Both Trump and Biden stage Georgia rallies on the eve of today’s Georgia runoffs – politicalbetting.
Options
Comments
-
Travelling Tabby seems to be updated.Carnyx said:
Do you7 have the link please?Gaussian said:Scottish case details are out, with some surprises. Among the worst affected now are Dumfries&Galloway and the Borders with case rates in the 400s and 500s. They had dropped to level 1 a couple weeks before Christmas ...
1 -
I heard that Thomas-Symonds was/is a highly regarded barrister.Stocky said:
Both Dodds and Thomas Symonds are held in the highest regard by Starmer I heard. Either possible successors.HYUFD said:
Dodds would certainly be far more capable of doing the job of PM than Rayner is, as would Thomas Symonds or virtually any other Labour frontbencherStocky said:
I disagree with you on Dodds. She is intellectually brilliant. I agree that isn`t everything but it`s a start. Raynor doesn`t even get past the starting pistol in my view.BannedinnParis said:Don't get me started on Dodds.
1 -
Being of limited ability doesn´t stop them from being snobs though, does it?Nigelb said:
How many do you find in the House of Commons, though ?HYUFD said:
Fair enough but you can walk down any housing estate in the country and find someone who left school at 16 with no GCSEs and had a baby, you can use them in an election broadcast, you do not need to make them your candidate to be PM!RochdalePioneers said:Angela Rayner is a success story the Labour Party should make more of. Left school at 16 with no GCSEs and a baby, became a carer then into the Labour Party via the union route. She talks northern, understands what its like to have nothing but responsibilities and no money. She could cut through to the ex-red wall.
But too many in the party hate her for saying Tony Blair changed her life.
And if we're being disparaging, there are plenty of slavish Tory loyalists on the backbenches already...
Though given their average IQ, not quite so many intellectual snobs.0 -
This could be a very early intimation of economic and possibly political processes to come on the island of Ireland.RochdalePioneers said:
Spar NI not having the same problems as Spar ROI dominates operations on the island...WhisperingOracle said:Rayner is very bright and quick, no question. She also conveys genuine warmth, which is a rare quality and invaluable among politicians.
Re; a post on Brexit below, the Tory lead will continue for now ; but only if there aren't too many days with these kinds of stories in the media, or if they fade after February/March.
"A growing number of retailers in the EU have decided they won’t deliver to Britain because of the new costs involved in sending packages after Brexit. Companies have said they are unwilling to register for VAT in the UK, with one Dutch firm calling the red tape “ludicrous”.
It comes as problems emerged with the first lorries to cross from Great Britain into Northern Ireland. Some food shipments did not have the correct paperwork, with waits of 10 hours at new border posts. Disruption means Sainsbury’s has reportedly lost around 700 product lines in NI – and the giant has been forced to stock goods from Spar."0 -
Damn it. I wanted to make that point!IanB2 said:
Demonstrably false, since the majority of Tory voters are over retirement age, and I will leave you to look up the date when GCSEs were introduced.HYUFD said:
The vast majority of Tory voters have more GCSEs than Rayner hasGallowgate said:
Please keep alienating vast swathes of your own voters. Thank you.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.
0 -
Alternatively, it's what all the bluffers claim.Theuniondivvie said:
Lol, just the level of fanboi detail I would expect on PB!BluestBlue said:Boris was right on the Upper Second / First borderline, and it came down to a philosophy viva that failed to get him across it
0 -
Or O Level equivalent and your point is also wrong, the age at which you were more likely to vote Tory than Labour was 39 in 2019IanB2 said:
Demonstrably false, since the majority of Tory voters are over retirement age, and I will leave you to look up the date when GCSEs were introduced.HYUFD said:
The vast majority of Tory voters have more GCSEs than Rayner hasGallowgate said:
Please keep alienating vast swathes of your own voters. Thank you.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.1 -
It is but competition is Public schoolboys only? V. few state schools teach Ancient Greek.HYUFD said:
Greats is a hard degree even if it most likely leads to academia unless you subsequently qualify in something else or as with Boris make writing your living as a journalistTheScreamingEagles said:
But it is an Oxford degree, I mean I thought about reading Greats at Oxford but I said no because I wanted to do a hard degree with a career pathway at the end of it.HYUFD said:
Boris did not read PPE, as mentioned earlier he read literae humanioresTheScreamingEagles said:
But like Boris Johnson she's read PPE at Oxford, so she must be very intelligent as per the Boris fanbois.BannedinnParis said:Don't get me started on Dodds.
She even obtained a first, so she's much more intelligent Boris Johnson, amIright?
Compare with Natural Sciences at Cambridge. Phalanxes of pimply, bespectacled youths from the old grammar schools/academies/frees and better comps. All with four As. At least.0 -
HYUFD said:
At least and they would all be more qualified to be PM than RaynerCarnyx said:
How many is a vast majority? 90%?HYUFD said:
The vast majority of Tory voters have more GCSEs than Rayner hasGallowgate said:
Please keep alienating vast swathes of your own voters. Thank you.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.
He said 90% at least have more GCSEs than Ms Rayner.IanB2 said:
Demonstrably false, since the majority of Tory voters are over retirement age, and I will leave you to look up the date when GCSEs were introduced.HYUFD said:
The vast majority of Tory voters have more GCSEs than Rayner hasGallowgate said:
Please keep alienating vast swathes of your own voters. Thank you.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.
I leave it to the mathematicians and philosophers, as my maths and mechanics A level is only Grade A, but certainly on the number line from say minus 1 to plus 20, you would place Ms Rayner at exactly the same point as the vast majority of Tory voters, i.e. the one with the round circle above it.0 -
oh there you are - re the 40,000 deaths a day. You were asking "who's the Cult".rcs1000 said:OK.
I've run the numbers on Georgia. I took the six counties with the largest vote margin for each candidate (using NYTimes):
- Fulton, DeKalb and Richmond for the Dems
- Forsyth, Hall and Cherokee for the Republicans
I then used electproject.github.io and looked at early voting turnout in 2020 and in 2021, to see where the biggest changes were.
Here you go:Result 2020 2000 2001 Change
Averaging it out, early voting turnout in Democrat areas fell 28% relative to November, and 38% in Republican areas. (And the most Democratic the county is, the smaller early voting turnout seems to be down.)
Fulton D +46 57.9 42.4 -27%
DeKalb D +67 60.8 46.6 -23%
Forsyth R +33 73.2 47.9 -35%
Hall R +43 61.3 37.6 -39%
Richmond D +37 51.6 33.9 -34%
Cherokee R +39 61.9 37.2 -40%
I think that makes the Democrats favourites to win both Senate seats.
WHO'S THE CULT???
Dear god man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVn6b9QQZeM0 -
Let's be fair. Schoolgirls also. A very good friend of mine was a Somerville classicist, both intelligent and - I stress however - hard-working. IIRC she and her chums acted in a performance of Aristophanes' Frogs in the original Greek.contrarian said:
It is but competition is Public schoolboys only? V. few state schools teach Ancient Greek.HYUFD said:
Greats is a hard degree even if it most likely leads to academia unless you subsequently qualify in something else or as with Boris make writing your living as a journalistTheScreamingEagles said:
But it is an Oxford degree, I mean I thought about reading Greats at Oxford but I said no because I wanted to do a hard degree with a career pathway at the end of it.HYUFD said:
Boris did not read PPE, as mentioned earlier he read literae humanioresTheScreamingEagles said:
But like Boris Johnson she's read PPE at Oxford, so she must be very intelligent as per the Boris fanbois.BannedinnParis said:Don't get me started on Dodds.
She even obtained a first, so she's much more intelligent Boris Johnson, amIright?
Compare with Natural Sciences at Cambridge. Phalanxes of pimply, bespectacled youths from the old grammar schools/academies/frees and better comps. All with four As. At least.0 -
But you aqre claiming that 90% of Tory voters have GCSEs?!HYUFD said:
Or O Level equivalent and your point is also wrong, the age at which you were more likely to vote Tory than Labour was 39 in 2019IanB2 said:
Demonstrably false, since the majority of Tory voters are over retirement age, and I will leave you to look up the date when GCSEs were introduced.HYUFD said:
The vast majority of Tory voters have more GCSEs than Rayner hasGallowgate said:
Please keep alienating vast swathes of your own voters. Thank you.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.0 -
The Tories were supportive of Labour spending right up until it went pop and were for lower taxes. They were happy with a bigger deficit than the one subsequently rebranded as the root of all evil. But they made it stick. This is the point. Labour must take a leaf.Philip_Thompson said:
The difference is that Brown screwing up and over-spending before the financial crisis hit meaning that there was still a mammoth structural deficit to be fixed a couple of years after the crisis had finished was absolutely accurate and truthful.kinabalu said:
For me, Labour must stop pulling punches. The Tories were ruthless in pinning the consequences of the Global Financial Crisis on the presiding Labour government. There is no reason not to return the favour now. The virus is not of this government's making but many aspects of their response have been a disgrace. The latest debacle - schools - yet again showcases the astonishing level of incompetence and lack of consideration. It's an unforgivable carry on. Impossible to defend. Trouble is, they are not really having to. Not from Labour anyway.Roger said:
I mentioned David because the only Labour figures I can remember making an impression in the last year have been Blair T and Milliband D. I have a lot of time for Ed's backroom abilities but the public aren't aware of them or him. Labour has become a one man band and a pretty unimpressive one of late. I don't think Starmer gets it. He can be wrong but he has to impress.WhisperingOracle said:
I'm agree with some of this, but I think it's Ed Miliband who's in fact marginally the brighter Miliband. He demolished Johnson in the Commons a couple of months ago, in the kind of Commons performance his brother didn't put on. His brother is also very bright for a politician and an excellent organiser and motivator, but Ed is probably the more innovative policymaker.Roger said:
I wish you were right. I fear it's more simple than that. I'd say there are two reasons for the current pollingJonathan said:IMO there are three things that determine current polling.
1) We are are still in the middle of a crisis, the govt gets the benefit of the doubt and 'rallying round' support. When the crisis ends, the reckoning will begin and questions will be asked about what comes next. Until then politics is suspended.
2) Labour were a loooooong way back in 2019 and the party is still dealing with the aftermath. There is a lot of ground to recover both internally and externally.
3) We are three years from a general election, after two recent elections and a chaotic period there is not yet a huge appetite from change.
1. 55% of the country feel sour about Brexit. Labour have now totally capitulated. Is there a single ex Labour voter who will be impressed by Starmer's damascene conversion? The man who fought this scourge for four years now appears to be it's most wholehearted supporter. If it's worth doing now why wasn't it when Mrs May suggested it? We could have avoided Johnson.
2. An invisible shadow cabinet. A shadow chancellor who has been given the chance of a lifetime is completely out of her depth and invisible. It all feeds in to the idea that Starmer lacks judgement.
He's got time but he needs advice badly. He could do a lot worse than getting Tony back on board or at least the brighter Milliband.
If Labour had called for schools not to reopen, and for the government to plan for this inevitability rather than leave it until they had already gone back for a day, they would be in a position to make hay. But they didn't, so they're not. I hope when the next shambles comes - as it surely will - this mistake is not repeated. Forget "national consensus" and "softly softly" we need a New Labour ready and willing to stick it to these bozos whenever the many chances arise.
Time to sharpen up the politics with some new and brutal talking points. Covid shambles = TORY shambles. Johnson can't hack it and he doesn't give a tinker's. Thousands of deaths in this country directly attributable to the mishandling of this crisis. The culprits mustn't get away with it. If we tolerate this god knows what will be next. Blood on their hands. Blood on HIS hands. C'mon. It's the truth so let's not be squeamish about saying it.
Labourites like you want to pretend the deficit was all the recession's fault while ignoring the fact we weren't in recession when Brown caused his pre-recession deficit - nor were we in recession when the 2010 election happened.
The Tories are simply right now just dealing with a global pandemic during the pandemic not years after it right now.
In doing so they have one advantage and one disadvantage here with this crisis c.f. the global crash.
The disadvantage is it's easier for the public to relate to a new virus than a malfunction in the wholesale financial markets. This makes it almost impossible to blame the government for the originating event and have it believed.
The advantage is that whilst the Labour government reacted well to the crash, the government's response to this crisis has been palpably poor in many areas - and this can be objectively demonstrated.0 -
Another tightening of restrictions in Valencia
Bars and restaurants to close at 5pm,
No more than four to a table
No more than 6 in family groups inside or out
Traveling outside community extended to 31/1
Plus a few more, ICU occupation with covid is at 30% so action being taken in good time similar restrictions in other Communities.0 -
Is there any other nation more obsessed with class than the British?
