When the Government decide to play the vaccine, one-upmanship game... where did they expect it to end?
Yes, yes it must always be our fault
You haven’t answered the question, when the Government decided to taunt the EU... what was their end-in-mind? Surely they factored in the risk of supply interruptions making the taunts even more antagonistic... so why did they do it?
So one minister pointing out how successful the vaccine program he is partly responsible for justifies banning vaccine exports? What planet do you live on?
You’re not answering the question, why did Hancock decide it was appropriate to taunt Europe? He did it more than once. It was clearly a deliberate choice... so what was their end-game?
Do you understand the word politics
Everyone does it
Yes, but you also aren’t answering the question. Why did Hancock think the appropriate, political thing to do in early January and again in mid-January was to antagonise our European friends? What was his intention in doing so?
Because no serious politician would view that as antagonism.
Fair point but I’m still curious why Europe was chosen for the comparison rather than anything else... maybe it wasn’t a taunt directed at European politicians, maybe they were doubling down on the vaccine benefit of having Brexited... personally I find it at best crass... especially on a matter where the numbers speak for themselves and underline what an excellent job the vaccine task force has done.
I still don't see how you can even begin to equate boasting with denying access to vaccines.
“We urge the UK government to follow the EU’s lead and only secure vaccine doses for those who need it most (healthcare workers, over-65s and other vulnerable groups).”
Is that really what the EU have done/aimed for?
No, they've ordered enough for everyone and then some.
That guardian article on the vaccine scheme is completely damning of the EU. This stuck out to me in particular:
"However, the prospective deal collapsed. The UK was desperate to secure enough supply for its own citizens – and at the time, ministers including the health secretary, Matt Hancock, were concerned. Not about the EU – but about the behaviour of the then-US president, Donald Trump."
The EU is reduced to the status of Trump. That's what they're doing, they are taking his place.
It's good to know that for all the talk, the UK Govt appear to have been very clearheaded about what was happening in the US.
Well, there's always been this lazy assumption in some quarters that Trump and Johnson are birds of a feather, but whilst they're both flawed they're clearly also different personalities. Nor is Johnson stupid.
His Government, and those of his predecessors, have been walking a tightrope for the past four years - trying to maintain good relations with the Trump White House, without getting too close and becoming embroiled in any of his controversies in the process. I'm inclined to believe what the ex-head of the civil service said earlier in the month, when he claimed that Johnson would be relieved that Biden had won. The new President might not necessarily agree with the Prime Minister on everything, but they do share important common goals and Biden is stable and predictable, thank God.
A relationship where one of the partners is stable is certainly better than when neither of them is, for sure.
EU - "IN ITS VACCINE NEGOTIATIONS, Gallina and her team put great importance on three things: a wide selection of potential vaccines, low prices for each jab, and that drugmakers would bear legal responsibility if anything went wrong."
UK - "The government will spend up to £11.7bn ($15.8bn) on securing vaccines for the UK and rolling them out in England, as well as potentially covering drugmakers’ costs if they face legal action."
EU - "They announced plans to offer CureVac up to €80 million in loans to test and manufacture its vaccine in the EU"
A side point on all this. How much does it in part come down to the fact that the UK have its own currency and can borrow what they want to fund things?
Irrelevant. Government borrowing in the Eurozone is still a matter for the nation states, and in any event Germany at least is a substantially larger and richer state than the United Kingdom.
I have just had my 1st AZN dose. By the end of today 650 doses will have been administered to Group 5 patients at my practice. If this is in any way representative of other areas, then I can see light at the end of the tunnel for the first time.
Interesting: for clarity, do you mean the fifth cohort, i.e. they're done with the first four priority groups and have gone on to the recently retired round your way? That would be exceptionally quick.
When the Government decide to play the vaccine, one-upmanship game... where did they expect it to end?
Yes, yes it must always be our fault
You haven’t answered the question, when the Government decided to taunt the EU... what was their end-in-mind? Surely they factored in the risk of supply interruptions making the taunts even more antagonistic... so why did they do it?
So one minister pointing out how successful the vaccine program he is partly responsible for justifies banning vaccine exports? What planet do you live on?
You’re not answering the question, why did Hancock decide it was appropriate to taunt Europe? He did it more than once. It was clearly a deliberate choice... so what was their end-game?
Do you understand the word politics
Everyone does it
Yes, but you also aren’t answering the question. Why did Hancock think the appropriate, political thing to do in early January and again in mid-January was to antagonise our European friends? What was his intention in doing so?
Because no serious politician would view that as antagonism.
Fair point but I’m still curious why Europe was chosen for the comparison rather than anything else... maybe it wasn’t a taunt directed at European politicians, maybe they were doubling down on the vaccine benefit of having Brexited... personally I find it at best crass... especially on a matter where the numbers speak for themselves and underline what an excellent job the vaccine task force has done.
I still don't see how you can even begin to equate boasting with denying access to vaccines.
“We urge the UK government to follow the EU’s lead and only secure vaccine doses for those who need it most (healthcare workers, over-65s and other vulnerable groups).”
Is that really what the EU have done/aimed for?
The EU's statements appear to be geared towards having been a passive purchaser of vaccines. "We'll buy what we need, but not hoard them where we don't really need it". The idea that they could have had a substantial part to play in actively investing to expand supply seems to have passed them by.
To be fair I don't think the EU or UK will hoard unused supply. But that moment will come later than just having the over-65s done.
My point was that the EU's approach was the idea that there was a fixed supply, and they would only procure "their share". The UK's approach is that supply was ultimately unlimited, but they had to invest to bring that about. Even more so for a vaccine being delivered at cost.
Hardly. The EU have so far ordered 1.6 billion doses of vaccine - twice what they need to vaccinate their whole population including children who of course won't receive the vaccine.
When the Government decide to play the vaccine, one-upmanship game... where did they expect it to end?
Yes, yes it must always be our fault
You haven’t answered the question, when the Government decided to taunt the EU... what was their end-in-mind? Surely they factored in the risk of supply interruptions making the taunts even more antagonistic... so why did they do it?
So one minister pointing out how successful the vaccine program he is partly responsible for justifies banning vaccine exports? What planet do you live on?
You’re not answering the question, why did Hancock decide it was appropriate to taunt Europe? He did it more than once. It was clearly a deliberate choice... so what was their end-game?
Do you understand the word politics
Everyone does it
Yes, but you also aren’t answering the question. Why did Hancock think the appropriate, political thing to do in early January and again in mid-January was to antagonise our European friends? What was his intention in doing so?
Because no serious politician would view that as antagonism.
Fair point but I’m still curious why Europe was chosen for the comparison rather than anything else... maybe it wasn’t a taunt directed at European politicians, maybe they were doubling down on the vaccine benefit of having Brexited... personally I find it at best crass... especially on a matter where the numbers speak for themselves and underline what an excellent job the vaccine task force has done.
I still don't see how you can even begin to equate boasting with denying access to vaccines.
“We urge the UK government to follow the EU’s lead and only secure vaccine doses for those who need it most (healthcare workers, over-65s and other vulnerable groups).”
Is that really what the EU have done/aimed for?
The EU's statements appear to be geared towards having been a passive purchaser of vaccines. "We'll buy what we need, but not hoard them where we don't really need it". The idea that they could have had a substantial part to play in actively investing to expand supply seems to have passed them by.
To be fair I don't think the EU or UK will hoard unused supply. But that moment will come later than just having the over-65s done.
My point was that the EU's approach was the idea that there was a fixed supply, and they would only procure "their share". The UK's approach is that supply was ultimately unlimited, but they had to invest to bring that about. Even more so for a vaccine being delivered at cost.
Yes, it's the wartime effort approach vs the free market approach.
I think the UK and US governments have right recognised this as needing a wartime effort which means pumping money into all of the relevant industries to ensure a quick short term boost to capacity.
The EU has treated this as if it was the same as anything else and only requiring a normal effort. I think that comes from not having any voters to answer to. Hopefully national politicians will pay the price for the failures of the commission.
EU - "IN ITS VACCINE NEGOTIATIONS, Gallina and her team put great importance on three things: a wide selection of potential vaccines, low prices for each jab, and that drugmakers would bear legal responsibility if anything went wrong."
UK - "The government will spend up to £11.7bn ($15.8bn) on securing vaccines for the UK and rolling them out in England, as well as potentially covering drugmakers’ costs if they face legal action."
EU - "They announced plans to offer CureVac up to €80 million in loans to test and manufacture its vaccine in the EU"
A side point on all this. How much does it in part come down to the fact that the UK have its own currency and can borrow what they want to fund things?
Irrelevant. Government borrowing in the Eurozone is still a matter for the nation states, and in any event Germany at least is a substantially larger and richer state than the United Kingdom.
States can, although there are still rules. The EU is completely limited by its budget?
When the Government decide to play the vaccine, one-upmanship game... where did they expect it to end?
Yes, yes it must always be our fault
You haven’t answered the question, when the Government decided to taunt the EU... what was their end-in-mind? Surely they factored in the risk of supply interruptions making the taunts even more antagonistic... so why did they do it?
So one minister pointing out how successful the vaccine program he is partly responsible for justifies banning vaccine exports? What planet do you live on?
You’re not answering the question, why did Hancock decide it was appropriate to taunt Europe? He did it more than once. It was clearly a deliberate choice... so what was their end-game?
Do you understand the word politics
Everyone does it
Yes, but you also aren’t answering the question. Why did Hancock think the appropriate, political thing to do in early January and again in mid-January was to antagonise our European friends? What was his intention in doing so?
Because no serious politician would view that as antagonism.
Fair point but I’m still curious why Europe was chosen for the comparison rather than anything else... maybe it wasn’t a taunt directed at European politicians, maybe they were doubling down on the vaccine benefit of having Brexited... personally I find it at best crass... especially on a matter where the numbers speak for themselves and underline what an excellent job the vaccine task force has done.
I still don't see how you can even begin to equate boasting with denying access to vaccines.
“We urge the UK government to follow the EU’s lead and only secure vaccine doses for those who need it most (healthcare workers, over-65s and other vulnerable groups).”
Is that really what the EU have done/aimed for?
The EU's statements appear to be geared towards having been a passive purchaser of vaccines. "We'll buy what we need, but not hoard them where we don't really need it". The idea that they could have had a substantial part to play in actively investing to expand supply seems to have passed them by.
It is also false given how many doses they have ordered.
When the Government decide to play the vaccine, one-upmanship game... where did they expect it to end?
Yes, yes it must always be our fault
You haven’t answered the question, when the Government decided to taunt the EU... what was their end-in-mind? Surely they factored in the risk of supply interruptions making the taunts even more antagonistic... so why did they do it?
So one minister pointing out how successful the vaccine program he is partly responsible for justifies banning vaccine exports? What planet do you live on?
You’re not answering the question, why did Hancock decide it was appropriate to taunt Europe? He did it more than once. It was clearly a deliberate choice... so what was their end-game?
Do you understand the word politics
Everyone does it
Yes, but you also aren’t answering the question. Why did Hancock think the appropriate, political thing to do in early January and again in mid-January was to antagonise our European friends? What was his intention in doing so?
