The Spectator Index @spectatorindex · 45s BREAKING: UEFA says every player and club who participate in new Super League will be banned from UEFA and FIFA football tournaments
That's pretty brutal. And entertaining
League and Union. Rugby could have been the world's sport.
So the proposal is effectively turning the founding teams into franchises like the American Football teams. Sadly if there is enough money in that they could get away with it.
It is clearly a gambit to get better terms in the Champions League. A 12 team closed shop ain’t going to happen.
Agreed: you need 20 - maybe even 22 or 24 - teams to make it work, especially as the teams involved aren't going to be playing traditional European football or the equivalent of the FA Cup.
They just said on Sky, there except 3 more teams to be founding members and 5 qualifying places every year i.e 20 teams.
There can't be five qualifying places EVERY year.
12 teams - even 12 + 3 teams for the inaugural season - is not enough. That's 28 games per side, against the 45+ that Chelsea or Man City would expect to play in a typical season. The only way it would work would be if you played everyone four times in the season, and that's also a really stupid idea.
It’s 20 clubs every year, 5 of which rotate
They might say that, but that requires UEFA/FIFA to fold, and they have absolutely no incentive to do so.
If the devious dozen push ahead with this, then these teams will all be leaving their domestic leagues imminently.
The question is, really: how gutsy do the American owners of Arsenal and the like feel? They have to have known that FIFA/UEFA would say "no".
My gut - FWIW - is that if they can persuade five or six more top rated European soccer teams to join, then this goes ahead as a breakaway league.
Bayern and PSG are the crucial teams. If they can persuade them...
However, even then the international ban is a massive issue
The Spectator Index @spectatorindex · 45s BREAKING: UEFA says every player and club who participate in new Super League will be banned from UEFA and FIFA football tournaments
That's pretty brutal. And entertaining
League and Union. Rugby could have been the world's sport.
Is this supposed to be 19 or 38 matches per season? If it's the latter how does that even fit into the schedule.
This will end in one of two ways:
1. The teams fold (perhaps because EUFA throws them a bone) 2. There is a breakaway league
Right now, 1 is more probable. But if they can go from the devious dozen to the treacherous twenty (and perhaps can land a ridiculous sum from Amazon for the streaming rights), then 2 happens.
It is clearly a gambit to get better terms in the Champions League. A 12 team closed shop ain’t going to happen.
Agreed: you need 20 - maybe even 22 or 24 - teams to make it work, especially as the teams involved aren't going to be playing traditional European football or the equivalent of the FA Cup.
They just said on Sky, there except 3 more teams to be founding members and 5 qualifying places every year i.e 20 teams.
There can't be five qualifying places EVERY year.
12 teams - even 12 + 3 teams for the inaugural season - is not enough. That's 28 games per side, against the 45+ that Chelsea or Man City would expect to play in a typical season. The only way it would work would be if you played everyone four times in the season, and that's also a really stupid idea.
It’s 20 clubs every year, 5 of which rotate
They might say that, but that requires UEFA/FIFA to fold, and they have absolutely no incentive to do so.
If the devious dozen push ahead with this, then these teams will all be leaving their domestic leagues imminently.
The question is, really: how gutsy do the American owners of Arsenal and the like feel? They have to have known that FIFA/UEFA would say "no".
My gut - FWIW - is that if they can persuade five or six more top rated European soccer teams to join, then this goes ahead as a breakaway league.
The issue is the players. Will players want to play for a club in that league knowing it kills any hope of international football. No world cups is a big fucking deal. The issue here is that American sports is inherently insular. Football is precisely the opposite so having a closed league cheapens the competition.
The Spectator Index @spectatorindex · 45s BREAKING: UEFA says every player and club who participate in new Super League will be banned from UEFA and FIFA football tournaments
That's pretty brutal. And entertaining
League and Union. Rugby could have been the world's sport.
The Spectator Index @spectatorindex · 45s BREAKING: UEFA says every player and club who participate in new Super League will be banned from UEFA and FIFA football tournaments
That's pretty brutal. And entertaining
League and Union. Rugby could have been the world's sport.
The Spectator Index @spectatorindex · 45s BREAKING: UEFA says every player and club who participate in new Super League will be banned from UEFA and FIFA football tournaments
That's pretty brutal. And entertaining
League and Union. Rugby could have been the world's sport.
The Spectator Index @spectatorindex · 45s BREAKING: UEFA says every player and club who participate in new Super League will be banned from UEFA and FIFA football tournaments
That's pretty brutal. And entertaining
League and Union. Rugby could have been the world's sport.
The Spectator Index @spectatorindex · 45s BREAKING: UEFA says every player and club who participate in new Super League will be banned from UEFA and FIFA football tournaments
That's pretty brutal. And entertaining
League and Union. Rugby could have been the world's sport.
The Spectator Index @spectatorindex · 45s BREAKING: UEFA says every player and club who participate in new Super League will be banned from UEFA and FIFA football tournaments
That's pretty brutal. And entertaining
League and Union. Rugby could have been the world's sport.
The Spectator Index @spectatorindex · 45s BREAKING: UEFA says every player and club who participate in new Super League will be banned from UEFA and FIFA football tournaments
That's pretty brutal. And entertaining
League and Union. Rugby could have been the world's sport.
The original Premier League contained Ipswich, Oldham and Wimbledon.
Fortunes rise and fall in real football. It want that long ago that Man City was in the 3rd Tier and Sheffield Wednesday and Nottingham Forest were "big clubs".
Is this supposed to be 19 or 38 matches per season? If it's the latter how does that even fit into the schedule.
This will end in one of two ways:
1. The teams fold (perhaps because EUFA throws them a bone) 2. There is a breakaway league
Right now, 1 is more probable. But if they can go from the devious dozen to the treacherous twenty (and perhaps can land a ridiculous sum from Amazon for the streaming rights), then 2 happens.
Isn't there a 3? Total non- co-operation? A season with no football of any kind to play in and huge contracts to honour? Don't think it will happen, but it sure is a hardball tactic to be considered. Can they get a league starting in September?
1. Presumably clubs can play whoever they like. 2. Similarly, the Premier League etc..can choose which clubs they allow to play in their leagues. 3. However, is it legal for the Premier League to prevenit its players from playing elsewhere? Isn't that an illegal restraint of trade?
