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With just three months to go before the Scottish elections a ratings boost for Sturgeon and the SNP

13

Comments

  • glwglw Posts: 7,775

    New cases reported:

    06/01 62,322
    13/01 47,525
    20/01 38,905
    27/01 25,308
    03/02 19,202

    And that is with significantly higher testing and before vaccination has had more than a minor effect.

    Yep, only about 2 million or so people were vaccinated 3 weeks ago and so could now have developed a significant degree of immunity. So much of the downturn in infections must be down to the lockdown. In a months time there should be about 6 times as many people with immunity due to vaccines.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,859
    Will from the Inbetweeners no?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,253
    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    You have to wonder if Ed Davey has missed his chance to make any sort of impact (not saying it’s his fault during a pandemic - I’m sure that in normal times he’d be making hay on Brexit)?
    The Lib Dems get virtually zero media coverage. With COVID, it is all Boris, Hancock, Sunak, then Starmer, then Piers Moron....
    The other day a friend of mine, who is EXTREMELY well informed on politics, the kind of guy who can give you the exact turnout in the 1997 GE, or name the Shadow Defence Secretary, or quote the latest polling on Welsh independence, asked me: "who is the Lib Dem leader?"
    I think it's a deliberate ploy to remain invisible until close to the election, then emerge as the fresh 'new' face of a new politics just in time for the poll. He knows that we all get tired of politicians and will be fully fed up with Johnson and Starmer by then.

    Plus, from recent Lib Dem experience with Swinson that having a leader too long can make them seem really annoying (more than a week or two in her case)

    Genius :wink:
    Ah, that's it


    Actually, I'm nearly as big a politics geek as him (I'm on here every day for a start), and when he asked me It took me a full 30 seconds to say Ed Davey, and even then it was a bit of a guess. Indeed, it still is

    *checks Google*
    Also means there will be very few people who actually dislike Davey.
    Not actually true, lib dems start at a very high level of dislike and have to work their way up
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    Not supposed to playing football at all, are they? Not surprised he’s annoyed.
    If we jump the gun would it not cause setbacks?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,232
    edited February 3

    Leon said:

    Curtice is great on polling and good on politics. He's not a constitutional lawyer.

    Neither am I, of course, but it seems vanishingly unlikely that the SCOTUK would not come down on the side of Westminster. Allowing indyrefs is expressly reserved to Westminster. And it has to be, as otherwise any constituent nation of the UK could have a referendum any time it likes, twice a month maybe, if its Assembly has that power.

    The SNP could call seven a day until they get YES

    Logically the power is therefore reserved for Westminster.
    One would hope that the SCOTUK would be looking at the situation through the lens of legal and moral principle rather than that of feartie, hypocritical Unionism. I obviously have a higher opinion of British institutions than you.
    No sane British Government wants this settled in court, and anyway the moral case is clear with an SNP win. On the other hand I can’t see the Scottish Government not giving way a bit on dates in amongst Covid. So I’m thinking there will be a referendum in mid-late 2022.
    You're probably in the right target area, just 'sane British government' gives me pause for thought.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,927
    Roger said:

    Who's Rachael Swindon? Whoever it is has a point though it would be nice to know where she's coming from
    She was a Jezza fanatic
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,873
    If we assume that it takes three weeks for vaccination to have an effect on the reported new infections then only vaccinations up to 13/01 will be having an effect.

    That is less than three million.

    Everyday from now on that number grows and grows quickly.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    New cases reported:

    06/01 62,322
    13/01 47,525
    20/01 38,905
    27/01 25,308
    03/02 19,202

    And that is with significantly higher testing and before vaccination has had more than a minor effect.

    Yep, lockdowns work. It is ending them that is problematic.
    Contrarian will not be happy about that last part.
    I am not advocating endless lockdown, but clearly ending them is tricky. There is the question of when, and how much.

    I think most transmission arises from household mixing, and inevitably as life resumes normality with schools, shops and the night time economy, rates will spike up.
  • FossFoss Posts: 437

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    Who's Rachael Swindon? Whoever it is has a point though it would be nice to know where she's coming from
    A huge Corbynista.
    Interesting that she thinks now is the time to stick her head above the parapet....
    The trend lines on the graph on Wikipedia show Labour trending back down and the Conservatives trending up. Perhaps she views it as vindication of her beliefs about Starmer’s ability to win and a good time to really push for someone more Corbynite to take over?

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    MaxPB said:

    Will from the Inbetweeners no?
    Yes, he does look as if he had a briefcase at school.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    New cases reported:

    06/01 62,322
    13/01 47,525
    20/01 38,905
    27/01 25,308
    03/02 19,202

    And that is with significantly higher testing and before vaccination has had more than a minor effect.

    Yep, lockdowns work. It is ending them that is problematic.
    Contrarian will not be happy about that last part.
    I am not advocating endless lockdown, but clearly ending them is tricky. There is the question of when, and how much.

    I think most transmission arises from household mixing, and inevitably as life resumes normality with schools, shops and the night time economy, rates will spike up.
    I think most people are now in the “let’s see this out however long it takes, get vaccinated, and then never do it again” camp. Gvt is pushing against an open door if it sticks with that policy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055

    Leon said:

    Curtice is great on polling and good on politics. He's not a constitutional lawyer.

    Neither am I, of course, but it seems vanishingly unlikely that the SCOTUK would not come down on the side of Westminster. Allowing indyrefs is expressly reserved to Westminster. And it has to be, as otherwise any constituent nation of the UK could have a referendum any time it likes, twice a month maybe, if its Assembly has that power.

    The SNP could call seven a day until they get YES

    Logically the power is therefore reserved for Westminster.
    One would hope that the SCOTUK would be looking at the situation through the lens of legal and moral principle rather than that of feartie, hypocritical Unionism. I obviously have a higher opinion of British institutions than you.

    Nothing to do with emotions, pure legal logic. A state that has no control over its constituent nations, by allowing them to secede essentially at will, is not a state at all, and is a mad construct destined for perpetual constitutional and economic chaos.

    There was a reason the power to hold indyrefs was reserved to Westminster, this is it.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,232
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Curtice is great on polling and good on politics. He's not a constitutional lawyer.

    Neither am I, of course, but it seems vanishingly unlikely that the SCOTUK would not come down on the side of Westminster. Allowing indyrefs is expressly reserved to Westminster. And it has to be, as otherwise any constituent nation of the UK could have a referendum any time it likes, twice a month maybe, if its Assembly has that power.

