The start of the mass vaccination programme should do wonders for the public mood – politicalbetting
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Already happening on PB, of course ...RochdalePioneers said:
If you are a working class Brexiteer who has stuck it to The Man is there a difference?alex_ said:RochdalePioneers said:
This fishing bloke needs to read the Institute of Government report. A right wing Tory think tank knows far more about fishing than fishing folk, and we've had enough of experts.Theuniondivvie said:Leader of fisher folk on R4 asked by Nick Robinson asked if he was unhappy with BJ’s deal; angry, disappointed and betrayed are better descriptions was the reply.
Govey will be on later to tell him why he was wrong.
Not saying you're wrong, but is the Institute of Government widely regarded as a "right wing Tory think tank"? I thought it specialised in training for Civil Servants?RochdalePioneers said:
This fishing bloke needs to read the Institute of Government report. A right wing Tory think tank knows far more about fishing than fishing folk, and we've had enough of experts.Theuniondivvie said:Leader of fisher folk on R4 asked by Nick Robinson asked if he was unhappy with BJ’s deal; angry, disappointed and betrayed are better descriptions was the reply.
Govey will be on later to tell him why he was wrong.
It used to be a pretty simple concept - an industry knew most about that industry as thats their job. You would have a civil service or politicians to align the needs and interests of the various industries but you didn't try and tell them they were wrong.
Not any more. Fuck business, we have had enough of experts. Red Tape, pointless bureaucracy and costs have suddenly become a Good Thing, and the establishment and its political / administrative overlords don't just know more about fishing or logistics or car manufacturing than these industries, its their job to sweep aside these as "special interest groups".
So we have to cheer on jingoistic crap against foreigners to stand up for fishing AND having screwed fishing over tell the angry fisher men to set aside everything they know and instead read a report from the Institute of Government about fishing.
So is the pattern for 2021. As details of the omnishambles come out the Tories and their parrots will insist the people affected know nothing and instead should accept the benefits of the deal which despite shagging their industry and them personally was actually a Great Triumph for them and their industry according to some report.1 -
Although in fairness, Jean Claude Juncker is the tightest one.Theuniondivvie said:
Britain is exceptional, we have the biggest c***s.IshmaelZ said:
It makes the bold assumption that Whitehall is a little c*** free zone.Gardenwalker said:
Lol.MarqueeMark said:
Boris is a guy who has delivered on listening to a voice of a swathe of people in this country, a swathe who had grown accustomed to that voice being ignored. Those people didn't have many expectations of Brexit making their life a whole lot better. But continually seeing the UK belittled by little c**ts from Luxembourg made their blood boil. We are better than that, they believe.Gardenwalker said:
Brexit was fathered by nostalgic Tories who saw Britain as a global power unfairly shackled to a “sclerotic” Franco-German hegemon. This was - to their way of thinking - a break on natural British competitiveness *and* unseemly for a country of Britain’s exceptionalism.kinabalu said:
Brexit was and is a passive aggressive identity project founded on exceptionalism. This is how I have come to see and understand it. Lots of granular drivers in there, including those you refer to, but for me the overriding umbrella sentiment powering it through to its fruition on Christmas Eve is the feeling that we are not really European. We are England and we're English, both of which are something a little bit special to be. EU membership might be all very well for your run-of-the-mill continentals but not for this sceptered isle. This is a seductive notion. It's bullshit imo but I do recognize its appeal.Foxy said:
Nah, folk will still blame the EU.CarlottaVance said:Yep:
https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1343484062896443393?s=20
With a bit of luck, the removal of the "EU bogeyman" will help us focus on what WE need to do......educate our workforce, make stuff the world wants....
It has never been obvious to me how losing European markets helps gain any market elsewhere.
The main drive for Brexit has always been envy, and for those struggling in left behind areas to take their revenge on their fellow countrymen who have done well in recent years. No-one hates their fellow countryman more than a "patriotic" flag waving Brexiteer.
This mindset - grossly out of date by 2016, if it was ever true - always had a latent hold on suburban and provincial Tory thinking, hence even places like Surrey voting 48% Leave.
But that alone was insufficient to win Brexit.
The other part of the story is 25 years of a globalised economic order (willingly embraced by both Tories and Labour) which has seen clear benefits to London, and the abandonment of much of the rest of the country.
Large scale emigration - effectively part of the same story - from about 2000 - created the “casus bellum” for the man on the Boston omnibus.
In this analysis, interestingly, Boris is not a true Brexiter, just an opportunist who knows his audience.
And they will be thankful to Boris for listening to them - and delivering. He is the first in a very long time to have done so. He has respected where the power lies in this country: with the voters.
Boris couldn’t give a toss about the “swathe of people”, and doesn’t have the ability to deliver for them even if he did. They are “useful idiots” for the ongoing Boris project.
And the “little c*** from Luxembourg” reference is risible. You have clearly read too much Daily Mail.1 -
That isn't what the question asks.Scott_xP said:Are these people traitors? Why do they not believe BoZo and Gove's blizzard of red tape will improve things?
https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1343513242614837249
Considering the Government and all independent models are suggesting that the economy will have recovered from Covid only by the end of 2022, it seems reasonable that the public agree with the government that it will not do so next year.
I suspect many nations (not all) are overly optimistic in believing things will be back to normal by next year. Considering we're only likely to eliminate the worst of restrictions once the year is already at least a quarter completed that seems next-to-impossible.0 -
This doesn’t seem v acceptable.Scott_xP said:
It should be a basic principle that once can carry money without hindrance inside a single sovereign territory.2 -
The Times haven't published the letter, only one very brief extract - so its impossible to say whether the contents of the letter back up their assertion.Cyclefree said:
Understood. But the way the article is written suggests that the FCO is now saying that even someone who is only a British citizen is not entitled to help.CarlottaVance said:
I've read the article. She's a dual citizen in a country that does not recognise dual citizenship. As far as Iran is concerned she's Iranian.Cyclefree said:
The article is not very clear but seems to imply that no British citizen is entitled to help not just those who are dual citizens. If so, what in earth is the value in a British passport?CarlottaVance said:
Can't read the whole article but the UK government has been clear for years that it cannot protect dual nationals in their other nationality country. If you want British protection in your other country you have to renounce that country nationality.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, yes, the PM and government have done well.
Off topic, the government, and the Foreign Office in particular, have just overturned centuries of precedent, all because Boris Johnson screwed up, I take back all those nice things I said in 2020 about Dominic Raab.
https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1343468421934174210
Poor Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe has been well and truly fucked over by Boris Johnson once more.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqUKaC-W4AECliU?format=jpg&name=large
Dual citizenship can be an advantage - but the big disadvantage is no help from Britain in the country of your other citizenship - and that is something the UK government has been very clear on for years.0 -
That and three or four decades prior research into particular vaccine technologies.Philip_Thompson said:
Proving once again, in case it were needed, that necessity is the mother of invention.DavidL said:
What I have found really strange is that our vaccines for the flu have been relatively ineffective over the years, better some than others and dependent upon a fair amount of guesswork as to what the dominant strand is going to be in any particular year. So far, the success rate with vaccines against Covid seems to be much, much higher and a variety of different techniques have all produced pretty similar results.CarlottaVance said:Missed this over Christmas - the UK is starting a COVID challenge trial with the Imperial vaccine:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9087305/The-volunteers-DELIBERATELY-catching-Covid.html
Has our flu efforts just been half-hearted and underfunded, has the wall of money thrown at Covid produced some genuinely new breakthroughs, or have we just been surprisingly lucky? I get the impression that the world has learned a huge amount about the spread and DNA of viruses through this pandemic. Hopefully this will spill into other areas once the immediate panic is over.0 -
Scott_xP said:
BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1343512107715878914
Look on the bright side - headlines like this will help Macron et al sell it at home.....1 -
Not really.Sandpit said:
All of the above. Medical science has learned a decade’s worth of innovation this year.DavidL said:
What I have found really strange is that our vaccines for the flu have been relatively ineffective over the years, better some than others and dependent upon a fair amount of guesswork as to what the dominant strand is going to be in any particular year. So far, the success rate with vaccines against Covid seems to be much, much higher and a variety of different techniques have all produced pretty similar results.CarlottaVance said:Missed this over Christmas - the UK is starting a COVID challenge trial with the Imperial vaccine:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9087305/The-volunteers-DELIBERATELY-catching-Covid.html
Has our flu efforts just been half-hearted and underfunded, has the wall of money thrown at Covid produced some genuinely new breakthroughs, or have we just been surprisingly lucky? I get the impression that the world has learned a huge amount about the spread and DNA of viruses through this pandemic. Hopefully this will spill into other areas once the immediate panic is over.
It’s just that particular efforts have received what would normally be a decade’s worth of funding.0 -
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/13435121077158789142 -
Another example of you not understanding how Parliamentary democracy works.Philip_Thompson said:
If the voters are unhappy with that they get a say no later than 2024.Cyclefree said:
"With the voters"Gardenwalker said:
Lol.MarqueeMark said:
Boris is a guy who has delivered on listening to a voice of a swathe of people in this country, a swathe who had grown accustomed to that voice being ignored. Those people didn't have many expectations of Brexit making their life a whole lot better. But continually seeing the UK belittled by little c**ts from Luxembourg made their blood boil. We are better than that, they believe.Gardenwalker said:
Brexit was fathered by nostalgic Tories who saw Britain as a global power unfairly shackled to a “sclerotic” Franco-German hegemon. This was - to their way of thinking - a break on natural British competitiveness *and* unseemly for a country of Britain’s exceptionalism.kinabalu said:
Brexit was and is a passive aggressive identity project founded on exceptionalism. This is how I have come to see and understand it. Lots of granular drivers in there, including those you refer to, but for me the overriding umbrella sentiment powering it through to its fruition on Christmas Eve is the feeling that we are not really European. We are England and we're English, both of which are something a little bit special to be. EU membership might be all very well for your run-of-the-mill continentals but not for this sceptered isle. This is a seductive notion. It's bullshit imo but I do recognize its appeal.Foxy said:
Nah, folk will still blame the EU.CarlottaVance said:Yep:
https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1343484062896443393?s=20
With a bit of luck, the removal of the "EU bogeyman" will help us focus on what WE need to do......educate our workforce, make stuff the world wants....
