"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
To carry a motion in the Premier League you need 14 votes. I know in recent times the big clubs have been getting annoyed with this balance of power such as when they were outvoted on extra substitutes in August. So technically those 14 could vote them out I reckon, though it’s pretty unthinkable.
It's far from unthinkable. This is existential for the EPL. The Superleague teams will dedicate themselves to the idiotic superleague, and the EPL will become secondary, utterly trashing the EPL spectacle and destroying broadcast value. Sky won't pay squillions any more
Meanwhile the "Founding Fathers" (yuk) will earn so much money (if it works) they will completely dominate the EPL even with their B teams, and they will continue to earn this money in perpetuity, as they cannot be relegated. They will buy all the best players and bench them if not needed
It is catastrophic for the EPL (but also for every other European domestic league). It is the worst idea I have ever seen
I just think would Everton vote out Liverpool, would West Ham vote out Spurs? Their own values would suffer massively from losing rivals and the biggest revenue draws in the league.
I think their fans would sooner keep the big 6 and give dogs abuse to their rivals about what a load of mercenaries they are.
This is a problem for the EPL bosses who cannot really risk going against the Super League as they’re fucked with it but completely fucked without the big 6.
Kick them out, call their bluff. They'll come crawling back.
Wasn't that what the Football League thought?
This has all the hallmarks of being a terrible idea that risks being truly successful.
I don't support it at all but it could be very successful economically. But this is meant to be sport not economics. 😡👎
I wonder if they are going to do their own tv channel or if mouse tv might arrive with a massive cheque.
Sky and BT must be bricking it. At best, its going to cost a load of money to buy the rights and pray it works, at worst they pay loads of money and it is a bust or the mouse / Amazon beats them to it.
One way or another its hugely risky for their entire business models.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
To carry a motion in the Premier League you need 14 votes. I know in recent times the big clubs have been getting annoyed with this balance of power such as when they were outvoted on extra substitutes in August. So technically those 14 could vote them out I reckon, though it’s pretty unthinkable.
It's far from unthinkable. This is existential for the EPL. The Superleague teams will dedicate themselves to the idiotic superleague, and the EPL will become secondary, utterly trashing the EPL spectacle and destroying broadcast value. Sky won't pay squillions any more
Meanwhile the "Founding Fathers" (yuk) will earn so much money (if it works) they will completely dominate the EPL even with their B teams, and they will continue to earn this money in perpetuity, as they cannot be relegated. They will buy all the best players and bench them if not needed
It is catastrophic for the EPL (but also for every other European domestic league). It is the worst idea I have ever seen
I just think would Everton vote out Liverpool, would West Ham vote out Spurs? Their own values would suffer massively from losing rivals and the biggest revenue draws in the league.
I think their fans would sooner keep the big 6 and give dogs abuse to their rivals about what a load of mercenaries they are.
This is a problem for the EPL bosses who cannot really risk going against the Super League as they’re fucked with it but completely fucked without the big 6.
Kick them out, call their bluff. They'll come crawling back.
Wasn't that what the Football League thought?
This has all the hallmarks of being a terrible idea that risks being truly successful.
I don't support it at all but it could be very successful economically. But this is meant to be sport not economics. 😡👎
Yes and those in charge of these clubs understand economics a lot better than they do sport.
I wonder if they are going to do their own tv channel or if mouse tv might arrive with a massive cheque.
There was a lot of talk of in house TV but I’d be surprised as the nature of the global armchair fan suggests they might support a number of big teams in different Euro leagues and watch all the big ECL matches. I would not be surprised if The Mouse or possibly Amazon have been in negotiations for a while behind the scenes.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
I'm not an expert on football governance, but is it possible for the six to be expelled from the Premier League? Don't they form a blocking minority that would prevent their expulsion?
To carry a motion in the Premier League you need 14 votes. I know in recent times the big clubs have been getting annoyed with this balance of power such as when they were outvoted on extra substitutes in August. So technically those 14 could vote them out I reckon, though it’s pretty unthinkable.
It's far from unthinkable. This is existential for the EPL. The Superleague teams will dedicate themselves to the idiotic superleague, and the EPL will become secondary, utterly trashing the EPL spectacle and destroying broadcast value. Sky won't pay squillions any more
Meanwhile the "Founding Fathers" (yuk) will earn so much money (if it works) they will completely dominate the EPL even with their B teams, and they will continue to earn this money in perpetuity, as they cannot be relegated. They will buy all the best players and bench them if not needed
It is catastrophic for the EPL (but also for every other European domestic league). It is the worst idea I have ever seen
I just think would Everton vote out Liverpool, would West Ham vote out Spurs? Their own values would suffer massively from losing rivals and the biggest revenue draws in the league.
I think their fans would sooner keep the big 6 and give dogs abuse to their rivals about what a load of mercenaries they are.
This is a problem for the EPL bosses who cannot really risk going against the Super League as they’re fucked with it but completely fucked without the big 6.
UEFA is completely fucked by this, they will have some sway. FIFA I dunno, they might fold
This also pits Germany and France against England, Italy and Spain (even if most of England Italy and Spain loathes the idea)
What a mess. Again it reminds me of the rugby code split, which blights the sport even now, 120 years later
I wonder if they are going to do their own tv channel or if mouse tv might arrive with a massive cheque.
There was a lot of talk of in house TV but I’d be surprised as the nature of the global armchair fan suggests they might support a number of big teams in different Euro leagues and watch all the big ECL matches. I would not be surprised if The Mouse or possibly Amazon have been in negotiations for a while behind the scenes.
Mouse TV has done the MLS football streaming for a number of years and ontop of MLB, Pga Tour, WWE, also does Eurosports streaming.
I can see PSG being involved, it isn't like the French league is much more than a feeder league these days and I imagine their owners want to be playing the big European clubs. They didn't buy PSG to give two shits about games against Strasbourg, they bought it for bragging rights for beatng Barcelona et al.
One of the best things about football is the pyramid system. Even the breakaway Premier League kept the pyramid.
Any league without promotion/relegation is not a real league. Its just not football.
The thing is that part of what gets the Premier League ratings is that its competitive even when the league winner is known well in advance. City will win this year but who is going to get relegated? Can Liverpool get back into the Top 4 and qualify for the Champions League? Who else wins the race for the Top 4.
Eliminate all that intrigue by just having a league with no promotion, no relegation, no qualification - it will also have nothing to play for besides the club winning it. What will keep its interest? Terrible, terrible idea.
Superleague says they expect 3 more teams to join, as Founding Fathers (ugh)
Speculation? Who will they be?
It won't be any German or French side, I don't think
I reckon: Everton, Napoli, Benfica....
Rumours that it's Bayern, RB Leipzig, and Porto.
German clubs are run by fans. They won't agree (tho, ultimately this is a huge threat to Bayern, if the Superleague works, and the Superleague really needs at least one big German team)
Porto v possible.
Porto, Benfica, Napoli? Or Everton?
Superleague would like the idea of the Merseyside derby....
One of the best things about football is the pyramid system. Even the breakaway Premier League kept the pyramid.
Any league without promotion/relegation is not a real league. Its just not football.
The thing is that part of what gets the Premier League ratings is that its competitive even when the league winner is known well in advance. City will win this year but who is going to get relegated? Can Liverpool get back into the Top 4 and qualify for the Champions League? Who else wins the race for the Top 4.
Eliminate all that intrigue by just having a league with no promotion, no relegation, no qualification - it will also have nothing to play for besides the club winning it. What will keep its interest? Terrible, terrible idea.
Yes, it is the worst idea in history, apart from maybe communism. But they tried communism for 70 years...
One of the best things about football is the pyramid system. Even the breakaway Premier League kept the pyramid.
Any league without promotion/relegation is not a real league. Its just not football.
The thing is that part of what gets the Premier League ratings is that its competitive even when the league winner is known well in advance. City will win this year but who is going to get relegated? Can Liverpool get back into the Top 4 and qualify for the Champions League? Who else wins the race for the Top 4.
Eliminate all that intrigue by just having a league with no promotion, no relegation, no qualification - it will also have nothing to play for besides the club winning it. What will keep its interest? Terrible, terrible idea.
Yes, it is the worst idea in history, apart from maybe communism. But they tried communism for 70 years...
The 100......because T20 needs a copycat competition with silly rule changes.
One of the best things about football is the pyramid system. Even the breakaway Premier League kept the pyramid.
Any league without promotion/relegation is not a real league. Its just not football.
The thing is that part of what gets the Premier League ratings is that its competitive even when the league winner is known well in advance. City will win this year but who is going to get relegated? Can Liverpool get back into the Top 4 and qualify for the Champions League? Who else wins the race for the Top 4.
