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The annual StJohn PB Christmas Crossword (est 2007) – politicalbetting.com

13

Comments

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,462

    Carnyx said:

    stjohn said:

    Showing his age.....it hasn't been called Djakarta since 1972.....

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1342233377454305287?s=20

    "My daughter has gone to study in Indonesia."

    "Djakarta?"

    "No, she went on an airplane."
    "My aunt is coming to stay with us this Christmas. She lives in Indonesia."

    "Juwana?"

    "No but no one else will have her".

    “She had to get a connecting flight.”

    “Dubai?”

    “No, she paid for her own tickets.”
    I’m dying to get back to Orkney after lockdown.

    Twatt?

    What the fuck’s your problem pal etc.
    What's amazing is that the village name [Scandinavian, same root as Thwaite etc in N. Eng. etc.] was used for the nearby Fleet Air Arm airfield in WW2, RNAS Twatt aka HMS Tern (in its 'stone frigate' incarnation). It's not as if they had to use the name of the railway station (there being no railways in Orkney, the odd specialist quarry or naval base equipment-shifting aside). Perhaps there was an innocent Wren delegated with the job of picking the name down in the Admiralty.

    Edit: Or a slyly not-so-innocent Wren.

    https://www.forgottenairfields.com/airfield-twatt-884.html
    https://www.mesolithic.co.uk/blog/2019/11/06/3813/
    There is a theory that twat and thwaite have the same derivation meaning clearing in a forest.
    You really have set my mind racing!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,361
    Fishing said:

    MaxPB said:

    Midlander said:

    If I read the deal notes so far, it reads that the UK can get 100% of its fisheries back in 6.5 years, with no tariff consequences. That can't be right can it? Seems crazy favourable to the UK position.

    The EU can apply arbitration approved tariffs to British caught fish if the UK decides to reduce EU quotas. Retaliation seems to be limited to fish which is a great result for the UK.

    Edit: it's also why the UK agreed to the 25% return rather than holing the deal trying to get 35%. As soon as the EU dropped cross sector retaliation fishing stopped being an issue for the UK and the deal was clearly going to happen. In every contentious area the UK has always agreed with arbitration led solutions. It's how pretty much all major trade deals operate so I'm glad to see we've got there in the end.
    Yes, that was my reading of the tea leaves too.
    Am I right in that all disputes (mentioned in the text that I could find) go to arbitration?

    If so, that is a very good thing. All successful international agreements which have any kind of complexity in the implementation have third party arbitration. All the one with arbitrary retaliation by the parties themselves get caught up in using that for domestic politics - see lumber, Canada and the US for example.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    Seen Boris' christmas message - no Carrie ?
  • Carnyx said:

    stjohn said:

    Showing his age.....it hasn't been called Djakarta since 1972.....

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1342233377454305287?s=20

    "My daughter has gone to study in Indonesia."

    "Djakarta?"

    "No, she went on an airplane."
    "My aunt is coming to stay with us this Christmas. She lives in Indonesia."

    "Juwana?"

    "No but no one else will have her".

    “She had to get a connecting flight.”

    “Dubai?”

    “No, she paid for her own tickets.”
    I’m dying to get back to Orkney after lockdown.

    Twatt?

    What the fuck’s your problem pal etc.
    What's amazing is that the village name [Scandinavian, same root as Thwaite etc in N. Eng. etc.] was used for the nearby Fleet Air Arm airfield in WW2, RNAS Twatt aka HMS Tern (in its 'stone frigate' incarnation). It's not as if they had to use the name of the railway station (there being no railways in Orkney, the odd specialist quarry or naval base equipment-shifting aside). Perhaps there was an innocent Wren delegated with the job of picking the name down in the Admiralty.

    Edit: Or a slyly not-so-innocent Wren.

    https://www.forgottenairfields.com/airfield-twatt-884.html
    https://www.mesolithic.co.uk/blog/2019/11/06/3813/
    There is a theory that twat and thwaite have the same derivation meaning clearing in a forest.
    Ah, flashbacks to Rik & Ade's Guest House Paradiso...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    Miss Vance, isn't that just a spelling change?

    Iraq used to be written as Irak.

    Given the Q is just a hard K that probably makes more sense, really...

    All of the recent name changes are pretty daft. The Nanjing isn't much closer to the way the word is pronounced by the Chinese than Nanking.
    I could never hear the difference between Beijing and Peking. I suppose they know what they are doing though.

    ETA I can when they are pronounced completely differently here, but not in Chinese.
    The name hasn't changed in Chinese has it?
    Nope. The name became Beijing when the Chinese adopted pinyin to transliterate the language.
    Although most other Latin-alphabet languages still use variants of Peking.
    I'm sure just that the Chinese characters and Bei Hua pronunciation haven't changed.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    felix said:

    You'd need to look at the details of the Turing scheme but if it is a more-or-less like-for-like replacement then Boris has lured his opponents down a rabbit hole despite the apparent contradiction of his earlier assurances.
    'You'd need to look at the details' will be the epitaph of the BJ premiership.
    Along with 'you two faced son of a bitch' of course.
    Listening to him last night it isn't equivalent. Our students go, but no-one comes.
    As someone whose family benefited, and who acted as a host, I think UK's withdrawal is dreadful.
    That is a stupid mistake. We benefit from the brightest foreigners coming here in a sort-of reverse brain drain.
    It isn't just the brightest we want; it's the 'ordinary' getting experience of similar but different cultures and ways of life, and enjoying the experience. Making us realise that whatever language we speak, whatever our skin colour, we're all humans.
    Then having a scheme open to the world may represent an improvement. It was the EU who chose to triple the price of Erasmus.
    I refer to my earlier comment. According to Johnson last night the Turing scheme is one way only.
    That’s because these deals are usually bilateral (Chevening is an exception). Each country pays for their own students
    International schemes have long existed by exchange. I had a neice on exchange in University of BC until she returned early due to lockdowns.

    The best bits of the Deal are merely fragments of what we used to have. It is a strange thing to celebrate, the loss of freedoms.

    Something to build on, I suppose and better than a hostile No Deal. I am sure that the EU is glad to be rid of us whingers.

    Nice frosty walk with the hound, so let the feasting begin.
    Leaving a club means that you don’t have access to the arrangements. In this case the associate member fee was ridiculous and the decision was taken that we could replicate the benefits, gain more from a new scheme and at a lower cost.