    The SNP could call seven a day until they get YES

    Logically the power is therefore reserved for Westminster.
    One would hope that the SCOTUK would be looking at the situation through the lens of legal and moral principle rather than that of feartie, hypocritical Unionism. I obviously have a higher opinion of British institutions than you.

    Nothing to do with emotions, pure legal logic. A state that has no control over its constituent nations, by allowing them to secede essentially at will, is not a state at all, and is a mad construct destined for perpetual constitutional and economic chaos.

    There was a reason the power to hold indyrefs was reserved to Westminster, this is it.

    'He's not a constitutional lawyer.

    Neither am I, of course'
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,118
    MaxPB said:

    Will from the Inbetweeners no?
    Briefcase wanker....
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Curtice is great on polling and good on politics. He's not a constitutional lawyer.

    Neither am I, of course, but it seems vanishingly unlikely that the SCOTUK would not come down on the side of Westminster. Allowing indyrefs is expressly reserved to Westminster. And it has to be, as otherwise any constituent nation of the UK could have a referendum any time it likes, twice a month maybe, if its Assembly has that power.

    The SNP could call seven a day until they get YES

    Logically the power is therefore reserved for Westminster.
    One would hope that the SCOTUK would be looking at the situation through the lens of legal and moral principle rather than that of feartie, hypocritical Unionism. I obviously have a higher opinion of British institutions than you.

    Nothing to do with emotions, pure legal logic. A state that has no control over its constituent nations, by allowing them to secede essentially at will, is not a state at all, and is a mad construct destined for perpetual constitutional and economic chaos.

    There was a reason the power to hold indyrefs was reserved to Westminster, this is it.

    The power to enact the result was reserved by Westminster.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    They’re both right. This has to be the last lockdown. That’s why it is imperative not to lift it too early. Rishi extended furlough to end April and I think that is about right. Open up gradually from then and then, hopefully, by the end of the year we will be talking about the next big crisis.

    There was an article from an epidemiologist at Brown University from November that said that if he were forced to make a judgment this was to be an 18 month pandemic. As a layman I’ve always bought that.
  • glwglw Posts: 7,775

    If we assume that it takes three weeks for vaccination to have an effect on the reported new infections then only vaccinations up to 13/01 will be having an effect.

    That is less than three million.

    Everyday from now on that number grows and grows quickly.

    I said 2 million, but checking I see that although the data was released on the 14th it only included up to the 7th. So your 3 million figure is better. Either way the bulk of the people vaccinated are as yet not going to be changing the infection number. Whitty more or less said that in the briefing this evening, it's over the next month that they anticipate seeing the vaccination making a significant difference.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055

    DougSeal said:
    That would require about 10m infections.

    As covid deaths in Delhi are nearly 11k that would suggest a 0.1% IFR.

    Which would be about half that of western cities.

    Delhi I would guess would have a younger age demographic and less obesity but would have more air pollution and worse health care.
    There is also a theory, floating around, that India was lucky enough to be hit by a "milder" variant. No idea if it is true
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    Noticeable from Boris tonight, plan for schools 8th March and talk of national easing mot regional. I took that we should expect lockdown or lockdown-- to continue for quite a lot of time yet.

    Beer gardens at Easter I reckon.

    Opening up more widely late June, first day of summer.
    I pray you to be right anabob. I like hearing all the good news. I want to be back to normal. Being greedy amongst so much destruction, I fear for the sport and arts I love.

    I want you to be right. I think you are wrong in the terms of speed to normality. Like others here. I think you underestimate human behaviours in this, thinking they are indestructible, hugging and carrying on as normal too soon prolonging the thing.

    Also, the +50s 1st & +70s 2nd occurring same time could slow things down a bit?

    There also must be question marks over variants. Little is known about the new wurzel COVID, but if it’s anything like wurzel as a dialect it’s going to take scientists a long time to understand it. Our Gee Gnoming capacity does receive due praise, but on the down side it does take them a long time to flag things up.
  • Liverpool 0 Brighton 1
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,477

    DougSeal said:
    That would require about 10m infections.

    As covid deaths in Delhi are nearly 11k that would suggest a 0.1% IFR.

    Which would be about half that of western cities.

    Delhi I would guess would have a younger age demographic and less obesity but would have more air pollution and worse health care.
    A younger age demographic will help massively with deaths, 6.2% of india is over 65. It's 18.7% here. Also only 3.9% obesity.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    New cases reported:

    06/01 62,322
    13/01 47,525
    20/01 38,905
    27/01 25,308
    03/02 19,202

    And that is with significantly higher testing and before vaccination has had more than a minor effect.

    Yep, lockdowns work. It is ending them that is problematic.
    Contrarian will not be happy about that last part.
    I am not advocating endless lockdown, but clearly ending them is tricky. There is the question of when, and how much.

    I think most transmission arises from household mixing, and inevitably as life resumes normality with schools, shops and the night time economy, rates will spike up.
    I think most people are now in the “let’s see this out however long it takes, get vaccinated, and then never do it again” camp. Gvt is pushing against an open door if it sticks with that policy.
    Keeping current rules and schools closed until May?

    I don't think that viable. There needs to be a balance between health and the economy, health and education, health and social isolation, health and travel etc. Ultimately that is a political judgement.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    New cases reported:

    06/01 62,322
    13/01 47,525
    20/01 38,905
    27/01 25,308
    03/02 19,202

    And that is with significantly higher testing and before vaccination has had more than a minor effect.

    Yep, lockdowns work. It is ending them that is problematic.
    Contrarian will not be happy about that last part.
    I am not advocating endless lockdown, but clearly ending them is tricky. There is the question of when, and how much.

    I think most transmission arises from household mixing, and inevitably as life resumes normality with schools, shops and the night time economy, rates will spike up.
    And that's why restrictions need to be released steadily, so they combine with (a) a rising proportion of the population being vaccinated, and (b) the warmer weather.

  • glw said:

    If we assume that it takes three weeks for vaccination to have an effect on the reported new infections then only vaccinations up to 13/01 will be having an effect.

    That is less than three million.

    Everyday from now on that number grows and grows quickly.

    I said 2 million, but checking I see that although the data was released on the 14th it only included up to the 7th. So your 3 million figure is better. Either way the bulk of the people vaccinated are as yet not going to be changing the infection number. Whitty more or less said that in the briefing this evening, it's over the next month that they anticipate seeing the vaccination making a significant difference.
    And the EU have not even started yet.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,406
    Anfield without the fans is not Anfield.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 13,055
    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Curtice is great on polling and good on politics. He's not a constitutional lawyer.

