop!

    I said that, so how is that disagreeing with me?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,822

    Labour need to get John Prescott on the airwaves pronto to reminisce about that farm hand and the egg - remind everyone of the time when politicians' battering members of the public was viewed with affection.

    He (the farmhand) deserved it though, even if I probably did agree with him (the farmhand). You can't go throwing eggs at politicans just because you don't like what they stand for.

    See also John Prescott's robust response to Danbert Nobacon of Chumawamba tipping a bucket of water over him at the Brits. As Prescott later apparently related to his son: "I knocked him down, and he didn't get up again."

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751

    moonshine said:

    AlistairM said:

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    They normally played their best teams in the PL. Why? To make sure they got into the European tournaments. If they no longer have to qualify then they will field weakened sides in the PL and focus where the money is - midweek ESL matches.

    You can feel the atmosphere at a midweek Liverpool European tie even watching on TV because against the big sides they were uncommon events (few times/year max). Would it be the same week-in, week-out in the ESL? I somehow doubt it, particularly if the fans boycott it.

    Interesting that the one topic that stops everyone from talking about Covid is football!
    Clubs have competed in both the Champions League and the Premier League for years. Clubs have competed to win both for years.

    Why wouldn't they compete to win the Premier League still? You're acting as if Top 4 was all the clubs competed for, that they never competed to win titles.

    Once a club is out of the running for winning the League then absolutely they might field weaker squads - but they already do that too.
    I’m not sure why you’re taking this position but I have to say you’re coming over as quite naive.
    Its naive to think clubs will continue to want to win the Premier League?

    Lets have a bet shall we - if this goes ahead with the Big 6 still in the Premier League then in the first season it goes ahead I reckon the Premier League will be won by a Big 6 club.

    I'll wager £100 at evens if anyone wants to take the opposite opinion.
    You miss the point spectacularly. You’re not going to get Kane or Salah playing against saints at the weekend. You’re going to get the top strikers outside of the current “big 6” turning out for those all powerful big 6 “league squad” and the clubs they came from shoved further down the pecking order. The Premier League will become a finishing school for youngsters or those returning from long term injury.

    And as has now been blurted out by one of the clubs, if the Premier League don’t like that then stuff them. We’d rather play 36 Super League games than 18 a year, we only revealed this midweek plan as an opening salvo in the PR war.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    .

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    "Squad rotation" come on man FFS.
    Yes its what already happens. Its what its called.

    Besides if this goes ahead as suggested, and the players banned from international football then overall the players will be playing fewer fixtures not more than they are today. So there might be less squad rotation than occurs today, not more.

    The fact its an unsporting closed shop is an extremely valid criticism, the hyperbole over the future of the Premier League is bullshit.
    It isn't bullshit. It's entirely valid and it's amazing you can't see it.
    How?

    There is already squad rotation today. There is already prioritisation of the Champions League today. There is already a surfeit of fixtures today.

    The proposed difference in number of fixtures between the Champions League and the Super League is tiny.

    That is not the story here. The story is it being a closed shop, that is what is damning.
    I have no idea why you are separating the two. You have to consider the competition in the context of its actual circumstances.

    The Champions League does not devalue the Premier League because you have to do well in the Premier League to enter the Champions League. It maintains the pyramid.

    The Super League does the opposite.

    You arguing for the sake of it that "the EPL will be fine" because "squad rotation is nothing new" is just nonsense.

    If we were comparing an open "super league" to replace the champions league and the actual Super League, then your argument might be valid, but we're not.
    I'm saying clubs compete to win the Premier League, not just scrape fourth place.
    Lol, have you been watching football at all for the last 15 years? The race for the top 4 is one of the most compelling parts of the season narrative. Losing that will kill the PL.
    It will damage it yes, and I've said that myself since last night. I oppose it in part for that reason.

    But hyperbole helps nobody, it won't kill it, it will hurt it.

    There's a difference between hurt and kill. Losing the race for the top 4 will hurt the League, losing the best clubs in the country will kill it as a top League.
    I don't care about it being a "top League". Why as a Newcastle fan do I care about that? All I care about is it being a fair sporting competition.
    Which was my point about it being an unsporting closed shop!

    I said that, so how is that disagreeing with me?
    Because you don't think the EPL will cease to be a "top league" if the big 6 remain whereas I wholeheartedly do.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    .

    .

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    "Squad rotation" come on man FFS.
    Yes its what already happens. Its what its called.

    Besides if this goes ahead as suggested, and the players banned from international football then overall the players will be playing fewer fixtures not more than they are today. So there might be less squad rotation than occurs today, not more.

    The fact its an unsporting closed shop is an extremely valid criticism, the hyperbole over the future of the Premier League is bullshit.
    It isn't bullshit. It's entirely valid and it's amazing you can't see it.
    How?

    There is already squad rotation today. There is already prioritisation of the Champions League today. There is already a surfeit of fixtures today.

    The proposed difference in number of fixtures between the Champions League and the Super League is tiny.

    That is not the story here. The story is it being a closed shop, that is what is damning.
    I have no idea why you are separating the two. You have to consider the competition in the context of its actual circumstances.

    The Champions League does not devalue the Premier League because you have to do well in the Premier League to enter the Champions League. It maintains the pyramid.

    The Super League does the opposite.

    You arguing for the sake of it that "the EPL will be fine" because "squad rotation is nothing new" is just nonsense.

    If we were comparing an open "super league" to replace the champions league and the actual Super League, then your argument might be valid, but we're not.
    I'm saying clubs compete to win the Premier League, not just scrape fourth place.
    Lol, have you been watching football at all for the last 15 years? The race for the top 4 is one of the most compelling parts of the season narrative. Losing that will kill the PL.
    It will damage it yes, and I've said that myself since last night. I oppose it in part for that reason.

    But hyperbole helps nobody, it won't kill it, it will hurt it.

    There's a difference between hurt and kill. Losing the race for the top 4 will hurt the League, losing the best clubs in the country will kill it as a top League.
    I don't care about it being a "top League". Why as a Newcastle fan do I care about that? All I care about is it being a fair sporting competition.
    Which was my point about it being an unsporting closed shop!

    I said that, so how is that disagreeing with me?
    Because you don't think the EPL will cease to be a "top league" if the big 6 remain whereas I wholeheartedly do.
    How can the EPL be a top league if it no longer has the countries top clubs?

