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Latest Savanta/ComRes lockdown tracker finds declining levels of compliance particularly amongst the

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  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,548
    Andy_JS said:

    "But there is a group of people who have actually become happier in the past 12 months and they aren’t the super-rich sunbathing in the Maldives. According to research published today by the Policy Institute at King’s College London (KCL) and Ipsos Mori, one in five believe their lives have improved since last March and they feel more content, while 54 per cent say they will miss some aspects of the Covid-19 restrictions."

    [£]

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-truth-is-many-of-us-have-loved-lockdown-kc30kfgms

    Yep I am very much in that group. There are aspects I have disliked and I will look forward to the restrictions being lifted so I can see friends and family again but on the whole I have seen a massive improvement in quality of life during lockdown.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Genuine question: what right does Prince Harry have to work in the USA? Does he have a right to work by virtue of being married to an American? Does he need a visa?

    I've always been curious.

    It's a non-job.
    Not at all. It’s very important.

    He’s not just making oodles of money giving speeches to investment bankers and documentaries for Netflix.

    He’s working for a *mental health* company

    He’s not such a bad guy giving up his valuable time like that...
    What does this company actually do? I have an interest in mental health provision because I have personal experience of what it does to people and their families.

    Lots of people talk about it. It has become really quite fashionable to do so. Actual practical help is rather thin on the ground, especially afterwards. Try getting a job from companies after explaining that your patchy CV is because of mental health illness and you will find that their interest in better mental health vanishes as fast as snow in summer.

    If he is going to do something practical to help with that, good on him. If it's just another talking shop or another forum for him to talk about himself, not so good.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,210
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Looking at images of that stuck ship, and diagrams of the canal, it’s very, *very* stuck indeed.

    It’s also an awful lot bigger than you think it is - it’s 400m long and 57m wide, weighs 220,000 tonnes, one of the largest vessels afloat.

    They’re going to have to dredge plenty of canal out of the way, and probably take off hundreds of containers.

    My prediction - 10 days to clear it, about the same time as the shipping diversion around Africa. Time to fill up your car with petrol.

    What I don’t understand is how Captain Frank Spencer did it? I’ve never skippered a supertanker myself but it feels like at a certain point in the turn you’d think “hmmm, maybe not, I’ll never clear that”.
    It sounds like they had a power failure, rather than were trying to turn around. Vessels in canals and ports also have a local “Pilot” on board, who’s in charge of the vessel through their stretch of water.
    There are varying accounts.

    I stand by my @Dura_Ace theory.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    So not only stealing from the UK, but also stealing from the less well-off in a pathetic attempt to hide their own failures. Sick.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Genuine question: what right does Prince Harry have to work in the USA? Does he have a right to work by virtue of being married to an American? Does he need a visa?

    I've always been curious.

    It's a non-job.
    He'll still need the right to work. It may be a non-job, but they will be paying him is non-imaginary-money.

    If it's anything like the banks, it is another example of how money and influence works in the US. Quite simply, if you are working for a powerful enough entity in the US, they can sort you out working status in day or so.
    It’s a valid question though. Presumably he arrived on some sort of diplomatic visa which doesn’t permit ‘work’ in the usual sense of the word. Someone must have agreed some sort of working visa for him.
    I've seen people get full working status in the US very rapidly - not sure of the legal manoeuvres, but in the banks, it is almost as if they have a stack of blank green cards in HR.

    Someone will have signed off his paperwork, probably a while back.
    From a minutes google an EB5 visa sounds like an easy route for him, Im sure there are many others.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,548
    ClippP said:

    "Compliance with guidance is dipping slightly" - and for one I am not surprised. Polling seems to concentrate on the persona of Mr Johnson. But if it started asking about trust in the group of politicians who make up the government, I think the results would be rather different.

    For my part, I do not trust them one bit. Everything they say or do is done in the political interests of their own party, or in the financial interests of their cronies. I make up my own mind and act accordingly. In this I am guided by what I read, not least by posters on PB. In the end, what I do is much more cautious that most of the government has said and done.

    Am I alone in this?

    No I am exactly the same as you. Even when the restrictions were relaxed last summer I acted as if they were still in place. Pubs and restaurants remained a no no for me and I continued to limit contact with others as much as possible. Doing this meant that I felt safe seeing my Mum. It was a cost I was more than willing to pay for that.

  • I suppose "the truth" isn't an option as an explanation?
    The EU is now a post-truth organisation.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    RobD said:

    So not only stealing from the UK, but also stealing from the less well-off in a pathetic attempt to hide their own failures. Sick.
    They need to be publicly shamed by the world community
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    It would appear that the UK government is better informed about vaccine production in Italy than the Italian press (& government?)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Cyclefree said:

    Oh look -

    "The Committee on Standards in Public Life (CSPL) advises the Prime Minister on ethical standards across the whole of public life. It monitors and reports on issues relating to arrangements for upholding the standards of conduct of all public office holders.

    The Prime Minister is seeking independent members to join the Committee for a five year term.

    We are looking for high calibre individuals with a real interest in ethical standards and commitment to the principles of public life, who could make a strong contribution to the important work of this Committee."

    Is this what is known as performative art by the PM? A sort of elaborate joke on us all, the joke being that there is absolutely no point giving such advice because neither the PM nor anyone in his government will follow it?

    They reported on local government standards 2 years ago. The government still haven't responded to the recommendations.

    Yes, Brexit and then Covid, but plenty of other stuff has at least been responded to. Especially as they'll just say no to most of it as loads of tory councils dont like the recs.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Looking at images of that stuck ship, and diagrams of the canal, it’s very, *very* stuck indeed.

    It’s also an awful lot bigger than you think it is - it’s 400m long and 57m wide, weighs 220,000 tonnes, one of the largest vessels afloat.

    They’re going to have to dredge plenty of canal out of the way, and probably take off hundreds of containers.

    My prediction - 10 days to clear it, about the same time as the shipping diversion around Africa. Time to fill up your car with petrol.

    I'd be worried about the ones that have come 120 miles from the other end and now have to reverse...
    They travel in convoys and can’t turn around in the width of the canal, so would probably need to be backed out by tugs, one at a time.

    The accident is at the worst possible point in the whole system, travelling northbound close to Suez city in the south of the canal. There’s no way around the blockage, so all rescue equipment needs to come from the north down the whole canal, unless they first back out all the vessels behind it to the south.

