Latest Savanta/ComRes lockdown tracker finds declining levels of compliance particularly amongst the
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This isn’t empty ‘rhetoric’. This is going to kill people with a terrible plague, just as their venal incompetence has already killed people. Get a grip, manNigel_Foremain said:
Let me let you into a secret, that may have eluded you. Our government, and previous governments that have purported to represent us, have done some very very dumb things, but occasionally it does some good ones. So do other governments and so does the EU. The EU Commission is currently in panic mode. Eventually it will calm down. Much of this is rhetoric to cover up bad decisions, which is exactly what our government does. Quelle surprise!Leon said:
The sane, calm, coolly logical position is hatred of the EU and its member governments, right now. With their cretinous, lunatic smearing of the AZ vaccine they have already killed many people, their new proposals will kill many more. Even as they sit on unused doses of the same vaccine. Unused because of their own stupidity.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
I don’t know about you but I hate stupid, self-serving institutions that willfully kill lots of people3 -
Wait..they're cancelling the shutdown, so its all open?FrancisUrquhart said:
After the initial reaction last March, Germany have made idiotic decision after idiotic decision.Floater said:
WTFFFFFF0 -
About that German competency ......williamglenn said:1 -
Doesn't any of this have to be voted on? By the Council or the Parliament?CarlottaVance said:
Don't Ireland or anyone else objecting have any form of veto? It doesn't look like they do.0 -
No.kamski said:
Has anyone actually stolen any vaccines from Covax?Floater said:
They need to be publicly shamed by the world communityRobD said:
So not only stealing from the UK, but also stealing from the less well-off in a pathetic attempt to hide their own failures. Sick.CarlottaVance said:
However, MEPs seem to be going increasingly bananas.0 -
Not sure that is what it is saying. AIUI, previously they were ordering shops shut except Greengrocers etc. Now they have abandoned the lockdown and are instead just asking people to stay at home voluntarily. If things are as bad as they claim in Germany this seems a seriously retrograde step.Slackbladder said:
A bit of a omnishambles given grocers would have ordered all their fresh stuff, and now it's going to be wasted.Floater said:0 -
I think it's probably advantageous for people in general to be deciding for themselves to relax a bit ahead of the roadmap. It will provide more decisive signals if things are going wrong or staying OK.turbotubbs said:
I'll just throw into the mix my belief that many people already mixing quite a lot, certainly among family. The shops are not open, nor are the pubs etc, but I don't think we are going to be going from nothing to a lot in a big bang. More and more people, particularly the lucky sods who have had at least one jab (like me) are feeling much safer about meeting others who have also been jabbed. The government has resisted calls to let those people free ahead of the unvaccinated (I believe in some US states they have done this). But the change from where we are today to the April 12th will not be as big as expected.Malmesbury said:
No, I'm not.Philip_Thompson said:
I believe many more people in this country have been vaccinated than were in Israel when they lifted their lockdown, since Israel were double-dosing their vulnerable.Malmesbury said:
A compete relaxation now will fill ICU - there are enough 30-50 year olds who will get sick enough.noneoftheabove said:
The deal between the public and govt was suspension of people's rights to stop the NHS being overloaded with covid patients. The last month has been the first persistent breach of that deal by the government. Bring in the outdoor rule of six now - its de facto in place for anything that doesnt require businesses to be involved already.Malmesbury said:This was foreseen - there is the gap between getting the most at risk groups vaccinated and getting to herd immunity levels.
We are at 40%+ of all people having one vaccination.
Israel is at 60%+ - which is at the lower bounds of herd immunity effect.
In this gap, people are already saying "Isn't it over yet?"
No, it isn't. Hence the roadmap.
Ive slipped from entirely in January to mostly now, and will slip to sometimes in the spring if the numbers keep dropping and the govt dont bring forward their plans.
This is R calculated from *hospital admissions* -
There isn't a vast amount of leeway.
Their ICUs weren't filled.
You're assuming that R hasn't been affected by vaccinating half of the population, that's a ridiculously false assumption.
Vaccinating 40% of the population has effected R. The question you are asking is whether vaccinating 40% of the population with a vaccine that is say 80% efficacious will bring R down enough to stop a take off.
A rough estimate is that you multiply the 2 - so you get a vaccine effect of 0.32
Which suggests that if the rest of your measures bring the R down to 1.4 or so, then the vaccination effect will take you down to a combined R of 1.
The hospitalisation data above is real world, remember.3 -
Her remarkable and often admirable career is ending in abject failure. It is sad to seewilliamglenn said:1 -
Yep...just -rereading it. Which makes even less sense from the DE government.Richard_Tyndall said:
Not sure that is what it is saying. AIUI, previously they were ordering shops shut except Greengrocers etc. Now they have abandoned the lockdown and are instead just asking people to stay at home voluntarily. If things are as bad as they claim in Germany this seems a seriously retrograde step.Slackbladder said:
A bit of a omnishambles given grocers would have ordered all their fresh stuff, and now it's going to be wasted.Floater said:1 -
Someone obsessively interested in minutiae of something boring to most people.Endillion said:
Crikey, am I also a wonk? I've always wanted to be a wonk.kle4 said:
Yes, I get that many of us spout off angry and occasionally ill informed rhetoric, but we're political wonks on a website, that's ok. Our government, uncharacteristically but happily, has been more even tempered.RobD said:
Who needs to be combated more. The idiots running Europe, or some commentators on PB? A tough one.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
Edit: what is a wonk?
On being a Remainer, it would still be perfectly possible to conclude, on balance, the positives outweigh the negatives, but acknowledgement of negatives in this instance is necessary so it can do better. Verhofstadt made that point, even if his solution was, predictably, more Europe.1 -
Croda, for example?
They will also look at raw materials coming in
https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1374677117762473990?s=200 -
Probably - especially since after the war, GCHQ & Co. were busy selling and recommending cipher machines using design principles from brilliant machines designed by Germans. Hence obviously world class....MattW said:
Hasn't this been the case since Ultra?CarlottaVance said:
It would appear that the UK government is better informed about vaccine production in Italy than the Italian press (& government?)CarlottaVance said:
Some of them were in use up to the 1970s.....1 -
Yes actually.MattW said:
No.kamski said:
Has anyone actually stolen any vaccines from Covax?Floater said:
They need to be publicly shamed by the world communityRobD said:
So not only stealing from the UK, but also stealing from the less well-off in a pathetic attempt to hide their own failures. Sick.CarlottaVance said:
However, MEPs seem to be going increasingly bananas.
Doses due to go to Covax have been impounded.
Every day they're impounded rather than injected is lives lost.0 -
Yes, I think that's a fair argument. It seems bonkers that we are opening up beer gardens the week AFTER Easter, thus losing all that benefit to the sector. There seems to be this puritanical view among some that you can't open up the pubs on bank holiday weekends, as people will somehow "go mad". Yet as they are outdoor only, it seems – as you say – that this is low risk in covid terms.Andy_Cooke said:I do, though, feel that the outside activity relaxation could well be brought forwards. The indications are very strong that outside activity is far far lower risk (not zero risk, but considerably lower).
It could also help with holding on for the rest of the roadmap.
The proportion of ICU patients outside of Groups 1-4 and 5-9 is still very significant.
Around 15-20% of ICU patients admitted throughout have been outside the Groups 1-9, and about 50-65% were in Groups 5-9 (only part of whom have been one-dose vaccinated) (varying over time)
Suppose we relax fully and the reduction in hospitalisation levels is 85% for the vaccinated.
Out of every 100 people admitted to ICU prior to vaccination, we'd expect:
NOW (half of Groups 5-9 vaccinated)
Unvaccinated: 20
Groups 5-9: 28.75
Groups 1-4: 4.75
Total: 54
Call it 50%. That buys us one doubling.
Wait until about 4 weeks from now and assume that Groups 5-9 will be done and have developed immunity and most of Groups 1-4 will have been double-dosed and further improved on protection. Some of the outside-Groups-1-9 will have been done as well):
Unvaccinated: 18
Groups 5-9: 7.5
Groups 1-4: ~2
Total: 28
That buys us nearly two doublings.
The R number can spring up FAST and is not comparable with last June. Not only are we less outdoorsy in April than in June, we have a variant that's far more transmissible.
There are plenty of people that can fill the ICUs. We ramped up fast in December even with Tier 3 and Tier 4 in plenty of places; reducing to below that would see a big potential springing up.
Maybe we'd be lucky. Or maybe we'd need to lock down yet again. How about we relax outdoors stuff a bit early and otherwise stick to the roadmap instead?
I wonder why they chose 12 April not 2 April?0 -
Verhofstadt had a point and his solution could work. It was a similar point to my thread header a while back.kle4 said:
Someone obsessively interested in minutiae of something boring to most people.Endillion said:
Crikey, am I also a wonk? I've always wanted to be a wonk.kle4 said:
Yes, I get that many of us spout off angry and occasionally ill informed rhetoric, but we're political wonks on a website, that's ok. Our government, uncharacteristically but happily, has been more even tempered.RobD said:
Who needs to be combated more. The idiots running Europe, or some commentators on PB? A tough one.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
Edit: what is a wonk?
On being a Remainer, it would still be perfectly possible to conclude, on balance, the positives outweigh the negatives, but acknowledgement of negatives in this instance is necessary so it can do better. Verhofstadt made that point, even if his solution was, predictably, more Europe.
The problem with the EU is it needs to sort itself out and decide what it wants to do. If it wants these decisions made at an EU level then it needs more Europe, and more democracy to hold to account the decision makers.
If it wants these decisions made at a national level then it needs less Europe.
Verhofstadt's model works, Johnson's model works. You need to pick a path and take it. Standing in the middle trying to triangulate 27 nations with nobody taking responsibility doesn't work.1 -
I remember quite a few years ago hiring an Indian firm to build a website for a new business I setup...it was the most frustrating experience of my life. I would point out issues and obvious mistakes, be told yes yes we have it covered, and the next revision, not only would they not be fixed, they had managed to introduce more. I think it took 3-4 months before I had to bin them off and hire some people in Estonia, who sorted it all in a few weeks.Slackbladder said:I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.
Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.
It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.