Eliminate all that intrigue by just having a league with no promotion, no relegation, no qualification - it will also have nothing to play for besides the club winning it. What will keep its interest? Terrible, terrible idea.
Yes, it is the worst idea in history, apart from maybe communism. But they tried communism for 70 years...
The 100......because T20 needs a copycat competition with silly rule changes.
Who can seriously imagine the likes of Baldwin - Chamberlain - Churchill - Attlee - Eden - Macmillan - Douglas -Home - Heath - Callaghan getting exercised over something as trivial and inconsequential as this?
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
That's not per season though, that's for 10 seasons split 15 ways. The numbers don't work at all.
"In addition, the competition will be built on a sustainable financial foundation with all Founding Clubs signing up to a spending framework. In exchange for their commitment, Founding Clubs will receive an amount of €3.5 billion solely to support their infrastructure investment plans and to offset the impact of the COVID pandemic."
That makes it sound like they are getting it upfront.
I think you've misread that. It doesn't say Founding Clubs will received €3.5bn each does it?
€3.5bn split between the clubs, €10bn between the clubs over the period covered, seems far more plausible.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
That's not per season though, that's for 10 seasons split 15 ways. The numbers don't work at all.
"In addition, the competition will be built on a sustainable financial foundation with all Founding Clubs signing up to a spending framework. In exchange for their commitment, Founding Clubs will receive an amount of €3.5 billion solely to support their infrastructure investment plans and to offset the impact of the COVID pandemic."
That makes it sound like they are getting it upfront.
I think you've misread that. It doesn't say Founding Clubs will received €3.5bn each does it?
€3.5bn split between the clubs, €10bn between the clubs over the period covered, seems far more plausible.
Sky sports....
"Super League organisers say each club participating in the competition will receive a payment of €3.5bn - that works out at just over £3bn."
Also think about, Man City not doing this for £250-300m. That isn't enough.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
That's not per season though, that's for 10 seasons split 15 ways. The numbers don't work at all.
"In addition, the competition will be built on a sustainable financial foundation with all Founding Clubs signing up to a spending framework. In exchange for their commitment, Founding Clubs will receive an amount of €3.5 billion solely to support their infrastructure investment plans and to offset the impact of the COVID pandemic."
That makes it sound like they are getting it upfront.
I think you've misread that. It doesn't say Founding Clubs will received €3.5bn each does it?
€3.5bn split between the clubs, €10bn between the clubs over the period covered, seems far more plausible.
Sky sports....
"Super League organisers say each club participating in the competition will receive a payment of €3.5bn - that works out at just over £3bn."
I think they've misread it too surely.
€3.5bn between the 12 clubs would be still an incredible amount of money but plausible. €3.5bn each simply isn't happening.
Seán Jones @seanjonesqc From the standard Premier League player T&Cs: 6. Obligations of the Club 6.1 The Club shall: 6.1.1 "observe the Rules, all of which (other than Club Rules) shall take precedence over the Club Rules. /1
Also think about, Man City not doing this for £250-300m. That isn't enough.
Why not?
This is being spoken about as a midweek competition in addition to the Premier League not instead of it. So instead of the Champions League.
€300mn per year would be more than Man City's entire broadcasting revenue from all sources combined. With then Premier League revenue still coming on top? That's a heck of a lot of cash.
Also think about, Man City not doing this for £250-300m. That isn't enough.
Why not?
This is being spoken about as a midweek competition in addition to the Premier League not instead of it. So instead of the Champions League.
€300mn per year would be more than Man City's entire broadcasting revenue from all sources combined. With then Premier League revenue still coming on top? That's a heck of a lot of cash.
They aren't saying it is 3.5bn a year, its that they are each being guaranteed 3.5bn over a "initial founding period".
Also think about, Man City not doing this for £250-300m. That isn't enough.
Why not?
This is being spoken about as a midweek competition in addition to the Premier League not instead of it. So instead of the Champions League.
€300mn per year would be more than Man City's entire broadcasting revenue from all sources combined. With then Premier League revenue still coming on top? That's a heck of a lot of cash.
They aren't saying it is 3.5bn a year, its that they are being guaranteed 3.5bn over a "initial founding period".
FFS, how do you "guarantee" FORTY BILLION EURO. They can't. It's crap
If the Superleague works, sure they might actually make this kind of insane money, but no one can guarantee it. The sum is based on "projected" income from a successful league, over several years
Alternatively the EPL, FA, UEFA et al get the bollocks to expel the teams, half the English clubs freak out, and it all falls apart
Also think about, Man City not doing this for £250-300m. That isn't enough.
Why not?
This is being spoken about as a midweek competition in addition to the Premier League not instead of it. So instead of the Champions League.
€300mn per year would be more than Man City's entire broadcasting revenue from all sources combined. With then Premier League revenue still coming on top? That's a heck of a lot of cash.
They aren't saying it is 3.5bn a year, its that they are each being guaranteed 3.5bn over a "initial founding period".
Yes with expectation of a minimum of €10bn over a 6 year period. That's a lot of moolah, more than the Champions League generates for the clubs.
From the Guardian link Leon shared: "clubs receive between €89m and €310m immediately for signing on the dotted line"
Also think about, Man City not doing this for £250-300m. That isn't enough.
Why not?
This is being spoken about as a midweek competition in addition to the Premier League not instead of it. So instead of the Champions League.
€300mn per year would be more than Man City's entire broadcasting revenue from all sources combined. With then Premier League revenue still coming on top? That's a heck of a lot of cash.
They aren't saying it is 3.5bn a year, its that they are being guaranteed 3.5bn over a "initial founding period".
FFS, how do you "guarantee" FORTY BILLION EURO. They can't. It's crap
If the Superleague works, sure they might actually make this kind of insane money, but no one can guarantee it. The sum is based on "projected" income from a successful league, over several years
Alternatively the EPL, FA, UEFA et al get the bollocks to expel the teams, half the English clubs freak out, and it all falls apart
I don't believe it, I am just saying that is what the statement says. It should be noted JP Morgan confirmed they have committed 5bn to get it up and running, and that lets say Mouse TV or Amazon have already signed an outline of a deal, they could be paying many many billions for tv rights.
Also think about, Man City not doing this for £250-300m. That isn't enough.
Why not?
This is being spoken about as a midweek competition in addition to the Premier League not instead of it. So instead of the Champions League.
€300mn per year would be more than Man City's entire broadcasting revenue from all sources combined. With then Premier League revenue still coming on top? That's a heck of a lot of cash.
They aren't saying it is 3.5bn a year, its that they are each being guaranteed 3.5bn over a "initial founding period".
Yes with expectation of a minimum of €10bn over a 6 year period. That's a lot of moolah, more than the Champions League generates for the clubs.
From the Guardian link Leon shared: "clubs receive between €89m and €310m immediately for signing on the dotted line"
€300mn is a lot of money, not a little bit.
I didn't say it was a little, I said it wasn't enough of for them to make such a dramatic move. That is why I can believe they have been promised £3.5bn over the coming founding years, which could be 5-10 years. Now I am sure such a "guarantee" is predicated on loads of factors e.g. that Mouse TV / Amazon have some outline of a tv deal and that they sign it.
If they have agreed in principle the global tv rights for 5-10 years, rather than country by country short term deals, that could eye watering amounts.
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
Also think about, Man City not doing this for £250-300m. That isn't enough.
Why not?
This is being spoken about as a midweek competition in addition to the Premier League not instead of it. So instead of the Champions League.
€300mn per year would be more than Man City's entire broadcasting revenue from all sources combined. With then Premier League revenue still coming on top? That's a heck of a lot of cash.
They aren't saying it is 3.5bn a year, its that they are being guaranteed 3.5bn over a "initial founding period".
FFS, how do you "guarantee" FORTY BILLION EURO. They can't. It's crap
If the Superleague works, sure they might actually make this kind of insane money, but no one can guarantee it. The sum is based on "projected" income from a successful league, over several years
Alternatively the EPL, FA, UEFA et al get the bollocks to expel the teams, half the English clubs freak out, and it all falls apart
I don't believe it, I am just saying that is what the statement says. It should be noted JP Morgan confirmed they have committed 5bn to get it up and running, and that lets say Mouse TV or Amazon have already signed an outline of a deal, they could be paying many many billions for tv rights.
Indeed which makes €3.5bn between the clubs up-front very viable - and that is a ton of cash. Again €300mn is not just more than City get from the Champions League, its more than they get from all broadcast deals in all competitions combined. Its more than Liverpool made from winning the Champions League.
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
No problem with a new league so long as it remains a pyramid with promotion and relegation earnt on the field.
If clubs can't be promoted or relegated then its no longer a pyramid.
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
No problem with a new league so long as it remains a pyramid with promotion and relegation earnt on the field.
If clubs can't be promoted or relegated then its no longer a pyramid.