I find it a bit weird, even my Scottish boss said there's plenty of classism in Scotland, although that's more of an Edinburgh/Glasgow rivalry.0 -
Fair enough. V little ancient Greek in state schools when I was a lad, some Latin though.Carnyx said:
Let's be fair. Schoolgirls also. A very good friend of mine was a Somerville classicist, both intelligent and - I stress however - hard-working. IIRC she and her chums acted in a performance of Aristophanes' Frogs in the original Greek.contrarian said:
It is but competition is Public schoolboys only? V. few state schools teach Ancient Greek.HYUFD said:
Greats is a hard degree even if it most likely leads to academia unless you subsequently qualify in something else or as with Boris make writing your living as a journalistTheScreamingEagles said:
But it is an Oxford degree, I mean I thought about reading Greats at Oxford but I said no because I wanted to do a hard degree with a career pathway at the end of it.HYUFD said:
Boris did not read PPE, as mentioned earlier he read literae humanioresTheScreamingEagles said:
But like Boris Johnson she's read PPE at Oxford, so she must be very intelligent as per the Boris fanbois.BannedinnParis said:Don't get me started on Dodds.
She even obtained a first, so she's much more intelligent Boris Johnson, amIright?
Compare with Natural Sciences at Cambridge. Phalanxes of pimply, bespectacled youths from the old grammar schools/academies/frees and better comps. All with four As. At least.0 -
HYUFD is like the Pope and never wrong, he's infallible.Carnyx said:
But you aqre claiming that 90% of Tory voters have GCSEs?!HYUFD said:
Or O Level equivalent and your point is also wrong, the age at which you were more likely to vote Tory than Labour was 39 in 2019IanB2 said:
Demonstrably false, since the majority of Tory voters are over retirement age, and I will leave you to look up the date when GCSEs were introduced.HYUFD said:
The vast majority of Tory voters have more GCSEs than Rayner hasGallowgate said:
Please keep alienating vast swathes of your own voters. Thank you.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.
They have do have some differences though one believes in a deity than can do no wrong, whilst the other is the Pope.1 -
Lab was spending far too much in the run up to the GFC. It was the era of self-certifying mortgages and @kinabalu -type City bonuses where fiscal receipts were through the roof.kinabalu said:
The Tories were supportive of Labour spending right up until it went pop and were for lower taxes. They were happy with a bigger deficit than the one subsequently rebranded as the root of all evil. But they made it stick. This is the point. Labour must take a leaf.Philip_Thompson said:
The difference is that Brown screwing up and over-spending before the financial crisis hit meaning that there was still a mammoth structural deficit to be fixed a couple of years after the crisis had finished was absolutely accurate and truthful.kinabalu said:
For me, Labour must stop pulling punches. The Tories were ruthless in pinning the consequences of the Global Financial Crisis on the presiding Labour government. There is no reason not to return the favour now. The virus is not of this government's making but many aspects of their response have been a disgrace. The latest debacle - schools - yet again showcases the astonishing level of incompetence and lack of consideration. It's an unforgivable carry on. Impossible to defend. Trouble is, they are not really having to. Not from Labour anyway.Roger said:
I mentioned David because the only Labour figures I can remember making an impression in the last year have been Blair T and Milliband D. I have a lot of time for Ed's backroom abilities but the public aren't aware of them or him. Labour has become a one man band and a pretty unimpressive one of late. I don't think Starmer gets it. He can be wrong but he has to impress.WhisperingOracle said:
I'm agree with some of this, but I think it's Ed Miliband who's in fact marginally the brighter Miliband. He demolished Johnson in the Commons a couple of months ago, in the kind of Commons performance his brother didn't put on. His brother is also very bright for a politician and an excellent organiser and motivator, but Ed is probably the more innovative policymaker.Roger said:
I wish you were right. I fear it's more simple than that. I'd say there are two reasons for the current pollingJonathan said:IMO there are three things that determine current polling.
1) We are are still in the middle of a crisis, the govt gets the benefit of the doubt and 'rallying round' support. When the crisis ends, the reckoning will begin and questions will be asked about what comes next. Until then politics is suspended.
2) Labour were a loooooong way back in 2019 and the party is still dealing with the aftermath. There is a lot of ground to recover both internally and externally.
3) We are three years from a general election, after two recent elections and a chaotic period there is not yet a huge appetite from change.
1. 55% of the country feel sour about Brexit. Labour have now totally capitulated. Is there a single ex Labour voter who will be impressed by Starmer's damascene conversion? The man who fought this scourge for four years now appears to be it's most wholehearted supporter. If it's worth doing now why wasn't it when Mrs May suggested it? We could have avoided Johnson.
2. An invisible shadow cabinet. A shadow chancellor who has been given the chance of a lifetime is completely out of her depth and invisible. It all feeds in to the idea that Starmer lacks judgement.
He's got time but he needs advice badly. He could do a lot worse than getting Tony back on board or at least the brighter Milliband.
If Labour had called for schools not to reopen, and for the government to plan for this inevitability rather than leave it until they had already gone back for a day, they would be in a position to make hay. But they didn't, so they're not. I hope when the next shambles comes - as it surely will - this mistake is not repeated. Forget "national consensus" and "softly softly" we need a New Labour ready and willing to stick it to these bozos whenever the many chances arise.
Time to sharpen up the politics with some new and brutal talking points. Covid shambles = TORY shambles. Johnson can't hack it and he doesn't give a tinker's. Thousands of deaths in this country directly attributable to the mishandling of this crisis. The culprits mustn't get away with it. If we tolerate this god knows what will be next. Blood on their hands. Blood on HIS hands. C'mon. It's the truth so let's not be squeamish about saying it.
Labourites like you want to pretend the deficit was all the recession's fault while ignoring the fact we weren't in recession when Brown caused his pre-recession deficit - nor were we in recession when the 2010 election happened.
The Tories are simply right now just dealing with a global pandemic during the pandemic not years after it right now.
In doing so they have one advantage and one disadvantage here with this crisis c.f. the global crash.
The disadvantage is it's easier for the public to relate to a new virus than a malfunction in the wholesale financial markets. This makes it almost impossible to blame the government for the originating event and have it believed.
The advantage is that whilst the Labour government reacted well to the crash, the government's response to this crisis has been palpably poor in many areas - and this can be objectively demonstrated.
That was the problem. As most grown up Lab supporters who study these things appreciate.
I also get that given your stated Lab position you would be unable to admit this in a public forum but we both know you appreciate it also.0 -
1
-
Classics is well known to be an easy route into Oxbridge for public school duffers.contrarian said:
It is but competition is Public schoolboys only? V. few state schools teach Ancient Greek.HYUFD said:
Greats is a hard degree even if it most likely leads to academia unless you subsequently qualify in something else or as with Boris make writing your living as a journalistTheScreamingEagles said:
But it is an Oxford degree, I mean I thought about reading Greats at Oxford but I said no because I wanted to do a hard degree with a career pathway at the end of it.HYUFD said:
Boris did not read PPE, as mentioned earlier he read literae humanioresTheScreamingEagles said:
But like Boris Johnson she's read PPE at Oxford, so she must be very intelligent as per the Boris fanbois.BannedinnParis said:Don't get me started on Dodds.
She even obtained a first, so she's much more intelligent Boris Johnson, amIright?
Compare with Natural Sciences at Cambridge. Phalanxes of pimply, bespectacled youths from the old grammar schools/academies/frees and better comps. All with four As. At least.2 -
I know. When they go low we go "oh alright then."OnlyLivingBoy said:
Agreed 100%. We're too bloody nice, that's our problem!kinabalu said:
For me, Labour must stop pulling punches. The Tories were ruthless in pinning the consequences of the Global Financial Crisis on the presiding Labour government. There is no reason not to return the favour now. The virus is not of this government's making but many aspects of their response have been a disgrace. The latest debacle - schools - yet again showcases the astonishing level of incompetence and lack of consideration. It's an unforgivable carry on. Impossible to defend. Trouble is, they are not really having to. Not from Labour anyway.Roger said:
I mentioned David because the only Labour figures I can remember making an impression in the last year have been Blair T and Milliband D. I have a lot of time for Ed's backroom abilities but the public aren't aware of them or him. Labour has become a one man band and a pretty unimpressive one of late. I don't think Starmer gets it. He can be wrong but he has to impress.WhisperingOracle said:
I'm agree with some of this, but I think it's Ed Miliband who's in fact marginally the brighter Miliband. He demolished Johnson in the Commons a couple of months ago, in the kind of Commons performance his brother didn't put on. His brother is also very bright for a politician and an excellent organiser and motivator, but Ed is probably the more innovative policymaker.Roger said:
I wish you were right. I fear it's more simple than that. I'd say there are two reasons for the current pollingJonathan said:IMO there are three things that determine current polling.
1) We are are still in the middle of a crisis, the govt gets the benefit of the doubt and 'rallying round' support. When the crisis ends, the reckoning will begin and questions will be asked about what comes next. Until then politics is suspended.
2) Labour were a loooooong way back in 2019 and the party is still dealing with the aftermath. There is a lot of ground to recover both internally and externally.
3) We are three years from a general election, after two recent elections and a chaotic period there is not yet a huge appetite from change.
1. 55% of the country feel sour about Brexit. Labour have now totally capitulated. Is there a single ex Labour voter who will be impressed by Starmer's damascene conversion? The man who fought this scourge for four years now appears to be it's most wholehearted supporter. If it's worth doing now why wasn't it when Mrs May suggested it? We could have avoided Johnson.
2. An invisible shadow cabinet. A shadow chancellor who has been given the chance of a lifetime is completely out of her depth and invisible. It all feeds in to the idea that Starmer lacks judgement.
He's got time but he needs advice badly. He could do a lot worse than getting Tony back on board or at least the brighter Milliband.
If Labour had called for schools not to reopen, and for the government to plan for this inevitability rather than leave it until they had already gone back for a day, they would be in a position to make hay. But they didn't, so they're not. I hope when the next shambles comes - as it surely will - this mistake is not repeated. Forget "national consensus" and "softly softly" we need a New Labour ready and willing to stick it to these bozos whenever the many chances arise.
Time to sharpen up the politics with some new and brutal talking points. Covid shambles = TORY shambles. Johnson can't hack it and he doesn't give a tinker's. Thousands of deaths in this country directly attributable to the mishandling of this crisis. The culprits mustn't get away with it. If we tolerate this god knows what will be next. Blood on their hands. Blood on HIS hands. C'mon. It's the truth so let's not be squeamish about saying it.
But not any more. Or certainly not with me today. I'm craving cigarettes and fired up even further by a particularly high octane OJ video.1 -
I would suggest the vast majority of Tory voters have at least 1 GCSE or O Level or CSE equivalent, even at grade G, Rayner as I understand it has 0Carnyx said:HYUFD said:
At least and they would all be more qualified to be PM than RaynerCarnyx said:
How many is a vast majority? 90%?HYUFD said:
The vast majority of Tory voters have more GCSEs than Rayner hasGallowgate said:
Please keep alienating vast swathes of your own voters. Thank you.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.
He said 90% at least have more GCSEs than Ms Rayner.IanB2 said:
Demonstrably false, since the majority of Tory voters are over retirement age, and I will leave you to look up the date when GCSEs were introduced.HYUFD said:
The vast majority of Tory voters have more GCSEs than Rayner hasGallowgate said:
Please keep alienating vast swathes of your own voters. Thank you.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.
I leave it to the mathematicians and philosophers, as my maths and mechanics A level is only Grade A, but certainly on the number line from say minus 1 to plus 20, you would place Ms Rayner at exactly the same point as the vast majority of Tory voters, i.e. the one with the round circle above it.0 -
Really? What qualifications do you need?HYUFD said:
It isn't, the UK PM should have educational qualificationsMexicanpete said:
That is outrageously out-dated, not to say irrelevant.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.0 -
Oi! I resent that!contrarian said:
It is but competition is Public schoolboys only? V. few state schools teach Ancient Greek.HYUFD said:
Greats is a hard degree even if it most likely leads to academia unless you subsequently qualify in something else or as with Boris make writing your living as a journalistTheScreamingEagles said:
But it is an Oxford degree, I mean I thought about reading Greats at Oxford but I said no because I wanted to do a hard degree with a career pathway at the end of it.HYUFD said:
Boris did not read PPE, as mentioned earlier he read literae humanioresTheScreamingEagles said:
But like Boris Johnson she's read PPE at Oxford, so she must be very intelligent as per the Boris fanbois.BannedinnParis said:Don't get me started on Dodds.
