Back to British politics for a change and a possible threat to Boris – politicalbetting.com
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For crying out loud, Mike: stop pandering to the loonies
The issue's clear. The country seems to love Johnson: but only like it loved Churchill in Jan 45. So the instant that threat's gone, they'll kick the fuckwit out.
This time's different, though. Johnson's stopped food arriving in Britain because - well, who the fuck knows? He promised the day after the Referendum he'd stay in the Single Market, even though only Commie dickheads supported the EU. And since then, not a single fucking deal he's negotiated gives us any kind of advantage we didn't have before.
So the instant we stop worrying about the thousands of unnecessary deaths his fuckwit chums have dumped on us, he'll be out - like the fuckwits who joined him in the fuckwittery of leaving the Single Market.
That's all anyone needs to know.
Johnson's obsession with never telling the truth if he can invent a lie is all well and good. But only fuckwits leave the Single Market: even the fucking Norwegians want to stay in, in spite of being both the thickest and richest people in Europe.
So we'll be back in the Single Market the moment we're not distracted by the biggest death toll in human memory
Something even the peabrained actuaries who infest this site would realise if they switched their pea brains on for a second.
SO STOP FUCKING HUMOURING THEM0 -
It does exist, through common law made by judges and through statute passed by Parliament and signed by the Monarch.Carnyx said:
A load of shite. If the constitution isn't written it doesn't exist, except in your fantasies and those of Mr Rees-Mogg.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.
The latter supreme over the former if in conflict0 -
Why do you go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about it if you could not care less?HYUFD said:
Did you vote Tory in 2019 when the Tories won a majority of 80? If not, I could not care lessIshmaelZ said:
Because, what, nobody would *really* care about other peoples' businesses being destroyed? I don't know whether it is you or HYUFD strengthens my resolve never ever to vote Conservative again more. We are well beyond the "see the back of Johnson and think again" stage.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:0 -
I’m not sure “Boris is all powerful” is a great argument if I’m honestHYUFD said:
No, the SC also confirmed Holyrood has no legal power to stop Brexit, only Westminster can do that.Carnyx said:
Bujt it gives priority to Scots law on matters handed up from the Scottish courts, as ytou should remember full well from the attempts of your party to close down democracy in the UK. And that matter is still untested.HYUFD said:
By definition the SC cannot ignore statute and the Scotland Act 1998 which reserves Union matters to WestminsterPhilip_Thompson said:
Potentially the Scotland Act but that question would no doubt end up in the Supreme Court.Alistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
If the Supreme Court rules that an advisory referendum is legal (it could but no guarantee of that) the idea that can be just ignored is ridiculous. Heck if the SNP win a majority it would be ridiculous not to have a referendum and it seems Boris and Gove know that deep down too.
That is why Boris was impotent with no Westminster majority, now with a Westminster majority of 80 Boris is all powerful0 -
Christ. You're desperate for a Scots indyref2 so they vote YES so you can blame the break-up of the Union on Brexit.Scott_xP said:
That is not trueHYUFD said:any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal
And you know it
This is pathological. There are treatments available.6 -
Never mind Brexit or Scottish independence, there is only one topic of importance at the moment...
Vaccinations - what's the latest?1 -
But an advisory referendum boycotted by the pro-Union parties which produces a 75% - 80% Yes vote on a 45% turnout will carry little weight at all.RochdalePioneers said:Advisory referendums are legal. As demonstrated in 2016.
If Scotland holds such a referendum, and votes for Independence, we then get to enjoy English Tories telling us why the opinion of voters to leave can be discarded and ignored.
Should be a laugh.1 -
The daily updates failed to go the distance of a week?Benpointer said:Never mind Brexit or Scottish independence, there is only one topic of importance at the moment...
Vaccinations - what's the latest?0 -
Good...roughly 285k done yesterday. Over 3 million total.Benpointer said:Never mind Brexit or Scottish independence, there is only one topic of importance at the moment...
Vaccinations - what's the latest?
3.8 million new doses ready for next week. 23 million ready for bottling.
All oldies in care hones should have had their first doses in next few days.
I would hope come end of next week be doing more than 350k+ / day.2 -
I think in such a situation, the benchmark for Yes would be to get more votes than No received in 2014.justin124 said:
But an advisory referendum boycotted by the pro-Union parties which produces a 75% - 80% Yes vote on a 45% turnout will carry little weight at all.RochdalePioneers said:Advisory referendums are legal. As demonstrated in 2016.
If Scotland holds such a referendum, and votes for Independence, we then get to enjoy English Tories telling us why the opinion of voters to leave can be discarded and ignored.
Should be a laugh.0 -
We left the EU as the result of a none binding advisory referendum.Leon said:
Christ. You're desperate for a Scots indyref2 so they vote YES so you can blame the break-up of the Union on Brexit.Scott_xP said:
That is not trueHYUFD said:any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal
And you know it
This is pathological. There are treatments available.1 -
Will you be there? Crossing the Rio Grande?Mexicanpete said:
If you think that, you are mistaken, and you could well wind up commanding one of HYUFD's tank squadrons in the forthcoming invasion.geoffw said:
Or not, as the case may be.Mexicanpete said:
It's like @Richard_Tyndall said down thread, Nippy wins the PR war, Nippy wins Independence, perhaps not immediately, but it's in the bag.geoffw said:
Probably not breaking any law. But pointless since (i) unionists would boycott it, (ii) the UK government would ignore it, and (iii) if a "victory" denied went to the law courts they would throw it out as ultra vires.Alistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
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"probs for the demersal and pelagic boys"Theuniondivvie said:
Yeah, well I've been warning of the threat to the seafood guys on here for a while. I also thought there would be probs for the demersal and pelagic boys as well but I didn't think BJ and his merry men would fuck it up quite so comprehensively.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:
From 'you lot' I think I prefer the 'tough luck, suck it up' argument over the 'these people just don't realise what a GREEEAAAT deal they have' one, at least it's cutting out the bullshit.
Where the fuck do you get this faux-laddish, I'm-down-with-the-kidz-yet-also-highbrow patois. Jesus FC.
CRINGE0 -
I am merely chronicling the current state of affairs.Leon said:You're desperate for a Scots indyref2 so they vote YES so you can blame the break-up of the Union on Brexit.
Nobody would be happier than me if BoZo and Nippy both fucked off right now and sanity returned to the Conservative and Unionist Party
But here we are...0 -
Even if the pro-Union parties boycott it, how confident are you that pro-Union *voters* will boycott it in such significant numbers?justin124 said:
But an advisory referendum boycotted by the pro-Union parties which produces a 75% - 80% Yes vote on a 45% turnout will carry little weight at all.RochdalePioneers said:Advisory referendums are legal. As demonstrated in 2016.
If Scotland holds such a referendum, and votes for Independence, we then get to enjoy English Tories telling us why the opinion of voters to leave can be discarded and ignored.
Should be a laugh.0 -
Presumably the argument would be that the constitution is a reserved matter and so even an advisory referendum would be ultra vires for the Scottish Parliament. Clearly the Scottish Parliament cannot legislate for Scottish independence, with or without a confirming referendum, unilaterally. The question is whether it is legal for the Scottish Parliament to authorize the expenditure of public money on an advisory referendum on a subject reserved to Westminster.Scott_xP said:
ExactlyAlistair said:What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?