    The canal doesn’t have a completely flat bottom, it’s sloped at both sides with a relatively small lane of full depth in the centre. It’s likely grounded on both bow and stern, with the bow embedded some 30m into the side of the bank. It’s probably damaged sufficiently at the bow to be taking on water, which won’t help it float.

    Possibly the only way they drag it out, is by using the similarly large ship behind, many tug boats and a lot of very large cables. Once it’s floating, they need to patch it up and move it out of the canal for repairs.

    I guess this is why shipping insurance is more expensive than you think it should be!
    And presumably it has a bulbous bow too.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Chameleon said:

    If Pfizer exports to us (and Israel) are blocked, retaliation is a must. This will set the tone for the future near-term EU-UK relationship, and rolling over isn't going to be good for us.

    It needs some high-level diplomatic thought as to how best to proceed though.

    Retaliating with anything to do with vaccine supplies is a bad idea, it’s playing their game and we’ve stayed above that frey so far.

    There’s plenty of other things we could do though, from diplomatic expulsions, to red-listing European countries, to banning lorry drivers. Oh, and a massive effort from all government departments, to persuade companies watching that the UK is a great place to do business.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    So I see that the EU is seeking to seize vaccines paid for by the UK/US destined for third world countries.

    Have Dave/Roger been along to explain why this makes the EU the good guys? Because from my view this is completely indefensible.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,827
    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Genuine question: what right does Prince Harry have to work in the USA? Does he have a right to work by virtue of being married to an American? Does he need a visa?

    I've always been curious.

    It's a non-job.
    Not at all. It’s very important.

    He’s not just making oodles of money giving speeches to investment bankers and documentaries for Netflix.

    He’s working for a *mental health* company

    He’s not such a bad guy giving up his valuable time like that...
    What does this company actually do? I have an interest in mental health provision because I have personal experience of what it does to people and their families.

    Lots of people talk about it. It has become really quite fashionable to do so. Actual practical help is rather thin on the ground, especially afterwards. Try getting a job from companies after explaining that your patchy CV is because of mental health illness and you will find that their interest in better mental health vanishes as fast as snow in summer.

    If he is going to do something practical to help with that, good on him. If it's just another talking shop or another forum for him to talk about himself, not so good.

    Amazing double standards around Harry. He has set up the Invictus games which changed many peoples lives from overwhelming struggle to one of hope and achievement. That already puts him in the top 0.1% or better of people influencing and improving others lives.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005

    This was foreseen - there is the gap between getting the most at risk groups vaccinated and getting to herd immunity levels.

    We are at 40%+ of all people having one vaccination.

    Israel is at 60%+ - which is at the lower bounds of herd immunity effect.

    In this gap, people are already saying "Isn't it over yet?"

    No, it isn't. Hence the roadmap.

    Add in those who have immunity through infection and it will be 60%+.

    Not to mention that the people who have been vaccinated are those most at risk.
    Indeed.

    Israel lifted lockdown on 7/2. They weren't at 60% vaccinated by 7/2 by a long shot. Especially since they were double-dosing the vulnerable.

    We've vaccinated as many people as Israel had by then.
    We've given ONE dose, not two.
    The effect of one dose brings down hospitalisations a long way (but not as far as two doses) and retards transmission and infection to an extent - but nowhere near as much as two doses.

    The double-dosing may be the key to retarding R.


  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Genuine question: what right does Prince Harry have to work in the USA? Does he have a right to work by virtue of being married to an American? Does he need a visa?

    I've always been curious.

    It's a non-job.
    He'll still need the right to work. It may be a non-job, but they will be paying him is non-imaginary-money.

    If it's anything like the banks, it is another example of how money and influence works in the US. Quite simply, if you are working for a powerful enough entity in the US, they can sort you out working status in day or so.
    It’s a valid question though. Presumably he arrived on some sort of diplomatic visa which doesn’t permit ‘work’ in the usual sense of the word. Someone must have agreed some sort of working visa for him.
    As someone who has followed the whole route of sponsorship by American spouse, obtainment of immigrant visa, issuing of green card and finally naturalization as a US citizen, I too have been curious as to how Harry’s followed the same route. Given that a glance at any British ex-pat or US immigration forum will reveal that backlogs have increased massively due to the pandemic, all I can say is that the gods of US Citizenship and Immigration Services must have been smiling upon him.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    It would appear that the UK government is better informed about vaccine production in Italy than the Italian press (& government?)
    Not difficult when there was a pile of issues and questions in January regarding vaccine packaging.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,548
    kamski said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Of course they can explain. It's just they don't want to because the answer would be embarrassing for them. So they're going to try and harm the population of another country to cover up their embarrassment, even if that results in some of those people dying or becoming ill.

    It is shameful and indefensible.
    It may be shameful and indefensible, but just in terms of people dying or becoming ill: if you could manage to take vaccines out of the arms of healthy 45 year old people in Britain and into the arms of 75 year old people in Spain, wouldn't you actually be saving lives?

    (without starting a vaccine war...)
    You would. But there are literally hundreds of millions of people more deserving in the world on that basis. Why should we be surrendering vaccines for a first world country that has screwed up their own vaccine programme even though they could well afford it when instead we could be sending it to equally at risk people in poorer countries who have no chance of being able to get the vaccine for months or even years.

    This is where the 'moral' argument falls down. If you wish to pursue that line of thinking then those who would receive the vaccine instead are no more in need or deserving of it than those hundreds of millions of others. Take to its logical conclusion the EU and the UK should stop jabbing their own people now and start sending all their vaccines overseas. (I am not advocating this just showing the logical failing of the argument being used)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Looking at images of that stuck ship, and diagrams of the canal, it’s very, *very* stuck indeed.

    It’s also an awful lot bigger than you think it is - it’s 400m long and 57m wide, weighs 220,000 tonnes, one of the largest vessels afloat.

    They’re going to have to dredge plenty of canal out of the way, and probably take off hundreds of containers.

    My prediction - 10 days to clear it, about the same time as the shipping diversion around Africa. Time to fill up your car with petrol.

    I'd be worried about the ones that have come 120 miles from the other end and now have to reverse...
    They travel in convoys and can’t turn around in the width of the canal, so would probably need to be backed out by tugs, one at a time.

    The accident is at the worst possible point in the whole system, travelling northbound close to Suez city in the south of the canal. There’s no way around the blockage, so all rescue equipment needs to come from the north down the whole canal, unless they first back out all the vessels behind it to the south.

