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With just three months to go before the Scottish elections a ratings boost for Sturgeon and the SNP

SystemSystem Posts: 12,127
edited February 2021 in General
imageWith just three months to go before the Scottish elections a ratings boost for Sturgeon and the SNP – politicalbetting.com

We don’t often see Scotland specific YouGov favourability ratings but these have just been published by YouGov. It is striking how much better Sturgeon is doing than her party.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    First, like the guy who posts before anybody else.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    edited February 2021
    First?

    Edit: Apparently so.

    My goodness. The Scottish elections are still three months away? I'm not sure how much more not caring at all I can take.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Endillion said:

    First?

    That ? was your downfall.
  • First because I self identify as FIRST.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Going fourth!
  • It will be interesting to see how Labour performs in the LEs.
  • Endillion said:

    First?

    Edit: Apparently so.

    My goodness. The Scottish elections are still three months away? I'm not sure how much more not caring at all I can take.

    I plan to do at least one Scotland thread every Sunday between now and election day.

    I will not mention my brilliant record in Scotland.

    Winning on the SNP winning a majority in 2011.

    Accurately predicting No would win the Indyref.

    Following Alastair's magnificent tips on the SNP landslide in the 2015 GE.

    Winning at 10/1 and 8/1 on election day the SNP wouldn't win a majority in 2016.

    My brilliant tip of 20/1 on the Tories to win more than 9.5 seats in Scotland at GE2017.

    #LegendaryModesty
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    IshmaelZ said:

    Endillion said:

    First?

    That ? was your downfall.
    Apparently. And now it won't let me edit again.

    :(
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    Speaking of cricket, Ollie Pope may be about to find out what life is like at 3:

    Zak Crawley suffers suspected broken wrist after slipping in Chennai nets
    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/india-vs-england-2020-21-zak-crawley-suffers-suspected-broken-wrist-after-slipping-in-chennai-nets-1249974

    They would surely put Lawrence in at 3. He's not as good as Crawley but there is the minor compensation that he's not a bad part-time spinner should the need arise.
    More likely Stokes or Ali.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    First because I self identify as FIRST.

    Typical of somebody with an a gender.
  • Why is Alex Salmond polling so badly, he was the victim of the most political motivated kangaroo court since Jesus Christ was tried before the Sanhedrin.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    IshmaelZ said:

    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.

    It’s encouraging that while the Scots may have fallen for a bunch of tub thumping incompetent xenophobes, they at least have enough taste to reject creepy sex pests.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Endillion said:

    First?

    Edit: Apparently so.

    My goodness. The Scottish elections are still three months away? I'm not sure how much more not caring at all I can take.

    I plan to do at least one Scotland thread every Sunday between now and election day.

    I will not mention my brilliant record in Scotland.

    Winning on the SNP winning a majority in 2011.

    Accurately predicting No would win the Indyref.

    Following Alastair's magnificent tips on the SNP landslide in the 2015 GE.

    Winning at 10/1 and 8/1 on election day the SNP wouldn't win a majority in 2016.

    My brilliant tip of 20/1 on the Tories to win more than 9.5 seats in Scotland at GE2017.

    #LegendaryModesty
    If you could only tell good whisky from bad,* you would be our leading Scotch expert.

    *Which I am assuming, as a good Muslim you can’t.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,281
    edited February 2021
    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    Speaking of cricket, Ollie Pope may be about to find out what life is like at 3:

    Zak Crawley suffers suspected broken wrist after slipping in Chennai nets
    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/india-vs-england-2020-21-zak-crawley-suffers-suspected-broken-wrist-after-slipping-in-chennai-nets-1249974

    They would surely put Lawrence in at 3. He's not as good as Crawley but there is the minor compensation that he's not a bad part-time spinner should the need arise.
    More likely Stokes or Ali.
    That would suggest playing an extra bowler, which might not be a bad idea - Anderson as well Broad instead of just one of them. I pretty much had the side down as:
    Sibley, Burns, Crawley, Root, Stokes, Pope, Buttler, Moen Ali, Archer, Leach, and Anderson OR Broad.

    Lawrence for Crawley keeps the same balance if the latter is injured.

    Btw, the weather is set fair and apparently the pitch is likely to be quite lively for the sub-continent, so the usual PB mantra of laying the draw should work,
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Why is Alex Salmond polling so badly, he was the victim of the most political motivated kangaroo court since Jesus Christ was tried before the Sanhedrin.

    I think what he admitted to may just have done a teensy bit of damage.

    He reminded me of Alan Clarke’s infamous defence - ‘how do you know if a pass is unwelcome until you make it?’
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,301
    edited February 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Endillion said:

    First?

    Edit: Apparently so.

    My goodness. The Scottish elections are still three months away? I'm not sure how much more not caring at all I can take.

    I plan to do at least one Scotland thread every Sunday between now and election day.

    I will not mention my brilliant record in Scotland.

    Winning on the SNP winning a majority in 2011.

    Accurately predicting No would win the Indyref.

    Following Alastair's magnificent tips on the SNP landslide in the 2015 GE.

    Winning at 10/1 and 8/1 on election day the SNP wouldn't win a majority in 2016.

    My brilliant tip of 20/1 on the Tories to win more than 9.5 seats in Scotland at GE2017.

    #LegendaryModesty
    If you could only tell good whisky from bad,* you would be our leading Scotch expert.

    *Which I am assuming, as a good Muslim you can’t.
    I once drank non alcoholic scotch.

    I wish I could tell you what my half Scottish, whisky loving friend described it as. It can only be really posted after the lagershed.
  • Is this election really going to take place in May?

    Seems distinctly unlikely to me whatever people are saying now.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    It's also striking how much less bad SKS is doing than his party. Underneath the competence of NS is a sack full of fighting ferrets, and this could explode anytime. Underneath SKS, (competent, decent) and even more his Scottish counterparts are groups of second and third rate politicians, without enough talent to be a government.

    At the moment there are two geniuses in the public face of UK politics: Boris and Nicola. Characteristically their first name is enough to identify them. Either could fall at any moment and they are set on absolute collision course. What larks!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    ydoethur said:

    Endillion said:

    First?

    Edit: Apparently so.

    My goodness. The Scottish elections are still three months away? I'm not sure how much more not caring at all I can take.

    I plan to do at least one Scotland thread every Sunday between now and election day.

    I will not mention my brilliant record in Scotland.

    Winning on the SNP winning a majority in 2011.

    Accurately predicting No would win the Indyref.

    Following Alastair's magnificent tips on the SNP landslide in the 2015 GE.

    Winning at 10/1 and 8/1 on election day the SNP wouldn't win a majority in 2016.

    My brilliant tip of 20/1 on the Tories to win more than 9.5 seats in Scotland at GE2017.

    #LegendaryModesty
    If you could only tell good whisky from bad,* you would be our leading Scotch expert.

    *Which I am assuming, as a good Muslim you can’t.
    I once drank non alcoholic scotch.

    I wish I could tell you what my half Scottish, whisky loving friend described it as. It can only be really posted after the lagershed.
    Is it that stuff I said David Perdue looked like he was drinking?

    If so don’t worry, I was quoting Shakespeare.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    edited February 2021

    Endillion said:

    First?

    Edit: Apparently so.

    My goodness. The Scottish elections are still three months away? I'm not sure how much more not caring at all I can take.

    I plan to do at least one Scotland thread every Sunday between now and election day.

    I will not mention my brilliant record in Scotland.