The Spectator Index @spectatorindex · 45s BREAKING: UEFA says every player and club who participate in new Super League will be banned from UEFA and FIFA football tournaments
That's pretty brutal. And entertaining
League and Union. Rugby could have been the world's sport.
Jason Burt @JBurtTelegraph · 1m Told all six Premier League clubs have quit the European Club Association along with the six other 'founding fathers' of the Super League.
The notion of "founding fathers" in a league, who cannot be relegated, makes me want to puke
The original Premier League contained Ipswich, Oldham and Wimbledon.
Fortunes rise and fall in real football. It want that long ago that Man City was in the 3rd Tier and Sheffield Wednesday and Nottingham Forest were "big clubs".
Wednesday and Forest are still big clubs.
As were City even when they were in the third tier.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
QTWTAIN
(You also believed the European vaccine ban story, despite my repeatedly warning you it was a nonsense)
The timing of this is odd. One would have thought that Man City, for one, would quite like to gey to the end of a season where they still stand a reasonable chance of winning three tournaments without getting kicked out of them all. I wonder why not over the summer? I agree with Anabobs - bargaining chip.
1. Presumably clubs can play whoever they like. 2. Similarly, the Premier League etc..can choose which clubs they allow to play in their leagues. 3. However, is it legal for the Premier League to prevenit its players from playing elsewhere? Isn't that an illegal restraint of trade?
On 3. Is it legal for an institution, say, er, the House of commons, for example, to regulate employment elsewhere? Tying 2 stories together.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
That's not per season though, that's for 10 seasons split 15 ways. The numbers don't work at all.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
No, that's a speculative amount over many years. The initial money is €350m (or maybe dollars, accounts differ)
It is clearly a gambit to get better terms in the Champions League. A 12 team closed shop ain’t going to happen.
Agreed: you need 20 - maybe even 22 or 24 - teams to make it work, especially as the teams involved aren't going to be playing traditional European football or the equivalent of the FA Cup.
They just said on Sky, there except 3 more teams to be founding members and 5 qualifying places every year i.e 20 teams.
There can't be five qualifying places EVERY year.
12 teams - even 12 + 3 teams for the inaugural season - is not enough. That's 28 games per side, against the 45+ that Chelsea or Man City would expect to play in a typical season. The only way it would work would be if you played everyone four times in the season, and that's also a really stupid idea.
It’s 20 clubs every year, 5 of which rotate
They might say that, but that requires UEFA/FIFA to fold, and they have absolutely no incentive to do so.
If the devious dozen push ahead with this, then these teams will all be leaving their domestic leagues imminently.
The question is, really: how gutsy do the American owners of Arsenal and the like feel? They have to have known that FIFA/UEFA would say "no".
My gut - FWIW - is that if they can persuade five or six more top rated European soccer teams to join, then this goes ahead as a breakaway league.
The issue is the players. Will players want to play for a club in that league knowing it kills any hope of international football. No world cups is a big fucking deal. The issue here is that American sports is inherently insular. Football is precisely the opposite so having a closed league cheapens the competition.
I agree.
This only "works" if there is enough money involved to enable the teams to keep all the best players.
And it only "works" if it can be successful enough in the first couple of seasons to force FIFA/UEFA to the negotiating table. Because right now, FIFA/UEFA is just saying "non".
Jason Burt @JBurtTelegraph · 1m Told all six Premier League clubs have quit the European Club Association along with the six other 'founding fathers' of the Super League.
The notion of "founding fathers" in a league, who cannot be relegated, makes me want to puke
What is the European Club Association? And what is the significance of quitting it?
Is this supposed to be 19 or 38 matches per season? If it's the latter how does that even fit into the schedule.
This will end in one of two ways:
1. The teams fold (perhaps because EUFA throws them a bone) 2. There is a breakaway league
Right now, 1 is more probable. But if they can go from the devious dozen to the treacherous twenty (and perhaps can land a ridiculous sum from Amazon for the streaming rights), then 2 happens.
Isn't there a 3? Total non- co-operation? A season with no football of any kind to play in and huge contracts to honour? Don't think it will happen, but it sure is a hardball tactic to be considered. Can they get a league starting in September?
Yes.
Organising a game of soccer or six isn't rocket science.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
That's not per season though, that's for 10 seasons split 15 ways. The numbers don't work at all.
"In addition, the competition will be built on a sustainable financial foundation with all Founding Clubs signing up to a spending framework. In exchange for their commitment, Founding Clubs will receive an amount of €3.5 billion solely to support their infrastructure investment plans and to offset the impact of the COVID pandemic."
That makes it sound like they are getting it upfront.
Jason Burt @JBurtTelegraph · 1m Told all six Premier League clubs have quit the European Club Association along with the six other 'founding fathers' of the Super League.
The notion of "founding fathers" in a league, who cannot be relegated, makes me want to puke
What is the European Club Association? And what is the significance of quitting it?
Apparently major. Tho I confess, like you, I had never heard of it until about 10 minutes ago
It is clearly a gambit to get better terms in the Champions League. A 12 team closed shop ain’t going to happen.
Agreed: you need 20 - maybe even 22 or 24 - teams to make it work, especially as the teams involved aren't going to be playing traditional European football or the equivalent of the FA Cup.
They just said on Sky, there except 3 more teams to be founding members and 5 qualifying places every year i.e 20 teams.
There can't be five qualifying places EVERY year.
12 teams - even 12 + 3 teams for the inaugural season - is not enough. That's 28 games per side, against the 45+ that Chelsea or Man City would expect to play in a typical season. The only way it would work would be if you played everyone four times in the season, and that's also a really stupid idea.
It’s 20 clubs every year, 5 of which rotate
They might say that, but that requires UEFA/FIFA to fold, and they have absolutely no incentive to do so.
If the devious dozen push ahead with this, then these teams will all be leaving their domestic leagues imminently.
The question is, really: how gutsy do the American owners of Arsenal and the like feel? They have to have known that FIFA/UEFA would say "no".
My gut - FWIW - is that if they can persuade five or six more top rated European soccer teams to join, then this goes ahead as a breakaway league.
The issue is the players. Will players want to play for a club in that league knowing it kills any hope of international football. No world cups is a big fucking deal. The issue here is that American sports is inherently insular. Football is precisely the opposite so having a closed league cheapens the competition.
I agree.
This only "works" if there is enough money involved to enable the teams to keep all the best players.
And it only "works" if it can be successful enough in the first couple of seasons to force FIFA/UEFA to the negotiating table. Because right now, FIFA/UEFA is just saying "non".
