Trump’s desperate attempt to bully the Georgia Secretary of State shows the lengths he’ll go to hang

Malmesbury said:

A prediction - when the numbers come out this week, the COVID deniers will use the argument that since the case numbers are below the peak of the 29th (Caused by Christmas Effect), there is no problem.

I hope we are that lucky. My prediction is that today is the busiest testing day ever as people contemplate having to go back to work or school, and that cases for today will be over 100k once the numbers have trundled in over the rest of the week. (The 29th is 80k.)

https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1346041978476228609?s=20

Leon said:

Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

There is no evidence as yet that the vaccine will not work on the SA variant, though even if does not work we may end up with herd immunity for that variant anyway if it spreads much faster

Pulpstar said:

kinabalu said:

You can back Trump to cease to be POTUS in 2021 - an outcome with approx the same probability as the sun rising tomorrow - at 1.03. So a risk free 3% return on your money in 16 days. What an APR. Plus there's the added benefit of knowing that juicy return is being funded by delusional softhead Trumpsters.

I've gone all in on this one. Even if Biden dies, the bet still wins.

You really have to if you're someone who doesn't mind lumping. It's as close to zero risk as a bet can ever be. And it will pay promptly. There's no ambiguity.

https://twitter.com/theAliceRoberts/status/1346043278437847040

FrancisUrquhart said:

Leon said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Mortimer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

Rightly, IMO, they fundamentally dislike taking away liberties.

I think that is a fair point, but we can all see the numbers (and of course they are ones in the rear view mirror). It is clear with these new variants, we can't contain it without much stricter rules.

How strict, tho? What if Tier 5 (spring lockdown, closed schools) doesn’t work? I guess they could literally order everyone indoors. 24 hour curfew. Tier 89. But even then you’d have essential workers going out... catching it...

Hopefully the vaccines work. I believe they will. But if they don’t we might have to be very brutal in our choices to save our health system.

I think unfortunately we have to go super strict e.g. Only go out for food / medicines and needs to be for next 2 months.

Yes - that's what seems to genuinely have turned the tide in China, to the point that normality has now returned and the occasional local cases can be contained by tracking and tracing. As Leon says, essential workers will still need to go out, but in that scenario they should get vaccine priority - if Sainsbury delivery staff are being asked to go out when everyone else is locked up, then it makes sense to vaccinate them before someone sitting onm their own in their homes.

https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1346033731979649027?s=20
https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1346037907107229697?s=20

kinabalu said:

Pulpstar said:

kinabalu said:

You can back Trump to cease to be POTUS in 2021 - an outcome with approx the same probability as the sun rising tomorrow - at 1.03. So a risk free 3% return on your money in 16 days. What an APR. Plus there's the added benefit of knowing that juicy return is being funded by delusional softhead Trumpsters.

I've gone all in on this one. Even if Biden dies, the bet still wins.

You really have to if you're someone who doesn't mind lumping. It's as close to zero risk as a bet can ever be. And it will pay promptly. There's no ambiguity.

Betting against Marine Le Pen after the 'Outre Mer' results came out vs Macron, & both 2016 and 2020 popular vote for the US elections are the only other 5 figure bets I've ever placed.

Mr. Floater, I hope he's ok.

Even money is too short for me here, but the smoke signlas from the early vote are good for the Democrats here.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1346033731979649027?s=20
https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1346037907107229697?s=20

Those figures do largely confirm that love it or hate it most people will want to move on from the endless debate over the EU

Can someone tell me where the 'donate' button has gone, please

MrEd said:

contrarian said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

They have told people the vaccines will set them free as a way to prevent mass disorder.

Ramping up restrictions after that is not a good look.

I think if people know it is for a set period of time, then that is fine. The real issue will be if the vaccines don't work against new variants.

I expect the immunity picture won't be a clear yay or nay. I think the vaccines will work vs the SA strain for people with good immune systems + a vaccine - so that'll be those of us ineligible for ages

NickPalmer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

I don't dislike Boris personally, but really the weekend interview where he rambled about quite possibly introducing unspecified stricter measures in parts of the country in a few weeks' time showed him at his very worst. This sort of vacillation actually encourages people to get out and enjoy relative freedom while it lasts, which is exactly the wrong message. We don't need to be gently eased into restrictions like 5-year-olds. Get on with with it!