Because no serious politician would view that as antagonism.
Fair point but I’m still curious why Europe was chosen for the comparison rather than anything else... maybe it wasn’t a taunt directed at European politicians, maybe they were doubling down on the vaccine benefit of having Brexited... personally I find it at best crass... especially on a matter where the numbers speak for themselves and underline what an excellent job the vaccine task force has done.
I still don't see how you can even begin to equate boasting with denying access to vaccines.
“We urge the UK government to follow the EU’s lead and only secure vaccine doses for those who need it most (healthcare workers, over-65s and other vulnerable groups).”
When the Government decide to play the vaccine, one-upmanship game... where did they expect it to end?
Yes, yes it must always be our fault
You haven’t answered the question, when the Government decided to taunt the EU... what was their end-in-mind? Surely they factored in the risk of supply interruptions making the taunts even more antagonistic... so why did they do it?
So one minister pointing out how successful the vaccine program he is partly responsible for justifies banning vaccine exports? What planet do you live on?
You’re not answering the question, why did Hancock decide it was appropriate to taunt Europe? He did it more than once. It was clearly a deliberate choice... so what was their end-game?
Do you understand the word politics
Everyone does it
Yes, but you also aren’t answering the question. Why did Hancock think the appropriate, political thing to do in early January and again in mid-January was to antagonise our European friends? What was his intention in doing so?
Because no serious politician would view that as antagonism.
Fair point but I’m still curious why Europe was chosen for the comparison rather than anything else... maybe it wasn’t a taunt directed at European politicians, maybe they were doubling down on the vaccine benefit of having Brexited... personally I find it at best crass... especially on a matter where the numbers speak for themselves and underline what an excellent job the vaccine task force has done.
I still don't see how you can even begin to equate boasting with denying access to vaccines.
“We urge the UK government to follow the EU’s lead and only secure vaccine doses for those who need it most (healthcare workers, over-65s and other vulnerable groups).”
Is that really what the EU have done/aimed for?
No, they've ordered enough for everyone and then some.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
When the Government decide to play the vaccine, one-upmanship game... where did they expect it to end?
Yes, yes it must always be our fault
You haven’t answered the question, when the Government decided to taunt the EU... what was their end-in-mind? Surely they factored in the risk of supply interruptions making the taunts even more antagonistic... so why did they do it?
So one minister pointing out how successful the vaccine program he is partly responsible for justifies banning vaccine exports? What planet do you live on?
You’re not answering the question, why did Hancock decide it was appropriate to taunt Europe? He did it more than once. It was clearly a deliberate choice... so what was their end-game?
Do you understand the word politics
Everyone does it
Yes, but you also aren’t answering the question. Why did Hancock think the appropriate, political thing to do in early January and again in mid-January was to antagonise our European friends? What was his intention in doing so?
Because no serious politician would view that as antagonism.
Fair point but I’m still curious why Europe was chosen for the comparison rather than anything else... maybe it wasn’t a taunt directed at European politicians, maybe they were doubling down on the vaccine benefit of having Brexited... personally I find it at best crass... especially on a matter where the numbers speak for themselves and underline what an excellent job the vaccine task force has done.
I still don't see how you can even begin to equate boasting with denying access to vaccines.
“We urge the UK government to follow the EU’s lead and only secure vaccine doses for those who need it most (healthcare workers, over-65s and other vulnerable groups).”
Is that really what the EU have done/aimed for?
The EU's statements appear to be geared towards having been a passive purchaser of vaccines. "We'll buy what we need, but not hoard them where we don't really need it". The idea that they could have had a substantial part to play in actively investing to expand supply seems to have passed them by.
It is also false given how many doses they have ordered.
Fair enough on the doses ordered point. How about their contribution to actually ramping up capacity?
The owner of this site described it as a great post so I thought it was worth seeing again.
You did right. Flawed but at the same time articulate and insightful. Ditto their follow up post when they got tumbling with the energetic and diligent Philip Thompson construct. It's certainly a useful counterview to what has been something of an orgy of "We're great, they're shit. Thank fuck we're out!" sentiment. The main point is a good one, I think. There is a disturbing amount of nationalistic propaganda pumped out these "Boris" and "Brexity" days, and there is a disturbingly large and receptive domestic audience for it. I personally don't think it's in the same ballpark as the Trumpian side of America, nevertheless it is something all those who are not sold on National Populism as the way forward should be anxious about.
He lost it when he said that America was merely "wounded" by Trump, but the UK is irretreviably broken. Not somebody who's been paying much attention to the USA is perhaps the charitable explanation.
I did say "flawed" and that is the biggest of them. You know my feelings about Trump and the damage he has done. I yield to nobody on it. Damage not just to America, btw, but globally. I think the Role Model aspect of having such a person in the highest elected office on the planet is not discussed and appreciated as much as it ought to be. His administration's policies were the least toxic thing about Donald Trump. Indeed many can be respectably supported. His legacy is not that. His legacy is his corrupting impact on hearts & minds.
So if you were to objectively examine a list of the words and actions of each side during this past week, which one would look more like Donald Trump to you? Because threatening his neighbours to cover up his own failings, spreading fake news about coronavirus treatments, playing fast and loose with agreements he signed, and generally throwing his toys out of the pram like a sad little baby seems like it would be right up his alley.
It is taking place - just without any sense of urgency......
Apart from the several places where it is currently stopped.
Is it completely stopped, or just new first doses? I guess the benefit of being continent wide is the situation is so varied from place to place any statement will be at least partly true.
Hopefully things pick up next week.
With numbers going through the roof right now we are in for a very difficult few weeks. The aim is for 70% of older groups done by the summer. Their is pessimism as to whether even that can be achieved.
70 % of OLDER groups BY SUMMER........ - more vaccines coming through soon - hopefully they will pick up pace then
The vaccination programme is proving challenging for many second homers who, in true SeanT style, fled the mainland for their island holiday hideouts the minute lockdown was imposed, for they’re being offered the vaccine appointments back at hospitals or GP practices where they normally live.
One guy in his 70s who normally lives in Worthing was pleased to be offered a vaccination at the St Lawrence medical practice, which he assumed was just a few miles away from his holiday home down here, but when he went looking for it he realised it was St Lawrence in Worthing, where he normally lives. So he missed out.
In my experience in life the most difficult people to deal with are those who never change their mind.
Events shift. Facts evolve. So must we.
I certainly hadn’t fully processed just how bad the EU is likely to keep looking from the outside (they might not do anything this egregious too often, but they’ll do other stuff). My slight worry we’d end up rejoining is falling away.
I would have campaigned hard to rejoin. And, personally, I was beginning to look at houses in Scotland for retirement in what I thought would become an EU country.
No more. After the disgraceful behaviour of the EU and, far worse, the manner in which they have crapped all over their own citizens there's no chance I will ever support them again. They have acted like the worst examples of an old centralist Communist dictatorship, even evoking the idea that solidarity comes before production. They have made an appalling mess of the most important job since their inception.
We got out just in time. Now we need to face out and strike trade deals around the world.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I thought Brexit was a disastrous mistake. Now I think it was the right thing to do.
I never liked the undemocratic nature of the EU. But I'd never seen a demonstration of just how dangerous the consequences could be.
How can anyone trust the EU Commission to comply with even the most minimal standards of behaviour after this? Disregard for the well-being of their own people, and contempt for everyone else.
My sentiments exactly.
And to Roger, this isn't about 'being flaky' ffs. This is people's lives we're talking about. It is the biggest crisis since the second world war, without a shadow of doubt, and the EU have flunked it. Since when they have lashed out at the British for getting on with the job of vaccinating their citizens as the EU should have done.
I was a remainer but I will never again support the EU after this. Everything that you thought could be bad about an over-centralised bureaucracy has come to the fore. Hideous red tape that is, literally, going to kill their own people.
As the country with the most deaths in Europe it ill behoves the UK to say 'the EU have flunked it'. What's the debate about if it isn't about saving lives which the the UK government have singularly failed to do
Those praising British vaccine policy are well aware of our failings early on with this pandemic. The NYT piece, like Janet Street-Porter's in yesterday's Mail, acknowledge that. Some of our deaths are undoubtedly also not down to the Gov't but our freedom aspiring recalcitrance and, continued, refusal to wear masks, socially distance and follow rules. But yes we messed it up.
However, as vaccines are the way out of this I strongly suggest you wait for the final tally rather than the one at half-time.
I just find it mind boggling to see otherwise intelligent people answer everything with a chorus of Rule Britannia
Little minds get boggled easily - Ode to Joy is little better. What is your view of Macron's anti-vax comments?
Perhaps he just got bored with the English Exceptionalists and decided to follow the old proverb "Those who the gods wish to destroy they first make mad" and it seems to be working
We seem to be ok with vaccine provision, here in the UK, but have we adequate stocks of paper bags for the PB Euro-hating hyperventilators to breath into?
I voted Remain and live in Spain where vaccinations have paused. I think I'm allowed to vent a little when the authorities I rely on behave badly.
Why not complain to the Spanish rather than venting your Little Englander crap on here when you don't even live in the country.
I do and I complain about the EU as they are in charge. You could try moderating your language your nasty prejudices about where people choose to live show your true colours.
It is your choice to live there, I don't give a rat's arse where you live. I am interested in where I live.
I thought you wanted to live in the EU too? Indeed that's now one of the central arguments of the Scottish 'independence' movement. I suspect you might need an answer on the vaccine issue as if the unionists have any sense they will hammer you on it.
Frank don't be a silly boy. Living in a member country of the EU does not mean you live in a fictional country called the EU. We have plenty of vaccines by the way , we have paid up front for them and have cast iron contracts. Toodlepip.
Thanks to Kate Bingham and the UK government.
I know where I live Max and who the government are, perhaps you should be trying to educate Frank rather than myself. He does not seem to understand that Scotland is in fact still in the UK and has paid upfront for our vaccines via our government using our money.
The Scottish government led vaccine procurement for Scotland?
Rob, don't be silly , you well know the Tories hide everything from the Scottish government and are scared that if they ever included them in anything they would be shown up for the fools they are.
I'll take that as a no.
We would be in far better shape if they had been running the show for sure and much less largesse for the chumocracy.
Well the Scottish government is in charge of the roll out of the vaccine Malcolm and they are bloody slow. They were also in charge of testing where we again lagged behind the rest of the UK substantially.
And so far as I can see the chumocracy has currently provided:
The third highest level of testing per million of any large or medium sized country in the world. The first approved vaccine. A remarkably high strike rate in vaccines that we invested in. Massive domestic production created almost from scratch to protect ourselves from fools such as the EU. The best roll out of vaccines of any large country in the world and better than all except Israel of medium sized countries.
It does rather suggest to me that part of the Scottish problem is that Nicola's chums are useless twats like the last 2 health secretaries.
'We're sorry if you feel you have died, but as you're in a high risk category you should be receiving notification regarding your vaccination shortly.'
If only we'd follow England's model we could have the vaccine and their infection and death rates.