But in the meantime there's a euro championship and world cup coming. Players won't want to miss those.
I'm sceptical about the header theme - Johnson and Starmer and Davey have all said gosh, this is unacceptable, but does anyone expect the Government to do anything about it? And what? Pass a law saying you can play in this competition but you are forbidden to play in that one? I can't see a vaguely leftist argument - big capitalist clubs forming an elite - but essentially it seems off-field for the politicians.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
Lol. Show me the money! Nobody is delivering €3.5bn in used twenties to White Hart Lane or anywhere else on Monday morning.
Needless to be said if this does go ahead then this will be a disaster for Sky and BT.
For BT you’ve got a fatally wounded Champions League without the glamour or the biggest fanbases.
For Sky worst scenario is the big clubs are kicked out the Premier League. No matter how far they drive down the rights renewal they will lose subscribers by the bucketload.
For Sky the best case scenario is the big clubs remain but with a season like this one, the title and relegation are all but wrapped up early and there is no ‘top 4 race’ to hype and the season drifts to a meek conclusion.
In summary: if you’ve got shares in Sky or BT I’d think about selling them!
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
That's not per season though, that's for 10 seasons split 15 ways. The numbers don't work at all.
"In addition, the competition will be built on a sustainable financial foundation with all Founding Clubs signing up to a spending framework. In exchange for their commitment, Founding Clubs will receive an amount of €3.5 billion solely to support their infrastructure investment plans and to offset the impact of the COVID pandemic."
That makes it sound like they are getting it upfront.
The Spectator Index @spectatorindex · 45s BREAKING: UEFA says every player and club who participate in new Super League will be banned from UEFA and FIFA football tournaments
That's pretty brutal. And entertaining
League and Union. Rugby could have been the world's sport.
Is this supposed to be 19 or 38 matches per season? If it's the latter how does that even fit into the schedule.
This will end in one of two ways:
1. The teams fold (perhaps because EUFA throws them a bone) 2. There is a breakaway league
Right now, 1 is more probable. But if they can go from the devious dozen to the treacherous twenty (and perhaps can land a ridiculous sum from Amazon for the streaming rights), then 2 happens.
Isn't there a 3? Total non- co-operation? A season with no football of any kind to play in and huge contracts to honour? Don't think it will happen, but it sure is a hardball tactic to be considered. Can they get a league starting in September?
Yes.
Organising a game of soccer or six isn't rocket science.
OK. I now see they plan to launch in August with midweek games. All the more incentive to deny them weekend football. Just kick them out.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
That's not per season though, that's for 10 seasons split 15 ways. The numbers don't work at all.
"In addition, the competition will be built on a sustainable financial foundation with all Founding Clubs signing up to a spending framework. In exchange for their commitment, Founding Clubs will receive an amount of €3.5 billion solely to support their infrastructure investment plans and to offset the impact of the COVID pandemic."
That makes it sound like they are getting it upfront.
lol no
Football is lucrative but it isn't THAT lucrative
12 teams getting €3.5bn upfront would be €40 billion
During a crushing pandemic, even J P Morgan is not going to throw FORTY BILLION EURO at a speculative new football tournament, which might easily fail
The truly incredible thing about these periodic plans to create a new 'super league' (super in the sense that certain clubs get lifetime privileges no matter what), is that it ends up putting people on the same side as UEFA and FIFA.
Do the clubs realise how despicable they have to be to make people go 'You know, FIFA and UEFA are right about this'?
Short term gain for long term damage to the game, what a bunch of fools. Just because a large slice of the pie wasn't enough, they want the whole damn thing.
Edit:
And as speculated it may well be a bluff. But things are still very wrong even if you are only bluffing when you say it. Don't expect gratitude for not shooting someone if you tell them afterwards you were only bluffing.
It is clearly a gambit to get better terms in the Champions League. A 12 team closed shop ain’t going to happen.
Agreed: you need 20 - maybe even 22 or 24 - teams to make it work, especially as the teams involved aren't going to be playing traditional European football or the equivalent of the FA Cup.
They just said on Sky, there except 3 more teams to be founding members and 5 qualifying places every year i.e 20 teams.
There can't be five qualifying places EVERY year.
12 teams - even 12 + 3 teams for the inaugural season - is not enough. That's 28 games per side, against the 45+ that Chelsea or Man City would expect to play in a typical season. The only way it would work would be if you played everyone four times in the season, and that's also a really stupid idea.
It’s 20 clubs every year, 5 of which rotate
They might say that, but that requires UEFA/FIFA to fold, and they have absolutely no incentive to do so.
If the devious dozen push ahead with this, then these teams will all be leaving their domestic leagues imminently.
The question is, really: how gutsy do the American owners of Arsenal and the like feel? They have to have known that FIFA/UEFA would say "no".
My gut - FWIW - is that if they can persuade five or six more top rated European soccer teams to join, then this goes ahead as a breakaway league.
The issue is the players. Will players want to play for a club in that league knowing it kills any hope of international football. No world cups is a big fucking deal. The issue here is that American sports is inherently insular. Football is precisely the opposite so having a closed league cheapens the competition.
I agree.
This only "works" if there is enough money involved to enable the teams to keep all the best players.
And it only "works" if it can be successful enough in the first couple of seasons to force FIFA/UEFA to the negotiating table. Because right now, FIFA/UEFA is just saying "non".
But in the meantime there's a euro championship and world cup coming. Players won't want to miss those.
True.
BUT
How can FIFA/EUFA exclude someone from the European Championships *before* they kick a ball in a Super League game?
If you're a player at Arsenal... (actually, do they have any English players?)... then even if you plan on never playing in a Super League game, you would still be a Super League player the moment that Arsenal pulled the plug.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
That's not per season though, that's for 10 seasons split 15 ways. The numbers don't work at all.
"In addition, the competition will be built on a sustainable financial foundation with all Founding Clubs signing up to a spending framework. In exchange for their commitment, Founding Clubs will receive an amount of €3.5 billion solely to support their infrastructure investment plans and to offset the impact of the COVID pandemic."
That makes it sound like they are getting it upfront.
Split 15 ways and mortgaged against future TV rights earnings. It's a joke.
I'm sceptical about the header theme - Johnson and Starmer and Davey have all said gosh, this is unacceptable, but does anyone expect the Government to do anything about it? And what? Pass a law saying you can play in this competition but you are forbidden to play in that one? I can't see a vaguely leftist argument - big capitalist clubs forming an elite - but essentially it seems off-field for the politicians.
