Johnson’s vaccine polling boost seems to be dissipating – politicalbetting.com
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Won on the technicality that the witness statements have been lost so it's impossible to know what happened on the day.squareroot2 said:
I am sure Keir Starmer ensured justice was done when he was DPPTheuniondivvie said:Speak out against the state’s prejudiced prosecution of militant industrial action? Bit too controversial I’m afraid, might piss off the red tops.
50 years ago you say?
Hard work already done you say?
That funny bloke off The Royle Family you say?
Let’s go for it!
https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1374374378738130956?s=210 -
Just the local Hunt then?MikeSmithson said:
I would ban all dogs kept as pets.Pulpstar said:
Politics for all has put amusing embellishments into other tweets too - the picture of the Beirut explosion into the "Bomb Bristol" story for instance.MattW said:
Someone stirring.Dura_Ace said:Pulpstar said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1374484531516862483
Reaper drones to patrol the beaches !
Reapers don't conform to STANAG 4671 so they cannot be operated in civvie airspace. They are also based in Akrotiri so it's a bit of a long transit to get on station over Bournemouth.
MQ-9B Protector can but they aren't arriving until 2023.
That drone photo is not in the newspaper story.
Named and shamed. Quite right too.CarlottaVance said:So not some chav then:
https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1374632851153489924?s=20
Dogs are great pets. They are great members of the family. The problem is when they have stupid, entitled owners who take them off the lead and can't run as fast as their dog when it has spotted something/someone "interesting". Which is all of us.
You should have to pass a pooch proficiency test before you can own one.0 -
In the end, yes. But my take is that AZ are playing the long game. When this is over they will be a major player in a new market for them.rottenborough said:
It is not from the benevolence of the vaccine manufacturer that we expect to be saved, but from their regard to their own shareholders?geoffw said:
It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.rottenborough said:Seems a good dose of Adam Smith is required this morning.
Perhaps the PM could read out a chapter or two?
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It may be sad, but Boris knows everything he says will be seized upon.Philip_Thompson said:
It is the truth though.Luckyguy1983 said:
It isn't the philosophical truth of the statement that I object to - 'capitalism' was fine, even 'profit motive' would have been fine. He had to make it that bit fruitier and be terribly amusing and say 'greed', though heaven knows it's hardly an original point. If it wasn't a blunder he wouldn't have withdrawn it immediately and they wouldn't now be spinning about it referring to a cheese and pickle sandwich.rottenborough said:Seems a good dose of Adam Smith is required this morning.
Perhaps the PM could read out a chapter or two?
Morning all!
It is sad that people telling the truth get attacked for doing so because the words are not deemed polite.0 -
Not really. There are two possible coalitions that are close to a majority, CDU-Green (48% in this poll, out of the 92% that would make it over the threshold to get seat) or Green-SPD-Left (44%). If necessary for a stable majority, the FDP would probably back CDU-Green, despite the fundamental Green/FDP difference of attitude to business. But a shift of a few points to either bloc would make majority government feasible without the FDP, and German politics doesn't produce many defections, so you can govern for years on a majority of 1. The far-right AfD remain on the margins with a slight decline over time, so are not in any of the calculations.Fishing said:
With sustained numbers like those, I wonder if German politics might turn Italian, with lots of unstable, ever-revolving but never-evolving governments held hostage by small parties or independents?CarlottaVance said:0 -
So why did he attempt to obfuscate the comment ?Philip_Thompson said:
If you choose to post a Tweet without comment it generally implies you're endorsing the comment.Theuniondivvie said:
I’ve just posted someone else’s tweet. Bit early to to be triggered into a caffeine-laden, saliva-flecked defence of BJ ain’t it?Philip_Thompson said:
Are you saying *shock horror* that he might have Conservative principles today that he had seven years ago.Theuniondivvie said:
Shocking, absolutely shocking that a Conservative Prime Minister might have Conservative principles.
You'd never see an SNP First Minister saying today that Scotland should be independent if she said that seven years ago would you? Because that would be repeating yourself in your eyes.
Why would a politician having the same principles they had seven years ago be something to criticise?0 -
CDU, AFD and FDP on 46%, same as Greens, SPD and Linke, Soder CSU Leader must now surely replace CDU leader Laschet as Union candidateCarlottaVance said:0 -
I think people don't realise quite how fragmented the health system is in Germany. If I call for an anbulance I'll get through to the fire service who'll decide to send an ambulance. That ambulance could be run by the German Red Cross, the Johanniters, the Maltesers or maybe someone else. They will take me to the nearest hospital in the city, which could be run by an organisation that's part of the catholic church, or the evangelical church, or the university, or some other organisation. Because the ambulance staff are very limited in what treatment they can do themselves it often happens that they decide a doctor is needed and they will call for a Notarzt who will then arrive in a Notarzt car.Foxy said:
I have said all along that the biggest problem in vaccination will be the distribution and delivery infrastructure. The NHS has a very good system for this, but much of the world has a more fragmented retail health sector.DavidL said:
And yet what we are seeing is a surge in vaccine right now which is expected to fall for up to a month in a couple of weeks time slowing down the program. Our peak day was over 850k but we are averaging something like 400k. We have the capacity to do more but we don't have the stocks.Philip_Thompson said:
Perhaps. But the UK's vaccine rollout after an initial exponential growth period has for months now trended at a remarkably flat line.DavidL said:
That chart is plain fantasy though. What we have all painfully learned is that vaccine supply is lumpy and inherently unpredictable. Suggesting that the EU will have a smooth 120m vaccines a month, month after month, suggests to me that whoever created it has no idea what they are talking about.kle4 said:
They shouldn't end up as far behind as currently feared. A focus on jabbing not jabbering would help with that.MattW said:Hmm. Crude maths in the chart, but interesting.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1373948397191888898
It may be lumpy but it may average at those amounts.
There are many things that are just baffling about the EU effort but one of them is the failure by Member States to use what they have, to create the capacity to get vaccines into arms efficiently. The EU is starting to point the finger about this which, although it will hardly improve relations, may well contain a significant element of truth. And that is before the idiocy in Italy where prosecutors are seizing vaccine.
My GP has her own practice, total staff 2: her and a receptionist. The practice is open Monday-Friday but only in the mornings, plus 2 afternoons a week. This is fairly typical. She is expecting to get 20 doses a week initially of the vaccine after Easter, yes it sounds pitiful but I'm not sure she could cope with many more. At least she can vaccinate herself and her receptionist, and check which of the most vulnerable people on her books haven't been vaccinated yet.
My wife works in the emergency department of a hospital that is run by an organisation that runs precisely one hospital (and a couple of care homes).
The dedicated vaccination centres are running pretty efficiently, but just don't have enough doses at the moment to do more. Hospitals, care homes, the police, and others are running their own vaccination programs, with varying degrees of efficiency.
I believe the unused doses you hear about in Germany are mainly reserved doses held back to guarantee people their second dose. With AZ they have clearly relaxed this rule to always keep a second dose for every first dose administered because they have basically not yet started the AZ second doses but have already administered a lot more than half the AZ doses delivered. With Moderna they have administered less then half the doses delivered so I guess still sticking strictly to keeping second doses back, but I'm not really sure.5 -
I was assured yesterday that such things are NOT open corruption. Of course! Its entirely normal for a 9 figure PPE contract to be awarded without tender to the landlord of the Health Secretary's local pub.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
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In terms of size, Britain is in the sour spot relative to the EU: too small to be an equal, too big to be a client; not powerful enough to assert its will in trade negotiations but hefty enough to cause trouble.
That is a blueprint for relations on a downward spiral, which neither side wants or knows how to avert. Johnson has called for a cooperative front against a third Covid wave. Many EU national leaders are not sold on the Commission’s threat of a vaccine export ban. Compromise on AstraZeneca is available. But in the longer term, the tensions are structural and hard to overcome when all reserves of trust are spent.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/24/trust-britain-covid-vaccine-compromise1 -
To sum up Ydoethur's statement, Johnson and Corbyn are the two cheeks of the same sorry arse.Roger said:
That is a post that will make no sense to anybody but will get applause from those who would wish it to be true.ydoethur said:
Well, quite. I mean it’s not like you had a leader from a posh background who pretends to be a friend to ordinary people, who makes racist remarks, who is lazy, disorganised and not very bright, and is a love rat famous for spending money he hasn’t got on things he doesn’t need.NickPalmer said:
I actually met a voter who said "They're all the same" in 2019 about Johnson and Corbyn! I said, "Honestly, what do we have to do to persuade you we're different??" She mumbled grumpily and closed the door.bigjohnowls said:
Our Canvassers have seen the return of "They're all the same" that disappeared in 2017 and 2019
That anyone would think Labour was the same as the Tories is just amazing.1 -
The missing category is "Mostly - but occasionally not, but only when there was really an extremely low/zero risk of transmitting Covid. Like 4 people who have spent months self-isolating/had both jabs weeks back, meeting outdoors, with a fire-pit between them...." As is not unknown in Devon.rottenborough said:1 -
I find this type of conversation astonishing. Why should it be a bad thing that the scientists get recognition, financial or otherwise? What is wrong with pharma companies making profits that go into all our pension and investment funds? It seems in some peoples eyes the only people that have any virtue are those working for the public sector and particularly the NHS.Malmesbury said:
I don't think you have to worry about the financial health of the scientists involved. They will all be nobly accepting all kinds of nominal positions at various companies. so that said companies can have their bio on their websites.Philip_Thompson said:
Scientists working for companies seeking to make a profit, yes. Again with the sole exception of Oxford/AZN.Jonathan said:
Strip out the scientists and see how you get on. This is primarily a triumph of science, then government logistics. Capitalism played a supporting role and has largely been suspended whilst governments expedite funding.Philip_Thompson said:
Yeah capitalism played no role, that's why state run institutions have produced the vaccine instead of companies. Oh no, wait, no that's not true.Jonathan said:
To attribute the vaccine to capitalism is wrong. First and foremost it was science, then it was the purchasing and logistical power of government to focus on an urgent goal, then somewhere down the line capitalism played a role along with Dolly Parton.SouthamObserver said:
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Capitalism produced all the western vaccines apart from arguably Oxford/AZN.
