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This is going to dominate the news for the next few days and a good politician will be able to explo

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  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814

    This does not surprise me at all

    Those creating the new Super League have billions behind them and will not have launched this without investing in expert legal advice and must be confident that this is going to come to pass

    It is extraordinary that this is happening now with Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs, struggling to qualify for the Champions League this year and they represent half of the English clubs involved.

    LostPassword has cracked it I think. You need clubs with a brand, a following and good organisation. Current success doesn't matter. You can then port them wherever you want. Arsenal have a non-place specific name. Chelsea have a small stadium they can't redevelop. Does Milan need two teams in this league? Does Manchester?
  • One thing this will have done is create doubt and division amongst players in these clubs, those who are not including PSG and Bayern players, and turned the transfer market on its head
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,375

    ((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    6m
    Liverpool FC: "We are committed to working with all stakeholders, particularly supporters, as plans for the competition develop". No you're not. You don't give a toss. So stop pretending.

    On one hand, DPJH is obviously right- has to happen sometimes, I guess.

    However, elite professional football hasn't really given a toss about local, going to the ground regularly supporters for ages. Because that's not where the money is any more. And most fans will put up with all sorts of nonsense if it brings in oodles of cash to try to buy glory; look (or rather, don't) at the owners of Portsmouth over the years.

    The trouble with this plan is that it's rubbing people's faces in it. In particular, that the paying customers in China are maybe more significant than the ones in Chelsea.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,177
    So I’ve woken up and I’m still so f*cking angry about this.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814
    I wonder if Beckham's outfit will get in on this too in some way?
  • tlg86 said:

    You’re in favour of this, aren’t you?

    I can tell when you start trotting out stupid arguments like this.
    No, a closed shop, or an overwhelming closed shop will atrophy and this European Super League will eventually become a glorified version of the Scottish Premier League.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,741
    moonshine said:

    This does not surprise me at all

    Those creating the new Super League have billions behind them and will not have launched this without investing in expert legal advice and must be confident that this is going to come to pass

    It is extraordinary that this is happening now with Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs, struggling to qualify for the Champions League this year and they represent half of the English clubs involved.
    LostPassword has cracked it I think. You need clubs with a brand, a following and good organisation. Current success doesn't matter. You can then port them wherever you want. Arsenal have a non-place specific name. Chelsea have a small stadium they can't redevelop. Does Milan need two teams in this league? Does Manchester?

    Yes because Manchester City is the City franchise around the world (https://www.cityfootballgroup.com/)

    And Manchester United is United.

    Nowhere else do you have 2 teams with such name recognition
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100
    It’s weird to see Tories upset about the consequences of capitalism. One dollar one vote, not one person one vote.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,012
    Greed is the word. Nothing more nothing less. Any pretension that they give a monkeys about the supporters is laid bare. They can still make loads with betting on games even if there us noone watching at the ground.

    If it wasn't for Rugby league and with cricket rights looking dodgy, I would give up my sky subscription.
  • moonshine said:

    I wonder if Beckham's outfit will get in on this too in some way?

    Not if Internazionale Milano have their way.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/18/sports/soccer/inter-milan-inter-miami.html
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,860
    moonshine said:

    I wonder if Beckham's outfit will get in on this too in some way?

    Sponsored sarongs?
  • The Super League will require upto 38 matches played mid week throughout the season so none of these clubs will play in the FA Cup, League Cup, and of course any remaining European competitions
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100

    Greed is the word. Nothing more nothing less. Any pretension that they give a monkeys about the supporters is laid bare. They can still make loads with betting on games even if there us noone watching at the ground.

    If it wasn't for Rugby league and with cricket rights looking dodgy, I would give up my sky subscription.

    The prime minister was heralded here a few days ago saying that greed is good. Is that no longer the case?
  • Greed is the word. Nothing more nothing less. Any pretension that they give a monkeys about the supporters is laid bare. They can still make loads with betting on games even if there us noone watching at the ground.

    If it wasn't for Rugby league and with cricket rights looking dodgy, I would give up my sky subscription.