    The canal doesn’t have a completely flat bottom, it’s sloped at both sides with a relatively small lane of full depth in the centre. It’s likely grounded on both bow and stern, with the bow embedded some 30m into the side of the bank. It’s probably damaged sufficiently at the bow to be taking on water, which won’t help it float.

    Possibly the only way they drag it out, is by using the similarly large ship behind, many tug boats and a lot of very large cables. Once it’s floating, they need to patch it up and move it out of the canal for repairs.

    I guess this is why shipping insurance is more expensive than you think it should be!
    And presumably it has a bulbous bow too.
    Yep! There’s a lot of bow in the canal side wall.
    https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1374597391463120896
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Looking at images of that stuck ship, and diagrams of the canal, it’s very, *very* stuck indeed.

    It’s also an awful lot bigger than you think it is - it’s 400m long and 57m wide, weighs 220,000 tonnes, one of the largest vessels afloat.

    They’re going to have to dredge plenty of canal out of the way, and probably take off hundreds of containers.

    My prediction - 10 days to clear it, about the same time as the shipping diversion around Africa. Time to fill up your car with petrol.

    What I don’t understand is how Captain Frank Spencer did it? I’ve never skippered a supertanker myself but it feels like at a certain point in the turn you’d think “hmmm, maybe not, I’ll never clear that”.
    It sounds like they had a power failure, rather than were trying to turn around. Vessels in canals and ports also have a local “Pilot” on board, who’s in charge of the vessel through their stretch of water.
    As I said earlier the ship was hit by gale force winds and on the assumption it also had engine failure than those are the perfect ingredients to cause this shipping nightmare
    We can close the Severn and Forth bridges to high-sided vehicles in gale force winds, but nobody thought to close it to something that (like a road juggernaut), could close it to all traffic?

    There's going to be quite a shake-up after this. World freight is going to demand it.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    Floater said:

    RobD said:

    So not only stealing from the UK, but also stealing from the less well-off in a pathetic attempt to hide their own failures. Sick.
    They need to be publicly shamed by the world community
    Has anyone actually stolen any vaccines from Covax?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,586

    Andy_JS said:

    "But there is a group of people who have actually become happier in the past 12 months and they aren’t the super-rich sunbathing in the Maldives. According to research published today by the Policy Institute at King’s College London (KCL) and Ipsos Mori, one in five believe their lives have improved since last March and they feel more content, while 54 per cent say they will miss some aspects of the Covid-19 restrictions."

    [£]

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-truth-is-many-of-us-have-loved-lockdown-kc30kfgms

    Yep I am very much in that group. There are aspects I have disliked and I will look forward to the restrictions being lifted so I can see friends and family again but on the whole I have seen a massive improvement in quality of life during lockdown.
    Why?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    kamski said:

    Floater said:

    RobD said:

    So not only stealing from the UK, but also stealing from the less well-off in a pathetic attempt to hide their own failures. Sick.
    They need to be publicly shamed by the world community
    Has anyone actually stolen any vaccines from Covax?
    The Italians seem keen on seizing them.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    kamski said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Of course they can explain. It's just they don't want to because the answer would be embarrassing for them. So they're going to try and harm the population of another country to cover up their embarrassment, even if that results in some of those people dying or becoming ill.

    It is shameful and indefensible.
    It may be shameful and indefensible, but just in terms of people dying or becoming ill: if you could manage to take vaccines out of the arms of healthy 45 year old people in Britain and into the arms of 75 year old people in Spain, wouldn't you actually be saving lives?

    (without starting a vaccine war...)
    You would. But there are literally hundreds of millions of people more deserving in the world on that basis. Why should we be surrendering vaccines for a first world country that has screwed up their own vaccine programme even though they could well afford it when instead we could be sending it to equally at risk people in poorer countries who have no chance of being able to get the vaccine for months or even years.

    This is where the 'moral' argument falls down. If you wish to pursue that line of thinking then those who would receive the vaccine instead are no more in need or deserving of it than those hundreds of millions of others. Take to its logical conclusion the EU and the UK should stop jabbing their own people now and start sending all their vaccines overseas. (I am not advocating this just showing the logical failing of the argument being used)
    I think the best thing we can do for the rest of the world at the moment is to show the benefit of having a full and comprehensive vaccine rollout, using mainly the AZ vaccine. Sometimes selfishness can lead to better outcomes and this will be an example of that
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Genuine question: what right does Prince Harry have to work in the USA? Does he have a right to work by virtue of being married to an American? Does he need a visa?

    I've always been curious.

    It's a non-job.
    Not at all. It’s very important.

    He’s not just making oodles of money giving speeches to investment bankers and documentaries for Netflix.

    He’s working for a *mental health* company

    He’s not such a bad guy giving up his valuable time like that...
    What does this company actually do? I have an interest in mental health provision because I have personal experience of what it does to people and their families.

    Lots of people talk about it. It has become really quite fashionable to do so. Actual practical help is rather thin on the ground, especially afterwards. Try getting a job from companies after explaining that your patchy CV is because of mental health illness and you will find that their interest in better mental health vanishes as fast as snow in summer.

    If he is going to do something practical to help with that, good on him. If it's just another talking shop or another forum for him to talk about himself, not so good.

    A form of a career / personal coaching, apparently.

    I would suspect that such a role is what he wants to make of it - either be a figurehead or get actually involved.

    The Goldmans garbage the other day is an example of macho stupidity about work/life balance. Which really needs to change in the US.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    On the subject of mental health, I once got "let go" from a company due to my mental health.

    I had been working there for a few months, and I suddenly had a very bad mental health episode. Prior to then I had heaps of praise raining down upon me about being the benchmark for new starters, etc, but 1 week after I told my manager I was having a few issues I was let go.

    I'm still bitter about it to this day.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Chameleon said:

    So I see that the EU is seeking to seize vaccines paid for by the UK/US destined for third world countries.

    Have Dave/Roger been along to explain why this makes the EU the good guys? Because from my view this is completely indefensible.

    In their defence... they had no idea what they were doing.

    Ok, that's the best I can do.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Oh look -

    "The Committee on Standards in Public Life (CSPL) advises the Prime Minister on ethical standards across the whole of public life. It monitors and reports on issues relating to arrangements for upholding the standards of conduct of all public office holders.

    The Prime Minister is seeking independent members to join the Committee for a five year term.

    We are looking for high calibre individuals with a real interest in ethical standards and commitment to the principles of public life, who could make a strong contribution to the important work of this Committee."