When the Government decide to play the vaccine, one-upmanship game... where did they expect it to end?
Yes, yes it must always be our fault
You haven’t answered the question, when the Government decided to taunt the EU... what was their end-in-mind? Surely they factored in the risk of supply interruptions making the taunts even more antagonistic... so why did they do it?
So one minister pointing out how successful the vaccine program he is partly responsible for justifies banning vaccine exports? What planet do you live on?
You’re not answering the question, why did Hancock decide it was appropriate to taunt Europe? He did it more than once. It was clearly a deliberate choice... so what was their end-game?
Do you understand the word politics
Everyone does it
Yes, but you also aren’t answering the question. Why did Hancock think the appropriate, political thing to do in early January and again in mid-January was to antagonise our European friends? What was his intention in doing so?
Because no serious politician would view that as antagonism.
Fair point but I’m still curious why Europe was chosen for the comparison rather than anything else... maybe it wasn’t a taunt directed at European politicians, maybe they were doubling down on the vaccine benefit of having Brexited... personally I find it at best crass... especially on a matter where the numbers speak for themselves and underline what an excellent job the vaccine task force has done.
I still don't see how you can even begin to equate boasting with denying access to vaccines.
“We urge the UK government to follow the EU’s lead and only secure vaccine doses for those who need it most (healthcare workers, over-65s and other vulnerable groups).”
Is that really what the EU have done/aimed for?
No, they've ordered enough for everyone and then some.
They have now.
They already had by the beginning of the year.
Yes, the accusation is they were too slow and thus have been harder hit by delivery delays, not that they haven't signed for enough by now.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
Good day for jabs - ENGLAND ONLY: 437,886 total, up 27% vs yesterday and 12,290 vs last week, first 436,360 also 27% up vs yesterday and 11,882 vs last week, second 1,526 up 20% vs yesterday and 408 vs last week
I have just had my 1st AZN dose. By the end of today 650 doses will have been administered to Group 5 patients at my practice. If this is in any way representative of other areas, then I can see light at the end of the tunnel for the first time.
Interesting: for clarity, do you mean the fifth cohort, i.e. they're done with the first four priority groups and have gone on to the recently retired round your way? That would be exceptionally quick.
Good day for jabs - ENGLAND ONLY: 437,886 total, up 27% vs yesterday and 12,290 vs last week, first 436,360 also 27% up vs yesterday and 11,882 vs last week, second 1,526 up 20% vs yesterday and 408 vs last week
To infinity and beyond.....until.the EU decide to throw another temper tantrum...
Good day for jabs - ENGLAND ONLY: 437,886 total, up 27% vs yesterday and 12,290 vs last week, first 436,360 also 27% up vs yesterday and 11,882 vs last week, second 1,526 up 20% vs yesterday and 408 vs last week
Seems like maybe more supplies became available around Wednesday.
I have just had my 1st AZN dose. By the end of today 650 doses will have been administered to Group 5 patients at my practice. If this is in any way representative of other areas, then I can see light at the end of the tunnel for the first time.
Interesting: for clarity, do you mean the fifth cohort, i.e. they're done with the first four priority groups and have gone on to the recently retired round your way? That would be exceptionally quick.
That is exactly the situation.
That is really heartening to hear
At my West London GP, they are doing the vulnerable and as many over 70s they can find this weekend. Some over 65s may be included I believe on a call up basis.
EU - "IN ITS VACCINE NEGOTIATIONS, Gallina and her team put great importance on three things: a wide selection of potential vaccines, low prices for each jab, and that drugmakers would bear legal responsibility if anything went wrong."
UK - "The government will spend up to £11.7bn ($15.8bn) on securing vaccines for the UK and rolling them out in England, as well as potentially covering drugmakers’ costs if they face legal action."
EU - "They announced plans to offer CureVac up to €80 million in loans to test and manufacture its vaccine in the EU"
A side point on all this. How much does it in part come down to the fact that the UK have its own currency and can borrow what they want to fund things?
Irrelevant. Government borrowing in the Eurozone is still a matter for the nation states, and in any event Germany at least is a substantially larger and richer state than the United Kingdom.
States can, although there are still rules. The EU is completely limited by its budget?
My understanding is that, whilst the Commission was organising collective procurement on behalf of the EU27, the purchase of the vaccines and any additional investment into their manufacture would be funded by the member states, rather than needing to come out of the existing EU budget. Although I'm sure I'll be swiftly corrected if wrong
The vaccination programme is proving challenging for many second homers who, in true SeanT style, fled the mainland for their island holiday hideouts the minute lockdown was imposed, for they’re being offered the vaccine appointments back at hospitals or GP practices where they normally live.
One guy in his 70s who normally lives in Worthing was pleased to be offered a vaccination at the St Lawrence medical practice, which he assumed was just a few miles away from his holiday home down here, but when he went looking for it he realised it was St Lawrence in Worthing, where he normally lives. So he missed out.
Once you have been contacted, you can rebook using the online system and fairly certain you can choose a really wide range of places, an extremely long way from home.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
The secret location is secretly written on the back of the canvas of the Madonna with the big... zeppelin race.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
Good moaning! I was pissing by the door when I hood you toking about voxines: but I have bad nose! Prosident Moocron says they are proctically ineffactive in the oover 65s! You must woot for the Pfoozer voxines from Bilgium!
A team of medics from the UK’s Emergency Medical Team (EMT) is deploying to Eswatini in southern Africa to provide support and specialist expertise in hospitals that are battling the coronavirus pandemic.
The team of 11, which includes four British medics, will fly from London Heathrow today to provide urgent training and clinical supervision to those treating patients critically ill with Covid-19.
As of 27 January 2021, Eswatini has a total of 15,051 Covid-19 cases and 522 people have died from the virus.
The country has seen a surge of new cases and fatalities since December, and has limited access to testing and treatments.
If we have spare vaccine capacity - this is the sort of place it should be allocated to - not Paris
When the Government decide to play the vaccine, one-upmanship game... where did they expect it to end?
Yes, yes it must always be our fault
You haven’t answered the question, when the Government decided to taunt the EU... what was their end-in-mind? Surely they factored in the risk of supply interruptions making the taunts even more antagonistic... so why did they do it?
So one minister pointing out how successful the vaccine program he is partly responsible for justifies banning vaccine exports? What planet do you live on?
You’re not answering the question, why did Hancock decide it was appropriate to taunt Europe? He did it more than once. It was clearly a deliberate choice... so what was their end-game?
Do you understand the word politics
Everyone does it
Yes, but you also aren’t answering the question. Why did Hancock think the appropriate, political thing to do in early January and again in mid-January was to antagonise our European friends? What was his intention in doing so?
Because no serious politician would view that as antagonism.
Fair point but I’m still curious why Europe was chosen for the comparison rather than anything else... maybe it wasn’t a taunt directed at European politicians, maybe they were doubling down on the vaccine benefit of having Brexited... personally I find it at best crass... especially on a matter where the numbers speak for themselves and underline what an excellent job the vaccine task force has done.
I still don't see how you can even begin to equate boasting with denying access to vaccines.
“We urge the UK government to follow the EU’s lead and only secure vaccine doses for those who need it most (healthcare workers, over-65s and other vulnerable groups).”
Is that really what the EU have done/aimed for?
The EU's statements appear to be geared towards having been a passive purchaser of vaccines. "We'll buy what we need, but not hoard them where we don't really need it". The idea that they could have had a substantial part to play in actively investing to expand supply seems to have passed them by.
It is also false given how many doses they have ordered.
Fair enough on the doses ordered point. How about their contribution to actually ramping up capacity?
Well given they have only invested 1/7th of the amount per capita that the UK and the US have done I wold suggest their contribution has been significantly below par. Which is one reason they are in the mess they are in now.
Good day for jabs - ENGLAND ONLY: 437,886 total, up 27% vs yesterday and 12,290 vs last week, first 436,360 also 27% up vs yesterday and 11,882 vs last week, second 1,526 up 20% vs yesterday and 408 vs last week
As I and others such as @MaxPB predicted at the time, they are going to make the 14m target by 14th February quite easily unless there is some serious disruption of supply. Combined with continuing lockdown I am hoping that the numbers in the FT piece you linked to prove to be a little conservative.
EU - "IN ITS VACCINE NEGOTIATIONS, Gallina and her team put great importance on three things: a wide selection of potential vaccines, low prices for each jab, and that drugmakers would bear legal responsibility if anything went wrong."
UK - "The government will spend up to £11.7bn ($15.8bn) on securing vaccines for the UK and rolling them out in England, as well as potentially covering drugmakers’ costs if they face legal action."
EU - "They announced plans to offer CureVac up to €80 million in loans to test and manufacture its vaccine in the EU"
A side point on all this. How much does it in part come down to the fact that the UK have its own currency and can borrow what they want to fund things?
Irrelevant. Government borrowing in the Eurozone is still a matter for the nation states, and in any event Germany at least is a substantially larger and richer state than the United Kingdom.
States can, although there are still rules. The EU is completely limited by its budget?
My understanding is that, whilst the Commission was organising collective procurement on behalf of the EU27, the purchase of the vaccines and any additional investment into their manufacture would be funded by the member states, rather than needing to come out of the existing EU budget. Although I'm sure I'll be swiftly corrected if wrong
There was a story posted here a couple of days ago describing the EU's scheme in quite a bit of detail. It said that the EU used some rarely-used legal instruments so that it would be empowered to enter into contracts and buy the vaccines directly, on behalf of the member states. I can't find the link now, but I will try to look around a bit more to find it.
When the Government decide to play the vaccine, one-upmanship game... where did they expect it to end?
Yes, yes it must always be our fault
You haven’t answered the question, when the Government decided to taunt the EU... what was their end-in-mind? Surely they factored in the risk of supply interruptions making the taunts even more antagonistic... so why did they do it?
So one minister pointing out how successful the vaccine program he is partly responsible for justifies banning vaccine exports? What planet do you live on?
You’re not answering the question, why did Hancock decide it was appropriate to taunt Europe? He did it more than once. It was clearly a deliberate choice... so what was their end-game?
Do you understand the word politics
Everyone does it
Yes, but you also aren’t answering the question. Why did Hancock think the appropriate, political thing to do in early January and again in mid-January was to antagonise our European friends? What was his intention in doing so?
Because no serious politician would view that as antagonism.
Fair point but I’m still curious why Europe was chosen for the comparison rather than anything else... maybe it wasn’t a taunt directed at European politicians, maybe they were doubling down on the vaccine benefit of having Brexited... personally I find it at best crass... especially on a matter where the numbers speak for themselves and underline what an excellent job the vaccine task force has done.
I still don't see how you can even begin to equate boasting with denying access to vaccines.
“We urge the UK government to follow the EU’s lead and only secure vaccine doses for those who need it most (healthcare workers, over-65s and other vulnerable groups).”
Is that really what the EU have done/aimed for?
The EU's statements appear to be geared towards having been a passive purchaser of vaccines. "We'll buy what we need, but not hoard them where we don't really need it". The idea that they could have had a substantial part to play in actively investing to expand supply seems to have passed them by.