Literally the whole point of this is to remove the pyramid and the financial risk of regulation and/or not qualifying for the "Champions League".
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
No problem with a new league so long as it remains a pyramid with promotion and relegation earnt on the field.
If clubs can't be promoted or relegated then its no longer a pyramid.
Literally the whole point of this is to remove the pyramid and the financial risk of regulation and/or not qualifying for the "Champions League".
It's not the sole point of it.
There are some merits to having a breakaway League. Getting it out of the hands of UEFA (like the PL founding itself), getting more quality games and fewer versus UnheardOfFC from minor European leagues etc. There's some kernels of positives there.
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
No problem with a new league so long as it remains a pyramid with promotion and relegation earnt on the field.
If clubs can't be promoted or relegated then its no longer a pyramid.
Literally the whole point of this is to remove the pyramid and the financial risk of regulation and/or not qualifying for the "Champions League".
So we can have the Man City Mavens vs the Real Madrid Kings every few weeks....
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
No problem with a new league so long as it remains a pyramid with promotion and relegation earnt on the field.
If clubs can't be promoted or relegated then its no longer a pyramid.
Literally the whole point of this is to remove the pyramid and the financial risk of regulation and/or not qualifying for the "Champions League".
It's not the sole point of it.
There are some merits to having a breakaway League. Getting it out of the hands of UEFA (like the PL founding itself), getting more quality games and fewer versus UnheardOfFC from minor European leagues etc. There's some kernels of positives there.
But a closed shop proposal drowns them all out.
With all due respect I think you're being very naive here.
Either that or trying to justify to yourself why you can support Liverpool joining such a monstrosity.
I am sure it isn't a coincidence that below the Real Madrid president as head of the ESL, the 3 American owners of English clubs in the competition are in charge.
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
No problem with a new league so long as it remains a pyramid with promotion and relegation earnt on the field.
If clubs can't be promoted or relegated then its no longer a pyramid.
Literally the whole point of this is to remove the pyramid and the financial risk of regulation and/or not qualifying for the "Champions League".
It's not the sole point of it.
There are some merits to having a breakaway League. Getting it out of the hands of UEFA (like the PL founding itself), getting more quality games and fewer versus UnheardOfFC from minor European leagues etc. There's some kernels of positives there.
But a closed shop proposal drowns them all out.
With all due respect I think you're being very naive here.
Either that or trying to justify to yourself why you can support Liverpool joining such a monstrosity.
I don't support it. I said I oppose it so you're being a bit paranoid there.
If it was based upon on the field qualification then I could support it. But it isn't.
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
No problem with a new league so long as it remains a pyramid with promotion and relegation earnt on the field.
If clubs can't be promoted or relegated then its no longer a pyramid.
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
Yes, I think you are spot on.
Plan as announced is to also play in domestic leagues.
But if they get thrown out of domestic leagues then the ESL will need to be standalone - like NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL. They all have approx 28 to 32 teams, so I expect the ESL would be the same. That will mean another 2 to 4 English teams - likely Everton, West Ham etc. Maybe Celtic and Rangers then get in. Plus more teams across Europe.
The PL without its best 8 to 10 teams is then worth little more than the current EFL - revenues would literally fall 80% to 90%. They would be completely blown out of the water.
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
Yes, I think you are spot on.
Plan as announced is to also play in domestic leagues.
But if they get thrown out of domestic leagues then the ESL will need to be standalone - like NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL. They all have approx 28 to 32 teams, so I expect the ESL would be the same. That will mean another 2 to 4 English teams - likely Everton, West Ham etc. Maybe Celtic and Rangers then get in. Plus more teams across Europe.
The PL without its best 8 to 10 teams is then worth little more than the current EFL - revenues would literally fall 80% to 90%. They would be completely blown out of the water.
If it gets momentum - and the sums involved are so hard that it might very well do so - then the FOMO for some teams is going to be extraordinary.
If you are Celtic or Rangers, you know that you're either in at the start... or you're never going to be in at all. If it looks like it might work, then you have to ask to join.
The same maths are going to matter for Porto, Sporting Lisbon and Benfica.
I think this is going to fail. The leagues and UEFA should ban them with immediate effect (I assume we’ve all piled in on PSG for the Champions League).
Even if they chicken out - I don’t think they can now - I’m done with Arsenal. I’m so angry about this.
As they want to run it in tandem with the national leagues as a midweek competition I wonder if a bit of heat might be taken out of this? It's not great to be honest but maybe we could have this alongside the PL.
If you look at cricket, the IPL is an utter phenomenon: the biggest competition in the world and with a bit of give and take, national selectors have worked around it. I don't think anyone would deny that the IPL is having an incredible impact on world cricket.
I loathe the greed at the top of football but some of this has been self-induced. The Champions League has descended into something of a farce with a horrible new proposed format. The Europa League is a poor second rate competition with one glittering prize (CL qualification), the FA Cup is meaningless and the League Cup even more so. Those are really sad statements because they used to be great comps. Alongside all of this, both FIFA and UEFA have demonstrated a propensity to corruption and cack-handed new rules like VAR.
The fact is that every big club knows it's the Champions League matches which are the big ones and yet the CL has become a lesser competition.
What does make me really sad is that the smaller clubs used to have a great time of it in the League Cup and the FA Cup. They were special days. But that's 30 or 40 years ago now and those days are gone.
If they could get away with running this midweek as proposed alongside the national leagues I'd be pro but somehow I don't think there's going to be a cordial solution like that.
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
No problem with a new league so long as it remains a pyramid with promotion and relegation earnt on the field.
If clubs can't be promoted or relegated then its no longer a pyramid.
Well as I understand it, there will be promotion and relegation but only for c. 5 clubs. The founding fathers will be immune. Which isn't great. But it's not the worst thing. You still have 5 clubs who can gain promotion to the following season's leagues.
I wonder if the wall of condemnation will start to break.
But I still can't see FIFA / UEFA / PL / EFL / FA being conciliar. They're arrogant as hell and part of football's problem, not solution.
The rot set in with tv. There was something amazing about 3pm on a Saturday and who can forget that thrill of 'When Saturday Comes'?
That all changed with live televised matches outside of the golden time.
I'm going to stick my neck out here: I don't think this Super League is a bad idea. Providing they can still play in their respective national leagues. It will render the FA and League Cups even more meaningless but that's a process which began a long time ago to be honest.
The rot set in with tv. There was something amazing about 3pm on a Saturday and who can forget that thrill of 'When Saturday Comes'?
That all changed with live televised matches outside of the golden time.
I'm going to stick my neck out here: I don't think this Super League is a bad idea. Providing they can still play in their respective national leagues. It will render the FA and League Cups even more meaningless but that's a process which began a long time ago to be honest.
Email I've sent to Arsenal this morning:
I appreciate that you're not personally responsible for this disgraceful scheme, but I sincerely hope Arsenal FC and the rest of the clubs involved go bust.
Even if they chicken out of this I am done with Arsenal. I have two season tickets - you won't be getting another penny from me.
Not really a football fan but this may be aimed at the Far East market - Asian & Chinese audiences/fan bases are enormous - you'll end up with a lot of midday fixtures.....
A secret deal changing football forever. Sounds familiar...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zihSYqiUDsE
"The Premier League is now one of the richest and most watched sports leagues in the world, but after violence and disaster had ruined the game, how did a secret deal change football forever? An in depth look at the conditions that led to the Premier League being formed from a breakaway from the Football League, and the effect that it had on English and world football."
Off-topic, but have woken up with an answer to the referendum / constitution question. Johnson should hold the referendum in England. Why should the English - who are Britain when you think about it - have no parliament of their own, have to put up with endless complaints from provincial loons who take English money and whine, and have the Brexit prize threatened by stupid complaints about borders down the Irish Sea.
So - a referendum on English supremacy. England uber alles. Should the UK be redefined as England, letting the Scotch and the Irish and the Welsh do whatever it is they're complaining about? England keeps their money, go and sod off. Problem solved, and the Tories complete their evolution away from a pretence of being unionist to being English populists.
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
No problem with a new league so long as it remains a pyramid with promotion and relegation earnt on the field.
If clubs can't be promoted or relegated then its no longer a pyramid.
Well as I understand it, there will be promotion and relegation but only for c. 5 clubs. The founding fathers will be immune. Which isn't great. But it's not the worst thing. You still have 5 clubs who can gain promotion to the following season's leagues.
I wonder if the wall of condemnation will start to break.
But I still can't see FIFA / UEFA / PL / EFL / FA being conciliar. They're arrogant as hell and part of football's problem, not solution.
