From the discussion on here yesterday I find it hard to believe that many posers on here do not know anyone from Labours current shadow cabinet as they are very astute. So I guess they would know Angela Raynor Jon Ashworth Lisa Nancy Ed Millibad David Lamy Emily Thornberry. Maybe not Nick Thomas Symonds.
Ed Milibad. Oh dear.
That one brought home the bacon.
Edit - where is Thornberry these days? You hardly ever hear of her now and yet under Corbyn she was one of Labour’s few capable performers.
In charge of Shadow Fleg Acquisition...... If there's an ounce of humour in SKS.
From the discussion on here yesterday I find it hard to believe that many posers on here do not know anyone from Labours current shadow cabinet as they are very astute. So I guess they would know Angela Raynor Jon Ashworth Lisa Nancy Ed Millibad David Lamy Emily Thornberry. Maybe not Nick Thomas Symonds.
Ed Milibad. Oh dear.
That one brought home the bacon.
Edit - where is Thornberry these days? You hardly ever hear of her now and yet under Corbyn she was one of Labour’s few capable performers.
In charge of Shadow Fleg Acquisition...... If there's an ounce of humour in SKS.
From the discussion on here yesterday I find it hard to believe that many posers on here do not know anyone from Labours current shadow cabinet as they are very astute. So I guess they would know Angela Raynor Jon Ashworth Lisa Nancy Ed Millibad David Lamy Emily Thornberry. Maybe not Nick Thomas Symonds.
Ed Milibad. Oh dear.
That one brought home the bacon.
Edit - where is Thornberry these days? You hardly ever hear of her now and yet under Corbyn she was one of Labour’s few capable performers.
In charge of Shadow Fleg Acquisition...... If there's an ounce of humour in SKS.
Don’t you think she’d be cross with such a role?
Do you prefer Lisa Nandy as shadow FS ?
TBH, I haven’t heard much from her. Whether that’s because she hasn’t said much or simply because I’ve had no time to listen I don’t know.
But whichever it is, simply for that reason I would have to say ‘no.’
Some think it clearly is, others argue it's a coincidence. But arguably the latter (which is obviously intended as a defence) is possibly worse.
The symbols that the Nazis adopted didn't come about by chance. They were at the heart of their movement and the image they were trying to project. Nazi imitators are not as scary as the real thing. Apart from anything else because they are relatively easy to oppose for obvious reasons. Few mainstream politicians are going to willingly identify as being a Nazi.
But Republicans increasingly adopting Nazi like imagery by coincidence speaks to them actually morphing into the real thing. Philosophically in mind and deed.
Looks more like the SNP symbol to me
I'll give them a pass and point out that there's has curves
From the discussion on here yesterday I find it hard to believe that many posters on here do not know anyone from Labours current shadow cabinet as they are very astute. So I guess they would know Angela Raynor Jon Ashworth Lisa Nandy Ed Millibad David Lamy Emily Thornberry Rachel Reeves.
Maybe not Nick Thomas Symonds. However from the amount of critisism she get they seem to know Angeles Dodds to.
From the discussion on here yesterday I find it hard to believe that many posers on here do not know anyone from Labours current shadow cabinet as they are very astute. So I guess they would know Angela Raynor Jon Ashworth Lisa Nancy Ed Millibad David Lamy Emily Thornberry. Maybe not Nick Thomas Symonds.
Ed Milibad. Oh dear.
That one brought home the bacon.
Edit - where is Thornberry these days? You hardly ever hear of her now and yet under Corbyn she was one of Labour’s few capable performers.
In charge of Shadow Fleg Acquisition...... If there's an ounce of humour in SKS.
From the discussion on here yesterday I find it hard to believe that many posters on here do not know anyone from Labours current shadow cabinet as they are very astute. So I guess they would know Angela Raynor Jon Ashworth Lisa Nandy Ed Millibad David Lamy Emily Thornberry Rachel Reeves.
Maybe not Nick Thomas Symonds. However from the amount of critisism she get they seem to know Angeles Dodds to.
John Healey's been around a long time.
He has , Stephen Kinnock is in the SC , I guess most on here have heard of him. Its hard at this time for any of the SC to get hearing whilst the virus dominates everything.
From the discussion on here yesterday I find it hard to believe that many posers on here do not know anyone from Labours current shadow cabinet as they are very astute. So I guess they would know Angela Raynor Jon Ashworth Lisa Nancy Ed Millibad David Lamy Emily Thornberry. Maybe not Nick Thomas Symonds.
Ed Milibad. Oh dear.
That one brought home the bacon.
Edit - where is Thornberry these days? You hardly ever hear of her now and yet under Corbyn she was one of Labour’s few capable performers.
In charge of Shadow Fleg Acquisition...... If there's an ounce of humour in SKS.
While there has been a recent significant uptick in cases this chart may help explain why there has been a reluctance to lockdown on the Continent
Here in Spain the figures are on a downward trend but doctors are expecting a 4th wave as apparently 60% of new cases are the more easily transmissable UK variants. The vaccination process remains fairly slow. All [retty depressing to be honest. My tiny town has been on lockdown pretty well since Christmas.
Oasis had two awesome albums and eclipsed Blur. But Gorillaz eclipsed anything Gallagher Bros have done since.
Definitely Maybe was outstanding.
What's the Story (Morning Glory) was pretty good.
But Blur kept on evolving. Think Tank, for example, was a terrific album.
Agreed. I thought Be Here Now was lazy, and too long.
I mean, the nearly 8-minute long track "D'yknow what I mean?", really?