I agree with you NIck

Pulpstar said:

Even money is too short for me here, but the smoke signlas from the early vote are good for the Democrats here.

I understand. I was a GoP backer at evens ubtil recently but I think Trump may have turned it round for the blue team.

AlwaysSinging said:

I see that the Chicken Licken tendency are out of their cage again.

In University news, UCL has announced that students should not return to campus (unless already there, or doing special subjects) until at least the end of Feb. I hear that Cambridge may be doing something similar. Let's hope that some other Universities grow a backbone and do the same. Mine still silent.

--AS

25th January here, and we're now planning for similar timeline for my department.

Leon said:

They will close the schools. It’s inevitable

It was inevitable yesterday when BoZo went on National TV and didn't do it...

noneoftheabove said:

mwadams said:

AlwaysSinging said:

I see that the Chicken Licken tendency are out of their cage again.

In University news, UCL has announced that students should not return to campus (unless already there, or doing special subjects) until at least the end of Feb. I hear that Cambridge may be doing something similar. Let's hope that some other Universities grow a backbone and do the same. Mine still silent.

--AS

That is the advice being given to Cambridge students (on a college-by-college basis, AIUI). They are not being *precluded* from coming in, but are being advised not to come.

How would they preclude someone from moving back to the accommodation they have paid for and are contracted for and demand they should stay as a guest with whoever they spent Christmas with?

Don't get me wrong, they should absolutely should be advised to stay in home towns if they sensibly can, but it cant be mandatory.

No - indeed. They could, I'm sure, say that the property is not available for health and safety reasons, but they are being more sensible and practical than that

FrancisUrquhart said:

Leon said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Mortimer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

Rightly, IMO, they fundamentally dislike taking away liberties.

I think that is a fair point, but we can all see the numbers (and of course they are ones in the rear view mirror). It is clear with these new variants, we can't contain it without much stricter rules.

How strict, tho? What if Tier 5 (spring lockdown, closed schools) doesn’t work? I guess they could literally order everyone indoors. 24 hour curfew. Tier 89. But even then you’d have essential workers going out... catching it...

Hopefully the vaccines work. I believe they will. But if they don’t we might have to be very brutal in our choices to save our health system.

I think unfortunately we have to go super strict e.g. Only go out for food / medicines and needs to be for next 2 months.

Won't happen. Treasury will (rightly) overrule.

Some of us have businesses to run.

FrancisUrquhart said:

I am no Boris fan and I think lots of his positions are purely playing to gallery, but I think when it comes to lockdown it is something he genuinely finds goes against his beliefs. All polling says he would get loads of credit for strict lockdown measures, he has loads of political cover, it is advantageous for his premiership to do it, but he clearly finds it nearly impossible to do.

He's an idiot.

Apparently the reason he refused to sack Cummings was because the papers printed that he should.

So now if the papers say he should lockdown, he might just not do it out of sheer idiocy.

He is a danger. Tories who backed him should be crawling with shame.

DavidL said:

Leon said:

I know this is politicalbetting, but talking about Georgia right now feels like focussing on the cricket during Dunkirk

It's never wrong to focus on the cricket. Georgia? Maybe not so much.

Much better to have cricket than Georgia on my mind!

For the US, there's a few tiers of GOP at work here

Tier 1 - GOP that are actively rejecting Trump's nonsense - Chip Roy objecting to certification of the WI, NV etc reults in the house is probably the most prominent of these. Pat Toomey also, Sasse now in the club, Romney was always here.
Tier 2 - Those that are staying errm.. quiet
Tier 3 - Those that are showing ankle to the Trumpers but won't actually do anything outrageous. Mike Pence is here, McConnell too. They'd probably be amongst the silent ones in Tier 2 but by virtue of having a higher profile role have had to say .. something.
Tier 4 - The MAGAs who are going to try and chuck out slates, but are acting within the US law/constitution (Even if you think the law/constitution is mince)
Tier 5 - Acting outside the law - not sure if it's blackmail, election intereference or sedition but his call to Raffensberger could certainly be tried in a court if he's not been pardoned by then - perhaps by Pence ... or himself ! In this category, Trump himself. Pretty much alone actually.

Scott_xP said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I am no Boris fan and I think lots of his positions are purely playing to gallery, but I think when it comes to lockdown it is something he genuinely finds goes against his beliefs. All polling says he would get loads of credit for strict lockdown measures, he has loads of political cover, it is advantageous for his premiership to do it, but he clearly finds it nearly impossible to do.

