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Ipsos MORI finds for the first time in a year optimists outnumber pessimists – politicalbetting.com

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  • Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Man Utd will be annoyed that this has come out whilst they were playing. Neville laying into his own club is not good.

    LOL: He's now saying strip them of their titles. I support that.

    Just heard this nonsense reportedly backed with 6 billion funding

    This is wrong on so many levels
    It is £5bn borrowed against future cashflow from the Superleague

    But what if it flops? Will people really want to watch Juventus v Arsenal five times a year, year in year out, with no threat of relegation? None of the buzz of fast English football with home and away fans in loud voice?

    Half the games will be meaningless. It is possible Barca or Real will win it every year

    Total turn off. Then the money falls away as the TV rights dwindle

    Could easily happen. Even on a basic financial level it seems insanely risky and foolish. So maybe it is just a bluff to bully UEFA


    To be honest it would be a disaster for everyone who loves football and I am not paying any more for football tv
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    ping said:

    Seems to me like it was only a matter of time before football was sold to the highest bidder. No doubt we’ll soon be watching franchise clubs playing in Riyadh. It was good while it lasted. RIP

    Well of course. Once the closed shop has been instigated then the clubs will just become "brands" that can be picked up and moved to another location for commercial purposes.

    Goodbye Liverpool, hello Riyadh Reds, as you say.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,863
    And even better for Starmer is that we all know "Boris" has no clue or feel for the game. If he tries to fake it - pretend he has a single clue or gives a single care about anything to do with football - the shrewdies in the Red Wall will laugh him out of town.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,093
    Leon said:

    For once, I hope and suspect Mr Lineker is right


    Gary Lineker
    @GaryLineker
    ·
    43m
    Sense this Super League plot will die on its preposterous and avaricious arse.

    It's got the air of a threat, rather than a plan, which leads to the question of what the clubs and bankers are after from UEFA.

    The other thing (which I don't know, following Portsmouth makes it kinda irrelevant)- what's the balance of local to global revenue like for top soccer clubs these days? We might care if they become avaricious nowheresville franchises, but those watching on a screen halfway across the world won't.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    Does anyone know what the actual purpose of some of these farcical "pilot" sporting events actually is? Don't get me wrong, it's better to have crowds that not, but what are the authorities actually expecting to learn from having 4,000 people within 90,000 capacity Wembley stadium?

    We've been in this pandemic for over a year. Surely we know enough about this virus by now to know that there really aren't significant risks from such an event. Or certainly no significant risks compared to what currently happens on the tube every day, let alone within large shopping centres or high streets.

    To understand what happens getting to and from the match.

    For a lot of stadia the only way to get to them is via public transport.

    60,000 fans leaving the Emirates via the tube might have issues which the authorities want to understand.
    Fair enough.... but colour me sceptical. 4,000 local Brent residents travelling to Wembley is hardly 60,000 travelling to the Emirates from all over London/the country.
  • kinabalu said:

    And even better for Starmer is that we all know "Boris" has no clue or feel for the game. If he tries to fake it - pretend he has a single clue or gives a single care about anything to do with football - the shrewdies in the Red Wall will laugh him out of town.

    Confusing West Ham and Aston Villa didn't do Dave (pbuh) any harm.
  • alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Does anyone know what the actual purpose of some of these farcical "pilot" sporting events actually is? Don't get me wrong, it's better to have crowds that not, but what are the authorities actually expecting to learn from having 4,000 people within 90,000 capacity Wembley stadium?

    We've been in this pandemic for over a year. Surely we know enough about this virus by now to know that there really aren't significant risks from such an event. Or certainly no significant risks compared to what currently happens on the tube every day, let alone within large shopping centres or high streets.

    To understand what happens getting to and from the match.

    For a lot of stadia the only way to get to them is via public transport.

    60,000 fans leaving the Emirates via the tube might have issues which the authorities want to understand.
    Fair enough.... but colour me sceptical. 4,000 local Brent residents travelling to Wembley is hardly 60,000 travelling to the Emirates from all over London/the country.
    It isn't the only issue.

    It is things like going through the turnstiles, and the few entrance points to your seat.

    Also what happens if 4,000 people go for a piss at half time?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,842

    ping said:

    Seems to me like it was only a matter of time before football was sold to the highest bidder. No doubt we’ll soon be watching franchise clubs playing in Riyadh. It was good while it lasted. RIP


    Goodbye Liverpool, hello Riyadh Reds, as you say.
    So. Some serious upsides then?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,096
    edited April 2021

    dixiedean said:

    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Well now

    A group of the world’s richest and most storied soccer clubs has agreed in principle on a plan to create a breakaway European club competition that would, if it comes to fruition, upend the structures, economics and relationships that have bound global soccer for nearly a century.

    After months of secret talks, the breakaway teams — which include Real Madrid and Barcelona in Spain, Manchester United and Liverpool in England, and Juventus and A.C. Milan in Italy — could make an announcement as early as Sunday, according to multiple people familiar with the plans.

    The timing of the announcement appears designed to overshadow Monday’s plan by European soccer’s governing body, UEFA, to ratify a newly designed Champions League, a competition which would be decimated by the departure of its biggest teams.

    At least 12 teams have either signed up as founding members or expressed interest in joining the breakaway group, including six prominent teams from England’s Premier League, three from Spain and three from Italy, according to the people with knowledge of the plans.

    The group has been trying to get other top teams, like Germany’s Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund, to commit, but to date those clubs — and others — have declined to turn their backs on the decades-old domestic structures and Continental competitions that have underpinned European soccer for generations.

    The French champion Paris Saint-Germain, for example, has been invited to join but has so far resisted the overtures. Its president, Nasser al-Khelaifi, sits on the UEFA board and also heads beIN Media Group, the Qatar-based television network that has paid millions of dollars to UEFA for the right to broadcast Champions League games.