It has never been obvious to me how losing European markets helps gain any market elsewhere.
The main drive for Brexit has always been envy, and for those struggling in left behind areas to take their revenge on their fellow countrymen who have done well in recent years. No-one hates their fellow countryman more than a "patriotic" flag waving Brexiteer.
This mindset - grossly out of date by 2016, if it was ever true - always had a latent hold on suburban and provincial Tory thinking, hence even places like Surrey voting 48% Leave.
But that alone was insufficient to win Brexit.
The other part of the story is 25 years of a globalised economic order (willingly embraced by both Tories and Labour) which has seen clear benefits to London, and the abandonment of much of the rest of the country.
Large scale emigration - effectively part of the same story - from about 2000 - created the “casus bellum” for the man on the Boston omnibus.
In this analysis, interestingly, Boris is not a true Brexiter, just an opportunist who knows his audience.
And they will be thankful to Boris for listening to them - and delivering. He is the first in a very long time to have done so. He has respected where the power lies in this country: with the voters.
Boris couldn’t give a toss about the “swathe of people”, and doesn’t have the ability to deliver for them even if he did. They are “useful idiots” for the ongoing Boris project.
And the “little c*** from Luxembourg” reference is risible. You have clearly read too much Daily Mail.
That's why at every stage Boris has done what he can to avoid the people's representatives - MPs in Parliament - from having any say or scrutiny.0 -
It isn't stupidity. It is rank entitlement of the highest order.YBarddCwsc said:
Skiers Behaving Badly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
Amazing that there are still people travelling from the UK to go skiing. And now they want their refunds after evading Swiss quarantine illegally. Let them GF themselves.
There is stupidity; there is blonde-shocked Johnsonian stupidity; there is monumental incoherent Trumpian stupidity.
And finally there is the stupidity of the skiers who need to have their selfish time in the mountains, even as pandemic rages.5 -
Big frigging deal.Scott_xP said:
How often are you carrying >€10,000 in your pockets or a briefcase when visiting Northern Ireland?0 -
BoZo promised them the World.Gardenwalker said:I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset.
He didn't deliver.
They will not be the last group to experience this...0 -
It’s the principle.Philip_Thompson said:
Big frigging deal.Scott_xP said:
How often are you carrying >€10,000 in your pockets or a briefcase when visiting Northern Ireland?
Surely as a Brexiter you should understand that.5 -
One week off school isn't going to cut it.
Maximum disruption for minimal benefit.0 -
I do.Cyclefree said:
Another example of you not understanding how Parliamentary democracy works.Philip_Thompson said:
If the voters are unhappy with that they get a say no later than 2024.Cyclefree said:
"With the voters"Gardenwalker said:
Lol.MarqueeMark said:
Boris is a guy who has delivered on listening to a voice of a swathe of people in this country, a swathe who had grown accustomed to that voice being ignored. Those people didn't have many expectations of Brexit making their life a whole lot better. But continually seeing the UK belittled by little c**ts from Luxembourg made their blood boil. We are better than that, they believe.Gardenwalker said:
Brexit was fathered by nostalgic Tories who saw Britain as a global power unfairly shackled to a “sclerotic” Franco-German hegemon. This was - to their way of thinking - a break on natural British competitiveness *and* unseemly for a country of Britain’s exceptionalism.kinabalu said:
Brexit was and is a passive aggressive identity project founded on exceptionalism. This is how I have come to see and understand it. Lots of granular drivers in there, including those you refer to, but for me the overriding umbrella sentiment powering it through to its fruition on Christmas Eve is the feeling that we are not really European. We are England and we're English, both of which are something a little bit special to be. EU membership might be all very well for your run-of-the-mill continentals but not for this sceptered isle. This is a seductive notion. It's bullshit imo but I do recognize its appeal.Foxy said:
Nah, folk will still blame the EU.CarlottaVance said:Yep:
https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1343484062896443393?s=20
With a bit of luck, the removal of the "EU bogeyman" will help us focus on what WE need to do......educate our workforce, make stuff the world wants....
It has never been obvious to me how losing European markets helps gain any market elsewhere.
The main drive for Brexit has always been envy, and for those struggling in left behind areas to take their revenge on their fellow countrymen who have done well in recent years. No-one hates their fellow countryman more than a "patriotic" flag waving Brexiteer.
This mindset - grossly out of date by 2016, if it was ever true - always had a latent hold on suburban and provincial Tory thinking, hence even places like Surrey voting 48% Leave.
But that alone was insufficient to win Brexit.
The other part of the story is 25 years of a globalised economic order (willingly embraced by both Tories and Labour) which has seen clear benefits to London, and the abandonment of much of the rest of the country.
Large scale emigration - effectively part of the same story - from about 2000 - created the “casus bellum” for the man on the Boston omnibus.
In this analysis, interestingly, Boris is not a true Brexiter, just an opportunist who knows his audience.
And they will be thankful to Boris for listening to them - and delivering. He is the first in a very long time to have done so. He has respected where the power lies in this country: with the voters.
Boris couldn’t give a toss about the “swathe of people”, and doesn’t have the ability to deliver for them even if he did. They are “useful idiots” for the ongoing Boris project.
And the “little c*** from Luxembourg” reference is risible. You have clearly read too much Daily Mail.
That's why at every stage Boris has done what he can to avoid the people's representatives - MPs in Parliament - from having any say or scrutiny.
Voters vote for MPs.
MPs vote for the Government.
The Government requires MPs votes to change the law.
The MPs can vote down the Government any time it chooses if its unhappy with how the Government is exercising its powers.
At an election if the voters are unhappy with the Government - or unhappy with the MPs who make up and scrutinise the Government - they can vote for new ones.
Democracy in action.1 -
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/13435121077158789145 -
QTWAIN.Gardenwalker said:
It’s the principle.Philip_Thompson said:
Big frigging deal.Scott_xP said:
How often are you carrying >€10,000 in your pockets or a briefcase when visiting Northern Ireland?
Surely as a Brexiter you should understand that.
I couldn't care less. There's dozens of areas around the world that have alternative arrangements or require declarations based upon geographical differences within the nation.
If the Northern Irish are unhappy with these arrangements they can elect an Assembly that votes to terminate them. Their choice, entrusted to them. Not you, not Boris, not me - they and they alone choose whether it continues every four years.0 -
LOL are you telling an expert in the law they don't know what they're talking about, ROFLPhilip_Thompson said:
I do.Cyclefree said:
Another example of you not understanding how Parliamentary democracy works.Philip_Thompson said:
If the voters are unhappy with that they get a say no later than 2024.Cyclefree said:
"With the voters"Gardenwalker said:
Lol.MarqueeMark said:
Boris is a guy who has delivered on listening to a voice of a swathe of people in this country, a swathe who had grown accustomed to that voice being ignored. Those people didn't have many expectations of Brexit making their life a whole lot better. But continually seeing the UK belittled by little c**ts from Luxembourg made their blood boil. We are better than that, they believe.Gardenwalker said:
Brexit was fathered by nostalgic Tories who saw Britain as a global power unfairly shackled to a “sclerotic” Franco-German hegemon. This was - to their way of thinking - a break on natural British competitiveness *and* unseemly for a country of Britain’s exceptionalism.kinabalu said:
Brexit was and is a passive aggressive identity project founded on exceptionalism. This is how I have come to see and understand it. Lots of granular drivers in there, including those you refer to, but for me the overriding umbrella sentiment powering it through to its fruition on Christmas Eve is the feeling that we are not really European. We are England and we're English, both of which are something a little bit special to be. EU membership might be all very well for your run-of-the-mill continentals but not for this sceptered isle. This is a seductive notion. It's bullshit imo but I do recognize its appeal.Foxy said:
Nah, folk will still blame the EU.CarlottaVance said:Yep:
https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1343484062896443393?s=20
With a bit of luck, the removal of the "EU bogeyman" will help us focus on what WE need to do......educate our workforce, make stuff the world wants....
It has never been obvious to me how losing European markets helps gain any market elsewhere.
The main drive for Brexit has always been envy, and for those struggling in left behind areas to take their revenge on their fellow countrymen who have done well in recent years. No-one hates their fellow countryman more than a "patriotic" flag waving Brexiteer.
This mindset - grossly out of date by 2016, if it was ever true - always had a latent hold on suburban and provincial Tory thinking, hence even places like Surrey voting 48% Leave.
But that alone was insufficient to win Brexit.
The other part of the story is 25 years of a globalised economic order (willingly embraced by both Tories and Labour) which has seen clear benefits to London, and the abandonment of much of the rest of the country.
Large scale emigration - effectively part of the same story - from about 2000 - created the “casus bellum” for the man on the Boston omnibus.
In this analysis, interestingly, Boris is not a true Brexiter, just an opportunist who knows his audience.
And they will be thankful to Boris for listening to them - and delivering. He is the first in a very long time to have done so. He has respected where the power lies in this country: with the voters.
Boris couldn’t give a toss about the “swathe of people”, and doesn’t have the ability to deliver for them even if he did. They are “useful idiots” for the ongoing Boris project.
And the “little c*** from Luxembourg” reference is risible. You have clearly read too much Daily Mail.
That's why at every stage Boris has done what he can to avoid the people's representatives - MPs in Parliament - from having any say or scrutiny.