    Is this what is known as performative art by the PM? A sort of elaborate joke on us all, the joke being that there is absolutely no point giving such advice because neither the PM nor anyone in his government will follow it?

    Go on. You know you want to... ;)
    CIPSL suddenly becomes Judge Judy...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,994
    edited March 2021
    Scott_xP said:
    Are these the same people who were behind resignsturegon?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Looking at images of that stuck ship, and diagrams of the canal, it’s very, *very* stuck indeed.

    It’s also an awful lot bigger than you think it is - it’s 400m long and 57m wide, weighs 220,000 tonnes, one of the largest vessels afloat.

    They’re going to have to dredge plenty of canal out of the way, and probably take off hundreds of containers.

    My prediction - 10 days to clear it, about the same time as the shipping diversion around Africa. Time to fill up your car with petrol.

    I'd be worried about the ones that have come 120 miles from the other end and now have to reverse...
    They travel in convoys and can’t turn around in the width of the canal, so would probably need to be backed out by tugs, one at a time.

    The accident is at the worst possible point in the whole system, travelling northbound close to Suez city in the south of the canal. There’s no way around the blockage, so all rescue equipment needs to come from the north down the whole canal, unless they first back out all the vessels behind it to the south.

    The canal doesn’t have a completely flat bottom, it’s sloped at both sides with a relatively small lane of full depth in the centre. It’s likely grounded on both bow and stern, with the bow embedded some 30m into the side of the bank. It’s probably damaged sufficiently at the bow to be taking on water, which won’t help it float.

    Possibly the only way they drag it out, is by using the similarly large ship behind, many tug boats and a lot of very large cables. Once it’s floating, they need to patch it up and move it out of the canal for repairs.

    I guess this is why shipping insurance is more expensive than you think it should be!
    And presumably it has a bulbous bow too.
    Yep! There’s a lot of bow in the canal side wall.
    https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1374597391463120896
    Bulbous bows always remind me of

    image

    though this one is also..... special

    image
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    And yet again you have the EU nutters swirling around conspiracy theories and actively damaging both vaccine programs and international relations.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Genuine question: what right does Prince Harry have to work in the USA? Does he have a right to work by virtue of being married to an American? Does he need a visa?

    I've always been curious.

    It's a non-job.
    Not at all. It’s very important.

    He’s not just making oodles of money giving speeches to investment bankers and documentaries for Netflix.

    He’s working for a *mental health* company

    He’s not such a bad guy giving up his valuable time like that...
    What does this company actually do? I have an interest in mental health provision because I have personal experience of what it does to people and their families.

    Lots of people talk about it. It has become really quite fashionable to do so. Actual practical help is rather thin on the ground, especially afterwards. Try getting a job from companies after explaining that your patchy CV is because of mental health illness and you will find that their interest in better mental health vanishes as fast as snow in summer.

    If he is going to do something practical to help with that, good on him. If it's just another talking shop or another forum for him to talk about himself, not so good.

    A form of a career / personal coaching, apparently.

    I would suspect that such a role is what he wants to make of it - either be a figurehead or get actually involved.

    The Goldmans garbage the other day is an example of macho stupidity about work/life balance. Which really needs to change in the US.
    It’s apparently some sort of coaching “app”, but based on the Uber model of not actually employing any coaches, rather treating them as contractors and paying them poorly. They’re very much a startup, with not many people working there but a whole pile of VC money behind them.

    I suspect a lot more scrutiny will come their way in the near future.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    RobD said:

    kamski said:

    Floater said:

    RobD said:

    So not only stealing from the UK, but also stealing from the less well-off in a pathetic attempt to hide their own failures. Sick.
    They need to be publicly shamed by the world community
    Has anyone actually stolen any vaccines from Covax?
    The Italians seem keen on seizing them.
    Do they? I saw that La Stampa claimed 29 million "hidden" doses had been "found", but most of that story seems to be entirely inaccurate.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,210
    Scott_xP said:
    Especially not without power.
    Might not want to follow through too far with the implications of that...
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,548
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "But there is a group of people who have actually become happier in the past 12 months and they aren’t the super-rich sunbathing in the Maldives. According to research published today by the Policy Institute at King’s College London (KCL) and Ipsos Mori, one in five believe their lives have improved since last March and they feel more content, while 54 per cent say they will miss some aspects of the Covid-19 restrictions."

    [£]

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-truth-is-many-of-us-have-loved-lockdown-kc30kfgms

    Yep I am very much in that group. There are aspects I have disliked and I will look forward to the restrictions being lifted so I can see friends and family again but on the whole I have seen a massive improvement in quality of life during lockdown.
    Why?
    The ability to work entirely from home instead of having to make regular trips overseas or to Aberdeen.
    As a result I have actually been able to do more work for more clients but with more free time.
    The massive improvement in my sons' education and his mental state.
    The reduction in extraneous and unimportant stuff that filled my life before.
    The massive improvement in noise and air pollution - particularly in the first lockdown but also, until schools went back, in this most recent version.
    I have been able to do a lot more study, a lot more reading and a huge amount of increase in time spent out of doors.
    Both my diet and my fitness have improved hugely.

    There have been downsides and I will not miss some aspects of lockdown but overall it has been a huge benefit to me and probably added years to my life.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355

    The most astonishing thing about the Italian vaccine 'hoard' story is that anyone, let alone journalists and politicians, would be so caught up in conspiracy theories that they'd believe that AZ would deliberately be sitting on 29 million doses. I mean, does it not occur to these people to ask themselves what conceivable motive AZ would have to do that?

    Especially since the EU contract is, I understand, payment on delivery.

    So if the said 29 million doses exist and are not destined for COVAX etc, then the company is deliberately not getting money for them.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870
    "Greed, for lack of a better word, is good!"
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428

    On the subject of mental health, I once got "let go" from a company due to my mental health.

    I had been working there for a few months, and I suddenly had a very bad mental health episode. Prior to then I had heaps of praise raining down upon me about being the benchmark for new starters, etc, but 1 week after I told my manager I was having a few issues I was let go.

    I'm still bitter about it to this day.