She even obtained a first, so she's much more intelligent Boris Johnson, amIright?
Compare with Natural Sciences at Cambridge. Phalanxes of pimply, bespectacled youths from the old grammar schools/academies/frees and better comps. All with four As. At least.
I went to a sixth form college.0 -
Might explain Johnson's inability to master detail on any topic he addresses?YBarddCwsc said:
Classics is well known to be an easy route into Oxbridge for public school duffers.contrarian said:
It is but competition is Public schoolboys only? V. few state schools teach Ancient Greek.HYUFD said:
Greats is a hard degree even if it most likely leads to academia unless you subsequently qualify in something else or as with Boris make writing your living as a journalistTheScreamingEagles said:
But it is an Oxford degree, I mean I thought about reading Greats at Oxford but I said no because I wanted to do a hard degree with a career pathway at the end of it.HYUFD said:
Boris did not read PPE, as mentioned earlier he read literae humanioresTheScreamingEagles said:
But like Boris Johnson she's read PPE at Oxford, so she must be very intelligent as per the Boris fanbois.BannedinnParis said:Don't get me started on Dodds.
She even obtained a first, so she's much more intelligent Boris Johnson, amIright?
Compare with Natural Sciences at Cambridge. Phalanxes of pimply, bespectacled youths from the old grammar schools/academies/frees and better comps. All with four As. At least.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d10yMLRKAEskinabalu said:
I know. When they go low we go "oh alright then."OnlyLivingBoy said:
Agreed 100%. We're too bloody nice, that's our problem!kinabalu said:
For me, Labour must stop pulling punches. The Tories were ruthless in pinning the consequences of the Global Financial Crisis on the presiding Labour government. There is no reason not to return the favour now. The virus is not of this government's making but many aspects of their response have been a disgrace. The latest debacle - schools - yet again showcases the astonishing level of incompetence and lack of consideration. It's an unforgivable carry on. Impossible to defend. Trouble is, they are not really having to. Not from Labour anyway.Roger said:
I mentioned David because the only Labour figures I can remember making an impression in the last year have been Blair T and Milliband D. I have a lot of time for Ed's backroom abilities but the public aren't aware of them or him. Labour has become a one man band and a pretty unimpressive one of late. I don't think Starmer gets it. He can be wrong but he has to impress.WhisperingOracle said:
I'm agree with some of this, but I think it's Ed Miliband who's in fact marginally the brighter Miliband. He demolished Johnson in the Commons a couple of months ago, in the kind of Commons performance his brother didn't put on. His brother is also very bright for a politician and an excellent organiser and motivator, but Ed is probably the more innovative policymaker.Roger said:
I wish you were right. I fear it's more simple than that. I'd say there are two reasons for the current pollingJonathan said:IMO there are three things that determine current polling.
1) We are are still in the middle of a crisis, the govt gets the benefit of the doubt and 'rallying round' support. When the crisis ends, the reckoning will begin and questions will be asked about what comes next. Until then politics is suspended.
2) Labour were a loooooong way back in 2019 and the party is still dealing with the aftermath. There is a lot of ground to recover both internally and externally.
3) We are three years from a general election, after two recent elections and a chaotic period there is not yet a huge appetite from change.
1. 55% of the country feel sour about Brexit. Labour have now totally capitulated. Is there a single ex Labour voter who will be impressed by Starmer's damascene conversion? The man who fought this scourge for four years now appears to be it's most wholehearted supporter. If it's worth doing now why wasn't it when Mrs May suggested it? We could have avoided Johnson.
2. An invisible shadow cabinet. A shadow chancellor who has been given the chance of a lifetime is completely out of her depth and invisible. It all feeds in to the idea that Starmer lacks judgement.
He's got time but he needs advice badly. He could do a lot worse than getting Tony back on board or at least the brighter Milliband.
If Labour had called for schools not to reopen, and for the government to plan for this inevitability rather than leave it until they had already gone back for a day, they would be in a position to make hay. But they didn't, so they're not. I hope when the next shambles comes - as it surely will - this mistake is not repeated. Forget "national consensus" and "softly softly" we need a New Labour ready and willing to stick it to these bozos whenever the many chances arise.
Time to sharpen up the politics with some new and brutal talking points. Covid shambles = TORY shambles. Johnson can't hack it and he doesn't give a tinker's. Thousands of deaths in this country directly attributable to the mishandling of this crisis. The culprits mustn't get away with it. If we tolerate this god knows what will be next. Blood on their hands. Blood on HIS hands. C'mon. It's the truth so let's not be squeamish about saying it.
But not any more. Or certainly not with me today. I'm craving cigarettes and fired up even further by a particularly high octane OJ video.0 -
@HYUFD has conveniently drew the line at having GCSEs or equivalent.JohnLilburne said:
Really? What qualifications do you need?HYUFD said:
It isn't, the UK PM should have educational qualificationsMexicanpete said:
That is outrageously out-dated, not to say irrelevant.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.0 -
I don't know, nobody would claim that Bearsden was lower class than Wester Hailes. And the Byres Road is every bit as twee as Broughton Street or Newington. It's a geographical thing , like the States - East and West Coast separated by the great plains and arid deserts of West Lothian and Linlithgowshire, inhabited by pink sheep and giant water horses.TheScreamingEagles said:Is there any other nation more obsessed with class than the British?
I find it a bit weird, even my Scottish boss said there's plenty of classism in Scotland, although that's more of an Edinburgh/Glasgow rivalry.1 -
The problem with Classics degrees for above-average but not hugely so students like Boris Johnson, is often that they can provide an excellent grounding in important facets of our culture - and his speeches are still far better than Trump's , as a result ; but without qualifying cultural knowledge on what has changed since about the mid-nineteenth century , they can tend to lead to a somewhat smugly, arrogantly ahistorical perspective. Arguably this was the problem of the entire British ruling class for many years.1
-
The ones Churchill had.JohnLilburne said:
Really? What qualifications do you need?HYUFD said:
It isn't, the UK PM should have educational qualificationsMexicanpete said:
That is outrageously out-dated, not to say irrelevant.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.0 -
Obsessed by Oxford. Might mean you have one form of intelligence that meets their needs but it clearly lacks teaching any skills in planning and organizing, skilled understandable communications, leadership and common sense, but so what he went to Oxford.,HYUFD said:
And he has an Oxford degreeGallowgate said:
That's literally why you think Boris should be Prime Minister. Because he wins elections.HYUFD said:
The only qualification you need to be an MP is to win an election that does not mean you should automatically lead the countryGallowgate said:
She earns at least double the median salary. That's pretty good going for someone with no qualifications. I need to take a leaf out of her book.HYUFD said:
Yes but we do not make them PM otherwise you would give everyone walking down the street a go, Rayner has achieved no more than the average person on Epping High Street educationally and professionallySandyRentool said:
Why don't you celebrate the fact that despite a challenging start she has rolled her sleeves up, got on with it and achieved plenty? Isn't that what Tories tell us all to do?HYUFD said:
They are still qualifications so obviously count, Rayner left school with no qualifications at allCarnyx said:
Well, not everyone in the UK gets those qualifications. Some get Highers, some get Int Bac ... but perhaps those don't count.HYUFD said:
Well I would like the PM of the UK representing the country on the world stage and taking difficult decisions to at least have a few GCSEs and A Levels and ideally a degree as well and I would hope most sensible people would too, otherwise you may as well just pick the PM by lottery from people in the streetGallowgate said:
You are really quite the university and qualifications snob aren't you?HYUFD said:
Fair enough but you can walk down any housing estate in the country and find someone who left school at 16 with no GCSEs and had a baby, you can use them in an election broadcast, you do not need to make them your candidate to be PM!RochdalePioneers said:Angela Rayner is a success story the Labour Party should make more of. Left school at 16 with no GCSEs and a baby, became a carer then into the Labour Party via the union route. She talks northern, understands what its like to have nothing but responsibilities and no money. She could cut through to the ex-red wall.
But too many in the party hate her for saying Tony Blair changed her life.1 -
Angela Rayner obtained three fewer GCSEs/O Levels than John Major, just saying.1
-
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/travellers-must-show-negative-covid-test-to-enter-uk-bv3mw272m
International arrivals to Britain will have to present a negative coronavirus test as the government tries keep out new strains of the virus.
Passengers will be required to show a negative result obtained no more than 72 hours before departure, although measures could be even tighter and include a second test on arrival. Hauliers will be exempt from the restriction.
At present arrivals are required only to complete a passenger locator form and undergo quarantine if arriving from a country not on the government’s “travel corridor” list.0 -
Does a Blue Peter badge count?Gallowgate said:
@HYUFD has conveniently drew the line at having GCSEs or equivalent.JohnLilburne said:
Really? What qualifications do you need?HYUFD said:
It isn't, the UK PM should have educational qualificationsMexicanpete said:
That is outrageously out-dated, not to say irrelevant.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.1 -
When I was at Cambridge, it was Divinity that was considered the easy route in. (Divinity also had the advantage of having its faculty building right in the middle of town - much better than having to slog out to the Raised Faculty Building on Grange Road.)YBarddCwsc said:
Classics is well known to be an easy route into Oxbridge for public school duffers.contrarian said:
It is but competition is Public schoolboys only? V. few state schools teach Ancient Greek.HYUFD said:
Greats is a hard degree even if it most likely leads to academia unless you subsequently qualify in something else or as with Boris make writing your living as a journalistTheScreamingEagles said:
But it is an Oxford degree, I mean I thought about reading Greats at Oxford but I said no because I wanted to do a hard degree with a career pathway at the end of it.HYUFD said:
Boris did not read PPE, as mentioned earlier he read literae humanioresTheScreamingEagles said:
But like Boris Johnson she's read PPE at Oxford, so she must be very intelligent as per the Boris fanbois.BannedinnParis said:Don't get me started on Dodds.
She even obtained a first, so she's much more intelligent Boris Johnson, amIright?
Compare with Natural Sciences at Cambridge. Phalanxes of pimply, bespectacled youths from the old grammar schools/academies/frees and better comps. All with four As. At least.0 -
We?HYUFD said:
She most likely would but no election is certain and we cannot afford the risk of having her as PMStocky said:
Given that she as leader would be a gift for the Tories over Starmer I would have thought you`d be championing her HYUFD.HYUFD said:
Yes but we do not make them PM otherwise you would give everyone walking down the street a go, Rayner has achieved no more than the average person on Epping High Street educationally and professionallySandyRentool said:
Why don't you celebrate the fact that despite a challenging start she has rolled her sleeves up, got on with it and achieved plenty? Isn't that what Tories tell us all to do?HYUFD said:
They are still qualifications so obviously count, Rayner left school with no qualifications at allCarnyx said:
Well, not everyone in the UK gets those qualifications. Some get Highers, some get Int Bac ... but perhaps those don't count.HYUFD said:
Well I would like the PM of the UK representing the country on the world stage and taking difficult decisions to at least have a few GCSEs and A Levels and ideally a degree as well and I would hope most sensible people would too, otherwise you may as well just pick the PM by lottery from people in the streetGallowgate said:
You are really quite the university and qualifications snob aren't you?HYUFD said:
Fair enough but you can walk down any housing estate in the country and find someone who left school at 16 with no GCSEs and had a baby, you can use them in an election broadcast, you do not need to make them your candidate to be PM!RochdalePioneers said:Angela Rayner is a success story the Labour Party should make more of. Left school at 16 with no GCSEs and a baby, became a carer then into the Labour Party via the union route. She talks northern, understands what its like to have nothing but responsibilities and no money. She could cut through to the ex-red wall.
But too many in the party hate her for saying Tony Blair changed her life.0 -
Plus Major passed complex banking exams too to add to his 3 O LevelsTheScreamingEagles said:Angela Rayner obtained three fewer GCSEs/O Levels than John Major, just saying.
