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Johnson’s vaccine polling boost seems to be dissipating – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Apparently the Ever Given had a power blackout during 50kmh winds while transversing the canal. The perfect storm...

    BRB filling my car to the brim with petrol...

    https://twitter.com/GriffeyHilary/status/1374647950425612288
    New image from the other side. It’s properly stuck, they’re going to need more than a few more diggers to get it out!
    Small but significant chance that this will become a huge story, including about petrol supplies etc.
    Very much so. The detour around that blockage is something like 10 days’ sailing for most large vessels. Pretty much every co trainer ship and oil tanker ship from Asia and the ME heading to Europe, goes through the Suez Canal.

    It’s been stuck for about a day so far, if the canal isn’t reopened for a couple of days more there will be a massive knock-on effect on worldwide shipping. By the weekend this will be the biggest global news story.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    It is of course populist politics, but it will have resonance. I regard myself as a centrist, but I do find it quite galling that anyone who is claiming to be fleeing persecution can travel through a number of perfectly safe states and then say, "actually I want to claim safety in a place much further away that also involves me risking my family in an inflatable".
    Something I agree with you on.

    I welcome refugees and migration in general. But we should be helping those in need, not those selfish/stupid/dangerous enough to be putting themselves or their family in dinghies from the hostile dangerous state of ... France.

    There are millions of refugees in Turkey etc law-abidingly seeking refuge. I would agree with Turkey a straight swap, someone who comes in a dinghy in exchange for one or even two refugees from a camp.
    It's more complex, isn't it. Many of those refugees have some connection with UK such as a relative here already. Others have some ability to speak English...... one of the worlds universal languages.

    One wonders why, when Patel's parents decided to leave Uganda, they came to Hertfordshire instead of their ancestral Gujerat.
    An estimated 1.35 billion people speak English, should we house them all?

    Why should eg an English speaking impoverished woman or child refugee alone in Turkey who has a relative here be unable to come here but a healthy young man who has money to pay people smugglers for a ride in a dinghy across the Channel can make it?

    There is nothing "generous" in prioritising people based on their willingness and ability to pay people smugglers.
    If you really want to reductio ad absurdem, then I suggest you wonder whether the healthy young man can, once settled, build a life here, pay taxes and contribute to our economy.
    Its not absurd and yes they can, that's called economic migration and we allow economic migration through other routes too.

    If you want economic migration then getting the highly skilled or those with skill shortages here is best.

    If you want to be kind then legitimate refugees from camps is best.

    In no way is selection by people smugglers best. Or do you think people smugglers risking people's lives are the best means of migration?
    the issue is we don't need uneducated men - we have enough of those already, the only economic migrants we need (hey being honest the only migrants we need) are people who fill in skill shortages.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Apparently the Ever Given had a power blackout during 50kmh winds while transversing the canal. The perfect storm...

    BRB filling my car to the brim with petrol...

    https://twitter.com/GriffeyHilary/status/1374647950425612288
    New image from the other side. It’s properly stuck, they’re going to need more than a few more diggers to get it out!
    Can't they send another ship up to it, tie some ropes to it, and yank it off?
    They have - every tug boat they can fine.

    It won't solve anything unless they can unground it by either removing sand or removing weight from the boat.

    The boat needs to float and currently it isn't..
    Oh dear, not looking good then!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.
    The question is how many MPs of any sort are queueing up to offer?

    BTW there are more complications. An announcement recently opening the doors to millions of HK refugees was received without much comment either from left or right. So a straight 'racist' critique about Brexiteers etc won't quite do.

    They aren't asylum seekers. Those are the ones who come here on dinghies to simultaneously take all the jobs AND claim benefits. An announcement about HK *possible* migrants hasn't remotely cut through onto people's consciousness. Yet.
    People in this country are generous and don't mind legitimate migration.

    People flying legally from HK, or being flown from refugee camps in Turkey to be resettled in the UK is not objected to.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,450

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.
    The question is how many MPs of any sort are queueing up to offer?

    BTW there are more complications. An announcement recently opening the doors to millions of HK refugees was received without much comment either from left or right. So a straight 'racist' critique about Brexiteers etc won't quite do.