Pfizer, Moderna, J&J - these aren't nationalised institutions.
I may disappoint them to know that some of the greediest and self serving individuals I have ever come across in my working life are not in the private sector but work as hospital doctors, and I don't think GPs are much better.
This does not mean they are all like it before some of you start virtue signalling, just that there is a similar proportion of such people as there are in other walks of life. There are a number of doctors who want the very nice NHS consultants salary, their huge pensions, the private practice income and also claim ownership of patents that they develop while working for the NHS (though the latter practice has become harder for the hard pressed souls).
"Greed" whatever that is, is not confined to the private sector2 -
A Conservative Govt. colluding with an employers organisation to do down trade unionists.squareroot2 said:
I am sure Keir Starmer ensured justice was done when he was DPPTheuniondivvie said:Speak out against the state’s prejudiced prosecution of militant industrial action? Bit too controversial I’m afraid, might piss off the red tops.
50 years ago you say?
Hard work already done you say?
That funny bloke off The Royle Family you say?
Let’s go for it!
https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1374374378738130956?s=21
Who'd a thunk it!
I for one am very glad justice has at last been done.0 -
What is the appeal in owning a psychotic breed of dog that is a ticking time bomb? Every time one of these dogs mauls a seal or a baby its always "he was such a gentle animal" from the owner.CarlottaVance said:So not some chav then:
https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1374632851153489924?s=204 -
I'd be more put off by their backhanded corporate communications.geoffw said:As an investor I would be hesitant to buy AZ if I thought that benevolence characterised their business model. AIUI it was the Ox bit that insisted on the no-profit line. But they deserve full credit for agreeing that, at least for the duration.
As a drug developer, they have an excellent recent track record.0 -
He also knows that for some this adds to the picture of 'Good old Boris. Doesn't care. What a lad, eh?"Luckyguy1983 said:
It may be sad, but Boris knows everything he says will be seized upon.Philip_Thompson said:
It is the truth though.Luckyguy1983 said:
It isn't the philosophical truth of the statement that I object to - 'capitalism' was fine, even 'profit motive' would have been fine. He had to make it that bit fruitier and be terribly amusing and say 'greed', though heaven knows it's hardly an original point. If it wasn't a blunder he wouldn't have withdrawn it immediately and they wouldn't now be spinning about it referring to a cheese and pickle sandwich.rottenborough said:Seems a good dose of Adam Smith is required this morning.
Perhaps the PM could read out a chapter or two?
Morning all!
It is sad that people telling the truth get attacked for doing so because the words are not deemed polite.0 -
Is it the role of the CPS or DPP to drive Court of Appeal cases for the defendants...?squareroot2 said:
I am sure Keir Starmer ensured justice was done when he was DPPTheuniondivvie said:Speak out against the state’s prejudiced prosecution of militant industrial action? Bit too controversial I’m afraid, might piss off the red tops.
50 years ago you say?
Hard work already done you say?
That funny bloke off The Royle Family you say?
Let’s go for it!
https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1374374378738130956?s=210 -
Makes complete sense to me.Roger said:
...a post that will make no sense to anybody but will get applause from those who would wish it to be true.ydoethur said:
Well, quite. I mean it’s not like you had a leader from a posh background who pretends to be a friend to ordinary people, who makes racist remarks, who is lazy, disorganised and not very bright, and is a love rat famous for spending money he hasn’t got on things he doesn’t need.NickPalmer said:
I actually met a voter who said "They're all the same" in 2019 about Johnson and Corbyn! I said, "Honestly, what do we have to do to persuade you we're different??" She mumbled grumpily and closed the door.bigjohnowls said:
Our Canvassers have seen the return of "They're all the same" that disappeared in 2017 and 2019
That anyone would think Labour was the same as the Tories is just amazing.
Unless you're referring to your own post and not @ydoethur 's ?
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Tbf BJ telling the truth would be a bit of a shock to anyone, even some of the acolytes I dare say.Philip_Thompson said:
It is the truth though.Luckyguy1983 said:
It isn't the philosophical truth of the statement that I object to - 'capitalism' was fine, even 'profit motive' would have been fine. He had to make it that bit fruitier and be terribly amusing and say 'greed', though heaven knows it's hardly an original point. If it wasn't a blunder he wouldn't have withdrawn it immediately and they wouldn't now be spinning about it referring to a cheese and pickle sandwich.rottenborough said:Seems a good dose of Adam Smith is required this morning.
Perhaps the PM could read out a chapter or two?
Morning all!
It is sad that people telling the truth get attacked for doing so because the words are not deemed polite.0 -
Thinking about it, could CDU/CSU, SPD and FDP work if they get over 50% between them? It's the Greens that the FDP don't like, isn't it?1
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They have been reluctant to fan the flames in the face of irrational provocation from EU leaders. And in the one response I have seen in the Italian press Soriot comes over as capable and coherent.Nigelb said:
I'd be more put off by their backhanded corporate communications.geoffw said:As an investor I would be hesitant to buy AZ if I thought that benevolence characterised their business model. AIUI it was the Ox bit that insisted on the no-profit line. But they deserve full credit for agreeing that, at least for the duration.
As a drug developer, they have an excellent recent track record.1 -
That would be more convincing if the EU didn't have bad relations with just about every one of its neighbours, of any size.CarlottaVance said:In terms of size, Britain is in the sour spot relative to the EU: too small to be an equal, too big to be a client; not powerful enough to assert its will in trade negotiations but hefty enough to cause trouble.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/24/trust-britain-covid-vaccine-compromise
In the old days, when I used to go to meetings in Brussels professionally, you'd even get some Eurocrats to admit that that slightly bothers them, over a beer in the Grande Place.0 -
Without getting into the underlying argument, anyone who sees deep meaning in a Boris Johnson joke is building on sand. He makes jokes for two reasons: (1) he enjoys making them (2) he likes indulging his audience. Making a "greed is good" joke to an audience of Tory MPs ticks both boxes - it sounds mildly naughty, yet the audience will agree with the underlying premise, as Philip does.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes he really was.
Greed and capitalism work. Its just not polite to say that.
Fine, but get him in front of an audience of NHS workers, and he's perfectly capable of making a "greed is bad" comment too, with some humorous twist that he's capable of thinking up. I shouldn't think he really has a strong view one way or the other.2 -
The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.Scott_xP said:0 -
A Guardian classic, from one of their better writers.CarlottaVance said:In terms of size, Britain is in the sour spot relative to the EU: too small to be an equal, too big to be a client; not powerful enough to assert its will in trade negotiations but hefty enough to cause trouble.
That is a blueprint for relations on a downward spiral, which neither side wants or knows how to avert. Johnson has called for a cooperative front against a third Covid wave. Many EU national leaders are not sold on the Commission’s threat of a vaccine export ban. Compromise on AstraZeneca is available. But in the longer term, the tensions are structural and hard to overcome when all reserves of trust are spent.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/24/trust-britain-covid-vaccine-compromise
1) We are doomed
2) It certainly isn't the fault of the Guardian or anyone who supports it
3) Everyone else has gone wrong (except in part the EU)
4) There are no solutions, and we certainly don't have any
5) Democracy, a free press, moderate government, European peace and unparalleled wealth make no difference. We are doomed. Keep clicking or the Guardian stops making money
6) No we have not noticed that we have become a self parody.
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Thanks for this. One of the issues is we are very used to the NHS in the UK, which for all its flaws, is actually pretty integrated. We also routinely get news stories from abroad about how much better other systems are (whether that is objectively true I can't say). At the moment it is en vogue to say that France, with a similar number of cases to the UK, but much fewer deaths, must have a better healthcare system. That may be true, but unless people from the UK experience it, mostly we are guessing.kamski said:
I think people don't realise quite how fragmented the health system is in Germany. If I call for an anbulance I'll get through to the fire service who'll decide to send an ambulance. That ambulance could be run by the German Red Cross, the Johanniters, the Maltesers or maybe someone else. They will take me to the nearest hospital in the city, which could be run by an organisation that's part of the catholic church, or the evangelical church, or the university, or some other organisation. Because the ambulance staff are very limited in what treatment they can do themselves it often happens that they decide a doctor is needed and they will call for a Notarzt who will then arrive in a Notarzt car.Foxy said:
I have said all along that the biggest problem in vaccination will be the distribution and delivery infrastructure. The NHS has a very good system for this, but much of the world has a more fragmented retail health sector.DavidL said:
And yet what we are seeing is a surge in vaccine right now which is expected to fall for up to a month in a couple of weeks time slowing down the program. Our peak day was over 850k but we are averaging something like 400k. We have the capacity to do more but we don't have the stocks.Philip_Thompson said:
Perhaps. But the UK's vaccine rollout after an initial exponential growth period has for months now trended at a remarkably flat line.DavidL said:
That chart is plain fantasy though. What we have all painfully learned is that vaccine supply is lumpy and inherently unpredictable. Suggesting that the EU will have a smooth 120m vaccines a month, month after month, suggests to me that whoever created it has no idea what they are talking about.kle4 said:
They shouldn't end up as far behind as currently feared. A focus on jabbing not jabbering would help with that.MattW said:Hmm. Crude maths in the chart, but interesting.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1373948397191888898
It may be lumpy but it may average at those amounts.