    It would be about as top as the Championship is top.
  • Just completed a YouGov on the Senedd election plus questions on the Super league

    And on the Super League questions I gave one answer - No
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    edited April 2021

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    "Squad rotation" come on man FFS.
    Yes its what already happens. Its what its called.

    Besides if this goes ahead as suggested, and the players banned from international football then overall the players will be playing fewer fixtures not more than they are today. So there might be less squad rotation than occurs today, not more.

    The fact its an unsporting closed shop is an extremely valid criticism, the hyperbole over the future of the Premier League is bullshit.
    It isn't bullshit. It's entirely valid and it's amazing you can't see it.
    How?

    There is already squad rotation today. There is already prioritisation of the Champions League today. There is already a surfeit of fixtures today.

    The proposed difference in number of fixtures between the Champions League and the Super League is tiny.

    That is not the story here. The story is it being a closed shop, that is what is damning.
    I have no idea why you are separating the two. You have to consider the competition in the context of its actual circumstances.

    The Champions League does not devalue the Premier League because you have to do well in the Premier League to enter the Champions League. It maintains the pyramid.

    The Super League does the opposite.

    You arguing for the sake of it that "the EPL will be fine" because "squad rotation is nothing new" is just nonsense.

    If we were comparing an open "super league" to replace the champions league and the actual Super League, then your argument might be valid, but we're not.
    I'm saying clubs compete to win the Premier League, not just scrape fourth place.
    Lol, have you been watching football at all for the last 15 years? The race for the top 4 is one of the most compelling parts of the season narrative. Losing that will kill the PL.
    It will damage it yes, and I've said that myself since last night. I oppose it in part for that reason.

    But hyperbole helps nobody, it won't kill it, it will hurt it.

    There's a difference between hurt and kill. Losing the race for the top 4 will hurt the League, losing the best clubs in the country will kill it as a top League.
    Other top clubs will emerge to replace them. In the 90s it was Arsenal vs Man United, then Chelsea and Liverpool made it a big 4 in the 00s. City and Spurs are relatively recent additions and City are wholly reliant on oil billions like Chelsea to maintain that status. The Big 6 isn't something that has existed since the beginning of time, of them I'd only class United and Liverpool as historically big clubs because of the sheer weight of silverware they've won. City and Chelsea are plastic, Arsenal had a good run but are now Banter FC and sadly at Spurs we've haven't fucking won any trophies for ages.

    You expel and be damned because there's no way that any of the 6 clubs can survive without EPL TV money and no one wants to watch those six teams play each other 6 times a year.
  • ridaligoridaligo Posts: 174
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    The EPL has a serious problem - expel them and see what happens to the money.
    Allow them to say and watch the income drop as the Premiership becomes a second rate competition ala the Scottish Premiership..

    I suspect the only reason the EPL are silent is because they are frantically working out what to do....
    Point of order! The Scottish Premiership is not a second rate competition ... it's far worse than that (and I say that as an afc fan). Seriously though, I can't help but have a wry smile on my face about the impact of this ESL plan on the EPL. Talk about hoisted by your petard. Just as the two big teams in Scotland have manufactured a situation in which they win the league before it starts every year and basically go through the motions of disposing of the cannon fodder on a weekly basis, so has the EPL trended in the same direction.

    Although most Scottish football fans outside the big two would be glad to see the back of them, the fact is that they ARE the league from a commercial point of view (as was cynically demonstrated with the infamous TV contract "guaranteeing" 4 derbies a year despite the split after 3 rounds of matches). If they left (which is looking more likely now I have to say), the league finances would be devastated and it would become a semi-pro, non-league (some might say it's that already!).

    If the big 6 in England are kicked out, the EPL is finished as an "elite" league ... therefore, not going to happen. But I hope you are all looking forward to watching Man City Colts in years to come ...
  • Ah.

    Labour sources say that, as well as shouting at Starmer, this man also physically manhandled a female member of staff, hence why he was restrained. No apology forthcoming - in fact the pub's owner has apparently apologised to Labour for the man's behaviour.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1384141188303790087
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    .

    .

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    "Squad rotation" come on man FFS.
    Yes its what already happens. Its what its called.

    Besides if this goes ahead as suggested, and the players banned from international football then overall the players will be playing fewer fixtures not more than they are today. So there might be less squad rotation than occurs today, not more.

    The fact its an unsporting closed shop is an extremely valid criticism, the hyperbole over the future of the Premier League is bullshit.
    It isn't bullshit. It's entirely valid and it's amazing you can't see it.
    How?

    There is already squad rotation today. There is already prioritisation of the Champions League today. There is already a surfeit of fixtures today.

    The proposed difference in number of fixtures between the Champions League and the Super League is tiny.

    That is not the story here. The story is it being a closed shop, that is what is damning.
    I have no idea why you are separating the two. You have to consider the competition in the context of its actual circumstances.

    The Champions League does not devalue the Premier League because you have to do well in the Premier League to enter the Champions League. It maintains the pyramid.

    The Super League does the opposite.

    You arguing for the sake of it that "the EPL will be fine" because "squad rotation is nothing new" is just nonsense.

    If we were comparing an open "super league" to replace the champions league and the actual Super League, then your argument might be valid, but we're not.
    I'm saying clubs compete to win the Premier League, not just scrape fourth place.
    Lol, have you been watching football at all for the last 15 years? The race for the top 4 is one of the most compelling parts of the season narrative. Losing that will kill the PL.
    It will damage it yes, and I've said that myself since last night. I oppose it in part for that reason.

    But hyperbole helps nobody, it won't kill it, it will hurt it.

    There's a difference between hurt and kill. Losing the race for the top 4 will hurt the League, losing the best clubs in the country will kill it as a top League.
    I don't care about it being a "top League". Why as a Newcastle fan do I care about that? All I care about is it being a fair sporting competition.
    Which was my point about it being an unsporting closed shop!

    I said that, so how is that disagreeing with me?
    Because you don't think the EPL will cease to be a "top league" if the big 6 remain whereas I wholeheartedly do.
    How can the EPL be a top league if it no longer has the countries top clubs?

    It would be about as top as the Championship is top.
    How can the EPL be a top league if it is no longer a fair sporting competition? Where certain teams automatically are entitled to more "prize money", regardless of their sporting achievement, because they happen to be "founding fathers" of some random Super League?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    I should say as well, I have been a tv watcher of the World Cup from 4 different continents (never been in person). It’s one of the few things in life that seems to unite most of the planet in unbridled pleasure and optimism, creating memories of who you were with and what you doing, even for a lot of people with only a casual interest normally. Fuck these clubs for taking that away from us.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080

    ......The Landlord of the Raven will be live on Talk Radio with Mark Dolan this afternoon......