    More generally you don’t value the gains from leaving the EU so just highlight the negatives. A more balanced view says it has pros and cons
    Zero benefit to me or my family, just losses.

    Nice Christmas bonus from my hospital though as a surprise. They distributed the CEA monies equally this year.
    You are focused on grubby personal gain. That’s not what Brexit is about. But you, as part of the collective, have gain
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,696
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    felix said:

    You'd need to look at the details of the Turing scheme but if it is a more-or-less like-for-like replacement then Boris has lured his opponents down a rabbit hole despite the apparent contradiction of his earlier assurances.
    'You'd need to look at the details' will be the epitaph of the BJ premiership.
    Along with 'you two faced son of a bitch' of course.
    Listening to him last night it isn't equivalent. Our students go, but no-one comes.
    As someone whose family benefited, and who acted as a host, I think UK's withdrawal is dreadful.
    That is a stupid mistake. We benefit from the brightest foreigners coming here in a sort-of reverse brain drain.
    It isn't just the brightest we want; it's the 'ordinary' getting experience of similar but different cultures and ways of life, and enjoying the experience. Making us realise that whatever language we speak, whatever our skin colour, we're all humans.
    Then having a scheme open to the world may represent an improvement. It was the EU who chose to triple the price of Erasmus.
    I refer to my earlier comment. According to Johnson last night the Turing scheme is one way only.
    That’s because these deals are usually bilateral (Chevening is an exception). Each country pays for their own students
    International schemes have long existed by exchange. I had a neice on exchange in University of BC until she returned early due to lockdowns.

    The best bits of the Deal are merely fragments of what we used to have. It is a strange thing to celebrate, the loss of freedoms.

    Something to build on, I suppose and better than a hostile No Deal. I am sure that the EU is glad to be rid of us whingers.

    Nice frosty walk with the hound, so let the feasting begin.
    Leaving a club means that you don’t have access to the arrangements. In this case the associate member fee was ridiculous and the decision was taken that we could replicate the benefits, gain more from a new scheme and at a lower cost.

    More generally you don’t value the gains from leaving the EU so just highlight the negatives. A more balanced view says it has pros and cons
    Zero benefit to me or my family, just losses.

    Nice Christmas bonus from my hospital though as a surprise. They distributed the CEA monies equally this year.
    You are focused on grubby personal gain. That’s not what Brexit is about. But you, as part of the collective, have gain
    We’re taking away the little people’s freedom for their own good?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    "Oh, you shouldn't have....no really, you shouldn't have...."


  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    CatMan said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    felix said:

    You'd need to look at the details of the Turing scheme but if it is a more-or-less like-for-like replacement then Boris has lured his opponents down a rabbit hole despite the apparent contradiction of his earlier assurances.
    'You'd need to look at the details' will be the epitaph of the BJ premiership.
    Along with 'you two faced son of a bitch' of course.
    Listening to him last night it isn't equivalent. Our students go, but no-one comes.
    As someone whose family benefited, and who acted as a host, I think UK's withdrawal is dreadful.
    That is a stupid mistake. We benefit from the brightest foreigners coming here in a sort-of reverse brain drain.
    It isn't just the brightest we want; it's the 'ordinary' getting experience of similar but different cultures and ways of life, and enjoying the experience. Making us realise that whatever language we speak, whatever our skin colour, we're all humans.
    Then having a scheme open to the world may represent an improvement. It was the EU who chose to triple the price of Erasmus.
    I refer to my earlier comment. According to Johnson last night the Turing scheme is one way only.
    That’s because these deals are usually bilateral (Chevening is an exception). Each country pays for their own students
    International schemes have long existed by exchange. I had a neice on exchange in University of BC until she returned early due to lockdowns.

    The best bits of the Deal are merely fragments of what we used to have. It is a strange thing to celebrate, the loss of freedoms.

    Something to build on, I suppose and better than a hostile No Deal. I am sure that the EU is glad to be rid of us whingers.

    Nice frosty walk with the hound, so let the feasting begin.
    Leaving a club means that you don’t have access to the arrangements. In this case the associate member fee was ridiculous and the decision was taken that we could replicate the benefits, gain more from a new scheme and at a lower cost.

    More generally you don’t value the gains from leaving the EU so just highlight the negatives. A more balanced view says it has pros and cons
    All the money we save in not paying membership fees will probably be lost by businesses with customs declarations (and lost GDP)
    Again with the economics
  • 24a Norma Major
    22d Barack
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    24 across. Norma Major. Yes.

    Serious = major. Work, it’s noted = Norma (the opera. A work with musical notes). Major after Norma = Norma Major. PM’s trouble (and strife = wife) is Norma Major.

    22 down. Barack. Yes.

    Support = Back. Republican = R. Arresting = capturing. Back capturing or surrounding “a R” = B (a R) ack. President = Barack (Obama).
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited December 2020
    I think the biggest issue for the survival of civilization is climate change.
    So here's a question: will the fragmentation of Europe, and in particular the UK, help or hinder mankind's chances?
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Just 4 left to do.

    Across 6 and 13. Down 7 and 17.
  • stjohn said:

    Just 4 left to do.

    Across 6 and 13. Down 7 and 17.

    Is there a typo in clue 7 ("closed") or do I need to stare at it harder?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    edited December 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Wor Lass has just served Christmas dinner...

    ...to the sheep in the field behind our garden.

    Apples and hay.

    My turn later.

    My other half was cooking fish the other week. Looks nice I said, wasn't my tea - was for the cats !
    Earlier this week I had a piece of fish taken off my plate and given to the neighbours' cat!

    Edit: Talk of the devil - it has just turned up at the back door!
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861

    stjohn said:

    Just 4 left to do.

    Across 6 and 13. Down 7 and 17.

    Is there a typo in clue 7 ("closed") or do I need to stare at it harder?
    I don't think so. What were you thinking?
  • stjohn said:

    stjohn said:

    Just 4 left to do.

    Across 6 and 13. Down 7 and 17.

    Is there a typo in clue 7 ("closed") or do I need to stare at it harder?
    I don't think so. What were you thinking?
    Nothing really. Just that it almost reads like a sentence.
  • stjohn said:

    stjohn said:

    Just 4 left to do.

    Across 6 and 13. Down 7 and 17.

