But this looks remarkably like short term greed rather than longer term. That is good for the quarterly reports and hence executive compensation, but bad for shareholders and fans alike.
I hope bookies open a market on whether a ball will be kicked in an ESL fixture in the next five years. I'd re-mortgage my house to pile on "no". All a negotiating ploy.
Clubs joining an ESL would damage their brands short-run, and doom them long run.
Short run, they will lose a lot of the sense of place and history which, as Leon says, is an important part of the worldwide appeal.
They might, for a while, still have enough brand value to keep flogging shirts and so on. But they would struggle to attract the best players at the peak of their career. Kids still grow up dreaming of the Premier League (or La Liga or whatever), the Champions League, playing for their country. If these teams and players are excluded from that, they will become retirement homes for fading stars at the fag end of their careers, like the US, Japanese, and Chinese leagues. In the longer term, that kills the brand. They become historical relics, while the big stars build the brands outside the ESL - whether that's Bayern Munich, Ajax, and PSG; English teams like Everton, Aston Villa, and Leeds; or in a few years reborn clubs like "FC Liverpool" or "Arsenal '21".
I think the big clubs know that, and it's all a negotiating ploy for a bigger slice of pie. Just doesn't make sense as a genuine plan.
I would be delighted to see anything which undermines football and reduces the widespread obsession with it. In reality , millions could not give a toss. Happy to see a few top teams go bust under a mountain of debt. Utterly demeaning to see senior politicians getting involved in something so inconsequential. I cannot imagine the likes of Baldwin , Chamberlain, Churchill, Attlee, Eden, Macmillan, Douglas - Home, Heath , Callaghan interfering in something so trivial.
Excellent posting,@justin124. I, & millions more, simply could not give a toss.
As @Leon has begun to bloviate on football, I imagine this thread, and the next 10 threads, are already lost.
But is the divide 52/48 again ?
I have almost no interest in football, but I can see the issue is potentially of great political salience.
It is salient as it is a parable for our times. Football has come a long way since five-year old little Tony Blair sat behind the goal and watched Jackie Milburn play for Newcastle United 😉
In fact, just like Tony, football discovered .... money.
I suspect the divide is much wider than 52/48 in favour of @justin124. Few women are remotely interested in football. And there are a minority of very loud men who shout a lot & make it seem "more important than life and death".
My guess is that it is closer to 65:35 in favour of @justin124.
And I suspect fewer than 35% passionately care about fisheries, or agriculture, or mining or whatever political subject is newsworthy today or yesteryear.
If politicians only spoke about sectors of the economy that a majority cared about we'd be restricted to maybe the NHS and Education and nothing else whatsoever to fund them.
Might suit Justin that, but not any successful politician from this era or history.
Oh, I completely agree the issue is perfect for Boris. He will be taking action & be seen to be doing something, for sure.
He will dislodge a few more bricks from the Red Wall. And any hope for a serious discussion of lobbying has gone. Absolutely perfect for Boris.
He needs a few soccer anecdotes though for the male bonding.
You know, how Boris bunked off studying Immanuel Kant at Eton to watch a wonder goal at Chelsea .... and scored a couple of times himself later that night.
Yes, I can hear him now, riffing away at the next Covid briefing -
"We have not embarked on the business of taking back control from the Eurocrats on the continent only to see a European superleague getting ready to exercise a new dominance over our beloved national game. No, I say. It's not happening. Not if your very own Boris and this People's government have anything to do with it."
I hope bookies open a market on whether a ball will be kicked in an ESL fixture in the next five years. I'd re-mortgage my house to pile on "no". All a negotiating ploy.
Indeed. Ain't going to happen.
There's a rough proxy for this, Leicester are shorter than Man U in the betting for the Prem.
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
I think most of us agree on that (I certainly do). The question is whether the value to this country in increasing revenue from those places, at the cost of doing probably unfixable damage to one of our long-standing cultural institutions, is a worthwhile trade-off.
If you like, feel free to rewrite my previous sentence such that it's not immediately obvious what the answer should be.
The Premier League is not one of our long-standing cultural institutions. Football is one of our long-standing cultural institutions. And football will continue being played, and watched, whatever a bunch of transient millionaires employed by another bunch of transient millionaires do.
The more I think about this, the keener I am on it. It feels like an Augean Stables moment. I just wish it had happened back in the mid-noughties when the top six and the England team were almost entirely devoid likeability.
I hope bookies open a market on whether a ball will be kicked in an ESL fixture in the next five years. I'd re-mortgage my house to pile on "no". All a negotiating ploy.
Indeed. Ain't going to happen.
Yet they have opened a book and they expect it to happen
4/7 SL starts by 2023
5/4 it doesn’t
I’m afraid you’re in denial. It is clear, now, this is no bluff. It is deadly serious, and disastrous for football across Europe. It’s a coup.
And the Germans hate it and will never join it, so it means football is split, perhaps irrevocably
Again, the nearest comparison is the rugby code split, which persists today - harmful as ever - after 120 years
Obviously Justin is unaware of the behind the scenes work Harold Wilson and Ted Heath did to help the MCC over the D'Oliveira affair when the Saffers were banned from touring England in 1970.
British cricket needed that revenue.
Attlee also helped in getting football restarted after WWII, as they moved on from the wartime league.
whih considering many countries, at great cost, are going all-in on it it's nothing like enough - in Denmark we are banking now on delivery of Pfizer because Moderna deliveries are much lower than desired, no AZ and we are banking on Johnson and Johnson but having banned AZ it's going to be funny watching our idiot medicines regulator produce a justification for J&J.
We are though going to be allowed to volunteer "at our own risk" to have one of the AZ doses that otherwise will be chucked - BUT they are going to delay this so long that in the SSIs own words - the point of it will be lost by the time it happens.