    The teams committed to the super league plan are, for the moment, limited to almost a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

    The New York Times contacted a number of clubs involved in the breakaway plans but all declined to comment or did not respond. A UEFA spokesman did not immediately return a request for comment.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/sports/soccer/super-league-united-liverpool-juventus-madrid.html

    https://news.sky.com/story/european-super-league-plans-set-to-be-announced-six-english-teams-involved-sky-news-understands-12279432

    The way it currently is works, in general. I get big clubs are greedy and arrogant, but I don't think I've ever seen one of these European or Premier League revamp proposals, and sadly they usually involve Liverpool, that would seem to benefit fans at all. They cannot even come up with something that even looks like it is not for their own benefit alone, and when people don't even hide their self interested avarice it is a bad sign.
    We're European Royalty, we always get invited to stuff like this.

    Remember we've won more European Cups/CLs than United, City, Arsenal, Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea, and Leicester.

    In fact we've won more than the entire current PL combined.
    I'm not sure everyone in Liverpool will be as delighted as you. Kiss goodbye to the Merseyside derby. All that Liverpool-Everton history, trashed

    I imagine Newcastle United aren't overly chuffed, either. All these big historic clubs excluded. Aston Villa? And so on

    Newcastle haven't won England's top title since 1927 (when HM The Queen was a year old), their last major honour was 52 years ago.

    Newcastle United aren't a big club.

    They are the Tottenham of the North East.
    I know you're trolling, but this is a serious point

    Newcastle are English football royalty. Their fans are amazing, loyal and funny, despite all that disappointment. The day of a big match in Newcastle - eg Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal - has an intense atmosphere, I've experienced it

    Now all that will go. It is tremendously sad
    Yes. It is special.
    Mostly because it is possibly the only ground still slap bang in the middle of a major city centre.
    Bramall Lane?
    Perhaps. I've never been to Sheffield...
    Oh boy, you have really missed out.

    Once the plague is over, you should come to Sheffield.
    I quite like Sheffield.

    I noticed that the Italian restaurant there has adapted its offering to local tastes; asking whether you want chips with whatever you order. Lasagna and chips; close your eyes and you could be in Tuscany....
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Andy_JS said:

    Wouldn't it be funny if people suddenly got fed up with football and all the money in the game disappeared overnight.

    What would be funnier is if the project flopped and the breakaway clubs had to come crawling back again.

    Let them back in, but make them start somewhere close to the bottom of the pyramid. Not League 2, Isthmian League Division One North, or some such thing.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,964
    Anybody who thinks Starmer can score a goal against Boris with the Red Wall just needs to watch this. Against Germany.

    "Fucking legend that Boris...."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWIUp19bBoA&ab_channel=Ellisaacson
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Why are Arsenal even being mentioned for this Euro super league. They're NINTH in the Prem. Ridiculous
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    dixiedean said:

    ping said:

    Seems to me like it was only a matter of time before football was sold to the highest bidder. No doubt we’ll soon be watching franchise clubs playing in Riyadh. It was good while it lasted. RIP


    Goodbye Liverpool, hello Riyadh Reds, as you say.
    So. Some serious upsides then?
    LOL! Depends on your point of view, I suppose :smile:
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    ping said:

    Seems to me like it was only a matter of time before football was sold to the highest bidder. No doubt we’ll soon be watching franchise clubs playing in Riyadh. It was good while it lasted. RIP

    Well of course. Once the closed shop has been instigated then the clubs will just become "brands" that can be picked up and moved to another location for commercial purposes.

    Goodbye Liverpool, hello Riyadh Reds, as you say.
    They can try it, but... it feels as if a lot of the clubs driving this have either American owners brought up on the Franchise models of US sport, or places like Spain where there has long been a clear split between the top 2 clubs and the rest. What is successful in some places/sports is not automatically going to translate elsewhere. And if they all move to Asia, well great. It'll just be an Asian league.

    To be successful it's got to kill off everything else - and of all sports, not so sure that is likely in football. It's just too big. And there aren't guarantees that the best players massed in the best teams will generate the most attractive products.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Why are Arsenal even being mentioned for this Euro super league. They're NINTH in the Prem. Ridiculous

    I think because they qualified for the CL like 19 seasons in a row.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    tlg86 said:

    Man Utd will be annoyed that this has come out whilst they were playing. Neville laying into his own club is not good.

    LOL: He's now saying strip them of their titles. I support that.

    I didn't know Salford City were part of this Super league idea....
  • Anybody who thinks Starmer can score a goal against Boris with the Red Wall just needs to watch this. Against Germany.

    "Fucking legend that Boris...."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWIUp19bBoA&ab_channel=Ellisaacson

    Had he forgotten it wasn't Rugby this time?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,309
    edited April 2021
    alex_ said:

    ping said:

    Seems to me like it was only a matter of time before football was sold to the highest bidder. No doubt we’ll soon be watching franchise clubs playing in Riyadh. It was good while it lasted. RIP

    Well of course. Once the closed shop has been instigated then the clubs will just become "brands" that can be picked up and moved to another location for commercial purposes.

    Goodbye Liverpool, hello Riyadh Reds, as you say.
    They can try it, but... it feels as if a lot of the clubs driving this have either American owners brought up on the Franchise models of US sport, or places like Spain where there has long been a clear split between the top 2 clubs and the rest. What is successful in some places/sports is not automatically going to translate elsewhere. And if they all move to Asia, well great. It'll just be an Asian league.

    To be successful it's got to kill off everything else - and of all sports, not so sure that is likely in football. It's just too big. And there aren't guarantees that the best players massed in the best teams will generate the most attractive products.
    Especially if it means the end of an international career for the players, which is quite possible

    And the social media hatred of the players will be something to witness

    Hmm
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    Pulpstar said:

    Why are Arsenal even being mentioned for this Euro super league. They're NINTH in the Prem. Ridiculous

    Well that's the whole point, isn't it?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    I have absolutely no idea what any of you are talking about.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    Pulpstar said:

    Why are Arsenal even being mentioned for this Euro super league. They're NINTH in the Prem. Ridiculous

    I think because they qualified for the CL like 19 seasons in a row.
    You'd have to let Aston Villa in before them if it's about Champion's league history.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,842
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Why are Arsenal even being mentioned for this Euro super league. They're NINTH in the Prem. Ridiculous

    I think because they qualified for the CL like 19 seasons in a row.
    You'd have to let Aston Villa in before them if it's about Champion's league history.
    And Forest and Forest under 23's.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    This thread from The Netherlands shows why Huawei should be considered an arm of the Chinese (surveillance) state.

    https://twitter.com/MartijnRasser/status/1383769537829502979

    Its a good job the EU are standing up to China, especially after their behaviour during COVID pandemic....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Wouldn't it be funny if people suddenly got fed up with football and all the money in the game disappeared overnight.