To be fair I don't think the EU or UK will hoard unused supply. But that moment will come later than just having the over-65s done.
My point was that the EU's approach was the idea that there was a fixed supply, and they would only procure "their share". The UK's approach is that supply was ultimately unlimited, but they had to invest to bring that about. Even more so for a vaccine being delivered at cost.
Yes, it's the wartime effort approach vs the free market approach.
I think the UK and US governments have right recognised this as needing a wartime effort which means pumping money into all of the relevant industries to ensure a quick short term boost to capacity.
The EU has treated this as if it was the same as anything else and only requiring a normal effort. I think that comes from not having any voters to answer to. Hopefully national politicians will pay the price for the failures of the commission.
I would be to differ - it's not so much a wartime vs free market approach, as the approach to a supply issue where you are the main consumer (in your area) of a custom product.
Either
- you pay a high price, which will include the cost of building facility to deliver the product - you partner up and directly invest in production capacity - you join the queue of people paying, and eventually production capacity will come online
Bit like the electric car battery situation. There is no-one selling "1 million cars worth of batteries" over the counter. If you want to build a million cars, you are going to be investing in battery factories. Whether you like it or not.
Again, this seems like completely the wrong mindset. It is the language of "fixed supply, share it around". The message should be parallel supply with the Developed/rich world investing massively in development and supply chains in the third world. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
Maybe i'm being naive, but the best way to secure the involvement and investment of rich democratic countries is to have complete buy in from their populations. And that means ensuring their populations are vaccinated to the extent necessary to reopen their economies. Both for financial and democratic reasons.
The man who said that the idea of BJ becoming PM was Nat scaremongering now says that that dystopian figment of Scotch imaginations should butt out. A pleasing circularity.
'Scottish independence: Better Together chief calls on Boris Johnson to stay out of Scottish independence debate'
The EU's top negotiator on vaccine contracts, Sandra Gallina, has defended the EU's collective approach on vaccines, arguing that doses collectively purchased will "come first", ahead of those secured under bilateral deals.
During a hearing in the European Parliament's environment and public health committee, Gallina said she was "confused" by recent reports of bilateral deals because the EU's overall strategy forbids member states from negotiating individually.
"I have not seen yet one [bilateral deal], I do not think I will ever. They do not exist based on what I have been told, [but in any case], the quantities [purchased] for Europe come first," Gallina told MEPs on Tuesday (12 January).
"This has been a united effort that has gotten us the doses that as a single country, big as the country can be, would have never received," Gallina warned.
Meanwhile, the commission expects to see faster deliveries of vaccines from April, as already agreed in the existing contracts.
The second quarter "is going to be the quarter with many doses".
That guardian article on the vaccine scheme is completely damning of the EU. This stuck out to me in particular:
"However, the prospective deal collapsed. The UK was desperate to secure enough supply for its own citizens – and at the time, ministers including the health secretary, Matt Hancock, were concerned. Not about the EU – but about the behaviour of the then-US president, Donald Trump."
The EU is reduced to the status of Trump. That's what they're doing, they are taking his place.
It's good to know that for all the talk, the UK Govt appear to have been very clearheaded about what was happening in the US.
Well, there's always been this lazy assumption in some quarters that Trump and Johnson are birds of a feather, but whilst they're both flawed they're clearly also different personalities. Nor is Johnson stupid.
His Government, and those of his predecessors, have been walking a tightrope for the past four years - trying to maintain good relations with the Trump White House, without getting too close and becoming embroiled in any of his controversies in the process. I'm inclined to believe what the ex-head of the civil service said earlier in the month, when he claimed that Johnson would be relieved that Biden had won. The new President might not necessarily agree with the Prime Minister on everything, but they do share important common goals and Biden is stable and predictable, thank God.
A relationship where one of the partners is stable is certainly better than when neither of them is, for sure.
That's uncharitable. Johnson is a populist with a fraught relationship with the truth and a dislike for having to make difficult decisions. But by all accounts he's also an instinctive libertarian, as distinct from a borderline unhinged narcissist with dictatorial leanings. Besides, I know it's a very low bar and everything but I still think we're infinitely better off with him than we would have been with the alternative offered at the last General Election.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
[Die Welt's Stefanie Bolzen] claimed that the 'Anglophile' EU chief had undermined good relations with the UK in an attempt to 'distract from her own mistakes'.
I thought her actions were reckless and silly rather than vindictive against the UK, but I'd hate to see the actions of an anglophobe/UKoPhobe EU Chief!
The EU's top negotiator on vaccine contracts, Sandra Gallina, has defended the EU's collective approach on vaccines, arguing that doses collectively purchased will "come first", ahead of those secured under bilateral deals.
During a hearing in the European Parliament's environment and public health committee, Gallina said she was "confused" by recent reports of bilateral deals because the EU's overall strategy forbids member states from negotiating individually.
"I have not seen yet one [bilateral deal], I do not think I will ever. They do not exist based on what I have been told, [but in any case], the quantities [purchased] for Europe come first," Gallina told MEPs on Tuesday (12 January).
"This has been a united effort that has gotten us the doses that as a single country, big as the country can be, would have never received," Gallina warned.
Meanwhile, the commission expects to see faster deliveries of vaccines from April, as already agreed in the existing contracts.
The second quarter "is going to be the quarter with many doses".
I hope they are right - and for the record I think they probably will get a big boost in Q2.
Should break the 500k mark today for jabs recorded...its no.wonder the EU have done a dirty protest when they were told they could only have one packet of chocolate buttons.
That guardian article on the vaccine scheme is completely damning of the EU. This stuck out to me in particular:
"However, the prospective deal collapsed. The UK was desperate to secure enough supply for its own citizens – and at the time, ministers including the health secretary, Matt Hancock, were concerned. Not about the EU – but about the behaviour of the then-US president, Donald Trump."
The EU is reduced to the status of Trump. That's what they're doing, they are taking his place.
It's good to know that for all the talk, the UK Govt appear to have been very clearheaded about what was happening in the US.
Well, there's always been this lazy assumption in some quarters that Trump and Johnson are birds of a feather, but whilst they're both flawed they're clearly also different personalities. Nor is Johnson stupid.
His Government, and those of his predecessors, have been walking a tightrope for the past four years - trying to maintain good relations with the Trump White House, without getting too close and becoming embroiled in any of his controversies in the process. I'm inclined to believe what the ex-head of the civil service said earlier in the month, when he claimed that Johnson would be relieved that Biden had won. The new President might not necessarily agree with the Prime Minister on everything, but they do share important common goals and Biden is stable and predictable, thank God.
A relationship where one of the partners is stable is certainly better than when neither of them is, for sure.
That's uncharitable. Johnson is a populist with a fraught relationship with the truth and a dislike for having to make difficult decisions. But by all accounts he's also an instinctive libertarian, as distinct from a borderline unhinged narcissist with dictatorial leanings. Besides, I know it's a very low bar and everything but I still think we're infinitely better off with him than we would have been with the alternative offered at the last General Election.
That’s an appallingly low bar.
We’d have been better off with a more mature and responsible Tory membership choosing Hunt. The clown we got landed with may still go down in history as the man who flushed the union down the toilet.
EU - "IN ITS VACCINE NEGOTIATIONS, Gallina and her team put great importance on three things: a wide selection of potential vaccines, low prices for each jab, and that drugmakers would bear legal responsibility if anything went wrong."
UK - "The government will spend up to £11.7bn ($15.8bn) on securing vaccines for the UK and rolling them out in England, as well as potentially covering drugmakers’ costs if they face legal action."
EU - "They announced plans to offer CureVac up to €80 million in loans to test and manufacture its vaccine in the EU"
A side point on all this. How much does it in part come down to the fact that the UK have its own currency and can borrow what they want to fund things?
Irrelevant. Government borrowing in the Eurozone is still a matter for the nation states, and in any event Germany at least is a substantially larger and richer state than the United Kingdom.
States can, although there are still rules. The EU is completely limited by its budget?
My understanding is that, whilst the Commission was organising collective procurement on behalf of the EU27, the purchase of the vaccines and any additional investment into their manufacture would be funded by the member states, rather than needing to come out of the existing EU budget. Although I'm sure I'll be swiftly corrected if wrong
There was a story posted here a couple of days ago describing the EU's scheme in quite a bit of detail. It said that the EU used some rarely-used legal instruments so that it would be empowered to enter into contracts and buy the vaccines directly, on behalf of the member states. I can't find the link now, but I will try to look around a bit more to find it.
The problem is that there is nowhere to promote her to.
The thing about the new upper class, much like the old upper class, is that failure has a different meaning.
Do you remember the shocked response when one of the child care senior managers involved with Rotherham found it difficult to get a job... in child care? Apparently she had to settle for a job which paid slightly less than her previous job.....
Again, this seems like completely the wrong mindset. It is the language of "fixed supply, share it around". The message should be parallel supply with the Developed/rich world investing massively in development and supply chains in the third world. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
Maybe i'm being naive, but the best way to secure the involvement and investment of rich democratic countries is to have complete buy in from their populations. And that means ensuring their populations are vaccinated to the extent necessary to reopen their economies. Both for financial and democratic reasons.
They are. That is the point of the Covax project to which the UK has already pledged over half a billion pounds.
The EU's top negotiator on vaccine contracts, Sandra Gallina, has defended the EU's collective approach on vaccines, arguing that doses collectively purchased will "come first", ahead of those secured under bilateral deals.
During a hearing in the European Parliament's environment and public health committee, Gallina said she was "confused" by recent reports of bilateral deals because the EU's overall strategy forbids member states from negotiating individually.
"I have not seen yet one [bilateral deal], I do not think I will ever. They do not exist based on what I have been told, [but in any case], the quantities [purchased] for Europe come first," Gallina told MEPs on Tuesday (12 January).
"This has been a united effort that has gotten us the doses that as a single country, big as the country can be, would have never received," Gallina warned.
Meanwhile, the commission expects to see faster deliveries of vaccines from April, as already agreed in the existing contracts.
The second quarter "is going to be the quarter with many doses".
Not sure I understand the logic that a bilateral deal would definitely be received after a collective deal. Seems like that would depend on what the deal was signed and its terms. Whatever benefits might have accrued from the EU approach delivery time would seem to have little to do with it on the face of it.
But hopefully they do not suffer too much before April.
The EU's top negotiator on vaccine contracts, Sandra Gallina, has defended the EU's collective approach on vaccines, arguing that doses collectively purchased will "come first", ahead of those secured under bilateral deals.
During a hearing in the European Parliament's environment and public health committee, Gallina said she was "confused" by recent reports of bilateral deals because the EU's overall strategy forbids member states from negotiating individually.
"I have not seen yet one [bilateral deal], I do not think I will ever. They do not exist based on what I have been told, [but in any case], the quantities [purchased] for Europe come first," Gallina told MEPs on Tuesday (12 January).
"This has been a united effort that has gotten us the doses that as a single country, big as the country can be, would have never received," Gallina warned.