There are many things that are just baffling about the EU effort but one of them is the failure by Member States to use what they have, to create the capacity to get vaccines into arms efficiently. The EU is starting to point the finger about this which, although it will hardly improve relations, may well contain a significant element of truth. And that is before the idiocy in Italy where prosecutors are seizing vaccine.
My GP has her own practice, total staff 2: her and a receptionist. The practice is open Monday-Friday but only in the mornings, plus 2 afternoons a week. This is fairly typical. She is expecting to get 20 doses a week initially of the vaccine after Easter, yes it sounds pitiful but I'm not sure she could cope with many more. At least she can vaccinate herself and her receptionist, and check which of the most vulnerable people on her books haven't been vaccinated yet.
My wife works in the emergency department of a hospital that is run by an organisation that runs precisely one hospital (and a couple of care homes).
The dedicated vaccination centres are running pretty efficiently, but just don't have enough doses at the moment to do more. Hospitals, care homes, the police, and others are running their own vaccination programs, with varying degrees of efficiency.
I believe the unused doses you hear about in Germany are mainly reserved doses held back to guarantee people their second dose. With AZ they have clearly relaxed this rule to always keep a second dose for every first dose administered because they have basically not yet started the AZ second doses but have already administered a lot more than half the AZ doses delivered. With Moderna they have administered less then half the doses delivered so I guess still sticking strictly to keeping second doses back, but I'm not really sure.1 -
I would have got it out of there with a full send.Nigelb said:
Can’t believe no one has fingered @Dura_Ace for this.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Yes, he's a renowned (by himself anyway) napper of stone-age sex toys.Mortimer said:
Has SeanT once of this parish found new employment since travel writing isn't really happening?SeaShantyIrish2 said:
OK, so which PBer do you vote most likely to get a super-freighter stuck in an international waterway?rpjs said:No matter how bad your day may have been today, at least you didn’t block the entire Suez Canal with your ship
https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1374438210315513864
(Unless the captain of the MV Ever Given happens to be a PBer, that is.)
However, it is just possible, that he does his best napping while on sea duty with the merchant marine.
Certainly napping on duty might explain THIS fine mess.
Sneaked out to Suez for a reunion with old shipmates, and during the celebrations he ‘persuaded’ the pilot to let him attempt to drift the vessel.
It’s not as though he hasn’t confessed to similar with other vehicles.0 -
Having at one time been in a position where some GP's wouldn't correct prescriptions unless they were given a stamped addressed envelope ........ when the alternative was to send the patient back to swear at the receptionist .....I would concur.Nigel_Foremain said:
I find this type of conversation astonishing. Why should it be a bad thing that the scientists get recognition, financial or otherwise? What is wrong with pharma companies making profits that go into all our pension and investment funds? It seems in some peoples eyes the only people that have any virtue are those working for the public sector and particularly the NHS.Malmesbury said:
I don't think you have to worry about the financial health of the scientists involved. They will all be nobly accepting all kinds of nominal positions at various companies. so that said companies can have their bio on their websites.Philip_Thompson said:
Scientists working for companies seeking to make a profit, yes. Again with the sole exception of Oxford/AZN.Jonathan said:
Strip out the scientists and see how you get on. This is primarily a triumph of science, then government logistics. Capitalism played a supporting role and has largely been suspended whilst governments expedite funding.Philip_Thompson said:
Yeah capitalism played no role, that's why state run institutions have produced the vaccine instead of companies. Oh no, wait, no that's not true.Jonathan said:
To attribute the vaccine to capitalism is wrong. First and foremost it was science, then it was the purchasing and logistical power of government to focus on an urgent goal, then somewhere down the line capitalism played a role along with Dolly Parton.SouthamObserver said:
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Capitalism produced all the western vaccines apart from arguably Oxford/AZN.
Pfizer, Moderna, J&J - these aren't nationalised institutions.
I may disappoint them to know that some of the greediest and self serving individuals I have ever come across in my working life are not in the private sector but work as hospital doctors, and I don't think GPs are much better.
This does not mean they are all like it before some of you start virtue signalling, just that there is a similar proportion of such people as there are in other walks of life. There are a number of doctors who want the very nice NHS consultants salary, their huge pensions, the private practice income and also claim ownership of patents that they develop while working for the NHS (though the latter practice has become harder for the hard pressed souls).
"Greed" whatever that is, is not confined to the private sector
In my experience members of all professions, except possibly the clergy can be motivated by money over ethics.0 -
BBC now saying No 10 has clarified that BJ was referring to business's hunger for success or some such, sandwich story obviously classic Kuenssbergian bullshit (which means the new version isn't I'm sure).0
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Plus science is built on quite big teams - not all of who will be in the public eye, or earning big salaries. I chose to work in science for the love of science, not for the financial reward. If that had been my driving force I'd have whored myself out on the University milk round. Instead I still have a career I love, get excited when we make even tiny breakthroughs, but have a far lower salary than many under 30 in different careers.Nigel_Foremain said:
I find this type of conversation astonishing. Why should it be a bad thing that the scientists get recognition, financial or otherwise? What is wrong with pharma companies making profits that go into all our pension and investment funds? It seems in some peoples eyes the only people that have any virtue are those working for the public sector and particularly the NHS.Malmesbury said:
I don't think you have to worry about the financial health of the scientists involved. They will all be nobly accepting all kinds of nominal positions at various companies. so that said companies can have their bio on their websites.Philip_Thompson said:
Scientists working for companies seeking to make a profit, yes. Again with the sole exception of Oxford/AZN.Jonathan said:
Strip out the scientists and see how you get on. This is primarily a triumph of science, then government logistics. Capitalism played a supporting role and has largely been suspended whilst governments expedite funding.Philip_Thompson said:
Yeah capitalism played no role, that's why state run institutions have produced the vaccine instead of companies. Oh no, wait, no that's not true.Jonathan said:
To attribute the vaccine to capitalism is wrong. First and foremost it was science, then it was the purchasing and logistical power of government to focus on an urgent goal, then somewhere down the line capitalism played a role along with Dolly Parton.SouthamObserver said:
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Capitalism produced all the western vaccines apart from arguably Oxford/AZN.
Pfizer, Moderna, J&J - these aren't nationalised institutions.
I may disappoint them to know that some of the greediest and self serving individuals I have ever come across in my working life are not in the private sector but work as hospital doctors, and I don't think GPs are much better.
This does not mean they are all like it before some of you start virtue signalling, just that there is a similar proportion of such people as there are in other walks of life. There are a number of doctors who want the very nice NHS consultants salary, their huge pensions, the private practice income and also claim ownership of patents that they develop while working for the NHS (though the latter practice has become harder for the hard pressed souls).
"Greed" whatever that is, is not confined to the private sector5 -
Interesting. Let's just examine " a leader from a posh background who pretends to be a friend to ordinary people, who makes racist remarks, who is lazy, disorganised and not very bright," Sounds like Corbyn all over.Mexicanpete said:
To sum up Ydoethur's statement, Johnson and Corbyn are the two cheeks of the same sorry arse.Roger said:
That is a post that will make no sense to anybody but will get applause from those who would wish it to be true.ydoethur said:
Well, quite. I mean it’s not like you had a leader from a posh background who pretends to be a friend to ordinary people, who makes racist remarks, who is lazy, disorganised and not very bright, and is a love rat famous for spending money he hasn’t got on things he doesn’t need.NickPalmer said:
I actually met a voter who said "They're all the same" in 2019 about Johnson and Corbyn! I said, "Honestly, what do we have to do to persuade you we're different??" She mumbled grumpily and closed the door.bigjohnowls said:
Our Canvassers have seen the return of "They're all the same" that disappeared in 2017 and 2019
That anyone would think Labour was the same as the Tories is just amazing.
Cheeks of the same arse indeed.0 -
Theoretically possible, but the SPD really didn't want to stay in government as junior partners last time around so I would say very unlikely. On the current polling numbers Union + the Greens is easily the most likely coalition. Where it gets more interesting is if the Greens end up being the largest party.tlg86 said:Thinking about it, could CDU/CSU, SPD and FDP work if they get over 50% between them? It's the Greens that the FDP don't like, isn't it?