Well, you're broadly correct Nick - this shouldn't be a matter for the state to intervene. But it's also a matter which is going to arouse strong feelings, and politicians are drawn to that sort of thing like moths to a flame. I'd be pleased but surprised to see any politician gruffly announce that the appropriate government response to this is no response at all.
I'm sceptical about the header theme - Johnson and Starmer and Davey have all said gosh, this is unacceptable, but does anyone expect the Government to do anything about it? And what? Pass a law saying you can play in this competition but you are forbidden to play in that one? I can't see a vaguely leftist argument - big capitalist clubs forming an elite - but essentially it seems off-field for the politicians.
They could pass a law that all games played in this super league must be shown on free to air.
Would be amusing to see Arsenal receive $3.5bn as Kroenke goes out and spends $50m of it on assorted rubbish while pocketing the rest on behalf of his NFL team. The North London Derby would be actual relegation fodder in this super league, except without the relegation...
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
That's not per season though, that's for 10 seasons split 15 ways. The numbers don't work at all.
"In addition, the competition will be built on a sustainable financial foundation with all Founding Clubs signing up to a spending framework. In exchange for their commitment, Founding Clubs will receive an amount of €3.5 billion solely to support their infrastructure investment plans and to offset the impact of the COVID pandemic."
That makes it sound like they are getting it upfront.
Split 15 ways and mortgaged against future TV rights earnings. It's a joke.
"Super League organisers say each club participating in the competition will receive a payment of €3.5bn"
"These solidarity payments will be substantially higher than those generated by the current European competition and are expected to be in excess of €10 billion during the course of the initial commitment period of the Clubs.
I'm sceptical about the header theme - Johnson and Starmer and Davey have all said gosh, this is unacceptable, but does anyone expect the Government to do anything about it? And what? Pass a law saying you can play in this competition but you are forbidden to play in that one? I can't see a vaguely leftist argument - big capitalist clubs forming an elite - but essentially it seems off-field for the politicians.
Theoretically the government could stop it. I mean, they closed down every pub in the country for six months, banned every taxpayer from visiting their own parents for five months, and had their state broadcaster stream a rolling obituary of a royal on all 156 BBC channels simultaneously.
What makes you think they couldn’t pull up the grass at White Hart Lane?
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
That's not per season though, that's for 10 seasons split 15 ways. The numbers don't work at all.
"In addition, the competition will be built on a sustainable financial foundation with all Founding Clubs signing up to a spending framework. In exchange for their commitment, Founding Clubs will receive an amount of €3.5 billion solely to support their infrastructure investment plans and to offset the impact of the COVID pandemic."
That makes it sound like they are getting it upfront.
Split 15 ways and mortgaged against future TV rights earnings. It's a joke.
"Super League organisers say each club participating in the competition will receive a payment of €3.5bn"
I'm just glad Liverpool finally won the league before they officially became a bunch of twats. If they remain in it and win in future it won't feel as sweet.
It is clearly a gambit to get better terms in the Champions League. A 12 team closed shop ain’t going to happen.
Agreed: you need 20 - maybe even 22 or 24 - teams to make it work, especially as the teams involved aren't going to be playing traditional European football or the equivalent of the FA Cup.
They just said on Sky, there except 3 more teams to be founding members and 5 qualifying places every year i.e 20 teams.
There can't be five qualifying places EVERY year.
12 teams - even 12 + 3 teams for the inaugural season - is not enough. That's 28 games per side, against the 45+ that Chelsea or Man City would expect to play in a typical season. The only way it would work would be if you played everyone four times in the season, and that's also a really stupid idea.
It’s 20 clubs every year, 5 of which rotate
They might say that, but that requires UEFA/FIFA to fold, and they have absolutely no incentive to do so.
If the devious dozen push ahead with this, then these teams will all be leaving their domestic leagues imminently.
The question is, really: how gutsy do the American owners of Arsenal and the like feel? They have to have known that FIFA/UEFA would say "no".
My gut - FWIW - is that if they can persuade five or six more top rated European soccer teams to join, then this goes ahead as a breakaway league.
The issue is the players. Will players want to play for a club in that league knowing it kills any hope of international football. No world cups is a big fucking deal. The issue here is that American sports is inherently insular. Football is precisely the opposite so having a closed league cheapens the competition.
I agree.
This only "works" if there is enough money involved to enable the teams to keep all the best players.
And it only "works" if it can be successful enough in the first couple of seasons to force FIFA/UEFA to the negotiating table. Because right now, FIFA/UEFA is just saying "non".
But in the meantime there's a euro championship and world cup coming. Players won't want to miss those.
True.
BUT
How can FIFA/EUFA exclude someone from the European Championships *before* they kick a ball in a Super League game?
If you're a player at Arsenal... (actually, do they have any English players?)... then even if you plan on never playing in a Super League game, you would still be a Super League player the moment that Arsenal pulled the plug.
Ask the Rugby Football Union. They managed it for over 100 years.
It is clearly a gambit to get better terms in the Champions League. A 12 team closed shop ain’t going to happen.
Agreed: you need 20 - maybe even 22 or 24 - teams to make it work, especially as the teams involved aren't going to be playing traditional European football or the equivalent of the FA Cup.
They just said on Sky, there except 3 more teams to be founding members and 5 qualifying places every year i.e 20 teams.
There can't be five qualifying places EVERY year.
12 teams - even 12 + 3 teams for the inaugural season - is not enough. That's 28 games per side, against the 45+ that Chelsea or Man City would expect to play in a typical season. The only way it would work would be if you played everyone four times in the season, and that's also a really stupid idea.
It’s 20 clubs every year, 5 of which rotate
They might say that, but that requires UEFA/FIFA to fold, and they have absolutely no incentive to do so.
If the devious dozen push ahead with this, then these teams will all be leaving their domestic leagues imminently.
The question is, really: how gutsy do the American owners of Arsenal and the like feel? They have to have known that FIFA/UEFA would say "no".
My gut - FWIW - is that if they can persuade five or six more top rated European soccer teams to join, then this goes ahead as a breakaway league.
The issue is the players. Will players want to play for a club in that league knowing it kills any hope of international football. No world cups is a big fucking deal. The issue here is that American sports is inherently insular. Football is precisely the opposite so having a closed league cheapens the competition.
