NY Times stories about the UK often quote people from the UK. Strangely, these people often speak in American idiom.
Hence the reference to the episode in a film where getting a cultural norm wrong reveals the spies.....
I get it now, but I couldn't see anything particularly un British like in the example quoted. Maybe I speak more american than I think, all that US TV growing up.
Gotten. Not English.
That's actually a bit of myth. 'Gotten' has been rare in English for the last 200 years, but was the normal form for the previous 400. Shakespeare wrote it without hesitation, and it still makes sense today, unless you're a fan of defective paradigms.
So, fantastic point if the quote were alleged to have been made during the Indonesian cholera pandemic of 1820. As things stand a cast iron indicator of a US English speaker.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
Nah. I absolutely love Secret Army, just brilliant. But that doesn't detract from the fact that, for its first few series at least, Allo Allo was just genius, not least because it showed everyone to be flawed irrespective of nationality.
Never really got the Allo Allo thing, but in any case surely it indicates the gap between UK and European experiences of the war. Maybe someone will prove me wrong but I very much doubt the French could make a crude and puerile* farce about the occupation (my view may be coloured by having just watched a not very good but still horrifying documentary on the Das Reich Division's activities in France in the wee small hours this morning).
*I'm a big fan of puerile usually in case anyone thought otherwise.
It is an interesting (or not) diversionary topic the extent to which war comedy was very popular and acceptable 30-40 years ago when there were lots of people around with direct experience and the theoretical potential to take offence as a result, but the same things made now would be lambasted for.. causing offence.
In my experience in life the most difficult people to deal with are those who never change their mind.
Events shift. Facts evolve. So must we.
I certainly hadn’t fully processed just how bad the EU is likely to keep looking from the outside (they might not do anything this egregious too often, but they’ll do other stuff). My slight worry we’d end up rejoining is falling away.
I would have campaigned hard to rejoin. And, personally, I was beginning to look at houses in Scotland for retirement in what I thought would become an EU country.
No more. After the disgraceful behaviour of the EU and, far worse, the manner in which they have crapped all over their own citizens there's no chance I will ever support them again. They have acted like the worst examples of an old centralist Communist dictatorship, even evoking the idea that solidarity comes before production. They have made an appalling mess of the most important job since their inception.
We got out just in time. Now we need to face out and strike trade deals around the world.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I thought Brexit was a disastrous mistake. Now I think it was the right thing to do.
I never liked the undemocratic nature of the EU. But I'd never seen a demonstration of just how dangerous the consequences could be.
How can anyone trust the EU Commission to comply with even the most minimal standards of behaviour after this? Disregard for the well-being of their own people, and contempt for everyone else.
My sentiments exactly.
And to Roger, this isn't about 'being flaky' ffs. This is people's lives we're talking about. It is the biggest crisis since the second world war, without a shadow of doubt, and the EU have flunked it. Since when they have lashed out at the British for getting on with the job of vaccinating their citizens as the EU should have done.
I was a remainer but I will never again support the EU after this. Everything that you thought could be bad about an over-centralised bureaucracy has come to the fore. Hideous red tape that is, literally, going to kill their own people.
As the country with the most deaths in Europe it ill behoves the UK to say 'the EU have flunked it'. What's the debate about if it isn't about saving lives which the the UK government have singularly failed to do
Those praising British vaccine policy are well aware of our failings early on with this pandemic. The NYT piece, like Janet Street-Porter's in yesterday's Mail, acknowledge that. Some of our deaths are undoubtedly also not down to the Gov't but our freedom aspiring recalcitrance and, continued, refusal to wear masks, socially distance and follow rules. But yes we messed it up.
However, as vaccines are the way out of this I strongly suggest you wait for the final tally rather than the one at half-time.
I just find it mind boggling to see otherwise intelligent people answer everything with a chorus of Rule Britannia
Little minds get boggled easily - Ode to Joy is little better. What is your view of Macron's anti-vax comments?
Perhaps he just got bored with the English Exceptionalists and decided to follow the old proverb "Those who the gods wish to destroy they first make mad" and it seems to be working
We seem to be ok with vaccine provision, here in the UK, but have we adequate stocks of paper bags for the PB Euro-hating hyperventilators to breath into?
I voted Remain and live in Spain where vaccinations have paused. I think I'm allowed to vent a little when the authorities I rely on behave badly.
Why not complain to the Spanish rather than venting your Little Englander crap on here when you don't even live in the country.
I do and I complain about the EU as they are in charge. You could try moderating your language your nasty prejudices about where people choose to live show your true colours.
It is your choice to live there, I don't give a rat's arse where you live. I am interested in where I live.
I thought you wanted to live in the EU too? Indeed that's now one of the central arguments of the Scottish 'independence' movement. I suspect you might need an answer on the vaccine issue as if the unionists have any sense they will hammer you on it.
Frank don't be a silly boy. Living in a member country of the EU does not mean you live in a fictional country called the EU. We have plenty of vaccines by the way , we have paid up front for them and have cast iron contracts. Toodlepip.
Thanks to Kate Bingham and the UK government.
I know where I live Max and who the government are, perhaps you should be trying to educate Frank rather than myself. He does not seem to understand that Scotland is in fact still in the UK and has paid upfront for our vaccines via our government using our money.
That's one part of the debt at least that we can put you down for taking on post Independence then?
As long as we get our fair share of all assets we will take on a fair share of the debts. No share of all the assets , infrastructure , buildings , ships , embassies etc that we have paid for then as per the last time rUK will choose to keep its debt.
Do you want your share of buildings as the buildings in Scotland? Or do you want 9% of the buildings in England - and for England to have 90% of the buildings in Scotland?
Philip, as you well know 90% of next to nothing is almost nothing, happy to give you 90% of our meagre fair for 10% of your opulence including the tax havens.
Well I am ok with that if that is what you want.
Though I doubt that the Scottish Government will want to negotiate the rump UK Government owning 90% of Holyrood. If they do then fair enough.
we will turn our 10% of westminster parliament into a theme park and make a fortune.
Isn't that what the SNP MPs already do with their benches in the House of Commons?
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
Nah. I absolutely love Secret Army, just brilliant. But that doesn't detract from the fact that, for its first few series at least, Allo Allo was just genius, not least because it showed everyone to be flawed irrespective of nationality.
Never really got the Allo Allo thing, but in any case surely it indicates the gap between UK and European experiences of the war. Maybe someone will prove me wrong but I very much doubt the French could make a crude and puerile* farce about the occupation (my view may be coloured by having just watched a not very good but still horrifying documentary on the Das Reich Division's activities in France in the wee small hours this morning).
*I'm a big fan of puerile usually in case anyone thought otherwise.
In my experience in life the most difficult people to deal with are those who never change their mind.
Events shift. Facts evolve. So must we.
I certainly hadn’t fully processed just how bad the EU is likely to keep looking from the outside (they might not do anything this egregious too often, but they’ll do other stuff). My slight worry we’d end up rejoining is falling away.
I would have campaigned hard to rejoin. And, personally, I was beginning to look at houses in Scotland for retirement in what I thought would become an EU country.
No more. After the disgraceful behaviour of the EU and, far worse, the manner in which they have crapped all over their own citizens there's no chance I will ever support them again. They have acted like the worst examples of an old centralist Communist dictatorship, even evoking the idea that solidarity comes before production. They have made an appalling mess of the most important job since their inception.
We got out just in time. Now we need to face out and strike trade deals around the world.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I thought Brexit was a disastrous mistake. Now I think it was the right thing to do.
I never liked the undemocratic nature of the EU. But I'd never seen a demonstration of just how dangerous the consequences could be.
How can anyone trust the EU Commission to comply with even the most minimal standards of behaviour after this? Disregard for the well-being of their own people, and contempt for everyone else.
My sentiments exactly.
And to Roger, this isn't about 'being flaky' ffs. This is people's lives we're talking about. It is the biggest crisis since the second world war, without a shadow of doubt, and the EU have flunked it. Since when they have lashed out at the British for getting on with the job of vaccinating their citizens as the EU should have done.
I was a remainer but I will never again support the EU after this. Everything that you thought could be bad about an over-centralised bureaucracy has come to the fore. Hideous red tape that is, literally, going to kill their own people.
As the country with the most deaths in Europe it ill behoves the UK to say 'the EU have flunked it'. What's the debate about if it isn't about saving lives which the the UK government have singularly failed to do
Those praising British vaccine policy are well aware of our failings early on with this pandemic. The NYT piece, like Janet Street-Porter's in yesterday's Mail, acknowledge that. Some of our deaths are undoubtedly also not down to the Gov't but our freedom aspiring recalcitrance and, continued, refusal to wear masks, socially distance and follow rules. But yes we messed it up.
However, as vaccines are the way out of this I strongly suggest you wait for the final tally rather than the one at half-time.
I just find it mind boggling to see otherwise intelligent people answer everything with a chorus of Rule Britannia
Little minds get boggled easily - Ode to Joy is little better. What is your view of Macron's anti-vax comments?
Perhaps he just got bored with the English Exceptionalists and decided to follow the old proverb "Those who the gods wish to destroy they first make mad" and it seems to be working
We seem to be ok with vaccine provision, here in the UK, but have we adequate stocks of paper bags for the PB Euro-hating hyperventilators to breath into?
I voted Remain and live in Spain where vaccinations have paused. I think I'm allowed to vent a little when the authorities I rely on behave badly.
Why not complain to the Spanish rather than venting your Little Englander crap on here when you don't even live in the country.
I do and I complain about the EU as they are in charge. You could try moderating your language your nasty prejudices about where people choose to live show your true colours.
It is your choice to live there, I don't give a rat's arse where you live. I am interested in where I live.
I thought you wanted to live in the EU too? Indeed that's now one of the central arguments of the Scottish 'independence' movement. I suspect you might need an answer on the vaccine issue as if the unionists have any sense they will hammer you on it.
Frank don't be a silly boy. Living in a member country of the EU does not mean you live in a fictional country called the EU. We have plenty of vaccines by the way , we have paid up front for them and have cast iron contracts. Toodlepip.
Thanks to Kate Bingham and the UK government.
I know where I live Max and who the government are, perhaps you should be trying to educate Frank rather than myself. He does not seem to understand that Scotland is in fact still in the UK and has paid upfront for our vaccines via our government using our money.
The Scottish government led vaccine procurement for Scotland?
Rob, don't be silly , you well know the Tories hide everything from the Scottish government and are scared that if they ever included them in anything they would be shown up for the fools they are.
I'll take that as a no.
We would be in far better shape if they had been running the show for sure and much less largesse for the chumocracy.
Well the Scottish government is in charge of the roll out of the vaccine Malcolm and they are bloody slow. They were also in charge of testing where we again lagged behind the rest of the UK substantially.
And so far as I can see the chumocracy has currently provided:
The third highest level of testing per million of any large or medium sized country in the world. The first approved vaccine. A remarkably high strike rate in vaccines that we invested in. Massive domestic production created almost from scratch to protect ourselves from fools such as the EU. The best roll out of vaccines of any large country in the world and better than all except Israel of medium sized countries.
It does rather suggest to me that part of the Scottish problem is that Nicola's chums are useless twats like the last 2 health secretaries.
David, they chose to do the most fragile difficult cases first and then all the health workers. They could have been a bit further ahead if taking the low hanging fruit like England but we see the difference in death rates every day and our ratio is way way below England so I am happy to be a bit slower but prioritise the most vulnerable cases. I have my appointment and so they are doing people in 60's which does not appear to be that slow to me.
I think that that was true initially when there was a greater emphasis on getting to care homes etc which would have reduced the rate of inoculation. I am not so sure that it is true now. My mother in law (84) got hers last week and we seem to have been concentrating on the general older population for a couple of weeks now. And yet still the gap persists. Yesterday England has 437,866 , we have 27515. Its disappointing.
What seems to have happened is that in Scotland we have relied very heavily on the Health Boards whilst in England they have been much more willing to add additional capacity outwith the normal patterns to get this done.
I still think vulnerable first is the way David, save as many as possible rather than trying to get front page headlines to try and deflect from previous horlicks.
The owner of this site described it as a great post so I thought it was worth seeing again.
You did right. Flawed but at the same time articulate and insightful. Ditto their follow up post when they got tumbling with the energetic and diligent Philip Thompson construct. It's certainly a useful counterview to what has been something of an orgy of "We're great, they're shit. Thank fuck we're out!" sentiment. The main point is a good one, I think. There is a disturbing amount of nationalistic propaganda pumped out these "Boris" and "Brexity" days, and there is a disturbingly large and receptive domestic audience for it. I personally don't think it's in the same ballpark as the Trumpian side of America, nevertheless it is something all those who are not sold on National Populism as the way forward should be anxious about.
He lost it when he said that America was merely "wounded" by Trump, but the UK is irretreviably broken. Not somebody who's been paying much attention to the USA is perhaps the charitable explanation.
I did say "flawed" and that is the biggest of them. You know my feelings about Trump and the damage he has done. I yield to nobody on it. Damage not just to America, btw, but globally. I think the Role Model aspect of having such a person in the highest elected office on the planet is not discussed and appreciated as much as it ought to be. His administration's policies were the least toxic thing about Donald Trump. Indeed many can be respectably supported. His legacy is not that. His legacy is his corrupting impact on hearts & minds.
So if you were to objectively examine a list of the words and actions of each side during this past week, which one would look more like Donald Trump to you? Because threatening his neighbours to cover up his own failings, spreading fake news about coronavirus treatments, playing fast and loose with agreements he signed, and generally throwing his toys out of the pram like a sad little baby seems like it would be right up his alley.