    Sorry to hear that and it was their loss ultimately.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227
    edited March 2021
    Friend Manfred Weber about to have a walking-into-lampost problem, maybe.

    https://twitter.com/ManfredWeber/status/1374657923306172419
    Ooer:

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1374674872719278081
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,692
    kamski said:

    Floater said:

    RobD said:

    So not only stealing from the UK, but also stealing from the less well-off in a pathetic attempt to hide their own failures. Sick.
    They need to be publicly shamed by the world community
    Has anyone actually stolen any vaccines from Covax?
    In effect that's what the EPP leader is calling for.
    https://twitter.com/ManfredWeber/status/1374657923306172419
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    kamski said:

    RobD said:

    kamski said:

    Floater said:

    RobD said:

    So not only stealing from the UK, but also stealing from the less well-off in a pathetic attempt to hide their own failures. Sick.
    They need to be publicly shamed by the world community
    Has anyone actually stolen any vaccines from Covax?
    The Italians seem keen on seizing them.
    Do they? I saw that La Stampa claimed 29 million "hidden" doses had been "found", but most of that story seems to be entirely inaccurate.
    Their keenness on seizing them doesn't seem to be inaccurate. Otherwise why are they making a giant fuss about it?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Apologies if already linked to: https://twitter.com/SpesScotorum/status/1374669633505087490

    The judgment is not on the Scotcourts website yet but Lord Braid has apparently held that the closing of churches was a disproportionate breach of article 9 of ECHR.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    isam said:
    It boggles my mind that Henry Kissinger is still with us. It feels like as if Neville Chamberlain were still alive and kicking and occasionally gets asked his opinion of world events.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    I do, though, feel that the outside activity relaxation could well be brought forwards. The indications are very strong that outside activity is far far lower risk (not zero risk, but considerably lower).

    It could also help with holding on for the rest of the roadmap.

    The proportion of ICU patients outside of Groups 1-4 and 5-9 is still very significant.
    Around 15-20% of ICU patients admitted throughout have been outside the Groups 1-9, and about 50-65% were in Groups 5-9 (only part of whom have been one-dose vaccinated) (varying over time)

    Suppose we relax fully and the reduction in hospitalisation levels is 85% for the vaccinated.

    Out of every 100 people admitted to ICU prior to vaccination, we'd expect:

    NOW (half of Groups 5-9 vaccinated)
    Unvaccinated: 20
    Groups 5-9: 28.75
    Groups 1-4: 4.75
    Total: 54

    Call it 50%. That buys us one doubling.

    Wait until about 4 weeks from now and assume that Groups 5-9 will be done and have developed immunity and most of Groups 1-4 will have been double-dosed and further improved on protection. Some of the outside-Groups-1-9 will have been done as well):
    Unvaccinated: 18
    Groups 5-9: 7.5
    Groups 1-4: ~2
    Total: 28
    That buys us nearly two doublings.

    The R number can spring up FAST and is not comparable with last June. Not only are we less outdoorsy in April than in June, we have a variant that's far more transmissible.

    There are plenty of people that can fill the ICUs. We ramped up fast in December even with Tier 3 and Tier 4 in plenty of places; reducing to below that would see a big potential springing up.

    Maybe we'd be lucky. Or maybe we'd need to lock down yet again. How about we relax outdoors stuff a bit early and otherwise stick to the roadmap instead?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Looking at images of that stuck ship, and diagrams of the canal, it’s very, *very* stuck indeed.

    It’s also an awful lot bigger than you think it is - it’s 400m long and 57m wide, weighs 220,000 tonnes, one of the largest vessels afloat.

    They’re going to have to dredge plenty of canal out of the way, and probably take off hundreds of containers.

    My prediction - 10 days to clear it, about the same time as the shipping diversion around Africa. Time to fill up your car with petrol.

    I'd be worried about the ones that have come 120 miles from the other end and now have to reverse...
    They travel in convoys and can’t turn around in the width of the canal, so would probably need to be backed out by tugs, one at a time.

    The accident is at the worst possible point in the whole system, travelling northbound close to Suez city in the south of the canal. There’s no way around the blockage, so all rescue equipment needs to come from the north down the whole canal, unless they first back out all the vessels behind it to the south.

    The canal doesn’t have a completely flat bottom, it’s sloped at both sides with a relatively small lane of full depth in the centre. It’s likely grounded on both bow and stern, with the bow embedded some 30m into the side of the bank. It’s probably damaged sufficiently at the bow to be taking on water, which won’t help it float.

    Possibly the only way they drag it out, is by using the similarly large ship behind, many tug boats and a lot of very large cables. Once it’s floating, they need to patch it up and move it out of the canal for repairs.

    I guess this is why shipping insurance is more expensive than you think it should be!
    And presumably it has a bulbous bow too.
    Yep! There’s a lot of bow in the canal side wall.
    https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1374597391463120896
    Bulbous bows always remind me of

    image

    though this one is also..... special

    image
    Actually, Polyphemus's bow wasn't that bulbous:

    image
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    DavidL said:

    Apologies if already linked to: https://twitter.com/SpesScotorum/status/1374669633505087490

    The judgment is not on the Scotcourts website yet but Lord Braid has apparently held that the closing of churches was a disproportionate breach of article 9 of ECHR.

    Surely you're not a supporter of judicial review interfering with the policy of a democratically elected government, @DavidL ? ;)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe

    The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,210
    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Genuine question: what right does Prince Harry have to work in the USA? Does he have a right to work by virtue of being married to an American? Does he need a visa?

    I've always been curious.

    It's a non-job.
    Not at all. It’s very important.

    He’s not just making oodles of money giving speeches to investment bankers and documentaries for Netflix.

    He’s working for a *mental health* company

    He’s not such a bad guy giving up his valuable time like that...
    What does this company actually do? I have an interest in mental health provision because I have personal experience of what it does to people and their families.

    Lots of people talk about it. It has become really quite fashionable to do so. Actual practical help is rather thin on the ground, especially afterwards. Try getting a job from companies after explaining that your patchy CV is because of mental health illness and you will find that their interest in better mental health vanishes as fast as snow in summer.

    If he is going to do something practical to help with that, good on him. If it's just another talking shop or another forum for him to talk about himself, not so good.

    Some kind of brand ambassador, I think.
    This is the company; make of it what you will...
    https://www.betterup.com/en-us/about-us/news-and-press/betterup-raises-125-million-series-d-achieves-173-billion-valuation-and-expands-coaching-platform-with-betterup-care
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,870


    Actually, Polyphemus's bow wasn't that bulbous:

    image

    See?
    image
  • Leon said:

    We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe

    The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.

