Johnson’s vaccine polling boost seems to be dissipating – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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If there isn't a vaccine effect in the polls, things are worse for Labour than they might appear.NickPalmer said:
I've done a fair amount (in Surrey, may not be typical). Reactions to Starmer range from "I don't honestly know" to "He seems quite good". I've yet to find any randomly-phoned voter who thinks he's wonderful or awful (and in fairness as a Corbynite I should say I'm getting quite a few "Well, a lot better than the last one"). Responses about Johnson are much more polarised - people often really approve or really disapprove.justin124 said:
Not on the same scale according to national polls. Many are still saying 'Don't Know' or are unaware of him. In which area has this phone canvassing been taking place?bigjohnowls said:
Have you been doing any phone canvassing?
SKS very unpopular too apparently
Overall my impression is that Labour has picked up somewhat on 2019, but apathy is rampant - most people are just not thinking about politics AT ALL. Nor are they linking the pandemic to politics - I'm not meeting people planning to vote for the Tories to thank them for the vaccines, or against them because of the early mistakes- it's all seen as a bit like an earthquake, not part of normal politics.
After pressure from the local authority, we now have 35% signed up for PVs vs 20% before, but I expect a low poll. Who will that benefit? The Tories, I'd think, because they will probably still have a higher share of the postals.
But I think the effect works indirectly. Rather than people rationalising that "I got the vaccine so I will vote Tory to thank the government" it's a mix of responding badly to criticism of the government as it struggles with a major crisis, and an optimism effect reflecting on the government indirectly.
The medium term question is whether, as we emerge from the pandemic, the government can both manage the longer term fallout in a way seen to be acceptable, and rise to the challenge of meeting what will be hopes for a better post-pandemic world.
If they return to spending cuts and duck most of the bigger issues - such as social care (which the PM promised he had solved way back) - they could get into trouble.0 -
There's definitely discounting to encourage sales going on - a lot of it through sites like Quidco. They're regularly making quite significant short-term cashback offers now, such as 20% off (via cashback) at Pets at Home last Friday, 10% at Booking.com at the weekend, 10% at B%Q yesterday. And retailers like Clarks shoes seem on permanent sale.OldKingCole said:
I would not be surprised if some food grown, caught or whatever in and around UK became cheaper fo a while, as the growers, catchers etc try to get rid of it. Once those involved realise though that UK is their only market some of them will go off and try to do something else.IanB2 said:Breaking: surprise drop in inflation to 0.4%
Food is getting cheaper, apparently, along with clothes and shoes. Suggestions there is discounting to encourage sales during lockdown (and also that the ONS is having to 'guess' prices where services are closed)
How much shellfish can, or will, we eat? Same with lamb.
Perhaps retailers are trying to keep a steady demand for online sales to match their capacity?
And discounting via cashback offers probably doesn't get reflected in RPI.0 -
Did he write that article himself or just take down a dictation? Utterly one sided perspectivewilliamglenn said:0 -
Boris Johnson has told Conservative MPs that the UK’s successful vaccine rollout was thanks to “greed” and “capitalism”.
Several of those present confirmed the prime minister had made the remarks during an end-of-term Zoom meeting with Tory backbenchers, known as the 1922 Committee, on Tuesday evening, two days before the Commons breaks for Easter.
Johnson hailed the fact that more than 28 million people have been given a first jab in the UK, saying: “The reason we have the vaccine success is because of capitalism, because of greed my friends.”
Immediately afterwards, he tried to backpedal and withdraw what he had said, according to MPs, one of whom added that the PM then made a joke about how details of the 1922 Committee virtual meetings often leak.
Downing Street has not denied the account but refused to issue a comment.0 -
The vaccine boost in the polls is very clear in the underlying numbers on government and individual minister performance, as well as economic confidence. These have all gone up very significantly since the start of the year.IanB2 said:
If there isn't a vaccine effect in the polls, things are worse for Labour than they might appear.NickPalmer said:
I've done a fair amount (in Surrey, may not be typical). Reactions to Starmer range from "I don't honestly know" to "He seems quite good". I've yet to find any randomly-phoned voter who thinks he's wonderful or awful (and in fairness as a Corbynite I should say I'm getting quite a few "Well, a lot better than the last one"). Responses about Johnson are much more polarised - people often really approve or really disapprove.justin124 said:
Not on the same scale according to national polls. Many are still saying 'Don't Know' or are unaware of him. In which area has this phone canvassing been taking place?bigjohnowls said:
Have you been doing any phone canvassing?
SKS very unpopular too apparently
Overall my impression is that Labour has picked up somewhat on 2019, but apathy is rampant - most people are just not thinking about politics AT ALL. Nor are they linking the pandemic to politics - I'm not meeting people planning to vote for the Tories to thank them for the vaccines, or against them because of the early mistakes- it's all seen as a bit like an earthquake, not part of normal politics.
After pressure from the local authority, we now have 35% signed up for PVs vs 20% before, but I expect a low poll. Who will that benefit? The Tories, I'd think, because they will probably still have a higher share of the postals.
But I think the effect works indirectly. Rather than people rationalising that "I got the vaccine so I will vote Tory to thank the government" it's a mix of responding badly to criticism of the government as it struggles with a major crisis, and an optimism effect reflecting on the government indirectly.
The medium term question is whether, as we emerge from the pandemic, the government can both manage the longer term fallout in a way seen to be acceptable, and rise to the challenge of meeting what will be hopes for a better post-pandemic world.
If they return to spending cuts and duck most of the bigger issues - such as social care (which the PM promised he had solved way back) - they could get into trouble.
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From LauraIanB2 said:Boris Johnson has told Conservative MPs that the UK’s successful vaccine rollout was thanks to “greed” and “capitalism”.
Several of those present confirmed the prime minister had made the remarks during an end-of-term Zoom meeting with Tory backbenchers, known as the 1922 Committee, on Tuesday evening, two days before the Commons breaks for Easter.
Johnson hailed the fact that more than 28 million people have been given a first jab in the UK, saying: “The reason we have the vaccine success is because of capitalism, because of greed my friends.”
Immediately afterwards, he tried to backpedal and withdraw what he had said, according to MPs, one of whom added that the PM then made a joke about how details of the 1922 Committee virtual meetings often leak.
Downing Street has not denied the account but refused to issue a comment.