0 -
But Churchill went to Harrow, Harrow's a dump, they let in anyone if their parents are rich enough.IshmaelZ said:
The ones Churchill had.JohnLilburne said:
Really? What qualifications do you need?HYUFD said:
It isn't, the UK PM should have educational qualificationsMexicanpete said:
That is outrageously out-dated, not to say irrelevant.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.0 -
GOP are going to really need to churn out the rural votes today, they're well behind right now I think.0
-
Churchill passed Harrow and Sandhurst entrance exams and won prizes for History at the formerIshmaelZ said:
The ones Churchill had.JohnLilburne said:
Really? What qualifications do you need?HYUFD said:
It isn't, the UK PM should have educational qualificationsMexicanpete said:
That is outrageously out-dated, not to say irrelevant.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.0 -
Rayner passed exams on British Sign Language at a college and also to become a qualified social worker.HYUFD said:
Plus Major passed complex banking exams too to add to his 3 O LevelsTheScreamingEagles said:Angela Rayner obtained three fewer GCSEs/O Levels than John Major, just saying.
0 -
Surely Land Economy....??rcs1000 said:
When I was at Cambridge, it was Divinity that was considered the easy route in. (Divinity also had the advantage of having its faculty building right in the middle of town - much better than having to slog out to the Raised Faculty Building on Grange Road.)YBarddCwsc said:
Classics is well known to be an easy route into Oxbridge for public school duffers.contrarian said:
It is but competition is Public schoolboys only? V. few state schools teach Ancient Greek.HYUFD said:
Greats is a hard degree even if it most likely leads to academia unless you subsequently qualify in something else or as with Boris make writing your living as a journalistTheScreamingEagles said:
But it is an Oxford degree, I mean I thought about reading Greats at Oxford but I said no because I wanted to do a hard degree with a career pathway at the end of it.HYUFD said:
Boris did not read PPE, as mentioned earlier he read literae humanioresTheScreamingEagles said:
But like Boris Johnson she's read PPE at Oxford, so she must be very intelligent as per the Boris fanbois.BannedinnParis said:Don't get me started on Dodds.
She even obtained a first, so she's much more intelligent Boris Johnson, amIright?
Compare with Natural Sciences at Cambridge. Phalanxes of pimply, bespectacled youths from the old grammar schools/academies/frees and better comps. All with four As. At least.0 -
She still has not obtained any GCSEs though as far as I can see, I am sure she would make a good sign language interpreter or carer, just not UK PMTheScreamingEagles said:
Rayner passed exams on British Sign Language at a college and also to become a qualified social worker.HYUFD said:
Plus Major passed complex banking exams too to add to his 3 O LevelsTheScreamingEagles said:Angela Rayner obtained three fewer GCSEs/O Levels than John Major, just saying.
0 -
I used to like modern artchitecture but that was a new one to me - it's so long ago since I explored the Uni buildings when visiting my chums there that I had to look it up. Amazingly that is not a typo. It really is called that because it is raised on concrete stilts. Apologies for doubting the accuracy of your typing.rcs1000 said:
When I was at Cambridge, it was Divinity that was considered the easy route in. (Divinity also had the advantage of having its faculty building right in the middle of town - much better than having to slog out to the Raised Faculty Building on Grange Road.)YBarddCwsc said:
Classics is well known to be an easy route into Oxbridge for public school duffers.contrarian said:
It is but competition is Public schoolboys only? V. few state schools teach Ancient Greek.HYUFD said:
Greats is a hard degree even if it most likely leads to academia unless you subsequently qualify in something else or as with Boris make writing your living as a journalistTheScreamingEagles said:
But it is an Oxford degree, I mean I thought about reading Greats at Oxford but I said no because I wanted to do a hard degree with a career pathway at the end of it.HYUFD said:
Boris did not read PPE, as mentioned earlier he read literae humanioresTheScreamingEagles said:
But like Boris Johnson she's read PPE at Oxford, so she must be very intelligent as per the Boris fanbois.BannedinnParis said:Don't get me started on Dodds.
She even obtained a first, so she's much more intelligent Boris Johnson, amIright?
Compare with Natural Sciences at Cambridge. Phalanxes of pimply, bespectacled youths from the old grammar schools/academies/frees and better comps. All with four As. At least.0 -
Duke of Edinburgh's?Carnyx said:
Does a Blue Peter badge count?Gallowgate said:
@HYUFD has conveniently drew the line at having GCSEs or equivalent.JohnLilburne said:
Really? What qualifications do you need?HYUFD said:
It isn't, the UK PM should have educational qualificationsMexicanpete said:
That is outrageously out-dated, not to say irrelevant.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.0 -
On Topic
What time does the PB Zoom Party start?0 -
Land Management was indeed always known as a related Tim-Nice-But-Dim classic.contrarian said:
Surely Land Economy....??rcs1000 said:
When I was at Cambridge, it was Divinity that was considered the easy route in. (Divinity also had the advantage of having its faculty building right in the middle of town - much better than having to slog out to the Raised Faculty Building on Grange Road.)YBarddCwsc said:
Classics is well known to be an easy route into Oxbridge for public school duffers.contrarian said:
It is but competition is Public schoolboys only? V. few state schools teach Ancient Greek.HYUFD said:
Greats is a hard degree even if it most likely leads to academia unless you subsequently qualify in something else or as with Boris make writing your living as a journalistTheScreamingEagles said:
But it is an Oxford degree, I mean I thought about reading Greats at Oxford but I said no because I wanted to do a hard degree with a career pathway at the end of it.HYUFD said:
Boris did not read PPE, as mentioned earlier he read literae humanioresTheScreamingEagles said:
But like Boris Johnson she's read PPE at Oxford, so she must be very intelligent as per the Boris fanbois.BannedinnParis said:Don't get me started on Dodds.
She even obtained a first, so she's much more intelligent Boris Johnson, amIright?
Compare with Natural Sciences at Cambridge. Phalanxes of pimply, bespectacled youths from the old grammar schools/academies/frees and better comps. All with four As. At least.0 -
My boss is an Posh Jock as he's from Edinburgh, home of classy places like the Caley, the fringe, and the castle.Carnyx said:
I don't know, nobody would claim that Bearsden was lower class than Wester Hailes. And the Byres Road is every bit as twee as Broughton Street or Newington. It's a geographical thing , like the States - East and West Coast separated by the great plains and arid deserts of West Lothian and Linlithgowshire, inhabited by pink sheep and giant water horses.TheScreamingEagles said:Is there any other nation more obsessed with class than the British?
I find it a bit weird, even my Scottish boss said there's plenty of classism in Scotland, although that's more of an Edinburgh/Glasgow rivalry.
Glasgow has places like Gorbals and Govan.0 -
My father went to Harrow, you still have to pass an entrance exam, even if it is not Winchester it is not Stowe eitherTheScreamingEagles said:
But Churchill went to Harrow, Harrow's a dump, they let in anyone if their parents are rich enough.IshmaelZ said:
The ones Churchill had.JohnLilburne said:
Really? What qualifications do you need?HYUFD said:
It isn't, the UK PM should have educational qualificationsMexicanpete said:
That is outrageously out-dated, not to say irrelevant.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.0 -
HYUFD said:
My father went to Harrow, you still have to pass an entrance exam even if it is not Winchester it is not Stowe eitherTheScreamingEagles said:
But Churchill went to Harrow, Harrow's a dump, they let in anyone if their parents are rich enough.IshmaelZ said:
The ones Churchill had.JohnLilburne said:
Really? What qualifications do you need?HYUFD said:
It isn't, the UK PM should have educational qualificationsMexicanpete said:
That is outrageously out-dated, not to say irrelevant.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.
Nope. The ones Valerie et al on BBC TV used to send out to deserving children and may still do.contrarian said:
Duke of Edinburgh's?Carnyx said:
Does a Blue Peter badge count?Gallowgate said:
@HYUFD has conveniently drew the line at having GCSEs or equivalent.JohnLilburne said:
Really? What qualifications do you need?HYUFD said:
It isn't, the UK PM should have educational qualificationsMexicanpete said:
That is outrageously out-dated, not to say irrelevant.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.0 -
You needed big lungs, arms and legs for Land Management.contrarian said:
Surely Land Economy....??rcs1000 said:
When I was at Cambridge, it was Divinity that was considered the easy route in. (Divinity also had the advantage of having its faculty building right in the middle of town - much better than having to slog out to the Raised Faculty Building on Grange Road.)YBarddCwsc said:
Classics is well known to be an easy route into Oxbridge for public school duffers.contrarian said:
It is but competition is Public schoolboys only? V. few state schools teach Ancient Greek.HYUFD said:
Greats is a hard degree even if it most likely leads to academia unless you subsequently qualify in something else or as with Boris make writing your living as a journalistTheScreamingEagles said:
But it is an Oxford degree, I mean I thought about reading Greats at Oxford but I said no because I wanted to do a hard degree with a career pathway at the end of it.HYUFD said:
Boris did not read PPE, as mentioned earlier he read literae humanioresTheScreamingEagles said:
But like Boris Johnson she's read PPE at Oxford, so she must be very intelligent as per the Boris fanbois.BannedinnParis said:Don't get me started on Dodds.
She even obtained a first, so she's much more intelligent Boris Johnson, amIright?
Compare with Natural Sciences at Cambridge. Phalanxes of pimply, bespectacled youths from the old grammar schools/academies/frees and better comps. All with four As. At least.0 -
One of the most intelligent and successful businessman I know read Economics & Land Economy at Sidney.WhisperingOracle said:
Land Management was indeed always known as a related Tim-Nice-But-Dim classic.contrarian said:
Surely Land Economy....??rcs1000 said:
When I was at Cambridge, it was Divinity that was considered the easy route in. (Divinity also had the advantage of having its faculty building right in the middle of town - much better than having to slog out to the Raised Faculty Building on Grange Road.)YBarddCwsc said:
Classics is well known to be an easy route into Oxbridge for public school duffers.contrarian said:
It is but competition is Public schoolboys only? V. few state schools teach Ancient Greek.HYUFD said:
Greats is a hard degree even if it most likely leads to academia unless you subsequently qualify in something else or as with Boris make writing your living as a journalistTheScreamingEagles said:
But it is an Oxford degree, I mean I thought about reading Greats at Oxford but I said no because I wanted to do a hard degree with a career pathway at the end of it.HYUFD said:
Boris did not read PPE, as mentioned earlier he read literae humanioresTheScreamingEagles said:
But like Boris Johnson she's read PPE at Oxford, so she must be very intelligent as per the Boris fanbois.BannedinnParis said:Don't get me started on Dodds.
She even obtained a first, so she's much more intelligent Boris Johnson, amIright?
Compare with Natural Sciences at Cambridge. Phalanxes of pimply, bespectacled youths from the old grammar schools/academies/frees and better comps. All with four As. At least.0 -
Or Tim rather-good-at-rugby.WhisperingOracle said:
Land Management was indeed always known as a related Tim-Nice-But-Dim classic.contrarian said:
Surely Land Economy....??rcs1000 said:
When I was at Cambridge, it was Divinity that was considered the easy route in. (Divinity also had the advantage of having its faculty building right in the middle of town - much better than having to slog out to the Raised Faculty Building on Grange Road.)YBarddCwsc said:
Classics is well known to be an easy route into Oxbridge for public school duffers.contrarian said:
It is but competition is Public schoolboys only? V. few state schools teach Ancient Greek.HYUFD said:
Greats is a hard degree even if it most likely leads to academia unless you subsequently qualify in something else or as with Boris make writing your living as a journalistTheScreamingEagles said:
But it is an Oxford degree, I mean I thought about reading Greats at Oxford but I said no because I wanted to do a hard degree with a career pathway at the end of it.HYUFD said:
Boris did not read PPE, as mentioned earlier he read literae humanioresTheScreamingEagles said:
But like Boris Johnson she's read PPE at Oxford, so she must be very intelligent as per the Boris fanbois.BannedinnParis said:Don't get me started on Dodds.
She even obtained a first, so she's much more intelligent Boris Johnson, amIright?
Compare with Natural Sciences at Cambridge. Phalanxes of pimply, bespectacled youths from the old grammar schools/academies/frees and better comps. All with four As. At least.
3 -
You ought to ask him about Craigmillar and Wester Hailes!TheScreamingEagles said:
My boss is an Posh Jock as he's from Edinburgh, home of classy places like the Caley, the fringe, and the castle.Carnyx said:
I don't know, nobody would claim that Bearsden was lower class than Wester Hailes. And the Byres Road is every bit as twee as Broughton Street or Newington. It's a geographical thing , like the States - East and West Coast separated by the great plains and arid deserts of West Lothian and Linlithgowshire, inhabited by pink sheep and giant water horses.TheScreamingEagles said:Is there any other nation more obsessed with class than the British?
I find it a bit weird, even my Scottish boss said there's plenty of classism in Scotland, although that's more of an Edinburgh/Glasgow rivalry.
