I’m quite confident of rather long immunity. I believe others have posted about sars immunity lasting 20 years or so. Certainly we are now a year in with no evidence of widespread re infection. Also my colleague who had Covid in March 2020 mounted a very strong reaction on immunisation. A year is a minimum I’d think...
That wasn't the issue to which I was referring. The vaccines do two key things as I see it - one, if you catch the virus, the effects are substantially mitigated and two, you become significantly less able to transmit the virus. With these two keys in place, it's all about "returning to normal" (horrible concept, let's have a new normal, not the boring old normal).
Once we are all "cheek by jowl" as the Prime Minister once put it, the vaccines prevent the re-igniting of Covid but that works only as long as the vaccines work. Once the immunity declines or wears off, we'll be back to large outbreaks among people bunched together indoors in confined spaces. This isn't a risk for summer but it's a risk for autumn and next winter because we don't know how long the immunity provided by the vaccines will last.
The first vaccines were only administered less than 3 months ago - let's say where we are in six months.
Point is the immunity will be long lasting, so your scenarios won’t be a concern. But as you say, let’s wait and see.
I’m quite confident of rather long immunity. I believe others have posted about sars immunity lasting 20 years or so. Certainly we are now a year in with no evidence of widespread re infection. Also my colleague who had Covid in March 2020 mounted a very strong reaction on immunisation. A year is a minimum I’d think...
That wasn't the issue to which I was referring. The vaccines do two key things as I see it - one, if you catch the virus, the effects are substantially mitigated and two, you become significantly less able to transmit the virus. With these two keys in place, it's all about "returning to normal" (horrible concept, let's have a new normal, not the boring old normal).
Once we are all "cheek by jowl" as the Prime Minister once put it, the vaccines prevent the re-igniting of Covid but that works only as long as the vaccines work. Once the immunity declines or wears off, we'll be back to large outbreaks among people bunched together indoors in confined spaces. This isn't a risk for summer but it's a risk for autumn and next winter because we don't know how long the immunity provided by the vaccines will last.
The first vaccines were only administered less than 3 months ago - let's say where we are in six months.
The immunity doesn't disappear all in one go, it will slowly fade with time. (And may well last a decade, as tetanus, or for life, as with measels, polio, etc.)
We'll have booster shots from time-to-time. Big deal.
As an amateur immunologist, clearly the best kind, I would find it remarkable if those nifty T-Cells that will have been roused to action by the vaccine didn’t retain a memory of the virus for some considerable time.
We shouldn't be surprised by the increase in British willingness to get vaccinated. There's nothing as effective as stuffing it to the EU for encouraging Brits to do something.
I said to Dave the best way to win the referendum was to tell the public that the French wanted us to Leave.
Remain landslide.
This whole bashing the French thing is a peculiar middle class Tory obsession. There's a fair bit of suspicion even paranoia amongst the public towards our Gallic cousins but most people have got better things to do.
I agree. I absolutely love France, the country, and like the French; I thought I was alone on here, but maybe not. Since I started posting on here, I've never understood the animosity and, sometimes, bile aimed at the French. I guess some of it is meant to be amusing, but still. Most strange.
< hushed tones >
I secretly find it a bit childish too, though there are times when they deserve it, and Macron's recent behaviour certainly counts. We're rival siblings in a way, and on that subject doesn't Nero tell us, in Racine's Britannicus, 'j’embrasse mon rival, mais c’est pour l’étouffer'?
I see it as the banter of rivals.
Yes. Note also that if someone picks on the French it annoys us, and we defend them, because that’s our job.
Well in the past certainly, not so sure people would be so willing to go rescue europe again
I don't think things would have worked out well for us if we'd sued for peace with Hitler. War was - ultimately - very much to our benefit.
Was it? I mean it bankrupted us and cost us the India and most of the Empire.
It didn't cost us India and the Empire, because they were going to go anyway. We would have had a belligerent behemoth on our doorstep, and that would not be fun.
Left to their own devices without the UK sticking its nose in, the Reich would have cleaned up in all of Europe, finished off the Russians and then had all the time in the world to develop their own nuclear programme. With the UK looking on - rather helpless.
All without the USA poking its nose in too.
Hitler started with a view that we were one of his few legitimate allies. We may have just about been able to coexist. All the more reason to be proud of my grandparent’s generation for telling him to do one.
Absolutely, But Hitler's Germany ruling supreme from the Atlantic to the Russian Pacific would have dwarfed us in every resource and strategic advantage you could possibly imagine. I'm sure, although Hitler did have an admiration for the English gentry in particular, I'm sure that admiration wouldn't have stretched to giving the UK any beneficial treatment. We would have been a client-State, very much dependent on his goodwill.
I suppose one interesting counterfactual is quite now like a regime like the Nazis could have successfully held on to so many countries so aggressively. The 60s?
Also worth pondering how long it would have been, outside of a world war, before he was himself deposed by some of the other nazi leaders.
Finally, if we were out of it you have to wonder whether the Soviets would have chosen to open a front with Japan to get an alliance going with the US, assuming Pearl Harbour still happened.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Excellent post - welcome to the site!
Don't worry - Meeks will be back soon - and I am sure he can put you on the list!
We shouldn't be surprised by the increase in British willingness to get vaccinated. There's nothing as effective as stuffing it to the EU for encouraging Brits to do something.
I said to Dave the best way to win the referendum was to tell the public that the French wanted us to Leave.
Remain landslide.
This whole bashing the French thing is a peculiar middle class Tory obsession. There's a fair bit of suspicion even paranoia amongst the public towards our Gallic cousins but most people have got better things to do.
I agree. I absolutely love France, the country, and like the French; I thought I was alone on here, but maybe not. Since I started posting on here, I've never understood the animosity and, sometimes, bile aimed at the French. I guess some of it is meant to be amusing, but still. Most strange.
< hushed tones >
I secretly find it a bit childish too, though there are times when they deserve it, and Macron's recent behaviour certainly counts. We're rival siblings in a way, and on that subject doesn't Nero tell us, in Racine's Britannicus, 'j’embrasse mon rival, mais c’est pour l’étouffer'?
I see it as the banter of rivals.
Yes. Note also that if someone picks on the French it annoys us, and we defend them, because that’s our job.
Well in the past certainly, not so sure people would be so willing to go rescue europe again
I don't think things would have worked out well for us if we'd sued for peace with Hitler. War was - ultimately - very much to our benefit.
I didn't claim we shouldn't have however now the eu in general and france in particular have buddied up with china which is the next enemy of the west.....not so sure we should help out
I'm struggling with your scenario. You worry about us having to rescue Europe from an enemy of the West, which is fair enough. But then you identify that enemy as China, and say that France and Germany are allied with it. So, who is China going to invade? Finland?
The most likely military threat to europe is russia, if russia invades europe I suggest we let them call on china. Russia and china are both enemies of the west. Fighting a war over europe will weaken both.
So, you actually want the Continent of Europe to be more in bed with your stated Enemy of the West, China?
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
I’m quite confident of rather long immunity. I believe others have posted about sars immunity lasting 20 years or so. Certainly we are now a year in with no evidence of widespread re infection. Also my colleague who had Covid in March 2020 mounted a very strong reaction on immunisation. A year is a minimum I’d think...
That wasn't the issue to which I was referring. The vaccines do two key things as I see it - one, if you catch the virus, the effects are substantially mitigated and two, you become significantly less able to transmit the virus. With these two keys in place, it's all about "returning to normal" (horrible concept, let's have a new normal, not the boring old normal).
Once we are all "cheek by jowl" as the Prime Minister once put it, the vaccines prevent the re-igniting of Covid but that works only as long as the vaccines work. Once the immunity declines or wears off, we'll be back to large outbreaks among people bunched together indoors in confined spaces. This isn't a risk for summer but it's a risk for autumn and next winter because we don't know how long the immunity provided by the vaccines will last.
The first vaccines were only administered less than 3 months ago - let's say where we are in six months.
Point is the immunity will be long lasting, so your scenarios won’t be a concern. But as you say, let’s wait and see.
Hopefully, when everyone’s been done by May or June and the immediate crisis has passed, attention might turn to studying the ongoing immunity of those who were at the front of the queue for vaccines in December and January.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Good first post Hoc.
It’ll be all downhill from here though. That’s the way of it on pb... welcome
We shouldn't be surprised by the increase in British willingness to get vaccinated. There's nothing as effective as stuffing it to the EU for encouraging Brits to do something.
I said to Dave the best way to win the referendum was to tell the public that the French wanted us to Leave.
Remain landslide.
This whole bashing the French thing is a peculiar middle class Tory obsession. There's a fair bit of suspicion even paranoia amongst the public towards our Gallic cousins but most people have got better things to do.
I agree. I absolutely love France, the country, and like the French; I thought I was alone on here, but maybe not. Since I started posting on here, I've never understood the animosity and, sometimes, bile aimed at the French. I guess some of it is meant to be amusing, but still. Most strange.
< hushed tones >
I secretly find it a bit childish too, though there are times when they deserve it, and Macron's recent behaviour certainly counts. We're rival siblings in a way, and on that subject doesn't Nero tell us, in Racine's Britannicus, 'j’embrasse mon rival, mais c’est pour l’étouffer'?
I see it as the banter of rivals.
Yes. Note also that if someone picks on the French it annoys us, and we defend them, because that’s our job.
Well in the past certainly, not so sure people would be so willing to go rescue europe again
I don't think things would have worked out well for us if we'd sued for peace with Hitler. War was - ultimately - very much to our benefit.
I didn't claim we shouldn't have however now the eu in general and france in particular have buddied up with china which is the next enemy of the west.....not so sure we should help out
I'm struggling with your scenario. You worry about us having to rescue Europe from an enemy of the West, which is fair enough. But then you identify that enemy as China, and say that France and Germany are allied with it. So, who is China going to invade? Finland?