    All we need now is Al Murray....

    Why do they give these idiots the oxygen of publicity. I have no problem with calm discourse, but we shouldn't be encouraging people to scream and shout at politicians by then giving them spots of radio shows.
  • This is the email Liverpool's CEO sent to all staff.

    Dear Colleagues,

    You will be aware of the announcement published late last night regarding Europe’s leading football Clubs coming together to establish a new mid-week competition, the European Super League, governed by its Founding Clubs.

    It’s important as a member of our team that I share with you some of the context.

    For quite some time now, Clubs, including our own, have held numerous longstanding concerns about not only the future of European football but also the way football is run by UEFA. The global pandemic has also accelerated the instability in the existing European football economic model.

    We have therefore joined AC Milan, Arsenal, Atletico Madrid, Chelsea, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus, Manchester City, Manchester United, Real Madrid and Tottenham Hotspur as Founding Clubs of the Super League. It is anticipated that a further three Clubs will join ahead of the inaugural season, which is intended to commence as soon as practicable.

    The Super League will be the future of European football and if we want to continue our journey of being a sustainable Club with ambition to grow and continue winning trophies then we should absolutely be part of that process and have a seat at the table rather than outside that group.

    The new annual tournament will provide significantly greater economic growth and support for European football via a long-term commitment to uncapped solidarity payments which will grow in line with league revenues. These solidarity payments are expected to be roughly three times what is currently achieved from UEFA competitions. One of the core commitments of the European Super League is to vastly increase financial support for the football pyramid.

    After the start of the men’s competition, a corresponding women’s league will also be launched, helping to advance and develop the women’s game.

    We know that this announcement has provoked strong feelings within the game and elsewhere but we believe this decision is in the best long-term interests of Liverpool Football Club.

    Importantly, this is the beginning of the journey and we can now start an engagement process with you, supporters and key stakeholders to help shape this process in the right way.

    There is still much more information to come in due course.

    I will keep you updated as we progress on this journey and discuss further on our Town Hall tomorrow.

    Thank you for your continued support.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Ah.

    Labour sources say that, as well as shouting at Starmer, this man also physically manhandled a female member of staff, hence why he was restrained. No apology forthcoming - in fact the pub's owner has apparently apologised to Labour for the man's behaviour.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1384141188303790087

    The Labour source was Mandy Rice Davies clearly.
  • felix said:

    Ah.

    Labour sources say that, as well as shouting at Starmer, this man also physically manhandled a female member of staff, hence why he was restrained. No apology forthcoming - in fact the pub's owner has apparently apologised to Labour for the man's behaviour.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1384141188303790087

    The Labour source was Mandy Rice Davies clearly.
    I think the fact that the pub's owner has apologised for the man's behaviour tells you everything.
  • MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Go on Boris, pass a law to fuck these fuckers

    Trouble is, I don't think there is a law that does that without horrible collateral damage.

    For the first time in ages, maybe ever, Boris hasn't been able to make something happen or unhappen by the pure force of his reputation.

    Though it might look totally different in two hours' time.
    Surely there is a restriction of trade issue for any government attempt to dictate which competitions these clubs want to play in. They have decided to set up a rival to the UEFA Champions League. What specific action can the government take to stop them?
    The FA has to sanction it and the government and FA agree policin policy for matches. The FA is essentially a public body so the government has a lot of leverage. They could banish those clubs to playing these matches behind closed doors losing about 11 matches worth of revenue, which is a huge sum for Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool and United.
    Not to mention "restraint of trade" applies primarily to individuals rather than companies, that would be competition law, but Parliament is sovereign and can do whatever the f*ck it wants, as we've literally spent the last 5 years discussing endlessly.
    Do we really want the government directing the FA to take action against certain clubs because they have decided to bypass a UEFA tournament? In reality, I can't see what the FA/PL can do about it. To expel a club for breach of the rules there has to be a vote in favour of at least 15 clubs...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Do we really want the government directing the FA to take action against certain clubs because they have decided to bypass a UEFA tournament?

    Yes
  • pingping Posts: 3,805

    This is the email Liverpool's CEO sent to all staff.

    Dear Colleagues,

    You will be aware of the announcement published late last night regarding Europe’s leading football Clubs coming together to establish a new mid-week competition, the European Super League, governed by its Founding Clubs.

    It’s important as a member of our team that I share with you some of the context.

    For quite some time now, Clubs, including our own, have held numerous longstanding concerns about not only the future of European football but also the way football is run by UEFA. The global pandemic has also accelerated the instability in the existing European football economic model.

    We have therefore joined AC Milan, Arsenal, Atletico Madrid, Chelsea, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus, Manchester City, Manchester United, Real Madrid and Tottenham Hotspur as Founding Clubs of the Super League. It is anticipated that a further three Clubs will join ahead of the inaugural season, which is intended to commence as soon as practicable.

    The Super League will be the future of European football and if we want to continue our journey of being a sustainable Club with ambition to grow and continue winning trophies then we should absolutely be part of that process and have a seat at the table rather than outside that group.

    The new annual tournament will provide significantly greater economic growth and support for European football via a long-term commitment to uncapped solidarity payments which will grow in line with league revenues. These solidarity payments are expected to be roughly three times what is currently achieved from UEFA competitions. One of the core commitments of the European Super League is to vastly increase financial support for the football pyramid.

    After the start of the men’s competition, a corresponding women’s league will also be launched, helping to advance and develop the women’s game.

    We know that this announcement has provoked strong feelings within the game and elsewhere but we believe this decision is in the best long-term interests of Liverpool Football Club.

    Importantly, this is the beginning of the journey and we can now start an engagement process with you, supporters and key stakeholders to help shape this process in the right way.

    There is still much more information to come in due course.

    I will keep you updated as we progress on this journey and discuss further on our Town Hall tomorrow.

    Thank you for your continued support.

    “ One of the core commitments of the European Super League is to vastly increase financial support for the football pyramid.”

    Pull the other one...
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679

    Ah.

