Crumbs. @Malmesbury's figures for the Thames Estuary are eye watering. There is some pretty scary doubling going on down there.
Deaths seem to be levelling off?
I was referring to cases per 100k.
I know. But it's curious that deaths are not sky-rocketing at the same rate. However maybe @Malmesbury is right and it's simply the lull before they do.
This morning's data showed the bulk of the increase in cases in younger cohorts. Maybe that explains a possible disconnect between cases and deaths?
Which could mean an extra delayed lag as it works its way up the levels. Or the elderly are shielding themselves like mad. My mother's a doctor and she says that virtually all the positive cases coming through to her surgery at the moment (South West London) are under 55s.
However well-intentioned, I am really not sure I would have named it after Alan Turing.
It's offensive to try to appropriate his name for something like this to score culture war points.
What? lol.
What a strange comment from williamglenn
The ideology behind the decision is to favourise the development among young people of an Anglophobe identity instead of a European identity. Why bring Alan Turing into it? @RobD's alternative of Rhodes would have at least had the right historical resonance.
Go the whole hog.
Henry VIII .
If we want a totally inappropriate English icon, how about Edward I? Founder of England’s (as distinct from Normandy’s/Anjou’s) first proper empire?
Plus a man who carried out an early act of genocide against the Jews.
Edward the Second would be more fun: we used to remember him in the college prayer every week as "our memorable founder".
Blimey, your college had a very strange criteria for memorable. His reign was so forgettable eventually people forgot he was on the throne and Roger Mortimer took over.
About the only memorable thing about him is the alleged method of execution his wife decided to use on him.
Edit - incidentally, I assume that was Oriel? As it’s stretching a point to call him the founder of Trinity.
Memorable is the sort of non-committal adjective I feel I should use in my reports or references.
I'll never beat my old boss who started a reference on a particularly difficult student with "NAME is very tall."
You killed May’s far stronger deal, and voted for Boris Bodged deal. Explain to every remain voter how that happened Keir.
And then apologise for the mess you have made of it.
Rubbish
Which particular bit?
You think Boris deal stronger than Mays?
You think Labour didn’t kill off May’s deal and then vote for Boris?
I’m dealing in facts here.
The fact is the Labour Party have made a mess of their role in this, need to hold their hand up and apologise this evening.
It's a bit pointless comparing this deal with May's as they are two completely different things. May's deal was basically the backstop of a customs union. It wasn't a trade deal and wasn't a permanent Brexit solution.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Boris could have said -hold on this is a big mistake lets remain and she would argue this proves Scotland needs independence
You can also bet that if Scotland were leaving the UK she would not be saying "disrupting the economy"
Strange, your own government (ie the one Wangland voted for) seems to think there will be disruption to the economy.
'The government’s own analysis forecasts that a no-deal Brexit would reduce UK GDP by 7.6% after 15 years, while reaching a free trade agreement (FTA) with the EU would lead to a 4.9% decline.'
He also asked at the same time a relatively sensible question about security arrangements and the impact of being locked out of EU wide databases, which Boris pretty much dodged. So it's not like he simply asked a softball question to pleasure Boris.
“So it's a deal, but it's a thin deal, a deal that we were promised would be better but this deal is better than no deal at all.” - Drakeford
I keep hearing this "thin deal"...this is the new "hard Brexit".
"Thin Deal" because it introduces significant barriers to trade that didn't exist before.
Strictly speaking, Brexit reintroduces those barriers to trade and the deal doesn't remove them. The term, "Free Trade Agreement", is a misnomer because they don't deliver free trade. They are about selectively managing barriers to trade. Preferential Trade Agreement is a more accurate term. The only real free trade areas are the European Union and Cross-Tasman between Australia and New Zealand.
You killed May’s far stronger deal, and voted for Boris Bodged deal. Explain to every remain voter how that happened Keir.
And then apologise for the mess you have made of it.
This might actually be better in some ways that May's deal. Hers was an easy and comfortable deal. This isn't that.
Clearly the detail is unknown and Boris will have sold out on some issues, and more important ones than fish. I think though he's achieved the basic task which was actually just making us independent.
I think historians will reckon that the EU got the better end of the stick, but that was always going to be the case. The stick is though still in play.
Whatever you think of Boris, this is one of his better days.
Nonsense. Boris bodged Brexit is nothing but vandalism. As it was always going to be, built upon the lies and misunderstanding what sovereignty and democracy actually is.
When Boris said in his press conference we have frictionless trade with the EU, he quite simply lied. And it’s not just extra administration and bureaucracy placed on British business (and from there on all of us) he’s lying about - heres the kicker, we have achieved absolutely nothing in return for becoming poorer. Under terms of Boris deal we can’t diverge from the EU ratchet clause and enjoy any freedom without an argument and the EU slapping tariffs on us.
Are we really free of the lunar pull of the EU?
Seriously, does anyone actually believe that this evening.
When Boris told us we were this afternoon, his eyes didn’t sell it at all. He knows. He knows now if he didn’t before. Welcome to the elephant in the room.
However well-intentioned, I am really not sure I would have named it after Alan Turing.
It's offensive to try to appropriate his name for something like this to score culture war points.
What? lol.
What a strange comment from williamglenn
The ideology behind the decision is to favourise the development among young people of an Anglophobe identity instead of a European identity. Why bring Alan Turing into it? @RobD's alternative of Rhodes would have at least had the right historical resonance.
Go the whole hog.
Henry VIII .
If we want a totally inappropriate English icon, how about Edward I? Founder of England’s (as distinct from Normandy’s/Anjou’s) first proper empire?
Plus a man who carried out an early act of genocide against the Jews.
A biography of his I read was entitled 'A Great and Terrible King', which seemed to fit.