I agree.
This only "works" if there is enough money involved to enable the teams to keep all the best players.
And it only "works" if it can be successful enough in the first couple of seasons to force FIFA/UEFA to the negotiating table. Because right now, FIFA/UEFA is just saying "non".
But in the meantime there's a euro championship and world cup coming. Players won't want to miss those.
True.
BUT
How can FIFA/EUFA exclude someone from the European Championships *before* they kick a ball in a Super League game?
If you're a player at Arsenal... (actually, do they have any English players?)... then even if you plan on never playing in a Super League game, you would still be a Super League player the moment that Arsenal pulled the plug.
Ask the Rugby Football Union. They managed it for over 100 years.
Yes, but that was for a player quitting Rugby Union to join a Rugby League team. This would be banning people who have not yet performed an action.
Timing-wise, it's quite clever by the devious dozen.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
That's not per season though, that's for 10 seasons split 15 ways. The numbers don't work at all.
"In addition, the competition will be built on a sustainable financial foundation with all Founding Clubs signing up to a spending framework. In exchange for their commitment, Founding Clubs will receive an amount of €3.5 billion solely to support their infrastructure investment plans and to offset the impact of the COVID pandemic."
That makes it sound like they are getting it upfront.
Split 15 ways and mortgaged against future TV rights earnings. It's a joke.
"Super League organisers say each club participating in the competition will receive a payment of €3.5bn"
Sorry I wasn't clear, by upfront I meant they are getting it guaranteed for their "initial commitment period" which is obviously several seasons. I didn't mean a comedy sized cheque would be delivered tomorrow morning to them.
It isn't as Max said though split 15 ways, that per club, and they are estimating it will be 10bn per club over that period.
It sounds a crazy amount of money, what I was saying though is that is the carrot being waved. Barcelona are 1.4bn in the hole, somebody saying we will guarantee you 3.5bn, and you could potentially get 10bn over the course of a few seasons is big bucks....and would enable them to pay off the impending loans.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
That's not per season though, that's for 10 seasons split 15 ways. The numbers don't work at all.
"In addition, the competition will be built on a sustainable financial foundation with all Founding Clubs signing up to a spending framework. In exchange for their commitment, Founding Clubs will receive an amount of €3.5 billion solely to support their infrastructure investment plans and to offset the impact of the COVID pandemic."
That makes it sound like they are getting it upfront.
Split 15 ways and mortgaged against future TV rights earnings. It's a joke.
"Super League organisers say each club participating in the competition will receive a payment of €3.5bn"
"These solidarity payments will be substantially higher than those generated by the current European competition and are expected to be in excess of €10 billion during the course of the initial commitment period of the Clubs.
I'm just glad Liverpool finally won the league before they officially became a bunch of twats. If they remain in it and win in future it won't feel as sweet.
Are you sure that was before? I mean Heysel. Getting all English clubs banned at the very moment the finest side in Europe were Everton? You aren't liked for a reason.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
That's not per season though, that's for 10 seasons split 15 ways. The numbers don't work at all.
"In addition, the competition will be built on a sustainable financial foundation with all Founding Clubs signing up to a spending framework. In exchange for their commitment, Founding Clubs will receive an amount of €3.5 billion solely to support their infrastructure investment plans and to offset the impact of the COVID pandemic."
That makes it sound like they are getting it upfront.
Split 15 ways and mortgaged against future TV rights earnings. It's a joke.
"Super League organisers say each club participating in the competition will receive a payment of €3.5bn"
Sorry I wasn't clear, by upfront I meant they are getting it guaranteed for their "initial commitment period" which is obviously several seasons. It isn't as Max said though split 15 ways, that per club, and they are estimating it will be 10bn per club over that period of several years.
Its made up numbers though. There doesn't exist that well of money in football to generate €120bn over 10 seasons for a single tournament. The idea is ridiculous. European broadcasters are all trying to save money, not spend more. Pay TV relies on a superior product and with no threat of relegation for 15 clubs the matches are going to be dull.
I'm sceptical about the header theme - Johnson and Starmer and Davey have all said gosh, this is unacceptable, but does anyone expect the Government to do anything about it? And what? Pass a law saying you can play in this competition but you are forbidden to play in that one? I can't see a vaguely leftist argument - big capitalist clubs forming an elite - but essentially it seems off-field for the politicians.
Theoretically the government could stop it. I mean, they closed down every pub in the country for six months, banned every taxpayer from visiting their own parents for five months, and had their state broadcaster stream a rolling obituary of a royal on all 156 BBC channels simultaneously.
What makes you think they couldn’t pull up the grass at White Hart Lane?
Technically Spurs have already pulled up the grass at White Hart Lane (demolished 2017).
Liverpool vs Real Madrid is exciting because it is rare, and there is a list of historic games between the sides that everyone remembers.
Once they play 6 times a year? Meh. And who will want to fly to Madrid 3 times a year on a Wednesday, followed by Milan the following week?
Who or what is financing this based on future earnings? Sell. Bury. Salt the ground.
It is clearly a gambit to get better terms in the Champions League. A 12 team closed shop ain’t going to happen.
Agreed: you need 20 - maybe even 22 or 24 - teams to make it work, especially as the teams involved aren't going to be playing traditional European football or the equivalent of the FA Cup.
They just said on Sky, there except 3 more teams to be founding members and 5 qualifying places every year i.e 20 teams.
There can't be five qualifying places EVERY year.
12 teams - even 12 + 3 teams for the inaugural season - is not enough. That's 28 games per side, against the 45+ that Chelsea or Man City would expect to play in a typical season. The only way it would work would be if you played everyone four times in the season, and that's also a really stupid idea.
It’s 20 clubs every year, 5 of which rotate
They might say that, but that requires UEFA/FIFA to fold, and they have absolutely no incentive to do so.
If the devious dozen push ahead with this, then these teams will all be leaving their domestic leagues imminently.
The question is, really: how gutsy do the American owners of Arsenal and the like feel? They have to have known that FIFA/UEFA would say "no".
My gut - FWIW - is that if they can persuade five or six more top rated European soccer teams to join, then this goes ahead as a breakaway league.
The issue is the players. Will players want to play for a club in that league knowing it kills any hope of international football. No world cups is a big fucking deal. The issue here is that American sports is inherently insular. Football is precisely the opposite so having a closed league cheapens the competition.
I agree.
This only "works" if there is enough money involved to enable the teams to keep all the best players.