    Winning on the SNP winning a majority in 2011.

    Accurately predicting No would win the Indyref.

    Following Alastair's magnificent tips on the SNP landslide in the 2015 GE.

    Winning at 10/1 and 8/1 on election day the SNP wouldn't win a majority in 2016.

    My brilliant tip of 20/1 on the Tories to win more than 9.5 seats in Scotland at GE2017.

    #LegendaryModesty
    Hope you didn't go all in on Sturgeon* being out by the end of 2020.

    *Sorry, Hanoi Nic.
  • Endillion said:

    First?

    Edit: Apparently so.

    My goodness. The Scottish elections are still three months away? I'm not sure how much more not caring at all I can take.

    I plan to do at least one Scotland thread every Sunday between now and election day.

    I will not mention my brilliant record in Scotland.

    Winning on the SNP winning a majority in 2011.

    Accurately predicting No would win the Indyref.

    Following Alastair's magnificent tips on the SNP landslide in the 2015 GE.

    Winning at 10/1 and 8/1 on election day the SNP wouldn't win a majority in 2016.

    My brilliant tip of 20/1 on the Tories to win more than 9.5 seats in Scotland at GE2017.

    #LegendaryModesty
    Didn't you also tip Robert the Bruce to win at Bannockburn back in the early days of PB when JackW was a nipper and Mike Smithson had hair?
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Endillion said:

    First?

    Edit: Apparently so.

    My goodness. The Scottish elections are still three months away? I'm not sure how much more not caring at all I can take.

    I plan to do at least one Scotland thread every Sunday between now and election day.

    I will not mention my brilliant record in Scotland.

    Winning on the SNP winning a majority in 2011.

    Accurately predicting No would win the Indyref.

    Following Alastair's magnificent tips on the SNP landslide in the 2015 GE.

    Winning at 10/1 and 8/1 on election day the SNP wouldn't win a majority in 2016.

    My brilliant tip of 20/1 on the Tories to win more than 9.5 seats in Scotland at GE2017.

    #LegendaryModesty
    If you could only tell good whisky from bad,* you would be our leading Scotch expert.

    *Which I am assuming, as a good Muslim you can’t.
    I once drank non alcoholic scotch.

    I wish I could tell you what my half Scottish, whisky loving friend described it as. It can only be really posted after the lagershed.
    Is it that stuff I said David Perdue looked like he was drinking?

    If so don’t worry, I was quoting Shakespeare.
    I missed your David Perdue comments.

    My friend said non alcoholic scotch was like performing a certain sex act on your sister. It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just plain wrong.
  • Endillion said:

    First?

    Edit: Apparently so.

    My goodness. The Scottish elections are still three months away? I'm not sure how much more not caring at all I can take.

    I plan to do at least one Scotland thread every Sunday between now and election day.

    I will not mention my brilliant record in Scotland.

    Winning on the SNP winning a majority in 2011.

    Accurately predicting No would win the Indyref.

    Following Alastair's magnificent tips on the SNP landslide in the 2015 GE.

    Winning at 10/1 and 8/1 on election day the SNP wouldn't win a majority in 2016.

    My brilliant tip of 20/1 on the Tories to win more than 9.5 seats in Scotland at GE2017.

    #LegendaryModesty
    Didn't you also tip Robert the Bruce to win at Bannockburn back in the early days of PB when JackW was a nipper and Mike Smithson had hair?
    I also tipped Scotland to lost the Battle of Dollar in 875.

    Hurrah for the Danes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    A wealthy blue-ticked financier, with 250,000 followers, who lives in "London/Paris/NYC", is having an absolutely insane meltdown on Twitter. It started with this tweet about five hours ago


    https://twitter.com/umairh/status/1356978672545259520?s=20
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    edited February 2021
    About 10th.
    (It's a LD Bar Chart)

    I'm still on the previous topic, I'm afraid.

    Do we have murky commercial motives here.

    Is there potential for the AZ model to upend part of the industry, here?

    I don't know big pharma well enough to judge *at all*.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited February 2021

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Endillion said:

    First?

    Edit: Apparently so.

    My goodness. The Scottish elections are still three months away? I'm not sure how much more not caring at all I can take.

    I plan to do at least one Scotland thread every Sunday between now and election day.

    I will not mention my brilliant record in Scotland.

    Winning on the SNP winning a majority in 2011.

    Accurately predicting No would win the Indyref.

    Following Alastair's magnificent tips on the SNP landslide in the 2015 GE.

    Winning at 10/1 and 8/1 on election day the SNP wouldn't win a majority in 2016.

    My brilliant tip of 20/1 on the Tories to win more than 9.5 seats in Scotland at GE2017.

    #LegendaryModesty
    If you could only tell good whisky from bad,* you would be our leading Scotch expert.

    *Which I am assuming, as a good Muslim you can’t.
    I once drank non alcoholic scotch.

    I wish I could tell you what my half Scottish, whisky loving friend described it as. It can only be really posted after the lagershed.
    Is it that stuff I said David Perdue looked like he was drinking?

    If so don’t worry, I was quoting Shakespeare.
    I missed your David Perdue comments.

    My friend said non alcoholic scotch was like performing a certain sex act on your sister. It tastes the same but deep down you know it is just plain wrong.
    Okaaayyy...

    No, that was not what I said about David Perdue, even though he was from Georgia and we all know what they’re like round there.

    I said, thatat the moment Ossoff withered him over his insider trading issues, that he looked like he was being forced to drink neat horse piss.
  • Endillion said:

    First?

    Edit: Apparently so.

    My goodness. The Scottish elections are still three months away? I'm not sure how much more not caring at all I can take.

    I plan to do at least one Scotland thread every Sunday between now and election day.

    I will not mention my brilliant record in Scotland.

    Winning on the SNP winning a majority in 2011.

    Accurately predicting No would win the Indyref.

    Following Alastair's magnificent tips on the SNP landslide in the 2015 GE.

    Winning at 10/1 and 8/1 on election day the SNP wouldn't win a majority in 2016.

    My brilliant tip of 20/1 on the Tories to win more than 9.5 seats in Scotland at GE2017.

    #LegendaryModesty
    Didn't you also tip Robert the Bruce to win at Bannockburn back in the early days of PB when JackW was a nipper and Mike Smithson had hair?
    Now I know that can't be true . . . you're expecting us to believe that Mike Smithson had hair?
  • Endillion said:

    First?

    Edit: Apparently so.

    My goodness. The Scottish elections are still three months away? I'm not sure how much more not caring at all I can take.

    I plan to do at least one Scotland thread every Sunday between now and election day.

    I will not mention my brilliant record in Scotland.

    Winning on the SNP winning a majority in 2011.

    Accurately predicting No would win the Indyref.

    Following Alastair's magnificent tips on the SNP landslide in the 2015 GE.

    Winning at 10/1 and 8/1 on election day the SNP wouldn't win a majority in 2016.

    My brilliant tip of 20/1 on the Tories to win more than 9.5 seats in Scotland at GE2017.

    #LegendaryModesty
    Hope you didn't go all in on Sturgeon* being out by the end of 2020.

    *Sorry, Hanoi Nic.
    Don't think so.

    Actually thinking about it, I think I took a bet on her going in 2020 struck in November/December 2019, was a proxy/hedge if the SNP had a sub optimal GE2019 performance, where I was on the other side of the bet.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    IshmaelZ said:

    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.