Meanwhile, the commission expects to see faster deliveries of vaccines from April, as already agreed in the existing contracts.
The second quarter "is going to be the quarter with many doses".
I hope they are right - and for the record I think they probably will get a big boost in Q2.
She doesn't exactly sound like she's got her finger on the pulse though.
The man who said that the idea of BJ becoming PM was Nat scaremongering now says that that dystopian figment of Scotch imaginations should butt out. A pleasing circularity.
'Scottish independence: Better Together chief calls on Boris Johnson to stay out of Scottish independence debate'
Fair enough on the doses ordered point. How about their contribution to actually ramping up capacity?
As I quoted earlier "They announced plans to offer CureVac up to €80 million in loans to test and manufacture its vaccine in the EU"
They lent them money
Reminds me of a joke made when Trump talked about gifting loads to his presidential campaign, but it was actually loaned from his companies to the campaign - and if people didn't think there was a difference, try giving their spouse an anniversary loan.
That guardian article on the vaccine scheme is completely damning of the EU. This stuck out to me in particular:
"However, the prospective deal collapsed. The UK was desperate to secure enough supply for its own citizens – and at the time, ministers including the health secretary, Matt Hancock, were concerned. Not about the EU – but about the behaviour of the then-US president, Donald Trump."
The EU is reduced to the status of Trump. That's what they're doing, they are taking his place.
It's good to know that for all the talk, the UK Govt appear to have been very clearheaded about what was happening in the US.
Well, there's always been this lazy assumption in some quarters that Trump and Johnson are birds of a feather, but whilst they're both flawed they're clearly also different personalities. Nor is Johnson stupid.
His Government, and those of his predecessors, have been walking a tightrope for the past four years - trying to maintain good relations with the Trump White House, without getting too close and becoming embroiled in any of his controversies in the process. I'm inclined to believe what the ex-head of the civil service said earlier in the month, when he claimed that Johnson would be relieved that Biden had won. The new President might not necessarily agree with the Prime Minister on everything, but they do share important common goals and Biden is stable and predictable, thank God.
A relationship where one of the partners is stable is certainly better than when neither of them is, for sure.
That's uncharitable. Johnson is a populist with a fraught relationship with the truth and a dislike for having to make difficult decisions. But by all accounts he's also an instinctive libertarian, as distinct from a borderline unhinged narcissist with dictatorial leanings. Besides, I know it's a very low bar and everything but I still think we're infinitely better off with him than we would have been with the alternative offered at the last General Election.
That’s an appallingly low bar.
We’d have been better off with a more mature and responsible Tory membership choosing Hunt. The clown may still go down in history as the man who flushed the union down the toilet.
At long last I'll be able to say something positive about him. Still may not bother though.
NY Times stories about the UK often quote people from the UK. Strangely, these people often speak in American idiom.
Hence the reference to the episode in a film where getting a cultural norm wrong reveals the spies.....
I get it now, but I couldn't see anything particularly un British like in the example quoted. Maybe I speak more american than I think, all that US TV growing up.
In my experience in life the most difficult people to deal with are those who never change their mind.
Events shift. Facts evolve. So must we.
I certainly hadn’t fully processed just how bad the EU is likely to keep looking from the outside (they might not do anything this egregious too often, but they’ll do other stuff). My slight worry we’d end up rejoining is falling away.
I would have campaigned hard to rejoin. And, personally, I was beginning to look at houses in Scotland for retirement in what I thought would become an EU country.
No more. After the disgraceful behaviour of the EU and, far worse, the manner in which they have crapped all over their own citizens there's no chance I will ever support them again. They have acted like the worst examples of an old centralist Communist dictatorship, even evoking the idea that solidarity comes before production. They have made an appalling mess of the most important job since their inception.
We got out just in time. Now we need to face out and strike trade deals around the world.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I thought Brexit was a disastrous mistake. Now I think it was the right thing to do.
I never liked the undemocratic nature of the EU. But I'd never seen a demonstration of just how dangerous the consequences could be.
How can anyone trust the EU Commission to comply with even the most minimal standards of behaviour after this? Disregard for the well-being of their own people, and contempt for everyone else.
My sentiments exactly.
And to Roger, this isn't about 'being flaky' ffs. This is people's lives we're talking about. It is the biggest crisis since the second world war, without a shadow of doubt, and the EU have flunked it. Since when they have lashed out at the British for getting on with the job of vaccinating their citizens as the EU should have done.
I was a remainer but I will never again support the EU after this. Everything that you thought could be bad about an over-centralised bureaucracy has come to the fore. Hideous red tape that is, literally, going to kill their own people.
As the country with the most deaths in Europe it ill behoves the UK to say 'the EU have flunked it'. What's the debate about if it isn't about saving lives which the the UK government have singularly failed to do
Well, I have been horrified by the mismanagement of the pandemic by the UK government so far (with the exception of vaccination) and I am equally horrified by the mess the EU have made in providing for their own citizens to be vaccinated. I don't understand why anyone would use either one of those to excuse the other.
Roger , you have been on here long enough to have heard the constant ringing of Jingo bells. Never mind the 6 figures dead , some on here just think Tories are awesome because we have some vaccines. Happy that they kill more than anyone with their incompetence and justify it all because we can jab the few left.
Can I suggest the Government stops sending any more vaccines to Scotland? Just to see what malcy with a propoer grievance looks like.
Of course, they don't need many anyway, because he's told us there's only a few left alive...
Hang on, that is not funny. It comes over as plain spiteful. Your comment is not the sort of thing we want on PB.
Moreover, are you really a Unionist too, or an English colonialist who thinks he owns Scotland (and Wales and NI)?
We are part of the Union too for the moment, and we paid for the vaccines too. You are behaving just as the EU are in your own eyes.
Actually that's a very telling comment "THE Government stops SENDING any more vaccines to Scotland"
There you have the reason why any self respecting Scot would say enough is enough
Especially in a week when Mr J has been to a vaccine factory in Scotland!
But yes, if one is a Unionist one has to behave like one (or stop sounding as if Scotland is either a colony or a different nation state). It's a pretty pass when Malcy and I are better Unionists than some of the PBTories and anti-indy types on this site.
Look to your own side Carynx. I am strongly pro-Independence for Scotland but even I find Malcolm's constant anti-English diatribes to be offensive and self defeating. It is no wonder that those who don't actually agree with Independence find him to be beyond tolerating. Malcolm loses the Independence side a lot of support which would otherwise be forthcoming from those South of the border who feel no particular affinity for the Union.
You obviously are unable to understand the difference between UK and England Richard, a common complaint on here even by those who profess support for Scotland. I did not and have not ever been anti-English, I am anti UK. The fact that the UK is run completely by English people who when they get into power seem to believe they can dictate to other people is the issue. Have a good look at yourself , you seem to have more Little Englander complex than you care to profess, come out of the closet.
Michael Gove isn't English Malc. And he is very much 'the brains' (God help us - everyone) behind the current Government.
There is a shortage of people making their name in devolved-country politics and then moving into UK politics though. In a properly functioning devolved state this would be the norm.
EVEL put paid to that even though the principle had been in place for a time before that. Tories always hated devolution and moved to make sure they would not have Scots in high places again , I personally don't count a reptile like Gove as being Scottish as he is a conniving slimeball who would take on any mantle to promote himself. Hence the drift to certain Independence as they have marginalised anything Scottish at Westminster and actively worked against devolution and Scotland. Acted very like the EU are acting at the moment trying to browbeat everyone. Basically I totally agree with you.
Malc, that's not a valid argument and you know it. 'There are no Scottish people in power and that Scottish person doesn't count because I don't like him'.
Regarding the lack of Scottish politicians holding high positions in the UK parties, isn't it more a symptom of the popularity of the SNP, and the decline of the LDs, Labour, and to some extent the Tories in Scotland? The SNP in WM are, by choice, a permanent opposition. So you don't get the Browns, the Kennedys, the Darlings etc. that you once did. Hard to argue anyone else has marginalised you if you have done it yourself.
True as they have little to no MP's apart from the brown nosers like Gove that have English seats it is difficult. However the fact that they treat the SNP MP's so badly is shocking and explains perfectly why people want Independence. Though I would contend the unionists have done it to themselves by being so crap that all the MP's are SNP.
Have they been treated particularly badly?
This would be partially solved imo if there were a 'Scotland first' party, for and run in Scotland and not affiliated to the main parties but wishing to remain in the UK. A DUP for Scotland. They would be able to enter coalition with any other party, and the chances are they would be in power more than out of it. However, we are where we are. Even the latest party in Scotland 'Reform UK' is a Farage offshoot. That won't do anything.
Lucky you ever watched Scottish Questions or PM Questions , the place empties when SNP get up , they are derided , questions ignored and worse. Does not make you glad to be in union with the oafs in Westminster parliament.
NY Times stories about the UK often quote people from the UK. Strangely, these people often speak in American idiom.
Hence the reference to the episode in a film where getting a cultural norm wrong reveals the spies.....
I get it now, but I couldn't see anything particularly un British like in the example quoted. Maybe I speak more american than I think, all that US TV growing up.
If Scotland was vaccinating a the same rate as England they would have done 43,000 jabs today, not 28,000 - which probably would have taken us over 500,000
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
Nah. I absolutely love Secret Army, just brilliant. But that doesn't detract from the fact that, for its first few series at least, Allo Allo was just genius, not least because it showed everyone to be flawed irrespective of nationality.
If Scotland was vaccinating a the same rate as England they would have done 43,000 jabs today, not 28,000 - which probably would have taken us over 500,000
I can't comprehend the Scottish figures.
Either they're throwing a lot of doses in the bin, or they're accumulating a mammoth stockpile.
NY Times stories about the UK often quote people from the UK. Strangely, these people often speak in American idiom.
Hence the reference to the episode in a film where getting a cultural norm wrong reveals the spies.....
I get it now, but I couldn't see anything particularly un British like in the example quoted. Maybe I speak more american than I think, all that US TV growing up.
Gotten. Not English.
That's actually a bit of myth. 'Gotten' has been rare in English for the last 200 years, but was the normal form for at least the previous 400. Shakespeare wrote it without hesitation, and it still makes sense today, unless you're a fan of defective paradigms.
In my experience in life the most difficult people to deal with are those who never change their mind.
Events shift. Facts evolve. So must we.
I certainly hadn’t fully processed just how bad the EU is likely to keep looking from the outside (they might not do anything this egregious too often, but they’ll do other stuff). My slight worry we’d end up rejoining is falling away.
I would have campaigned hard to rejoin. And, personally, I was beginning to look at houses in Scotland for retirement in what I thought would become an EU country.
No more. After the disgraceful behaviour of the EU and, far worse, the manner in which they have crapped all over their own citizens there's no chance I will ever support them again. They have acted like the worst examples of an old centralist Communist dictatorship, even evoking the idea that solidarity comes before production. They have made an appalling mess of the most important job since their inception.
We got out just in time. Now we need to face out and strike trade deals around the world.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I thought Brexit was a disastrous mistake. Now I think it was the right thing to do.