You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.1 -
"partially vaccinated persons were those who had received one dose or who had received the second dose of the BNT162b2 vaccine less than 7 days before the index date or the second dose of the mRNA-1273 vaccine less than 14 days before the index date"Philip_Thompson said:
Is that data making the mistake of including single doses where people received the vaccine within the last three weeks? Ie when its not effective yet.Andy_Cooke said:
We've given ONE dose, not two.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed.another_richard said:
Add in those who have immunity through infection and it will be 60%+.Malmesbury said:This was foreseen - there is the gap between getting the most at risk groups vaccinated and getting to herd immunity levels.
We are at 40%+ of all people having one vaccination.
Israel is at 60%+ - which is at the lower bounds of herd immunity effect.
In this gap, people are already saying "Isn't it over yet?"
No, it isn't. Hence the roadmap.
Not to mention that the people who have been vaccinated are those most at risk.
Israel lifted lockdown on 7/2. They weren't at 60% vaccinated by 7/2 by a long shot. Especially since they were double-dosing the vulnerable.
We've vaccinated as many people as Israel had by then.
The effect of one dose brings down hospitalisations a long way (but not as far as two doses) and retards transmission and infection to an extent - but nowhere near as much as two doses.
The double-dosing may be the key to retarding R.
The data out now from PHE and the Scottish equivalent is that a single dose reduces the risk of hospitalisation and death by 85%. The idea the bulk of the protection comes from the second dose is absolutely for the birds.
The data we have from SIREN shows that symptomatic infection drops c. 60% (but takes up to five weeks to get to this point), hospitalisation a total of 80%, and mortality a total of 85% from the first dose. We don't have records on asymptomatic infection reduction for this.
A reduction in transmissibility of 30% was recorded as well, but that should be viewed as a minimum and could be as high as 60%. A reduction in R of about a half would probably be a decent stab.
Accordingly, we could say that 30% of people had first doses 3 weeks or more ago, with a 50% reduction in R from these would give a reduction of 15% overall to R0 thanks to vaccination from first doses to date.
Add in 25-30% of the remainder (so 0.75*0.7 to 0.7*0.7 for completely unprotected) and we don't know the transmissibility from the infected-and-recovered yet. It'll be between that for first dose only and full vaccination.
The indications are that the second dose absolutely clobbers even asymptomatic infection, and certainly reduces R a long way, especially given the data from Israel.0 -
Having the scales lifted from your eyes by pliers will do that.Leon said:
I do feel a certain sympathy for ardent Remainers right now. The cognitive dissonance must be like a 200 decibel klaxon constantly shrieking, a metre away. Agonizing.Philip_Thompson said:
When the EU are impounding vaccines bought and paid for by Covax to aid the third world during the pandemic and you are rushing out to condemn those criticising the EU then you have rather misplaced your moral compass.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
Like a true believer seeing the feet of clay. Like cultists being deprogrammed. The process - I’m serious here - is known to cause great mental pain0 -
I think you are right although Leon is funny. The coolest head atm appears to be Boris. Funny old world.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.0 -
Seems nobody has told the BBC they are pushing fake news about the stockpile in Italy.....2
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https://twitter.com/macaesbruno/status/1374688979472281607?s=21Philip_Thompson said:
Yes actually.MattW said:
No.kamski said:
Has anyone actually stolen any vaccines from Covax?Floater said:
They need to be publicly shamed by the world communityRobD said:
So not only stealing from the UK, but also stealing from the less well-off in a pathetic attempt to hide their own failures. Sick.CarlottaVance said:
However, MEPs seem to be going increasingly bananas.
Doses due to go to Covax have been impounded.
Every day they're impounded rather than injected is lives lost.1 -
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I was speculating, perhaps unfairly, that you might have sought to remedy that.Dura_Ace said:
I went through the Suez on Lusty in the late 90s. The Admiralty made us go through in the dark so nobody would know we were there - OF7 level strategic thinking. I did not take the helm! ...Nigelb said:
There are varying accounts.Sandpit said:
It sounds like they had a power failure, rather than were trying to turn around. Vessels in canals and ports also have a local “Pilot” on board, who’s in charge of the vessel through their stretch of water.Time_to_Leave said:
What I don’t understand is how Captain Frank Spencer did it? I’ve never skippered a supertanker myself but it feels like at a certain point in the turn you’d think “hmmm, maybe not, I’ll never clear that”.Sandpit said:Looking at images of that stuck ship, and diagrams of the canal, it’s very, *very* stuck indeed.
It’s also an awful lot bigger than you think it is - it’s 400m long and 57m wide, weighs 220,000 tonnes, one of the largest vessels afloat.
They’re going to have to dredge plenty of canal out of the way, and probably take off hundreds of containers.
My prediction - 10 days to clear it, about the same time as the shipping diversion around Africa. Time to fill up your car with petrol.
I stand by my @Dura_Ace theory.
After all, it's only 10% of world trade that's at stake.
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I think I "have a grip", thanks . Whether the current EU Commission, or the anti-EU obsessives such as yourself do I would say is open to debate.Leon said:
This isn’t empty ‘rhetoric’. This is going to kill people with a terrible plague, just as their venal incompetence has already killed people. Get a grip, manNigel_Foremain said:
Let me let you into a secret, that may have eluded you. Our government, and previous governments that have purported to represent us, have done some very very dumb things, but occasionally it does some good ones. So do other governments and so does the EU. The EU Commission is currently in panic mode. Eventually it will calm down. Much of this is rhetoric to cover up bad decisions, which is exactly what our government does. Quelle surprise!Leon said:
The sane, calm, coolly logical position is hatred of the EU and its member governments, right now. With their cretinous, lunatic smearing of the AZ vaccine they have already killed many people, their new proposals will kill many more. Even as they sit on unused doses of the same vaccine. Unused because of their own stupidity.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
I don’t know about you but I hate stupid, self-serving institutions that willfully kill lots of people
Try hating less, it will make you happier, and maybe stop reading the Daily Express and believing that every hot headed continental MEP (or French president) speaks on behalf of the whole of the 27 nation EU.0 -
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That’s what it sounds like. Non-essential retail had been ordered closed over the Easter period, but now they’ve decided to keep it open after all.Slackbladder said:
Wait..they're cancelling the shutdown, so its all open?FrancisUrquhart said:
After the initial reaction last March, Germany have made idiotic decision after idiotic decision.Floater said:
WTFFFFFF
Expect them to change their minds again next week, as the cases keep rising.
Sounds remarkably like U.K. and Christmas.0 -
Perhaps QMV.Philip_Thompson said:
Doesn't any of this have to be voted on? By the Council or the Parliament?CarlottaVance said:
Don't Ireland or anyone else objecting have any form of veto? It doesn't look like they do.
Though whether this mechanism requires initiation of the process by the country is unclear.
Also it's Comical Dave, so some of it could be bollocks.
Or perhaps even another flag flying leak.0 -
He's missed out the best bit - COVAX is enthusiastically supported by both the EU and the Italian government.Leon said:
https://twitter.com/macaesbruno/status/1374688979472281607?s=21Philip_Thompson said:
Yes actually.MattW said:
No.kamski said:
Has anyone actually stolen any vaccines from Covax?Floater said:
They need to be publicly shamed by the world communityRobD said:
So not only stealing from the UK, but also stealing from the less well-off in a pathetic attempt to hide their own failures. Sick.CarlottaVance said:
However, MEPs seem to be going increasingly bananas.
Doses due to go to Covax have been impounded.
Every day they're impounded rather than injected is lives lost.0 -
One thing that doesn't seem to be getting much attention...AZN said they could do 4 million a week made in the UK, they clearly aren't getting anywhere near that, as if they were we would be doing 600k a day every day.2
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It's not double standards. Invictus is a great achievement. It helps ex-soldiers. Great. What about everyone else? My real life experience tells me that there is fuck all help for those with those with serious mental health issues, let alone their families, that once they have got past a crisis they get forgotten and that employers, for all the talk and branding and awareness days and clapping themselves on the back, are not good at hiring or keeping those with mental health issues in the past, even if they have learnt to manage and control it.noneoftheabove said:
Amazing double standards around Harry. He has set up the Invictus games which changed many peoples lives from overwhelming struggle to one of hope and achievement. That already puts him in the top 0.1% or better of people influencing and improving others lives.Cyclefree said:
What does this company actually do? I have an interest in mental health provision because I have personal experience of what it does to people and their families.Charles said:
Not at all. It’s very important.Cyclefree said:
It's a non-job.Gallowgate said:Genuine question: what right does Prince Harry have to work in the USA? Does he have a right to work by virtue of being married to an American? Does he need a visa?
I've always been curious.
He’s not just making oodles of money giving speeches to investment bankers and documentaries for Netflix.
He’s working for a *mental health* company
He’s not such a bad guy giving up his valuable time like that...
Lots of people talk about it. It has become really quite fashionable to do so. Actual practical help is rather thin on the ground, especially afterwards. Try getting a job from companies after explaining that your patchy CV is because of mental health illness and you will find that their interest in better mental health vanishes as fast as snow in summer.
If he is going to do something practical to help with that, good on him. If it's just another talking shop or another forum for him to talk about himself, not so good.
Apps can help. But giving someone who doesn't have the standard 10 A*, internship at Goldman's, stellar CV etc a chance would do a hell of a lot more.
That happened to my son. It was a physiotherapy practice which did it to him as well. Bastards.Gallowgate said:On the subject of mental health, I once got "let go" from a company due to my mental health.
I had been working there for a few months, and I suddenly had a very bad mental health episode. Prior to then I had heaps of praise raining down upon me about being the benchmark for new starters, etc, but 1 week after I told my manager I was having a few issues I was let go.
I'm still bitter about it to this day.
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Don’t start me on Indian software developers!FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember quite a few years ago hiring an Indian firm to build a website for a new business I setup...it was the most frustrating experience of my life. I would point out issues and obvious mistakes, be told yes yes we have it covered, and the next revision, not only would they not be fixed, they had managed to introduce more. I think it took 3-4 months before I had to bin them off and hire some people in Estonia, who sorted it all in a few weeks.Slackbladder said:I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.
Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.
It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.