Voters vote for MPs.
MPs vote for the Government.
The Government requires MPs votes to change the law.
The MPs can vote down the Government any time it chooses if its unhappy with how the Government is exercising its powers.
At an election if the voters are unhappy with the Government - or unhappy with the MPs who make up and scrutinise the Government - they can vote for new ones.
Democracy in action.0 -
I consider myself on the optimistic side and I forecast 6% growth in 2021. As the economy is 10% smaller I would have answered in the negative. This also shows the meaningless nature of the question. Different economies have been affected in very different ways. As a service based economy we have been particularly badly hit. China, in comparison, has pretty much recovered already.Philip_Thompson said:
That isn't what the question asks.Scott_xP said:Are these people traitors? Why do they not believe BoZo and Gove's blizzard of red tape will improve things?
https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1343513242614837249
Considering the Government and all independent models are suggesting that the economy will have recovered from Covid only by the end of 2022, it seems reasonable that the public agree with the government that it will not do so next year.
I suspect many nations (not all) are overly optimistic in believing things will be back to normal by next year. Considering we're only likely to eliminate the worst of restrictions once the year is already at least a quarter completed that seems next-to-impossible.1 -
Where have I said they were my views? I am reporting what was heard extensively on the doorsteps September to December last year. Now admittedly, haven't been out getting the voters' views this year, for good reason. But I doubt views towards little c***s from Luxembourg on matters such as this have changed much in the interim:Gardenwalker said:
Lol.MarqueeMark said:
Boris is a guy who has delivered on listening to a voice of a swathe of people in this country, a swathe who had grown accustomed to that voice being ignored. Those people didn't have many expectations of Brexit making their life a whole lot better. But continually seeing the UK belittled by little c**ts from Luxembourg made their blood boil. We are better than that, they believe.Gardenwalker said:
Brexit was fathered by nostalgic Tories who saw Britain as a global power unfairly shackled to a “sclerotic” Franco-German hegemon. This was - to their way of thinking - a break on natural British competitiveness *and* unseemly for a country of Britain’s exceptionalism.kinabalu said:
Brexit was and is a passive aggressive identity project founded on exceptionalism. This is how I have come to see and understand it. Lots of granular drivers in there, including those you refer to, but for me the overriding umbrella sentiment powering it through to its fruition on Christmas Eve is the feeling that we are not really European. We are England and we're English, both of which are something a little bit special to be. EU membership might be all very well for your run-of-the-mill continentals but not for this sceptered isle. This is a seductive notion. It's bullshit imo but I do recognize its appeal.Foxy said:
Nah, folk will still blame the EU.CarlottaVance said:Yep:
https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1343484062896443393?s=20
With a bit of luck, the removal of the "EU bogeyman" will help us focus on what WE need to do......educate our workforce, make stuff the world wants....
It has never been obvious to me how losing European markets helps gain any market elsewhere.
The main drive for Brexit has always been envy, and for those struggling in left behind areas to take their revenge on their fellow countrymen who have done well in recent years. No-one hates their fellow countryman more than a "patriotic" flag waving Brexiteer.
This mindset - grossly out of date by 2016, if it was ever true - always had a latent hold on suburban and provincial Tory thinking, hence even places like Surrey voting 48% Leave.
But that alone was insufficient to win Brexit.
The other part of the story is 25 years of a globalised economic order (willingly embraced by both Tories and Labour) which has seen clear benefits to London, and the abandonment of much of the rest of the country.
Large scale emigration - effectively part of the same story - from about 2000 - created the “casus bellum” for the man on the Boston omnibus.
In this analysis, interestingly, Boris is not a true Brexiter, just an opportunist who knows his audience.
And they will be thankful to Boris for listening to them - and delivering. He is the first in a very long time to have done so. He has respected where the power lies in this country: with the voters.
Boris couldn’t give a toss about the “swathe of people”, and doesn’t have the ability to deliver for them even if he did. They are “useful idiots” for the ongoing Boris project.
And the “little c*** from Luxembourg” reference is risible. You have clearly read too much Daily Mail.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/18/eus-leaders-trying-humiliate-britain-not-negotiate-us/
Nor to Boris forging a deal that gets them out of their lives to a very large degree.
The views of the wider electorate are often very poorly represented on this site. I have a record I am happy to stand on when reporting them back here.0 -
Shockingly ungrateful of all those industry leaders and trawler owners to parade on the radio and tv and papers talking of betrayal and disappointment. I'm sure a good chat with Govey will bring them round.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/13435121077158789141 -
QTWAIN.CorrectHorseBattery said:
LOL are you telling an expert in the law they don't know what they're talking about, ROFLPhilip_Thompson said:
I do.Cyclefree said:
Another example of you not understanding how Parliamentary democracy works.Philip_Thompson said:
If the voters are unhappy with that they get a say no later than 2024.Cyclefree said:
"With the voters"Gardenwalker said:
Lol.MarqueeMark said:
Boris is a guy who has delivered on listening to a voice of a swathe of people in this country, a swathe who had grown accustomed to that voice being ignored. Those people didn't have many expectations of Brexit making their life a whole lot better. But continually seeing the UK belittled by little c**ts from Luxembourg made their blood boil. We are better than that, they believe.Gardenwalker said:
Brexit was fathered by nostalgic Tories who saw Britain as a global power unfairly shackled to a “sclerotic” Franco-German hegemon. This was - to their way of thinking - a break on natural British competitiveness *and* unseemly for a country of Britain’s exceptionalism.kinabalu said:
Brexit was and is a passive aggressive identity project founded on exceptionalism. This is how I have come to see and understand it. Lots of granular drivers in there, including those you refer to, but for me the overriding umbrella sentiment powering it through to its fruition on Christmas Eve is the feeling that we are not really European. We are England and we're English, both of which are something a little bit special to be. EU membership might be all very well for your run-of-the-mill continentals but not for this sceptered isle. This is a seductive notion. It's bullshit imo but I do recognize its appeal.Foxy said:
Nah, folk will still blame the EU.CarlottaVance said:Yep:
https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1343484062896443393?s=20
With a bit of luck, the removal of the "EU bogeyman" will help us focus on what WE need to do......educate our workforce, make stuff the world wants....
It has never been obvious to me how losing European markets helps gain any market elsewhere.
The main drive for Brexit has always been envy, and for those struggling in left behind areas to take their revenge on their fellow countrymen who have done well in recent years. No-one hates their fellow countryman more than a "patriotic" flag waving Brexiteer.
This mindset - grossly out of date by 2016, if it was ever true - always had a latent hold on suburban and provincial Tory thinking, hence even places like Surrey voting 48% Leave.
But that alone was insufficient to win Brexit.
The other part of the story is 25 years of a globalised economic order (willingly embraced by both Tories and Labour) which has seen clear benefits to London, and the abandonment of much of the rest of the country.
Large scale emigration - effectively part of the same story - from about 2000 - created the “casus bellum” for the man on the Boston omnibus.
In this analysis, interestingly, Boris is not a true Brexiter, just an opportunist who knows his audience.
And they will be thankful to Boris for listening to them - and delivering. He is the first in a very long time to have done so. He has respected where the power lies in this country: with the voters.
Boris couldn’t give a toss about the “swathe of people”, and doesn’t have the ability to deliver for them even if he did. They are “useful idiots” for the ongoing Boris project.
And the “little c*** from Luxembourg” reference is risible. You have clearly read too much Daily Mail.
That's why at every stage Boris has done what he can to avoid the people's representatives - MPs in Parliament - from having any say or scrutiny.
Voters vote for MPs.
MPs vote for the Government.
The Government requires MPs votes to change the law.
The MPs can vote down the Government any time it chooses if its unhappy with how the Government is exercising its powers.
At an election if the voters are unhappy with the Government - or unhappy with the MPs who make up and scrutinise the Government - they can vote for new ones.
Democracy in action.
She said that I didn't understand how it works. I said I do and demonstrated it. I never questioned her understanding, I'm not that arrogant or lacking in self-confidence that I feel a requirement to undermine others.
Boris can only act as he does because the MPs let him. The MPs only let him because they want to and because public voted for those MPs. If the public is unhappy they can vote for different MPs no later than 2024.
The fact is under our Parliamentary Democracy that Boris is only one MP. If he loses the confidence of the House he is gone. The power rests ultimately with the MPs who can oust him - as they did Thatcher and May. The power reverts to the voters who get to choose new MPs no later than 2024.0 -
It's been a legal requirement when leaving Guernsey since 2007:Gardenwalker said:
This doesn’t seem v acceptable.Scott_xP said:
It should be a basic principle that once can carry money without hindrance inside a single sovereign territory.
https://www.gov.gg/article/152734/Declaring-cash
Though since the UK has left the EU its changed the Euro 10,000 to £10,000
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/712/regulation/2/made
I expect Guernsey will change to GBP in due course.1 -
If you had offered the fisherfolk this deal 5 years ago, they would have grabbed it.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/13435121077158789143 -
I've said before that the people most likely to take foreign holidays this year are the people most likely to ignore restrictions before their holiday, during their holiday and after their holiday.dixiedean said:
It isn't stupidity. It is rank entitlement of the highest order.YBarddCwsc said:
Skiers Behaving Badly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
Amazing that there are still people travelling from the UK to go skiing. And now they want their refunds after evading Swiss quarantine illegally. Let them GF themselves.
There is stupidity; there is blonde-shocked Johnsonian stupidity; there is monumental incoherent Trumpian stupidity.