He's an idiot.

Apparently the reason he refused to sack Cummings was because the papers printed that he should.

So now if the papers say he should lockdown, he might just not do it out of sheer idiocy.

He is a danger. Tories who backed him should be crawling with shame.

Cameron refused to sack Coulson for ages, because he felt the papers were on a witch hunt. Its not uncommon for leaders to be unwilling to give the newspapers their scalp.

As I say, specifically on locking people, this is one area that goes against his beliefs. Other stuff, laziness, not looking at the detail, above his comprehension, etc, absolutely.

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

DavidL said:

Leon said:

DavidL said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

contrarian said:

Leon said:

Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back

Are you and Leon related? You seem to have an over-reacting panic gene. You don't know it is resistant yet and even if it is you don't know that it isn't easy to adapt the vaccine and even if it isn't we are no worse off than we were. It is not great, but get a grip.

If bird flu ever mutates so as to be easily transmissible without loss of mortality then panic.

I’m not panicking. I’m reacting with sensible alarm to what is, potentially, the greatest threat to humanity since World War 2

I think it is worth remembering that this virus only kills about 1% of those infected. This will not cause a collapse in society, not least because 80%+ of that 1% will be past working age.

The problem is the sick and the pressure on the NHS. I think that within 10 days we are going to see significant parts of the country where it is simply not possible to get into a hospital and people will die of heart attacks and strokes that could have been saved. I really don't see how we can stop this now even if we shut the schools and enter total lockdown. Its already baked in.

This risks spreading the consequences of the virus somewhat but again I do not think enough people of working age will be directly affected to impact on society. So I don't agree its the greatest threat to humanity since WW2. But its bad and getting worse, no question.

According to Worldometer, the global case fatality ratio is, at the moment, 3%

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Of course in reality it must be less than that, because of undetected infections etc, but we cannot know the true figure. And, as you rightly say, the real nightmare is crashed health systems, in which case the CFR will shoot up as many bad cases go untreated, and other ailments are ignored, can’t reach hospital, and so forth

I noted the other day that our fatality rate was 3.00% of our "official" infection rate. The assumption that 3x as many have had the virus than the official figures suggest always looked somewhat anecdotal to me and must be becoming more questionable as our testing has ramped up to quite incredible levels. I personally think it likely that the fatality rate is more than 1% but hey, I am only a lawyer.

If just 1% of Britons died of an out-of-control virus, that would be 670,000 dead people, in a year: it would be worse than any single year in World War 1, by a distance. That would be plague pits, overwhelmed crematoria, the worst scenes from Italy in the spring, but magnified greatly.

I don’t think it would cause ‘societal collapse’ (what even is that?), but, as with World War 1, I reckon it would traumatise us as a nation, and change us in ways we cannot predict.

Let us pray this remains dark speculation on a nerdy politics forum.

But about 228K died of the 1919 flu in the UK. Not far off 1%.

UK population in 1921 was 43 million.

0.51% is (even with allowances for a bit of growth after 1918) quite a long way off 1% ...

Though I take the casualties of WW1 comparison,

DavidL said:

Leon said:

One reason they will close the schools in England is that Sturgeon is - it seems - about to do exactly that in Scotland. So then you get the English public and the Daily Mail saying What, are English kids less precious than Scottish kids? Do English lives count for less?

And so Boris will, alas, close the schools

Scotland's schools are already shut to 18th January. I am expecting that to be extended to at least the end of the month today. TINA.

I am more willing than most to cut the government a fair bit of slack in dealing with an unprecedented pandemic which continues to generate surprises but the continued failure to read the most basic charts and think through the obvious implications is a frustration and a disappointment. I understand the reluctance and I share it but this has been blindingly obvious since the new variant became dominant.

'Government'? (not trying to score a point, just checking whether you mean Mr J's lot).

DavidL said:

Leon said:

One reason they will close the schools in England is that Sturgeon is - it seems - about to do exactly that in Scotland. So then you get the English public and the Daily Mail saying What, are English kids less precious than Scottish kids? Do English lives count for less?

And so Boris will, alas, close the schools

Scotland's schools are already shut to 18th January. I am expecting that to be extended to at least the end of the month today. TINA.

