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The annual StJohn PB Christmas Crossword (est 2007) – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,688
edited December 2020 in General
imageThe annual StJohn PB Christmas Crossword (est 2007) – politicalbetting.com

Across

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,007
    13 - bid?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    1D - ride?

    Merry Christmas to all PBers 🎄
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    10a Embargo
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    Merry Christmas everyone. Best wishes to you all and your families.
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    Happy Christmas everybody...

    Just flicking through the reporting of Brexit deal, seems nobody can write an article without using phrase "thin deal"...I have no idea what that actually means. I suspect it is like hard Brexit, a vacuous term with an ever changing meaning.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    edited December 2020
    Feliz Navidad amigos!
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    Happy Christmas one and all - and here’s to a better 2021!

    On COVID Hong Kong has extended quarantine to 21 days:

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-hongkong-idUKKBN28Z04R
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,018
    Happy Christmas
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    Merry Christmas. The crossword is impossible this year.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,296

    Merry Christmas. The crossword is impossible this year.

    No it isn’t, you just need to look at the words in isolation. :smile:

    Merry Christmas to all, and best wishes to Mrs @Gardenwalker and Gardenwalker Jr for a mild illness and a speedy recovery.
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,779
    Morning PBers everywhere. Merry Brexit and a Happy New Year.

    13 across not bid and 1 down not ride.

    10 across. Embargo. Yes. Traffic light signals are Amber and Go. Exchange A and E leads to Embar + go = Embargo. Ban = Embargo.
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    SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 599
    Merry Christmas
    10a erased Reds + AE
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,360
    Merry brexit everyone.. may the arguing recommence!
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,649
    A merry Brexmas to all, and felicitations to @stjohn for confounding me again with his crossword.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,649
    A point I was making yesterday, presented in table form.

    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1341992652179447808
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008
    Happy Christmas everyone!
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Merry Christmas. The crossword is impossible this year.

    Harder than Brexit! :smiley:
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    You'd need to look at the details of the Turing scheme but if it is a more-or-less like-for-like replacement then Boris has lured his opponents down a rabbit hole despite the apparent contradiction of his earlier assurances.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,649
    Good lord - a piece of excellent advice from the Welsh government.
    Effective also in the rUK.

    https://twitter.com/WelshGovernment/status/1338078761108070401
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    You'd need to look at the details of the Turing scheme but if it is a more-or-less like-for-like replacement then Boris has lured his opponents down a rabbit hole despite the apparent contradiction of his earlier assurances.
    'You'd need to look at the details' will be the epitaph of the BJ premiership.
    Along with 'you two faced son of a bitch' of course.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,649
    COVID-19: Major UK testing lab suffers coronavirus outbreak after claims of safety breaches
    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-major-uk-testing-lab-suffers-coronavirus-outbreak-after-claims-of-safety-breaches-12172290
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008

    You'd need to look at the details of the Turing scheme but if it is a more-or-less like-for-like replacement then Boris has lured his opponents down a rabbit hole despite the apparent contradiction of his earlier assurances.
    'You'd need to look at the details' will be the epitaph of the BJ premiership.
    Along with 'you two faced son of a bitch' of course.
    Listening to him last night it isn't equivalent. Our students go, but no-one comes.
    As someone whose family benefited, and who acted as a host, I think UK's withdrawal is dreadful.
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    You'd need to look at the details of the Turing scheme but if it is a more-or-less like-for-like replacement then Boris has lured his opponents down a rabbit hole despite the apparent contradiction of his earlier assurances.
    'You'd need to look at the details' will be the epitaph of the BJ premiership.
    Along with 'you two faced son of a bitch' of course.
    Ah but which details? Boris breaking conventions to shore up Leave support told us there would be a deal but also that somewhere he has sold out the Brexiteer headbangers. But where? You'd need to look at the details.

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    Good morning, everyone.

    Hope you all get delightful presents.