    It does sound as if the Salmondite vendetta against Sturgeon isn't winning many hearts.

    Making up, or at least shutting up is the best thing he could do for the cause
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.

    It does sound as if the Salmondite vendetta against Sturgeon isn't winning many hearts.

    Making up, or at least shutting up is the best thing he could do for the cause
    Salmond has dominated Scottish independence politics for thirty years through multiple incarnations including two spells as leader each a decade long. He isn’t very good at ‘shutting up.’
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,708
    Is there some sort of Pravda equivalent in Scotland? I mean I wouldn't exactly expect Salmond to be popular and Sturgeon unpopular but...

    Genuinely curious as to why it is quite like this.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Scott_xP said:
    Paywalled. What did he have a moan about with Mr J, please?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.

    It does sound as if the Salmondite vendetta against Sturgeon isn't winning many hearts.

    Making up, or at least shutting up is the best thing he could do for the cause
    The feud is far too savage for that. Salmond clearly HATES Sturgeon, and, to be fair, if he is right - that his was a staged trial to bring him down - his anger is justified. They not only - allegedly - destroyed his career and rep, they tried to get him sent to jail for a looooong time.

    That's not something you can forgive or forget. Salmond will fight to the end, win or lose
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The only thing that can torpedo Sturgeon is it turns out she personally lied to Parliament or the Scottish Gov fucks up vaccination roll out.

    The Vaccine rollout started well then trailed off badly in comparison to England last month but just when things started to look sticky it seems Scotland has posted a decent (as a proportion of England jabs) 1st and 2nd of February.

    #TheSturge to win a 30 seat majority and immediately declare UDI backed by a rapturous population.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Is there some sort of Pravda equivalent in Scotland? I mean I wouldn't exactly expect Salmond to be popular and Sturgeon unpopular but...

    Genuinely curious as to why it is quite like this.

    Yes, the overwhelmingly Britnat media. Which is part of the reason. Just look at their coverage during (and in one case after) the trial.

    There's the National, but it's always seemed quite on the wokist side anyway.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Is there some sort of Pravda equivalent in Scotland? I mean I wouldn't exactly expect Salmond to be popular and Sturgeon unpopular but...

    Genuinely curious as to why it is quite like this.

    The National? Not that many people read it.

    Business for Scotland? Not sure what its reach is like.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,354
    Scott_xP said:
    Exclusive - except it was reported on here a couple of days back....
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,062
    I would say that the weird UK information space that still thinks that putting out as many single doses as possible is an acceptable risk, even if it did lead to vaccine resistant strains, and that this decision is being taken by Tory politicians against the advice of the science and that is OK. Well, to be polite, that is not the view in the EU. If vaccine resistance happens, the UK will be quarantined way beyond anything we have seen so far. That this risk has been taken so casually is why the the Tories should not be in office.

    On thread, well, I guess I keep a red passport when I renew in 2029. Salmond is a liability of course, and it is not a given that separation happens, especially not with the same economic illiteracy of a "sterling" currency that the SNP seems determined to inflict on us, yet TBH, unless England turns against the Tories, it is hard to see the Union continuing at all.

    The problem is not the powers of Holyrood, it is the powers of Westminster and Whitehall. So, when we start to talk about those problems, then maybe I´ll believe in a common future. The problem is changing London, not Edinburgh.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Paywalled. What did he have a moan about with Mr J, please?
    Sounds like the resigned dude was just not very charming, and, frankly, annoyed a lot of people. Not much else
  • Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Paywalled. What did he have a moan about with Mr J, please?
    Mr Lewis, known in Downing Street as “Sonic”, is said by colleagues to have wanted “a clean slate” and to build a new team. A Vote Leave veteran, he is seen as having strong campaigning credentials although he is not known for any particular expertise in Scottish politics. He threatened to resign over the departure of Mr Johnson’s former senior adviser Dominic Cummings in November, but was persuaded by the prime minister to stay in Number 10.


    “Oliver is good at this stuff — he knows this can’t just be about brute economics,” said one colleague. “It’s about passion, identity and about promoting the idea that you can be proud to be Scottish and British.”

    The future of the UK has become a central challenge for Mr Johnson, after opinion polls have suggested sustained support for Scottish independence. Mr Lewis’s role will be central to Number 10’s efforts to counter the Scottish National Party.

    According to officials with knowledge of the dispute, Mr Graham was unhappy with both his role and Number 10’s strategy for the union. “There was a lack of faith in letting him do what he needed to do. A lot of his efforts were frustrated by other people in the building,” one said.

    One Scottish Tory said: “Luke was the only Scottish person in there, it’s a big shame he’s gone and speaks to their total lack of a strategy on how to deal with the SNP.”

    Mr Graham will now move to Scotland to assist the Scottish Tory party’s campaign for May’s Holyrood elections.

    Another Whitehall official said: “Luke Graham has improved the focus of the government on delivering for Scotland and all parts of the UK and has helped ensure communications focused on demonstrating the practical value of the union to people in all parts of the country.”

    But others in Number 10 put the blame on Mr Graham for his exit. “Luke had gradually pissed off more and more people. He didn’t endear himself to other spads [special advisers], ministers or civil servants. No one was weeping to see him go,” one government official said.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.

    It does sound as if the Salmondite vendetta against Sturgeon isn't winning many hearts.

    Making up, or at least shutting up is the best thing he could do for the cause
    The feud is far too savage for that. Salmond clearly HATES Sturgeon, and, to be fair, if he is right - that his was a staged trial to bring him down - his anger is justified. They not only - allegedly - destroyed his career and rep, they tried to get him sent to jail for a looooong time.

    That's not something you can forgive or forget. Salmond will fight to the end, win or lose
    If he loses the SNP a majority, and hence a further Sindyref, he had better have a tin hat that is turnip proof.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,822
    Cicero said:

    I would say that the weird UK information space that still thinks that putting out as many single doses as possible is an acceptable risk, even if it did lead to vaccine resistant strains, and that this decision is being taken by Tory politicians against the advice of the science and that is OK. Well, to be polite, that is not the view in the EU. If vaccine resistance happens, the UK will be quarantined way beyond anything we have seen so far. That this risk has been taken so casually is why the the Tories should not be in office.

    On thread, well, I guess I keep a red passport when I renew in 2029. Salmond is a liability of course, and it is not a given that separation happens, especially not with the same economic illiteracy of a "sterling" currency that the SNP seems determined to inflict on us, yet TBH, unless England turns against the Tories, it is hard to see the Union continuing at all.

    The problem is not the powers of Holyrood, it is the powers of Westminster and Whitehall. So, when we start to talk about those problems, then maybe I´ll believe in a common future. The problem is changing London, not Edinburgh.

    The decision is being taken against the advice? Citation please.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Paywalled. What did he have a moan about with Mr J, please?
    Sounds like the resigned dude was just not very charming, and, frankly, annoyed a lot of people. Not much else

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Paywalled. What did he have a moan about with Mr J, please?
    Mr Lewis, known in Downing Street as “Sonic”, is said by colleagues to have wanted “a clean slate” and to build a new team. A Vote Leave veteran, he is seen as having strong campaigning credentials although he is not known for any particular expertise in Scottish politics. He threatened to resign over the departure of Mr Johnson’s former senior adviser Dominic Cummings in November, but was persuaded by the prime minister to stay in Number 10.


    “Oliver is good at this stuff — he knows this can’t just be about brute economics,” said one colleague. “It’s about passion, identity and about promoting the idea that you can be proud to be Scottish and British.”