Security and policing - Lots on police databases, Eurojust, extradition (within reason) etc. not quite the same as EAW but probably enough
Data and services - not entirely true to say there's nothing. Mutual recognition of professional qualifications is in there. Legal services trade agreed in principle, subject to EU member state limitations which were already extensive of course. It looks like financial services are TBC but both parties have committed to discuss further and codify in an MoU in future - worth noting. Data flows seem pretty liberal cross-border. Public procurement will be different in UK based on WTO but UK and EU will be able to participate mutually, and these new rules will be extended into some big private sector providers too.
Fish - looks like the UK did concede to the EU's final offer on fish of 25% at the end but phased in over 5.5 years.
Migration - future agreement to discuss asylum and border control collaboration.
EU programmes - UK will participate in Horizon, Euratom and Copernicus but not Erasmus - Turing instead. Note, there will be a UK financial contribution here. Not zero. Amount TBC.
Governance - cross retaliation is in there - it says it's limited in scope and we await the details - I presume it's also subject to arbitration to an extent but TBC. Reciprocal mechanism when subsidy causing significant harm with state aid subsidies but both will follow broad principles agreed with the other. Partnership council to govern whole agreement. Review every 5 years. Exit clause of 12 months (new Article 50). Gibraltar is outstanding, and currently excluded.
Thank you for these summaries of the summary. I feel like that's probably a rougher task than my reading of all major manifestoes at GE time. Participation in various EU programmes is good, since it doesn't seem to be a benefit to either side to simply lock the UK out even though not a member of the club, if some participation can be arranged.
Boris could have said -hold on this is a big mistake lets remain and she would argue this proves Scotland needs independence
You can also bet that if Scotland were leaving the UK she would not be saying "disrupting the economy"
Strange, your own government (ie the one Wangland voted for) seems to think there will be disruption to the economy.
'The government’s own analysis forecasts that a no-deal Brexit would reduce UK GDP by 7.6% after 15 years, while reaching a free trade agreement (FTA) with the EU would lead to a 4.9% decline.'
That's not really the point being made though, is it? The point is that the SNP will be arguing that (they will say short term) economic disruption will be a price worth paying for Independence. On a fundamental level, many of the arguments that the SNP make against Brexit are the identical arguments that will be made against them in the Independence debate. The major differences are that the "independent country/sovereignty" arguments are/were weaker for Brexit, but the level of economic integration (and therefore disruption) are likely greater for SIndy.
FBPE Twitter now onto 'This proves Starmer was a Brexiteer all along', everyone's had far too much excitement for one day.
I think Labour may see some slippage to the lib dems but Labour are doing the right thing
Opposing or Abstaining would be a suicide mission in the north of England. Starmer may be dull, but he isn't stupid.
I think you underestimate how unpopular this adventurism might turn out to be and in a very short time period. Think Iraq but worse because this is visceral that was just a n error of judgement. This is a misstep by Starmer and for no good reason. He could and should have abstained. When everything gets blamed on Brexit (mostly correctly) Starmer will be mute.
“So it's a deal, but it's a thin deal, a deal that we were promised would be better but this deal is better than no deal at all.” - Drakeford
I keep hearing this "thin deal"...this is the new "hard Brexit".
"Thin Deal" because it introduces significant barriers to trade that didn't exist before.
Strictly speaking, Brexit reintroduces those barriers to trade and the deal doesn't remove them. The term, "Free Trade Agreement", is a misnomer because they don't deliver free trade. They are about selectively managing barriers to trade. Preferential Trade Agreement is a more accurate term. The only real free trade areas are the European Union and Cross-Tasman between Australia and New Zealand.
The EU is a Zollverein not a free trade area
In terms of the level of free trade a zero tariff area (what you call a free trade area) is less than a customs union/Zollverein, which in turn is less than a single market.
He also asked at the same time a relatively sensible question about security arrangements and the impact of being locked out of EU wide databases, which Boris pretty much dodged. So it's not like he simply asked a softball question to pleasure Boris.
The phrase 'to pleasure Boris' should also not be used before the watershed.
He also asked at the same time a relatively sensible question about security arrangements and the impact of being locked out of EU wide databases, which Boris pretty much dodged. So it's not like he simply asked a softball question to pleasure Boris.
The phrase 'to pleasure Boris' should also not be used before the watershed.
I didn't want to leave it until a few hours to Christmas day, so as not to upset the baby Jesus.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
Ed Davey saying it is clearly possible for the government to request a further extension
I really cannot believe he could come out with such a crass statement at 5.20pm after the deal has been announced by both sides
Yes I agree. The lib dems seem to be in the same position with Ed Davey as they were with Swinson dreamland. The choice is no deal or this deal. He said they will vote against. They need to move on, and at least accept we have left the EU, and propose improvement to the deal or rejoin.
I agree with Davey for reasons I have been making about Labour for a few days.
The deal is not the silver bullet it had been sold at. The deal will make people worse off not better off. People who made this happen will take the blame. Better to call it out for what it is now.
Nobody expects Davey/the LibDems to argue that this is a good deal. Certainly not that it is a better deal than being in the EU, or some closely aligned alternative like EEA/Customs Union.
But the answer to that is to abstain on the grounds that you can't support it but also (given that you don't accept that no deal is a better than this "bad deal") won't obstruct its passage. And will work in future to improve the deal and stand on a platform of closer partnership with the EU. Particularly in areas (eg services) where the agreement is silent.
Voting against it on the grounds that you could have "an extension" is ridiculous. Especially given that it has been a consistent argument that the UK should have no right or expectation of a decent deal given our general presumed weak negotiating position. Why would we get a better deal with an extension now?