The most likely military threat to europe is russia, if russia invades europe I suggest we let them call on china. Russia and china are both enemies of the west. Fighting a war over europe will weaken both.
So, you actually want the Continent of Europe to be more in bed with your stated Enemy of the West, China?
No I am saying if china gets in bed with europe which is what appears to be happening currently. If russia invades let china help defend them. Both russia and china get weakened by the conflict. We should stand to the side because frankly we aren't going to make a difference.
Two weakened enemies is better surely than two full strength ones
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
I’m quite confident of rather long immunity. I believe others have posted about sars immunity lasting 20 years or so. Certainly we are now a year in with no evidence of widespread re infection. Also my colleague who had Covid in March 2020 mounted a very strong reaction on immunisation. A year is a minimum I’d think...
That wasn't the issue to which I was referring. The vaccines do two key things as I see it - one, if you catch the virus, the effects are substantially mitigated and two, you become significantly less able to transmit the virus. With these two keys in place, it's all about "returning to normal" (horrible concept, let's have a new normal, not the boring old normal).
Once we are all "cheek by jowl" as the Prime Minister once put it, the vaccines prevent the re-igniting of Covid but that works only as long as the vaccines work. Once the immunity declines or wears off, we'll be back to large outbreaks among people bunched together indoors in confined spaces. This isn't a risk for summer but it's a risk for autumn and next winter because we don't know how long the immunity provided by the vaccines will last.
The first vaccines were only administered less than 3 months ago - let's say where we are in six months.
The immunity doesn't disappear all in one go, it will slowly fade with time. (And may well last a decade, as tetanus, or for life, as with measels, polio, etc.)
We'll have booster shots from time-to-time. Big deal.
As an amateur immunologist, clearly the best kind, I would find it remarkable if those nifty T-Cells that will have been roused to action by the vaccine didn’t retain a memory of the virus for some considerable time.
I take that confidence stance from reading stuff like this - which I’ve been doing with increasing regularity in recent months - https://www.jimmunol.org/content/181/8/5490
That it has been used before suggests that the committee can issue it.
So one question is what has Salmond added - perhaps identifying that it can be used with "any person", and flagging that his solicitor would comply, and not quibble as the Crown Office has done.
Presumably if the notice is broadly drawn, there may be extra docs which appear.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
Yes
He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again
I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
That it has been used before suggests that the committee can issue it.
So one question is what has Salmond added - perhaps identifying that it can be used with "any person", and flagging that his solicitor would comply, and not quibble as the Crown Office has done.
Presumably if the notice is broadly drawn, there may be extra docs which appear.
“Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, all the documents are already in this envelope with your address on”.
Some people have - quite literally - gone mad in the last few years.
James Delingpole has gone from interesting eccentric, with whom one could agree with on some things, and at least understand where he was coming from on others, to complete and utter loon.
Now there's a clear agument in favour of the monarchy for @TSE:
Queen: 1 Wankers: 0
Delingpole appears to upset that the Queen is recommending her subjects take the vaccine so as to avoid getting seriously ill (and possibly dying) of Coronavirus.
Some people have - quite literally - gone mad in the last few years.
James Delingpole has gone from interesting eccentric, with whom one could agree with on some things, and at least understand where he was coming from on others, to complete and utter loon.
A lot of well known commentators have slid downwards on the ickeness scale and devolved into loons over the last 2 years, also true of some that comment here
We shouldn't be surprised by the increase in British willingness to get vaccinated. There's nothing as effective as stuffing it to the EU for encouraging Brits to do something.
I said to Dave the best way to win the referendum was to tell the public that the French wanted us to Leave.
Remain landslide.
This whole bashing the French thing is a peculiar middle class Tory obsession. There's a fair bit of suspicion even paranoia amongst the public towards our Gallic cousins but most people have got better things to do.
I agree. I absolutely love France, the country, and like the French; I thought I was alone on here, but maybe not. Since I started posting on here, I've never understood the animosity and, sometimes, bile aimed at the French. I guess some of it is meant to be amusing, but still. Most strange.
< hushed tones >
I secretly find it a bit childish too, though there are times when they deserve it, and Macron's recent behaviour certainly counts. We're rival siblings in a way, and on that subject doesn't Nero tell us, in Racine's Britannicus, 'j’embrasse mon rival, mais c’est pour l’étouffer'?
I see it as the banter of rivals.
Yes. Note also that if someone picks on the French it annoys us, and we defend them, because that’s our job.
Well in the past certainly, not so sure people would be so willing to go rescue europe again
I don't think things would have worked out well for us if we'd sued for peace with Hitler. War was - ultimately - very much to our benefit.
Indeed.
Dominion by C J Sansom paints a very believable picture of how things might well have been had Britain sued for peace with Hitler. Good book.
Not read that one, but given the quality of his other books, I can well believe that.
Some people have - quite literally - gone mad in the last few years.
James Delingpole has gone from interesting eccentric, with whom one could agree with on some things, and at least understand where he was coming from on others, to complete and utter loon.
A lot of well known commentators have slid downwards on the ickeness scale and devolved into loons over the last 2 years, also true of some that comment here
Now there's a clear agument in favour of the monarchy for @TSE:
Queen: 1 Wankers: 0
Delingpole appears to upset that the Queen is recommending her subjects take the vaccine so as to avoid getting seriously ill (and possibly dying) of Coronavirus.
Some people have - quite literally - gone mad in the last few years.
James Delingpole has gone from interesting eccentric, with whom one could agree with on some things, and at least understand where he was coming from on others, to complete and utter loon.
A lot of well known commentators have slid downwards on the ickeness scale and devolved into loons over the last 2 years, also true of some that comment here
That’s scary. Like seeing an unwelcome mirror of what we had. All joking about the French aside we should do anything and everything we can to help.
We cannot do anything. They have vaccines to give now, some at least, and are in a better position of protection than we were in early January, but the rest is down to them taking measures.
We shouldn't be surprised by the increase in British willingness to get vaccinated. There's nothing as effective as stuffing it to the EU for encouraging Brits to do something.
I said to Dave the best way to win the referendum was to tell the public that the French wanted us to Leave.
Remain landslide.
This whole bashing the French thing is a peculiar middle class Tory obsession. There's a fair bit of suspicion even paranoia amongst the public towards our Gallic cousins but most people have got better things to do.
I agree. I absolutely love France, the country, and like the French; I thought I was alone on here, but maybe not. Since I started posting on here, I've never understood the animosity and, sometimes, bile aimed at the French. I guess some of it is meant to be amusing, but still. Most strange.
< hushed tones >
I secretly find it a bit childish too, though there are times when they deserve it, and Macron's recent behaviour certainly counts. We're rival siblings in a way, and on that subject doesn't Nero tell us, in Racine's Britannicus, 'j’embrasse mon rival, mais c’est pour l’étouffer'?
I see it as the banter of rivals.
Yes. Note also that if someone picks on the French it annoys us, and we defend them, because that’s our job.
Well in the past certainly, not so sure people would be so willing to go rescue europe again
I don't think things would have worked out well for us if we'd sued for peace with Hitler. War was - ultimately - very much to our benefit.
Was it? I mean it bankrupted us and cost us the India and most of the Empire.
It didn't cost us India and the Empire, because they were going to go anyway. We would have had a belligerent behemoth on our doorstep, and that would not be fun.
Left to their own devices without the UK sticking its nose in, the Reich would have cleaned up in all of Europe, finished off the Russians and then had all the time in the world to develop their own nuclear programme. With the UK looking on - rather helpless.
All without the USA poking its nose in too.
Hitler started with a view that we were one of his few legitimate allies. We may have just about been able to coexist. All the more reason to be proud of my grandparent’s generation for telling him to do one.
Absolutely, But Hitler's Germany ruling supreme from the Atlantic to the Russian Pacific would have dwarfed us in every resource and strategic advantage you could possibly imagine. I'm sure, although Hitler did have an admiration for the English gentry in particular, I'm sure that admiration wouldn't have stretched to giving the UK any beneficial treatment. We would have been a client-State, very much dependent on his goodwill.
I suppose one interesting counterfactual is quite now like a regime like the Nazis could have successfully held on to so many countries so aggressively. The 60s?
Also worth pondering how long it would have been, outside of a world war, before he was himself deposed by some of the other nazi leaders.
Finally, if we were out of it you have to wonder whether the Soviets would have chosen to open a front with Japan to get an alliance going with the US, assuming Pearl Harbour still happened.
The counterfactuals are, thank goodness, something we have the luxury of exploring, if only to appreciate what we have today.
With no meaningful resistance operations co-ordinated and supplied by Allies, it wouldn't have taken very long for any memory of pre-invasion Europe to fade being counteracted by complete suppression and propaganda. By the 1960's you would have had a new generation educated and indoctrinated in Nazi ideology across the Greater Reich with France etc being mere provinces of a Germania. History would have been re-written and any subversion brutally extinguished.
The Soviets would have been taken out far too quickly to have any meaningful alliance with the US who would have kept well away from interfering anyway.
And yes, I agree Hitler may very well have personally undermined from within, but unlikely. Whomever took over would have to have paid due reverence as the whole she-bang was based on the cult of personality.
Some people have - quite literally - gone mad in the last few years.
James Delingpole has gone from interesting eccentric, with whom one could agree with on some things, and at least understand where he was coming from on others, to complete and utter loon.
It’s been refreshing to see British politicians of all stripes broadly come together on the public health stuff. Gives me hope that when it matters we still have the traditional old, pragmatic ability to unite on what matters.
Some people have - quite literally - gone mad in the last few years.
James Delingpole has gone from interesting eccentric, with whom one could agree with on some things, and at least understand where he was coming from on others, to complete and utter loon.
A lot of well known commentators have slid downwards on the ickeness scale and devolved into loons over the last 2 years, also true of some that comment here
They key was to start out as a loon, so I couldn't devolve.