And it only "works" if it can be successful enough in the first couple of seasons to force FIFA/UEFA to the negotiating table. Because right now, FIFA/UEFA is just saying "non".
But in the meantime there's a euro championship and world cup coming. Players won't want to miss those.
True.
BUT
How can FIFA/EUFA exclude someone from the European Championships *before* they kick a ball in a Super League game?
If you're a player at Arsenal... (actually, do they have any English players?)... then even if you plan on never playing in a Super League game, you would still be a Super League player the moment that Arsenal pulled the plug.
Ask the Rugby Football Union. They managed it for over 100 years.
Yes, but that was for a player quitting Rugby Union to join a Rugby League team. This would be banning people who have not yet performed an action.
Timing-wise, it's quite clever by the devious dozen.
No. That was also for attending a game as a spectator. Or speaking to, or being seen with, a scout. Or socialising or associating with a RL official. Analogous to this.
Stan Collymore @StanCollymore · 14m If the Premier League, UEFA, FIFA, FA, La Liga, Serie A now don't kick these fuckers out, as the Super League seems to intimate ( we'll play midweek alongside domestic leagues), then every one of those bodies are finished.
Mike Keegan @MikeKeegan_DM I understand that lead PR for ESL is former Conservative councillor and Downing Street Director of Comms Katie Perrior, who carried out the role during Theresa May's tenure and who is also a Times columnist.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
Mike Keegan @MikeKeegan_DM I understand that lead PR for ESL is former Conservative councillor and Downing Street Director of Comms Katie Perrior, who carried out the role during Theresa May's tenure and who is also a Times columnist.
inhouse communications I believe is the PR company she involved with. I think they do a lot of work for big companies.
It is clearly a gambit to get better terms in the Champions League. A 12 team closed shop ain’t going to happen.
Agreed: you need 20 - maybe even 22 or 24 - teams to make it work, especially as the teams involved aren't going to be playing traditional European football or the equivalent of the FA Cup.
They just said on Sky, there except 3 more teams to be founding members and 5 qualifying places every year i.e 20 teams.
There can't be five qualifying places EVERY year.
12 teams - even 12 + 3 teams for the inaugural season - is not enough. That's 28 games per side, against the 45+ that Chelsea or Man City would expect to play in a typical season. The only way it would work would be if you played everyone four times in the season, and that's also a really stupid idea.
This is only supposed to be a midweek league, in addition to the national leagues.
You would effectively need two squads. The midweek league is going to contractually require the best players to be available for their league. And to take precedence over national squad call-up for a friendly against The Faroes. And to play games at ungodly hours of the morning or night for the Asian or American markets (sorry Africa, you'll have to lump it).
Meanwhile, your weekend punter is going to be at Anfield, but watching Crewe Alexandria reserves.....
RouteOneFootball @Route1futbol Two agents with knowledge of ongoings at PSG tell @GFFN that should The Super League be formalised, the Ligue 1 club will struggle to retain the majority of its key players. #PSG #UCL
So it could fuck Paris Saint Germain, which would provide amusing diversion, at least
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
That's not per season though, that's for 10 seasons split 15 ways. The numbers don't work at all.
"In addition, the competition will be built on a sustainable financial foundation with all Founding Clubs signing up to a spending framework. In exchange for their commitment, Founding Clubs will receive an amount of €3.5 billion solely to support their infrastructure investment plans and to offset the impact of the COVID pandemic."
That makes it sound like they are getting it upfront.
Split 15 ways and mortgaged against future TV rights earnings. It's a joke.
"Super League organisers say each club participating in the competition will receive a payment of €3.5bn"
Sorry I wasn't clear, by upfront I meant they are getting it guaranteed for their "initial commitment period" which is obviously several seasons. It isn't as Max said though split 15 ways, that per club, and they are estimating it will be 10bn per club over that period of several years.
Its made up numbers though. There doesn't exist that well of money in football to generate €120bn over 10 seasons for a single tournament. The idea is ridiculous. European broadcasters are all trying to save money, not spend more. Pay TV relies on a superior product and with no threat of relegation for 15 clubs the matches are going to be dull.
What about the non-European broadcasters?
I have no insight into how this will be perceived in Asia. But they do seem to have a history of not being particularly discerning when it comes to European football, and of being overly swayed by big names. It sounds plausible they could pull all the money they currently spend on the three national leagues in question plus the Champions' League, and pour it all into the new big shiny thing.
Mike Keegan @MikeKeegan_DM I understand that lead PR for ESL is former Conservative councillor and Downing Street Director of Comms Katie Perrior, who carried out the role during Theresa May's tenure and who is also a Times columnist.
Great. So the PM can lay this at the door of the Blair/Cameron Remain elite. Huge sigh. Running short of oxygen now the pandemic has abated.
Mike Keegan @MikeKeegan_DM I understand that lead PR for ESL is former Conservative councillor and Downing Street Director of Comms Katie Perrior, who carried out the role during Theresa May's tenure and who is also a Times columnist.
I’m sure they’re remunerating her well because that’s a fucking tough gig
Mike Keegan @MikeKeegan_DM I understand that lead PR for ESL is former Conservative councillor and Downing Street Director of Comms Katie Perrior, who carried out the role during Theresa May's tenure and who is also a Times columnist.
I’m sure they’re remunerating her well because that’s a fucking tough gig
To be fair, a piece of piss after working for Theresa May....
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
To carry a motion in the Premier League you need 14 votes. I know in recent times the big clubs have been getting annoyed with this balance of power such as when they were outvoted on extra substitutes in August. So technically those 14 could vote them out I reckon, though it’s pretty unthinkable.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
To carry a motion in the Premier League you need 14 votes. I know in recent times the big clubs have been getting annoyed with this balance of power such as when they were outvoted on extra substitutes in August. So technically those 14 could vote them out I reckon, though it’s pretty unthinkable.
Sheffield United will be drafting the expulsion motion as we speak.....
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
To carry a motion in the Premier League you need 14 votes. I know in recent times the big clubs have been getting annoyed with this balance of power such as when they were outvoted on extra substitutes in August. So technically those 14 could vote them out I reckon, though it’s pretty unthinkable.