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Just a wee point on your postFlanner said:For crying out loud, Mike: stop pandering to the loonies
The issue's clear. The country seems to love Johnson: but only like it loved Churchill in Jan 45. So the instant that threat's gone, they'll kick the fuckwit out.
This time's different, though. Johnson's stopped food arriving in Britain because - well, who the fuck knows? He promised the day after the Referendum he'd stay in the Single Market, even though only Commie dickheads supported the EU. And since then, not a single fucking deal he's negotiated gives us any kind of advantage we didn't have before.
So the instant we stop worrying about the thousands of unnecessary deaths his fuckwit chums have dumped on us, he'll be out - like the fuckwits who joined him in the fuckwittery of leaving the Single Market.
That's all anyone needs to know.
Johnson's obsession with never telling the truth if he can invent a lie is all well and good. But only fuckwits leave the Single Market: even the fucking Norwegians want to stay in, in spite of being both the thickest and richest people in Europe.
So we'll be back in the Single Market the moment we're not distracted by the biggest death toll in human memory
Something even the peabrained actuaries who infest this site would realise if they switched their pea brains on for a second.
SO STOP FUCKING HUMOURING THEM
We have a weekly Asda delivery and recently, as we do not go out, much bigger including more fruit and veg and we have not had anything missing from the orders, including this morning
So food shortages are not obvious to us at present0 -
You mean like the 2019 prorogation controversy?HYUFD said:
Constitutionally it is not.Philip_Thompson said:
Because Parliament is elected and power belongs in the people through their elected representatives.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.
The idea that you can ignore a segment of the population that votes to leave and keep them prisoners, in chains to the British state indefinitely, is pure poppycock.
What Westminster says goes1 -
Scott_xP said:
Spectacular whatabouteryBig_G_NorthWales said:Brexit went through Parliament
What legal weight did the Brexit referendum have?
None.
Legally the Brexit Referendum result could have been ignored, but the political willl to do that did not exist. An advisory Referendum held in defiance of Westminster would be a very different matter.Scott_xP said:
Spectacular whatabouteryBig_G_NorthWales said:Brexit went through Parliament
What legal weight did the Brexit referendum have?
None.1 -
0
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No one is denying that. If Nippy calls a Referendum and wins, Johnson is perfectly entitled to reject it. However it would look bad!HYUFD said:
s30 of the Scotland Act 1998 specifically reserves matters affecting the Union to be decided by Westminster and Westminster's approval alone is required for such matters.Mexicanpete said:
I am not sure you are correct.HYUFD said:
Of course he can, any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal and irrelevant as Madrid proved when it ignored the illegal referendum held by the Catalan governmentScott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
Don't forget the Brexit vote was advisory rather than binding.
I would imagine Nippy can do pretty much as she likes regarding plebiscite arrangements. Where she is hamstrung is that she can't legally declare UDI on the result.0 -
Ok thanks for that, sounds good. Where did you get the data? It's not showing here:FrancisUrquhart said:
Good...roughly 285k done yesterday. Over 3 million total.Benpointer said:Never mind Brexit or Scottish independence, there is only one topic of importance at the moment...
Vaccinations - what's the latest?
3.8 million new doses ready for next week. 23 million ready for bottling.
All oldies in care hones should have had their first doses in next few days.
I would hope come end of next week be doing more than 350k+ / day.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk0 -
Like the pilgrims in the Canterbury Tales we are joshing in the face of the plague so as not to think about it.Benpointer said:Never mind Brexit or Scottish independence, there is only one topic of importance at the moment...
Vaccinations - what's the latest?
0 -
Over 3 million vaccinated and ramping up fast. We're weeks away from turning the tide on this plague.Leon said:
"doing well"?!Philip_Thompson said:
Considering he's got a deal, multiple vaccines and is doing well in his job now why should he go imminently?kinabalu said:
But it used to be he should go when he'd delivered Brexit.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not doubt than Boris is a big factor and it is why when covid is on the wain I would like to see Rishi as PMFF43 said:It is impressive that the explosion in support for independence is so closely aligned with Boris Johnson's premiership.
TheScreamingEagles said:
This is starting to feel a bit like a journey towards the horizon.
How do you define this??
I find the Boris-hating Remainers and lefties quite tedious, but I would also struggle to pinpoint anything Boris has done "well".
It's a hideous plague. No one in the Western world, absent the antipodes, has done "well". The best that can be said for Boris is that he's not as boring as Starmer. That's it, really.3 -
Absolutely, Westminster's will at the time not to pass the Withdrawal Agreement or leave with No Deal was upheld by the Courts.TheScreamingEagles said:
You mean like the 2019 prorogation controversy?HYUFD said:
Constitutionally it is not.Philip_Thompson said:
Because Parliament is elected and power belongs in the people through their elected representatives.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.
The idea that you can ignore a segment of the population that votes to leave and keep them prisoners, in chains to the British state indefinitely, is pure poppycock.
What Westminster says goes
Only once Boris had a Tory majority was Brexit delivered and the WA passed by Westminster.0 -
To be fair this guy appears to accept there is a sudden crisis in fishing. He doesn't have any solutions. That's because there aren't any.
https://twitter.com/Douglas4Moray/status/13497276730403471390 -
Ooh, smarting from some previous dig are we?Leon said:
"probs for the demersal and pelagic boys"Theuniondivvie said:
Yeah, well I've been warning of the threat to the seafood guys on here for a while. I also thought there would be probs for the demersal and pelagic boys as well but I didn't think BJ and his merry men would fuck it up quite so comprehensively.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:
From 'you lot' I think I prefer the 'tough luck, suck it up' argument over the 'these people just don't realise what a GREEEAAAT deal they have' one, at least it's cutting out the bullshit.
Where the fuck do you get this faux-laddish, I'm-down-with-the-kidz-yet-also-highbrow patois. Jesus FC.
CRINGE
Stick to chipping away at your mediocre 'products', Mr Joined December 2020 Man.0 -
Westminster has the right - if no present intent - to repeal the 1997 Devolution Acts and to revert to the Status Quo Ante.Philip_Thompson said:
Because Parliament is elected and power belongs in the people through their elected representatives.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.
The idea that you can ignore a segment of the population that votes to leave and keep them prisoners, in chains to the British state indefinitely, is pure poppycock.1 -
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How does that fit with Ruthin resigning. Cause or effect?Philip_Thompson said:
The liftoff in Yes support clearly begins in the autumn of 2017 and continues from there.FF43 said:It is impressive that the explosion in support for independence is so closely aligned with Boris Johnson's premiership. It really takes off in the summer of 2019 and doesn't look back.
TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I would have loved to have seen the reaction of some remainers if the vote had been 48/52 the other way, and then a Tory government decided to leave the EU anyway since the referendum was just "advisory" not binding.Scott_xP said:
Spectacular whatabouteryBig_G_NorthWales said:Brexit went through Parliament
What legal weight did the Brexit referendum have?
None.1 -
Boris would not give a shit, it would look far worse for him if he allowed a referendum that risked him being the PM who lost the Union and he only has 6 Scottish MPs anyway.Mexicanpete said:
No one is denying that. If Nippy calls a Referendum and wins, Johnson is perfectly entitled to reject it. However it would look bad!HYUFD said:
s30 of the Scotland Act 1998 specifically reserves matters affecting the Union to be decided by Westminster and Westminster's approval alone is required for such matters.Mexicanpete said:
I am not sure you are correct.HYUFD said:
Of course he can, any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal and irrelevant as Madrid proved when it ignored the illegal referendum held by the Catalan governmentScott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
Don't forget the Brexit vote was advisory rather than binding.