    The future of the UK has become a central challenge for Mr Johnson, after opinion polls have suggested sustained support for Scottish independence. Mr Lewis’s role will be central to Number 10’s efforts to counter the Scottish National Party.

    According to officials with knowledge of the dispute, Mr Graham was unhappy with both his role and Number 10’s strategy for the union. “There was a lack of faith in letting him do what he needed to do. A lot of his efforts were frustrated by other people in the building,” one said.

    One Scottish Tory said: “Luke was the only Scottish person in there, it’s a big shame he’s gone and speaks to their total lack of a strategy on how to deal with the SNP.”

    Mr Graham will now move to Scotland to assist the Scottish Tory party’s campaign for May’s Holyrood elections.

    Another Whitehall official said: “Luke Graham has improved the focus of the government on delivering for Scotland and all parts of the UK and has helped ensure communications focused on demonstrating the practical value of the union to people in all parts of the country.”

    But others in Number 10 put the blame on Mr Graham for his exit. “Luke had gradually pissed off more and more people. He didn’t endear himself to other spads [special advisers], ministers or civil servants. No one was weeping to see him go,” one government official said.

    Ah, thanks both.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,708
    Second thoughts - maybe people are simply inclined to get behind the government in current times. In Scotland that means Sturgeon rather than Johnson.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Is there some sort of Pravda equivalent in Scotland? I mean I wouldn't exactly expect Salmond to be popular and Sturgeon unpopular but...

    Genuinely curious as to why it is quite like this.

    Salmond had a unique skill in making his opponents absolutely loathe him beyond all rationality.

    PB Tories like to talk about Boris Derangement Syndrome but it is nothing compared to the absolute frenzy it would drive political opponents of Salmond.

    So everyone who hated Salmond still hates him. Salmond the absolutely fucked himself when he did the Russia Today talk show.

    A lot of people, like me, who thought him their political hero suddenly realised that actually no - he was a c**t. He was putting himself above Indy. Absolute wanker.

    So that leaves only those people deeply personally comitted to him. And that's not many people.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177
    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    Speaking of cricket, Ollie Pope may be about to find out what life is like at 3:

    Zak Crawley suffers suspected broken wrist after slipping in Chennai nets
    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/india-vs-england-2020-21-zak-crawley-suffers-suspected-broken-wrist-after-slipping-in-chennai-nets-1249974

    They would surely put Lawrence in at 3. He's not as good as Crawley but there is the minor compensation that he's not a bad part-time spinner should the need arise.
    More likely Stokes or Ali.
    Dear god, not Ali. At best an all rounder. Love the guy, but please not at three...
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Scott_xP said:
    I see the special chips in the vaccine are having their intended effect :smile:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.

    It does sound as if the Salmondite vendetta against Sturgeon isn't winning many hearts.

    Making up, or at least shutting up is the best thing he could do for the cause
    The feud is far too savage for that. Salmond clearly HATES Sturgeon, and, to be fair, if he is right - that his was a staged trial to bring him down - his anger is justified. They not only - allegedly - destroyed his career and rep, they tried to get him sent to jail for a looooong time.

    That's not something you can forgive or forget. Salmond will fight to the end, win or lose
    If he loses the SNP a majority, and hence a further Sindyref, he had better have a tin hat that is turnip proof.
    You think Malc will blame Salmond? He’ll blame it on Sturgeon and other traitors.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    Is there some sort of Pravda equivalent in Scotland? I mean I wouldn't exactly expect Salmond to be popular and Sturgeon unpopular but...

    Genuinely curious as to why it is quite like this.

    Try finding general mainstream media references to the Salmond v Sturgeon thing, and you might get part of the answer.

    You get the odd mention on Sky News or the odd BBC half-article, but considering what's being claimed, implied, whatever, it's curiously quiet outside of the indy blogs (and the odd newspaper).

    Which is extremely interesting in itself.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    IDK, I think if the SNP cannot get at least 75% of the vote is it even really a victory?
  • Ch4 news mentioned a Universiry of East Anglia study that says infection rates go up for the first week after vaccination. I haven't seen or heard of this (and seems too soon from the start of our vaccination programme to be able to make such a claim)

    Anybody know anything about this?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.

    It does sound as if the Salmondite vendetta against Sturgeon isn't winning many hearts.

    Making up, or at least shutting up is the best thing he could do for the cause
    Do you not understand he was going to be jailed for sexual assault? That's not 'a feud' like Ted Heath going for a sulk about Thatcher. Thatcher offered Heath Ambassador to the USA. Major made Thatcher a Baroness. Sturgeon offered Salmond full board and lodging at The Scrubs, and the utter and permanent destruction of his reputation and legacy. He is not going to 'shut up' for 'the cause' and it's frankly bizarre that you should wish him to do so.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Second thoughts - maybe people are simply inclined to get behind the government in current times. In Scotland that means Sturgeon rather than Johnson.

    That too. Better record on the pox in the recent wave, too - lower incidence, lower deaths (the PRTories love to cite whole pandemic stats, but the differential is much larger since about Oct/Nov, and it is showing). And much better delivery of pox news from the high heidyins. No shite about hooray have a nice Christmas, but much more reluctance to loosen up, and tighter regs around Xmas.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703

    Endillion said:

    First?

    Edit: Apparently so.

    My goodness. The Scottish elections are still three months away? I'm not sure how much more not caring at all I can take.

    I plan to do at least one Scotland thread every Sunday between now and election day.

    I will not mention my brilliant record in Scotland.

    Winning on the SNP winning a majority in 2011.

    Accurately predicting No would win the Indyref.

    Following Alastair's magnificent tips on the SNP landslide in the 2015 GE.

    Winning at 10/1 and 8/1 on election day the SNP wouldn't win a majority in 2016.

    My brilliant tip of 20/1 on the Tories to win more than 9.5 seats in Scotland at GE2017.

    #LegendaryModesty
    Didn't you also tip Robert the Bruce to win at Bannockburn back in the early days of PB when JackW was a nipper and Mike Smithson had hair?
    Now I know that can't be true . . . you're expecting us to believe that Mike Smithson had hair?
    There was an ancient Election Night Replay over Christmas (early 80s or late 70s) and I am sure there was something.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    Speaking of cricket, Ollie Pope may be about to find out what life is like at 3:

    Zak Crawley suffers suspected broken wrist after slipping in Chennai nets
    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/india-vs-england-2020-21-zak-crawley-suffers-suspected-broken-wrist-after-slipping-in-chennai-nets-1249974

    They would surely put Lawrence in at 3. He's not as good as Crawley but there is the minor compensation that he's not a bad part-time spinner should the need arise.
    More likely Stokes or Ali.
    Dear god, not Ali. At best an all rounder. Love the guy, but please not at three...
    He’s spent most of his career at 3. How often have Lawrence, Pope, Stokes or even Root batted there?

    (Although actually, I agree with you, particularly if the pitch is going to be lively. But he’s wasted at 8.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.

    It does sound as if the Salmondite vendetta against Sturgeon isn't winning many hearts.