    Cheers for the crossword, Saint John. I appreciate the diversity of literary creations, after the Gospel.
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    You'd need to look at the details of the Turing scheme but if it is a more-or-less like-for-like replacement then Boris has lured his opponents down a rabbit hole despite the apparent contradiction of his earlier assurances.
    'You'd need to look at the details' will be the epitaph of the BJ premiership.
    Along with 'you two faced son of a bitch' of course.
    Listening to him last night it isn't equivalent. Our students go, but no-one comes.
    As someone whose family benefited, and who acted as a host, I think UK's withdrawal is dreadful.
    That is a stupid mistake. We benefit from the brightest foreigners coming here in a sort-of reverse brain drain.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    nichomar said:

    I wish Johnson wouldn’t make the assumption that he has done all this for me, he can get on with it but he’s not doing it on my behalf. He can stick his Christmas present up his .....

    'tis the season to be jolly and err bitter'?
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    LennonLennon Posts: 1,735
    Merry Christmas all...
    28a - Rona
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    You'd need to look at the details of the Turing scheme but if it is a more-or-less like-for-like replacement then Boris has lured his opponents down a rabbit hole despite the apparent contradiction of his earlier assurances.
    'You'd need to look at the details' will be the epitaph of the BJ premiership.
    Along with 'you two faced son of a bitch' of course.
    Listening to him last night it isn't equivalent. Our students go, but no-one comes.
    As someone whose family benefited, and who acted as a host, I think UK's withdrawal is dreadful.
    That is a stupid mistake. We benefit from the brightest foreigners coming here in a sort-of reverse brain drain.
    We do from all over the world. Let's see how many Europeans stop coming.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,649
    felix said:

    nichomar said:

    I wish Johnson wouldn’t make the assumption that he has done all this for me, he can get on with it but he’s not doing it on my behalf. He can stick his Christmas present up his .....

    'tis the season to be jolly and err bitter'?
    I think Brexit’s malign effects will last rather longer than that.
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    A very Happy Christmas to everyone

    May we all look forward to a much better 2021 and the vaccination of all our Country
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Nigelb said:

    felix said:

    nichomar said:

    I wish Johnson wouldn’t make the assumption that he has done all this for me, he can get on with it but he’s not doing it on my behalf. He can stick his Christmas present up his .....

    'tis the season to be jolly and err bitter'?
    I think Brexit’s malign effects will last rather longer than that.
    Longer than the bitterness? Not so sure -I think Ted Heath's record is in danger.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008

    You'd need to look at the details of the Turing scheme but if it is a more-or-less like-for-like replacement then Boris has lured his opponents down a rabbit hole despite the apparent contradiction of his earlier assurances.
    'You'd need to look at the details' will be the epitaph of the BJ premiership.
    Along with 'you two faced son of a bitch' of course.
    Listening to him last night it isn't equivalent. Our students go, but no-one comes.
    As someone whose family benefited, and who acted as a host, I think UK's withdrawal is dreadful.
    That is a stupid mistake. We benefit from the brightest foreigners coming here in a sort-of reverse brain drain.
    It isn't just the brightest we want; it's the 'ordinary' getting experience of similar but different cultures and ways of life, and enjoying the experience. Making us realise that whatever language we speak, whatever our skin colour, we're all humans.
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,779
    28 across. Rona. Yes. The letters of Rona are found "over" or reversed in
    Wuh(an or)iginally. The whole clue acts as the definition. Called an "&lit" clue in cryptic crossword land.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    felix said:

    nichomar said:

    I wish Johnson wouldn’t make the assumption that he has done all this for me, he can get on with it but he’s not doing it on my behalf. He can stick his Christmas present up his .....

    'tis the season to be jolly and err bitter'?
    He’s doing all this for someone but it’s definitely not for me so I’d like him to stop claiming it is, just get on with it and prove to the likes of me that it’s all been worth it and my kids and grand kids have a golden future because we left the EU. If nothing changes we have just wasted 41/2 years. The problem is I see no benefit in so-called sovereignty or even taking back control as the voter has no control anyway, but we can wait and see and hope I’m wrong. Not bitter, nothing to be bitter about but I’m not going to be dancing in the street to celebrate something that very few people even know what’s in it.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,296
    edited December 2020

    Good morning, everyone.

    Hope you all get delightful presents.

    Cheers for the crossword, Saint John. I appreciate the diversity of literary creations, after the Gospel.

    Are you suggesting you do crosswords during the sermon, Mr Dancer?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008
    Just been announced that there's been snow in Yorkshire and in Suffolk. So according to the Met Office, counts as a White Christmas.