I am more willing than most to cut the government a fair bit of slack in dealing with an unprecedented pandemic which continues to generate surprises but the continued failure to read the most basic charts and think through the obvious implications is a frustration and a disappointment. I understand the reluctance and I share it but this has been blindingly obvious since the new variant became dominant.

Are you saying *whispers* that Nicola might have been more on top of this than BJ?

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1346033731979649027?s=20
https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1346037907107229697?s=20

Interesting data which backs up the hypothesis I have been advancing. Punters in these largely red wall swing states think the government is led by someone who will lie to them, will make the rich richer, won't fund the NHS and won't help them or their area level up.

But they will support him because Brexit. The prize overrules all other considerations - why? Because when you have been sold a catch-all magic wand solution to all your ills you cling onto the illusion even if you know its a lie because thats all you have left.

The previous thread asked how Labour win these voters back. As long as the political paradigm is based on opinions of Brexit I don't see how they can. Yes, you may be offering to tell them the truth and level up and invest and all the other things they want which they know the government not only aren't doing but lying to them about.

But Brexit...

https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/1346048351515648000?s=20

MattW said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

DavidL said:

Leon said:

DavidL said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

contrarian said:

Leon said:

Ok this virus is f*cking terrifying now

The NHS in the south is close to cracking. The SA variant may be resistant to the vaccines.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/jan/04/uk-coronavirus-live-matt-hancock-south-african-covid-variant-lockdown-schools-latest-updates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I see it didn;t take the SAGE committee long to find a virus variant that is resistant to vaccines. The dreaded South African variant.

Its clear now, quicker than I expected, that vaccines will not set us free.

Indeed, restrictions are not lifting as vaccines roll out, they are intensifying. The spread of the virus cannot be because of anything the government is doing and so it must be our fault.

Maoists blamed 'speculators' when markets crashed or ceased to exist in response to their policies and rounded them up in camps or executed them.

What we have here from Hancock and SAGE is tghe beginning of something in the same vein.

As I posted on here before, we are never getting out of this. We are never getting out until the economy breaks, or we decide we have had enough. Even then we face a gargantuan struggle to get any of our liberties back

Are you and Leon related? You seem to have an over-reacting panic gene. You don't know it is resistant yet and even if it is you don't know that it isn't easy to adapt the vaccine and even if it isn't we are no worse off than we were. It is not great, but get a grip.

If bird flu ever mutates so as to be easily transmissible without loss of mortality then panic.

I’m not panicking. I’m reacting with sensible alarm to what is, potentially, the greatest threat to humanity since World War 2

I think it is worth remembering that this virus only kills about 1% of those infected. This will not cause a collapse in society, not least because 80%+ of that 1% will be past working age.

The problem is the sick and the pressure on the NHS. I think that within 10 days we are going to see significant parts of the country where it is simply not possible to get into a hospital and people will die of heart attacks and strokes that could have been saved. I really don't see how we can stop this now even if we shut the schools and enter total lockdown. Its already baked in.

This risks spreading the consequences of the virus somewhat but again I do not think enough people of working age will be directly affected to impact on society. So I don't agree its the greatest threat to humanity since WW2. But its bad and getting worse, no question.

According to Worldometer, the global case fatality ratio is, at the moment, 3%

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Of course in reality it must be less than that, because of undetected infections etc, but we cannot know the true figure. And, as you rightly say, the real nightmare is crashed health systems, in which case the CFR will shoot up as many bad cases go untreated, and other ailments are ignored, can’t reach hospital, and so forth

I noted the other day that our fatality rate was 3.00% of our "official" infection rate. The assumption that 3x as many have had the virus than the official figures suggest always looked somewhat anecdotal to me and must be becoming more questionable as our testing has ramped up to quite incredible levels. I personally think it likely that the fatality rate is more than 1% but hey, I am only a lawyer.

If just 1% of Britons died of an out-of-control virus, that would be 670,000 dead people, in a year: it would be worse than any single year in World War 1, by a distance. That would be plague pits, overwhelmed crematoria, the worst scenes from Italy in the spring, but magnified greatly.

I don’t think it would cause ‘societal collapse’ (what even is that?), but, as with World War 1, I reckon it would traumatise us as a nation, and change us in ways we cannot predict.

Let us pray this remains dark speculation on a nerdy politics forum.