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1374487905280741385?s=191 -
Yes, all that stuff not being exported has to go somewhere.OldKingCole said:
I would not be surprised if some food grown, caught or whatever in and around UK became cheaper fo a while, as the growers, catchers etc try to get rid of it. Once those involved realise though that UK is their only market some of them will go off and try to do something else.IanB2 said:Breaking: surprise drop in inflation to 0.4%
Food is getting cheaper, apparently, along with clothes and shoes. Suggestions there is discounting to encourage sales during lockdown (and also that the ONS is having to 'guess' prices where services are closed)
How much shellfish can, or will, we eat? Same with lamb.
https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1373974501998915585?s=190 -
Is that the best they can come up with by way of excuse!Big_G_NorthWales said:
From LauraIanB2 said:Boris Johnson has told Conservative MPs that the UK’s successful vaccine rollout was thanks to “greed” and “capitalism”.
Several of those present confirmed the prime minister had made the remarks during an end-of-term Zoom meeting with Tory backbenchers, known as the 1922 Committee, on Tuesday evening, two days before the Commons breaks for Easter.
Johnson hailed the fact that more than 28 million people have been given a first jab in the UK, saying: “The reason we have the vaccine success is because of capitalism, because of greed my friends.”
Immediately afterwards, he tried to backpedal and withdraw what he had said, according to MPs, one of whom added that the PM then made a joke about how details of the 1922 Committee virtual meetings often leak.
Downing Street has not denied the account but refused to issue a comment.
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1374487905280741385?s=191 -
That chart is plain fantasy though. What we have all painfully learned is that vaccine supply is lumpy and inherently unpredictable. Suggesting that the EU will have a smooth 120m vaccines a month, month after month, suggests to me that whoever created it has no idea what they are talking about.kle4 said:
They shouldn't end up as far behind as currently feared. A focus on jabbing not jabbering would help with that.MattW said:Hmm. Crude maths in the chart, but interesting.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/13739483971918888983 -
That of course is why J&J are next in the cross-hairs for planning to back-load deliveries in Q2.DavidL said:
That chart is plain fantasy though. What we have all painfully learned is that vaccine supply is lumpy and inherently unpredictable. Suggesting that the EU will have a smooth 120m vaccines a month, month after month, suggests to me that whoever created it has no idea what they are talking about.kle4 said:
They shouldn't end up as far behind as currently feared. A focus on jabbing not jabbering would help with that.MattW said:Hmm. Crude maths in the chart, but interesting.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/13739483971918888980 -
We can eat a hell of a lot more when the pubs and restaurants are open again.....OldKingCole said:
I would not be surprised if some food grown, caught or whatever in and around UK became cheaper fo a while, as the growers, catchers etc try to get rid of it. Once those involved realise though that UK is their only market some of them will go off and try to do something else.IanB2 said:Breaking: surprise drop in inflation to 0.4%
Food is getting cheaper, apparently, along with clothes and shoes. Suggestions there is discounting to encourage sales during lockdown (and also that the ONS is having to 'guess' prices where services are closed)
How much shellfish can, or will, we eat? Same with lamb.1 -
Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.8
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Yes, I have booked a late autumn break with EasyJet holidays in Madeira at half the price it was 2 years ago. Vaccine passports should be running by then, and if not, EasyJet will be bankrupt.IanB2 said:
There's definitely discounting to encourage sales going on - a lot of it through sites like Quidco. They're regularly making quite significant short-term cashback offers now, such as 20% off (via cashback) at Pets at Home last Friday, 10% at Booking.com at the weekend, 10% at B%Q yesterday. And retailers like Clarks shoes seem on permanent sale.OldKingCole said:
I would not be surprised if some food grown, caught or whatever in and around UK became cheaper fo a while, as the growers, catchers etc try to get rid of it. Once those involved realise though that UK is their only market some of them will go off and try to do something else.IanB2 said:Breaking: surprise drop in inflation to 0.4%
Food is getting cheaper, apparently, along with clothes and shoes. Suggestions there is discounting to encourage sales during lockdown (and also that the ONS is having to 'guess' prices where services are closed)
How much shellfish can, or will, we eat? Same with lamb.
Perhaps retailers are trying to keep a steady demand for online sales to match their capacity?
And discounting via cashback offers probably doesn't get reflected in RPI.0 -
I imagine someone in the EU office with sets of draft legislation like a Poker Hand.Charles said:
Did he write that article himself or just take down a dictation? Utterly one sided perspectivewilliamglenn said:
This is about the third one they have played in the last week.
First it was "extend for 3 months", then "weekly not 3 monthly monitoring period". Now it is this.1 -
Boris Johnson, what an arsehole.1
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Perhaps. But the UK's vaccine rollout after an initial exponential growth period has for months now trended at a remarkably flat line.DavidL said:
That chart is plain fantasy though. What we have all painfully learned is that vaccine supply is lumpy and inherently unpredictable. Suggesting that the EU will have a smooth 120m vaccines a month, month after month, suggests to me that whoever created it has no idea what they are talking about.kle4 said:
They shouldn't end up as far behind as currently feared. A focus on jabbing not jabbering would help with that.MattW said:Hmm. Crude maths in the chart, but interesting.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1373948397191888898
It may be lumpy but it may average at those amounts.1 -
Just channeling his inner Gordon GekkoIanB2 said:Boris Johnson has told Conservative MPs that the UK’s successful vaccine rollout was thanks to “greed” and “capitalism”.
Several of those present confirmed the prime minister had made the remarks during an end-of-term Zoom meeting with Tory backbenchers, known as the 1922 Committee, on Tuesday evening, two days before the Commons breaks for Easter.
Johnson hailed the fact that more than 28 million people have been given a first jab in the UK, saying: “The reason we have the vaccine success is because of capitalism, because of greed my friends.”
Immediately afterwards, he tried to backpedal and withdraw what he had said, according to MPs, one of whom added that the PM then made a joke about how details of the 1922 Committee virtual meetings often leak.
Downing Street has not denied the account but refused to issue a comment.
"The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms — greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge — has marked the upward surge of mankind and greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA. Thank you very much"1 -
But until that point, the UK must be made to stop making the EU look bad.Foxy said:
For all the fuss, with so many vaccines working and in production, by the end of the summer the world will be awash with them.kle4 said:
They shouldn't end up as far behind as currently feared. A focus on jabbing not jabbering would help with that.MattW said:Hmm. Crude maths in the chart, but interesting.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1373948397191888898
By a series of measures that, er, make the EU look worse than its initial vaccine contracting SNAFU.
Genius.2 -
It's the way he tells 'em!Big_G_NorthWales said:
From LauraIanB2 said:Boris Johnson has told Conservative MPs that the UK’s successful vaccine rollout was thanks to “greed” and “capitalism”.
Several of those present confirmed the prime minister had made the remarks during an end-of-term Zoom meeting with Tory backbenchers, known as the 1922 Committee, on Tuesday evening, two days before the Commons breaks for Easter.
Johnson hailed the fact that more than 28 million people have been given a first jab in the UK, saying: “The reason we have the vaccine success is because of capitalism, because of greed my friends.”
