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Ipsos MORI finds for the first time in a year optimists outnumber pessimists – politicalbetting.com

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  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,232
    Fuxake, he's obviously been eating all his own cheese

    https://twitter.com/Dr_RonanCall/status/1383734957856616449?s=20
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,364
    Afternoon all :)

    Football - who cares?

    On topic, it's little surprise - optimism is in the air, it's everywhere I look around. Optimism is in the air it's every sight and every sound. I don't know if I'm being foolish, I don't know if I'm being wise but it's something I must believe in. Perhaps I'll vote Tory for the very first time.

    Actually, no, I won't.

    If the prospect of an end to the coronavirus nightmare, a sunny afternoon and a roast beef dinner in a pub garden (apparently) doesn't make you happy, nothing will - that's the zeitgeist. The extroverts are free and happy again - the societal balance is restored - we introverts can once again monopolise being grumpy and anti-social.

    Thus is the natural order of things restored and this introvert is content.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,826
    "Just eight countries are set to feature on the government’s “green list” when restrictions on non-essential travel are lifted next month, new modelling suggests.

    The government is expected to introduce a traffic light system when the universal ban on foreign holidays is lifted on May 17.

    Israel, Iceland, the US, Australia, New Zealand, the British overseas territory of Gibraltar, Malta and Iceland are likely to among the nations and territories on the safe list.

    Those travelling to green list countries will not need to self-isolate but will need to take a number of Covid tests to prove they are not infectious before and after returning to the UK."

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/just-eight-countries-set-to-feature-on-travel-green-list-b930299.html
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ON topic, a question for PB software brainiacs.

    My laptop has just frozen during a Windows 10 update

    "50% completed, do not switch off"

    It's just stuck on that and has been stuck for hours. It won't even switch off if I press the off button hard and long

    Anything else I can do?!

    Buy a MacBook.
    I did, once. Hated it

    Any other helpful suggestions?!
    Why did you hate it?
    I find the UI of Apple laptops deeply frustrating and non-intuitive. Even tiny things like no simple, proper delete key

    Also rather slow, and the keyboard is not great for typing a lot

    The Surface is brilliant in all departments: fast, easy, smooth. And simply the best keyboard I've ever used. Others agree

    "The keyboard is a dream. There is simply not a finer typing experience to be had on any other laptop. The keys are solid, well spaced, have a nice silk-like texture to them, a satisfying amount of travel and are relatively quiet."


    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/feb/11/microsoft-surface-laptop-3-review-still-sleek-just-no-longer-unique
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,459
    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Greedy greedy football. Out of touch. A giant bubble ripe to be pricked. My idea of the way forward? Nationalize without compensation then sell each club for a peppercorn price into local communal ownership. A new 'return to roots and sanity' model with a 'jumpers for goalposts' ethic. Bring back the romance with a £10 entrance fee and subsidized meat pies. One live match per week on TV. Match of the Day at the weekend. Sportsnight with Coleman for big midweek games under the lights. Top players wages capped at 25 x the highest paid member of the groundstaff. Tea lady to work from home if she wants to. I want to hear something like this from Starmer tomorrow. It's time to be bold. The Red Wall will lap this up and so will the Modern Metro Left. It's just what Labour needs.

    I think that's a little over the top, but I did suggest Ed Miliband promise a windfall tax on the PL after the 2016-19 rights were sold in Feb 2015.
    Yes, but you get the drift clearly. This Super League idea sounds like the plutocrats floating off into a world of their own, totally disconnected from what is meant to be a working man's sport which binds communities.

    Interesting that the country which runs football the best - Germany - are not touching it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    Floater said:

    https://twitter.com/theragex/status/1383803070400786439

    Macron does not believe that the Russian vaccine "Sputnik V" can now be used in the EU - CBS

    It has, in fact, been used in the EU.

    Not in great quantities, admittedly (Russian production capacity is limited), but some EU countries have bought it and used it.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 3,605
    edited April 18
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Greedy greedy football. Out of touch. A giant bubble ripe to be pricked. My idea of the way forward? Nationalize without compensation then sell each club for a peppercorn price into local communal ownership. A new 'return to roots and sanity' model with a 'jumpers for goalposts' ethic. Bring back the romance with a £10 entrance fee and subsidized meat pies. One live match per week on TV. Match of the Day at the weekend. Sportsnight with Coleman for big midweek games under the lights. Top players wages capped at 25 x the highest paid member of the groundstaff. Tea lady to work from home if she wants to. I want to hear something like this from Starmer tomorrow. It's time to be bold. The Red Wall will lap this up and so will the Modern Metro Left. It's just what Labour needs.

    Agree about the greedy but not sure red wall would lap this up. Big name players no more.and our best players go abroad.
    It’ll go down well in the NE if it triggers a resurgence of their teams. Imagine Darlington and Hartlepool returning to the Football League!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719
    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Greedy greedy football. Out of touch. A giant bubble ripe to be pricked. My idea of the way forward? Nationalize without compensation then sell each club for a peppercorn price into local communal ownership. A new 'return to roots and sanity' model with a 'jumpers for goalposts' ethic. Bring back the romance with a £10 entrance fee and subsidized meat pies. One live match per week on TV. Match of the Day at the weekend. Sportsnight with Coleman for big midweek games under the lights. Top players wages capped at 25 x the highest paid member of the groundstaff. Tea lady to work from home if she wants to. I want to hear something like this from Starmer tomorrow. It's time to be bold. The Red Wall will lap this up and so will the Modern Metro Left. It's just what Labour needs.

    I think that's a little over the top, but I did suggest Ed Miliband promise a windfall tax on the PL after the 2016-19 rights were sold in Feb 2015.
    Yes, but you get the drift clearly. This Super League idea sounds like the plutocrats floating off into a world of their own, totally disconnected from what is meant to be a working man's sport which binds communities.

    Interesting that the country which runs football the best - Germany - are not touching it.
    Bayern are unlikely to ever miss out on the Champions League so I'm not sure how principled their stance is. Personally I think German football is not run that well. It's not healthy to have one team purchasing the best players from their rivals most summers. Just imagine how rubbish the PL would have been if Vieira and Henry had gone to Man Utd.
  • pingping Posts: 1,415
    edited April 18
    Seems to me like it was only a matter of time before football was sold to the highest bidder. No doubt we’ll soon be watching franchise clubs playing in Riyadh. It was good while it lasted. RIP
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Greedy greedy football. Out of touch. A giant bubble ripe to be pricked. My idea of the way forward? Nationalize without compensation then sell each club for a peppercorn price into local communal ownership. A new 'return to roots and sanity' model with a 'jumpers for goalposts' ethic. Bring back the romance with a £10 entrance fee and subsidized meat pies. One live match per week on TV. Match of the Day at the weekend. Sportsnight with Coleman for big midweek games under the lights. Top players wages capped at 25 x the highest paid member of the groundstaff. Tea lady to work from home if she wants to. I want to hear something like this from Starmer tomorrow. It's time to be bold. The Red Wall will lap this up and so will the Modern Metro Left. It's just what Labour needs.

    I think that's a little over the top, but I did suggest Ed Miliband promise a windfall tax on the PL after the 2016-19 rights were sold in Feb 2015.
    Yes, but you get the drift clearly. This Super League idea sounds like the plutocrats floating off into a world of their own, totally disconnected from what is meant to be a working man's sport which binds communities.