    Isn’t that the whole point of the Hundred?

    (Autocorrect made that the ‘hindred,’ which works for me too.)
    Already happening, to an extent, with Rugby. So, of course, the prices in Rugby have gone through the roof, the big money has come in and created various scandals....
  • pingping Posts: 3,724
    edited April 2021
    Phil said:

    This thread from The Netherlands shows why Huawei should be considered an arm of the Chinese (surveillance) state.

    https://twitter.com/MartijnRasser/status/1383769537829502979

    Sure, just as Cisco is an arm of the US surveillance state.

    (Yes, yes, China is worse. I agree! But lets not pretend the US/five eyes hegemony is some innocent player in all this.)

    The bigger problem is that European telcos have outsourced pretty much every technical capability and are simply no longer capable of delivering a modern telecoms network on their own. All they are is a brand, a board & a bunch of financial derivatives used to pay for the subcontractors who do the actual work.

    This is an illuminating article on the topic: https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/how-tech-loses-out/

    Did you know that most EU telcos outsource billing (billing!) to one of two places: either China or Israel? I certainly didn’t!
    Interesting read, thanks.

    The linked Boeing paper is also a good read;

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/69746/hart-smith-on-outsourcing.pdf

    Makes me think twice before buying an index tracker.

    Can anyone recommend an active fund that focusses on companies-that-actually-make-stuff?
  • Cyclefree said:

    I have absolutely no idea what any of you are talking about.

    This is going to earn millions for lawyers though
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,842
    edited April 2021
    Here is a pertinent and timely article which explains much...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56793127

    The first line says it all.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    Just thinking about what @TheScreamingEagles said about restraint of trade regarding banning players from international football - you wouldn't actually need to ban them, you just make sure you employ a coach that won't pick them.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Does anyone know what the actual purpose of some of these farcical "pilot" sporting events actually is? Don't get me wrong, it's better to have crowds that not, but what are the authorities actually expecting to learn from having 4,000 people within 90,000 capacity Wembley stadium?

    We've been in this pandemic for over a year. Surely we know enough about this virus by now to know that there really aren't significant risks from such an event. Or certainly no significant risks compared to what currently happens on the tube every day, let alone within large shopping centres or high streets.

    To understand what happens getting to and from the match.

    For a lot of stadia the only way to get to them is via public transport.

    60,000 fans leaving the Emirates via the tube might have issues which the authorities want to understand.
    Fair enough.... but colour me sceptical. 4,000 local Brent residents travelling to Wembley is hardly 60,000 travelling to the Emirates from all over London/the country.
    It isn't the only issue.

    It is things like going through the turnstiles, and the few entrance points to your seat.

    Also what happens if 4,000 people go for a piss at half time?
    On the other hand, official Govt policy is to work towards all restrictions ending in mid June. If all restrictions are lifted then the turnstiles will work in exactly the same way as they ever did. The sort of things you are talking about are planning for a world in which 2m social distancing is a permanent feature of activities, and finding ways to ensure that it can be enforced. Which seems to be to be just pointless, if the intention is for social distancing requirements to disappear. And as i say, frankly, there's no enforced social distancing on the tube, so why at outdoor football pilot matches?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Cyclefree said:

    I have absolutely no idea what any of you are talking about.

    It's a controversy about football. As you are doubtless aware, this is an obsession for a great many men, often to the exclusion of all else, yet which doesn't really matter at all in the great scheme of things.

    Therefore, if you know nothing about it and can't follow any of this then I wouldn't be unduly concerned. I only know as much as I do because (a) I'm a kind of sponge for useless and irrelevant information and (b) I spent some years working with some other men who were obsessed and talked about it endlessly.

    I'd screen it out and move on. It's been a lovely day here. Has it been likewise around your way?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,780
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ON topic, a question for PB software brainiacs.

    My laptop has just frozen during a Windows 10 update

    "50% completed, do not switch off"

    It's just stuck on that and has been stuck for hours. It won't even switch off if I press the off button hard and long

    Anything else I can do?!

    Buy a MacBook.
    I did, once. Hated it

    Any other helpful suggestions?!
    Dell XPS 13 is the best windows laptop if you're not a Mac person.
    I'd kinda like to save my present laptop, if at all possible

    It's a Microsoft Surface, it's newish, and it's by far the best laptop I've ever had (until this glitch)

    Is it not covered by your warranty still if it is newish? Failing that disconnect the battery.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,309
    Cyclefree said:

    I have absolutely no idea what any of you are talking about.

    It is, potentially, quite a big story, politically. Could be an opening for Labour
  • Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I have absolutely no idea what any of you are talking about.

    It is, potentially, quite a big story, politically. Could be an opening for Labour
    That's what I'm thinking about doing the morning thread on.
  • Cyclefree said:

    I have absolutely no idea what any of you are talking about.

    It's a controversy about football. As you are doubtless aware, this is an obsession for a great many men, often to the exclusion of all else, yet which doesn't really matter at all in the great scheme of things.

    Therefore, if you know nothing about it and can't follow any of this then I wouldn't be unduly concerned. I only know as much as I do because (a) I'm a kind of sponge for useless and irrelevant information and (b) I spent some years working with some other men who were obsessed and talked about it endlessly.

    I'd screen it out and move on. It's been a lovely day here. Has it been likewise around your way?
    My former season ticket holding daughter says hello

    As does my late sister who had a season tickets with Hibs
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I have absolutely no idea what any of you are talking about.

    It is, potentially, quite a big story, politically. Could be an opening for Labour
    Given Boris seems to have stolen most of Corybns policies, the one about nationalising football clubs could be next.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    tlg86 said:

    Just thinking about what @TheScreamingEagles said about restraint of trade regarding banning players from international football - you wouldn't actually need to ban them, you just make sure you employ a coach that won't pick them.