    Is there a typo in clue 7 ("closed") or do I need to stare at it harder?
    I don't think so. What were you thinking?
    Nothing really. Just that it almost reads like a sentence.
    I was wondering about "Toronto" - but can't quite make it work
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Fishing said:

    MaxPB said:

    Midlander said:

    If I read the deal notes so far, it reads that the UK can get 100% of its fisheries back in 6.5 years, with no tariff consequences. That can't be right can it? Seems crazy favourable to the UK position.

    The EU can apply arbitration approved tariffs to British caught fish if the UK decides to reduce EU quotas. Retaliation seems to be limited to fish which is a great result for the UK.

    Edit: it's also why the UK agreed to the 25% return rather than holing the deal trying to get 35%. As soon as the EU dropped cross sector retaliation fishing stopped being an issue for the UK and the deal was clearly going to happen. In every contentious area the UK has always agreed with arbitration led solutions. It's how pretty much all major trade deals operate so I'm glad to see we've got there in the end.
    Yes, that was my reading of the tea leaves too.
    Am I right in that all disputes (mentioned in the text that I could find) go to arbitration?

    If so, that is a very good thing. All successful international agreements which have any kind of complexity in the implementation have third party arbitration. All the one with arbitrary retaliation by the parties themselves get caught up in using that for domestic politics - see lumber, Canada and the US for example.
    Yes, all disputes are subject to arbitration and all tariffs are arbitration set. It's a proper trade agreement where neither side really has much control over the other.
  • Was hoping to get some of these for Christmas but no luck

  • Just enjoyed some Scottish fudge. And some Scotch whisky chocolate liqueurs.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,244
    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    If the current EU share of fish caught in UK waters is 50% and they lose 25% of that 50%, then their overall share declines from 50% to 37.5%, which is just over one third.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    7 down. Toronto. Yes.

    Closed = To. As in the door was “to”, as opposed to ajar. Reagan = Ron. To, (from closed) then to supporting Ron =To + Ron + to.
    Where G 20 summit was = Toronto, (in 2010).
  • stjohn said:

    7 down. Toronto. Yes.

    Closed = To. As in the door was “to”, as opposed to ajar. Reagan = Ron. To, (from closed) then to supporting Ron =To + Ron + to.
    Where G 20 summit was = Toronto, (in 2010).

    Witchcraft.
  • FlannerFlanner Posts: 437
    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
  • Was hoping to get some of these for Christmas but no luck

    I bet you're fun at parties.....
  • 17d Disraeli

    I'm completely stumped by the last two - 6 & 13
  • As an aside, when I did Psychology at university (psychology being a fun subject which ranges from scientific biology to sociological daftness) almost everyone else had a Psych A-level as their qualifying subject. I had Maths (not a great grade...) which proved surprisingly useful. Easy to make errors, though.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,244
    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
  • MaxPB said:

    Fishing said:

    MaxPB said:

    Midlander said:

    If I read the deal notes so far, it reads that the UK can get 100% of its fisheries back in 6.5 years, with no tariff consequences. That can't be right can it? Seems crazy favourable to the UK position.

    The EU can apply arbitration approved tariffs to British caught fish if the UK decides to reduce EU quotas. Retaliation seems to be limited to fish which is a great result for the UK.

    Edit: it's also why the UK agreed to the 25% return rather than holing the deal trying to get 35%. As soon as the EU dropped cross sector retaliation fishing stopped being an issue for the UK and the deal was clearly going to happen. In every contentious area the UK has always agreed with arbitration led solutions. It's how pretty much all major trade deals operate so I'm glad to see we've got there in the end.
    Yes, that was my reading of the tea leaves too.
    Am I right in that all disputes (mentioned in the text that I could find) go to arbitration?

    If so, that is a very good thing. All successful international agreements which have any kind of complexity in the implementation have third party arbitration. All the one with arbitrary retaliation by the parties themselves get caught up in using that for domestic politics - see lumber, Canada and the US for example.
    Yes, all disputes are subject to arbitration and all tariffs are arbitration set. It's a proper trade agreement where neither side really has much control over the other.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    Who does the arbitration?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882
    edited December 2020
    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    In fairness the original text is ambiguous and could be read as percentage points - which is actually the usual default option for journos.

    And a fall from a half to a third is 16.66 (recurring) percentage points. The error between your (perfectly correct) option and 33.33 is almost 4.2 percentage points - quite large in relation to the drop. "A fall from half to three-eighths" would be just as clear and more accurate.

    Edit: I speak as a science graduate in biological sciences who ended up using his maths with mecvhanics A level in many ways, from host-parasite population dynamics to structural analysis, in his biological work.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    37.5% isn't about a third. It is exactly three-eighths.

    We might as well say that annual GDP growth and inflation are usually 'about zero'.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    17 down. Disraeli. Yes.

    Papers = ID (identity papers). Papers reflected = DI. State = Israel. DI over or around Israel = D(Israel)I. Prime Minister = Disraeli.
  • A month ago my old Laptop died and I asked for advice regarding getting a new gaming one on a budget.

    Thank you again to everyone who gave advice, I got one today under the tree this morning.

    I've long used HP for my Laptops, this one is an ASUS Tuf Gaming model.
  • Just finished dressing for a late Christmas lunch


  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,244
    edited December 2020
    Carnyx said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    In fairness the original text is ambiguous and could be read as percentage points - which is actually the usual default option for journos.

    And a fall from a half to a third is 16.66 (recurring) percentage points. The error between your (perfectly correct) option and 33.33 is almost 4.2 percentage points - quite large in relation to the drop. "A fall from half to three-eighths" would be just as clear and more accurate.

    Edit: I speak as a science graduate in biological sciences who ended up using his maths with mecvhanics A level in many ways, from host-parasite population dynamics to structural analysis, in his biological work.
    I think that @Carnyx has put the details more clearly than I did.

    Thanks for the vigour of your reply.

    Were I wording that sentence I would not have mixed percentages and fractions, or the quantum I were taking as denominator, across the two halves of the sentence, and I would have specified one or both explicitly to prevent any ambiguity eg

    "During a five-and-a-half year transition period, the amount that EU fishermen and women can catch in British waters will fall by a quarter of their existing catch - from current levels of around half to one third of total catch."

    The ambiguity in the numbers alongside the fussiness of "fishermen and women" is interesting. I would just have let "fishermen" be inclusive or used a different term.

    I guess the Arts/Science-Engineering divide is highlighted there.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Miss Vance, isn't that just a spelling change?

    Iraq used to be written as Irak.

    Given the Q is just a hard K that probably makes more sense, really...