    They aren't asylum seekers. Those are the ones who come here on dinghies to simultaneously take all the jobs AND claim benefits. An announcement about HK *possible* migrants hasn't remotely cut through onto people's consciousness. Yet.
    Couple of plane-loads at Stansted should stir things up.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,865
    Anthony Eden must be partying somewhere in the afterlife.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,450
    edited March 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    "Harry and Meghan's new strategist has revealed that she realised she was racist after marrying her black husband.

    Genevieve Roth believes that all white people are 'rife with internalised racism and unconscious bias'."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9395755/Marrying-husband-realise-racist-Harry-Meghans-new-strategist-says.html#comments

    There's something about humans which worries them about 'different'. Must originate from competition with Neanderthals and Denisovians etc.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397
    edited March 2021
    The 2 countries that understand all pharmaceutical production will leave the EU very quickly if they aren't careful are telling the other countries to not be so stupid.

    Can't see it working.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    CDU, AFD and FDP on 46%, same as Greens, SPD and Linke, Soder CSU Leader must now surely replace CDU leader Laschet as Union candidate
    The Union will never go into a coalition with AfD. It's a complete non-starter.
    This is correct. Well "never" is a long time, but there's certainly zero possibility of it happening any time soon.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.
    It's not so nice, what she's proposin, but I imagine it will play well. It strikes me that the Red Wallers, with the disproportionate influence the electoral maths of GE19 has delivered unto them, are like the DUP were after GE17. In which case they would do well to remember what Boris Johnson said about an Irish Sea border (never never never) and contrast it with what he did (agreed to one).
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Write up of @SpinningHugo's explanation of what the Commission have got wrong and haven't got a legal leg to stand on:

    What each counterparty is entitled to is the doses that AstraZeneca succeeds, using best reasonable efforts, in producing under its contract. A metaphor is that each is buying a place in a production queue [Flow]. Neither was buying doses current in existence [Stock].

    The metaphor of the queue is however somewhat misleading. It implies that the Commission is having to wait behind the United Kingdom. This is wrong. In fact, the Commission (and other parties) are benefitting from the earlier development and ramp up of production that occurred because of the United Kingdom’s contractual arrangements. Far from being prejudiced by the United Kingdom’s actions, the Commission and others have benefitted from it.


    https://truthonthemarket.com/2021/03/24/understanding-the-european-commissions-dispute-with-astrazeneca/

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Apparently the Ever Given had a power blackout during 50kmh winds while transversing the canal. The perfect storm...

    BRB filling my car to the brim with petrol...

    https://twitter.com/GriffeyHilary/status/1374647950425612288
    New image from the other side. It’s properly stuck, they’re going to need more than a few more diggers to get it out!
    Can't they send another ship up to it, tie some ropes to it, and yank it off?
    They have - every tug boat they can find.

    It won't solve anything unless they can unground it by either removing sand or removing weight from the boat.

    The boat needs to float and currently it isn't..
    Every tug boat and dredger in Egypt is currently heading down there!

    If they have to start unloading it with a crane boat, it could take a week or more to get enough weight off, one container at a time!
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,796

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.
    The question is how many MPs of any sort are queueing up to offer?

    BTW there are more complications. An announcement recently opening the doors to millions of HK refugees was received without much comment either from left or right. So a straight 'racist' critique about Brexiteers etc won't quite do.

    They aren't asylum seekers. Those are the ones who come here on dinghies to simultaneously take all the jobs AND claim benefits. An announcement about HK *possible* migrants hasn't remotely cut through onto people's consciousness. Yet.
    People in this country are generous and don't mind legitimate migration.

    People flying legally from HK, or being flown from refugee camps in Turkey to be resettled in the UK is not objected to.
    That might be true for you Philip, but you are being rather generous about your fellow humans
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,450

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.
    The question is how many MPs of any sort are queueing up to offer?

    BTW there are more complications. An announcement recently opening the doors to millions of HK refugees was received without much comment either from left or right. So a straight 'racist' critique about Brexiteers etc won't quite do.