    Interesting that the country which runs football the best - Germany - are not touching it.
    We'll see

    If it takes off - and that is a mighty if, right now - then the pressure on Bayern (and maybe a couple of others) to join it will be intense. Financially, they could benefit hugely, and their fans would want them to play the best teams outside Germany, and would tire of Bayern forever winning the diminished Champions League like Celtic/Rangers in Scotland

    But there are so many potential problems with this league, and so much hatred for it and pressure against it, I have great doubts it will work as proposed

    A FIFA/UEFA ban on Superleague players in national squads would kill it instantly, for a start (if that is legal)
  • tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Greedy greedy football. Out of touch. A giant bubble ripe to be pricked. My idea of the way forward? Nationalize without compensation then sell each club for a peppercorn price into local communal ownership. A new 'return to roots and sanity' model with a 'jumpers for goalposts' ethic. Bring back the romance with a £10 entrance fee and subsidized meat pies. One live match per week on TV. Match of the Day at the weekend. Sportsnight with Coleman for big midweek games under the lights. Top players wages capped at 25 x the highest paid member of the groundstaff. Tea lady to work from home if she wants to. I want to hear something like this from Starmer tomorrow. It's time to be bold. The Red Wall will lap this up and so will the Modern Metro Left. It's just what Labour needs.

    I think that's a little over the top, but I did suggest Ed Miliband promise a windfall tax on the PL after the 2016-19 rights were sold in Feb 2015.
    Yes, but you get the drift clearly. This Super League idea sounds like the plutocrats floating off into a world of their own, totally disconnected from what is meant to be a working man's sport which binds communities.

    Interesting that the country which runs football the best - Germany - are not touching it.
    Bayern are unlikely to ever miss out on the Champions League so I'm not sure how principled their stance is. Personally I think German football is not run that well. It's not healthy to have one team purchasing the best players from their rivals most summers. Just imagine how rubbish the PL would have been if Vieira and Henry had gone to Man Utd.
    It is one of the reasons Klopp came to Liverpool.

    He knew it was very unlikely that every summer he'd lose his best player to City.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    edited April 18
    This footy journalist thinks the players WILL be barred from international football

    https://twitter.com/LukeEdwardsTele/status/1383807654636654596?s=20


    Luke Edwards
    @LukeEdwardsTele
    ·
    34m
    Said it before and I’ll say it again, if Premier League big six want to join a closed shop European super league let them go and immediately ban them from playing in any domestic competitions. If league isn’t recognised by FA, UEFA FIFA, players can’t play international football

    He adds:


    Luke Edwards
    @LukeEdwardsTele
    ·
    24m

    This is exactly what they have been threatened with btw. With no other European football you’d get each team playing each other three or four times a season, maybe more with a knockout competition. Good luck with that. Doubt it will get to this stage though. Clubs will reverse
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963
    Leon said:

    ON topic, a question for PB software brainiacs.

    My laptop has just frozen during a Windows 10 update

    "50% completed, do not switch off"

    It's just stuck on that and has been stuck for hours. It won't even switch off if I press the off button hard and long

    Anything else I can do?!

    Leave it for a few hours, see if it’s actually stuck or just taking time

    Power button held for five seconds should switch it off.

    Press F8 key on startup and follow the menu for recovery or safe mode. If it boots in safe mode, run the disk repair utility (this takes hours) and reboot.

    If you’ve got a copy of Windows on a DVD or USB, try booting from that (F12 on startup for boot menu) to run a repair.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    edited April 18

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.

    Yet they keep on trying - its like the civil service and ID cards, always bringing it back up a few years down the line, and never any better arguments. Solution looking for a problem.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ON topic, a question for PB software brainiacs.

    My laptop has just frozen during a Windows 10 update

    "50% completed, do not switch off"

    It's just stuck on that and has been stuck for hours. It won't even switch off if I press the off button hard and long

    Anything else I can do?!

    Buy a MacBook.
    I did, once. Hated it

    Any other helpful suggestions?!
    Why did you hate it?
    I find the UI of Apple laptops deeply frustrating and non-intuitive. Even tiny things like no simple, proper delete key

    Also rather slow, and the keyboard is not great for typing a lot

    The Surface is brilliant in all departments: fast, easy, smooth. And simply the best keyboard I've ever used. Others agree

    "The keyboard is a dream. There is simply not a finer typing experience to be had on any other laptop. The keys are solid, well spaced, have a nice silk-like texture to them, a satisfying amount of travel and are relatively quiet."


    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/feb/11/microsoft-surface-laptop-3-review-still-sleek-just-no-longer-unique
    The Surface laptop is, indeed, excellent for anyone who is not a hardcore gamer.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    Israel to allow vaccinated tourists in from next month: https://www.foxnews.com/travel/israel-welcoming-vaccinated-tourist-groups-may
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    rcs1000 said:

    Israel to allow vaccinated tourists in from next month: https://www.foxnews.com/travel/israel-welcoming-vaccinated-tourist-groups-may

    Rather than having red and green list countries, why not restrict travel to the fully vaccinated?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,887
    edited April 18
    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.
    We're European Royalty, we always get invited to stuff like this.

    Remember we've won more European Cups/CLs than United, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea, and Leicester combined.

    In fact we've won more than the entire current PL combined.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.

    Yet they keep on trying - its like the civil service and ID cards, always bringing it back up a few years down the line, and never any better arguments. Solution looking for a problem.
    Well, they think they have a problem because, sometimes - shock horror! - they don't qualify for the Champions League. What a pity

    It is pure greed and even if it "works" it will poison football for a decade, with complete war breaking out: between domestic football in all countries and the super league elite

    What a disastrous idea
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719

    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.
    We're European Royalty, we always get invited to stuff like this.

    Remember we've won more European Cups/CLs than United, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea, and Leicester.

    In fact we've won more than the entire current PL combined.
    Doesn't mean you have to join it. Liverpool are supposed to be morally superior. Well, this shows that your owners are just a bunch of scum.

    You should call it out.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,213
    kinabalu said:

    Greedy greedy football. Out of touch. A giant bubble ripe to be pricked. My idea of the way forward? Nationalize without compensation then sell each club for a peppercorn price into local communal ownership. A new 'return to roots and sanity' model with a 'jumpers for goalposts' ethic. Bring back the romance with a £10 entrance fee and subsidized meat pies. One live match per week on TV. Match of the Day at the weekend. Sportsnight with Coleman for big midweek games under the lights. Top players wages capped at 25 x the highest paid member of the groundstaff. Tea lady to work from home if she wants to. I want to hear something like this from Starmer tomorrow. It's time to be bold. The Red Wall will lap this up and so will the Modern Metro Left. It's just what Labour needs.

    Complete garbage. The red wall love football and when the top players exodus and we are all watching the equivalent of league 1 it will not be popular.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055

    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.
    We're European Royalty, we always get invited to stuff like this.

    Remember we've won more European Cups/CLs than United, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea, and Leicester.

    In fact we've won more than the entire current PL combined.
    I'm not sure everyone in Liverpool will be as delighted as you. Kiss goodbye to the Merseyside derby. All that Liverpool-Everton history, trashed

    I imagine Newcastle United aren't overly chuffed, either. All these big historic clubs excluded. Aston Villa? And so on

  • tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.
    We're European Royalty, we always get invited to stuff like this.

    Remember we've won more European Cups/CLs than United, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea, and Leicester.

    In fact we've won more than the entire current PL combined.
    Doesn't mean you have to join it. Liverpool are supposed to be morally superior. Well, this shows that your owners are just a bunch of scum.

    You should call it out.
    I have, downthread.

    This has always been my fear when so many American sports franchise owners starting buying PL clubs in the mid 2000s.

    The Glazers at United, H*cks & G*llett at Liverpool, Randy Lerner at Aston Villa, and Kroenke at your lot.

    IIRC Burnley, Fulham, Palace, Villa, and Dirty Leeds are owned by Americans or have significant holdings by Americans in them.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,364
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Israel to allow vaccinated tourists in from next month: https://www.foxnews.com/travel/israel-welcoming-vaccinated-tourist-groups-may

    Rather than having red and green list countries, why not restrict travel to the fully vaccinated?
    I have a question - if a cruise ship is only allowing on board those who have had both vaccinations, why is there a further requirement for all passengers to have a negative test before they are allowed on board?

    I thought once you had both vaccinations you were a) much less at risk from contracting Covid-19, b) much less at risk from transmitting it to others and c) much less likely to suffer severe health issues if you did contract it.