Hopefully other EU countries aren't being as risk averse as Denmark which in most respects is waaaaaaay less risk averse than the UK.
Havent really been following the wendyball saga, i thought it was just discussions. It's all been signed? If so an impressive coup considering how many people would have needed to know for it happen.
If true this fucks FIFA and Qatar. Which is some solace
BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨
BREAKING: UK Digital Secretary Oliver Dowden has issued a Public Interest Intervention Notice on Nvidia's $40 billion takeover of Arm on national security grounds
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
I agree with your basic point. But I am not sure matchday income really shows that.
If you relocated Manchester United to Dubai (heaven forfend etc) there would still be very extensive matchday revenue. Indeed, somewhere like Dubai is jam packed with people with money to burn but not enough to spend it on.
A bit of an issue for non-London clubs at present is that some cities where English teams are located aren't great for matchday revenue as presumably a fair slice of that is corporate (an easier sell in London than Newcastle) and local fan income also tends to be lower.
If true this fucks FIFA and Qatar. Which is some solace
BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
I think most of us agree on that (I certainly do). The question is whether the value to this country in increasing revenue from those places, at the cost of doing probably unfixable damage to one of our long-standing cultural institutions, is a worthwhile trade-off.
If you like, feel free to rewrite my previous sentence such that it's not immediately obvious what the answer should be.
The Premier League is not one of our long-standing cultural institutions. Football is one of our long-standing cultural institutions. And football will continue being played, and watched, whatever a bunch of transient millionaires employed by another bunch of transient millionaires do.
The more I think about this, the keener I am on it. It feels like an Augean Stables moment. I just wish it had happened back in the mid-noughties when the top six and the England team were almost entirely devoid likeability.
I agree that English football was hardly in the best of health prior to this, but the overall impact of this change in this country on viewership and engagement cannot be anything other than strongly negative.
I hope bookies open a market on whether a ball will be kicked in an ESL fixture in the next five years. I'd re-mortgage my house to pile on "no". All a negotiating ploy.
BREAKING: UK Digital Secretary Oliver Dowden has issued a Public Interest Intervention Notice on Nvidia's $40 billion takeover of Arm on national security grounds
I hope bookies open a market on whether a ball will be kicked in an ESL fixture in the next five years. I'd re-mortgage my house to pile on "no". All a negotiating ploy.
Indeed. Ain't going to happen.
There's a rough proxy for this, Leicester are shorter than Man U in the betting for the Prem.
I've got some bets on Liverpool and Chelsea not to finish Top 4 this season, but I must say it would seem fair to me that if 6 clubs were kicked out of the league midway through that all season-long bets were voided.
CNN: A mass vaccination center in the southern French city of Nice was forced to close early over the weekend after 58 people turned up for 4,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, a spokesman for the Alpes-Maritimes regional police told CNN.
Doses of the vaccine were offered to people aged over 55 who have jobs with a high Covid-19 risk such as teachers, police, prison guards, but the center was forced to close Saturday only hours after it opened.
I hope bookies open a market on whether a ball will be kicked in an ESL fixture in the next five years. I'd re-mortgage my house to pile on "no". All a negotiating ploy.
Indeed. Ain't going to happen.
Yet they have opened a book and they expect it to happen
4/7 SL starts by 2023
5/4 it doesn’t
I’m afraid you’re in denial. It is clear, now, this is no bluff. It is deadly serious, and disastrous for football across Europe. It’s a coup.
And the Germans hate it and will never join it, so it means football is split, perhaps irrevocably
Again, the nearest comparison is the rugby code split, which persists today - harmful as ever - after 120 years
Something called the Super League might happen, but this ain't it.
You were equally convinced by the European Vaccine Embargo, despite my telling you repeatedly that it wouldn't happen.
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
This is all unarguable, but what the clubs really want is people coming once or twice a season (preferably from abroad) and spending lots on food, merchandise, souvenirs and corporate entertainment. They have no real long-term interest in season ticket holders who turn up every other week and therefore expect to get a discount, while spending barely anything on extras.
If true this fucks FIFA and Qatar. Which is some solace
BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨
Why would it affect Qatar? I don't think the ESL will happen at all, but even those who think it will seem to be talking about 2023 launch, which would be after the next World Cup.
The international ban is real. That’s huge. Go to the Superleague and never play for your country. Never play in the World Cup
Big dilemma for very talented players. Lots will go to Bayern and PSG so they can still earn big money and still play for their countries. German football, in general, could benefit massively from this
If true this fucks FIFA and Qatar. Which is some solace
BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨
I hope bookies open a market on whether a ball will be kicked in an ESL fixture in the next five years. I'd re-mortgage my house to pile on "no". All a negotiating ploy.
Indeed. Ain't going to happen.
If no European Super League fixture is played by the end of 2022, the contract 'Not before 2023' will be settled as the winner.
If the European Super League is cancelled and no fixture has taken place by the end of 2022, the contract 'Not before 2023' will be settled as the winner.
CNN: A mass vaccination center in the southern French city of Nice was forced to close early over the weekend after 58 people turned up for 4,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, a spokesman for the Alpes-Maritimes regional police told CNN.
Doses of the vaccine were offered to people aged over 55 who have jobs with a high Covid-19 risk such as teachers, police, prison guards, but the center was forced to close Saturday only hours after it opened.
That's quite a small cohort. If you have lower demand like the USA does just open up to everyone.
BREAKING: UK Digital Secretary Oliver Dowden has issued a Public Interest Intervention Notice on Nvidia's $40 billion takeover of Arm on national security grounds
But this looks remarkably like short term greed rather than longer term. That is good for the quarterly reports and hence executive compensation, but bad for shareholders and fans alike.