    Neither am I, of course, but it seems vanishingly unlikely that the SCOTUK would not come down on the side of Westminster. Allowing indyrefs is expressly reserved to Westminster. And it has to be, as otherwise any constituent nation of the UK could have a referendum any time it likes, twice a month maybe, if its Assembly has that power.

    The SNP could call seven a day until they get YES

    Logically the power is therefore reserved for Westminster.
    One would hope that the SCOTUK would be looking at the situation through the lens of legal and moral principle rather than that of feartie, hypocritical Unionism. I obviously have a higher opinion of British institutions than you.

    Nothing to do with emotions, pure legal logic. A state that has no control over its constituent nations, by allowing them to secede essentially at will, is not a state at all, and is a mad construct destined for perpetual constitutional and economic chaos.

    There was a reason the power to hold indyrefs was reserved to Westminster, this is it.

    The power to enact the result was reserved by Westminster.
    No.

    "Under the Scotland Act 1998, the Scottish Parliament is not allowed to pass legislation relating to matters “reserved” to Westminster, including “the Union of the Kingdoms of Scotland and England”. This is widely interpreted to mean that any referendum relating to Scottish independence would require Westminster approval. However, the matter has never been tested in court, so there remains some uncertainty about whether Holyrood could hold an advisory referendum without consent."

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/second-referendum-scottish-independence


    So it is possible that Sturgeon could hold a referendum without Westminster's consent, but it would be advisory, a wildcat vote, and it would be boycotted by Unionists. Back where we started. Shall we call it a night?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,253

    Anfield without the fans is not Anfield.

    Yes its probably almost pleasant
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    Pulpstar said:

    DougSeal said:
    That would require about 10m infections.

    As covid deaths in Delhi are nearly 11k that would suggest a 0.1% IFR.

    Which would be about half that of western cities.

    Delhi I would guess would have a younger age demographic and less obesity but would have more air pollution and worse health care.
    A younger age demographic will help massively with deaths, 6.2% of india is over 65. It's 18.7% here. Also only 3.9% obesity.
    Yes, but a high Asian ethnicity! Obesity, heart disease and diabetes are big problems in the urban population there too.

    I don't buy that they are near herd immunity at present, but an antibody population survey would give an indication.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,873
    glw said:

    If we assume that it takes three weeks for vaccination to have an effect on the reported new infections then only vaccinations up to 13/01 will be having an effect.

    That is less than three million.

    Everyday from now on that number grows and grows quickly.

    I said 2 million, but checking I see that although the data was released on the 14th it only included up to the 7th. So your 3 million figure is better. Either way the bulk of the people vaccinated are as yet not going to be changing the infection number. Whitty more or less said that in the briefing this evening, it's over the next month that they anticipate seeing the vaccination making a significant difference.
    The new cases reported today were mostly tested on 01/02 and so would likely have been infected about 25/01 or 26/01 and so would have need to have been vaccinated about 13/01 to have received any benefit and before 10/01 for a significant benefit.

    So two to three million.

    But growing everyday from now on :smile:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    New cases reported:

    06/01 62,322
    13/01 47,525
    20/01 38,905
    27/01 25,308
    03/02 19,202

    And that is with significantly higher testing and before vaccination has had more than a minor effect.

    Yep, lockdowns work. It is ending them that is problematic.
    Contrarian will not be happy about that last part.
    I am not advocating endless lockdown, but clearly ending them is tricky. There is the question of when, and how much.

    I think most transmission arises from household mixing, and inevitably as life resumes normality with schools, shops and the night time economy, rates will spike up.
    And that's why restrictions need to be released steadily, so they combine with (a) a rising proportion of the population being vaccinated, and (b) the warmer weather.

    Let's hope for better ideas than "Eat Out To Help Out".
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539

    If we assume that it takes three weeks for vaccination to have an effect on the reported new infections then only vaccinations up to 13/01 will be having an effect.

    That is less than three million.

    Everyday from now on that number grows and grows quickly.

    The data I shared earlier from today’s ZOE webinar suggests two weeks is the key point, after which the first dose roughly halves the new infection rate. Noting that after four weeks the new infection rate is still only being halved, not near eliminated.

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Will from the Inbetweeners no?
    Yes, he does look as if he had a briefcase at school.
    We had a German exchange student in the Sixth Form who had a metal briefcase. Someone changed the combination on it and he actually flew back to Munich to get the bloody thing opened again.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 24,566
    DougSeal said:

    They’re both right. This has to be the last lockdown. That’s why it is imperative not to lift it too early. Rishi extended furlough to end April and I think that is about right. Open up gradually from then and then, hopefully, by the end of the year we will be talking about the next big crisis.

    There was an article from an epidemiologist at Brown University from November that said that if he were forced to make a judgment this was to be an 18 month pandemic. As a layman I’ve always bought that.
    Whatever he thinks and however right he might be - and I have no idea about that - Sunak should shut the f**k up at least as far as comments that get into the papers are concerned.

    There are still far too many nutters out there who believe this is all a giant conspiracy and they want to keep us in lockdown forever. Sunak's reported comments will simply play to that narrative and make it all the more difficult to maintain the lockdown as more people get vaccinated - something that was already going to be a tough job.

    Moreover it is dishonest. In situations like this the science changes, it is inevitable as we are dealing with a living, evolving thing. Scientists can only advise on what they know at the time. It is for politicians like Sunak and his boss to make decisions on things like lockdown - they are political decisions informed by the science, not scientific decisions and implying it is the fault of the scientists is thoroughly dishonest

    I have expressed a lot of admiration for how Sunak has handled things to date but this is a really stupid thing to let seep onto the front pages.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,232
    Lol, just noticed the 'Captain Cook statues next on activists' list' headline in the breadcrumb stories. I wonder how many statue stories will feature on Tele front pages over the next 12 months?
  • glwglw Posts: 7,775

    glw said:

    If we assume that it takes three weeks for vaccination to have an effect on the reported new infections then only vaccinations up to 13/01 will be having an effect.

    That is less than three million.

    Everyday from now on that number grows and grows quickly.