Yes. I am disappointed in Manu. Not particularly rooting for his re-election unless it's against Le Pen.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
+1 and it isn't on our 'on demand' package anywhere. I'd love to find out where I could download it to re-watch. Confinement leaves many hours to fill!
Down thread it says that whether you are asked to stay for 15 minutes afterward being vaccinated depends on whether you are receiving Pfizer or AZ. For one you do, for the other you don't. Don't know which.
However my understanding from someone who has been jabbed was that it depended on whether you had someone with you or not. Accompanied, and off you went.
The EU's top negotiator on vaccine contracts, Sandra Gallina, has defended the EU's collective approach on vaccines, arguing that doses collectively purchased will "come first", ahead of those secured under bilateral deals.
During a hearing in the European Parliament's environment and public health committee, Gallina said she was "confused" by recent reports of bilateral deals because the EU's overall strategy forbids member states from negotiating individually.
"I have not seen yet one [bilateral deal], I do not think I will ever. They do not exist based on what I have been told, [but in any case], the quantities [purchased] for Europe come first," Gallina told MEPs on Tuesday (12 January).
"This has been a united effort that has gotten us the doses that as a single country, big as the country can be, would have never received," Gallina warned.
Meanwhile, the commission expects to see faster deliveries of vaccines from April, as already agreed in the existing contracts.
The second quarter "is going to be the quarter with many doses".
Down thread it says that whether you are asked to stay for 15 minutes afterward being vaccinated depends on whether you are receiving Pfizer or AZ. For one you do, for the other you don't. Don't know which.
However my understanding from someone who has been jabbed was that it depended on whether you had someone with you or not. Accompanied, and off you went.
Pfizer is 15 minute wait. Accompanied or not. It's because of the allergic reaction a couple of Swedish healthcare workers had in the first days of giving the jab.
In my experience in life the most difficult people to deal with are those who never change their mind.
Events shift. Facts evolve. So must we.
I certainly hadn’t fully processed just how bad the EU is likely to keep looking from the outside (they might not do anything this egregious too often, but they’ll do other stuff). My slight worry we’d end up rejoining is falling away.
I would have campaigned hard to rejoin. And, personally, I was beginning to look at houses in Scotland for retirement in what I thought would become an EU country.
No more. After the disgraceful behaviour of the EU and, far worse, the manner in which they have crapped all over their own citizens there's no chance I will ever support them again. They have acted like the worst examples of an old centralist Communist dictatorship, even evoking the idea that solidarity comes before production. They have made an appalling mess of the most important job since their inception.
We got out just in time. Now we need to face out and strike trade deals around the world.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I thought Brexit was a disastrous mistake. Now I think it was the right thing to do.
I never liked the undemocratic nature of the EU. But I'd never seen a demonstration of just how dangerous the consequences could be.
How can anyone trust the EU Commission to comply with even the most minimal standards of behaviour after this? Disregard for the well-being of their own people, and contempt for everyone else.
My sentiments exactly.
And to Roger, this isn't about 'being flaky' ffs. This is people's lives we're talking about. It is the biggest crisis since the second world war, without a shadow of doubt, and the EU have flunked it. Since when they have lashed out at the British for getting on with the job of vaccinating their citizens as the EU should have done.
I was a remainer but I will never again support the EU after this. Everything that you thought could be bad about an over-centralised bureaucracy has come to the fore. Hideous red tape that is, literally, going to kill their own people.
As the country with the most deaths in Europe it ill behoves the UK to say 'the EU have flunked it'. What's the debate about if it isn't about saving lives which the the UK government have singularly failed to do
Those praising British vaccine policy are well aware of our failings early on with this pandemic. The NYT piece, like Janet Street-Porter's in yesterday's Mail, acknowledge that. Some of our deaths are undoubtedly also not down to the Gov't but our freedom aspiring recalcitrance and, continued, refusal to wear masks, socially distance and follow rules. But yes we messed it up.
However, as vaccines are the way out of this I strongly suggest you wait for the final tally rather than the one at half-time.
I just find it mind boggling to see otherwise intelligent people answer everything with a chorus of Rule Britannia
Little minds get boggled easily - Ode to Joy is little better. What is your view of Macron's anti-vax comments?
Perhaps he just got bored with the English Exceptionalists and decided to follow the old proverb "Those who the gods wish to destroy they first make mad" and it seems to be working
We seem to be ok with vaccine provision, here in the UK, but have we adequate stocks of paper bags for the PB Euro-hating hyperventilators to breath into?
I voted Remain and live in Spain where vaccinations have paused. I think I'm allowed to vent a little when the authorities I rely on behave badly.
Why not complain to the Spanish rather than venting your Little Englander crap on here when you don't even live in the country.
I do and I complain about the EU as they are in charge. You could try moderating your language your nasty prejudices about where people choose to live show your true colours.
It is your choice to live there, I don't give a rat's arse where you live. I am interested in where I live.
I thought you wanted to live in the EU too? Indeed that's now one of the central arguments of the Scottish 'independence' movement. I suspect you might need an answer on the vaccine issue as if the unionists have any sense they will hammer you on it.
Frank don't be a silly boy. Living in a member country of the EU does not mean you live in a fictional country called the EU. We have plenty of vaccines by the way , we have paid up front for them and have cast iron contracts. Toodlepip.
Thanks to Kate Bingham and the UK government.
I know where I live Max and who the government are, perhaps you should be trying to educate Frank rather than myself. He does not seem to understand that Scotland is in fact still in the UK and has paid upfront for our vaccines via our government using our money.
The Scottish government led vaccine procurement for Scotland?
Rob, don't be silly , you well know the Tories hide everything from the Scottish government and are scared that if they ever included them in anything they would be shown up for the fools they are.
I'll take that as a no.
We would be in far better shape if they had been running the show for sure and much less largesse for the chumocracy.
Well the Scottish government is in charge of the roll out of the vaccine Malcolm and they are bloody slow. They were also in charge of testing where we again lagged behind the rest of the UK substantially.
And so far as I can see the chumocracy has currently provided:
The third highest level of testing per million of any large or medium sized country in the world. The first approved vaccine. A remarkably high strike rate in vaccines that we invested in. Massive domestic production created almost from scratch to protect ourselves from fools such as the EU. The best roll out of vaccines of any large country in the world and better than all except Israel of medium sized countries.
It does rather suggest to me that part of the Scottish problem is that Nicola's chums are useless twats like the last 2 health secretaries.
David, they chose to do the most fragile difficult cases first and then all the health workers. They could have been a bit further ahead if taking the low hanging fruit like England but we see the difference in death rates every day and our ratio is way way below England so I am happy to be a bit slower but prioritise the most vulnerable cases. I have my appointment and so they are doing people in 60's which does not appear to be that slow to me.
I think that that was true initially when there was a greater emphasis on getting to care homes etc which would have reduced the rate of inoculation. I am not so sure that it is true now. My mother in law (84) got hers last week and we seem to have been concentrating on the general older population for a couple of weeks now. And yet still the gap persists. Yesterday England has 437,866 , we have 27515. Its disappointing.
What seems to have happened is that in Scotland we have relied very heavily on the Health Boards whilst in England they have been much more willing to add additional capacity outwith the normal patterns to get this done.
I still think vulnerable first is the way David, save as many as possible rather than trying to get front page headlines to try and deflect from previous horlicks.
No it isn't. You do as many people as possible at the same time. Doses sitting in the fridge means there's people who could potentially end up in hospital. People aged 60 and over all have a non-negligible risk of hospitalisation so the strategy in England, Wales and NI of reaching down the priority list ensures that those people will be partially protected sooner. Just because you use a vaccine dose on someone aged 68 it doesn't mean you're taking it away from someone aged 84, we're not supply limited to that extent.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
Nah. I absolutely love Secret Army, just brilliant. But that doesn't detract from the fact that, for its first few series at least, Allo Allo was just genius, not least because it showed everyone to be flawed irrespective of nationality.
Never really got the Allo Allo thing, but in any case surely it indicates the gap between UK and European experiences of the war. Maybe someone will prove me wrong but I very much doubt the French could make a crude and puerile* farce about the occupation (my view may be coloured by having just watched a not very good but still horrifying documentary on the Das Reich Division's activities in France in the wee small hours this morning).
*I'm a big fan of puerile usually in case anyone thought otherwise.
It is a slight indicator of what France suffered in the war that they lost almost twice as many civilian casualties to *allied* bombing as the UK did to the Germans. No joke.
The owner of this site described it as a great post so I thought it was worth seeing again.
You did right. Flawed but at the same time articulate and insightful. Ditto their follow up post when they got tumbling with the energetic and diligent Philip Thompson construct. It's certainly a useful counterview to what has been something of an orgy of "We're great, they're shit. Thank fuck we're out!" sentiment. The main point is a good one, I think. There is a disturbing amount of nationalistic propaganda pumped out these "Boris" and "Brexity" days, and there is a disturbingly large and receptive domestic audience for it. I personally don't think it's in the same ballpark as the Trumpian side of America, nevertheless it is something all those who are not sold on National Populism as the way forward should be anxious about.
He lost it when he said that America was merely "wounded" by Trump, but the UK is irretreviably broken. Not somebody who's been paying much attention to the USA is perhaps the charitable explanation.
I did say "flawed" and that is the biggest of them. You know my feelings about Trump and the damage he has done. I yield to nobody on it. Damage not just to America, btw, but globally. I think the Role Model aspect of having such a person in the highest elected office on the planet is not discussed and appreciated as much as it ought to be. His administration's policies were the least toxic thing about Donald Trump. Indeed many can be respectably supported. His legacy is not that. His legacy is his corrupting impact on hearts & minds.
So if you were to objectively examine a list of the words and actions of each side during this past week, which one would look more like Donald Trump to you? Because threatening his neighbours to cover up his own failings, spreading fake news about coronavirus treatments, playing fast and loose with agreements he signed, and generally throwing his toys out of the pram like a sad little baby seems like it would be right up his alley.
Yes. I am disappointed in Manu. Not particularly rooting for his re-election unless it's against Le Pen.
In my experience in life the most difficult people to deal with are those who never change their mind.
Events shift. Facts evolve. So must we.
I certainly hadn’t fully processed just how bad the EU is likely to keep looking from the outside (they might not do anything this egregious too often, but they’ll do other stuff). My slight worry we’d end up rejoining is falling away.
I would have campaigned hard to rejoin. And, personally, I was beginning to look at houses in Scotland for retirement in what I thought would become an EU country.
No more. After the disgraceful behaviour of the EU and, far worse, the manner in which they have crapped all over their own citizens there's no chance I will ever support them again. They have acted like the worst examples of an old centralist Communist dictatorship, even evoking the idea that solidarity comes before production. They have made an appalling mess of the most important job since their inception.
We got out just in time. Now we need to face out and strike trade deals around the world.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I thought Brexit was a disastrous mistake. Now I think it was the right thing to do.
I never liked the undemocratic nature of the EU. But I'd never seen a demonstration of just how dangerous the consequences could be.
How can anyone trust the EU Commission to comply with even the most minimal standards of behaviour after this? Disregard for the well-being of their own people, and contempt for everyone else.
My sentiments exactly.
And to Roger, this isn't about 'being flaky' ffs. This is people's lives we're talking about. It is the biggest crisis since the second world war, without a shadow of doubt, and the EU have flunked it. Since when they have lashed out at the British for getting on with the job of vaccinating their citizens as the EU should have done.
I was a remainer but I will never again support the EU after this. Everything that you thought could be bad about an over-centralised bureaucracy has come to the fore. Hideous red tape that is, literally, going to kill their own people.
As the country with the most deaths in Europe it ill behoves the UK to say 'the EU have flunked it'. What's the debate about if it isn't about saving lives which the the UK government have singularly failed to do
Those praising British vaccine policy are well aware of our failings early on with this pandemic. The NYT piece, like Janet Street-Porter's in yesterday's Mail, acknowledge that. Some of our deaths are undoubtedly also not down to the Gov't but our freedom aspiring recalcitrance and, continued, refusal to wear masks, socially distance and follow rules. But yes we messed it up.
However, as vaccines are the way out of this I strongly suggest you wait for the final tally rather than the one at half-time.
I just find it mind boggling to see otherwise intelligent people answer everything with a chorus of Rule Britannia
Little minds get boggled easily - Ode to Joy is little better. What is your view of Macron's anti-vax comments?
Perhaps he just got bored with the English Exceptionalists and decided to follow the old proverb "Those who the gods wish to destroy they first make mad" and it seems to be working
We seem to be ok with vaccine provision, here in the UK, but have we adequate stocks of paper bags for the PB Euro-hating hyperventilators to breath into?
I voted Remain and live in Spain where vaccinations have paused. I think I'm allowed to vent a little when the authorities I rely on behave badly.
Why not complain to the Spanish rather than venting your Little Englander crap on here when you don't even live in the country.
I do and I complain about the EU as they are in charge. You could try moderating your language your nasty prejudices about where people choose to live show your true colours.
It is your choice to live there, I don't give a rat's arse where you live. I am interested in where I live.
I thought you wanted to live in the EU too? Indeed that's now one of the central arguments of the Scottish 'independence' movement. I suspect you might need an answer on the vaccine issue as if the unionists have any sense they will hammer you on it.
Frank don't be a silly boy. Living in a member country of the EU does not mean you live in a fictional country called the EU. We have plenty of vaccines by the way , we have paid up front for them and have cast iron contracts. Toodlepip.