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
The international ban is real. That’s huge. Go to the Superleague and never play for your country. Never play in the World Cup
Big dilemma for very talented players. Lots will go to Bayern and PSG so they can still earn big money and still play for their countries. German football, in general, could benefit massively from this
BREAKING: UK Digital Secretary Oliver Dowden has issued a Public Interest Intervention Notice on Nvidia's $40 billion takeover of Arm on national security grounds
If true this fucks FIFA and Qatar. Which is some solace
BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨
It’s Kerry Packer all over again.
Packer won in the end.
But that was in response to a genuine grievance. Top cricketers were earning no more than a dentist.
But this looks remarkably like short term greed rather than longer term. That is good for the quarterly reports and hence executive compensation, but bad for shareholders and fans alike.
Man Utd supporters trust CEO says he has not heard of anyone supporting the club who backs this , nor indeed from any other fans of other clubs
Asking for government intervention
This government says that greed is good.
Are you saying that this is the wrong type of greed?
In essence, yes.
I don't really like the word greed in this context. It is foolish to think of business without a financial motivation, which is what greed seems to be shorthand for here. But short-term financial motivations have in many instances destroyed value (the famous asset-strippers come to mind); and failure to align the longer-term interests of shareholders with the shorter-term financial interests of executives (the agency problem) because of mis-conceived remuneration packages has also done untold damage to corporations.
BREAKING: UK Digital Secretary Oliver Dowden has issued a Public Interest Intervention Notice on Nvidia's $40 billion takeover of Arm on national security grounds
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
BREAKING: UK Digital Secretary Oliver Dowden has issued a Public Interest Intervention Notice on Nvidia's $40 billion takeover of Arm on national security grounds
The international ban is real. That’s huge. Go to the Superleague and never play for your country. Never play in the World Cup
Big dilemma for very talented players. Lots will go to Bayern and PSG so they can still earn big money and still play for their countries. German football, in general, could benefit massively from this
Tony Greig waves from beyond the grave.
Different, as I say.
On this one - the football superleague - I'm frankly surprised to hear anything from you beyond, "Market. Business decision. Up to the clubs."
If true this fucks FIFA and Qatar. Which is some solace
BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨
It’s Kerry Packer all over again.
Packer won in the end.
But that was in response to a genuine grievance. Top cricketers were earning no more than a dentist.
Yes but Packer didn't win because he won a battle for public opinion, he won because the ACB were running out of money and sued for peace and sold out to Packer.
If the money goes with the Super League then UEFA, FIFA (and the Premier League if it unlikely goes that far) will end up sueing for peace to try to get a slice of their income back.
But this looks remarkably like short term greed rather than longer term. That is good for the quarterly reports and hence executive compensation, but bad for shareholders and fans alike.
Man Utd supporters trust CEO says he has not heard of anyone supporting the club who backs this , nor indeed from any other fans of other clubs
Asking for government intervention
This government says that greed is good.
Are you saying that this is the wrong type of greed?
In essence, yes.
I don't really like the word greed in this context. It is foolish to think of business without a financial motivation, which is what greed seems to be shorthand for here. But short-term financial motivations have in many instances destroyed value; and failure to align the longer-term interests of shareholders with the shorter-term financial interests of executives (the agency problem) because of mis-conceived remuneration packages has also done untold damage to corporations.
If you explicitly promote greed in your culture, you should not be surprised if things like this happen. Reap what you sow.
CNN: A mass vaccination center in the southern French city of Nice was forced to close early over the weekend after 58 people turned up for 4,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, a spokesman for the Alpes-Maritimes regional police told CNN.
Doses of the vaccine were offered to people aged over 55 who have jobs with a high Covid-19 risk such as teachers, police, prison guards, but the center was forced to close Saturday only hours after it opened.
55+ and only if you are in a high risk group (and surely if you are 55 in those groups you've hit retirement point anyway)
Are the French aware that the only fix for this is to vaccinate people?
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
But this looks remarkably like short term greed rather than longer term. That is good for the quarterly reports and hence executive compensation, but bad for shareholders and fans alike.
Man Utd supporters trust CEO says he has not heard of anyone supporting the club who backs this , nor indeed from any other fans of other clubs
Asking for government intervention
This government says that greed is good.
Are you saying that this is the wrong type of greed?
In essence, yes.
I don't really like the word greed in this context. It is foolish to think of business without a financial motivation, which is what greed seems to be shorthand for here. But short-term financial motivations have in many instances destroyed value; and failure to align the longer-term interests of shareholders with the shorter-term financial interests of executives (the agency problem) because of mis-conceived remuneration packages has also done untold damage to corporations.
If you explicitly promote greed in your culture, you should not be surprised if things like this happen. Reap what you sow.
I do not disagree with you. To a large extent, the multinational corporate model is morally and ethically bankrupt. But how do you propose to generate business and industry without a profit incentive?
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
This is all unarguable, but what the clubs really want is people coming once or twice a season (preferably from abroad) and spending lots on food, merchandise, souvenirs and corporate entertainment. They have no real long-term interest in season ticket holders who turn up every other week and therefore expect to get a discount, while spending barely anything on extras.
But the "fayns" provide the match atmosphere. I can't be alone in having lost all interest in watching football on tv during the pandemic.
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
The international ban is real. That’s huge. Go to the Superleague and never play for your country. Never play in the World Cup
Big dilemma for very talented players. Lots will go to Bayern and PSG so they can still earn big money and still play for their countries. German football, in general, could benefit massively from this
Tony Greig waves from beyond the grave.
Different, as I say.
On this one - the football superleague - I'm frankly surprised to hear anything from you beyond, "Market. Business decision. Up to the clubs."