The sensible argument for an extension was because of COVID. It's pretty pointless now a deal has been done. That's not to say that he couldn't argue for flexibility as businesses come to terms with what they can and can't do under the new rules, and accept that there will inevitably be treaty breaches as the new arrangements bed in (not least because of the lack of customs preparedness on our side - can't speak for the EU)
As a floating voter I really couldnt care which way parties other than the govt vote on this. They could vote for, against or abstain and it would make literally zero difference to me. It is the govts deal, they are responsible for it, good or bad.
What I do expect from the opposition parties is a constructive set of proposals for 2024 onwards, including our relationship with the EU and other foreign policy, and competent and informed people to communicate them. I didnt get that in 2019.
You killed May’s far stronger deal, and voted for Boris Bodged deal. Explain to every remain voter how that happened Keir.
And then apologise for the mess you have made of it.
This might actually be better in some ways that May's deal. Hers was an easy and comfortable deal. This isn't that.
Clearly the detail is unknown and Boris will have sold out on some issues, and more important ones than fish. I think though he's achieved the basic task which was actually just making us independent.
I think historians will reckon that the EU got the better end of the stick, but that was always going to be the case. The stick is though still in play.
Whatever you think of Boris, this is one of his better days.
Nonsense. Boris bodged Brexit is nothing but vandalism. As it was always going to be, built upon the lies and misunderstanding what sovereignty and democracy actually is.
When Boris said in his press conference we have frictionless trade with the EU, he quite simply lied. And it’s not just extra administration and bureaucracy placed on British business (and from there on all of us) he’s lying about - heres the kicker, we have achieved absolutely nothing in return for becoming poorer. Under terms of Boris deal we can’t diverge from the EU ratchet clause and enjoy any freedom without an argument and the EU slapping tariffs on us.
Are we really free of the lunar pull of the EU?
Seriously, does anyone actually believe that this evening.
When Boris told us we were this afternoon, his eyes didn’t sell it at all. He knows. He knows now if he didn’t before. Welcome to the elephant in the room.
I apologise if you feel my comment is nonsense. I'm not sure that you're not risking joining me in that though.
I think you're right it what you say at the end of your post. Boris has clearly accepted some things that he doesn't like.
Clearly the details aren't really yet known, but it does seem that the UK is now out of the EU orbit. That's a big gain.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Good. It's been astonishing in what I understand to be a litigious country just how free some people have considered themselves to either lie, or make wild claims without any supporting evidence to back them up, claims which are deeply damaging to other people and companies. Free speech sure is vital, but some people have really crossed some lins.
Smartmatic is relatively peripheral to all this - they were only really involved because they had a Venezuela link and it was claimed that Dominion was closely linked to them. They had almost no direct involvement in the election itself.
Dominion is where the real action is at, because they were the ones whose machines were being used all over the place. And the potential damages will be of an order of magnitude greater.
Smartmatic is relatively peripheral to all this - they were only really involved because they had a Venezuela link and it was claimed that Dominion was closely linked to them. They had almost no direct involvement in the election itself.
Dominion is where the real action is at, because they were the ones whose machines were being used all over the place. And the potential damages will be of an order of magnitude greater.
It's been really weird to be on the same side as those making voting machines for once.
Crumbs. @Malmesbury's figures for the Thames Estuary are eye watering. There is some pretty scary doubling going on down there.
Yep. It really is a shitstorm.
When you say that it worries me even more.......
It looks absolutely awful to any lay person who can read off the numbers, let alone hospital doctors.
Oh, and on my latest hobbyhorse...
Schools and universities may need to close, on top of tier 4 restrictions, to bring the new UK coronavirus variant under control, a rapid analysis says.
The work, which is still preliminary, calculates the variant is spreading 56% faster than other forms of the virus.
The researchers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine say whether schools can stay open is the key question for the New Year.
Bit of a shame most of the comments (not all) this evening are throwing brickbats, rather than doing insightful analysis.
I'd be lying if I said I was entirely surprised, but I was hoping for a bit more from this site.
Hard to insightful analysis on something unpublished. Everyone had to trust Bozza. It’s a bit odd on something so important to have so little scrutiny.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
I don't think it would be pedantic or unfair to point out that Chuck originally wrote ''The EU said no, you’re leaving', not 'no, you're leaving unless you pay more'.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
I don't think it would be pedantic or unfair to point out that Chuck originally wrote ''The EU said no, you’re leaving', not 'no, you're leaving unless you pay more'.
Such a sense of persecution, even now.
They may have said that when the UK refused to pay more. Who knows.
Smartmatic is relatively peripheral to all this - they were only really involved because they had a Venezuela link and it was claimed that Dominion was closely linked to them. They had almost no direct involvement in the election itself.
Dominion is where the real action is at, because they were the ones whose machines were being used all over the place. And the potential damages will be of an order of magnitude greater.
It's been really weird to be on the same side as those making voting machines for once.
The really scandalous thing is that people talking about voting machines are still stuck in the horror stories of 2016 mindset. Ancient technology with no paper trails and really no way of knowing what was going on. By all accounts the Dominion technology is up-to-date, modern, advanced, and with paper trails to allow verification of figures. But people are using the complaints of 2016 to beat the Democrats defending the votes now.
What's outrageous is the ES&S (I think) machines still being used in many Republican states. Eg texas. Which are still old and have no paper trails. I believe it is the case that in Texas it is not possible to do a recount of a (close or not close) race at all! Compare with what was possible in Georgia - a full hand recount.
Smartmatic is relatively peripheral to all this - they were only really involved because they had a Venezuela link and it was claimed that Dominion was closely linked to them. They had almost no direct involvement in the election itself.