Immediately afterwards, he tried to backpedal and withdraw what he had said, according to MPs, one of whom added that the PM then made a joke about how details of the 1922 Committee virtual meetings often leak.
Downing Street has not denied the account but refused to issue a comment.
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1374487905280741385?s=191 -
I've never bothered to follow Mr Johnson's spoken or written utterances, so I may be wrong in what I'm about to type. However, there does appear to me to be a slight saving grace about this, in that he recognised what a stupid thing he'd said very quickly and withdrew it.IanB2 said:
Is that the best they can come up with by way of excuse!Big_G_NorthWales said:
From LauraIanB2 said:Boris Johnson has told Conservative MPs that the UK’s successful vaccine rollout was thanks to “greed” and “capitalism”.
Several of those present confirmed the prime minister had made the remarks during an end-of-term Zoom meeting with Tory backbenchers, known as the 1922 Committee, on Tuesday evening, two days before the Commons breaks for Easter.
Johnson hailed the fact that more than 28 million people have been given a first jab in the UK, saying: “The reason we have the vaccine success is because of capitalism, because of greed my friends.”
Immediately afterwards, he tried to backpedal and withdraw what he had said, according to MPs, one of whom added that the PM then made a joke about how details of the 1922 Committee virtual meetings often leak.
Downing Street has not denied the account but refused to issue a comment.
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1374487905280741385?s=19
Is he in the habit of doing that, or is it a small step forward on the self-awareness front?
Good morning, everyone.0 -
Nevertheless it's poor phraseology by the PM, at a time when so many people are in real trouble - and the account of the meeting suggests he realised that straight away, trying to retract his remarks and someone making a joke about leaks.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
That Laura is helping with the damage limitation by trying to suggest it was a joke about someone eating a sandwich simply further dents her credibility as an independent source.2 -
It does seem that any American journalist who becomes their EU correspondent ends up with a very one sided viewpoint. Dave Keating is the another example where fact checking from the other side sees to be completely ignored.Charles said:
Did he write that article herself or just take down a dictation? Utterly one sided perspectivewilliamglenn said:
They seem to be almost embedded war journalists but without pointing out why their viewpoint is limited.2 -
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
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I could not agree more. I am a social democrat!Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
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Another new variant. It might explain why the numbers in India are taking off again.
https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1374628916552466434?s=190 -
Indeed, but shouldn't they have ambition to grow the supply? Which presumably can be done over that time scale with money? We don't yet know what the situation will be in September and if we might have to do it all again at twice the speed.Foxy said:
For all the fuss, with so many vaccines working and in production, by the end of the summer the world will be awash with them.kle4 said:
They shouldn't end up as far behind as currently feared. A focus on jabbing not jabbering would help with that.MattW said:Hmm. Crude maths in the chart, but interesting.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/13739483971918888980 -
That was more or less my thinking, although I was lacking the detailed information. Nevertheless it was not a good thing to say because it immediately landed him in the Need-to-explain zone.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
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Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended to get it out quickly.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
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That poll showing the public think Starmer unlikeable, indecisive and weak was only released yesterday!Roger said:
You can tell when ISAM's about. The same old poll of Starmer gets dusted down.Mexicanpete said:
Yawn! You'll be going on about charisma quotients next.isam said:I have heard of political analysts who think leader ratings are a better guide than VI
Have Tinder closed for the pandemic or something?
Still as sharp as ever Rog!!!1 -
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
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Interesting view.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended to get it out quickly.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
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The Conservative party and its supporters are always prone to hubris. None more so than Boris Johnson. It was a very stupid thing to say, but fundamentally he was right!AnneJGP said:
That was more or less my thinking, although I was lacking the detailed information. Nevertheless it was not a good thing to say because it immediately landed him in the Need-to-explain zone.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
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And yet what we are seeing is a surge in vaccine right now which is expected to fall for up to a month in a couple of weeks time slowing down the program. Our peak day was over 850k but we are averaging something like 400k. We have the capacity to do more but we don't have the stocks.Philip_Thompson said:
Perhaps. But the UK's vaccine rollout after an initial exponential growth period has for months now trended at a remarkably flat line.DavidL said:
That chart is plain fantasy though. What we have all painfully learned is that vaccine supply is lumpy and inherently unpredictable. Suggesting that the EU will have a smooth 120m vaccines a month, month after month, suggests to me that whoever created it has no idea what they are talking about.kle4 said:
They shouldn't end up as far behind as currently feared. A focus on jabbing not jabbering would help with that.MattW said:Hmm. Crude maths in the chart, but interesting.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1373948397191888898
It may be lumpy but it may average at those amounts.
There are many things that are just baffling about the EU effort but one of them is the failure by Member States to use what they have, to create the capacity to get vaccines into arms efficiently. The EU is starting to point the finger about this which, although it will hardly improve relations, may well contain a significant element of truth. And that is before the idiocy in Italy where prosecutors are seizing vaccine.0 -
To attribute the vaccine to capitalism is wrong. First and foremost it was science, then it was the purchasing and logistical power of government to focus on an urgent goal, then somewhere down the line capitalism played a role along with Dolly Parton.SouthamObserver said:
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
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No he really wasn’t.SouthamObserver said:
The Conservative party and its supporters are always prone to hubris. None more so than Boris Johnson. It was a very stupid thing to say, but fundamentally he was right!AnneJGP said:
That was more or less my thinking, although I was lacking the detailed information. Nevertheless it was not a good thing to say because it immediately landed him in the Need-to-explain zone.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
0 -
I have said all along that the biggest problem in vaccination will be the distribution and delivery infrastructure. The NHS has a very good system for this, but much of the world has a more fragmented retail health sector.DavidL said:
And yet what we are seeing is a surge in vaccine right now which is expected to fall for up to a month in a couple of weeks time slowing down the program. Our peak day was over 850k but we are averaging something like 400k. We have the capacity to do more but we don't have the stocks.Philip_Thompson said:
Perhaps. But the UK's vaccine rollout after an initial exponential growth period has for months now trended at a remarkably flat line.DavidL said:
That chart is plain fantasy though. What we have all painfully learned is that vaccine supply is lumpy and inherently unpredictable. Suggesting that the EU will have a smooth 120m vaccines a month, month after month, suggests to me that whoever created it has no idea what they are talking about.kle4 said:
They shouldn't end up as far behind as currently feared. A focus on jabbing not jabbering would help with that.MattW said:Hmm. Crude maths in the chart, but interesting.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1373948397191888898
It may be lumpy but it may average at those amounts.