I'm a sports fan, of course I care about the integrity of sport.
But I'm also a realist so I expect money to settle it commercially.
Probably eventually with a compromise where a Super League exists but qualification is determined on the field and not reserved for fixed clubs. Especially give that UEFA have already come up with the ludicrous Coefficient entry idea anyway which already advantages the big clubs keeping their spot. 🤦♂️
Now its essentially haggling over who controls the purse strings.
Like many on here and beyond - football has been of little interest since I was a kid who used to go every week among 40+ thousand others to Roker park. However, I have to acknowledge it's removed all other news from the airwaves.
Like many on here and beyond - football has been of little interest since I was a kid who used to go every week among 40+ thousand others to Roker park. However, I have to acknowledge it's removed all other news from the airwaves.
But this looks remarkably like short term greed rather than longer term. That is good for the quarterly reports and hence executive compensation, but bad for shareholders and fans alike.
Man Utd supporters trust CEO says he has not heard of anyone supporting the club who backs this , nor indeed from any other fans of other clubs
Asking for government intervention
This government says that greed is good.
Are you saying that this is the wrong type of greed?
In essence, yes.
I don't really like the word greed in this context. It is foolish to think of business without a financial motivation, which is what greed seems to be shorthand for here. But short-term financial motivations have in many instances destroyed value; and failure to align the longer-term interests of shareholders with the shorter-term financial interests of executives (the agency problem) because of mis-conceived remuneration packages has also done untold damage to corporations.
If you explicitly promote greed in your culture, you should not be surprised if things like this happen. Reap what you sow.
I do not disagree with you. To a large extent, the multinational corporate model is morally and ethically bankrupt. But how do you propose to generate business and industry without a profit incentive?
Motivation from generating value in your work and a fair reward from an honest days work, both completely compatible with profitable business, but without greed.
The international ban is real. That’s huge. Go to the Superleague and never play for your country. Never play in the World Cup
Big dilemma for very talented players. Lots will go to Bayern and PSG so they can still earn big money and still play for their countries. German football, in general, could benefit massively from this
Wouldn't the international teams from the players of the super league sides beat most of the international teams from the leftover players?
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
I think most of us agree on that (I certainly do). The question is whether the value to this country in increasing revenue from those places, at the cost of doing probably unfixable damage to one of our long-standing cultural institutions, is a worthwhile trade-off.
If you like, feel free to rewrite my previous sentence such that it's not immediately obvious what the answer should be.
The Premier League is not one of our long-standing cultural institutions. Football is one of our long-standing cultural institutions. And football will continue being played, and watched, whatever a bunch of transient millionaires employed by another bunch of transient millionaires do.
The more I think about this, the keener I am on it. It feels like an Augean Stables moment. I just wish it had happened back in the mid-noughties when the top six and the England team were almost entirely devoid likeability.
It will do nothing to end the real problems in the high levels of football and will just send more of the lower clubs to the wall. It fucks football not saves it.
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
This is all unarguable, but what the clubs really want is people coming once or twice a season (preferably from abroad) and spending lots on food, merchandise, souvenirs and corporate entertainment. They have no real long-term interest in season ticket holders who turn up every other week and therefore expect to get a discount, while spending barely anything on extras.
But the "fayns" provide the match atmosphere. I can't be alone in having lost all interest in watching football on tv during the pandemic.
You can generate atmosphere for TV quite happily with a few mics in a small area of the ground with say 2-5k actual fans. Certainly no need for tens of thousands of them.
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
The international ban is real. That’s huge. Go to the Superleague and never play for your country. Never play in the World Cup
Big dilemma for very talented players. Lots will go to Bayern and PSG so they can still earn big money and still play for their countries. German football, in general, could benefit massively from this
Wouldn't the international teams from the players of the super league sides beat most of the international teams from the leftover players?
Perhaps they'll put on their own world cup.
Didn’t England make noises about that a few years ago?
BREAKING: UK Digital Secretary Oliver Dowden has issued a Public Interest Intervention Notice on Nvidia's $40 billion takeover of Arm on national security grounds
The two stories are linked. These ain’t Maggie’s Tories. Sir Austin Chamberlain would be proud.
Thatcher certainly intervened in the market place. Interventions can be useful when used rarely, as its rarely that the Government knows better than the owners.
The international ban is real. That’s huge. Go to the Superleague and never play for your country. Never play in the World Cup
Big dilemma for very talented players. Lots will go to Bayern and PSG so they can still earn big money and still play for their countries. German football, in general, could benefit massively from this
Wouldn't the international teams from the players of the super league sides beat most of the international teams from the leftover players?
Perhaps they'll put on their own world cup.
The strongest club sides have been stronger than national sides for a long time.
The international ban is real. That’s huge. Go to the Superleague and never play for your country. Never play in the World Cup
Big dilemma for very talented players. Lots will go to Bayern and PSG so they can still earn big money and still play for their countries. German football, in general, could benefit massively from this
Wouldn't the international teams from the players of the super league sides beat most of the international teams from the leftover players?
Perhaps they'll put on their own world cup.
You might think. But, there would probably be few countries which could raise a full side.
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
This is all unarguable, but what the clubs really want is people coming once or twice a season (preferably from abroad) and spending lots on food, merchandise, souvenirs and corporate entertainment. They have no real long-term interest in season ticket holders who turn up every other week and therefore expect to get a discount, while spending barely anything on extras.
But the "fayns" provide the match atmosphere. I can't be alone in having lost all interest in watching football on tv during the pandemic.
Exactly. I think you have to be someone that regularly watches sport live to really understand your point though. It’s the chants, and the noises. The small laughs. The ironic cheers.