Dominion is where the real action is at, because they were the ones whose machines were being used all over the place. And the potential damages will be of an order of magnitude greater.
It's been really weird to be on the same side as those making voting machines for once.
US law / 1st amendment means a high bar but Sidney et al might have cleared it
Clear sky so I fetched out our bird watching telescope to look at Jupiter and Saturn. I couldn't make out Saturn's rings but several points of light must have been Jupiter's moon's.
You killed May’s far stronger deal, and voted for Boris Bodged deal. Explain to every remain voter how that happened Keir.
And then apologise for the mess you have made of it.
This might actually be better in some ways that May's deal. Hers was an easy and comfortable deal. This isn't that.
Clearly the detail is unknown and Boris will have sold out on some issues, and more important ones than fish. I think though he's achieved the basic task which was actually just making us independent.
I think historians will reckon that the EU got the better end of the stick, but that was always going to be the case. The stick is though still in play.
Whatever you think of Boris, this is one of his better days.
Nonsense. Boris bodged Brexit is nothing but vandalism. As it was always going to be, built upon the lies and misunderstanding what sovereignty and democracy actually is.
When Boris said in his press conference we have frictionless trade with the EU, he quite simply lied. And it’s not just extra administration and bureaucracy placed on British business (and from there on all of us) he’s lying about - heres the kicker, we have achieved absolutely nothing in return for becoming poorer. Under terms of Boris deal we can’t diverge from the EU ratchet clause and enjoy any freedom without an argument and the EU slapping tariffs on us.
Are we really free of the lunar pull of the EU?
Seriously, does anyone actually believe that this evening.
When Boris told us we were this afternoon, his eyes didn’t sell it at all. He knows. He knows now if he didn’t before. Welcome to the elephant in the room.
I apologise if you feel my comment is nonsense. I'm not sure that you're not risking joining me in that though.
I think you're right it what you say at the end of your post. Boris has clearly accepted some things that he doesn't like.
Clearly the details aren't really yet known, but it does seem that the UK is now out of the EU orbit. That's a big gain.
‘ it does seem that the UK is now out of the EU orbit. ‘.
Crumbs. @Malmesbury's figures for the Thames Estuary are eye watering. There is some pretty scary doubling going on down there.
Yep. It really is a shitstorm.
When you say that it worries me even more.......
It looks absolutely awful to any lay person who can read off the numbers, let alone hospital doctors.
Oh, and on my latest hobbyhorse...
Schools and universities may need to close, on top of tier 4 restrictions, to bring the new UK coronavirus variant under control, a rapid analysis says.
The work, which is still preliminary, calculates the variant is spreading 56% faster than other forms of the virus.
The researchers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine say whether schools can stay open is the key question for the New Year.
I've a bet with ydoethur on the schools point and expect to win.
Logically it is better to go for more extreme restrictions initially and then let up one virus is under control.
Delaying the start of school also gives some breathing space between Christmas mixing.
I'm genuinely torn on this (not on the principle, but on the matter of what the Government will actually do.) The progressive creation and expansion of Tier 4 does begin to suggest that they may finally have learned to act more quickly and decisively - albeit that there's a strong argument for having simply gone straight to a nationwide lockdown - but they have staked a lot reputationally on keeping education going. And they do have lengthy past form on not taking unpalatable but necessary decisions, and then being forced to shift by events once much of the resultant damage has already been done.
The sensible thing under the present, dire, circumstances would be to keep kids home, but they may very well let them all back and then be forced into a U-turn later in January, once pictures of overwhelmed hospitals are broadcast and some of the epidemiologically modellers then start to suggest that the data shows that schoolkids are key drivers of the spread. If events do unfold in that fashion then many more people would end up dying to no useful effect (because, having finally sent children home, they'd have to stay home for longer before the rampaging epidemic calmed down.)
There's also an argument to be had about bringing the 2021 Summer holidays forward into Winter and writing off January and the first half of February completely. That could allow us both to get children out of circulation for an extended period, and to recover much face-to-face tuition later in the year rather than getting by with remote learning during that time.
Crumbs. @Malmesbury's figures for the Thames Estuary are eye watering. There is some pretty scary doubling going on down there.
Yep. It really is a shitstorm.
When you say that it worries me even more.......
It looks absolutely awful to any lay person who can read off the numbers, let alone hospital doctors.
Oh, and on my latest hobbyhorse...
Schools and universities may need to close, on top of tier 4 restrictions, to bring the new UK coronavirus variant under control, a rapid analysis says.
The work, which is still preliminary, calculates the variant is spreading 56% faster than other forms of the virus.
The researchers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine say whether schools can stay open is the key question for the New Year.
I've a bet with ydoethur on the schools point and expect to win.
Logically it is better to go for more extreme restrictions initially and then let up one virus is under control.
Delaying the start of school also gives some breathing space between Christmas mixing.
I’m still expecting you to lose. At the latest briefing, an exceptionally thick civil servant is reported to have said ‘but the systems we had worked.’
He also asked at the same time a relatively sensible question about security arrangements and the impact of being locked out of EU wide databases, which Boris pretty much dodged. So it's not like he simply asked a softball question to pleasure Boris.
Well he's an idiot. If you ask a double question then the easy bit gets answered and the other one doesn't.
However well-intentioned, I am really not sure I would have named it after Alan Turing.
It's offensive to try to appropriate his name for something like this to score culture war points.
What? lol.
What a strange comment from williamglenn
The ideology behind the decision is to favourise the development among young people of an Anglophobe identity instead of a European identity. Why bring Alan Turing into it? @RobD's alternative of Rhodes would have at least had the right historical resonance.
Go the whole hog.
Henry VIII .
