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The polling finds Brits top the world rankings when it comes to willingness to be vaccinated – polit

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  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630
    stodge said:

    That wasn't the issue to which I was referring. The vaccines do two key things as I see it - one, if you catch the virus, the effects are substantially mitigated and two, you become significantly less able to transmit the virus. With these two keys in place, it's all about "returning to normal" (horrible concept, let's have a new normal, not the boring old normal).

    Once we are all "cheek by jowl" as the Prime Minister once put it, the vaccines prevent the re-igniting of Covid but that works only as long as the vaccines work. Once the immunity declines or wears off, we'll be back to large outbreaks among people bunched together indoors in confined spaces. This isn't a risk for summer but it's a risk for autumn and next winter because we don't know how long the immunity provided by the vaccines will last.

    The first vaccines were only administered less than 3 months ago - let's say where we are in six months.
    Point is the immunity will be long lasting, so your scenarios won’t be a concern. But as you say, let’s wait and see.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,746
    rcs1000 said:

    The immunity doesn't disappear all in one go, it will slowly fade with time. (And may well last a decade, as tetanus, or for life, as with measels, polio, etc.)

    We'll have booster shots from time-to-time. Big deal.
    As an amateur immunologist, clearly the best kind, I would find it remarkable if those nifty T-Cells that will have been roused to action by the vaccine didn’t retain a memory of the virus for some considerable time.
  • Absolutely, But Hitler's Germany ruling supreme from the Atlantic to the Russian Pacific would have dwarfed us in every resource and strategic advantage you could possibly imagine. I'm sure, although Hitler did have an admiration for the English gentry in particular, I'm sure that admiration wouldn't have stretched to giving the UK any beneficial treatment. We would have been a client-State, very much dependent on his goodwill.
    I suppose one interesting counterfactual is quite now like a regime like the Nazis could have successfully held on to so many countries so aggressively. The 60s?

    Also worth pondering how long it would have been, outside of a world war, before he was himself deposed by some of the other nazi leaders.

    Finally, if we were out of it you have to wonder whether the Soviets would have chosen to open a front with Japan to get an alliance going with the US, assuming Pearl Harbour still happened.
  • geoffw said:

    Good first post Hoc.

    Thank you Geoff!
  • Hello all!
    I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers.
    I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been.
    I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme.
    Was death-cult the mot-juste once?

    Excellent post - welcome to the site!

    Don't worry - Meeks will be back soon - and I am sure he can put you on the list! :lol:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,414
    Pagan2 said:

    The most likely military threat to europe is russia, if russia invades europe I suggest we let them call on china. Russia and china are both enemies of the west. Fighting a war over europe will weaken both.
    So, you actually want the Continent of Europe to be more in bed with your stated Enemy of the West, China?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302

    Hello all!
    I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers.
    I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been.
    I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme.
    Was death-cult the mot-juste once?

    Welcome aboard!

    PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Point is the immunity will be long lasting, so your scenarios won’t be a concern. But as you say, let’s wait and see.
    Hopefully, when everyone’s been done by May or June and the immediate crisis has passed, attention might turn to studying the ongoing immunity of those who were at the front of the queue for vaccines in December and January.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,012

    Thank you Geoff!
    Hic haec hoc.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630
    geoffw said:

    Good first post Hoc.

    It’ll be all downhill from here though. That’s the way of it on pb...
    welcome
  • Not for the first time, Scoop Smith having to recognise the gap between what she wants to have happened and the actualité.

    https://twitter.com/bbcsarahsmith/status/1365399553634144258?s=21
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,808
    rcs1000 said:

    So, you actually want the Continent of Europe to be more in bed with your stated Enemy of the West, China?
    No I am saying if china gets in bed with europe which is what appears to be happening currently. If russia invades let china help defend them. Both russia and china get weakened by the conflict. We should stand to the side because frankly we aren't going to make a difference.