The international ban is real. That’s huge. Go to the Superleague and never play for your country. Never play in the World Cup
Big dilemma for very talented players. Lots will go to Bayern and PSG so they can still earn big money and still play for their countries. German football, in general, could benefit massively from this
Wouldn't the international teams from the players of the super league sides beat most of the international teams from the leftover players?
Perhaps they'll put on their own world cup.
The strongest club sides have been stronger than national sides for a long time.
I don't think that is what LP was saying, though. I think he meant if you made up and England side from the English players in the SL it would be stronger than the England side from the national competitions team
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
This is all unarguable, but what the clubs really want is people coming once or twice a season (preferably from abroad) and spending lots on food, merchandise, souvenirs and corporate entertainment. They have no real long-term interest in season ticket holders who turn up every other week and therefore expect to get a discount, while spending barely anything on extras.
But the "fayns" provide the match atmosphere. I can't be alone in having lost all interest in watching football on tv during the pandemic.
You can generate atmosphere for TV quite happily with a few mics in a small area of the ground with say 2-5k actual fans. Certainly no need for tens of thousands of them.
No, you really can’t. A large crowd has a different personality.
Looks like Sir Keir stopping by has energised the local business owners of Bath. Tweet earlier in the thread shows the guy heckling seems to be an anti-lockdown pub owner.
CNN: A mass vaccination center in the southern French city of Nice was forced to close early over the weekend after 58 people turned up for 4,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, a spokesman for the Alpes-Maritimes regional police told CNN.
Doses of the vaccine were offered to people aged over 55 who have jobs with a high Covid-19 risk such as teachers, police, prison guards, but the center was forced to close Saturday only hours after it opened.
55+ and only if you are in a high risk group (and surely if you are 55 in those groups you've hit retirement point anyway)
Are the French aware that the only fix for this is to vaccinate people?
It's a demonstration of the road that the UK chose not to go down - lots of "special groups" and holding to perfectly targeting those groups.
Get the vaccine into *someone* - older is better, but perfect is the enemy of good enough.
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
This is all unarguable, but what the clubs really want is people coming once or twice a season (preferably from abroad) and spending lots on food, merchandise, souvenirs and corporate entertainment. They have no real long-term interest in season ticket holders who turn up every other week and therefore expect to get a discount, while spending barely anything on extras.
But the "fayns" provide the match atmosphere. I can't be alone in having lost all interest in watching football on tv during the pandemic.
You can generate atmosphere for TV quite happily with a few mics in a small area of the ground with say 2-5k actual fans. Certainly no need for tens of thousands of them.
No, you really can’t. A large crowd has a different personality.
Yep. The 'generated' large crowds in US professional sports during COVID just sound so completely fake as to be laughable.
Julian Nagelsmann has already revealed his Premier League dream amid Jose Mourinho sack talk
Julian Nagelsmann has established himself as one of the most highly-coveted managers in world football and reportedly has admirers at Tottenham Hotspur
The international ban is real. That’s huge. Go to the Superleague and never play for your country. Never play in the World Cup
Big dilemma for very talented players. Lots will go to Bayern and PSG so they can still earn big money and still play for their countries. German football, in general, could benefit massively from this
Wouldn't the international teams from the players of the super league sides beat most of the international teams from the leftover players?
Perhaps they'll put on their own world cup.
The strongest club sides have been stronger than national sides for a long time.
I don't think that is what LP was saying, though. I think he meant if you made up and England side from the English players in the SL it would be stronger than the England side from the national competitions team
For England perhaps. Maybe for Spain and Italy too. Belgium certainly. Right now though with Just these clubs involved probably no one else. Argentina might not raise a side. Portugal and Germany too.
If true this fucks FIFA and Qatar. Which is some solace
BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨
Isn't that more likely to hit the superleague than the world cup?
Guys like Jordan Pickford are surely going to prioritize the chance of hoisting the Jules Rimet and joining the "66" legends over trotting out for routine league games, regardless of whether "super" is stuck in front of it.
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
This is all unarguable, but what the clubs really want is people coming once or twice a season (preferably from abroad) and spending lots on food, merchandise, souvenirs and corporate entertainment. They have no real long-term interest in season ticket holders who turn up every other week and therefore expect to get a discount, while spending barely anything on extras.
But the "fayns" provide the match atmosphere. I can't be alone in having lost all interest in watching football on tv during the pandemic.
You can generate atmosphere for TV quite happily with a few mics in a small area of the ground with say 2-5k actual fans. Certainly no need for tens of thousands of them.
No, you really can’t. A large crowd has a different personality.
Which is only apparent if you're in it. It's impossible to tell that from watching TV on a sofa, and the Asian market certainly won't care.
Like many on here and beyond - football has been of little interest since I was a kid who used to go every week among 40+ thousand others to Roker park. However, I have to acknowledge it's removed all other news from the airwaves.
CNN: A mass vaccination center in the southern French city of Nice was forced to close early over the weekend after 58 people turned up for 4,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, a spokesman for the Alpes-Maritimes regional police told CNN.
Doses of the vaccine were offered to people aged over 55 who have jobs with a high Covid-19 risk such as teachers, police, prison guards, but the center was forced to close Saturday only hours after it opened.
55+ and only if you are in a high risk group (and surely if you are 55 in those groups you've hit retirement point anyway)
Are the French aware that the only fix for this is to vaccinate people?
It's a demonstration of the road that the UK chose not to go down - lots of "special groups" and holding to perfectly targeting those groups.
Get the vaccine into *someone* - older is better, but perfect is the enemy of good enough.
You gotta love CNN:
"Germany’s vaccine rollout is intensifying, with more doses arriving in the country.