    10 miles S of Suffolk, it's just above freezing, but the sky's clear.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    You'd need to look at the details of the Turing scheme but if it is a more-or-less like-for-like replacement then Boris has lured his opponents down a rabbit hole despite the apparent contradiction of his earlier assurances.
    'You'd need to look at the details' will be the epitaph of the BJ premiership.
    Along with 'you two faced son of a bitch' of course.
    Listening to him last night it isn't equivalent. Our students go, but no-one comes.
    As someone whose family benefited, and who acted as a host, I think UK's withdrawal is dreadful.
    That is a stupid mistake. We benefit from the brightest foreigners coming here in a sort-of reverse brain drain.
    It isn't just the brightest we want; it's the 'ordinary' getting experience of similar but different cultures and ways of life, and enjoying the experience. Making us realise that whatever language we speak, whatever our skin colour, we're all humans.
    Then having a scheme open to the world may represent an improvement. It was the EU who chose to triple the price of Erasmus.
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    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited December 2020
    A Very Merry Christmas to All.

    The beginning of a permanent change ; or the beginning of a road back - all is yet to be revealed ; but the next year or two will play a big part in deciding that.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008
    felix said:

    You'd need to look at the details of the Turing scheme but if it is a more-or-less like-for-like replacement then Boris has lured his opponents down a rabbit hole despite the apparent contradiction of his earlier assurances.
    'You'd need to look at the details' will be the epitaph of the BJ premiership.
    Along with 'you two faced son of a bitch' of course.
    Listening to him last night it isn't equivalent. Our students go, but no-one comes.
    As someone whose family benefited, and who acted as a host, I think UK's withdrawal is dreadful.
    That is a stupid mistake. We benefit from the brightest foreigners coming here in a sort-of reverse brain drain.
    It isn't just the brightest we want; it's the 'ordinary' getting experience of similar but different cultures and ways of life, and enjoying the experience. Making us realise that whatever language we speak, whatever our skin colour, we're all humans.
    Then having a scheme open to the world may represent an improvement. It was the EU who chose to triple the price of Erasmus.
    I refer to my earlier comment. According to Johnson last night the Turing scheme is one way only.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    felix said:

    You'd need to look at the details of the Turing scheme but if it is a more-or-less like-for-like replacement then Boris has lured his opponents down a rabbit hole despite the apparent contradiction of his earlier assurances.
    'You'd need to look at the details' will be the epitaph of the BJ premiership.
    Along with 'you two faced son of a bitch' of course.
    Listening to him last night it isn't equivalent. Our students go, but no-one comes.
    As someone whose family benefited, and who acted as a host, I think UK's withdrawal is dreadful.
    That is a stupid mistake. We benefit from the brightest foreigners coming here in a sort-of reverse brain drain.
    It isn't just the brightest we want; it's the 'ordinary' getting experience of similar but different cultures and ways of life, and enjoying the experience. Making us realise that whatever language we speak, whatever our skin colour, we're all humans.
    Then having a scheme open to the world may represent an improvement. It was the EU who chose to triple the price of Erasmus.
    I refer to my earlier comment. According to Johnson last night the Turing scheme is one way only.
    Are foreign students no longer allowed to study in the UK? The universities won't like that.
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    Mr. Doethur, I evade this ethical dilemma by neither attending sermons nor solving crosswords.

    I am, however, slightly concerned that in my new game of Stellaris everyone in the galaxy except those with whom I'm allied have declared war with me. I'm currently in three separate wars with six other galactic powers. Spinning those plates is going to be tricky...
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    26a Namaste
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    felix said:

    Nigelb said:

    felix said:

    nichomar said:

    I wish Johnson wouldn’t make the assumption that he has done all this for me, he can get on with it but he’s not doing it on my behalf. He can stick his Christmas present up his .....

    'tis the season to be jolly and err bitter'?
    I think Brexit’s malign effects will last rather longer than that.
    Longer than the bitterness? Not so sure -I think Ted Heath's record is in danger.
    Heath's record is over in another way. By taking us into the Common Market, Edward Heath was arguably the most significant Prime Minister of the past 50 years; even more important than Mrs Thatcher who founded the European single market.

    No more.
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    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Merry Christmas
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,779
    26 across. Namaste. Yes.