    You mean you follow a sport that went rogue and broke away and turned from a winter sport to a summer sport for money?

    Cannot get more greedy than that.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,741

    The Super League will require upto 38 matches played mid week throughout the season so none of these clubs will play in the FA Cup, League Cup, and of course any remaining European competitions

    We don't know that yet - and it's highly unlikely that the English teams would want to play themselves 4 times a season.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,375
    Jonathan said:

    It’s weird to see Tories upset about the consequences of capitalism. One dollar one vote, not one person one vote.

    It does highlight the tension in this iteration of the Conservative Party. Maggie would have been all for this; entrepreneurs shaking up a corrupt network of blazers to make a fortune on the global stage.

    And what is government intervention meant to achieve?
  • eekeek Posts: 29,741
    Regarding PSG

    @Chasportch It's pretty likely that the only reason that PSG aren't attached to it right now is that they're worries about Qatar losing the World Cup as a consequence.

    @garius Well, that and being the only big club left in the Champions League might actually mean they finally win it.
    Quote Tweet
  • eek said:

    We don't know that yet - and it's highly unlikely that the English teams would want to play themselves 4 times a season.
    The Super League is to comprise 15 founding clubs plus 5 clubs qualifying annually with details of qualification to be announced

    The league will be divided into 2 sections of 10 teams with the top four in each divisions playing knock out to the final, all happening mid week

    It is expected Bayern, Borussia Dortmund and PSG will join as founding clubs making the 15 founding members
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814

    It does highlight the tension in this iteration of the Conservative Party. Maggie would have been all for this; entrepreneurs shaking up a corrupt network of blazers to make a fortune on the global stage.

    And what is government intervention meant to achieve?
    It's irritating when people think being right leaning means you don't believe there's a role for government in correcting the failings and abuses of the free market. This is an abuse of the market by creating a cartel.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,538

    It does highlight the tension in this iteration of the Conservative Party. Maggie would have been all for this; entrepreneurs shaking up a corrupt network of blazers to make a fortune on the global stage.

    And what is government intervention meant to achieve?
    I doubt Mrs T would have had much of an opinion either way.

    Personally I don’t think the government should get involved. The leagues and UEFA should chuck them out right now.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    .

    Like this?

    https://www.justice.gov/nsd-fara
    The point would be that any unregistered foreign agents would be looking at life imprisonment if caught by our own agencies, rather than simply a free flight back home.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,339

    Telling lobbyists "no, we won't give your project any money" is now worse than endemic corruption in public works is it? No wonder Labour is losing the voters.....
    But that isn't the story is it? Although we agree on half of it.

    Labour corruption in local authorities run by those wearing a red rosettes in safe Labour areas (not a worry these days) has been endemic, post war. The rebuilding of war ravaged towns and cities in the 1960s and 1970s was possibly the point of peak corruption. This criminality should be (and was) punished and the guilty thrown in jail.

    From someone on the opposite side of the political divide to yourself (although I am without a political party) I, like you would find narratives like Len, with his grace and favour lifestyle feeding scraps to the Labour Party to call his tune, troublesome too.

    When it comes to the bad smell emanating from the Labour Party it seems we agree.

    However, is it really so true that all is spick and span in the house of Boris, move along, nothing to see, have you heard about the European Super League?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Big decision for Norwich.

    Do we stay in the PL and settle in to 14th?

    Or do we join the Super League. Can't be relegated if there is no relegation.
  • tlg86 said:

    I doubt Mrs T would have had much of an opinion either way.

    Personally I don’t think the government should get involved. The leagues and UEFA should chuck them out right now.
    Problem with that is that Sky and BT investments would be seriously undermined and litigation would be on the way as a response
  • The Super League is to comprise 15 founding clubs plus 5 clubs qualifying annually with details of qualification to be announced

    The league will be divided into 2 sections of 10 teams with the top four in each divisions playing knock out to the final, all happening mid week

    It is expected Bayern, Borussia Dortmund and PSG will join as founding clubs making the 15 founding members
    2 sections of ten teams means only 18 mid week slots for the league part, and 6 for the knock out slots.