And finally there is the stupidity of the skiers who need to have their selfish time in the mountains, even as pandemic rages.3 -
How's that time machine in the shed going?MarqueeMark said:
If you had offered the fisherfolk this deal 5 years ago, they would have grabbed it.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/13435121077158789140 -
What legitimate reasons (i.e. unrelated to tax evasion) are there to carry over £10,000 in cash? Unless one expects a bank collapse, it seems a bonkers security risk.CarlottaVance said:
It's been a legal requirement when leaving Guernsey since 2007:Gardenwalker said:
This doesn’t seem v acceptable.Scott_xP said:
It should be a basic principle that once can carry money without hindrance inside a single sovereign territory.
https://www.gov.gg/article/152734/Declaring-cash
Though since the UK has left the EU its changed the Euro 10,000 to £10,000
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/712/regulation/2/made
I expect Guernsey will change to GBP in due course.1 -
I bet they nearly all voted Remain.....YBarddCwsc said:
Skiers Behaving Badly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
Amazing that there are still people travelling from the UK to go skiing. And now they want their refunds after evading Swiss quarantine illegally. Let them GF themselves.
There is stupidity; there is blonde-shocked Johnsonian stupidity; there is monumental incoherent Trumpian stupidity.
And finally there is the stupidity of the skiers who need to have their selfish time in the mountains, even as pandemic rages.1 -
Any changes to food prices after Brexit are likely to be "very modest indeed" under the deal struck between the UK and the EU, the chairman of Tesco has said.
John Allan told the BBC that it would "hardly be felt in terms of the prices that consumers are paying".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55460948
Yet again those with BDS have overplayed their hand with their predictions of food shortages and food price rises.3 -
People don't do gratitude.MarqueeMark said:
If you had offered the fisherfolk this deal 5 years ago, they would have grabbed it.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/13435121077158789141 -
I have in the past going from the business to the nearest bank. It isn't something I'd want to do over long distances by any means.NickPalmer said:
What legitimate reasons (i.e. unrelated to tax evasion) are there to carry over £10,000 in cash? Unless one expects a bank collapse, it seems a bonkers security risk.CarlottaVance said:
It's been a legal requirement when leaving Guernsey since 2007:Gardenwalker said:
This doesn’t seem v acceptable.Scott_xP said:
It should be a basic principle that once can carry money without hindrance inside a single sovereign territory.
https://www.gov.gg/article/152734/Declaring-cash
Though since the UK has left the EU its changed the Euro 10,000 to £10,000
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/712/regulation/2/made
I expect Guernsey will change to GBP in due course.
Even just travelling within a town or city to the nearest bank it is rather uncomfortable.0 -
I'm somewhat stuck on the use of 'legitimate' here. In the absence of proof of it being for ill reasons, why should it be assumed to be illegitimate even if it is bonkers? We're not american cops looking to take cash under the guise of civil forfeiture.NickPalmer said:
What legitimate reasons (i.e. unrelated to tax evasion) are there to carry over £10,000 in cash? Unless one expects a bank collapse, it seems a bonkers security risk.CarlottaVance said:
It's been a legal requirement when leaving Guernsey since 2007:Gardenwalker said:
This doesn’t seem v acceptable.Scott_xP said:
It should be a basic principle that once can carry money without hindrance inside a single sovereign territory.
https://www.gov.gg/article/152734/Declaring-cash
Though since the UK has left the EU its changed the Euro 10,000 to £10,000
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/712/regulation/2/made
I expect Guernsey will change to GBP in due course.1 -
That was before the Brexit vote! Of course their expectations were much lower then - partly the fact of the vote itself, and partly the promises of the Brexiteers caused their expectations to go up enormously.MarqueeMark said:
If you had offered the fisherfolk this deal 5 years ago, they would have grabbed it.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/13435121077158789140 -
I'll let you know when I've lent Bill Gates his first 50k start-up money....Theuniondivvie said:
How's that time machine in the shed going?MarqueeMark said:
If you had offered the fisherfolk this deal 5 years ago, they would have grabbed it.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/13435121077158789144 -
But don't listen to experts like the Chairman of Tesco.another_richard said:Any changes to food prices after Brexit are likely to be "very modest indeed" under the deal struck between the UK and the EU, the chairman of Tesco has said.
John Allan told the BBC that it would "hardly be felt in terms of the prices that consumers are paying".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55460948
Yet again those with BDS have overplayed their hand with their predictions of food shortages and food price rises.
@RochdalePioneers has assured us all that as of next week life will collapse as we know it as the border grinds to a halt outside the customs area, the border collapses and supermarkets collapse under the strain with empty shelves.
The Chairman of Tesco clearly needs to listen to the experts here on what a disaster he isn't seeing coming.1 -
Just so we’re clear, is that your take or “the ordinary public’s”?MarqueeMark said:
I bet they nearly all voted Remain.....YBarddCwsc said:
Skiers Behaving Badly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
Amazing that there are still people travelling from the UK to go skiing. And now they want their refunds after evading Swiss quarantine illegally. Let them GF themselves.
There is stupidity; there is blonde-shocked Johnsonian stupidity; there is monumental incoherent Trumpian stupidity.
And finally there is the stupidity of the skiers who need to have their selfish time in the mountains, even as pandemic rages.0 -
Ok, but Guernsey is not the U.K.CarlottaVance said:
It's been a legal requirement when leaving Guernsey since 2007:Gardenwalker said:
This doesn’t seem v acceptable.Scott_xP said:
It should be a basic principle that once can carry money without hindrance inside a single sovereign territory.
https://www.gov.gg/article/152734/Declaring-cash
Though since the UK has left the EU its changed the Euro 10,000 to £10,000
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/712/regulation/2/made
I expect Guernsey will change to GBP in due course.0 -
RP pointed out yesterday it's likely to be positioning Tesco for arguments with its suppliers etc. - if prices go up, not my fault guv sort of stuff.another_richard said:Any changes to food prices after Brexit are likely to be "very modest indeed" under the deal struck between the UK and the EU, the chairman of Tesco has said.
John Allan told the BBC that it would "hardly be felt in terms of the prices that consumers are paying".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55460948
Yet again those with BDS have overplayed their hand with their predictions of food shortages and food price rises.0 -
People saying we need to move on seem to spend an awful time discussing Brexit.
Schools must not go back until the virus is properly under control. The Government will do this anyway, so why delay?0 -
Care to point out who said there would be significant price rises on food in the event of a free-trade deal?another_richard said:Any changes to food prices after Brexit are likely to be "very modest indeed" under the deal struck between the UK and the EU, the chairman of Tesco has said.
John Allan told the BBC that it would "hardly be felt in terms of the prices that consumers are paying".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55460948
Yet again those with BDS have overplayed their hand with their predictions of food shortages and food price rises.2 -
I suspect they wanted to be given extra quotas which they could have sold on for a quick profit.Theuniondivvie said:
Shockingly ungrateful of all those industry leaders and trawler owners to parade on the radio and tv and papers talking of betrayal and disappointment. I'm sure a good chat with Govey will bring them round.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/13435121077158789140 -
I'm pretty grateful for BJ and his ability to promise and not to deliver, does that count?kle4 said:
People don't do gratitude.MarqueeMark said:
If you had offered the fisherfolk this deal 5 years ago, they would have grabbed it.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/13435121077158789140 -
Well its a lot better than the SNP commitment to get them back in the CFP sharpish, that's for sure.Theuniondivvie said:
Shockingly ungrateful of all those industry leaders and trawler owners to parade on the radio and tv and papers talking of betrayal and disappointment. I'm sure a good chat with Govey will bring them round.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/13435121077158789141 -
@RochdalePioneers for starters.Gallowgate said:
Care to point out who said there would be significant price rises on food in the event of a free-trade deal?another_richard said:Any changes to food prices after Brexit are likely to be "very modest indeed" under the deal struck between the UK and the EU, the chairman of Tesco has said.
John Allan told the BBC that it would "hardly be felt in terms of the prices that consumers are paying".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55460948
Yet again those with BDS have overplayed their hand with their predictions of food shortages and food price rises.
He says that even a deal will be a disaster if we are outside of the customs area.0 -
They were promised so much more.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1343512107715878914
That will be the difficulty for the government. As far as I can tell, the government achieved its own aims ie a deal which said how much it respected Britain's sovereignty - hence all the warm words from Ursula on this.
But it is the gap between what it promised its voters - or what they thought it promised them - and what it actually delivers which will determine how successful it is. Or is perceived to be.
And that will not be assessed now but in the weeks and months ahead.
Thee will be three levels of assessment:
(1) Does it avoid chaos or anticipated difficulties?
(2) Does it impose extra bureaucracy and costs on exporters and who bears those costs?
(3) Does it bring benefits for people which the government could not previously have done because the EU prevented it and do those benefits accrue to those who voted for Brexit?
(1) Probably - by comparison with No Deal.
(2) Yes - Michael Gove was proudly proclaiming this today. A mixture of exporters and consumers will bear the costs.
(3) Who knows. We already had here yesterday people claiming that making it easier for non-EU spouses of British citizens to live here was an advantage of Brexit when in fact the EU did not prevent this at all. I expect more such claims. What other advantages there will be and who benefits remains to be seen.2 -
Really? They seemed highly motivated to Leave at the first opportunity.MarqueeMark said:
I bet they nearly all voted Remain.....YBarddCwsc said:
Skiers Behaving Badly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
Amazing that there are still people travelling from the UK to go skiing. And now they want their refunds after evading Swiss quarantine illegally. Let them GF themselves.
There is stupidity; there is blonde-shocked Johnsonian stupidity; there is monumental incoherent Trumpian stupidity.