It's not about merit though is it ? The idea of having Spuds and Arsenal and not Leicester or more to the point Bayern in it sees to that. Ajax, Porto, PSV, Celtic - big clubs in small leagues with history look like they're completely frozen out as things stand. The whole thing looks like it's based on shirt sales in Shanghai instead of any sort of football merit
Off-topic, but have woken up with an answer to the referendum / constitution question. Johnson should hold the referendum in England. Why should the English - who are Britain when you think about it - have no parliament of their own, have to put up with endless complaints from provincial loons who take English money and whine, and have the Brexit prize threatened by stupid complaints about borders down the Irish Sea.
So - a referendum on English supremacy. England uber alles. Should the UK be redefined as England, letting the Scotch and the Irish and the Welsh do whatever it is they're complaining about? England keeps their money, go and sod off. Problem solved, and the Tories complete their evolution away from a pretence of being unionist to being English populists.
Predictably disgusting proposal, and what a surprise that the greedy six are involved.
Regardless of anything else it completely devalues the EPL even if it went ahead on the terms in which it is being laid out. If the 'founding fathers' qualify automatically, they no longer have to worry about EPL performance. And of course the money they take down from this would render the EPL even more uncompetitive as their B teams would be so far ahead of everyone else.
It will happen, and I think the EPL and UEFA are powerless to stop it. So let them go and perform in their global freak show for the Asian and US audience and kick them out of domestic football.
At home, the football bubble will burst but we will hopefully reset the domestic competition, impose some level playing field rules and we will have a competition that is fun and competitive and less worried about chasing shirt sales in Asia.
If I understand correctly, would a seventh English club joining allow a blocking vote to form under EPL rules, meaning they could in fact not be thrown out of the competition?
Also off-topic, but Johnson refusing to put India in the red zone cos he's trying to do a visit and persuade them a trade deal without migration is in India's interests seems like a Bad Thing. We know the threat from new variants to our vaccination programme. Unlocking and allowing people to gather and praise Him is more important than anything, yet he is ignoring the blindingly obvious again.
Off-topic, but have woken up with an answer to the referendum / constitution question. Johnson should hold the referendum in England. Why should the English - who are Britain when you think about it - have no parliament of their own, have to put up with endless complaints from provincial loons who take English money and whine, and have the Brexit prize threatened by stupid complaints about borders down the Irish Sea.
So - a referendum on English supremacy. England uber alles. Should the UK be redefined as England, letting the Scotch and the Irish and the Welsh do whatever it is they're complaining about? England keeps their money, go and sod off. Problem solved, and the Tories complete their evolution away from a pretence of being unionist to being English populists.
Go back to sleep....
Oh I know its daft at first glance. But I think it would be popular in England. Spell out to people how much of THEIR MONEY is gifted to the Scots who then complain despite free university and prescriptions. How much of a threat the Irish are to Brexit. The cash flow into Wales. They all have a parliament, England doesn't. Time to Take Back Control of our money and our Brexit and tell the whiners where to get off.
The rot set in with tv. There was something amazing about 3pm on a Saturday and who can forget that thrill of 'When Saturday Comes'?
That all changed with live televised matches outside of the golden time.
I'm going to stick my neck out here: I don't think this Super League is a bad idea. Providing they can still play in their respective national leagues. It will render the FA and League Cups even more meaningless but that's a process which began a long time ago to be honest.
I'd add when the marketing men got involved. The First Division wasn't, you know, exclusive enough. And the Championship was for....what, second degree champions?
Ooh, so it looks like the breakaway football league is on.
The statements from the big clubs appear to go a lot further than simply trying to bluff UEFA into reformatting the CL, and they must have war-gamed the national leagues kicking out the clubs involved and banning players from international service. They're not just burning their bridges, they poured petrol on them first just to make sure they got properly burned though.
Yes, the local fan base is going to be furious, but if there's billion-currency-unit cheques being handed out it's going to be happening.
Americans and Asians don't care for the local links and competition history, if Liverpool play Real Madrid and Manchester City play Barcelona twice a year they'll be watching, and buying shirts. They also won't care if MC play half of their 'home' games in Abu Dhabi, or Liverpool play in Boston.
The rot set in with tv. There was something amazing about 3pm on a Saturday and who can forget that thrill of 'When Saturday Comes'?
That all changed with live televised matches outside of the golden time.
I'm going to stick my neck out here: I don't think this Super League is a bad idea. Providing they can still play in their respective national leagues. It will render the FA and League Cups even more meaningless but that's a process which began a long time ago to be honest.
I'd add when the marketing men got involved. The First Division wasn't, you know, exclusive enough. And the Championship was for....what, second degree champions?
Calling the Third Division "League One" took some brass balls from the marketing team.
"Games will be played mid-week, and all clubs will remain in their domestic leagues."
My sense is that the threat of being expelled from the EPL will make English clubs back down, they are not as financially desperate as the Spaniards
But who knows. Popcorn!
The only bluffs that are worthy of the name are detailed and coordinated.
Anything else is just going on tilt.
You're wrong, I believe. This is not a bluff. This is a very definite attempt to break away, and guarantee income - and they must have gamed the possibility of domestic leagues expelling them
Just don't know if it will succeed. Will Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool really quit English football with all its great history?
3.5bn guaranteed, 10bn been said to be the likely income....per club...that's a huge carrot.
That's not per season though, that's for 10 seasons split 15 ways. The numbers don't work at all.
"In addition, the competition will be built on a sustainable financial foundation with all Founding Clubs signing up to a spending framework. In exchange for their commitment, Founding Clubs will receive an amount of €3.5 billion solely to support their infrastructure investment plans and to offset the impact of the COVID pandemic."
That makes it sound like they are getting it upfront.
Off-topic, but have woken up with an answer to the referendum / constitution question. Johnson should hold the referendum in England. Why should the English - who are Britain when you think about it - have no parliament of their own, have to put up with endless complaints from provincial loons who take English money and whine, and have the Brexit prize threatened by stupid complaints about borders down the Irish Sea.
So - a referendum on English supremacy. England uber alles. Should the UK be redefined as England, letting the Scotch and the Irish and the Welsh do whatever it is they're complaining about? England keeps their money, go and sod off. Problem solved, and the Tories complete their evolution away from a pretence of being unionist to being English populists.
Go back to sleep....
Oh I know its daft at first glance. But I think it would be popular in England. Spell out to people how much of THEIR MONEY is gifted to the Scots who then complain despite free university and prescriptions. How much of a threat the Irish are to Brexit. The cash flow into Wales. They all have a parliament, England doesn't. Time to Take Back Control of our money and our Brexit and tell the whiners where to get off.
Glad to see the move to Scotland has given you a different perspective.
Not quite sure about the zealotry of the convert, however....
If I understand correctly, would a seventh English club joining allow a blocking vote to form under EPL rules, meaning they could in fact not be thrown out of the competition?
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
Yes, I think you are spot on.
Plan as announced is to also play in domestic leagues.
But if they get thrown out of domestic leagues then the ESL will need to be standalone - like NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL. They all have approx 28 to 32 teams, so I expect the ESL would be the same. That will mean another 2 to 4 English teams - likely Everton, West Ham etc. Maybe Celtic and Rangers then get in. Plus more teams across Europe.
The PL without its best 8 to 10 teams is then worth little more than the current EFL - revenues would literally fall 80% to 90%. They would be completely blown out of the water.
US sport (At least NFL) has operated franchises from day dot though. There's also the draft system and salary caps (They're enormous but they still have an effect). European football is a different beast
Ooh, so it looks like the breakaway football league is on.
The statements from the big clubs appear to go a lot further than simply trying to bluff UEFA into reformatting the CL, and they must have war-gamed the national leagues kicking out the clubs involved and banning players from international service. They're not just burning their bridges, they poured petrol on them first just to make sure they got properly burned though.
Yes, the local fan base is going to be furious, but if there's billion-currency-unit cheques being handed out it's going to be happening.
Americans and Asians don't care for the local links and competition history, if Liverpool play Real Madrid and Manchester City play Barcelona twice a year they'll be watching, and buying shirts. They also won't care if MC play half of their 'home' games in Abu Dhabi, or Liverpool play in Boston.
A sad day for football.
It will fall apart. One of the "founding fathers" will be persuaded back off the ledge, then another, then you will be left with perhaps half a dozen still defending the idea and their supremacy over UEFA.
Hopefully United back down leaving Citeh to be excluded from the Premier League.
Off-topic, but have woken up with an answer to the referendum / constitution question. Johnson should hold the referendum in England. Why should the English - who are Britain when you think about it - have no parliament of their own, have to put up with endless complaints from provincial loons who take English money and whine, and have the Brexit prize threatened by stupid complaints about borders down the Irish Sea.
So - a referendum on English supremacy. England uber alles. Should the UK be redefined as England, letting the Scotch and the Irish and the Welsh do whatever it is they're complaining about? England keeps their money, go and sod off. Problem solved, and the Tories complete their evolution away from a pretence of being unionist to being English populists.