    Two weakened enemies is better surely than two full strength ones
  • Welcome aboard!

    PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3280396/#Comment_3280396
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,856
    Over 25k cases again in France today.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,746
    DougSeal said:

    As an amateur immunologist, clearly the best kind, I would find it remarkable if those nifty T-Cells that will have been roused to action by the vaccine didn’t retain a memory of the virus for some considerable time.
    I take that confidence stance from reading stuff like this - which I’ve been doing with increasing regularity in recent months - https://www.jimmunol.org/content/181/8/5490
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,670
    Very interesting that this Section 23 procedure was the one they used on the Crown Office in January.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/22/scottish-parliament-orders-prosecutors-to-release-salmond-leak-evidence

    That it has been used before suggests that the committee can issue it.

    So one question is what has Salmond added - perhaps identifying that it can be used with "any person", and flagging that his solicitor would comply, and not quibble as the Crown Office has done.

    Presumably if the notice is broadly drawn, there may be extra docs which appear.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,012

    Not for the first time, Scoop Smith having to recognise the gap between what she wants to have happened and the actualité.

    https://twitter.com/bbcsarahsmith/status/1365399553634144258?s=21

    Aw mock ye not. Her daddy took her to the same ballet class as I took my girl.
  • Over 25k cases again in France today.

    That’s scary. Like seeing an unwelcome mirror of what we had. All joking about the French aside we should do anything and everything we can to help.
  • Welcome aboard!

    PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
    Yes

    He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again

    I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
  • Hello all!
    I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers.
    I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been.
    I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme.
    Was death-cult the mot-juste once?

    Welcome to PB EPH
  • MattW said:

    Very interesting that this Section 23 procedure was the one they used on the Crown Office in January.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/22/scottish-parliament-orders-prosecutors-to-release-salmond-leak-evidence

    That it has been used before suggests that the committee can issue it.

    So one question is what has Salmond added - perhaps identifying that it can be used with "any person", and flagging that his solicitor would comply, and not quibble as the Crown Office has done.

    Presumably if the notice is broadly drawn, there may be extra docs which appear.

    “Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, all the documents are already in this envelope with your address on”.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594

    Not on this board, no:

    https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1365388085563850754?s=20

    Indeed one was done today!

    He's had many interesting and compelling comments.

    That's not one of them.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,414
    edited February 2021

    Now there's a clear agument in favour of the monarchy for @TSE:

    Queen: 1
    Wankers: 0
    Delingpole appears to upset that the Queen is recommending her subjects take the vaccine so as to avoid getting seriously ill (and possibly dying) of Coronavirus.

    Cuckoo.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,808
    rcs1000 said:

    Some people have - quite literally - gone mad in the last few years.

    James Delingpole has gone from interesting eccentric, with whom one could agree with on some things, and at least understand where he was coming from on others, to complete and utter loon.

    A lot of well known commentators have slid downwards on the ickeness scale and devolved into loons over the last 2 years, also true of some that comment here
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594

    Indeed.

    Dominion by C J Sansom paints a very believable picture of how things might well have been had Britain sued for peace with Hitler. Good book.
    Not read that one, but given the quality of his other books, I can well believe that.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,414
    Pagan2 said:

    A lot of well known commentators have slid downwards on the ickeness scale and devolved into loons over the last 2 years, also true of some that comment here
    Nah, you were always batshit crazy.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Delingpole appears to upset that the Queen is recommending her subjects take the vaccine so as to avoid getting seriously ill (and possibly dying) of Coronavirus.

    Cuckoo.
    We should send him to Galicia.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,808
    rcs1000 said:

    Nah, you were always batshit crazy.
    Not crazy I just don't live in your reality :)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594

    That’s scary. Like seeing an unwelcome mirror of what we had. All joking about the French aside we should do anything and everything we can to help.
    We cannot do anything. They have vaccines to give now, some at least, and are in a better position of protection than we were in early January, but the rest is down to them taking measures.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    I suppose one interesting counterfactual is quite now like a regime like the Nazis could have successfully held on to so many countries so aggressively. The 60s?