Thanks to Kate Bingham and the UK government.
I know where I live Max and who the government are, perhaps you should be trying to educate Frank rather than myself. He does not seem to understand that Scotland is in fact still in the UK and has paid upfront for our vaccines via our government using our money.
The Scottish government led vaccine procurement for Scotland?
Rob, don't be silly , you well know the Tories hide everything from the Scottish government and are scared that if they ever included them in anything they would be shown up for the fools they are.
I'll take that as a no.
We would be in far better shape if they had been running the show for sure and much less largesse for the chumocracy.
Well the Scottish government is in charge of the roll out of the vaccine Malcolm and they are bloody slow. They were also in charge of testing where we again lagged behind the rest of the UK substantially.
And so far as I can see the chumocracy has currently provided:
The third highest level of testing per million of any large or medium sized country in the world. The first approved vaccine. A remarkably high strike rate in vaccines that we invested in. Massive domestic production created almost from scratch to protect ourselves from fools such as the EU. The best roll out of vaccines of any large country in the world and better than all except Israel of medium sized countries.
It does rather suggest to me that part of the Scottish problem is that Nicola's chums are useless twats like the last 2 health secretaries.
David, they chose to do the most fragile difficult cases first and then all the health workers. They could have been a bit further ahead if taking the low hanging fruit like England but we see the difference in death rates every day and our ratio is way way below England so I am happy to be a bit slower but prioritise the most vulnerable cases. I have my appointment and so they are doing people in 60's which does not appear to be that slow to me.
I think that that was true initially when there was a greater emphasis on getting to care homes etc which would have reduced the rate of inoculation. I am not so sure that it is true now. My mother in law (84) got hers last week and we seem to have been concentrating on the general older population for a couple of weeks now. And yet still the gap persists. Yesterday England has 437,866 , we have 27515. Its disappointing.
What seems to have happened is that in Scotland we have relied very heavily on the Health Boards whilst in England they have been much more willing to add additional capacity outwith the normal patterns to get this done.
I still think vulnerable first is the way David, save as many as possible rather than trying to get front page headlines to try and deflect from previous horlicks.
If Scotland was vaccinating a the same rate as England they would have done 43,000 jabs today, not 28,000 - which probably would have taken us over 500,000
I can't comprehend the Scottish figures.
Either they're throwing a lot of doses in the bin, or they're accumulating a mammoth stockpile.
Neither makes sense.
If Scotland was vaccinating at the same rate as England they would have done 704k by now, not 543k
Usual Scotland BAD from you. Have you ever had anything positive to say about Scotland in your life considering your "claim" you were born there. PS can you show me the death rates per million of Scotland versus England or is that too much for you.
NY Times stories about the UK often quote people from the UK. Strangely, these people often speak in American idiom.
Hence the reference to the episode in a film where getting a cultural norm wrong reveals the spies.....
I get it now, but I couldn't see anything particularly un British like in the example quoted. Maybe I speak more american than I think, all that US TV growing up.
Gotten. Not English.
That's actually a bit of myth. 'Gotten' has been rare in English for the last 200 years, but was the normal form for at least the previous 400. Shakespeare wrote it without hesitation, and it still makes sense today, unless you're a fan of defective paradigms.
We don't speak how we did 200 to 600 years ago.
And an Englishman did not say "the one thing we've gotten right"
Oh, I'm sure the quote is invented, though at least as much because I'd hope we wouldn't take self-deprecation quite that far in front of the Yanks. My only point is that 'gotten' is indeed English English, which ironically was preserved in US English and is now being reintroduced to its source, especially amongst younger generations more deeply influenced by US cultural products. A bit like an endangered species that only survived by migrating far away and then gradually returns to its natural habitat.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
+1 and it isn't on our 'on demand' package anywhere. I'd love to find out where I could download it to re-watch. Confinement leaves many hours to fill!
If Scotland was vaccinating a the same rate as England they would have done 43,000 jabs today, not 28,000 - which probably would have taken us over 500,000
I can't comprehend the Scottish figures.
Either they're throwing a lot of doses in the bin, or they're accumulating a mammoth stockpile.
Neither makes sense.
If Scotland was vaccinating at the same rate as England they would have done 704k by now, not 543k
Usual Scotland BAD from you. Have you ever had anything positive to say about Scotland in your life considering your "claim" you were born there.
So you're happy the Scottish government is the slowest rolling out vaccination in the UK?
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
Nah. I absolutely love Secret Army, just brilliant. But that doesn't detract from the fact that, for its first few series at least, Allo Allo was just genius, not least because it showed everyone to be flawed irrespective of nationality.
Never really got the Allo Allo thing, but in any case surely it indicates the gap between UK and European experiences of the war. Maybe someone will prove me wrong but I very much doubt the French could make a crude and puerile* farce about the occupation (my view may be coloured by having just watched a not very good but still horrifying documentary on the Das Reich Division's activities in France in the wee small hours this morning).
*I'm a big fan of puerile usually in case anyone thought otherwise.
It is a slight indicator of what France suffered in the war that they lost almost twice as many civilian casualties to *allied* bombing as the UK did to the Germans. No joke.
Because Vichy France was on the side of the Germans, not the Allies. The Allies were bombing enemy positions.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
Nah. I absolutely love Secret Army, just brilliant. But that doesn't detract from the fact that, for its first few series at least, Allo Allo was just genius, not least because it showed everyone to be flawed irrespective of nationality.
Never really got the Allo Allo thing, but in any case surely it indicates the gap between UK and European experiences of the war. Maybe someone will prove me wrong but I very much doubt the French could make a crude and puerile* farce about the occupation (my view may be coloured by having just watched a not very good but still horrifying documentary on the Das Reich Division's activities in France in the wee small hours this morning).
*I'm a big fan of puerile usually in case anyone thought otherwise.
It is an interesting (or not) diversionary topic the extent to which war comedy was very popular and acceptable 30-40 years ago when there were lots of people around with direct experience and the theoretical potential to take offence as a result, but the same things made now would be lambasted for.. causing offence.
It's possible but generally weren't we just much more insensitive in general then, Love Thy Neighbour etc? In any case the historical and cultural separation remains, I still don't think 40 years ago France would have made a comedy involving the hilarious antics of an SS division in rural France. Aside from worrying about offence, Allo Allo wouldn't get made today because no one would get most of the references (apart from all those Kippery types for whom the war seems to loom large).
EU - "IN ITS VACCINE NEGOTIATIONS, Gallina and her team put great importance on three things: a wide selection of potential vaccines, low prices for each jab, and that drugmakers would bear legal responsibility if anything went wrong."
UK - "The government will spend up to £11.7bn ($15.8bn) on securing vaccines for the UK and rolling them out in England, as well as potentially covering drugmakers’ costs if they face legal action."
EU - "They announced plans to offer CureVac up to €80 million in loans to test and manufacture its vaccine in the EU"
A side point on all this. How much does it in part come down to the fact that the UK have its own currency and can borrow what they want to fund things?
You think EU countries don't have currencies then?
They have the Euro and their borrowing costs vary but the rules are strict. As the Scots will find if they ever end up joining the Euro.
If Scotland was vaccinating a the same rate as England they would have done 43,000 jabs today, not 28,000 - which probably would have taken us over 500,000
So not getting the big 500, because Welsh Excel crashed and the Scots still insist on keeping a massive stockpile...
We prefer to lower the death rate to getting newspaper headlines. You got evidence of any stockpile or just your fevered imagination.
I don't think the EU are aware of the Streisand effect....i wonder how many more people are aware of the EU vaccine procurement balls up now because of their actions over the past week.
NY Times stories about the UK often quote people from the UK. Strangely, these people often speak in American idiom.
Hence the reference to the episode in a film where getting a cultural norm wrong reveals the spies.....
I get it now, but I couldn't see anything particularly un British like in the example quoted. Maybe I speak more american than I think, all that US TV growing up.
Gotten. Not English.
That's actually a bit of myth. 'Gotten' has been rare in English for the last 200 years, but was the normal form for at least the previous 400. Shakespeare wrote it without hesitation, and it still makes sense today, unless you're a fan of defective paradigms.
We don't speak how we did 200 to 600 years ago.
And an Englishman did not say "the one thing we've gotten right"
Oh, I'm sure the quote is invented, though at least as much because I'd hope we wouldn't take self-deprecation quite that far in front of the Yanks. My only point is that 'gotten' is indeed English English, which ironically was preserved in US English and is now being reintroduced to its source, especially amongst younger generations more deeply influenced by US cultural products. A bit like an endangered species that only survived by migrating far away and then gradually returns to its natural habitat.
That's what you would expect though; it's differential survival at least as much as neologism which makes us English different. Dollar is in Shakespeare, dime is Middle English, so is skillet.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
Nah. I absolutely love Secret Army, just brilliant. But that doesn't detract from the fact that, for its first few series at least, Allo Allo was just genius, not least because it showed everyone to be flawed irrespective of nationality.
Never really got the Allo Allo thing, but in any case surely it indicates the gap between UK and European experiences of the war. Maybe someone will prove me wrong but I very much doubt the French could make a crude and puerile* farce about the occupation (my view may be coloured by having just watched a not very good but still horrifying documentary on the Das Reich Division's activities in France in the wee small hours this morning).
*I'm a big fan of puerile usually in case anyone thought otherwise.
It is a slight indicator of what France suffered in the war that they lost almost twice as many civilian casualties to *allied* bombing as the UK did to the Germans. No joke.
Because Vichy France was on the side of the Germans, not the Allies. The Allies were bombing enemy positions.
Vichy France was the southern part, the vast majority of French civilian deaths from Allied bombing was in the occupied zone.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
Nah. I absolutely love Secret Army, just brilliant. But that doesn't detract from the fact that, for its first few series at least, Allo Allo was just genius, not least because it showed everyone to be flawed irrespective of nationality.
Never really got the Allo Allo thing, but in any case surely it indicates the gap between UK and European experiences of the war. Maybe someone will prove me wrong but I very much doubt the French could make a crude and puerile* farce about the occupation (my view may be coloured by having just watched a not very good but still horrifying documentary on the Das Reich Division's activities in France in the wee small hours this morning).
*I'm a big fan of puerile usually in case anyone thought otherwise.
It is an interesting (or not) diversionary topic the extent to which war comedy was very popular and acceptable 30-40 years ago when there were lots of people around with direct experience and the theoretical potential to take offence as a result, but the same things made now would be lambasted for.. causing offence.
I think that is true, but also a hero literature based on resistance figures and eg POWs. UK was not occupied so there is perhaps a different perspective, and perhaps a different type of humour (taking the P - Hitler's Only Got One Ball etc), which I would call British.
I read all kinds of that stuff inherited from an aunt in early teens, everything from SOE to POW to obscure accounts (I think I recall one about CAM ships, which were a really tiny aspect of the Atlantic War), and a few shockers about PoWs in Japanese camps and casual extreme violence.
I think it is important to resist offence being taken over trivia, and that "the Offended" does not get a veto.
If Scotland was vaccinating a the same rate as England they would have done 43,000 jabs today, not 28,000 - which probably would have taken us over 500,000
So not getting the big 500, because Welsh Excel crashed and the Scots still insist on keeping a massive stockpile...
The bigger picture is that things still appear to be going well, Scotland is not a million miles adrift and the gapping will get progressively less important as we all work our way down the JCVI scheme (assuming that it doesn't get significantly worse.)
Whenever today's numbers are published in full the cumulative first dose value should be somewhere in the vicinity of 8.4 million, and (at a guess) we should be looking for somewhere North of 16 million by mid-February (to indicate completion of the first four cohorts, and accounting for the fact that it seems anecdotally that some of the more advanced areas have already started on the fifth cohort.) That would require an average of about 450,000 per day, so I'm not sure we'll quite get there, but hopefully it should only be a near miss.
NY Times stories about the UK often quote people from the UK. Strangely, these people often speak in American idiom.
Hence the reference to the episode in a film where getting a cultural norm wrong reveals the spies.....
I get it now, but I couldn't see anything particularly un British like in the example quoted. Maybe I speak more american than I think, all that US TV growing up.
Please don't ever use gotten. It sounds and looks awful.
I like gotten in certain instances. It just sounds right to my ear sometimes.
For example - I have gotten tired of hearing about how great Boris has been on all things vaccine.
That works. It's better than got.
Conversely - When I gotten back from the shops I was pissed off to realize that I had not gotten the milk.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
Nah. I absolutely love Secret Army, just brilliant. But that doesn't detract from the fact that, for its first few series at least, Allo Allo was just genius, not least because it showed everyone to be flawed irrespective of nationality.
Never really got the Allo Allo thing, but in any case surely it indicates the gap between UK and European experiences of the war. Maybe someone will prove me wrong but I very much doubt the French could make a crude and puerile* farce about the occupation (my view may be coloured by having just watched a not very good but still horrifying documentary on the Das Reich Division's activities in France in the wee small hours this morning).
*I'm a big fan of puerile usually in case anyone thought otherwise.
It is a slight indicator of what France suffered in the war that they lost almost twice as many civilian casualties to *allied* bombing as the UK did to the Germans. No joke.
Because Vichy France was on the side of the Germans, not the Allies. The Allies were bombing enemy positions.
And had an 80 seat majority no doubt. What is your point?
If Scotland was vaccinating a the same rate as England they would have done 43,000 jabs today, not 28,000 - which probably would have taken us over 500,000
So not getting the big 500, because Welsh Excel crashed and the Scots still insist on keeping a massive stockpile...