    With no legal basis, I doubt banning players from International Football constitutes "restraint of trade". International appearances for footballers are effectively pro-bono work.

    Some people are making comparisons with Packer in cricket, but that was completely different - and was in large part motivated and motivating, by the appalling pay that International cricketers got for their efforts.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631
    UK cases by specimen date

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769
    Cyclefree said:

    I have absolutely no idea what any of you are talking about.

    That’s ironic, because the JP Morgan investment is a classic example of bankers being fuckwits. So very close to your day job!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631
    UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100K

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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,780
    On the break away league I am fractionally torn because EUFA are a deeply corrupt bunch of tossers who wouldn't understand the spirit of the game if you hit them over the head with it. But the EPL is the best product in the footballing world and only a lunatic would think it was economically smart to leave it.

    The Glazers are a lot of things, many of them not particularly good, but they are not lunatics. If the price of the new league is leaving the EPL its a non starter.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631
    UK cases summary

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2021
    This banned from international football...how is it any different from English Rugby saying they won't select anybody who doesn't play in Premiership or New Zealand rugby the same with those not based in NZ / Australia.

    I never understood how that is legal.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,309
    tlg86 said:

    Just thinking about what @TheScreamingEagles said about restraint of trade regarding banning players from international football - you wouldn't actually need to ban them, you just make sure you employ a coach that won't pick them.

    Quite. Also, I'm not sure the law is a problem. eg England Rugby have - or had - a policy of not picking players who went abroad.

    I don't remember any lawsuits from the excluded players?


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/32626996

    So it is perfectly feasible that England the national squad will not choose players from the Superleague. Ditto Italy, Spain

    That is a huge deterrent

    This idea is not going to float
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631
    UK hospitals

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  • tlg86 said:

    Just thinking about what @TheScreamingEagles said about restraint of trade regarding banning players from international football - you wouldn't actually need to ban them, you just make sure you employ a coach that won't pick them.

    Then you're entering constructive dismissal territory as well restraint of trade.

    It will be messy, because every country has their own laws and legal system.

    Mo Salah, who has a four year contract with Liverpool, and he loves playing for Egypt, what does he say to Liverpool if they insist he plays in the Super League?

    What's the remedy (and jurisdiction) for an Egyptian national playing in England?

    I suspect some countries will say the UEFA/FIFA/National Association decision is a restraint of trade, whilst some other countries back UEFA/FIFA/National associations.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631
    UK Deaths

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  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    This banned from international football...how is it any different from English Rugby saying they won't select anybody who doesn't play in Premiership or New Zealand rugby the same with those not based in NZ / Australia.

    I never understood how that is legal.

    I guess international sport isn't employment in the traditional sense. I think players get match fees, but it's not really important in the grand scheme of things.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,863
    Pulpstar said:

    Why are Arsenal even being mentioned for this Euro super league. They're NINTH in the Prem. Ridiculous

    Football aristocracy though. Add a bit of cachet and class. Like getting a lord on the board.
  • Remember when World Series Cricket started in the 1970s the English cricket authorities banned anyone who played World Series Cricket from test cricket.

    It was deemed by the courts as a restraint of trade.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631
    edited April 2021
    UK R

    From hospital admissions

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  • tlg86 said:

    This banned from international football...how is it any different from English Rugby saying they won't select anybody who doesn't play in Premiership or New Zealand rugby the same with those not based in NZ / Australia.

    I never understood how that is legal.

    I guess international sport isn't employment in the traditional sense. I think players get match fees, but it's not really important in the grand scheme of things.
    It is, they get certain percentages of the merchandise/sponsorship deals.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited April 2021
    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Just thinking about what @TheScreamingEagles said about restraint of trade regarding banning players from international football - you wouldn't actually need to ban them, you just make sure you employ a coach that won't pick them.

    Quite. Also, I'm not sure the law is a problem. eg England Rugby have - or had - a policy of not picking players who went abroad.

    I don't remember any lawsuits from the excluded players?


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/32626996

    So it is perfectly feasible that England the national squad will not choose players from the Superleague. Ditto Italy, Spain

    That is a huge deterrent

    This idea is not going to float
    Is it that much of a deterrent? It's not a deterrent to the clubs (in fact some would see it as a bonus). It isn't something that would hit players in the pocket either, so ultimately they would have to live with it. There are players who give up their entire footballing careers to go and warm the bench at large clubs for huge paychecks.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,842

    This banned from international football...how is it any different from English Rugby saying they won't select anybody who doesn't play in Premiership or New Zealand rugby the same with those not based in NZ / Australia.

    I never understood how that is legal.

    They banned every one who played (or even attended) a Rugby League game for Life.
    My Dad had his letter framed. He dug it out when he became Honorary Life President of his RU club.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    alex_ said:

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Just thinking about what @TheScreamingEagles said about restraint of trade regarding banning players from international football - you wouldn't actually need to ban them, you just make sure you employ a coach that won't pick them.

    Quite. Also, I'm not sure the law is a problem. eg England Rugby have - or had - a policy of not picking players who went abroad.

    I don't remember any lawsuits from the excluded players?


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/32626996

    So it is perfectly feasible that England the national squad will not choose players from the Superleague. Ditto Italy, Spain

    That is a huge deterrent

    This idea is not going to float
    Is it that much of a deterrent? It's not a deterrent to the clubs (in fact some would see it as a bonus). It isn't something that would hit players in the pocket either, so ultimately they would have to live with it.
    You would not believe how much it hurts Lionel Messi that he doesn't have a world cup winners medal.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    The rugby situation is even greater than the footy... playing for England rugby is extremely lucrative compared to regular rugby salary. Football, they donate the match fees and their club contracts are obviously mega.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769

    Remember when World Series Cricket started in the 1970s the English cricket authorities banned anyone who played World Series Cricket from test cricket.

    It was deemed by the courts as a restraint of trade.

    Didn’t do English or, for that matter, Australian cricket much good either.