    Also worth pondering how long it would have been, outside of a world war, before he was himself deposed by some of the other nazi leaders.

    Finally, if we were out of it you have to wonder whether the Soviets would have chosen to open a front with Japan to get an alliance going with the US, assuming Pearl Harbour still happened.
    The counterfactuals are, thank goodness, something we have the luxury of exploring, if only to appreciate what we have today.

    With no meaningful resistance operations co-ordinated and supplied by Allies, it wouldn't have taken very long for any memory of pre-invasion Europe to fade being counteracted by complete suppression and propaganda. By the 1960's you would have had a new generation educated and indoctrinated in Nazi ideology across the Greater Reich with France etc being mere provinces of a Germania. History would have been re-written and any subversion brutally extinguished.

    The Soviets would have been taken out far too quickly to have any meaningful alliance with the US who would have kept well away from interfering anyway.

    And yes, I agree Hitler may very well have personally undermined from within, but unlikely. Whomever took over would have to have paid due reverence as the whole she-bang was based on the cult of personality.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Some people have - quite literally - gone mad in the last few years.

    James Delingpole has gone from interesting eccentric, with whom one could agree with on some things, and at least understand where he was coming from on others, to complete and utter loon.

    It’s been refreshing to see British politicians of all stripes broadly come together on the public health stuff. Gives me hope that when it matters we still have the traditional old, pragmatic ability to unite on what matters.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,012
    edited February 2021

    Has anyone already pointed out Galicia's fines for refusing a vaccine?
    https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2021/02/23/galicia-paves-the-way-for-fines-of-up-e60000-for-anti-vaxxers/

    The headline exaggerates with an extra zero. But €6k is plenty alright.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594
    Pagan2 said:

    A lot of well known commentators have slid downwards on the ickeness scale and devolved into loons over the last 2 years, also true of some that comment here
    They key was to start out as a loon, so I couldn't devolve.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,012
    Wot ? No thread on the Sainted Nicola and the personal attack on her by Jabba the hut?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,670
    Pagan2 said:

    The most likely military threat to europe is russia, if russia invades europe I suggest we let them call on china. Russia and china are both enemies of the west. Fighting a war over europe will weaken both.
    I think a key element hear is increasing power of Eastern Europe, and Poland etc providing a different balance of 'weight' in the EU. Being close to Russia as they can afford it they will be more committed to a strong defence.

    Progress made, some way still to go.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi4sq5ZTdTk
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,414
    Pagan2 said:

    Not crazy I just don't live in your reality :)
    My reality - looks out of window, sees sunny skies - looks pretty good right now :smile:
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    kle4 said:

    He's had many interesting and compelling comments.

    That's not one of them.
    Indeed, a big disappointment to me that he seems to be challenging his Komikal Keating mirror image here.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594

    Has anyone already pointed out Galicia's fines for refusing a vaccine?
    https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2021/02/23/galicia-paves-the-way-for-fines-of-up-e60000-for-anti-vaxxers/

    The article seems confusingly written to me, with talk of fines for breaches of Covid regs, assurance vaccination would not be mandatory, before quite a ways down talking about legality of compulsory vaccination.
  • geoffw said:

    Aw mock ye not. Her daddy took her to the same ballet class as I took my girl.
    Since the Divine Ms Smith is not the prima ballerina at the Royal Ballet, I assume that’s two things that she’s not very good at.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited February 2021
    What does/did the Pope say? Or, does he not do secular?
    Come to think of it, is death and life secular?
  • Now there's a clear agument in favour of the monarchy for @TSE:

    Queen: 1
    Wankers: 0
    Well if we're playing that game.