    I said 2 million, but checking I see that although the data was released on the 14th it only included up to the 7th. So your 3 million figure is better. Either way the bulk of the people vaccinated are as yet not going to be changing the infection number. Whitty more or less said that in the briefing this evening, it's over the next month that they anticipate seeing the vaccination making a significant difference.
    And the EU have not even started yet.
    And some of the EU members are proposing to only use the AZ vaccine on people a lot less likely to die. Which is a strategy that makes claims of what the "evil Tories" are up to look like small beer, as least the "evil Tories" are planning on vaccinating the people who need it most.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    New cases reported:

    06/01 62,322
    13/01 47,525
    20/01 38,905
    27/01 25,308
    03/02 19,202

    And that is with significantly higher testing and before vaccination has had more than a minor effect.

    Yep, lockdowns work. It is ending them that is problematic.
    Contrarian will not be happy about that last part.
    I am not advocating endless lockdown, but clearly ending them is tricky. There is the question of when, and how much.

    I think most transmission arises from household mixing, and inevitably as life resumes normality with schools, shops and the night time economy, rates will spike up.
    I think most people are now in the “let’s see this out however long it takes, get vaccinated, and then never do it again” camp. Gvt is pushing against an open door if it sticks with that policy.
    Keeping current rules and schools closed until May?

    I don't think that viable. There needs to be a balance between health and the economy, health and education, health and social isolation, health and travel etc. Ultimately that is a political judgement.
    Trouble is if most people really are now in the “let’s see this out however long it takes" mode and for sticking out it becomes very difficult for No. 10 to do otherwise. Unfortunately the economy is in utter free fall. Interesting that Sunak has launched his kickback at the brewing attempts by advisors to change the goals of all this.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,253
    edited February 3
    glw said:

    glw said:

    If we assume that it takes three weeks for vaccination to have an effect on the reported new infections then only vaccinations up to 13/01 will be having an effect.

    That is less than three million.

    Everyday from now on that number grows and grows quickly.

    I said 2 million, but checking I see that although the data was released on the 14th it only included up to the 7th. So your 3 million figure is better. Either way the bulk of the people vaccinated are as yet not going to be changing the infection number. Whitty more or less said that in the briefing this evening, it's over the next month that they anticipate seeing the vaccination making a significant difference.
    And the EU have not even started yet.
    And some of the EU members are proposing to only use the AZ vaccine on people a lot less likely to die. Which is a strategy that makes claims of what the "evil Tories" are up to look like small beer, as least the "evil Tories" are planning on vaccinating the people who need it most.
    Perhaps the eu members are merely subtly correcting their demographic bulge?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654

    Anfield without the fans is not Anfield.

    Football without the fans isn't football. That is why there are such ludicrous results happening.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,477
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    New cases reported:

    06/01 62,322
    13/01 47,525
    20/01 38,905
    27/01 25,308
    03/02 19,202

    And that is with significantly higher testing and before vaccination has had more than a minor effect.

    Yep, lockdowns work. It is ending them that is problematic.
    Contrarian will not be happy about that last part.
    I am not advocating endless lockdown, but clearly ending them is tricky. There is the question of when, and how much.

    I think most transmission arises from household mixing, and inevitably as life resumes normality with schools, shops and the night time economy, rates will spike up.
    And that's why restrictions need to be released steadily, so they combine with (a) a rising proportion of the population being vaccinated, and (b) the warmer weather.

    The big and entirely unglamorous restriction release is schools reopening.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    Leicester play both Brighton and Liverpool next week. Looking at that display, Brighton are the ones to fear.

    Foxes sitting comfortably third 😊
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    New cases reported:

    06/01 62,322
    13/01 47,525
    20/01 38,905
    27/01 25,308
    03/02 19,202

    And that is with significantly higher testing and before vaccination has had more than a minor effect.

    Yep, lockdowns work. It is ending them that is problematic.
    Contrarian will not be happy about that last part.
    I am not advocating endless lockdown, but clearly ending them is tricky. There is the question of when, and how much.

    I think most transmission arises from household mixing, and inevitably as life resumes normality with schools, shops and the night time economy, rates will spike up.
    I think most people are now in the “let’s see this out however long it takes, get vaccinated, and then never do it again” camp. Gvt is pushing against an open door if it sticks with that policy.
    Keeping current rules and schools closed until May?

    I don't think that viable. There needs to be a balance between health and the economy, health and education, health and social isolation, health and travel etc. Ultimately that is a political judgement.
    Yes, fair enough, I should have caveatted with “however long it takes to cover groups 1-9 with their first jab”. I’m assumed some limited time off for good behaviour in time for Easter.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,253

    Anfield without the fans is not Anfield.

    Football without the fans isn't football. That is why there are such ludicrous results happening.
    It is a curious that a lot here that say they are against organised religion are all for organised sports which surely is the second biggest driver of violence and division
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Foxy said:

    New cases reported:

    06/01 62,322
    13/01 47,525
    20/01 38,905
    27/01 25,308
    03/02 19,202

    And that is with significantly higher testing and before vaccination has had more than a minor effect.

    Yep, lockdowns work. It is ending them that is problematic.
    There's a big test already coming on that front. Can the Government go more than another five minutes without giving into both the temptation and the pressure to follow Sturgeon's suit on opening schools? I mean, I understand why they're completely obsessed with the damned subject, but if the little superspreaders are let loose too soon then there may be a fearful and wholly avoidable disaster.

    Just because a fresh outbreak might not kill granny anymore, it still has a considerable capacity to kill or maim the middle-aged with this disease and send another tidal wave of victims to swamp the hospitals. And even for those who care more about kiddies learning their times tables than the body count, this ultimately does children more harm than good as well if they just end up being locked back up in their homes after a few weeks.

    I hope the Government will show some restraint this time around and, at a minimum, keep the secondaries off until the presently dreadful weather has warmed right up, and the caseload is down to very low levels - but this lot don't exactly fill me with confidence.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,562
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    New cases reported:

    06/01 62,322
    13/01 47,525
    20/01 38,905
    27/01 25,308
    03/02 19,202

    And that is with significantly higher testing and before vaccination has had more than a minor effect.

    Yep, lockdowns work. It is ending them that is problematic.
    Contrarian will not be happy about that last part.
    I am not advocating endless lockdown, but clearly ending them is tricky. There is the question of when, and how much.

    I think most transmission arises from household mixing, and inevitably as life resumes normality with schools, shops and the night time economy, rates will spike up.
    I think most people are now in the “let’s see this out however long it takes, get vaccinated, and then never do it again” camp. Gvt is pushing against an open door if it sticks with that policy.
    Keeping current rules and schools closed until May?