    All of the recent name changes are pretty daft. The Nanjing isn't much closer to the way the word is pronounced by the Chinese than Nanking.
    I could never hear the difference between Beijing and Peking. I suppose they know what they are doing though.

    ETA I can when they are pronounced completely differently here, but not in Chinese.
    The name hasn't changed in Chinese has it?
    The airport is still PEK, no matter what they argue about calling the city.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    The last two are maybe both a bit iffy.

    6 across. -T-T. It is a Latin abbreviation and not a commonly used word. But it is defined in, amongst others, Collins dictionary.

    13 across. N-S. Think slightly laterally.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    edited December 2020
    Just doing a Christmas themed quiz with the folks.
    "In which city is Die Hard set?"
  • andypetuk said:

    17d Disraeli

    I'm completely stumped by the last two - 6 & 13

    6 Cut government without delay. Stat fits, and is what they shout in House and other American medical shows to mean "without delay". What it's got to do with the first half of the clue is anyone's guess. Stat is state with the e cut off but state does not mean government so that's no help.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,244
    edited December 2020

    37.5% isn't about a third. It is exactly three-eighths.

    We might as well say that annual GDP growth and inflation are usually 'about zero'.

    I think I'm gong for a walk, having started this rabbithole.

    Though I'd say that I would not call 37.5 "about a third" as it rounds to 40%.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    6 across. Stat. Yes

    Cambridge dictionary defines state as a country or its government. And stat(e) cut is stat. Which as you say means without delay, (statim), when used by medics.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Pulpstar said:

    Seen Boris' christmas message - no Carrie ?

    Any violins?
  • MattW said:

    37.5% isn't about a third. It is exactly three-eighths.

    We might as well say that annual GDP growth and inflation are usually 'about zero'.

    I think I'm gong for a walk, having started this rabbithole.

    Though I'd say that I would not call 37.5 "about a third" as it rounds to 40%.
    Ah, but we started with "around half" not exactly 50 per cent.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Whoever gets the last one, 13 across, deserves a clap.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882
    stjohn said:

    Whoever gets the last one, 13 across, deserves a clap.

    Of course! Tend-er. NHS.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    13 across. NHS. Yes.

    Tender = one who cares, looks after, treats. Large government carer = NHS.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,244

    MattW said:

    37.5% isn't about a third. It is exactly three-eighths.

    We might as well say that annual GDP growth and inflation are usually 'about zero'.

    I think I'm gong for a walk, having started this rabbithole.

    Though I'd say that I would not call 37.5 "about a third" as it rounds to 40%.
    Ah, but we started with "around half" not exactly 50 per cent.
    Yes - and rereading, the "a third" is exact. As is the "25%".

    So that must make the other term of the equation exact as well.

    The issues are ambiguity and inconsistency.

    And now for that constitutional.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Thanks for this @stjohn for this. Way above my abilities but a great Christmas tradition.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited December 2020
    Harry & Meghan officially scrubbed
  • Mr. Ping, meaning?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Liz was a bit full-on with the religious stuff this year.
  • Liz was a bit full-on with the religious stuff this year.

    Was there buzzword betting on the speech? I forgot to look.
  • Mr. JohnL, not sure about Ladbrokes, there was elsewhere. I vaguely recall someone tipping 'Jesus Christ' and one other item.
  • stjohn said:

    Whoever gets the last one, 13 across, deserves a clap.

    Thanks for the big clue.
  • MattW said:

    MattW said:

    37.5% isn't about a third. It is exactly three-eighths.

    We might as well say that annual GDP growth and inflation are usually 'about zero'.

    I think I'm gong for a walk, having started this rabbithole.

    Though I'd say that I would not call 37.5 "about a third" as it rounds to 40%.
    Ah, but we started with "around half" not exactly 50 per cent.
    Yes - and rereading, the "a third" is exact. As is the "25%".

    So that must make the other term of the equation exact as well.

    The issues are ambiguity and inconsistency.

    And now for that constitutional.
    The starting point would have to be 44.44% recurring then if the other two were exact.

    Not sure I'd call 44.44% "around half".
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    felix said:

    You'd need to look at the details of the Turing scheme but if it is a more-or-less like-for-like replacement then Boris has lured his opponents down a rabbit hole despite the apparent contradiction of his earlier assurances.
    'You'd need to look at the details' will be the epitaph of the BJ premiership.
    Along with 'you two faced son of a bitch' of course.
    Listening to him last night it isn't equivalent. Our students go, but no-one comes.
    As someone whose family benefited, and who acted as a host, I think UK's withdrawal is dreadful.
    That is a stupid mistake. We benefit from the brightest foreigners coming here in a sort-of reverse brain drain.
    It isn't just the brightest we want; it's the 'ordinary' getting experience of similar but different cultures and ways of life, and enjoying the experience. Making us realise that whatever language we speak, whatever our skin colour, we're all humans.
    Then having a scheme open to the world may represent an improvement. It was the EU who chose to triple the price of Erasmus.
    I refer to my earlier comment. According to Johnson last night the Turing scheme is one way only.
    That’s because these deals are usually bilateral (Chevening is an exception). Each country pays for their own students
    International schemes have long existed by exchange. I had a neice on exchange in University of BC until she returned early due to lockdowns.

    The best bits of the Deal are merely fragments of what we used to have. It is a strange thing to celebrate, the loss of freedoms.

    Something to build on, I suppose and better than a hostile No Deal. I am sure that the EU is glad to be rid of us whingers.

    Nice frosty walk with the hound, so let the feasting begin.
    Leaving a club means that you don’t have access to the arrangements. In this case the associate member fee was ridiculous and the decision was taken that we could replicate the benefits, gain more from a new scheme and at a lower cost.

    More generally you don’t value the gains from leaving the EU so just highlight the negatives. A more balanced view says it has pros and cons
    Zero benefit to me or my family, just losses.

    Nice Christmas bonus from my hospital though as a surprise. They distributed the CEA monies equally this year.
    You are focused on grubby personal gain. That’s not what Brexit is about. But you, as part of the collective, have gain
    😂😂
  • Liz was a bit full-on with the religious stuff this year.

    Glad I never watch it then.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited December 2020

    Mr. Ping, meaning?

    With the fall from grace of Andrew & Harry... Gotta feel a bit sorry for Will & Kate’s spares. Their futures foretold.
  • Mr. Ping, well, they made their choices. Harry buggered up what could've been a perfectly graceful exit, though.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    We are having our Christmas dinner at tea time. Which means that it is now time to peel the sprouts.