    Delingpole is an argument for rejoining the EU as he was a Leaver.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,594
    Reminds me of the chap going off OJ Simpson because he got vaccinated.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,812

    No you are acting in bad faith.

    There is categorically no semblance of truth to the Worldometers figures. Just because someone compiles dodgy data does not give it a semblance of truth.

    When Italy are recording two excess deaths for every one Covid death there is no good faith reason at all to be using the Worldometers data when accurate alternatives are out there.

    It is like a few days ago when Leon claimed that France had a 25% death toll from Covid19 because that is what Worldometers gives as the closed case death rate.

    Anybody still using Worldometers as their primary source and trying to make political claims based on that is either malicious or ignorant.

    Worldometers table is not "unfair" or "disagreeable" it is wrong and using wrong data leads to wrong outcomes. Garbage in, garbage out.
    Much deflection rather than admit hyperbolic language. Ah well.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,808
    rcs1000 said:

    My reality - looks out of window, sees sunny skies - looks pretty good right now :smile:
    Looks out the window and sees a naked olivia wilde rising over the lush jungles of jupiter....did I win?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,012

    Since the Divine Ms Smith is not the prima ballerina at the Royal Ballet, I assume that’s two things that she’s not very good at.
    tut

  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    rcs1000 said:

    Delingpole appears to upset that the Queen is recommending her subjects take the vaccine so as to avoid getting seriously ill (and possibly dying) of Coronavirus.

    Cuckoo.
    It's sad in a way, but at least he's given the world a new SI unit of twattishness:

    'The way you laughed when that old man fell over in the road registered at almost 0.5 delingpoles'...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,012
    I am very sorry to hear that Mr Meeks has departed this site. I always read his threads and he has a good insight into what is going on. I hope his withdrawal is temporary.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    He just wants to be adored, that's all.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    I am very sorry to hear that Mr Meeks has departed this site. I always read his threads and he has a good insight into what is going on. I hope his withdrawal is temporary.

    That's what she said.
  • He just wants to be adored, that's all.
    Seeking adoration is fools gold.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,012

    He’s a frustrating character. Clearly clever, successful, and with strong views. Also prone to be a bit over the top and histrionic, and lacking in self awareness. If you post on pb you must accept that not everyone will agree with you, and some will reply to your comments, often unpleasantly, as he did to me today. Yet pb remains a remarkable place to go for insight far beyond the mainstream media, and with all viewpoints. Running away is a sad loss.
    I wouldn't class it as running away, more a case of "Do i need this shit".. answer No.

    You used to be able to block people you did not want to converse with..
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,824
    It's like a Stalinist show trial where they do a pretendy bit in the middle when they seem to be transparent.... and then it's back to the whitewash

    It beggars belief that any democrat in Scotland, Yes, No, Indy, Tory, whatever, can tolerate this spectacle
  • kinabalu said:

    Much deflection rather than admit hyperbolic language. Ah well.
    It isn't hyperbolic.

    You either believe in using data with integrity, or you do not. If you know data is completely fallacious - like Worldometers claiming 25% of French covid patients die, or that the UK has the 4th highest death toll per capita - then you need to sort that out and get accurate data.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,012
    Leon said:

    It's like a Stalinist show trial where they do a pretendy bit in the middle when they seem to be transparent.... and then it's back to the whitewash

    It beggars belief that any democrat in Scotland, Yes, No, Indy, Tory, whatever, can tolerate this spectacle
    It is cringeworthy, in many dimensions.

  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    He’s a frustrating character. Clearly clever, successful, and with strong views. Also prone to be a bit over the top and histrionic, and lacking in self awareness. If you post on pb you must accept that not everyone will agree with you, and some will reply to your comments, often unpleasantly, as he did to me today. Yet pb remains a remarkable place to go for insight far beyond the mainstream media, and with all viewpoints. Running away is a sad loss.
    As Paul Gauguin said:
    "Where Do We Come From? What Are We? Where Are We Going?"
  • How did everybody enjoy the weather today?