    Making up, or at least shutting up is the best thing he could do for the cause
    Do you not understand he was going to be jailed for sexual assault? That's not 'a feud' like Ted Heath going for a sulk about Thatcher. Thatcher offered Heath Ambassador to the USA. Major made Thatcher a Baroness. Sturgeon offered Salmond full board and lodging at The Scrubs, and the utter and permanent destruction of his reputation and legacy. He is not going to 'shut up' for 'the cause' and it's frankly bizarre that you should wish him to do so.
    The Scrubs? You don't live in London do you?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    RobD said:

    Cicero said:

    I would say that the weird UK information space that still thinks that putting out as many single doses as possible is an acceptable risk, even if it did lead to vaccine resistant strains, and that this decision is being taken by Tory politicians against the advice of the science and that is OK. Well, to be polite, that is not the view in the EU. If vaccine resistance happens, the UK will be quarantined way beyond anything we have seen so far. That this risk has been taken so casually is why the the Tories should not be in office.

    On thread, well, I guess I keep a red passport when I renew in 2029. Salmond is a liability of course, and it is not a given that separation happens, especially not with the same economic illiteracy of a "sterling" currency that the SNP seems determined to inflict on us, yet TBH, unless England turns against the Tories, it is hard to see the Union continuing at all.

    The problem is not the powers of Holyrood, it is the powers of Westminster and Whitehall. So, when we start to talk about those problems, then maybe I´ll believe in a common future. The problem is changing London, not Edinburgh.

    The decision is being taken against the advice? Citation please.
    Well, there's the BMJ on Pfizer

    https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/20/revisiting-the-uks-strategy-for-delaying-the-second-dose-of-the-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/


    HMG seems to have got it right, AND followed the science, with one dose ofOxfordAZ - tho the age thing is still a concern, and now Switzerland have said they won't approve it, which adds to the doubts. The Swiss have no agenda against the UK/AZ

    I am much less convinced HMG got it right with Pfizer




  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    RobD said:

    Cicero said:

    I would say that the weird UK information space that still thinks that putting out as many single doses as possible is an acceptable risk, even if it did lead to vaccine resistant strains, and that this decision is being taken by Tory politicians against the advice of the science and that is OK. Well, to be polite, that is not the view in the EU. If vaccine resistance happens, the UK will be quarantined way beyond anything we have seen so far. That this risk has been taken so casually is why the the Tories should not be in office.

    On thread, well, I guess I keep a red passport when I renew in 2029. Salmond is a liability of course, and it is not a given that separation happens, especially not with the same economic illiteracy of a "sterling" currency that the SNP seems determined to inflict on us, yet TBH, unless England turns against the Tories, it is hard to see the Union continuing at all.

    The problem is not the powers of Holyrood, it is the powers of Westminster and Whitehall. So, when we start to talk about those problems, then maybe I´ll believe in a common future. The problem is changing London, not Edinburgh.

    The decision is being taken against the advice? Citation please.
    Quite. Cicero seems to think a that the decision was taken casually, and b that it was led by the interests of Tory politicians, neither of which seems to be the case.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.

    It does sound as if the Salmondite vendetta against Sturgeon isn't winning many hearts.

    Making up, or at least shutting up is the best thing he could do for the cause
    Do you not understand he was going to be jailed for sexual assault? That's not 'a feud' like Ted Heath going for a sulk about Thatcher. Thatcher offered Heath Ambassador to the USA. Major made Thatcher a Baroness. Sturgeon offered Salmond full board and lodging at The Scrubs, and the utter and permanent destruction of his reputation and legacy. He is not going to 'shut up' for 'the cause' and it's frankly bizarre that you should wish him to do so.
    The Scrubs? You don't live in London do you?
    Bar-L to you.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    It will be interesting to see how Labour performs in the LEs.

    It sure will - what's your expectation?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited February 2021

    Ch4 news mentioned a Universiry of East Anglia study that says infection rates go up for the first week after vaccination. I haven't seen or heard of this (and seems too soon from the start of our vaccination programme to be able to make such a claim)

    Anybody know anything about this?

    Wasn’t there a concern people who had been newly vaccinated were a lot less careful about avoiding infection?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    edited February 2021
    Alistair said:

    Is there some sort of Pravda equivalent in Scotland? I mean I wouldn't exactly expect Salmond to be popular and Sturgeon unpopular but...

    Genuinely curious as to why it is quite like this.

    Salmond had a unique skill in making his opponents absolutely loathe him beyond all rationality.

    PB Tories like to talk about Boris Derangement Syndrome but it is nothing compared to the absolute frenzy it would drive political opponents of Salmond.

    So everyone who hated Salmond still hates him. Salmond the absolutely fucked himself when he did the Russia Today talk show.

    A lot of people, like me, who thought him their political hero suddenly realised that actually no - he was a c**t. He was putting himself above Indy. Absolute wanker.

    So that leaves only those people deeply personally comitted to him. And that's not many people.
    It was ironic really because so many Tories were happy to blether away on RT for money, but yes, that was a massive political misstep.

    Edit: it was his own talk show production firm IIRC and RTjust broadcast it as none of the UK media would do it - but the effect was the same.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    edited February 2021
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.

    It does sound as if the Salmondite vendetta against Sturgeon isn't winning many hearts.

    Making up, or at least shutting up is the best thing he could do for the cause
    Do you not understand he was going to be jailed for sexual assault? That's not 'a feud' like Ted Heath going for a sulk about Thatcher. Thatcher offered Heath Ambassador to the USA. Major made Thatcher a Baroness. Sturgeon offered Salmond full board and lodging at The Scrubs, and the utter and permanent destruction of his reputation and legacy. He is not going to 'shut up' for 'the cause' and it's frankly bizarre that you should wish him to do so.
    The Scrubs? You don't live in London do you?
    Bar-L to you.
    Saughton, actually, but yes, that's in the right airt.

    Edit: Or Addiewell. I'm not up to date as a patron of such establishements. ,
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,822
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Cicero said:

    I would say that the weird UK information space that still thinks that putting out as many single doses as possible is an acceptable risk, even if it did lead to vaccine resistant strains, and that this decision is being taken by Tory politicians against the advice of the science and that is OK. Well, to be polite, that is not the view in the EU. If vaccine resistance happens, the UK will be quarantined way beyond anything we have seen so far. That this risk has been taken so casually is why the the Tories should not be in office.

    On thread, well, I guess I keep a red passport when I renew in 2029. Salmond is a liability of course, and it is not a given that separation happens, especially not with the same economic illiteracy of a "sterling" currency that the SNP seems determined to inflict on us, yet TBH, unless England turns against the Tories, it is hard to see the Union continuing at all.

    The problem is not the powers of Holyrood, it is the powers of Westminster and Whitehall. So, when we start to talk about those problems, then maybe I´ll believe in a common future. The problem is changing London, not Edinburgh.

    The decision is being taken against the advice? Citation please.
    Well, there's the BMJ on Pfizer

    https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/20/revisiting-the-uks-strategy-for-delaying-the-second-dose-of-the-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/


    HMG seems to have got it right, AND followed the science, with one dose ofOxfordAZ - tho the age thing is still a concern, and now Switzerland have said they won't approve it, which adds to the doubts. The Swiss have no agenda against the UK/AZ

    I am much less convinced HMG got it right with Pfizer




    But the claim was the decision was made against scientific advice, i.e. by their advisors. There's absolutely no evidence of that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.

    It does sound as if the Salmondite vendetta against Sturgeon isn't winning many hearts.