You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.0 -
At least when Malta overtakes the UK the EU can claim they are doing better than the UK, so may calm down.CarlottaVance said:Netherlands one week's data:
https://www.politico.eu/coronavirus-in-europe/
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Quite standard - the productivity multiplier is as real as the wage multiplier.FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember quite a few years ago hiring an Indian firm to build a website for a new business I setup...it was the most frustrating experience of my life. I would point out issues and obvious mistakes, be told yes yes we have it covered, and the next revision, not only would they not be fixed, they had managed to introduce more. I think it took 3-4 months before I had to bin them off and hire some people in Estonia, who sorted it all in a few weeks.Slackbladder said:I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.
Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.
It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.
You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.
When you put them together - the cost vs work actually done is rather interesting.
One company I work for discovered that the cheapest locations for software development were, in order
1) London and Eastern Europe tied in first place
2) US
3) Canada
4) India1 -
The thing is Germany did this before with their failed lockdown light.... what are they thinking.Sandpit said:
That’s what it sounds like. Non-essential retail had been ordered closed over the Easter period, but now they’ve decided to keep it open after all.Slackbladder said:
Wait..they're cancelling the shutdown, so its all open?FrancisUrquhart said:
After the initial reaction last March, Germany have made idiotic decision after idiotic decision.Floater said:
WTFFFFFF
Expect them to change their minds again next week, as the cases keep rising.
Sounds remarkably like U.K. and Christmas.0 -
Calling all Shatner fans - T J Hooker is on the Sony Channel right now!0
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London and Bulgaria / Sofia from memory.Malmesbury said:
Quite standard - the productivity multiplier is as real as the wage multiplier.FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember quite a few years ago hiring an Indian firm to build a website for a new business I setup...it was the most frustrating experience of my life. I would point out issues and obvious mistakes, be told yes yes we have it covered, and the next revision, not only would they not be fixed, they had managed to introduce more. I think it took 3-4 months before I had to bin them off and hire some people in Estonia, who sorted it all in a few weeks.Slackbladder said:I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.
Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.
It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.
You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.
When you put them together - the cost vs work actually done is rather interesting.
One company I work for discovered that the cheapest locations for software development were, in order
1) London and Eastern Europe tied in first place
2) US
3) Canada
4) India
Eastern Europe can be very expensive now as productivity isn't as great as it might be.
I would argue that nearshoring to other UK cities will easily match London and might work out cheaper.0 -
This, by the way, is not remotely a criticism of the extended-gap/first dose strategy.Andy_Cooke said:
"partially vaccinated persons were those who had received one dose or who had received the second dose of the BNT162b2 vaccine less than 7 days before the index date or the second dose of the mRNA-1273 vaccine less than 14 days before the index date"Philip_Thompson said:
Is that data making the mistake of including single doses where people received the vaccine within the last three weeks? Ie when its not effective yet.Andy_Cooke said:
We've given ONE dose, not two.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed.another_richard said:
Add in those who have immunity through infection and it will be 60%+.Malmesbury said:This was foreseen - there is the gap between getting the most at risk groups vaccinated and getting to herd immunity levels.
We are at 40%+ of all people having one vaccination.
Israel is at 60%+ - which is at the lower bounds of herd immunity effect.
In this gap, people are already saying "Isn't it over yet?"
No, it isn't. Hence the roadmap.
Not to mention that the people who have been vaccinated are those most at risk.
Israel lifted lockdown on 7/2. They weren't at 60% vaccinated by 7/2 by a long shot. Especially since they were double-dosing the vulnerable.
We've vaccinated as many people as Israel had by then.
The effect of one dose brings down hospitalisations a long way (but not as far as two doses) and retards transmission and infection to an extent - but nowhere near as much as two doses.
The double-dosing may be the key to retarding R.
The data out now from PHE and the Scottish equivalent is that a single dose reduces the risk of hospitalisation and death by 85%. The idea the bulk of the protection comes from the second dose is absolutely for the birds.
The data we have from SIREN shows that symptomatic infection drops c. 60% (but takes up to five weeks to get to this point), hospitalisation a total of 80%, and mortality a total of 85% from the first dose. We don't have records on asymptomatic infection reduction for this.
A reduction in transmissibility of 30% was recorded as well, but that should be viewed as a minimum and could be as high as 60%. A reduction in R of about a half would probably be a decent stab.
Accordingly, we could say that 30% of people had first doses 3 weeks or more ago, with a 50% reduction in R from these would give a reduction of 15% overall to R0 thanks to vaccination from first doses to date.
Add in 25-30% of the remainder (so 0.75*0.7 to 0.7*0.7 for completely unprotected) and we don't know the transmissibility from the infected-and-recovered yet. It'll be between that for first dose only and full vaccination.
The indications are that the second dose absolutely clobbers even asymptomatic infection, and certainly reduces R a long way, especially given the data from Israel.
So it doesn't decrease R by a big chunk immediately and only prevents c.60% of symptomatic infections. That's not the main thrust of it.
Decreasing deaths by 85% and hospitalisations by 80% is evidence it's the right route.
Give it to 100 people who would otherwise have died. You save 85 lives and fail to save 15.
Do 2 doses and say it's 99% effective. You save 50 lives and fail to save 50.
50 deaths versus 15 deaths points to which strategy is less effective in saving lives in the short term.
Give it to 1000 people who would otherwise have been hospitalised.
You reduce that to 200, versus an absolute minimum of 500 via the other route.
It's a no-brainer.
2 -
Why so? We happen at the moment to have a third-rate charlatan and world-class liar as PM, and a cabinet of nonentities, who between them have wrecked trade completely unnecessarily and screwed up the Covid response so badly that tens of thousands have died unnecessarily. That doesn't mean that we need to come to the view that it would be a good idea to break up the United Kingdom.Leon said:
I do feel a certain sympathy for ardent Remainers right now. The cognitive dissonance must be like a 200 decibel klaxon constantly shrieking, a metre away. Agonizing.Philip_Thompson said:
When the EU are impounding vaccines bought and paid for by Covax to aid the third world during the pandemic and you are rushing out to condemn those criticising the EU then you have rather misplaced your moral compass.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
Like a true believer seeing the feet of clay. Like cultists being deprogrammed. The process - I’m serious here - is known to cause great mental pain2 -
That is known - but since Boris and Hancock haven't responded by running round with their underpants on their heads, a pencil in each nostril, shouting "wibble", it hasn't been noticed in the press.FrancisUrquhart said:One thing that doesn't seem to be getting much attention...AZN said they could do 4 million a week made in the UK, they clearly aren't getting anywhere near that, as if they were we would be doing 600k a day every day.
1 -
Wait, what?Cyclefree said:
It's not double standards. Invictus is a great achievement. It helps ex-soldiers. Great. What about everyone else? My real life experience tells me that there is fuck all help for those with those with serious mental health issues, let alone their families, that once they have got past a crisis they get forgotten and that employers, for all the talk and branding and awareness days and clapping themselves on the back, are not good at hiring or keeping those with mental health issues in the past, even if they have learnt to manage and control it.noneoftheabove said:
Amazing double standards around Harry. He has set up the Invictus games which changed many peoples lives from overwhelming struggle to one of hope and achievement. That already puts him in the top 0.1% or better of people influencing and improving others lives.Cyclefree said:
What does this company actually do? I have an interest in mental health provision because I have personal experience of what it does to people and their families.Charles said:
Not at all. It’s very important.Cyclefree said:
It's a non-job.Gallowgate said:Genuine question: what right does Prince Harry have to work in the USA? Does he have a right to work by virtue of being married to an American? Does he need a visa?
I've always been curious.
He’s not just making oodles of money giving speeches to investment bankers and documentaries for Netflix.
He’s working for a *mental health* company
He’s not such a bad guy giving up his valuable time like that...
Lots of people talk about it. It has become really quite fashionable to do so. Actual practical help is rather thin on the ground, especially afterwards. Try getting a job from companies after explaining that your patchy CV is because of mental health illness and you will find that their interest in better mental health vanishes as fast as snow in summer.
If he is going to do something practical to help with that, good on him. If it's just another talking shop or another forum for him to talk about himself, not so good.
Apps can help. But giving someone who doesn't have the standard 10 A*, internship at Goldman's, stellar CV etc a chance would do a hell of a lot more.
That happened to my son. It was a physiotherapy practice which did it to him as well. Bastards.Gallowgate said:On the subject of mental health, I once got "let go" from a company due to my mental health.
I had been working there for a few months, and I suddenly had a very bad mental health episode. Prior to then I had heaps of praise raining down upon me about being the benchmark for new starters, etc, but 1 week after I told my manager I was having a few issues I was let go.
I'm still bitter about it to this day.
So there's fuck all for most people so that means that anyone who tries to change this should be condemned? How do you square that circle?
This is clearly an issue he actually cares about since its one he worked on for years and founded a charity for. Good for him.1 -
Clifford Chance 'nearshore' some of their paralegal work to Newcastle.eek said:
London and Bulgaria / Sofia from memory.Malmesbury said:
Quite standard - the productivity multiplier is as real as the wage multiplier.FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember quite a few years ago hiring an Indian firm to build a website for a new business I setup...it was the most frustrating experience of my life. I would point out issues and obvious mistakes, be told yes yes we have it covered, and the next revision, not only would they not be fixed, they had managed to introduce more. I think it took 3-4 months before I had to bin them off and hire some people in Estonia, who sorted it all in a few weeks.Slackbladder said:I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.
Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.
It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.
You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.
When you put them together - the cost vs work actually done is rather interesting.
One company I work for discovered that the cheapest locations for software development were, in order
1) London and Eastern Europe tied in first place
2) US
3) Canada
4) India
Eastern Europe can be very expensive now as productivity isn't as great as it might be.
I would argue that nearshoring to other UK cities will easily match London and might work out cheaper.
0 -
PMQs is really becoming the 'Let's all laugh at Keir show' isn't it?