    I went to an old friend's place (who has quite a huge plot so no problem with social distancing) to dig out and over about 100 square foot of bramble infested former vegetable patch for him, so he can grow veg again this year. He's a very keen gardener but can't physically manage that sort of job any more.

    I haven't done any exercise other than walking to the supermarket late at night since early November, so digging up bramble was hard. I had to stop every fifteen minutes or so for beer. I'm aching now, especially my left (vaxed) arm. But I'm feeling the best I have in months.

    The sun has been shining and I've had a vaccine. I feel alive again.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,012
    Toms said:

    As Paul Gauguin said:
    "Where Do We Come From? What Are We? Where Are We Going?"
    Is that how he greeted the Tahitians?

  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,824

    Welcome aboard!

    PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
    It was one of the more spectacular PB Flounces. And I have seen a few.

    He came on and started his "you are all evil Nazi zombies without souls, trying to kill my partner with Brexit" shtick, (while denying his ire was anything to do with Brexit), then got in a huff when people took a tiny bit of offence, and off he went.

    It was the Butthurt of The Meeks, REDUX

    TBH it quite perplexes me. He is clearly a very intelligent, sensitive guy, and he has been through difficult times. But, really, calm down

    I hope he returns with his excellent articulate headers, and often perceptive comments. But he just has to get over Brexit. It is done.
  • Yes

    He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again

    I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
    I can second this with my experiences.

    Alastair is a good guy.
  • Leon said:

    It was one of the more spectacular PB Flounces. And I have seen a few.

    He came on and started his "you are all evil Nazi zombies without souls, trying to kill my partner with Brexit" shtick, (while denying his ire was anything to do with Brexit), then got in a huff when people took a tiny bit of offence, and off he went.

    It was the Butthurt of The Meeks, REDUX

    TBH it quite perplexes me. He is clearly a very intelligent, sensitive guy, and he has been through difficult times. But, really, calm down

    I hope he returns with his excellent articulate headers, and often perceptive comments. But he just has to get over Brexit. It is done.
    That's a fair summary.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630

    I wouldn't class it as running away, more a case of "Do i need this shit".. answer No.

    You used to be able to block people you did not want to converse with..
    Except he came on to vent his rage about the governments lamentable failure to avoid ‘avoidable’ deaths, and bemoan what he calls government cheer leaders. He came looking responses, then left when he got them.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,414
    Pagan2 said:

    Looks out the window and sees a naked olivia wilde rising over the lush jungles of jupiter....did I win?
    Yes.
  • How did everybody enjoy the weather today?

    I went to an old friend's place (who has quite a huge plot so no problem with social distancing) to dig out and over about 100 square foot of bramble infested former vegetable patch for him, so he can grow veg again this year. He's a very keen gardener but can't physically manage that sort of job any more.

    I haven't done any exercise other than walking to the supermarket late at night since early November, so digging up bramble was hard. I had to stop every fifteen minutes or so for beer. I'm aching now, especially my left (vaxed) arm. But I'm feeling the best I have in months.

    The sun has been shining and I've had a vaccine. I feel alive again.

    Welcome to the site.

    Sounds like you had a good day, that's nice. Still chilly here, hopefully will get more spring weather soon.

    Is your gardening friend related to an exotic flint knapper by any chance?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,012

    That's a fair summary.
    Sean T is back I see.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm struggling with your scenario. You worry about us having to rescue Europe from an enemy of the West, which is fair enough. But then you identify that enemy as China, and say that France and Germany are allied with it. So, who is China going to invade? Finland?

    Does the tale of the scorpion and the frog not apply here?
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    geoffw said:

    Is that how he greeted the Tahitians?

    Not exactly.

    https://tinyurl.com/yunsven9
  • I am very sorry to hear that Mr Meeks has departed this site. I always read his threads and he has a good insight into what is going on. I hope his withdrawal is temporary.