    Labour sources say that, as well as shouting at Starmer, this man also physically manhandled a female member of staff, hence why he was restrained. No apology forthcoming - in fact the pub's owner has apparently apologised to Labour for the man's behaviour.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1384141188303790087

    Odd. I thought the shouty bloke was the landlord. Or was he just one of those diehard locals who think they own the place anyway?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,822
    ridaligo said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    The EPL has a serious problem - expel them and see what happens to the money.
    Allow them to say and watch the income drop as the Premiership becomes a second rate competition ala the Scottish Premiership..

    I suspect the only reason the EPL are silent is because they are frantically working out what to do....
    Point of order! The Scottish Premiership is not a second rate competition ... it's far worse than that (and I say that as an afc fan). Seriously though, I can't help but have a wry smile on my face about the impact of this ESL plan on the EPL. Talk about hoisted by your petard. Just as the two big teams in Scotland have manufactured a situation in which they win the league before it starts every year and basically go through the motions of disposing of the cannon fodder on a weekly basis, so has the EPL trended in the same direction.

    Although most Scottish football fans outside the big two would be glad to see the back of them, the fact is that they ARE the league from a commercial point of view (as was cynically demonstrated with the infamous TV contract "guaranteeing" 4 derbies a year despite the split after 3 rounds of matches). If they left (which is looking more likely now I have to say), the league finances would be devastated and it would become a semi-pro, non-league (some might say it's that already!).

    If the big 6 in England are kicked out, the EPL is finished as an "elite" league ... therefore, not going to happen. But I hope you are all looking forward to watching Man City Colts in years to come ...
    What's wrong with a semi-pro league?
    I can't be the only one who would rather see a compeitive league than a rich one.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited April 2021

    Do we really want the government directing the FA to take action against certain clubs because they have decided to bypass a UEFA tournament?

    Yes
    Indeed.

    Come on Boris. Time to step up and save football.

    Opportunities like this don’t come around very often.
  • This is the email Liverpool's CEO sent to all staff.

    Dear Colleagues,

    You will be aware of the announcement published late last night regarding Europe’s leading football Clubs coming together to establish a new mid-week competition, the European Super League, governed by its Founding Clubs.

    It’s important as a member of our team that I share with you some of the context.

    For quite some time now, Clubs, including our own, have held numerous longstanding concerns about not only the future of European football but also the way football is run by UEFA. The global pandemic has also accelerated the instability in the existing European football economic model.

    We have therefore joined AC Milan, Arsenal, Atletico Madrid, Chelsea, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus, Manchester City, Manchester United, Real Madrid and Tottenham Hotspur as Founding Clubs of the Super League. It is anticipated that a further three Clubs will join ahead of the inaugural season, which is intended to commence as soon as practicable.

    The Super League will be the future of European football and if we want to continue our journey of being a sustainable Club with ambition to grow and continue winning trophies then we should absolutely be part of that process and have a seat at the table rather than outside that group.

    The new annual tournament will provide significantly greater economic growth and support for European football via a long-term commitment to uncapped solidarity payments which will grow in line with league revenues. These solidarity payments are expected to be roughly three times what is currently achieved from UEFA competitions. One of the core commitments of the European Super League is to vastly increase financial support for the football pyramid.

    After the start of the men’s competition, a corresponding women’s league will also be launched, helping to advance and develop the women’s game.

    We know that this announcement has provoked strong feelings within the game and elsewhere but we believe this decision is in the best long-term interests of Liverpool Football Club.

    Importantly, this is the beginning of the journey and we can now start an engagement process with you, supporters and key stakeholders to help shape this process in the right way.

    There is still much more information to come in due course.

    I will keep you updated as we progress on this journey and discuss further on our Town Hall tomorrow.

    Thank you for your continued support.

    They do have a point about UEFA!
  • Do we really want the government directing the FA to take action against certain clubs because they have decided to bypass a UEFA tournament?

    Yes
    Ironically that's the kind of action that sees UEFA/FIFA bans national associations for, which means they cannot play international football.

    From 2018.

    FIFA has suspended the Sierra Leone Football Association (SLFA) with immediate effect due to government interference in soccer affairs, the sport's world governing body said here on Friday.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-sle-fifa-ban-idUKKCN1MF27A
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Ah.

    Labour sources say that, as well as shouting at Starmer, this man also physically manhandled a female member of staff, hence why he was restrained. No apology forthcoming - in fact the pub's owner has apparently apologised to Labour for the man's behaviour.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1384141188303790087

    Odd. I thought the shouty bloke was the landlord. Or was he just one of those diehard locals who think they own the place anyway?
    The landlord presumably is the person who has the license to operate the establishment, and might be different from the person who owns it?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    ......The Landlord of the Raven will be live on Talk Radio with Mark Dolan this afternoon......

    All we need now is Al Murray....

    Why do they give these idiots the oxygen of publicity. I have no problem with calm discourse, but we shouldn't be encouraging people to scream and shout at politicians by then giving them spots of radio shows.
    Feelings are running high. Many hardworking small business people have been completely steam-rollered by the government and they are angry.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    This is the email Liverpool's CEO sent to all staff.

    Dear Colleagues,

    You will be aware of the announcement published late last night regarding Europe’s leading football Clubs coming together to establish a new mid-week competition, the European Super League, governed by its Founding Clubs.

    It’s important as a member of our team that I share with you some of the context.

    For quite some time now, Clubs, including our own, have held numerous longstanding concerns about not only the future of European football but also the way football is run by UEFA. The global pandemic has also accelerated the instability in the existing European football economic model.

    We have therefore joined AC Milan, Arsenal, Atletico Madrid, Chelsea, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus, Manchester City, Manchester United, Real Madrid and Tottenham Hotspur as Founding Clubs of the Super League. It is anticipated that a further three Clubs will join ahead of the inaugural season, which is intended to commence as soon as practicable.

    The Super League will be the future of European football and if we want to continue our journey of being a sustainable Club with ambition to grow and continue winning trophies then we should absolutely be part of that process and have a seat at the table rather than outside that group.

    The new annual tournament will provide significantly greater economic growth and support for European football via a long-term commitment to uncapped solidarity payments which will grow in line with league revenues. These solidarity payments are expected to be roughly three times what is currently achieved from UEFA competitions. One of the core commitments of the European Super League is to vastly increase financial support for the football pyramid.

    After the start of the men’s competition, a corresponding women’s league will also be launched, helping to advance and develop the women’s game.