It's far from unthinkable. This is existential for the EPL. The Superleague teams will dedicate themselves to the idiotic superleague, and the EPL will become secondary, utterly trashing the EPL spectacle and destroying broadcast value. Sky won't pay squillions any more
Meanwhile the "Founding Fathers" (yuk) will earn so much money (if it works) they will completely dominate the EPL even with their B teams, and they will continue to earn this money in perpetuity, as they cannot be relegated. They will buy all the best players and bench them if not needed
It is catastrophic for the EPL (but also for every other European domestic league). It is the worst idea I have ever seen
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
To carry a motion in the Premier League you need 14 votes. I know in recent times the big clubs have been getting annoyed with this balance of power such as when they were outvoted on extra substitutes in August. So technically those 14 could vote them out I reckon, though it’s pretty unthinkable.
Sheffield United will be drafting the expulsion motion as we speak.....
They were indeed correct to vote against the extra subs, it was certainly a motion to tip things in favour of the sides with the greatest resources. I guess these rich entitled owners can’t understand why they don’t have full autonomy over the rules. Funny to think the Blades have a probable billionaire owner and they’re the underdogs in all of this!
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
To carry a motion in the Premier League you need 14 votes. I know in recent times the big clubs have been getting annoyed with this balance of power such as when they were outvoted on extra substitutes in August. So technically those 14 could vote them out I reckon, though it’s pretty unthinkable.
Sheffield United will be drafting the expulsion motion as we speak.....
They were indeed correct to vote against the extra subs, it was certainly a motion to tip things in favour of the sides with the greatest resources. I guess these rich entitled owners can’t understand why they don’t have full autonomy over the rules. Funny to think the Blades have a probable billionaire owner and they’re the underdogs in all of this!
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
To carry a motion in the Premier League you need 14 votes. I know in recent times the big clubs have been getting annoyed with this balance of power such as when they were outvoted on extra substitutes in August. So technically those 14 could vote them out I reckon, though it’s pretty unthinkable.
It's far from unthinkable. This is existential for the EPL. The Superleague teams will dedicate themselves to the idiotic superleague, and the EPL will become secondary, utterly trashing the EPL spectacle and destroying broadcast value. Sky won't pay squillions any more
Meanwhile the "Founding Fathers" (yuk) will earn so much money (if it works) they will completely dominate the EPL even with their B teams, and they will continue to earn this money in perpetuity, as they cannot be relegated. They will buy all the best players and bench them if not needed
It is catastrophic for the EPL (but also for every other European domestic league). It is the worst idea I have ever seen
I just think would Everton vote out Liverpool, would West Ham vote out Spurs? Their own values would suffer massively from losing rivals and the biggest revenue draws in the league.
I think their fans would sooner keep the big 6 and give dogs abuse to their rivals about what a load of mercenaries they are.
This is a problem for the EPL bosses who cannot really risk going against the Super League as they’re fucked with it but completely fucked without the big 6.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
To carry a motion in the Premier League you need 14 votes. I know in recent times the big clubs have been getting annoyed with this balance of power such as when they were outvoted on extra substitutes in August. So technically those 14 could vote them out I reckon, though it’s pretty unthinkable.
It's far from unthinkable. This is existential for the EPL. The Superleague teams will dedicate themselves to the idiotic superleague, and the EPL will become secondary, utterly trashing the EPL spectacle and destroying broadcast value. Sky won't pay squillions any more
Meanwhile the "Founding Fathers" (yuk) will earn so much money (if it works) they will completely dominate the EPL even with their B teams, and they will continue to earn this money in perpetuity, as they cannot be relegated. They will buy all the best players and bench them if not needed
It is catastrophic for the EPL (but also for every other European domestic league). It is the worst idea I have ever seen
I just think would Everton vote out Liverpool, would West Ham vote out Spurs? Their own values would suffer massively from losing rivals and the biggest revenue draws in the league.
I think their fans would sooner keep the big 6 and give dogs abuse to their rivals about what a load of mercenaries they are.
This is a problem for the EPL bosses who cannot really risk going against the Super League as they’re fucked with it but completely fucked without the big 6.
Kick them out, call their bluff. They'll come crawling back.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
To carry a motion in the Premier League you need 14 votes. I know in recent times the big clubs have been getting annoyed with this balance of power such as when they were outvoted on extra substitutes in August. So technically those 14 could vote them out I reckon, though it’s pretty unthinkable.
It's far from unthinkable. This is existential for the EPL. The Superleague teams will dedicate themselves to the idiotic superleague, and the EPL will become secondary, utterly trashing the EPL spectacle and destroying broadcast value. Sky won't pay squillions any more
Meanwhile the "Founding Fathers" (yuk) will earn so much money (if it works) they will completely dominate the EPL even with their B teams, and they will continue to earn this money in perpetuity, as they cannot be relegated. They will buy all the best players and bench them if not needed
It is catastrophic for the EPL (but also for every other European domestic league). It is the worst idea I have ever seen
I just think would Everton vote out Liverpool, would West Ham vote out Spurs? Their own values would suffer massively from losing rivals and the biggest revenue draws in the league.
I think their fans would sooner keep the big 6 and give dogs abuse to their rivals about what a load of mercenaries they are.
This is a problem for the EPL bosses who cannot really risk going against the Super League as they’re fucked with it but completely fucked without the big 6.
It also only takes a couple of the 14 to be bought off with crumbs from the table. Words are being spoken about “funding the grassroots” and that implies a bribe to fellow clubs.
Comments
However, even then the international ban is a massive issue
It is quite tragic for football as a whole
It’s a bargaining chip.
A 12 team closed shop (whether or not with a mythical three additions and five guest teams per year) ain’t gonna happen.
1. The teams fold (perhaps because EUFA throws them a bone)
2. There is a breakaway league
Right now, 1 is more probable. But if they can go from the devious dozen to the treacherous twenty (and perhaps can land a ridiculous sum from Amazon for the streaming rights), then 2 happens.
If these are mid week games and they are still in the Premier League, there will be no time for the domestic cups.
They have their own website already
https://thesuperleague.com/
Slightly weak point, however
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
Total non- co-operation?
A season with no football of any kind to play in and huge contracts to honour?
Don't think it will happen, but it sure is a hardball tactic to be considered. Can they get a league starting in September?
1. Presumably clubs can play whoever they like.
2. Similarly, the Premier League etc..can choose which clubs they allow to play in their leagues.
3. However, is it legal for the Premier League to prevenit its players from playing elsewhere? Isn't that an illegal restraint of trade?
@JBurtTelegraph
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1m
Told all six Premier League clubs have quit the European Club Association along with the six other 'founding fathers' of the Super League.