    Making up, or at least shutting up is the best thing he could do for the cause
    I presume he's confident enough about the cause that he can pursue his vendetta.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    edited February 2021
    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Cicero said:

    I would say that the weird UK information space that still thinks that putting out as many single doses as possible is an acceptable risk, even if it did lead to vaccine resistant strains, and that this decision is being taken by Tory politicians against the advice of the science and that is OK. Well, to be polite, that is not the view in the EU. If vaccine resistance happens, the UK will be quarantined way beyond anything we have seen so far. That this risk has been taken so casually is why the the Tories should not be in office.

    On thread, well, I guess I keep a red passport when I renew in 2029. Salmond is a liability of course, and it is not a given that separation happens, especially not with the same economic illiteracy of a "sterling" currency that the SNP seems determined to inflict on us, yet TBH, unless England turns against the Tories, it is hard to see the Union continuing at all.

    The problem is not the powers of Holyrood, it is the powers of Westminster and Whitehall. So, when we start to talk about those problems, then maybe I´ll believe in a common future. The problem is changing London, not Edinburgh.

    The decision is being taken against the advice? Citation please.
    Well, there's the BMJ on Pfizer

    https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/20/revisiting-the-uks-strategy-for-delaying-the-second-dose-of-the-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/


    HMG seems to have got it right, AND followed the science, with one dose ofOxfordAZ - tho the age thing is still a concern, and now Switzerland have said they won't approve it, which adds to the doubts. The Swiss have no agenda against the UK/AZ

    I am much less convinced HMG got it right with Pfizer




    Yes, but it wasn't against the advice the government received from its scientists. It was a gamble, and not what Pfizer recommended, but the implication of the post was that Tory politicians were being reckless in a gamble - indeed, that was given as a reason why they should not be in office - when in fact it was a calculated risk taken with the advice of its scientific advisers, with pretty clear reasoning behind it. That is not the same thing at all.

    A different government might have made a different call, though I see no evidence of that from what other parties are saying, but there's no reason to believe the advice given to government would have been different.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.

    It does sound as if the Salmondite vendetta against Sturgeon isn't winning many hearts.

    Making up, or at least shutting up is the best thing he could do for the cause
    Do you not understand he was going to be jailed for sexual assault? That's not 'a feud' like Ted Heath going for a sulk about Thatcher. Thatcher offered Heath Ambassador to the USA. Major made Thatcher a Baroness. Sturgeon offered Salmond full board and lodging at The Scrubs, and the utter and permanent destruction of his reputation and legacy. He is not going to 'shut up' for 'the cause' and it's frankly bizarre that you should wish him to do so.
    The Scrubs? You don't live in London do you?
    Bar-L to you.
    Saughton, actually, but yes, that's in the right airt.

    Edit: Or Addiewell. I'm not up to date as a patron of such establishements. ,
    Just maroon him on Bass Rock.

    You know it makes sense...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,919

    Ch4 news mentioned a Universiry of East Anglia study that says infection rates go up for the first week after vaccination. I haven't seen or heard of this (and seems too soon from the start of our vaccination programme to be able to make such a claim)

    Anybody know anything about this?

    In Israel, there has been a real problem of people throwing caution to the wind immediately after vaccination. People would invite all their friends around for dinner to celebrate having the vaccine.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,450
    edited February 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    Ch4 news mentioned a Universiry of East Anglia study that says infection rates go up for the first week after vaccination. I haven't seen or heard of this (and seems too soon from the start of our vaccination programme to be able to make such a claim)

    Anybody know anything about this?

    In Israel, there has been a real problem of people throwing caution to the wind immediately after vaccination. People would invite all their friends around for dinner to celebrate having the vaccine.
    Face palm.....how can you not realize it isn't instant invincibility shield?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.

    It does sound as if the Salmondite vendetta against Sturgeon isn't winning many hearts.

    Making up, or at least shutting up is the best thing he could do for the cause
    Do you not understand he was going to be jailed for sexual assault? That's not 'a feud' like Ted Heath going for a sulk about Thatcher. Thatcher offered Heath Ambassador to the USA. Major made Thatcher a Baroness. Sturgeon offered Salmond full board and lodging at The Scrubs, and the utter and permanent destruction of his reputation and legacy. He is not going to 'shut up' for 'the cause' and it's frankly bizarre that you should wish him to do so.
    The Scrubs? You don't live in London do you?
    Bar-L to you.
    Saughton, actually, but yes, that's in the right airt.

    Edit: Or Addiewell. I'm not up to date as a patron of such establishements. ,
    Just maroon him on Bass Rock.

    You know it makes sense...
    Hmm. It was the upright and strict ministers of the faith who where imprisoned (not 'marooned') on the Bass. Vide the novel by James Robertson.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    ydoethur said:

    Ch4 news mentioned a Universiry of East Anglia study that says infection rates go up for the first week after vaccination. I haven't seen or heard of this (and seems too soon from the start of our vaccination programme to be able to make such a claim)

    Anybody know anything about this?

    Wasn’t there a concern people who had been newly vaccinated were a lot less careful about avoiding infection?
    If infections go up in the first week, that is too soon.

    I know of one fellow who caught it in the vaccine queue. He had completely isolated both before and after, and his wife was housebound.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Cicero said:

    I would say that the weird UK information space that still thinks that putting out as many single doses as possible is an acceptable risk, even if it did lead to vaccine resistant strains.

    Covid festering away alone has proved quite capable of making new strains - it's not clear to me why you think the having one person fully vaccinated and one not at all is any safer than having two 'first dosed'. To me it seems every bit as risky mutation-wise.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.

    It does sound as if the Salmondite vendetta against Sturgeon isn't winning many hearts.

    Making up, or at least shutting up is the best thing he could do for the cause
    Do you not understand he was going to be jailed for sexual assault? That's not 'a feud' like Ted Heath going for a sulk about Thatcher. Thatcher offered Heath Ambassador to the USA. Major made Thatcher a Baroness. Sturgeon offered Salmond full board and lodging at The Scrubs, and the utter and permanent destruction of his reputation and legacy. He is not going to 'shut up' for 'the cause' and it's frankly bizarre that you should wish him to do so.
    The Scrubs? You don't live in London do you?
    Bar-L to you.
    Saughton, actually, but yes, that's in the right airt.

    Edit: Or Addiewell. I'm not up to date as a patron of such establishements. ,
    Just maroon him on Bass Rock.

    You know it makes sense...
    Hmm. It was the upright and strict ministers of the faith who where imprisoned (not 'marooned') on the Bass. Vide the novel by James Robertson.
    Well, yes, but that was in the days when there was a castle and small community there. Now it’s uninhabited so ‘marooned’ works.

    And being in the presence of such exalted martyrs might cause him to reflect on his sins.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Cicero said:

    I would say that the weird UK information space that still thinks that putting out as many single doses as possible is an acceptable risk, even if it did lead to vaccine resistant strains, and that this decision is being taken by Tory politicians against the advice of the science and that is OK. Well, to be polite, that is not the view in the EU. If vaccine resistance happens, the UK will be quarantined way beyond anything we have seen so far. That this risk has been taken so casually is why the the Tories should not be in office.

    On thread, well, I guess I keep a red passport when I renew in 2029. Salmond is a liability of course, and it is not a given that separation happens, especially not with the same economic illiteracy of a "sterling" currency that the SNP seems determined to inflict on us, yet TBH, unless England turns against the Tories, it is hard to see the Union continuing at all.

    The problem is not the powers of Holyrood, it is the powers of Westminster and Whitehall. So, when we start to talk about those problems, then maybe I´ll believe in a common future. The problem is changing London, not Edinburgh.