I would imagine Nippy can do pretty much as she likes regarding plebiscite arrangements. Where she is hamstrung is that she can't legally declare UDI on the result.
1 -
If you stop being so embarrassing I actually, physically wince at your comments, you have a dealTheuniondivvie said:
Ooh, smarting from some previous dig are we?Leon said:
"probs for the demersal and pelagic boys"Theuniondivvie said:
Yeah, well I've been warning of the threat to the seafood guys on here for a while. I also thought there would be probs for the demersal and pelagic boys as well but I didn't think BJ and his merry men would fuck it up quite so comprehensively.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:
From 'you lot' I think I prefer the 'tough luck, suck it up' argument over the 'these people just don't realise what a GREEEAAAT deal they have' one, at least it's cutting out the bullshit.
Where the fuck do you get this faux-laddish, I'm-down-with-the-kidz-yet-also-highbrow patois. Jesus FC.
CRINGE
Stick to chipping away at your mediocre 'products', Mr Joined December 2020 Man.0 -
PROBS FOR THE DEMERSAL AND PELAGIC BOYS0
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Another non storyScott_xP said:And for our next grand fuckup...
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/13498243589786091560 -
LOL0
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Never mind Brexit, Asda have been incapable of having whatever I want actually in stock for a Long Time. So if they're fulfilling your orders thats pretty much miraculous.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a wee point on your postFlanner said:For crying out loud, Mike: stop pandering to the loonies
The issue's clear. The country seems to love Johnson: but only like it loved Churchill in Jan 45. So the instant that threat's gone, they'll kick the fuckwit out.
This time's different, though. Johnson's stopped food arriving in Britain because - well, who the fuck knows? He promised the day after the Referendum he'd stay in the Single Market, even though only Commie dickheads supported the EU. And since then, not a single fucking deal he's negotiated gives us any kind of advantage we didn't have before.
So the instant we stop worrying about the thousands of unnecessary deaths his fuckwit chums have dumped on us, he'll be out - like the fuckwits who joined him in the fuckwittery of leaving the Single Market.
That's all anyone needs to know.
Johnson's obsession with never telling the truth if he can invent a lie is all well and good. But only fuckwits leave the Single Market: even the fucking Norwegians want to stay in, in spite of being both the thickest and richest people in Europe.
So we'll be back in the Single Market the moment we're not distracted by the biggest death toll in human memory
Something even the peabrained actuaries who infest this site would realise if they switched their pea brains on for a second.
SO STOP FUCKING HUMOURING THEM
We have a weekly Asda delivery and recently, as we do not go out, much bigger including more fruit and veg and we have not had anything missing from the orders, including this morning
So food shortages are not obvious to us at present1 -
Crossing the Tweed.geoffw said:
Will you be there? Crossing the Rio Grande?Mexicanpete said:
If you think that, you are mistaken, and you could well wind up commanding one of HYUFD's tank squadrons in the forthcoming invasion.geoffw said:
Or not, as the case may be.Mexicanpete said:
It's like @Richard_Tyndall said down thread, Nippy wins the PR war, Nippy wins Independence, perhaps not immediately, but it's in the bag.geoffw said:
Probably not breaking any law. But pointless since (i) unionists would boycott it, (ii) the UK government would ignore it, and (iii) if a "victory" denied went to the law courts they would throw it out as ultra vires.Alistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
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We have cobbled it together from the regional announcements. Tweets / links on previous thread. England was 250k.Benpointer said:
Ok thanks for that, sounds good. Where did you get the data? It's not showing here:FrancisUrquhart said:
Good...roughly 285k done yesterday. Over 3 million total.Benpointer said:Never mind Brexit or Scottish independence, there is only one topic of importance at the moment...
Vaccinations - what's the latest?
3.8 million new doses ready for next week. 23 million ready for bottling.
All oldies in care hones should have had their first doses in next few days.
I would hope come end of next week be doing more than 350k+ / day.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk0 -
First replyFF43 said:To be fair this guy appears to accept there is a sudden crisis in fishing. He doesn't have any solutions. That's because there aren't any.
https://twitter.com/Douglas4Moray/status/1349727673040347139
https://twitter.com/Zarkwan/status/1349756695518588928?s=201 -
2
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Slightly unfair. Boris has done two things very well;Leon said:
"doing well"?!Philip_Thompson said:
Considering he's got a deal, multiple vaccines and is doing well in his job now why should he go imminently?kinabalu said:
But it used to be he should go when he'd delivered Brexit.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not doubt than Boris is a big factor and it is why when covid is on the wain I would like to see Rishi as PMFF43 said:It is impressive that the explosion in support for independence is so closely aligned with Boris Johnson's premiership.
TheScreamingEagles said:
This is starting to feel a bit like a journey towards the horizon.
How do you define this??
I find the Boris-hating Remainers and lefties quite tedious, but I would also struggle to pinpoint anything Boris has done "well".
It's a hideous plague. No one in the Western world, absent the antipodes, has done "well". The best that can be said for Boris is that he's not as boring as Starmer. That's it, really.
1 Undermine and scatter rivals for the crown over several years.
2 Whip up a storm in the Constipated Parliament of 2017-9, before triumphantly selling himself as the flax seeds the nation needs.
Both pretty tangental to running the country well. I'll give him the vaccine buying, though the focus on that doesn't excuse the number of dead people in the meantime. But he does politics well. Shame he's so useless at government.0 -
Might be different in England. Would be in Scotlandjustin124 said:Scott_xP said:
Spectacular whatabouteryBig_G_NorthWales said:Brexit went through Parliament
What legal weight did the Brexit referendum have?
None.
Legally the Brexit Referendum result could have been ignored, but the political willl to do that did not exist. An advisory Referendum held in defiance of Westminster would be a very different matter.Scott_xP said:
Spectacular whatabouteryBig_G_NorthWales said:Brexit went through Parliament
What legal weight did the Brexit referendum have?
None.0 -
Referencing Eskimo Nell, Mexican Pete!Mexicanpete said:
Crossing the Tweed.geoffw said:
Will you be there? Crossing the Rio Grande?Mexicanpete said:
If you think that, you are mistaken, and you could well wind up commanding one of HYUFD's tank squadrons in the forthcoming invasion.geoffw said:
Or not, as the case may be.Mexicanpete said:
It's like @Richard_Tyndall said down thread, Nippy wins the PR war, Nippy wins Independence, perhaps not immediately, but it's in the bag.geoffw said:
Probably not breaking any law. But pointless since (i) unionists would boycott it, (ii) the UK government would ignore it, and (iii) if a "victory" denied went to the law courts they would throw it out as ultra vires.Alistair said:
What Law would the Scottish Government be breaking by holding an advisory referendum on an arbitrary topic?Mortimer said:
You mean one legislated for in the only parliament with power to do so? Errr, F- in constitutional politics for you Scotty.Scott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
0 -
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In theory. In theory Westminster has the power to not just repeal the Fixed Term Parliament Act but to extend this current Parliament to being a Long Parliament that lasts twenty years.justin124 said:
Westminster has the right - if no present intent - to repeal the 1997 Devolution Acts and to revert to the Status Quo Ante.Philip_Thompson said:
Because Parliament is elected and power belongs in the people through their elected representatives.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.