0 -
From what the shadow Home Secretary was saying on media this morning, can anyone suggest what Labour's policy is? Despite having the luxury of not having to implement anything he says he gave not a single answer or the smallest clue on R4 this morning.RochdalePioneers said:
The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.Scott_xP said:
1 -
All of those things were known to the EU when they decided to give Cameron nothing meaningful he could take to the UKs voters. As with vaccines, they just don't think things through beyond "this is our position, which is immutable".CarlottaVance said:In terms of size, Britain is in the sour spot relative to the EU: too small to be an equal, too big to be a client; not powerful enough to assert its will in trade negotiations but hefty enough to cause trouble.
1 -
Mr. Foremain, except that the incumbent is a self-regarding desperate-to-be-liked creature of ambition without any concerns over ideology, whereas Corbyn is the exact opposite, content to be utterly powerless provided he gets to wallow in his own far left self-righteousness.1
-
But the union and Greens might not get an outright majority between them. Could you see them governing as a minority administration? It's one thing for a single party just short of a majority to govern, quite another for a coalition to do so.kamski said:
Theoretically possible, but the SPD really didn't want to stay in government as junior partners last time around so I would say very unlikely. On the current polling numbers Union + the Greens is easily the most likely coalition. Where it gets more interesting is if the Greens end up being the largest party.tlg86 said:Thinking about it, could CDU/CSU, SPD and FDP work if they get over 50% between them? It's the Greens that the FDP don't like, isn't it?
0 -
I am not content for a perpetual Boris but for now I am content that he continues in post and on Blair I voted for two of his three terms and was not at all disappointed when he left officeMexicanpete said:
This is the perennial problem with Labour idealogues, they hate compromise more than they do the Conservatives. This is why they are content to see perpetual Johnson and disappointed at three terms of Blair.Pulpstar said:The danger for Labour is that conservative voters think they're "acceptable" without actually voting for them whilst the left deserts them for the greens or something.
0 -
-
Indeed, and credit to you, and the millions of scientists and other workers and professionals all around the world that work for private and public sector that quietly get on with their job without shouting "look at me". It would be nice if they got a little more recognition.turbotubbs said:
Plus science is built on quite big teams - not all of who will be in the public eye, or earning big salaries. I chose to work in science for the love of science, not for the financial reward. If that had been my driving force I'd have whored myself out on the University milk round. Instead I still have a career I love, get excited when we make even tiny breakthroughs, but have a far lower salary than many under 30 in different careers.Nigel_Foremain said:
I find this type of conversation astonishing. Why should it be a bad thing that the scientists get recognition, financial or otherwise? What is wrong with pharma companies making profits that go into all our pension and investment funds? It seems in some peoples eyes the only people that have any virtue are those working for the public sector and particularly the NHS.Malmesbury said:
I don't think you have to worry about the financial health of the scientists involved. They will all be nobly accepting all kinds of nominal positions at various companies. so that said companies can have their bio on their websites.Philip_Thompson said:
Scientists working for companies seeking to make a profit, yes. Again with the sole exception of Oxford/AZN.Jonathan said:
Strip out the scientists and see how you get on. This is primarily a triumph of science, then government logistics. Capitalism played a supporting role and has largely been suspended whilst governments expedite funding.Philip_Thompson said:
Yeah capitalism played no role, that's why state run institutions have produced the vaccine instead of companies. Oh no, wait, no that's not true.Jonathan said:
To attribute the vaccine to capitalism is wrong. First and foremost it was science, then it was the purchasing and logistical power of government to focus on an urgent goal, then somewhere down the line capitalism played a role along with Dolly Parton.SouthamObserver said:
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Capitalism produced all the western vaccines apart from arguably Oxford/AZN.
Pfizer, Moderna, J&J - these aren't nationalised institutions.
I may disappoint them to know that some of the greediest and self serving individuals I have ever come across in my working life are not in the private sector but work as hospital doctors, and I don't think GPs are much better.
This does not mean they are all like it before some of you start virtue signalling, just that there is a similar proportion of such people as there are in other walks of life. There are a number of doctors who want the very nice NHS consultants salary, their huge pensions, the private practice income and also claim ownership of patents that they develop while working for the NHS (though the latter practice has become harder for the hard pressed souls).
"Greed" whatever that is, is not confined to the private sector3 -
Cameron wanted cake-ism. Further the UKIP-ers, inflamed by the likes of Boris would have come back for more. If the people at the top of the EU don't trust the present leadership in UK, who can blame them?MarqueeMark said:
All of those things were known to the EU when they decided to give Cameron nothing meaningful he could take to the UKs voters. As with vaccines, they just don't think things through beyond "this is our position, which is immutable".CarlottaVance said:In terms of size, Britain is in the sour spot relative to the EU: too small to be an equal, too big to be a client; not powerful enough to assert its will in trade negotiations but hefty enough to cause trouble.
0 -
'Greed' is a value not a fact. In our language it is definitionally bad, but it can't be possible to agree what it comprises. Any sort of active self interest could be described as greed, but none has to be. I think Boris knows all that. Among other things he thinks, and so far has succeeded, that causing occasional 'offence' is politically fine for him.NickPalmer said:
Without getting into the underlying argument, anyone who sees deep meaning in a Boris Johnson joke is building on sand. He makes jokes for two reasons: (1) he enjoys making them (2) he likes indulging his audience. Making a "greed is good" joke to an audience of Tory MPs ticks both boxes - it sounds mildly naughty, yet the audience will agree with the underlying premise, as Philip does.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes he really was.
Greed and capitalism work. Its just not polite to say that.
Fine, but get him in front of an audience of NHS workers, and he's perfectly capable of making a "greed is bad" comment too, with some humorous twist that he's capable of thinking up. I shouldn't think he really has a strong view one way or the other.
1 -
Apparently the Ever Given had a power blackout during 50kmh winds while transversing the canal. The perfect storm...
BRB filling my car to the brim with petrol...1 -
So - can Starmer land a blow at PMQs about "greed" and 1% for nurses?0
-
Yes, that is where the two cheeks part, if that is not too revolting a metaphor!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Foremain, except that the incumbent is a self-regarding desperate-to-be-liked creature of ambition without any concerns over ideology, whereas Corbyn is the exact opposite, content to be utterly powerless provided he gets to wallow in his own far left self-righteousness.
0 -
SKS and every Tory and Labour leader since 1979 are quite literally all part of the same neo liberal arise.(except for jezza)Mexicanpete said:
To sum up Ydoethur's statement, Johnson and Corbyn are the two cheeks of the same sorry arse.Roger said:
That is a post that will make no sense to anybody but will get applause from those who would wish it to be true.ydoethur said:
Well, quite. I mean it’s not like you had a leader from a posh background who pretends to be a friend to ordinary people, who makes racist remarks, who is lazy, disorganised and not very bright, and is a love rat famous for spending money he hasn’t got on things he doesn’t need.NickPalmer said:
I actually met a voter who said "They're all the same" in 2019 about Johnson and Corbyn! I said, "Honestly, what do we have to do to persuade you we're different??" She mumbled grumpily and closed the door.bigjohnowls said:
Our Canvassers have seen the return of "They're all the same" that disappeared in 2017 and 2019
That anyone would think Labour was the same as the Tories is just amazing.
0 -
Both inevitable and perfectly fine imo. The notion that everyone will follow all of the rules until the day they are formally lifted is detached from reality. By the time the government says people can do a certain thing, many will already be doing it. I'm sure this is priced into the planning.rottenborough said:1 -
The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.RochdalePioneers said:
The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.Scott_xP said:0 -
The holy trinity:RochdalePioneers said:
What is the appeal in owning a psychotic breed of dog that is a ticking time bomb? Every time one of these dogs mauls a seal or a baby its always "he was such a gentle animal" from the owner.CarlottaVance said:So not some chav then:
https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1374632851153489924?s=20
He never bites (of dogs just after dog has bitten)
He never kicks (of horses, just after...)
It never rains here usually at this time of year (amidst deluge...)3 -
I think a lot of us tend to have a bit of an agenda when making comparisons, and there tend to be pluses and minuses to the different systems (along with different amounts spent). Which tends to make people advocate throwing the baby out with the bathwater, or advocate spending a lot of effort on big reorganisations, rather than looking at how to try and incorporate best practice without disrupting everything needlessly.turbotubbs said:
Thanks for this. One of the issues is we are very used to the NHS in the UK, which for all its flaws, is actually pretty integrated. We also routinely get news stories from abroad about how much better other systems are (whether that is objectively true I can't say). At the moment it is en vogue to say that France, with a similar number of cases to the UK, but much fewer deaths, must have a better healthcare system. That may be true, but unless people from the UK experience it, mostly we are guessing.kamski said:
I think people don't realise quite how fragmented the health system is in Germany. If I call for an anbulance I'll get through to the fire service who'll decide to send an ambulance. That ambulance could be run by the German Red Cross, the Johanniters, the Maltesers or maybe someone else. They will take me to the nearest hospital in the city, which could be run by an organisation that's part of the catholic church, or the evangelical church, or the university, or some other organisation. Because the ambulance staff are very limited in what treatment they can do themselves it often happens that they decide a doctor is needed and they will call for a Notarzt who will then arrive in a Notarzt car.Foxy said:
I have said all along that the biggest problem in vaccination will be the distribution and delivery infrastructure. The NHS has a very good system for this, but much of the world has a more fragmented retail health sector.DavidL said:
And yet what we are seeing is a surge in vaccine right now which is expected to fall for up to a month in a couple of weeks time slowing down the program. Our peak day was over 850k but we are averaging something like 400k. We have the capacity to do more but we don't have the stocks.Philip_Thompson said:
Perhaps. But the UK's vaccine rollout after an initial exponential growth period has for months now trended at a remarkably flat line.DavidL said:
That chart is plain fantasy though. What we have all painfully learned is that vaccine supply is lumpy and inherently unpredictable. Suggesting that the EU will have a smooth 120m vaccines a month, month after month, suggests to me that whoever created it has no idea what they are talking about.kle4 said:
They shouldn't end up as far behind as currently feared. A focus on jabbing not jabbering would help with that.MattW said:Hmm. Crude maths in the chart, but interesting.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1373948397191888898
It may be lumpy but it may average at those amounts.