We shouldn't be surprised by the increase in British willingness to get vaccinated. There's nothing as effective as stuffing it to the EU for encouraging Brits to do something.
I said to Dave the best way to win the referendum was to tell the public that the French wanted us to Leave.
Remain landslide.
This whole bashing the French thing is a peculiar middle class Tory obsession. There's a fair bit of suspicion even paranoia amongst the public towards our Gallic cousins but most people have got better things to do.
I agree. I absolutely love France, the country, and like the French; I thought I was alone on here, but maybe not. Since I started posting on here, I've never understood the animosity and, sometimes, bile aimed at the French. I guess some of it is meant to be amusing, but still. Most strange.
< hushed tones >
I secretly find it a bit childish too, though there are times when they deserve it, and Macron's recent behaviour certainly counts. We're rival siblings in a way, and on that subject doesn't Nero tell us, in Racine's Britannicus, 'j’embrasse mon rival, mais c’est pour l’étouffer'?
I see it as the banter of rivals.
Yes. Note also that if someone picks on the French it annoys us, and we defend them, because that’s our job.
Well in the past certainly, not so sure people would be so willing to go rescue europe again
I don't think things would have worked out well for us if we'd sued for peace with Hitler. War was - ultimately - very much to our benefit.
I didn't claim we shouldn't have however now the eu in general and france in particular have buddied up with china which is the next enemy of the west.....not so sure we should help out
I'm struggling with your scenario. You worry about us having to rescue Europe from an enemy of the West, which is fair enough. But then you identify that enemy as China, and say that France and Germany are allied with it. So, who is China going to invade? Finland?
The most likely military threat to europe is russia, if russia invades europe I suggest we let them call on china. Russia and china are both enemies of the west. Fighting a war over europe will weaken both.
I think a key element hear is increasing power of Eastern Europe, and Poland etc providing a different balance of 'weight' in the EU. Being close to Russia as they can afford it they will be more committed to a strong defence.
Some people have - quite literally - gone mad in the last few years.
James Delingpole has gone from interesting eccentric, with whom one could agree with on some things, and at least understand where he was coming from on others, to complete and utter loon.
A lot of well known commentators have slid downwards on the ickeness scale and devolved into loons over the last 2 years, also true of some that comment here
Nah, you were always batshit crazy.
Not crazy I just don't live in your reality
My reality - looks out of window, sees sunny skies - looks pretty good right now
The article seems confusingly written to me, with talk of fines for breaches of Covid regs, assurance vaccination would not be mandatory, before quite a ways down talking about legality of compulsory vaccination.
I see the Guardian says the Begum ruling is “controversial”
This is one of those special Guardian word-definitions, where “controversial” means “it dismays three people in Islington”
The view of the court about the respect to be given to the views and judgment of Ministers is something of a throw back and may cause ripples. It is not easy to reconcile that view with the unanimous view of the Court in the Prorogation case, to take an example.
The court over-reached with the prorogation case; this time they are exactly right. These difficult executive decisions must be made by people who are democratically accountable
These two cases are easily reconciled.
In both cases the court found it had the power to intervene. It took the view that it should intervene in the prorogation case because the government was taking the piss (which it was): the government's refusal to give any account under oath for its actions may well have proven fatal to its case. You seem to have forgotten that at the time of the purported prorogation Britain had a Prime Minister who had not been elected at a general election, who did not command a majority in Parliament and indeed had not won a vote in Parliament pursuing a policy that had not been put before the British public and using prorogation as a tool to impose that irreversibly.
In the present case it took the view that the government had acted within the wide latitude granted to governments when taking decisions. Which, given that the Home Secretary was exercising statutory powers given to them in an extreme case, is not all that surprising.
The main consequence of the prorogation case was political. The public decided, unlike in the USA, that they were AOK with self-coups. As a result Britain now has a government with a light attachment to democracy and an extreme aversion to any form of accountability enthusiastically supported by a self-radicalised posse who are quite willing to overlook anything it does, up to and including the avoidable deaths of tens of thousands.
Nice example of ensuring people wont pay attention to your solidly put points because you wanted to indulge in unrelated theatrical condemnation.
Now you can pretend to be affronted when people ignore your good first paras, even though that was presumably your intention and you want Brexiteers to rage at you so you can respond in turn.
Well, each of us has fun in their own way i suppose.
The last bit is the important bit. Tens of thousands of people have died avoidable deaths, but the government's supporters simply don't think that's as important as supporting the government.
I am staggered at the self-degradation of these partisans.
Pot meet kettle. I assume the Italians, French, Germans, Americans (need I go on?) who died were all unavoidable deaths? Or maybe. just maybe there is a nasty virus in worldwide circulation causing epic problems to all governments. Ours has not performed well, I think most would accept that, but they are not the only ones to struggle in this pandemic. At least we have one of the most open and trustworthy reporting systems. How many Chinese died in Wuhan province? How many Spaniards have died (unclear reporting, and a suggestion that that true figure is far higher than the official one? I get that you hate Brexit and the current government, but you are one of the most blinkered on this site. You are an intelligent man, but your own lack of self awareness is stark.
Britain has done exceptionally badly, in the bottommost tier of countries in its response to Covid-19. Only the most crazed zealots would suggest otherwise.
Sadly, many of those crazed zealots infest this site. Here's the sort of problem that they're determined to avoid discussing:
I raised this this morning but the hypothesis of that comment that this is something that could have been avoided is at best unproven. As far as we can tell what happened was that Kent variant took a much greater hold in this country than elsewhere, it was far more infectious and possibly marginally more dangerous.
Your default assumption that this was a consequence of government incompetence or ineptitude may prove to be correct but it is an assumption. The UK has the best genomic analysis in the world. By that time (December) it had amongst the best test and trace and was one of the very highest levels of testing. And yet we were still caught with our trousers down. Incompetence? Maybe but it is possible that we did our very best and were simply unlucky.
My memory is good enough to remember early December, when cases in Britain were obviously rising and the government was resisting tightening up. I remember the Prime Minister mocking the Leader of the Opposition for suggesting the same thing.
It was obvious what was happening at the time. And untold thousands paid with their lives because the Prime Minister couldn't bear to do the unpopular but necessary thing.
I'm sure you're diligently noting down in your ledger the untold thousands of EU citizens who will perish completely unnecessarily due to the EU, and various Member State governments, putting political ideology and dogma ahead of the lives of their citizens.
Your position the other night was that this was a pandemic and as such a natural phenomenon for which no government could be blamed for anything at all. Have you yet moved on from that ridiculous position?
Not at all. I'm just naively assuming you must be doing as I mentioned as a logical extension of your criticisms of the UK government.
If you're not then it doesn't bother me, but it would be interesting to know. Unless of course there's axes to be ground.
I don't blame any government for anything as it happens. No government is deliberately seeking to kill their citizens. All are doing what they consider to be the best at the time they make any decision, in rapidly changing situations, with new and constantly evolving scientific evidence or theories.
But if there's an axe to be ground then so be it. Fill your boots. It won't assuage your evident hate of the UK government though. Use your vote instead. If enough people agree with you then democracy will have its say.
I have a feeling though that it won't be your current angst that'll be the undoing of Johnson.
So you do agree that the outrageous number of avoidable deaths that the British government is responsible for is something that they should be held accountable for?
No I don't as I don't consider them to be "outrageous" or ultimately what I would consider to be "avoidable".
Comparatively high to others, at this precise moment in time, yes. Expected, yes.
We have a habit of making our governments "accountable" every 4 or 5 years. If your belief is shared by the majority of people come judgement day then you'll be the first to celebrate I'm sure.
Expected? The fourth worst in the world? This country is well and truly up shit creek if your disgusting complacency about such disastrous performance is widely shared.
Except fourth in the world is not true. There is no semblance of truth to it whatsoever so only someone trying to lie to score partisan points would use that claim.
4th is a frequently quoted (by reputable sources) current estimate of where we stand. It can be disputed - as all precise country comparisons can be - but it's not a bad faith claim. You, OTOH, with nonsense such as "there is no semblance of truth to it whatsoever", are lying.
Show me how you can get 4th from that? Or do you think we should be using the guesstimate trackers that we know are missing half or more of some countries deaths?
Which matters more for you: how many people have actually died (excess deaths) or using figures you know are wrong because they put Britain in a bad light (recorded Covid19 deaths)?
I have two very strong suspicions.
a) if the 'official' Covid deaths on Worldometer showed the UK with a much lower death rate than others, you would be trumpeting the government's success ad infinitum, regardless of what excess deaths showed (currently).
b) you will emphatically deny a).
If I did and I was using Worldometer figures that were BS then you would be right to correct the record and point out that they're bullshit.
Everyone agreed early on, before figures showed anything, that the one gold standard true metric during a pandemic is excess deaths. Because some countries (like the UK) do a good job of testing for and accurately recording cause of death, others do not.
What matters more to you:
a) how many have actually died in real life?
b) how many Worldometers claims have died?
a). But neither you, nor I, know how we compare relative to other countries on that measure yet, and we won't for some time. So you going on about it is no different from those going on about b).
We don't know everything but there's a substantial amount of data there.
Italy until 30/11/20 had 157 excess deaths per 100k population. Britain until 22/01/21 had 160 excess deaths per 100k population.
Given the figures that have come out from Italy in December and January it seems reasonable to expect more than 3 deaths per 100k in the eight weeks they have missing from the data.
(i) "I disagree with the table showing we are 4th worst in the world on covid outcome. There are other ways of comparing that I think give a fairer result."
(ii) "4th in the world is not true. There is no semblance of truth to it whatsoever."
Language is all there is on an internet forum and you are abusing it here. It's fine - you write what you want - but so will I.
And here I use it to charge and convict you of arguing in bad faith, aka LYING.
No you are acting in bad faith.
There is categorically no semblance of truth to the Worldometers figures. Just because someone compiles dodgy data does not give it a semblance of truth.