    Why then would a ship full of doubly-vaccinated passengers and crew need a further regime of testing especially if it isn't travelling outside the UK?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 3,605
    edited April 18

    kinabalu said:

    Greedy greedy football. Out of touch. A giant bubble ripe to be pricked. My idea of the way forward? Nationalize without compensation then sell each club for a peppercorn price into local communal ownership. A new 'return to roots and sanity' model with a 'jumpers for goalposts' ethic. Bring back the romance with a £10 entrance fee and subsidized meat pies. One live match per week on TV. Match of the Day at the weekend. Sportsnight with Coleman for big midweek games under the lights. Top players wages capped at 25 x the highest paid member of the groundstaff. Tea lady to work from home if she wants to. I want to hear something like this from Starmer tomorrow. It's time to be bold. The Red Wall will lap this up and so will the Modern Metro Left. It's just what Labour needs.

    Complete garbage. The red wall love football and when the top players exodus and we are all watching the equivalent of league 1 it will not be popular.
    Not true of the NE. Sunderland were averaging over 30,000 attendances in League 1 before COVID struck. Any party that can get the Magpies, the Mackems and Boro back among the big boys and in the hunt for trophies will clean up.
  • I missed this from December, I'm actually surprised by this, I'd have thought opposition would be much higher.

    In a Savanta ComRes poll of 2,100 football fans, almost half of younger fans (48%) said they would be happy about the prospect of a European Super League, while 18% said they would be unhappy.

    In contrast, just 10% of fans aged 55 and over were happy about the idea, with close to two-thirds (63%) unhappy.

    The poll also shows:

    Across all ages, 30% of fans were happy about the idea of a European Super League, with 40% unhappy.

    More than a third (35%) of fans aged 55 and over said they felt a breakaway league would be 'very bad' for football overall.

    Among fans aged 18-34 that figure was just 10%.

    A fifth (20%) of younger fans thought the European Super League would be a 'very good' idea for football overall, compared to just 6% of older fans.

    Close to half of male fans (48%) are unhappy at the idea of a European Super League, as opposed to just under a quarter (23%) of female football fans. More than a third (35%) of female football fans are happy about the idea.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55159249
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,526
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.

    Yet they keep on trying - its like the civil service and ID cards, always bringing it back up a few years down the line, and never any better arguments. Solution looking for a problem.
    Well, they think they have a problem because, sometimes - shock horror! - they don't qualify for the Champions League. What a pity

    It is pure greed and even if it "works" it will poison football for a decade, with complete war breaking out: between domestic football in all countries and the super league elite

    What a disastrous idea
    Suspect it will be hugely popular in Asia (needs plenty of early kick-offs), Africa and South (perhaps also North) America (needs plenty of very late kick offs).

    Suspect it will be hated in Europe.

    The worst thing about it will be allowing FIFA the moral high ground.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    edited April 18
    I have a friend who is a crazy keen supporter of Bournemouth FC. Season ticket, all matches, home and away. His biggest thrill (possibly in life) came when they got promoted to the EPL and he got to see them play the big six clubs, with those famous players


    So this is just a big fuck you to people like him. Passionate football fans who keep the sport ticking, at all levels

    Tsk

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963

    I missed this from December, I'm actually surprised by this, I'd have thought opposition would be much higher.

    In a Savanta ComRes poll of 2,100 football fans, almost half of younger fans (48%) said they would be happy about the prospect of a European Super League, while 18% said they would be unhappy.

    In contrast, just 10% of fans aged 55 and over were happy about the idea, with close to two-thirds (63%) unhappy.

    The poll also shows:

    Across all ages, 30% of fans were happy about the idea of a European Super League, with 40% unhappy.

    More than a third (35%) of fans aged 55 and over said they felt a breakaway league would be 'very bad' for football overall.

    Among fans aged 18-34 that figure was just 10%.

    A fifth (20%) of younger fans thought the European Super League would be a 'very good' idea for football overall, compared to just 6% of older fans.

    Close to half of male fans (48%) are unhappy at the idea of a European Super League, as opposed to just under a quarter (23%) of female football fans. More than a third (35%) of female football fans are happy about the idea.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55159249

    What were the numbers in favour of the Premier League, back in 1990?

    As always with these things, the devil is in the detail. If the breakaway league means that players can’t wear national shirts, then they’d better have some serious money backing them to the point that they can’t be ignored.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,364
    The obvious solution is to apply horse racing principles to football and treat the Premier League as a handicap.

    The bookies do it every year - you can bet on the Premier League with, for example, Man City starting at scratch

    Arsenal (+24)
    Aston Villa (+50)
    Brighton (+47)
    Burnley (+47)
    Chelsea (+14)
    Crystal Palace (+49)
    Everton (+35)
    Fulham (+52)
    Leeds (+40)
    Leicester (+32)
    Liverpool (+4)
    Manchester City (scr)
    Manchester Utd (+16)
    Newcastle (+47)
    Sheffield United (+46)
    Southampton (+40)
    Tottenham (+26)
    West Brom (+53)
    West Ham (+44)
    Wolves (+31)

    Now, if you ran the real season that way it would be much more exciting. West Ham would be leading that I would guess at the moment.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719
    Sandpit said:

    I missed this from December, I'm actually surprised by this, I'd have thought opposition would be much higher.

    In a Savanta ComRes poll of 2,100 football fans, almost half of younger fans (48%) said they would be happy about the prospect of a European Super League, while 18% said they would be unhappy.

    In contrast, just 10% of fans aged 55 and over were happy about the idea, with close to two-thirds (63%) unhappy.

    The poll also shows:

    Across all ages, 30% of fans were happy about the idea of a European Super League, with 40% unhappy.

    More than a third (35%) of fans aged 55 and over said they felt a breakaway league would be 'very bad' for football overall.

    Among fans aged 18-34 that figure was just 10%.

    A fifth (20%) of younger fans thought the European Super League would be a 'very good' idea for football overall, compared to just 6% of older fans.

    Close to half of male fans (48%) are unhappy at the idea of a European Super League, as opposed to just under a quarter (23%) of female football fans. More than a third (35%) of female football fans are happy about the idea.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55159249

    What were the numbers in favour of the Premier League, back in 1990?

    As always with these things, the devil is in the detail. If the breakaway league means that players can’t wear national shirts, then they’d better have some serious money backing them to the point that they can’t be ignored.
    Could be like Colombia post-WW2:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_Colombia#El_Dorado
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    Sandpit said:

    I missed this from December, I'm actually surprised by this, I'd have thought opposition would be much higher.

    In a Savanta ComRes poll of 2,100 football fans, almost half of younger fans (48%) said they would be happy about the prospect of a European Super League, while 18% said they would be unhappy.

    In contrast, just 10% of fans aged 55 and over were happy about the idea, with close to two-thirds (63%) unhappy.

    The poll also shows:

    Across all ages, 30% of fans were happy about the idea of a European Super League, with 40% unhappy.

    More than a third (35%) of fans aged 55 and over said they felt a breakaway league would be 'very bad' for football overall.

    Among fans aged 18-34 that figure was just 10%.

    A fifth (20%) of younger fans thought the European Super League would be a 'very good' idea for football overall, compared to just 6% of older fans.

    Close to half of male fans (48%) are unhappy at the idea of a European Super League, as opposed to just under a quarter (23%) of female football fans. More than a third (35%) of female football fans are happy about the idea.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55159249

    What were the numbers in favour of the Premier League, back in 1990?

    As always with these things, the devil is in the detail. If the breakaway league means that players can’t wear national shirts, then they’d better have some serious money backing them to the point that they can’t be ignored.
    Mark Kleinman
    @MarkKleinmanSky
    Revealed: Some more details emerging of the European Super League project, which is expected to be announced later - my understanding is that the financing package being provided by JP Morgan has been reduced slightly to around $5bn - still a huge sum for Europe's top clubs.


    https://twitter.com/MarkKleinmanSky/status/1383816174610239488?s=20
  • Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.
    We're European Royalty, we always get invited to stuff like this.