    38 is a fiction in your head.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,280
    Sandpit said:

    The point would be that any unregistered foreign agents would be looking at life imprisonment if caught by our own agencies, rather than simply a free flight back home.
    And how would the governments of said agents deal with our agents abroad?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,177
    If the big 6 get stripped of their titles, Alan Pardew becomes a Premier League winning manager. :D

    *troll face*
  • 2 sections of ten teams means only 18 mid week slots for the league part, and 6 for the knock out slots.

    38 is a fiction in your head.
    I said upto 38 and have qualified it with the detail

    There is no need to be so personal
  • Anyone would think there were elections coming up.....
    They have a point, and Hoyle isn't just going to dismiss this as he has repeatedly pulled up the PM. No likelihood of this happening pre-elections, but it should happen. Johnson is a serial liar who endlessly talks so much bollocks at the dispatch box that the speaker has to tell him to stop. Tories thought that removing Bercow would stop the "attacks" on the PM - wrong.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Bloody hell! Hurrah!

    Some in the party are actually waking up.

    As I've said here more than once, don't obsess about the top 10% and bottom 10%, appeal to the 80% in the middle. People who aren't fussed about the bedroom tax. Or use food banks. Or what term might replace BAMER. Or Palestine. But they want a good school for their kids, a quality NHS they can rely on in times of need, feel safe in their own homes and communities and be confident that if they play by the rules the system will treat them fairly.

    Those are the Tories targetted voters.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,487
    F1: apparently, Miami's actually going ahead next year:

    https://twitter.com/F1/status/1383884679145607168

    The circuit I saw a year or two ago suggested it'd be another identikit snoozathon street circuit.
  • I said upto 38 and have qualified it with the detail

    There is no need to be so personal
    You said none of them would play in the FA Cup or League Cup, which is untrue.
  • Big decision for Norwich.

    Do we stay in the PL and settle in to 14th?

    Or do we join the Super League. Can't be relegated if there is no relegation.

    Stay out as it means facing Luis Suarez on a regular basis.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,177
    Alex Wickham
    @alexwickham
    Scoop: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden has told officials to draw up a list of "very robust options" to take action against the 6 English ESL clubs

    Told one of the options is the German 50+1% model of fan representation

    All options on the table

    https://politi.co/3svJcDk
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited April 2021

    F1: apparently, Miami's actually going ahead next year:

    https://twitter.com/F1/status/1383884679145607168

    The circuit I saw a year or two ago suggested it'd be another identikit snoozathon street circuit.

    This one is going to be a slightly different snoozeathon flat street circuit - with the mayor and most of the council opposed to the plans. I'll believe it's happening only when the cars are on the track.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,375
    tlg86 said:

    I doubt Mrs T would have had much of an opinion either way.

    Personally I don’t think the government should get involved. The leagues and UEFA should chuck them out right now.
    Trouble is that if the football authorities do that, this league (and to be clear, it is a Bad Thing) WILL happen. And even if it turns into a meaningless circus, that WILL hurt the rest of the football system.

    Hence, the most likely endpoint is UEFA conceding enough control/money/virtually guaranteed slots to keep the superelite clubs happy. Goodbye Champions League, hello UEFA Super League.

    We've long established what both the clubs and the blazers are. All that remains is haggling over the price.
  • Alex Wickham
    @alexwickham
    Scoop: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden has told officials to draw up a list of "very robust options" to take action against the 6 English ESL clubs

    Told one of the options is the German 50+1% model of fan representation

    All options on the table

    https://politi.co/3svJcDk

    So the government will be supporting trade unions making up 50%+1 of the board of companies.

    This is a hard left government in action.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Sandpit said:

    The point would be that any unregistered foreign agents would be looking at life imprisonment if caught by our own agencies, rather than simply a free flight back home.
    Precisely. That's why the Americans have had this scheme for nearly a century, its surprising its taken us this long to catch up.