The nation's Ministry of Health said 559,967 doses were administered last Friday up from 664,270 on Thursday."
If true this fucks FIFA and Qatar. Which is some solace
BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨
Isn't that more likely to hit the superleague than the world cup?
Guys like Jordan Pickford are surely going to prioritize the chance of hoisting the Jules Rimet and joining the "66" legends over trotting out for routine league games, regardless of whether "super" is stuck in front of it.
On the other hand, Gareth Bale could presumably care less.
Like many on here and beyond - football has been of little interest since I was a kid who used to go every week among 40+ thousand others to Roker park. However, I have to acknowledge it's removed all other news from the airwaves.
My condolences for your terrible upbringing.
Born a mackem and die a mackem!
Commiserations - at least as a Sanddancer I (just about) got a choice of teams...
If true this fucks FIFA and Qatar. Which is some solace
BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨
Isn't that more likely to hit the superleague than the world cup?
Guys like Jordan Pickford are surely going to prioritize the chance of hoisting the Jules Rimet and joining the "66" legends over trotting out for routine league games, regardless of whether "super" is stuck in front of it.
CNN: A mass vaccination center in the southern French city of Nice was forced to close early over the weekend after 58 people turned up for 4,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, a spokesman for the Alpes-Maritimes regional police told CNN.
Doses of the vaccine were offered to people aged over 55 who have jobs with a high Covid-19 risk such as teachers, police, prison guards, but the center was forced to close Saturday only hours after it opened.
55+ and only if you are in a high risk group (and surely if you are 55 in those groups you've hit retirement point anyway)
Are the French aware that the only fix for this is to vaccinate people?
It's a demonstration of the road that the UK chose not to go down - lots of "special groups" and holding to perfectly targeting those groups.
Get the vaccine into *someone* - older is better, but perfect is the enemy of good enough.
You gotta love CNN:
"Germany’s vaccine rollout is intensifying, with more doses arriving in the country.
The nation's Ministry of Health said 559,967 doses were administered last Friday up from 664,270 on Thursday."
Did Sunil get a job with CNN after his famous bar charts?
CNN: A mass vaccination center in the southern French city of Nice was forced to close early over the weekend after 58 people turned up for 4,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, a spokesman for the Alpes-Maritimes regional police told CNN.
Doses of the vaccine were offered to people aged over 55 who have jobs with a high Covid-19 risk such as teachers, police, prison guards, but the center was forced to close Saturday only hours after it opened.
55+ and only if you are in a high risk group (and surely if you are 55 in those groups you've hit retirement point anyway)
Are the French aware that the only fix for this is to vaccinate people?
It's a demonstration of the road that the UK chose not to go down - lots of "special groups" and holding to perfectly targeting those groups.
Get the vaccine into *someone* - older is better, but perfect is the enemy of good enough.
You gotta love CNN:
"Germany’s vaccine rollout is intensifying, with more doses arriving in the country.
The nation's Ministry of Health said 559,967 doses were administered last Friday up from 664,270 on Thursday."
They must have verified the increase with the Ministry of Truth.
BREAKING: UK Digital Secretary Oliver Dowden has issued a Public Interest Intervention Notice on Nvidia's $40 billion takeover of Arm on national security grounds
The two stories are linked. These ain’t Maggie’s Tories. Sir Austin Chamberlain would be proud.
Puzzled about the talk about taking Covid money away on the Graun feed: PM spokesperson: 'Asked if the government would try to recover Covid support given to clubs participating in the super league scheme, the spokesman said: “Again, another suggestion put forward. We want to look at everything possible, we’re not ruling anything in or out, we want to look at the options"'
CNN: A mass vaccination center in the southern French city of Nice was forced to close early over the weekend after 58 people turned up for 4,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, a spokesman for the Alpes-Maritimes regional police told CNN.
Doses of the vaccine were offered to people aged over 55 who have jobs with a high Covid-19 risk such as teachers, police, prison guards, but the center was forced to close Saturday only hours after it opened.
55+ and only if you are in a high risk group (and surely if you are 55 in those groups you've hit retirement point anyway)
Are the French aware that the only fix for this is to vaccinate people?
It's a demonstration of the road that the UK chose not to go down - lots of "special groups" and holding to perfectly targeting those groups.
Get the vaccine into *someone* - older is better, but perfect is the enemy of good enough.
You gotta love CNN:
"Germany’s vaccine rollout is intensifying, with more doses arriving in the country.
The nation's Ministry of Health said 559,967 doses were administered last Friday up from 664,270 on Thursday."
Quote from the "Tailwind" saga at CNN
"Don't fuck* the story."
*In media speak, this apparently mean't "Don't ruin a story by looking too hard and finding out it isn't true."
BREAKING: UK Digital Secretary Oliver Dowden has issued a Public Interest Intervention Notice on Nvidia's $40 billion takeover of Arm on national security grounds
The two stories are linked. These ain’t Maggie’s Tories. Sir Austin Chamberlain would be proud.
Puzzled about the talk about taking Covid money away on the Graun feed: PM spokesperson: 'Asked if the government would try to recover Covid support given to clubs participating in the super league scheme, the spokesman said: “Again, another suggestion put forward. We want to look at everything possible, we’re not ruling anything in or out, we want to look at the options"'
Surely that's retrospective and unfair?
Depends what representations were made and strings attached at the time the money was given/taken.
Looks like Sir Keir stopping by has energised the local business owners of Bath. Tweet earlier in the thread shows the guy heckling seems to be an anti-lockdown pub owner.
BREAKING: UK Digital Secretary Oliver Dowden has issued a Public Interest Intervention Notice on Nvidia's $40 billion takeover of Arm on national security grounds
The two stories are linked. These ain’t Maggie’s Tories. Sir Austin Chamberlain would be proud.