But, the Verve, Pulp, Oasis, Blur and Massive Attack all in their prime?
Superb music.
Do they make anything like that these days, or is it all Rag'n'Bone man and failed Craig David reboots?
Verve's Urban Hymns is probably the most overrated album of the last fifty years.
(But other than that, I am in complete agreement with you.)
I wrote, but deleted, that it was the best album of the era! I loved it for ages, but actually it’s a bit depressing
Really?
Bitter Sweet Symphony is dirge. The Drugs Don't Work is almost as bad.
I forget the rest of the album.
(I'm listening to Out of Time right now: what a STAGGERINGLY good track that is. Multi-layered, immaculately crafted, and both complex and tuneful. It remind me a little of Oblivions by The National.)
Out of Time superb. Country Feedback always reduces me to tears.
Although, and this is so obvious but Automatic For the People....Find the River is sheer ecstasy.
Just realised - you weren't talking about the REM album...whoops!
I suspect if most people listed their 5 favourite albums then looked at the list of the 5 albums they listened to most they would find huge discrepancies. I know I did
I went to the funeral of one of my best friends yesterday, and it set me thinking what I’d like played at mine. Actually the music I like is too downbeat in the main, I have come to the conclusion that funerals need beautiful, uplifting music to salve peoples anxiety rather than anything to confirm their misery
I have donated my body to medical students for them to do whatever they want to do with me. Not a 100% certain I will be taken. Might be rejected if too mangled. In which case if have requested I be disposed of in the cheapest way possible. Not sure the bin men will take me though.
From the discussion on here yesterday I find it hard to believe that many posers on here do not know anyone from Labours current shadow cabinet as they are very astute. So I guess they would know Angela Raynor Jon Ashworth Lisa Nancy Ed Millibad David Lamy Emily Thornberry. Maybe not Nick Thomas Symonds.
Ed Milibad. Oh dear.
That one brought home the bacon.
Edit - where is Thornberry these days? You hardly ever hear of her now and yet under Corbyn she was one of Labour’s few capable performers.
In charge of Shadow Fleg Acquisition...... If there's an ounce of humour in SKS.
Don’t you think she’d be cross with such a role?
Do you prefer Lisa Nandy as shadow FS ?
TBH, I haven’t heard much from her. Whether that’s because she hasn’t said much or simply because I’ve had no time to listen I don’t know.
But whichever it is, simply for that reason I would have to say ‘no.’
I seem to recall something about wokeing the army or something - it went down like the proverbial bowl of chilled nausea.
From the discussion on here yesterday I find it hard to believe that many posters on here do not know anyone from Labours current shadow cabinet as they are very astute. So I guess they would know Angela Raynor Jon Ashworth Lisa Nandy Ed Millibad David Lamy Emily Thornberry Rachel Reeves.
Maybe not Nick Thomas Symonds. However from the amount of critisism she get they seem to know Angeles Dodds to.
John Healey's been around a long time.
He has , Stephen Kinnock is in the SC , I guess most on here have heard of him. Its hard at this time for any of the SC to get hearing whilst the virus dominates everything.
Yes, until we reach the post virus world it is hard to see the SC getting any traction.
They do look an uninspiring bunch though, and hard to see them cutting through. Starmer is as dull with his choices as he is with everything else.
Give Angela Rayner a proper job. Her against Priti would get popcorn sales boosted, as would Jess Phillips against Williamson at Education.
Not Britpop but for early 90s bands a special mention has to go to Prodigy.
Charly says, always tell your mummy before you go off somewhere!
Best ‘90s albums for me: Massive Attack - Blue Lines Underworld - Second Toughest in the Infants Daft Punk - Homework Roni Size & Reprazent - New Forms Prodigy - Music for the Jilted Generation, The Fat of the Land.
Reminder to self - need to ship the vinyl collection out.
Blimey, we have the same taste in music.
You like The Chemical Brothers too?
My favourite ever track, I think, is Insomnia by Faithless.
While there has been a recent significant uptick in cases this chart may help explain why there has been a reluctance to lockdown on the Continent
Here in Spain the figures are on a downward trend but doctors are expecting a 4th wave as apparently 60% of new cases are the more easily transmissable UK variants. The vaccination process remains fairly slow. All [retty depressing to be honest. My tiny town has been on lockdown pretty well since Christmas.
The big challenge for all Governments (including potentially the UK one) is identifying when increasing case numbers does not represent a serious public health risk.
The other thing i think one can take from that graph (when cross referencing against "official" deaths figures), is that either there are very different levels of threshold illness for hospitalisation, hospital outcomes vary wildly between countries, or there are vast differences in how numbers of deaths are counted.
From the discussion on here yesterday I find it hard to believe that many posers on here do not know anyone from Labours current shadow cabinet as they are very astute. So I guess they would know Angela Raynor Jon Ashworth Lisa Nancy Ed Millibad David Lamy Emily Thornberry. Maybe not Nick Thomas Symonds.
Ed Milibad. Oh dear.
That one brought home the bacon.
Edit - where is Thornberry these days? You hardly ever hear of her now and yet under Corbyn she was one of Labour’s few capable performers.
In charge of Shadow Fleg Acquisition...... If there's an ounce of humour in SKS.
Don’t you think she’d be cross with such a role?
Do you prefer Lisa Nandy as shadow FS ?
TBH, I haven’t heard much from her. Whether that’s because she hasn’t said much or simply because I’ve had no time to listen I don’t know.
But whichever it is, simply for that reason I would have to say ‘no.’
I seem to recall something about wokeing the army or something - it went down like the proverbial bowl of chilled nausea.