There are many things that are just baffling about the EU effort but one of them is the failure by Member States to use what they have, to create the capacity to get vaccines into arms efficiently. The EU is starting to point the finger about this which, although it will hardly improve relations, may well contain a significant element of truth. And that is before the idiocy in Italy where prosecutors are seizing vaccine.1 -
0
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It wasn't science in abstract. As a social democrat, I celebrate the role of government in all this. I believe in the state as a powerful force for good. But as a social democrat, I do not see how it would have happened without the R&D structures, manufacturing capabilities and distribution networks that were ready to go because they were set up by companies that exist to make money.Jonathan said:
To attribute the vaccine to capitalism is wrong. First and foremost it was science, then it was the purchasing and logistical power of government to focus on an urgent goal, then somewhere down the line capitalism played a role along with Dolly Parton.SouthamObserver said:
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
0 -
Yes he really was.Jonathan said:
No he really wasn’t.SouthamObserver said:
The Conservative party and its supporters are always prone to hubris. None more so than Boris Johnson. It was a very stupid thing to say, but fundamentally he was right!AnneJGP said:
That was more or less my thinking, although I was lacking the detailed information. Nevertheless it was not a good thing to say because it immediately landed him in the Need-to-explain zone.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Greed and capitalism work. Its just not polite to say that.0 -
If this is really how the EU bureaucracy see the world, and it may well be, they are in even more trouble than I thought. They are performing a public service in disclosing this even if their public service is not that of informing their subscribers of reality.eek said:
It does seem that any American journalist who becomes their EU correspondent ends up with a very one sided viewpoint. Dave Keating is the another example where fact checking from the other side sees to be completely ignored.Charles said:
Did he write that article herself or just take down a dictation? Utterly one sided perspectivewilliamglenn said:
They seem to be almost embedded war journalists but without pointing out why their viewpoint is limited.1 -
If capitalism was the primary factor here, as a 40 year old I should be able to splash a few quid, jump the queue, engage with the vaccine market and buy protection for my family. Instead, I have wait until the government allocates the resources to those in most need. This is not capitalism.0
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Nah. Science works. The NHS works.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes he really was.Jonathan said:
No he really wasn’t.SouthamObserver said:
The Conservative party and its supporters are always prone to hubris. None more so than Boris Johnson. It was a very stupid thing to say, but fundamentally he was right!AnneJGP said:
That was more or less my thinking, although I was lacking the detailed information. Nevertheless it was not a good thing to say because it immediately landed him in the Need-to-explain zone.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Greed and capitalism work. Its just not polite to say that.1 -
I don’t think anyone who works for the Pharma industry is any “greedier” than GPs who have very high salaries and ridiculously gold plated pensions. The BMA are the personification of greedy attitudes.AnneJGP said:
That was more or less my thinking, although I was lacking the detailed information. Nevertheless it was not a good thing to say because it immediately landed him in the Need-to-explain zone.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
2 -
Speak out against the state’s prejudiced prosecution of militant industrial action? Bit too controversial I’m afraid, might piss off the red tops.
50 years ago you say?
Hard work already done you say?
That funny bloke off The Royle Family you say?
Let’s go for it!
https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1374374378738130956?s=210 -
Polling like that is the perfect explanation for the bat-shit, knee-jerk reactions within Europe.CarlottaVance said:
"We must do SOMETHING......"0 -
Yeah capitalism played no role, that's why state run institutions have produced the vaccine instead of companies. Oh no, wait, no that's not true.Jonathan said:
To attribute the vaccine to capitalism is wrong. First and foremost it was science, then it was the purchasing and logistical power of government to focus on an urgent goal, then somewhere down the line capitalism played a role along with Dolly Parton.SouthamObserver said:
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Capitalism produced all the western vaccines apart from arguably Oxford/AZN.0 -
So the NHS is manufacturing its own vaccines? Companies aren't?Jonathan said:
Nah. Science works. The NHS works.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes he really was.Jonathan said:
No he really wasn’t.SouthamObserver said:
The Conservative party and its supporters are always prone to hubris. None more so than Boris Johnson. It was a very stupid thing to say, but fundamentally he was right!AnneJGP said:
That was more or less my thinking, although I was lacking the detailed information. Nevertheless it was not a good thing to say because it immediately landed him in the Need-to-explain zone.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Greed and capitalism work. Its just not polite to say that.
Don't take the piss.1 -
I wonder if any politician might be brave enough to suggest that greed is behind the AZ smears...2
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Strip out the scientists and see how you get on. This is primarily a triumph of science, then government logistics. Capitalism played a supporting role and has largely been suspended whilst governments expedite funding.Philip_Thompson said:
Yeah capitalism played no role, that's why state run institutions have produced the vaccine instead of companies. Oh no, wait, no that's not true.Jonathan said:
To attribute the vaccine to capitalism is wrong. First and foremost it was science, then it was the purchasing and logistical power of government to focus on an urgent goal, then somewhere down the line capitalism played a role along with Dolly Parton.SouthamObserver said:
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Capitalism produced all the western vaccines apart from arguably Oxford/AZN.0 -
Merkel has made a series of strategic errors, one of which resulted in the UK leaving the EU, but there has to be a risk that her period of dominance in EU affairs will be looked back on fondly for its stability and predictability. A Germany without a stable government or effective leadership threatens to leave the EU rudderless going forward. I just don't see how you get a stable government out of that.CarlottaVance said:1 -
..0
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How many brilliant scientists never got anywhere with their brilliant idea because they didn't get their shit together with brilliant capitalism? My guess is probably most of them.Jonathan said:
Strip out the scientists and see how you get on. This is primarily a triumph of science, then government logistics. Capitalism played a supporting role and has largely been suspended whilst governments expedite funding.Philip_Thompson said:
Yeah capitalism played no role, that's why state run institutions have produced the vaccine instead of companies. Oh no, wait, no that's not true.Jonathan said:
To attribute the vaccine to capitalism is wrong. First and foremost it was science, then it was the purchasing and logistical power of government to focus on an urgent goal, then somewhere down the line capitalism played a role along with Dolly Parton.SouthamObserver said:
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Capitalism produced all the western vaccines apart from arguably Oxford/AZN.