    This way if Russian spies are caught in Salisbury then they've broken the law even if we can't prove what they were doing while sightseeing.
  • You said none of them would play in the FA Cup or League Cup, which is untrue.
    It has been commented that there will be no participation in these competitions due to the commitments to the Super League

    I am happy to be corrected if the Super League clubs do participate in domestic competitions
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823

    2 sections of ten teams means only 18 mid week slots for the league part, and 6 for the knock out slots.

    38 is a fiction in your head.
    It's 18 plus up to 5 knock out games. Plus 38 league matches that's 53-58 matches already. No idea how you then fit in at least the FA cup and England matches for the players. Exhaustion becomes a serious factor, especially in even years for tournaments. We're potentially talking about 65-69 competitive club and country matches per season, plus an additional 5-9 in world cup/euro years. I'm just not sure the players have been considered in this grab for cash.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Stay out as it means facing Luis Suarez on a regular basis.
    Give him a Snickers before kick off and he might not bite people though.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814

    2 sections of ten teams means only 18 mid week slots for the league part, and 6 for the knock out slots.

    38 is a fiction in your head.
    Two legged quarter finals and semi's means you play 23 matches including the final. But they won't hold the knockout matches to clash with each other. I had heard of a playoff concept before the knockouts but that doesn't seem to have been confirmed.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited April 2021

    2 sections of ten teams means only 18 mid week slots for the league part, and 6 for the knock out slots.

    38 is a fiction in your head.
    Up to 7 for the knock out slots surely?

    2 for the Play Off
    2 for the Quarter Final
    2 for the Semi Final
    1 Final

    So up to 25 games. Plus 38 for the Premier League is 63 games without considering the FA or League Cup.
  • F1: apparently, Miami's actually going ahead next year:

    https://twitter.com/F1/status/1383884679145607168

    The circuit I saw a year or two ago suggested it'd be another identikit snoozathon street circuit.

    Another American F1 race in a car park. Yay!

    F1 needs a boot up the arse. We do not need to keep touring the world to stupid tracks in dubious places like Jeddah and Miami. We need proper races at places like Imola.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,163

    Should Arsenal today?

    As it stands Arsenal are ninth in the Premier League. Qualification from on the field results this season would justify Everton, Leicester and West Ham more than the Gunners this season.

    As a Liverpool fan I have been disappointed in the seasons where we failed to qualify for the Champions League, but that made it all the more special when we won qualification back. If qualification isn't earnt it becomes meaningless.
    Arsenal are fifth on the sort of lists that matter to this proposal.

    https://withafunfilter.com/the-top-15-biggest-and-most-supported-football-teams-in-the-world/
  • Up to 7 for the knock out slots surely?

    2 for the Play Off
    2 for the Quarter Final
    2 for the Semi Final
    1 Final

    So up to 25 games. Plus 38 for the Premier League is 53 games without considering the FA or League Cup.
    They plan to play the final on a Saturday, so no need for a midweek slot.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,635

    Bloody hell! Hurrah!

    Some in the party are actually waking up.

    As I've said here more than once, don't obsess about the top 10% and bottom 10%, appeal to the 80% in the middle. People who aren't fussed about the bedroom tax. Or use food banks. Or what term might replace BAMER. Or Palestine. But they want a good school for their kids, a quality NHS they can rely on in times of need, feel safe in their own homes and communities and be confident that if they play by the rules the system will treat them fairly.

    Of course he’s right but there are far too many in labour worried about offending people on social media, especially twitter. They need to realise what plays well with their voters and what plays well with vocal minorities on twitter aren’t the same. It would also be good for,some in the party to stop demonising people in these communities for,voting the wrong way and to stop taking their votes for granted.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,678

    It has been commented that there will be no participation in these competitions due to the commitments to the Super League

    I am happy to be corrected if the Super League clubs do participate in domestic competitions
    My understanding (but others following it more may know otherwise) is that they are willing to do both (hence the emphasis on midweek) but the domestic competitions are threatening to ban them (which iMO would be cutting off their nose to spite their face). It does mean that the top club footballers will have to work harder in return for their interesting salaries.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,825

    Boris very lucky general, gets to say British football for British people, up the werkers....rather than all the lobbying stuff dominating 100hrs of coverage.