I think that Woke-ing the army was underway already.
From the discussion on here yesterday I find it hard to believe that many posers on here do not know anyone from Labours current shadow cabinet as they are very astute. So I guess they would know Angela Raynor Jon Ashworth Lisa Nancy Ed Millibad David Lamy Emily Thornberry. Maybe not Nick Thomas Symonds.
Ed Milibad. Oh dear.
That one brought home the bacon.
Edit - where is Thornberry these days? You hardly ever hear of her now and yet under Corbyn she was one of Labour’s few capable performers.
In charge of Shadow Fleg Acquisition...... If there's an ounce of humour in SKS.
Don’t you think she’d be cross with such a role?
Do you prefer Lisa Nandy as shadow FS ?
TBH, I haven’t heard much from her. Whether that’s because she hasn’t said much or simply because I’ve had no time to listen I don’t know.
But whichever it is, simply for that reason I would have to say ‘no.’
I seem to recall something about wokeing the army or something - it went down like the proverbial bowl of chilled nausea.
I think that Woke-ing the army was underway already.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
Yes
He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again
I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
I can second this with my experiences.
Alastair is a good guy.
Agreed. He has been very kind and helpful to me personally. A lovely man. He likes to provoke. I hope he continues with his headers which are always worth reading and returns BTL soon.
I have spoken with Alastair loads off-site and he is kind hearted and thoughtful. He seems to transform into a different being on here though. But who doesn’t like to sometimes provoke people we think are idiots? Not big or clever but neither are we!
I too have communicated with Alastair off-site and I agree, he is always courteous and generous. It is a shame he gets SO enraged on here.
It does seem to be Brexit that did it. He was never like that before. Hopefully he will adjust in time, and I mean that sincerely
On a wider point, speaking as a Brexiteer, and as an interested observer of the Scottish referendum, I have learned my lesson about referendums in general.
They are hideous. Unless they are absolutely and utterly unavoidable, they should be avoided. They are innately divisive (if they are about big constitutional decisions) and yes, they really should be once in a generation.
Scotland is not a better place for indyref1, and even tho I approved of the result of the Brexitref, I lament the way the UK has been riven and roiled. So that people like Alastair become so apoplectic.
Enough big votes for now. Please. Let us go back to parliamentary elections for a couple of decades. Ta
They call you the last Brexiteer...but not from longevity, but from tardiness.
I agree on referedums. With the additional concern that they rarely become votes on the actual question.
“The reason the EU became an issue that troubled a political generation was because it was decided at referendum in the 1970s. Discuss”
The reason that the EU became such an issue, was that it was discussed and voted on in the 1970s, then ignored as a subject for debate by all sides in politics, as the trading organisation we had joined morphed into something else.
Politicians never tried to bring the public on board with changes to the EEC/EU, it was always something ‘done to’ the British public rather than something progressed by consent, and was used as a cover by British governments over the years to introduce things they knew would be unacceptable to the public.
By the time the pressure for another vote became impossible to placate, the result was probably a foregone conclusion. For some, the final straw was Lisbon, for others it was Dave’s ‘re-negotiation’, for yet others it was a sign of all that was wrong with governments who didn’t stand up for them or care for their concerns, and the sense that the rules were made by people we didn’t elect and couldn’t fire through the ballot box.
From the discussion on here yesterday I find it hard to believe that many posers on here do not know anyone from Labours current shadow cabinet as they are very astute. So I guess they would know Angela Raynor Jon Ashworth Lisa Nancy Ed Millibad David Lamy Emily Thornberry. Maybe not Nick Thomas Symonds.
Ed Milibad. Oh dear.
That one brought home the bacon.
Edit - where is Thornberry these days? You hardly ever hear of her now and yet under Corbyn she was one of Labour’s few capable performers.
In charge of Shadow Fleg Acquisition...... If there's an ounce of humour in SKS.
Don’t you think she’d be cross with such a role?
Do you prefer Lisa Nandy as shadow FS ?
TBH, I haven’t heard much from her. Whether that’s because she hasn’t said much or simply because I’ve had no time to listen I don’t know.
But whichever it is, simply for that reason I would have to say ‘no.’
I seem to recall something about wokeing the army or something - it went down like the proverbial bowl of chilled nausea.
I think that Woke-ing the army was underway already.
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
Yes
He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again
I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
I can second this with my experiences.
Alastair is a good guy.
Agreed. He has been very kind and helpful to me personally. A lovely man. He likes to provoke. I hope he continues with his headers which are always worth reading and returns BTL soon.
I have spoken with Alastair loads off-site and he is kind hearted and thoughtful. He seems to transform into a different being on here though. But who doesn’t like to sometimes provoke people we think are idiots? Not big or clever but neither are we!
I too have communicated with Alastair off-site and I agree, he is always courteous and generous. It is a shame he gets SO enraged on here.
It does seem to be Brexit that did it. He was never like that before. Hopefully he will adjust in time, and I mean that sincerely
On a wider point, speaking as a Brexiteer, and as an interested observer of the Scottish referendum, I have learned my lesson about referendums in general.
They are hideous. Unless they are absolutely and utterly unavoidable, they should be avoided. They are innately divisive (if they are about big constitutional decisions) and yes, they really should be once in a generation.
Scotland is not a better place for indyref1, and even tho I approved of the result of the Brexitref, I lament the way the UK has been riven and roiled. So that people like Alastair become so apoplectic.
Enough big votes for now. Please. Let us go back to parliamentary elections for a couple of decades. Ta
They call you the last Brexiteer...but not from longevity, but from tardiness.