    Originally = anagram indicator. The letters are arranged originally or in a new way. Anagram “meant as” = namaste. Namaste is a respectful greeting that is given at a social distance.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,293
    nichomar said:

    I wish Johnson wouldn’t make the assumption that he has done all this for me, he can get on with it but he’s not doing it on my behalf. He can stick his Christmas present up his .....

    Which raises the interesting political question, since the (generally) younger, more educated, more middle class folk are going to remain pissed off by Brexit for longer than the older, less educated, more working class folk stay grateful. Gratitude never gets you far in politics, and whilst holding onto older voters doesn’t appear a particular problem for Conservatives, working age leave voters will surely soon have new grievances and desires.
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Well this is the most bad tempered start to a Christmas day thread on pb.com that i can remember.

    Still Merry Christmas! Any chance of leaving the politicking to tomorrow, it's not going away. Concentrate on the crossword, not the cross words? No? OK then.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,047
    Nice to see St John is still doing this.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,047
    10 across = embargo
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,229
    felix said:

    nichomar said:

    I wish Johnson wouldn’t make the assumption that he has done all this for me, he can get on with it but he’s not doing it on my behalf. He can stick his Christmas present up his .....

    'tis the season to be jolly and err bitter'?
    I am bitter, but I am sucking it up like a good loser.

    It is even harder to stomach when our magnificent leader continues with his wartime allusions. Did I ever think Turing would annoy me? No.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,229
    alex_ said:

    Well this is the most bad tempered start to a Christmas day thread on pb.com that i can remember.

    Still Merry Christmas! Any chance of leaving the politicking to tomorrow, it's not going away. Concentrate on the crossword, not the cross words? No? OK then.

    Some of us are disappointed in our 'big' present. For others Santa brought them exactly what they wanted.
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    SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 599
    14 down Campaigner anagram magic plus grandpa alternately
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,779
    14 down. Campaigner. Yes.

    Grandpa regularly (alternate letters of) = rnp. Upset = anagram indicator. Direction = E(ast). Anagram of “A magic rnp” over or around the letter E = Campaign(E)r. Activist = Campaigner.
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    SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 599
    18 across Potemkin
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    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    23A Ism?
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    alex_ said:

    Well this is the most bad tempered start to a Christmas day thread on pb.com that i can remember.

    Still Merry Christmas! Any chance of leaving the politicking to tomorrow, it's not going away. Concentrate on the crossword, not the cross words? No? OK then.

    Some of us are disappointed in our 'big' present. For others Santa brought them exactly what they wanted.
    I just feel sorry for stjohn trying to track people attempting crossword answers! - it all used to be so simple in the old days... a couple of efforts every half hour, usually wrong. And no other posts at all. Perhaps we need two threads - one for the Crossword and one a Christmas Dayhawks cafe thread.

    I suppose there are more people here than usual because of the ban on Christmas.
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,779
    18 across. Potemkin. Yes.

    Philby initially (first letter) = P. Sent, (as in transported) = anagram indicator. "Note Kim P" anagrammed = Potemkin. Important Russian = Potemkin.
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,779
    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Well this is the most bad tempered start to a Christmas day thread on pb.com that i can remember.

    Still Merry Christmas! Any chance of leaving the politicking to tomorrow, it's not going away. Concentrate on the crossword, not the cross words? No? OK then.

    Some of us are disappointed in our 'big' present. For others Santa brought them exactly what they wanted.
    I just feel sorry for stjohn trying to track people attempting crossword answers! - it all used to be so simple in the old days... a couple of efforts every half hour, usually wrong. And no other posts at all. Perhaps we need two threads - one for the Crossword and one a Christmas Dayhawks cafe thread.

    I suppose there are more people here than usual because of the ban on Christmas.
    Alex. Please don't be concerned. It's good to have some company for a change. Usually this is quite a socially distanced thread!
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,779
    23 across. Ism. Yes.

    Society is abbreviated to S. This person’s = this person is = I am = I’m. (This person here refers to the crossword setter). S restricted by I’m = I(s)m. Belief = “Ism”.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,649
    This is a little troubling (though of uncertain significance).
    The Japanese recently discovered a possible mechanism for ADE (antibody dependant enhancement) in Covid.