    They aren't asylum seekers. Those are the ones who come here on dinghies to simultaneously take all the jobs AND claim benefits. An announcement about HK *possible* migrants hasn't remotely cut through onto people's consciousness. Yet.
    People in this country are generous and don't mind legitimate migration.

    People flying legally from HK, or being flown from refugee camps in Turkey to be resettled in the UK is not objected to.
    People created enough fuss about hard-working Poles.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227
    The secret stash story is back.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/eu-showdown-looms-with-uk-over-30-million-astrazeneca-doses-1.4518387

    Seems a little overegged in most ways.

    My questions:

    1 - How many of these are contractually UK vaccine?
    2 - Which factory NL or BE?
    3 - What is the balance between "stockpile" and "stock?
    4 - How long is the fill and finish process? eg do they have to sit?
    5 - How many are held there because they have not been drawn into a JIT supply chain?
    6 - Does this mean we have discovered the Australian Pirate Treasure that the EU Commissioner lost?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Just read a report that the serious flooding around Sydney is twice the size of the UK and waterfalls are flowing off Uluru (Ayers Rock)

    From Uluru!? 😲😱

    That is truly shocking.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    MattW said:

    The secret stash story is back.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/eu-showdown-looms-with-uk-over-30-million-astrazeneca-doses-1.4518387

    Seems a little overegged in most ways.

    My questions:

    1 - How many of these are contractually UK vaccine?
    2 - Which factory NL or BE?
    3 - What is the balance between "stockpile" and "stock?
    4 - How long is the fill and finish process? eg do they have to sit?
    5 - How many are held there because they have not been drawn into a JIT supply chain?
    6 - Does this mean we have discovered the Australian Pirate Treasure that the EU Commissioner lost?

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1374660866243715075?s=20
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.
    The question is how many MPs of any sort are queueing up to offer?

    BTW there are more complications. An announcement recently opening the doors to millions of HK refugees was received without much comment either from left or right. So a straight 'racist' critique about Brexiteers etc won't quite do.

    They aren't asylum seekers. Those are the ones who come here on dinghies to simultaneously take all the jobs AND claim benefits. An announcement about HK *possible* migrants hasn't remotely cut through onto people's consciousness. Yet.
    People in this country are generous and don't mind legitimate migration.

    People flying legally from HK, or being flown from refugee camps in Turkey to be resettled in the UK is not objected to.
    People created enough fuss about hard-working Poles.
    Why are you bringing economic migration into a debate about asylum?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,227
    edited March 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Reapers don't conform to STANAG 4671 so they cannot be operated in civvie airspace. They are also based in Akrotiri so it's a bit of a long transit to get on station over Bournemouth.

    MQ-9B Protector can but they aren't arriving until 2023.
    Someone stirring.

    That drone photo is not in the newspaper story.
    Politics for all has put amusing embellishments into other tweets too - the picture of the Beirut explosion into the "Bomb Bristol" story for instance.
    Named and shamed. Quite right too.
    That could be awkward.

    Dog out of control is now quite serious.

    Up to unlimited fine / 6 months.

    An for a law type.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 705

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.
    The question is how many MPs of any sort are queueing up to offer?

    BTW there are more complications. An announcement recently opening the doors to millions of HK refugees was received without much comment either from left or right. So a straight 'racist' critique about Brexiteers etc won't quite do.

    They aren't asylum seekers. Those are the ones who come here on dinghies to simultaneously take all the jobs AND claim benefits. An announcement about HK *possible* migrants hasn't remotely cut through onto people's consciousness. Yet.
    Couple of plane-loads at Stansted should stir things up.
    My (ethnically Chinese) other half left Hong Kong with his parents in 1997 when he was six. He has serious misgivings about the new BNO immigration rules. Not endorsing his views just relaying them because I think his perspective is interesting.

    Partly I think this is a sense of unfairness. His parents had no right to live in the UK where they wanted to go so ended up in Canada. He's been in the UK 11 years now and thousands and thousands of pounds later he's only just been granted permanent residence.