    Remember we've won more European Cups/CLs than United, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea, and Leicester.

    In fact we've won more than the entire current PL combined.
    I'm not sure everyone in Liverpool will be as delighted as you. Kiss goodbye to the Merseyside derby. All that Liverpool-Everton history, trashed

    I imagine Newcastle United aren't overly chuffed, either. All these big historic clubs excluded. Aston Villa? And so on

    Newcastle haven't won England's top title since 1927 (when HM The Queen was a year old), their last major honour was 52 years ago.

    Newcastle United aren't a big club.

    They are the Tottenham of the North East.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    I missed this from December, I'm actually surprised by this, I'd have thought opposition would be much higher.

    In a Savanta ComRes poll of 2,100 football fans, almost half of younger fans (48%) said they would be happy about the prospect of a European Super League, while 18% said they would be unhappy.

    In contrast, just 10% of fans aged 55 and over were happy about the idea, with close to two-thirds (63%) unhappy.

    The poll also shows:

    Across all ages, 30% of fans were happy about the idea of a European Super League, with 40% unhappy.

    More than a third (35%) of fans aged 55 and over said they felt a breakaway league would be 'very bad' for football overall.

    Among fans aged 18-34 that figure was just 10%.

    A fifth (20%) of younger fans thought the European Super League would be a 'very good' idea for football overall, compared to just 6% of older fans.

    Close to half of male fans (48%) are unhappy at the idea of a European Super League, as opposed to just under a quarter (23%) of female football fans. More than a third (35%) of female football fans are happy about the idea.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55159249

    What were the numbers in favour of the Premier League, back in 1990?

    As always with these things, the devil is in the detail. If the breakaway league means that players can’t wear national shirts, then they’d better have some serious money backing them to the point that they can’t be ignored.
    Mark Kleinman
    @MarkKleinmanSky
    Revealed: Some more details emerging of the European Super League project, which is expected to be announced later - my understanding is that the financing package being provided by JP Morgan has been reduced slightly to around $5bn - still a huge sum for Europe's top clubs.


    https://twitter.com/MarkKleinmanSky/status/1383816174610239488?s=20
    It would be terrible if some Millwall fans went and smashed up the JP Morgan building in Canary Wharf.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.
    We're European Royalty, we always get invited to stuff like this.

    Remember we've won more European Cups/CLs than United, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea, and Leicester.

    In fact we've won more than the entire current PL combined.
    I'm not sure everyone in Liverpool will be as delighted as you. Kiss goodbye to the Merseyside derby. All that Liverpool-Everton history, trashed

    I imagine Newcastle United aren't overly chuffed, either. All these big historic clubs excluded. Aston Villa? And so on

    Newcastle haven't won England's top title since 1927 (when HM The Queen was a year old), their last major honour was 52 years ago.

    Newcastle United aren't a big club.

    They are the Tottenham of the North East.
    I know you're trolling, but this is a serious point

    Newcastle are English football royalty. Their fans are amazing, loyal and funny, despite all that disappointment. The day of a big match in Newcastle - eg Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal - has an intense atmosphere, I've experienced it

    Now all that will go. It is tremendously sad
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,883

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.
    We're European Royalty, we always get invited to stuff like this.

    Remember we've won more European Cups/CLs than United, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea, and Leicester.

    In fact we've won more than the entire current PL combined.
    I'm not sure everyone in Liverpool will be as delighted as you. Kiss goodbye to the Merseyside derby. All that Liverpool-Everton history, trashed

    I imagine Newcastle United aren't overly chuffed, either. All these big historic clubs excluded. Aston Villa? And so on

    Newcastle haven't won England's top title since 1927 (when HM The Queen was a year old), their last major honour was 52 years ago.

    Newcastle United aren't a big club.

    They are the Tottenham of the North East.
    We're a big club, we're just not a successful club. Same with Leeds United, Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest, etc.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,459
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Greedy greedy football. Out of touch. A giant bubble ripe to be pricked. My idea of the way forward? Nationalize without compensation then sell each club for a peppercorn price into local communal ownership. A new 'return to roots and sanity' model with a 'jumpers for goalposts' ethic. Bring back the romance with a £10 entrance fee and subsidized meat pies. One live match per week on TV. Match of the Day at the weekend. Sportsnight with Coleman for big midweek games under the lights. Top players wages capped at 25 x the highest paid member of the groundstaff. Tea lady to work from home if she wants to. I want to hear something like this from Starmer tomorrow. It's time to be bold. The Red Wall will lap this up and so will the Modern Metro Left. It's just what Labour needs.

    Agree about the greedy but not sure red wall would lap this up. Big name players no more.and our best players go abroad.
    Maybe they'd bridle a bit at that. But you know the peculiar love/hate relationship the modern fan has with their footballers? How their adoration so easily tips into contempt? I think this comes from the enormous disconnect there now is between them.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.
    We're European Royalty, we always get invited to stuff like this.

    Remember we've won more European Cups/CLs than United, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea, and Leicester.

    In fact we've won more than the entire current PL combined.
    I'm not sure everyone in Liverpool will be as delighted as you. Kiss goodbye to the Merseyside derby. All that Liverpool-Everton history, trashed

    I imagine Newcastle United aren't overly chuffed, either. All these big historic clubs excluded. Aston Villa? And so on

    Newcastle haven't won England's top title since 1927 (when HM The Queen was a year old), their last major honour was 52 years ago.

    Newcastle United aren't a big club.

    They are the Tottenham of the North East.
    I know you're trolling, but this is a serious point

    Newcastle are English football royalty. Their fans are amazing, loyal and funny, despite all that disappointment. The day of a big match in Newcastle - eg Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal - has an intense atmosphere, I've experienced it

    Now all that will go. It is tremendously sad
    Yes. It is special.
    Mostly because it is possibly the only ground still slap bang in the middle of a major city centre.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,490
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Israel to allow vaccinated tourists in from next month: https://www.foxnews.com/travel/israel-welcoming-vaccinated-tourist-groups-may

    Rather than having red and green list countries, why not restrict travel to the fully vaccinated?
    Or just have no travel. By which I mean nearly none - not for business-types especially. Merely delivery and supply.

    One thing's for damn sure, and that's that we got CV19 here in the UK from others travelling to us. (That sounds very xenophobic, but its not what I mean at all - its just travel that's caused this)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.
    We're European Royalty, we always get invited to stuff like this.

    Remember we've won more European Cups/CLs than United, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea, and Leicester.

    In fact we've won more than the entire current PL combined.
    I'm not sure everyone in Liverpool will be as delighted as you. Kiss goodbye to the Merseyside derby. All that Liverpool-Everton history, trashed

    I imagine Newcastle United aren't overly chuffed, either. All these big historic clubs excluded. Aston Villa? And so on

    Newcastle haven't won England's top title since 1927 (when HM The Queen was a year old), their last major honour was 52 years ago.

    Newcastle United aren't a big club.

    They are the Tottenham of the North East.
    I know you're trolling, but this is a serious point

    Newcastle are English football royalty. Their fans are amazing, loyal and funny, despite all that disappointment. The day of a big match in Newcastle - eg Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal - has an intense atmosphere, I've experienced it

    Now all that will go. It is tremendously sad
    Yes. It is special.
    Mostly because it is possibly the only ground still slap bang in the middle of a major city centre.
    Bramall Lane?
  • Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.
    We're European Royalty, we always get invited to stuff like this.

    Remember we've won more European Cups/CLs than United, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea, and Leicester.

    In fact we've won more than the entire current PL combined.
    I'm not sure everyone in Liverpool will be as delighted as you. Kiss goodbye to the Merseyside derby. All that Liverpool-Everton history, trashed

    I imagine Newcastle United aren't overly chuffed, either. All these big historic clubs excluded. Aston Villa? And so on

    Newcastle haven't won England's top title since 1927 (when HM The Queen was a year old), their last major honour was 52 years ago.