    I don't think that viable. There needs to be a balance between health and the economy, health and education, health and social isolation, health and travel etc. Ultimately that is a political judgement.
    You don't need to have all schools going back simultaenously: infant and junior in March and secondary after Easter makes sense.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DougSeal said:
    That would require about 10m infections.

    As covid deaths in Delhi are nearly 11k that would suggest a 0.1% IFR.

    Which would be about half that of western cities.

    Delhi I would guess would have a younger age demographic and less obesity but would have more air pollution and worse health care.
    A younger age demographic will help massively with deaths, 6.2% of india is over 65. It's 18.7% here. Also only 3.9% obesity.
    Yes, but a high Asian ethnicity! Obesity, heart disease and diabetes are big problems in the urban population there too.

    I don't buy that they are near herd immunity at present, but an antibody population survey would give an indication.
    This was a serological survey. My time in India was nearly 30 years ago now but social distancing in the big cities is impossible. I find it very easy to believe that more than 50% have been infected there. But herd immunity I am not qualified to comment upon.


    A sero survey is conducted every month by the Delhi government to assess the spread of coronavirus infection. According to the Health Minister of Delhi government, 28,000 samples were tested from all over Delhi in the fifth sero survey, which ran between January 15 and January 23. A total of 56.13% people have been found positive in the sero survey.

    This means that 56.13% of the population of Delhi has developed antibodies against Covid-19 by unknowingly getting infected with Covid-19 and following recovery.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594

    Lol, just noticed the 'Captain Cook statues next on activists' list' headline in the breadcrumb stories. I wonder how many statue stories will feature on Tele front pages over the next 12 months?
    It is the constitutional role of the Daily Telegraph to force splutterings of marmalade and toast in the shires every morning.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,406
    edited February 3
    Pagan2 said:

    Anfield without the fans is not Anfield.

    Football without the fans isn't football. That is why there are such ludicrous results happening.
    It is a curious that a lot here that say they are against organised religion are all for organised sports which surely is the second biggest driver of violence and division
    Organised sports are fun and entertaining, not violent and dividing.

    I can take the piss out of a United fan all day long - but very happily doing so in a pub drinking pints in rounds with him.

    That's social and a part of life, not violent or dividing while he gives as good as he gets.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    Pagan2 said:

    Anfield without the fans is not Anfield.

    Football without the fans isn't football. That is why there are such ludicrous results happening.
    It is a curious that a lot here that say they are against organised religion are all for organised sports which surely is the second biggest driver of violence and division
    Not sure why your reply is relevant to what I was saying .... but it is all but certain that crowds affect players and therefore results.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478

    Liverpool 0 Brighton 1

    Always tough to win at Anfield.
    Liverpool haven't done it since December 13th.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,873
    IanB2 said:

    If we assume that it takes three weeks for vaccination to have an effect on the reported new infections then only vaccinations up to 13/01 will be having an effect.

    That is less than three million.

    Everyday from now on that number grows and grows quickly.

    The data I shared earlier from today’s ZOE webinar suggests two weeks is the key point, after which the first dose roughly halves the new infection rate. Noting that after four weeks the new infection rate is still only being halved, not near eliminated.

    Infection is only the first part of the equation.

    The effects of health and transmission are vital as well.

    It doesn't matter if you catch it if it doesn't make you sick and if you can't pass it on to others.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    dixiedean said:

    Liverpool 0 Brighton 1

    Always tough to win at Anfield.
    Liverpool haven't done it since December 13th.
    🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
  • RogerRoger Posts: 14,945
    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Who's Rachael Swindon? Whoever it is has a point though it would be nice to know where she's coming from
    She was a Jezza fanatic
    Thanks. I've just found her. I thought she might be an MP but she's just Rachael from Swindon. I wouldn't like to fight her for a telephone box.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    dixiedean said:

    Liverpool 0 Brighton 1

    Always tough to win at Anfield.
    Liverpool haven't done it since December 13th.
    Too cruel.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629
    Charles said:

    Roger said:

    Who's Rachael Swindon? Whoever it is has a point though it would be nice to know where she's coming from
    She was a Jezza fanatic
    Corbyn really matters
    Anyone can see
    Corbyn really matters
    Corbyn really matters to me
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,253

    Pagan2 said:

    Anfield without the fans is not Anfield.

    Football without the fans isn't football. That is why there are such ludicrous results happening.
    It is a curious that a lot here that say they are against organised religion are all for organised sports which surely is the second biggest driver of violence and division
    Not sure why your reply is relevant to what I was saying .... but it is all but certain that crowds affect players and therefore results.
    It is relevant in as much as I think the world would be a much better place if we banned all tv and press coverage of both sports and religion. Tangential maybe but still linked
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,553

    Liverpool 0 Brighton 1

    Long way to go but my money is firmly on city now. (And before foxy gets excited, that’s the Manchester flavour...)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,629
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:
    That would require about 10m infections.

    As covid deaths in Delhi are nearly 11k that would suggest a 0.1% IFR.

    Which would be about half that of western cities.

    Delhi I would guess would have a younger age demographic and less obesity but would have more air pollution and worse health care.
    There is also a theory, floating around, that India was lucky enough to be hit by a "milder" variant. No idea if it is true
    Did you get that from Twatter too?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:
    That would require about 10m infections.

    As covid deaths in Delhi are nearly 11k that would suggest a 0.1% IFR.

    Which would be about half that of western cities.

    Delhi I would guess would have a younger age demographic and less obesity but would have more air pollution and worse health care.
    There is also a theory, floating around, that India was lucky enough to be hit by a "milder" variant. No idea if it is true
    That I find absolutely impossible to believe. It’s not as if they closed the border and the virus is immune to mutation there. How many people flew into India from the UK before they restricted travel in November?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    DougSeal said:
    That would require about 10m infections.

    As covid deaths in Delhi are nearly 11k that would suggest a 0.1% IFR.

    Which would be about half that of western cities.

    Delhi I would guess would have a younger age demographic and less obesity but would have more air pollution and worse health care.
    A younger age demographic will help massively with deaths, 6.2% of india is over 65. It's 18.7% here. Also only 3.9% obesity.
    Yes, but a high Asian ethnicity! Obesity, heart disease and diabetes are big problems in the urban population there too.