Go back to sleep....
Oh I know its daft at first glance. But I think it would be popular in England. Spell out to people how much of THEIR MONEY is gifted to the Scots who then complain despite free university and prescriptions. How much of a threat the Irish are to Brexit. The cash flow into Wales. They all have a parliament, England doesn't. Time to Take Back Control of our money and our Brexit and tell the whiners where to get off.
An English Parliament will also do the job, and simultaneously preserve the Union.
Not the most inspiring of subjects, AFAIC; I'm not by any means as obsessed with the game as some, but it does seem somewhat ironic that at a time when the state is hell-bent on reducing it's ties with the rest of Europe, one sport is equally enthusiastic about increasing them!
Biut we had a good weekend, with a visit from Eldest Granddaughter, and a good walk yesterday; we remain [puzzled and intrigued by Line of Duty and Mrs Blue-tit has laid another egg.
Predictably disgusting proposal, and what a surprise that the greedy six are involved.
Regardless of anything else it completely devalues the EPL even if it went ahead on the terms in which it is being laid out. If the 'founding fathers' qualify automatically, they no longer have to worry about EPL performance. And of course the money they take down from this would render the EPL even more uncompetitive as their B teams would be so far ahead of everyone else.
It will happen, and I think the EPL and UEFA are powerless to stop it. So let them go and perform in their global freak show for the Asian and US audience and kick them out of domestic football.
At home, the football bubble will burst but we will hopefully reset the domestic competition, impose some level playing field rules and we will have a competition that is fun and competitive and less worried about chasing shirt sales in Asia.
Sad day but it's been coming.
I am very opposed to this having been a Man Utd supporter since 1955 and a season ticket holder until recently.
My main concern is no matter the threats from UEFA and FIFA of banning Super League players from their competitions I am not at all certain how it would stand up in law on restriction of trade
My hope is that common sense will prevail and the Super League is a tool for getting concessions out of UEFA
Mr. JohnL, actually, Norris is the chap who impressed me most. The other top chaps all made mistakes (Verstappen spun behind the safety car, Hamilton made a rare error [was amused by those trying to blame Russell for that], Leclerc spun on the formation lap, Sainz visited the gravel traps a few times).
Predictably disgusting proposal, and what a surprise that the greedy six are involved.
Regardless of anything else it completely devalues the EPL even if it went ahead on the terms in which it is being laid out. If the 'founding fathers' qualify automatically, they no longer have to worry about EPL performance. And of course the money they take down from this would render the EPL even more uncompetitive as their B teams would be so far ahead of everyone else.
It will happen, and I think the EPL and UEFA are powerless to stop it. So let them go and perform in their global freak show for the Asian and US audience and kick them out of domestic football.
At home, the football bubble will burst but we will hopefully reset the domestic competition, impose some level playing field rules and we will have a competition that is fun and competitive and less worried about chasing shirt sales in Asia.
Sad day but it's been coming.
I am very opposed to this having been a Man Utd supporter since 1955 and a season ticket holder until recently.
My main concern is no matter the threats from UEFA and FIFA of banning Super League players from their competitions I am not at all certain how it would stand up in law on restriction of trade
My hope is that common sense will prevail and the Super League is a tool for getting concessions out of UEFA
On that last point, I think they’ve gone past that. Even if they back down I won’t be going to Arsenal again.
Off-topic, but have woken up with an answer to the referendum / constitution question. Johnson should hold the referendum in England. Why should the English - who are Britain when you think about it - have no parliament of their own, have to put up with endless complaints from provincial loons who take English money and whine, and have the Brexit prize threatened by stupid complaints about borders down the Irish Sea.
So - a referendum on English supremacy. England uber alles. Should the UK be redefined as England, letting the Scotch and the Irish and the Welsh do whatever it is they're complaining about? England keeps their money, go and sod off. Problem solved, and the Tories complete their evolution away from a pretence of being unionist to being English populists.
Go back to sleep....
Oh I know its daft at first glance. But I think it would be popular in England. Spell out to people how much of THEIR MONEY is gifted to the Scots who then complain despite free university and prescriptions. How much of a threat the Irish are to Brexit. The cash flow into Wales. They all have a parliament, England doesn't. Time to Take Back Control of our money and our Brexit and tell the whiners where to get off.
An English Parliament will also do the job, and simultaneously preserve the Union.
The union doesn't want to be preserved. Scotland is teetering on the edge. Norniron has already been semi-detached. Only a wholesale reimagining of the UK will do the job now, and Johnson is more likely to go down the English nationalism route than Federalism. So the Union falls apart anyway.
What does England have to fear? Stops pissing money away to the provinces, gets rid of the Irish Brexit threat, preserves a Tory majority that is unchallengeable. You can't say "but Johnson is a Unionist" because he isn't - the treatment of NI demonstrates that.
The big question will be Wales. Easy to throw off NI and Scotland with their separate legal systems and currencies. Wales - as an annexed part of England since 1284 - will need a new currency and new legal system. Does England try and keep her? Does Wales want to stay with England?
Whether or not Johnson pulls the plug or not, the union is done. These questions are coming. Denial isn't an answer.
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
No problem with a new league so long as it remains a pyramid with promotion and relegation earnt on the field.
If clubs can't be promoted or relegated then its no longer a pyramid.
Well as I understand it, there will be promotion and relegation but only for c. 5 clubs. The founding fathers will be immune. Which isn't great. But it's not the worst thing. You still have 5 clubs who can gain promotion to the following season's leagues.
I wonder if the wall of condemnation will start to break.
But I still can't see FIFA / UEFA / PL / EFL / FA being conciliar. They're arrogant as hell and part of football's problem, not solution.
It's not about merit though is it ? The idea of having Spuds and Arsenal and not Leicester or more to the point Bayern in it sees to that. Ajax, Porto, PSV, Celtic - big clubs in small leagues with history look like they're completely frozen out as things stand. The whole thing looks like it's based on shirt sales in Shanghai instead of any sort of football merit
That's not actually true, they're not 'completely frozen out'. As it stands c. 15 founding clubs are immune from relegation but another 5 each season gain entry on merit, which could mean Leicester, Celtic etc.
And it remains to be seen if any of the German or French clubs are going to be included. There are still 3 more to announce.
I'm not particularly against this providing the clubs can still play in their national leagues at the weekends. There's very little chance of the respective organisations permitting that though. They're not the types to think sensibly and be accommodating. FIFA and UEFA are very corrupt. The PL, FA and EFL aren't a lot better to be honest.
Money always talks. It's a market forces thing and I defy anyone to tell me that FIFA and UEFA have always acted in the interests of the free market or indeed of fans?
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
Yes, I think you are spot on.
Plan as announced is to also play in domestic leagues.
But if they get thrown out of domestic leagues then the ESL will need to be standalone - like NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL. They all have approx 28 to 32 teams, so I expect the ESL would be the same. That will mean another 2 to 4 English teams - likely Everton, West Ham etc. Maybe Celtic and Rangers then get in. Plus more teams across Europe.
The PL without its best 8 to 10 teams is then worth little more than the current EFL - revenues would literally fall 80% to 90%. They would be completely blown out of the water.
US sport (At least NFL) has operated franchises from day dot though. There's also the draft system and salary caps (They're enormous but they still have an effect). European football is a different beast
The best such comment was from Robert up thread, that US sports leagues are all very insular, playing only among themselves in a single competition over the year.
Football is very different, with the same teams playing in multiple competitions and with international competition on top.
I'm still not sure how much the Americans running the big clubs really understand that, along with the history of the more successful clubs being tied to the existing European Cup and Premier League competitions.
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
No problem with a new league so long as it remains a pyramid with promotion and relegation earnt on the field.
If clubs can't be promoted or relegated then its no longer a pyramid.
Well as I understand it, there will be promotion and relegation but only for c. 5 clubs. The founding fathers will be immune. Which isn't great. But it's not the worst thing. You still have 5 clubs who can gain promotion to the following season's leagues.
I wonder if the wall of condemnation will start to break.
But I still can't see FIFA / UEFA / PL / EFL / FA being conciliar. They're arrogant as hell and part of football's problem, not solution.
It's not about merit though is it ? The idea of having Spuds and Arsenal and not Leicester or more to the point Bayern in it sees to that. Ajax, Porto, PSV, Celtic - big clubs in small leagues with history look like they're completely frozen out as things stand. The whole thing looks like it's based on shirt sales in Shanghai instead of any sort of football merit
That's not actually true, they're not 'completely frozen out'. As it stands c. 15 founding clubs are immune from relegation but another 5 each season gain entry on merit, which could mean Leicester, Celtic etc.