    Seems I have missed a bit of a PB 'event'.

    It's a shame. Hope he comes back.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,414
    I'll say one thing for Mr Meeks, he never dissed Radiohead.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Toms said:

    As Paul Gauguin said:
    "Where Do We Come From? What Are We? Where Are We Going?"
    I too have found Mr Meeks very frustrating. As you say, he is informed, intelligent and articulate. And on most issues, his points are well made and challenging, even when one does not agree. But then he has his moments when he makes wildly emotional and offensive remarks against anyone with whose views on certain issues, like Brexit, he disagrees - painting all Brexiters as racists, but then is very quick to take personal offense if someone gives anywhere near what he dishes out, or even has the temerity to point out his occasional viciousness.

    Part of the problem I am sure is this medium. I have heard from more than one person on this site how kind and generous he has been in person.

    My personal solution is to assume the best about him, read his comments, pass over those that cause offense swiftly, but basically no longer engage directly with him.
  • Welcome to the site.

    Sounds like you had a good day, that's nice. Still chilly here, hopefully will get more spring weather soon.

    Is your gardening friend related to an exotic flint knapper by any chance?
    Ha! No, he's now what might be termed an indoor grower.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,824

    The counterfactuals are, thank goodness, something we have the luxury of exploring, if only to appreciate what we have today.

    With no meaningful resistance operations co-ordinated and supplied by Allies, it wouldn't have taken very long for any memory of pre-invasion Europe to fade being counteracted by complete suppression and propaganda. By the 1960's you would have had a new generation educated and indoctrinated in Nazi ideology across the Greater Reich with France etc being mere provinces of a Germania. History would have been re-written and any subversion brutally extinguished.

    The Soviets would have been taken out far too quickly to have any meaningful alliance with the US who would have kept well away from interfering anyway.

    And yes, I agree Hitler may very well have personally undermined from within, but unlikely. Whomever took over would have to have paid due reverence as the whole she-bang was based on the cult of personality.
    The Man in the High Castle is a deeply flawed TV drama, which declines from season one, onwards.

    But my God, season 1. It was a brilliant portrayal of that counterfactual: what if Hitler had won.

    Chilling. And also far from impossible: if Nazi Germany, with its superb scientists, had designed an A-bomb by 1943, they would have won, and indeed defeated America, quite easily.

    If Hitler had known about the potential of the A bomb, within Germany, and waited three years to start his war, he would likely have conquered the entire world.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,272
    edited February 2021

    I was a Francophile up until the age of 15.

    I voluntarily chose to learn the French language, I love the food, the country but when in 1994 as a callow school student my school arranged a trip to Normandy to coincide with the 50th anniversary of D-Day.

    I was genuinely moved and humbled walking around places like the American and Commonwealth cemeteries in places like Colleville-sur-Mer and Bayeux, seeing the cliffs at Pointe du Hoc, it had a profound effect on me, it showed war isn't all glory but lots of sacrifice.

    One evening on that trip, I heard a bunch of Frenchmen laughing and making derogatory comments the Anglos and Los Rosbifs, it pissed me off, I got the feeling that they would have preferred to have remained under German control than liberated by the Anglos.

    Hence my lifelong dislike of the French.
    At 16 I went on a lads cycling holiday, camping in Normandy. We found the natives very friendly, sometimes all night...

    Maybe you met up with the grumpy parents.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,841
    Scott_xP said:
    Ugh, someone flush this turd already.

    (Nicola, not ScottP)
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Seems I have missed a bit of a PB 'event'.

    It's a shame. Hope he comes back.
    I am not sure he has left this site, rather than undertaking not to post in response to Philip. Or maybe I misread his last post.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,808
    ydoethur said:

    Ah, if you’d only been here in the early days, when a bloke called SeanT used to flounce off about once every 36 hours - oftener, if he was drunk.

    But he came back.