He really has no idea.3 -
Quite possibly - though if you pay lower wages than London, all the top talent goes there.eek said:
London and Bulgaria / Sofia from memory.Malmesbury said:
Quite standard - the productivity multiplier is as real as the wage multiplier.FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember quite a few years ago hiring an Indian firm to build a website for a new business I setup...it was the most frustrating experience of my life. I would point out issues and obvious mistakes, be told yes yes we have it covered, and the next revision, not only would they not be fixed, they had managed to introduce more. I think it took 3-4 months before I had to bin them off and hire some people in Estonia, who sorted it all in a few weeks.Slackbladder said:I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.
Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.
It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.
You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.
When you put them together - the cost vs work actually done is rather interesting.
One company I work for discovered that the cheapest locations for software development were, in order
1) London and Eastern Europe tied in first place
2) US
3) Canada
4) India
Eastern Europe can be very expensive now as productivity isn't as great as it might be.
I would argue that nearshoring to other UK cities will easily match London and might work out cheaper.
I've encountered a few attempts to setup up software development around the UK. The ones that have succeeded have to pay big wages to stop the drift to London. As in at least 2/3rd of the London rate...0 -
The guys I have had work for me for years based in Estonia, unlike Goldman Sachs grads, never complain about the 95hr work weeks....eek said:
London and Bulgaria / Sofia from memory.Malmesbury said:
Quite standard - the productivity multiplier is as real as the wage multiplier.FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember quite a few years ago hiring an Indian firm to build a website for a new business I setup...it was the most frustrating experience of my life. I would point out issues and obvious mistakes, be told yes yes we have it covered, and the next revision, not only would they not be fixed, they had managed to introduce more. I think it took 3-4 months before I had to bin them off and hire some people in Estonia, who sorted it all in a few weeks.Slackbladder said:I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.
Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.
It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.
You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.
When you put them together - the cost vs work actually done is rather interesting.
One company I work for discovered that the cheapest locations for software development were, in order
1) London and Eastern Europe tied in first place
2) US
3) Canada
4) India
Eastern Europe can be very expensive now as productivity isn't as great as it might be.
I would argue that nearshoring to other UK cities will easily match London and might work out cheaper.0 -
Why is it all Harry's responsibility? Why not mine or yours? He has already done far far more than his share, miles more than I ever will, yet comes in for criticism as he is making money in his new job and it only "might" help, it is indeed double standards.Cyclefree said:
It's not double standards. Invictus is a great achievement. It helps ex-soldiers. Great. What about everyone else? My real life experience tells me that there is fuck all help for those with those with serious mental health issues, let alone their families, that once they have got past a crisis they get forgotten and that employers, for all the talk and branding and awareness days and clapping themselves on the back, are not good at hiring or keeping those with mental health issues in the past, even if they have learnt to manage and control it.noneoftheabove said:
Amazing double standards around Harry. He has set up the Invictus games which changed many peoples lives from overwhelming struggle to one of hope and achievement. That already puts him in the top 0.1% or better of people influencing and improving others lives.Cyclefree said:
What does this company actually do? I have an interest in mental health provision because I have personal experience of what it does to people and their families.Charles said:
Not at all. It’s very important.Cyclefree said:
It's a non-job.Gallowgate said:Genuine question: what right does Prince Harry have to work in the USA? Does he have a right to work by virtue of being married to an American? Does he need a visa?
I've always been curious.
He’s not just making oodles of money giving speeches to investment bankers and documentaries for Netflix.
He’s working for a *mental health* company
He’s not such a bad guy giving up his valuable time like that...
Lots of people talk about it. It has become really quite fashionable to do so. Actual practical help is rather thin on the ground, especially afterwards. Try getting a job from companies after explaining that your patchy CV is because of mental health illness and you will find that their interest in better mental health vanishes as fast as snow in summer.
If he is going to do something practical to help with that, good on him. If it's just another talking shop or another forum for him to talk about himself, not so good.
Apps can help. But giving someone who doesn't have the standard 10 A*, internship at Goldman's, stellar CV etc a chance would do a hell of a lot more.
That happened to my son. It was a physiotherapy practice which did it to him as well. Bastards.Gallowgate said:On the subject of mental health, I once got "let go" from a company due to my mental health.
I had been working there for a few months, and I suddenly had a very bad mental health episode. Prior to then I had heaps of praise raining down upon me about being the benchmark for new starters, etc, but 1 week after I told my manager I was having a few issues I was let go.
I'm still bitter about it to this day.2 -
Aha. Another attempt to pretend that the likes of Manfred Weber - leader of the largest bloc vote in the European Parliament - has zero power or influence, and is roughly speaking the EU equivalent of Lembit Opik, circa 2007.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think I "have a grip", thanks . Whether the current EU Commission, or the anti-EU obsessives such as yourself do I would say is open to debate.Leon said:
This isn’t empty ‘rhetoric’. This is going to kill people with a terrible plague, just as their venal incompetence has already killed people. Get a grip, manNigel_Foremain said:
Let me let you into a secret, that may have eluded you. Our government, and previous governments that have purported to represent us, have done some very very dumb things, but occasionally it does some good ones. So do other governments and so does the EU. The EU Commission is currently in panic mode. Eventually it will calm down. Much of this is rhetoric to cover up bad decisions, which is exactly what our government does. Quelle surprise!Leon said:
The sane, calm, coolly logical position is hatred of the EU and its member governments, right now. With their cretinous, lunatic smearing of the AZ vaccine they have already killed many people, their new proposals will kill many more. Even as they sit on unused doses of the same vaccine. Unused because of their own stupidity.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
I don’t know about you but I hate stupid, self-serving institutions that willfully kill lots of people
Try hating less, it will make you happier, and maybe stop reading the Daily Express and believing that every hot headed continental MEP (or French president) speaks on behalf of the whole of the 27 nation EU.2 -
There are a number of "Leavers" on this site that I have respect for. "Leon", on the other hand is one of those that neatly fits into the stereotype of the frothing hate filled EU obsessive who will be banging on about "the vaccines" well into his dotage as a way of trying to give respectability to the fact that he really just hates French/Germans/ Dutch...etc etc. Sad small minded little man. He needs to get out into the world a bit more and show everyone a little more love.Richard_Nabavi said:
Why so? We happen at the moment to have a third-rate charlatan and world-class liar as PM, and a cabinet of nonentities, who between them have wrecked trade completely unnecessarily and screwed up the Covid response so badly that tens of thousands have died unnecessarily. That doesn't mean that we need to come to the view that it would be a good idea to break up the United Kingdom.Leon said:
I do feel a certain sympathy for ardent Remainers right now. The cognitive dissonance must be like a 200 decibel klaxon constantly shrieking, a metre away. Agonizing.Philip_Thompson said:
When the EU are impounding vaccines bought and paid for by Covax to aid the third world during the pandemic and you are rushing out to condemn those criticising the EU then you have rather misplaced your moral compass.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
Like a true believer seeing the feet of clay. Like cultists being deprogrammed. The process - I’m serious here - is known to cause great mental pain1 -
Nigel can't keep track of his own thoughts.Endillion said:
Aha. Another attempt to pretend that the likes of Manfred Weber - leader of the largest bloc vote in the European Parliament - has zero power or influence, and is roughly speaking the EU equivalent of Lembit Opik, circa 2007.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think I "have a grip", thanks . Whether the current EU Commission, or the anti-EU obsessives such as yourself do I would say is open to debate.Leon said:
This isn’t empty ‘rhetoric’. This is going to kill people with a terrible plague, just as their venal incompetence has already killed people. Get a grip, manNigel_Foremain said:
Let me let you into a secret, that may have eluded you. Our government, and previous governments that have purported to represent us, have done some very very dumb things, but occasionally it does some good ones. So do other governments and so does the EU. The EU Commission is currently in panic mode. Eventually it will calm down. Much of this is rhetoric to cover up bad decisions, which is exactly what our government does. Quelle surprise!Leon said:
The sane, calm, coolly logical position is hatred of the EU and its member governments, right now. With their cretinous, lunatic smearing of the AZ vaccine they have already killed many people, their new proposals will kill many more. Even as they sit on unused doses of the same vaccine. Unused because of their own stupidity.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
I don’t know about you but I hate stupid, self-serving institutions that willfully kill lots of people
Try hating less, it will make you happier, and maybe stop reading the Daily Express and believing that every hot headed continental MEP (or French president) speaks on behalf of the whole of the 27 nation EU.
Apparently the EU is a democracy because it has a Parliament, but apparently the leader of the largest party in that Parliament is entirely irrelevant and should be ignored.
Be good to know which it is.2 -
There's a lot of great talent that really doesn't want to work on what are perceived as soul destroying projects in banks. If you look to recruit in Nottingham, Birmingham etc (especially with the ubiquity of remote working, and the ability to build local clusters of employees who can meet up socially) it can improve everyone's quality of life.Malmesbury said:
Quite possibly - though if you pay lower wages than London, all the top talent goes there.eek said:
London and Bulgaria / Sofia from memory.Malmesbury said:
Quite standard - the productivity multiplier is as real as the wage multiplier.FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember quite a few years ago hiring an Indian firm to build a website for a new business I setup...it was the most frustrating experience of my life. I would point out issues and obvious mistakes, be told yes yes we have it covered, and the next revision, not only would they not be fixed, they had managed to introduce more. I think it took 3-4 months before I had to bin them off and hire some people in Estonia, who sorted it all in a few weeks.Slackbladder said:I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.
Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.
It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.
You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.
When you put them together - the cost vs work actually done is rather interesting.
One company I work for discovered that the cheapest locations for software development were, in order
1) London and Eastern Europe tied in first place
2) US
3) Canada
4) India
Eastern Europe can be very expensive now as productivity isn't as great as it might be.
I would argue that nearshoring to other UK cities will easily match London and might work out cheaper.