There are many things that are just baffling about the EU effort but one of them is the failure by Member States to use what they have, to create the capacity to get vaccines into arms efficiently. The EU is starting to point the finger about this which, although it will hardly improve relations, may well contain a significant element of truth. And that is before the idiocy in Italy where prosecutors are seizing vaccine.
My GP has her own practice, total staff 2: her and a receptionist. The practice is open Monday-Friday but only in the mornings, plus 2 afternoons a week. This is fairly typical. She is expecting to get 20 doses a week initially of the vaccine after Easter, yes it sounds pitiful but I'm not sure she could cope with many more. At least she can vaccinate herself and her receptionist, and check which of the most vulnerable people on her books haven't been vaccinated yet.
My wife works in the emergency department of a hospital that is run by an organisation that runs precisely one hospital (and a couple of care homes).
The dedicated vaccination centres are running pretty efficiently, but just don't have enough doses at the moment to do more. Hospitals, care homes, the police, and others are running their own vaccination programs, with varying degrees of efficiency.
I believe the unused doses you hear about in Germany are mainly reserved doses held back to guarantee people their second dose. With AZ they have clearly relaxed this rule to always keep a second dose for every first dose administered because they have basically not yet started the AZ second doses but have already administered a lot more than half the AZ doses delivered. With Moderna they have administered less then half the doses delivered so I guess still sticking strictly to keeping second doses back, but I'm not really sure.
On a related note, before this pandemic there was quite a bit of criticism in Germany of the inefficiency of running a health system with so much "spare" capacity in terms of intensive care beds. That criticism has stopped, at least for now.0 -
To keep us in the EU, Cameron needed cake-ism to be offered.OldKingCole said:
Cameron wanted cake-ism. Further the UKIP-ers, inflamed by the likes of Boris would have come back for more. If the people at the top of the EU don't trust the present leadership in UK, who can blame them?MarqueeMark said:
All of those things were known to the EU when they decided to give Cameron nothing meaningful he could take to the UKs voters. As with vaccines, they just don't think things through beyond "this is our position, which is immutable".CarlottaVance said:In terms of size, Britain is in the sour spot relative to the EU: too small to be an equal, too big to be a client; not powerful enough to assert its will in trade negotiations but hefty enough to cause trouble.
The EU were too stupid to read the signs.2 -
Ironically, if the EU do play silly buggers with vaccineS, then the argument for keeping the UK's borders shut may be an easier sell - floated in the Daily Mail, yesterday:
https://twitter.com/mailplus/status/1374405981493358604?s=201 -
Just to add, of course, the parties will win more seats than their share of the vote because of those parties not reaching the threshold. So if the CDU/CSU + Greens is c.48% of the vote, that should get them over the line in terms of seats.tlg86 said:
But the union and Greens might not get an outright majority between them. Could you see them governing as a minority administration? It's one thing for a single party just short of a majority to govern, quite another for a coalition to do so.kamski said:
Theoretically possible, but the SPD really didn't want to stay in government as junior partners last time around so I would say very unlikely. On the current polling numbers Union + the Greens is easily the most likely coalition. Where it gets more interesting is if the Greens end up being the largest party.tlg86 said:Thinking about it, could CDU/CSU, SPD and FDP work if they get over 50% between them? It's the Greens that the FDP don't like, isn't it?
1 -
Just as BoJo seems to be learning, it is back to form: https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1374458343226404871.
One day he's going to get somebody killed.0 -
The good/bad news for Cons/Lab is that the more Lab demonises Boris the less they focus on the "ishoos". Liar, corrupt, incompetent...all may be true of BoJo but the opposition would say that, wouldn't they, so there's no electoral cut through.
Meanwhile, people genuinely like Boris and the Cons carry on governing the country.1 -
I'm a little surprised that Starmer has not yet managed to get Boris to REALLY contradict himself during PMQ's.MarqueeMark said:So - can Starmer land a blow at PMQs about "greed" and 1% for nurses?
Or if he has, it hasn't been juicy enough to be widely reported.
Or, as someone will point out, he has, and I've missed it.0 -
It is of course populist politics, but it will have resonance. I regard myself as a centrist, but I do find it quite galling that anyone who is claiming to be fleeing persecution can travel through a number of perfectly safe states and then say, "actually I want to claim safety in a place much further away that also involves me risking my family in an inflatable".RochdalePioneers said:
The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.Scott_xP said:2 -
One thing I understand very well is Germany Privacy laws.turbotubbs said:
Thanks for this. One of the issues is we are very used to the NHS in the UK, which for all its flaws, is actually pretty integrated. We also routinely get news stories from abroad about how much better other systems are (whether that is objectively true I can't say). At the moment it is en vogue to say that France, with a similar number of cases to the UK, but much fewer deaths, must have a better healthcare system. That may be true, but unless people from the UK experience it, mostly we are guessing.kamski said:
I think people don't realise quite how fragmented the health system is in Germany. If I call for an anbulance I'll get through to the fire service who'll decide to send an ambulance. That ambulance could be run by the German Red Cross, the Johanniters, the Maltesers or maybe someone else. They will take me to the nearest hospital in the city, which could be run by an organisation that's part of the catholic church, or the evangelical church, or the university, or some other organisation. Because the ambulance staff are very limited in what treatment they can do themselves it often happens that they decide a doctor is needed and they will call for a Notarzt who will then arrive in a Notarzt car.Foxy said:
I have said all along that the biggest problem in vaccination will be the distribution and delivery infrastructure. The NHS has a very good system for this, but much of the world has a more fragmented retail health sector.DavidL said:
And yet what we are seeing is a surge in vaccine right now which is expected to fall for up to a month in a couple of weeks time slowing down the program. Our peak day was over 850k but we are averaging something like 400k. We have the capacity to do more but we don't have the stocks.Philip_Thompson said:
Perhaps. But the UK's vaccine rollout after an initial exponential growth period has for months now trended at a remarkably flat line.DavidL said:
That chart is plain fantasy though. What we have all painfully learned is that vaccine supply is lumpy and inherently unpredictable. Suggesting that the EU will have a smooth 120m vaccines a month, month after month, suggests to me that whoever created it has no idea what they are talking about.kle4 said:
They shouldn't end up as far behind as currently feared. A focus on jabbing not jabbering would help with that.MattW said:Hmm. Crude maths in the chart, but interesting.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1373948397191888898
It may be lumpy but it may average at those amounts.
There are many things that are just baffling about the EU effort but one of them is the failure by Member States to use what they have, to create the capacity to get vaccines into arms efficiently. The EU is starting to point the finger about this which, although it will hardly improve relations, may well contain a significant element of truth. And that is before the idiocy in Italy where prosecutors are seizing vaccine.
My GP has her own practice, total staff 2: her and a receptionist. The practice is open Monday-Friday but only in the mornings, plus 2 afternoons a week. This is fairly typical. She is expecting to get 20 doses a week initially of the vaccine after Easter, yes it sounds pitiful but I'm not sure she could cope with many more. At least she can vaccinate herself and her receptionist, and check which of the most vulnerable people on her books haven't been vaccinated yet.
My wife works in the emergency department of a hospital that is run by an organisation that runs precisely one hospital (and a couple of care homes).
The dedicated vaccination centres are running pretty efficiently, but just don't have enough doses at the moment to do more. Hospitals, care homes, the police, and others are running their own vaccination programs, with varying degrees of efficiency.
I believe the unused doses you hear about in Germany are mainly reserved doses held back to guarantee people their second dose. With AZ they have clearly relaxed this rule to always keep a second dose for every first dose administered because they have basically not yet started the AZ second doses but have already administered a lot more than half the AZ doses delivered. With Moderna they have administered less then half the doses delivered so I guess still sticking strictly to keeping second doses back, but I'm not really sure.
So it didn't surprise me that it's proven impossible to identify people by age to prioritise the people being vaccinated. The only bit that did surprise was them finding a list (telephone directories) which provided enough information to allow them to hunt for names that are more likely to be old.0 -
He must be very relieved as you have previously wanted him gone today/after Brexit/after Covid.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am not content for a perpetual Boris but for now I am content that he continues in post and on Blair I voted for two of his three terms and was not at all disappointed when he left officeMexicanpete said:
This is the perennial problem with Labour idealogues, they hate compromise more than they do the Conservatives. This is why they are content to see perpetual Johnson and disappointed at three terms of Blair.Pulpstar said:The danger for Labour is that conservative voters think they're "acceptable" without actually voting for them whilst the left deserts them for the greens or something.