    Laters...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    I bet she loves going on those early morning raids. :D
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,696
    rcs1000 said:

    Our dog (Chica) went crazy, walking my wife and I.

    You’re supposed to be the one walking the dog. :)
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited December 2020
    MattW said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
    The other interpretation is incorrect, but much repeated, including here, and also by our lying government. Perhaps surprisingly the EU encouraged people to think their claim was bigger than it was by referring to a percentage of their current allocation rather than the total, which would be smaller. I guess they don't care about what people in the UK, and now outside the EU, think.

    Details in this thread. Note the "about one third/about one half" refers to fish landings by weight, not value. The rEU fish larger proportions of cheaper species out of UK waters.

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1337406498398498816
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
    The other interpretation is incorrect, but much repeated, including here, and also by our lying government. Perhaps surprisingly the EU encouraged people to think their claim was bigger than it was by referring to a percentage of their current allocation rather than the total, which would be smaller. I guess they don't care about what people in the UK, and now outside the EU, think.

    Details in this thread. Note the "about one third/about one half" refers to fish landings by weight, not value. The rEU fish larger proportions of cheaper species out of UK waters.

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1337406498398498816
    The entire discussion about what fraction they will give back is quite ridiculous. At the end of the 5.5 years they will have no inherent right to any fish in British waters. Who really cares if that takes a few years to achieve?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713

    Liz was a bit full-on with the religious stuff this year.

    Cramming for finals...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited December 2020
    ..
    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
    The other interpretation is incorrect, but much repeated, including here, and also by our lying government. Perhaps surprisingly the EU encouraged people to think their claim was bigger than it was by referring to a percentage of their current allocation rather than the total, which would be smaller. I guess they don't care about what people in the UK, and now outside the EU, think.

    Details in this thread. Note the "about one third/about one half" refers to fish landings by weight, not value. The rEU fish larger proportions of cheaper species out of UK waters.

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1337406498398498816
    The entire discussion about what fraction they will give back is quite ridiculous. At the end of the 5.5 years they will have no inherent right to any fish in British waters. Who really cares if that takes a few years to achieve?
    No inherent right is correct. Do you think the EU will substantially lose access to UK waters after 5.5 years? They don't have any inherent right to it, now, but they kept 75% of what they had before ...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    edited December 2020
    FF43 said:

    ..

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
    The other interpretation is incorrect, but much repeated, including here, and also by our lying government. Perhaps surprisingly the EU encouraged people to think their claim was bigger than it was by referring to a percentage of their current allocation rather than the total, which would be smaller. I guess they don't care about what people in the UK, and now outside the EU, think.

    Details in this thread. Note the "about one third/about one half" refers to fish landings by weight, not value. The rEU fish larger proportions of cheaper species out of UK waters.

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1337406498398498816
    The entire discussion about what fraction they will give back is quite ridiculous. At the end of the 5.5 years they will have no inherent right to any fish in British waters. Who really cares if that takes a few years to achieve?
    No inherent right is correct. Do you think the EU will substantially lose access to UK waters after 5.5 years? They don't have any inherent right to it, now, but they kept 75% of what they had before ...
    I think the negotiations will be far easier when they aren't tied to securing a FTA. And they do have an inherent right to it, it's guaranteed by the deal just signed. Afterwards it is annual negotiations.
  • FF43 said:

    ..

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
    The other interpretation is incorrect, but much repeated, including here, and also by our lying government. Perhaps surprisingly the EU encouraged people to think their claim was bigger than it was by referring to a percentage of their current allocation rather than the total, which would be smaller. I guess they don't care about what people in the UK, and now outside the EU, think.

    Details in this thread. Note the "about one third/about one half" refers to fish landings by weight, not value. The rEU fish larger proportions of cheaper species out of UK waters.

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1337406498398498816
    The entire discussion about what fraction they will give back is quite ridiculous. At the end of the 5.5 years they will have no inherent right to any fish in British waters. Who really cares if that takes a few years to achieve?
    No inherent right is correct. Do you think the EU will substantially lose access to UK waters after 5.5 years? They don't have any inherent right to it, now, but they kept 75% of what they had before ...
    They kept 75% while using that as a bargaining chip in negotiations for an FTA. Going forwards that will no longer apply anymore, that chip is gone.

    Furthermore its also worth remembering that the UK gets some fish out of EU waters and I believe that is continuing. If the EU were to get roughly the same as the UK out of each others reciprocal waters there'd be no need for either side to want to reduce it anymore.
  • England only (the rest are on their hols - Wales for a day, later Jan 1, NI 24-28 and Sc 25-28 & 1-4)

  • FlannerFlanner Posts: 437
    Carnyx said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    In fairness the original text is ambiguous and could be read as percentage points - which is actually the usual default option for journos.

    And a fall from a half to a third is 16.66 (recurring) percentage points. The error between your (perfectly correct) option and 33.33 is almost 4.2 percentage points - quite large in relation to the drop. "A fall from half to three-eighths" would be just as clear and more accurate.

    Edit: I speak as a science graduate in biological sciences who ended up using his maths with mecvhanics A level in many ways, from host-parasite population dynamics to structural analysis, in his biological work.
    You're demonstrating brilliantly that you'd never be admitted to do Greats, even if your Greek were as flawless as Demosthenes'. And will NEVER win a Nobel prize.

    Just not numerate enough
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    rcs1000 said:

    Happy Christmas all.

    At 4am, one of our cats (Diego) vomited on my wife and my bed. We cleaned that up and opened the door to our bedroom to let him leave.

    By about 445am, we were back to sleep.

    At around 5am, another of our cats (Lashers) jumped on the bed (she's normally banned). Our dog (Chica) went crazy, walking my wife and I.

    We calmed all the animals down.

    At 530am, Lashers decided she wanted to be fed. She started pawing my face. When I didn't move, went from gentle pawing to pawing with claws extended.

    I get up. Kick her out the bedroom.

    Try and get some more sleep.

    I'm not a happy bunny this morning.

    We have five animals (three cats and two dogs). If anyone wants any of them, I'm happy to FedEx them free of charge.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0ffwDYo00Q
  • FF43 said:

    ..

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
    The other interpretation is incorrect, but much repeated, including here, and also by our lying government. Perhaps surprisingly the EU encouraged people to think their claim was bigger than it was by referring to a percentage of their current allocation rather than the total, which would be smaller. I guess they don't care about what people in the UK, and now outside the EU, think.