    We know that this announcement has provoked strong feelings within the game and elsewhere but we believe this decision is in the best long-term interests of Liverpool Football Club.

    Importantly, this is the beginning of the journey and we can now start an engagement process with you, supporters and key stakeholders to help shape this process in the right way.

    There is still much more information to come in due course.

    I will keep you updated as we progress on this journey and discuss further on our Town Hall tomorrow.

    Thank you for your continued support.

    Lol, what a joke. It's literally lie after lie after lie. Madrid and Barca have been going bankrupt for a decade, COVID had nothing to do with Barca spending €500m keeping Messi in employment and another €500m on players that barely get any game time.

    How are Liverpool fans taking this? Spurs fans are basically all anti, even though it guarantees Spurs an elite place every season, almost all are against it.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    felix said:

    Ah.

    Labour sources say that, as well as shouting at Starmer, this man also physically manhandled a female member of staff, hence why he was restrained. No apology forthcoming - in fact the pub's owner has apparently apologised to Labour for the man's behaviour.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1384141188303790087

    The Labour source was Mandy Rice Davies clearly.
    Newton-Dunn may as well call himself a secretary because all he does is take political dictation.
  • MaxPB said:


    Lol, what a joke. It's literally lie after lie after lie. Madrid and Barca have been going bankrupt for a decade, COVID had nothing to do with Barca spending €500m keeping Messi in employment and another €500m on players that barely get any game time.

    How are Liverpool fans taking this? Spurs fans are basically all anti, even though it guarantees Spurs an elite place every season, almost all are against it.

    Judging by the forums/groups I belong to I'd say it is about 99% opposed to it.

    I'll be honest, I suspect about 85% of them will suck it up, because there's FOMO, and the fact it is the club we've supported our entire lives.

    They are ripping into for the fact that four of the twelve super clubs have never won the Champions League/European Cup and the fact that Spurs and Arsenal are in it.

    The only positive things about it is that Everton weren't invited and the fact most fans view UEFA with disdain.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    MaxPB said:

    This is the email Liverpool's CEO sent to all staff.

    Dear Colleagues,

    You will be aware of the announcement published late last night regarding Europe’s leading football Clubs coming together to establish a new mid-week competition, the European Super League, governed by its Founding Clubs.

    It’s important as a member of our team that I share with you some of the context.

    For quite some time now, Clubs, including our own, have held numerous longstanding concerns about not only the future of European football but also the way football is run by UEFA. The global pandemic has also accelerated the instability in the existing European football economic model.

    We have therefore joined AC Milan, Arsenal, Atletico Madrid, Chelsea, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus, Manchester City, Manchester United, Real Madrid and Tottenham Hotspur as Founding Clubs of the Super League. It is anticipated that a further three Clubs will join ahead of the inaugural season, which is intended to commence as soon as practicable.

    The Super League will be the future of European football and if we want to continue our journey of being a sustainable Club with ambition to grow and continue winning trophies then we should absolutely be part of that process and have a seat at the table rather than outside that group.

    The new annual tournament will provide significantly greater economic growth and support for European football via a long-term commitment to uncapped solidarity payments which will grow in line with league revenues. These solidarity payments are expected to be roughly three times what is currently achieved from UEFA competitions. One of the core commitments of the European Super League is to vastly increase financial support for the football pyramid.

    After the start of the men’s competition, a corresponding women’s league will also be launched, helping to advance and develop the women’s game.

    We know that this announcement has provoked strong feelings within the game and elsewhere but we believe this decision is in the best long-term interests of Liverpool Football Club.

    Importantly, this is the beginning of the journey and we can now start an engagement process with you, supporters and key stakeholders to help shape this process in the right way.

    There is still much more information to come in due course.

    I will keep you updated as we progress on this journey and discuss further on our Town Hall tomorrow.

    Thank you for your continued support.

    Lol, what a joke. It's literally lie after lie after lie. Madrid and Barca have been going bankrupt for a decade, COVID had nothing to do with Barca spending €500m keeping Messi in employment and another €500m on players that barely get any game time.

    How are Liverpool fans taking this? Spurs fans are basically all anti, even though it guarantees Spurs an elite place every season, almost all are against it.
    My son has just picked up his phone from school reception. Safe to say he’s not happy.
  • ......The Landlord of the Raven will be live on Talk Radio with Mark Dolan this afternoon......

    All we need now is Al Murray....

    Why do they give these idiots the oxygen of publicity. I have no problem with calm discourse, but we shouldn't be encouraging people to scream and shout at politicians by then giving them spots of radio shows.
    Feelings are running high. Many hardworking small business people have been completely steam-rollered by the government and they are angry.

    Only those who drive round in top end range rovers but declare £11k a year income. Everyone else has had a more than decent bit of support.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419

    MaxPB said:


    Lol, what a joke. It's literally lie after lie after lie. Madrid and Barca have been going bankrupt for a decade, COVID had nothing to do with Barca spending €500m keeping Messi in employment and another €500m on players that barely get any game time.

    How are Liverpool fans taking this? Spurs fans are basically all anti, even though it guarantees Spurs an elite place every season, almost all are against it.

    Judging by the forums/groups I belong to I'd say it is about 99% opposed to it.

    I'll be honest, I suspect about 85% of them will suck it up, because there's FOMO, and the fact it is the club we've supported our entire lives.

    They are ripping into for the fact that four of the twelve super clubs have never won the Champions League/European Cup and the fact that Spurs and Arsenal are in it.

    The only positive things about it is that Everton weren't invited and the fact most fans view UEFA with disdain.
    But how many opposed the premier league when it was first proposed. There was outrage over the idea at the time and talks of banning the teams from football league competitions and so on.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    @iainjwatson: India added to travel #RedList list - from 4am friday
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    Scott_xP said:

    @iainjwatson: India added to travel #RedList list - from 4am friday

    And now we will see a mad rush of arrivals for 4 days.
  • Taz said:

    MaxPB said:


    Lol, what a joke. It's literally lie after lie after lie. Madrid and Barca have been going bankrupt for a decade, COVID had nothing to do with Barca spending €500m keeping Messi in employment and another €500m on players that barely get any game time.

    How are Liverpool fans taking this? Spurs fans are basically all anti, even though it guarantees Spurs an elite place every season, almost all are against it.

    Judging by the forums/groups I belong to I'd say it is about 99% opposed to it.

    I'll be honest, I suspect about 85% of them will suck it up, because there's FOMO, and the fact it is the club we've supported our entire lives.