I agree on referedums. With the additional concern that they rarely become votes on the actual question.
“The reason the EU became an issue that troubled a political generation was because it was decided at referendum in the 1970s. Discuss”
The reason that the EU became such an issue, was that it was discussed and voted on in the 1970s, then ignored as a subject for debate by all sides in politics, as the trading organisation we had joined morphed into something else.
Politicians never tried to bring the public on board with changes to the EEC/EU, it was always something ‘done to’ the British public rather than something progressed by consent, and was used as a cover by British governments over the years to introduce things they knew would be unacceptable to the public.
By the time the pressure for another vote became impossible to placate, the result was probably a foregone conclusion. For some, the final straw was Lisbon, for others it was Dave’s ‘re-negotiation’, for yet others it was a sign of all that was wrong with governments who didn’t stand up for them or care for their concerns, and the sense that the rules were made by people we didn’t elect and couldn’t fire through the ballot box.
I think saying the outcome was a foregone conclusion is to seriously let the Labour Party post 2015 off the hook (or deprive them of credit depending on your viewpoint!). It was still close enough that a less than half hearted effort by the Labour leadership could have made a difference.
The scientists always have that next wave just around the corner.
Or alternatively, the scientists know they will get roasted if their predictions are optimistic but nobody will care much if things are getting better more quickly because they’ll be happy?
From the discussion on here yesterday I find it hard to believe that many posers on here do not know anyone from Labours current shadow cabinet as they are very astute. So I guess they would know Angela Raynor Jon Ashworth Lisa Nancy Ed Millibad David Lamy Emily Thornberry. Maybe not Nick Thomas Symonds.
Ed Milibad. Oh dear.
That one brought home the bacon.
Edit - where is Thornberry these days? You hardly ever hear of her now and yet under Corbyn she was one of Labour’s few capable performers.
In charge of Shadow Fleg Acquisition...... If there's an ounce of humour in SKS.
Don’t you think she’d be cross with such a role?
Do you prefer Lisa Nandy as shadow FS ?
TBH, I haven’t heard much from her. Whether that’s because she hasn’t said much or simply because I’ve had no time to listen I don’t know.
But whichever it is, simply for that reason I would have to say ‘no.’
I seem to recall something about wokeing the army or something - it went down like the proverbial bowl of chilled nausea.
I think that Woke-ing the army was underway already.
If Dura Ace* is representative then I would have thought what was needed was a campaign to Blairify the forces.
*I haven’t forgotten he was in the Air Force not the Army, nor do I intend this comment to be taken entirely seriously...
I was an RAF reject - I'm pretty sure I've spun the dit on here before. Wandered down the road the RN recruitment office and joined the Fleet Air Arm instead.
From the discussion on here yesterday I find it hard to believe that many posers on here do not know anyone from Labours current shadow cabinet as they are very astute. So I guess they would know Angela Raynor Jon Ashworth Lisa Nancy Ed Millibad David Lamy Emily Thornberry. Maybe not Nick Thomas Symonds.
Ed Milibad. Oh dear.
That one brought home the bacon.
Edit - where is Thornberry these days? You hardly ever hear of her now and yet under Corbyn she was one of Labour’s few capable performers.
In charge of Shadow Fleg Acquisition...... If there's an ounce of humour in SKS.
Don’t you think she’d be cross with such a role?
Do you prefer Lisa Nandy as shadow FS ?
TBH, I haven’t heard much from her. Whether that’s because she hasn’t said much or simply because I’ve had no time to listen I don’t know.
But whichever it is, simply for that reason I would have to say ‘no.’
I seem to recall something about wokeing the army or something - it went down like the proverbial bowl of chilled nausea.
I think that Woke-ing the army was underway already.
If Dura Ace* is representative then I would have thought what was needed was a campaign to Blairify the forces.
*I haven’t forgotten he was in the Air Force not the Army, nor do I intend this comment to be taken entirely seriously...
I was an RAF reject - I'm pretty sure I've spun the dit on here before. Wandered down the road the RN recruitment office and joined the Fleet Air Arm instead.
You may have done but I must have missed it.
Do I get keel hauled, or these days is it high tech and I get fired from a missile launcher?
Hello all! I had my first Pfizer dose yesterday. I'm only early 40s but have had some health problems so pushed up the list. The local set up was really efficient; I arrived ten minutes early and had my jab four minutes later, so six minutes before I was meant to arrive. I tried to loiter outside the centre (away from anyone) to not be so early, but got urged in by one of the volunteers. I found the whole experience unexpectedly uplifting. Everybody involved was so positive, their masks didn't seem to be hiding their smiles. I imagine only the bitterest opponents of the government/Boris/Brexit will deny the enormous success our vaccine strategy has been. I've been lurking here a while. I wanted to join the other day so I could get on the Meeks "useful list", but it seems I may have been too slow - unless the list is still alive despite his awkward departure? I'd like to respond to his insane accuation that supporters of Brexit and the current givernment have tried to kill his partner, by pointing out that his preferred policies would have been trying to kill me and many close to me by delaying our vaccinations by many months in the useless EU scheme. Was death-cult the mot-juste once?
Welcome aboard!
PS What's this about Meeks' awkward departure - have I missed something?
Yes
He and Phil fell out and he said he would not post again
I do not agree with Alastair but I have to say he privately messaged me about my eldest's mental health and the electroconvulsive treatment that he was having and he was just so kind and understanding that I am sorry if he does carry out his threat
I can second this with my experiences.