    I don't buy that they are near herd immunity at present, but an antibody population survey would give an indication.
    This was a serological survey. My time in India was nearly 30 years ago now but social distancing in the big cities is impossible. I find it very easy to believe that more than 50% have been infected there. But herd immunity I am not qualified to comment upon.


    A sero survey is conducted every month by the Delhi government to assess the spread of coronavirus infection. According to the Health Minister of Delhi government, 28,000 samples were tested from all over Delhi in the fifth sero survey, which ran between January 15 and January 23. A total of 56.13% people have been found positive in the sero survey.

    This means that 56.13% of the population of Delhi has developed antibodies against Covid-19 by unknowingly getting infected with Covid-19 and following recovery.
    Fair enough.

    I don't think that high enough for herd immunity, but fair enough. A lot depends on how representative the survey was, I suppose.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 4,260
    edited February 3
    Is that better or worse than when Owen Paterson accused badgers of moving the goalposts?

    But seriously- Rishi needs to wind it in here. Two things are pretty clear;

    One is that this is nearly over. By the end of the month, we'll be in the high single thousands of infections a day, that feeds through to tens of deaths, and with spring coming and sufficient vaccination, that's it. It's not hard to hold numbers down over the summer, and the key thing is to be Covid-proof come September. The only way this goes wrong is if we unlock too quickly.

    Second is that the reason we've had a rubbish autumn and winter is because we let the numbers get out of hand in September/October, and then didn't do enough subsequently to get control back.

    The chancellor either doesn't understand that (in which case he's dimmer than I think he is) or he does, but is fluttering his eyelashes at the right wing (in which case he's playing a pretty unpleasant cynical game). Neither look is becoming. Is it (and maybe Govey's antics today) a reaction to Matt H's glory over the last week or so?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 4,253
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:
    That would require about 10m infections.

    As covid deaths in Delhi are nearly 11k that would suggest a 0.1% IFR.

    Which would be about half that of western cities.

    Delhi I would guess would have a younger age demographic and less obesity but would have more air pollution and worse health care.
    There is also a theory, floating around, that India was lucky enough to be hit by a "milder" variant. No idea if it is true
    That I find absolutely impossible to believe. It’s not as if they closed the border and the virus is immune to mutation there. How many people flew into India from the UK before they restricted travel in November?
    It is also to be born in mind that india is judged lucky purely on number of deaths. As many have pointed out we dont know the long term effects of covid and anecdotally we are told many suffer lifetime from the after effects we just dont have stats
  • dixiedean said:

    Liverpool 0 Brighton 1

    Always tough to win at Anfield.
    Liverpool haven't done it since December 13th.
    Indeed, Everton haven't won at Anfield since the last millennium.

    Heck, Everton haven't beaten Liverpool anywhere in over a decade.

    Checks notes.

    Everton have only won *4* out of 47 Merseyside derbies this millennium.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,480
    Starmer's significantly higher rating in Scotland than Boris confirms why Boris will not grant any indyref2 as PM but Starmer might do if he ever gets to No 10
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592

    Liverpool 0 Brighton 1

    Long way to go but my money is firmly on city now. (And before foxy gets excited, that’s the Manchester flavour...)
    Nah, I just want to finish in the CL places, and above Spurs and Arsenal. I have modest dreams.
  • glw said:

    The real problem for Labour is that Starmer isn't the problem. It's the lightweights and leftovers around him that are putting people off.
    Starmer isn't the problem?? Ha!

    The problem for Labour they are totally wrong headed.

    In other news PBers continue at their supercilious condescending best.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,893
    HYUFD said:
    Patriotism is overrated. What is is good for?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,478

    dixiedean said:

    Liverpool 0 Brighton 1

    Always tough to win at Anfield.
    Liverpool haven't done it since December 13th.
    Indeed, Everton haven't won at Anfield since the last millennium.

    Heck, Everton haven't beaten Liverpool anywhere in over a decade.

    Checks notes.

    Everton have only won *4* out of 47 Merseyside derbies this millennium.
    Won tonight though.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,406
    dixiedean said:

    Liverpool 0 Brighton 1

    Always tough to win at Anfield.
    Liverpool haven't done it since December 13th.
    Ouch.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,526

    HYUFD said:
    Patriotism is overrated. What is is good for?
    Winning elections...

    Or else why has Starmer suddenly become a very visual vexillographer?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    Leon said:

    Alistair said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Curtice is great on polling and good on politics. He's not a constitutional lawyer.

    Neither am I, of course, but it seems vanishingly unlikely that the SCOTUK would not come down on the side of Westminster. Allowing indyrefs is expressly reserved to Westminster. And it has to be, as otherwise any constituent nation of the UK could have a referendum any time it likes, twice a month maybe, if its Assembly has that power.

    The SNP could call seven a day until they get YES

    Logically the power is therefore reserved for Westminster.
    One would hope that the SCOTUK would be looking at the situation through the lens of legal and moral principle rather than that of feartie, hypocritical Unionism. I obviously have a higher opinion of British institutions than you.

    Nothing to do with emotions, pure legal logic. A state that has no control over its constituent nations, by allowing them to secede essentially at will, is not a state at all, and is a mad construct destined for perpetual constitutional and economic chaos.

    There was a reason the power to hold indyrefs was reserved to Westminster, this is it.

    The power to enact the result was reserved by Westminster.
    No.

    "Under the Scotland Act 1998, the Scottish Parliament is not allowed to pass legislation relating to matters “reserved” to Westminster, including “the Union of the Kingdoms of Scotland and England”. This is widely interpreted to mean that any referendum relating to Scottish independence would require Westminster approval. However, the matter has never been tested in court, so there remains some uncertainty about whether Holyrood could hold an advisory referendum without consent."

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/second-referendum-scottish-independence


    So it is possible that Sturgeon could hold a referendum without Westminster's consent, but it would be advisory, a wildcat vote, and it would be boycotted by Unionists. Back where we started. Shall we call it a night?
    The referendum in 2014 was advisory.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,594


    Is that better or worse than when Owen Paterson accused badgers of moving the goalposts?

    But seriously- Rishi needs to wind it in here. Two things are pretty clear;

    One is that this is nearly over. By the end of the month, we'll be in the high single thousands of infections a day, that feeds through to tens of deaths, and with spring coming and sufficient vaccination, that's it. It's not hard to hold numbers down over the summer, and the key thing is to be Covid-proof come September. The only way this goes wrong is if we unlock too quickly.