And it remains to be seen if any of the German or French clubs are going to be included. There are still 3 more to announce.
I'm not particularly against this providing the clubs can still play in their national leagues at the weekends. There's very little chance of the respective organisations permitting that though. They're not the types to think sensibly and be accommodating. FIFA and UEFA are very corrupt. The PL, FA and EFL aren't a lot better to be honest.
Money always talks. It's a market forces thing and I defy anyone to tell me that FIFA and UEFA have always acted in the interests of the free market or indeed of fans?
15 clubs including Prem mid table clubs immune from relegation ? Farcical
Off-topic, but have woken up with an answer to the referendum / constitution question. Johnson should hold the referendum in England. Why should the English - who are Britain when you think about it - have no parliament of their own, have to put up with endless complaints from provincial loons who take English money and whine, and have the Brexit prize threatened by stupid complaints about borders down the Irish Sea.
So - a referendum on English supremacy. England uber alles. Should the UK be redefined as England, letting the Scotch and the Irish and the Welsh do whatever it is they're complaining about? England keeps their money, go and sod off. Problem solved, and the Tories complete their evolution away from a pretence of being unionist to being English populists.
Go back to sleep....
Oh I know its daft at first glance. But I think it would be popular in England. Spell out to people how much of THEIR MONEY is gifted to the Scots who then complain despite free university and prescriptions. How much of a threat the Irish are to Brexit. The cash flow into Wales. They all have a parliament, England doesn't. Time to Take Back Control of our money and our Brexit and tell the whiners where to get off.
In a sense that is already the problem. There are too many politicians who, perhaps unwittingly, already speak in these terms, using "British" to mean English rather than English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish. Or who have or will undo the slight overrepresentation of the smaller nations in Parliament for the sake of party advantage, careless of its effects on the union.
Predictably disgusting proposal, and what a surprise that the greedy six are involved.
Regardless of anything else it completely devalues the EPL even if it went ahead on the terms in which it is being laid out. If the 'founding fathers' qualify automatically, they no longer have to worry about EPL performance. And of course the money they take down from this would render the EPL even more uncompetitive as their B teams would be so far ahead of everyone else.
It will happen, and I think the EPL and UEFA are powerless to stop it. So let them go and perform in their global freak show for the Asian and US audience and kick them out of domestic football.
At home, the football bubble will burst but we will hopefully reset the domestic competition, impose some level playing field rules and we will have a competition that is fun and competitive and less worried about chasing shirt sales in Asia.
Sad day but it's been coming.
I am very opposed to this having been a Man Utd supporter since 1955 and a season ticket holder until recently.
My main concern is no matter the threats from UEFA and FIFA of banning Super League players from their competitions I am not at all certain how it would stand up in law on restriction of trade
My hope is that common sense will prevail and the Super League is a tool for getting concessions out of UEFA
On that last point, I think they’ve gone past that. Even if they back down I won’t be going to Arsenal again.
Which is fine and noble but I promise you that others will fill your place once Arsenal vs Real Madrid is on the fixture list twice a season. Not to mention the European Super League Arsenal vs Tottenham.
Predictably disgusting proposal, and what a surprise that the greedy six are involved.
Regardless of anything else it completely devalues the EPL even if it went ahead on the terms in which it is being laid out. If the 'founding fathers' qualify automatically, they no longer have to worry about EPL performance. And of course the money they take down from this would render the EPL even more uncompetitive as their B teams would be so far ahead of everyone else.
It will happen, and I think the EPL and UEFA are powerless to stop it. So let them go and perform in their global freak show for the Asian and US audience and kick them out of domestic football.
At home, the football bubble will burst but we will hopefully reset the domestic competition, impose some level playing field rules and we will have a competition that is fun and competitive and less worried about chasing shirt sales in Asia.
Sad day but it's been coming.
I am very opposed to this having been a Man Utd supporter since 1955 and a season ticket holder until recently.
My main concern is no matter the threats from UEFA and FIFA of banning Super League players from their competitions I am not at all certain how it would stand up in law on restriction of trade
My hope is that common sense will prevail and the Super League is a tool for getting concessions out of UEFA
On that last point, I think they’ve gone past that. Even if they back down I won’t be going to Arsenal again.
It does leave a nasty taste but I cannot give up a lifetime of support but I will not pay a penny more to watch the Super League on tv
Mind you I would not be surprised for someone like Amazon to screen the matches free
And I expect BT sports are in crisis as they televise European matches at present
Predictably disgusting proposal, and what a surprise that the greedy six are involved.
Regardless of anything else it completely devalues the EPL even if it went ahead on the terms in which it is being laid out. If the 'founding fathers' qualify automatically, they no longer have to worry about EPL performance. And of course the money they take down from this would render the EPL even more uncompetitive as their B teams would be so far ahead of everyone else.
It will happen, and I think the EPL and UEFA are powerless to stop it. So let them go and perform in their global freak show for the Asian and US audience and kick them out of domestic football.
At home, the football bubble will burst but we will hopefully reset the domestic competition, impose some level playing field rules and we will have a competition that is fun and competitive and less worried about chasing shirt sales in Asia.
Sad day but it's been coming.
I am very opposed to this having been a Man Utd supporter since 1955 and a season ticket holder until recently.
My main concern is no matter the threats from UEFA and FIFA of banning Super League players from their competitions I am not at all certain how it would stand up in law on restriction of trade
My hope is that common sense will prevail and the Super League is a tool for getting concessions out of UEFA
On that last point, I think they’ve gone past that. Even if they back down I won’t be going to Arsenal again.
Which is fine and noble but I promise you that others will fill your place once Arsenal vs Real Madrid is on the fixture list twice a season. Not to mention the European Super League Arsenal vs Tottenham.
Their starter for 10 should be to drop all references to the "working class".
Healey argues for a focus on what he calls the “real middle” – people who earn around the median British wage of just under £25,000 – saying these should be Labour’s “core constituency”.
The "real middle" do not consider themselves to be the working class...
Predictably disgusting proposal, and what a surprise that the greedy six are involved.
Regardless of anything else it completely devalues the EPL even if it went ahead on the terms in which it is being laid out. If the 'founding fathers' qualify automatically, they no longer have to worry about EPL performance. And of course the money they take down from this would render the EPL even more uncompetitive as their B teams would be so far ahead of everyone else.
It will happen, and I think the EPL and UEFA are powerless to stop it. So let them go and perform in their global freak show for the Asian and US audience and kick them out of domestic football.
At home, the football bubble will burst but we will hopefully reset the domestic competition, impose some level playing field rules and we will have a competition that is fun and competitive and less worried about chasing shirt sales in Asia.
Sad day but it's been coming.
I am very opposed to this having been a Man Utd supporter since 1955 and a season ticket holder until recently.
My main concern is no matter the threats from UEFA and FIFA of banning Super League players from their competitions I am not at all certain how it would stand up in law on restriction of trade
My hope is that common sense will prevail and the Super League is a tool for getting concessions out of UEFA
On that last point, I think they’ve gone past that. Even if they back down I won’t be going to Arsenal again.
It does leave a nasty taste but I cannot give up a lifetime of support but I will not pay a penny more to watch the Super League on tv
Mind you I would not be surprised for someone like Amazon to screen the matches free
And I expect BT sports are in crisis as they televise European matches at present
Yes - Amazon will include the Super League with Prime. THIS is the real threat - not so much 12 clubs lining up for the firing squad, but someone coming along to torpedo the TV rights.
Mr. JohnL, actually, Norris is the chap who impressed me most. The other top chaps all made mistakes (Verstappen spun behind the safety car, Hamilton made a rare error [was amused by those trying to blame Russell for that], Leclerc spun on the formation lap, Sainz visited the gravel traps a few times).
Really impressed with him.
Yes, great drive from Norris for a podium, he didn't put a foot wrong all day and managed to hold off the Ferraris while ekeing out those soft tires for 29 laps.
Max was damn lucky that Leclerc hesitated for half a second, when the Dutchman lost it at the restart. If he had had Lewis and Valtteri behind him, they would likely have 'gone' at that point.
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
Yes, I think you are spot on.
Plan as announced is to also play in domestic leagues.
But if they get thrown out of domestic leagues then the ESL will need to be standalone - like NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL. They all have approx 28 to 32 teams, so I expect the ESL would be the same. That will mean another 2 to 4 English teams - likely Everton, West Ham etc. Maybe Celtic and Rangers then get in. Plus more teams across Europe.
The PL without its best 8 to 10 teams is then worth little more than the current EFL - revenues would literally fall 80% to 90%. They would be completely blown out of the water.
US sport (At least NFL) has operated franchises from day dot though. There's also the draft system and salary caps (They're enormous but they still have an effect). European football is a different beast
The best such comment was from Robert up thread, that US sports leagues are all very insular, playing only among themselves in a single competition over the year.