    He also thinks that most of the older people who might come over have spent a long time in Hong Kong enjoying the benefits of low taxation and periodic financial gifts from the authorities. Again I think he feels a sense of unfairness that older émigrés saw the writing on the wall ages ago and made huge sacrifices to up sticks and leave.

    Also having grown up in heavily Chinese enclaves in Canada he worries about how well such a potentially large group would integrate.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kjh said:

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.
    The question is how many MPs of any sort are queueing up to offer?

    BTW there are more complications. An announcement recently opening the doors to millions of HK refugees was received without much comment either from left or right. So a straight 'racist' critique about Brexiteers etc won't quite do.

    They aren't asylum seekers. Those are the ones who come here on dinghies to simultaneously take all the jobs AND claim benefits. An announcement about HK *possible* migrants hasn't remotely cut through onto people's consciousness. Yet.
    People in this country are generous and don't mind legitimate migration.

    People flying legally from HK, or being flown from refugee camps in Turkey to be resettled in the UK is not objected to.
    That might be true for you Philip, but you are being rather generous about your fellow humans
    There'll be some extremists but they're a teeny, tiny minority.

    There's a reason why the people on dinghies or lorries create the outrage when an order of magnitude more people get asylum into this country from legitimate routes.

    There's a reason why there's been no outrage regarding Hong Kong.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited March 2021
    Jonathan said:

    Boris Johnson, what an arsehole.

    Forget all these roundabout best PM questions 'Who would you rather have a drink with...... Who would you trust in a crisis...... Who better understands people like me........'

    Instead one simple agree /disagree question that covers everything..........that's perfect
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.
    The question is how many MPs of any sort are queueing up to offer?

    BTW there are more complications. An announcement recently opening the doors to millions of HK refugees was received without much comment either from left or right. So a straight 'racist' critique about Brexiteers etc won't quite do.

    They aren't asylum seekers. Those are the ones who come here on dinghies to simultaneously take all the jobs AND claim benefits. An announcement about HK *possible* migrants hasn't remotely cut through onto people's consciousness. Yet.
    People in this country are generous and don't mind legitimate migration.

    People flying legally from HK, or being flown from refugee camps in Turkey to be resettled in the UK is not objected to.
    People created enough fuss about hard-working Poles.
    Poles sought asylum?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314
    He's right.

    Not that it will do him or his party much good.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,450
    tlg86 said:

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.
    The question is how many MPs of any sort are queueing up to offer?

    BTW there are more complications. An announcement recently opening the doors to millions of HK refugees was received without much comment either from left or right. So a straight 'racist' critique about Brexiteers etc won't quite do.

    They aren't asylum seekers. Those are the ones who come here on dinghies to simultaneously take all the jobs AND claim benefits. An announcement about HK *possible* migrants hasn't remotely cut through onto people's consciousness. Yet.
    People in this country are generous and don't mind legitimate migration.

    People flying legally from HK, or being flown from refugee camps in Turkey to be resettled in the UK is not objected to.
    People created enough fuss about hard-working Poles.
    Why are you bringing economic migration into a debate about asylum?
    I was replying to Philip Thompson's comment about generosity and legitimacy.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    tlg86 said:

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.
    The question is how many MPs of any sort are queueing up to offer?

    BTW there are more complications. An announcement recently opening the doors to millions of HK refugees was received without much comment either from left or right. So a straight 'racist' critique about Brexiteers etc won't quite do.

    They aren't asylum seekers. Those are the ones who come here on dinghies to simultaneously take all the jobs AND claim benefits. An announcement about HK *possible* migrants hasn't remotely cut through onto people's consciousness. Yet.
    People in this country are generous and don't mind legitimate migration.

    People flying legally from HK, or being flown from refugee camps in Turkey to be resettled in the UK is not objected to.
    People created enough fuss about hard-working Poles.
    Why are you bringing economic migration into a debate about asylum?
    I was replying to Philip Thompson's comment about generosity and legitimacy.
    Yes, we accept tens of thousands of asylum seekers per year but the ones objected to are not the tens of thousands, its the hundreds or thousands coming through dangerous routes.