    Details in this thread. Note the "about one third/about one half" refers to fish landings by weight, not value. The rEU fish larger proportions of cheaper species out of UK waters.

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1337406498398498816
    The entire discussion about what fraction they will give back is quite ridiculous. At the end of the 5.5 years they will have no inherent right to any fish in British waters. Who really cares if that takes a few years to achieve?
    No inherent right is correct. Do you think the EU will substantially lose access to UK waters after 5.5 years? They don't have any inherent right to it, now, but they kept 75% of what they had before ...
    They kept 75% while using that as a bargaining chip in negotiations for an FTA. Going forwards that will no longer apply anymore, that chip is gone.

    Furthermore its also worth remembering that the UK gets some fish out of EU waters and I believe that is continuing. If the EU were to get roughly the same as the UK out of each others reciprocal waters there'd be no need for either side to want to reduce it anymore.
    The UK clearly won overall on fish once the transition is over. It also kept out of dynamic alignment and even a ratchet clause. State aid being distortionary will be decided by a UK domestic body. That is every point of contention decided in the UK's favour. Plus the rules of origin decisions allow the UK to keep its EU supply chains. David Frost has played a blinder.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    Midlander said:

    FF43 said:

    ..

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
    The other interpretation is incorrect, but much repeated, including here, and also by our lying government. Perhaps surprisingly the EU encouraged people to think their claim was bigger than it was by referring to a percentage of their current allocation rather than the total, which would be smaller. I guess they don't care about what people in the UK, and now outside the EU, think.

    Details in this thread. Note the "about one third/about one half" refers to fish landings by weight, not value. The rEU fish larger proportions of cheaper species out of UK waters.

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1337406498398498816
    The entire discussion about what fraction they will give back is quite ridiculous. At the end of the 5.5 years they will have no inherent right to any fish in British waters. Who really cares if that takes a few years to achieve?
    No inherent right is correct. Do you think the EU will substantially lose access to UK waters after 5.5 years? They don't have any inherent right to it, now, but they kept 75% of what they had before ...
    They kept 75% while using that as a bargaining chip in negotiations for an FTA. Going forwards that will no longer apply anymore, that chip is gone.

    Furthermore its also worth remembering that the UK gets some fish out of EU waters and I believe that is continuing. If the EU were to get roughly the same as the UK out of each others reciprocal waters there'd be no need for either side to want to reduce it anymore.
    The UK clearly won overall on fish once the transition is over. It also kept out of dynamic alignment and even a ratchet clause. State aid being distortionary will be decided by a UK domestic body. That is every point of contention decided in the UK's favour. Plus the rules of origin decisions allow the UK to keep its EU supply chains. David Frost has played a blinder.
    I don't think I've seen the word capitulation once. ;)
  • FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
    The other interpretation is incorrect, but much repeated, including here, and also by our lying government. Perhaps surprisingly the EU encouraged people to think their claim was bigger than it was by referring to a percentage of their current allocation rather than the total, which would be smaller. I guess they don't care about what people in the UK, and now outside the EU, think.

    Details in this thread. Note the "about one third/about one half" refers to fish landings by weight, not value. The rEU fish larger proportions of cheaper species out of UK waters.

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1337406498398498816
    Looking at value is misleading because what actual matters for generating work in local ports is weight.
  • MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    If the current EU share of fish caught in UK waters is 50% and they lose 25% of that 50%, then their overall share declines from 50% to 37.5%, which is just over one third.
    or next to F all if you look at it objectively rather than through the end of the telescope the Tories use.
  • RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
    The other interpretation is incorrect, but much repeated, including here, and also by our lying government. Perhaps surprisingly the EU encouraged people to think their claim was bigger than it was by referring to a percentage of their current allocation rather than the total, which would be smaller. I guess they don't care about what people in the UK, and now outside the EU, think.

    Details in this thread. Note the "about one third/about one half" refers to fish landings by weight, not value. The rEU fish larger proportions of cheaper species out of UK waters.

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1337406498398498816
    The entire discussion about what fraction they will give back is quite ridiculous. At the end of the 5.5 years they will have no inherent right to any fish in British waters. Who really cares if that takes a few years to achieve?
    you halfwit , if uk change it after 5 years they can apply tariffs, stupidity abounds.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    edited December 2020

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
    The other interpretation is incorrect, but much repeated, including here, and also by our lying government. Perhaps surprisingly the EU encouraged people to think their claim was bigger than it was by referring to a percentage of their current allocation rather than the total, which would be smaller. I guess they don't care about what people in the UK, and now outside the EU, think.

    Details in this thread. Note the "about one third/about one half" refers to fish landings by weight, not value. The rEU fish larger proportions of cheaper species out of UK waters.

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1337406498398498816
    The entire discussion about what fraction they will give back is quite ridiculous. At the end of the 5.5 years they will have no inherent right to any fish in British waters. Who really cares if that takes a few years to achieve?
    you halfwit , if uk change it after 5 years they can apply tariffs, stupidity abounds.
    I assume you can back up that claim, given you immediately went to calling me a halfwit?

    In reality, those tariff punishments are not connected at all to fishing. The entire fishing quota is negotiated annually after the five and a half years.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,905
    RobD said:

    Midlander said:

    FF43 said:

    ..

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
    The other interpretation is incorrect, but much repeated, including here, and also by our lying government. Perhaps surprisingly the EU encouraged people to think their claim was bigger than it was by referring to a percentage of their current allocation rather than the total, which would be smaller. I guess they don't care about what people in the UK, and now outside the EU, think.

    Details in this thread. Note the "about one third/about one half" refers to fish landings by weight, not value. The rEU fish larger proportions of cheaper species out of UK waters.

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1337406498398498816
    The entire discussion about what fraction they will give back is quite ridiculous. At the end of the 5.5 years they will have no inherent right to any fish in British waters. Who really cares if that takes a few years to achieve?
    No inherent right is correct. Do you think the EU will substantially lose access to UK waters after 5.5 years? They don't have any inherent right to it, now, but they kept 75% of what they had before ...
    They kept 75% while using that as a bargaining chip in negotiations for an FTA. Going forwards that will no longer apply anymore, that chip is gone.