The killer combo is a scientist with a nose for money.1 -
That is a post that will make no sense to anybody but will get applause from those who would wish it to be true.ydoethur said:
Well, quite. I mean it’s not like you had a leader from a posh background who pretends to be a friend to ordinary people, who makes racist remarks, who is lazy, disorganised and not very bright, and is a love rat famous for spending money he hasn’t got on things he doesn’t need.NickPalmer said:
I actually met a voter who said "They're all the same" in 2019 about Johnson and Corbyn! I said, "Honestly, what do we have to do to persuade you we're different??" She mumbled grumpily and closed the door.bigjohnowls said:
Our Canvassers have seen the return of "They're all the same" that disappeared in 2017 and 2019
That anyone would think Labour was the same as the Tories is just amazing.0 -
Scientists working for companies seeking to make a profit, yes. Again with the sole exception of Oxford/AZN.Jonathan said:
Strip out the scientists and see how you get on. This is primarily a triumph of science, then government logistics. Capitalism played a supporting role and has largely been suspended whilst governments expedite funding.Philip_Thompson said:
Yeah capitalism played no role, that's why state run institutions have produced the vaccine instead of companies. Oh no, wait, no that's not true.Jonathan said:
To attribute the vaccine to capitalism is wrong. First and foremost it was science, then it was the purchasing and logistical power of government to focus on an urgent goal, then somewhere down the line capitalism played a role along with Dolly Parton.SouthamObserver said:
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Capitalism produced all the western vaccines apart from arguably Oxford/AZN.
Pfizer, Moderna, J&J - these aren't nationalised institutions.0 -
Grand coalition of the CDU/CSU, the SPD and the Greens.DavidL said:
Merkel has made a series of strategic errors, one of which resulted in the UK leaving the EU, but there has to be a risk that her period of dominance in EU affairs will be looked back on fondly for its stability and predictability. A Germany without a stable government or effective leadership threatens to leave the EU rudderless going forward. I just don't see how you get a stable government out of that.CarlottaVance said:
The problem is, who does opposition support coalesce around in the next four years? One day it might not go to an acceptable coalition partner.0 -
Absolutely. Or a business keen on money with a nose for good scientists.MarqueeMark said:
How many brilliant scientists never got anywhere with their brilliant idea because they didn't get their shit together with brilliant capitalism? My guess is probably most of them.Jonathan said:
Strip out the scientists and see how you get on. This is primarily a triumph of science, then government logistics. Capitalism played a supporting role and has largely been suspended whilst governments expedite funding.Philip_Thompson said:
Yeah capitalism played no role, that's why state run institutions have produced the vaccine instead of companies. Oh no, wait, no that's not true.Jonathan said:
To attribute the vaccine to capitalism is wrong. First and foremost it was science, then it was the purchasing and logistical power of government to focus on an urgent goal, then somewhere down the line capitalism played a role along with Dolly Parton.SouthamObserver said:
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Capitalism produced all the western vaccines apart from arguably Oxford/AZN.
The killer combo is a scientist with a nose for money.0 -
Merkel stayed on too long. Early Merkel hardly put a foot wrong, late Merkel developed the faecal Midas touch. If she'd gone out on a high she would have been seen as Wunderfrau, as it is she goes out with a whimper.DavidL said:
Merkel has made a series of strategic errors, one of which resulted in the UK leaving the EU, but there has to be a risk that her period of dominance in EU affairs will be looked back on fondly for its stability and predictability. A Germany without a stable government or effective leadership threatens to leave the EU rudderless going forward. I just don't see how you get a stable government out of that.CarlottaVance said:1 -
Why doesn't he just own the comment instead of pushing out crap like that ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
From LauraIanB2 said:Boris Johnson has told Conservative MPs that the UK’s successful vaccine rollout was thanks to “greed” and “capitalism”.
Several of those present confirmed the prime minister had made the remarks during an end-of-term Zoom meeting with Tory backbenchers, known as the 1922 Committee, on Tuesday evening, two days before the Commons breaks for Easter.
Johnson hailed the fact that more than 28 million people have been given a first jab in the UK, saying: “The reason we have the vaccine success is because of capitalism, because of greed my friends.”
Immediately afterwards, he tried to backpedal and withdraw what he had said, according to MPs, one of whom added that the PM then made a joke about how details of the 1922 Committee virtual meetings often leak.
Downing Street has not denied the account but refused to issue a comment.
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1374487905280741385?s=19
Embarrassing journalism, too.2 -
I would accept this as a success for social democracy and a partnership between industry, research and government , but capitalism alone or as the primary force, nah. That’s bullshit.SouthamObserver said:
It wasn't science in abstract. As a social democrat, I celebrate the role of government in all this. I believe in the state as a powerful force for good. But as a social democrat, I do not see how it would have happened without the R&D structures, manufacturing capabilities and distribution networks that were ready to go because they were set up by companies that exist to make money.Jonathan said:
To attribute the vaccine to capitalism is wrong. First and foremost it was science, then it was the purchasing and logistical power of government to focus on an urgent goal, then somewhere down the line capitalism played a role along with Dolly Parton.SouthamObserver said:
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
2 -
I agree. As we saw in the UK with track and trace starting from scratch is very hard.Foxy said:
I have said all along that the biggest problem in vaccination will be the distribution and delivery infrastructure. The NHS has a very good system for this, but much of the world has a more fragmented retail health sector.DavidL said:
And yet what we are seeing is a surge in vaccine right now which is expected to fall for up to a month in a couple of weeks time slowing down the program. Our peak day was over 850k but we are averaging something like 400k. We have the capacity to do more but we don't have the stocks.Philip_Thompson said:
Perhaps. But the UK's vaccine rollout after an initial exponential growth period has for months now trended at a remarkably flat line.DavidL said:
That chart is plain fantasy though. What we have all painfully learned is that vaccine supply is lumpy and inherently unpredictable. Suggesting that the EU will have a smooth 120m vaccines a month, month after month, suggests to me that whoever created it has no idea what they are talking about.kle4 said:
They shouldn't end up as far behind as currently feared. A focus on jabbing not jabbering would help with that.MattW said:Hmm. Crude maths in the chart, but interesting.
https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1373948397191888898
It may be lumpy but it may average at those amounts.
There are many things that are just baffling about the EU effort but one of them is the failure by Member States to use what they have, to create the capacity to get vaccines into arms efficiently. The EU is starting to point the finger about this which, although it will hardly improve relations, may well contain a significant element of truth. And that is before the idiocy in Italy where prosecutors are seizing vaccine.1 -
Are you saying *shock horror* that he might have Conservative principles today that he had seven years ago.Theuniondivvie said:
Shocking, absolutely shocking that a Conservative Prime Minister might have Conservative principles.
You'd never see an SNP First Minister saying today that Scotland should be independent if she said that seven years ago would you? Because that would be repeating yourself in your eyes.4 -
The most exalted proponent of having cake and eating it believes greed is good. The idea that this is newsworthy tells us nothing much is happening.0
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Even if excess deaths in the UK were still above the median, we have to get society and the economy going again, and start reducing the huge backlog of non-COVID issues the health service has built up. We've put normal life on hold for a long time - arguably much too long.LindonLight said:I think the reason Boris' poll rating is dissipating (thread header) is because people viewed vaccination as the route to freedom, which they are supposed to. If we are being vaccinated and there's no end to restrictions it renders the jab pretty pointless.