    An infectivity-enhancing site on the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein is targeted by COVID-19 patient antibodies
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.18.423358v1.full.pdf
    SARS-CoV-2 infection causes severe symptoms in a subset of patients, suggesting the presence of certain unknown risk factors. Although antibodies against the receptor- binding domain (RBD) of the SARS-CoV-2 spike have been shown prevent SARS-CoV-2 infection, the effects of antibodies against other spike protein domains are largely unknown. Here, we screened a series of anti-spike monoclonal antibodies from COVID- 19 patients, and found that some of antibodies against the N-terminal domain (NTD) dramatically enhanced the binding capacity of the spike protein to ACE2, and thus increased SARS-CoV2 infectivity. Surprisingly, mutational analysis revealed that all the infectivity-enhancing antibodies recognized a specific site on the surface of the NTD. The antibodies against this infectivity-enhancing site were detected in all samples of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in the study. However, the ratio of infectivity-enhancing antibodies to neutralizing antibodies differed among patients. Furthermore, the antibodies against the infectivity-enhancing site were detected in 3 out of 48 uninfected donors, albeit at low levels. These findings suggest that the production of antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 infectivity-enhancing site could be considered as a possible exacerbating factors for COVID-19 and that a spike protein lacking such antibody epitopes may be required for safe vaccine development, especially for individuals with pre-existing enhancing antibodies.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,229
    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Well this is the most bad tempered start to a Christmas day thread on pb.com that i can remember.

    Still Merry Christmas! Any chance of leaving the politicking to tomorrow, it's not going away. Concentrate on the crossword, not the cross words? No? OK then.

    Some of us are disappointed in our 'big' present. For others Santa brought them exactly what they wanted.
    I just feel sorry for stjohn trying to track people attempting crossword answers! - it all used to be so simple in the old days... a couple of efforts every half hour, usually wrong. And no other posts at all. Perhaps we need two threads - one for the Crossword and one a Christmas Dayhawks cafe thread.

    I suppose there are more people here than usual because of the ban on Christmas.
    Seasonal apologies, I am gone!
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,779

    For its third and possibly final airing on PB.com, I'd like to continue my previous practice of sharing with you once again on this Christmas Day morning the following humorous tale which I usually refer to loosely as my "Son Of Kipper Tie" joke and which hopefully you'll agree is genuinely of the LOL variety:

    A man joins a monastery and takes a vow of silence: he's allowed to say two words every seven years.
    After the first seven years, the elders bring him in and ask for his two words. "Cold floors," he says. They nod and send him away.
    Seven more years pass. They bring him back in and ask for his two words. He clears his throat and says, "Bad food." They nod and send him away.
    Seven more years pass. They bring him back in and ask for his two words. He clears his throat and says, "I quit."
    They nod and say: "Understood, you've been doing nothing but complain ever since you got here!"


    Enjoy and have a Happy Christmas everyone!

    Merry xmas Peter. Up the Villa!

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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,649

    For its third and possibly final airing on PB.com, I'd like to continue my previous practice of sharing with you once again on this Christmas Day morning the following humorous tale which I usually refer to loosely as my "Son Of Kipper Tie" joke and which hopefully you'll agree is genuinely of the LOL variety:

    A man joins a monastery and takes a vow of silence: he's allowed to say two words every seven years.
    After the first seven years, the elders bring him in and ask for his two words. "Cold floors," he says. They nod and send him away.
    Seven more years pass. They bring him back in and ask for his two words. He clears his throat and says, "Bad food." They nod and send him away.
    Seven more years pass. They bring him back in and ask for his two words. He clears his throat and says, "I quit."
    They nod and say: "Understood, you've been doing nothing but complain ever since you got here!"


    Enjoy and have a Happy Christmas everyone!

    I recall that from last year, and yes, genuine LOL.
    It works very well told out loud.

    Happy Xmas back at you !
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    19 down = Time Man (of the year) which reversed reads Name MIT (call university).

    Wasted ages on Pipe Man!
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,779
    19 down. Time Man. Yes.

    Call = name. University = MIT. Up regarding means read the letters upwards. Name MIT read upwards = Time Man. Former annual award = Time Man of the Year. Now it’s Time Person.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,206
    edited December 2020
    Nigelb said:

    This is a little troubling (though of uncertain significance).
    The Japanese recently discovered a possible mechanism for ADE (antibody dependant enhancement) in Covid.