    Newcastle United aren't a big club.

    They are the Tottenham of the North East.
    We're a big club, we're just not a successful club. Same with Leeds United, Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest, etc.
    Two of those three clubs have won European Cups, the other one made a final where they were on the wrong side of some very dodgy decisions.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,883

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.
    We're European Royalty, we always get invited to stuff like this.

    Remember we've won more European Cups/CLs than United, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea, and Leicester.

    In fact we've won more than the entire current PL combined.
    I'm not sure everyone in Liverpool will be as delighted as you. Kiss goodbye to the Merseyside derby. All that Liverpool-Everton history, trashed

    I imagine Newcastle United aren't overly chuffed, either. All these big historic clubs excluded. Aston Villa? And so on

    Newcastle haven't won England's top title since 1927 (when HM The Queen was a year old), their last major honour was 52 years ago.

    Newcastle United aren't a big club.

    They are the Tottenham of the North East.
    We're a big club, we're just not a successful club. Same with Leeds United, Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest, etc.
    Two of those three clubs have won European Cups, the other one made a final where they were on the wrong side of some very dodgy decisions.
    I'm not sure what relevance that has.
  • dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.
    We're European Royalty, we always get invited to stuff like this.

    Remember we've won more European Cups/CLs than United, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea, and Leicester.

    In fact we've won more than the entire current PL combined.
    I'm not sure everyone in Liverpool will be as delighted as you. Kiss goodbye to the Merseyside derby. All that Liverpool-Everton history, trashed

    I imagine Newcastle United aren't overly chuffed, either. All these big historic clubs excluded. Aston Villa? And so on

    Newcastle haven't won England's top title since 1927 (when HM The Queen was a year old), their last major honour was 52 years ago.

    Newcastle United aren't a big club.

    They are the Tottenham of the North East.
    I know you're trolling, but this is a serious point

    Newcastle are English football royalty. Their fans are amazing, loyal and funny, despite all that disappointment. The day of a big match in Newcastle - eg Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal - has an intense atmosphere, I've experienced it

    Now all that will go. It is tremendously sad
    Yes. It is special.
    Mostly because it is possibly the only ground still slap bang in the middle of a major city centre.
    Bramall Lane kinda qualifies, ok it is not the Moor or Fargate, but still in the city centre of a major City.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,459
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Greedy greedy football. Out of touch. A giant bubble ripe to be pricked. My idea of the way forward? Nationalize without compensation then sell each club for a peppercorn price into local communal ownership. A new 'return to roots and sanity' model with a 'jumpers for goalposts' ethic. Bring back the romance with a £10 entrance fee and subsidized meat pies. One live match per week on TV. Match of the Day at the weekend. Sportsnight with Coleman for big midweek games under the lights. Top players wages capped at 25 x the highest paid member of the groundstaff. Tea lady to work from home if she wants to. I want to hear something like this from Starmer tomorrow. It's time to be bold. The Red Wall will lap this up and so will the Modern Metro Left. It's just what Labour needs.

    If you want Starmer to be bold maybe he should oppose the road map in the direction of restoring liberties?

    Why not ask questions such as: why can't care home residents see family in a normal pre-pandemic way when the resident and the visitor has been vaccinated? How can it be right that vaccinated family members cannot see their loved ones when unvaccinated care home staff can? Why are many pubs and other businesses being allowed to bring in rules which are not required by government regulations, thus prolonging restrictions unnecessarily and inequitably? How can it be right that our government is giving non-UK citizens more freedom to travel than UK citizens? Etc, etc .....

    Could shoot LibDem fox as well.
    I agree with you on most of this - and quite strongly in fact re care homes - but I don't think the politics of opposing the roadmap as too slow would play well for Labour. I would, however, expect them to oppose vaccine passports in the (imo) unlikely event of them becoming a serious prospect.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 616

    This thread from The Netherlands shows why Huawei should be considered an arm of the Chinese (surveillance) state.

    https://twitter.com/MartijnRasser/status/1383769537829502979

    Sure, just as Cisco is an arm of the US surveillance state.

    (Yes, yes, China is worse. I agree! But lets not pretend the US/five eyes hegemony is some innocent player in all this.)

    The bigger problem is that European telcos have outsourced pretty much every technical capability and are simply no longer capable of delivering a modern telecoms network on their own. All they are is a brand, a board & a bunch of financial derivatives used to pay for the subcontractors who do the actual work.

    This is an illuminating article on the topic: https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/how-tech-loses-out/

    Did you know that most EU telcos outsource billing (billing!) to one of two places: either China or Israel? I certainly didn’t!
  • I'm not sure what relevance that has.

    We're talking about the big clubs.

    Sunderland often had full crowds of 47,000, they don't count as a historic big club.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478
    Real and Barca are driving this.
    Why?
    Because they pushed for TV revenue in Spain to go directly to the clubs.
    You watch Real, they get paid. No revenue sharing.
    Unfortunately this has left the League so unbalanced that few outside Spain are interested. Gone are the days of Valencia, Deportivo and Real Sociedad winning the title. It's a 3 team league. And only Simeone's genius is stopping it from being 2.
    So they are trying the same on a bigger scale.
    It was a disaster first time.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719

    I'm not sure what relevance that has.

    We're talking about the big clubs.

    Sunderland often had full crowds of 47,000, they don't count as a historic big club.
    They have as many league titles as Man City and Chelsea.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478
    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.
    We're European Royalty, we always get invited to stuff like this.

    Remember we've won more European Cups/CLs than United, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea, and Leicester.

    In fact we've won more than the entire current PL combined.
    I'm not sure everyone in Liverpool will be as delighted as you. Kiss goodbye to the Merseyside derby. All that Liverpool-Everton history, trashed

    I imagine Newcastle United aren't overly chuffed, either. All these big historic clubs excluded. Aston Villa? And so on

    Newcastle haven't won England's top title since 1927 (when HM The Queen was a year old), their last major honour was 52 years ago.

    Newcastle United aren't a big club.

    They are the Tottenham of the North East.
    I know you're trolling, but this is a serious point

    Newcastle are English football royalty. Their fans are amazing, loyal and funny, despite all that disappointment. The day of a big match in Newcastle - eg Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal - has an intense atmosphere, I've experienced it

    Now all that will go. It is tremendously sad
    Yes. It is special.
    Mostly because it is possibly the only ground still slap bang in the middle of a major city centre.
    Bramall Lane?
    Perhaps. I've never been to Sheffield...
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,490
    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Israel to allow vaccinated tourists in from next month: https://www.foxnews.com/travel/israel-welcoming-vaccinated-tourist-groups-may

    Rather than having red and green list countries, why not restrict travel to the fully vaccinated?
    Or just have no travel. By which I mean nearly none - not for business-types especially. Merely delivery and supply.

    One thing's for damn sure, and that's that we got CV19 here in the UK from others travelling to us. (That sounds very xenophobic, but its not what I mean at all - its just travel that's caused this)
    Actually I'll go a little further. There are some people in the UK who are responsible for mass manslaughter. They knew they shouldn't have travelled and yet they did. They probably self-excuse themselves, but they're completely guilty.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,883
    edited April 18

    I'm not sure what relevance that has.

    We're talking about the big clubs.

    Sunderland often had full crowds of 47,000, they don't count as a historic big club.
    Yeah, we're talking about big clubs. Not successful clubs.

    Arsenal have never won the European Cup or the Champions League, if that's your benchmark.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 97,887
    edited April 18
    dixiedean said:

    Real and Barca are driving this.
    Why?
    Because they pushed for TV revenue in Spain to go directly to the clubs.
    You watch Real, they get paid. No revenue sharing.
    Unfortunately this has left the League so unbalanced that few outside Spain are interested. Gone are the days of Valencia, Deportivo and Real Sociedad winning the title. It's a 3 team league. And only Simeone's genius is stopping it from being 2.
    So they are trying the same on a bigger scale.
    It was a disaster first time.