The idea that you can ignore a segment of the population that votes to leave and keep them prisoners, in chains to the British state indefinitely, is pure poppycock.
Scrapping elections, especially scrapping elections because you think you'll lose them, is a very murky area.
If Westminster did that many would think the Scots justified to do a UDI at that point.0 -
Taking back control. 👍🏻Scott_xP said:0 -
Not political or point scoring but Asda have been exceptional throughout and certainly over the last six weeks have fulfilled our orders 100 %RochdalePioneers said:
Never mind Brexit, Asda have been incapable of having whatever I want actually in stock for a Long Time. So if they're fulfilling your orders thats pretty much miraculous.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a wee point on your postFlanner said:For crying out loud, Mike: stop pandering to the loonies
The issue's clear. The country seems to love Johnson: but only like it loved Churchill in Jan 45. So the instant that threat's gone, they'll kick the fuckwit out.
This time's different, though. Johnson's stopped food arriving in Britain because - well, who the fuck knows? He promised the day after the Referendum he'd stay in the Single Market, even though only Commie dickheads supported the EU. And since then, not a single fucking deal he's negotiated gives us any kind of advantage we didn't have before.
So the instant we stop worrying about the thousands of unnecessary deaths his fuckwit chums have dumped on us, he'll be out - like the fuckwits who joined him in the fuckwittery of leaving the Single Market.
That's all anyone needs to know.
Johnson's obsession with never telling the truth if he can invent a lie is all well and good. But only fuckwits leave the Single Market: even the fucking Norwegians want to stay in, in spite of being both the thickest and richest people in Europe.
So we'll be back in the Single Market the moment we're not distracted by the biggest death toll in human memory
Something even the peabrained actuaries who infest this site would realise if they switched their pea brains on for a second.
SO STOP FUCKING HUMOURING THEM
We have a weekly Asda delivery and recently, as we do not go out, much bigger including more fruit and veg and we have not had anything missing from the orders, including this morning
So food shortages are not obvious to us at present0 -
First of many suckers to realise that they have been conned. Up there with everyone in Norn.FF43 said:
Despite your snide comment, I do actually care for them. Losing your livelihood is devastating. The fact some fishermen were part-actors in their own destruction doesn't make that destruction any less tragic. It's worse than I was expecting and I never thought much of Brexit. These guys bought into the dream. Being taken for fools will make them feel even worse.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:
What we need is for the Government to have a marketing campaign South of the border.
Cheap Langstone and scallops works for me, though may need restaurants to re open, as I don't think many would cook at home.0 -
Earlier tonight you were praising Boris for getting as many as 6.HYUFD said:
Boris would not give a shit, it would look far worse for him if he allowed a referendum that risked him being the PM who lost the Union and he only has 6 Scottish MPs anyway.Mexicanpete said:
No one is denying that. If Nippy calls a Referendum and wins, Johnson is perfectly entitled to reject it. However it would look bad!HYUFD said:
s30 of the Scotland Act 1998 specifically reserves matters affecting the Union to be decided by Westminster and Westminster's approval alone is required for such matters.Mexicanpete said:
I am not sure you are correct.HYUFD said:
Of course he can, any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal and irrelevant as Madrid proved when it ignored the illegal referendum held by the Catalan governmentScott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
Don't forget the Brexit vote was advisory rather than binding.
I would imagine Nippy can do pretty much as she likes regarding plebiscite arrangements. Where she is hamstrung is that she can't legally declare UDI on the result.1 -
Of all the many many lame-arse arguments that Remoaners trot out, so they can - or could - hope to avoid the biggest democratic vote in British political history, this is the worst.eek said:
We left the EU as the result of a none binding advisory referendum.Leon said:
Christ. You're desperate for a Scots indyref2 so they vote YES so you can blame the break-up of the Union on Brexit.Scott_xP said:
That is not trueHYUFD said:any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal
And you know it
This is pathological. There are treatments available.
The government explicitly promised, in a letter sent to EVERYONE, that the vote would be final and decisive. YOUR vote, YOUR choice. ONCE in a generation.
Just to make things clear, the prime minister of the country said the same, in a speech.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2dEe7N3SA
"It will be your decision whether we remain in the EU, or whether we leave. It will be the FINAL DECISION. You, the British people, will decide. NOT politicians, NOT PARLIAMENT... Just YOU! And it will be the FINAL DECISION. The EU referendum will be a ONCE in a generation choice. An IN or OUT referendum. When the British people speak, their voice WILL be respected – NOT ignored. There will NOT BE another renegotiation and another referendum. Think very carefully, because THIS CHOICE CANNOT BE UNDONE. If you think we should leave – and LEAVE MEANS LEAVE – then campaign for that and vote for it..
The idea we could just ignore this vote, not enact it, demand that people vote again so they make the choice the elite want, is positively Trumpian. It is surreally stupid. It would have caused actual civil strife if the Remoaners had prevailed.3 -
Ok thanks.FrancisUrquhart said:
We have cobbled it together from the regional announcements. Tweets / links on previous thread. England was 250k.Benpointer said:
Ok thanks for that, sounds good. Where did you get the data? It's not showing here:FrancisUrquhart said:
Good...roughly 285k done yesterday. Over 3 million total.Benpointer said:Never mind Brexit or Scottish independence, there is only one topic of importance at the moment...
Vaccinations - what's the latest?
3.8 million new doses ready for next week. 23 million ready for bottling.
All oldies in care hones should have had their first doses in next few days.
I would hope come end of next week be doing more than 350k+ / day.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk
Is it too much to expect somebody in the government / civil service to collate those figures and update their website? Yes, apparently 😳0 -
Do it. Good.Philip_Thompson said:
Taking back control. 👍🏻Scott_xP said:0 -
Yay, finally BBC Scotland has been forced to notice the fishing 'problem'. Third of Scottish fishing boats forced to tie up at the moment.
Aberdeen Angus having serious problems also.0 -
-
Norn? No. Eventually they will realise they are in the ultimate sweet spot. In the EU Single Market but ALSO in the UK Single Market. They will soon prosper thereby. And violence will not return.Foxy said:
First of many suckers to realise that they have been conned. Up there with everyone in Norn.FF43 said:
Despite your snide comment, I do actually care for them. Losing your livelihood is devastating. The fact some fishermen were part-actors in their own destruction doesn't make that destruction any less tragic. It's worse than I was expecting and I never thought much of Brexit. These guys bought into the dream. Being taken for fools will make them feel even worse.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:
What we need is for the Government to have a marketing campaign South of the border.
Cheap Langstone and scallops works for me, though may need restaurants to re open, as I don't think many would cook at home.
Brexit actually makes Irish reunification less likely because it massively favour Ulster.1 -
What’s stopping UK nations having continual referendums? Presumably we can wake up tomorrow and Scotland can hold a referendum on rejoining the EU. Or Wales on employment law. Or Northern Ireland on rejecting the NI brexit protocol. All fine, because advisory etc.solarflare said:
Even if the pro-Union parties boycott it, how confident are you that pro-Union *voters* will boycott it in such significant numbers?justin124 said:
But an advisory referendum boycotted by the pro-Union parties which produces a 75% - 80% Yes vote on a 45% turnout will carry little weight at all.RochdalePioneers said:Advisory referendums are legal. As demonstrated in 2016.