    An infectivity-enhancing site on the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein is targeted by COVID-19 patient antibodies
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.18.423358v1.full.pdf
    SARS-CoV-2 infection causes severe symptoms in a subset of patients, suggesting the presence of certain unknown risk factors. Although antibodies against the receptor- binding domain (RBD) of the SARS-CoV-2 spike have been shown prevent SARS-CoV-2 infection, the effects of antibodies against other spike protein domains are largely unknown. Here, we screened a series of anti-spike monoclonal antibodies from COVID- 19 patients, and found that some of antibodies against the N-terminal domain (NTD) dramatically enhanced the binding capacity of the spike protein to ACE2, and thus increased SARS-CoV2 infectivity. Surprisingly, mutational analysis revealed that all the infectivity-enhancing antibodies recognized a specific site on the surface of the NTD. The antibodies against this infectivity-enhancing site were detected in all samples of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in the study. However, the ratio of infectivity-enhancing antibodies to neutralizing antibodies differed among patients. Furthermore, the antibodies against the infectivity-enhancing site were detected in 3 out of 48 uninfected donors, albeit at low levels. These findings suggest that the production of antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 infectivity-enhancing site could be considered as a possible exacerbating factors for COVID-19 and that a spike protein lacking such antibody epitopes may be required for safe vaccine development, especially for individuals with pre-existing enhancing antibodies.

    So one wonders if the patients who are getting very sick have antibodies from a previous infection (possibly not even sars/Covid related? It also seems possible that a screening programme for these people could be possible. Not necessarily a bad discovery.
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,779
    Nigelb said:

    This is a little troubling (though of uncertain significance).
    The Japanese recently discovered a possible mechanism for ADE (antibody dependant enhancement) in Covid.

    An infectivity-enhancing site on the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein is targeted by COVID-19 patient antibodies
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.18.423358v1.full.pdf
    SARS-CoV-2 infection causes severe symptoms in a subset of patients, suggesting the presence of certain unknown risk factors. Although antibodies against the receptor- binding domain (RBD) of the SARS-CoV-2 spike have been shown prevent SARS-CoV-2 infection, the effects of antibodies against other spike protein domains are largely unknown. Here, we screened a series of anti-spike monoclonal antibodies from COVID- 19 patients, and found that some of antibodies against the N-terminal domain (NTD) dramatically enhanced the binding capacity of the spike protein to ACE2, and thus increased SARS-CoV2 infectivity. Surprisingly, mutational analysis revealed that all the infectivity-enhancing antibodies recognized a specific site on the surface of the NTD. The antibodies against this infectivity-enhancing site were detected in all samples of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in the study. However, the ratio of infectivity-enhancing antibodies to neutralizing antibodies differed among patients. Furthermore, the antibodies against the infectivity-enhancing site were detected in 3 out of 48 uninfected donors, albeit at low levels. These findings suggest that the production of antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 infectivity-enhancing site could be considered as a possible exacerbating factors for COVID-19 and that a spike protein lacking such antibody epitopes may be required for safe vaccine development, especially for individuals with pre-existing enhancing antibodies.

    Nigelb. What do you think are the possible implications for the current vaccines?

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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    15 August
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    edited December 2020
    I see Germany recorded 554 deaths yesterday, which is down from the 724 recorded last Thursday. Perhaps they've turned the corner (or rather, turned the corner three weeks ago), but I suspect it's the start of Christmas reporting. We (i.e. everyone in the Western World) could be about to get some lower numbers, followed by some hideously high numbers.
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    Merry Christmas one and all!
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    5 down = treaties
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    SandraMc said:

    14 down Campaigner anagram magic plus grandpa alternately

    That's more evil at Christmas than Hans Gruber!

    Merry Christmas one and all. May the coming year bring you a vaccine.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    3 Carrie Symonds
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,649

    Nigelb said:

    This is a little troubling (though of uncertain significance).
    The Japanese recently discovered a possible mechanism for ADE (antibody dependant enhancement) in Covid.