Alastair is a good guy.
Agreed. He has been very kind and helpful to me personally. A lovely man. He likes to provoke. I hope he continues with his headers which are always worth reading and returns BTL soon.
I have spoken with Alastair loads off-site and he is kind hearted and thoughtful. He seems to transform into a different being on here though. But who doesn’t like to sometimes provoke people we think are idiots? Not big or clever but neither are we!
I too have communicated with Alastair off-site and I agree, he is always courteous and generous. It is a shame he gets SO enraged on here.
It does seem to be Brexit that did it. He was never like that before. Hopefully he will adjust in time, and I mean that sincerely
On a wider point, speaking as a Brexiteer, and as an interested observer of the Scottish referendum, I have learned my lesson about referendums in general.
They are hideous. Unless they are absolutely and utterly unavoidable, they should be avoided. They are innately divisive (if they are about big constitutional decisions) and yes, they really should be once in a generation.
Scotland is not a better place for indyref1, and even tho I approved of the result of the Brexitref, I lament the way the UK has been riven and roiled. So that people like Alastair become so apoplectic.
Enough big votes for now. Please. Let us go back to parliamentary elections for a couple of decades. Ta
They call you the last Brexiteer...but not from longevity, but from tardiness.
I agree on referedums. With the additional concern that they rarely become votes on the actual question.
“The reason the EU became an issue that troubled a political generation was because it was decided at referendum in the 1970s. Discuss”
The reason that the EU became such an issue, was that it was discussed and voted on in the 1970s, then ignored as a subject for debate by all sides in politics, as the trading organisation we had joined morphed into something else.
Politicians never tried to bring the public on board with changes to the EEC/EU, it was always something ‘done to’ the British public rather than something progressed by consent, and was used as a cover by British governments over the years to introduce things they knew would be unacceptable to the public.
By the time the pressure for another vote became impossible to placate, the result was probably a foregone conclusion. For some, the final straw was Lisbon, for others it was Dave’s ‘re-negotiation’, for yet others it was a sign of all that was wrong with governments who didn’t stand up for them or care for their concerns, and the sense that the rules were made by people we didn’t elect and couldn’t fire through the ballot box.
I think saying the outcome was a foregone conclusion is to seriously let the Labour Party post 2015 off the hook (or deprive them of credit depending on your viewpoint!). It was still close enough that a less than half hearted effort by the Labour leadership could have made a difference.
But of course they themselves were split on the issue, with many MPs at odds with the views of their constituents (which was brutally exposed in 2019). IMO the biggest failure of the Remain campaigns was their failure to make a positive case for membership - until after we had voted to leave.
From the discussion on here yesterday I find it hard to believe that many posers on here do not know anyone from Labours current shadow cabinet as they are very astute. So I guess they would know Angela Raynor Jon Ashworth Lisa Nancy Ed Millibad David Lamy Emily Thornberry. Maybe not Nick Thomas Symonds.
Ed Milibad. Oh dear.
That one brought home the bacon.
Edit - where is Thornberry these days? You hardly ever hear of her now and yet under Corbyn she was one of Labour’s few capable performers.
In charge of Shadow Fleg Acquisition...... If there's an ounce of humour in SKS.
Don’t you think she’d be cross with such a role?
Do you prefer Lisa Nandy as shadow FS ?
TBH, I haven’t heard much from her. Whether that’s because she hasn’t said much or simply because I’ve had no time to listen I don’t know.
But whichever it is, simply for that reason I would have to say ‘no.’
I seem to recall something about wokeing the army or something - it went down like the proverbial bowl of chilled nausea.
I think that Woke-ing the army was underway already.
"The campaign launched with a series of outdoor posters targeting ‘me me me millennials’, ‘class clowns’, ‘snowflakes’ and ‘phone zombies’. That aspect of the campaign accounted for just 10% of media spend in January but was meant to “provoke a discussion” and get people to take notice of the campaign."
I wasn't aware of it at all! Lucky i wasn't the target audience
Obviously, if people would like a PB meet when OGH is in the Lakes in late summer, Daughter is very willing to host.
A PB meet after all this time would be lovely!
I think this is a brilliant idea. I've never made it to a PB meet before (tho I believe I put some money behind the bar, for one, for some reason I cannot recall). I'd love an excuse to go to the Lakes after all this HORROR is over.
This is a good cause, and yay we can support a PBer business. Count me in.
There is a very good local hotel overlooking the sea I can recommend.
I hope it comes off. Would be a lot of fun.
Are there any caravan sites nearby?
Yes - loads. This is mountain-biking / walking territory.
The scientists always have that next wave just around the corner.
Or alternatively, the scientists know they will get roasted if their predictions are optimistic but nobody will care much if things are getting better more quickly because they’ll be happy?
I don't know - i think they got a lot of flack when they gave the impression of magnifying the scale of the problem back in October. But yes, i guess on balance they prefer to be wrong on the upside.
I have just been told that the expert who advised OFQUAL on this year’s grading arrangements, Sir Jon Coles, has resigned. He apparently told Gavin Williamson that the whole thing was a ‘stupid clusterfuck.’
Not saying he’s wrong. But it’s not a great enhancement to the credibility of the system, even if he is a career DfE civil servant rather than somebody capable.
Ofqual and the dfe have had a year to work out what to do with this year's exams and at least 6 months since last year's disaster.
So instead we have a complete repeat of last year's disaster announced at the last minute because they assumed back in September nothing would go wrong this year and students would be in school
Do I get keel hauled, or these days is it high tech and I get fired from a missile launcher?