    The ICL is another example, I suppose, although that was ultimately crushed by the IPL.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,309

    This banned from international football...how is it any different from English Rugby saying they won't select anybody who doesn't play in Premiership or New Zealand rugby the same with those not based in NZ / Australia.

    I never understood how that is legal.

    Because they never made it a legal rule, just a "selection policy"? A coach is entitled to select who he/she likes, for whatever reason


    The national coach will be given a policy not to select Superleague players. That ends the international career of anyone in Barca, Real, Man U, Chelsea. A pretty high price to pay, especially when these players are already earning squillions and don't really need more, so money is less of an inducement (unlike the owners)

    I can see players as well as fans rebelling
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,863
    edited April 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Remember when World Series Cricket started in the 1970s the English cricket authorities banned anyone who played World Series Cricket from test cricket.

    It was deemed by the courts as a restraint of trade.

    Didn’t do English or, for that matter, Australian cricket much good either.

    The ICL is another example, I suppose, although that was ultimately crushed by the IPL.
    But WSC had a point. Top cricketers were underpaid. You can't say that about top footballers today.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631
    edited April 2021
    Age related data

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Didn't the Olympics lose their legal battles against life time bans for drug cheats on basis of restraint of trade, but English rugby can openly discriminate, scratches head....how does that work?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    tlg86 said:

    This banned from international football...how is it any different from English Rugby saying they won't select anybody who doesn't play in Premiership or New Zealand rugby the same with those not based in NZ / Australia.

    I never understood how that is legal.

    I guess international sport isn't employment in the traditional sense. I think players get match fees, but it's not really important in the grand scheme of things.
    It is, they get certain percentages of the merchandise/sponsorship deals.
    Are you sure about that? How would that even work? It's not like English cricket where players are employed on central contracts.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631
    Age related data scaled to 100K per age group

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631
    Vaccinations

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  • DavidL said:

    On the break away league I am fractionally torn because EUFA are a deeply corrupt bunch of tossers who wouldn't understand the spirit of the game if you hit them over the head with it. But the EPL is the best product in the footballing world and only a lunatic would think it was economically smart to leave it.

    The Glazers are a lot of things, many of them not particularly good, but they are not lunatics. If the price of the new league is leaving the EPL its a non starter.

    "EUFA"...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    Didn't the Olympics lose their legal battles against life time bans for drug cheats on basis of restraint of trade, but English rugby can openly discriminate, scratches head....how does that work?

    As @Leon says, you can't make a national association select someone.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,631
    England CFR

    image
    image
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2021
    tlg86 said:

    Didn't the Olympics lose their legal battles against life time bans for drug cheats on basis of restraint of trade, but English rugby can openly discriminate, scratches head....how does that work?

    As @Leon says, you can't make a national association select someone.
    Dwain Chambers, 100m sprinter.....he took British Athletics to court when they said they don't ever select somebody who has failed a drug test and they were forced to change their policy.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    Remember when World Series Cricket started in the 1970s the English cricket authorities banned anyone who played World Series Cricket from test cricket.

    It was deemed by the courts as a restraint of trade.

    Didn’t do English or, for that matter, Australian cricket much good either.

    The ICL is another example, I suppose, although that was ultimately crushed by the IPL.
    But WSC had a point. Top cricketers were underpaid. You can't say that about top footballers today.
    Test cricket was THE money earner for cricketers in the 70s. No footballer plays international football for the money. And is suspect that no footballer taking legal action would have the support of their employers, who would see them not playing international football as a benefit. Clubs don't like the idea of their expensive assets putting themselves at risk in international football, and often playing against the medical advice of their clubs.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,842
    Leon said:

    This banned from international football...how is it any different from English Rugby saying they won't select anybody who doesn't play in Premiership or New Zealand rugby the same with those not based in NZ / Australia.

    I never understood how that is legal.

    Because they never made it a legal rule, just a "selection policy"? A coach is entitled to select who he/she likes, for whatever reason


    The national coach will be given a policy not to select Superleague players. That ends the international career of anyone in Barca, Real, Man U, Chelsea. A pretty high price to pay, especially when these players are already earning squillions and don't really need more, so money is less of an inducement (unlike the owners)

    I can see players as well as fans rebelling
    Especially the younger ones.
    Forget internationals. Consider a promising teenager at one of these clubs.
    Most never break the first team properly. But they do go on to have long, lucrative careers lower down the pyramid.
    Except, a single game in this league and they won't.
    I'd be off if I were them. Double quick if this comes to pass.
  • alex_ said:

    tlg86 said:

    This banned from international football...how is it any different from English Rugby saying they won't select anybody who doesn't play in Premiership or New Zealand rugby the same with those not based in NZ / Australia.

    I never understood how that is legal.

    I guess international sport isn't employment in the traditional sense. I think players get match fees, but it's not really important in the grand scheme of things.
    It is, they get certain percentages of the merchandise/sponsorship deals.
    Are you sure about that? How would that even work? It's not like English cricket where players are employed on central contracts.
    It is for some of the smaller/poorer countries.

    See Salah's dispute with the Egyptian FA.

    https://www.espn.co.uk/football/egypt/story/3477900/mohamed-salahs-egypt-image-rights-dispute-resolved-after-major-insult
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    I've always thought that combining the Scottish and English leagues would do wonders for both leagues, as well as national cohesion.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    tlg86 said:

    Didn't the Olympics lose their legal battles against life time bans for drug cheats on basis of restraint of trade, but English rugby can openly discriminate, scratches head....how does that work?

    As @Leon says, you can't make a national association select someone.
    The issue in Olympics is that most countries run automatic qualification competitions where selectors have no discretion. So much harder to block people from competing.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    Hmmm, Disappointed that the replies to this aren't filled up with anti-super league posts:

    https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford/status/1383839304728780806
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    tlg86 said:

    This banned from international football...how is it any different from English Rugby saying they won't select anybody who doesn't play in Premiership or New Zealand rugby the same with those not based in NZ / Australia.

    I never understood how that is legal.

    I guess international sport isn't employment in the traditional sense. I think players get match fees, but it's not really important in the grand scheme of things.
    It is, they get certain percentages of the merchandise/sponsorship deals.
    Are you sure about that? How would that even work? It's not like English cricket where players are employed on central contracts.
    It is for some of the smaller/poorer countries.