Glasgow has places like Gorbals and Govan.0 -
Trying for all three may be unrealistic.Stocky said:
For me it is an imperative that the PM of ANY country is very well educated, well qualified and of high intellect. Is that controversial?Gallowgate said:
You are really quite the university and qualifications snob aren't you?HYUFD said:
Fair enough but you can walk down any housing estate in the country and find someone who left school at 16 with no GCSEs and had a baby, you can use them in an election broadcast, you do not need to make them your candidate to be PM!RochdalePioneers said:Angela Rayner is a success story the Labour Party should make more of. Left school at 16 with no GCSEs and a baby, became a carer then into the Labour Party via the union route. She talks northern, understands what its like to have nothing but responsibilities and no money. She could cut through to the ex-red wall.
But too many in the party hate her for saying Tony Blair changed her life.
I have no issue holding our MPs to a higher standard as they collectively have power over us, and it's not unreasonable to have even higher expectations for someone seeking to be PM. They should be exceptional people.
If they are very young or old or lacking in formal education or relevant qualification or experience (whatever that means in this context) I dont think it unreasonable to require, in our minds, a bit of proof that they are up to the task.
However that doesn't preclude someone young, ancient or lacking in experience if I feel they demonstrate sufficient quality despite any lack, nor that someone who seems to fit on paper may not demonstrate that they are not good enough for it.
Someone may have left formal education at a young age but proven that their intellect, ability and judgement are sound and sufficient for the job.
In short, I think wariness is reasonable, but dont rule someone out.2 -
I've just texted him that, his reply 'The worst bits of Edinburgh are better than the best bits of Glasgow.'Carnyx said:
You ought to ask him about Craigmillar and Wester Hailes!TheScreamingEagles said:
My boss is an Posh Jock as he's from Edinburgh, home of classy places like the Caley, the fringe, and the castle.Carnyx said:
I don't know, nobody would claim that Bearsden was lower class than Wester Hailes. And the Byres Road is every bit as twee as Broughton Street or Newington. It's a geographical thing , like the States - East and West Coast separated by the great plains and arid deserts of West Lothian and Linlithgowshire, inhabited by pink sheep and giant water horses.TheScreamingEagles said:Is there any other nation more obsessed with class than the British?
I find it a bit weird, even my Scottish boss said there's plenty of classism in Scotland, although that's more of an Edinburgh/Glasgow rivalry.
Glasgow has places like Gorbals and Govan.3 -
I think there's a lucrative market if it's pitched right -MarqueeMark said:
It works with those who already have the "Never Kissed A Tory " T-shirt.kinabalu said:
For me, Labour must stop pulling punches. The Tories were ruthless in pinning the consequences of the Global Financial Crisis on the presiding Labour government. There is no reason not to return the favour now. The virus is not of this government's making but many aspects of their response have been a disgrace. The latest debacle - schools - yet again showcases the astonishing level of incompetence and lack of consideration. It's an unforgivable carry on. Impossible to defend. Trouble is, they are not really having to. Not from Labour anyway.Roger said:
I mentioned David because the only Labour figures I can remember making an impression in the last year have been Blair T and Milliband D. I have a lot of time for Ed's backroom abilities but the public aren't aware of them or him. Labour has become a one man band and a pretty unimpressive one of late. I don't think Starmer gets it. He can be wrong but he has to impress.WhisperingOracle said:
I'm agree with some of this, but I think it's Ed Miliband who's in fact marginally the brighter Miliband. He demolished Johnson in the Commons a couple of months ago, in the kind of Commons performance his brother didn't put on. His brother is also very bright for a politician and an excellent organiser and motivator, but Ed is probably the more innovative policymaker.Roger said:
I wish you were right. I fear it's more simple than that. I'd say there are two reasons for the current pollingJonathan said:IMO there are three things that determine current polling.
1) We are are still in the middle of a crisis, the govt gets the benefit of the doubt and 'rallying round' support. When the crisis ends, the reckoning will begin and questions will be asked about what comes next. Until then politics is suspended.
2) Labour were a loooooong way back in 2019 and the party is still dealing with the aftermath. There is a lot of ground to recover both internally and externally.
3) We are three years from a general election, after two recent elections and a chaotic period there is not yet a huge appetite from change.
1. 55% of the country feel sour about Brexit. Labour have now totally capitulated. Is there a single ex Labour voter who will be impressed by Starmer's damascene conversion? The man who fought this scourge for four years now appears to be it's most wholehearted supporter. If it's worth doing now why wasn't it when Mrs May suggested it? We could have avoided Johnson.
2. An invisible shadow cabinet. A shadow chancellor who has been given the chance of a lifetime is completely out of her depth and invisible. It all feeds in to the idea that Starmer lacks judgement.
He's got time but he needs advice badly. He could do a lot worse than getting Tony back on board or at least the brighter Milliband.
If Labour had called for schools not to reopen, and for the government to plan for this inevitability rather than leave it until they had already gone back for a day, they would be in a position to make hay. But they didn't, so they're not. I hope when the next shambles comes - as it surely will - this mistake is not repeated. Forget "national consensus" and "softly softly" we need a New Labour ready and willing to stick it to these bozos whenever the many chances arise.
Time to sharpen up the politics with some new and brutal talking points. Covid shambles = TORY shambles. Johnson can't hack it and he doesn't give a tinker's. Thousands of deaths in this country directly attributable to the mishandling of this crisis. The culprits mustn't get away with it. If we tolerate this god knows what will be next. Blood on their hands. Blood on HIS hands. C'mon. It's the truth so let's not be squeamish about saying it.
Parents with school-age kids see a Labour Party as dysfunctional as the Government. All over the shop on school closures, from Starmer down.
The rest just see granny getting the jab and think "fair does".
"What sort of Prime Minister do we have? I'll tell you. We have one who knew 2 weeks ago that schools could not safely reopen. Knew this for a fact. Yet instead of communicating this and planning for it he chose to sow chaos and confusion for parents, teachers and children alike by forcing them to open for one day only as if it were the Boxing Day sales. And he did this purely to try to dupe parents into believing he was fighting for their children's education. Oh and why were teachers ignored? Because they don't vote Tory. That's why. This is an absolute scandal and the man responsible, the man opposite, must resign."
If Labour had made a clear and early call for schools to close we could have had something like this from Starmer at PMQs.1 -
Is there anywhere in either worse than Cumbernauld? Because I wouldn't want to go there.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've just texted him that, his reply 'The worst bits of Edinburgh are better than the best bits of Glasgow.'Carnyx said:
You ought to ask him about Craigmillar and Wester Hailes!TheScreamingEagles said:
My boss is an Posh Jock as he's from Edinburgh, home of classy places like the Caley, the fringe, and the castle.Carnyx said:
I don't know, nobody would claim that Bearsden was lower class than Wester Hailes. And the Byres Road is every bit as twee as Broughton Street or Newington. It's a geographical thing , like the States - East and West Coast separated by the great plains and arid deserts of West Lothian and Linlithgowshire, inhabited by pink sheep and giant water horses.TheScreamingEagles said:Is there any other nation more obsessed with class than the British?
I find it a bit weird, even my Scottish boss said there's plenty of classism in Scotland, although that's more of an Edinburgh/Glasgow rivalry.
Glasgow has places like Gorbals and Govan.0 -
Yeah. Johnson's a fucking twat but if Starmer can't find a way to oppose him meaningfully then why is he bothering. Every criticism will be countered with the fact that he supported the government. Time and again.kinabalu said:
No, I think there's a lucrative market if it's pitched right -MarqueeMark said:
It works with those who already have the "Never Kissed A Tory " T-shirt.kinabalu said:
For me, Labour must stop pulling punches. The Tories were ruthless in pinning the consequences of the Global Financial Crisis on the presiding Labour government. There is no reason not to return the favour now. The virus is not of this government's making but many aspects of their response have been a disgrace. The latest debacle - schools - yet again showcases the astonishing level of incompetence and lack of consideration. It's an unforgivable carry on. Impossible to defend. Trouble is, they are not really having to. Not from Labour anyway.Roger said:
I mentioned David because the only Labour figures I can remember making an impression in the last year have been Blair T and Milliband D. I have a lot of time for Ed's backroom abilities but the public aren't aware of them or him. Labour has become a one man band and a pretty unimpressive one of late. I don't think Starmer gets it. He can be wrong but he has to impress.WhisperingOracle said:
I'm agree with some of this, but I think it's Ed Miliband who's in fact marginally the brighter Miliband. He demolished Johnson in the Commons a couple of months ago, in the kind of Commons performance his brother didn't put on. His brother is also very bright for a politician and an excellent organiser and motivator, but Ed is probably the more innovative policymaker.Roger said:
I wish you were right. I fear it's more simple than that. I'd say there are two reasons for the current pollingJonathan said:IMO there are three things that determine current polling.
1) We are are still in the middle of a crisis, the govt gets the benefit of the doubt and 'rallying round' support. When the crisis ends, the reckoning will begin and questions will be asked about what comes next. Until then politics is suspended.
2) Labour were a loooooong way back in 2019 and the party is still dealing with the aftermath. There is a lot of ground to recover both internally and externally.
3) We are three years from a general election, after two recent elections and a chaotic period there is not yet a huge appetite from change.
1. 55% of the country feel sour about Brexit. Labour have now totally capitulated. Is there a single ex Labour voter who will be impressed by Starmer's damascene conversion? The man who fought this scourge for four years now appears to be it's most wholehearted supporter. If it's worth doing now why wasn't it when Mrs May suggested it? We could have avoided Johnson.
2. An invisible shadow cabinet. A shadow chancellor who has been given the chance of a lifetime is completely out of her depth and invisible. It all feeds in to the idea that Starmer lacks judgement.
He's got time but he needs advice badly. He could do a lot worse than getting Tony back on board or at least the brighter Milliband.
If Labour had called for schools not to reopen, and for the government to plan for this inevitability rather than leave it until they had already gone back for a day, they would be in a position to make hay. But they didn't, so they're not. I hope when the next shambles comes - as it surely will - this mistake is not repeated. Forget "national consensus" and "softly softly" we need a New Labour ready and willing to stick it to these bozos whenever the many chances arise.
Time to sharpen up the politics with some new and brutal talking points. Covid shambles = TORY shambles. Johnson can't hack it and he doesn't give a tinker's. Thousands of deaths in this country directly attributable to the mishandling of this crisis. The culprits mustn't get away with it. If we tolerate this god knows what will be next. Blood on their hands. Blood on HIS hands. C'mon. It's the truth so let's not be squeamish about saying it.
Parents with school-age kids see a Labour Party as dysfunctional as the Government. All over the shop on school closures, from Starmer down.
The rest just see granny getting the jab and think "fair does".
"What sort of Prime Minister do we have? I'll tell you. We have one who knew 2 weeks ago that schools could not safely reopen. Knew this for a fact. Yet instead of communicating this and planning for it he chose to sow chaos and confusion for parents, teachers and children alike by forcing them to open for one day only. And he did this purely to try to dupe parents into believing he was fighting for their children's education. Oh and why were teachers ignored? Because they don't vote Tory. That's why. This is an absolute scandal and the man responsible, the man opposite, must resign."
If Labour had made a clear and early call for schools to close we could have had something like this from Starmer at PMQs.1 -
Gorbals, before they flattened it a decade or so ago.Flatlander said:
Is there anywhere in either worse than Cumbernauld? Because I wouldn't want to go there.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've just texted him that, his reply 'The worst bits of Edinburgh are better than the best bits of Glasgow.'Carnyx said:
You ought to ask him about Craigmillar and Wester Hailes!TheScreamingEagles said:
My boss is an Posh Jock as he's from Edinburgh, home of classy places like the Caley, the fringe, and the castle.Carnyx said:
I don't know, nobody would claim that Bearsden was lower class than Wester Hailes. And the Byres Road is every bit as twee as Broughton Street or Newington. It's a geographical thing , like the States - East and West Coast separated by the great plains and arid deserts of West Lothian and Linlithgowshire, inhabited by pink sheep and giant water horses.TheScreamingEagles said:Is there any other nation more obsessed with class than the British?
I find it a bit weird, even my Scottish boss said there's plenty of classism in Scotland, although that's more of an Edinburgh/Glasgow rivalry.