I never liked the undemocratic nature of the EU. But I'd never seen a demonstration of just how dangerous the consequences could be.
How can anyone trust the EU Commission to comply with even the most minimal standards of behaviour after this? Disregard for the well-being of their own people, and contempt for everyone else.
My sentiments exactly.
And to Roger, this isn't about 'being flaky' ffs. This is people's lives we're talking about. It is the biggest crisis since the second world war, without a shadow of doubt, and the EU have flunked it. Since when they have lashed out at the British for getting on with the job of vaccinating their citizens as the EU should have done.
I was a remainer but I will never again support the EU after this. Everything that you thought could be bad about an over-centralised bureaucracy has come to the fore. Hideous red tape that is, literally, going to kill their own people.
As the country with the most deaths in Europe it ill behoves the UK to say 'the EU have flunked it'. What's the debate about if it isn't about saving lives which the the UK government have singularly failed to do
Those praising British vaccine policy are well aware of our failings early on with this pandemic. The NYT piece, like Janet Street-Porter's in yesterday's Mail, acknowledge that. Some of our deaths are undoubtedly also not down to the Gov't but our freedom aspiring recalcitrance and, continued, refusal to wear masks, socially distance and follow rules. But yes we messed it up.
However, as vaccines are the way out of this I strongly suggest you wait for the final tally rather than the one at half-time.
I just find it mind boggling to see otherwise intelligent people answer everything with a chorus of Rule Britannia
Little minds get boggled easily - Ode to Joy is little better. What is your view of Macron's anti-vax comments?
Perhaps he just got bored with the English Exceptionalists and decided to follow the old proverb "Those who the gods wish to destroy they first make mad" and it seems to be working
We seem to be ok with vaccine provision, here in the UK, but have we adequate stocks of paper bags for the PB Euro-hating hyperventilators to breath into?
I voted Remain and live in Spain where vaccinations have paused. I think I'm allowed to vent a little when the authorities I rely on behave badly.
Why not complain to the Spanish rather than venting your Little Englander crap on here when you don't even live in the country.
I do and I complain about the EU as they are in charge. You could try moderating your language your nasty prejudices about where people choose to live show your true colours.
It is your choice to live there, I don't give a rat's arse where you live. I am interested in where I live.
I thought you wanted to live in the EU too? Indeed that's now one of the central arguments of the Scottish 'independence' movement. I suspect you might need an answer on the vaccine issue as if the unionists have any sense they will hammer you on it.
Frank don't be a silly boy. Living in a member country of the EU does not mean you live in a fictional country called the EU. We have plenty of vaccines by the way , we have paid up front for them and have cast iron contracts. Toodlepip.
Thanks to Kate Bingham and the UK government.
I know where I live Max and who the government are, perhaps you should be trying to educate Frank rather than myself. He does not seem to understand that Scotland is in fact still in the UK and has paid upfront for our vaccines via our government using our money.
The Scottish government led vaccine procurement for Scotland?
Rob, don't be silly , you well know the Tories hide everything from the Scottish government and are scared that if they ever included them in anything they would be shown up for the fools they are.
I'll take that as a no.
We would be in far better shape if they had been running the show for sure and much less largesse for the chumocracy.
Well the Scottish government is in charge of the roll out of the vaccine Malcolm and they are bloody slow. They were also in charge of testing where we again lagged behind the rest of the UK substantially.
And so far as I can see the chumocracy has currently provided:
The third highest level of testing per million of any large or medium sized country in the world. The first approved vaccine. A remarkably high strike rate in vaccines that we invested in. Massive domestic production created almost from scratch to protect ourselves from fools such as the EU. The best roll out of vaccines of any large country in the world and better than all except Israel of medium sized countries.
It does rather suggest to me that part of the Scottish problem is that Nicola's chums are useless twats like the last 2 health secretaries.
David, they chose to do the most fragile difficult cases first and then all the health workers. They could have been a bit further ahead if taking the low hanging fruit like England but we see the difference in death rates every day and our ratio is way way below England so I am happy to be a bit slower but prioritise the most vulnerable cases. I have my appointment and so they are doing people in 60's which does not appear to be that slow to me.
The EU's top negotiator on vaccine contracts, Sandra Gallina, has defended the EU's collective approach on vaccines, arguing that doses collectively purchased will "come first", ahead of those secured under bilateral deals.
During a hearing in the European Parliament's environment and public health committee, Gallina said she was "confused" by recent reports of bilateral deals because the EU's overall strategy forbids member states from negotiating individually.
"I have not seen yet one [bilateral deal], I do not think I will ever. They do not exist based on what I have been told, [but in any case], the quantities [purchased] for Europe come first," Gallina told MEPs on Tuesday (12 January).
"This has been a united effort that has gotten us the doses that as a single country, big as the country can be, would have never received," Gallina warned.
Meanwhile, the commission expects to see faster deliveries of vaccines from April, as already agreed in the existing contracts.
The second quarter "is going to be the quarter with many doses".
I think this is what bothers the commission and why we keep getting lectured about Unity and Solidarity™ by MEP, commissioners and such. They still like to think that the UK is beholden to EU rules, so they want that rule about bilateral purchasing deals being superceded by EU deal to apply to UK purchases.
Had we been a member and not been in the scheme how long until a new resolution was passed by QMV that said any COVID vaccine deliveries within the 28 nations should be delivered to the EU and then redistributed proportionally.
There's no way to succeed within the EU, everyone must fail.
Quite interesting - it says "your age group" (early 50s), but I am Type I diabetic with cancer treatment this year.
Nevertheless...
I was told by my GP that they were prioritising within the medically vulnerable group in the lists. In case vaccines came up short or whatever. So oldest with medical conditions first - except for some special cases.
NY Times stories about the UK often quote people from the UK. Strangely, these people often speak in American idiom.
Hence the reference to the episode in a film where getting a cultural norm wrong reveals the spies.....
I get it now, but I couldn't see anything particularly un British like in the example quoted. Maybe I speak more american than I think, all that US TV growing up.
Please don't ever use gotten. It sounds and looks awful.
EU - "IN ITS VACCINE NEGOTIATIONS, Gallina and her team put great importance on three things: a wide selection of potential vaccines, low prices for each jab, and that drugmakers would bear legal responsibility if anything went wrong."
UK - "The government will spend up to £11.7bn ($15.8bn) on securing vaccines for the UK and rolling them out in England, as well as potentially covering drugmakers’ costs if they face legal action."
EU - "They announced plans to offer CureVac up to €80 million in loans to test and manufacture its vaccine in the EU"
A side point on all this. How much does it in part come down to the fact that the UK have its own currency and can borrow what they want to fund things?
You think EU countries don't have currencies then?
NY Times stories about the UK often quote people from the UK. Strangely, these people often speak in American idiom.
Hence the reference to the episode in a film where getting a cultural norm wrong reveals the spies.....
I get it now, but I couldn't see anything particularly un British like in the example quoted. Maybe I speak more american than I think, all that US TV growing up.
Gotten. Not English.
That's actually a bit of myth. 'Gotten' has been rare in English for the last 200 years, but was the normal form for at least the previous 400. Shakespeare wrote it without hesitation, and it still makes sense today, unless you're a fan of defective paradigms.
Are you kidding? It's the only type of paradigm I am a fan of. I've gotten very bad that way.
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
Nah. I absolutely love Secret Army, just brilliant. But that doesn't detract from the fact that, for its first few series at least, Allo Allo was just genius, not least because it showed everyone to be flawed irrespective of nationality.
Yet go searching for lists of the best television series ever made, or even best British, and it never appears. Which is a travesty, and entirely down to 'Allo trashing its reputation. Read the book made about the series and it is clear the cast feel the same way.
EU - "IN ITS VACCINE NEGOTIATIONS, Gallina and her team put great importance on three things: a wide selection of potential vaccines, low prices for each jab, and that drugmakers would bear legal responsibility if anything went wrong."
UK - "The government will spend up to £11.7bn ($15.8bn) on securing vaccines for the UK and rolling them out in England, as well as potentially covering drugmakers’ costs if they face legal action."
EU - "They announced plans to offer CureVac up to €80 million in loans to test and manufacture its vaccine in the EU"
A side point on all this. How much does it in part come down to the fact that the UK have its own currency and can borrow what they want to fund things?
You think EU countries don't have currencies then?
If Scotland was vaccinating a the same rate as England they would have done 43,000 jabs today, not 28,000 - which probably would have taken us over 500,000
I can't comprehend the Scottish figures.
Either they're throwing a lot of doses in the bin, or they're accumulating a mammoth stockpile.
Neither makes sense.
If Scotland was vaccinating at the same rate as England they would have done 704k by now, not 543k
In my experience in life the most difficult people to deal with are those who never change their mind.
Events shift. Facts evolve. So must we.
I certainly hadn’t fully processed just how bad the EU is likely to keep looking from the outside (they might not do anything this egregious too often, but they’ll do other stuff). My slight worry we’d end up rejoining is falling away.
I would have campaigned hard to rejoin. And, personally, I was beginning to look at houses in Scotland for retirement in what I thought would become an EU country.
No more. After the disgraceful behaviour of the EU and, far worse, the manner in which they have crapped all over their own citizens there's no chance I will ever support them again. They have acted like the worst examples of an old centralist Communist dictatorship, even evoking the idea that solidarity comes before production. They have made an appalling mess of the most important job since their inception.
We got out just in time. Now we need to face out and strike trade deals around the world.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I thought Brexit was a disastrous mistake. Now I think it was the right thing to do.
I never liked the undemocratic nature of the EU. But I'd never seen a demonstration of just how dangerous the consequences could be.
How can anyone trust the EU Commission to comply with even the most minimal standards of behaviour after this? Disregard for the well-being of their own people, and contempt for everyone else.
My sentiments exactly.
And to Roger, this isn't about 'being flaky' ffs. This is people's lives we're talking about. It is the biggest crisis since the second world war, without a shadow of doubt, and the EU have flunked it. Since when they have lashed out at the British for getting on with the job of vaccinating their citizens as the EU should have done.
I was a remainer but I will never again support the EU after this. Everything that you thought could be bad about an over-centralised bureaucracy has come to the fore. Hideous red tape that is, literally, going to kill their own people.
As the country with the most deaths in Europe it ill behoves the UK to say 'the EU have flunked it'. What's the debate about if it isn't about saving lives which the the UK government have singularly failed to do
Those praising British vaccine policy are well aware of our failings early on with this pandemic. The NYT piece, like Janet Street-Porter's in yesterday's Mail, acknowledge that. Some of our deaths are undoubtedly also not down to the Gov't but our freedom aspiring recalcitrance and, continued, refusal to wear masks, socially distance and follow rules. But yes we messed it up.
However, as vaccines are the way out of this I strongly suggest you wait for the final tally rather than the one at half-time.
I just find it mind boggling to see otherwise intelligent people answer everything with a chorus of Rule Britannia
Little minds get boggled easily - Ode to Joy is little better. What is your view of Macron's anti-vax comments?