    See Salah's dispute with the Egyptian FA.

    https://www.espn.co.uk/football/egypt/story/3477900/mohamed-salahs-egypt-image-rights-dispute-resolved-after-major-insult
    I get that it happens with minor countries (in an international sense, often who cannot afford to stand up to their star players). It's almost certainly not the case for the big European nations though.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2021
    This is the Dwain Chambers case.. wasn't British Athletics was British Olympic committee, but same difference, they had a selection policy against selecting those who had failed drugs tests. Was ruled it wasn't legal to do so.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/17853070
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,842

    I've always thought that combining the Scottish and English leagues would do wonders for both leagues, as well as national cohesion.

    I often thought that about the EU.
    With proper promotion and relegation though.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,309
    alex_ said:

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Just thinking about what @TheScreamingEagles said about restraint of trade regarding banning players from international football - you wouldn't actually need to ban them, you just make sure you employ a coach that won't pick them.

    Quite. Also, I'm not sure the law is a problem. eg England Rugby have - or had - a policy of not picking players who went abroad.

    I don't remember any lawsuits from the excluded players?


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/32626996

    So it is perfectly feasible that England the national squad will not choose players from the Superleague. Ditto Italy, Spain

    That is a huge deterrent

    This idea is not going to float
    Is it that much of a deterrent? It's not a deterrent to the clubs (in fact some would see it as a bonus). It isn't something that would hit players in the pocket either, so ultimately they would have to live with it. There are players who give up their entire footballing careers to go and warm the bench at large clubs for huge paychecks.
    Massive deterrent, I reckon

    If you play for Barca, Real or Juve you win cups and leagues all the time. You will also win this Superleague a lot. Club glory is a given

    Winning the European Championship or, especially, the World Cup is the absolute pinnacle of any great footballer's career. Look how the English worship that winning side in 1966. Still! See how much this annoys the Scots

    Win the World Cup and you have the unalloyed adoration of your nation for the rest of your life. You don't get that with a club, no matter how illustrious

    For a new Zidane or a Messi, the next Maradona or Beckham - world class players who can seriously dream of a World Cup - giving up that ultimate prize forever would be pretty painful


  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    I've always thought that combining the Scottish and English leagues would do wonders for both leagues, as well as national cohesion.

    I assume that's a joke.
  • tlg86 said:

    Hmmm, Disappointed that the replies to this aren't filled up with anti-super league posts:

    https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford/status/1383839304728780806

    I think that poll posted below showed younger supporters liked the idea of a super league whilst older supporters were opposed.

    I think the replies are a result of young uns using Twitter more than their elders.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ON topic, a question for PB software brainiacs.

    My laptop has just frozen during a Windows 10 update

    "50% completed, do not switch off"

    It's just stuck on that and has been stuck for hours. It won't even switch off if I press the off button hard and long

    Anything else I can do?!

    Buy a MacBook.
    I did, once. Hated it

    Any other helpful suggestions?!
    Dell XPS 13 is the best windows laptop if you're not a Mac person.
    I'd kinda like to save my present laptop, if at all possible

    It's a Microsoft Surface, it's newish, and it's by far the best laptop I've ever had (until this glitch)

    Is it not covered by your warranty still if it is newish? Failing that disconnect the battery.
    Try pushing the button long and hard again. Don't give up on the button.

    The same thing happened to me recently. Frozen blue screen on Win 10. Eventually it restarted and was back to normal.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    This banned from international football...how is it any different from English Rugby saying they won't select anybody who doesn't play in Premiership or New Zealand rugby the same with those not based in NZ / Australia.

    I never understood how that is legal.

    Because they never made it a legal rule, just a "selection policy"? A coach is entitled to select who he/she likes, for whatever reason


    The national coach will be given a policy not to select Superleague players. That ends the international career of anyone in Barca, Real, Man U, Chelsea. A pretty high price to pay, especially when these players are already earning squillions and don't really need more, so money is less of an inducement (unlike the owners)

    I can see players as well as fans rebelling
    Especially the younger ones.
    Forget internationals. Consider a promising teenager at one of these clubs.
    Most never break the first team properly. But they do go on to have long, lucrative careers lower down the pyramid.
    Except, a single game in this league and they won't.
    I'd be off if I were them. Double quick if this comes to pass.
    I don't think lifetime bans are realistic. I certainly don't think that would stand up legally. But i can well see non-selection at International level for current players of relevant clubs. But i don't think that would matter.

    Basically if the thing flops it will be because those pushing it have totally overestimated the demand for the product.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    tlg86 said:

    Hmmm, Disappointed that the replies to this aren't filled up with anti-super league posts:

    https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford/status/1383839304728780806

    I think that poll posted below showed younger supporters liked the idea of a super league whilst older supporters were opposed.

    I think the replies are a result of young uns using Twitter more than their elders.
    I think that's probably right. Thing is, youngsters are skint, so I'm not sure it's the best business model to piss off the oldies.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    tlg86 said:

    I've always thought that combining the Scottish and English leagues would do wonders for both leagues, as well as national cohesion.

    I assume that's a joke.
    It is not.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,309

    tlg86 said:

    Didn't the Olympics lose their legal battles against life time bans for drug cheats on basis of restraint of trade, but English rugby can openly discriminate, scratches head....how does that work?

    As @Leon says, you can't make a national association select someone.
    Dwain Chambers, 100m sprinter.....he took British Athletics to court when they said they don't ever select somebody who has failed a drug test and they were forced to change their policy.
    All the England coach has to do is say "My team is better if the players know each other blah blah" - then he can exclude Superleague players on the ground they undermine his team and make it worse

    I don't see how you can litigate against that
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    tlg86 said:

    I've always thought that combining the Scottish and English leagues would do wonders for both leagues, as well as national cohesion.

    I assume that's a joke.
    It is not.
    The last thing our railways need is Rangers and Celtic fans travelling south every other week.
  • alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    tlg86 said:

    This banned from international football...how is it any different from English Rugby saying they won't select anybody who doesn't play in Premiership or New Zealand rugby the same with those not based in NZ / Australia.