    Furthermore its also worth remembering that the UK gets some fish out of EU waters and I believe that is continuing. If the EU were to get roughly the same as the UK out of each others reciprocal waters there'd be no need for either side to want to reduce it anymore.
    The UK clearly won overall on fish once the transition is over. It also kept out of dynamic alignment and even a ratchet clause. State aid being distortionary will be decided by a UK domestic body. That is every point of contention decided in the UK's favour. Plus the rules of origin decisions allow the UK to keep its EU supply chains. David Frost has played a blinder.
    I don't think I've seen the word capitulation once. ;)
    Still less the phrase "abject capitulation".....
  • Midlander said:

    FF43 said:

    ..

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
    The other interpretation is incorrect, but much repeated, including here, and also by our lying government. Perhaps surprisingly the EU encouraged people to think their claim was bigger than it was by referring to a percentage of their current allocation rather than the total, which would be smaller. I guess they don't care about what people in the UK, and now outside the EU, think.

    Details in this thread. Note the "about one third/about one half" refers to fish landings by weight, not value. The rEU fish larger proportions of cheaper species out of UK waters.

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1337406498398498816
    The entire discussion about what fraction they will give back is quite ridiculous. At the end of the 5.5 years they will have no inherent right to any fish in British waters. Who really cares if that takes a few years to achieve?
    No inherent right is correct. Do you think the EU will substantially lose access to UK waters after 5.5 years? They don't have any inherent right to it, now, but they kept 75% of what they had before ...
    They kept 75% while using that as a bargaining chip in negotiations for an FTA. Going forwards that will no longer apply anymore, that chip is gone.

    Furthermore its also worth remembering that the UK gets some fish out of EU waters and I believe that is continuing. If the EU were to get roughly the same as the UK out of each others reciprocal waters there'd be no need for either side to want to reduce it anymore.
    The UK clearly won overall on fish once the transition is over. It also kept out of dynamic alignment and even a ratchet clause. State aid being distortionary will be decided by a UK domestic body. That is every point of contention decided in the UK's favour. Plus the rules of origin decisions allow the UK to keep its EU supply chains. David Frost has played a blinder.
    another brain dead moron pops up
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    47% (around half)

    Minus 12% (25% of 47%)

    Equals 35% (about 1/3)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited December 2020
    Midlander said:

    FF43 said:

    ..

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
    The other interpretation is incorrect, but much repeated, including here, and also by our lying government. Perhaps surprisingly the EU encouraged people to think their claim was bigger than it was by referring to a percentage of their current allocation rather than the total, which would be smaller. I guess they don't care about what people in the UK, and now outside the EU, think.

    Details in this thread. Note the "about one third/about one half" refers to fish landings by weight, not value. The rEU fish larger proportions of cheaper species out of UK waters.

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1337406498398498816
    The entire discussion about what fraction they will give back is quite ridiculous. At the end of the 5.5 years they will have no inherent right to any fish in British waters. Who really cares if that takes a few years to achieve?
    No inherent right is correct. Do you think the EU will substantially lose access to UK waters after 5.5 years? They don't have any inherent right to it, now, but they kept 75% of what they had before ...
    They kept 75% while using that as a bargaining chip in negotiations for an FTA. Going forwards that will no longer apply anymore, that chip is gone.

    Furthermore its also worth remembering that the UK gets some fish out of EU waters and I believe that is continuing. If the EU were to get roughly the same as the UK out of each others reciprocal waters there'd be no need for either side to want to reduce it anymore.
    The UK clearly won overall on fish once the transition is over. It also kept out of dynamic alignment and even a ratchet clause. State aid being distortionary will be decided by a UK domestic body. That is every point of contention decided in the UK's favour. Plus the rules of origin decisions allow the UK to keep its EU supply chains. David Frost has played a blinder.
    Very well said.

    Shows what happens when a country that holds the cards is prepared to walk away without a deal if need be . . .

    Getting rid of May/Robbins and replacing them with Boris/Frost was the best intraparty change of PM since Chamberlain was replaced with Churchill.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    In fairness the original text is ambiguous and could be read as percentage points - which is actually the usual default option for journos.

    And a fall from a half to a third is 16.66 (recurring) percentage points. The error between your (perfectly correct) option and 33.33 is almost 4.2 percentage points - quite large in relation to the drop. "A fall from half to three-eighths" would be just as clear and more accurate.

    Edit: I speak as a science graduate in biological sciences who ended up using his maths with mecvhanics A level in many ways, from host-parasite population dynamics to structural analysis, in his biological work.
    I think that @Carnyx has put the details more clearly than I did.

    Thanks for the vigour of your reply.

    Were I wording that sentence I would not have mixed percentages and fractions, or the quantum I were taking as denominator, across the two halves of the sentence, and I would have specified one or both explicitly to prevent any ambiguity eg

    "During a five-and-a-half year transition period, the amount that EU fishermen and women can catch in British waters will fall by a quarter of their existing catch - from current levels of around half to one third of total catch."

    The ambiguity in the numbers alongside the fussiness of "fishermen and women" is interesting. I would just have let "fishermen" be inclusive or used a different term.

    I guess the Arts/Science-Engineering divide is highlighted there.
    Fisherfolk is somehow a bit twee..,
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694
    stjohn said:

    Thanks to everyone for the positive comments. Apologies if any of the clues were not entirely accurate or fair. Many thanks to everyone who had a go. Especially SandraMc and andypetuk for keeping things ticking along. And to OGH for indulging me once again.

    So, until next year, hopefully.

    That's all folks!

    Thanks for the crossword. I found it harder than usual this year.
  • Midlander said:

    FF43 said:

    ..

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
    The other interpretation is incorrect, but much repeated, including here, and also by our lying government. Perhaps surprisingly the EU encouraged people to think their claim was bigger than it was by referring to a percentage of their current allocation rather than the total, which would be smaller. I guess they don't care about what people in the UK, and now outside the EU, think.

    Details in this thread. Note the "about one third/about one half" refers to fish landings by weight, not value. The rEU fish larger proportions of cheaper species out of UK waters.

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1337406498398498816
    The entire discussion about what fraction they will give back is quite ridiculous. At the end of the 5.5 years they will have no inherent right to any fish in British waters. Who really cares if that takes a few years to achieve?
    No inherent right is correct. Do you think the EU will substantially lose access to UK waters after 5.5 years? They don't have any inherent right to it, now, but they kept 75% of what they had before ...
    They kept 75% while using that as a bargaining chip in negotiations for an FTA. Going forwards that will no longer apply anymore, that chip is gone.