And finally there is the stupidity of the skiers who need to have their selfish time in the mountains, even as pandemic rages.0 -
How unusual of you not to have claimed them for Scotland.....Theuniondivvie said:
Britain is exceptional, we have the biggest c***s.IshmaelZ said:
It makes the bold assumption that Whitehall is a little c*** free zone.Gardenwalker said:
Lol.MarqueeMark said:
Boris is a guy who has delivered on listening to a voice of a swathe of people in this country, a swathe who had grown accustomed to that voice being ignored. Those people didn't have many expectations of Brexit making their life a whole lot better. But continually seeing the UK belittled by little c**ts from Luxembourg made their blood boil. We are better than that, they believe.Gardenwalker said:
Brexit was fathered by nostalgic Tories who saw Britain as a global power unfairly shackled to a “sclerotic” Franco-German hegemon. This was - to their way of thinking - a break on natural British competitiveness *and* unseemly for a country of Britain’s exceptionalism.kinabalu said:
Brexit was and is a passive aggressive identity project founded on exceptionalism. This is how I have come to see and understand it. Lots of granular drivers in there, including those you refer to, but for me the overriding umbrella sentiment powering it through to its fruition on Christmas Eve is the feeling that we are not really European. We are England and we're English, both of which are something a little bit special to be. EU membership might be all very well for your run-of-the-mill continentals but not for this sceptered isle. This is a seductive notion. It's bullshit imo but I do recognize its appeal.Foxy said:
Nah, folk will still blame the EU.CarlottaVance said:Yep:
https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1343484062896443393?s=20
With a bit of luck, the removal of the "EU bogeyman" will help us focus on what WE need to do......educate our workforce, make stuff the world wants....
It has never been obvious to me how losing European markets helps gain any market elsewhere.
The main drive for Brexit has always been envy, and for those struggling in left behind areas to take their revenge on their fellow countrymen who have done well in recent years. No-one hates their fellow countryman more than a "patriotic" flag waving Brexiteer.
This mindset - grossly out of date by 2016, if it was ever true - always had a latent hold on suburban and provincial Tory thinking, hence even places like Surrey voting 48% Leave.
But that alone was insufficient to win Brexit.
The other part of the story is 25 years of a globalised economic order (willingly embraced by both Tories and Labour) which has seen clear benefits to London, and the abandonment of much of the rest of the country.
Large scale emigration - effectively part of the same story - from about 2000 - created the “casus bellum” for the man on the Boston omnibus.
In this analysis, interestingly, Boris is not a true Brexiter, just an opportunist who knows his audience.
And they will be thankful to Boris for listening to them - and delivering. He is the first in a very long time to have done so. He has respected where the power lies in this country: with the voters.
Boris couldn’t give a toss about the “swathe of people”, and doesn’t have the ability to deliver for them even if he did. They are “useful idiots” for the ongoing Boris project.
And the “little c*** from Luxembourg” reference is risible. You have clearly read too much Daily Mail.2 -
No, because you don't reward him in that gratitude.Theuniondivvie said:
I'm pretty grateful for BJ and his ability to promise and not to deliver, does that count?kle4 said:
People don't do gratitude.MarqueeMark said:
If you had offered the fisherfolk this deal 5 years ago, they would have grabbed it.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/13435121077158789140 -
Money laundering, the drug trade, bribery and corruption, there are lots of good reasons. 😉NickPalmer said:
What legitimate reasons (i.e. unrelated to tax evasion) are there to carry over £10,000 in cash? Unless one expects a bank collapse, it seems a bonkers security risk.CarlottaVance said:
It's been a legal requirement when leaving Guernsey since 2007:Gardenwalker said:
This doesn’t seem v acceptable.Scott_xP said:
It should be a basic principle that once can carry money without hindrance inside a single sovereign territory.
https://www.gov.gg/article/152734/Declaring-cash
Though since the UK has left the EU its changed the Euro 10,000 to £10,000
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/712/regulation/2/made
I expect Guernsey will change to GBP in due course.0 -
Given some of the activities in Northern Ireland the restriction seems a good idea.NickPalmer said:
What legitimate reasons (i.e. unrelated to tax evasion) are there to carry over £10,000 in cash? Unless one expects a bank collapse, it seems a bonkers security risk.CarlottaVance said:
It's been a legal requirement when leaving Guernsey since 2007:Gardenwalker said:
This doesn’t seem v acceptable.Scott_xP said:
It should be a basic principle that once can carry money without hindrance inside a single sovereign territory.
https://www.gov.gg/article/152734/Declaring-cash
Though since the UK has left the EU its changed the Euro 10,000 to £10,000
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/712/regulation/2/made
I expect Guernsey will change to GBP in due course.0 -
If only.dixiedean said:
Really? They seemed highly motivated to Leave at the first opportunity.MarqueeMark said:
I bet they nearly all voted Remain.....YBarddCwsc said:
Skiers Behaving Badly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
Amazing that there are still people travelling from the UK to go skiing. And now they want their refunds after evading Swiss quarantine illegally. Let them GF themselves.
There is stupidity; there is blonde-shocked Johnsonian stupidity; there is monumental incoherent Trumpian stupidity.
And finally there is the stupidity of the skiers who need to have their selfish time in the mountains, even as pandemic rages.
They should be quarantined on Rockall for 28 days on return.1 -
Goodness, this is a miserable thread.
Here’s a cat video.
https://twitter.com/CulturedRuffian/status/13434010274464358434 -
The fishermen increase their catch by 25% from the European Fleets in 5 years plus they are out of the CFP and UK is recognised as a coastal stateMarqueeMark said:
If you had offered the fisherfolk this deal 5 years ago, they would have grabbed it.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1343512107715878914
This was a negotiation that increased their catch without imposing any tariffs or starting a full on confrontation with the fleets. I understand the fishermen hoped for a bigger percentage but to be fair are they going to turn to the SNP who will take them back under Brussels control and the CFP
1 -
Running away fro your own manifesto being put into practice and going on about what might have been again? Shocked that a Unionist Tory would do such a thing.DavidL said:
Well its a lot better than the SNP commitment to get them back in the CFP sharpish, that's for sure.Theuniondivvie said:
Shockingly ungrateful of all those industry leaders and trawler owners to parade on the radio and tv and papers talking of betrayal and disappointment. I'm sure a good chat with Govey will bring them round.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1343512107715878914
Has @Douglas4Moray drunk a pint of cold sick yet?
https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1343250372576604162?s=200 -
Maybe your party should learn to manage expectations.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The fishermen increase their catch by 25% from the European Fleets in 5 years plus they are out of the CFP and UK is recognised as a coastal stateMarqueeMark said:
If you had offered the fisherfolk this deal 5 years ago, they would have grabbed it.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1343512107715878914
This was a negotiation that increased their catch without imposing any tariffs or starting a full on confrontation with the fleets. I understand the fishermen hoped for a bigger percentage but to be fair are they going to turn to the SNP who will take them back under Brussels control and the CFP
25% is shit when you've been promised the world for 4 years.
Regardless, simply staying at home and not voting for anyone is as good as voting for the SNP.0 -
(3) was a real issue the EU did prevent by displacement.Cyclefree said:
They were promised so much more.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1343512107715878914
That will be the difficulty for the government. As far as I can tell, the government achieved its own aims ie a deal which said how much it respected Britain's sovereignty - hence all the warm words from Ursula on this.
But it is the gap between what it promised its voters - or what they thought it promised them - and what it actually delivers which will determine how successful it is. Or is perceived to be.
And that will not be assessed now but in the weeks and months ahead.
Thee will be three levels of assessment:
(1) Does it avoid chaos or anticipated difficulties?
(2) Does it impose extra bureaucracy and costs on exporters and who bears those costs?
(3) Does it bring benefits for people which the government could not previously have done because the EU prevented it and do those benefits accrue to those who voted for Brexit?
(1) Probably - by comparison with No Deal.
(2) Yes - Michael Gove was proudly proclaiming this today. A mixture of exporters and consumers will bear the costs.
(3) Who knows. We already had here yesterday people claiming that making it easier for non-EU spouses of British citizens to live here was an advantage of Brexit when in fact the EU did not prevent this at all. I expect more such claims. What other advantages there will be and who benefits remains to be seen.
When we were giving unlimited free movement to 6% of the world's population, no questions asked . . . combined with repeated commitments to try to contain net migration . . . then the only way to contain net migration was to considerably overtighten the screws on the other 93% world's population.
One argument Priti Patel made during the referendum was that it would be easier to loosen immigration controls on the rest of the world if they are tightened with the EU, to keep balance. She has done that since taking office, keeping to her promises made during the referendum.1 -
-
0
-
When the skiers return to the UK, they should be put into caged quarantine, like animals carrying rabies.another_richard said:
I've said before that the people most likely to take foreign holidays this year are the people most likely to ignore restrictions before their holiday, during their holiday and after their holiday.dixiedean said:
It isn't stupidity. It is rank entitlement of the highest order.YBarddCwsc said:
Skiers Behaving Badly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
Amazing that there are still people travelling from the UK to go skiing. And now they want their refunds after evading Swiss quarantine illegally. Let them GF themselves.
There is stupidity; there is blonde-shocked Johnsonian stupidity; there is monumental incoherent Trumpian stupidity.
And finally there is the stupidity of the skiers who need to have their selfish time in the mountains, even as pandemic rages.
The grasping Swiss also deserve blame for keeping their ski slopes open.0 -
Don't forget to buy the Amazon and Apple shares either.MarqueeMark said:
I'll let you know when I've lent Bill Gates his first 50k start-up money....Theuniondivvie said:
How's that time machine in the shed going?MarqueeMark said:
If you had offered the fisherfolk this deal 5 years ago, they would have grabbed it.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/13435121077158789140 -
Awful goalkeeping, the ball is going to return to the kicker and he'll have a tap in!Nigelb said:Goodness, this is a miserable thread.