I've encountered a few attempts to setup up software development around the UK. The ones that have succeeded have to pay big wages to stop the drift to London. As in at least 2/3rd of the London rate...1 -
-
The other problem being that people have and do quote the musings of Sir Useless Backbench-Fossil (of the Hampshire Backbench-Fossils), or Farage, as representative of views in the UK too.Endillion said:
Aha. Another attempt to pretend that the likes of Manfred Weber - leader of the largest bloc vote in the European Parliament - has zero power or influence, and is roughly speaking the EU equivalent of Lembit Opik, circa 2007.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think I "have a grip", thanks . Whether the current EU Commission, or the anti-EU obsessives such as yourself do I would say is open to debate.Leon said:
This isn’t empty ‘rhetoric’. This is going to kill people with a terrible plague, just as their venal incompetence has already killed people. Get a grip, manNigel_Foremain said:
Let me let you into a secret, that may have eluded you. Our government, and previous governments that have purported to represent us, have done some very very dumb things, but occasionally it does some good ones. So do other governments and so does the EU. The EU Commission is currently in panic mode. Eventually it will calm down. Much of this is rhetoric to cover up bad decisions, which is exactly what our government does. Quelle surprise!Leon said:
The sane, calm, coolly logical position is hatred of the EU and its member governments, right now. With their cretinous, lunatic smearing of the AZ vaccine they have already killed many people, their new proposals will kill many more. Even as they sit on unused doses of the same vaccine. Unused because of their own stupidity.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
I don’t know about you but I hate stupid, self-serving institutions that willfully kill lots of people
Try hating less, it will make you happier, and maybe stop reading the Daily Express and believing that every hot headed continental MEP (or French president) speaks on behalf of the whole of the 27 nation EU.1 -
(But 2/3 the London rate means for every 3 employees, you get one free!)mwadams said:
There's a lot of great talent that really doesn't want to work on what are perceived as soul destroying projects in banks. If you look to recruit in Nottingham, Birmingham etc (especially with the ubiquity of remote working, and the ability to build local clusters of employees who can meet up socially) it can improve everyone's quality of life.Malmesbury said:
Quite possibly - though if you pay lower wages than London, all the top talent goes there.eek said:
London and Bulgaria / Sofia from memory.Malmesbury said:
Quite standard - the productivity multiplier is as real as the wage multiplier.FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember quite a few years ago hiring an Indian firm to build a website for a new business I setup...it was the most frustrating experience of my life. I would point out issues and obvious mistakes, be told yes yes we have it covered, and the next revision, not only would they not be fixed, they had managed to introduce more. I think it took 3-4 months before I had to bin them off and hire some people in Estonia, who sorted it all in a few weeks.Slackbladder said:I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.
Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.
It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.
You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.
When you put them together - the cost vs work actually done is rather interesting.
One company I work for discovered that the cheapest locations for software development were, in order
1) London and Eastern Europe tied in first place
2) US
3) Canada
4) India
Eastern Europe can be very expensive now as productivity isn't as great as it might be.
I would argue that nearshoring to other UK cities will easily match London and might work out cheaper.
I've encountered a few attempts to setup up software development around the UK. The ones that have succeeded have to pay big wages to stop the drift to London. As in at least 2/3rd of the London rate...0 -
Not really - the cost of living in Manchester means that £50,000 rather than £55k goes a whole lot further.Malmesbury said:
Quite possibly - though if you pay lower wages than London, all the top talent goes there.eek said:
London and Bulgaria / Sofia from memory.Malmesbury said:
Quite standard - the productivity multiplier is as real as the wage multiplier.FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember quite a few years ago hiring an Indian firm to build a website for a new business I setup...it was the most frustrating experience of my life. I would point out issues and obvious mistakes, be told yes yes we have it covered, and the next revision, not only would they not be fixed, they had managed to introduce more. I think it took 3-4 months before I had to bin them off and hire some people in Estonia, who sorted it all in a few weeks.Slackbladder said:I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.
Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.
It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.
You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.
When you put them together - the cost vs work actually done is rather interesting.
One company I work for discovered that the cheapest locations for software development were, in order
1) London and Eastern Europe tied in first place
2) US
3) Canada
4) India
Eastern Europe can be very expensive now as productivity isn't as great as it might be.
I would argue that nearshoring to other UK cities will easily match London and might work out cheaper.
I've encountered a few attempts to setup up software development around the UK. The ones that have succeeded have to pay big wages to stop the drift to London. As in at least 2/3rd of the London rate...
Head to the north east and you can easily find good Devs for that sort of money0 -
Yes - but if you offer wages of 50% of London rate or less (which I have seen), don't be surprised if you find all the good ones end up in London.mwadams said:
There's a lot of great talent that really doesn't want to work on what are perceived as soul destroying projects in banks. If you look to recruit in Nottingham, Birmingham etc (especially with the ubiquity of remote working, and the ability to build local clusters of employees who can meet up socially) it can improve everyone's quality of life.Malmesbury said:
Quite possibly - though if you pay lower wages than London, all the top talent goes there.eek said:
London and Bulgaria / Sofia from memory.Malmesbury said:
Quite standard - the productivity multiplier is as real as the wage multiplier.FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember quite a few years ago hiring an Indian firm to build a website for a new business I setup...it was the most frustrating experience of my life. I would point out issues and obvious mistakes, be told yes yes we have it covered, and the next revision, not only would they not be fixed, they had managed to introduce more. I think it took 3-4 months before I had to bin them off and hire some people in Estonia, who sorted it all in a few weeks.Slackbladder said:I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.
Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.
It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.
You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.
When you put them together - the cost vs work actually done is rather interesting.
One company I work for discovered that the cheapest locations for software development were, in order
1) London and Eastern Europe tied in first place
2) US
3) Canada
4) India
Eastern Europe can be very expensive now as productivity isn't as great as it might be.
I would argue that nearshoring to other UK cities will easily match London and might work out cheaper.
I've encountered a few attempts to setup up software development around the UK. The ones that have succeeded have to pay big wages to stop the drift to London. As in at least 2/3rd of the London rate...0 -
-
I think Starmer is okay, it’s the rest of the Labour Party (including the front bench, which is Starmer’s fault to be fair) that’s the problem.londonpubman said:PMQs is really becoming the 'Let's all laugh at Keir show' isn't it?
He really has no idea.0 -
Leave him where he is. The world has enough problems without him getting out more.Nigel_Foremain said:
There are a number of "Leavers" on this site that I have respect for. "Leon", on the other hand is one of those that neatly fits into the stereotype of the frothing hate filled EU obsessive who will be banging on about "the vaccines" well into his dotage as a way of trying to give respectability to the fact that he really just hates French/Germans/ Dutch...etc etc. Sad small minded little man. He needs to get out into the world a bit more and show everyone a little more love.Richard_Nabavi said:
Why so? We happen at the moment to have a third-rate charlatan and world-class liar as PM, and a cabinet of nonentities, who between them have wrecked trade completely unnecessarily and screwed up the Covid response so badly that tens of thousands have died unnecessarily. That doesn't mean that we need to come to the view that it would be a good idea to break up the United Kingdom.Leon said:
I do feel a certain sympathy for ardent Remainers right now. The cognitive dissonance must be like a 200 decibel klaxon constantly shrieking, a metre away. Agonizing.Philip_Thompson said:
When the EU are impounding vaccines bought and paid for by Covax to aid the third world during the pandemic and you are rushing out to condemn those criticising the EU then you have rather misplaced your moral compass.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
Like a true believer seeing the feet of clay. Like cultists being deprogrammed. The process - I’m serious here - is known to cause great mental pain4 -
1
-
It is called rhetoric Philip. Try looking it up, it might broaden your understanding of politics and international realpolitik. Actually also look up that last word too that may help you.Philip_Thompson said:
Nigel can't keep track of his own thoughts.Endillion said:
Aha. Another attempt to pretend that the likes of Manfred Weber - leader of the largest bloc vote in the European Parliament - has zero power or influence, and is roughly speaking the EU equivalent of Lembit Opik, circa 2007.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think I "have a grip", thanks . Whether the current EU Commission, or the anti-EU obsessives such as yourself do I would say is open to debate.Leon said:
This isn’t empty ‘rhetoric’. This is going to kill people with a terrible plague, just as their venal incompetence has already killed people. Get a grip, manNigel_Foremain said:
Let me let you into a secret, that may have eluded you. Our government, and previous governments that have purported to represent us, have done some very very dumb things, but occasionally it does some good ones. So do other governments and so does the EU. The EU Commission is currently in panic mode. Eventually it will calm down. Much of this is rhetoric to cover up bad decisions, which is exactly what our government does. Quelle surprise!Leon said:
The sane, calm, coolly logical position is hatred of the EU and its member governments, right now. With their cretinous, lunatic smearing of the AZ vaccine they have already killed many people, their new proposals will kill many more. Even as they sit on unused doses of the same vaccine. Unused because of their own stupidity.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
I don’t know about you but I hate stupid, self-serving institutions that willfully kill lots of people
Try hating less, it will make you happier, and maybe stop reading the Daily Express and believing that every hot headed continental MEP (or French president) speaks on behalf of the whole of the 27 nation EU.
Apparently the EU is a democracy because it has a Parliament, but apparently the leader of the largest party in that Parliament is entirely irrelevant and should be ignored.
Be good to know which it is.
That was quite civil of me wasn't it ? The "Be Nice to Idiots " course I have been on is definitely working.0 -
Because the cost of living isn't double in London probably. So in real terms you are trying to pay them less to do the same job. For example I am moving from the South east to devon soon. My cost of living will only reduce however by about 10%. You try and only pay me half my wage because I am not in the south east then yes you will be politely told no thanks.Malmesbury said:
Yes - but if you offer wages of 50% of London rate or less (which I have seen), don't be surprised if you find all the good ones end up in London.mwadams said:
There's a lot of great talent that really doesn't want to work on what are perceived as soul destroying projects in banks. If you look to recruit in Nottingham, Birmingham etc (especially with the ubiquity of remote working, and the ability to build local clusters of employees who can meet up socially) it can improve everyone's quality of life.Malmesbury said:
Quite possibly - though if you pay lower wages than London, all the top talent goes there.eek said:
London and Bulgaria / Sofia from memory.Malmesbury said:
Quite standard - the productivity multiplier is as real as the wage multiplier.FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember quite a few years ago hiring an Indian firm to build a website for a new business I setup...it was the most frustrating experience of my life. I would point out issues and obvious mistakes, be told yes yes we have it covered, and the next revision, not only would they not be fixed, they had managed to introduce more. I think it took 3-4 months before I had to bin them off and hire some people in Estonia, who sorted it all in a few weeks.Slackbladder said:I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.
Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.
It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.
You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.
When you put them together - the cost vs work actually done is rather interesting.