If Scotland holds such a referendum, and votes for Independence, we then get to enjoy English Tories telling us why the opinion of voters to leave can be discarded and ignored.
Should be a laugh.
Where’s the end point here?1 -
I don't know if Zahawi, Hancock (and sure those who were part of the vaccine planning), but interesting the difference between this and many other government programmes...we see a decent jump in capacity and immediately its pushing for the next increased target, no let up, no resting on laurels and loads of data making it clear how different regions / arms of programme are doing.0
-
To clarify, 2.9 million vaccinations have been provided from December 8th to the end of yesterday - 2.1 million people have received one dose of vaccine, 400,000 people have received two doses of vaccine.Philip_Thompson said:
Over 3 million vaccinated and ramping up fast. We're weeks away from turning the tide on this plague.
Yesterday, 248,000 vaccinations were administered - 240,000 were first vaccinations and 8,000 or so second vaccinations.0 -
248k in England..another 16k in Scotland, 14k in Wales.stodge said:
To clarify, 2.9 million vaccinations have been provided from December 8th to the end of yesterday - 2.1 million people have received one dose of vaccine, 400,000 people have received two doses of vaccine.Philip_Thompson said:
Over 3 million vaccinated and ramping up fast. We're weeks away from turning the tide on this plague.
Yesterday, 248,000 vaccinations were administered - 240,000 were first vaccinations and 8,000 or so second vaccinations.1 -
Philip_Thompson said:
In theory. In theory Westminster has the power to not just repeal the Fixed Term Parliament Act but to extend this current Parliament to being a Long Parliament that lasts twenty years.justin124 said:
Westminster has the right - if no present intent - to repeal the 1997 Devolution Acts and to revert to the Status Quo Ante.Philip_Thompson said:
Because Parliament is elected and power belongs in the people through their elected representatives.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.
The idea that you can ignore a segment of the population that votes to leave and keep them prisoners, in chains to the British state indefinitely, is pure poppycock.
Scrapping elections, especially scrapping elections because you think you'll lose them, is a very murky area.
If Westminster did that many would think the Scots justified to do a UDI at that point.
Reverting to the arrangements which operated over a period of almost 300 years would hardly be that revolutionary - though it does not appear to be contemplated at present.That ,in itself, does not rule it out as an option under extreme circumstances in the future. Some of us do remember the Heath Government imposing Direct Rule by suspending Stormont in Spring 1972.Philip_Thompson said:
In theory. In theory Westminster has the power to not just repeal the Fixed Term Parliament Act but to extend this current Parliament to being a Long Parliament that lasts twenty years.justin124 said:
Westminster has the right - if no present intent - to repeal the 1997 Devolution Acts and to revert to the Status Quo Ante.Philip_Thompson said:
Because Parliament is elected and power belongs in the people through their elected representatives.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.
The idea that you can ignore a segment of the population that votes to leave and keep them prisoners, in chains to the British state indefinitely, is pure poppycock.
Scrapping elections, especially scrapping elections because you think you'll lose them, is a very murky area.
If Westminster did that many would think the Scots justified to do a UDI at that point.
As for UDI, were the SNP to do that . the pro-Union population would cease to accept the writ of Holyrood and would continue to follow Westminster. Administrative and civil chaos would ensue.1 -
On one hand, it clearly is a con. The UK electorate was promised something for nothing (£350 million a week with no real downsides, because blockchain and German car makers) and is getting nothing (tangible) for something.Foxy said:
First of many suckers to realise that they have been conned. Up there with everyone in Norn.FF43 said:
Despite your snide comment, I do actually care for them. Losing your livelihood is devastating. The fact some fishermen were part-actors in their own destruction doesn't make that destruction any less tragic. It's worse than I was expecting and I never thought much of Brexit. These guys bought into the dream. Being taken for fools will make them feel even worse.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:
What we need is for the Government to have a marketing campaign South of the border.
Cheap Langstone and scallops works for me, though may need restaurants to re open, as I don't think many would cook at home.
But the trouble with cons is that victims are incredibly reluctant to acknowledge that they have been conned. Which is why cons work.0 -
Problem with the death data today. That's why no update to that siteBenpointer said:
Ok thanks.FrancisUrquhart said:
We have cobbled it together from the regional announcements. Tweets / links on previous thread. England was 250k.Benpointer said:
Ok thanks for that, sounds good. Where did you get the data? It's not showing here:FrancisUrquhart said:
Good...roughly 285k done yesterday. Over 3 million total.Benpointer said:Never mind Brexit or Scottish independence, there is only one topic of importance at the moment...
Vaccinations - what's the latest?
3.8 million new doses ready for next week. 23 million ready for bottling.
All oldies in care hones should have had their first doses in next few days.
I would hope come end of next week be doing more than 350k+ / day.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk
Is it too much to expect somebody in the government / civil service to collate those figures and update their website? Yes, apparently 😳0 -
-
A UDI which would still be illegal without Westminster consent as it relates to the Union.Philip_Thompson said:
In theory. In theory Westminster has the power to not just repeal the Fixed Term Parliament Act but to extend this current Parliament to being a Long Parliament that lasts twenty years.justin124 said:
Westminster has the right - if no present intent - to repeal the 1997 Devolution Acts and to revert to the Status Quo Ante.Philip_Thompson said:
Because Parliament is elected and power belongs in the people through their elected representatives.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.
The idea that you can ignore a segment of the population that votes to leave and keep them prisoners, in chains to the British state indefinitely, is pure poppycock.
Scrapping elections, especially scrapping elections because you think you'll lose them, is a very murky area.
If Westminster did that many would think the Scots justified to do a UDI at that point.
See the Catalan UDI in 2017 too0 -
Risky though, could see much of the Red Wall return to Labour now Brexit is done if the Tories repeal the 48 hour weekScott_xP said:0 -
Was the circa 1775 UDI also illegal? Did Westminster consent to that?HYUFD said:
A UDI which would still be illegal without Westminster consent as it relates to the Union.Philip_Thompson said:
In theory. In theory Westminster has the power to not just repeal the Fixed Term Parliament Act but to extend this current Parliament to being a Long Parliament that lasts twenty years.justin124 said:
Westminster has the right - if no present intent - to repeal the 1997 Devolution Acts and to revert to the Status Quo Ante.Philip_Thompson said:
Because Parliament is elected and power belongs in the people through their elected representatives.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.
The idea that you can ignore a segment of the population that votes to leave and keep them prisoners, in chains to the British state indefinitely, is pure poppycock.
Scrapping elections, especially scrapping elections because you think you'll lose them, is a very murky area.
If Westminster did that many would think the Scots justified to do a UDI at that point.
See the Catalan UDI in 2017 too0 -
Er...stodge said:
To clarify, 2.9 million vaccinations have been provided from December 8th to the end of yesterday - 2.1 million people have received one dose of vaccine, 400,000 people have received two doses of vaccine.Philip_Thompson said:
Over 3 million vaccinated and ramping up fast. We're weeks away from turning the tide on this plague.