Glasgow has places like Gorbals and Govan.0 -
BSL is not easy to do well and accurately if one is not born to it - it's logically equivalent to translating to and from ideogrammatic Chinese on the spot in real time with the added need to modify it emotively and kinematically. An interesting accomplishment for a politician, and by no means obviously inferior to being able to quote, say, Aristophanes.HYUFD said:
She still has not obtained any GCSEs though as far as I can see, I am sure she would make a good sign language interpreter or carer, just not UK PMTheScreamingEagles said:
Rayner passed exams on British Sign Language at a college and also to become a qualified social worker.HYUFD said:
Plus Major passed complex banking exams too to add to his 3 O LevelsTheScreamingEagles said:Angela Rayner obtained three fewer GCSEs/O Levels than John Major, just saying.
1 -
Breaking Bad meets Robin Hood....
He added: 'I do present this defendant as someone who is exceptional in his generosity of spirit. In his abandonment of profit and winning friends and bringing them into his home for their special benefit.
'His benevolence and his accepted skill in managing to source drugs wholesale and hold those sex parties for the pleasure of his friends, means the pleasure is the profit.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9114727/Former-BBC-producer-45-invited-friends-chemsex-parties.html0 -
Not possible until new boundaries are known!MarqueeMark said:
Anybody Baxtered that on new boundaries? Comfy Tory majority I assume?HYUFD said:
Yes, Brexit has been done and the Tories have been rewarded with a 5% lead as a resultGallowgate said:One for HY "Brexit Brexit Brexit" UFD:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1346401901861068806?s=20
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1346101605758881797?s=200 -
I feel the need to remind everyone that I did a PPE degree ***in my spare time***3
-
Even better. I have a healthy respect for people who achieved that as well as working for a living. I can't imagine doing that myself. Much better than wasting your time trying to game the Oxford Union elections.SandyRentool said:I feel the need to remind everyone that I did a PPE degree ***in my spare time***
0 -
Does that really work as a chat-up line, though?SandyRentool said:I feel the need to remind everyone that I did a PPE degree ***in my spare time***
3 -
HYUFD said:
With the boundary changes it would be Cons 320, Lab 205, SNP 53, LDs 2.MarqueeMark said:
Anybody Baxtered that on new boundaries? Comfy Tory majority I assume?HYUFD said:
Yes, Brexit has been done and the Tories have been rewarded with a 5% lead as a resultGallowgate said:One for HY "Brexit Brexit Brexit" UFD:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1346401901861068806?s=20
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1346101605758881797?s=20
So Tory majority of 40
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=43&LAB=38&LIB=4&Brexit=3&Green=5&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=19.3&SCOTLAB=19&SCOTLIB=5.7&SCOTBrexit=1&SCOTGreen=1.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=51.7&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbHYUFD said:
With the boundary changes it would be Cons 320, Lab 205, SNP 53, LDs 2.MarqueeMark said:
Anybody Baxtered that on new boundaries? Comfy Tory majority I assume?HYUFD said:
Yes, Brexit has been done and the Tories have been rewarded with a 5% lead as a resultGallowgate said:One for HY "Brexit Brexit Brexit" UFD:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1346401901861068806?s=20
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1346101605758881797?s=20
So Tory majority of 40
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=43&LAB=38&LIB=4&Brexit=3&Green=5&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=19.3&SCOTLAB=19&SCOTLIB=5.7&SCOTBrexit=1&SCOTGreen=1.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=51.7&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nb
But those 'new' boundaries have now been abandoned. Thet were based on 600 MPs.HYUFD said:
With the boundary changes it would be Cons 320, Lab 205, SNP 53, LDs 2.MarqueeMark said:
Anybody Baxtered that on new boundaries? Comfy Tory majority I assume?HYUFD said:
Yes, Brexit has been done and the Tories have been rewarded with a 5% lead as a resultGallowgate said:One for HY "Brexit Brexit Brexit" UFD:
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1346401901861068806?s=20
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1346101605758881797?s=20
So Tory majority of 40
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=43&LAB=38&LIB=4&Brexit=3&Green=5&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=19.3&SCOTLAB=19&SCOTLIB=5.7&SCOTBrexit=1&SCOTGreen=1.7&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=51.7&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nb0 -
Ha. No, this one below. The last 12 mins in particular. Funnily enough he is making essentially the same point you made a while ago. Labour should stop supporting this shambolic Tory government.TOPPING said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d10yMLRKAEskinabalu said:
I know. When they go low we go "oh alright then."OnlyLivingBoy said:
Agreed 100%. We're too bloody nice, that's our problem!kinabalu said:
For me, Labour must stop pulling punches. The Tories were ruthless in pinning the consequences of the Global Financial Crisis on the presiding Labour government. There is no reason not to return the favour now. The virus is not of this government's making but many aspects of their response have been a disgrace. The latest debacle - schools - yet again showcases the astonishing level of incompetence and lack of consideration. It's an unforgivable carry on. Impossible to defend. Trouble is, they are not really having to. Not from Labour anyway.Roger said:
I mentioned David because the only Labour figures I can remember making an impression in the last year have been Blair T and Milliband D. I have a lot of time for Ed's backroom abilities but the public aren't aware of them or him. Labour has become a one man band and a pretty unimpressive one of late. I don't think Starmer gets it. He can be wrong but he has to impress.WhisperingOracle said:
I'm agree with some of this, but I think it's Ed Miliband who's in fact marginally the brighter Miliband. He demolished Johnson in the Commons a couple of months ago, in the kind of Commons performance his brother didn't put on. His brother is also very bright for a politician and an excellent organiser and motivator, but Ed is probably the more innovative policymaker.Roger said:
I wish you were right. I fear it's more simple than that. I'd say there are two reasons for the current pollingJonathan said:IMO there are three things that determine current polling.
1) We are are still in the middle of a crisis, the govt gets the benefit of the doubt and 'rallying round' support. When the crisis ends, the reckoning will begin and questions will be asked about what comes next. Until then politics is suspended.
2) Labour were a loooooong way back in 2019 and the party is still dealing with the aftermath. There is a lot of ground to recover both internally and externally.
3) We are three years from a general election, after two recent elections and a chaotic period there is not yet a huge appetite from change.
1. 55% of the country feel sour about Brexit. Labour have now totally capitulated. Is there a single ex Labour voter who will be impressed by Starmer's damascene conversion? The man who fought this scourge for four years now appears to be it's most wholehearted supporter. If it's worth doing now why wasn't it when Mrs May suggested it? We could have avoided Johnson.
2. An invisible shadow cabinet. A shadow chancellor who has been given the chance of a lifetime is completely out of her depth and invisible. It all feeds in to the idea that Starmer lacks judgement.
He's got time but he needs advice badly. He could do a lot worse than getting Tony back on board or at least the brighter Milliband.
If Labour had called for schools not to reopen, and for the government to plan for this inevitability rather than leave it until they had already gone back for a day, they would be in a position to make hay. But they didn't, so they're not. I hope when the next shambles comes - as it surely will - this mistake is not repeated. Forget "national consensus" and "softly softly" we need a New Labour ready and willing to stick it to these bozos whenever the many chances arise.
Time to sharpen up the politics with some new and brutal talking points. Covid shambles = TORY shambles. Johnson can't hack it and he doesn't give a tinker's. Thousands of deaths in this country directly attributable to the mishandling of this crisis. The culprits mustn't get away with it. If we tolerate this god knows what will be next. Blood on their hands. Blood on HIS hands. C'mon. It's the truth so let's not be squeamish about saying it.
But not any more. Or certainly not with me today. I'm craving cigarettes and fired up even further by a particularly high octane OJ video.
https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/13461924701330186250 -
There was a lad in the year above me at Brum who got a place on a Masters at Oxford for some reason - Victor Ubogo.contrarian said:
Or Tim rather-good-at-rugby.WhisperingOracle said:
Land Management was indeed always known as a related Tim-Nice-But-Dim classic.contrarian said:
Surely Land Economy....??rcs1000 said:
When I was at Cambridge, it was Divinity that was considered the easy route in. (Divinity also had the advantage of having its faculty building right in the middle of town - much better than having to slog out to the Raised Faculty Building on Grange Road.)YBarddCwsc said:
Classics is well known to be an easy route into Oxbridge for public school duffers.contrarian said:
It is but competition is Public schoolboys only? V. few state schools teach Ancient Greek.HYUFD said:
Greats is a hard degree even if it most likely leads to academia unless you subsequently qualify in something else or as with Boris make writing your living as a journalistTheScreamingEagles said:
But it is an Oxford degree, I mean I thought about reading Greats at Oxford but I said no because I wanted to do a hard degree with a career pathway at the end of it.HYUFD said:
Boris did not read PPE, as mentioned earlier he read literae humanioresTheScreamingEagles said:
But like Boris Johnson she's read PPE at Oxford, so she must be very intelligent as per the Boris fanbois.BannedinnParis said:Don't get me started on Dodds.
She even obtained a first, so she's much more intelligent Boris Johnson, amIright?
Compare with Natural Sciences at Cambridge. Phalanxes of pimply, bespectacled youths from the old grammar schools/academies/frees and better comps. All with four As. At least.0 -
-
You never know. If the success rate is onluy 8% he only needs to try it on about 12 women.Richard_Nabavi said:
Does that really work as a chat-up line, though?SandyRentool said:I feel the need to remind everyone that I did a PPE degree ***in my spare time***
But it's a fair point in any discussion of how qualified one is and to judge that one has to judge how one uses one's educational opportunities.0 -
In the US, the Americans With Disabilities Act mandates a sign language interpreter at any public event or performance.Carnyx said:
BSL is not easy to do well and accurately if one is not born to it - it's logically equivalent to translating to and from ideogrammatic Chinese on the spot in real time with the added need to modify it emotively and kinematically. An interesting accomplishment for a politician, and by no means obviously inferior to being able to quote, say, Aristophanes.HYUFD said:
She still has not obtained any GCSEs though as far as I can see, I am sure she would make a good sign language interpreter or carer, just not UK PMTheScreamingEagles said:
Rayner passed exams on British Sign Language at a college and also to become a qualified social worker.HYUFD said:
Plus Major passed complex banking exams too to add to his 3 O LevelsTheScreamingEagles said:Angela Rayner obtained three fewer GCSEs/O Levels than John Major, just saying.
This lady, Holly Maniatty, presumably spent an awful lot of time practising to be able to do sign language for Eminem!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=VFRXaif1ewc1 -
At the moment, you're struggling to reach the backbench fodder standard.HYUFD said:
She still has not obtained any GCSEs though as far as I can see, I am sure she would make a good sign language interpreter or carer, just not UK PMTheScreamingEagles said:
Rayner passed exams on British Sign Language at a college and also to become a qualified social worker.HYUFD said:
Plus Major passed complex banking exams too to add to his 3 O LevelsTheScreamingEagles said:Angela Rayner obtained three fewer GCSEs/O Levels than John Major, just saying.
0 -
Not even on PB!Richard_Nabavi said:
Does that really work as a chat-up line, though?SandyRentool said:I feel the need to remind everyone that I did a PPE degree ***in my spare time***
1 -
I'm actually tempted to sign you up for the Graun's Blind Date just to see how that goes down.SandyRentool said:
Not even on PB!Richard_Nabavi said:
Does that really work as a chat-up line, though?SandyRentool said:I feel the need to remind everyone that I did a PPE degree ***in my spare time***
0 -
Labour's spending was fine (even the Tories thought so) but they were not taxing enough.TOPPING said:
Lab was spending far too much in the run up to the GFC. It was the era of self-certifying mortgages and @kinabalu -type City bonuses where fiscal receipts were through the roof.kinabalu said:
The Tories were supportive of Labour spending right up until it went pop and were for lower taxes. They were happy with a bigger deficit than the one subsequently rebranded as the root of all evil. But they made it stick. This is the point. Labour must take a leaf.Philip_Thompson said:
The difference is that Brown screwing up and over-spending before the financial crisis hit meaning that there was still a mammoth structural deficit to be fixed a couple of years after the crisis had finished was absolutely accurate and truthful.kinabalu said:
For me, Labour must stop pulling punches. The Tories were ruthless in pinning the consequences of the Global Financial Crisis on the presiding Labour government. There is no reason not to return the favour now. The virus is not of this government's making but many aspects of their response have been a disgrace. The latest debacle - schools - yet again showcases the astonishing level of incompetence and lack of consideration. It's an unforgivable carry on. Impossible to defend. Trouble is, they are not really having to. Not from Labour anyway.Roger said:
I mentioned David because the only Labour figures I can remember making an impression in the last year have been Blair T and Milliband D. I have a lot of time for Ed's backroom abilities but the public aren't aware of them or him. Labour has become a one man band and a pretty unimpressive one of late. I don't think Starmer gets it. He can be wrong but he has to impress.WhisperingOracle said:
I'm agree with some of this, but I think it's Ed Miliband who's in fact marginally the brighter Miliband. He demolished Johnson in the Commons a couple of months ago, in the kind of Commons performance his brother didn't put on. His brother is also very bright for a politician and an excellent organiser and motivator, but Ed is probably the more innovative policymaker.Roger said:
I wish you were right. I fear it's more simple than that. I'd say there are two reasons for the current pollingJonathan said:IMO there are three things that determine current polling.