When Italy are recording two excess deaths for every one Covid death there is no good faith reason at all to be using the Worldometers data when accurate alternatives are out there.
It is like a few days ago when Leon claimed that France had a 25% death toll from Covid19 because that is what Worldometers gives as the closed case death rate.
Anybody still using Worldometers as their primary source and trying to make political claims based on that is either malicious or ignorant.
Worldometers table is not "unfair" or "disagreeable" it is wrong and using wrong data leads to wrong outcomes. Garbage in, garbage out.
Much deflection rather than admit hyperbolic language. Ah well.
Some people have - quite literally - gone mad in the last few years.
James Delingpole has gone from interesting eccentric, with whom one could agree with on some things, and at least understand where he was coming from on others, to complete and utter loon.
A lot of well known commentators have slid downwards on the ickeness scale and devolved into loons over the last 2 years, also true of some that comment here
Nah, you were always batshit crazy.
Not crazy I just don't live in your reality
My reality - looks out of window, sees sunny skies - looks pretty good right now
Looks out the window and sees a naked olivia wilde rising over the lush jungles of jupiter....did I win?
Now there's a clear agument in favour of the monarchy for @TSE:
Queen: 1 Wankers: 0
Delingpole appears to upset that the Queen is recommending her subjects take the vaccine so as to avoid getting seriously ill (and possibly dying) of Coronavirus.
Cuckoo.
It's sad in a way, but at least he's given the world a new SI unit of twattishness:
'The way you laughed when that old man fell over in the road registered at almost 0.5 delingpoles'...
We shouldn't be surprised by the increase in British willingness to get vaccinated. There's nothing as effective as stuffing it to the EU for encouraging Brits to do something.
I said to Dave the best way to win the referendum was to tell the public that the French wanted us to Leave.
Remain landslide.
This whole bashing the French thing is a peculiar middle class Tory obsession. There's a fair bit of suspicion even paranoia amongst the public towards our Gallic cousins but most people have got better things to do.
I agree. I absolutely love France, the country, and like the French; I thought I was alone on here, but maybe not. Since I started posting on here, I've never understood the animosity and, sometimes, bile aimed at the French. I guess some of it is meant to be amusing, but still. Most strange.
I was a Francophile up until the age of 15.
I voluntarily chose to learn the French language, I love the food, the country but when in 1994 as a callow school student my school arranged a trip to Normandy to coincide with the 50th anniversary of D-Day.
I was genuinely moved and humbled walking around places like the American and Commonwealth cemeteries in places like Colleville-sur-Mer and Bayeux, seeing the cliffs at Pointe du Hoc, it had a profound effect on me, it showed war isn't all glory but lots of sacrifice.
One evening on that trip, I heard a bunch of Frenchmen laughing and making derogatory comments the Anglos and Los Rosbifs, it pissed me off, I got the feeling that they would have preferred to have remained under German control than liberated by the Anglos.
Hence my lifelong dislike of the French.
The French and the British are the only two countries which, I think, have a mutual inferiority complex. Hence the bizarre relationship.
We like to diss them, but deep down we fear they are sexier, more chic, posher, possibly cleverer, we definitely envy them their warmer, vaster country, more beautiful landscapes and towns, certainly until recently we envied them their food and wine and joie de vivre - tho this last stuff has faded
The French like to diss us, but deep down they fear we are manlier, cleverer, more virile, REAL conquerors, they definitely envy the way we triumphed in the global culture wars, spreading the English language around the world as French has withered away. And they despise us for saving them in World War 2, and having never been vanquished by the Germans
I am very sorry to hear that Mr Meeks has departed this site. I always read his threads and he has a good insight into what is going on. I hope his withdrawal is temporary.
I am very sorry to hear that Mr Meeks has departed this site. I always read his threads and he has a good insight into what is going on. I hope his withdrawal is temporary.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
Yes
He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again
I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
He’s a frustrating character. Clearly clever, successful, and with strong views. Also prone to be a bit over the top and histrionic, and lacking in self awareness. If you post on pb you must accept that not everyone will agree with you, and some will reply to your comments, often unpleasantly, as he did to me today. Yet pb remains a remarkable place to go for insight far beyond the mainstream media, and with all viewpoints. Running away is a sad loss.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
Yes
He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again
I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
He’s a frustrating character. Clearly clever, successful, and with strong views. Also prone to be a bit over the top and histrionic, and lacking in self awareness. If you post on pb you must accept that not everyone will agree with you, and some will reply to your comments, often unpleasantly, as he did to me today. Yet pb remains a remarkable place to go for insight far beyond the mainstream media, and with all viewpoints. Running away is a sad loss.
I wouldn't class it as running away, more a case of "Do i need this shit".. answer No.
You used to be able to block people you did not want to converse with..
I see the Guardian says the Begum ruling is “controversial”
This is one of those special Guardian word-definitions, where “controversial” means “it dismays three people in Islington”
The view of the court about the respect to be given to the views and judgment of Ministers is something of a throw back and may cause ripples. It is not easy to reconcile that view with the unanimous view of the Court in the Prorogation case, to take an example.
The court over-reached with the prorogation case; this time they are exactly right. These difficult executive decisions must be made by people who are democratically accountable
These two cases are easily reconciled.
In both cases the court found it had the power to intervene. It took the view that it should intervene in the prorogation case because the government was taking the piss (which it was): the government's refusal to give any account under oath for its actions may well have proven fatal to its case. You seem to have forgotten that at the time of the purported prorogation Britain had a Prime Minister who had not been elected at a general election, who did not command a majority in Parliament and indeed had not won a vote in Parliament pursuing a policy that had not been put before the British public and using prorogation as a tool to impose that irreversibly.
In the present case it took the view that the government had acted within the wide latitude granted to governments when taking decisions. Which, given that the Home Secretary was exercising statutory powers given to them in an extreme case, is not all that surprising.
The main consequence of the prorogation case was political. The public decided, unlike in the USA, that they were AOK with self-coups. As a result Britain now has a government with a light attachment to democracy and an extreme aversion to any form of accountability enthusiastically supported by a self-radicalised posse who are quite willing to overlook anything it does, up to and including the avoidable deaths of tens of thousands.
Nice example of ensuring people wont pay attention to your solidly put points because you wanted to indulge in unrelated theatrical condemnation.
Now you can pretend to be affronted when people ignore your good first paras, even though that was presumably your intention and you want Brexiteers to rage at you so you can respond in turn.
Well, each of us has fun in their own way i suppose.
The last bit is the important bit. Tens of thousands of people have died avoidable deaths, but the government's supporters simply don't think that's as important as supporting the government.
I am staggered at the self-degradation of these partisans.
Pot meet kettle. I assume the Italians, French, Germans, Americans (need I go on?) who died were all unavoidable deaths? Or maybe. just maybe there is a nasty virus in worldwide circulation causing epic problems to all governments. Ours has not performed well, I think most would accept that, but they are not the only ones to struggle in this pandemic. At least we have one of the most open and trustworthy reporting systems. How many Chinese died in Wuhan province? How many Spaniards have died (unclear reporting, and a suggestion that that true figure is far higher than the official one? I get that you hate Brexit and the current government, but you are one of the most blinkered on this site. You are an intelligent man, but your own lack of self awareness is stark.
Britain has done exceptionally badly, in the bottommost tier of countries in its response to Covid-19. Only the most crazed zealots would suggest otherwise.
Sadly, many of those crazed zealots infest this site. Here's the sort of problem that they're determined to avoid discussing:
I raised this this morning but the hypothesis of that comment that this is something that could have been avoided is at best unproven. As far as we can tell what happened was that Kent variant took a much greater hold in this country than elsewhere, it was far more infectious and possibly marginally more dangerous.
Your default assumption that this was a consequence of government incompetence or ineptitude may prove to be correct but it is an assumption. The UK has the best genomic analysis in the world. By that time (December) it had amongst the best test and trace and was one of the very highest levels of testing. And yet we were still caught with our trousers down. Incompetence? Maybe but it is possible that we did our very best and were simply unlucky.
My memory is good enough to remember early December, when cases in Britain were obviously rising and the government was resisting tightening up. I remember the Prime Minister mocking the Leader of the Opposition for suggesting the same thing.
It was obvious what was happening at the time. And untold thousands paid with their lives because the Prime Minister couldn't bear to do the unpopular but necessary thing.
I'm sure you're diligently noting down in your ledger the untold thousands of EU citizens who will perish completely unnecessarily due to the EU, and various Member State governments, putting political ideology and dogma ahead of the lives of their citizens.
Your position the other night was that this was a pandemic and as such a natural phenomenon for which no government could be blamed for anything at all. Have you yet moved on from that ridiculous position?
Not at all. I'm just naively assuming you must be doing as I mentioned as a logical extension of your criticisms of the UK government.
If you're not then it doesn't bother me, but it would be interesting to know. Unless of course there's axes to be ground.
I don't blame any government for anything as it happens. No government is deliberately seeking to kill their citizens. All are doing what they consider to be the best at the time they make any decision, in rapidly changing situations, with new and constantly evolving scientific evidence or theories.
But if there's an axe to be ground then so be it. Fill your boots. It won't assuage your evident hate of the UK government though. Use your vote instead. If enough people agree with you then democracy will have its say.
I have a feeling though that it won't be your current angst that'll be the undoing of Johnson.
So you do agree that the outrageous number of avoidable deaths that the British government is responsible for is something that they should be held accountable for?
No I don't as I don't consider them to be "outrageous" or ultimately what I would consider to be "avoidable".
Comparatively high to others, at this precise moment in time, yes. Expected, yes.
We have a habit of making our governments "accountable" every 4 or 5 years. If your belief is shared by the majority of people come judgement day then you'll be the first to celebrate I'm sure.
Expected? The fourth worst in the world? This country is well and truly up shit creek if your disgusting complacency about such disastrous performance is widely shared.