Yesterday, 248,000 vaccinations were administered - 240,000 were first vaccinations and 8,000 or so second vaccinations.
Even the out of date government website is showing 2,639,309 first dose + 428,232 second dose = 3,067,541 total by 12th January.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
I am looking for the 13th January update.1 -
No, it even fought a war to stop it and the American colonies were far larger than ScotlandTheScreamingEagles said:
Was the circa 1775 UDI also illegal? Did Westminster consent to that?HYUFD said:
A UDI which would still be illegal without Westminster consent as it relates to the Union.Philip_Thompson said:
In theory. In theory Westminster has the power to not just repeal the Fixed Term Parliament Act but to extend this current Parliament to being a Long Parliament that lasts twenty years.justin124 said:
Westminster has the right - if no present intent - to repeal the 1997 Devolution Acts and to revert to the Status Quo Ante.Philip_Thompson said:
Because Parliament is elected and power belongs in the people through their elected representatives.HYUFD said:
Our entire unwritten constitution is based on the supremacy of the elected Westminster Parliament and the statutes it passes and the Queen signsPhilip_Thompson said:
Our constitution is fungible and based on respect of the people who elect our Parliaments.HYUFD said:
We are a democracy not a Franco dictatorship.
The idea that you can ignore a segment of the population that votes to leave and keep them prisoners, in chains to the British state indefinitely, is pure poppycock.
Scrapping elections, especially scrapping elections because you think you'll lose them, is a very murky area.
If Westminster did that many would think the Scots justified to do a UDI at that point.
See the Catalan UDI in 2017 too0 -
Contrary view: I don't agree with Steve Baker on this (I think he's only read the tabloid headline of what Jonathan Van-Tam said, and not the very nuanced detail) but I'm glad that an opposing argument is being put up from the libertarian right by him, and the likes of Toby Young, on this. Even if it is a bit barking.
SAGE are ultra-conservative in their risk appetite and Boris Johnson is lazy.
Without this political pressure Boris might not ask the balanced questions and simply let too many measures drift on the statue books for too long, blind to the economic and political harm they are doing. Also it's good to have all the evidence tested from all angles. If all the libertarian right can come out with is easily dismissed claims then we know it's robust and just born of frustration but that tells us something too.
So like a barrister defending a hopeless case it's a necessary part of the system.3 -
Stodge stats are referring to just England.Benpointer said:
Er...stodge said:
To clarify, 2.9 million vaccinations have been provided from December 8th to the end of yesterday - 2.1 million people have received one dose of vaccine, 400,000 people have received two doses of vaccine.Philip_Thompson said:
Over 3 million vaccinated and ramping up fast. We're weeks away from turning the tide on this plague.
Yesterday, 248,000 vaccinations were administered - 240,000 were first vaccinations and 8,000 or so second vaccinations.
Even the out of date government website is showing 2,639,309 first dose + 428,232 second dose = 3,067,541 total by 12th January.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
I am looking for the 13th January update.0 -
I have just had a sortie to Waitrose in Market Harborough. Well stocked, good social distancing and the whole town as quiet as it gets.RochdalePioneers said:
Never mind Brexit, Asda have been incapable of having whatever I want actually in stock for a Long Time. So if they're fulfilling your orders thats pretty much miraculous.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Just a wee point on your postFlanner said:For crying out loud, Mike: stop pandering to the loonies
The issue's clear. The country seems to love Johnson: but only like it loved Churchill in Jan 45. So the instant that threat's gone, they'll kick the fuckwit out.
This time's different, though. Johnson's stopped food arriving in Britain because - well, who the fuck knows? He promised the day after the Referendum he'd stay in the Single Market, even though only Commie dickheads supported the EU. And since then, not a single fucking deal he's negotiated gives us any kind of advantage we didn't have before.
So the instant we stop worrying about the thousands of unnecessary deaths his fuckwit chums have dumped on us, he'll be out - like the fuckwits who joined him in the fuckwittery of leaving the Single Market.
That's all anyone needs to know.
Johnson's obsession with never telling the truth if he can invent a lie is all well and good. But only fuckwits leave the Single Market: even the fucking Norwegians want to stay in, in spite of being both the thickest and richest people in Europe.
So we'll be back in the Single Market the moment we're not distracted by the biggest death toll in human memory
Something even the peabrained actuaries who infest this site would realise if they switched their pea brains on for a second.
SO STOP FUCKING HUMOURING THEM
We have a weekly Asda delivery and recently, as we do not go out, much bigger including more fruit and veg and we have not had anything missing from the orders, including this morning
So food shortages are not obvious to us at present
Mrs Foxy has been redeployed again to covid ICU next week, I am still on the non-covid side, working on some of the nasty stuff that is now coming out of the woodwork from postponed appointments. It is good to be well stocked as quite likely to need to isolate again at some point...1 -
Pfizer vaccine causes death by acute immune thrombocytopenia
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/health/covid-vaccine-death.html0 -
Zahawi looks confident and plausible, and talks clearly and effectively. It may be bluster but he could be a Man to Watch.FrancisUrquhart said:I don't know if Zahawi, Hancock (and sure those who were part of the vaccine planning), but interesting the difference between this and many other government programmes...we see a decent jump in capacity and immediately its pushing for the next increased target, no let up, no resting on laurels and loads of data making it clear how different regions / arms of programme are doing.
If he nails the vaccine roll-out (and so far, so good) then.... who knows?
From a brutal Iraqi refugee background, he became a hugely successful and wealthy businessman. He also studied Chemical Engineering at UCL which does give one modest hope that he know his STEM-shit with this virus.
Hmm.....1 -
My 88 year old father-in-law got his first jab today in Somerset, having has a previous appointment for 22nd Dec cancelled due to supply issues.
Things are clearly gearing up.
As I said earlier, the vaccination roll-out is the only topic of importance at the moment.0 -
Wait, need to rewind a bit. Is Alex Salmond's position really that it was all a baseless witch hunt against him but also simultanepusly he wants to reveal activity so depraved by himself that he needs immunity from prosecution?
That's a bold strategy.0 -
Of course they will be happier! No nets to avoid soon, they can swim freely...Scott_xP said:3 -
I agree.Casino_Royale said:Contrary view: I don't agree with Steve Baker on this (I think he's only read the tabloid headline of what Jonathan Van-Tam said, and not the very nuanced detail) but I'm glad that an opposing argument is being put up from the libertarian right by him, and the likes of Toby Young, on this. Even if it is a bit barking.
SAGE are ultra-conservative in their risk appetite and Boris Johnson is lazy.
Without this political pressure Boris might not ask the balanced questions and simply let too many measures drift on the statue books for too long, blind to the economic and political harm they are doing. Also it's good to have all the evidence tested from all angles. If all the libertarian right can come out with is easily dismissed claims then we know it's robust and just born of frustration but that tells us something too.
So like a barrister defending a hopeless case it's a necessary part of the system.