    They are ripping into for the fact that four of the twelve super clubs have never won the Champions League/European Cup and the fact that Spurs and Arsenal are in it.

    The only positive things about it is that Everton weren't invited and the fact most fans view UEFA with disdain.
    But how many opposed the premier league when it was first proposed. There was outrage over the idea at the time and talks of banning the teams from football league competitions and so on.
    But you could get relegated from the Premier League.

    This is a closed shop.

    This is the express highway to a glorified version of the Scottish Premier League.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,202
    Scott_xP said:

    @iainjwatson: India added to travel #RedList list - from 4am friday

    Need to make sure we take our time closing those barn doors.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419

    Ah.

    Labour sources say that, as well as shouting at Starmer, this man also physically manhandled a female member of staff, hence why he was restrained. No apology forthcoming - in fact the pub's owner has apparently apologised to Labour for the man's behaviour.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1384141188303790087

    Do journalists even bother fact checking these days ? He’s just rehashing the labour line verbatim.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,822

    MaxPB said:


    Lol, what a joke. It's literally lie after lie after lie. Madrid and Barca have been going bankrupt for a decade, COVID had nothing to do with Barca spending €500m keeping Messi in employment and another €500m on players that barely get any game time.

    How are Liverpool fans taking this? Spurs fans are basically all anti, even though it guarantees Spurs an elite place every season, almost all are against it.

    Judging by the forums/groups I belong to I'd say it is about 99% opposed to it.

    I'll be honest, I suspect about 85% of them will suck it up, because there's FOMO, and the fact it is the club we've supported our entire lives.

    They are ripping into for the fact that four of the twelve super clubs have never won the Champions League/European Cup and the fact that Spurs and Arsenal are in it.

    The only positive things about it is that Everton weren't invited and the fact most fans view UEFA with disdain.
    Show some balls man! [Metaphorically] Find another club that deserves your support. You don't get many chances to change club in life. This is the perfect opportunity.
    I reckon far fewer than 85% will stick with it. Football fans of my aquaintance typically seem to loathe football as it has become. Typically they say they carry on going out of force of habit, or because it is how they see one particular group of friends, of relatives, or some such. Most seem desperate for a reason to stop.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,691
    1⃣0⃣,1⃣5⃣2⃣,0⃣3⃣9⃣

    More than 10m people in the UK have now had two doses of a Covid-19 vaccine
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Taz said:

    MaxPB said:


    Lol, what a joke. It's literally lie after lie after lie. Madrid and Barca have been going bankrupt for a decade, COVID had nothing to do with Barca spending €500m keeping Messi in employment and another €500m on players that barely get any game time.

    How are Liverpool fans taking this? Spurs fans are basically all anti, even though it guarantees Spurs an elite place every season, almost all are against it.

    Judging by the forums/groups I belong to I'd say it is about 99% opposed to it.

    I'll be honest, I suspect about 85% of them will suck it up, because there's FOMO, and the fact it is the club we've supported our entire lives.

    They are ripping into for the fact that four of the twelve super clubs have never won the Champions League/European Cup and the fact that Spurs and Arsenal are in it.

    The only positive things about it is that Everton weren't invited and the fact most fans view UEFA with disdain.
    But how many opposed the premier league when it was first proposed. There was outrage over the idea at the time and talks of banning the teams from football league competitions and so on.
    But this isn't the same thing, the Premier League was a new elite level at the top of the pyramid, it had relegation into the EFL and promotion from it. It was built in conjunction with the existing systems. This is completely outside of the pyramid.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419

    Taz said:

    MaxPB said:


    Lol, what a joke. It's literally lie after lie after lie. Madrid and Barca have been going bankrupt for a decade, COVID had nothing to do with Barca spending €500m keeping Messi in employment and another €500m on players that barely get any game time.

    How are Liverpool fans taking this? Spurs fans are basically all anti, even though it guarantees Spurs an elite place every season, almost all are against it.

    Judging by the forums/groups I belong to I'd say it is about 99% opposed to it.

    I'll be honest, I suspect about 85% of them will suck it up, because there's FOMO, and the fact it is the club we've supported our entire lives.

    They are ripping into for the fact that four of the twelve super clubs have never won the Champions League/European Cup and the fact that Spurs and Arsenal are in it.

    The only positive things about it is that Everton weren't invited and the fact most fans view UEFA with disdain.
    But how many opposed the premier league when it was first proposed. There was outrage over the idea at the time and talks of banning the teams from football league competitions and so on.
    But you could get relegated from the Premier League.

    This is a closed shop.

    This is the express highway to a glorified version of the Scottish Premier League.

    Changes and compromises were made after the initial EPL announcement to get to,that situation. I expect some compromise will be forthcoming
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    @Keir_Starmer: My statement on being confronted in a pub today:

    https://tinyurl.com/ybdt9axd
  • Cookie said:

    MaxPB said:


    Lol, what a joke. It's literally lie after lie after lie. Madrid and Barca have been going bankrupt for a decade, COVID had nothing to do with Barca spending €500m keeping Messi in employment and another €500m on players that barely get any game time.

    How are Liverpool fans taking this? Spurs fans are basically all anti, even though it guarantees Spurs an elite place every season, almost all are against it.

    Judging by the forums/groups I belong to I'd say it is about 99% opposed to it.

    I'll be honest, I suspect about 85% of them will suck it up, because there's FOMO, and the fact it is the club we've supported our entire lives.

    They are ripping into for the fact that four of the twelve super clubs have never won the Champions League/European Cup and the fact that Spurs and Arsenal are in it.

    The only positive things about it is that Everton weren't invited and the fact most fans view UEFA with disdain.
    Show some balls man! [Metaphorically] Find another club that deserves your support. You don't get many chances to change club in life. This is the perfect opportunity.
    I reckon far fewer than 85% will stick with it. Football fans of my aquaintance typically seem to loathe football as it has become. Typically they say they carry on going out of force of habit, or because it is how they see one particular group of friends, of relatives, or some such. Most seem desperate for a reason to stop.
    Look, in recent years I've already given up on a lifelong association with the Tory Party, I'm not sure I can give up on LFC either.

    If I stop supporting Liverpool then that's me done with football, I cannot transfer my loyalties elsewhere, I just cannot.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Taz said:

    Ah.