Puzzled about the talk about taking Covid money away on the Graun feed: PM spokesperson: 'Asked if the government would try to recover Covid support given to clubs participating in the super league scheme, the spokesman said: “Again, another suggestion put forward. We want to look at everything possible, we’re not ruling anything in or out, we want to look at the options"'
Surely that's retrospective and unfair?
Depends what representations were made and strings attached at the time the money was given/taken.
But could those remotely concern such a proposal a year ago?
Looks like Sir Keir stopping by has energised the local business owners of Bath. Tweet earlier in the thread shows the guy heckling seems to be an anti-lockdown pub owner.
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
This is all unarguable, but what the clubs really want is people coming once or twice a season (preferably from abroad) and spending lots on food, merchandise, souvenirs and corporate entertainment. They have no real long-term interest in season ticket holders who turn up every other week and therefore expect to get a discount, while spending barely anything on extras.
But the "fayns" provide the match atmosphere. I can't be alone in having lost all interest in watching football on tv during the pandemic.
You can generate atmosphere for TV quite happily with a few mics in a small area of the ground with say 2-5k actual fans. Certainly no need for tens of thousands of them.
No, you really can’t. A large crowd has a different personality.
Julian Nagelsmann has already revealed his Premier League dream amid Jose Mourinho sack talk
Julian Nagelsmann has established himself as one of the most highly-coveted managers in world football and reportedly has admirers at Tottenham Hotspur
Football clubs are businesses. They make decisions that they think are in their best financial interests. This should not surprise anyone. The big difference with football clubs is that their customers are fans who they can count on to support them come what may and the money will keep rolling in.
The #1 way for this to be stopped is by fans, not governments. If fans stopped buying merchandise, stopped watching their social media, stopped paying for anything where money goes to the club then they would change their course. It really is quite simple.
The problem is of course most people can't really see this and will still hand over £70+ for a club crest on a £5 shirt. The same amount of money would get them multiple entries at their local non-league team who desperately need the money right now.
Again depends what you mean by fans.
Fans in Lagos, New Delhi, Kuala Lumpur and Riyadh?
They don't give a monkeys.
And that is where the growth is.
Not Liverpool. Not Manchester.
You don't understood modern football clubs.
Plenty of these clubs are reliant on match day income, ie match going fans, Arsenal for example rely on it for 25% of their total income.
Matchday revenue is a huge loss for all clubs with fans. Only the oil clubs like Citeh and the chavs can survive without matchday revenue.
It might have something to do with the bargaining position. The likes of Tottenham have lost silly amounts of revenue from the turnstiles this season.
I suspect one of the key criteria for a deal will be a categoric guarantee that stadia won't be forcibly shuttered again. Like many other businesses, they cannot afford it.
Looks like Sir Keir stopping by has energised the local business owners of Bath. Tweet earlier in the thread shows the guy heckling seems to be an anti-lockdown pub owner.
Looks like Sir Keir stopping by has energised the local business owners of Bath. Tweet earlier in the thread shows the guy heckling seems to be an anti-lockdown pub owner.
Comments
Paris and..... Marseilles?
Lille currently lead the Uber Eats Ligue 1.
Short run, they will lose a lot of the sense of place and history which, as Leon says, is an important part of the worldwide appeal.
They might, for a while, still have enough brand value to keep flogging shirts and so on. But they would struggle to attract the best players at the peak of their career. Kids still grow up dreaming of the Premier League (or La Liga or whatever), the Champions League, playing for their country. If these teams and players are excluded from that, they will become retirement homes for fading stars at the fag end of their careers, like the US, Japanese, and Chinese leagues. In the longer term, that kills the brand. They become historical relics, while the big stars build the brands outside the ESL - whether that's Bayern Munich, Ajax, and PSG; English teams like Everton, Aston Villa, and Leeds; or in a few years reborn clubs like "FC Liverpool" or "Arsenal '21".
I think the big clubs know that, and it's all a negotiating ploy for a bigger slice of pie. Just doesn't make sense as a genuine plan.
"We have not embarked on the business of taking back control from the Eurocrats on the continent only to see a European superleague getting ready to exercise a new dominance over our beloved national game. No, I say. It's not happening. Not if your very own Boris and this People's government have anything to do with it."
"@AlbertBourla
Pleased to announce that we will supply the @EU_Commission with 100M additional doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech #COVID19 vaccine this year, bringing the total number of doses to be delivered to the EU to 600M: https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-supply-european-union-100-million-0 (2/2)"
Football is one of our long-standing cultural institutions. And football will continue being played, and watched, whatever a bunch of transient millionaires employed by another bunch of transient millionaires do.
The more I think about this, the keener I am on it. It feels like an Augean Stables moment. I just wish it had happened back in the mid-noughties when the top six and the England team were almost entirely devoid likeability.
4/7 SL starts by 2023
5/4 it doesn’t
I’m afraid you’re in denial. It is clear, now, this is no bluff. It is deadly serious, and disastrous for football across Europe. It’s a coup.
And the Germans hate it and will never join it, so it means football is split, perhaps irrevocably
Again, the nearest comparison is the rugby code split, which persists today - harmful as ever - after 120 years
*JPMORGAN BETS $4.8B ON #SUPERLEAGUE AS CLUBS SIGN BINDING DEAL - BBG"
https://twitter.com/C_Barraud/status/1384122900064587779
British cricket needed that revenue.
Attlee also helped in getting football restarted after WWII, as they moved on from the wartime league.
He wanted a return to a normal Britain ASAP.
Chamberlain and Churchill OK'd the War Cup
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_League_War_Cup
We are though going to be allowed to volunteer "at our own risk" to have one of the AZ doses that otherwise will be chucked - BUT they are going to delay this so long that in the SSIs own words - the point of it will be lost by the time it happens.