    Real Madrid and Barcelona thought the good times would never end.

    Plus they overpaid for players (both in fees and salaries) for too long.

    I mean they spent £142 million on Coutinho, £120 million on Griezman, £108 million on Dembele, that's pissing away some serious money.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719
    dixiedean said:

    Real and Barca are driving this.
    Why?
    Because they pushed for TV revenue in Spain to go directly to the clubs.
    You watch Real, they get paid. No revenue sharing.
    Unfortunately this has left the League so unbalanced that few outside Spain are interested. Gone are the days of Valencia, Deportivo and Real Sociedad winning the title. It's a 3 team league. And only Simeone's genius is stopping it from being 2.
    So they are trying the same on a bigger scale.
    It was a disaster first time.

    This is the thing. A super league won't be like the NFL where any team can win it. Real and Barca will **** the others.
  • I'm not sure what relevance that has.

    We're talking about the big clubs.

    Sunderland often had full crowds of 47,000, they don't count as a historic big club.
    Yeah, we're talking about big clubs. Not successful clubs.

    Arsenal have never won the European Cup or the Champions League, if that's your benchmark.
    But they've won England's top flight a few times in recent years.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    dixiedean said:

    Real and Barca are driving this.
    Why?
    Because they pushed for TV revenue in Spain to go directly to the clubs.
    You watch Real, they get paid. No revenue sharing.
    Unfortunately this has left the League so unbalanced that few outside Spain are interested. Gone are the days of Valencia, Deportivo and Real Sociedad winning the title. It's a 3 team league. And only Simeone's genius is stopping it from being 2.
    So they are trying the same on a bigger scale.
    It was a disaster first time.

    And the big Italian clubs, for the same reason

    They're all maddened by the success of the EPL and want EPL type money. This does that, and destroys the EPL in the process

    I am just stunned that the English clubs are so shortsighted and greedy they have now agreed

    However every non-invited club in Spain and Italy will hate it, as will their fans. The pushback against this will be enormous

    Quite a battle coming. I wonder if governments will get involved. This is the most popular sport in the world
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,459

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Greedy greedy football. Out of touch. A giant bubble ripe to be pricked. My idea of the way forward? Nationalize without compensation then sell each club for a peppercorn price into local communal ownership. A new 'return to roots and sanity' model with a 'jumpers for goalposts' ethic. Bring back the romance with a £10 entrance fee and subsidized meat pies. One live match per week on TV. Match of the Day at the weekend. Sportsnight with Coleman for big midweek games under the lights. Top players wages capped at 25 x the highest paid member of the groundstaff. Tea lady to work from home if she wants to. I want to hear something like this from Starmer tomorrow. It's time to be bold. The Red Wall will lap this up and so will the Modern Metro Left. It's just what Labour needs.

    Agree about the greedy but not sure red wall would lap this up. Big name players no more.and our best players go abroad.
    It’ll go down well in the NE if it triggers a resurgence of their teams. Imagine Darlington and Hartlepool returning to the Football League!
    Hartlepool. Hmm. Interesting thought.
  • dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.
    We're European Royalty, we always get invited to stuff like this.

    Remember we've won more European Cups/CLs than United, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea, and Leicester.

    In fact we've won more than the entire current PL combined.
    I'm not sure everyone in Liverpool will be as delighted as you. Kiss goodbye to the Merseyside derby. All that Liverpool-Everton history, trashed

    I imagine Newcastle United aren't overly chuffed, either. All these big historic clubs excluded. Aston Villa? And so on

    Newcastle haven't won England's top title since 1927 (when HM The Queen was a year old), their last major honour was 52 years ago.

    Newcastle United aren't a big club.

    They are the Tottenham of the North East.
    I know you're trolling, but this is a serious point

    Newcastle are English football royalty. Their fans are amazing, loyal and funny, despite all that disappointment. The day of a big match in Newcastle - eg Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal - has an intense atmosphere, I've experienced it

    Now all that will go. It is tremendously sad
    Yes. It is special.
    Mostly because it is possibly the only ground still slap bang in the middle of a major city centre.
    Bramall Lane?
    Perhaps. I've never been to Sheffield...
    Oh boy, you have really missed out.

    Once the plague is over, you should come to Sheffield.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,883

    I'm not sure what relevance that has.

    We're talking about the big clubs.

    Sunderland often had full crowds of 47,000, they don't count as a historic big club.
    Yeah, we're talking about big clubs. Not successful clubs.

    Arsenal have never won the European Cup or the Champions League, if that's your benchmark.
    But they've won England's top flight a few times in recent years.
    How many times have Liverpool won England's top flight in recent years?
  • I'm not sure what relevance that has.

    We're talking about the big clubs.

    Sunderland often had full crowds of 47,000, they don't count as a historic big club.
    Yeah, we're talking about big clubs. Not successful clubs.

    Arsenal have never won the European Cup or the Champions League, if that's your benchmark.
    But they've won England's top flight a few times in recent years.
    How many times have Liverpool won England's top flight in recent years?
    Once.

    But we've been to four Champions League finals in the last decade and a half, winning two of them.

    There's a few factors that make you a big club.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478

    I'm not sure what relevance that has.

    We're talking about the big clubs.

    Sunderland often had full crowds of 47,000, they don't count as a historic big club.
    Yeah, we're talking about big clubs. Not successful clubs.

    Arsenal have never won the European Cup or the Champions League, if that's your benchmark.
    Yeah.
    Steau Bucharest will be waiting a while for their invite I would wager.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,883

    I'm not sure what relevance that has.

    We're talking about the big clubs.

    Sunderland often had full crowds of 47,000, they don't count as a historic big club.
    Yeah, we're talking about big clubs. Not successful clubs.

    Arsenal have never won the European Cup or the Champions League, if that's your benchmark.
    But they've won England's top flight a few times in recent years.
    How many times have Liverpool won England's top flight in recent years?
    Once.
    Thank you. I think we'll leave it there.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,720
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I did, once. Hated it

    Any other helpful suggestions?!

    Buy a Mac and stop whining?
    I do love the bonhomie and helpfulness of PB at these times of distress
    I read about some reports of this on Google news today - I think there are fixes but I'm not technical. Scroll through the Google news tech stories.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    For once, I hope and suspect Mr Lineker is right


    Gary Lineker
    @GaryLineker
    ·
    43m
    Sense this Super League plot will die on its preposterous and avaricious arse.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,883
    Anyway I think you'll find that the mighty Newcastle United triumphed in the prestigious UEFA Intertoto Cup in 2006 and were runners up in 2001.

    Furthermore the mighty Newcastle United swept to the Championship title twice in recent years, the very trophy that Liverpool's entire history is based on.

    The trophy cabinet is packed to the rafters, I tell ya.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,826
    My favourite football fact is that in the 1950s players for Grimsby Town apparently used to be paid in fish rather than money.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,484
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ON topic, a question for PB software brainiacs.

    My laptop has just frozen during a Windows 10 update

    "50% completed, do not switch off"

    It's just stuck on that and has been stuck for hours. It won't even switch off if I press the off button hard and long

    Anything else I can do?!

    Buy a MacBook.
    I did, once. Hated it

    Any other helpful suggestions?!
    Dell XPS 13 is the best windows laptop if you're not a Mac person.
    I much prefer Lenovo Thinkpad
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    edited April 18
    And Nottinghamshire still can’t buy a win in proper cricket...Warwickshire chase 333 to win on the last day.

    I don’t know what muppet made Notts 9-1 for the championship. Leicestershire have a better record than they do in the last two years.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,720
    felix said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I did, once. Hated it

    Any other helpful suggestions?!