The fear mongering among certain scientists is getting silly. We vaccinate the population, we get on with life. Yes some people will still die. They do of flu. Excess deaths in the UK are now below the mean.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/vaccines-should-mean-more-freedom-not-less
It's time to suck it up, folks.0 -
Sinovac, Sputnik ... ?Philip_Thompson said:
Yeah capitalism played no role, that's why state run institutions have produced the vaccine instead of companies. Oh no, wait, no that's not true....Jonathan said:
To attribute the vaccine to capitalism is wrong. First and foremost it was science, then it was the purchasing and logistical power of government to focus on an urgent goal, then somewhere down the line capitalism played a role along with Dolly Parton.SouthamObserver said:
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Capitalism didn't produce the vaccines, though it did build most of the companies which are doing so.
And strangely enough there are motivations other than greed for working for them.1 -
Is this not the truism about all political careers? Maggie was the same.Alanbrooke said:
Merkel stayed on too long. Early Merkel hardly put a foot wrong, late Merkel developed the faecal Midas touch. If she'd gone out on a high he would have been seen as Wunderfrau, as it is she goes out with a whimper.DavidL said:
Merkel has made a series of strategic errors, one of which resulted in the UK leaving the EU, but there has to be a risk that her period of dominance in EU affairs will be looked back on fondly for its stability and predictability. A Germany without a stable government or effective leadership threatens to leave the EU rudderless going forward. I just don't see how you get a stable government out of that.CarlottaVance said:0 -
I shan't eat any more than I'm eating now. Overall, anyway. Might be different, might be in different places but I'll still eat my usual 1800-2000 calories. (Or whatever it is!)MarqueeMark said:
We can eat a hell of a lot more when the pubs and restaurants are open again.....OldKingCole said:
I would not be surprised if some food grown, caught or whatever in and around UK became cheaper fo a while, as the growers, catchers etc try to get rid of it. Once those involved realise though that UK is their only market some of them will go off and try to do something else.IanB2 said:Breaking: surprise drop in inflation to 0.4%
Food is getting cheaper, apparently, along with clothes and shoes. Suggestions there is discounting to encourage sales during lockdown (and also that the ONS is having to 'guess' prices where services are closed)
How much shellfish can, or will, we eat? Same with lamb.0 -
I’ve just posted someone else’s tweet. Bit early to to be triggered into a caffeine-laden, saliva-flecked defence of BJ ain’t it?Philip_Thompson said:
Are you saying *shock horror* that he might have Conservative principles today that he had seven years ago.Theuniondivvie said:
Shocking, absolutely shocking that a Conservative Prime Minister might have Conservative principles.
You'd never see an SNP First Minister saying today that Scotland should be independent if she said that seven years ago would you? Because that would be repeating yourself in your eyes.0 -
Politics for all has put amusing embellishments into other tweets too - the picture of the Beirut explosion into the "Bomb Bristol" story for instance.MattW said:
Someone stirring.Dura_Ace said:Pulpstar said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1374484531516862483
Reaper drones to patrol the beaches !
Reapers don't conform to STANAG 4671 so they cannot be operated in civvie airspace. They are also based in Akrotiri so it's a bit of a long transit to get on station over Bournemouth.
MQ-9B Protector can but they aren't arriving until 2023.
That drone photo is not in the newspaper story.
Named and shamed. Quite right too.CarlottaVance said:So not some chav then:
https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1374632851153489924?s=200 -
Wonder if Boris was a CEO of a PLC which companies would have fired him for yesterday's comment.
Essentially he was trying to make a joke trashing business people as 'greedy'.Of course the old private snobbery of a public school/oxbridge set who simultanouisly try to scrooge off the self made 30 years ago Gerald Ratner lost his CEO job for trying to make a joke which basically trashed his own jewellery products.
Boris (and Ratner) are/were saying a lot more about themselves than about people in business.
Plenty of people in business want to make money by offering products and services in a way that they can take a pride in.And anyone who does the stockmarket will find opportunities to invest in those business's.
Part of Warren Buffett success is based on spotting and avoiding greedy rip off merchants.
0 -
The Greens have gutted the SPD as a result of grand coalitions. Why would they want to suffer the same fate and would they be reliable partners in government anyway?tlg86 said:
Grand coalition of the CDU/CSU, the SPD and the Greens.DavidL said:
Merkel has made a series of strategic errors, one of which resulted in the UK leaving the EU, but there has to be a risk that her period of dominance in EU affairs will be looked back on fondly for its stability and predictability. A Germany without a stable government or effective leadership threatens to leave the EU rudderless going forward. I just don't see how you get a stable government out of that.CarlottaVance said:
The problem is, who does opposition support coalesce around in the next four years? One day it might not go to an acceptable coalition partner.0 -
With sustained numbers like those, I wonder if German politics might turn Italian, with lots of unstable, ever-revolving but never-evolving governments held hostage by small parties or independents?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Says Otto the eclectic tweeter!Theuniondivvie said:
0 -
In general we talk about the west but Sputnik at least seems to have been produced by industrial espionage, not an option for first movers.Nigelb said:
Sinovac, Sputnik ... ?Philip_Thompson said:
Yeah capitalism played no role, that's why state run institutions have produced the vaccine instead of companies. Oh no, wait, no that's not true....Jonathan said:
To attribute the vaccine to capitalism is wrong. First and foremost it was science, then it was the purchasing and logistical power of government to focus on an urgent goal, then somewhere down the line capitalism played a role along with Dolly Parton.SouthamObserver said:
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Capitalism didn't produce the vaccines, though it did build most of the companies which are doing so.
And strangely enough there are motivations other than greed for working for them.
Capitalism did produce the vaccines, again with the exception of Oxford/AZN arguably. There's a reason Pfizer/BioNTech are due to make billions in sales which funded the research and development.0 -
Didn't the SPD start off by saying that they weren't going into coalition again in 2017? And where did they end up?DavidL said:
The Greens have gutted the SPD as a result of grand coalitions. Why would they want to suffer the same fate and would they be reliable partners in government anyway?tlg86 said:
Grand coalition of the CDU/CSU, the SPD and the Greens.DavidL said:
Merkel has made a series of strategic errors, one of which resulted in the UK leaving the EU, but there has to be a risk that her period of dominance in EU affairs will be looked back on fondly for its stability and predictability. A Germany without a stable government or effective leadership threatens to leave the EU rudderless going forward. I just don't see how you get a stable government out of that.CarlottaVance said:
The problem is, who does opposition support coalesce around in the next four years? One day it might not go to an acceptable coalition partner.