    Except it's a terrible subject for him. He probably thinks football is some inferior, new-fangled version of the Eton wall game.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    They plan to play the final on a Saturday, so no need for a midweek slot.
    Still 24 midweek slots, 63 games per club even without FA or League Cup is an immense planned commitment.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,635
    How on Earth is a european super league against the interests of British business. The EPL would still continue.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823

    Up to 7 for the knock out slots surely?

    2 for the Play Off
    2 for the Quarter Final
    2 for the Semi Final
    1 Final

    So up to 25 games. Plus 38 for the Premier League is 53 games without considering the FA or League Cup.
    The league cup was dead either way, I'm not sure it would have survived even with the uefa plan. It's the FA cup and 20 team league structure that are in trouble. They'll start talking about an 18 team league and fourth round entry for ESL clubs for the FA cup soon. That makes it 34 league games per season and only a maximum of 5 FA cup matches.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,591
    I yield to no man in my indifference to football. I wouldn't bother to watch any of the aforementioned teams if they were playing in the field outside my house, although the variable slope and luxuriant vegetation would make it slightly more interesting than usual. But isn't the current imbroglio just a logical extension of the Premier League exit 20-odd years ago? The blazers screamed and screamed but soon kowtowed after wads of fivers were dangled before their noses. Chances are they'll do the same this time for wads of tenners.
  • NEW THREAD

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,333

    F1: apparently, Miami's actually going ahead next year:

    https://twitter.com/F1/status/1383884679145607168

    The circuit I saw a year or two ago suggested it'd be another identikit snoozathon street circuit.

    It does have some merits. It will be well attended as Florida has an amazing car/motorsport scene and Miami is a fantastic location for the post race hedonism.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,741

    Still 24 midweek slots, 63 games per club even without FA or League Cup is an immense planned commitment.
    Just add some more players to the squad...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,177

    My understanding (but others following it more may know otherwise) is that they are willing to do both (hence the emphasis on midweek) but the domestic competitions are threatening to ban them (which iMO would be cutting off their nose to spite their face). It does mean that the top club footballers will have to work harder in return for their interesting salaries.
    You don’t get it.

    The PL is going to be completely devalued in both scenarios. If they let them do it, the “big 6” become even more entrenched with vast unshared and seemingly never-ending revenues, effectively pulling the ladder up on the rest of the league for perpetuity. If they kick them out, it’s going to be devalued but at least you retain some degree of sporting integrity.

    The fact is the “big 6” are a total bunch of selfish c*nts because the rest of the English pyramid relies on the success of the PL and in undermining that, they’ve undermined the entire national football infrastructure.

    Like stated last night, the next PL tv rights must be completely worthless until this is sorted out.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    We know they have interfered at various points. Hiding behind the science when it suits them. Being clear at press conferences that they listen to the science but get to make the decisions when it suits them. So stop being naive with the suggestion that He can't possibly have any influence.

    Pox is currently tearing India asunder and we have a few isolated cases of their variant here already. India is an obvious country to go on the red list to anyone with a brain. It is hardly a great leap to connect its exclusion with the forthcoming trade delegation.

    After all, we cannot upset the troops. Covid comes to an end on 21st June. It is an ever fixed mark.
    It would have been quicker to write

    “No. I made it up”
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,681
    Charles said:

    Do you know for a fact that Johnson has overruled the advice of the experts that make a recommendation to the relevant committee?

    I’m very surprised that hasn’t leaking more widely. It would be dynamite! You must be really well connected. Wow!
    Ah. The Rochdale Thin Air Theory of politics.

    India will be on the list in a few days I'd say. Here, Bangladesh and Pakistan are on the list, the rest are not.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,177
    Taz said:

    How on Earth is a european super league against the interests of British business. The EPL would still continue.