    Buy a Mac and stop whining?
    I do love the bonhomie and helpfulness of PB at these times of distress
    I read about some reports of this on Google news today - I think there are fixes but I'm not technical. Scroll through the Google news tech stories.
    @Leon

    KB5001330 is the update which has caused problems although installed on mine 4 days ago without problem. If this is the one search online for the fixes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    felix said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I did, once. Hated it

    Any other helpful suggestions?!

    Buy a Mac and stop whining?
    I do love the bonhomie and helpfulness of PB at these times of distress
    I read about some reports of this on Google news today - I think there are fixes but I'm not technical. Scroll through the Google news tech stories.
    Gracias, but it fixed itself, I am happy to say. Suspect it was just a slooooooooooooow update
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,722

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.
    We're European Royalty, we always get invited to stuff like this.

    Remember we've won more European Cups/CLs than United, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea, and Leicester.

    In fact we've won more than the entire current PL combined.
    I'm not sure everyone in Liverpool will be as delighted as you. Kiss goodbye to the Merseyside derby. All that Liverpool-Everton history, trashed

    I imagine Newcastle United aren't overly chuffed, either. All these big historic clubs excluded. Aston Villa? And so on

    Newcastle haven't won England's top title since 1927 (when HM The Queen was a year old), their last major honour was 52 years ago.

    Newcastle United aren't a big club.

    They are the Tottenham of the North East.
    We're a big club, we're just not a successful club. Same with Leeds United, Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest, etc.
    At least if the big Six leave, Everton will be in with a real shot of some titles.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,459

    kinabalu said:

    Greedy greedy football. Out of touch. A giant bubble ripe to be pricked. My idea of the way forward? Nationalize without compensation then sell each club for a peppercorn price into local communal ownership. A new 'return to roots and sanity' model with a 'jumpers for goalposts' ethic. Bring back the romance with a £10 entrance fee and subsidized meat pies. One live match per week on TV. Match of the Day at the weekend. Sportsnight with Coleman for big midweek games under the lights. Top players wages capped at 25 x the highest paid member of the groundstaff. Tea lady to work from home if she wants to. I want to hear something like this from Starmer tomorrow. It's time to be bold. The Red Wall will lap this up and so will the Modern Metro Left. It's just what Labour needs.

    Complete garbage. The red wall love football and when the top players exodus and we are all watching the equivalent of league 1 it will not be popular.
    My proposal was more tonal than literal. But as to what the fans want - I doubt that most of them want all accessible live football in this country to become a poor relation of an elitist pan european 'superleague' that you can only stare at on giant tv screens in pubs.

    That's souless. It's 'football from nowhere rather than from somewhere". How can anyone be desperate to leave the EU single market and yet be happy with that?

    No, I think I'm reading the Red Wall better than you here. Tonally, I mean, not literally.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 3,605
    Andy_JS said:

    My favourite football fact is that in the 1950s players for Grimsby Town apparently used to be paid in fish rather than money.

    Sounds like codswallop to me.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719
    Gary Neville is close to tears.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Greedy greedy football. Out of touch. A giant bubble ripe to be pricked. My idea of the way forward? Nationalize without compensation then sell each club for a peppercorn price into local communal ownership. A new 'return to roots and sanity' model with a 'jumpers for goalposts' ethic. Bring back the romance with a £10 entrance fee and subsidized meat pies. One live match per week on TV. Match of the Day at the weekend. Sportsnight with Coleman for big midweek games under the lights. Top players wages capped at 25 x the highest paid member of the groundstaff. Tea lady to work from home if she wants to. I want to hear something like this from Starmer tomorrow. It's time to be bold. The Red Wall will lap this up and so will the Modern Metro Left. It's just what Labour needs.

    Complete garbage. The red wall love football and when the top players exodus and we are all watching the equivalent of league 1 it will not be popular.
    My proposal was more tonal than literal. But as to what the fans want - I doubt that most of them want all accessible live football in this country to become a poor relation of an elitist pan european 'superleague' that you can only stare at on giant tv screens in pubs.

    That's souless. It's 'football from nowhere rather than from somewhere". How can anyone be desperate to leave the EU single market and yet be happy with that?

    No, I think I'm reading the Red Wall better than you here. Tonally, I mean, not literally.
    Your solution is ridiculous nostalgic nonsense HOWEVER you are right that there is maybe an opening for Starmer here. Opposing corporate greed and thereby saving English football, what's not to like for a Labour leader?

    He should apply himself to this. It's a huge story
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    tlg86 said:

    Gary Neville is close to tears.

    Why? Is he a Notts fan?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,406

    Anyway I think you'll find that the mighty Newcastle United triumphed in the prestigious UEFA Intertoto Cup in 2006 and were runners up in 2001.

    Furthermore the mighty Newcastle United swept to the Championship title twice in recent years, the very trophy that Liverpool's entire history is based on.

    The trophy cabinet is packed to the rafters, I tell ya.

    The Championship? Liverpool have won the Second Division 4 times but its not a key part of the clubs trophy list.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Israel to allow vaccinated tourists in from next month: https://www.foxnews.com/travel/israel-welcoming-vaccinated-tourist-groups-may

    Rather than having red and green list countries, why not restrict travel to the fully vaccinated?
    Or just have no travel. By which I mean nearly none - not for business-types especially. Merely delivery and supply.

    One thing's for damn sure, and that's that we got CV19 here in the UK from others travelling to us. (That sounds very xenophobic, but its not what I mean at all - its just travel that's caused this)
    If no-one was allowed to ever leave their houses and everyone wore hazmat suits, then diseases wouldn't be able to spread at all!

  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    stodge said:

    The obvious solution is to apply horse racing principles to football and treat the Premier League as a handicap.

    The bookies do it every year - you can bet on the Premier League with, for example, Man City starting at scratch

    Arsenal (+24)
    Aston Villa (+50)
    Brighton (+47)
    Burnley (+47)
    Chelsea (+14)
    Crystal Palace (+49)
    Everton (+35)
    Fulham (+52)
    Leeds (+40)
    Leicester (+32)
    Liverpool (+4)
    Manchester City (scr)
    Manchester Utd (+16)
    Newcastle (+47)
    Sheffield United (+46)
    Southampton (+40)
    Tottenham (+26)
    West Brom (+53)
    West Ham (+44)
    Wolves (+31)

    Now, if you ran the real season that way it would be much more exciting. West Ham would be leading that I would guess at the moment.

    That's what they try to do in the USA with gridiron by the draft and salary cap.. isn't it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Israel to allow vaccinated tourists in from next month: https://www.foxnews.com/travel/israel-welcoming-vaccinated-tourist-groups-may

    Rather than having red and green list countries, why not restrict travel to the fully vaccinated?
    Or just have no travel. By which I mean nearly none - not for business-types especially. Merely delivery and supply.

    One thing's for damn sure, and that's that we got CV19 here in the UK from others travelling to us. (That sounds very xenophobic, but its not what I mean at all - its just travel that's caused this)
    If no-one was allowed to ever leave their houses and everyone wore hazmat suits, then diseases wouldn't be able to spread at all!

    Don’t, whatever you do, suggest that to the stupid cow advising the DfE. She’s mad enough and useless enough to do it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562

    London Mayor says take a Lateral Flow Test before you go out today.

    Phwoah.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,406
    edited April 18

    I'm not sure what relevance that has.

    We're talking about the big clubs.

    Sunderland often had full crowds of 47,000, they don't count as a historic big club.
    Yeah, we're talking about big clubs. Not successful clubs.

    Arsenal have never won the European Cup or the Champions League, if that's your benchmark.
    But they've won England's top flight a few times in recent years.
    How many times have Liverpool won England's top flight in recent years?
    Incumbent Champions, don't get more recent than that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    Ed Davey is already on it! Go the Lib Dems


    Ed Davey MP
    @EdwardJDavey
    ·
    17m
    This is greed personified, ripping the heart out of the English game, leaving clubs up and down the country to suffer after an awful year.