    Second is that the reason we've had a rubbish autumn and winter is because we let the numbers get out of hand in September/October, and then didn't do enough subsequently to get control back.

    The chancellor either doesn't understand that (in which case he's dimmer than I think he is) or he does, but is fluttering his eyelashes at the right wing (in which case he's playing a pretty unpleasant cynical game). Neither look is becoming. Is it (and maybe Govey's antics today) a reaction to Matt H's glory over the last week or so?
    Possibly he's firing a warning shot to the medical advisors that they shouldn't start coming up with schemes for zero-covid level suppression.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,480

    HYUFD said:
    Patriotism is overrated. What is is good for?
    Electing Tories on that poll!!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,826
    "Expert: European leaders endangering their people's health by attacking UK vaccine rollout
    Leaders in Europe are recklessly endangering their own public’s health by using self-serving point-scoring to attack Britain’s coronavirus vaccine rollout, UK health experts have warned.

    Kent Woods, a former chief of both the UK and European Union medicines regulators, told AFP: "This can only be negative on the vaccine takeup in France, in Germany and others. This is bad for public health. Forget the politics. This is a threat to public health and people in the public eye need to be very cautious in the messages they make. The key point to make is that the views coming out from politicians in Europe are in striking contrast to the scientific view reached by the European regulator, which has representation from all 27 EU member states. These are politically driven rather than scientifically driven.""

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/feb/03/coronavirus-live-news-who-warns-vaccine-nationalism-will-spawn-new-covid-mutations?page=with:block-601ae5e68f08287e58467c2a#liveblog-navigation
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,480

    Conference is going to be fun if the May elections happen and he doesn’t sweep all before him.
    The Tories won the 2017 county council elections by 11% over Labour so Starmer will almost certainly make gains in the May locals even if the Tories still win them
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 732
    Late to the party. Back on topic, having met both Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon several times, I am amazed how poor Salmond’s ratings are. However most people will judge him based on what they’re told by the media. Not surprised at Sturgeon’s ratings. She is a competent manager and good communicator - exactly what is needed just now. Maybe she will surprise me and call an Indyref, but I won’t hold my breath.
  • glwglw Posts: 7,775
    Andy_JS said:

    "Expert: European leaders endangering their people's health by attacking UK vaccine rollout
    Leaders in Europe are recklessly endangering their own public’s health by using self-serving point-scoring to attack Britain’s coronavirus vaccine rollout, UK health experts have warned.

    Kent Woods, a former chief of both the UK and European Union medicines regulators, told AFP: "This can only be negative on the vaccine takeup in France, in Germany and others. This is bad for public health. Forget the politics. This is a threat to public health and people in the public eye need to be very cautious in the messages they make. The key point to make is that the views coming out from politicians in Europe are in striking contrast to the scientific view reached by the European regulator, which has representation from all 27 EU member states. These are politically driven rather than scientifically driven.""

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/feb/03/coronavirus-live-news-who-warns-vaccine-nationalism-will-spawn-new-covid-mutations?page=with:block-601ae5e68f08287e58467c2a#liveblog-navigation

    When the UK's vaccination strategy works will we see the Mother Of All Reverse Ferrets?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,592
    edited February 3

    HYUFD said:
    Patriotism is overrated. What is is good for?
    Absolutely nothing, say it again y'all

    https://youtu.be/01-2pNCZiNk
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,039
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Paywalled. What did he have a moan about with Mr J, please?
    Sounds like the resigned dude was just not very charming, and, frankly, annoyed a lot of people. Not much else
    Sounds like most of the cabinet.
    What made him stand out ?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 20,191
    edited February 3

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    New cases reported:

    06/01 62,322
    13/01 47,525
    20/01 38,905
    27/01 25,308
    03/02 19,202

    And that is with significantly higher testing and before vaccination has had more than a minor effect.

    Yep, lockdowns work. It is ending them that is problematic.
    Contrarian will not be happy about that last part.
    I am not advocating endless lockdown, but clearly ending them is tricky. There is the question of when, and how much.

    I think most transmission arises from household mixing, and inevitably as life resumes normality with schools, shops and the night time economy, rates will spike up.
    I think most people are now in the “let’s see this out however long it takes, get vaccinated, and then never do it again” camp. Gvt is pushing against an open door if it sticks with that policy.
    Keeping current rules and schools closed until May?

    I don't think that viable. There needs to be a balance between health and the economy, health and education, health and social isolation, health and travel etc. Ultimately that is a political judgement.
    Yes, fair enough, I should have caveatted with “however long it takes to cover groups 1-9 with their first jab”. I’m assumed some limited time off for good behaviour in time for Easter.
    Does anyone know what the timeline of Pfizer trial in the US for secondary school aged children is?

    I would imagine that the teachers would be.... interested in a situation where they were vaccinated and the children they were teaching were vaccinated as well.

    EDIT : I just found https://www.aha.org/news/headline/2021-01-25-pfizer-finishes-enrolling-children-12-15-covid-19-vaccine-study - which says that they finished enrolling for a phase III study in January.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    glw said:

    The real problem for Labour is that Starmer isn't the problem. It's the lightweights and leftovers around him that are putting people off.
    Starmer isn't the problem?? Ha!

    The problem for Labour they are totally wrong headed.

    In other news PBers continue at their supercilious condescending best.
    Thank you, we try.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 11,154
    Dawn Butler has just misnamed the Kent strain as the Essex strain.

    That won’t go down well in Essex, where they say the only good thing about Kent is the view.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,873
    A French start-up received an order from the UK government for 40 million doses of its vaccine yesterday – with the UK to now be given priority access to the vaccine over France and the rest of the European Union.

    The vaccine is expected to be in the UK by June this year but may not be available in France until 2022.

    President and Chief Business Officer of biotech company Valneva, Franck Grimaud, has estimated that the first vaccines will be delivered to the UK as soon as medical trials are complete – possibly as early as June 2021.

    But vaccines are only likely to be available to the EU around the beginning of 2022, even though the company is based in Saint-Herblain, Pays de la Loire, west France.

    ...

    The regional council president of the Pays de la Loire region has blamed the industry ministry for a missed opportunity to provide the vaccine to local people.

    In a statement, President Christelle Morançais said: “It is vital that the state proves it has much more agility and reactivity when it comes to supporting and defending our companies at the forefront of fighting the virus.”

    "France has missed the chance of 'its' own Covid vaccine."