If we want a totally inappropriate English icon, how about Edward I? Founder of England’s (as distinct from Normandy’s/Anjou’s) first proper empire?
Plus a man who carried out an early act of genocide against the Jews.
Edward the Second would be more fun: we used to remember him in the college prayer every week as "our memorable founder".
Blimey, your college had a very strange criteria for memorable. His reign was so forgettable eventually people forgot he was on the throne and Roger Mortimer took over.
About the only memorable thing about him is the alleged method of execution his wife decided to use on him.
Edit - incidentally, I assume that was Oriel? As it’s stretching a point to call him the founder of Trinity.
Apparently the execution method wasn't that unusual, a medieval method for an unexplained death. You introduce the poker through a funnel to avoid obviously burning the ring. An alternative was hot lead in the ear.
Ed Davey saying it is clearly possible for the government to request a further extension
I really cannot believe he could come out with such a crass statement at 5.20pm after the deal has been announced by both sides
Yes I agree. The lib dems seem to be in the same position with Ed Davey as they were with Swinson dreamland. The choice is no deal or this deal. He said they will vote against. They need to move on, and at least accept we have left the EU, and propose improvement to the deal or rejoin.
I agree with Davey for reasons I have been making about Labour for a few days.
The deal is not the silver bullet it had been sold at. The deal will make people worse off not better off. People who made this happen will take the blame. Better to call it out for what it is now.
Yes but a no deal would be terrible and make people even worse off. Davey and yourself are not facing the choice as it stands no deal or this deal
No. The government has a majority of 80. The deal is done and will pass. The choice is vote for the deal and it becomes law or don't vote for the deal and it becomes law.
Crumbs. @Malmesbury's figures for the Thames Estuary are eye watering. There is some pretty scary doubling going on down there.
Yep. It really is a shitstorm.
When you say that it worries me even more.......
It looks absolutely awful to any lay person who can read off the numbers, let alone hospital doctors.
Oh, and on my latest hobbyhorse...
Schools and universities may need to close, on top of tier 4 restrictions, to bring the new UK coronavirus variant under control, a rapid analysis says.
The work, which is still preliminary, calculates the variant is spreading 56% faster than other forms of the virus.
The researchers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine say whether schools can stay open is the key question for the New Year.
I've a bet with ydoethur on the schools point and expect to win.
Logically it is better to go for more extreme restrictions initially and then let up one virus is under control.
Delaying the start of school also gives some breathing space between Christmas mixing.
I'm genuinely torn on this (not on the principle, but on the matter of what the Government will actually do.) The progressive creation and expansion of Tier 4 does begin to suggest that they may finally have learned to act more quickly and decisively - albeit that there's a strong argument for having simply gone straight to a nationwide lockdown - but they have staked a lot reputationally on keeping education going. And they do have lengthy past form on not taking unpalatable but necessary decisions, and then being forced to shift by events once much of the resultant damage has already been done.
The sensible thing under the present, dire, circumstances would be to keep kids home, but they may very well let them all back and then be forced into a U-turn later in January, once pictures of overwhelmed hospitals are broadcast and some of the epidemiologically modellers then start to suggest that the data shows that schoolkids are key drivers of the spread. If events do unfold in that fashion then many more people would end up dying to no useful effect (because, having finally sent children home, they'd have to stay home for longer before the rampaging epidemic calmed down.)
There's also an argument to be had about bringing the 2021 Summer holidays forward into Winter and writing off January and the first half of February completely. That could allow us both to get children out of circulation for an extended period, and to recover much face-to-face tuition later in the year rather than getting by with remote learning during that time.
On your last paragraph, did you see my reply on the earlier thread?
You killed May’s far stronger deal, and voted for Boris Bodged deal. Explain to every remain voter how that happened Keir.
And then apologise for the mess you have made of it.
I accept it if you think that not leaving in the first place would be better than what Johnson has come up with. Fair enough.
But May's "far stronger deal"? Oh come on. All May did was to come up with a Withdrawal Agreement which was "stronger" only insofar as it was so awful as to unite most Remainers and Leavers in the belief that with such "vassal state" status we would have been better staying in the EU all along. It really would have led to the worst of all worlds.
Imagine if May had somehow managed to get her agreement beyond the parliamentary block, or Johnson had not replaced the NI back stop with Irish Sea customs checks (which ironically may well turn out to be to NI's advantage.) There wouldn't have any negotiations worthy of the name on a full trade agreement, because the UK would have been acting as the role of supplicant while accepting every clause the EU put forward, such was the potential bind of the backstop. We wouldn't tonight be having any debate about who had compromised most in the trade negotiations.
However well-intentioned, I am really not sure I would have named it after Alan Turing.
It's offensive to try to appropriate his name for something like this to score culture war points.
What? lol.
What a strange comment from williamglenn
The ideology behind the decision is to favourise the development among young people of an Anglophobe identity instead of a European identity. Why bring Alan Turing into it? @RobD's alternative of Rhodes would have at least had the right historical resonance.
Go the whole hog.
Henry VIII .
If we want a totally inappropriate English icon, how about Edward I? Founder of England’s (as distinct from Normandy’s/Anjou’s) first proper empire?
Plus a man who carried out an early act of genocide against the Jews.
Edward the Second would be more fun: we used to remember him in the college prayer every week as "our memorable founder".
Blimey, your college had a very strange criteria for memorable. His reign was so forgettable eventually people forgot he was on the throne and Roger Mortimer took over.
About the only memorable thing about him is the alleged method of execution his wife decided to use on him.
Edit - incidentally, I assume that was Oriel? As it’s stretching a point to call him the founder of Trinity.
Apparently the execution method wasn't that unusual, a medieval method for an unexplained death. You introduce the poker through a funnel to avoid obviously burning the ring. An alternative was hot lead in the ear.