Hopefully other EU countries aren't being as risk averse as Denmark which in most respects is waaaaaaay less risk averse than the UK.
BREAKING: All players that play in the European Super League will be banned from playing in the Euros and World Cup. They won’t be able to play for their National Teams, confirmed by UEFA President Ceferin. #ESL 🚫🚨
BREAKING: UK Digital Secretary Oliver Dowden has issued a Public Interest Intervention Notice on Nvidia's $40 billion takeover of Arm on national security grounds
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/proposed-acquisition-of-arm-limited-by-nvidia-corporation-public-interest-intervention
If you relocated Manchester United to Dubai (heaven forfend etc) there would still be very extensive matchday revenue. Indeed, somewhere like Dubai is jam packed with people with money to burn but not enough to spend it on.
A bit of an issue for non-London clubs at present is that some cities where English teams are located aren't great for matchday revenue as presumably a fair slice of that is corporate (an easier sell in London than Newcastle) and local fan income also tends to be lower.
https://smarkets.com/event/42181401/current-affairs/european-super-league/year-of-first-european-super-league-match
Doses of the vaccine were offered to people aged over 55 who have jobs with a high Covid-19 risk such as teachers, police, prison guards, but the center was forced to close Saturday only hours after it opened.
You were equally convinced by the European Vaccine Embargo, despite my telling you repeatedly that it wouldn't happen.
You should learn to keep calm and listen to me.
TV fans massively subsidise live fans, surely?
Big dilemma for very talented players. Lots will go to Bayern and PSG so they can still earn big money and still play for their countries. German football, in general, could benefit massively from this
I don't really like the word greed in this context. It is foolish to think of business without a financial motivation, which is what greed seems to be shorthand for here. But short-term financial motivations have in many instances destroyed value (the famous asset-strippers come to mind); and failure to align the longer-term interests of shareholders with the shorter-term financial interests of executives (the agency problem) because of mis-conceived remuneration packages has also done untold damage to corporations.
On this one - the football superleague - I'm frankly surprised to hear anything from you beyond, "Market. Business decision. Up to the clubs."
If the money goes with the Super League then UEFA, FIFA (and the Premier League if it unlikely goes that far) will end up sueing for peace to try to get a slice of their income back.
Are the French aware that the only fix for this is to vaccinate people?
But I'm also a realist so I expect money to settle it commercially.
Probably eventually with a compromise where a Super League exists but qualification is determined on the field and not reserved for fixed clubs. Especially give that UEFA have already come up with the ludicrous Coefficient entry idea anyway which already advantages the big clubs keeping their spot. 🤦♂️
Now its essentially haggling over who controls the purse strings.
The PL know what butters their bread.
UEFA have no choice but to go big. The PL have no choice but to keep their heads down.
Perhaps they'll put on their own world cup.
Spurs, Liverpool, United, Arsenal, and others are set to post £100 million plus losses for this season and the last.
https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/01/liverpool-rise-to-top-5-in-revenue-charts-despite-major-financial-blow-of-empty-anfield/
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-financial-blow-impact-coronavirus-23295783
Stamer Heckled in Bath..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UycKJy7hAJk&t=7s
Always tricky when a member of the public goes nutso, but telling him he isn't going to be "lectured by you", not sure is a good response.
https://twitter.com/StephenSumner15/status/1384120124492304390
Get the vaccine into *someone* - older is better, but perfect is the enemy of good enough.
The Speccie have some cracking footage of Starmer being berated by a irate publican in Bath.
THAT MAN IS NOT ALLOWED IN MY PUB
Julian Nagelsmann will be Tottenham's top target if Jose Mourinho fails to arrest decline
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/02/22/julian-nagelsmann-will-tottenhams-top-target-jose-mourinho-fails/
Julian Nagelsmann has already revealed his Premier League dream amid Jose Mourinho sack talk
Julian Nagelsmann has established himself as one of the most highly-coveted managers in world football and reportedly has admirers at Tottenham Hotspur
https://www.football.london/tottenham-hotspur-fc/news/julian-nagelsmann-jose-mourinho-sack-19851397
It is clear that Levy sacked him before he might win a trophy.
Right now though with Just these clubs involved probably no one else.
Argentina might not raise a side. Portugal and Germany too.
Guys like Jordan Pickford are surely going to prioritize the chance of hoisting the Jules Rimet and joining the "66" legends over trotting out for routine league games, regardless of whether "super" is stuck in front of it.
"Germany’s vaccine rollout is intensifying, with more doses arriving in the country.
The nation's Ministry of Health said 559,967 doses were administered last Friday up from 664,270 on Thursday."
https://twitter.com/StephenSumner15/status/1384118300154634251
"Sir Keith says he intends to hold Boris Johnson to account at PMQs" 😂
https://twitter.com/StephenSumner15/status/1384123119946780679
United Nations says UK racism report is 'reprehensible' and 'normalises white supremacy' by 'repackaging racist tropes and stereotypes into fact'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9486255/Racism-report-United-Nations-says-UK-report-reprehensible-normalises-white-supremacy.html
'Asked if the government would try to recover Covid support given to clubs participating in the super league scheme, the spokesman said: “Again, another suggestion put forward. We want to look at everything possible, we’re not ruling anything in or out, we want to look at the options"'
Surely that's retrospective and unfair?
"Don't fuck* the story."
*In media speak, this apparently mean't "Don't ruin a story by looking too hard and finding out it isn't true."
I suspect one of the key criteria for a deal will be a categoric guarantee that stadia won't be forcibly shuttered again. Like many other businesses, they cannot afford it.