    "I have a terrible feeling of waste and of incomprehension in the face of this French and European failure," she added.


    https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-vaccine-startup-sells-40million-extra-doses-to-UK
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    Late to the party. Back on topic, having met both Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon several times, I am amazed how poor Salmond’s ratings are. However most people will judge him based on what they’re told by the media. Not surprised at Sturgeon’s ratings. She is a competent manager and good communicator - exactly what is needed just now. Maybe she will surprise me and call an Indyref, but I won’t hold my breath.

    I think a comment earlier about how Salmond managed to trash his reputation among those who liked him with things like being on RT, whilst those who hated him continued to do so, was quite apposite.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,232
    Fuxake, 'too many bloody Jocks' was a joke, turns out he was the only one!

    https://twitter.com/bellacaledonia/status/1357070392431677440?s=20
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759
    edited February 3

    Dawn Butler has just misnamed the Kent strain as the Essex strain.

    That won’t go down well in Essex, where they say the only good thing about Kent is the view.

    Labour taking a hit in Essex? And to think they were this close to winning seats there.

    This being around 10,000 votes for the easiest one.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,477

    A French start-up received an order from the UK government for 40 million doses of its vaccine yesterday – with the UK to now be given priority access to the vaccine over France and the rest of the European Union.

    The vaccine is expected to be in the UK by June this year but may not be available in France until 2022.

    President and Chief Business Officer of biotech company Valneva, Franck Grimaud, has estimated that the first vaccines will be delivered to the UK as soon as medical trials are complete – possibly as early as June 2021.

    But vaccines are only likely to be available to the EU around the beginning of 2022, even though the company is based in Saint-Herblain, Pays de la Loire, west France.

    ...

    The regional council president of the Pays de la Loire region has blamed the industry ministry for a missed opportunity to provide the vaccine to local people.

    In a statement, President Christelle Morançais said: “It is vital that the state proves it has much more agility and reactivity when it comes to supporting and defending our companies at the forefront of fighting the virus.”

    "France has missed the chance of 'its' own Covid vaccine."

    "I have a terrible feeling of waste and of incomprehension in the face of this French and European failure," she added.


    https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-vaccine-startup-sells-40million-extra-doses-to-UK

    Every 20 year old here is going to have the saffer super booster before France has the first dose given to their over 70s. Well probably not but it sort of looks like that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    Fuxake, 'too many bloody Jocks' was a joke, turns out he was the only one!

    https://twitter.com/bellacaledonia/status/1357070392431677440?s=20

    Sounds like there's an opening, you could apply for the gig?

    They sound desperate enough that you could suggest obvious sabotage plans and they might go for them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    HYUFD said:
    Patriotism is overrated. What is is good for?
    I don't think politicians need to be particularly patriotic. But people don't like to think they are being judged for being patriotic themselves
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 11,154
    Pulpstar said:

    A French start-up received an order from the UK government for 40 million doses of its vaccine yesterday – with the UK to now be given priority access to the vaccine over France and the rest of the European Union.

    The vaccine is expected to be in the UK by June this year but may not be available in France until 2022.

    President and Chief Business Officer of biotech company Valneva, Franck Grimaud, has estimated that the first vaccines will be delivered to the UK as soon as medical trials are complete – possibly as early as June 2021.

    But vaccines are only likely to be available to the EU around the beginning of 2022, even though the company is based in Saint-Herblain, Pays de la Loire, west France.

    ...

    The regional council president of the Pays de la Loire region has blamed the industry ministry for a missed opportunity to provide the vaccine to local people.

    In a statement, President Christelle Morançais said: “It is vital that the state proves it has much more agility and reactivity when it comes to supporting and defending our companies at the forefront of fighting the virus.”

    "France has missed the chance of 'its' own Covid vaccine."

    "I have a terrible feeling of waste and of incomprehension in the face of this French and European failure," she added.


    https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-vaccine-startup-sells-40million-extra-doses-to-UK

    Every 20 year old here is going to have the saffer super booster before France has the first dose given to their over 70s. Well probably not but it sort of looks like that.
    I mean WTAF is going on in France?? It’s very sad to see. The entire vaccine procurement and delivery programme is a complete disgrace.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,406
    kle4 said:

    Late to the party. Back on topic, having met both Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon several times, I am amazed how poor Salmond’s ratings are. However most people will judge him based on what they’re told by the media. Not surprised at Sturgeon’s ratings. She is a competent manager and good communicator - exactly what is needed just now. Maybe she will surprise me and call an Indyref, but I won’t hold my breath.

    I think a comment earlier about how Salmond managed to trash his reputation among those who liked him with things like being on RT, whilst those who hated him continued to do so, was quite apposite.
    Not trashed with everyone.

    According to malcolmg he's not a naughty boy, he's just the messiah.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    Fuxake, 'too many bloody Jocks' was a joke, turns out he was the only one!

    https://twitter.com/bellacaledonia/status/1357070392431677440?s=20

    Perhaps he was also fired for inappropriate Jockularity?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,232
    kle4 said:

    Fuxake, 'too many bloody Jocks' was a joke, turns out he was the only one!

    https://twitter.com/bellacaledonia/status/1357070392431677440?s=20

    Sounds like there's an opening, you could apply for the gig?

    They sound desperate enough that you could suggest obvious sabotage plans and they might go for them.
    My natural Calvinist instinct to do a decent job would be a fatal flaw.
    Anyway they really do seem to be able to fuck it up magnificently all by themselves.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 90,480
    edited February 3

    Fuxake, 'too many bloody Jocks' was a joke, turns out he was the only one!

    https://twitter.com/bellacaledonia/status/1357070392431677440?s=20

    'Luke had gradually pissed off more and more people. He didn’t endear himself to other spads [special advisers], ministers or civil servants. No one was weeping to see him go,” one government official said.'

    His replacement '“Oliver is good at this stuff — he knows this can’t just be about brute economics,” said one colleague. “It’s about passion, identity and about promoting the idea that you can be proud to be Scottish and British.”
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 732

    Fuxake, 'too many bloody Jocks' was a joke, turns out he was the only one!

    https://twitter.com/bellacaledonia/status/1357070392431677440?s=20

    He’s so good that he managed to lose his seat to John Nicolson. Even Jo Swinson was able to beat John Nicolson.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,406
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:
    Patriotism is overrated. What is is good for?
    Absolutely nothing, say it again y'all

    https://youtu.be/01-2pNCZiNk
    Is it bad I thought that song was originally Frankie goes to Hollywood?
This discussion has been closed.