Everyone who had the misfortune to do Hamlet for English A-level knows that one, of course, or a version of it.
Crumbs. @Malmesbury's figures for the Thames Estuary are eye watering. There is some pretty scary doubling going on down there.
Yep. It really is a shitstorm.
When you say that it worries me even more.......
It looks absolutely awful to any lay person who can read off the numbers, let alone hospital doctors.
Oh, and on my latest hobbyhorse...
Schools and universities may need to close, on top of tier 4 restrictions, to bring the new UK coronavirus variant under control, a rapid analysis says.
The work, which is still preliminary, calculates the variant is spreading 56% faster than other forms of the virus.
The researchers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine say whether schools can stay open is the key question for the New Year.
I've a bet with ydoethur on the schools point and expect to win.
Logically it is better to go for more extreme restrictions initially and then let up one virus is under control.
Delaying the start of school also gives some breathing space between Christmas mixing.
I'm genuinely torn on this (not on the principle, but on the matter of what the Government will actually do.) The progressive creation and expansion of Tier 4 does begin to suggest that they may finally have learned to act more quickly and decisively - albeit that there's a strong argument for having simply gone straight to a nationwide lockdown - but they have staked a lot reputationally on keeping education going. And they do have lengthy past form on not taking unpalatable but necessary decisions, and then being forced to shift by events once much of the resultant damage has already been done.
The sensible thing under the present, dire, circumstances would be to keep kids home, but they may very well let them all back and then be forced into a U-turn later in January, once pictures of overwhelmed hospitals are broadcast and some of the epidemiologically modellers then start to suggest that the data shows that schoolkids are key drivers of the spread. If events do unfold in that fashion then many more people would end up dying to no useful effect (because, having finally sent children home, they'd have to stay home for longer before the rampaging epidemic calmed down.)
There's also an argument to be had about bringing the 2021 Summer holidays forward into Winter and writing off January and the first half of February completely. That could allow us both to get children out of circulation for an extended period, and to recover much face-to-face tuition later in the year rather than getting by with remote learning during that time.
In secondary schools we are not expecting any pupils in except Y13 and Y11 for the first week (this may just be Tier 4). As Y11 are doing mocks that means only Y13 will get taught in classrooms.
It's a bit moot for me as I have to shield again and will be working from home myself until we are out of Tier 4 or I get vaccinated.
He also asked at the same time a relatively sensible question about security arrangements and the impact of being locked out of EU wide databases, which Boris pretty much dodged. So it's not like he simply asked a softball question to pleasure Boris.
Well he's an idiot. If you ask a double question then the easy bit gets answered and the other one doesn't.
I cannot imagine Boris would have answered it either way - he gave it more of an answer than he did the question about celebrating in fact, it just was waffle.
He also asked at the same time a relatively sensible question about security arrangements and the impact of being locked out of EU wide databases, which Boris pretty much dodged. So it's not like he simply asked a softball question to pleasure Boris.
Well he's an idiot. If you ask a double question then the easy bit gets answered and the other one doesn't.
Yes. The art of asking one tough question, rather than one tough, one easy and one downright stupid, and then inviting the PM to choose which one he answers, seems to have disappeared.
However well-intentioned, I am really not sure I would have named it after Alan Turing.
It's offensive to try to appropriate his name for something like this to score culture war points.
What? lol.
What a strange comment from williamglenn
The ideology behind the decision is to favourise the development among young people of an Anglophobe identity instead of a European identity. Why bring Alan Turing into it? @RobD's alternative of Rhodes would have at least had the right historical resonance.
Go the whole hog.
Henry VIII .
If we want a totally inappropriate English icon, how about Edward I? Founder of England’s (as distinct from Normandy’s/Anjou’s) first proper empire?
Plus a man who carried out an early act of genocide against the Jews.
Edward the Second would be more fun: we used to remember him in the college prayer every week as "our memorable founder".
Blimey, your college had a very strange criteria for memorable. His reign was so forgettable eventually people forgot he was on the throne and Roger Mortimer took over.
About the only memorable thing about him is the alleged method of execution his wife decided to use on him.
Edit - incidentally, I assume that was Oriel? As it’s stretching a point to call him the founder of Trinity.
Apparently the execution method wasn't that unusual, a medieval method for an unexplained death. You introduce the poker through a funnel to avoid obviously burning the ring. An alternative was hot lead in the ear.
I'm sure there was a Scandi-noir story where a king was killed by his brother pouring poison in his ear. He would have got away with it too, if it hadn't been for the meddling ghost.
Clear sky so I fetched out our bird watching telescope to look at Jupiter and Saturn. I couldn't make out Saturn's rings but several points of light must have been Jupiter's moon's.
Rest assured, that bloody apostrophe was nowt to do with me!
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Clear sky so I fetched out our bird watching telescope to look at Jupiter and Saturn. I couldn't make out Saturn's rings but several points of light must have been Jupiter's moon's.
Rest assured, that bloody apostrophe was nowt to do with me!
He also asked at the same time a relatively sensible question about security arrangements and the impact of being locked out of EU wide databases, which Boris pretty much dodged. So it's not like he simply asked a softball question to pleasure Boris.
Well he's an idiot. If you ask a double question then the easy bit gets answered and the other one doesn't.
I cannot imagine Boris would have answered it either way - he gave it more of an answer than he did the question about celebrating in fact, it just was waffle.
He answered the celebration question first. Gave him a chance to think of some waffle. Go straight in with the hard one would have been a better strategy.
(I'm going to celebrate my first hour of freedom since I was 7 (and "screw you, 2020") with an EU beer as it happens. But it's a 2013 De Molen Tsarina Esra)
Crumbs. @Malmesbury's figures for the Thames Estuary are eye watering. There is some pretty scary doubling going on down there.