We prefer to lower the death rate to getting newspaper headlines. You got evidence of any stockpile or just your fevered imagination.
I don't think it's either/or. The vaccine supply is divided up according to population, so there should be plenty to continue going down the priority list, rather than waiting for every last person in the first group to be vaccinated.
The EU's top negotiator on vaccine contracts, Sandra Gallina, has defended the EU's collective approach on vaccines, arguing that doses collectively purchased will "come first", ahead of those secured under bilateral deals.
During a hearing in the European Parliament's environment and public health committee, Gallina said she was "confused" by recent reports of bilateral deals because the EU's overall strategy forbids member states from negotiating individually.
"I have not seen yet one [bilateral deal], I do not think I will ever. They do not exist based on what I have been told, [but in any case], the quantities [purchased] for Europe come first," Gallina told MEPs on Tuesday (12 January).
"This has been a united effort that has gotten us the doses that as a single country, big as the country can be, would have never received," Gallina warned.
Meanwhile, the commission expects to see faster deliveries of vaccines from April, as already agreed in the existing contracts.
The second quarter "is going to be the quarter with many doses".
That's a full 2 months away!
2 month's is bad, but there are some surprising countries set to do far worse according to this map. From The Economist, so maybe not foolproof...
NY Times stories about the UK often quote people from the UK. Strangely, these people often speak in American idiom.
Hence the reference to the episode in a film where getting a cultural norm wrong reveals the spies.....
I get it now, but I couldn't see anything particularly un British like in the example quoted. Maybe I speak more american than I think, all that US TV growing up.
Gotten. Not English.
That's actually a bit of myth. 'Gotten' has been rare in English for the last 200 years, but was the normal form for at least the previous 400. Shakespeare wrote it without hesitation, and it still makes sense today, unless you're a fan of defective paradigms.
We don't speak how we did 200 to 600 years ago.
And an Englishman did not say "the one thing we've gotten right"
Oh, I'm sure the quote is invented, though at least as much because I'd hope we wouldn't take self-deprecation quite that far in front of the Yanks. My only point is that 'gotten' is indeed English English, which ironically was preserved in US English and is now being reintroduced to its source, especially amongst younger generations more deeply influenced by US cultural products. A bit like an endangered species that only survived by migrating far away and then gradually returns to its natural habitat.
If you say 'the one thing we've gotten right' in a rather droning Yorkshire accent, it actually sounds quite natural.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
Nah. I absolutely love Secret Army, just brilliant. But that doesn't detract from the fact that, for its first few series at least, Allo Allo was just genius, not least because it showed everyone to be flawed irrespective of nationality.
Never really got the Allo Allo thing, but in any case surely it indicates the gap between UK and European experiences of the war. Maybe someone will prove me wrong but I very much doubt the French could make a crude and puerile* farce about the occupation (my view may be coloured by having just watched a not very good but still horrifying documentary on the Das Reich Division's activities in France in the wee small hours this morning).
*I'm a big fan of puerile usually in case anyone thought otherwise.
It is a slight indicator of what France suffered in the war that they lost almost twice as many civilian casualties to *allied* bombing as the UK did to the Germans. No joke.
Because Vichy France was on the side of the Germans, not the Allies. The Allies were bombing enemy positions.
And had an 80 seat majority no doubt. What is your point?
I'm trying to figure out what your point was writing *allied* like that.
Would you have expected the Nazis to be bombing land they occupied, controlled and bad their troops in? Or the Allies to do that?
I agree with the emerging consensus that Britain should use the aid budget to get as many jabs into Africa as quickly as possible after we've finished vaccinating. It would be great PR and genuinely the proper and right thing to do.
Down thread it says that whether you are asked to stay for 15 minutes afterward being vaccinated depends on whether you are receiving Pfizer or AZ. For one you do, for the other you don't. Don't know which.
However my understanding from someone who has been jabbed was that it depended on whether you had someone with you or not. Accompanied, and off you went.
My wife and I had our Pfizer vaccinations last Saturday and we were both asked to sit down for 15 minutes
Everyone did to be fair in socially distanced seating
The EU's top negotiator on vaccine contracts, Sandra Gallina, has defended the EU's collective approach on vaccines, arguing that doses collectively purchased will "come first", ahead of those secured under bilateral deals.
During a hearing in the European Parliament's environment and public health committee, Gallina said she was "confused" by recent reports of bilateral deals because the EU's overall strategy forbids member states from negotiating individually.
"I have not seen yet one [bilateral deal], I do not think I will ever. They do not exist based on what I have been told, [but in any case], the quantities [purchased] for Europe come first," Gallina told MEPs on Tuesday (12 January).
"This has been a united effort that has gotten us the doses that as a single country, big as the country can be, would have never received," Gallina warned.
Meanwhile, the commission expects to see faster deliveries of vaccines from April, as already agreed in the existing contracts.
The second quarter "is going to be the quarter with many doses".
That's a full 2 months away!
2 month's is bad, but there are some surprising countries set to do far worse according to this map. From The Economist, so maybe not foolproof...
I hope they are right but I fear they will struggle to reach that in France particularly given that half the population say they won't take the jab. Does anyone know what resistance to vaccination is like in any other countries apart from France and the UK? It is something that might become importance as we get towards the end of the year.
The owner of this site described it as a great post so I thought it was worth seeing again.
You did right. Flawed but at the same time articulate and insightful. Ditto their follow up post when they got tumbling with the energetic and diligent Philip Thompson construct. It's certainly a useful counterview to what has been something of an orgy of "We're great, they're shit. Thank fuck we're out!" sentiment. The main point is a good one, I think. There is a disturbing amount of nationalistic propaganda pumped out these "Boris" and "Brexity" days, and there is a disturbingly large and receptive domestic audience for it. I personally don't think it's in the same ballpark as the Trumpian side of America, nevertheless it is something all those who are not sold on National Populism as the way forward should be anxious about.
He lost it when he said that America was merely "wounded" by Trump, but the UK is irretreviably broken. Not somebody who's been paying much attention to the USA is perhaps the charitable explanation.
I did say "flawed" and that is the biggest of them. You know my feelings about Trump and the damage he has done. I yield to nobody on it. Damage not just to America, btw, but globally. I think the Role Model aspect of having such a person in the highest elected office on the planet is not discussed and appreciated as much as it ought to be. His administration's policies were the least toxic thing about Donald Trump. Indeed many can be respectably supported. His legacy is not that. His legacy is his corrupting impact on hearts & minds.
So if you were to objectively examine a list of the words and actions of each side during this past week, which one would look more like Donald Trump to you? Because threatening his neighbours to cover up his own failings, spreading fake news about coronavirus treatments, playing fast and loose with agreements he signed, and generally throwing his toys out of the pram like a sad little baby seems like it would be right up his alley.
Yes. I am disappointed in Manu. Not particularly rooting for his re-election unless it's against Le Pen.
"Disappointed"?!?!?!
The man's become a fucking embarrassing disgrace.
Yes. That's why I'm disappointed. You should be too.
I agree with the emerging consensus that Britain should use the aid budget to get as many jabs into Africa as quickly as possible after we've finished vaccinating. It would be great PR and genuinely the proper and right thing to do.
Its a no brainer to me and exactly what the Aid budget is there for, not funding dance groups in China.
The EU's top negotiator on vaccine contracts, Sandra Gallina, has defended the EU's collective approach on vaccines, arguing that doses collectively purchased will "come first", ahead of those secured under bilateral deals.
During a hearing in the European Parliament's environment and public health committee, Gallina said she was "confused" by recent reports of bilateral deals because the EU's overall strategy forbids member states from negotiating individually.
"I have not seen yet one [bilateral deal], I do not think I will ever. They do not exist based on what I have been told, [but in any case], the quantities [purchased] for Europe come first," Gallina told MEPs on Tuesday (12 January).
"This has been a united effort that has gotten us the doses that as a single country, big as the country can be, would have never received," Gallina warned.
Meanwhile, the commission expects to see faster deliveries of vaccines from April, as already agreed in the existing contracts.
The second quarter "is going to be the quarter with many doses".
That's a full 2 months away!
2 month's is bad, but there are some surprising countries set to do far worse according to this map. From The Economist, so maybe not foolproof...
Also, why on earth is Norway lagging behind the rest of Europe? They are a small population in one of the richest countries in the world. They have had a very successful control and contain campaign to date with very low infection and death rates, why would they not be one of those at the forefront of getting everyone vaccinated?
1. Fundamentally Macron has failed. Whether he was trying to do the right things or not, or in the right way, on the main metrics, on the economy and Covid, he has failed.
2. One of the features of Macron's failure is that he's failed to stand up ideologically against the fringes of the right. He fawned over Trump. He speaks the words of anti-vaxxers. This has acted to normalize the politics of Le Pen.
3. There's no-one else. Maybe someone will emerge, but I think not. Hollande came to office with the enthusiasm that the centre-left had the answers to French malaise, after the failures of the centre-right. He failed. Macron is the failure of the radical centre. This leaves only the Left vs the Right - and my sense is that, as with Corbyn, the Left in France is still mired in the arguments of the past, and doesn't have a story about the future to tell the voters. And so, Le Pen.
I really hope you're wrong.
But if you're right I'm not sure what would change.
In broad terms it would be like Trumpism, but more so. France would become mired in ever-deepening internal divisions. It would turn away from the Western Alliance in favour of authoritarian dictators. The rules of law, epistemology and decency would be undermined. And any chance of the EU getting its act together would be sunk (though I appreciate you regard that as impossible already).
I agree with a lot of what posters like Casino say about the need for democracies to stand together against China and other authoritarian dictatorships. But I fear that we have to win a struggle internally for democratic fundamentals first.
Biden's victory, while welcome, feels more like a goal against the run of play than a turning of the tide. But maybe I'm feeling unduly pessimistic due to lockdown.
The owner of this site described it as a great post so I thought it was worth seeing again.
You did right. Flawed but at the same time articulate and insightful. Ditto their follow up post when they got tumbling with the energetic and diligent Philip Thompson construct. It's certainly a useful counterview to what has been something of an orgy of "We're great, they're shit. Thank fuck we're out!" sentiment. The main point is a good one, I think. There is a disturbing amount of nationalistic propaganda pumped out these "Boris" and "Brexity" days, and there is a disturbingly large and receptive domestic audience for it. I personally don't think it's in the same ballpark as the Trumpian side of America, nevertheless it is something all those who are not sold on National Populism as the way forward should be anxious about.
He lost it when he said that America was merely "wounded" by Trump, but the UK is irretreviably broken. Not somebody who's been paying much attention to the USA is perhaps the charitable explanation.
I did say "flawed" and that is the biggest of them. You know my feelings about Trump and the damage he has done. I yield to nobody on it. Damage not just to America, btw, but globally. I think the Role Model aspect of having such a person in the highest elected office on the planet is not discussed and appreciated as much as it ought to be. His administration's policies were the least toxic thing about Donald Trump. Indeed many can be respectably supported. His legacy is not that. His legacy is his corrupting impact on hearts & minds.
So if you were to objectively examine a list of the words and actions of each side during this past week, which one would look more like Donald Trump to you? Because threatening his neighbours to cover up his own failings, spreading fake news about coronavirus treatments, playing fast and loose with agreements he signed, and generally throwing his toys out of the pram like a sad little baby seems like it would be right up his alley.
Yes. I am disappointed in Manu. Not particularly rooting for his re-election unless it's against Le Pen.
"Disappointed"?!?!?!
The man's become a fucking embarrassing disgrace.
Yes. That's why I'm disappointed. You should be too.
NY Times stories about the UK often quote people from the UK. Strangely, these people often speak in American idiom.
Hence the reference to the episode in a film where getting a cultural norm wrong reveals the spies.....
I get it now, but I couldn't see anything particularly un British like in the example quoted. Maybe I speak more american than I think, all that US TV growing up.
Gotten. Not English.
That's actually a bit of myth. 'Gotten' has been rare in English for the last 200 years, but was the normal form for at least the previous 400. Shakespeare wrote it without hesitation, and it still makes sense today, unless you're a fan of defective paradigms.
We don't speak how we did 200 to 600 years ago.
And an Englishman did not say "the one thing we've gotten right"
Oh, I'm sure the quote is invented, though at least as much because I'd hope we wouldn't take self-deprecation quite that far in front of the Yanks. My only point is that 'gotten' is indeed English English, which ironically was preserved in US English and is now being reintroduced to its source, especially amongst younger generations more deeply influenced by US cultural products. A bit like an endangered species that only survived by migrating far away and then gradually returns to its natural habitat.
If you say 'the one thing we've gotten right' in a rather droning Yorkshire accent, it actually sounds quite natural.
Yes, that works. And I agree the accent and tone matters.
"The rules also back-date to three months ago, giving Brussels the ability to snoop on past vaccine shipments after Brussels accused AstraZeneca of sending doses meant for Europe to Britain."
What's the betting they find that the UK has already had more than its fair share...by the nature we approved it faster, we will have been getting more deliveries.
If AZ have lied to the EU about deliveries from the EU to UK then the EU would have a justified point?
AZ is a total distraction....we saw that from the contract release yesterday. It is about the UK getting their deliveries of Pfizer vaccine.
It is all a distraction to fill news cycles! All of it.
Erm. Vaccinating 8 million people at approaching 12% of our population when most of the EU is languishing at c. 1-2% is not a distraction nor mere news cycle filling.
It's life and death.