    The solution to this crisis is the same one David Cameron came up in 2015. Fly legitimate asylum seekers direct from Turkey etc, rather than some sort of Darwinian survival of the fittest of whoever can make it here of their own accord.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    NEW THREAD
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314
    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone know how reliant the Greek and Spanish economies usually are on British tourism? It could be a difficult year for them if the answer is very much.

    I imagine the precise value of British tourists to countries within the EU is being shared by our diplomats in those countries with those countries' governments and the EU Commission right now.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,796

    kjh said:

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.
    The question is how many MPs of any sort are queueing up to offer?

    BTW there are more complications. An announcement recently opening the doors to millions of HK refugees was received without much comment either from left or right. So a straight 'racist' critique about Brexiteers etc won't quite do.

    They aren't asylum seekers. Those are the ones who come here on dinghies to simultaneously take all the jobs AND claim benefits. An announcement about HK *possible* migrants hasn't remotely cut through onto people's consciousness. Yet.
    People in this country are generous and don't mind legitimate migration.

    People flying legally from HK, or being flown from refugee camps in Turkey to be resettled in the UK is not objected to.
    That might be true for you Philip, but you are being rather generous about your fellow humans
    There'll be some extremists but they're a teeny, tiny minority.

    There's a reason why the people on dinghies or lorries create the outrage when an order of magnitude more people get asylum into this country from legitimate routes.

    There's a reason why there's been no outrage regarding Hong Kong.
    The reason is it hasn't happened yet. People react to things actually happening (or they imagine happening hyped by the Daily Mail and social media).

    As I said I think you are being generous about your fellow man. I do not for one second believe it is a 'teeny tiny minority' unfortunately. Unfortunately the population has a significant number of bigots.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    Andy_JS said:
    Interesting that for Britain the excess death second peak is smaller than the first one, which is not the same as the graph of Covid deaths: that seems to imply that some other deaths ('flu?) were being prevented thus reducing the overall effect.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    It is of course populist politics, but it will have resonance. I regard myself as a centrist, but I do find it quite galling that anyone who is claiming to be fleeing persecution can travel through a number of perfectly safe states and then say, "actually I want to claim safety in a place much further away that also involves me risking my family in an inflatable".
    Something I agree with you on.

    I welcome refugees and migration in general. But we should be helping those in need, not those selfish/stupid/dangerous enough to be putting themselves or their family in dinghies from the hostile dangerous state of ... France.

    There are millions of refugees in Turkey etc law-abidingly seeking refuge. I would agree with Turkey a straight swap, someone who comes in a dinghy in exchange for one or even two refugees from a camp.
    It's more complex, isn't it. Many of those refugees have some connection with UK such as a relative here already. Others have some ability to speak English...... one of the worlds universal languages.

    One wonders why, when Patel's parents decided to leave Uganda, they came to Hertfordshire instead of making for their ancestral Gujerat.
    Your first point is correct, but that does not make it right as a basis of asylum policy. If a person is fleeing persecution it makes sense to me that asylum should be applied for in the first safe country the asylum seeker enters. If they then wish to apply to another country it is up to them to do it from their asylum base as an economic migrant, which is perfectly honourable. I am no frothing right winger, but it makes sense to discourage people from thinking they can travel through numerous safe countries on their way here, and if this is discouraged it may disincentivise the traffickers
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Breaking: surprise drop in inflation to 0.4%

    Food is getting cheaper, apparently, along with clothes and shoes. Suggestions there is discounting to encourage sales during lockdown (and also that the ONS is having to 'guess' prices where services are closed)

    I would not be surprised if some food grown, caught or whatever in and around UK became cheaper fo a while, as the growers, catchers etc try to get rid of it. Once those involved realise though that UK is their only market some of them will go off and try to do something else.
    How much shellfish can, or will, we eat? Same with lamb.
    There's definitely discounting to encourage sales going on - a lot of it through sites like Quidco. They're regularly making quite significant short-term cashback offers now, such as 20% off (via cashback) at Pets at Home last Friday, 10% at Booking.com at the weekend, 10% at B%Q yesterday. And retailers like Clarks shoes seem on permanent sale.
    Perhaps retailers are trying to keep a steady demand for online sales to match their capacity?