But about 228K died of the 1919 flu in the UK. Not far off 1%.

UK population in 1921 was 43 million.

0.51% is (even with allowances for a bit of growth after 1918) quite a long way off 1% ...

Though I take the casualties of WW1 comparison,

Ah thanks - I'd got it in my head it was abouty 30m. Quite right to point that out.

Carnyx said:

DavidL said:

Leon said:

One reason they will close the schools in England is that Sturgeon is - it seems - about to do exactly that in Scotland. So then you get the English public and the Daily Mail saying What, are English kids less precious than Scottish kids? Do English lives count for less?

And so Boris will, alas, close the schools

Scotland's schools are already shut to 18th January. I am expecting that to be extended to at least the end of the month today. TINA.

I am more willing than most to cut the government a fair bit of slack in dealing with an unprecedented pandemic which continues to generate surprises but the continued failure to read the most basic charts and think through the obvious implications is a frustration and a disappointment. I understand the reluctance and I share it but this has been blindingly obvious since the new variant became dominant.

'Government'? (not trying to score a point, just checking whether you mean Mr J's lot).

Actually I mean all governments including Holyrood. This is a difficult time to be in charge and its not getting any easier.

OldKingCole said:

DavidL said:

Leon said:

I know this is politicalbetting, but talking about Georgia right now feels like focussing on the cricket during Dunkirk

It's never wrong to focus on the cricket. Georgia? Maybe not so much.

Much better to have cricket than Georgia on my mind!

Indeed.

Sri Lanka making a better fist of it today.

Meanwhile I think India are great value to win the third Test against Australia - 4.1 on Betfair, but check to see when they intend to pay out.

CarlottaVance said:

There we go.....

https://twitter.com/JoshuaRozenberg/status/1346048415537491969?s=20

That really does surprise me

Scott_xP said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

As I say, specifically on locking people, this is one area that goes against his beliefs. Other stuff, laziness, not looking at the detail, above his comprehension, etc, absolutely.

He believes it would be better for more people to get infected?

That's worse...

Clearly not, he keeps trying to believe that a combination of some restrictions and personal responsibility will be enough. He is wrong, but he isn't the only leader to believe this. The likes of Germany believed they could have lockdown lite this winter, rather than take people all personal freedoms away again.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Leon said:

One reason they will close the schools in England is that Sturgeon is - it seems - about to do exactly that in Scotland. So then you get the English public and the Daily Mail saying What, are English kids less precious than Scottish kids? Do English lives count for less?

And so Boris will, alas, close the schools

But not in Wales yet

My sons school is back today though it is a private school (he is IT director not a pupil for clarification)

and my grandchildren's primary gores back on Wednesday

Wales will follow. We’re all heading into Tier 462b, where we are stapled to our sofas and our eyelids are sealed shut with superglue. Special self-driving food vans will park outside our homes, extend tubes through the open windows, and pipe hot broth - humorously nicknamed ‘Boris broth’ - into our gaping mouths.

FrancisUrquhart said:

NickPalmer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

I don't dislike Boris personally, but really the weekend interview where he rambled about quite possibly introducing unspecified stricter measures in parts of the country in a few weeks' time showed him at his very worst. This sort of vacillation actually encourages people to get out and enjoy relative freedom while it lasts, which is exactly the wrong message. We don't need to be gently eased into restrictions like 5-year-olds. Get on with with it!

I am no Boris fan and I think lots of his positions are purely playing to gallery, but I think when it comes to lockdown it is something he genuinely finds goes against his beliefs. All polling says he would get loads of credit for strict lockdown measures, he has loads of political cover, it is advantageous for his premiership to do it, but he clearly finds it nearly impossible to do.

We know he will get there eventually, its a matter of how long and then how many days after he announces it, that the new measures come in. It really should have been announced Saturday, for today.

But if that's the reason I don't think it paints Johnson in any better light. There are no mainstream politicians in any party who relish the notion of closing schools and stopping people doing things like seeing their friends and family. From what I glean, the virus situation and short term prognosis is dire and there is not a shadow of a doubt that we will soon be in a Tier 5+ national lockdown which will last for many weeks.

kinabalu said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

NickPalmer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

I don't dislike Boris personally, but really the weekend interview where he rambled about quite possibly introducing unspecified stricter measures in parts of the country in a few weeks' time showed him at his very worst. This sort of vacillation actually encourages people to get out and enjoy relative freedom while it lasts, which is exactly the wrong message. We don't need to be gently eased into restrictions like 5-year-olds. Get on with with it!