    The govt must take all action possible to stop this from happening and save the beautiful game.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,526
    edited April 18
    Andy_JS said:

    My favourite football fact is that in the 1950s players for Grimsby Town apparently used to be paid in fish rather than money.

    Their fans still chant "Feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh"

    (A friend who is a crazy keen fan just "accidentally" happened to be visiting me when they played Torquay, a few years back. So I stood with him - and the surprising number who had made the 12 hour round trip - in the visitors stand. They were a good bunch. Quality of footy was shite, mind. Today's news will barely register for them.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    ping said:

    Seems to me like it was only a matter of time before football was sold to the highest bidder. No doubt we’ll soon be watching franchise clubs playing in Riyadh. It was good while it lasted. RIP

    Wait. Have you missed the last twenty-five years?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,883

    Anyway I think you'll find that the mighty Newcastle United triumphed in the prestigious UEFA Intertoto Cup in 2006 and were runners up in 2001.

    Furthermore the mighty Newcastle United swept to the Championship title twice in recent years, the very trophy that Liverpool's entire history is based on.

    The trophy cabinet is packed to the rafters, I tell ya.

    The Championship? Liverpool have won the Second Division 4 times but its not a key part of the clubs trophy list.
    Way to spectacularly miss the point. It was a joke mate.

    The Championship winner gets given the same trophy the winners of the First Division used to receive. I believe you have 18 of them.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,719
    Man Utd will be annoyed that this has come out whilst they were playing. Neville laying into his own club is not good.

    LOL: He's now saying strip them of their titles. I support that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    JPMorgan (who are funding this American takeover of European football) are..... not overly popular on Twitter
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    Leon said:

    JPMorgan (who are funding this American takeover of European football) are..... not overly popular on Twitter

    Have they ever been?
  • ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    JPMorgan (who are funding this American takeover of European football) are..... not overly popular on Twitter

    Have they ever been?
    Everyone loves bankers, almost as much as they love lawyers.

    JP Morgan are so buggered if this has made them unpopular.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,308

    I'm not sure what relevance that has.

    We're talking about the big clubs.

    Sunderland often had full crowds of 47,000, they don't count as a historic big club.
    Yeah, we're talking about big clubs. Not successful clubs.

    Arsenal have never won the European Cup or the Champions League, if that's your benchmark.
    But they've won England's top flight a few times in recent years.
    How many times have Liverpool won England's top flight in recent years?
    Incumbent Champions, don't get more recent than that.
    Once is the correct answer as Liverpool cannot catch City this season
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    JPMorgan (who are funding this American takeover of European football) are..... not overly popular on Twitter

    Have they ever been?
    Everyone loves bankers, almost as much as they love lawyers.

    JP Morgan are so buggered if this has made them unpopular.
    Surely, they love bankers in the same way as they love lawyers?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    JPMorgan (who are funding this American takeover of European football) are..... not overly popular on Twitter

    Have they ever been?
    Hah, yeah - true

    I think I have just discovered the firebrand lefty in myself. I am furiously agreeing with Lineker and Gary Neville

    Took football to do it. Funny old world
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,308
    tlg86 said:

    Man Utd will be annoyed that this has come out whilst they were playing. Neville laying into his own club is not good.

    LOL: He's now saying strip them of their titles. I support that.

    Just heard this nonsense reportedly backed with 6 billion funding

    This is wrong on so many levels
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,459
    edited April 18
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Greedy greedy football. Out of touch. A giant bubble ripe to be pricked. My idea of the way forward? Nationalize without compensation then sell each club for a peppercorn price into local communal ownership. A new 'return to roots and sanity' model with a 'jumpers for goalposts' ethic. Bring back the romance with a £10 entrance fee and subsidized meat pies. One live match per week on TV. Match of the Day at the weekend. Sportsnight with Coleman for big midweek games under the lights. Top players wages capped at 25 x the highest paid member of the groundstaff. Tea lady to work from home if she wants to. I want to hear something like this from Starmer tomorrow. It's time to be bold. The Red Wall will lap this up and so will the Modern Metro Left. It's just what Labour needs.

    Complete garbage. The red wall love football and when the top players exodus and we are all watching the equivalent of league 1 it will not be popular.
    My proposal was more tonal than literal. But as to what the fans want - I doubt that most of them want all accessible live football in this country to become a poor relation of an elitist pan european 'superleague' that you can only stare at on giant tv screens in pubs.

    That's souless. It's 'football from nowhere rather than from somewhere". How can anyone be desperate to leave the EU single market and yet be happy with that?

    No, I think I'm reading the Red Wall better than you here. Tonally, I mean, not literally.
    Your solution is ridiculous nostalgic nonsense HOWEVER you are right that there is maybe an opening for Starmer here. Opposing corporate greed and thereby saving English football, what's not to like for a Labour leader?

    He should apply himself to this. It's a huge story
    I was stretching, obviously, but there's a serious and very serviceable point in there. You don't have to just lie down in front of "the market", especially on things as important as football (and it is). The market gets it horribly wrong sometimes. A common theme, when it does, is that a small number of people - the few - coin it for a period, and as a consequence of their behaviour in doing that "coining", the longer term outcome for the many in the sector (and often wider) is compromised. I think football shows all the signs of being such a sector. Have thought so for a while and this development only reinforces my view. That said, I agree with the great Lineker and the less great you that it won't fly. The hubris is too blatant. There's too much 'masters of the universe' about it. It's taking the piss.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,826
    Wouldn't it be funny if people suddenly got fed up with football and all the money in the game disappeared overnight.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Wouldn't it be funny if people suddenly got fed up with football and all the money in the game disappeared overnight.

    No.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,910
    edited April 18
    Does anyone know what the actual purpose of some of these farcical "pilot" sporting events actually is? Don't get me wrong, it's better to have crowds that not, but what are the authorities actually expecting to learn from having 4,000 people within 90,000 capacity Wembley stadium?

    We've been in this pandemic for over a year. Surely we know enough about this virus by now to know that there really aren't significant risks from such an event. Or certainly no significant risks compared to what currently happens on the tube every day, let alone within large shopping centres or high streets.

    And when in a couple of weeks they are having a 5,000 ticket "gig" with no masks or social distancing in Liverpool?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    edited April 18
    Andy_JS said:

    Wouldn't it be funny if people suddenly got fed up with football and all the money in the game disappeared overnight.

    Isn’t that the whole point of the Hundred?

    (Autocorrect made that the ‘hindred,’ which works for me too.)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055

    tlg86 said:

    Man Utd will be annoyed that this has come out whilst they were playing. Neville laying into his own club is not good.

    LOL: He's now saying strip them of their titles. I support that.

    Just heard this nonsense reportedly backed with 6 billion funding

    This is wrong on so many levels
    It is £5bn borrowed against future cashflow from the Superleague

    But what if it flops? Will people really want to watch Juventus v Arsenal five times a year, year in year out, with no threat of relegation? None of the buzz of fast English football with home and away fans in loud voice?

    Half the games will be meaningless. It is possible Barca or Real will win it every year

    Total turn off. Then the money falls away as the TV rights dwindle

    Could easily happen. Even on a basic financial level it seems insanely risky and foolish. So maybe it is just a bluff to bully UEFA





  • alex_ said:

    Does anyone know what the actual purpose of some of these farcical "pilot" sporting events actually is? Don't get me wrong, it's better to have crowds that not, but what are the authorities actually expecting to learn from having 4,000 people within 90,000 capacity Wembley stadium?

    We've been in this pandemic for over a year. Surely we know enough about this virus by now to know that there really aren't significant risks from such an event. Or certainly no significant risks compared to what currently happens on the tube every day, let alone within large shopping centres or high streets.

    To understand what happens getting to and from the match.

    For a lot of stadia the only way to get to them is via public transport.

    60,000 fans leaving the Emirates via the tube might have issues which the authorities want to understand.
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