    An infectivity-enhancing site on the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein is targeted by COVID-19 patient antibodies
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.18.423358v1.full.pdf
    SARS-CoV-2 infection causes severe symptoms in a subset of patients, suggesting the presence of certain unknown risk factors. Although antibodies against the receptor- binding domain (RBD) of the SARS-CoV-2 spike have been shown prevent SARS-CoV-2 infection, the effects of antibodies against other spike protein domains are largely unknown. Here, we screened a series of anti-spike monoclonal antibodies from COVID- 19 patients, and found that some of antibodies against the N-terminal domain (NTD) dramatically enhanced the binding capacity of the spike protein to ACE2, and thus increased SARS-CoV2 infectivity. Surprisingly, mutational analysis revealed that all the infectivity-enhancing antibodies recognized a specific site on the surface of the NTD. The antibodies against this infectivity-enhancing site were detected in all samples of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in the study. However, the ratio of infectivity-enhancing antibodies to neutralizing antibodies differed among patients. Furthermore, the antibodies against the infectivity-enhancing site were detected in 3 out of 48 uninfected donors, albeit at low levels. These findings suggest that the production of antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 infectivity-enhancing site could be considered as a possible exacerbating factors for COVID-19 and that a spike protein lacking such antibody epitopes may be required for safe vaccine development, especially for individuals with pre-existing enhancing antibodies.

    So one wonders if the patients who are getting very sick have antibodies from a previous infection (possibly not even sars/Covid related? It also seems possible that a screening programme for these people could be possible. Not necessarily a bad discovery.
    Far more likely that they are antibodies generated by the current infection, I think.
    But don’t forget that every individual when infected makes many different antibodies to the virus all at once, and as the paper notes, the amount of this specific one varies greatly, and the significance of its negative effect is for now uncertain.

    One of the things that has become clear to me this year is that there is an awful lot we still just don’t know about the immensely complicated details of immune response to viruses.
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    stjohn said:

    19 down. Time Man. Yes.

    Call = name. University = MIT. Up regarding means read the letters upwards. Name MIT read upwards = Time Man. Former annual award = Time Man of the Year. Now it’s Time Person.

    Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, apparently, so it is Time People of the Year. It seems a premature award and smacks of Barack Obama's Nobel Prize for Not Being George Bush.
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,779
    15 across. August. Yes.

    Revolution = circle = “O”. Pinochet = Augusto. August(o) ignoring “O” = August. Respected = august.

    5 down. Treaties. Yes.

    Pleasure = treat. European = E. Is securing E = I(E)s. Treat + I(e)s = Treaties. Agreements = Treaties.
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,779
    edited December 2020
    3 down. Carrie Symonds. Yes.

    Wins = carries, as in carries the vote or the day. My backing (reversing) = YM. Off = anagram indicator as in spoiled or rotten. Nods “off” = onds. Carries +ym + onds = Carrie Symonds. Along with Boris and Wilfred she is currently residing at Number 11 Downing Street.
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,772
    Merry Christmas fellow Europeans. I'm terrible at cryptic crosswords
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,649
    stjohn said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is a little troubling (though of uncertain significance).
    The Japanese recently discovered a possible mechanism for ADE (antibody dependant enhancement) in Covid.

    An infectivity-enhancing site on the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein is targeted by COVID-19 patient antibodies
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.18.423358v1.full.pdf
    SARS-CoV-2 infection causes severe symptoms in a subset of patients, suggesting the presence of certain unknown risk factors. Although antibodies against the receptor- binding domain (RBD) of the SARS-CoV-2 spike have been shown prevent SARS-CoV-2 infection, the effects of antibodies against other spike protein domains are largely unknown. Here, we screened a series of anti-spike monoclonal antibodies from COVID- 19 patients, and found that some of antibodies against the N-terminal domain (NTD) dramatically enhanced the binding capacity of the spike protein to ACE2, and thus increased SARS-CoV2 infectivity. Surprisingly, mutational analysis revealed that all the infectivity-enhancing antibodies recognized a specific site on the surface of the NTD. The antibodies against this infectivity-enhancing site were detected in all samples of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in the study. However, the ratio of infectivity-enhancing antibodies to neutralizing antibodies differed among patients. Furthermore, the antibodies against the infectivity-enhancing site were detected in 3 out of 48 uninfected donors, albeit at low levels. These findings suggest that the production of antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 infectivity-enhancing site could be considered as a possible exacerbating factors for COVID-19 and that a spike protein lacking such antibody epitopes may be required for safe vaccine development, especially for individuals with pre-existing enhancing antibodies.