0 -
Something I agree with you on.Nigel_Foremain said:
It is of course populist politics, but it will have resonance. I regard myself as a centrist, but I do find it quite galling that anyone who is claiming to be fleeing persecution can travel through a number of perfectly safe states and then say, "actually I want to claim safety in a place much further away that also involves me risking my family in an inflatable".RochdalePioneers said:
The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.Scott_xP said:
I welcome refugees and migration in general. But we should be helping those in need, not those selfish/stupid/dangerous enough to be putting themselves or their family in dinghies from the hostile dangerous state of ... France.
There are millions of refugees in Turkey etc law-abidingly seeking refuge. I would agree with Turkey a straight swap, someone who comes in a dinghy in exchange for one or even two refugees from a camp.2 -
Not sure its justice .. given its a technicalityOldKingCole said:
A Conservative Govt. colluding with an employers organisation to do down trade unionists.squareroot2 said:
I am sure Keir Starmer ensured justice was done when he was DPPTheuniondivvie said:Speak out against the state’s prejudiced prosecution of militant industrial action? Bit too controversial I’m afraid, might piss off the red tops.
50 years ago you say?
Hard work already done you say?
That funny bloke off The Royle Family you say?
Let’s go for it!
https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1374374378738130956?s=21
Who'd a thunk it!
I for one am very glad justice has at last been done.0 -
And I am pragmaticDura_Ace said:
He must be very relieved as you have previously wanted him gone today/after Brexit/after Covid.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am not content for a perpetual Boris but for now I am content that he continues in post and on Blair I voted for two of his three terms and was not at all disappointed when he left officeMexicanpete said:
This is the perennial problem with Labour idealogues, they hate compromise more than they do the Conservatives. This is why they are content to see perpetual Johnson and disappointed at three terms of Blair.Pulpstar said:The danger for Labour is that conservative voters think they're "acceptable" without actually voting for them whilst the left deserts them for the greens or something.
0 -
But for now, he has tens of thousands of lives in the bank, saved by his vaccine procurement and roll-out.....CorrectHorseBattery said:Just as BoJo seems to be learning, it is back to form: https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1374458343226404871.
One day he's going to get somebody killed.0 -
Voters like "neo liberalism" then. Campaigning against it is like campaigning for Communism - worthy if thats your thing, but utterly pointless.bigjohnowls said:
SKS and every Tory and Labour leader since 1979 are quite literally all part of the same neo liberal arise.(except for jezza)Mexicanpete said:
To sum up Ydoethur's statement, Johnson and Corbyn are the two cheeks of the same sorry arse.Roger said:
That is a post that will make no sense to anybody but will get applause from those who would wish it to be true.ydoethur said:
Well, quite. I mean it’s not like you had a leader from a posh background who pretends to be a friend to ordinary people, who makes racist remarks, who is lazy, disorganised and not very bright, and is a love rat famous for spending money he hasn’t got on things he doesn’t need.NickPalmer said:
I actually met a voter who said "They're all the same" in 2019 about Johnson and Corbyn! I said, "Honestly, what do we have to do to persuade you we're different??" She mumbled grumpily and closed the door.bigjohnowls said:
Our Canvassers have seen the return of "They're all the same" that disappeared in 2017 and 2019
That anyone would think Labour was the same as the Tories is just amazing.1 -
https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1374646280568311812?s=20
'Mr Mundell, who ran the Scottish office from 2015 to 2019, said that it was not enough just to make the economic case for the UK staying together.
He told today’s Chopper’s Politics podcast, which you can listen to easily on the audio player above: “Unionists have not to be frightened about making an emotional case for the United Kingdom.
“We've been very, very focused previously, I think, on the facts, which, you know, I think in themselves are very, very compelling. But, you know, there needs to be an emotional case for the United Kingdom as well, a heart case, as well as a head case.”'
They've certainly got the head cases.
https://twitter.com/themajorityscot/status/1374364429358350337?s=200 -
Indeed.Metatron said:Wonder if Boris was a CEO of a PLC which companies would have fired him for yesterday's comment.
Essentially he was trying to make a joke trashing business people as 'greedy'.Of course the old private snobbery of a public school/oxbridge set who simultanouisly try to scrooge off the self made 30 years ago Gerald Ratner lost his CEO job for trying to make a joke which basically trashed his own jewellery products.
Boris (and Ratner) are/were saying a lot more about themselves than about people in business.
Plenty of people in business want to make money by offering products and services in a way that they can take a pride in.And anyone who does the stockmarket will find opportunities to invest in those business's.
Part of Warren Buffett success is based on spotting and avoiding greedy rip off merchants.
I doubt many Conservative politicians have any experience or understanding of what free market wealth creating business is.
Judging by how eagerly they get paid for vague services after they leave politics they know a lot about greed however.1 -
https://twitter.com/GriffeyHilary/status/1374647950425612288Gallowgate said:Apparently the Ever Given had a power blackout during 50kmh winds while transversing the canal. The perfect storm...
BRB filling my car to the brim with petrol...
New image from the other side. It’s properly stuck, they’re going to need more than a few more diggers to get it out!1 -
I prefer cats.MikeSmithson said:
I would ban all dogs kept as pets.Pulpstar said:
Politics for all has put amusing embellishments into other tweets too - the picture of the Beirut explosion into the "Bomb Bristol" story for instance.MattW said:
Someone stirring.Dura_Ace said:Pulpstar said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1374484531516862483
Reaper drones to patrol the beaches !
Reapers don't conform to STANAG 4671 so they cannot be operated in civvie airspace. They are also based in Akrotiri so it's a bit of a long transit to get on station over Bournemouth.
MQ-9B Protector can but they aren't arriving until 2023.
That drone photo is not in the newspaper story.
Named and shamed. Quite right too.CarlottaVance said:So not some chav then:
https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1374632851153489924?s=200 -
Probably because he was smart enough to realise that the comments, while legitimate, would be seized upon by critics both domestic and foreign.Nigelb said:
So why did he attempt to obfuscate the comment ?Philip_Thompson said:
If you choose to post a Tweet without comment it generally implies you're endorsing the comment.Theuniondivvie said:
I’ve just posted someone else’s tweet. Bit early to to be triggered into a caffeine-laden, saliva-flecked defence of BJ ain’t it?Philip_Thompson said:
Are you saying *shock horror* that he might have Conservative principles today that he had seven years ago.Theuniondivvie said:
Shocking, absolutely shocking that a Conservative Prime Minister might have Conservative principles.
You'd never see an SNP First Minister saying today that Scotland should be independent if she said that seven years ago would you? Because that would be repeating yourself in your eyes.
Why would a politician having the same principles they had seven years ago be something to criticise?
Its just the same as cancel culture.1 -
Actually that is spot onTOPPING said:The good/bad news for Cons/Lab is that the more Lab demonises Boris the less they focus on the "ishoos". Liar, corrupt, incompetent...all may be true of BoJo but the opposition would say that, wouldn't they, so there's no electoral cut through.
Meanwhile, people genuinely like Boris and the Cons carry on governing the country.0 -
It'll be billed as the battle of the Gordons today, Gekko Vs Brittas*.OldKingCole said:
I'm a little surprised that Starmer has not yet managed to get Boris to REALLY contradict himself during PMQ's.MarqueeMark said:So - can Starmer land a blow at PMQs about "greed" and 1% for nurses?
Or if he has, it hasn't been juicy enough to be widely reported.
Or, as someone will point out, he has, and I've missed it.
*actually, given the Brittas moniker is simply down to the quite ordinary projection of a mild South London accent, the labelling smacks of pure form class snobbery to me, but is not surprising or unique.1 -
They wouldn't be walking the streets! They would be incarcerated - going off how much the knuckle-draggers seem to hate forrin scroungers you think they'd be happy to make some money off them.eek said:
The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.RochdalePioneers said:
The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.Scott_xP said:
Besides which it would be far cheaper than Patel's batshit ideas like floating them on a ship or housing them on Rockall. Value for Money, local jobs AND a place you can take the kids to teach the next generation to be as hateful as you are.0 -
It's more complex, isn't it. Many of those refugees have some connection with UK such as a relative here already. Others have some ability to speak English...... one of the worlds universal languages.Philip_Thompson said:
Something I agree with you on.Nigel_Foremain said:
It is of course populist politics, but it will have resonance. I regard myself as a centrist, but I do find it quite galling that anyone who is claiming to be fleeing persecution can travel through a number of perfectly safe states and then say, "actually I want to claim safety in a place much further away that also involves me risking my family in an inflatable".RochdalePioneers said:
The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.Scott_xP said:
I welcome refugees and migration in general. But we should be helping those in need, not those selfish/stupid/dangerous enough to be putting themselves or their family in dinghies from the hostile dangerous state of ... France.
There are millions of refugees in Turkey etc law-abidingly seeking refuge. I would agree with Turkey a straight swap, someone who comes in a dinghy in exchange for one or even two refugees from a camp.