Here’s a cat video.
https://twitter.com/CulturedRuffian/status/13434010274464358430 -
https://www.ft.com/content/0892bbe0-5e28-42df-9981-8b65dd19e830
No Rishi, I'll keep saving, after all it's your lot who tell me to be frugal and stop buying avocados so I can buy a house. Just 99999 avocados more to go!0 -
Waste of time - just find that guy who bought a pizza for 30,000 bitcoins...DavidL said:
Don't forget to buy the Amazon and Apple shares either.MarqueeMark said:
I'll let you know when I've lent Bill Gates his first 50k start-up money....Theuniondivvie said:
How's that time machine in the shed going?MarqueeMark said:
If you had offered the fisherfolk this deal 5 years ago, they would have grabbed it.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/13435121077158789140 -
Businesses that receive a lot of cash, operate in villages without a post office or bank (quite a lot of them these days) and may have found it difficult or unwise to or indeed been prevented from travelling to the nearest town or city to deposit said cash at regular intervals. Remember that not everywhere has sufficiently good internet connection to make contactless payments as reliable as in cities.NickPalmer said:
What legitimate reasons (i.e. unrelated to tax evasion) are there to carry over £10,000 in cash? Unless one expects a bank collapse, it seems a bonkers security risk.CarlottaVance said:
It's been a legal requirement when leaving Guernsey since 2007:Gardenwalker said:
This doesn’t seem v acceptable.Scott_xP said:
It should be a basic principle that once can carry money without hindrance inside a single sovereign territory.
https://www.gov.gg/article/152734/Declaring-cash
Though since the UK has left the EU its changed the Euro 10,000 to £10,000
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/712/regulation/2/made
I expect Guernsey will change to GBP in due course.0 -
That is absolutely fantastic.Nigelb said:Goodness, this is a miserable thread.
Here’s a cat video.
https://twitter.com/CulturedRuffian/status/1343401027446435843
Perhaps only made better by the complete and utter lack of interest from the child in the background who doesn't look up from their phone. So real.1 -
The Holyrood constituency containing Peterhead, the largest Scottish fishing port, Banffshire and Buchan Coast already has an SNP MSP anyway so the Tories will not lose it even if it stays SNP.Gallowgate said:
Maybe your party should learn to manage expectations.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The fishermen increase their catch by 25% from the European Fleets in 5 years plus they are out of the CFP and UK is recognised as a coastal stateMarqueeMark said:
If you had offered the fisherfolk this deal 5 years ago, they would have grabbed it.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1343512107715878914
This was a negotiation that increased their catch without imposing any tariffs or starting a full on confrontation with the fleets. I understand the fishermen hoped for a bigger percentage but to be fair are they going to turn to the SNP who will take them back under Brussels control and the CFP
25% is shit when you've been promised the world for 4 years.
Regardless, simply staying at home and not voting for anyone is as good as voting for the SNP.
Most of the rest of Scotland will be grateful for a Deal and the main Tory targets in 2021 are Perthshire South and Kinrossshire, Edinburgh Pentlands, Angus North and Mearns, Aberdeen South and North Kincardine, Moray, Edinburgh Southern and Perthshire North.
Banffshire and Buchan Coast is not even in the top 7 Conservative Holyrood constituency target seats next year
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Scottish_Parliament_election0 -
Betting is one perfectly legitimate reason! Should be obvious on this site!kle4 said:
I'm somewhat stuck on the use of 'legitimate' here. In the absence of proof of it being for ill reasons, why should it be assumed to be illegitimate even if it is bonkers? We're not american cops looking to take cash under the guise of civil forfeiture.NickPalmer said:
What legitimate reasons (i.e. unrelated to tax evasion) are there to carry over £10,000 in cash? Unless one expects a bank collapse, it seems a bonkers security risk.CarlottaVance said:
It's been a legal requirement when leaving Guernsey since 2007:Gardenwalker said:
This doesn’t seem v acceptable.Scott_xP said:
It should be a basic principle that once can carry money without hindrance inside a single sovereign territory.
https://www.gov.gg/article/152734/Declaring-cash
Though since the UK has left the EU its changed the Euro 10,000 to £10,000
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/712/regulation/2/made
I expect Guernsey will change to GBP in due course.1 -
That's the difference between 'for' and 'to'. I have sacrificed a goat to the psephological gods.kle4 said:
No, because you don't reward him in that gratitude.Theuniondivvie said:
I'm pretty grateful for BJ and his ability to promise and not to deliver, does that count?kle4 said:
People don't do gratitude.MarqueeMark said:
If you had offered the fisherfolk this deal 5 years ago, they would have grabbed it.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/13435121077158789140 -
What is your definition of "properly under control"?CorrectHorseBattery said:People saying we need to move on seem to spend an awful time discussing Brexit.
Schools must not go back until the virus is properly under control. The Government will do this anyway, so why delay?0 -
Getting grumpy indeed as NigelB says.
For those who don't like cats, this is rather interesting (and brings back memories of I Claudius):
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/26/exceptionally-well-preserved-snack-bar-unearthed-in-pompeii
Maybe one day we can go and see it ...0 -
So we should be grateful for a shite sandwich rather than 100% unadulterated sharn on our plate?HYUFD said:
The Holyrood constituency containing Peterhead, the largest Scottish fishing port, Banffshire and Buchan Coast already has an SNP MSP anyway so the Tories will not lose it even if it stays SNP.Gallowgate said:
Maybe your party should learn to manage expectations.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The fishermen increase their catch by 25% from the European Fleets in 5 years plus they are out of the CFP and UK is recognised as a coastal stateMarqueeMark said:
If you had offered the fisherfolk this deal 5 years ago, they would have grabbed it.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1343512107715878914
This was a negotiation that increased their catch without imposing any tariffs or starting a full on confrontation with the fleets. I understand the fishermen hoped for a bigger percentage but to be fair are they going to turn to the SNP who will take them back under Brussels control and the CFP
25% is shit when you've been promised the world for 4 years.
Regardless, simply staying at home and not voting for anyone is as good as voting for the SNP.
Most of the rest of Scotland will be grateful for a Deal and the main Tory targets in 2021 are Perthshire South and Kinrossshire, Edinburgh Pentlands, Angus North and Mearns, Aberdeen South and North Kincardine, Moray, Edinburgh Southern and Perthshire North.
Banffshire and Buchan Coast is not even in the top 7 Conservative Holyrood constituency target seats next year
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Scottish_Parliament_election0 -
They seem to be mainly from London.dixiedean said:
Really? They seemed highly motivated to Leave at the first opportunity.MarqueeMark said:
I bet they nearly all voted Remain.....YBarddCwsc said:
Skiers Behaving Badly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
Amazing that there are still people travelling from the UK to go skiing. And now they want their refunds after evading Swiss quarantine illegally. Let them GF themselves.
There is stupidity; there is blonde-shocked Johnsonian stupidity; there is monumental incoherent Trumpian stupidity.
And finally there is the stupidity of the skiers who need to have their selfish time in the mountains, even as pandemic rages.
"The new quarantine rules also applied to hundreds of British tourists who had planned to spend the Christmas break in Verbier, an alpine village located in the municipality of Bagnes in Canton du Valais, nicknamed “Little London”
And certainly on pb.com, skiing is a niche LibDem activity. 😀
Mr OXWAB tells Mr RICHMOND & BARNES how skiing is essential for his wellbeing so he can compose himself in the serenity of the mountains.
MS BATH chips in that the pandemic is all caused by 6G anyhow. And so on.0 -
It will be terribly inconvenient for "Community Leaders" on their way to and from Westminster.Philip_Thompson said:
Big frigging deal.Scott_xP said:
How often are you carrying >€10,000 in your pockets or a briefcase when visiting Northern Ireland?
Customs once stopped a van at Dover. Inside was a neat stack of cash - shrink wrapped to a *fork lift pallet*. Trebles all round - they thought they'd found the cash end of as drug smuggling operation. Turned out to be the profits of a cash in hand builder, from Poland. Still, since he hadn't paid any tax....1 -
I think it was tongue in cheek. Or am I being too generous?Gardenwalker said:
Just so we’re clear, is that your take or “the ordinary public’s”?MarqueeMark said:
I bet they nearly all voted Remain.....YBarddCwsc said:
Skiers Behaving Badly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
Amazing that there are still people travelling from the UK to go skiing. And now they want their refunds after evading Swiss quarantine illegally. Let them GF themselves.
There is stupidity; there is blonde-shocked Johnsonian stupidity; there is monumental incoherent Trumpian stupidity.
And finally there is the stupidity of the skiers who need to have their selfish time in the mountains, even as pandemic rages.
The anti-skiing brigade on here amuses me. There is something about skiing that really riles them. I assume it an anti-elitist thing. I bet they nearly all voted Leave ..
Skiing, like golf, is the ultimate socially distanced sport in the fresh air. The problem, like golf, is in the apres-ski bar or club house. Avoid that, and you are safer than staying at home.0 -
These complaints about having to declare 10k betwixt NI and rUK (Yes officer it's for Cheltenham), fishermen being better off than they were in the EU whilst maintaining tariff and quota free access to the EU sound like bleatings of the defeated to me.0
-
There is no way that going on a skiing trip and just avoiding the bar or club house is safer than staying at home.Barnesian said:
I think it was tongue in cheek. Or am I being too generous?Gardenwalker said:
Just so we’re clear, is that your take or “the ordinary public’s”?MarqueeMark said:
I bet they nearly all voted Remain.....YBarddCwsc said:
Skiers Behaving Badly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
Amazing that there are still people travelling from the UK to go skiing. And now they want their refunds after evading Swiss quarantine illegally. Let them GF themselves.
There is stupidity; there is blonde-shocked Johnsonian stupidity; there is monumental incoherent Trumpian stupidity.
And finally there is the stupidity of the skiers who need to have their selfish time in the mountains, even as pandemic rages.
The anti-skiing brigade on here amuses me. There is something about skiing that really riles them. I assume it an anti-elitist thing. I bet they nearly all voted Leave ..