Football is very different, with the same teams playing in multiple competitions and with international competition on top.
I'm still not sure how much the Americans running the big clubs really understand that, along with the history of the more successful clubs being tied to the existing European Cup and Premier League competitions.
True but let's be honest, the League Cup is a waste of time and space. The FA Cup is also a third-rate competition. The Europa Cup would be a complete joke were it not for one glittering prize at the end of the thousands of mile treks to far flung grounds in Kyrgyzstan ... qualification for the real European competition, the Champions League. As a competition the Europa League is awful.
It's sad and I do lament particularly the loss of the FA Cup as a serious competition but it's the truth. The top clubs could do without both those and to focus on the national league and the top European competition.
I think this was inevitable the moment the premiership came into being and many of the reactions we are currently seeing we saw when the premiership first came into being. I’m not overly passionate about football. I’m don’t get many of the objections that seem to be based on an emotional and a rose tinted view of football based on the game it used to be. I’d be grateful if someone could say what is so wrong with this.
Perhaps David Cameron too, could take the opportunity to deflect from his own particular trevails to comment on the European Super League, and how it might impact on his own beloved Aston Ham United.
Their starter for 10 should be to drop all references to the "working class".
Healey argues for a focus on what he calls the “real middle” – people who earn around the median British wage of just under £25,000 – saying these should be Labour’s “core constituency”.
The "real middle" do not consider themselves to be the working class...
To me this looks like a repeat of the power grab that took control of English football away from the bufton tuftons in the FA and gave it to the EPL instead. Which has, beyond any question, been a fabulous economic success. The effort this time is to remove power and the ability to gouge money from EUFA and give it back to the clubs that actually generate it.
Just because it worked so spectacularly the last time doesn't mean it is going to work this time of course. One of the keys to success to the EPL was the pyramidal structure was retained so that Championship clubs still had something to play for. Indeed the play off final became the most valuable game in football world wide. How do you have a league where 3/4 of the teams are exempt from relegation? Where do the feeder teams come from and why would the feeder leagues facilitate that?
EUFA are a terrible organisation; corrupt, incompetent and parasitical. They deserve everything that is coming to them. If this resulted in the breaking of their power in the same way that the FA's power was broken it would be a good thing in the long run. But that depends on the attitude of the national leagues and the EPL in particular. Are they willing to follow the super league clubs out of EUFA? So far the answer is no but watch this space.
Their starter for 10 should be to drop all references to the "working class".
Healey argues for a focus on what he calls the “real middle” – people who earn around the median British wage of just under £25,000 – saying these should be Labour’s “core constituency”.
The "real middle" do not consider themselves to be the working class...
Listening to these communities and their concerns and not demonising them for having the wrong views would be a great start.
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
No problem with a new league so long as it remains a pyramid with promotion and relegation earnt on the field.
If clubs can't be promoted or relegated then its no longer a pyramid.
Well as I understand it, there will be promotion and relegation but only for c. 5 clubs. The founding fathers will be immune. Which isn't great. But it's not the worst thing. You still have 5 clubs who can gain promotion to the following season's leagues.
I wonder if the wall of condemnation will start to break.
But I still can't see FIFA / UEFA / PL / EFL / FA being conciliar. They're arrogant as hell and part of football's problem, not solution.
It's not about merit though is it ? The idea of having Spuds and Arsenal and not Leicester or more to the point Bayern in it sees to that. Ajax, Porto, PSV, Celtic - big clubs in small leagues with history look like they're completely frozen out as things stand. The whole thing looks like it's based on shirt sales in Shanghai instead of any sort of football merit
That's not actually true, they're not 'completely frozen out'. As it stands c. 15 founding clubs are immune from relegation but another 5 each season gain entry on merit, which could mean Leicester, Celtic etc.
And it remains to be seen if any of the German or French clubs are going to be included. There are still 3 more to announce.
I'm not particularly against this providing the clubs can still play in their national leagues at the weekends. There's very little chance of the respective organisations permitting that though. They're not the types to think sensibly and be accommodating. FIFA and UEFA are very corrupt. The PL, FA and EFL aren't a lot better to be honest.
Money always talks. It's a market forces thing and I defy anyone to tell me that FIFA and UEFA have always acted in the interests of the free market or indeed of fans?
15 clubs including Prem mid table clubs immune from relegation ? Farcical
That's not farcical and much as I decry the THFC position in the league in particular you can hardly describe their infrastructure now as mid table. They were in the CL final two seasons ago.
Arsenal are in the semi-final of the Europa League so their league table position is also somewhat moot.
Comments
This has all the hallmarks of being a terrible idea that risks being truly successful.
I don't support it at all but it could be very successful economically. But this is meant to be sport not economics. 😡👎
Sky and BT must be bricking it. At best, its going to cost a load of money to buy the rights and pray it works, at worst they pay loads of money and it is a bust or the mouse / Amazon beats them to it.
One way or another its hugely risky for their entire business models.
This also pits Germany and France against England, Italy and Spain (even if most of England Italy and Spain loathes the idea)
What a mess. Again it reminds me of the rugby code split, which blights the sport even now, 120 years later
They could do a similar joint deal.
Speculation? Who will they be?
It won't be any German or French side, I don't think
I reckon: Everton, Napoli, Benfica....
Any league without promotion/relegation is not a real league. Its just not football.
The thing is that part of what gets the Premier League ratings is that its competitive even when the league winner is known well in advance. City will win this year but who is going to get relegated? Can Liverpool get back into the Top 4 and qualify for the Champions League? Who else wins the race for the Top 4.
Eliminate all that intrigue by just having a league with no promotion, no relegation, no qualification - it will also have nothing to play for besides the club winning it. What will keep its interest? Terrible, terrible idea.
Porto v possible.
Porto, Benfica, Napoli? Or Everton?
Superleague would like the idea of the Merseyside derby....
€3.5bn split between the clubs, €10bn between the clubs over the period covered, seems far more plausible.
"Super League organisers say each club participating in the competition will receive a payment of €3.5bn - that works out at just over £3bn."
Also think about, Man City not doing this for £250-300m. That isn't enough.
€3.5bn between the 12 clubs would be still an incredible amount of money but plausible. €3.5bn each simply isn't happening.
https://twitter.com/seanjonesqc/status/1383930009203605524?s=20
Seán Jones
@seanjonesqc
From the standard Premier League player T&Cs:
6. Obligations of the Club
6.1 The Club shall:
6.1.1 "observe the Rules, all of which (other than Club Rules) shall take precedence over the Club Rules. /1
This is being spoken about as a midweek competition in addition to the Premier League not instead of it. So instead of the Champions League.
€300mn per year would be more than Man City's entire broadcasting revenue from all sources combined. With then Premier League revenue still coming on top? That's a heck of a lot of cash.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/apr/19/european-super-league-clubs-uefa-champions-league
Chelsea and Man City must be weaker links. Also Liverpool with its "moral" self image, despite its odious owners
If the Superleague works, sure they might actually make this kind of insane money, but no one can guarantee it. The sum is based on "projected" income from a successful league, over several years
Alternatively the EPL, FA, UEFA et al get the bollocks to expel the teams, half the English clubs freak out, and it all falls apart
From the Guardian link Leon shared: "clubs receive between €89m and €310m immediately for signing on the dotted line"
€300mn is a lot of money, not a little bit.
If they have agreed in principle the global tv rights for 5-10 years, rather than country by country short term deals, that could eye watering amounts.
The Devious Dozen know this won't fly with EUFA/FIFA. They know there is no way EUFA will allow their clubs to play in a parallel competition, and which devalues their biggest product (The Champions League).
Therefore they must know it will be rejected out of hand, and that all the clubs will be expelled from their leagues if it is to go forward.
For this reason, I don't believe that the plan for a midweek league is a serious one. This has to be, instead, an attempt to overthrow EUFA/FIFA by creating a parallel football system owned and run by the clubs. This midweek Super League suggestion is therefore nothing more than window dressing so that the clubs can shrug their shoulders and say "well, we tried to work with FIFA/EUFA but look at them - bloody monopolists, wouldn't even talk to us."
I forecast that the Devious Dozen will therefore quit their national leagues and will form a breakaway organisaztion. I think they will then work very hard to recruit another dozen or so teams.
They will then start negotiating like crazy with teams left behind: their goal is to destroy EUFA completely, and for the big professional clubs to own and manage football, and not to be beholden to an outside organiation.
If clubs can't be promoted or relegated then its no longer a pyramid.
There are some merits to having a breakaway League. Getting it out of the hands of UEFA (like the PL founding itself), getting more quality games and fewer versus UnheardOfFC from minor European leagues etc. There's some kernels of positives there.
But a closed shop proposal drowns them all out.