    Until one day suddenly he didn’t and we were no longer regaled with his amazing commentary.

    I particularly cherish the time he told me he didn't ‘give a tankard of warm donkey spunk’ what I thought of him.
    At least if its warm you know its fresh
  • I've just watched a fantastic and hilarious piece of BBC Comedy. Utterly utterly brilliant. First rate scriptwriting throughout, had me in stitches from start to finish, and was masterfully and decidedly unWoke: it was Private Plane from Blackadder Goes Forth. The one with Squadron Leader Lord Flashheart.

    Admittedly it was made over 30 years ago, and isn't part of their contemporary output, but it's a reminder that they used to do Funny.
  • TimT said:

    I too have found Mr Meeks very frustrating. As you say, he is informed, intelligent and articulate. And on most issues, his points are well made and challenging, even when one does not agree. But then he has his moments when he makes wildly emotional and offensive remarks against anyone with whose views on certain issues, like Brexit, he disagrees - painting all Brexiters as racists, but then is very quick to take personal offense if someone gives anywhere near what he dishes out, or even has the temerity to point out his occasional viciousness.

    Part of the problem I am sure is this medium. I have heard from more than one person on this site how kind and generous he has been in person.

    My personal solution is to assume the best about him, read his comments, pass over those that cause offense swiftly, but basically no longer engage directly with him.
    That is my very recent personal experience with a lovely exchange of private e mails between us
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,808
    rcs1000 said:

    I'll say one thing for Mr Meeks, he never dissed Radiohead.

    No one can diss radiohead....there are no words in any language that come near enough to being able to describe them. So until we invent those words....
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    Pagan2 said:

    At least if its warm you know its fresh
    "I particularly cherish the time he told me he didn't ‘give a tankard of warm donkey spunk’ what I thought of him"

    Sounds like a good basis of a BBC 1 Saturday evening gameshow. Couldn't be any worse that what's on at present.
  • ydoethur said:

    Ah, if you’d only been here in the early days, when a bloke called SeanT used to flounce off about once every 36 hours - oftener, if he was drunk.

    But he came back.

    Until one day suddenly he didn’t and we were no longer regaled with his amazing commentary.

    I particularly cherish the time he told me he didn't ‘give a tankard of warm donkey spunk’ what I thought of him.
    SeanT used to gratuitously and hyperbolically insult anyone who didn't agree with him. Those insults were funny to read, but you knew it would be your turn the day after if you took issue with him on another point and engaged him on it.

    He was basically a dick. A funny, entertaining and insightful dick, but still a dick.

    I wonder where he is now, and whether he's mellowed over the last 10 years?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Leon said:

    It's like a Stalinist show trial where they do a pretendy bit in the middle when they seem to be transparent.... and then it's back to the whitewash

    It beggars belief that any democrat in Scotland, Yes, No, Indy, Tory, whatever, can tolerate this spectacle
    And yet... Unless there really is a smoking gun still waiting to be discovered then Nicola Sturgeon will almost certainly survive, and the SNP will ride to a triumphant victory in the May election. Actually, even if she didn't survive they'd still end up as the largest party by a stretch.

    Scotland is a bit like Northern Ireland only with three completely shit Unionist parties and only one somewhat shit Nationalist party. That kind of set up isn't likely to lead to any close results.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,485
    rcs1000 said:


    The immunity doesn't disappear all in one go, it will slowly fade with time. (And may well last a decade, as tetanus, or for life, as with measels, polio, etc.)

    We'll have booster shots from time-to-time. Big deal.

    Around 15 million have an annual flu jab (I'm one of them). It may well be the annual Covid booster will be of a similar nature.

    I do think as vaccines evolve the period of immunity will increase so it could be a 5-year or 10-year period between vaccinations before too long. My concern is getting people to have the booster this winter (won't be an issue for the elderly or those most at risk so less to worry about).