1 -
"It is not yet known if the shot is linked to the illness."IshmaelZ said:Pfizer vaccine causes death by acute immune thrombocytopenia
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/health/covid-vaccine-death.html
1 -
He will be the PM who lost the Union. No hiding place.HYUFD said:
Boris would not give a shit, it would look far worse for him if he allowed a referendum that risked him being the PM who lost the Union and he only has 6 Scottish MPs anyway.Mexicanpete said:
No one is denying that. If Nippy calls a Referendum and wins, Johnson is perfectly entitled to reject it. However it would look bad!HYUFD said:
s30 of the Scotland Act 1998 specifically reserves matters affecting the Union to be decided by Westminster and Westminster's approval alone is required for such matters.Mexicanpete said:
I am not sure you are correct.HYUFD said:
Of course he can, any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal and irrelevant as Madrid proved when it ignored the illegal referendum held by the Catalan governmentScott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
Don't forget the Brexit vote was advisory rather than binding.
I would imagine Nippy can do pretty much as she likes regarding plebiscite arrangements. Where she is hamstrung is that she can't legally declare UDI on the result.1 -
As I've said, it's a slow ramp up. Every day, the number vaccinated will increase a little bit as we get better and better. Before you know it, we'll have half a million vaccinated in a day.FrancisUrquhart said:
Good...roughly 285k done yesterday. Over 3 million total.Benpointer said:Never mind Brexit or Scottish independence, there is only one topic of importance at the moment...
Vaccinations - what's the latest?
3.8 million new doses ready for next week. 23 million ready for bottling.
All oldies in care hones should have had their first doses in next few days.
I would hope come end of next week be doing more than 350k+ / day.
I wouldn't be surprised if - sometime in March - we hit the magic million number.
(Also worth remembering, we could well have Johnson & Johnson results next week, and Novavax a few weeks later.)0 -
Ah, ok, makes sense. ThanksFrancisUrquhart said:
Stodge stats are referring to just England.Benpointer said:
Er...stodge said:
To clarify, 2.9 million vaccinations have been provided from December 8th to the end of yesterday - 2.1 million people have received one dose of vaccine, 400,000 people have received two doses of vaccine.Philip_Thompson said:
Over 3 million vaccinated and ramping up fast. We're weeks away from turning the tide on this plague.
Yesterday, 248,000 vaccinations were administered - 240,000 were first vaccinations and 8,000 or so second vaccinations.
Even the out of date government website is showing 2,639,309 first dose + 428,232 second dose = 3,067,541 total by 12th January.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
I am looking for the 13th January update.0 -
Next up - cuckolds and loud rasping farts.....geoffw said:
Like the pilgrims in the Canterbury Tales we are joshing in the face of the plague so as not to think about it.Benpointer said:Never mind Brexit or Scottish independence, there is only one topic of importance at the moment...
Vaccinations - what's the latest?2 -
Not much to discuss about it really, at least until the end of Feb, when we can assess if it has worked, or not.Benpointer said:My 88 year old father-in-law got his first jab today in Somerset, having has a previous appointment for 22nd Dec cancelled due to supply issues.
Things are clearly gearing up.
As I said earlier, the vaccination roll-out is the only topic of importance at the moment.0 -
Ideally a situation like Switzerland who do have regular referendums accommodated - and in many cases mandated - by the constitution.Razedabode said:
What’s stopping UK nations having continual referendums? Presumably we can wake up tomorrow and Scotland can hold a referendum on rejoining the EU. Or Wales on employment law. Or Northern Ireland on rejecting the NI brexit protocol. All fine, because advisory etc.solarflare said:
Even if the pro-Union parties boycott it, how confident are you that pro-Union *voters* will boycott it in such significant numbers?justin124 said:
But an advisory referendum boycotted by the pro-Union parties which produces a 75% - 80% Yes vote on a 45% turnout will carry little weight at all.RochdalePioneers said:Advisory referendums are legal. As demonstrated in 2016.
If Scotland holds such a referendum, and votes for Independence, we then get to enjoy English Tories telling us why the opinion of voters to leave can be discarded and ignored.
Should be a laugh.
Where’s the end point here?
https://www.eda.admin.ch/aboutswitzerland/en/home/politik/uebersicht/direkte-demokratie.html
1 -
See link below, the push now to hit 500k / day by next week.rcs1000 said:
As I've said, it's a slow ramp up. Every day, the number vaccinated will increase a little bit as we get better and better. Before you know it, we'll have half a million vaccinated in a day.FrancisUrquhart said:
Good...roughly 285k done yesterday. Over 3 million total.Benpointer said:Never mind Brexit or Scottish independence, there is only one topic of importance at the moment...
Vaccinations - what's the latest?
3.8 million new doses ready for next week. 23 million ready for bottling.
All oldies in care hones should have had their first doses in next few days.
I would hope come end of next week be doing more than 350k+ / day.
I wouldn't be surprised if - sometime in March - we hit the magic million number.0 -
"Dr. Jerry L. Spivak, an expert on blood disorders at Johns Hopkins University, who was not involved in Dr. Michael’s care, said that based on Ms. Neckelmann’s description, “I think it is a medical certainty that the vaccine was related.”geoffw said:
"It is not yet known if the shot is linked to the illness."IshmaelZ said:Pfizer vaccine causes death by acute immune thrombocytopenia
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/health/covid-vaccine-death.html
“This is going to be very rare,” said Dr. Spivak, an emeritus professor of medicine. But he added, “It happened and it could happen again.” "1 -
Which is why he will refuse a vote. Until he departs Number 10. Everyone knows this.Tres said:
He will be the PM who lost the Union. No hiding place.HYUFD said:
Boris would not give a shit, it would look far worse for him if he allowed a referendum that risked him being the PM who lost the Union and he only has 6 Scottish MPs anyway.Mexicanpete said:
No one is denying that. If Nippy calls a Referendum and wins, Johnson is perfectly entitled to reject it. However it would look bad!HYUFD said:
s30 of the Scotland Act 1998 specifically reserves matters affecting the Union to be decided by Westminster and Westminster's approval alone is required for such matters.Mexicanpete said:
I am not sure you are correct.HYUFD said:
Of course he can, any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal and irrelevant as Madrid proved when it ignored the illegal referendum held by the Catalan governmentScott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
Don't forget the Brexit vote was advisory rather than binding.
I would imagine Nippy can do pretty much as she likes regarding plebiscite arrangements. Where she is hamstrung is that she can't legally declare UDI on the result.
The worst that can happen, as a result of this, is a constitutional crisis.... which he will happily hand over to his successor1 -
He won't if he refuses a legal indyref as long as he is PM or he will pass the ball to Starmer in 2024 who if he needs SNP support to become PM may have to concede with a devomax offer to try and win itTres said:
He will be the PM who lost the Union. No hiding place.HYUFD said:
Boris would not give a shit, it would look far worse for him if he allowed a referendum that risked him being the PM who lost the Union and he only has 6 Scottish MPs anyway.Mexicanpete said:
No one is denying that. If Nippy calls a Referendum and wins, Johnson is perfectly entitled to reject it. However it would look bad!HYUFD said:
s30 of the Scotland Act 1998 specifically reserves matters affecting the Union to be decided by Westminster and Westminster's approval alone is required for such matters.Mexicanpete said:
I am not sure you are correct.HYUFD said:
Of course he can, any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal and irrelevant as Madrid proved when it ignored the illegal referendum held by the Catalan governmentScott_xP said:
BoZo can't stop her holding a referendum with the same legal weight as the Brexit vote.Mortimer said:The Boris paradox for the Sturge is every day he is PM, support for Indy remains, but she won't get an IndyRef whilst he remains.
Don't forget the Brexit vote was advisory rather than binding.