30 days in RNDQ Plymouth where you have to polish your toilet with brick dust and cold water after every time you have a piss or shit.
Here's the full story...
I was actually an RAF reject. I was in my university RAF UAS for three years then went to Aircrew Selection at Biggin Hill (in my mother's Renault 4 - glamour!) and scored (I think) 111. They had some mad 120 point scale and you needed 113 for pilot so they tried to make me into an Intelligence Officer. I walked into the Navy recruitment office the next day and said I wanted to be a pilot. They sent me back to Biggin and having done the tests two weeks before I now scored 118. You needed 117 to be a FAA pilot as there was no point in recruiting marginal candidates who wouldn't be able to handle the Harrier.
I've probably remembered all those numbers incorrectly but the relative magnitudes are basically correct.
While there has been a recent significant uptick in cases this chart may help explain why there has been a reluctance to lockdown on the Continent
Here in Spain the figures are on a downward trend but doctors are expecting a 4th wave as apparently 60% of new cases are the more easily transmissable UK variants. The vaccination process remains fairly slow. All [retty depressing to be honest. My tiny town has been on lockdown pretty well since Christmas.
The big challenge for all Governments (including potentially the UK one) is identifying when increasing case numbers does not represent a serious public health risk.
The other thing i think one can take from that graph (when cross referencing against "official" deaths figures), is that either there are very different levels of threshold illness for hospitalisation, hospital outcomes vary wildly between countries, or there are vast differences in how numbers of deaths are counted.
This is why all of the debate [ including the shenanigans on here yesterday] is so silly. There is no standardised method which all countries follow of quantifying the statistics. I'd guess it will be years before any meaningful comparisons can be made. All the rest is the usual political posturing. And this is before you look at all of the other variables: population density, distribution by age and geography, social customs, public health system spend and quality, norms of poltical freedom, .... the list is almost endless.
From the discussion on here yesterday I find it hard to believe that many posers on here do not know anyone from Labours current shadow cabinet as they are very astute. So I guess they would know Angela Raynor Jon Ashworth Lisa Nancy Ed Millibad David Lamy Emily Thornberry. Maybe not Nick Thomas Symonds.
Ed Milibad. Oh dear.
That one brought home the bacon.
Edit - where is Thornberry these days? You hardly ever hear of her now and yet under Corbyn she was one of Labour’s few capable performers.
In charge of Shadow Fleg Acquisition...... If there's an ounce of humour in SKS.
Don’t you think she’d be cross with such a role?
Do you prefer Lisa Nandy as shadow FS ?
TBH, I haven’t heard much from her. Whether that’s because she hasn’t said much or simply because I’ve had no time to listen I don’t know.
But whichever it is, simply for that reason I would have to say ‘no.’
I seem to recall something about wokeing the army or something - it went down like the proverbial bowl of chilled nausea.
I think that Woke-ing the army was underway already.
Amazing. It's tribute to the Britain's unwritten constitution that all she had to do to achieve this position of vast influence was suck Johnson's pant antler like a Tokyo salaryman going at his last Marlboro.
Some think it clearly is, others argue it's a coincidence. But arguably the latter (which is obviously intended as a defence) is possibly worse.
The symbols that the Nazis adopted didn't come about by chance. They were at the heart of their movement and the image they were trying to project. Nazi imitators are not as scary as the real thing. Apart from anything else because they are relatively easy to oppose for obvious reasons. Few mainstream politicians are going to willingly identify as being a Nazi.
But Republicans increasingly adopting Nazi like imagery by coincidence speaks to them actually morphing into the real thing. Philosophically in mind and deed.
Looks more like the SNP symbol to me
Looks like the Daily Kos hosts slightly too many obsessives to me.
Do their house look like Hitler as well? As this in Swansea, Wales must be run by Fascists.
I have just been told that the expert who advised OFQUAL on this year’s grading arrangements, Sir Jon Coles, has resigned. He apparently told Gavin Williamson that the whole thing was a ‘stupid clusterfuck.’
Not saying he’s wrong. But it’s not a great enhancement to the credibility of the system, even if he is a career DfE civil servant rather than somebody capable.
Ofqual and the dfe have had a year to work out what to do with this year's exams and at least 6 months since last year's disaster.
So instead we have a complete repeat of last year's disaster announced at the last minute because they assumed back in September nothing would go wrong this year and students would be in school
How much of that was Ofqual/DfE, and how much ministerial instruction? (not saying that they would have come up with a better plan if they'd tried).
One of the depressing things over the last few years (particularly notable with Brexit related issues) is how often in the UK Government it seems that the precautionary principle of planning for adverse/unwanted scenarios appears to have been actively disallowed/discouraged, on the grounds that planning for something will lead inevitably to it happening.
Some think it clearly is, others argue it's a coincidence. But arguably the latter (which is obviously intended as a defence) is possibly worse.
The symbols that the Nazis adopted didn't come about by chance. They were at the heart of their movement and the image they were trying to project. Nazi imitators are not as scary as the real thing. Apart from anything else because they are relatively easy to oppose for obvious reasons. Few mainstream politicians are going to willingly identify as being a Nazi.
But Republicans increasingly adopting Nazi like imagery by coincidence speaks to them actually morphing into the real thing. Philosophically in mind and deed.
Looks more like the SNP symbol to me
Looks like the Daily Kos hosts slightly too many obsessives to me.
Do their house look like Hitler as well? As this in Swansea, Wales must be run by Fascists.