    I expect the WHO and WTO will condemn the EU as well
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    rpjs said:

    isam said:
    It boggles my mind that Henry Kissinger is still with us. It feels like as if Neville Chamberlain were still alive and kicking and occasionally gets asked his opinion of world events.
    He's still going strong at 97.

    Jimmy Carter is still with us too, a sprightly 96.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355
    edited March 2021

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Looking at images of that stuck ship, and diagrams of the canal, it’s very, *very* stuck indeed.

    It’s also an awful lot bigger than you think it is - it’s 400m long and 57m wide, weighs 220,000 tonnes, one of the largest vessels afloat.

    They’re going to have to dredge plenty of canal out of the way, and probably take off hundreds of containers.

    My prediction - 10 days to clear it, about the same time as the shipping diversion around Africa. Time to fill up your car with petrol.

    I'd be worried about the ones that have come 120 miles from the other end and now have to reverse...
    They travel in convoys and can’t turn around in the width of the canal, so would probably need to be backed out by tugs, one at a time.

    The accident is at the worst possible point in the whole system, travelling northbound close to Suez city in the south of the canal. There’s no way around the blockage, so all rescue equipment needs to come from the north down the whole canal, unless they first back out all the vessels behind it to the south.

    The canal doesn’t have a completely flat bottom, it’s sloped at both sides with a relatively small lane of full depth in the centre. It’s likely grounded on both bow and stern, with the bow embedded some 30m into the side of the bank. It’s probably damaged sufficiently at the bow to be taking on water, which won’t help it float.

    Possibly the only way they drag it out, is by using the similarly large ship behind, many tug boats and a lot of very large cables. Once it’s floating, they need to patch it up and move it out of the canal for repairs.

    I guess this is why shipping insurance is more expensive than you think it should be!
    And presumably it has a bulbous bow too.
    Yep! There’s a lot of bow in the canal side wall.
    https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1374597391463120896
    Bulbous bows always remind me of

    image

    though this one is also..... special

    image
    Actually, Polyphemus's bow wasn't that bulbous:

    image
    When William Froude ran the various models through his tank, the effect of the bow was quite noticeable. Which was the reason that design was chosen. Fastest warship in the world, briefly, IIRC.

    The bow bulb *was* comparatively small by modern standards.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,355

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Looking at images of that stuck ship, and diagrams of the canal, it’s very, *very* stuck indeed.

    It’s also an awful lot bigger than you think it is - it’s 400m long and 57m wide, weighs 220,000 tonnes, one of the largest vessels afloat.

    They’re going to have to dredge plenty of canal out of the way, and probably take off hundreds of containers.

    My prediction - 10 days to clear it, about the same time as the shipping diversion around Africa. Time to fill up your car with petrol.

    I'd be worried about the ones that have come 120 miles from the other end and now have to reverse...
    They travel in convoys and can’t turn around in the width of the canal, so would probably need to be backed out by tugs, one at a time.

    The accident is at the worst possible point in the whole system, travelling northbound close to Suez city in the south of the canal. There’s no way around the blockage, so all rescue equipment needs to come from the north down the whole canal, unless they first back out all the vessels behind it to the south.

    The canal doesn’t have a completely flat bottom, it’s sloped at both sides with a relatively small lane of full depth in the centre. It’s likely grounded on both bow and stern, with the bow embedded some 30m into the side of the bank. It’s probably damaged sufficiently at the bow to be taking on water, which won’t help it float.

    Possibly the only way they drag it out, is by using the similarly large ship behind, many tug boats and a lot of very large cables. Once it’s floating, they need to patch it up and move it out of the canal for repairs.

    I guess this is why shipping insurance is more expensive than you think it should be!
    And presumably it has a bulbous bow too.
    Yep! There’s a lot of bow in the canal side wall.
    https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1374597391463120896
    Bulbous bows always remind me of

    image

    though this one is also..... special

    image
    Actually, Polyphemus's bow wasn't that bulbous:

    image
    When William Froude ran the various models through his tank, the effect of the bow was quite noticeable. Which was the reason that design was chosen. Fastest warship in the world, briefly, IIRC.

    The bow bulb *was* comparatively small by modern standards.
    EDIT - that is one of the early concept drawings, incidentally, I think. By the time she was built, she acquired proper upper works. And I think the float-off life rafts were deleted....
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    Leon said:

    We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe

    The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.

    Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?

    Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.

    Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Looking at images of that stuck ship, and diagrams of the canal, it’s very, *very* stuck indeed.

    It’s also an awful lot bigger than you think it is - it’s 400m long and 57m wide, weighs 220,000 tonnes, one of the largest vessels afloat.

    They’re going to have to dredge plenty of canal out of the way, and probably take off hundreds of containers.

    My prediction - 10 days to clear it, about the same time as the shipping diversion around Africa. Time to fill up your car with petrol.

    I'd be worried about the ones that have come 120 miles from the other end and now have to reverse...
    They travel in convoys and can’t turn around in the width of the canal, so would probably need to be backed out by tugs, one at a time.

    The accident is at the worst possible point in the whole system, travelling northbound close to Suez city in the south of the canal. There’s no way around the blockage, so all rescue equipment needs to come from the north down the whole canal, unless they first back out all the vessels behind it to the south.

    The canal doesn’t have a completely flat bottom, it’s sloped at both sides with a relatively small lane of full depth in the centre. It’s likely grounded on both bow and stern, with the bow embedded some 30m into the side of the bank. It’s probably damaged sufficiently at the bow to be taking on water, which won’t help it float.

    Possibly the only way they drag it out, is by using the similarly large ship behind, many tug boats and a lot of very large cables. Once it’s floating, they need to patch it up and move it out of the canal for repairs.

    I guess this is why shipping insurance is more expensive than you think it should be!
    And presumably it has a bulbous bow too.
    Yep! There’s a lot of bow in the canal side wall.
    https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1374597391463120896
    At least the bow is smoother than if it was a Quinquereme from Ninevah with a ram.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,532

    On the subject of mental health, I once got "let go" from a company due to my mental health.

    I had been working there for a few months, and I suddenly had a very bad mental health episode. Prior to then I had heaps of praise raining down upon me about being the benchmark for new starters, etc, but 1 week after I told my manager I was having a few issues I was let go.

    I'm still bitter about it to this day.

    Sorry to hear that and it was their loss ultimately.
    Very much so - good employers recognise that everyone falls ill with something sometimes, and look beyond that.