    I've seen it theorised one of the reasons Spanish Flu mortality was so strong among the young was older people had some resistance from the Russian flu of 1889-90 which may well have been Covid-type in nature. Whether the Hong Kong Flu of the late 60s was similar in nature I leave to the immunologists.

    The advances in medical science have been such as to enable a response to Covid that is light years in advance of what was possible just 50 years ago let alone a century or more but it's a reminder these pandemics are not some new occurrence but have been a part of human history and will inevitably happen again.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,567
    Pagan2 said:

    At least if its warm you know its fresh
    There is just no way I am going to ask...
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    TimT said:

    I too have found Mr Meeks very frustrating. As you say, he is informed, intelligent and articulate. And on most issues, his points are well made and challenging, even when one does not agree. But then he has his moments when he makes wildly emotional and offensive remarks against anyone with whose views on certain issues, like Brexit, he disagrees - painting all Brexiters as racists, but then is very quick to take personal offense if someone gives anywhere near what he dishes out, or even has the temerity to point out his occasional viciousness.

    Part of the problem I am sure is this medium. I have heard from more than one person on this site how kind and generous he has been in person.

    My personal solution is to assume the best about him, read his comments, pass over those that cause offense swiftly, but basically no longer engage directly with him.
    I'm a PB dilettante, so I didn't know this gossip. I don't know if Mr. Meeks minds being discussed so I'll just say I agree with him about that unmentionable which causes feathers to fly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,824

    How did everybody enjoy the weather today?

    I went to an old friend's place (who has quite a huge plot so no problem with social distancing) to dig out and over about 100 square foot of bramble infested former vegetable patch for him, so he can grow veg again this year. He's a very keen gardener but can't physically manage that sort of job any more.

    I haven't done any exercise other than walking to the supermarket late at night since early November, so digging up bramble was hard. I had to stop every fifteen minutes or so for beer. I'm aching now, especially my left (vaxed) arm. But I'm feeling the best I have in months.

    The sun has been shining and I've had a vaccine. I feel alive again.

    I went for a fabulous boozy walk in Richmond Park with a good friend. We walked, then drank wine, then walked, then drank wine. I saw the amazing view of St Paul's Cathedral from "King Henry's Mound", which I had never heard of before. And the view is amazing: ten miles away, through an allee in the trees.

    One of the upsides of this terrible 13 months has been reforging friendships, and rediscovering, or even discovering, where I live: city and country
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,841

    SeanT used to gratuitously and hyperbolically insult anyone who didn't agree with him. Those insults were funny to read, but you knew it would be your turn the day after if you took issue with him on another point and engaged him on it.

    He was basically a dick. A funny, entertaining and insightful dick, but still a dick.

    I wonder where he is now, and whether he's mellowed over the last 10 years?
    Since he left, we can sadly do nothing butt-plug into our memories of the past.
  • "I particularly cherish the time he told me he didn't ‘give a tankard of warm donkey spunk’ what I thought of him"

    Sounds like a good basis of a BBC 1 Saturday evening gameshow. Couldn't be any worse that what's on at present.
    Might finally be worth tuning into one of the celebrity editions of the gameshows they insist upon doing too then.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,670
    edited February 2021

    And yet... Unless there really is a smoking gun still waiting to be discovered then Nicola Sturgeon will almost certainly survive, and the SNP will ride to a triumphant victory in the May election. Actually, even if she didn't survive they'd still end up as the largest party by a stretch.

    Scotland is a bit like Northern Ireland only with three completely shit Unionist parties and only one somewhat shit Nationalist party. That kind of set up isn't likely to lead to any close results.
    It comes down imo to whether the evidence Mr S alluded to stands up.

    If eg there is proof of a "far wider" network of influence / communication *after* the police investigation started, then that is quite serious.

    I wonder if they will pause for a day or two whilst AS' solicitor stumps up the docs and they absorb them.
This discussion has been closed.