I see the Guardian says the Begum ruling is “controversial”
This is one of those special Guardian word-definitions, where “controversial” means “it dismays three people in Islington”
The view of the court about the respect to be given to the views and judgment of Ministers is something of a throw back and may cause ripples. It is not easy to reconcile that view with the unanimous view of the Court in the Prorogation case, to take an example.
The court over-reached with the prorogation case; this time they are exactly right. These difficult executive decisions must be made by people who are democratically accountable
These two cases are easily reconciled.
In both cases the court found it had the power to intervene. It took the view that it should intervene in the prorogation case because the government was taking the piss (which it was): the government's refusal to give any account under oath for its actions may well have proven fatal to its case. You seem to have forgotten that at the time of the purported prorogation Britain had a Prime Minister who had not been elected at a general election, who did not command a majority in Parliament and indeed had not won a vote in Parliament pursuing a policy that had not been put before the British public and using prorogation as a tool to impose that irreversibly.
In the present case it took the view that the government had acted within the wide latitude granted to governments when taking decisions. Which, given that the Home Secretary was exercising statutory powers given to them in an extreme case, is not all that surprising.
The main consequence of the prorogation case was political. The public decided, unlike in the USA, that they were AOK with self-coups. As a result Britain now has a government with a light attachment to democracy and an extreme aversion to any form of accountability enthusiastically supported by a self-radicalised posse who are quite willing to overlook anything it does, up to and including the avoidable deaths of tens of thousands.
Nice example of ensuring people wont pay attention to your solidly put points because you wanted to indulge in unrelated theatrical condemnation.
Now you can pretend to be affronted when people ignore your good first paras, even though that was presumably your intention and you want Brexiteers to rage at you so you can respond in turn.
Well, each of us has fun in their own way i suppose.
The last bit is the important bit. Tens of thousands of people have died avoidable deaths, but the government's supporters simply don't think that's as important as supporting the government.
I am staggered at the self-degradation of these partisans.
Pot meet kettle. I assume the Italians, French, Germans, Americans (need I go on?) who died were all unavoidable deaths? Or maybe. just maybe there is a nasty virus in worldwide circulation causing epic problems to all governments. Ours has not performed well, I think most would accept that, but they are not the only ones to struggle in this pandemic. At least we have one of the most open and trustworthy reporting systems. How many Chinese died in Wuhan province? How many Spaniards have died (unclear reporting, and a suggestion that that true figure is far higher than the official one? I get that you hate Brexit and the current government, but you are one of the most blinkered on this site. You are an intelligent man, but your own lack of self awareness is stark.
Britain has done exceptionally badly, in the bottommost tier of countries in its response to Covid-19. Only the most crazed zealots would suggest otherwise.
Sadly, many of those crazed zealots infest this site. Here's the sort of problem that they're determined to avoid discussing:
I raised this this morning but the hypothesis of that comment that this is something that could have been avoided is at best unproven. As far as we can tell what happened was that Kent variant took a much greater hold in this country than elsewhere, it was far more infectious and possibly marginally more dangerous.
Your default assumption that this was a consequence of government incompetence or ineptitude may prove to be correct but it is an assumption. The UK has the best genomic analysis in the world. By that time (December) it had amongst the best test and trace and was one of the very highest levels of testing. And yet we were still caught with our trousers down. Incompetence? Maybe but it is possible that we did our very best and were simply unlucky.
My memory is good enough to remember early December, when cases in Britain were obviously rising and the government was resisting tightening up. I remember the Prime Minister mocking the Leader of the Opposition for suggesting the same thing.
It was obvious what was happening at the time. And untold thousands paid with their lives because the Prime Minister couldn't bear to do the unpopular but necessary thing.
I'm sure you're diligently noting down in your ledger the untold thousands of EU citizens who will perish completely unnecessarily due to the EU, and various Member State governments, putting political ideology and dogma ahead of the lives of their citizens.
Your position the other night was that this was a pandemic and as such a natural phenomenon for which no government could be blamed for anything at all. Have you yet moved on from that ridiculous position?
Not at all. I'm just naively assuming you must be doing as I mentioned as a logical extension of your criticisms of the UK government.
If you're not then it doesn't bother me, but it would be interesting to know. Unless of course there's axes to be ground.
I don't blame any government for anything as it happens. No government is deliberately seeking to kill their citizens. All are doing what they consider to be the best at the time they make any decision, in rapidly changing situations, with new and constantly evolving scientific evidence or theories.
But if there's an axe to be ground then so be it. Fill your boots. It won't assuage your evident hate of the UK government though. Use your vote instead. If enough people agree with you then democracy will have its say.
I have a feeling though that it won't be your current angst that'll be the undoing of Johnson.
So you do agree that the outrageous number of avoidable deaths that the British government is responsible for is something that they should be held accountable for?
No I don't as I don't consider them to be "outrageous" or ultimately what I would consider to be "avoidable".
Comparatively high to others, at this precise moment in time, yes. Expected, yes.
We have a habit of making our governments "accountable" every 4 or 5 years. If your belief is shared by the majority of people come judgement day then you'll be the first to celebrate I'm sure.
Expected? The fourth worst in the world? This country is well and truly up shit creek if your disgusting complacency about such disastrous performance is widely shared.
Except fourth in the world is not true. There is no semblance of truth to it whatsoever so only someone trying to lie to score partisan points would use that claim.
4th is a frequently quoted (by reputable sources) current estimate of where we stand. It can be disputed - as all precise country comparisons can be - but it's not a bad faith claim. You, OTOH, with nonsense such as "there is no semblance of truth to it whatsoever", are lying.