The statistic which leapt out at me is that *globally* only 50m people have been vaccinated - of which the UK is 8m. Everyone has done well to get here - invidious to single out anyone as they all played their part
The EU's top negotiator on vaccine contracts, Sandra Gallina, has defended the EU's collective approach on vaccines, arguing that doses collectively purchased will "come first", ahead of those secured under bilateral deals.
During a hearing in the European Parliament's environment and public health committee, Gallina said she was "confused" by recent reports of bilateral deals because the EU's overall strategy forbids member states from negotiating individually.
"I have not seen yet one [bilateral deal], I do not think I will ever. They do not exist based on what I have been told, [but in any case], the quantities [purchased] for Europe come first," Gallina told MEPs on Tuesday (12 January).
"This has been a united effort that has gotten us the doses that as a single country, big as the country can be, would have never received," Gallina warned.
Meanwhile, the commission expects to see faster deliveries of vaccines from April, as already agreed in the existing contracts.
The second quarter "is going to be the quarter with many doses".
That's a full 2 months away!
2 month's is bad, but there are some surprising countries set to do far worse according to this map. From The Economist, so maybe not foolproof...
Also, why on earth is Norway lagging behind the rest of Europe? They are a small population in one of the richest countries in the world. They have had a very successful control and contain campaign to date with very low infection and death rates, why would they not be one of those at the forefront of getting everyone vaccinated?
They are having to get their supply via Sweden's EU deal.
The owner of this site described it as a great post so I thought it was worth seeing again.
You did right. Flawed but at the same time articulate and insightful. Ditto their follow up post when they got tumbling with the energetic and diligent Philip Thompson construct. It's certainly a useful counterview to what has been something of an orgy of "We're great, they're shit. Thank fuck we're out!" sentiment. The main point is a good one, I think. There is a disturbing amount of nationalistic propaganda pumped out these "Boris" and "Brexity" days, and there is a disturbingly large and receptive domestic audience for it. I personally don't think it's in the same ballpark as the Trumpian side of America, nevertheless it is something all those who are not sold on National Populism as the way forward should be anxious about.
He lost it when he said that America was merely "wounded" by Trump, but the UK is irretreviably broken. Not somebody who's been paying much attention to the USA is perhaps the charitable explanation.
I did say "flawed" and that is the biggest of them. You know my feelings about Trump and the damage he has done. I yield to nobody on it. Damage not just to America, btw, but globally. I think the Role Model aspect of having such a person in the highest elected office on the planet is not discussed and appreciated as much as it ought to be. His administration's policies were the least toxic thing about Donald Trump. Indeed many can be respectably supported. His legacy is not that. His legacy is his corrupting impact on hearts & minds.
So if you were to objectively examine a list of the words and actions of each side during this past week, which one would look more like Donald Trump to you? Because threatening his neighbours to cover up his own failings, spreading fake news about coronavirus treatments, playing fast and loose with agreements he signed, and generally throwing his toys out of the pram like a sad little baby seems like it would be right up his alley.
Yes. I am disappointed in Manu. Not particularly rooting for his re-election unless it's against Le Pen.
"Disappointed"?!?!?!
The man's become a fucking embarrassing disgrace.
Yes. That's why I'm disappointed. You should be too.
I'm appalled. You should be too.
Would you say you were more appalled by Macron than Trump or about the same? I don't remember you going on a 2 day rampage of dozens & dozens of 'fucking disgrace' tweets over oor Donald, though I may have missed it
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
Nah. I absolutely love Secret Army, just brilliant. But that doesn't detract from the fact that, for its first few series at least, Allo Allo was just genius, not least because it showed everyone to be flawed irrespective of nationality.
Never really got the Allo Allo thing, but in any case surely it indicates the gap between UK and European experiences of the war. Maybe someone will prove me wrong but I very much doubt the French could make a crude and puerile* farce about the occupation (my view may be coloured by having just watched a not very good but still horrifying documentary on the Das Reich Division's activities in France in the wee small hours this morning).
*I'm a big fan of puerile usually in case anyone thought otherwise.
It is a slight indicator of what France suffered in the war that they lost almost twice as many civilian casualties to *allied* bombing as the UK did to the Germans. No joke.
Because Vichy France was on the side of the Germans, not the Allies. The Allies were bombing enemy positions.
And had an 80 seat majority no doubt. What is your point?
I'm trying to figure out what your point was writing *allied* like that.
Would you have expected the Nazis to be bombing land they occupied, controlled and bad their troops in? Or the Allies to do that?
No, the point was that if you are occupied you get it (different flavours of it) from both sides. Bombing is either intentionally or collaterally an anti-civilian thing anyway, and if the topic of discussion is how much France suffered in the war it's not that important who dropped the bombs, is it?
"The rules also back-date to three months ago, giving Brussels the ability to snoop on past vaccine shipments after Brussels accused AstraZeneca of sending doses meant for Europe to Britain."
What's the betting they find that the UK has already had more than its fair share...by the nature we approved it faster, we will have been getting more deliveries.
If AZ have lied to the EU about deliveries from the EU to UK then the EU would have a justified point?
AZ is a total distraction....we saw that from the contract release yesterday. It is about the UK getting their deliveries of Pfizer vaccine.
It is all a distraction to fill news cycles! All of it.
Erm. Vaccinating 8 million people at approaching 12% of our population when most of the EU is languishing at c. 1-2% is not a distraction nor mere news cycle filling.
It's life and death.
The statistic which leapt out at me is that *globally* only 50m people have been vaccinated - of which the UK is 8m. Everyone has done well to get here - invidious to single out anyone as they all played their part
I am surprised how slow China is being. They have 2 vaccines they claim work and huge resources to manufacture and have shown when they need to do millions of tests in a few days they just order all their people to do so, no ifs, no buts.
In my experience in life the most difficult people to deal with are those who never change their mind.
Events shift. Facts evolve. So must we.
I certainly hadn’t fully processed just how bad the EU is likely to keep looking from the outside (they might not do anything this egregious too often, but they’ll do other stuff). My slight worry we’d end up rejoining is falling away.
I would have campaigned hard to rejoin. And, personally, I was beginning to look at houses in Scotland for retirement in what I thought would become an EU country.
No more. After the disgraceful behaviour of the EU and, far worse, the manner in which they have crapped all over their own citizens there's no chance I will ever support them again. They have acted like the worst examples of an old centralist Communist dictatorship, even evoking the idea that solidarity comes before production. They have made an appalling mess of the most important job since their inception.
We got out just in time. Now we need to face out and strike trade deals around the world.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I thought Brexit was a disastrous mistake. Now I think it was the right thing to do.
I never liked the undemocratic nature of the EU. But I'd never seen a demonstration of just how dangerous the consequences could be.
How can anyone trust the EU Commission to comply with even the most minimal standards of behaviour after this? Disregard for the well-being of their own people, and contempt for everyone else.
My sentiments exactly.
And to Roger, this isn't about 'being flaky' ffs. This is people's lives we're talking about. It is the biggest crisis since the second world war, without a shadow of doubt, and the EU have flunked it. Since when they have lashed out at the British for getting on with the job of vaccinating their citizens as the EU should have done.
I was a remainer but I will never again support the EU after this. Everything that you thought could be bad about an over-centralised bureaucracy has come to the fore. Hideous red tape that is, literally, going to kill their own people.
As the country with the most deaths in Europe it ill behoves the UK to say 'the EU have flunked it'. What's the debate about if it isn't about saving lives which the the UK government have singularly failed to do
Those praising British vaccine policy are well aware of our failings early on with this pandemic. The NYT piece, like Janet Street-Porter's in yesterday's Mail, acknowledge that. Some of our deaths are undoubtedly also not down to the Gov't but our freedom aspiring recalcitrance and, continued, refusal to wear masks, socially distance and follow rules. But yes we messed it up.
However, as vaccines are the way out of this I strongly suggest you wait for the final tally rather than the one at half-time.
I just find it mind boggling to see otherwise intelligent people answer everything with a chorus of Rule Britannia
Little minds get boggled easily - Ode to Joy is little better. What is your view of Macron's anti-vax comments?
Perhaps he just got bored with the English Exceptionalists and decided to follow the old proverb "Those who the gods wish to destroy they first make mad" and it seems to be working
We seem to be ok with vaccine provision, here in the UK, but have we adequate stocks of paper bags for the PB Euro-hating hyperventilators to breath into?
I voted Remain and live in Spain where vaccinations have paused. I think I'm allowed to vent a little when the authorities I rely on behave badly.
Why not complain to the Spanish rather than venting your Little Englander crap on here when you don't even live in the country.
I do and I complain about the EU as they are in charge. You could try moderating your language your nasty prejudices about where people choose to live show your true colours.
It is your choice to live there, I don't give a rat's arse where you live. I am interested in where I live.
I thought you wanted to live in the EU too? Indeed that's now one of the central arguments of the Scottish 'independence' movement. I suspect you might need an answer on the vaccine issue as if the unionists have any sense they will hammer you on it.
Frank don't be a silly boy. Living in a member country of the EU does not mean you live in a fictional country called the EU. We have plenty of vaccines by the way , we have paid up front for them and have cast iron contracts. Toodlepip.
Thanks to Kate Bingham and the UK government.
I know where I live Max and who the government are, perhaps you should be trying to educate Frank rather than myself. He does not seem to understand that Scotland is in fact still in the UK and has paid upfront for our vaccines via our government using our money.
The Scottish government led vaccine procurement for Scotland?
Rob, don't be silly , you well know the Tories hide everything from the Scottish government and are scared that if they ever included them in anything they would be shown up for the fools they are.
I'll take that as a no.
We would be in far better shape if they had been running the show for sure and much less largesse for the chumocracy.
Well the Scottish government is in charge of the roll out of the vaccine Malcolm and they are bloody slow. They were also in charge of testing where we again lagged behind the rest of the UK substantially.
And so far as I can see the chumocracy has currently provided:
The third highest level of testing per million of any large or medium sized country in the world. The first approved vaccine. A remarkably high strike rate in vaccines that we invested in. Massive domestic production created almost from scratch to protect ourselves from fools such as the EU. The best roll out of vaccines of any large country in the world and better than all except Israel of medium sized countries.
It does rather suggest to me that part of the Scottish problem is that Nicola's chums are useless twats like the last 2 health secretaries.
David, they chose to do the most fragile difficult cases first and then all the health workers. They could have been a bit further ahead if taking the low hanging fruit like England but we see the difference in death rates every day and our ratio is way way below England so I am happy to be a bit slower but prioritise the most vulnerable cases. I have my appointment and so they are doing people in 60's which does not appear to be that slow to me.
I think that that was true initially when there was a greater emphasis on getting to care homes etc which would have reduced the rate of inoculation. I am not so sure that it is true now. My mother in law (84) got hers last week and we seem to have been concentrating on the general older population for a couple of weeks now. And yet still the gap persists. Yesterday England has 437,866 , we have 27515. Its disappointing.
What seems to have happened is that in Scotland we have relied very heavily on the Health Boards whilst in England they have been much more willing to add additional capacity outwith the normal patterns to get this done.
I still think vulnerable first is the way David, save as many as possible rather than trying to get front page headlines to try and deflect from previous horlicks.
That implies England, Wales and NI aren’t doing “the vulnerable first”. Which they are.
The EU's top negotiator on vaccine contracts, Sandra Gallina, has defended the EU's collective approach on vaccines, arguing that doses collectively purchased will "come first", ahead of those secured under bilateral deals.
During a hearing in the European Parliament's environment and public health committee, Gallina said she was "confused" by recent reports of bilateral deals because the EU's overall strategy forbids member states from negotiating individually.
"I have not seen yet one [bilateral deal], I do not think I will ever. They do not exist based on what I have been told, [but in any case], the quantities [purchased] for Europe come first," Gallina told MEPs on Tuesday (12 January).
"This has been a united effort that has gotten us the doses that as a single country, big as the country can be, would have never received," Gallina warned.
Meanwhile, the commission expects to see faster deliveries of vaccines from April, as already agreed in the existing contracts.
The second quarter "is going to be the quarter with many doses".
That's a full 2 months away!
2 month's is bad, but there are some surprising countries set to do far worse according to this map. From The Economist, so maybe not foolproof...
Doesn't seen massively surprising in most cases. The EU has been slow to accelerate, but has supplies coming and the ability to ramp up quickly when they do have the supplies, not as rich places with massive populations will struggle and poor place are screwed (but fortunately have been hit less hard up until now at least).
Australia, Canada and Norway are surprises though.
The EU's top negotiator on vaccine contracts, Sandra Gallina, has defended the EU's collective approach on vaccines, arguing that doses collectively purchased will "come first", ahead of those secured under bilateral deals.
During a hearing in the European Parliament's environment and public health committee, Gallina said she was "confused" by recent reports of bilateral deals because the EU's overall strategy forbids member states from negotiating individually.
"I have not seen yet one [bilateral deal], I do not think I will ever. They do not exist based on what I have been told, [but in any case], the quantities [purchased] for Europe come first," Gallina told MEPs on Tuesday (12 January).
"This has been a united effort that has gotten us the doses that as a single country, big as the country can be, would have never received," Gallina warned.
Meanwhile, the commission expects to see faster deliveries of vaccines from April, as already agreed in the existing contracts.
The second quarter "is going to be the quarter with many doses".
I think this is what bothers the commission and why we keep getting lectured about Unity and Solidarity™ by MEP, commissioners and such. They still like to think that the UK is beholden to EU rules, so they want that rule about bilateral purchasing deals being superceded by EU deal to apply to UK purchases.