The reality is that a result like the polls are showing has only one viable option (based on my very limited understanding of German politics). And huge pressure will be placed on those three parties to make something work.1 -
Maybe not more - but different. We can soon eat much more variety, and especially stuff that is a faff to cook at home.OldKingCole said:
I shan't eat any more than I'm eating now. Overall, anyway. Might be different, might be in different places but I'll still eat my usual 1800-2000 calories. (Or whatever it is!)MarqueeMark said:
We can eat a hell of a lot more when the pubs and restaurants are open again.....OldKingCole said:
I would not be surprised if some food grown, caught or whatever in and around UK became cheaper fo a while, as the growers, catchers etc try to get rid of it. Once those involved realise though that UK is their only market some of them will go off and try to do something else.IanB2 said:Breaking: surprise drop in inflation to 0.4%
Food is getting cheaper, apparently, along with clothes and shoes. Suggestions there is discounting to encourage sales during lockdown (and also that the ONS is having to 'guess' prices where services are closed)
How much shellfish can, or will, we eat? Same with lamb.0 -
If you choose to post a Tweet without comment it generally implies you're endorsing the comment.Theuniondivvie said:
I’ve just posted someone else’s tweet. Bit early to to be triggered into a caffeine-laden, saliva-flecked defence of BJ ain’t it?Philip_Thompson said:
Are you saying *shock horror* that he might have Conservative principles today that he had seven years ago.Theuniondivvie said:
Shocking, absolutely shocking that a Conservative Prime Minister might have Conservative principles.
You'd never see an SNP First Minister saying today that Scotland should be independent if she said that seven years ago would you? Because that would be repeating yourself in your eyes.
Why would a politician having the same principles they had seven years ago be something to criticise?1 -
Seems a good dose of Adam Smith is required this morning.
Perhaps the PM could read out a chapter or two?2 -
Baseball bats, dangerous dogs, violent attacks on wild life.This is becoming a problem....Pulpstar said:
Politics for all has put amusing embellishments into other tweets too - the picture of the Beirut explosion into the "Bomb Bristol" story for instance.MattW said:
Someone stirring.Dura_Ace said:Pulpstar said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1374484531516862483
Reaper drones to patrol the beaches !
Reapers don't conform to STANAG 4671 so they cannot be operated in civvie airspace. They are also based in Akrotiri so it's a bit of a long transit to get on station over Bournemouth.
MQ-9B Protector can but they aren't arriving until 2023.
That drone photo is not in the newspaper story.
Named and shamed. Quite right too.CarlottaVance said:So not some chav then:
https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1374632851153489924?s=20
Obviously the next step in a civilised society is Top QC Control. Chip them, GPS monitors, and strict limits - limited the capacity of their briefs and limits on how big their London mansions are.1 -
It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.rottenborough said:Seems a good dose of Adam Smith is required this morning.
Perhaps the PM could read out a chapter or two?
4 -
"Two of the last five polls have the lead down at 2%"
*one of which doesn't have anything to compare with in almost a month
*the other shows changes in numbers consistent with, albeit at the extremities of, noise.
Slow news day chaps?
0 -
I don't think you have to worry about the financial health of the scientists involved. They will all be nobly accepting all kinds of nominal positions at various companies. so that said companies can have their bio on their websites.Philip_Thompson said:
Scientists working for companies seeking to make a profit, yes. Again with the sole exception of Oxford/AZN.Jonathan said:
Strip out the scientists and see how you get on. This is primarily a triumph of science, then government logistics. Capitalism played a supporting role and has largely been suspended whilst governments expedite funding.Philip_Thompson said:
Yeah capitalism played no role, that's why state run institutions have produced the vaccine instead of companies. Oh no, wait, no that's not true.Jonathan said:
To attribute the vaccine to capitalism is wrong. First and foremost it was science, then it was the purchasing and logistical power of government to focus on an urgent goal, then somewhere down the line capitalism played a role along with Dolly Parton.SouthamObserver said:
Science was funded by government money (to an extent), which in turn is largely predicated on taxes paid by businesses and private individuals, and money borrowed from financial markets. It's all tied in together.Jonathan said:
Science produced the vaccine, capitalism was suspended.Foxy said:
Capitalist innovation is one thing, though supported heavily by government spending up front, but I think where greed hurts is in the bungs to Tory doners, cronies and mates from the pub.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Capitalism produced all the western vaccines apart from arguably Oxford/AZN.
Pfizer, Moderna, J&J - these aren't nationalised institutions.
1 -
Surely the conclusion of today’s comments is that the Prime Minister supports NHS staff to demand double digit pay rises.1
-
Sadly, this is the sort of stupid story that make the likes of Laura want to get up in the morning.Nigelb said:
Why doesn't he just own the comment instead of pushing out crap like that ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
From LauraIanB2 said:Boris Johnson has told Conservative MPs that the UK’s successful vaccine rollout was thanks to “greed” and “capitalism”.
Several of those present confirmed the prime minister had made the remarks during an end-of-term Zoom meeting with Tory backbenchers, known as the 1922 Committee, on Tuesday evening, two days before the Commons breaks for Easter.
Johnson hailed the fact that more than 28 million people have been given a first jab in the UK, saying: “The reason we have the vaccine success is because of capitalism, because of greed my friends.”
Immediately afterwards, he tried to backpedal and withdraw what he had said, according to MPs, one of whom added that the PM then made a joke about how details of the 1922 Committee virtual meetings often leak.
Downing Street has not denied the account but refused to issue a comment.
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1374487905280741385?s=19
Embarrassing journalism, too.
How their bosses continue to think they’ve being doing a good job during the pandemic, is anyone’s guess.2 -
I would ban all dogs kept as pets.Pulpstar said:
Politics for all has put amusing embellishments into other tweets too - the picture of the Beirut explosion into the "Bomb Bristol" story for instance.MattW said:
Someone stirring.Dura_Ace said:Pulpstar said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1374484531516862483
Reaper drones to patrol the beaches !
Reapers don't conform to STANAG 4671 so they cannot be operated in civvie airspace. They are also based in Akrotiri so it's a bit of a long transit to get on station over Bournemouth.
MQ-9B Protector can but they aren't arriving until 2023.
That drone photo is not in the newspaper story.
Named and shamed. Quite right too.CarlottaVance said:So not some chav then:
https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1374632851153489924?s=200 -
Were you there? Did you see what transpired..Pulpstar said:
Politics for all has put amusing embellishments into other tweets too - the picture of the Beirut explosion into the "Bomb Bristol" story for instance.MattW said:
Someone stirring.Dura_Ace said:Pulpstar said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1374484531516862483
Reaper drones to patrol the beaches !
Reapers don't conform to STANAG 4671 so they cannot be operated in civvie airspace. They are also based in Akrotiri so it's a bit of a long transit to get on station over Bournemouth.
MQ-9B Protector can but they aren't arriving until 2023.