    The decision is being taken against the advice? Citation please.
    Well, there's the BMJ on Pfizer

    https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/20/revisiting-the-uks-strategy-for-delaying-the-second-dose-of-the-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/


    HMG seems to have got it right, AND followed the science, with one dose ofOxfordAZ - tho the age thing is still a concern, and now Switzerland have said they won't approve it, which adds to the doubts. The Swiss have no agenda against the UK/AZ

    I am much less convinced HMG got it right with Pfizer




    Yes, but it wasn't against the advice the government received from its scientists. It was a gamble, and not what Pfizer recommended, but the implication of the post was that Tory politicians were being reckless in a gamble - indeed, that was given as a reason why they should not be in office - when in fact it was a calculated risk taken with the advice of its scientific advisers, with pretty clear reasoning behind it. That is not the same thing at all.

    A different government might have made a different call, though I see no evidence of that from what other parties are saying, but there's no reason to believe the advice given to government would have been different.
    I agree. I'm just saying there was plenty of expert science on both sides of the argument - about delaying the 2nd dose. The government took a calculated risk in the middle of a grave crisis, and went for one dose and a delay.

    We shall soon see if that risk has paid off as well as their vaccine procurement.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.

    It does sound as if the Salmondite vendetta against Sturgeon isn't winning many hearts.

    Making up, or at least shutting up is the best thing he could do for the cause
    I presume he's confident enough about the cause that he can pursue his vendetta.
    He seems to have only one cause now, to bring down his nemesis.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    edited February 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    Ch4 news mentioned a Universiry of East Anglia study that says infection rates go up for the first week after vaccination. I haven't seen or heard of this (and seems too soon from the start of our vaccination programme to be able to make such a claim)

    Anybody know anything about this?

    In Israel, there has been a real problem of people throwing caution to the wind immediately after vaccination. People would invite all their friends around for dinner to celebrate having the vaccine.
    Israel also has a MAJOR problem with Ultra-Orthodox Jews who simply refuse to obey any lockdown rules. That's about 12% of the Israeli population. Equivalent to 7m people here
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    Cicero said:

    I would say that the weird UK information space that still thinks that putting out as many single doses as possible is an acceptable risk, even if it did lead to vaccine resistant strains.

    Covid festering away alone has proved quite capable of making new strains - it's not clear to me why you think the having one person fully vaccinated and one not at all is any safer than having two 'first dosed'. To me it seems every bit as risky mutation-wise.
    I find the resistance on this one rather strange. I thought it sounded like a very bad idea when it was first announced, and as Leon has said clearly there was a risk being taken, but when people lay out the numbers game of increased numbers with partial protection vs smaller numbers fully (as fully as is possible with vaccines) protected, well, it just seemed very straightforward on a public policy basis.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    rcs1000 said:

    Ch4 news mentioned a Universiry of East Anglia study that says infection rates go up for the first week after vaccination. I haven't seen or heard of this (and seems too soon from the start of our vaccination programme to be able to make such a claim)

    Anybody know anything about this?

    In Israel, there has been a real problem of people throwing caution to the wind immediately after vaccination. People would invite all their friends around for dinner to celebrate having the vaccine.
    Face palm.....how can you not realize it isn't instant invincibility shield?
    People hear what they want to hear.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Cicero said:

    I would say that the weird UK information space that still thinks that putting out as many single doses as possible is an acceptable risk, even if it did lead to vaccine resistant strains.

    Covid festering away alone has proved quite capable of making new strains - it's not clear to me why you think the having one person fully vaccinated and one not at all is any safer than having two 'first dosed'. To me it seems every bit as risky mutation-wise.
    The logic is like antibiotics. If you go all out from the start and kill tbe bug, fine. If you don't try at all, the bug can't evolve aghainst the antibiotic or vacciner. If you are only partly protected, the bug has much more chance to evolve resistance, perhaps in more than one step.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Ch4 news mentioned a Universiry of East Anglia study that says infection rates go up for the first week after vaccination. I haven't seen or heard of this (and seems too soon from the start of our vaccination programme to be able to make such a claim)

    Anybody know anything about this?

    In Israel, there has been a real problem of people throwing caution to the wind immediately after vaccination. People would invite all their friends around for dinner to celebrate having the vaccine.
    Face palm.....how can you not realize it isn't instant invincibility shield?
    People hear what they want to hear.
    One argument for the 12 week Pfizer gap is that people will be more likely to continue isolating if they know they are only half done.
  • Be interesting to know what info the UK is giving out. I think my parents got some sort of leaflet, but no idea if it refers to time after jab, they didn't seem especially clued up on how long before any real immunity kicks in.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    Leon said:

    A wealthy blue-ticked financier, with 250,000 followers, who lives in "London/Paris/NYC", is having an absolutely insane meltdown on Twitter. It started with this tweet about five hours ago

    https://twitter.com/umairh/status/1356978672545259520?s=20

    I wouldn't want to dogpile and thus seem to unintentionally to dismiss genuine concerns which still exist in our society and the world, but this first sentence is a doozy.
    https://twitter.com/umairh/status/1357063820439617536
  • Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    RobD said:

    Cicero said:

    I would say that the weird UK information space that still thinks that putting out as many single doses as possible is an acceptable risk, even if it did lead to vaccine resistant strains, and that this decision is being taken by Tory politicians against the advice of the science and that is OK. Well, to be polite, that is not the view in the EU. If vaccine resistance happens, the UK will be quarantined way beyond anything we have seen so far. That this risk has been taken so casually is why the the Tories should not be in office.

    On thread, well, I guess I keep a red passport when I renew in 2029. Salmond is a liability of course, and it is not a given that separation happens, especially not with the same economic illiteracy of a "sterling" currency that the SNP seems determined to inflict on us, yet TBH, unless England turns against the Tories, it is hard to see the Union continuing at all.

    The problem is not the powers of Holyrood, it is the powers of Westminster and Whitehall. So, when we start to talk about those problems, then maybe I´ll believe in a common future. The problem is changing London, not Edinburgh.

    The decision is being taken against the advice? Citation please.
    Well, there's the BMJ on Pfizer

    https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/20/revisiting-the-uks-strategy-for-delaying-the-second-dose-of-the-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/


    HMG seems to have got it right, AND followed the science, with one dose ofOxfordAZ - tho the age thing is still a concern, and now Switzerland have said they won't approve it, which adds to the doubts. The Swiss have no agenda against the UK/AZ

    I am much less convinced HMG got it right with Pfizer




    Yes, but it wasn't against the advice the government received from its scientists. It was a gamble, and not what Pfizer recommended, but the implication of the post was that Tory politicians were being reckless in a gamble - indeed, that was given as a reason why they should not be in office - when in fact it was a calculated risk taken with the advice of its scientific advisers, with pretty clear reasoning behind it. That is not the same thing at all.

    A different government might have made a different call, though I see no evidence of that from what other parties are saying, but there's no reason to believe the advice given to government would have been different.
    I agree. I'm just saying there was plenty of expert science on both sides of the argument - about delaying the 2nd dose. The government took a calculated risk in the middle of a grave crisis, and went for one dose and a delay.

    We shall soon see if that risk has paid off as well as their vaccine procurement.
    Largescale second doses for Pfizer came to an end about 10th January.

    So over three weeks ago.

    If we're going to hear "got infected because didn't receive second Pfizer dose" stories then they're going to happen very soon.