Except fourth in the world is not true. There is no semblance of truth to it whatsoever so only someone trying to lie to score partisan points would use that claim.
4th is a frequently quoted (by reputable sources) current estimate of where we stand. It can be disputed - as all precise country comparisons can be - but it's not a bad faith claim. You, OTOH, with nonsense such as "there is no semblance of truth to it whatsoever", are lying.
Show me how you can get 4th from that? Or do you think we should be using the guesstimate trackers that we know are missing half or more of some countries deaths?
Which matters more for you: how many people have actually died (excess deaths) or using figures you know are wrong because they put Britain in a bad light (recorded Covid19 deaths)?
I have two very strong suspicions.
a) if the 'official' Covid deaths on Worldometer showed the UK with a much lower death rate than others, you would be trumpeting the government's success ad infinitum, regardless of what excess deaths showed (currently).
b) you will emphatically deny a).
If I did and I was using Worldometer figures that were BS then you would be right to correct the record and point out that they're bullshit.
Everyone agreed early on, before figures showed anything, that the one gold standard true metric during a pandemic is excess deaths. Because some countries (like the UK) do a good job of testing for and accurately recording cause of death, others do not.
What matters more to you:
a) how many have actually died in real life?
b) how many Worldometers claims have died?
a). But neither you, nor I, know how we compare relative to other countries on that measure yet, and we won't for some time. So you going on about it is no different from those going on about b).
We don't know everything but there's a substantial amount of data there.
Italy until 30/11/20 had 157 excess deaths per 100k population. Britain until 22/01/21 had 160 excess deaths per 100k population.
Given the figures that have come out from Italy in December and January it seems reasonable to expect more than 3 deaths per 100k in the eight weeks they have missing from the data.
(i) "I disagree with the table showing we are 4th worst in the world on covid outcome. There are other ways of comparing that I think give a fairer result."
(ii) "4th in the world is not true. There is no semblance of truth to it whatsoever."
Language is all there is on an internet forum and you are abusing it here. It's fine - you write what you want - but so will I.
And here I use it to charge and convict you of arguing in bad faith, aka LYING.
No you are acting in bad faith.
There is categorically no semblance of truth to the Worldometers figures. Just because someone compiles dodgy data does not give it a semblance of truth.
When Italy are recording two excess deaths for every one Covid death there is no good faith reason at all to be using the Worldometers data when accurate alternatives are out there.
It is like a few days ago when Leon claimed that France had a 25% death toll from Covid19 because that is what Worldometers gives as the closed case death rate.
Anybody still using Worldometers as their primary source and trying to make political claims based on that is either malicious or ignorant.
Worldometers table is not "unfair" or "disagreeable" it is wrong and using wrong data leads to wrong outcomes. Garbage in, garbage out.
Much deflection rather than admit hyperbolic language. Ah well.
It isn't hyperbolic.
You either believe in using data with integrity, or you do not. If you know data is completely fallacious - like Worldometers claiming 25% of French covid patients die, or that the UK has the 4th highest death toll per capita - then you need to sort that out and get accurate data.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
Yes
He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again
I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
He’s a frustrating character. Clearly clever, successful, and with strong views. Also prone to be a bit over the top and histrionic, and lacking in self awareness. If you post on pb you must accept that not everyone will agree with you, and some will reply to your comments, often unpleasantly, as he did to me today. Yet pb remains a remarkable place to go for insight far beyond the mainstream media, and with all viewpoints. Running away is a sad loss.
As Paul Gauguin said: "Where Do We Come From? What Are We? Where Are We Going?"
I went to an old friend's place (who has quite a huge plot so no problem with social distancing) to dig out and over about 100 square foot of bramble infested former vegetable patch for him, so he can grow veg again this year. He's a very keen gardener but can't physically manage that sort of job any more.
I haven't done any exercise other than walking to the supermarket late at night since early November, so digging up bramble was hard. I had to stop every fifteen minutes or so for beer. I'm aching now, especially my left (vaxed) arm. But I'm feeling the best I have in months.
The sun has been shining and I've had a vaccine. I feel alive again.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
Yes
He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again
I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
He’s a frustrating character. Clearly clever, successful, and with strong views. Also prone to be a bit over the top and histrionic, and lacking in self awareness. If you post on pb you must accept that not everyone will agree with you, and some will reply to your comments, often unpleasantly, as he did to me today. Yet pb remains a remarkable place to go for insight far beyond the mainstream media, and with all viewpoints. Running away is a sad loss.
As Paul Gauguin said: "Where Do We Come From? What Are We? Where Are We Going?"
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
It was one of the more spectacular PB Flounces. And I have seen a few.
He came on and started his "you are all evil Nazi zombies without souls, trying to kill my partner with Brexit" shtick, (while denying his ire was anything to do with Brexit), then got in a huff when people took a tiny bit of offence, and off he went.
It was the Butthurt of The Meeks, REDUX
TBH it quite perplexes me. He is clearly a very intelligent, sensitive guy, and he has been through difficult times. But, really, calm down
I hope he returns with his excellent articulate headers, and often perceptive comments. But he just has to get over Brexit. It is done.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
Yes
He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again
I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
It was one of the more spectacular PB Flounces. And I have seen a few.
He came on and started his "you are all evil Nazi zombies without souls, trying to kill my partner with Brexit" shtick, (while denying his ire was anything to do with Brexit), then got in a huff when people took a tiny bit of offence, and off he went.
It was the Butthurt of The Meeks, REDUX
TBH it quite perplexes me. He is clearly a very intelligent, sensitive guy, and he has been through difficult times. But, really, calm down
I hope he returns with his excellent articulate headers, and often perceptive comments. But he just has to get over Brexit. It is done.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
Yes
He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again
I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
He’s a frustrating character. Clearly clever, successful, and with strong views. Also prone to be a bit over the top and histrionic, and lacking in self awareness. If you post on pb you must accept that not everyone will agree with you, and some will reply to your comments, often unpleasantly, as he did to me today. Yet pb remains a remarkable place to go for insight far beyond the mainstream media, and with all viewpoints. Running away is a sad loss.
I wouldn't class it as running away, more a case of "Do i need this shit".. answer No.
You used to be able to block people you did not want to converse with..
Except he came on to vent his rage about the governments lamentable failure to avoid ‘avoidable’ deaths, and bemoan what he calls government cheer leaders. He came looking responses, then left when he got them.
Some people have - quite literally - gone mad in the last few years.
James Delingpole has gone from interesting eccentric, with whom one could agree with on some things, and at least understand where he was coming from on others, to complete and utter loon.
A lot of well known commentators have slid downwards on the ickeness scale and devolved into loons over the last 2 years, also true of some that comment here
Nah, you were always batshit crazy.
Not crazy I just don't live in your reality
My reality - looks out of window, sees sunny skies - looks pretty good right now
Looks out the window and sees a naked olivia wilde rising over the lush jungles of jupiter....did I win?
I went to an old friend's place (who has quite a huge plot so no problem with social distancing) to dig out and over about 100 square foot of bramble infested former vegetable patch for him, so he can grow veg again this year. He's a very keen gardener but can't physically manage that sort of job any more.
I haven't done any exercise other than walking to the supermarket late at night since early November, so digging up bramble was hard. I had to stop every fifteen minutes or so for beer. I'm aching now, especially my left (vaxed) arm. But I'm feeling the best I have in months.
The sun has been shining and I've had a vaccine. I feel alive again.
Welcome to the site.
Sounds like you had a good day, that's nice. Still chilly here, hopefully will get more spring weather soon.
Is your gardening friend related to an exotic flint knapper by any chance?
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
It was one of the more spectacular PB Flounces. And I have seen a few.
He came on and started his "you are all evil Nazi zombies without souls, trying to kill my partner with Brexit" shtick, (while denying his ire was anything to do with Brexit), then got in a huff when people took a tiny bit of offence, and off he went.
It was the Butthurt of The Meeks, REDUX
TBH it quite perplexes me. He is clearly a very intelligent, sensitive guy, and he has been through difficult times. But, really, calm down
I hope he returns with his excellent articulate headers, and often perceptive comments. But he just has to get over Brexit. It is done.
We shouldn't be surprised by the increase in British willingness to get vaccinated. There's nothing as effective as stuffing it to the EU for encouraging Brits to do something.
I said to Dave the best way to win the referendum was to tell the public that the French wanted us to Leave.
Remain landslide.
This whole bashing the French thing is a peculiar middle class Tory obsession. There's a fair bit of suspicion even paranoia amongst the public towards our Gallic cousins but most people have got better things to do.
I agree. I absolutely love France, the country, and like the French; I thought I was alone on here, but maybe not. Since I started posting on here, I've never understood the animosity and, sometimes, bile aimed at the French. I guess some of it is meant to be amusing, but still. Most strange.
< hushed tones >
I secretly find it a bit childish too, though there are times when they deserve it, and Macron's recent behaviour certainly counts. We're rival siblings in a way, and on that subject doesn't Nero tell us, in Racine's Britannicus, 'j’embrasse mon rival, mais c’est pour l’étouffer'?
I see it as the banter of rivals.
Yes. Note also that if someone picks on the French it annoys us, and we defend them, because that’s our job.
Well in the past certainly, not so sure people would be so willing to go rescue europe again
I don't think things would have worked out well for us if we'd sued for peace with Hitler. War was - ultimately - very much to our benefit.
I didn't claim we shouldn't have however now the eu in general and france in particular have buddied up with china which is the next enemy of the west.....not so sure we should help out
I'm struggling with your scenario. You worry about us having to rescue Europe from an enemy of the West, which is fair enough. But then you identify that enemy as China, and say that France and Germany are allied with it. So, who is China going to invade? Finland?
Does the tale of the scorpion and the frog not apply here?