Had we been a member and not been in the scheme how long until a new resolution was passed by QMV that said any COVID vaccine deliveries within the 28 nations should be delivered to the EU and then redistributed proportionally.
There's no way to succeed within the EU, everyone must fail.
The EU's top negotiator on vaccine contracts, Sandra Gallina, has defended the EU's collective approach on vaccines, arguing that doses collectively purchased will "come first", ahead of those secured under bilateral deals.
During a hearing in the European Parliament's environment and public health committee, Gallina said she was "confused" by recent reports of bilateral deals because the EU's overall strategy forbids member states from negotiating individually.
"I have not seen yet one [bilateral deal], I do not think I will ever. They do not exist based on what I have been told, [but in any case], the quantities [purchased] for Europe come first," Gallina told MEPs on Tuesday (12 January).
"This has been a united effort that has gotten us the doses that as a single country, big as the country can be, would have never received," Gallina warned.
Meanwhile, the commission expects to see faster deliveries of vaccines from April, as already agreed in the existing contracts.
The second quarter "is going to be the quarter with many doses".
That's a full 2 months away!
2 month's is bad, but there are some surprising countries set to do far worse according to this map. From The Economist, so maybe not foolproof...
Also, why on earth is Norway lagging behind the rest of Europe? They are a small population in one of the richest countries in the world. They have had a very successful control and contain campaign to date with very low infection and death rates, why would they not be one of those at the forefront of getting everyone vaccinated?
That's one of the ones that looks wrong (it is the Economist, after all!)
The owner of this site described it as a great post so I thought it was worth seeing again.
You did right. Flawed but at the same time articulate and insightful. Ditto their follow up post when they got tumbling with the energetic and diligent Philip Thompson construct. It's certainly a useful counterview to what has been something of an orgy of "We're great, they're shit. Thank fuck we're out!" sentiment. The main point is a good one, I think. There is a disturbing amount of nationalistic propaganda pumped out these "Boris" and "Brexity" days, and there is a disturbingly large and receptive domestic audience for it. I personally don't think it's in the same ballpark as the Trumpian side of America, nevertheless it is something all those who are not sold on National Populism as the way forward should be anxious about.
He lost it when he said that America was merely "wounded" by Trump, but the UK is irretreviably broken. Not somebody who's been paying much attention to the USA is perhaps the charitable explanation.
I did say "flawed" and that is the biggest of them. You know my feelings about Trump and the damage he has done. I yield to nobody on it. Damage not just to America, btw, but globally. I think the Role Model aspect of having such a person in the highest elected office on the planet is not discussed and appreciated as much as it ought to be. His administration's policies were the least toxic thing about Donald Trump. Indeed many can be respectably supported. His legacy is not that. His legacy is his corrupting impact on hearts & minds.
So if you were to objectively examine a list of the words and actions of each side during this past week, which one would look more like Donald Trump to you? Because threatening his neighbours to cover up his own failings, spreading fake news about coronavirus treatments, playing fast and loose with agreements he signed, and generally throwing his toys out of the pram like a sad little baby seems like it would be right up his alley.
Yes. I am disappointed in Manu. Not particularly rooting for his re-election unless it's against Le Pen.
"Disappointed"?!?!?!
The man's become a fucking embarrassing disgrace.
Yes. That's why I'm disappointed. You should be too.
I'm appalled. You should be too.
I am. But it's the disappointment that is more noteworthy. I'm not his biggest fan - Manu - but I did not think he had this crap in his locker.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
Nah. I absolutely love Secret Army, just brilliant. But that doesn't detract from the fact that, for its first few series at least, Allo Allo was just genius, not least because it showed everyone to be flawed irrespective of nationality.
Never really got the Allo Allo thing, but in any case surely it indicates the gap between UK and European experiences of the war. Maybe someone will prove me wrong but I very much doubt the French could make a crude and puerile* farce about the occupation (my view may be coloured by having just watched a not very good but still horrifying documentary on the Das Reich Division's activities in France in the wee small hours this morning).
*I'm a big fan of puerile usually in case anyone thought otherwise.
It is a slight indicator of what France suffered in the war that they lost almost twice as many civilian casualties to *allied* bombing as the UK did to the Germans. No joke.
Because Vichy France was on the side of the Germans, not the Allies. The Allies were bombing enemy positions.
And had an 80 seat majority no doubt. What is your point?
I'm trying to figure out what your point was writing *allied* like that.
Would you have expected the Nazis to be bombing land they occupied, controlled and bad their troops in? Or the Allies to do that?
No, the point was that if you are occupied you get it (different flavours of it) from both sides. Bombing is either intentionally or collaterally an anti-civilian thing anyway, and if the topic of discussion is how much France suffered in the war it's not that important who dropped the bombs, is it?
Sacré bleue, that 1000 pounder hurtling towards me has a Union Jack on it. Merci beaucoup, très reconnaissant Rosbifs!
Non-EU Norway will get access to some of the vaccines obtained by the European Union thanks to Sweden, an EU member that will buy more than it needs and sell them to Norway, right after New Year.
The owner of this site described it as a great post so I thought it was worth seeing again.
You did right. Flawed but at the same time articulate and insightful. Ditto their follow up post when they got tumbling with the energetic and diligent Philip Thompson construct. It's certainly a useful counterview to what has been something of an orgy of "We're great, they're shit. Thank fuck we're out!" sentiment. The main point is a good one, I think. There is a disturbing amount of nationalistic propaganda pumped out these "Boris" and "Brexity" days, and there is a disturbingly large and receptive domestic audience for it. I personally don't think it's in the same ballpark as the Trumpian side of America, nevertheless it is something all those who are not sold on National Populism as the way forward should be anxious about.
He lost it when he said that America was merely "wounded" by Trump, but the UK is irretreviably broken. Not somebody who's been paying much attention to the USA is perhaps the charitable explanation.
I did say "flawed" and that is the biggest of them. You know my feelings about Trump and the damage he has done. I yield to nobody on it. Damage not just to America, btw, but globally. I think the Role Model aspect of having such a person in the highest elected office on the planet is not discussed and appreciated as much as it ought to be. His administration's policies were the least toxic thing about Donald Trump. Indeed many can be respectably supported. His legacy is not that. His legacy is his corrupting impact on hearts & minds.
So if you were to objectively examine a list of the words and actions of each side during this past week, which one would look more like Donald Trump to you? Because threatening his neighbours to cover up his own failings, spreading fake news about coronavirus treatments, playing fast and loose with agreements he signed, and generally throwing his toys out of the pram like a sad little baby seems like it would be right up his alley.
Yes. I am disappointed in Manu. Not particularly rooting for his re-election unless it's against Le Pen.
"Disappointed"?!?!?!
The man's become a fucking embarrassing disgrace.
Yes. That's why I'm disappointed. You should be too.
I'm appalled. You should be too.
Would you say you were more appalled by Macron than Trump or about the same? I don't remember you going on a 2 day rampage of dozens & dozens of 'fucking disgrace' tweets over oor Donald, though I may have missed it
WTFH has Trump got to do with anything?
Macron is still the President of Britain's nearest neighbour. Just yesterday he did a massive, dirty shit right on top of the most important vaccine of the lot, and didn't even bother to wash his disgusting hands afterwards.
Thank you for the interesting Saturday contribution as always, @david_herdson
I see the Macron fan club on here is out in force today.
There's a lot of talk about returning to "normal" but, like it or not, the world has been fundamentally changed by Covid and those trying to consciously or sub consciously turn the clock back to December 2019 are not seeing what is going on.
In the midst of such fundamental social and economic change, it's inevitable politics will change as well.
The "reckoning" for Covid is going to be multi-faceted as the economic impacts manifest and more comes out about the initial and later response of Governments to events. In the case of the UK, it's clear the Government did some things right (the vaccine) and got some things wrong (failing to close borders, test and trace) and there will doubtless be a full independent public enquiry to which, one would hope, all Ministers including the Prime Ministers would be compelled to give evidence.
The same will be true elsewhere - the economic impact of what has happened and the political impact of decisions made and not made, the things Governments got right and the things they got it wrong. Politically, we can argue the response of New Zealand was a big factor in Jacinda Ardern's Labour Party winning a landslide last autumn and the response of the US Government a factor in Trump's defeat last November.
In Europe, it's much less clear cut - Boris Johnson's Government will rightly do well from the vaccine programme but the economic cost of Covid won't be popular and his Government has some awkward questions to answer as I've mentioned above. Macron will be in a similar position and unlike Boris his appointment with the election comes rather sooner.
That said, as vaccination rolls out, there will be a sense of relief and euphoria - I think the "feelgood" mood in Britain will be strong for much of this year and even in those countries currently not as advance din their vaccination rollout as the UK, the vaccines will get where they are needed.
My point is, perversely, the current delay and fracas might not damage Macron too much. Standing up to "les rosbifs" probably plays as well in France as standing up to the French does in the UK and if his vaccination programme gets to his population in the latter part of 2021, the French may still be in a post-vaccine euphoria next spring and that won't do Macron any harm.
I suppose the other possibility is Macron failing to get to the run-off. Could he come third in the first round? Seems implausible - could the centre-right unite behind either Pecresse or Bertrand? If you look back at the figures in early 2017, they aren't too different to now and in the second round Le Pen badly underperformed her polling which showed her in the range 37-41 and she ended on 34%.
Imagine if the French were more pro-vaccination....the yellow vesters would be burning down Paris. I mean a few every cents on petrol and they were out there every weekend for months.
The owner of this site described it as a great post so I thought it was worth seeing again.
You did right. Flawed but at the same time articulate and insightful. Ditto their follow up post when they got tumbling with the energetic and diligent Philip Thompson construct. It's certainly a useful counterview to what has been something of an orgy of "We're great, they're shit. Thank fuck we're out!" sentiment. The main point is a good one, I think. There is a disturbing amount of nationalistic propaganda pumped out these "Boris" and "Brexity" days, and there is a disturbingly large and receptive domestic audience for it. I personally don't think it's in the same ballpark as the Trumpian side of America, nevertheless it is something all those who are not sold on National Populism as the way forward should be anxious about.
He lost it when he said that America was merely "wounded" by Trump, but the UK is irretreviably broken. Not somebody who's been paying much attention to the USA is perhaps the charitable explanation.
I did say "flawed" and that is the biggest of them. You know my feelings about Trump and the damage he has done. I yield to nobody on it. Damage not just to America, btw, but globally. I think the Role Model aspect of having such a person in the highest elected office on the planet is not discussed and appreciated as much as it ought to be. His administration's policies were the least toxic thing about Donald Trump. Indeed many can be respectably supported. His legacy is not that. His legacy is his corrupting impact on hearts & minds.
So if you were to objectively examine a list of the words and actions of each side during this past week, which one would look more like Donald Trump to you? Because threatening his neighbours to cover up his own failings, spreading fake news about coronavirus treatments, playing fast and loose with agreements he signed, and generally throwing his toys out of the pram like a sad little baby seems like it would be right up his alley.
Yes. I am disappointed in Manu. Not particularly rooting for his re-election unless it's against Le Pen.
"Disappointed"?!?!?!
The man's become a fucking embarrassing disgrace.
Yes. That's why I'm disappointed. You should be too.
I'm appalled. You should be too.
Would you say you were more appalled by Macron than Trump or about the same? I don't remember you going on a 2 day rampage of dozens & dozens of 'fucking disgrace' tweets over oor Donald, though I may have missed it
Over the years PB dumped a million tons of ordure all over Trump. It wasn't an expl;sive one off, because Trump was consistently repugnant and outrageous over his entire ghastly presidency
Macron has in the past been a bit annoying and vain, but generally quite competent and sane, Yesterday, however, he suddenly evolved into a psychotic idiot hell-bent on destroying Europe's vaccination drive, and killing loads of his own citizens, while scaring millions more
So yes, the reaction has been more spectacular, because it is so sudden and unexpected. And so very very dangerous
Doesn't seen massively surprising in most cases. The EU has been slow to accelerate, but has supplies coming and the ability to ramp up quickly when they do have the supplies, not as rich places with massive populations will struggle and poor place are screwed (but fortunately have been hit less hard up until now at least).
Australia, Canada and Norway are surprises though.
I may be in a minority on here but my view is once we have adequately vaccinated our population, we should be leading the way in getting the vaccine to the poorest parts of Africa
This is the kind of thing I want our armed forces to be involved with and it would be a superb example of what "Global Britain" is all about.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
Nah. I absolutely love Secret Army, just brilliant. But that doesn't detract from the fact that, for its first few series at least, Allo Allo was just genius, not least because it showed everyone to be flawed irrespective of nationality.
Never really got the Allo Allo thing, but in any case surely it indicates the gap between UK and European experiences of the war. Maybe someone will prove me wrong but I very much doubt the French could make a crude and puerile* farce about the occupation (my view may be coloured by having just watched a not very good but still horrifying documentary on the Das Reich Division's activities in France in the wee small hours this morning).
*I'm a big fan of puerile usually in case anyone thought otherwise.
Whether they could make it or not, the dubbed French version is extremely popular in France, so perhaps they have more of a sense of humour about it than you give them credit for.
Non-EU Norway will get access to some of the vaccines obtained by the European Union thanks to Sweden, an EU member that will buy more than it needs and sell them to Norway, right after New Year.
The owner of this site described it as a great post so I thought it was worth seeing again.