That drone photo is not in the newspaper story.
Named and shamed. Quite right too.CarlottaVance said:So not some chav then:
https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1374632851153489924?s=200 -
It isn't the philosophical truth of the statement that I object to - 'capitalism' was fine, even 'profit motive' would have been fine. He had to make it that bit fruitier and be terribly amusing and say 'greed', though heaven knows it's hardly an original point. If it wasn't a blunder he wouldn't have withdrawn it immediately and they wouldn't now be spinning about it referring to a cheese and pickle sandwich.rottenborough said:Seems a good dose of Adam Smith is required this morning.
Perhaps the PM could read out a chapter or two?
Morning all!1 -
The problem is he’s prone to flippant remarks that might be ok with a glass of wine in your hand after a good dinner. But he’s PM now.SouthamObserver said:
The Conservative party and its supporters are always prone to hubris. None more so than Boris Johnson. It was a very stupid thing to say, but fundamentally he was right!AnneJGP said:
That was more or less my thinking, although I was lacking the detailed information. Nevertheless it was not a good thing to say because it immediately landed him in the Need-to-explain zone.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Once again, though, I am astounded at the lack of discipline from politicians. This was said at a private meeting of Tory MPs. The only impact of a leak is to weaken the PM. The only gain is a transitory feeling that you’ve demonstrated to a journalist you are “in the know” (even though it’s only a 1922 meeting so hardly inner circle). Why leak this sort of story?6 -
This is the perennial problem with Labour idealogues, they hate compromise more than they do the Conservatives. This is why they are content to see perpetual Johnson and disappointed at three terms of Blair.Pulpstar said:The danger for Labour is that conservative voters think they're "acceptable" without actually voting for them whilst the left deserts them for the greens or something.
0 -
As an investor I would be hesitant to buy AZ if I thought that benevolence characterised their business model. AIUI it was the Ox bit that insisted on the no-profit line. But they deserve full credit for agreeing that, at least for the duration.2
-
Still plenty of Tory MPs who hate Boris. He's not just Marmite with the public/posters on pb. Still some safe-seat Remainers out there. With a grudge.Charles said:
The problem is he’s prone to flippant remarks that might be ok with a glass of wine in your hand after a good dinner. But he’s PM now.SouthamObserver said:
The Conservative party and its supporters are always prone to hubris. None more so than Boris Johnson. It was a very stupid thing to say, but fundamentally he was right!AnneJGP said:
That was more or less my thinking, although I was lacking the detailed information. Nevertheless it was not a good thing to say because it immediately landed him in the Need-to-explain zone.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Once again, though, I am astounded at the lack of discipline from politicians. This was said at a private meeting of Tory MPs. The only impact of a leak is to weaken the PM. The only gain is a transitory feeling that you’ve demonstrated to a journalist you are “in the know” (even though it’s only a 1922 meeting so hardly inner circle). Why leak this sort of story?0 -
I am sure Keir Starmer ensured justice was done when he was DPPTheuniondivvie said:Speak out against the state’s prejudiced prosecution of militant industrial action? Bit too controversial I’m afraid, might piss off the red tops.
50 years ago you say?
Hard work already done you say?
That funny bloke off The Royle Family you say?
Let’s go for it!
https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1374374378738130956?s=210 -
It is the truth though.Luckyguy1983 said:
It isn't the philosophical truth of the statement that I object to - 'capitalism' was fine, even 'profit motive' would have been fine. He had to make it that bit fruitier and be terribly amusing and say 'greed', though heaven knows it's hardly an original point. If it wasn't a blunder he wouldn't have withdrawn it immediately and they wouldn't now be spinning about it referring to a cheese and pickle sandwich.rottenborough said:Seems a good dose of Adam Smith is required this morning.
Perhaps the PM could read out a chapter or two?
Morning all!
It is sad that people telling the truth get attacked for doing so because the words are not deemed polite.0 -
It is not from the benevolence of the vaccine manufacturer that we expect to be saved, but from their regard to their own shareholders?geoffw said:
It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.rottenborough said:Seems a good dose of Adam Smith is required this morning.
Perhaps the PM could read out a chapter or two?0 -
Derbyshire plod already have here, mostly to harass walkers in empty moorland in the name of preventing viral spread.swing_voter said:
Some countries have used drones to monitor lockdown enforcement....I can see it happening in UKSandpit said:
Presumably they’ll be doing what the police helicopter usually does, but for a lot less money.Flatlander said:
Bonkers. What exactly are these drones going to do? Spot sharks? Jellyfish?Nigelb said:
Using drones to ‘reduce the numbers’ seems overly draconian...Pulpstar said:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1374484531516862483
Reaper drones to patrol the beaches !
Though given this government’s proclivities, you might expect then to use Spitfires to strafe the beaches, instead.
Might be time to get the soldering iron out....
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8249206
Monitoring traffic, looking for overcrowded areas, directing ground-based resources to incidents, that sort of thing. They’re not going to be armed and ready to shoot up Bournemouth beach!
If I'm at the beach and one of these pops up, I think I might suddenly take the flying stunt kites, possibly quite badly... :-)0 -
Hmmm, I would wager Ms. Vine was on the blower to the Daily Mail before the news from her husband had reached her shell-like. I can't think why the PM would need to be compromised?Charles said:
The problem is he’s prone to flippant remarks that might be ok with a glass of wine in your hand after a good dinner. But he’s PM now.SouthamObserver said:
The Conservative party and its supporters are always prone to hubris. None more so than Boris Johnson. It was a very stupid thing to say, but fundamentally he was right!AnneJGP said:
That was more or less my thinking, although I was lacking the detailed information. Nevertheless it was not a good thing to say because it immediately landed him in the Need-to-explain zone.SouthamObserver said:Greed and capitalism undoubtedly produced the vaccine. I don't see any problem in admitting that. Astra Zeneca is providing the vaccine at cost price currently, but is only obliged to do so while the pandemic officially exists. Once the WHO declares it is at an end - and covid becomes endemic - then it can start charging more. With boosters becoming a regular part of health systems across the world that is a licence to print money (especially given how easy it is to produce, store and distribute the Oxford/AZN jab). Furthermore, being involved with the vaccine may well have kept AZN's share price higher over the last year than it otherwise would have been. So what? We got vaccines. That is the important bit. Before I start worrying about companies and others making money from the huge amounts they throw at R&D I want to be shown a system that will work better. I have yet to see one.
Once again, though, I am astounded at the lack of discipline from politicians. This was said at a private meeting of Tory MPs. The only impact of a leak is to weaken the PM. The only gain is a transitory feeling that you’ve demonstrated to a journalist you are “in the know” (even though it’s only a 1922 meeting so hardly inner circle). Why leak this sort of story?0