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
Yes
He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again
I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
He’s a frustrating character. Clearly clever, successful, and with strong views. Also prone to be a bit over the top and histrionic, and lacking in self awareness. If you post on pb you must accept that not everyone will agree with you, and some will reply to your comments, often unpleasantly, as he did to me today. Yet pb remains a remarkable place to go for insight far beyond the mainstream media, and with all viewpoints. Running away is a sad loss.
As Paul Gauguin said: "Where Do We Come From? What Are We? Where Are We Going?"
I am very sorry to hear that Mr Meeks has departed this site. I always read his threads and he has a good insight into what is going on. I hope his withdrawal is temporary.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
It was one of the more spectacular PB Flounces. And I have seen a few.
He came on and started his "you are all evil Nazi zombies without souls, trying to kill my partner with Brexit" shtick, (while denying his ire was anything to do with Brexit), then got in a huff when people took a tiny bit of offence, and off he went.
It was the Butthurt of The Meeks, REDUX
TBH it quite perplexes me. He is clearly a very intelligent, sensitive guy, and he has been through difficult times. But, really, calm down
I hope he returns with his excellent articulate headers, and often perceptive comments. But he just has to get over Brexit. It is done.
Ah, if you’d only been here in the early days, when a bloke called SeanT used to flounce off about once every 36 hours - oftener, if he was drunk.
But he came back.
Until one day suddenly he didn’t and we were no longer regaled with his amazing commentary.
I particularly cherish the time he told me he didn't ‘give a tankard of warm donkey spunk’ what I thought of him.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
It was one of the more spectacular PB Flounces. And I have seen a few.
He came on and started his "you are all evil Nazi zombies without souls, trying to kill my partner with Brexit" shtick, (while denying his ire was anything to do with Brexit), then got in a huff when people took a tiny bit of offence, and off he went.
It was the Butthurt of The Meeks, REDUX
TBH it quite perplexes me. He is clearly a very intelligent, sensitive guy, and he has been through difficult times. But, really, calm down
I hope he returns with his excellent articulate headers, and often perceptive comments. But he just has to get over Brexit. It is done.
Let’s hope he’s not reduced to returning under a flimsily constructed new identity. That would be pitiful.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
Yes
He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again
I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
He’s a frustrating character. Clearly clever, successful, and with strong views. Also prone to be a bit over the top and histrionic, and lacking in self awareness. If you post on pb you must accept that not everyone will agree with you, and some will reply to your comments, often unpleasantly, as he did to me today. Yet pb remains a remarkable place to go for insight far beyond the mainstream media, and with all viewpoints. Running away is a sad loss.
As Paul Gauguin said: "Where Do We Come From? What Are We? Where Are We Going?"
I too have found Mr Meeks very frustrating. As you say, he is informed, intelligent and articulate. And on most issues, his points are well made and challenging, even when one does not agree. But then he has his moments when he makes wildly emotional and offensive remarks against anyone with whose views on certain issues, like Brexit, he disagrees - painting all Brexiters as racists, but then is very quick to take personal offense if someone gives anywhere near what he dishes out, or even has the temerity to point out his occasional viciousness.
Part of the problem I am sure is this medium. I have heard from more than one person on this site how kind and generous he has been in person.
My personal solution is to assume the best about him, read his comments, pass over those that cause offense swiftly, but basically no longer engage directly with him.
I went to an old friend's place (who has quite a huge plot so no problem with social distancing) to dig out and over about 100 square foot of bramble infested former vegetable patch for him, so he can grow veg again this year. He's a very keen gardener but can't physically manage that sort of job any more.
I haven't done any exercise other than walking to the supermarket late at night since early November, so digging up bramble was hard. I had to stop every fifteen minutes or so for beer. I'm aching now, especially my left (vaxed) arm. But I'm feeling the best I have in months.
The sun has been shining and I've had a vaccine. I feel alive again.
Welcome to the site.
Sounds like you had a good day, that's nice. Still chilly here, hopefully will get more spring weather soon.
Is your gardening friend related to an exotic flint knapper by any chance?
Ha! No, he's now what might be termed an indoor grower.
We shouldn't be surprised by the increase in British willingness to get vaccinated. There's nothing as effective as stuffing it to the EU for encouraging Brits to do something.
I said to Dave the best way to win the referendum was to tell the public that the French wanted us to Leave.
Remain landslide.
This whole bashing the French thing is a peculiar middle class Tory obsession. There's a fair bit of suspicion even paranoia amongst the public towards our Gallic cousins but most people have got better things to do.
I agree. I absolutely love France, the country, and like the French; I thought I was alone on here, but maybe not. Since I started posting on here, I've never understood the animosity and, sometimes, bile aimed at the French. I guess some of it is meant to be amusing, but still. Most strange.
< hushed tones >
I secretly find it a bit childish too, though there are times when they deserve it, and Macron's recent behaviour certainly counts. We're rival siblings in a way, and on that subject doesn't Nero tell us, in Racine's Britannicus, 'j’embrasse mon rival, mais c’est pour l’étouffer'?
I see it as the banter of rivals.
Yes. Note also that if someone picks on the French it annoys us, and we defend them, because that’s our job.
Well in the past certainly, not so sure people would be so willing to go rescue europe again
I don't think things would have worked out well for us if we'd sued for peace with Hitler. War was - ultimately - very much to our benefit.
Was it? I mean it bankrupted us and cost us the India and most of the Empire.
It didn't cost us India and the Empire, because they were going to go anyway. We would have had a belligerent behemoth on our doorstep, and that would not be fun.
Left to their own devices without the UK sticking its nose in, the Reich would have cleaned up in all of Europe, finished off the Russians and then had all the time in the world to develop their own nuclear programme. With the UK looking on - rather helpless.
All without the USA poking its nose in too.
Hitler started with a view that we were one of his few legitimate allies. We may have just about been able to coexist. All the more reason to be proud of my grandparent’s generation for telling him to do one.
Absolutely, But Hitler's Germany ruling supreme from the Atlantic to the Russian Pacific would have dwarfed us in every resource and strategic advantage you could possibly imagine. I'm sure, although Hitler did have an admiration for the English gentry in particular, I'm sure that admiration wouldn't have stretched to giving the UK any beneficial treatment. We would have been a client-State, very much dependent on his goodwill.
I suppose one interesting counterfactual is quite now like a regime like the Nazis could have successfully held on to so many countries so aggressively. The 60s?
Also worth pondering how long it would have been, outside of a world war, before he was himself deposed by some of the other nazi leaders.
Finally, if we were out of it you have to wonder whether the Soviets would have chosen to open a front with Japan to get an alliance going with the US, assuming Pearl Harbour still happened.
The counterfactuals are, thank goodness, something we have the luxury of exploring, if only to appreciate what we have today.
With no meaningful resistance operations co-ordinated and supplied by Allies, it wouldn't have taken very long for any memory of pre-invasion Europe to fade being counteracted by complete suppression and propaganda. By the 1960's you would have had a new generation educated and indoctrinated in Nazi ideology across the Greater Reich with France etc being mere provinces of a Germania. History would have been re-written and any subversion brutally extinguished.
The Soviets would have been taken out far too quickly to have any meaningful alliance with the US who would have kept well away from interfering anyway.
And yes, I agree Hitler may very well have personally undermined from within, but unlikely. Whomever took over would have to have paid due reverence as the whole she-bang was based on the cult of personality.
The Man in the High Castle is a deeply flawed TV drama, which declines from season one, onwards.
But my God, season 1. It was a brilliant portrayal of that counterfactual: what if Hitler had won.
Chilling. And also far from impossible: if Nazi Germany, with its superb scientists, had designed an A-bomb by 1943, they would have won, and indeed defeated America, quite easily.
If Hitler had known about the potential of the A bomb, within Germany, and waited three years to start his war, he would likely have conquered the entire world.
We shouldn't be surprised by the increase in British willingness to get vaccinated. There's nothing as effective as stuffing it to the EU for encouraging Brits to do something.
I said to Dave the best way to win the referendum was to tell the public that the French wanted us to Leave.
Remain landslide.
This whole bashing the French thing is a peculiar middle class Tory obsession. There's a fair bit of suspicion even paranoia amongst the public towards our Gallic cousins but most people have got better things to do.
I agree. I absolutely love France, the country, and like the French; I thought I was alone on here, but maybe not. Since I started posting on here, I've never understood the animosity and, sometimes, bile aimed at the French. I guess some of it is meant to be amusing, but still. Most strange.
I was a Francophile up until the age of 15.
I voluntarily chose to learn the French language, I love the food, the country but when in 1994 as a callow school student my school arranged a trip to Normandy to coincide with the 50th anniversary of D-Day.
I was genuinely moved and humbled walking around places like the American and Commonwealth cemeteries in places like Colleville-sur-Mer and Bayeux, seeing the cliffs at Pointe du Hoc, it had a profound effect on me, it showed war isn't all glory but lots of sacrifice.
One evening on that trip, I heard a bunch of Frenchmen laughing and making derogatory comments the Anglos and Los Rosbifs, it pissed me off, I got the feeling that they would have preferred to have remained under German control than liberated by the Anglos.
Hence my lifelong dislike of the French.
At 16 I went on a lads cycling holiday, camping in Normandy. We found the natives very friendly, sometimes all night...
I am very sorry to hear that Mr Meeks has departed this site. I always read his threads and he has a good insight into what is going on. I hope his withdrawal is temporary.
Seems I have missed a bit of a PB 'event'.
It's a shame. Hope he comes back.
I am not sure he has left this site, rather than undertaking not to post in response to Philip. Or maybe I misread his last post.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
It was one of the more spectacular PB Flounces. And I have seen a few.
He came on and started his "you are all evil Nazi zombies without souls, trying to kill my partner with Brexit" shtick, (while denying his ire was anything to do with Brexit), then got in a huff when people took a tiny bit of offence, and off he went.