    I've mixed experiences. My current employer is excellent on the issue - people are allowed off on full pay for lengthy periods while they recover from mental or physical health problems. On the other hand, my wife was fired as a senior editor from a publishing company because she had a bout of depression. A difference was that she was technically employed as a consultant (though she'd been there for years).
  • Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Looking at images of that stuck ship, and diagrams of the canal, it’s very, *very* stuck indeed.

    It’s also an awful lot bigger than you think it is - it’s 400m long and 57m wide, weighs 220,000 tonnes, one of the largest vessels afloat.

    They’re going to have to dredge plenty of canal out of the way, and probably take off hundreds of containers.

    My prediction - 10 days to clear it, about the same time as the shipping diversion around Africa. Time to fill up your car with petrol.

    I'd be worried about the ones that have come 120 miles from the other end and now have to reverse...
    They travel in convoys and can’t turn around in the width of the canal, so would probably need to be backed out by tugs, one at a time.

    The accident is at the worst possible point in the whole system, travelling northbound close to Suez city in the south of the canal. There’s no way around the blockage, so all rescue equipment needs to come from the north down the whole canal, unless they first back out all the vessels behind it to the south.

    The canal doesn’t have a completely flat bottom, it’s sloped at both sides with a relatively small lane of full depth in the centre. It’s likely grounded on both bow and stern, with the bow embedded some 30m into the side of the bank. It’s probably damaged sufficiently at the bow to be taking on water, which won’t help it float.

    Possibly the only way they drag it out, is by using the similarly large ship behind, many tug boats and a lot of very large cables. Once it’s floating, they need to patch it up and move it out of the canal for repairs.

    I guess this is why shipping insurance is more expensive than you think it should be!
    And presumably it has a bulbous bow too.
    Yep! There’s a lot of bow in the canal side wall.
    https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1374597391463120896
    Would getting a second teeny-tiny digger help?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    edited March 2021

    Leon said:

    We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe

    The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.

    Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?

    Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.

    Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
    Who needs to be combated more. The idiots running Europe, or some commentators on PB? A tough one.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited March 2021

    The most astonishing thing about the Italian vaccine 'hoard' story is that anyone, let alone journalists and politicians, would be so caught up in conspiracy theories that they'd believe that AZ would deliberately be sitting on 29 million doses. I mean, does it not occur to these people to ask themselves what conceivable motive AZ would have to do that?

    And they are being sold to poor countries not-for-profit. Unlike any other vaccines

    Perhaps Manfred Weber would like to fly to Mexico, visit a hospital in Veracruz, so he can explain to a gasping pensioner that she is about to die in agony because the vaccine her government paid for, at cost, which was developed in the UK with British taxpayer money, has instead been seized in Italy, so that the EU and its governments do not have to admit the embarrassing truth. That is why you are dying, senora.

    Lo siento

    Then maybe he could detach the ventilator from her mouth, and watch.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    MattW said:
    Sideshow Bob explains EU vaccine strategy to date:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRq1Ksh-32g
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,548

    kamski said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Of course they can explain. It's just they don't want to because the answer would be embarrassing for them. So they're going to try and harm the population of another country to cover up their embarrassment, even if that results in some of those people dying or becoming ill.

    It is shameful and indefensible.
    It may be shameful and indefensible, but just in terms of people dying or becoming ill: if you could manage to take vaccines out of the arms of healthy 45 year old people in Britain and into the arms of 75 year old people in Spain, wouldn't you actually be saving lives?

    (without starting a vaccine war...)
    You would. But there are literally hundreds of millions of people more deserving in the world on that basis. Why should we be surrendering vaccines for a first world country that has screwed up their own vaccine programme even though they could well afford it when instead we could be sending it to equally at risk people in poorer countries who have no chance of being able to get the vaccine for months or even years.

    This is where the 'moral' argument falls down. If you wish to pursue that line of thinking then those who would receive the vaccine instead are no more in need or deserving of it than those hundreds of millions of others. Take to its logical conclusion the EU and the UK should stop jabbing their own people now and start sending all their vaccines overseas. (I am not advocating this just showing the logical failing of the argument being used)
    I think the best thing we can do for the rest of the world at the moment is to show the benefit of having a full and comprehensive vaccine rollout, using mainly the AZ vaccine. Sometimes selfishness can lead to better outcomes and this will be an example of that
    Yep I think you are right. But I do think that once that is done we should be looking at a serious investment in third world vaccination well above what we are already doing. That is not to play down what we have done so far but there is a moral, an economic and a practical argument - unassailable in my view - for helping all those countries who are struggling to overcome this virus.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Wow

    The fact the European Union (EU) are stockpiling millions of doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine should not stop the jab manufacturer delivering supply to the bloc, a Belgian MEP has said.

    Philippe Lamberts conceded that the EU do have doses at their disposal, but this should not "exonerate" the company that produces the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine from their delivery commitments.

    He said: "Frankly speaking, we are not in this position because of the British Government or because of the European Commission.

    "We are in this position because of the inability to fulfil promises of a vaccine manufacturer - in this case AstraZeneca."

    Riiiiight
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe

    The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.

    Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?

    Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.

    Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
    The sane, calm, coolly logical position is hatred of the EU and its member governments, right now. With their cretinous, lunatic smearing of the AZ vaccine they have already killed many people, their new proposals will kill many more. Even as they sit on unused doses of the same vaccine. Unused because of their own stupidity.

    I don’t know about you but I hate stupid, self-serving institutions that willfully kill lots of people
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Looking at images of that stuck ship, and diagrams of the canal, it’s very, *very* stuck indeed.

    It’s also an awful lot bigger than you think it is - it’s 400m long and 57m wide, weighs 220,000 tonnes, one of the largest vessels afloat.

    They’re going to have to dredge plenty of canal out of the way, and probably take off hundreds of containers.

    My prediction - 10 days to clear it, about the same time as the shipping diversion around Africa. Time to fill up your car with petrol.

    What I don’t understand is how Captain Frank Spencer did it? I’ve never skippered a supertanker myself but it feels like at a certain point in the turn you’d think “hmmm, maybe not, I’ll never clear that”.
    It sounds like they had a power failure, rather than were trying to turn around. Vessels in canals and ports also have a local “Pilot” on board, who’s in charge of the vessel through their stretch of water.
    There are varying accounts.

    I stand by my @Dura_Ace theory.
    I went through the Suez on Lusty in the late 90s. The Admiralty made us go through in the dark so nobody would know we were there - OF7 level strategic thinking. I did not take the helm! I never got to make the reverse passage as I was removed from the ship at Bahrain.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe

    The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.

    Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?

    Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.

    Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
    Who needs to be combated more. The idiots running Europe, or some commentators on PB? A tough one.
    Yes, I get that many of us spout off angry and occasionally ill informed rhetoric, but we're political wonks on a website, that's ok. Our government, uncharacteristically but happily, has been more even tempered.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited March 2021
    Delete
  • MalcolmDunnMalcolmDunn Posts: 139
    Who would be a remainer now?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Leon said:

    We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe

    The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.

    Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?

    Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.

    Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
    When the EU are impounding vaccines bought and paid for by Covax to aid the third world during the pandemic and you are rushing out to condemn those criticising the EU then you have rather misplaced your moral compass.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Looking at images of that stuck ship, and diagrams of the canal, it’s very, *very* stuck indeed.

    It’s also an awful lot bigger than you think it is - it’s 400m long and 57m wide, weighs 220,000 tonnes, one of the largest vessels afloat.

    They’re going to have to dredge plenty of canal out of the way, and probably take off hundreds of containers.

    My prediction - 10 days to clear it, about the same time as the shipping diversion around Africa. Time to fill up your car with petrol.

    What I don’t understand is how Captain Frank Spencer did it? I’ve never skippered a supertanker myself but it feels like at a certain point in the turn you’d think “hmmm, maybe not, I’ll never clear that”.
    It sounds like they had a power failure, rather than were trying to turn around. Vessels in canals and ports also have a local “Pilot” on board, who’s in charge of the vessel through their stretch of water.
    There are varying accounts.

    I stand by my @Dura_Ace theory.
    I went through the Suez on Lusty in the late 90s. The Admiralty made us go through in the dark so nobody would know we were there - OF7 level strategic thinking. I did not take the helm! I never got to make the reverse passage as I was removed from the ship at Bahrain.
    :D:D

    Were you voluntarily removed from the ship?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    edited March 2021
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Leon said:

    We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe

    The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.

    Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?

    Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.

    Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
    Who needs to be combated more. The idiots running Europe, or some commentators on PB? A tough one.
    Yes, I get that many of us spout off angry and occasionally ill informed rhetoric, but we're political wonks on a website, that's ok. Our government, uncharacteristically but happily, has been more even tempered.
    Crikey, am I also a wonk? I've always wanted to be a wonk.

    Edit: what is a wonk?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Who would be a remainer now?

    Scott P?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Floater said:
    A bit of a omnishambles given grocers would have ordered all their fresh stuff, and now it's going to be wasted.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    This was foreseen - there is the gap between getting the most at risk groups vaccinated and getting to herd immunity levels.

    We are at 40%+ of all people having one vaccination.

    Israel is at 60%+ - which is at the lower bounds of herd immunity effect.

    In this gap, people are already saying "Isn't it over yet?"

    No, it isn't. Hence the roadmap.

    Add in those who have immunity through infection and it will be 60%+.

    Not to mention that the people who have been vaccinated are those most at risk.
    Indeed.

    Israel lifted lockdown on 7/2. They weren't at 60% vaccinated by 7/2 by a long shot. Especially since they were double-dosing the vulnerable.

    We've vaccinated as many people as Israel had by then.
    We've given ONE dose, not two.
    The effect of one dose brings down hospitalisations a long way (but not as far as two doses) and retards transmission and infection to an extent - but nowhere near as much as two doses.

    The double-dosing may be the key to retarding R.


    Is that data making the mistake of including single doses where people received the vaccine within the last three weeks? Ie when its not effective yet.

    The data out now from PHE and the Scottish equivalent is that a single dose reduces the risk of hospitalisation and death by 85%. The idea the bulk of the protection comes from the second dose is absolutely for the birds.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe

    The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.

    Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?

    Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.

    Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
    When the EU are impounding vaccines bought and paid for by Covax to aid the third world during the pandemic and you are rushing out to condemn those criticising the EU then you have rather misplaced your moral compass.
    I do feel a certain sympathy for ardent Remainers right now. The cognitive dissonance must be like a 200 decibel klaxon constantly shrieking, a metre away. Agonizing.

    Like a true believer seeing the feet of clay. Like cultists being deprogrammed. The process - I’m serious here - is known to cause great mental pain
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    We have to retaliate hard. And we need to get the rest of the world with us. Starting with Canada and Mexico seems a good place. Then the entire 3rd World (Covax). Then a call to Uncle Joe

    The EU is finally revealed for what it is, a blundering, hypocritical, venal, mendacious, anti-democratic racket, staffed by no-marks and imbeciles, at the service of selfish liars.

    Your obsessive view on the EU not just tainted just a little by a bit of xenophobia perhaps? Read too many war comics as a kid?

    Let us hope it is all deescalated and sanity prevails and people like "Leon" don't whip up more hatred and division. The EU Commission is being very dumb, but the hatred spewed by some Brexit obsessives (not all of you I hasten to add) needs to be combatted as much as the idiots on the other side of the channel.

    Cool heads are needed, not hot ones. Most of this is posturing no doubt.
    The sane, calm, coolly logical position is hatred of the EU and its member governments, right now. With their cretinous, lunatic smearing of the AZ vaccine they have already killed many people, their new proposals will kill many more. Even as they sit on unused doses of the same vaccine. Unused because of their own stupidity.

    I don’t know about you but I hate stupid, self-serving institutions that willfully kill lots of people
    Let me let you into a secret, that may have eluded you. Our government, and previous governments that have purported to represent us, have done some very very dumb things, but occasionally it does some good ones. So do other governments and so does the EU. The EU Commission is currently in panic mode. Eventually it will calm down. Much of this is rhetoric to cover up bad decisions, which is exactly what our government does. Quelle surprise!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,081
    edited March 2021
    Floater said:
    After the initial reaction last March, Germany have made idiotic decision after idiotic decision.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    I am truely amazed how the EU and the EU countries are doing this.

    Making a mistake is one thing, continuing time after time to cock it up is another, and not learning from any mistakes.

    It's a bit like a job I'm working on. I got given a document riddled with errors. I pointed them out. It comes back with even more errors and the errors not all removed.

    You really have to lose faith at a point they have any competency.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227

    It would appear that the UK government is better informed about vaccine production in Italy than the Italian press (& government?)
    Hasn't this been the case since Ultra?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Talking up his share price. Looks like a candidate to short to me.....
This discussion has been closed.