One wonders why, when Patel's parents decided to leave Uganda, they came to Hertfordshire instead of making for their ancestral Gujerat.0 -
The GP stuff resembles the service that many get from their GPSs in the UK. My local one is very good, but a number of people locally use A&E at a nearby hospital, since they can't get appointments within the same week etc.turbotubbs said:
Thanks for this. One of the issues is we are very used to the NHS in the UK, which for all its flaws, is actually pretty integrated. We also routinely get news stories from abroad about how much better other systems are (whether that is objectively true I can't say). At the moment it is en vogue to say that France, with a similar number of cases to the UK, but much fewer deaths, must have a better healthcare system. That may be true, but unless people from the UK experience it, mostly we are guessing.kamski said:
I think people don't realise quite how fragmented the health system is in Germany. If I call for an anbulance I'll get through to the fire service who'll decide to send an ambulance. That ambulance could be run by the German Red Cross, the Johanniters, the Maltesers or maybe someone else. They will take me to the nearest hospital in the city, which could be run by an organisation that's part of the catholic church, or the evangelical church, or the university, or some other organisation. Because the ambulance staff are very limited in what treatment they can do themselves it often happens that they decide a doctor is needed and they will call for a Notarzt who will then arrive in a Notarzt car.Foxy said:
I have said all along that the biggest problem in vaccination will be the distribution and delivery infrastructure. The NHS has a very good system for this, but much of the world has a more fragmented retail health sector.DavidL said:
And yet what we are seeing is a surge in vaccine right now which is expected to fall for up to a month in a couple of weeks time slowing down the program. Our peak day was over 850k but we are averaging something like 400k. We have the capacity to do more but we don't have the stocks.Philip_Thompson said:
Perhaps. But the UK's vaccine rollout after an initial exponential growth period has for months now trended at a remarkably flat line.DavidL said:
That chart is plain fantasy though. What we have all painfully learned is that vaccine supply is lumpy and inherently unpredictable. Suggesting that the EU will have a smooth 120m vaccines a month, month after month, suggests to me that whoever created it has no idea what they are talking about.kle4 said:
They shouldn't end up as far behind as currently feared. A focus on jabbing not jabbering would help with that.MattW said:Hmm. Crude maths in the chart, but interesting.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1373948397191888898
It may be lumpy but it may average at those amounts.
There are many things that are just baffling about the EU effort but one of them is the failure by Member States to use what they have, to create the capacity to get vaccines into arms efficiently. The EU is starting to point the finger about this which, although it will hardly improve relations, may well contain a significant element of truth. And that is before the idiocy in Italy where prosecutors are seizing vaccine.
My GP has her own practice, total staff 2: her and a receptionist. The practice is open Monday-Friday but only in the mornings, plus 2 afternoons a week. This is fairly typical. She is expecting to get 20 doses a week initially of the vaccine after Easter, yes it sounds pitiful but I'm not sure she could cope with many more. At least she can vaccinate herself and her receptionist, and check which of the most vulnerable people on her books haven't been vaccinated yet.
My wife works in the emergency department of a hospital that is run by an organisation that runs precisely one hospital (and a couple of care homes).
The dedicated vaccination centres are running pretty efficiently, but just don't have enough doses at the moment to do more. Hospitals, care homes, the police, and others are running their own vaccination programs, with varying degrees of efficiency.
I believe the unused doses you hear about in Germany are mainly reserved doses held back to guarantee people their second dose. With AZ they have clearly relaxed this rule to always keep a second dose for every first dose administered because they have basically not yet started the AZ second doses but have already administered a lot more than half the AZ doses delivered. With Moderna they have administered less then half the doses delivered so I guess still sticking strictly to keeping second doses back, but I'm not really sure.
Wasn't there a hospital trial of a GP style service attached to A&E to help people doing this?0 -
An estimated 1.35 billion people speak English, should we house them all?OldKingCole said:
It's more complex, isn't it. Many of those refugees have some connection with UK such as a relative here already. Others have some ability to speak English...... one of the worlds universal languages.Philip_Thompson said:
Something I agree with you on.Nigel_Foremain said:
It is of course populist politics, but it will have resonance. I regard myself as a centrist, but I do find it quite galling that anyone who is claiming to be fleeing persecution can travel through a number of perfectly safe states and then say, "actually I want to claim safety in a place much further away that also involves me risking my family in an inflatable".RochdalePioneers said:
The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.Scott_xP said:
I welcome refugees and migration in general. But we should be helping those in need, not those selfish/stupid/dangerous enough to be putting themselves or their family in dinghies from the hostile dangerous state of ... France.
There are millions of refugees in Turkey etc law-abidingly seeking refuge. I would agree with Turkey a straight swap, someone who comes in a dinghy in exchange for one or even two refugees from a camp.
One wonders why, when Patel's parents decided to leave Uganda, they came to Hertfordshire instead of their ancestral Gujerat.
Why should eg an English speaking impoverished woman or child refugee alone in Turkey who has a relative here be unable to come here but a healthy young man who has money to pay people smugglers for a ride in a dinghy across the Channel can make it?
There is nothing "generous" in prioritising people based on their willingness and ability to pay people smugglers.1 -
Small but significant chance that this will become a huge story, including about petrol supplies etc.Sandpit said:
https://twitter.com/GriffeyHilary/status/1374647950425612288Gallowgate said:Apparently the Ever Given had a power blackout during 50kmh winds while transversing the canal. The perfect storm...
BRB filling my car to the brim with petrol...
New image from the other side. It’s properly stuck, they’re going to need more than a few more diggers to get it out!
1 -
Just read a report that the serious flooding around Sydney is twice the size of the UK and waterfalls are flowing off Uluru (Ayers Rock)0
-
Torrey Canyon solution beckons. The EAF can use their new Rafales.Sandpit said:
https://twitter.com/GriffeyHilary/status/1374647950425612288Gallowgate said:Apparently the Ever Given had a power blackout during 50kmh winds while transversing the canal. The perfect storm...
BRB filling my car to the brim with petrol...
New image from the other side. It’s properly stuck, they’re going to need more than a few more diggers to get it out!0 -
Who had a Suez Crisis on their 2021 bingo cards?algarkirk said:
Small but significant chance that this will become a huge story, including about petrol supplies etc.Sandpit said:
https://twitter.com/GriffeyHilary/status/1374647950425612288Gallowgate said:Apparently the Ever Given had a power blackout during 50kmh winds while transversing the canal. The perfect storm...
BRB filling my car to the brim with petrol...
New image from the other side. It’s properly stuck, they’re going to need more than a few more diggers to get it out!1 -
I expect they will have to unload the containersalgarkirk said:
Small but significant chance that this will become a huge story, including about petrol supplies etc.Sandpit said:
https://twitter.com/GriffeyHilary/status/1374647950425612288Gallowgate said:Apparently the Ever Given had a power blackout during 50kmh winds while transversing the canal. The perfect storm...
BRB filling my car to the brim with petrol...
New image from the other side. It’s properly stuck, they’re going to need more than a few more diggers to get it out!0 -
I think that's right. You get virtue and vice in both sectors. Of course you do. Also money is not imo as much of a driver for people as often assumed. You need more than that to make you throw your heart & soul into something.OldKingCole said:
Having at one time been in a position where some GP's wouldn't correct prescriptions unless they were given a stamped addressed envelope ........ when the alternative was to send the patient back to swear at the receptionist .....I would concur.Nigel_Foremain said:
I find this type of conversation astonishing. Why should it be a bad thing that the scientists get recognition, financial or otherwise? What is wrong with pharma companies making profits that go into all our pension and investment funds? It seems in some peoples eyes the only people that have any virtue are those working for the public sector and particularly the NHS.Malmesbury said:
I don't think you have to worry about the financial health of the scientists involved. They will all be nobly accepting all kinds of nominal positions at various companies. so that said companies can have their bio on their websites.Philip_Thompson said:
Scientists working for companies seeking to make a profit, yes. Again with the sole exception of Oxford/AZN.Jonathan said:
Strip out the scientists and see how you get on. This is primarily a triumph of science, then government logistics. Capitalism played a supporting role and has largely been suspended whilst governments expedite funding.Philip_Thompson said:
Yeah capitalism played no role, that's why state run institutions have produced the vaccine instead of companies. Oh no, wait, no that's not true.Jonathan said:
To attribute the vaccine to capitalism is wrong. First and foremost it was science, then it was the purchasing and logistical power of government to focus on an urgent goal, then somewhere down the line capitalism played a role along with Dolly Parton.SouthamObserver said:
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Capitalism produced all the western vaccines apart from arguably Oxford/AZN.
Pfizer, Moderna, J&J - these aren't nationalised institutions.
I may disappoint them to know that some of the greediest and self serving individuals I have ever come across in my working life are not in the private sector but work as hospital doctors, and I don't think GPs are much better.
This does not mean they are all like it before some of you start virtue signalling, just that there is a similar proportion of such people as there are in other walks of life. There are a number of doctors who want the very nice NHS consultants salary, their huge pensions, the private practice income and also claim ownership of patents that they develop while working for the NHS (though the latter practice has become harder for the hard pressed souls).