    I never understood how that is legal.

    I guess international sport isn't employment in the traditional sense. I think players get match fees, but it's not really important in the grand scheme of things.
    It is, they get certain percentages of the merchandise/sponsorship deals.
    Are you sure about that? How would that even work? It's not like English cricket where players are employed on central contracts.
    It is for some of the smaller/poorer countries.

    See Salah's dispute with the Egyptian FA.

    https://www.espn.co.uk/football/egypt/story/3477900/mohamed-salahs-egypt-image-rights-dispute-resolved-after-major-insult
    I get that it happens with minor countries (in an international sense, often who cannot afford to stand up to their star players). It's almost certainly not the case for the big European nations though.
    Nope, from this weekend.

    England men's football team set for row with the FA over who will stump up the tax on their image rights - with the ENTIRE Three Lions squad under investigation by HMRC

    The HMRC probe relates to image rights payments made to England by the FA

    Players are digging their heels in and feel the governing body should pay the tax

    Regular England players can earn £150,000 a year from commercial agreements

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9482705/England-players-tax-row-FA-image-rights-payments.html
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,309
    Barnesian said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ON topic, a question for PB software brainiacs.

    My laptop has just frozen during a Windows 10 update

    "50% completed, do not switch off"

    It's just stuck on that and has been stuck for hours. It won't even switch off if I press the off button hard and long

    Anything else I can do?!

    Buy a MacBook.
    I did, once. Hated it

    Any other helpful suggestions?!
    Dell XPS 13 is the best windows laptop if you're not a Mac person.
    I'd kinda like to save my present laptop, if at all possible

    It's a Microsoft Surface, it's newish, and it's by far the best laptop I've ever had (until this glitch)

    Is it not covered by your warranty still if it is newish? Failing that disconnect the battery.
    Try pushing the button long and hard again. Don't give up on the button.

    The same thing happened to me recently. Frozen blue screen on Win 10. Eventually it restarted and was back to normal.
    It is working now ta. Healed itself. Just gave it time
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I've always thought that combining the Scottish and English leagues would do wonders for both leagues, as well as national cohesion.

    I assume that's a joke.
    It is not.
    The last thing our railways need is Rangers and Celtic fans travelling south every other week.
    Why not? We deal with Leeds fans. :D
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,667
    Somebody here a little while ago suggested that the politicians should bcome involved on this issue.

    Well, one of them at least has.

    Ed Davey on European Super League: This is greed personified

    Ed Davey MP, Leader of the Liberal Democrats, has criticised the reported new European Super League proposals:

    “This is greed personified, ripping the heart out of the English game, leaving clubs up and down the country to suffer after an awful year.

    “The Premier League is one of this country’s greatest exports. It helps fund grassroots football across the nation. The consequences of these plans reach far and wide. The Government must step in to prevent a small number of greedy, rich owners destroying the game we all love.”
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited April 2021
    Leon said:

    alex_ said:

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Just thinking about what @TheScreamingEagles said about restraint of trade regarding banning players from international football - you wouldn't actually need to ban them, you just make sure you employ a coach that won't pick them.

    Quite. Also, I'm not sure the law is a problem. eg England Rugby have - or had - a policy of not picking players who went abroad.

    I don't remember any lawsuits from the excluded players?


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/32626996

    So it is perfectly feasible that England the national squad will not choose players from the Superleague. Ditto Italy, Spain

    That is a huge deterrent

    This idea is not going to float
    Is it that much of a deterrent? It's not a deterrent to the clubs (in fact some would see it as a bonus). It isn't something that would hit players in the pocket either, so ultimately they would have to live with it. There are players who give up their entire footballing careers to go and warm the bench at large clubs for huge paychecks.
    Massive deterrent, I reckon

    If you play for Barca, Real or Juve you win cups and leagues all the time. You will also win this Superleague a lot. Club glory is a given

    Winning the European Championship or, especially, the World Cup is the absolute pinnacle of any great footballer's career. Look how the English worship that winning side in 1966. Still! See how much this annoys the Scots

    Win the World Cup and you have the unalloyed adoration of your nation for the rest of your life. You don't get that with a club, no matter how illustrious

    For a new Zidane or a Messi, the next Maradona or Beckham - world class players who can seriously dream of a World Cup - giving up that ultimate prize forever would be pretty painful


    I think you're a naive romantic. Players will follow the money. As i mentioned above, i could give you hundreds of players who have effectively given up their careers for the money. True some have exaggerated ideas of what they can achieve after their "big money transfer". The trophies are nice, but first and foremost it is the money that pays.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,038
    I saw my first anti-lockdown protest today. I was at Petersfield Heath Pond with my family- beautiful day - and I couldn't work out why there were 30-40 people grouped together standing around. I thought, hmm.. rambler's meet? Big birthday party? Sports?

    Anyway, there were still there after 90 minutes (seemingly not doing much) and my curiosity got the better of me. So, I ambled by and saw they were all congregated around a sign saying "Stand In The Park - Petersfield".

    I had to look it up on my phone. Turns out this is a worldwide anti-lockdown movement, started in Australia, that encourages people to congregate in their local park every Sunday morning between 10am and 11am on the basis that people power is the only thing that will make governments stop their bullsh*t. It's spread here in recent weeks.

    This was easily the most middle-class and gentile protest I'd ever seen. They could have been having cheese and wine or a picnic, for all I knew. They were doing nothing other than chatting or laughing. But, after about a few hours the rozzers turned up (whereupon half of them swiftly strolled away) and had a long word with them. Then, they left after 10 minutes - no arrests - and the rest of them simply carried on.

    Whilst I had sympathy with their aims, I can't see that many other parents and families did from my eavesdropping in the kids playground. "They'll put us all in lockdown again" or "I hope they stay over there and give it to each other, but no-one else" was a typical reaction.

    Conclusion: most people don't like the restrictions much, but they hate flagrant rulebreakers even more.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,769
    dixiedean said:

    I've always thought that combining the Scottish and English leagues would do wonders for both leagues, as well as national cohesion.