    And discounting via cashback offers probably doesn't get reflected in RPI.
    I have been doing some buying for the house and pretty much everywhere offers a discount on your first order.

    Speak out against the state’s prejudiced prosecution of militant industrial action? Bit too controversial I’m afraid, might piss off the red tops.

    50 years ago you say?
    Hard work already done you say?
    That funny bloke off The Royle Family you say?

    Let’s go for it!

    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1374374378738130956?s=21

    Worth noting that the police/prosecution failures were the same as have happened more recently ie disclosure failures, destruction of evidence and making stuff up. All those lessons learned, eh!
    Scott_xP said:
    If people are granted asylum they cannot be removed. Why does the Home Office come out with stuff that they must know is blatantly untrue?
  • Just read a report that the serious flooding around Sydney is twice the size of the UK and waterfalls are flowing off Uluru (Ayers Rock)

    From Uluru!? 😲😱

    That is truly shocking.
    I have watched the video from Uluru and it is amazing

    When we visited Uluru could not imagine rain at anytime and it was 110 (44) in Alice Springs
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,450

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    It is of course populist politics, but it will have resonance. I regard myself as a centrist, but I do find it quite galling that anyone who is claiming to be fleeing persecution can travel through a number of perfectly safe states and then say, "actually I want to claim safety in a place much further away that also involves me risking my family in an inflatable".
    Something I agree with you on.

    I welcome refugees and migration in general. But we should be helping those in need, not those selfish/stupid/dangerous enough to be putting themselves or their family in dinghies from the hostile dangerous state of ... France.

    There are millions of refugees in Turkey etc law-abidingly seeking refuge. I would agree with Turkey a straight swap, someone who comes in a dinghy in exchange for one or even two refugees from a camp.
    It's more complex, isn't it. Many of those refugees have some connection with UK such as a relative here already. Others have some ability to speak English...... one of the worlds universal languages.

    One wonders why, when Patel's parents decided to leave Uganda, they came to Hertfordshire instead of making for their ancestral Gujerat.
    Your first point is correct, but that does not make it right as a basis of asylum policy. If a person is fleeing persecution it makes sense to me that asylum should be applied for in the first safe country the asylum seeker enters. If they then wish to apply to another country it is up to them to do it from their asylum base as an economic migrant, which is perfectly honourable. I am no frothing right winger, but it makes sense to discourage people from thinking they can travel through numerous safe countries on their way here, and if this is discouraged it may disincentivise the traffickers
    Thanks, and I don't necessarily disagree with your comment. I think I'm right in saying that France, Germany & Italy have accepted more migrants than the UK has, and only France and Italy are likely to be 'first countries". However I'm not entirely certain that adequate and/or accurate information is always available to the poor souls under discussion, and I think that a certain amount of leeway should be given them.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,475
    Andy_JS said:

    "Harry and Meghan's new strategist has revealed that she realised she was racist after marrying her black husband.

    Genevieve Roth believes that all white people are 'rife with internalised racism and unconscious bias'."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9395755/Marrying-husband-realise-racist-Harry-Meghans-new-strategist-says.html#comments

    Bit late to realise it afterwards.
  • algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.
    The question is how many MPs of any sort are queueing up to offer?

    BTW there are more complications. An announcement recently opening the doors to millions of HK refugees was received without much comment either from left or right. So a straight 'racist' critique about Brexiteers etc won't quite do.

    They aren't asylum seekers. Those are the ones who come here on dinghies to simultaneously take all the jobs AND claim benefits. An announcement about HK *possible* migrants hasn't remotely cut through onto people's consciousness. Yet.
    People in this country are generous and don't mind legitimate migration.

    People flying legally from HK, or being flown from refugee camps in Turkey to be resettled in the UK is not objected to.
    They might be in Cheshire. They are not in the red wall and rural areas. All of the migrants that the food industry relies in in east anglia are legally here. And yet shit kickers voted in large numbers to have Brexit because their towns are too forrin and they've taken all the jobs.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,380

    Pulpstar said:

    The danger for Labour is that conservative voters think they're "acceptable" without actually voting for them whilst the left deserts them for the greens or something.