You did right. Flawed but at the same time articulate and insightful. Ditto their follow up post when they got tumbling with the energetic and diligent Philip Thompson construct. It's certainly a useful counterview to what has been something of an orgy of "We're great, they're shit. Thank fuck we're out!" sentiment. The main point is a good one, I think. There is a disturbing amount of nationalistic propaganda pumped out these "Boris" and "Brexity" days, and there is a disturbingly large and receptive domestic audience for it. I personally don't think it's in the same ballpark as the Trumpian side of America, nevertheless it is something all those who are not sold on National Populism as the way forward should be anxious about.
He lost it when he said that America was merely "wounded" by Trump, but the UK is irretreviably broken. Not somebody who's been paying much attention to the USA is perhaps the charitable explanation.
I did say "flawed" and that is the biggest of them. You know my feelings about Trump and the damage he has done. I yield to nobody on it. Damage not just to America, btw, but globally. I think the Role Model aspect of having such a person in the highest elected office on the planet is not discussed and appreciated as much as it ought to be. His administration's policies were the least toxic thing about Donald Trump. Indeed many can be respectably supported. His legacy is not that. His legacy is his corrupting impact on hearts & minds.
So if you were to objectively examine a list of the words and actions of each side during this past week, which one would look more like Donald Trump to you? Because threatening his neighbours to cover up his own failings, spreading fake news about coronavirus treatments, playing fast and loose with agreements he signed, and generally throwing his toys out of the pram like a sad little baby seems like it would be right up his alley.
Yes. I am disappointed in Manu. Not particularly rooting for his re-election unless it's against Le Pen.
"Disappointed"?!?!?!
The man's become a fucking embarrassing disgrace.
Yes. That's why I'm disappointed. You should be too.
I'm appalled. You should be too.
Would you say you were more appalled by Macron than Trump or about the same? I don't remember you going on a 2 day rampage of dozens & dozens of 'fucking disgrace' tweets over oor Donald, though I may have missed it
WTFH has Trump got to do with anything?
Macron is still the President of Britain's nearest neighbour. Just yesterday he did a massive, dirty shit right on top of the most important vaccine of the lot, and didn't even bother to wash his disgusting hands afterwards.
"have made inquiries about setting up branches, depots or warehouses in the Netherlands for “Brexit-related reasons”
I fully expect some enterprising business folk to set up warehousing in places like Calais and offer it as a service for small businesses.
Like Labour Cheese bloke, rather than send individual hampers, he just sends it in bulk to the distribution centre in Calais and the middle man company does the splitting up and sends it onward.
1. Fundamentally Macron has failed. Whether he was trying to do the right things or not, or in the right way, on the main metrics, on the economy and Covid, he has failed.
2. One of the features of Macron's failure is that he's failed to stand up ideologically against the fringes of the right. He fawned over Trump. He speaks the words of anti-vaxxers. This has acted to normalize the politics of Le Pen.
3. There's no-one else. Maybe someone will emerge, but I think not. Hollande came to office with the enthusiasm that the centre-left had the answers to French malaise, after the failures of the centre-right. He failed. Macron is the failure of the radical centre. This leaves only the Left vs the Right - and my sense is that, as with Corbyn, the Left in France is still mired in the arguments of the past, and doesn't have a story about the future to tell the voters. And so, Le Pen.
I really hope you're wrong.
But if you're right I'm not sure what would change.
In broad terms it would be like Trumpism, but more so. France would become mired in ever-deepening internal divisions. It would turn away from the Western Alliance in favour of authoritarian dictators. The rules of law, epistemology and decency would be undermined. And any chance of the EU getting its act together would be sunk (though I appreciate you regard that as impossible already).
I agree with a lot of what posters like Casino say about the need for democracies to stand together against China and other authoritarian dictatorships. But I fear that we have to win a struggle internally for democratic fundamentals first.
Biden's victory, while welcome, feels more like a goal against the run of play than a turning of the tide. But maybe I'm feeling unduly pessimistic due to lockdown.
I agree with all of that. Still not sure what would change though.
Under Macron France has been cosying up to dictators as increasingly is the EU as a whole. While the UK has been calling out China for what they're doing to Hong Kong and the Uighurs, the EU has been signing trade and investment deals with China.
The EU and France aren't a part of the western alliance anymore.
So what difference would Le Pen actually make? Like in Animal Farm we can look from Le Pen to Macron, and Macron to Le Pen, and not see a difference.
Doesn't seen massively surprising in most cases. The EU has been slow to accelerate, but has supplies coming and the ability to ramp up quickly when they do have the supplies, not as rich places with massive populations will struggle and poor place are screwed (but fortunately have been hit less hard up until now at least).
Australia, Canada and Norway are surprises though.
I may be in a minority on here but my view is once we have adequately vaccinated our population, we should be leading the way in getting the vaccine to the poorest parts of Africa
This is the kind of thing I want our armed forces to be involved with and it would be a superb example of what "Global Britain" is all about.
I don't think you are in a minority at all, in fact I think you're in the vast majority - there is just a question over what 'adequately vaccinated' means and therefore when we are in a position to help others.
The owner of this site described it as a great post so I thought it was worth seeing again.
You did right. Flawed but at the same time articulate and insightful. Ditto their follow up post when they got tumbling with the energetic and diligent Philip Thompson construct. It's certainly a useful counterview to what has been something of an orgy of "We're great, they're shit. Thank fuck we're out!" sentiment. The main point is a good one, I think. There is a disturbing amount of nationalistic propaganda pumped out these "Boris" and "Brexity" days, and there is a disturbingly large and receptive domestic audience for it. I personally don't think it's in the same ballpark as the Trumpian side of America, nevertheless it is something all those who are not sold on National Populism as the way forward should be anxious about.
He lost it when he said that America was merely "wounded" by Trump, but the UK is irretreviably broken. Not somebody who's been paying much attention to the USA is perhaps the charitable explanation.
I did say "flawed" and that is the biggest of them. You know my feelings about Trump and the damage he has done. I yield to nobody on it. Damage not just to America, btw, but globally. I think the Role Model aspect of having such a person in the highest elected office on the planet is not discussed and appreciated as much as it ought to be. His administration's policies were the least toxic thing about Donald Trump. Indeed many can be respectably supported. His legacy is not that. His legacy is his corrupting impact on hearts & minds.
So if you were to objectively examine a list of the words and actions of each side during this past week, which one would look more like Donald Trump to you? Because threatening his neighbours to cover up his own failings, spreading fake news about coronavirus treatments, playing fast and loose with agreements he signed, and generally throwing his toys out of the pram like a sad little baby seems like it would be right up his alley.
Yes. I am disappointed in Manu. Not particularly rooting for his re-election unless it's against Le Pen.
"Disappointed"?!?!?!
The man's become a fucking embarrassing disgrace.
Yes. That's why I'm disappointed. You should be too.
I'm appalled. You should be too.
Would you say you were more appalled by Macron than Trump or about the same? I don't remember you going on a 2 day rampage of dozens & dozens of 'fucking disgrace' tweets over oor Donald, though I may have missed it
WTFH has Trump got to do with anything?
Macron is still the President of Britain's nearest neighbour. Just yesterday he did a massive, dirty shit right on top of the most important vaccine of the lot, and didn't even bother to wash his disgusting hands afterwards.
The EU's top negotiator on vaccine contracts, Sandra Gallina, has defended the EU's collective approach on vaccines, arguing that doses collectively purchased will "come first", ahead of those secured under bilateral deals.
During a hearing in the European Parliament's environment and public health committee, Gallina said she was "confused" by recent reports of bilateral deals because the EU's overall strategy forbids member states from negotiating individually.
"I have not seen yet one [bilateral deal], I do not think I will ever. They do not exist based on what I have been told, [but in any case], the quantities [purchased] for Europe come first," Gallina told MEPs on Tuesday (12 January).
"This has been a united effort that has gotten us the doses that as a single country, big as the country can be, would have never received," Gallina warned.
Meanwhile, the commission expects to see faster deliveries of vaccines from April, as already agreed in the existing contracts.
The second quarter "is going to be the quarter with many doses".
That's a full 2 months away!
2 month's is bad, but there are some surprising countries set to do far worse according to this map. From The Economist, so maybe not foolproof...
Also, why on earth is Norway lagging behind the rest of Europe? They are a small population in one of the richest countries in the world. They have had a very successful control and contain campaign to date with very low infection and death rates, why would they not be one of those at the forefront of getting everyone vaccinated?
That's one of the ones that looks wrong (it is the Economist, after all!)
I don't know what crude and arbitrary formula they've deployed, but it looks wrong.
I very much doubt that any of Norway, Canada, Australia, South Korea and New Zealand will take until the middle of next year to get done. Japan and South Africa might make it this year as well. Greenland is a Danish dependency with a very small population so shouldn't have to wait too long. And if you squint at the map you'll notice that Serbia is down for the back end of 2022, when they're currently the seventh best performing country in the world by rate. But hey-ho.
A fairly safe assumption is that the previous Bus Sec thought it a good idea to see if they could remove some rights and that the new one disagrees?
Alternatively - someone in the department thought that during the changeover, it was good idea to try creating policies and then saddling the new minister with them.
No, I'm not joking. There are a number of ministerial memoirs from various political parties, with ministers discovering that policies have been created in their name, publicly, before they had actually entered the building. I remember one, where the permanent secretary tried telling the Minister it was very rude to cancel policies he wasn't responsible for and didn't want.
A friend of mine was fairly senior in MAFF or whatever it is currently called (he has since left). I asked him what his former colleagues thought of Brexit. He said they mostly thought it was great, they can think up policies again rather than negotiate interminably with EU institutions. No more expenses-paid trips to Brussels though.
No more expenses-paid trips to Brussels sounds like a pro not a con!
In my experience in life the most difficult people to deal with are those who never change their mind.
Events shift. Facts evolve. So must we.
I certainly hadn’t fully processed just how bad the EU is likely to keep looking from the outside (they might not do anything this egregious too often, but they’ll do other stuff). My slight worry we’d end up rejoining is falling away.
I would have campaigned hard to rejoin. And, personally, I was beginning to look at houses in Scotland for retirement in what I thought would become an EU country.
No more. After the disgraceful behaviour of the EU and, far worse, the manner in which they have crapped all over their own citizens there's no chance I will ever support them again. They have acted like the worst examples of an old centralist Communist dictatorship, even evoking the idea that solidarity comes before production. They have made an appalling mess of the most important job since their inception.
We got out just in time. Now we need to face out and strike trade deals around the world.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I thought Brexit was a disastrous mistake. Now I think it was the right thing to do.
I never liked the undemocratic nature of the EU. But I'd never seen a demonstration of just how dangerous the consequences could be.
How can anyone trust the EU Commission to comply with even the most minimal standards of behaviour after this? Disregard for the well-being of their own people, and contempt for everyone else.
My sentiments exactly.
And to Roger, this isn't about 'being flaky' ffs. This is people's lives we're talking about. It is the biggest crisis since the second world war, without a shadow of doubt, and the EU have flunked it. Since when they have lashed out at the British for getting on with the job of vaccinating their citizens as the EU should have done.
I was a remainer but I will never again support the EU after this. Everything that you thought could be bad about an over-centralised bureaucracy has come to the fore. Hideous red tape that is, literally, going to kill their own people.
As the country with the most deaths in Europe it ill behoves the UK to say 'the EU have flunked it'. What's the debate about if it isn't about saving lives which the the UK government have singularly failed to do
Well, I have been horrified by the mismanagement of the pandemic by the UK government so far (with the exception of vaccination) and I am equally horrified by the mess the EU have made in providing for their own citizens to be vaccinated. I don't understand why anyone would use either one of those to excuse the other.
Roger , you have been on here long enough to have heard the constant ringing of Jingo bells. Never mind the 6 figures dead , some on here just think Tories are awesome because we have some vaccines. Happy that they kill more than anyone with their incompetence and justify it all because we can jab the few left.
Can I suggest the Government stops sending any more vaccines to Scotland? Just to see what malcy with a propoer grievance looks like.
Of course, they don't need many anyway, because he's told us there's only a few left alive...
Hang on, that is not funny. It comes over as plain spiteful. Your comment is not the sort of thing we want on PB.
Moreover, are you really a Unionist too, or an English colonialist who thinks he owns Scotland (and Wales and NI)?
We are part of the Union too for the moment, and we paid for the vaccines too. You are behaving just as the EU are in your own eyes.
Actually that's a very telling comment "THE Government stops SENDING any more vaccines to Scotland"
There you have the reason why any self respecting Scot would say enough is enough
Especially in a week when Mr J has been to a vaccine factory in Scotland!
But yes, if one is a Unionist one has to behave like one (or stop sounding as if Scotland is either a colony or a different nation state). It's a pretty pass when Malcy and I are better Unionists than some of the PBTories and anti-indy types on this site.
Look to your own side Carynx. I am strongly pro-Independence for Scotland but even I find Malcolm's constant anti-English diatribes to be offensive and self defeating. It is no wonder that those who don't actually agree with Independence find him to be beyond tolerating. Malcolm loses the Independence side a lot of support which would otherwise be forthcoming from those South of the border who feel no particular affinity for the Union.
You obviously are unable to understand the difference between UK and England Richard, a common complaint on here even by those who profess support for Scotland. I did not and have not ever been anti-English, I am anti UK. The fact that the UK is run completely by English people who when they get into power seem to believe they can dictate to other people is the issue. Have a good look at yourself , you seem to have more Little Englander complex than you care to profess, come out of the closet.
Michael Gove isn't English Malc. And he is very much 'the brains' (God help us - everyone) behind the current Government.
There is a shortage of people making their name in devolved-country politics and then moving into UK politics though. In a properly functioning devolved state this would be the norm.