The notion of "founding fathers" in a league, who cannot be relegated, makes me want to puke
Anything else is just going on tilt.
As were City even when they were in the third tier.
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
(You also believed the European vaccine ban story, despite my repeatedly warning you it was a nonsense)
Tying 2 stories together.
This only "works" if there is enough money involved to enable the teams to keep all the best players.
And it only "works" if it can be successful enough in the first couple of seasons to force FIFA/UEFA to the negotiating table. Because right now, FIFA/UEFA is just saying "non".
Organising a game of soccer or six isn't rocket science.
That makes it sound like they are getting it upfront.
The soccer itself, not so much.
For BT you’ve got a fatally wounded Champions League without the glamour or the biggest fanbases.
For Sky worst scenario is the big clubs are kicked out the Premier League. No matter how far they drive down the rights renewal they will lose subscribers by the bucketload.
For Sky the best case scenario is the big clubs remain but with a season like this one, the title and relegation are all but wrapped up early and there is no ‘top 4 race’ to hype and the season drifts to a meek conclusion.
In summary: if you’ve got shares in Sky or BT I’d think about selling them!
This does suggest it is a bluff
Spurs On Tap
@SpursOnTap
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3m
The Super League president Florentino Perez has informed all clubs that he wants the competition to start THIS August.
Karl-Erik Nilsson
Sándor Csányi
Luis Rubiales
Fernando Gomes
Michele Uva
Theodore Theodoridis
@spectatorindex
BREAKING: Twelve clubs forming Super League all quit the European Club Association"
All the more incentive to deny them weekend football.
Just kick them out.
Football is lucrative but it isn't THAT lucrative
12 teams getting €3.5bn upfront would be €40 billion
During a crushing pandemic, even J P Morgan is not going to throw FORTY BILLION EURO at a speculative new football tournament, which might easily fail
Do the clubs realise how despicable they have to be to make people go 'You know, FIFA and UEFA are right about this'?
Short term gain for long term damage to the game, what a bunch of fools. Just because a large slice of the pie wasn't enough, they want the whole damn thing.
Edit:
And as speculated it may well be a bluff. But things are still very wrong even if you are only bluffing when you say it. Don't expect gratitude for not shooting someone if you tell them afterwards you were only bluffing.
BUT
How can FIFA/EUFA exclude someone from the European Championships *before* they kick a ball in a Super League game?
If you're a player at Arsenal... (actually, do they have any English players?)... then even if you plan on never playing in a Super League game, you would still be a Super League player the moment that Arsenal pulled the plug.
Makes a mockery of the sport.
"These solidarity payments will be substantially higher than those generated by the current European competition and are expected to be in excess of €10 billion during the course of the initial commitment period of the Clubs.
https://www.skysports.com/football/live-blog/11661/12279732/european-super-league-plans-live-updates
Its might all be BS, but that's the statement they have put out.
What makes you think they couldn’t pull up the grass at White Hart Lane?
They aren't getting FORTY BILLION upfront
They managed it for over 100 years.
Timing-wise, it's quite clever by the devious dozen.
It isn't as Max said though split 15 ways, that per club, and they are estimating it will be 10bn per club over that period.
It sounds a crazy amount of money, what I was saying though is that is the carrot being waved. Barcelona are 1.4bn in the hole, somebody saying we will guarantee you 3.5bn, and you could potentially get 10bn over the course of a few seasons is big bucks....and would enable them to pay off the impending loans.
The combined income of the entire NFL in 2019 was 15 billion dollars.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/193457/total-league-revenue-of-the-nfl-since-2005/#:~:text=The statistic depicts the total,of 15.26 billion U.S. dollars.
Sport makes a lot of money, but it doesn't generate trillions
Who on earth has forty billion to give to Spurs, Arsenal, Juve, et al? On the off chance a weird new tournament takes off?
I mean Heysel. Getting all English clubs banned at the very moment the finest side in Europe were Everton?
You aren't liked for a reason.
18 group stage. 2 for playoffs. 4 for quarters and semis. Final.
Liverpool vs Real Madrid is exciting because it is rare, and there is a list of historic games between the sides that everyone remembers.
Once they play 6 times a year? Meh. And who will want to fly to Madrid 3 times a year on a Wednesday, followed by Milan the following week?
Who or what is financing this based on future earnings? Sell. Bury. Salt the ground.
Analogous to this.
Stan Collymore
@StanCollymore
·
14m
If the Premier League, UEFA, FIFA, FA, La Liga, Serie A now don't kick these fuckers out, as the Super League seems to intimate ( we'll play midweek alongside domestic leagues), then every one of those bodies are finished.
Let's see who's got the bottle to slug it out.
Mike Keegan
@MikeKeegan_DM
I understand that lead PR for ESL is former Conservative councillor and Downing Street Director of Comms Katie Perrior, who carried out the role during Theresa May's tenure and who is also a Times columnist.
Meanwhile, your weekend punter is going to be at Anfield, but watching Crewe Alexandria reserves.....
@Route1futbol
Two agents with knowledge of ongoings at PSG tell
@GFFN
that should The Super League be formalised, the Ligue 1 club will struggle to retain the majority of its key players. #PSG #UCL
So it could fuck Paris Saint Germain, which would provide amusing diversion, at least
I have no insight into how this will be perceived in Asia. But they do seem to have a history of not being particularly discerning when it comes to European football, and of being overly swayed by big names. It sounds plausible they could pull all the money they currently spend on the three national leagues in question plus the Champions' League, and pour it all into the new big shiny thing.
Huge sigh.
Running short of oxygen now the pandemic has abated.
I’m sure they’re remunerating her well because that’s a fucking tough gig
Meanwhile the "Founding Fathers" (yuk) will earn so much money (if it works) they will completely dominate the EPL even with their B teams, and they will continue to earn this money in perpetuity, as they cannot be relegated. They will buy all the best players and bench them if not needed
It is catastrophic for the EPL (but also for every other European domestic league). It is the worst idea I have ever seen
As soon as he is buried, out they come...
Bray Wanderers FC
@BrayWanderers
We’ve won the same amount of @premierleague titles as @SpursOfficial.
#europeansuperleague
I think their fans would sooner keep the big 6 and give dogs abuse to their rivals about what a load of mercenaries they are.
This is a problem for the EPL bosses who cannot really risk going against the Super League as they’re fucked with it but completely fucked without the big 6.