    Because the EPL would become a secondary league, devaluing the product and therefore the revenues.

    In fact the revenues of the entire english pyramid is going to be hit now, regardlessly, because of selfish greed.

    Why would Arsenal or Chelsea, or anyone involved, care where they finish in the PL when they are guaranteed a spot in the Super League? It turns the PL into the league cup.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    "Super League organisers say each club participating in the competition will receive a payment of €3.5bn"

    https://www.skysports.com/football/live-blog/11661/12279732/european-super-league-plans-live-updates

    Technically Spurs have already pulled up the grass at White Hart Lane (demolished 2017).

    Liverpool vs Real Madrid is exciting because it is rare, and there is a list of historic games between the sides that everyone remembers.

    Once they play 6 times a year? Meh. And who will want to fly to Madrid 3 times a year on a Wednesday, followed by Milan the following week?


    Who or what is financing this based on future earnings? Sell. Bury. Salt the ground.



    Spurs are still at White Hart Lane albeit in a new stadium!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Thanks to @Charles who replied to this after I had retired for the night: anti-lockdown he reckons.

    rottenborough said:
    Anyone know what this is?

    https://twitter.com/UKcitizen2021

    I googled it and a couple of anti-lockdown tweets came up with that hash tag but no more insight than that
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,681
    edited April 2021
    Though it's worth a note that the Indian vaccination rollout is running quite quickly.

    This is not at all a carefully chosen chart. Ahem.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    tlg86 said:

    You’re in favour of this, aren’t you?

    I can tell when you start trotting out stupid arguments like this.
    Yes, it’s moronic and predictable from Eagles. As one of many PB ‘Scousers’ who has zero connection to Merseyside, who should be surprised?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,223
    IanB2 said:

    Six opposition parties in the Commons are urging the Speaker, Sir Lindsay Hoyle, to allow a vote on an inquiry into Boris Johnson’s “consistent failure to be honest” in statements to MPs.

    They want Hoyle to let them table a motion saying that Johnson’s conduct should be referred to the committee of privileges, on the grounds that making a deliberately misleading statement to MPs amounts to a contempt of parliament under the Commons rulebook, Erskine May.

    They might do better to take out a full page advert in the papers and publish the list of Boris's consistent failures to be honest.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,223

    Precisely. That's why the Americans have had this scheme for nearly a century, its surprising its taken us this long to catch up.

    This way if Russian spies are caught in Salisbury then they've broken the law even if we can't prove what they were doing while sightseeing.
    Good luck catching Russian spies in Salisbury. MI5 could not spot ISIS recruits leaving the country with a one-way ticket to Syria. And suppose you could, what then? Imprison said Russkis and a week later a couple of British tourists visiting St Basil's Cathedral would be arrested in order to be swapped, and a Russian ship accidentally collide with a North Sea trawler. The United States can do this because it has lots of pointy things that go bang and we do not.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,681
    edited April 2021

    Good luck catching Russian spies in Salisbury. MI5 could not spot ISIS recruits leaving the country with a one-way ticket to Syria. And suppose you could, what then? Imprison said Russkis and a week later a couple of British tourists visiting St Basil's Cathedral would be arrested in order to be swapped, and a Russian ship accidentally collide with a North Sea trawler. The United States can do this because it has lots of pointy things that go bang and we do not.
    If that is the price that has to be paid, then that is the price that has to be paid.

    The argument is similar to never negotiating with highjackers.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,223
    MattW said:

    If that is the price that has to be paid, then that is the price that has to be paid.

    The argument is similar to never negotiating with highjackers.
    No it is not, unless the hijackers in question have a powerful army and not just a disorganised street gang.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,681

    No it is not, unless the hijackers in question have a powerful army and not just a disorganised street gang.
    That would then be plan B.
  • ridaligoridaligo Posts: 174
    moonshine said:

    So it seems after 90 years of family ties to the Arsenal, I’m in the market for a new club. Any recco’s?

    afc.co.uk ... my team ... you can still support an afc that has won 2 European trophies! Job done.
This discussion has been closed.