I am no Boris fan and I think lots of his positions are purely playing to gallery, but I think when it comes to lockdown it is something he genuinely finds goes against his beliefs. All polling says he would get loads of credit for strict lockdown measures, he has loads of political cover, it is advantageous for his premiership to do it, but he clearly finds it nearly impossible to do.

We know he will get there eventually, its a matter of how long and then how many days after he announces it, that the new measures come in. It really should have been announced Saturday, for today.

But if that's the reason I don't think it paints Johnson in any better light. There are no mainstream politicians in any party who relish the notion of closing schools and stopping people doing things like seeing their friends and family. From what I glean, the virus situation and short term prognosis is dire and there is not a shadow of a doubt that we will soon be in a Tier 5+ national lockdown which will last for many weeks.

I am not saying it does.I am just saying on this specific issue, I think it one where a strong personal belief causes him to be too slow, rather than so much of Boris flip flopping is about playing to whoever is in the gallery and trying to bullshit because he didn't do the required reading.

He is the wrong person to be a leader for this pandemic.

kinabalu said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

NickPalmer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

I don't dislike Boris personally, but really the weekend interview where he rambled about quite possibly introducing unspecified stricter measures in parts of the country in a few weeks' time showed him at his very worst. This sort of vacillation actually encourages people to get out and enjoy relative freedom while it lasts, which is exactly the wrong message. We don't need to be gently eased into restrictions like 5-year-olds. Get on with with it!

I am no Boris fan and I think lots of his positions are purely playing to gallery, but I think when it comes to lockdown it is something he genuinely finds goes against his beliefs. All polling says he would get loads of credit for strict lockdown measures, he has loads of political cover, it is advantageous for his premiership to do it, but he clearly finds it nearly impossible to do.

We know he will get there eventually, its a matter of how long and then how many days after he announces it, that the new measures come in. It really should have been announced Saturday, for today.

But if that's the reason I don't think it paints Johnson in any better light. There are no mainstream politicians in any party who relish the notion of closing schools and stopping people doing things like seeing their friends and family. From what I glean, the virus situation and short term prognosis is dire and there is not a shadow of a doubt that we will soon be in a Tier 5+ national lockdown which will last for many weeks.

Is there anywhere that one can bet on how long lockdowns, masks, etc will last?

I'm getting a bit fed up of the distorted 'science' and brainwashing and at a guess only 4-5 people on PB are also sceptical. But if I can make some ££ from it, it would cheer me up no end.

kinabalu said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

NickPalmer said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I really don't know what the government are waiting for re a new lockdown.

They have loads of political cover in terms of Cockey Covid and now SA Covid, to brush off claims of but but but you said no new national lockdown ever. And also the polling shows repeatedly that the majority of the public urge on the side of caution when it comes to further restrictions.

I don't dislike Boris personally, but really the weekend interview where he rambled about quite possibly introducing unspecified stricter measures in parts of the country in a few weeks' time showed him at his very worst. This sort of vacillation actually encourages people to get out and enjoy relative freedom while it lasts, which is exactly the wrong message. We don't need to be gently eased into restrictions like 5-year-olds. Get on with with it!

I am no Boris fan and I think lots of his positions are purely playing to gallery, but I think when it comes to lockdown it is something he genuinely finds goes against his beliefs. All polling says he would get loads of credit for strict lockdown measures, he has loads of political cover, it is advantageous for his premiership to do it, but he clearly finds it nearly impossible to do.

We know he will get there eventually, its a matter of how long and then how many days after he announces it, that the new measures come in. It really should have been announced Saturday, for today.

But if that's the reason I don't think it paints Johnson in any better light. There are no mainstream politicians in any party who relish the notion of closing schools and stopping people doing things like seeing their friends and family. From what I glean, the virus situation and short term prognosis is dire and there is not a shadow of a doubt that we will soon be in a Tier 5+ national lockdown which will last for many weeks.

I am no doubt seething with anti BJ prejudice, but I think his deep unwillingness to front up bad news is more of a factor than any problems with his beliefs (whatever they might be). Very unChurchillian.

Anabobazina said:

I see the doom pornographers are out in force again today.