It was the Butthurt of The Meeks, REDUX
TBH it quite perplexes me. He is clearly a very intelligent, sensitive guy, and he has been through difficult times. But, really, calm down
I hope he returns with his excellent articulate headers, and often perceptive comments. But he just has to get over Brexit. It is done.
Ah, if you’d only been here in the early days, when a bloke called SeanT used to flounce off about once every 36 hours - oftener, if he was drunk.
But he came back.
Until one day suddenly he didn’t and we were no longer regaled with his amazing commentary.
I particularly cherish the time he told me he didn't ‘give a tankard of warm donkey spunk’ what I thought of him.
I've just watched a fantastic and hilarious piece of BBC Comedy. Utterly utterly brilliant. First rate scriptwriting throughout, had me in stitches from start to finish, and was masterfully and decidedly unWoke: it was Private Plane from Blackadder Goes Forth. The one with Squadron Leader Lord Flashheart.
Admittedly it was made over 30 years ago, and isn't part of their contemporary output, but it's a reminder that they used to do Funny.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
Yes
He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again
I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
He’s a frustrating character. Clearly clever, successful, and with strong views. Also prone to be a bit over the top and histrionic, and lacking in self awareness. If you post on pb you must accept that not everyone will agree with you, and some will reply to your comments, often unpleasantly, as he did to me today. Yet pb remains a remarkable place to go for insight far beyond the mainstream media, and with all viewpoints. Running away is a sad loss.
As Paul Gauguin said: "Where Do We Come From? What Are We? Where Are We Going?"
I too have found Mr Meeks very frustrating. As you say, he is informed, intelligent and articulate. And on most issues, his points are well made and challenging, even when one does not agree. But then he has his moments when he makes wildly emotional and offensive remarks against anyone with whose views on certain issues, like Brexit, he disagrees - painting all Brexiters as racists, but then is very quick to take personal offense if someone gives anywhere near what he dishes out, or even has the temerity to point out his occasional viciousness.
Part of the problem I am sure is this medium. I have heard from more than one person on this site how kind and generous he has been in person.
My personal solution is to assume the best about him, read his comments, pass over those that cause offense swiftly, but basically no longer engage directly with him.
That is my very recent personal experience with a lovely exchange of private e mails between us
I'll say one thing for Mr Meeks, he never dissed Radiohead.
No one can diss radiohead....there are no words in any language that come near enough to being able to describe them. So until we invent those words....
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
It was one of the more spectacular PB Flounces. And I have seen a few.
He came on and started his "you are all evil Nazi zombies without souls, trying to kill my partner with Brexit" shtick, (while denying his ire was anything to do with Brexit), then got in a huff when people took a tiny bit of offence, and off he went.
It was the Butthurt of The Meeks, REDUX
TBH it quite perplexes me. He is clearly a very intelligent, sensitive guy, and he has been through difficult times. But, really, calm down
I hope he returns with his excellent articulate headers, and often perceptive comments. But he just has to get over Brexit. It is done.
Ah, if you’d only been here in the early days, when a bloke called SeanT used to flounce off about once every 36 hours - oftener, if he was drunk.
But he came back.
Until one day suddenly he didn’t and we were no longer regaled with his amazing commentary.
I particularly cherish the time he told me he didn't ‘give a tankard of warm donkey spunk’ what I thought of him.
At least if its warm you know its fresh
"I particularly cherish the time he told me he didn't ‘give a tankard of warm donkey spunk’ what I thought of him"
Sounds like a good basis of a BBC 1 Saturday evening gameshow. Couldn't be any worse that what's on at present.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
It was one of the more spectacular PB Flounces. And I have seen a few.
He came on and started his "you are all evil Nazi zombies without souls, trying to kill my partner with Brexit" shtick, (while denying his ire was anything to do with Brexit), then got in a huff when people took a tiny bit of offence, and off he went.
It was the Butthurt of The Meeks, REDUX
TBH it quite perplexes me. He is clearly a very intelligent, sensitive guy, and he has been through difficult times. But, really, calm down
I hope he returns with his excellent articulate headers, and often perceptive comments. But he just has to get over Brexit. It is done.
Ah, if you’d only been here in the early days, when a bloke called SeanT used to flounce off about once every 36 hours - oftener, if he was drunk.
But he came back.
Until one day suddenly he didn’t and we were no longer regaled with his amazing commentary.
I particularly cherish the time he told me he didn't ‘give a tankard of warm donkey spunk’ what I thought of him.
SeanT used to gratuitously and hyperbolically insult anyone who didn't agree with him. Those insults were funny to read, but you knew it would be your turn the day after if you took issue with him on another point and engaged him on it.
He was basically a dick. A funny, entertaining and insightful dick, but still a dick.
I wonder where he is now, and whether he's mellowed over the last 10 years?
It's like a Stalinist show trial where they do a pretendy bit in the middle when they seem to be transparent.... and then it's back to the whitewash
It beggars belief that any democrat in Scotland, Yes, No, Indy, Tory, whatever, can tolerate this spectacle
And yet... Unless there really is a smoking gun still waiting to be discovered then Nicola Sturgeon will almost certainly survive, and the SNP will ride to a triumphant victory in the May election. Actually, even if she didn't survive they'd still end up as the largest party by a stretch.
Scotland is a bit like Northern Ireland only with three completely shit Unionist parties and only one somewhat shit Nationalist party. That kind of set up isn't likely to lead to any close results.
The immunity doesn't disappear all in one go, it will slowly fade with time. (And may well last a decade, as tetanus, or for life, as with measels, polio, etc.)
We'll have booster shots from time-to-time. Big deal.
Around 15 million have an annual flu jab (I'm one of them). It may well be the annual Covid booster will be of a similar nature.
I do think as vaccines evolve the period of immunity will increase so it could be a 5-year or 10-year period between vaccinations before too long. My concern is getting people to have the booster this winter (won't be an issue for the elderly or those most at risk so less to worry about).
I've seen it theorised one of the reasons Spanish Flu mortality was so strong among the young was older people had some resistance from the Russian flu of 1889-90 which may well have been Covid-type in nature. Whether the Hong Kong Flu of the late 60s was similar in nature I leave to the immunologists.
The advances in medical science have been such as to enable a response to Covid that is light years in advance of what was possible just 50 years ago let alone a century or more but it's a reminder these pandemics are not some new occurrence but have been a part of human history and will inevitably happen again.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
It was one of the more spectacular PB Flounces. And I have seen a few.
He came on and started his "you are all evil Nazi zombies without souls, trying to kill my partner with Brexit" shtick, (while denying his ire was anything to do with Brexit), then got in a huff when people took a tiny bit of offence, and off he went.
It was the Butthurt of The Meeks, REDUX
TBH it quite perplexes me. He is clearly a very intelligent, sensitive guy, and he has been through difficult times. But, really, calm down
I hope he returns with his excellent articulate headers, and often perceptive comments. But he just has to get over Brexit. It is done.
Ah, if you’d only been here in the early days, when a bloke called SeanT used to flounce off about once every 36 hours - oftener, if he was drunk.
But he came back.
Until one day suddenly he didn’t and we were no longer regaled with his amazing commentary.
I particularly cherish the time he told me he didn't ‘give a tankard of warm donkey spunk’ what I thought of him.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
Yes
He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again
I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
He’s a frustrating character. Clearly clever, successful, and with strong views. Also prone to be a bit over the top and histrionic, and lacking in self awareness. If you post on pb you must accept that not everyone will agree with you, and some will reply to your comments, often unpleasantly, as he did to me today. Yet pb remains a remarkable place to go for insight far beyond the mainstream media, and with all viewpoints. Running away is a sad loss.
As Paul Gauguin said: "Where Do We Come From? What Are We? Where Are We Going?"
I too have found Mr Meeks very frustrating. As you say, he is informed, intelligent and articulate. And on most issues, his points are well made and challenging, even when one does not agree. But then he has his moments when he makes wildly emotional and offensive remarks against anyone with whose views on certain issues, like Brexit, he disagrees - painting all Brexiters as racists, but then is very quick to take personal offense if someone gives anywhere near what he dishes out, or even has the temerity to point out his occasional viciousness.
Part of the problem I am sure is this medium. I have heard from more than one person on this site how kind and generous he has been in person.
My personal solution is to assume the best about him, read his comments, pass over those that cause offense swiftly, but basically no longer engage directly with him.
I'm a PB dilettante, so I didn't know this gossip. I don't know if Mr. Meeks minds being discussed so I'll just say I agree with him about that unmentionable which causes feathers to fly.
I went to an old friend's place (who has quite a huge plot so no problem with social distancing) to dig out and over about 100 square foot of bramble infested former vegetable patch for him, so he can grow veg again this year. He's a very keen gardener but can't physically manage that sort of job any more.
I haven't done any exercise other than walking to the supermarket late at night since early November, so digging up bramble was hard. I had to stop every fifteen minutes or so for beer. I'm aching now, especially my left (vaxed) arm. But I'm feeling the best I have in months.
The sun has been shining and I've had a vaccine. I feel alive again.
I went for a fabulous boozy walk in Richmond Park with a good friend. We walked, then drank wine, then walked, then drank wine. I saw the amazing view of St Paul's Cathedral from "King Henry's Mound", which I had never heard of before. And the view is amazing: ten miles away, through an allee in the trees.
One of the upsides of this terrible 13 months has been reforging friendships, and rediscovering, or even discovering, where I live: city and country
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
It was one of the more spectacular PB Flounces. And I have seen a few.
He came on and started his "you are all evil Nazi zombies without souls, trying to kill my partner with Brexit" shtick, (while denying his ire was anything to do with Brexit), then got in a huff when people took a tiny bit of offence, and off he went.
It was the Butthurt of The Meeks, REDUX
TBH it quite perplexes me. He is clearly a very intelligent, sensitive guy, and he has been through difficult times. But, really, calm down
I hope he returns with his excellent articulate headers, and often perceptive comments. But he just has to get over Brexit. It is done.