Skiing, like golf, is the ultimate socially distanced sport in the fresh air. The problem, like golf, is in the apres-ski bar or club house. Avoid that, and you are safer than staying at home.1 -
Oh we've lost, I'm the only Remainer who seems to have accepted itPulpstar said:These complaints about having to declare 10k betwixt NI and rUK (Yes officer it's for Cheltenham), fishermen being better off than they were in the EU whilst maintaining tariff and quota free access to the EU sound like bleatings of the defeated to me.
1 -
I wish I shared your confidenceHYUFD said:
The Holyrood constituency containing Peterhead, the largest Scottish fishing port, Banffshire and Buchan Coast already has an SNP MSP anyway so the Tories will not lose it even if it stays SNP.Gallowgate said:
Maybe your party should learn to manage expectations.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The fishermen increase their catch by 25% from the European Fleets in 5 years plus they are out of the CFP and UK is recognised as a coastal stateMarqueeMark said:
If you had offered the fisherfolk this deal 5 years ago, they would have grabbed it.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1343512107715878914
This was a negotiation that increased their catch without imposing any tariffs or starting a full on confrontation with the fleets. I understand the fishermen hoped for a bigger percentage but to be fair are they going to turn to the SNP who will take them back under Brussels control and the CFP
25% is shit when you've been promised the world for 4 years.
Regardless, simply staying at home and not voting for anyone is as good as voting for the SNP.
Most of the rest of Scotland will be grateful for a Deal and the main Tory targets in 2021 are Perthshire South and Kinrossshire, Edinburgh Pentlands, Angus North and Mearns, Aberdeen South and North Kincardine, Moray, Edinburgh Southern and Perthshire North.
Banffshire and Buchan Coast is not even in the top 7 Conservative Holyrood constituency target seats next year
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Scottish_Parliament_election0 -
If the deal was truly bad Starmer wouldn't be whipping to support, he'd be abstaining1
-
I don't have a problem with Skiiing. I have a problem with hundreds of people ignoring local coronavirus restrictions rather than bear some personal inconvenience.Barnesian said:
I think it was tongue in cheek. Or am I being too generous?Gardenwalker said:
Just so we’re clear, is that your take or “the ordinary public’s”?MarqueeMark said:
I bet they nearly all voted Remain.....YBarddCwsc said:
Skiers Behaving Badly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
Amazing that there are still people travelling from the UK to go skiing. And now they want their refunds after evading Swiss quarantine illegally. Let them GF themselves.
There is stupidity; there is blonde-shocked Johnsonian stupidity; there is monumental incoherent Trumpian stupidity.
And finally there is the stupidity of the skiers who need to have their selfish time in the mountains, even as pandemic rages.
The anti-skiing brigade on here amuses me. There is something about skiing that really riles them. I assume it an anti-elitist thing. I bet they nearly all voted Leave ..
Skiing, like golf, is the ultimate socially distanced sport in the fresh air. The problem, like golf, is in the apres-ski bar or club house. Avoid that, and you are safer than staying at home.
And crying about anti-elitism as a defence seems a very odd choice.2 -
The problem is the travel. You actually have to get to an airport, get in a plane, get in a taxi, etc.Barnesian said:
I think it was tongue in cheek. Or am I being too generous?Gardenwalker said:
Just so we’re clear, is that your take or “the ordinary public’s”?MarqueeMark said:
I bet they nearly all voted Remain.....YBarddCwsc said:
Skiers Behaving Badly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
Amazing that there are still people travelling from the UK to go skiing. And now they want their refunds after evading Swiss quarantine illegally. Let them GF themselves.
There is stupidity; there is blonde-shocked Johnsonian stupidity; there is monumental incoherent Trumpian stupidity.
And finally there is the stupidity of the skiers who need to have their selfish time in the mountains, even as pandemic rages.
The anti-skiing brigade on here amuses me. There is something about skiing that really riles them. I assume it an anti-elitist thing. I bet they nearly all voted Leave ..
Skiing, like golf, is the ultimate socially distanced sport in the fresh air. The problem, like golf, is in the apres-ski bar or club house. Avoid that, and you are safer than staying at home.
You don't magically get from Barnes to a ski slope in Verbier. There is the bit in between.2 -
I was told, quite specifically, when I turned 16 (IIRC) and got a dual nationality setup thatCarlottaVance said:
I've read the article. She's a dual citizen in a country that does not recognise dual citizenship. As far as Iran is concerned she's Iranian.Cyclefree said:
The article is not very clear but seems to imply that no British citizen is entitled to help not just those who are dual citizens. If so, what in earth is the value in a British passport?CarlottaVance said:
Can't read the whole article but the UK government has been clear for years that it cannot protect dual nationals in their other nationality country. If you want British protection in your other country you have to renounce that country nationality.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, yes, the PM and government have done well.
Off topic, the government, and the Foreign Office in particular, have just overturned centuries of precedent, all because Boris Johnson screwed up, I take back all those nice things I said in 2020 about Dominic Raab.
https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1343468421934174210
Poor Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe has been well and truly fucked over by Boris Johnson once more.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqUKaC-W4AECliU?format=jpg&name=large
Dual citizenship can be an advantage - but the big disadvantage is no help from Britain in the country of your other citizenship - and that is something the UK government has been very clear on for years.
- In the UK, my other nationality doesn't really exist. I can't call on consular services from that country etc.
- In the other country, the same
- It was an offence to enter the UK under the other countries passport.
- It was an offence to enter the other country using my UK passport
- Consular access in a 3rd country would be dependent on which passport I used to enter that country.
The official told me that this was because dual nationality is a bit of a legal lashup - that legally, you aren't a dual citizen in either country. You are a citizen of that country. The other bit of paper has no meaning.3 -
It's a million times better than No Deal and allows Labour to move on, it's sensible to vote for and put this matter to bedPulpstar said:If the deal was truly bad Starmer wouldn't be whipping to support, he'd be abstaining
1 -
Angus South is another possibility. That constituency switches back and forth at UK level. Banffshire and Buchan Coast used to benefit considerably from the Salmond factor for the SNP and it is difficult to see how that is going to play out this time given the ongoing civil war. I think it will get closer but no cigar.HYUFD said:
The Holyrood constituency containing Peterhead, the largest Scottish fishing port, Banffshire and Buchan Coast already has an SNP MSP anyway so the Tories will not lose it even if it stays SNP.Gallowgate said:
Maybe your party should learn to manage expectations.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The fishermen increase their catch by 25% from the European Fleets in 5 years plus they are out of the CFP and UK is recognised as a coastal stateMarqueeMark said:
If you had offered the fisherfolk this deal 5 years ago, they would have grabbed it.DavidL said:
15% more fish this year, 25% more fish within 5 years. Given that their fixed costs are pretty much going to remain the same profits are going to soar. I get why they say that their interests were traded off for other interests. That much is true. They would have been substantially better off with no deal at all. But they have not done badly, not at all.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t understand why the “fisherfolk” are upset. Although Britain clearly compromised a lot from a maximalist approach, the deal agreed is surely much better than remaining inside the CFA.Scott_xP said:BoZo, champion of the people...
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1343512107715878914
This was a negotiation that increased their catch without imposing any tariffs or starting a full on confrontation with the fleets. I understand the fishermen hoped for a bigger percentage but to be fair are they going to turn to the SNP who will take them back under Brussels control and the CFP
25% is shit when you've been promised the world for 4 years.
Regardless, simply staying at home and not voting for anyone is as good as voting for the SNP.
Most of the rest of Scotland will be grateful for a Deal and the main Tory targets in 2021 are Perthshire South and Kinrossshire, Edinburgh Pentlands, Angus North and Mearns, Aberdeen South and North Kincardine, Moray, Edinburgh Southern and Perthshire North.
Banffshire and Buchan Coast is not even in the top 7 Conservative Holyrood constituency target seats next year
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Scottish_Parliament_election0 -
Local supermarket on verge of having to shut its doors for a while - 50 plus staff out either isolating or positive for covid.
I hear over 10 positives in that number0 -
It's not just the law @Philip_Thompson does not understand. It's what Parliamentary democracy means. Democracy is not simply having an election every 5 years - with no scrutiny or accountability in the intervening period - though it is a view increasingly pushed by populists. If it were the case, governing by decree with no Parliamentary scrutiny whatsoever, would - so long as there was a vote at the end of it - be a democracy according to such people.CorrectHorseBattery said:
LOL are you telling an expert in the law they don't know what they're talking about, ROFLPhilip_Thompson said:
I do.Cyclefree said:
Another example of you not understanding how Parliamentary democracy works.Philip_Thompson said:
If the voters are unhappy with that they get a say no later than 2024.Cyclefree said:
"With the voters"Gardenwalker said:
Lol.MarqueeMark said:
Boris is a guy who has delivered on listening to a voice of a swathe of people in this country, a swathe who had grown accustomed to that voice being ignored. Those people didn't have many expectations of Brexit making their life a whole lot better. But continually seeing the UK belittled by little c**ts from Luxembourg made their blood boil. We are better than that, they believe.Gardenwalker said:
Brexit was fathered by nostalgic Tories who saw Britain as a global power unfairly shackled to a “sclerotic” Franco-German hegemon. This was - to their way of thinking - a break on natural British competitiveness *and* unseemly for a country of Britain’s exceptionalism.kinabalu said:
Brexit was and is a passive aggressive identity project founded on exceptionalism. This is how I have come to see and understand it. Lots of granular drivers in there, including those you refer to, but for me the overriding umbrella sentiment powering it through to its fruition on Christmas Eve is the feeling that we are not really European. We are England and we're English, both of which are something a little bit special to be. EU membership might be all very well for your run-of-the-mill continentals but not for this sceptered isle. This is a seductive notion. It's bullshit imo but I do recognize its appeal.Foxy said:
Nah, folk will still blame the EU.CarlottaVance said:Yep:
https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1343484062896443393?s=20
With a bit of luck, the removal of the "EU bogeyman" will help us focus on what WE need to do......educate our workforce, make stuff the world wants....