    I often thought that about the EU.
    With proper promotion and relegation though.
    I take it you mean the EU leagues, not the EU itself?

    Although the latter idea is interesting. ‘Hungary, you lose four points because Orban’s had five judges locked up. Turkey is promoted to full membership in your place.’
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    alex_ said:

    Leon said:

    alex_ said:

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Just thinking about what @TheScreamingEagles said about restraint of trade regarding banning players from international football - you wouldn't actually need to ban them, you just make sure you employ a coach that won't pick them.

    Quite. Also, I'm not sure the law is a problem. eg England Rugby have - or had - a policy of not picking players who went abroad.

    I don't remember any lawsuits from the excluded players?


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/32626996

    So it is perfectly feasible that England the national squad will not choose players from the Superleague. Ditto Italy, Spain

    That is a huge deterrent

    This idea is not going to float
    Is it that much of a deterrent? It's not a deterrent to the clubs (in fact some would see it as a bonus). It isn't something that would hit players in the pocket either, so ultimately they would have to live with it. There are players who give up their entire footballing careers to go and warm the bench at large clubs for huge paychecks.
    Massive deterrent, I reckon

    If you play for Barca, Real or Juve you win cups and leagues all the time. You will also win this Superleague a lot. Club glory is a given

    Winning the European Championship or, especially, the World Cup is the absolute pinnacle of any great footballer's career. Look how the English worship that winning side in 1966. Still! See how much this annoys the Scots

    Win the World Cup and you have the unalloyed adoration of your nation for the rest of your life. You don't get that with a club, no matter how illustrious

    For a new Zidane or a Messi, the next Maradona or Beckham - world class players who can seriously dream of a World Cup - giving up that ultimate prize forever would be pretty painful


    I think you're a naive romantic. Players will follow the money. As i mentioned above, i could give you hundreds of players who have effectively given up their careers for the money. The trophies are nice, but first and foremost it is the money that pays.
    All those players who wwnt to China and now being asked to take a pay cut and all leaving....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,981
    edited April 2021

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I've always thought that combining the Scottish and English leagues would do wonders for both leagues, as well as national cohesion.

    I assume that's a joke.
    It is not.
    The last thing our railways need is Rangers and Celtic fans travelling south every other week.
    Why not? We deal with Leeds fans. :D
    Fans of Dirty Leeds have never done this to Manchester city centre.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/never-before-seen-images-one-14667382
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I have absolutely no idea what any of you are talking about.

    That’s ironic, because the JP Morgan investment is a classic example of bankers being fuckwits. So very close to your day job!
    The fuckwittery, greed and corruption I can understand.

    It's this "football" you keep mentioning ..... I suppose I should think of it as some sort of CDO. Started as a good idea. Spiralled out of control because of the greed of everyone involved. About to destroy the reputation of all involved and splatter shite all over the ordinary people involved.

    Would that more or less sum it up?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited April 2021
    dixiedean said:

    I've always thought that combining the Scottish and English leagues would do wonders for both leagues, as well as national cohesion.

    I often thought that about the EU.
    With proper promotion and relegation though.
    It'd just be the same teams as UEFA, wouldn't it?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    tlg86 said:

    This banned from international football...how is it any different from English Rugby saying they won't select anybody who doesn't play in Premiership or New Zealand rugby the same with those not based in NZ / Australia.

    I never understood how that is legal.

    I guess international sport isn't employment in the traditional sense. I think players get match fees, but it's not really important in the grand scheme of things.
    It is, they get certain percentages of the merchandise/sponsorship deals.
    Are you sure about that? How would that even work? It's not like English cricket where players are employed on central contracts.
    It is for some of the smaller/poorer countries.

    See Salah's dispute with the Egyptian FA.

    https://www.espn.co.uk/football/egypt/story/3477900/mohamed-salahs-egypt-image-rights-dispute-resolved-after-major-insult
    I get that it happens with minor countries (in an international sense, often who cannot afford to stand up to their star players). It's almost certainly not the case for the big European nations though.
    Nope, from this weekend.

    England men's football team set for row with the FA over who will stump up the tax on their image rights - with the ENTIRE Three Lions squad under investigation by HMRC

    The HMRC probe relates to image rights payments made to England by the FA

    Players are digging their heels in and feel the governing body should pay the tax

    Regular England players can earn £150,000 a year from commercial agreements

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9482705/England-players-tax-row-FA-image-rights-payments.html
    Wow! £150,000 A YEAR!!! Most get paid that by their clubs in a week!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2021
    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    Didn't the Olympics lose their legal battles against life time bans for drug cheats on basis of restraint of trade, but English rugby can openly discriminate, scratches head....how does that work?

    As @Leon says, you can't make a national association select someone.
    Dwain Chambers, 100m sprinter.....he took British Athletics to court when they said they don't ever select somebody who has failed a drug test and they were forced to change their policy.
    All the England coach has to do is say "My team is better if the players know each other blah blah" - then he can exclude Superleague players on the ground they undermine his team and make it worse

    I don't see how you can litigate against that
    My argument was England rugby don't do that, they have an explicit overt policy of no selection. BOC had a similar one and it was ruled illegal.

    In rugby situation it is easy, basically no players who would be selected for England play in France. Now the footy, be a brave coach not to select all the best English players from the best 6 teams, that is literally the current England starting 11.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    I've always thought that combining the Scottish and English leagues would do wonders for both leagues, as well as national cohesion.

    I assume that's a joke.
    It is not.
    The last thing our railways need is Rangers and Celtic fans travelling south every other week.
    Why not? We deal with Leeds fans. :D
    Fans of Dirty Leeds have never done this to Manchester city centre.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/never-before-seen-images-one-14667382
    Just looks like Manchester on a normal Saturday morning to me.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Leon said:

    It's just stuck on that and has been stuck for hours. It won't even switch off if I press the off button hard and long

    If it won't switch off on a 4-second press of the power button then you have a hardware fault serious enough to have nuked the power management system. Phone the manufacturer if it's under warranty, or find a repair place if it's not.
    Although in this case hard and long might only be 3 inches seconds
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