Either that or trying to justify to yourself why you can support Liverpool joining such a monstrosity.
If it was based upon on the field qualification then I could support it. But it isn't.
Plan as announced is to also play in domestic leagues.
But if they get thrown out of domestic leagues then the ESL will need to be standalone - like NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL. They all have approx 28 to 32 teams, so I expect the ESL would be the same. That will mean another 2 to 4 English teams - likely Everton, West Ham etc. Maybe Celtic and Rangers then get in. Plus more teams across Europe.
The PL without its best 8 to 10 teams is then worth little more than the current EFL - revenues would literally fall 80% to 90%. They would be completely blown out of the water.
>> banning super-teams to protect British AND European football from this scourge; and
>> reforming the House of Lords, possibly by including "Lords of the Leagues" as part of the mix.
The UK was 101 out of 112 countries that registered deaths yesterday for deaths per capita from Covid 19.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
If you are Celtic or Rangers, you know that you're either in at the start... or you're never going to be in at all. If it looks like it might work, then you have to ask to join.
The same maths are going to matter for Porto, Sporting Lisbon and Benfica.
Even if they chicken out - I don’t think they can now - I’m done with Arsenal. I’m so angry about this.
If you look at cricket, the IPL is an utter phenomenon: the biggest competition in the world and with a bit of give and take, national selectors have worked around it. I don't think anyone would deny that the IPL is having an incredible impact on world cricket.
I loathe the greed at the top of football but some of this has been self-induced. The Champions League has descended into something of a farce with a horrible new proposed format. The Europa League is a poor second rate competition with one glittering prize (CL qualification), the FA Cup is meaningless and the League Cup even more so. Those are really sad statements because they used to be great comps. Alongside all of this, both FIFA and UEFA have demonstrated a propensity to corruption and cack-handed new rules like VAR.
The fact is that every big club knows it's the Champions League matches which are the big ones and yet the CL has become a lesser competition.
What does make me really sad is that the smaller clubs used to have a great time of it in the League Cup and the FA Cup. They were special days. But that's 30 or 40 years ago now and those days are gone.
If they could get away with running this midweek as proposed alongside the national leagues I'd be pro but somehow I don't think there's going to be a cordial solution like that.
I wonder if the wall of condemnation will start to break.
But I still can't see FIFA / UEFA / PL / EFL / FA being conciliar. They're arrogant as hell and part of football's problem, not solution.
That all changed with live televised matches outside of the golden time.
I'm going to stick my neck out here: I don't think this Super League is a bad idea. Providing they can still play in their respective national leagues. It will render the FA and League Cups even more meaningless but that's a process which began a long time ago to be honest.
I appreciate that you're not personally responsible for this disgraceful scheme, but I sincerely hope Arsenal FC and the rest of the clubs involved go bust.
Even if they chicken out of this I am done with Arsenal. I have two season tickets - you won't be getting another penny from me.
Bit bleh yesterday, but here's the post-race: https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2021/04/imola-post-race-analysis-2021.html
Annoyed. Russell could've and should've easily had points.
If it's financially lucrative enough then the League of Greed will go ahead. Might not survive, though.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zihSYqiUDsE
"The Premier League is now one of the richest and most watched sports leagues in the world, but after violence and disaster had ruined the game, how did a secret deal change football forever? An in depth look at the conditions that led to the Premier League being formed from a breakaway from the Football League, and the effect that it had on English and world football."
So - a referendum on English supremacy. England uber alles. Should the UK be redefined as England, letting the Scotch and the Irish and the Welsh do whatever it is they're complaining about? England keeps their money, go and sod off. Problem solved, and the Tories complete their evolution away from a pretence of being unionist to being English populists.
The idea of having Spuds and Arsenal and not Leicester or more to the point Bayern in it sees to that.
Ajax, Porto, PSV, Celtic - big clubs in small leagues with history look like they're completely frozen out as things stand.
The whole thing looks like it's based on shirt sales in Shanghai instead of any sort of football merit
Regardless of anything else it completely devalues the EPL even if it went ahead on the terms in which it is being laid out. If the 'founding fathers' qualify automatically, they no longer have to worry about EPL performance. And of course the money they take down from this would render the EPL even more uncompetitive as their B teams would be so far ahead of everyone else.
It will happen, and I think the EPL and UEFA are powerless to stop it. So let them go and perform in their global freak show for the Asian and US audience and kick them out of domestic football.
At home, the football bubble will burst but we will hopefully reset the domestic competition, impose some level playing field rules and we will have a competition that is fun and competitive and less worried about chasing shirt sales in Asia.
Sad day but it's been coming.
The statements from the big clubs appear to go a lot further than simply trying to bluff UEFA into reformatting the CL, and they must have war-gamed the national leagues kicking out the clubs involved and banning players from international service. They're not just burning their bridges, they poured petrol on them first just to make sure they got properly burned though.
Yes, the local fan base is going to be furious, but if there's billion-currency-unit cheques being handed out it's going to be happening.
Americans and Asians don't care for the local links and competition history, if Liverpool play Real Madrid and Manchester City play Barcelona twice a year they'll be watching, and buying shirts. They also won't care if MC play half of their 'home' games in Abu Dhabi, or Liverpool play in Boston.
A sad day for football.
Not quite sure about the zealotry of the convert, however....
Hopefully United back down leaving Citeh to be excluded from the Premier League.
Not the most inspiring of subjects, AFAIC; I'm not by any means as obsessed with the game as some, but it does seem somewhat ironic that at a time when the state is hell-bent on reducing it's ties with the rest of Europe, one sport is equally enthusiastic about increasing them!
Biut we had a good weekend, with a visit from Eldest Granddaughter, and a good walk yesterday; we remain [puzzled and intrigued by Line of Duty and Mrs Blue-tit has laid another egg.
My main concern is no matter the threats from UEFA and FIFA of banning Super League players from their competitions I am not at all certain how it would stand up in law on restriction of trade
My hope is that common sense will prevail and the Super League is a tool for getting concessions out of UEFA
Good old Arsene
Really impressed with him.
What does England have to fear? Stops pissing money away to the provinces, gets rid of the Irish Brexit threat, preserves a Tory majority that is unchallengeable. You can't say "but Johnson is a Unionist" because he isn't - the treatment of NI demonstrates that.
The big question will be Wales. Easy to throw off NI and Scotland with their separate legal systems and currencies. Wales - as an annexed part of England since 1284 - will need a new currency and new legal system. Does England try and keep her? Does Wales want to stay with England?
Whether or not Johnson pulls the plug or not, the union is done. These questions are coming. Denial isn't an answer.
And it remains to be seen if any of the German or French clubs are going to be included. There are still 3 more to announce.
I'm not particularly against this providing the clubs can still play in their national leagues at the weekends. There's very little chance of the respective organisations permitting that though. They're not the types to think sensibly and be accommodating. FIFA and UEFA are very corrupt. The PL, FA and EFL aren't a lot better to be honest.
Money always talks. It's a market forces thing and I defy anyone to tell me that FIFA and UEFA have always acted in the interests of the free market or indeed of fans?
Football is very different, with the same teams playing in multiple competitions and with international competition on top.
I'm still not sure how much the Americans running the big clubs really understand that, along with the history of the more successful clubs being tied to the existing European Cup and Premier League competitions.
Farcical
Mind you I would not be surprised for someone like Amazon to screen the matches free
And I expect BT sports are in crisis as they televise European matches at present
Their starter for 10 should be to drop all references to the "working class".
Healey argues for a focus on what he calls the “real middle” – people who earn around the median British wage of just under £25,000 – saying these should be Labour’s “core constituency”.
The "real middle" do not consider themselves to be the working class...
Max was damn lucky that Leclerc hesitated for half a second, when the Dutchman lost it at the restart. If he had had Lewis and Valtteri behind him, they would likely have 'gone' at that point.
It's sad and I do lament particularly the loss of the FA Cup as a serious competition but it's the truth. The top clubs could do without both those and to focus on the national league and the top European competition.
Just because it worked so spectacularly the last time doesn't mean it is going to work this time of course. One of the keys to success to the EPL was the pyramidal structure was retained so that Championship clubs still had something to play for. Indeed the play off final became the most valuable game in football world wide. How do you have a league where 3/4 of the teams are exempt from relegation? Where do the feeder teams come from and why would the feeder leagues facilitate that?
EUFA are a terrible organisation; corrupt, incompetent and parasitical. They deserve everything that is coming to them. If this resulted in the breaking of their power in the same way that the FA's power was broken it would be a good thing in the long run. But that depends on the attitude of the national leagues and the EPL in particular. Are they willing to follow the super league clubs out of EUFA? So far the answer is no but watch this space.
Arsenal are in the semi-final of the Europa League so their league table position is also somewhat moot.