EVEL put paid to that even though the principle had been in place for a time before that. Tories always hated devolution and moved to make sure they would not have Scots in high places again , I personally don't count a reptile like Gove as being Scottish as he is a conniving slimeball who would take on any mantle to promote himself. Hence the drift to certain Independence as they have marginalised anything Scottish at Westminster and actively worked against devolution and Scotland. Acted very like the EU are acting at the moment trying to browbeat everyone. Basically I totally agree with you.
Malc, that's not a valid argument and you know it. 'There are no Scottish people in power and that Scottish person doesn't count because I don't like him'.
Regarding the lack of Scottish politicians holding high positions in the UK parties, isn't it more a symptom of the popularity of the SNP, and the decline of the LDs, Labour, and to some extent the Tories in Scotland? The SNP in WM are, by choice, a permanent opposition. So you don't get the Browns, the Kennedys, the Darlings etc. that you once did. Hard to argue anyone else has marginalised you if you have done it yourself.
True as they have little to no MP's apart from the brown nosers like Gove that have English seats it is difficult. However the fact that they treat the SNP MP's so badly is shocking and explains perfectly why people want Independence. Though I would contend the unionists have done it to themselves by being so crap that all the MP's are SNP.
Have they been treated particularly badly?
This would be partially solved imo if there were a 'Scotland first' party, for and run in Scotland and not affiliated to the main parties but wishing to remain in the UK. A DUP for Scotland. They would be able to enter coalition with any other party, and the chances are they would be in power more than out of it. However, we are where we are. Even the latest party in Scotland 'Reform UK' is a Farage offshoot. That won't do anything.
Lucky you ever watched Scottish Questions or PM Questions , the place empties when SNP get up , they are derided , questions ignored and worse. Does not make you glad to be in union with the oafs in Westminster parliament.
No, I tend not to watch Parliament these days. Can't be bothered. Again, it's a chicken and egg situation. I have a strong suspicion that when SNP MP's ask questions and take part in debates, it is not to hold the Government to account, but to grandstand for a home audience as Farage used to do in the European Parliament. If they do, that would certainly produce a contemptuous reaction. I stand to be corrected.
The owner of this site described it as a great post so I thought it was worth seeing again.
You did right. Flawed but at the same time articulate and insightful. Ditto their follow up post when they got tumbling with the energetic and diligent Philip Thompson construct. It's certainly a useful counterview to what has been something of an orgy of "We're great, they're shit. Thank fuck we're out!" sentiment. The main point is a good one, I think. There is a disturbing amount of nationalistic propaganda pumped out these "Boris" and "Brexity" days, and there is a disturbingly large and receptive domestic audience for it. I personally don't think it's in the same ballpark as the Trumpian side of America, nevertheless it is something all those who are not sold on National Populism as the way forward should be anxious about.
He lost it when he said that America was merely "wounded" by Trump, but the UK is irretreviably broken. Not somebody who's been paying much attention to the USA is perhaps the charitable explanation.
I did say "flawed" and that is the biggest of them. You know my feelings about Trump and the damage he has done. I yield to nobody on it. Damage not just to America, btw, but globally. I think the Role Model aspect of having such a person in the highest elected office on the planet is not discussed and appreciated as much as it ought to be. His administration's policies were the least toxic thing about Donald Trump. Indeed many can be respectably supported. His legacy is not that. His legacy is his corrupting impact on hearts & minds.
So if you were to objectively examine a list of the words and actions of each side during this past week, which one would look more like Donald Trump to you? Because threatening his neighbours to cover up his own failings, spreading fake news about coronavirus treatments, playing fast and loose with agreements he signed, and generally throwing his toys out of the pram like a sad little baby seems like it would be right up his alley.
Yes. I am disappointed in Manu. Not particularly rooting for his re-election unless it's against Le Pen.
"Disappointed"?!?!?!
The man's become a fucking embarrassing disgrace.
Yes. That's why I'm disappointed. You should be too.
I'm appalled. You should be too.
Would you say you were more appalled by Macron than Trump or about the same? I don't remember you going on a 2 day rampage of dozens & dozens of 'fucking disgrace' tweets over oor Donald, though I may have missed it
Over the years PB dumped a million tons of ordure all over Trump. It wasn't an expl;sive one off, because Trump was consistently repugnant and outrageous over his entire ghastly presidency
Macron has in the past been a bit annoying and vain, but generally quite competent and sane, Yesterday, however, he suddenly evolved into a psychotic idiot hell-bent on destroying Europe's vaccination drive, and killing loads of his own citizens, while scaring millions more
So yes, the reaction has been more spectacular, because it is so sudden and unexpected. And so very very dangerous
I wouldn't go that far, but what he said was legitimately dangerous, particularly in a country with many anti-vaxxers, and there seems no reason behind it other than political calculation, since what he said in no way aligns to the potential concerns around lack of data for over 65s.
Trump is a far worse person overall, but we've had years of his repulsiveness to almost get used to. At some point calling him a deplorable figure just got old. Still true though.
The EU's top negotiator on vaccine contracts, Sandra Gallina, has defended the EU's collective approach on vaccines, arguing that doses collectively purchased will "come first", ahead of those secured under bilateral deals.
During a hearing in the European Parliament's environment and public health committee, Gallina said she was "confused" by recent reports of bilateral deals because the EU's overall strategy forbids member states from negotiating individually.
"I have not seen yet one [bilateral deal], I do not think I will ever. They do not exist based on what I have been told, [but in any case], the quantities [purchased] for Europe come first," Gallina told MEPs on Tuesday (12 January).
"This has been a united effort that has gotten us the doses that as a single country, big as the country can be, would have never received," Gallina warned.
Meanwhile, the commission expects to see faster deliveries of vaccines from April, as already agreed in the existing contracts.
The second quarter "is going to be the quarter with many doses".
That's a full 2 months away!
2 month's is bad, but there are some surprising countries set to do far worse according to this map. From The Economist, so maybe not foolproof...
I hope they are right but I fear they will struggle to reach that in France particularly given that half the population say they won't take the jab. Does anyone know what resistance to vaccination is like in any other countries apart from France and the UK? It is something that might become importance as we get towards the end of the year.
Spain is now at 60% certain and around 70% as probable.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
Nah. I absolutely love Secret Army, just brilliant. But that doesn't detract from the fact that, for its first few series at least, Allo Allo was just genius, not least because it showed everyone to be flawed irrespective of nationality.
Never really got the Allo Allo thing, but in any case surely it indicates the gap between UK and European experiences of the war. Maybe someone will prove me wrong but I very much doubt the French could make a crude and puerile* farce about the occupation (my view may be coloured by having just watched a not very good but still horrifying documentary on the Das Reich Division's activities in France in the wee small hours this morning).
*I'm a big fan of puerile usually in case anyone thought otherwise.
Whether they could make it or not, the dubbed French version is extremely popular in France, so perhaps they have more of a sense of humour about it than you give them credit for.
An expert on French TV ratings now, is there no end to your areas of expertise?! What were its viewing figures?
Comments
Sorry, couldn't resist...
However my understanding from someone who has been jabbed was that it depended on whether you had someone with you or not. Accompanied, and off you went.
The man's become a fucking embarrassing disgrace.
https://twitter.com/DanVevers/status/1355223887055876101?s=20
https://twitter.com/DanVevers/status/1355159465260167173?s=20
PS can you show me the death rates per million of Scotland versus England or is that too much for you.
That will be all
Have you attacked her for her performance over education, healthcare or other elements of her day job?
I read all kinds of that stuff inherited from an aunt in early teens, everything from SOE to POW to obscure accounts (I think I recall one about CAM ships, which were a really tiny aspect of the Atlantic War), and a few shockers about PoWs in Japanese camps and casual extreme violence.
I think it is important to resist offence being taken over trivia, and that "the Offended" does not get a veto.
Whenever today's numbers are published in full the cumulative first dose value should be somewhere in the vicinity of 8.4 million, and (at a guess) we should be looking for somewhere North of 16 million by mid-February (to indicate completion of the first four cohorts, and accounting for the fact that it seems anecdotally that some of the more advanced areas have already started on the fifth cohort.) That would require an average of about 450,000 per day, so I'm not sure we'll quite get there, but hopefully it should only be a near miss.
For example - I have gotten tired of hearing about how great Boris has been on all things vaccine.
That works. It's better than got.
Conversely - When I gotten back from the shops I was pissed off to realize that I had not gotten the milk.
That's horrible.
https://twitter.com/baptist_simon/status/1354639256908656646?s=19
Would you have expected the Nazis to be bombing land they occupied, controlled and bad their troops in? Or the Allies to do that?
Everyone did to be fair in socially distanced seating
https://twitter.com/HelenPuttick/status/1355445153524314112?s=20
https://www.cnews.fr/france/2020-12-03/sondage-61-des-francais-nont-pas-lintention-de-se-faire-vacciner-contre-le
I agree with a lot of what posters like Casino say about the need for democracies to stand together against China and other authoritarian dictatorships. But I fear that we have to win a struggle internally for democratic fundamentals first.
Biden's victory, while welcome, feels more like a goal against the run of play than a turning of the tide. But maybe I'm feeling unduly pessimistic due to lockdown.
I don't remember you going on a 2 day rampage of dozens & dozens of 'fucking disgrace' tweets over oor Donald, though I may have missed it
I expected the same to occur with vaccinations.
Australia, Canada and Norway are surprises though.
Non-EU Norway will get access to some of the vaccines obtained by the European Union thanks to Sweden, an EU member that will buy more than it needs and sell them to Norway, right after New Year.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN28E1AU
Macron is still the President of Britain's nearest neighbour. Just yesterday he did a massive, dirty shit right on top of the most important vaccine of the lot, and didn't even bother to wash his disgusting hands afterwards.
Thank you for the interesting Saturday contribution as always, @david_herdson
I see the Macron fan club on here is out in force today.
There's a lot of talk about returning to "normal" but, like it or not, the world has been fundamentally changed by Covid and those trying to consciously or sub consciously turn the clock back to December 2019 are not seeing what is going on.
In the midst of such fundamental social and economic change, it's inevitable politics will change as well.
The "reckoning" for Covid is going to be multi-faceted as the economic impacts manifest and more comes out about the initial and later response of Governments to events. In the case of the UK, it's clear the Government did some things right (the vaccine) and got some things wrong (failing to close borders, test and trace) and there will doubtless be a full independent public enquiry to which, one would hope, all Ministers including the Prime Ministers would be compelled to give evidence.
The same will be true elsewhere - the economic impact of what has happened and the political impact of decisions made and not made, the things Governments got right and the things they got it wrong. Politically, we can argue the response of New Zealand was a big factor in Jacinda Ardern's Labour Party winning a landslide last autumn and the response of the US Government a factor in Trump's defeat last November.
In Europe, it's much less clear cut - Boris Johnson's Government will rightly do well from the vaccine programme but the economic cost of Covid won't be popular and his Government has some awkward questions to answer as I've mentioned above. Macron will be in a similar position and unlike Boris his appointment with the election comes rather sooner.
That said, as vaccination rolls out, there will be a sense of relief and euphoria - I think the "feelgood" mood in Britain will be strong for much of this year and even in those countries currently not as advance din their vaccination rollout as the UK, the vaccines will get where they are needed.
My point is, perversely, the current delay and fracas might not damage Macron too much. Standing up to "les rosbifs" probably plays as well in France as standing up to the French does in the UK and if his vaccination programme gets to his population in the latter part of 2021, the French may still be in a post-vaccine euphoria next spring and that won't do Macron any harm.
I suppose the other possibility is Macron failing to get to the run-off. Could he come third in the first round? Seems implausible - could the centre-right unite behind either Pecresse or Bertrand? If you look back at the figures in early 2017, they aren't too different to now and in the second round Le Pen badly underperformed her polling which showed her in the range 37-41 and she ended on 34%.
Macron has in the past been a bit annoying and vain, but generally quite competent and sane, Yesterday, however, he suddenly evolved into a psychotic idiot hell-bent on destroying Europe's vaccination drive, and killing loads of his own citizens, while scaring millions more
So yes, the reaction has been more spectacular, because it is so sudden and unexpected. And so very very dangerous
This is the kind of thing I want our armed forces to be involved with and it would be a superb example of what "Global Britain" is all about.
I fully expect some enterprising business folk to set up warehousing in places like Calais and offer it as a service for small businesses.
Like Labour Cheese bloke, rather than send individual hampers, he just sends it in bulk to the distribution centre in Calais and the middle man company does the splitting up and sends it onward.
Like Amaozn FBA type service.
Under Macron France has been cosying up to dictators as increasingly is the EU as a whole. While the UK has been calling out China for what they're doing to Hong Kong and the Uighurs, the EU has been signing trade and investment deals with China.
The EU and France aren't a part of the western alliance anymore.
So what difference would Le Pen actually make? Like in Animal Farm we can look from Le Pen to Macron, and Macron to Le Pen, and not see a difference.
I very much doubt that any of Norway, Canada, Australia, South Korea and New Zealand will take until the middle of next year to get done. Japan and South Africa might make it this year as well. Greenland is a Danish dependency with a very small population so shouldn't have to wait too long. And if you squint at the map you'll notice that Serbia is down for the back end of 2022, when they're currently the seventh best performing country in the world by rate. But hey-ho.
Trump is a far worse person overall, but we've had years of his repulsiveness to almost get used to. At some point calling him a deplorable figure just got old. Still true though.
What were its viewing figures?