I would imagine Nippy can do pretty much as she likes regarding plebiscite arrangements. Where she is hamstrung is that she can't legally declare UDI on the result.0 -
I am shocked I tell you, shocked to my core to find that within days of finally leaving the EU the social chapter stuff is being ripped up even though I seem to recall Johnson desperately telling Barnier he had no intention of lowering social and environmental standards and so why was the EU so worried about unfair competition across the Single Market?HYUFD said:
Risky though, could see much of the Red Wall return to Labour now Brexit is done if the Tories repeal the 48 hour weekScott_xP said:
2 -
Northern Ireland is aligning fast with the rest of Ireland and the EU, There is big disruption at the moment but there is a viable path for them if Ireland continues to be successful. I don't think there will be a sudden reunification but decisions taken in Dublin and Brussels will matter more in Belfast than what happens in London. Given Northern Ireland is a basket case under British rule, it may even be an improvementLeon said:
Norn? No. Eventually they will realise they are in the ultimate sweet spot. In the EU Single Market but ALSO in the UK Single Market. They will soon prosper thereby. And violence will not return.Foxy said:
First of many suckers to realise that they have been conned. Up there with everyone in Norn.FF43 said:
Despite your snide comment, I do actually care for them. Losing your livelihood is devastating. The fact some fishermen were part-actors in their own destruction doesn't make that destruction any less tragic. It's worse than I was expecting and I never thought much of Brexit. These guys bought into the dream. Being taken for fools will make them feel even worse.Philip_Thompson said:
Funny how you lot suddenly care about fishermen.FF43 said:
This is the point. The bridges are burnt; the boats are burnt. There is no way back. So the fishermen, for example, are utterly screwed. There is nothing the Johnson government can do for them, beyond tossing them some cash, and they don't seem to be too much up for that.BluestBlue said:
I guess that's it chaps, Brexit's over! Well done, Scott - what will you be wearing on Reunification Day next week?Scott_xP said:
What we need is for the Government to have a marketing campaign South of the border.
Cheap Langstone and scallops works for me, though may need restaurants to re open, as I don't think many would cook at home.
Brexit actually makes Irish reunification less likely because it massively favour Ulster.
Unionists will rightly feel they have no agency over what's happening to them, but hopefully they will accept it. That's the relatively benign scenario.0 -
What happened to today’s Covid stats?0
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Not that it matters any more, but that is just evidence that Cameron was a smarmy grandstanding creep. He had no authority to say that, it is completely at odds with the law and a complete denial of the doctrine of parliamentary SOVRANTEE.Leon said:
Of all the many many lame-arse arguments that Remoaners trot out, so they can - or could - hope to avoid the biggest democratic vote in British political history, this is the worst.eek said:
We left the EU as the result of a none binding advisory referendum.Leon said:
Christ. You're desperate for a Scots indyref2 so they vote YES so you can blame the break-up of the Union on Brexit.Scott_xP said:
That is not trueHYUFD said:any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal
And you know it
This is pathological. There are treatments available.
The government explicitly promised, in a letter sent to EVERYONE, that the vote would be final and decisive. YOUR vote, YOUR choice. ONCE in a generation.
Just to make things clear, the prime minister of the country said the same, in a speech.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2dEe7N3SA
"It will be your decision whether we remain in the EU, or whether we leave. It will be the FINAL DECISION. You, the British people, will decide. NOT politicians, NOT PARLIAMENT... Just YOU! And it will be the FINAL DECISION. The EU referendum will be a ONCE in a generation choice. An IN or OUT referendum. When the British people speak, their voice WILL be respected – NOT ignored. There will NOT BE another renegotiation and another referendum. Think very carefully, because THIS CHOICE CANNOT BE UNDONE. If you think we should leave – and LEAVE MEANS LEAVE – then campaign for that and vote for it..
The idea we could just ignore this vote, not enact it, demand that people vote again so they make the choice the elite want, is positively Trumpian. It is surreally stupid. It would have caused actual civil strife if the Remoaners had prevailed.0 -
Apparently problem with the death numberswilliamglenn said:What happened to today’s Covid stats?
https://twitter.com/PHE_uk/status/1349772301533925376?s=190 -
That was a political decision. Not a legal one.Leon said:
Of all the many many lame-arse arguments that Remoaners trot out, so they can - or could - hope to avoid the biggest democratic vote in British political history, this is the worst.eek said:
We left the EU as the result of a none binding advisory referendum.Leon said:
Christ. You're desperate for a Scots indyref2 so they vote YES so you can blame the break-up of the Union on Brexit.Scott_xP said:
That is not trueHYUFD said:any referendum without UK government and Westminster consent would be illegal
And you know it
This is pathological. There are treatments available.
The government explicitly promised, in a letter sent to EVERYONE, that the vote would be final and decisive. YOUR vote, YOUR choice. ONCE in a generation.
Just to make things clear, the prime minister of the country said the same, in a speech.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2dEe7N3SA
"It will be your decision whether we remain in the EU, or whether we leave. It will be the FINAL DECISION. You, the British people, will decide. NOT politicians, NOT PARLIAMENT... Just YOU! And it will be the FINAL DECISION. The EU referendum will be a ONCE in a generation choice. An IN or OUT referendum. When the British people speak, their voice WILL be respected – NOT ignored. There will NOT BE another renegotiation and another referendum. Think very carefully, because THIS CHOICE CANNOT BE UNDONE. If you think we should leave – and LEAVE MEANS LEAVE – then campaign for that and vote for it..
The idea we could just ignore this vote, not enact it, demand that people vote again so they make the choice the elite want, is positively Trumpian. It is surreally stupid. It would have caused actual civil strife if the Remoaners had prevailed.0 -
The figure for yesterday seems to be 278,000 nationally.Benpointer said:
Er...stodge said:
To clarify, 2.9 million vaccinations have been provided from December 8th to the end of yesterday - 2.1 million people have received one dose of vaccine, 400,000 people have received two doses of vaccine.Philip_Thompson said:
Over 3 million vaccinated and ramping up fast. We're weeks away from turning the tide on this plague.
Yesterday, 248,000 vaccinations were administered - 240,000 were first vaccinations and 8,000 or so second vaccinations.
Even the out of date government website is showing 2,639,309 first dose + 428,232 second dose = 3,067,541 total by 12th January.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare
I am looking for the 13th January update.
The point is that isn't 3 million people vaccinated - 428,000 have had both doses of vaccine and 2.2 million have had a single dose so it's 2.6 million who have actually been vaccinated.
As we have decided (apparently), the Pfizer vaccine doesn't need to be administered twice within three weeks, the figures of those deemed to have been fully vaccinated will go up.
I must admit I thought the other vaccines achieved maximum efficacy after two vaccinations but apparently I was either a) wrong or b) those manufacturing the vaccine are wrong or c) it's been deemed "better" to get some immunity for as many people as possible as quickly as possible.
I am still confused, however.
Does anyone know for long these vaccinations will bestow immunity? The flu vaccination is administered every year so will we have to go through the same with the Covid-19 vaccination?
I imagine in time the vaccines will be improved to provide longer-lasting and more effective immunity with a single vaccination which is all to the good so perhaps the next vaccination will provide two or three years protection.
I'm also wondering if Covid-19 will become the dominant virus strain in the future supplanting older viruses.0
This discussion has been closed.