1) We are are still in the middle of a crisis, the govt gets the benefit of the doubt and 'rallying round' support. When the crisis ends, the reckoning will begin and questions will be asked about what comes next. Until then politics is suspended.
2) Labour were a loooooong way back in 2019 and the party is still dealing with the aftermath. There is a lot of ground to recover both internally and externally.
3) We are three years from a general election, after two recent elections and a chaotic period there is not yet a huge appetite from change.
1. 55% of the country feel sour about Brexit. Labour have now totally capitulated. Is there a single ex Labour voter who will be impressed by Starmer's damascene conversion? The man who fought this scourge for four years now appears to be it's most wholehearted supporter. If it's worth doing now why wasn't it when Mrs May suggested it? We could have avoided Johnson.
2. An invisible shadow cabinet. A shadow chancellor who has been given the chance of a lifetime is completely out of her depth and invisible. It all feeds in to the idea that Starmer lacks judgement.
He's got time but he needs advice badly. He could do a lot worse than getting Tony back on board or at least the brighter Milliband.
If Labour had called for schools not to reopen, and for the government to plan for this inevitability rather than leave it until they had already gone back for a day, they would be in a position to make hay. But they didn't, so they're not. I hope when the next shambles comes - as it surely will - this mistake is not repeated. Forget "national consensus" and "softly softly" we need a New Labour ready and willing to stick it to these bozos whenever the many chances arise.
Time to sharpen up the politics with some new and brutal talking points. Covid shambles = TORY shambles. Johnson can't hack it and he doesn't give a tinker's. Thousands of deaths in this country directly attributable to the mishandling of this crisis. The culprits mustn't get away with it. If we tolerate this god knows what will be next. Blood on their hands. Blood on HIS hands. C'mon. It's the truth so let's not be squeamish about saying it.
Labourites like you want to pretend the deficit was all the recession's fault while ignoring the fact we weren't in recession when Brown caused his pre-recession deficit - nor were we in recession when the 2010 election happened.
The Tories are simply right now just dealing with a global pandemic during the pandemic not years after it right now.
In doing so they have one advantage and one disadvantage here with this crisis c.f. the global crash.
The disadvantage is it's easier for the public to relate to a new virus than a malfunction in the wholesale financial markets. This makes it almost impossible to blame the government for the originating event and have it believed.
The advantage is that whilst the Labour government reacted well to the crash, the government's response to this crisis has been palpably poor in many areas - and this can be objectively demonstrated.
That was the problem. As most grown up Lab supporters who study these things appreciate.
I also get that given your stated Lab position you would be unable to admit this in a public forum but we both know you appreciate it also.
Wonder if the Tories would have addressed that? Taxed more. Guess they might.0 -
Extreme arrogance, no conscience, willingness to lie, good at evading responsibility. On reflection, HYUFD is right, Oxbridge prepares them perfectly.JohnLilburne said:
Really? What qualifications do you need?HYUFD said:
It isn't, the UK PM should have educational qualificationsMexicanpete said:
That is outrageously out-dated, not to say irrelevant.HYUFD said:
I did not say an Oxbridge degree was a prerequisite, I had no problem with Callaghan or Major being PM but they at least had some qualifications, Rayner left school with none at allSirNorfolkPassmore said:
It really would. "Vote for me, I'm considerably cleverer than you and look at these certificates if you don't believe me" just isn't a good look among ANY part of the electorate.HYUFD said:
No it wouldn't, it may do with class warfare obsessed Corbyn voters there filled with inverse snobbery but they would never vote Tory anywayGallowgate said:
Like I said, your attitude would go down like a bucket of cold sick.HYUFD said:
Most voters the Tories won over in the RedWall would at least have had GCSEs or O Levels unlike RaynerGallowgate said:I can tell you for a fact that @HYUFD's obsession with qualifications and dismissal of life experience would go down like a bucket of cold sick on the doorsteps in the red wall.
That's not to say a keen intellect isn't an asset. But the way you've expressed it on this thread - implying that an Oxbridge degree is proof of that, and that folk without formal qualifications can't be sharp as a tack - is both wrong in fact and politically poisonous as a message.1 -
BBC News - TalkRadio: YouTube kicks channel off its platform
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55544205
I never watch it, but aren't the "controversial" anti-lockdown guests they had on the same faces we have seen on BBC and Sky numerous times?1 -
Brilliant! 360 fewer Irish HGVs on our roads. What's not to like?Scott_xP said:
2 -
Surely the premise for the Opposition should be that everything you would do is better than anything the government has done or is planning.kinabalu said:
Ha. No, this one below. The last 12 mins in particular. Funnily enough he is making essentially the same point you made a while ago. Labour should stop supporting this shambolic Tory government.TOPPING said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d10yMLRKAEskinabalu said:
I know. When they go low we go "oh alright then."OnlyLivingBoy said:
Agreed 100%. We're too bloody nice, that's our problem!kinabalu said:
For me, Labour must stop pulling punches. The Tories were ruthless in pinning the consequences of the Global Financial Crisis on the presiding Labour government. There is no reason not to return the favour now. The virus is not of this government's making but many aspects of their response have been a disgrace. The latest debacle - schools - yet again showcases the astonishing level of incompetence and lack of consideration. It's an unforgivable carry on. Impossible to defend. Trouble is, they are not really having to. Not from Labour anyway.Roger said:
I mentioned David because the only Labour figures I can remember making an impression in the last year have been Blair T and Milliband D. I have a lot of time for Ed's backroom abilities but the public aren't aware of them or him. Labour has become a one man band and a pretty unimpressive one of late. I don't think Starmer gets it. He can be wrong but he has to impress.WhisperingOracle said:
I'm agree with some of this, but I think it's Ed Miliband who's in fact marginally the brighter Miliband. He demolished Johnson in the Commons a couple of months ago, in the kind of Commons performance his brother didn't put on. His brother is also very bright for a politician and an excellent organiser and motivator, but Ed is probably the more innovative policymaker.Roger said:
I wish you were right. I fear it's more simple than that. I'd say there are two reasons for the current pollingJonathan said:IMO there are three things that determine current polling.
1) We are are still in the middle of a crisis, the govt gets the benefit of the doubt and 'rallying round' support. When the crisis ends, the reckoning will begin and questions will be asked about what comes next. Until then politics is suspended.
2) Labour were a loooooong way back in 2019 and the party is still dealing with the aftermath. There is a lot of ground to recover both internally and externally.
3) We are three years from a general election, after two recent elections and a chaotic period there is not yet a huge appetite from change.
1. 55% of the country feel sour about Brexit. Labour have now totally capitulated. Is there a single ex Labour voter who will be impressed by Starmer's damascene conversion? The man who fought this scourge for four years now appears to be it's most wholehearted supporter. If it's worth doing now why wasn't it when Mrs May suggested it? We could have avoided Johnson.
2. An invisible shadow cabinet. A shadow chancellor who has been given the chance of a lifetime is completely out of her depth and invisible. It all feeds in to the idea that Starmer lacks judgement.
He's got time but he needs advice badly. He could do a lot worse than getting Tony back on board or at least the brighter Milliband.
If Labour had called for schools not to reopen, and for the government to plan for this inevitability rather than leave it until they had already gone back for a day, they would be in a position to make hay. But they didn't, so they're not. I hope when the next shambles comes - as it surely will - this mistake is not repeated. Forget "national consensus" and "softly softly" we need a New Labour ready and willing to stick it to these bozos whenever the many chances arise.
Time to sharpen up the politics with some new and brutal talking points. Covid shambles = TORY shambles. Johnson can't hack it and he doesn't give a tinker's. Thousands of deaths in this country directly attributable to the mishandling of this crisis. The culprits mustn't get away with it. If we tolerate this god knows what will be next. Blood on their hands. Blood on HIS hands. C'mon. It's the truth so let's not be squeamish about saying it.
But not any more. Or certainly not with me today. I'm craving cigarettes and fired up even further by a particularly high octane OJ video.
https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1346192470133018625
Even JC got that.1 -
Yes. I was quite distressed to see that as of some time ago the claim was made that the UK had vaccinated nearly 900,000 people and several days if not a week or two later the claim was made that the UK had vaccinated just over 1m people. ie no real increase in a substantial time period.FrancisUrquhart said:
My 90-yr old mother vaccination adventures update: today received a text saying 2nd jab postponed (had been due on 19th Jan) and someone would be in touch to confirm a new date.0 -
Interesting move from Pence if true, although the indication is that Grassley has immediately back-tracked (whether because he was misquoted or let the cat out of the bag too early is unclear).Richard_Nabavi said:0 -
That rather assumes that all of them were heading for the other end (ie Dover). It's not as if there is a train tunnel or ferry to take containers.CarlottaVance said:0 -
1
-
Since Ive been able to vote there have only been two oppositions that won power, under Blair and Cameron. Both accepted large chunks of the incumbent govts policies and platform as a price for gaining power to the disappointment of their party loyalists.TOPPING said:
Surely the premise for the Opposition should be that everything you would do is better than anything the government has done or is planning.kinabalu said:
Ha. No, this one below. The last 12 mins in particular. Funnily enough he is making essentially the same point you made a while ago. Labour should stop supporting this shambolic Tory government.TOPPING said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d10yMLRKAEskinabalu said:
I know. When they go low we go "oh alright then."OnlyLivingBoy said:
Agreed 100%. We're too bloody nice, that's our problem!kinabalu said:
For me, Labour must stop pulling punches. The Tories were ruthless in pinning the consequences of the Global Financial Crisis on the presiding Labour government. There is no reason not to return the favour now. The virus is not of this government's making but many aspects of their response have been a disgrace. The latest debacle - schools - yet again showcases the astonishing level of incompetence and lack of consideration. It's an unforgivable carry on. Impossible to defend. Trouble is, they are not really having to. Not from Labour anyway.Roger said:
I mentioned David because the only Labour figures I can remember making an impression in the last year have been Blair T and Milliband D. I have a lot of time for Ed's backroom abilities but the public aren't aware of them or him. Labour has become a one man band and a pretty unimpressive one of late. I don't think Starmer gets it. He can be wrong but he has to impress.WhisperingOracle said:
I'm agree with some of this, but I think it's Ed Miliband who's in fact marginally the brighter Miliband. He demolished Johnson in the Commons a couple of months ago, in the kind of Commons performance his brother didn't put on. His brother is also very bright for a politician and an excellent organiser and motivator, but Ed is probably the more innovative policymaker.Roger said:
I wish you were right. I fear it's more simple than that. I'd say there are two reasons for the current pollingJonathan said:IMO there are three things that determine current polling.
1) We are are still in the middle of a crisis, the govt gets the benefit of the doubt and 'rallying round' support. When the crisis ends, the reckoning will begin and questions will be asked about what comes next. Until then politics is suspended.
2) Labour were a loooooong way back in 2019 and the party is still dealing with the aftermath. There is a lot of ground to recover both internally and externally.
3) We are three years from a general election, after two recent elections and a chaotic period there is not yet a huge appetite from change.
1. 55% of the country feel sour about Brexit. Labour have now totally capitulated. Is there a single ex Labour voter who will be impressed by Starmer's damascene conversion? The man who fought this scourge for four years now appears to be it's most wholehearted supporter. If it's worth doing now why wasn't it when Mrs May suggested it? We could have avoided Johnson.
2. An invisible shadow cabinet. A shadow chancellor who has been given the chance of a lifetime is completely out of her depth and invisible. It all feeds in to the idea that Starmer lacks judgement.
He's got time but he needs advice badly. He could do a lot worse than getting Tony back on board or at least the brighter Milliband.
If Labour had called for schools not to reopen, and for the government to plan for this inevitability rather than leave it until they had already gone back for a day, they would be in a position to make hay. But they didn't, so they're not. I hope when the next shambles comes - as it surely will - this mistake is not repeated. Forget "national consensus" and "softly softly" we need a New Labour ready and willing to stick it to these bozos whenever the many chances arise.