Show me how you can get 4th from that? Or do you think we should be using the guesstimate trackers that we know are missing half or more of some countries deaths?
Which matters more for you: how many people have actually died (excess deaths) or using figures you know are wrong because they put Britain in a bad light (recorded Covid19 deaths)?
I have two very strong suspicions.
a) if the 'official' Covid deaths on Worldometer showed the UK with a much lower death rate than others, you would be trumpeting the government's success ad infinitum, regardless of what excess deaths showed (currently).
b) you will emphatically deny a).
If I did and I was using Worldometer figures that were BS then you would be right to correct the record and point out that they're bullshit.
Everyone agreed early on, before figures showed anything, that the one gold standard true metric during a pandemic is excess deaths. Because some countries (like the UK) do a good job of testing for and accurately recording cause of death, others do not.
What matters more to you:
a) how many have actually died in real life?
b) how many Worldometers claims have died?
a). But neither you, nor I, know how we compare relative to other countries on that measure yet, and we won't for some time. So you going on about it is no different from those going on about b).
We don't know everything but there's a substantial amount of data there.
Italy until 30/11/20 had 157 excess deaths per 100k population. Britain until 22/01/21 had 160 excess deaths per 100k population.
Given the figures that have come out from Italy in December and January it seems reasonable to expect more than 3 deaths per 100k in the eight weeks they have missing from the data.
(i) "I disagree with the table showing we are 4th worst in the world on covid outcome. There are other ways of comparing that I think give a fairer result."
(ii) "4th in the world is not true. There is no semblance of truth to it whatsoever."
Language is all there is on an internet forum and you are abusing it here. It's fine - you write what you want - but so will I.
And here I use it to charge and convict you of arguing in bad faith, aka LYING.
No you are acting in bad faith.
There is categorically no semblance of truth to the Worldometers figures. Just because someone compiles dodgy data does not give it a semblance of truth.
When Italy are recording two excess deaths for every one Covid death there is no good faith reason at all to be using the Worldometers data when accurate alternatives are out there.
It is like a few days ago when Leon claimed that France had a 25% death toll from Covid19 because that is what Worldometers gives as the closed case death rate.
Anybody still using Worldometers as their primary source and trying to make political claims based on that is either malicious or ignorant.
Worldometers table is not "unfair" or "disagreeable" it is wrong and using wrong data leads to wrong outcomes. Garbage in, garbage out.
Much deflection rather than admit hyperbolic language. Ah well.
It isn't hyperbolic.
You either believe in using data with integrity, or you do not. If you know data is completely fallacious - like Worldometers claiming 25% of French covid patients die, or that the UK has the 4th highest death toll per capita - then you need to sort that out and get accurate data.
It was bad faith deceitful hyberbole from you. If you do it again I'll flag it again. Assuming I see it, that is. Which I will.
Comments
But whichever it is, simply for that reason I would have to say ‘no.’
Its hard at this time for any of the SC to get hearing whilst the virus dominates everything.
I have donated my body to medical students for them to do whatever they want to do with me. Not a 100% certain I will be taken. Might be rejected if too mangled. In which case if have requested I be disposed of in the cheapest way possible. Not sure the bin men will take me though.
They do look an uninspiring bunch though, and hard to see them cutting through. Starmer is as dull with his choices as he is with everything else.
Give Angela Rayner a proper job. Her against Priti would get popcorn sales boosted, as would Jess Phillips against Williamson at Education.
You like The Chemical Brothers too?
My favourite ever track, I think, is Insomnia by Faithless.
The other thing i think one can take from that graph (when cross referencing against "official" deaths figures), is that either there are very different levels of threshold illness for hospitalisation, hospital outcomes vary wildly between countries, or there are vast differences in how numbers of deaths are counted.
https://www.marketingweek.com/british-army-snowflake-ads-shift-perceptions/
*I haven’t forgotten he was in the Air Force not the Army, nor do I intend this comment to be taken entirely seriously...
Politicians never tried to bring the public on board with changes to the EEC/EU, it was always something ‘done to’ the British public rather than something progressed by consent, and was used as a cover by British governments over the years to introduce things they knew would be unacceptable to the public.
By the time the pressure for another vote became impossible to placate, the result was probably a foregone conclusion. For some, the final straw was Lisbon, for others it was Dave’s ‘re-negotiation’, for yet others it was a sign of all that was wrong with governments who didn’t stand up for them or care for their concerns, and the sense that the rules were made by people we didn’t elect and couldn’t fire through the ballot box.
Boris is reminding me now of Tony Blair. If he wishes to, he can be PM for the same length of time.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2021/02/boris-johnson-s-have-cake-eat-cake-strategy-yielding-results-leaving-labour-pick
Do I get keel hauled, or these days is it high tech and I get fired from a missile launcher?
I wasn't aware of it at all! Lucky i wasn't the target audience
https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1365584031178457089
So instead we have a complete repeat of last year's disaster announced at the last minute because they assumed back in September nothing would go wrong this year and students would be in school
Here's the full story...
I've probably remembered all those numbers incorrectly but the relative magnitudes are basically correct.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9180175/Labours-Lisa-Nandy-fresh-woke-row-praising-report-claiming-UK-no-longer-great-power.html
Do their house look like Hitler as well? As this in Swansea, Wales must be run by Fascists.
What about their cats?
made a mess of exam reform
One of the depressing things over the last few years (particularly notable with Brexit related issues) is how often in the UK Government it seems that the precautionary principle of planning for adverse/unwanted scenarios appears to have been actively disallowed/discouraged, on the grounds that planning for something will lead inevitably to it happening.