    I'm surprised there haven't been some already.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Ch4 news mentioned a Universiry of East Anglia study that says infection rates go up for the first week after vaccination. I haven't seen or heard of this (and seems too soon from the start of our vaccination programme to be able to make such a claim)

    Anybody know anything about this?

    In Israel, there has been a real problem of people throwing caution to the wind immediately after vaccination. People would invite all their friends around for dinner to celebrate having the vaccine.
    Face palm.....how can you not realize it isn't instant invincibility shield?
    People hear what they want to hear.
    One argument for the 12 week Pfizer gap is that people will be more likely to continue isolating if they know they are only half done.
    I can see this being an issue with the Johnson and Johnson single shot (though I think they are trialling doing 2 for that one too), as even though people are told that AZ and the others need two, if there is a single shot out there some will be determined to be confused.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,585
    edited February 2021

    Be interesting to know what info the UK is giving out. I think my parents got some sort of leaflet, but no idea if it refers to time after jab, they didn't seem especially clued up on how long before any real immunity kicks in.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/951769/PHE_COVID-19_vaccination_guide_what_to_expect_after_your_vaccination_English_v2.pdf

    Ooops. I can see why this might be misleading:

    "Can I go back to normal activities after having my vaccine?
    Yes, you should be able to resume activities that are normal for you as long as you feel well."
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    A wealthy blue-ticked financier, with 250,000 followers, who lives in "London/Paris/NYC", is having an absolutely insane meltdown on Twitter. It started with this tweet about five hours ago

    https://twitter.com/umairh/status/1356978672545259520?s=20

    I wouldn't want to dogpile and thus seem to unintentionally to dismiss genuine concerns which still exist in our society and the world, but this first sentence is a doozy.
    https://twitter.com/umairh/status/1357063820439617536
    He seems guilty. It seems like he's done something really bad and this is some sort of moral equivocation.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677


    The mad Irish Oxford FBPEing academic how now given us a song, and sung it on Twitter, to help everyone "get through" Covid

    https://twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1357050950410772486?s=20


    She has Trumpite levels of self-obsession and narcissism, and a pathological need for attention. It is cringeworthy, and yet compelling.
  • Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Ch4 news mentioned a Universiry of East Anglia study that says infection rates go up for the first week after vaccination. I haven't seen or heard of this (and seems too soon from the start of our vaccination programme to be able to make such a claim)

    Anybody know anything about this?

    In Israel, there has been a real problem of people throwing caution to the wind immediately after vaccination. People would invite all their friends around for dinner to celebrate having the vaccine.
    Face palm.....how can you not realize it isn't instant invincibility shield?
    People hear what they want to hear.
    One argument for the 12 week Pfizer gap is that people will be more likely to continue isolating if they know they are only half done.
    Better that the oldies do that than start demanding to go to restaurants and on holidays.
  • Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Paywalled. What did he have a moan about with Mr J, please?
    Mr Lewis, known in Downing Street as “Sonic”, is said by colleagues to have wanted “a clean slate” and to build a new team. A Vote Leave veteran, he is seen as having strong campaigning credentials although he is not known for any particular expertise in Scottish politics. He threatened to resign over the departure of Mr Johnson’s former senior adviser Dominic Cummings in November, but was persuaded by the prime minister to stay in Number 10.


    “Oliver is good at this stuff — he knows this can’t just be about brute economics,” said one colleague. “It’s about passion, identity and about promoting the idea that you can be proud to be Scottish and British.”

    The future of the UK has become a central challenge for Mr Johnson, after opinion polls have suggested sustained support for Scottish independence. Mr Lewis’s role will be central to Number 10’s efforts to counter the Scottish National Party.

    According to officials with knowledge of the dispute, Mr Graham was unhappy with both his role and Number 10’s strategy for the union. “There was a lack of faith in letting him do what he needed to do. A lot of his efforts were frustrated by other people in the building,” one said.

    One Scottish Tory said: “Luke was the only Scottish person in there, it’s a big shame he’s gone and speaks to their total lack of a strategy on how to deal with the SNP.”

    Mr Graham will now move to Scotland to assist the Scottish Tory party’s campaign for May’s Holyrood elections.

    Another Whitehall official said: “Luke Graham has improved the focus of the government on delivering for Scotland and all parts of the UK and has helped ensure communications focused on demonstrating the practical value of the union to people in all parts of the country.”

    But others in Number 10 put the blame on Mr Graham for his exit. “Luke had gradually pissed off more and more people. He didn’t endear himself to other spads [special advisers], ministers or civil servants. No one was weeping to see him go,” one government official said.

    The problem with this Union unit is TOO MANY BLOODY JOCKS!
  • Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Paywalled. What did he have a moan about with Mr J, please?
    Mr Lewis, known in Downing Street as “Sonic”, is said by colleagues to have wanted “a clean slate” and to build a new team. A Vote Leave veteran, he is seen as having strong campaigning credentials although he is not known for any particular expertise in Scottish politics. He threatened to resign over the departure of Mr Johnson’s former senior adviser Dominic Cummings in November, but was persuaded by the prime minister to stay in Number 10.


    “Oliver is good at this stuff — he knows this can’t just be about brute economics,” said one colleague. “It’s about passion, identity and about promoting the idea that you can be proud to be Scottish and British.”

    The future of the UK has become a central challenge for Mr Johnson, after opinion polls have suggested sustained support for Scottish independence. Mr Lewis’s role will be central to Number 10’s efforts to counter the Scottish National Party.

    According to officials with knowledge of the dispute, Mr Graham was unhappy with both his role and Number 10’s strategy for the union. “There was a lack of faith in letting him do what he needed to do. A lot of his efforts were frustrated by other people in the building,” one said.

    One Scottish Tory said: “Luke was the only Scottish person in there, it’s a big shame he’s gone and speaks to their total lack of a strategy on how to deal with the SNP.”

    Mr Graham will now move to Scotland to assist the Scottish Tory party’s campaign for May’s Holyrood elections.

    Another Whitehall official said: “Luke Graham has improved the focus of the government on delivering for Scotland and all parts of the UK and has helped ensure communications focused on demonstrating the practical value of the union to people in all parts of the country.”

    But others in Number 10 put the blame on Mr Graham for his exit. “Luke had gradually pissed off more and more people. He didn’t endear himself to other spads [special advisers], ministers or civil servants. No one was weeping to see him go,” one government official said.

    The problem with this Union unit is TOO MANY BLOODY JOCKS!
    Its strange how Downing Street is so bothered worrying how to fight for the union given that @HYUFD says that a referendum is simply ruled out until 2050 why would they even be considering this?

    Its almost as if sane people from outside Epping Forest are running the country and know that if the Scots vote for independence then we're not the Chinese or Spanish.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    If site rules permitted posting about Scotland from latitude 50N, I'd say Salmond ranking sub-Johnson is something I would have thought impossible.

    It does sound as if the Salmondite vendetta against Sturgeon isn't winning many hearts.

    Making up, or at least shutting up is the best thing he could do for the cause
    Do you not understand he was going to be jailed for sexual assault? That's not 'a feud' like Ted Heath going for a sulk about Thatcher. Thatcher offered Heath Ambassador to the USA. Major made Thatcher a Baroness. Sturgeon offered Salmond full board and lodging at The Scrubs, and the utter and permanent destruction of his reputation and legacy. He is not going to 'shut up' for 'the cause' and it's frankly bizarre that you should wish him to do so.
    Nippy isn't cruel. She would surely have housed him in Barlinnie.
This discussion has been closed.