Time to sharpen up the politics with some new and brutal talking points. Covid shambles = TORY shambles. Johnson can't hack it and he doesn't give a tinker's. Thousands of deaths in this country directly attributable to the mishandling of this crisis. The culprits mustn't get away with it. If we tolerate this god knows what will be next. Blood on their hands. Blood on HIS hands. C'mon. It's the truth so let's not be squeamish about saying it.
But not any more. Or certainly not with me today. I'm craving cigarettes and fired up even further by a particularly high octane OJ video.
https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1346192470133018625
Even JC got that.
What evidence is there that opposing everything works? I think that history shows that to be a big mistake.0 -
Brexit. Easing congestion and pollution on Britain's roads. Good result.Scott_xP said:2 -
Yep. I know we love to crap on the media, but they’re OFCOM regulated and freedom of speech is still an important principle.FrancisUrquhart said:BBC News - TalkRadio: YouTube kicks channel off its platform
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55544205
I never watch it, but aren't the "controversial" anti-lockdown guests they had on the same faces we have seen on BBC and Sky numerous times?0 -
I'm agreeing. Something is wrong and I'm giving a view of what it might be - Labour must sharpen up.MarqueeMark said:
Maybe what is rotten is Labour's ability to look coherent.kinabalu said:
So the public need to open their eyes then - and Labour must help them do it. I'd say it's a duty. Presiding over this mess should not translate to a lead in the polls. Something is not right there. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. Very dangerous for our democracy if there is no penalty for callous incompetence in government.Sandpit said:
Politicising a pandemic might go down well with the Canary-reading Corbyn fan club, but it will go down like a cup of cold sick with the other 99% of the population who are happy we have vaccines coming, and think the government did everything they could to avoid closing the schools.kinabalu said:
For me, Labour must stop pulling punches. The Tories were ruthless in pinning the consequences of the Global Financial Crisis on the presiding Labour government. There is no reason not to return the favour now. The virus is not of this government's making but many aspects of their response have been a disgrace. The latest debacle - schools - yet again showcases the astonishing level of incompetence and lack of consideration. It's an unforgivable carry on. Impossible to defend. Trouble is, they are not really having to. Not from Labour anyway.Roger said:
I mentioned David because the only Labour figures I can remember making an impression in the last year have been Blair T and Milliband D. I have a lot of time for Ed's backroom abilities but the public aren't aware of them or him. Labour has become a one man band and a pretty unimpressive one of late. I don't think Starmer gets it. He can be wrong but he has to impress.WhisperingOracle said:
I'm agree with some of this, but I think it's Ed Miliband who's in fact marginally the brighter Miliband. He demolished Johnson in the Commons a couple of months ago, in the kind of Commons performance his brother didn't put on. His brother is also very bright for a politician and an excellent organiser and motivator, but Ed is probably the more innovative policymaker.Roger said:
I wish you were right. I fear it's more simple than that. I'd say there are two reasons for the current pollingJonathan said:IMO there are three things that determine current polling.
1) We are are still in the middle of a crisis, the govt gets the benefit of the doubt and 'rallying round' support. When the crisis ends, the reckoning will begin and questions will be asked about what comes next. Until then politics is suspended.
2) Labour were a loooooong way back in 2019 and the party is still dealing with the aftermath. There is a lot of ground to recover both internally and externally.
3) We are three years from a general election, after two recent elections and a chaotic period there is not yet a huge appetite from change.
1. 55% of the country feel sour about Brexit. Labour have now totally capitulated. Is there a single ex Labour voter who will be impressed by Starmer's damascene conversion? The man who fought this scourge for four years now appears to be it's most wholehearted supporter. If it's worth doing now why wasn't it when Mrs May suggested it? We could have avoided Johnson.
2. An invisible shadow cabinet. A shadow chancellor who has been given the chance of a lifetime is completely out of her depth and invisible. It all feeds in to the idea that Starmer lacks judgement.
He's got time but he needs advice badly. He could do a lot worse than getting Tony back on board or at least the brighter Milliband.
If Labour had called for schools not to reopen, and for the government to plan for this inevitability rather than leave it until they had already gone back for a day, they would be in a position to make hay. But they didn't, so they're not. I hope when the next shambles comes - as it surely will - this mistake is not repeated. Forget "national consensus" and "softly softly" we need a New Labour ready and willing to stick it to these bozos whenever the many chances arise.
Time to sharpen up the politics with some new and brutal talking points. Covid shambles = TORY shambles. Johnson can't hack it and he doesn't give a tinker's. Thousands of deaths in this country directly attributable to the mishandling of this crisis. The culprits mustn't get away with it. If we tolerate this god knows what will be next. Blood on their hands. Blood on HIS hands. C'mon. It's the truth so let's not be squeamish about saying it.
I mean, if you can't get a 24-carat, diamond-encrusted win on education, something's wrong. Against Gavin Williamson? Somebody REALLY isn't doing their job if that challenge is a no-score draw....0 -
I do appreciate that you can't confirm it on this forum but we'll take it as understood. No need to say anything more about it, totally understand.kinabalu said:
Labour's spending was fine (even the Tories thought so) but they were not taxing enough.TOPPING said:
Lab was spending far too much in the run up to the GFC. It was the era of self-certifying mortgages and @kinabalu -type City bonuses where fiscal receipts were through the roof.kinabalu said:
The Tories were supportive of Labour spending right up until it went pop and were for lower taxes. They were happy with a bigger deficit than the one subsequently rebranded as the root of all evil. But they made it stick. This is the point. Labour must take a leaf.Philip_Thompson said:
The difference is that Brown screwing up and over-spending before the financial crisis hit meaning that there was still a mammoth structural deficit to be fixed a couple of years after the crisis had finished was absolutely accurate and truthful.kinabalu said:
For me, Labour must stop pulling punches. The Tories were ruthless in pinning the consequences of the Global Financial Crisis on the presiding Labour government. There is no reason not to return the favour now. The virus is not of this government's making but many aspects of their response have been a disgrace. The latest debacle - schools - yet again showcases the astonishing level of incompetence and lack of consideration. It's an unforgivable carry on. Impossible to defend. Trouble is, they are not really having to. Not from Labour anyway.Roger said:
I mentioned David because the only Labour figures I can remember making an impression in the last year have been Blair T and Milliband D. I have a lot of time for Ed's backroom abilities but the public aren't aware of them or him. Labour has become a one man band and a pretty unimpressive one of late. I don't think Starmer gets it. He can be wrong but he has to impress.WhisperingOracle said:
I'm agree with some of this, but I think it's Ed Miliband who's in fact marginally the brighter Miliband. He demolished Johnson in the Commons a couple of months ago, in the kind of Commons performance his brother didn't put on. His brother is also very bright for a politician and an excellent organiser and motivator, but Ed is probably the more innovative policymaker.Roger said:
I wish you were right. I fear it's more simple than that. I'd say there are two reasons for the current pollingJonathan said:IMO there are three things that determine current polling.
1) We are are still in the middle of a crisis, the govt gets the benefit of the doubt and 'rallying round' support. When the crisis ends, the reckoning will begin and questions will be asked about what comes next. Until then politics is suspended.
2) Labour were a loooooong way back in 2019 and the party is still dealing with the aftermath. There is a lot of ground to recover both internally and externally.
3) We are three years from a general election, after two recent elections and a chaotic period there is not yet a huge appetite from change.
1. 55% of the country feel sour about Brexit. Labour have now totally capitulated. Is there a single ex Labour voter who will be impressed by Starmer's damascene conversion? The man who fought this scourge for four years now appears to be it's most wholehearted supporter. If it's worth doing now why wasn't it when Mrs May suggested it? We could have avoided Johnson.
2. An invisible shadow cabinet. A shadow chancellor who has been given the chance of a lifetime is completely out of her depth and invisible. It all feeds in to the idea that Starmer lacks judgement.
He's got time but he needs advice badly. He could do a lot worse than getting Tony back on board or at least the brighter Milliband.
If Labour had called for schools not to reopen, and for the government to plan for this inevitability rather than leave it until they had already gone back for a day, they would be in a position to make hay. But they didn't, so they're not. I hope when the next shambles comes - as it surely will - this mistake is not repeated. Forget "national consensus" and "softly softly" we need a New Labour ready and willing to stick it to these bozos whenever the many chances arise.
Time to sharpen up the politics with some new and brutal talking points. Covid shambles = TORY shambles. Johnson can't hack it and he doesn't give a tinker's. Thousands of deaths in this country directly attributable to the mishandling of this crisis. The culprits mustn't get away with it. If we tolerate this god knows what will be next. Blood on their hands. Blood on HIS hands. C'mon. It's the truth so let's not be squeamish about saying it.
Labourites like you want to pretend the deficit was all the recession's fault while ignoring the fact we weren't in recession when Brown caused his pre-recession deficit - nor were we in recession when the 2010 election happened.
The Tories are simply right now just dealing with a global pandemic during the pandemic not years after it right now.
In doing so they have one advantage and one disadvantage here with this crisis c.f. the global crash.
The disadvantage is it's easier for the public to relate to a new virus than a malfunction in the wholesale financial markets. This makes it almost impossible to blame the government for the originating event and have it believed.
The advantage is that whilst the Labour government reacted well to the crash, the government's response to this crisis has been palpably poor in many areas - and this can be objectively demonstrated.
That was the problem. As most grown up Lab supporters who study these things appreciate.
I also get that given your stated Lab position you would be unable to admit this in a public forum but we both know you appreciate it also.
Wonder if the Tories would have addressed that? Taxed more. Guess they might.0 -
FrancisUrquhart said:
BBC News - TalkRadio: YouTube kicks channel off its platform
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55544205
I never watch it, but aren't the "controversial" anti-lockdown guests they had on the same faces we have seen on BBC and Sky numerous times?
Broadcast regulation does not address who appears, but what they say and how it is contextualised.
There is absolutely no problem having David Icke on TV - the problem is if he is allowed to expound his conspiracy theories with no push back or context.0 -
Well they wouldn't be taking a ferry to France if they were due to drop off a load in Birmingham.Carnyx said:
That rather assumes that all of them were heading for the other end (ie Dover). It's not as if there is a train tunnel or ferry to take containers.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Nobody who is very well educated, well qualified and of high intellect is going to be remotely interested in being PM.Stocky said:
For me it is an imperative that the PM of ANY country is very well educated, well qualified and of high intellect. Is that controversial?Gallowgate said:
You are really quite the university and qualifications snob aren't you?HYUFD said:
Fair enough but you can walk down any housing estate in the country and find someone who left school at 16 with no GCSEs and had a baby, you can use them in an election broadcast, you do not need to make them your candidate to be PM!RochdalePioneers said:Angela Rayner is a success story the Labour Party should make more of. Left school at 16 with no GCSEs and a baby, became a carer then into the Labour Party via the union route. She talks northern, understands what its like to have nothing but responsibilities and no money. She could cut through to the ex-red wall.
But too many in the party hate her for saying Tony Blair changed her life.
First, there are way more interesting things to do. Whether you seek rewards in monetary terms, in terms of intellectual endeavour or in terms of helping people, there are just much, much more attractive & satisfying careers.
Secondly, to actually get to be PM, you would need the membership of the Labour Party or the Tory party to choose you in the first place. In other words, you'd need to appeal to people like HYUFD or Gabble, the brain-dead or nearly so.
Thirdly, the job involves such intrusions into family or personal live that no-one remotely normal will be interested. Who wants 24 hour rolling news pouring over every detail of your life -- and your partner's and your children's -- in real-time?
The job of PM is reserved for people of very modest intelligence with severe personality disorders.2 -
This is why GB News is probably hoping for changes in broadcasting regulation that were vaguely briefed to the Press during the Cummings era ; I don't know if these are still in the Government's plans.SirNorfolkPassmore said:FrancisUrquhart said:BBC News - TalkRadio: YouTube kicks channel off its platform
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55544205
I never watch it, but aren't the "controversial" anti-lockdown guests they had on the same faces we have seen on BBC and Sky numerous times?
Broadcast regulation does not address who appears, but what they say and how it is contextualised.
There is absolutely no problem having David Icke on TV - the problem is if he is allowed to expound his conspiracy theories with no push back or context.
A previous round of broadcasting regulation changes in 1990, largely, but not totally, down to Thatcher's relationship with Murdoch, were very important in dumbing down our public culture.1
This discussion has been closed.