Perhaps he just got bored with the English Exceptionalists and decided to follow the old proverb "Those who the gods wish to destroy they first make mad" and it seems to be working
We seem to be ok with vaccine provision, here in the UK, but have we adequate stocks of paper bags for the PB Euro-hating hyperventilators to breath into?
I voted Remain and live in Spain where vaccinations have paused. I think I'm allowed to vent a little when the authorities I rely on behave badly.
Why not complain to the Spanish rather than venting your Little Englander crap on here when you don't even live in the country.
I do and I complain about the EU as they are in charge. You could try moderating your language your nasty prejudices about where people choose to live show your true colours.
It is your choice to live there, I don't give a rat's arse where you live. I am interested in where I live.
I thought you wanted to live in the EU too? Indeed that's now one of the central arguments of the Scottish 'independence' movement. I suspect you might need an answer on the vaccine issue as if the unionists have any sense they will hammer you on it.
Frank don't be a silly boy. Living in a member country of the EU does not mean you live in a fictional country called the EU. We have plenty of vaccines by the way , we have paid up front for them and have cast iron contracts. Toodlepip.
Thanks to Kate Bingham and the UK government.
I know where I live Max and who the government are, perhaps you should be trying to educate Frank rather than myself. He does not seem to understand that Scotland is in fact still in the UK and has paid upfront for our vaccines via our government using our money.
The Scottish government led vaccine procurement for Scotland?
Rob, don't be silly , you well know the Tories hide everything from the Scottish government and are scared that if they ever included them in anything they would be shown up for the fools they are.
I'll take that as a no.
We would be in far better shape if they had been running the show for sure and much less largesse for the chumocracy.
Well the Scottish government is in charge of the roll out of the vaccine Malcolm and they are bloody slow. They were also in charge of testing where we again lagged behind the rest of the UK substantially.
And so far as I can see the chumocracy has currently provided:
The third highest level of testing per million of any large or medium sized country in the world. The first approved vaccine. A remarkably high strike rate in vaccines that we invested in. Massive domestic production created almost from scratch to protect ourselves from fools such as the EU. The best roll out of vaccines of any large country in the world and better than all except Israel of medium sized countries.
It does rather suggest to me that part of the Scottish problem is that Nicola's chums are useless twats like the last 2 health secretaries.
David, they chose to do the most fragile difficult cases first and then all the health workers. They could have been a bit further ahead if taking the low hanging fruit like England but we see the difference in death rates every day and our ratio is way way below England so I am happy to be a bit slower but prioritise the most vulnerable cases. I have my appointment and so they are doing people in 60's which does not appear to be that slow to me.
Except the most vulnerable are all getting done in England too. Those most vulnerable cases have been done.
Doing the most vulnerable doesn't stop you from doing others too if you have more stock. The limitation should be stock not effort. If you have more stock then put more effort in to use it.
NY Times stories about the UK often quote people from the UK. Strangely, these people often speak in American idiom.
Hence the reference to the episode in a film where getting a cultural norm wrong reveals the spies.....
I get it now, but I couldn't see anything particularly un British like in the example quoted. Maybe I speak more american than I think, all that US TV growing up.
Please don't ever use gotten. It sounds and looks awful.
NY Times stories about the UK often quote people from the UK. Strangely, these people often speak in American idiom.
Hence the reference to the episode in a film where getting a cultural norm wrong reveals the spies.....
I get it now, but I couldn't see anything particularly un British like in the example quoted. Maybe I speak more american than I think, all that US TV growing up.
Gotten. Not English.
That's actually a bit of myth. 'Gotten' has been rare in English for the last 200 years, but was the normal form for at least the previous 400. Shakespeare wrote it without hesitation, and it still makes sense today, unless you're a fan of defective paradigms.
We don't speak how we did 200 to 600 years ago.
And an Englishman did not say "the one thing we've gotten right"
We are due to have our first jab and I have a genuine question which I hope Foxy or someone else who knows what they are talking about will respond to.
I get that Macron and Germany might well be playing politics with the notion that the AZN vaccine has low effectiveness for the over 65s. It is also my understanding that in the UK we have taken the decision to use Pfizer for the over 65s and AZN for the rest. If this is the case then does it not indicate that their may be some concern about the effectiveness of AZN for those over 65.
I think your understanding is wrong. AZN is being used for all age groups. Most intitially were Pfizer as this was what they had. AZN has been approved for use by the MHRA and the EMA for all ages.
Yes, it seems pretty random (unfortunately IMO, Olly's policy would be better, since Pfizer has the higher effectiveness so it makes sense to use it for the most vulnerable groups). A friend who is 75 got the AZ vaccine yesterday.
I get mine on Tuesday (don't know which). The enquiry was curiously tentative - "We could now offer you a vaccination. Would you be interested in doing that?" "Yes, of course." "It'll be at 8.27 on Tuesday, I know that's awfully earlky, will that be OK?" "Yes!" Just a very polite volunteer, I guess.
Didn't you ask? You wont want to get the wrong one when it comes to the second jab.
Yes, she said she didn't know. I'll ask when I get it.
Did they tell you to get the Eurostar and pick it up from a Belgian contact? If so it's Pfizer.
Did the nurse emerge out of a dry ice fog, like (Not) in Ice Station Zebra?
Apparently you go to the big square in Brussels to the cafe and ask for Rene..... #secretarmy
Are the vaccines hidden in the candle with 'andle on the gateau from the chateau, or are they the pill from the till, or is it in the jug with the drug? #alloallo
--AS
You stupid person (tm rene). Can you not see that this must be secret.
It remains terribly sad that ‘Secret Army’ - one of the best BBC television drama series ever made, which certainly stands the test of time (not least for its mature and before-its-time portrayal of the tensions and conflicts within the German side) has been eclipsed by a puerile sitcom the BBC foolishly chose to make in its wake.
Nah. I absolutely love Secret Army, just brilliant. But that doesn't detract from the fact that, for its first few series at least, Allo Allo was just genius, not least because it showed everyone to be flawed irrespective of nationality.
Never really got the Allo Allo thing, but in any case surely it indicates the gap between UK and European experiences of the war. Maybe someone will prove me wrong but I very much doubt the French could make a crude and puerile* farce about the occupation (my view may be coloured by having just watched a not very good but still horrifying documentary on the Das Reich Division's activities in France in the wee small hours this morning).
*I'm a big fan of puerile usually in case anyone thought otherwise.
If Scotland was vaccinating a the same rate as England they would have done 43,000 jabs today, not 28,000 - which probably would have taken us over 500,000
So not getting the big 500, because Welsh Excel crashed and the Scots still insist on keeping a massive stockpile...
In my experience in life the most difficult people to deal with are those who never change their mind.
Events shift. Facts evolve. So must we.
I certainly hadn’t fully processed just how bad the EU is likely to keep looking from the outside (they might not do anything this egregious too often, but they’ll do other stuff). My slight worry we’d end up rejoining is falling away.
I would have campaigned hard to rejoin. And, personally, I was beginning to look at houses in Scotland for retirement in what I thought would become an EU country.
No more. After the disgraceful behaviour of the EU and, far worse, the manner in which they have crapped all over their own citizens there's no chance I will ever support them again. They have acted like the worst examples of an old centralist Communist dictatorship, even evoking the idea that solidarity comes before production. They have made an appalling mess of the most important job since their inception.
We got out just in time. Now we need to face out and strike trade deals around the world.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I thought Brexit was a disastrous mistake. Now I think it was the right thing to do.
I never liked the undemocratic nature of the EU. But I'd never seen a demonstration of just how dangerous the consequences could be.
How can anyone trust the EU Commission to comply with even the most minimal standards of behaviour after this? Disregard for the well-being of their own people, and contempt for everyone else.
My sentiments exactly.
And to Roger, this isn't about 'being flaky' ffs. This is people's lives we're talking about. It is the biggest crisis since the second world war, without a shadow of doubt, and the EU have flunked it. Since when they have lashed out at the British for getting on with the job of vaccinating their citizens as the EU should have done.
I was a remainer but I will never again support the EU after this. Everything that you thought could be bad about an over-centralised bureaucracy has come to the fore. Hideous red tape that is, literally, going to kill their own people.
As the country with the most deaths in Europe it ill behoves the UK to say 'the EU have flunked it'. What's the debate about if it isn't about saving lives which the the UK government have singularly failed to do
Those praising British vaccine policy are well aware of our failings early on with this pandemic. The NYT piece, like Janet Street-Porter's in yesterday's Mail, acknowledge that. Some of our deaths are undoubtedly also not down to the Gov't but our freedom aspiring recalcitrance and, continued, refusal to wear masks, socially distance and follow rules. But yes we messed it up.
However, as vaccines are the way out of this I strongly suggest you wait for the final tally rather than the one at half-time.
I just find it mind boggling to see otherwise intelligent people answer everything with a chorus of Rule Britannia
Little minds get boggled easily - Ode to Joy is little better. What is your view of Macron's anti-vax comments?
Perhaps he just got bored with the English Exceptionalists and decided to follow the old proverb "Those who the gods wish to destroy they first make mad" and it seems to be working
We seem to be ok with vaccine provision, here in the UK, but have we adequate stocks of paper bags for the PB Euro-hating hyperventilators to breath into?
I voted Remain and live in Spain where vaccinations have paused. I think I'm allowed to vent a little when the authorities I rely on behave badly.
Why not complain to the Spanish rather than venting your Little Englander crap on here when you don't even live in the country.
I do and I complain about the EU as they are in charge. You could try moderating your language your nasty prejudices about where people choose to live show your true colours.
It is your choice to live there, I don't give a rat's arse where you live. I am interested in where I live.
I thought you wanted to live in the EU too? Indeed that's now one of the central arguments of the Scottish 'independence' movement. I suspect you might need an answer on the vaccine issue as if the unionists have any sense they will hammer you on it.
Frank don't be a silly boy. Living in a member country of the EU does not mean you live in a fictional country called the EU. We have plenty of vaccines by the way , we have paid up front for them and have cast iron contracts. Toodlepip.
Thanks to Kate Bingham and the UK government.
I know where I live Max and who the government are, perhaps you should be trying to educate Frank rather than myself. He does not seem to understand that Scotland is in fact still in the UK and has paid upfront for our vaccines via our government using our money.
The Scottish government led vaccine procurement for Scotland?
Rob, don't be silly , you well know the Tories hide everything from the Scottish government and are scared that if they ever included them in anything they would be shown up for the fools they are.
I'll take that as a no.
We would be in far better shape if they had been running the show for sure and much less largesse for the chumocracy.
Well the Scottish government is in charge of the roll out of the vaccine Malcolm and they are bloody slow. They were also in charge of testing where we again lagged behind the rest of the UK substantially.
And so far as I can see the chumocracy has currently provided:
The third highest level of testing per million of any large or medium sized country in the world. The first approved vaccine. A remarkably high strike rate in vaccines that we invested in. Massive domestic production created almost from scratch to protect ourselves from fools such as the EU. The best roll out of vaccines of any large country in the world and better than all except Israel of medium sized countries.
It does rather suggest to me that part of the Scottish problem is that Nicola's chums are useless twats like the last 2 health secretaries.