Yep. It really is a shitstorm.
When you say that it worries me even more.......
It looks absolutely awful to any lay person who can read off the numbers, let alone hospital doctors.
Oh, and on my latest hobbyhorse...
Schools and universities may need to close, on top of tier 4 restrictions, to bring the new UK coronavirus variant under control, a rapid analysis says.
The work, which is still preliminary, calculates the variant is spreading 56% faster than other forms of the virus.
The researchers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine say whether schools can stay open is the key question for the New Year.
I've a bet with ydoethur on the schools point and expect to win.
Logically it is better to go for more extreme restrictions initially and then let up one virus is under control.
Delaying the start of school also gives some breathing space between Christmas mixing.
I'm genuinely torn on this (not on the principle, but on the matter of what the Government will actually do.) The progressive creation and expansion of Tier 4 does begin to suggest that they may finally have learned to act more quickly and decisively - albeit that there's a strong argument for having simply gone straight to a nationwide lockdown - but they have staked a lot reputationally on keeping education going. And they do have lengthy past form on not taking unpalatable but necessary decisions, and then being forced to shift by events once much of the resultant damage has already been done.
The sensible thing under the present, dire, circumstances would be to keep kids home, but they may very well let them all back and then be forced into a U-turn later in January, once pictures of overwhelmed hospitals are broadcast and some of the epidemiologically modellers then start to suggest that the data shows that schoolkids are key drivers of the spread. If events do unfold in that fashion then many more people would end up dying to no useful effect (because, having finally sent children home, they'd have to stay home for longer before the rampaging epidemic calmed down.)
There's also an argument to be had about bringing the 2021 Summer holidays forward into Winter and writing off January and the first half of February completely. That could allow us both to get children out of circulation for an extended period, and to recover much face-to-face tuition later in the year rather than getting by with remote learning during that time.
In secondary schools we are not expecting any pupils in except Y13 and Y11 for the first week (this may just be Tier 4). As Y11 are doing mocks that means only Y13 will get taught in classrooms.
It's a bit moot for me as I have to shield again and will be working from home myself until we are out of Tier 4 or I get vaccinated.
No, that’s country wide.
It was originally done because the government wanted us to set up these mass tests. But now they have admitted that most schools will need 24 staff rather than three volunteers, that idea is about to be shelved. As almost every school has said they can’t do them anyway, it’s a minor point now.
He also asked at the same time a relatively sensible question about security arrangements and the impact of being locked out of EU wide databases, which Boris pretty much dodged. So it's not like he simply asked a softball question to pleasure Boris.
Well he's an idiot. If you ask a double question then the easy bit gets answered and the other one doesn't.
Yes. The art of asking one tough question, rather than one tough, one easy and one downright stupid, and then inviting the PM to choose which one he answers, seems to have disappeared.
Frankly, the other problem these days is that the press don't work as a team. They all want to get their own question on their own TV bulletin, complete with mandatory video of them asking it. Indeed this often leads to them all asking the same question.
As opposed to comparing notes beforehand to maximise serious question asked and/or having one journalist follow up on another.
Clear sky so I fetched out our bird watching telescope to look at Jupiter and Saturn. I couldn't make out Saturn's rings but several points of light must have been Jupiter's moon's.
Rest assured, that bloody apostrophe was nowt to do with me!
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
I think it's way too early to come to that conclusion.
Clear sky so I fetched out our bird watching telescope to look at Jupiter and Saturn. I couldn't make out Saturn's rings but several points of light must have been Jupiter's moon's.
I managed to see the moons with 8x30 binos this summer. The rings need much more firepower.
Crumbs. @Malmesbury's figures for the Thames Estuary are eye watering. There is some pretty scary doubling going on down there.
Yep. It really is a shitstorm.
When you say that it worries me even more.......
It looks absolutely awful to any lay person who can read off the numbers, let alone hospital doctors.
Oh, and on my latest hobbyhorse...
Schools and universities may need to close, on top of tier 4 restrictions, to bring the new UK coronavirus variant under control, a rapid analysis says.
The work, which is still preliminary, calculates the variant is spreading 56% faster than other forms of the virus.
The researchers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine say whether schools can stay open is the key question for the New Year.
I've a bet with ydoethur on the schools point and expect to win.
Logically it is better to go for more extreme restrictions initially and then let up one virus is under control.
Delaying the start of school also gives some breathing space between Christmas mixing.
I'm genuinely torn on this (not on the principle, but on the matter of what the Government will actually do.) The progressive creation and expansion of Tier 4 does begin to suggest that they may finally have learned to act more quickly and decisively - albeit that there's a strong argument for having simply gone straight to a nationwide lockdown - but they have staked a lot reputationally on keeping education going. And they do have lengthy past form on not taking unpalatable but necessary decisions, and then being forced to shift by events once much of the resultant damage has already been done.
The sensible thing under the present, dire, circumstances would be to keep kids home, but they may very well let them all back and then be forced into a U-turn later in January, once pictures of overwhelmed hospitals are broadcast and some of the epidemiologically modellers then start to suggest that the data shows that schoolkids are key drivers of the spread. If events do unfold in that fashion then many more people would end up dying to no useful effect (because, having finally sent children home, they'd have to stay home for longer before the rampaging epidemic calmed down.)
There's also an argument to be had about bringing the 2021 Summer holidays forward into Winter and writing off January and the first half of February completely. That could allow us both to get children out of circulation for an extended period, and to recover much face-to-face tuition later in the year rather than getting by with remote learning during that time.