    Labour sources say that, as well as shouting at Starmer, this man also physically manhandled a female member of staff, hence why he was restrained. No apology forthcoming - in fact the pub's owner has apparently apologised to Labour for the man's behaviour.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1384141188303790087

    Do journalists even bother fact checking these days ? He’s just rehashing the labour line verbatim.
    In the main, no. As sadly shown by many incidents. One is reminded of the story about a Tory MP (or was it advisor?) being punched by a Labour person during the 2019 election, which was repeated by most political journalists for hours until the video came out and clearly showed it hadn't happened. It's very disappointing, and doesn't help inform the public.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865

    Scott_xP said:

    @iainjwatson: India added to travel #RedList list - from 4am friday

    And now we will see a mad rush of arrivals for 4 days.
    No flights aiui, lots of panic from NRIs who thought India would never be red listed.
  • Do we really want the government directing the FA to take action against certain clubs because they have decided to bypass a UEFA tournament?

    Yes
    Ironically that's the kind of action that sees UEFA/FIFA bans national associations for, which means they cannot play international football.

    From 2018.

    FIFA has suspended the Sierra Leone Football Association (SLFA) with immediate effect due to government interference in soccer affairs, the sport's world governing body said here on Friday.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-sle-fifa-ban-idUKKCN1MF27A
    Exactly my point. Direct government interference in the operation of sport is a Bad Thing. If Football is going to stop the ESL from occurring then it is up to football to do so. As the EFL are effectively powerless due to 6 teams joining the ESL, then the sanction will have to come down from UEFA or FIFA. The idea that a government can step in and fiddle with sport because a club has done something unpopular is not a precedent we want to set.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    MaxPB said:


    Lol, what a joke. It's literally lie after lie after lie. Madrid and Barca have been going bankrupt for a decade, COVID had nothing to do with Barca spending €500m keeping Messi in employment and another €500m on players that barely get any game time.

    How are Liverpool fans taking this? Spurs fans are basically all anti, even though it guarantees Spurs an elite place every season, almost all are against it.

    Judging by the forums/groups I belong to I'd say it is about 99% opposed to it.

    I'll be honest, I suspect about 85% of them will suck it up, because there's FOMO, and the fact it is the club we've supported our entire lives.

    They are ripping into for the fact that four of the twelve super clubs have never won the Champions League/European Cup and the fact that Spurs and Arsenal are in it.

    The only positive things about it is that Everton weren't invited and the fact most fans view UEFA with disdain.
    But how many opposed the premier league when it was first proposed. There was outrage over the idea at the time and talks of banning the teams from football league competitions and so on.
    But you could get relegated from the Premier League.

    This is a closed shop.

    This is the express highway to a glorified version of the Scottish Premier League.

    Changes and compromises were made after the initial EPL announcement to get to,that situation. I expect some compromise will be forthcoming
    I don't

    The only acceptable compromise is to continue with either a qualification process (top x positions in the national league) or promotion and relegation.

    Neither of those items are things the founders of the league understand nor want.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    felix said:

    Ah.

    Labour sources say that, as well as shouting at Starmer, this man also physically manhandled a female member of staff, hence why he was restrained. No apology forthcoming - in fact the pub's owner has apparently apologised to Labour for the man's behaviour.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1384141188303790087

    The Labour source was Mandy Rice Davies clearly.
    I think the fact that the pub's owner has apologised for the man's behaviour tells you everything.
    Nope.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    Scott_xP said:

    @iainjwatson: India added to travel #RedList list - from 4am friday

    Just enough time for 10,000 to get out.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    edited April 2021
    Perhaps a mistake of the ESL was to make it too elitist....I wonder if they had proposed a two division system, with an element of promotion / relegation?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    1⃣0⃣,1⃣5⃣2⃣,0⃣3⃣9⃣

    More than 10m people in the UK have now had two doses of a Covid-19 vaccine

    Get my second on Wednesday.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,419
    Scott_xP said:

    @Keir_Starmer: My statement on being confronted in a pub today:

    https://tinyurl.com/ybdt9axd

    Scott n paste strikes again 👍
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Scott_xP said:

    @Keir_Starmer: My statement on being confronted in a pub today:

    https://tinyurl.com/ybdt9axd

    Why was he IN a pub?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    moonshine said:

    I should say as well, I have been a tv watcher of the World Cup from 4 different continents (never been in person). It’s one of the few things in life that seems to unite most of the planet in unbridled pleasure and optimism, creating memories of who you were with and what you doing, even for a lot of people with only a casual interest normally. Fuck these clubs for taking that away from us.

    Hear Hear

    It is one the most repulsive acts of myopic, arrogant, over-entitled greed that I have ever-witnessed. It is breathtaking in its avarice as much as its stupidity. It will, I suspect, blow them all up.
  • lloydylloydy Posts: 36

    Scott_xP said:

    @iainjwatson: India added to travel #RedList list - from 4am friday

    And now we will see a mad rush of arrivals for 4 days.
    Why by the balls of Beelzebub do they do this?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Scott_xP said:

    @Keir_Starmer: My statement on being confronted in a pub today:

    https://tinyurl.com/ybdt9axd

    Scottn'Paste pasted the wrong link!
  • ridaligoridaligo Posts: 174
    Cookie said:

    ridaligo said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    More of that remarkable Sky interview


    "If the Big Six stay in the Premiership, they will focus on midweek games, and very possibly field weakened teams for the EPL."

    This is what I predicted downthread.

    They are destroying the EPL, quite openly. They are daring the EPL to expel them, by admitting they will undermine it, and don't care anyway

    https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1384137782973456387?s=20

    The EPL won't expel them.

    Squad rotation is something that has long happened, it isn't an original concept.
    The EPL has a serious problem - expel them and see what happens to the money.
    Allow them to say and watch the income drop as the Premiership becomes a second rate competition ala the Scottish Premiership..

    I suspect the only reason the EPL are silent is because they are frantically working out what to do....
    Point of order! The Scottish Premiership is not a second rate competition ... it's far worse than that (and I say that as an afc fan). Seriously though, I can't help but have a wry smile on my face about the impact of this ESL plan on the EPL. Talk about hoisted by your petard. Just as the two big teams in Scotland have manufactured a situation in which they win the league before it starts every year and basically go through the motions of disposing of the cannon fodder on a weekly basis, so has the EPL trended in the same direction.