    Nigelb. What do you think are the possible implications for the current vaccines?

    I don’t know.
    But from the efficacy data (certainly for the mRNA ones) it would seem not all that much. And recall that alongside their efficacy at preventing infection, there have also been very few if any cases of severe disease.

    It’s quite possible that for most people the effect of the ‘bad’ antibody is entirely drowned out by all the others.

    If we end up needing to tweak them (as has been talked about for the current mutation), then it would certainly seem to make sense to remove this bit of the spike from the vaccine redesign.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    2 nanking
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,779
    2 down. Nanking. Yes.

    Relative = Nan (grandma). Activist = (Martin Luther) King. Nan + King = Nanking. There was an historical massacre at Nanking. Now Nanjing - which would have been harder to clue!
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,649
    edited December 2020
    stjohn said:

    3 down. Carrie Symonds. Yes.

    Wins = carries, as in carries the vote or the day. My backing (reversing) = YM. Off = anagram indicator as in spoiled or rotten. Nods “off” = onds. Carries +ym + onds = Carrie Symonds. Along with Boris and Wilfred she is currently residing at Number 11 Downing Street.

    I shall have to study your explanations. I’ve never had the patience for cryptic crosswords, but your listing of anagram indicators looks as though it might provide an easier way in.
    And the realisation that there are lots of terrible puns in there adds to the appeal :smile:
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,543
    Merry Christmas everybody.

    Though there's little to be festive about, I confess to being fairly happy that I am girding my loins to cook for two today, rather than the normal eight. It will be a more relaxing if less joyous day. Indeed, it was only listening to Cliff Richard on Desert Island Discs that drove me to get up and see if anybody on here was around.
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    SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 599
    Is 12 across Filibuster?
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,772
    Watching the news, I see they've started vacinations in Mexico
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    1d MOGG short time = mo, horse = gg
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,779
    Nigelb said:

    stjohn said:

    3 down. Carrie Symonds. Yes.

    Wins = carries, as in carries the vote or the day. My backing (reversing) = YM. Off = anagram indicator as in spoiled or rotten. Nods “off” = onds. Carries +ym + onds = Carrie Symonds. Along with Boris and Wilfred she is currently residing at Number 11 Downing Street.

    I shall have to study your explanations. I’ve never had the patience for cryptic crosswords, but your listing of anagram indicators looks as though it might provide an easier way in.
    And the realisation that there are lots of terrible puns in there adds to the appeal :smile:
    If you can understand viral genetic coding, as I know you do, cryptic crosswords are definitely accessible to you. They are both just recipes really!
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    stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,779
    12 across. Filibuster. Yes.

    A US state = Philly (Philadelphia). A US man = buster. A US statesman = Philly buster. Reportedly = sounds like. Sounds like Philly buster = Filibuster. Political tactic = Filibuster.

    1 down. Mogg. Yes.

    Short time = mo(ment). Horse = GG (gee-gee, a child’s word for a horse). Mo on GG = Mogg. Tory Rees-Mogg with half the letters cut = Mogg
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    Happy Christmas all PB'ers. What a releif to get to Christmas with a watertight deal and a perfect vaccine.
    Call me a cynic but I thought it was all going tits up!
    What's the chances of Francois and co producing an uber critical appraisal?
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    Our last Christmas in England Incha'Allah
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    What a Christmas present!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,649

    Happy Christmas all PB'ers. What a releif to get to Christmas with a watertight deal and a perfect vaccine.
    Call me a cynic but I thought it was all going tits up!
    What's the chances of Francois and co producing an uber critical appraisal?

    Not sure the deal’s entirely watertight, but it does appear more seaworthy than out new aircraft carriers. And far better than being left to sink or swim without one.

    If the AZN vaccine gets approved, that really would be a Christmas to celebrate.
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    Merry Christmas

    9 EU member states with a smaller population than Scotland have a legal veto on this #BrexitDeal but Scotland's Government has no say whatsoever.

    Torn out the EU against our will and a Power Grab Bill foisted upon us.

    It’s a tragic day for Scotland.
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    9A GENERAL near anag with gel (stick) around
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,649

    What a Christmas present!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news

    I didn’t know you were such a fan of the BBC, but I agree it is a gift to the nation. :smile:
This discussion has been closed.