One company I work for discovered that the cheapest locations for software development were, in order
1) London and Eastern Europe tied in first place
2) US
3) Canada
4) India
Eastern Europe can be very expensive now as productivity isn't as great as it might be.
I would argue that nearshoring to other UK cities will easily match London and might work out cheaper.
I've encountered a few attempts to setup up software development around the UK. The ones that have succeeded have to pay big wages to stop the drift to London. As in at least 2/3rd of the London rate...1 -
Straw man. No one ever believed that the UK government is almost flawless, near-perfect, incapable of major error and clearly superior to EU governance on any and every issue. Oh wait, you did. You thought our Chancellor Geo Osborne was literally ‘near perfect’Richard_Nabavi said:
Why so? We happen at the moment to have a third-rate charlatan and world-class liar as PM, and a cabinet of nonentities, who between them have wrecked trade completely unnecessarily and screwed up the Covid response so badly that tens of thousands have died unnecessarily. That doesn't mean that we need to come to the view that it would be a good idea to break up the United Kingdom.Leon said:
I do feel a certain sympathy for ardent Remainers right now. The cognitive dissonance must be like a 200 decibel klaxon constantly shrieking, a metre away. Agonizing.Philip_Thompson said:
When the EU are impounding vaccines bought and paid for by Covax to aid the third world during the pandemic and you are rushing out to condemn those criticising the EU then you have rather misplaced your moral compass.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
Like a true believer seeing the feet of clay. Like cultists being deprogrammed. The process - I’m serious here - is known to cause great mental pain
Setting rare and precious fools like you aside, no one else thinks like that.
Yet plenty of Remainers DO have this quasi-religious devotion to the EU, and find any criticism of it virtually unbearable, as it is tantamount to heresy.
Google ‘Strasbourg Syndrome’ for more information0 -
Yes, there are double standards around Invictus.noneoftheabove said:
Amazing double standards around Harry. He has set up the Invictus games which changed many peoples lives from overwhelming struggle to one of hope and achievement. That already puts him in the top 0.1% or better of people influencing and improving others lives.Cyclefree said:
What does this company actually do? I have an interest in mental health provision because I have personal experience of what it does to people and their families.Charles said:
Not at all. It’s very important.Cyclefree said:
It's a non-job.Gallowgate said:Genuine question: what right does Prince Harry have to work in the USA? Does he have a right to work by virtue of being married to an American? Does he need a visa?
I've always been curious.
He’s not just making oodles of money giving speeches to investment bankers and documentaries for Netflix.
He’s working for a *mental health* company
He’s not such a bad guy giving up his valuable time like that...
Lots of people talk about it. It has become really quite fashionable to do so. Actual practical help is rather thin on the ground, especially afterwards. Try getting a job from companies after explaining that your patchy CV is because of mental health illness and you will find that their interest in better mental health vanishes as fast as snow in summer.
If he is going to do something practical to help with that, good on him. If it's just another talking shop or another forum for him to talk about himself, not so good.
I remember a few years earlier Jimmy Carr made a joke that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq would mean Britain would soon have a brilliant Paralympic team, and he got absolute pelters for it.
1 -
I remember a bunch of companies having to close up shop in the Reading corridor... One manager was flabbergasted - "But I sold the board on 50% of London wages - so it would payback in the first year! 2/3rds wouldn't do that!"mwadams said:
(But 2/3 the London rate means for every 3 employees, you get one free!)mwadams said:
There's a lot of great talent that really doesn't want to work on what are perceived as soul destroying projects in banks. If you look to recruit in Nottingham, Birmingham etc (especially with the ubiquity of remote working, and the ability to build local clusters of employees who can meet up socially) it can improve everyone's quality of life.Malmesbury said:
Quite possibly - though if you pay lower wages than London, all the top talent goes there.eek said:
London and Bulgaria / Sofia from memory.Malmesbury said:
Quite standard - the productivity multiplier is as real as the wage multiplier.FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember quite a few years ago hiring an Indian firm to build a website for a new business I setup...it was the most frustrating experience of my life. I would point out issues and obvious mistakes, be told yes yes we have it covered, and the next revision, not only would they not be fixed, they had managed to introduce more. I think it took 3-4 months before I had to bin them off and hire some people in Estonia, who sorted it all in a few weeks.Slackbladder said:I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.
Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.
It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.
You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.
When you put them together - the cost vs work actually done is rather interesting.
One company I work for discovered that the cheapest locations for software development were, in order
1) London and Eastern Europe tied in first place
2) US
3) Canada
4) India
Eastern Europe can be very expensive now as productivity isn't as great as it might be.
I would argue that nearshoring to other UK cities will easily match London and might work out cheaper.
I've encountered a few attempts to setup up software development around the UK. The ones that have succeeded have to pay big wages to stop the drift to London. As in at least 2/3rd of the London rate...
The fuckwittery of UK Management summed up....0 -
...but but but....I thought according to all Brexity folk, the European Parliament has no teeth?Endillion said:
Aha. Another attempt to pretend that the likes of Manfred Weber - leader of the largest bloc vote in the European Parliament - has zero power or influence, and is roughly speaking the EU equivalent of Lembit Opik, circa 2007.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think I "have a grip", thanks . Whether the current EU Commission, or the anti-EU obsessives such as yourself do I would say is open to debate.Leon said:
This isn’t empty ‘rhetoric’. This is going to kill people with a terrible plague, just as their venal incompetence has already killed people. Get a grip, manNigel_Foremain said:
Let me let you into a secret, that may have eluded you. Our government, and previous governments that have purported to represent us, have done some very very dumb things, but occasionally it does some good ones. So do other governments and so does the EU. The EU Commission is currently in panic mode. Eventually it will calm down. Much of this is rhetoric to cover up bad decisions, which is exactly what our government does. Quelle surprise!Leon said:
The sane, calm, coolly logical position is hatred of the EU and its member governments, right now. With their cretinous, lunatic smearing of the AZ vaccine they have already killed many people, their new proposals will kill many more. Even as they sit on unused doses of the same vaccine. Unused because of their own stupidity.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
I don’t know about you but I hate stupid, self-serving institutions that willfully kill lots of people
Try hating less, it will make you happier, and maybe stop reading the Daily Express and believing that every hot headed continental MEP (or French president) speaks on behalf of the whole of the 27 nation EU.
Seriously though, of course he is influential, but he no more speaks on behalf of the whole of the EU than Nicola Sturgeon speaks on behalf of the whole of the UK. (Another lesson in Politics for Dummies delivered)0 -
Biden sees himself as a two-term president
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/544622-biden-sees-himself-as-a-two-term-president0 -
Its not rhetoric, it is dishonest idiocy.Nigel_Foremain said:
It is called rhetoric Philip. Try looking it up, it might broaden your understanding of politics and international realpolitik. Actually also look up that last word too that may help you.Philip_Thompson said:
Nigel can't keep track of his own thoughts.Endillion said:
Aha. Another attempt to pretend that the likes of Manfred Weber - leader of the largest bloc vote in the European Parliament - has zero power or influence, and is roughly speaking the EU equivalent of Lembit Opik, circa 2007.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think I "have a grip", thanks . Whether the current EU Commission, or the anti-EU obsessives such as yourself do I would say is open to debate.Leon said:
This isn’t empty ‘rhetoric’. This is going to kill people with a terrible plague, just as their venal incompetence has already killed people. Get a grip, manNigel_Foremain said:
Let me let you into a secret, that may have eluded you. Our government, and previous governments that have purported to represent us, have done some very very dumb things, but occasionally it does some good ones. So do other governments and so does the EU. The EU Commission is currently in panic mode. Eventually it will calm down. Much of this is rhetoric to cover up bad decisions, which is exactly what our government does. Quelle surprise!Leon said:
The sane, calm, coolly logical position is hatred of the EU and its member governments, right now. With their cretinous, lunatic smearing of the AZ vaccine they have already killed many people, their new proposals will kill many more. Even as they sit on unused doses of the same vaccine. Unused because of their own stupidity.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
I don’t know about you but I hate stupid, self-serving institutions that willfully kill lots of people
Try hating less, it will make you happier, and maybe stop reading the Daily Express and believing that every hot headed continental MEP (or French president) speaks on behalf of the whole of the 27 nation EU.
Apparently the EU is a democracy because it has a Parliament, but apparently the leader of the largest party in that Parliament is entirely irrelevant and should be ignored.
Be good to know which it is.
That was quite civil of me wasn't it ? The "Be Nice to Idiots " course I have been on is definitely working.
If you wanted to broaden your understanding of politics and international realpolitik, then you might not engage in such idiotic dishonesty.
Here's something I wrote for the site over a month ago that's relevant here, maybe you should stop being so idiotic and get your own thoughts in order: https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/02/16/in-feint-praise-of-ursula-von-der-leyen/1 -
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1374695358979248132
Keir on fire today, Labour can win on the armed forces0 -
"The Chinese are buying into our private schools and we should be grateful
Chinese investment in our education system is ringing alarm bells but let's not assume the worst. It could be the edge our children need
ANNABEL HESELTINE"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education-and-careers/2021/03/24/chinese-buying-private-schools-should-grateful/0 -
Didn't they realise that the cost of living in the M4 and M3 corridors is damn nearly the same as for jobs in London?Malmesbury said:
I remember a bunch of companies having to close up shop in the Reading corridor... One manager was flabbergasted - "But I sold the board on 50% of London wages - so it would payback in the first year! 2/3rds wouldn't do that!"mwadams said:
(But 2/3 the London rate means for every 3 employees, you get one free!)mwadams said:
There's a lot of great talent that really doesn't want to work on what are perceived as soul destroying projects in banks. If you look to recruit in Nottingham, Birmingham etc (especially with the ubiquity of remote working, and the ability to build local clusters of employees who can meet up socially) it can improve everyone's quality of life.Malmesbury said:
Quite possibly - though if you pay lower wages than London, all the top talent goes there.eek said:
London and Bulgaria / Sofia from memory.Malmesbury said:
Quite standard - the productivity multiplier is as real as the wage multiplier.FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember quite a few years ago hiring an Indian firm to build a website for a new business I setup...it was the most frustrating experience of my life. I would point out issues and obvious mistakes, be told yes yes we have it covered, and the next revision, not only would they not be fixed, they had managed to introduce more. I think it took 3-4 months before I had to bin them off and hire some people in Estonia, who sorted it all in a few weeks.Slackbladder said:I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.
Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.
It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.
You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.
When you put them together - the cost vs work actually done is rather interesting.
One company I work for discovered that the cheapest locations for software development were, in order
1) London and Eastern Europe tied in first place
2) US
3) Canada
4) India
Eastern Europe can be very expensive now as productivity isn't as great as it might be.
I would argue that nearshoring to other UK cities will easily match London and might work out cheaper.
I've encountered a few attempts to setup up software development around the UK. The ones that have succeeded have to pay big wages to stop the drift to London. As in at least 2/3rd of the London rate...
The fuckwittery of UK Management summed up....
They missed that tens of thousands of people leave Reading, Bracknell, Basingstoke and a dozen places in between, on the train for London every morning! (when there's not a pandemic on).0 -
CorrectHorseBattery said:
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1374695358979248132
Keir on fire today, Labour can win on the armed forces
3 -
-
Exactly. This thinking is why there hasn't been a tidal wave of movement of jobs out of London.Pagan2 said:
Because the cost of living isn't double in London probably. So in real terms you are trying to pay them less to do the same job. For example I am moving from the South east to devon soon. My cost of living will only reduce however by about 10%. You try and only pay me half my wage because I am not in the south east then yes you will be politely told no thanks.Malmesbury said:
Yes - but if you offer wages of 50% of London rate or less (which I have seen), don't be surprised if you find all the good ones end up in London.mwadams said:
There's a lot of great talent that really doesn't want to work on what are perceived as soul destroying projects in banks. If you look to recruit in Nottingham, Birmingham etc (especially with the ubiquity of remote working, and the ability to build local clusters of employees who can meet up socially) it can improve everyone's quality of life.Malmesbury said:
Quite possibly - though if you pay lower wages than London, all the top talent goes there.eek said:
London and Bulgaria / Sofia from memory.Malmesbury said:
Quite standard - the productivity multiplier is as real as the wage multiplier.FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember quite a few years ago hiring an Indian firm to build a website for a new business I setup...it was the most frustrating experience of my life. I would point out issues and obvious mistakes, be told yes yes we have it covered, and the next revision, not only would they not be fixed, they had managed to introduce more. I think it took 3-4 months before I had to bin them off and hire some people in Estonia, who sorted it all in a few weeks.Slackbladder said:I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.
Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.
It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.
You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.
When you put them together - the cost vs work actually done is rather interesting.
One company I work for discovered that the cheapest locations for software development were, in order
1) London and Eastern Europe tied in first place
2) US
3) Canada
4) India
Eastern Europe can be very expensive now as productivity isn't as great as it might be.
I would argue that nearshoring to other UK cities will easily match London and might work out cheaper.
I've encountered a few attempts to setup up software development around the UK. The ones that have succeeded have to pay big wages to stop the drift to London. As in at least 2/3rd of the London rate...
To expect people to not merely cut their pay, but cut their standard of living for the privilege of moving......0 -
😂😂😂😂😂CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1374695358979248132
Keir on fire today, Labour can win on the armed forces
You watched a different PMQs to me then. Keir was ridiculous and hasn't a leg to stand on.4 -
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But surely these poor countries in the developing world fail the reciprocity criterion, because they aren't exporting vaccines to the EU?Malmesbury said:
He's missed out the best bit - COVAX is enthusiastically supported by both the EU and the Italian government.Leon said:
https://twitter.com/macaesbruno/status/1374688979472281607?s=21Philip_Thompson said:
Yes actually.MattW said:
No.kamski said:
Has anyone actually stolen any vaccines from Covax?Floater said:
They need to be publicly shamed by the world communityRobD said:
So not only stealing from the UK, but also stealing from the less well-off in a pathetic attempt to hide their own failures. Sick.CarlottaVance said:
However, MEPs seem to be going increasingly bananas.
Doses due to go to Covax have been impounded.
Every day they're impounded rather than injected is lives lost.2 -
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Your flailing is spectacularNigel_Foremain said:
...but but but....I thought according to all Brexity folk, the European Parliament has no teeth?Endillion said:
Aha. Another attempt to pretend that the likes of Manfred Weber - leader of the largest bloc vote in the European Parliament - has zero power or influence, and is roughly speaking the EU equivalent of Lembit Opik, circa 2007.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think I "have a grip", thanks . Whether the current EU Commission, or the anti-EU obsessives such as yourself do I would say is open to debate.Leon said:
This isn’t empty ‘rhetoric’. This is going to kill people with a terrible plague, just as their venal incompetence has already killed people. Get a grip, manNigel_Foremain said:
Let me let you into a secret, that may have eluded you. Our government, and previous governments that have purported to represent us, have done some very very dumb things, but occasionally it does some good ones. So do other governments and so does the EU. The EU Commission is currently in panic mode. Eventually it will calm down. Much of this is rhetoric to cover up bad decisions, which is exactly what our government does. Quelle surprise!Leon said:
The sane, calm, coolly logical position is hatred of the EU and its member governments, right now. With their cretinous, lunatic smearing of the AZ vaccine they have already killed many people, their new proposals will kill many more. Even as they sit on unused doses of the same vaccine. Unused because of their own stupidity.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
I don’t know about you but I hate stupid, self-serving institutions that willfully kill lots of people
Try hating less, it will make you happier, and maybe stop reading the Daily Express and believing that every hot headed continental MEP (or French president) speaks on behalf of the whole of the 27 nation EU.
Seriously though, of course he is influential, but he no more speaks on behalf of the whole of the EU than Nicola Sturgeon speaks on behalf of the whole of the UK. (Another lesson in Politics for Dummies delivered)
I recall an ancient Star Trek episode where Cap’n Kirk was tortured by an insanely loud noise in his head that no one else could hear. To give the sense of internal pain to the TV viewer, William Shatner writhed around on the dusty ground of the alien planet, like a lively porpoise passing a sizable kidney stone. That’s you, that is2 -
The bigger problem for Labour was exemplified by shadow home secretary on Sky earlier, responding to Patel clamp down on illegal immigration, he kept saying well we can't do that its illegal, to which even fat head responded, but the government makes the law and they are saying such actions will then be in their power, so do you agree with the sentiment of trying to cut down illegls immigration, to which Labourite reaponds but against the law for government to do so, fat head, that is why government changing the law, but its against the law...rottenborough said:
Just looked totally weak on illegal immigration.3 -
That's a shockingly poor comparison, since Sturgeon isn't even a member of the UK Parliament. The direct UK equivalent would be Boris Johnson.Nigel_Foremain said:
...but but but....I thought according to all Brexity folk, the European Parliament has no teeth?Endillion said:
Aha. Another attempt to pretend that the likes of Manfred Weber - leader of the largest bloc vote in the European Parliament - has zero power or influence, and is roughly speaking the EU equivalent of Lembit Opik, circa 2007.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think I "have a grip", thanks . Whether the current EU Commission, or the anti-EU obsessives such as yourself do I would say is open to debate.Leon said:
This isn’t empty ‘rhetoric’. This is going to kill people with a terrible plague, just as their venal incompetence has already killed people. Get a grip, manNigel_Foremain said:
Let me let you into a secret, that may have eluded you. Our government, and previous governments that have purported to represent us, have done some very very dumb things, but occasionally it does some good ones. So do other governments and so does the EU. The EU Commission is currently in panic mode. Eventually it will calm down. Much of this is rhetoric to cover up bad decisions, which is exactly what our government does. Quelle surprise!Leon said:
The sane, calm, coolly logical position is hatred of the EU and its member governments, right now. With their cretinous, lunatic smearing of the AZ vaccine they have already killed many people, their new proposals will kill many more. Even as they sit on unused doses of the same vaccine. Unused because of their own stupidity.Nigel_Foremain said:
Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?Leon said:We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe
The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.
Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
I don’t know about you but I hate stupid, self-serving institutions that willfully kill lots of people
Try hating less, it will make you happier, and maybe stop reading the Daily Express and believing that every hot headed continental MEP (or French president) speaks on behalf of the whole of the 27 nation EU.
Seriously though, of course he is influential, but he no more speaks on behalf of the whole of the EU than Nicola Sturgeon speaks on behalf of the whole of the UK. (Another lesson in Politics for Dummies delivered)
Also, I'm happy to play this either way: a) the EU Parliament is a bit of a joke and Weber is a no-mark, or b) it's a real thing, and Weber is important. Either way, you're just arguing against yourself.
I could also argue that the actual Parliament is a rubber stamping exercise, and the real power lies in behind-the-scenes lobbying by influential individuals like Weber, but I feel using that argument would put you at too much of a disadvantage. So I'll graciously agree to handicap myself by Leaving it off the table.2 -
I wonder if this new export policy will apply to all German goods. "Not a single BMW more until you supply us with Ladas."Chris said:
But surely these poor countries in the developing world fail the reciprocity criterion, because they aren't exporting vaccines to the EU?Malmesbury said:
He's missed out the best bit - COVAX is enthusiastically supported by both the EU and the Italian government.Leon said:
https://twitter.com/macaesbruno/status/1374688979472281607?s=21Philip_Thompson said:
Yes actually.MattW said:
No.kamski said:
Has anyone actually stolen any vaccines from Covax?Floater said:
They need to be publicly shamed by the world communityRobD said:
So not only stealing from the UK, but also stealing from the less well-off in a pathetic attempt to hide their own failures. Sick.CarlottaVance said:
However, MEPs seem to be going increasingly bananas.
Doses due to go to Covax have been impounded.
Every day they're impounded rather than injected is lives lost.3 -
That was the classic case of people being offended on behalf of others.No_Offence_Alan said:
Yes, there are double standards around Invictus.noneoftheabove said:
Amazing double standards around Harry. He has set up the Invictus games which changed many peoples lives from overwhelming struggle to one of hope and achievement. That already puts him in the top 0.1% or better of people influencing and improving others lives.Cyclefree said:
What does this company actually do? I have an interest in mental health provision because I have personal experience of what it does to people and their families.Charles said:
Not at all. It’s very important.Cyclefree said:
It's a non-job.Gallowgate said:Genuine question: what right does Prince Harry have to work in the USA? Does he have a right to work by virtue of being married to an American? Does he need a visa?