This site really is ruined by people who luxuriate in misery.

Rather than this nonsense, can the government tell us:

1 How many people it will vaccinate this week?
2 How many people it will vaccinate next week?
3 How many people it will vaccinate by the end of the month?
4 How many people it will vaccinate by Valentine's Day?
5 How many people it will vaccinate by 1 March?

Not enough.....

I'm reliably informed that the NHS will have over 1.5m doses of the two vaccines available this week. It's the first big test for the programme to see if we get over 1m people jabbed.

Peter_the_Punter said:

Pulpstar said:

Even money is too short for me here, but the smoke signlas from the early vote are good for the Democrats here.

I understand. I was a GoP backer at evens ubtil recently but I think Trump may have turned it round for the blue team.

I'm on the Dem double at 3.5. Can't seem to put a foot wrong these days.

Now that's what you call tempting fate.

Anabobazina said:

I see the doom pornographers are out in force again today.

This site really is ruined by people who luxuriate in misery.

Rather than this nonsense, can the government tell us:

1 How many people it will vaccinate this week?
2 How many people it will vaccinate next week?
3 How many people it will vaccinate by the end of the month?
4 How many people it will vaccinate by Valentine's Day?
5 How many people it will vaccinate by 1 March?

To answer your questions:
1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No
5. No

This government don't have a fucking clue, and the only thing you can trust them to do is fuck this up and lie to us about it.

Leon said:

Here we go

‘Boris to announce tighter restrictions’ - Sky

Imagine if he has announced this on Saturday, for implemention today. Some credit for taking action. Instead now he gets both barrels from every side.

RochdalePioneers said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1346033731979649027?s=20
https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1346037907107229697?s=20

Interesting data which backs up the hypothesis I have been advancing. Punters in these largely red wall swing states think the government is led by someone who will lie to them, will make the rich richer, won't fund the NHS and won't help them or their area level up.

But they will support him because Brexit. The prize overrules all other considerations - why? Because when you have been sold a catch-all magic wand solution to all your ills you cling onto the illusion even if you know its a lie because thats all you have left.

The previous thread asked how Labour win these voters back. As long as the political paradigm is based on opinions of Brexit I don't see how they can. Yes, you may be offering to tell them the truth and level up and invest and all the other things they want which they know the government not only aren't doing but lying to them about.

But Brexit...

This is why Labour is desperate for the topic of Brexit to go away, while the Tories want to keep it in the news. One question I have is whether bad news stories about Brexit might help Labour in the long run, by gradually chipping away at Red Wall support for Brexit, even if in the short run bringing the topic up helps the Tories. I suspect the answer is yes, but maybe I'm wrong.

MaxPB said:

Anabobazina said:

I see the doom pornographers are out in force again today.

This site really is ruined by people who luxuriate in misery.

Rather than this nonsense, can the government tell us:

1 How many people it will vaccinate this week?
2 How many people it will vaccinate next week?
3 How many people it will vaccinate by the end of the month?
4 How many people it will vaccinate by Valentine's Day?
5 How many people it will vaccinate by 1 March?

The government hasn't got a clue about any of those. It's definitely flying blind on vaccination numbers right now.

Indeed. Hence the attempts to distract from those questions, and people are buying it.

Would the nightingale hospitals by any good as vaccination centres? At least people could have a lie down and a cup of tea if they come over queasy.

Anabobazina said:

MaxPB said:

Anabobazina said:

I see the doom pornographers are out in force again today.

This site really is ruined by people who luxuriate in misery.

Rather than this nonsense, can the government tell us:

1 How many people it will vaccinate this week?
2 How many people it will vaccinate next week?
3 How many people it will vaccinate by the end of the month?
4 How many people it will vaccinate by Valentine's Day?
5 How many people it will vaccinate by 1 March?

The government hasn't got a clue about any of those. It's definitely flying blind on vaccination numbers right now.

Indeed. Hence the attempts to distract from those questions, and people are buying it.

To be fair, AZN promised 30 million by September, then 4 million by end of 2020, and only delivered 500k. The government are in the hands of AZN to actually start producing 2-3 million doses a week.

I am relying on a Hermes delivery for some supplies for a project....I am going to make no promises to Mrs U about when the work will be complete, given how crap they are at actually turning up with the correct items.

https://twitter.com/johnpilger/status/1346054129773371392?s=20