    This is the perennial problem with Labour idealogues, they hate compromise more than they do the Conservatives. This is why they are content to see perpetual Johnson and disappointed at three terms of Blair.
    I am not content for a perpetual Boris but for now I am content that he continues in post and on Blair I voted for two of his three terms and was not at all disappointed when he left office
    Last time I looked you weren't a Corbynite Socialist.
  • Pulpstar said:

    The danger for Labour is that conservative voters think they're "acceptable" without actually voting for them whilst the left deserts them for the greens or something.

    This is the perennial problem with Labour idealogues, they hate compromise more than they do the Conservatives. This is why they are content to see perpetual Johnson and disappointed at three terms of Blair.
    I am not content for a perpetual Boris but for now I am content that he continues in post and on Blair I voted for two of his three terms and was not at all disappointed when he left office
    Last time I looked you weren't a Corbynite Socialist.
    Somebody forgot to put on their reading glasses!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,397

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    The Tories aren't thinking this through. They should invite newly elected Tory MPs in red wall seats to bid for the construction of the Gulag which political prisoners such as asylum seekers can he "housed" in. Money can be made in construction and operation of the facility as well as for small business people who can sell rotten shellfish we can't export to be hurled in hate at the walls.
    The Brexit seats voted to leave the EU because they didn't want foreigners. No red wall seat MP is going to willingly accept a asylum in their constituency.
    The question is how many MPs of any sort are queueing up to offer?

    BTW there are more complications. An announcement recently opening the doors to millions of HK refugees was received without much comment either from left or right. So a straight 'racist' critique about Brexiteers etc won't quite do.

    They aren't asylum seekers. Those are the ones who come here on dinghies to simultaneously take all the jobs AND claim benefits. An announcement about HK *possible* migrants hasn't remotely cut through onto people's consciousness. Yet.
    People in this country are generous and don't mind legitimate migration.

    People flying legally from HK, or being flown from refugee camps in Turkey to be resettled in the UK is not objected to.
    They might be in Cheshire. They are not in the red wall and rural areas. All of the migrants that the food industry relies in in east anglia are legally here. And yet shit kickers voted in large numbers to have Brexit because their towns are too forrin and they've taken all the jobs.
    Even though the locals didn't want those jobs anyway..
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,080

    Write up of @SpinningHugo's explanation of what the Commission have got wrong and haven't got a legal leg to stand on:

    What each counterparty is entitled to is the doses that AstraZeneca succeeds, using best reasonable efforts, in producing under its contract. A metaphor is that each is buying a place in a production queue [Flow]. Neither was buying doses current in existence [Stock].

    The metaphor of the queue is however somewhat misleading. It implies that the Commission is having to wait behind the United Kingdom. This is wrong. In fact, the Commission (and other parties) are benefitting from the earlier development and ramp up of production that occurred because of the United Kingdom’s contractual arrangements. Far from being prejudiced by the United Kingdom’s actions, the Commission and others have benefitted from it.


    https://truthonthemarket.com/2021/03/24/understanding-the-european-commissions-dispute-with-astrazeneca/

    Helpful article, thanks for posting the link.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Roger said:

    ydoethur said:



    Our Canvassers have seen the return of "They're all the same" that disappeared in 2017 and 2019

    I actually met a voter who said "They're all the same" in 2019 about Johnson and Corbyn! I said, "Honestly, what do we have to do to persuade you we're different??" She mumbled grumpily and closed the door.
    Well, quite. I mean it’s not like you had a leader from a posh background who pretends to be a friend to ordinary people, who makes racist remarks, who is lazy, disorganised and not very bright, and is a love rat famous for spending money he hasn’t got on things he doesn’t need.

    That anyone would think Labour was the same as the Tories is just amazing.
    That is a post that will make no sense to anybody but will get applause from those who would wish it to be true.
    Hate to break it to you, @Roger, but it is. Corbyn is very little different from Johnson. The fact that you and other lefties dare not admit that is your problem.

    As for the abuse about ‘no sense,’ I can only conclude if you typed that with a straight face you’ve never read one of your own posts.
This discussion has been closed.