I've always been curious.
He’s not just making oodles of money giving speeches to investment bankers and documentaries for Netflix.
He’s working for a *mental health* company
He’s not such a bad guy giving up his valuable time like that...
Lots of people talk about it. It has become really quite fashionable to do so. Actual practical help is rather thin on the ground, especially afterwards. Try getting a job from companies after explaining that your patchy CV is because of mental health illness and you will find that their interest in better mental health vanishes as fast as snow in summer.
If he is going to do something practical to help with that, good on him. If it's just another talking shop or another forum for him to talk about himself, not so good.
I remember a few years earlier Jimmy Carr made a joke that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq would mean Britain would soon have a brilliant Paralympic team, and he got absolute pelters for it.
The war vets, of course, appreciated the dark humour - and went on to get dozens of Paralympic medals!0 -
How exactly? No one on the right would trust Labour to be in charge of a potato gun, and most of the Corbynites will run off to the Greens at the first hint of a good word for the 'imperialist' armed forces...CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1374695358979248132
Keir on fire today, Labour can win on the armed forces2 -
The Spanish and Irish figures are inexplicably badkle4 said:
At least when Malta overtakes the UK the EU can claim they are doing better than the UK, so may calm down.CarlottaVance said:Netherlands one week's data:
https://www.politico.eu/coronavirus-in-europe/0 -
Not really. They desperately needed somebody, anybody who would go on a three year exchange with the US Navy at zero notice as the previous draftee for the post refused to go. My name out of the Sorting Hat.Gallowgate said:Dura_Ace said:
I went through the Suez on Lusty in the late 90s. The Admiralty made us go through in the dark so nobody would know we were there - OF7 level strategic thinking. I did not take the helm! I never got to make the reverse passage as I was removed from the ship at Bahrain.Nigelb said:
There are varying accounts.Sandpit said:
It sounds like they had a power failure, rather than were trying to turn around. Vessels in canals and ports also have a local “Pilot” on board, who’s in charge of the vessel through their stretch of water.Time_to_Leave said:
What I don’t understand is how Captain Frank Spencer did it? I’ve never skippered a supertanker myself but it feels like at a certain point in the turn you’d think “hmmm, maybe not, I’ll never clear that”.Sandpit said:Looking at images of that stuck ship, and diagrams of the canal, it’s very, *very* stuck indeed.
It’s also an awful lot bigger than you think it is - it’s 400m long and 57m wide, weighs 220,000 tonnes, one of the largest vessels afloat.
They’re going to have to dredge plenty of canal out of the way, and probably take off hundreds of containers.
My prediction - 10 days to clear it, about the same time as the shipping diversion around Africa. Time to fill up your car with petrol.
I stand by my @Dura_Ace theory.
Were you voluntarily removed from the ship?1 -
All that outrage over Lee Hurst joke on twitter over the weekend...I was only thinking yesterday, it was the sort of gag Jimmy Carr would do, as a tame warm up one.Sandpit said:
That was the classic case of people being offended on behalf of others.No_Offence_Alan said:
Yes, there are double standards around Invictus.noneoftheabove said:
Amazing double standards around Harry. He has set up the Invictus games which changed many peoples lives from overwhelming struggle to one of hope and achievement. That already puts him in the top 0.1% or better of people influencing and improving others lives.Cyclefree said:
What does this company actually do? I have an interest in mental health provision because I have personal experience of what it does to people and their families.Charles said:
Not at all. It’s very important.Cyclefree said:
It's a non-job.Gallowgate said:Genuine question: what right does Prince Harry have to work in the USA? Does he have a right to work by virtue of being married to an American? Does he need a visa?
I've always been curious.
He’s not just making oodles of money giving speeches to investment bankers and documentaries for Netflix.
He’s working for a *mental health* company
He’s not such a bad guy giving up his valuable time like that...
Lots of people talk about it. It has become really quite fashionable to do so. Actual practical help is rather thin on the ground, especially afterwards. Try getting a job from companies after explaining that your patchy CV is because of mental health illness and you will find that their interest in better mental health vanishes as fast as snow in summer.
If he is going to do something practical to help with that, good on him. If it's just another talking shop or another forum for him to talk about himself, not so good.
I remember a few years earlier Jimmy Carr made a joke that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq would mean Britain would soon have a brilliant Paralympic team, and he got absolute pelters for it.
The war vets, of course, appreciated the dark humour - and went on to get dozens of Paralympic medals!1 -
Europe seeming more comfortable in its medieval past.Floater said:Descent into insanity
https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/13746947806770585611 -
They didn't so much miss it as not care - they needed to pitch a massive cost reductions in 1 year to get their promotions. Trebles all round as they say in Private Eye.Sandpit said:
Didn't they realise that the cost of living in the M4 and M3 corridors is damn nearly the same as for jobs in London?Malmesbury said:
I remember a bunch of companies having to close up shop in the Reading corridor... One manager was flabbergasted - "But I sold the board on 50% of London wages - so it would payback in the first year! 2/3rds wouldn't do that!"mwadams said:
(But 2/3 the London rate means for every 3 employees, you get one free!)mwadams said:
There's a lot of great talent that really doesn't want to work on what are perceived as soul destroying projects in banks. If you look to recruit in Nottingham, Birmingham etc (especially with the ubiquity of remote working, and the ability to build local clusters of employees who can meet up socially) it can improve everyone's quality of life.Malmesbury said:
Quite possibly - though if you pay lower wages than London, all the top talent goes there.eek said:
London and Bulgaria / Sofia from memory.Malmesbury said:
Quite standard - the productivity multiplier is as real as the wage multiplier.FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember quite a few years ago hiring an Indian firm to build a website for a new business I setup...it was the most frustrating experience of my life. I would point out issues and obvious mistakes, be told yes yes we have it covered, and the next revision, not only would they not be fixed, they had managed to introduce more. I think it took 3-4 months before I had to bin them off and hire some people in Estonia, who sorted it all in a few weeks.Slackbladder said:I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.
Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.
It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.
You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.
When you put them together - the cost vs work actually done is rather interesting.
One company I work for discovered that the cheapest locations for software development were, in order
1) London and Eastern Europe tied in first place
2) US
3) Canada
4) India
Eastern Europe can be very expensive now as productivity isn't as great as it might be.
I would argue that nearshoring to other UK cities will easily match London and might work out cheaper.
I've encountered a few attempts to setup up software development around the UK. The ones that have succeeded have to pay big wages to stop the drift to London. As in at least 2/3rd of the London rate...
The fuckwittery of UK Management summed up....
They missed that tens of thousands of people leave Reading, Bracknell, Basingstoke and a dozen places in between, on the train for London every morning! (when there's not a pandemic on).
So yes, the fact that the house prices in the area are set by London wages was ignored.
A friend who worked in London was offered to move to the new location in the same company, just round the corner from his house. When he pointed out that he wouldn't be able to pay his mortgage in the new job/location, this seemed to be taken as him being "difficult".1 -
The Cons defence cuts are wrongPhilip_Thompson said:
😂😂😂😂😂CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1374695358979248132
Keir on fire today, Labour can win on the armed forces
You watched a different PMQs to me then. Keir was ridiculous and hasn't a leg to stand on.
Saying that Labour really cannot expect to be taken seriously on defence
Some of us are old enough to remember the last government
Our troops sent to war on a huge lie (or 2)
inadequate supplies of
ammo
Body armour
Pain relief FFS
Helicopters
Unsuitable equipment (land rovers anyone)
Seriously - Labour can feck off on this one
Neither party is doing the right thing on Defence matters0 -
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Also - a part time defence secretary ...... at time of an ongoing conflictFloater said:
The Cons defence cuts are wrongPhilip_Thompson said:
😂😂😂😂😂CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1374695358979248132
Keir on fire today, Labour can win on the armed forces
You watched a different PMQs to me then. Keir was ridiculous and hasn't a leg to stand on.
Saying that Labour really cannot expect to be taken seriously on defence
Some of us are old enough to remember the last government
Our troops sent to war on a huge lie (or 2)
inadequate supplies of
ammo
Body armour
Pain relief FFS
Helicopters
Unsuitable equipment (land rovers anyone)
Seriously - Labour can feck off on this one
Neither party is doing the right thing on Defence matters1 -
I’m mystified. I thought they were meeting tomorrow to decide this? Doesn’t this make the EUCO session pointless?Floater said:
And, has anybody asked Ireland?
Reason We Left number 584 (in an infinite series): no one knows how the EU works, including the EU. It just moves in mysterious ways1 -
We need to find a way to throw 5m doses at RoI in June, to keep the CTA open, without annoying the EU in the process.Leon said:
The Spanish and Irish figures are inexplicably badkle4 said:
At least when Malta overtakes the UK the EU can claim they are doing better than the UK, so may calm down.CarlottaVance said:Netherlands one week's data:
https://www.politico.eu/coronavirus-in-europe/0 -
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Me. For lots of reasons but because it's the opposite of what tory shits want is a decent start.MalcolmDunn said:Who would be a remainer now?
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And people in the Republic trying to access jabs in the NorthLeon said:
The Spanish and Irish figures are inexplicably badkle4 said:
At least when Malta overtakes the UK the EU can claim they are doing better than the UK, so may calm down.CarlottaVance said:Netherlands one week's data:
https://www.politico.eu/coronavirus-in-europe/
Great advert for the EU0 -
Labour however is choosing whether to oppose based entirely on how it looks. They won’t oppose on anything Brexit related, because it would look bad, despite the fact that the government has got it wrong and is driving small businesses into bankruptcy and individuals into unemployment. Labour will oppose on the armed forces, because they think it looks good, despite the fact that we don’t need so many troops and the changes are probably sensible.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1374695358979248132
Keir on fire today, Labour can win on the armed forces
You’d expect Tories like HY who are always banging on about the Tory election manifesto to be more vocal with their criticism. But where are they?0 -
That is horribleCorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1374702065155444744
Terrible to hear this.0
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