    Furthermore its also worth remembering that the UK gets some fish out of EU waters and I believe that is continuing. If the EU were to get roughly the same as the UK out of each others reciprocal waters there'd be no need for either side to want to reduce it anymore.
    The UK clearly won overall on fish once the transition is over. It also kept out of dynamic alignment and even a ratchet clause. State aid being distortionary will be decided by a UK domestic body. That is every point of contention decided in the UK's favour. Plus the rules of origin decisions allow the UK to keep its EU supply chains. David Frost has played a blinder.
    another brain dead moron pops up
    You should be celebrating Malcolm.

    Shows that the smaller party that is prepared to walk away can get what it needs regardless of what the larger party says . . . can you think of a time that might be relevant in the near future? 🤔
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    another brain dead moron pops up

    you halfwit , if uk change it after 5 years they can apply tariffs, stupidity abounds.

    On Baby Jesus Day, it's always heartwarming to see the spirit of the season being embraced :smiley:
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited December 2020
    I hope all PBers are having as merry a Christmas as one can in these strange times.

    Peace and goodwill to all. (Normal hostilities can resume tomorrow..)

    Edit: Although I see they've resumed already!
  • Just finished dressing for a late Christmas lunch


    stunning picture
  • As an aside, I played a Formula 1 board game from the 1980s, and rather liked it.

    You choose how fast to move, taking tyre/brake penalties for decelerating too hard, and if you round corners at unsafe speeds the dice are used to determine if any woe befalls you. Pretty good, actually, and much more entertaining than the Monaco Grand Prix.
  • Was hoping to get some of these for Christmas but no luck

    I bet you're fun at parties.....
    I am fun all the time, ex party animal
  • SandraMc said:

    stjohn said:

    Thanks to everyone for the positive comments. Apologies if any of the clues were not entirely accurate or fair. Many thanks to everyone who had a go. Especially SandraMc and andypetuk for keeping things ticking along. And to OGH for indulging me once again.

    So, until next year, hopefully.

    That's all folks!

    Thanks for the crossword. I found it harder than usual this year.
    This is the only crossword I attempt all year, so the first couple of hours are spent reading other people's solutions while trying to remember how to read clues. At first I rely on looking for any word in the clue that has the same number of letters as the answer, and assuming it is an anagram.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    Midlander said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
    The other interpretation is incorrect, but much repeated, including here, and also by our lying government. Perhaps surprisingly the EU encouraged people to think their claim was bigger than it was by referring to a percentage of their current allocation rather than the total, which would be smaller. I guess they don't care about what people in the UK, and now outside the EU, think.

    Details in this thread. Note the "about one third/about one half" refers to fish landings by weight, not value. The rEU fish larger proportions of cheaper species out of UK waters.

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1337406498398498816
    Looking at value is misleading because what actual matters for generating work in local ports is weight.
    Although you won't have a very profitable business if you are expending 99% of the effort for 1% of the value.

  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    Engineering. We have to make the things discovered practical.

    Interesting - should the "25%" be applied to the share of the current catch or the total current catch? I've been seeing both interpretations throughout the fishing conversations, which has made it very difficult to track.

    I read it the other way to you in the piece.

    On the other, I would see the lack of variety in PMs' degree subjects and alma maters as a real problem over time.
    The other interpretation is incorrect, but much repeated, including here, and also by our lying government. Perhaps surprisingly the EU encouraged people to think their claim was bigger than it was by referring to a percentage of their current allocation rather than the total, which would be smaller. I guess they don't care about what people in the UK, and now outside the EU, think.

    Details in this thread. Note the "about one third/about one half" refers to fish landings by weight, not value. The rEU fish larger proportions of cheaper species out of UK waters.

    https://twitter.com/john_lichfield/status/1337406498398498816
    The entire discussion about what fraction they will give back is quite ridiculous. At the end of the 5.5 years they will have no inherent right to any fish in British waters. Who really cares if that takes a few years to achieve?
    you halfwit , if uk change it after 5 years they can apply tariffs, stupidity abounds.
    I assume you can back up that claim, given you immediately went to calling me a halfwit?

    In reality, those tariff punishments are not connected at all to fishing. The entire fishing quota is negotiated annually after the five and a half years.
    Now you make yourself look even dumber, they negotiate after the 5.5 years when they still have most of their current quota and if EU unhappy they can apply tariffs, what bit of that is not clear to you.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,882
    edited December 2020
    Flanner said:

    Carnyx said:

    Flanner said:

    MattW said:

    A puzzle for anyone who did the crossword.

    https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1342471011875356672

    As an arts graduate, I'd say someone seriously needs top help you add up because you obviously can't add up.

    25% of 50 is 12.5. 50 minus 12.5 is 37.5. Or about a third of 100.

    So what's your problem?

    Probably doing science. I've never met a scientist with the foggiest idea how numbers - or simplification - work

    Probably because I did Greats. You probably don't know what that is, because you're a scientist. But a larger proportion of British Prime Minsters did Greats than any other subject

    That's why Britain has just about the highest incidence pr capita of Nobel prizes in the world
    In fairness the original text is ambiguous and could be read as percentage points - which is actually the usual default option for journos.

    And a fall from a half to a third is 16.66 (recurring) percentage points. The error between your (perfectly correct) option and 33.33 is almost 4.2 percentage points - quite large in relation to the drop. "A fall from half to three-eighths" would be just as clear and more accurate.

    Edit: I speak as a science graduate in biological sciences who ended up using his maths with mecvhanics A level in many ways, from host-parasite population dynamics to structural analysis, in his biological work.
    You're demonstrating brilliantly that you'd never be admitted to do Greats, even if your Greek were as flawless as Demosthenes'. And will NEVER win a Nobel prize.

    Just not numerate enough
    I beg to differ, not least because a third is impossible to represent geometrically anyway, so would not have been a polite part of Greek mathematical discourse, no? Whereas 3/8 is a doddle to represent by [edit] three successive sections of a line in two. And, as any fule kno, ἀγεωμέτρητος μηδεὶς εἰσίτω.

    Dinner calls, I believe, so good night everyone.
  • another brain dead moron pops up

    you halfwit , if uk change it after 5 years they can apply tariffs, stupidity abounds.

    On Baby Jesus Day, it's always heartwarming to see the spirit of the season being embraced :smiley:
    Hope you are having a wonderful Christmas as well. Saw my daughter and grandsons , first for a long time, wonderful given the year we have had.
    However that does not excuse idiots, halfwits and morons posting absolute drivel, Christmas or not.
This discussion has been closed.