David, they chose to do the most fragile difficult cases first and then all the health workers. They could have been a bit further ahead if taking the low hanging fruit like England but we see the difference in death rates every day and our ratio is way way below England so I am happy to be a bit slower but prioritise the most vulnerable cases. I have my appointment and so they are doing people in 60's which does not appear to be that slow to me.
I think that that was true initially when there was a greater emphasis on getting to care homes etc which would have reduced the rate of inoculation. I am not so sure that it is true now. My mother in law (84) got hers last week and we seem to have been concentrating on the general older population for a couple of weeks now. And yet still the gap persists. Yesterday England has 437,866 , we have 27515. Its disappointing.
What seems to have happened is that in Scotland we have relied very heavily on the Health Boards whilst in England they have been much more willing to add additional capacity outwith the normal patterns to get this done.
In my experience in life the most difficult people to deal with are those who never change their mind.
Events shift. Facts evolve. So must we.
I certainly hadn’t fully processed just how bad the EU is likely to keep looking from the outside (they might not do anything this egregious too often, but they’ll do other stuff). My slight worry we’d end up rejoining is falling away.
I would have campaigned hard to rejoin. And, personally, I was beginning to look at houses in Scotland for retirement in what I thought would become an EU country.
No more. After the disgraceful behaviour of the EU and, far worse, the manner in which they have crapped all over their own citizens there's no chance I will ever support them again. They have acted like the worst examples of an old centralist Communist dictatorship, even evoking the idea that solidarity comes before production. They have made an appalling mess of the most important job since their inception.
We got out just in time. Now we need to face out and strike trade deals around the world.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I thought Brexit was a disastrous mistake. Now I think it was the right thing to do.
I never liked the undemocratic nature of the EU. But I'd never seen a demonstration of just how dangerous the consequences could be.
How can anyone trust the EU Commission to comply with even the most minimal standards of behaviour after this? Disregard for the well-being of their own people, and contempt for everyone else.
My sentiments exactly.
And to Roger, this isn't about 'being flaky' ffs. This is people's lives we're talking about. It is the biggest crisis since the second world war, without a shadow of doubt, and the EU have flunked it. Since when they have lashed out at the British for getting on with the job of vaccinating their citizens as the EU should have done.
I was a remainer but I will never again support the EU after this. Everything that you thought could be bad about an over-centralised bureaucracy has come to the fore. Hideous red tape that is, literally, going to kill their own people.
As the country with the most deaths in Europe it ill behoves the UK to say 'the EU have flunked it'. What's the debate about if it isn't about saving lives which the the UK government have singularly failed to do
Those praising British vaccine policy are well aware of our failings early on with this pandemic. The NYT piece, like Janet Street-Porter's in yesterday's Mail, acknowledge that. Some of our deaths are undoubtedly also not down to the Gov't but our freedom aspiring recalcitrance and, continued, refusal to wear masks, socially distance and follow rules. But yes we messed it up.
However, as vaccines are the way out of this I strongly suggest you wait for the final tally rather than the one at half-time.
I just find it mind boggling to see otherwise intelligent people answer everything with a chorus of Rule Britannia
Little minds get boggled easily - Ode to Joy is little better. What is your view of Macron's anti-vax comments?
Perhaps he just got bored with the English Exceptionalists and decided to follow the old proverb "Those who the gods wish to destroy they first make mad" and it seems to be working
We seem to be ok with vaccine provision, here in the UK, but have we adequate stocks of paper bags for the PB Euro-hating hyperventilators to breath into?
I voted Remain and live in Spain where vaccinations have paused. I think I'm allowed to vent a little when the authorities I rely on behave badly.
Why not complain to the Spanish rather than venting your Little Englander crap on here when you don't even live in the country.
I do and I complain about the EU as they are in charge. You could try moderating your language your nasty prejudices about where people choose to live show your true colours.
It is your choice to live there, I don't give a rat's arse where you live. I am interested in where I live.
I thought you wanted to live in the EU too? Indeed that's now one of the central arguments of the Scottish 'independence' movement. I suspect you might need an answer on the vaccine issue as if the unionists have any sense they will hammer you on it.
Frank don't be a silly boy. Living in a member country of the EU does not mean you live in a fictional country called the EU. We have plenty of vaccines by the way , we have paid up front for them and have cast iron contracts. Toodlepip.
Thanks to Kate Bingham and the UK government.
I know where I live Max and who the government are, perhaps you should be trying to educate Frank rather than myself. He does not seem to understand that Scotland is in fact still in the UK and has paid upfront for our vaccines via our government using our money.
That's one part of the debt at least that we can put you down for taking on post Independence then?
As long as we get our fair share of all assets we will take on a fair share of the debts. No share of all the assets , infrastructure , buildings , ships , embassies etc that we have paid for then as per the last time rUK will choose to keep its debt.
Do you want your share of buildings as the buildings in Scotland? Or do you want 9% of the buildings in England - and for England to have 90% of the buildings in Scotland?
Philip, as you well know 90% of next to nothing is almost nothing, happy to give you 90% of our meagre fair for 10% of your opulence including the tax havens.
Well I am ok with that if that is what you want.
Though I doubt that the Scottish Government will want to negotiate the rump UK Government owning 90% of Holyrood. If they do then fair enough.
we will turn our 10% of westminster parliament into a theme park and make a fortune.
Comments
I think the UK and US governments have right recognised this as needing a wartime effort which means pumping money into all of the relevant industries to ensure a quick short term boost to capacity.
The EU has treated this as if it was the same as anything else and only requiring a normal effort. I think that comes from not having any voters to answer to. Hopefully national politicians will pay the price for the failures of the commission.
--AS
One guy in his 70s who normally lives in Worthing was pleased to be offered a vaccination at the St Lawrence medical practice, which he assumed was just a few miles away from his holiday home down here, but when he went looking for it he realised it was St Lawrence in Worthing, where he normally lives. So he missed out.
'We're sorry if you feel you have died, but as you're in a high risk category you should be receiving notification regarding your vaccination shortly.'
If only we'd follow England's model we could have the vaccine and their infection and death rates.
Shshhhh .
Don't tell anyone.
--AS
The team of 11, which includes four British medics, will fly from London Heathrow today to provide urgent training and clinical supervision to those treating patients critically ill with Covid-19.
As of 27 January 2021, Eswatini has a total of 15,051 Covid-19 cases and 522 people have died from the virus.
The country has seen a surge of new cases and fatalities since December, and has limited access to testing and treatments.
If we have spare vaccine capacity - this is the sort of place it should be allocated to - not Paris
Oh dear - poor Ursula
Will she be sacked??
*** tumbleweed*****
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55860540
Either
- you pay a high price, which will include the cost of building facility to deliver the product
- you partner up and directly invest in production capacity
- you join the queue of people paying, and eventually production capacity will come online
Bit like the electric car battery situation. There is no-one selling "1 million cars worth of batteries" over the counter. If you want to build a million cars, you are going to be investing in battery factories. Whether you like it or not.
Again, this seems like completely the wrong mindset. It is the language of "fixed supply, share it around". The message should be parallel supply with the Developed/rich world investing massively in development and supply chains in the third world. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
Maybe i'm being naive, but the best way to secure the involvement and investment of rich democratic countries is to have complete buy in from their populations. And that means ensuring their populations are vaccinated to the extent necessary to reopen their economies. Both for financial and democratic reasons.
'Scottish independence: Better Together chief calls on Boris Johnson to stay out of Scottish independence debate'
https://tinyurl.com/y4mmawzo
They lent them money
https://euobserver.com/coronavirus/150587
The EU's top negotiator on vaccine contracts, Sandra Gallina, has defended the EU's collective approach on vaccines, arguing that doses collectively purchased will "come first", ahead of those secured under bilateral deals.
During a hearing in the European Parliament's environment and public health committee, Gallina said she was "confused" by recent reports of bilateral deals because the EU's overall strategy forbids member states from negotiating individually.
"I have not seen yet one [bilateral deal], I do not think I will ever. They do not exist based on what I have been told, [but in any case], the quantities [purchased] for Europe come first," Gallina told MEPs on Tuesday (12 January).
"This has been a united effort that has gotten us the doses that as a single country, big as the country can be, would have never received," Gallina warned.
Meanwhile, the commission expects to see faster deliveries of vaccines from April, as already agreed in the existing contracts.
The second quarter "is going to be the quarter with many doses".
[Die Welt's Stefanie Bolzen] claimed that the 'Anglophile' EU chief had undermined good relations with the UK in an attempt to 'distract from her own mistakes'.
I thought her actions were reckless and silly rather than vindictive against the UK, but I'd hate to see the actions of an anglophobe/UKoPhobe EU Chief!
We’d have been better off with a more mature and responsible Tory membership choosing Hunt. The clown we got landed with may still go down in history as the man who flushed the union down the toilet.
Beyond that, there's a bit here:
https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/corona-impfstoff-knappheit-die-eu-hat-einen-machtverlust-erlitten-und-das-bekommt-sie-jetzt-zu-spueren-a-7dc4101c-abb8-4883-b4f6-4acad29b5acb
The thing about the new upper class, much like the old upper class, is that failure has a different meaning.
Do you remember the shocked response when one of the child care senior managers involved with Rotherham found it difficult to get a job... in child care? Apparently she had to settle for a job which paid slightly less than her previous job.....
But hopefully they do not suffer too much before April.
Hence the reference to the episode in a film where getting a cultural norm wrong reveals the spies.....
Still may not bother though.
https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1355513824011563014?s=20
https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1355516660187340804?s=20
If Scotland was vaccinating a the same rate as England they would have done 43,000 jabs today, not 28,000 - which probably would have taken us over 500,000
- An effete gourmet
- A Cambridge man
- A Russian Spy. But I repeat myself
Only sensible move was to stab him to death, hide his body in toilet and leave the train at the next station
https://twitter.com/ElphinstoneJack/status/1355434395331604480?s=20
Either they're throwing a lot of doses in the bin, or they're accumulating a mammoth stockpile.
Neither makes sense.
Quite interesting - it says "your age group" (early 50s, but I am Type I diabetic with cancer treatment this year).
Nevertheless...
(And all the sites have the "Over 70s" glitch at present. Presumably there is also a glitch in the letter. Telephone it is, then. I blame Canada.)
I have my appointment and so they are doing people in 60's which does not appear to be that slow to me.
What's going on?
Had we been a member and not been in the scheme how long until a new resolution was passed by QMV that said any COVID vaccine deliveries within the 28 nations should be delivered to the EU and then redistributed proportionally.
There's no way to succeed within the EU, everyone must fail.
Doing the most vulnerable doesn't stop you from doing others too if you have more stock. The limitation should be stock not effort. If you have more stock then put more effort in to use it.
And an Englishman did not say "the one thing we've gotten right"
*I'm a big fan of puerile usually in case anyone thought otherwise.
What seems to have happened is that in Scotland we have relied very heavily on the Health Boards whilst in England they have been much more willing to add additional capacity outwith the normal patterns to get this done.