Ah, if you’d only been here in the early days, when a bloke called SeanT used to flounce off about once every 36 hours - oftener, if he was drunk.
But he came back.
Until one day suddenly he didn’t and we were no longer regaled with his amazing commentary.
I particularly cherish the time he told me he didn't ‘give a tankard of warm donkey spunk’ what I thought of him.
SeanT used to gratuitously and hyperbolically insult anyone who didn't agree with him. Those insults were funny to read, but you knew it would be your turn the day after if you took issue with him on another point and engaged him on it.
He was basically a dick. A funny, entertaining and insightful dick, but still a dick.
I wonder where he is now, and whether he's mellowed over the last 10 years?
Since he left, we can sadly do nothing butt-plug into our memories of the past.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
It was one of the more spectacular PB Flounces. And I have seen a few.
He came on and started his "you are all evil Nazi zombies without souls, trying to kill my partner with Brexit" shtick, (while denying his ire was anything to do with Brexit), then got in a huff when people took a tiny bit of offence, and off he went.
It was the Butthurt of The Meeks, REDUX
TBH it quite perplexes me. He is clearly a very intelligent, sensitive guy, and he has been through difficult times. But, really, calm down
I hope he returns with his excellent articulate headers, and often perceptive comments. But he just has to get over Brexit. It is done.
Ah, if you’d only been here in the early days, when a bloke called SeanT used to flounce off about once every 36 hours - oftener, if he was drunk.
But he came back.
Until one day suddenly he didn’t and we were no longer regaled with his amazing commentary.
I particularly cherish the time he told me he didn't ‘give a tankard of warm donkey spunk’ what I thought of him.
At least if its warm you know its fresh
"I particularly cherish the time he told me he didn't ‘give a tankard of warm donkey spunk’ what I thought of him"
Sounds like a good basis of a BBC 1 Saturday evening gameshow. Couldn't be any worse that what's on at present.
Might finally be worth tuning into one of the celebrity editions of the gameshows they insist upon doing too then.
It's like a Stalinist show trial where they do a pretendy bit in the middle when they seem to be transparent.... and then it's back to the whitewash
It beggars belief that any democrat in Scotland, Yes, No, Indy, Tory, whatever, can tolerate this spectacle
And yet... Unless there really is a smoking gun still waiting to be discovered then Nicola Sturgeon will almost certainly survive, and the SNP will ride to a triumphant victory in the May election. Actually, even if she didn't survive they'd still end up as the largest party by a stretch.
Scotland is a bit like Northern Ireland only with three completely shit Unionist parties and only one somewhat shit Nationalist party. That kind of set up isn't likely to lead to any close results.
It comes down imo to whether the evidence Mr S alluded to stands up.
If eg there is proof of a "far wider" network of influence / communication *after* the police investigation started, then that is quite serious.
I wonder if they will pause for a day or two whilst AS' solicitor stumps up the docs and they absorb them.
Comments
Also worth pondering how long it would have been, outside of a world war, before he was himself deposed by some of the other nazi leaders.
Finally, if we were out of it you have to wonder whether the Soviets would have chosen to open a front with Japan to get an alliance going with the US, assuming Pearl Harbour still happened.
Don't worry - Meeks will be back soon - and I am sure he can put you on the list!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
welcome
https://twitter.com/bbcsarahsmith/status/1365399553634144258?s=21
Two weakened enemies is better surely than two full strength ones
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/22/scottish-parliament-orders-prosecutors-to-release-salmond-leak-evidence
That it has been used before suggests that the committee can issue it.
So one question is what has Salmond added - perhaps identifying that it can be used with "any person", and flagging that his solicitor would comply, and not quibble as the Crown Office has done.
Presumably if the notice is broadly drawn, there may be extra docs which appear.
https://twitter.com/JamesDelingpole/status/1365404292614602766?s=20
Queen: 1
Wankers: 0
He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again
I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
James Delingpole has gone from interesting eccentric, with whom one could agree with on some things, and at least understand where he was coming from on others, to complete and utter loon.
https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2021/02/23/galicia-paves-the-way-for-fines-of-up-e60000-for-anti-vaxxers/
That's not one of them.
Cuckoo.
With no meaningful resistance operations co-ordinated and supplied by Allies, it wouldn't have taken very long for any memory of pre-invasion Europe to fade being counteracted by complete suppression and propaganda. By the 1960's you would have had a new generation educated and indoctrinated in Nazi ideology across the Greater Reich with France etc being mere provinces of a Germania. History would have been re-written and any subversion brutally extinguished.
The Soviets would have been taken out far too quickly to have any meaningful alliance with the US who would have kept well away from interfering anyway.
And yes, I agree Hitler may very well have personally undermined from within, but unlikely. Whomever took over would have to have paid due reverence as the whole she-bang was based on the cult of personality.
Progress made, some way still to go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi4sq5ZTdTk
Come to think of it, is death and life secular?
Delingpole is an argument for rejoining the EU as he was a Leaver.
As a Stone Roses fan this pains me.
'The way you laughed when that old man fell over in the road registered at almost 0.5 delingpoles'...
We like to diss them, but deep down we fear they are sexier, more chic, posher, possibly cleverer, we definitely envy them their warmer, vaster country, more beautiful landscapes and towns, certainly until recently we envied them their food and wine and joie de vivre - tho this last stuff has faded
The French like to diss us, but deep down they fear we are manlier, cleverer, more virile, REAL conquerors, they definitely envy the way we triumphed in the global culture wars, spreading the English language around the world as French has withered away. And they despise us for saving them in World War 2, and having never been vanquished by the Germans
It's an enjoyably complex relationship
You used to be able to block people you did not want to converse with..
It beggars belief that any democrat in Scotland, Yes, No, Indy, Tory, whatever, can tolerate this spectacle
You either believe in using data with integrity, or you do not. If you know data is completely fallacious - like Worldometers claiming 25% of French covid patients die, or that the UK has the 4th highest death toll per capita - then you need to sort that out and get accurate data.
"Where Do We Come From? What Are We? Where Are We Going?"
I went to an old friend's place (who has quite a huge plot so no problem with social distancing) to dig out and over about 100 square foot of bramble infested former vegetable patch for him, so he can grow veg again this year. He's a very keen gardener but can't physically manage that sort of job any more.
I haven't done any exercise other than walking to the supermarket late at night since early November, so digging up bramble was hard. I had to stop every fifteen minutes or so for beer. I'm aching now, especially my left (vaxed) arm. But I'm feeling the best I have in months.
The sun has been shining and I've had a vaccine. I feel alive again.
He came on and started his "you are all evil Nazi zombies without souls, trying to kill my partner with Brexit" shtick, (while denying his ire was anything to do with Brexit), then got in a huff when people took a tiny bit of offence, and off he went.
It was the Butthurt of The Meeks, REDUX
TBH it quite perplexes me. He is clearly a very intelligent, sensitive guy, and he has been through difficult times. But, really, calm down
I hope he returns with his excellent articulate headers, and often perceptive comments. But he just has to get over Brexit. It is done.
I do not understand this portentous business of announcing with flourishing trumpets that you will not be posting any more.
No-one is that important. If you don't want to post, then ... err ... just don't post. That's it.
Alastair is a good guy.
Sounds like you had a good day, that's nice. Still chilly here, hopefully will get more spring weather soon.
Is your gardening friend related to an exotic flint knapper by any chance?
https://tinyurl.com/yunsven9
It's a shame. Hope he comes back.
But he came back.
Until one day suddenly he didn’t and we were no longer regaled with his amazing commentary.
I particularly cherish the time he told me he didn't ‘give a tankard of warm donkey spunk’ what I thought of him.
Part of the problem I am sure is this medium. I have heard from more than one person on this site how kind and generous he has been in person.
My personal solution is to assume the best about him, read his comments, pass over those that cause offense swiftly, but basically no longer engage directly with him.
But my God, season 1. It was a brilliant portrayal of that counterfactual: what if Hitler had won.
Chilling. And also far from impossible: if Nazi Germany, with its superb scientists, had designed an A-bomb by 1943, they would have won, and indeed defeated America, quite easily.
If Hitler had known about the potential of the A bomb, within Germany, and waited three years to start his war, he would likely have conquered the entire world.
Maybe you met up with the grumpy parents.
(Nicola, not ScottP)
Admittedly it was made over 30 years ago, and isn't part of their contemporary output, but it's a reminder that they used to do Funny.
Sounds like a good basis of a BBC 1 Saturday evening gameshow. Couldn't be any worse that what's on at present.
He was basically a dick. A funny, entertaining and insightful dick, but still a dick.
I wonder where he is now, and whether he's mellowed over the last 10 years?
Scotland is a bit like Northern Ireland only with three completely shit Unionist parties and only one somewhat shit Nationalist party. That kind of set up isn't likely to lead to any close results.
I do think as vaccines evolve the period of immunity will increase so it could be a 5-year or 10-year period between vaccinations before too long. My concern is getting people to have the booster this winter (won't be an issue for the elderly or those most at risk so less to worry about).
I've seen it theorised one of the reasons Spanish Flu mortality was so strong among the young was older people had some resistance from the Russian flu of 1889-90 which may well have been Covid-type in nature. Whether the Hong Kong Flu of the late 60s was similar in nature I leave to the immunologists.
The advances in medical science have been such as to enable a response to Covid that is light years in advance of what was possible just 50 years ago let alone a century or more but it's a reminder these pandemics are not some new occurrence but have been a part of human history and will inevitably happen again.
One of the upsides of this terrible 13 months has been reforging friendships, and rediscovering, or even discovering, where I live: city and country
If eg there is proof of a "far wider" network of influence / communication *after* the police investigation started, then that is quite serious.
I wonder if they will pause for a day or two whilst AS' solicitor stumps up the docs and they absorb them.