    Although most Scottish football fans outside the big two would be glad to see the back of them, the fact is that they ARE the league from a commercial point of view (as was cynically demonstrated with the infamous TV contract "guaranteeing" 4 derbies a year despite the split after 3 rounds of matches). If they left (which is looking more likely now I have to say), the league finances would be devastated and it would become a semi-pro, non-league (some might say it's that already!).

    If the big 6 in England are kicked out, the EPL is finished as an "elite" league ... therefore, not going to happen. But I hope you are all looking forward to watching Man City Colts in years to come ...
    What's wrong with a semi-pro league?
    I can't be the only one who would rather see a compeitive league than a rich one.
    Nothing wrong with it all ... but how many fans will actually turn up at 3 o'clock on a Saturday to watch it?

    If the big 6 do get kicked out (or even if they don't) despite all the howls of protest the owners know that most fans are still fans first and customers second ... 90% of them will still support the club and that's the calculation the big 6 have made (along with the fact that local fans are a minority now and the growth market is Asia anyway). Sad but true. The game was lost a long time ago when the EPL became an entertainment product rather than a tribal "don't care how pretty we play as long as we win" sporting competition.

    I'm not sure that modern fans, brought up on a diet of live EPL on Sky, have the same mindset as us traditionalists.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edited April 2021
    Floater said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Keir_Starmer: My statement on being confronted in a pub today:

    https://tinyurl.com/ybdt9axd

    Why was he IN a pub?
    I think it's a typo, in the video he is in the street outside the pub. He may have entered the pub with his team briefly to get away from the man shouting at him.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001
    lloydy said:

    Why by the balls of Beelzebub do they do this?

    What do you expect from a Clown car?
  • https://twitter.com/PoliticalPics/status/1384159420725141512

    Goodness me that is not a healthy man whatsoever, he needs to hit the gym
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    https://twitter.com/PoliticalPics/status/1384159420725141512

    Goodness me that is not a healthy man whatsoever, he needs to hit the gym

    He's still got the charm tho. Look at the adoring faces of the public
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited April 2021
    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    I should say as well, I have been a tv watcher of the World Cup from 4 different continents (never been in person). It’s one of the few things in life that seems to unite most of the planet in unbridled pleasure and optimism, creating memories of who you were with and what you doing, even for a lot of people with only a casual interest normally. Fuck these clubs for taking that away from us.

    Hear Hear

    It is one the most repulsive acts of myopic, arrogant, over-entitled greed that I have ever-witnessed. It is breathtaking in its avarice as much as its stupidity. It will, I suspect, blow them all up.
    Hope so.

    Still there’s a big open goal for Boris. He can single-handedly save football. It’s a penalty without a keeper.

    Political opportunities like this don’t come around very often.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Quincel said:

    Floater said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Keir_Starmer: My statement on being confronted in a pub today:

    https://tinyurl.com/ybdt9axd

    Why was he IN a pub?
    I think it's a typo, in the video he is in the street outside the pub. He may have entered the pub with his team briefly to get away from the man shouting at him.
    In the second video, he was exiting the pub
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Perhaps a mistake of the ESL was to make it too elitist....I wonder if they had proposed a two division system, with an element of promotion / relegation?

    Pure greed. If they had just allowed one relegation a season, including the - boak - Founding Fathers, then much of the wild anger would have been defused. It would still be horribly unpopular, but not the Work of Satan.

    This, this is the Work of Satan. No relegation at all. The big 12 clubs are the big 12 clubs for the rest of time, and no one else will ever break in.

    It is despicable. The ruination of the world's favourite sport. It cannot stand
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,874

    Leon said:

    Go on Boris, pass a law to fuck these fuckers

    The quality of discourse gets ever better on PB. This really is top drawer.

    Is that the time?
    Surely drawers would have to be lowered?
  • Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/PoliticalPics/status/1384159420725141512

    Goodness me that is not a healthy man whatsoever, he needs to hit the gym

    He's still got the charm tho. Look at the adoring faces of the public
    You're right however he's not setting a good example to people, he said just a few months ago how important losing weight was, he's evidently not stuck to that.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200
    Oh dear. Rotten luck for Keir there. That "Rod Humphries" sounds utterly ghastly. Thank the lord he won't be voting Labour.
  • This is the email Liverpool's CEO sent to all staff.

    Dear Colleagues,

    You will be aware of the announcement published late last night regarding Europe’s leading football Clubs coming together to establish a new mid-week competition, the European Super League, governed by its Founding Clubs.

    It’s important as a member of our team that I share with you some of the context.

    For quite some time now, Clubs, including our own, have held numerous longstanding concerns about not only the future of European football but also the way football is run by UEFA. The global pandemic has also accelerated the instability in the existing European football economic model.

    We have therefore joined AC Milan, Arsenal, Atletico Madrid, Chelsea, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus, Manchester City, Manchester United, Real Madrid and Tottenham Hotspur as Founding Clubs of the Super League. It is anticipated that a further three Clubs will join ahead of the inaugural season, which is intended to commence as soon as practicable.

    The Super League will be the future of European football and if we want to continue our journey of being a sustainable Club with ambition to grow and continue winning trophies then we should absolutely be part of that process and have a seat at the table rather than outside that group.

    The new annual tournament will provide significantly greater economic growth and support for European football via a long-term commitment to uncapped solidarity payments which will grow in line with league revenues. These solidarity payments are expected to be roughly three times what is currently achieved from UEFA competitions. One of the core commitments of the European Super League is to vastly increase financial support for the football pyramid.

    After the start of the men’s competition, a corresponding women’s league will also be launched, helping to advance and develop the women’s game.

    We know that this announcement has provoked strong feelings within the game and elsewhere but we believe this decision is in the best long-term interests of Liverpool Football Club.

    Importantly, this is the beginning of the journey and we can now start an engagement process with you, supporters and key stakeholders to help shape this process in the right way.

    There is still much more information to come in due course.

    I will keep you updated as we progress on this journey and discuss further on our Town Hall tomorrow.

    Thank you for your continued support.

    That last sentence must be one of the most out of touch sentences ever made by a football club, and there have been many
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,874

    Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/PoliticalPics/status/1384159420725141512

    Goodness me that is not a healthy man whatsoever, he needs to hit the gym

    He's still got the charm tho. Look at the adoring faces of the public
    You're right however he's not setting a good example to people, he said just a few months ago how important losing weight was, he's evidently not stuck to that.
    He did also about last May (?) when he left hospital. All that talk about obesity campaigns.
This discussion has been closed.