"Greed" whatever that is, is not confined to the private sector
In my experience members of all professions, except possibly the clergy can be motivated by money over ethics.0 -
Wasn't this explained as TwatterBollocks yesterday?CarlottaVance said:0 -
I can actually think of a number of ways that Johnson and Corbyn are the same. London based. Larger than life. Popular with activist base in the party. Have been divorced.NickPalmer said:
I actually met a voter who said "They're all the same" in 2019 about Johnson and Corbyn! I said, "Honestly, what do we have to do to persuade you we're different??" She mumbled grumpily and closed the door.bigjohnowls said:
Our Canvassers have seen the return of "They're all the same" that disappeared in 2017 and 20190 -
I would accept that Johnson is entitled to the credit for anything that goes well on his watch, but please don't attribute personal credit where it is not dueMarqueeMark said:
But for now, he has tens of thousands of lives in the bank, saved by his vaccine procurement and roll-out.....CorrectHorseBattery said:Just as BoJo seems to be learning, it is back to form: https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1374458343226404871.
One day he's going to get somebody killed.
As to the excess deaths issue, it is crass to suggest Johnson is directly responsible for the expired lives of 126,000 people from Covid, although as their deaths occurred on his watch, the buck stops with him. That said, there is an argument to be made that some deaths could have been preventable if Johnson has not "personally" ignored Dominic Cummings' advice for a September lockdown. That is for the enquiry.0 -
If you really want to reductio ad absurdem, then I suggest you wonder whether the healthy young man can, once settled, build a life here, pay taxes and contribute to our economy.Philip_Thompson said:
An estimated 1.35 billion people speak English, should we house them all?OldKingCole said:
It's more complex, isn't it. Many of those refugees have some connection with UK such as a relative here already. Others have some ability to speak English...... one of the worlds universal languages.Philip_Thompson said:
Something I agree with you on.Nigel_Foremain said:
It is of course populist politics, but it will have resonance. I regard myself as a centrist, but I do find it quite galling that anyone who is claiming to be fleeing persecution can travel through a number of perfectly safe states and then say, "actually I want to claim safety in a place much further away that also involves me risking my family in an inflatable".RochdalePioneers said:
The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.Scott_xP said:
I welcome refugees and migration in general. But we should be helping those in need, not those selfish/stupid/dangerous enough to be putting themselves or their family in dinghies from the hostile dangerous state of ... France.
There are millions of refugees in Turkey etc law-abidingly seeking refuge. I would agree with Turkey a straight swap, someone who comes in a dinghy in exchange for one or even two refugees from a camp.
One wonders why, when Patel's parents decided to leave Uganda, they came to Hertfordshire instead of their ancestral Gujerat.
Why should eg an English speaking impoverished woman or child refugee alone in Turkey who has a relative here be unable to come here but a healthy young man who has money to pay people smugglers for a ride in a dinghy across the Channel can make it?
There is nothing "generous" in prioritising people based on their willingness and ability to pay people smugglers.0 -
The question is how many MPs of any sort are queueing up to offer?eek said:
The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.RochdalePioneers said:
The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.Scott_xP said:
BTW there are more complications. An announcement recently opening the doors to millions of HK refugees was received without much comment either from left or right. So a straight 'racist' critique about Brexiteers etc won't quite do.
0 -
Can't they send another ship up to it, tie some ropes to it, and yank it off?Sandpit said:
https://twitter.com/GriffeyHilary/status/1374647950425612288Gallowgate said:Apparently the Ever Given had a power blackout during 50kmh winds while transversing the canal. The perfect storm...
BRB filling my car to the brim with petrol...
New image from the other side. It’s properly stuck, they’re going to need more than a few more diggers to get it out!0 -
@CarlottaVance the children are running the show...0
-
The Union will never go into a coalition with AfD. It's a complete non-starter.HYUFD said:
CDU, AFD and FDP on 46%, same as Greens, SPD and Linke, Soder CSU Leader must now surely replace CDU leader Laschet as Union candidateCarlottaVance said:1 -
Its not absurd and yes they can, that's called economic migration and we allow economic migration through other routes too.OldKingCole said:
If you really want to reductio ad absurdem, then I suggest you wonder whether the healthy young man can, once settled, build a life here, pay taxes and contribute to our economy.Philip_Thompson said:
An estimated 1.35 billion people speak English, should we house them all?OldKingCole said:
It's more complex, isn't it. Many of those refugees have some connection with UK such as a relative here already. Others have some ability to speak English...... one of the worlds universal languages.Philip_Thompson said:
Something I agree with you on.Nigel_Foremain said:
It is of course populist politics, but it will have resonance. I regard myself as a centrist, but I do find it quite galling that anyone who is claiming to be fleeing persecution can travel through a number of perfectly safe states and then say, "actually I want to claim safety in a place much further away that also involves me risking my family in an inflatable".RochdalePioneers said:
The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.Scott_xP said:
I welcome refugees and migration in general. But we should be helping those in need, not those selfish/stupid/dangerous enough to be putting themselves or their family in dinghies from the hostile dangerous state of ... France.
There are millions of refugees in Turkey etc law-abidingly seeking refuge. I would agree with Turkey a straight swap, someone who comes in a dinghy in exchange for one or even two refugees from a camp.
One wonders why, when Patel's parents decided to leave Uganda, they came to Hertfordshire instead of their ancestral Gujerat.
Why should eg an English speaking impoverished woman or child refugee alone in Turkey who has a relative here be unable to come here but a healthy young man who has money to pay people smugglers for a ride in a dinghy across the Channel can make it?
There is nothing "generous" in prioritising people based on their willingness and ability to pay people smugglers.
If you want economic migration then getting the highly skilled or those with skill shortages here is best.
If you want to be kind then legitimate refugees from camps is best.
In no way is selection by people smugglers best. Or do you think people smugglers risking people's lives are the best means of migration?1 -
They have - every tug boat they can find.tlg86 said:
Can't they send another ship up to it, tie some ropes to it, and yank it off?Sandpit said:
https://twitter.com/GriffeyHilary/status/1374647950425612288Gallowgate said:Apparently the Ever Given had a power blackout during 50kmh winds while transversing the canal. The perfect storm...
BRB filling my car to the brim with petrol...
New image from the other side. It’s properly stuck, they’re going to need more than a few more diggers to get it out!
It won't solve anything unless they can unground it by either removing sand or removing weight from the boat.
The boat needs to float and currently it isn't..1 -
They aren't asylum seekers. Those are the ones who come here on dinghies to simultaneously take all the jobs AND claim benefits. An announcement about HK *possible* migrants hasn't remotely cut through onto people's consciousness. Yet.algarkirk said:
The question is how many MPs of any sort are queueing up to offer?eek said:
The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.RochdalePioneers said:
The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.Scott_xP said:
BTW there are more complications. An announcement recently opening the doors to millions of HK refugees was received without much comment either from left or right. So a straight 'racist' critique about Brexiteers etc won't quite do.2 -
What a horrible thought....tlg86 said:
Can't they send another ship up to it, tie some ropes to it, and yank it off?Sandpit said:
https://twitter.com/GriffeyHilary/status/1374647950425612288Gallowgate said:Apparently the Ever Given had a power blackout during 50kmh winds while transversing the canal. The perfect storm...
BRB filling my car to the brim with petrol...
New image from the other side. It’s properly stuck, they’re going to need more than a few more diggers to get it out!0 -
"Harry and Meghan's new strategist has revealed that she realised she was racist after marrying her black husband.
Genevieve Roth believes that all white people are 'rife with internalised racism and unconscious bias'."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9395755/Marrying-husband-realise-racist-Harry-Meghans-new-strategist-says.html#comments0 -
I think a coalition that doesn't even have a majority in parliament is definitely not going to happen in Germany. No way. Even single-faction minority government is extremely unlikely (not that any single faction is likely to get near a majority anyway).tlg86 said:
But the union and Greens might not get an outright majority between them. Could you see them governing as a minority administration? It's one thing for a single party just short of a majority to govern, quite another for a coalition to do so.kamski said:
Theoretically possible, but the SPD really didn't want to stay in government as junior partners last time around so I would say very unlikely. On the current polling numbers Union + the Greens is easily the most likely coalition. Where it gets more interesting is if the Greens end up being the largest party.tlg86 said:Thinking about it, could CDU/CSU, SPD and FDP work if they get over 50% between them? It's the Greens that the FDP don't like, isn't it?
But when you look at these polls remember there are 6-8% for parties that won't meet the threshold and so won't get into parliament. Therefore parties that get 47 or 48% between them will get a slim majority, so pretty likely that Union+Greens will get a majority.
But there are a number of other possibilities - the only one that doesn't include the Greens would be like you suggest Union-SPD-FDP. It seems unlikely. Worth nothing that in the Bundesländer the FDP are currently in 3 coalitions:
NRW: CDU, FDP
Rheinland Pfalz: SPD, FDP, Greens
Schleswig Holstein: CDU, Greens, FDP
current coalitions can be found here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_of_Germany
Greens (SPD too) are currently in coalitions at the state level with all the other parties except the AfD, which no other party will work with. (CDU/CSU and FDP won't work with die Linke either)
The Greens are the major partner only in Baden-Württemburg, where the CDU are junior partners.
Of course there are different issues at national level, and it's different being part of a coalition that includes the Greens, to being part of a coalition led by the Greens. But the biggest block last time around for the FDP (or reason given for crashing the coalition negotiations) was immigration, which isn't so much of issue now, so I wouldn't rule out the FDP being part of a coalition with the Greens at the federal level despite the differences.1
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