It has never been obvious to me how losing European markets helps gain any market elsewhere.
The main drive for Brexit has always been envy, and for those struggling in left behind areas to take their revenge on their fellow countrymen who have done well in recent years. No-one hates their fellow countryman more than a "patriotic" flag waving Brexiteer.
This mindset - grossly out of date by 2016, if it was ever true - always had a latent hold on suburban and provincial Tory thinking, hence even places like Surrey voting 48% Leave.
But that alone was insufficient to win Brexit.
The other part of the story is 25 years of a globalised economic order (willingly embraced by both Tories and Labour) which has seen clear benefits to London, and the abandonment of much of the rest of the country.
Large scale emigration - effectively part of the same story - from about 2000 - created the “casus bellum” for the man on the Boston omnibus.
In this analysis, interestingly, Boris is not a true Brexiter, just an opportunist who knows his audience.
And they will be thankful to Boris for listening to them - and delivering. He is the first in a very long time to have done so. He has respected where the power lies in this country: with the voters.
Boris couldn’t give a toss about the “swathe of people”, and doesn’t have the ability to deliver for them even if he did. They are “useful idiots” for the ongoing Boris project.
And the “little c*** from Luxembourg” reference is risible. You have clearly read too much Daily Mail.
That's why at every stage Boris has done what he can to avoid the people's representatives - MPs in Parliament - from having any say or scrutiny.
Voters vote for MPs.
MPs vote for the Government.
The Government requires MPs votes to change the law.
The MPs can vote down the Government any time it chooses if its unhappy with how the Government is exercising its powers.
At an election if the voters are unhappy with the Government - or unhappy with the MPs who make up and scrutinise the Government - they can vote for new ones.
Democracy in action.
But it isn't and it is not how Parliamentary democracy here has been understood. I'm afraid that those who say - in response to any criticism of the government or breach by it of the law - oh well it doesn't matter because the voters get to vote in 2024 - are not really in their bones democrats and are in fact allowing and approving the degradation of our democracy.4 -
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Oh God not Carole again2
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I am not anti skiing or snow sports, indeed my eldest son was at one time an international snowboard celebrity skiing and professionally snowboarding throughout the Alps, USA and Canada but he would be as angry as I am at those irresponsible skiersBarnesian said:
I think it was tongue in cheek. Or am I being too generous?Gardenwalker said:
Just so we’re clear, is that your take or “the ordinary public’s”?MarqueeMark said:
I bet they nearly all voted Remain.....YBarddCwsc said:
Skiers Behaving Badly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
Amazing that there are still people travelling from the UK to go skiing. And now they want their refunds after evading Swiss quarantine illegally. Let them GF themselves.
There is stupidity; there is blonde-shocked Johnsonian stupidity; there is monumental incoherent Trumpian stupidity.
And finally there is the stupidity of the skiers who need to have their selfish time in the mountains, even as pandemic rages.
The anti-skiing brigade on here amuses me. There is something about skiing that really riles them. I assume it an anti-elitist thing. I bet they nearly all voted Leave ..
Skiing, like golf, is the ultimate socially distanced sport in the fresh air. The problem, like golf, is in the apres-ski bar or club house. Avoid that, and you are safer than staying at home.2 -
That's true if you go anywhere. It's not just skiing. I'd rather be in a plane with hepa filtered air than on the London tube. I haven't been on the tube since March and don't intend to until I've had my jabs.YBarddCwsc said:
The problem is the travel. You actually have to get to an airport, get in a plane, get in a taxi, etc.Barnesian said:
I think it was tongue in cheek. Or am I being too generous?Gardenwalker said:
Just so we’re clear, is that your take or “the ordinary public’s”?MarqueeMark said:
I bet they nearly all voted Remain.....YBarddCwsc said:
Skiers Behaving Badly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
Amazing that there are still people travelling from the UK to go skiing. And now they want their refunds after evading Swiss quarantine illegally. Let them GF themselves.
There is stupidity; there is blonde-shocked Johnsonian stupidity; there is monumental incoherent Trumpian stupidity.
And finally there is the stupidity of the skiers who need to have their selfish time in the mountains, even as pandemic rages.
The anti-skiing brigade on here amuses me. There is something about skiing that really riles them. I assume it an anti-elitist thing. I bet they nearly all voted Leave ..
Skiing, like golf, is the ultimate socially distanced sport in the fresh air. The problem, like golf, is in the apres-ski bar or club house. Avoid that, and you are safer than staying at home.
You don't magically get from Barnes to a ski slope in Verbier. There is the bit in between.
But I have two ski trips planned and paid for in March and April after my jabs.0 -
Though credit *is* due for getting all this in place, and oiling the regulatory wheels, I suspect it will be short lived as people fail to understand why, as 2021 trots along, they have not had the vaccine, and why restrictions are still in place.0
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It even says so in your/our passport, that dual citizens cannot receive consular protection in their other country. Why am I not surprised that the Times journalist doesn't know this.Malmesbury said:
I was told, quite specifically, when I turned 16 (IIRC) and got a dual nationality setup thatCarlottaVance said:
I've read the article. She's a dual citizen in a country that does not recognise dual citizenship. As far as Iran is concerned she's Iranian.Cyclefree said:
The article is not very clear but seems to imply that no British citizen is entitled to help not just those who are dual citizens. If so, what in earth is the value in a British passport?CarlottaVance said:
Can't read the whole article but the UK government has been clear for years that it cannot protect dual nationals in their other nationality country. If you want British protection in your other country you have to renounce that country nationality.TheScreamingEagles said:On topic, yes, the PM and government have done well.
Off topic, the government, and the Foreign Office in particular, have just overturned centuries of precedent, all because Boris Johnson screwed up, I take back all those nice things I said in 2020 about Dominic Raab.
https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1343468421934174210
Poor Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe has been well and truly fucked over by Boris Johnson once more.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqUKaC-W4AECliU?format=jpg&name=large
Dual citizenship can be an advantage - but the big disadvantage is no help from Britain in the country of your other citizenship - and that is something the UK government has been very clear on for years.
- In the UK, my other nationality doesn't really exist. I can't call on consular services from that country etc.
- In the other country, the same
- It was an offence to enter the UK under the other countries passport.
- It was an offence to enter the other country using my UK passport
- Consular access in a 3rd country would be dependent on which passport I used to enter that country.
The official told me that this was because dual nationality is a bit of a legal lashup - that legally, you aren't a dual citizen in either country. You are a citizen of that country. The other bit of paper has no meaning.
The tweet is simply wrong. More twitter bollocks.0 -
No shared cable cars or transport?Barnesian said:
I think it was tongue in cheek. Or am I being too generous?Gardenwalker said:
Just so we’re clear, is that your take or “the ordinary public’s”?MarqueeMark said:
I bet they nearly all voted Remain.....YBarddCwsc said:
Skiers Behaving Badly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
Amazing that there are still people travelling from the UK to go skiing. And now they want their refunds after evading Swiss quarantine illegally. Let them GF themselves.
There is stupidity; there is blonde-shocked Johnsonian stupidity; there is monumental incoherent Trumpian stupidity.
And finally there is the stupidity of the skiers who need to have their selfish time in the mountains, even as pandemic rages.
The anti-skiing brigade on here amuses me. There is something about skiing that really riles them. I assume it an anti-elitist thing. I bet they nearly all voted Leave ..
Skiing, like golf, is the ultimate socially distanced sport in the fresh air. The problem, like golf, is in the apres-ski bar or club house. Avoid that, and you are safer than staying at home.
I must have dreamed the super spreader events at ski resorts and then from people coming home then........0 -
How that isn't already closed is the story there.Floater said:Local supermarket on verge of having to shut its doors for a while - 50 plus staff out either isolating or positive for covid.
I hear over 10 positives in that number0 -
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/28/labour-should-learn-love-brexit-not-just-tolerate/
The Tories were not offering social democracy, does Tim even know what social democracy is?0 -
Says the notorious Remainer and Covid-tourist.....Barnesian said:
I think it was tongue in cheek. Or am I being too generous?Gardenwalker said:
Just so we’re clear, is that your take or “the ordinary public’s”?MarqueeMark said:
I bet they nearly all voted Remain.....YBarddCwsc said:
Skiers Behaving Badly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55465079
Amazing that there are still people travelling from the UK to go skiing. And now they want their refunds after evading Swiss quarantine illegally. Let them GF themselves.
There is stupidity; there is blonde-shocked Johnsonian stupidity; there is monumental incoherent Trumpian stupidity.
And finally there is the stupidity of the skiers who need to have their selfish time in the mountains, even as pandemic rages.
The anti-skiing brigade on here amuses me. There is something about skiing that really riles them. I assume it an anti-elitist thing. I bet they nearly all voted Leave ..
Skiing, like golf, is the ultimate socially distanced sport in the fresh air. The problem, like golf, is in the apres-ski bar or club house. Avoid that, and you are safer than staying at home.2 -
Tesco's in we will enforce our current prices even (especially if) we drive our suppliers to bankruptcy shock...Philip_Thompson said:
@RochdalePioneers for starters.Gallowgate said:
Care to point out who said there would be significant price rises on food in the event of a free-trade deal?another_richard said:Any changes to food prices after Brexit are likely to be "very modest indeed" under the deal struck between the UK and the EU, the chairman of Tesco has said.
John Allan told the BBC that it would "hardly be felt in terms of the prices that consumers are paying".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55460948
Yet again those with BDS have overplayed their hand with their predictions of food shortages and food price rises.
He says that even a deal will be a disaster if we are outside of the customs area.0
This discussion has been closed.