Yes, I broadly agree. I am hopeful that the effect of a school closure for slightly longer than 2 weeks should with other measures start to have some effect on the case numbers (once we get beyond the effects of Christmas Day mixing and all the interactions in shops of recent days that preceded it). With luck, by the New Year case numbers might look like they have peaked in the higher tier areas. But if in that rosy scenario case numbers have ceased going up, the odds are very short that that will be taken as an excuse by the Governmnet to carry on and let the kids and uni students go back as planned.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
I would be surprised if any go to Ireland given the mess their HE system is in. Canada however - the likes of Carleton and British Columbia in particular - must be rubbing their hands with glee.
He also asked at the same time a relatively sensible question about security arrangements and the impact of being locked out of EU wide databases, which Boris pretty much dodged. So it's not like he simply asked a softball question to pleasure Boris.
Well he's an idiot. If you ask a double question then the easy bit gets answered and the other one doesn't.
I cannot imagine Boris would have answered it either way - he gave it more of an answer than he did the question about celebrating in fact, it just was waffle.
He answered the celebration question first. Gave him a chance to think of some waffle. Go straight in with the hard one would have been a better strategy.
(I'm going to celebrate my first hour of freedom since I was 7 (and "screw you, 2020") with an EU beer as it happens. But it's a 2013 De Molen Tsarina Esra)
He barely addressed it, and I think nearly all of the reporters asked two questions, it just seems to be what they do, and I also think it pretty unlikely that Boris of all people could not have produced some waffle even if there had been only that one question.
I'm not defending him as a journalist, but unlike some of the others, like Peston, he did in fact ask a somewhat reasonable question, so it seems unfair to imply he was up there prostrating himself before Boris with his question.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
She's certainly right - given Brexiter promises of SM and so on.
Will she say the same thing if following a ‘Yes’ vote Scotland leaves the UK market, currency area and customs area and simultaneously fails to join the EU?
She's certainly right - given Brexiter promises of SM and so on.
Will she say the same thing if following a ‘Yes’ vote Scotland leaves the UK market, currency area and customs area and simultaneously fails to join the EU?
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
How many of the world's top universities are in Erasmus?
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
There's a lot of lessons and concepts that might be drawn from Brexit, but that would certainly be one of the most bizarre.
She's certainly right - given Brexiter promises of SM and so on.
Will she say the same thing if following a ‘Yes’ vote Scotland leaves the UK market, currency area and customs area and simultaneously fails to join the EU?
Or will she spin it as the greatest success ever?
English whisky drinkers will sort it.
Are you suggesting that the result will be a blending?
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Bit of a shame most of the comments (not all) this evening are throwing brickbats, rather than doing insightful analysis.
I'd be lying if I said I was entirely surprised, but I was hoping for a bit more from this site.
Hard to insightful analysis on something unpublished. Everyone had to trust Bozza. It’s a bit odd on something so important to have so little scrutiny.
True, the full text isn't published yet but we are getting useful insights and snippets.
Either way I'm not sure the clueless, moron, and idiot comments are particularly warranted or constructive in any event.
The hardest cohorts first with the trickiest vaccine.
Impressive. I'm not sure I quite trust this Government with stats and numbers but, for this, I will hope there's integrity and independent rigour behind them.
So, I've now read the TCA summary by HMG. It's worth noting this is a more political document, designed to summarise and sell the Deal here, but it's still worth a read. Key takeaway for me is that both sides have put down markers to build on it in the medium-term. So it's not necessarily quite as "thin" as it will end up becoming:
Goods and agriculture - comprehensive. Zeros tariffs or quotas on goods meeting "rules of origin" standards, which both sides have agreed to keep as unbureaucratic as possible. It includes manufactured goods, agriculture, wine, organics, chemicals, plants, animals etc. Crucially, for the car industry, both the EU and UK have agreed that each others inputs will count "vice-versa" cumulatively towards rules of origin - which should preserve some pan-European supply chains. The main costs now will be ROO compliance checks and customs checks. But both the EU and UK have agreed a 'trusted trader' scheme that should mean only 1-2% spot checks and bureaucracy minimised. This will be particularly focused on Dover and Holyhead to assist roll-on and roll-off. They've also agree to share import and export data in the longer-term (sounds like a bit like some of Theresa's customs 'arrangement' to me) to make that even easier. Lorries can go to/from UK and EU and make further subsequent movements, with limitations.
Aviation and Energy - Aviation is closely knit. Aviation basics are all there on airline operation and more to come in future on maintenance provision, personnel exchange and air traffic cooperation. Energy, electricity/gas/ and renewable interconnectors and cooperation on renewables and climate change as you'd expect.
Business/short-term visitors - EHIC healthcare scheme continues. Short-term visitors for 90 days and temp entry/stay is facilitated. I'd imagine if this has been agreed then we'll also be able to use the EEA/Switzerland passport routes too - TBC.
Thanks for these.
Continuation of EHIC is a biggie for perception. Not sure where that leaves it on reciprocal care of condtions for UK peeps retired to EU?
I'll be interested to see how Erasmus changes since a plurality and I think a majority of the top EU universities on international measures have just left with the UK.
I can't quite believe the twitter outrage about Erasmus. It's almost as if they decided to find an issue that the red wall types couldn't give a monkeys about, and set the metropolitan elite banging on about something other than fish.
Clear sky so I fetched out our bird watching telescope to look at Jupiter and Saturn. I couldn't make out Saturn's rings but several points of light must have been Jupiter's moon's.
Rest assured, that bloody apostrophe was nowt to do with me!
Were all Brexiter's now.
Could you have written a grocer sentence?
Maybe he meant 'Where are all the Brexiteers now?'
So, I've now read the TCA summary by HMG. It's worth noting this is a more political document, designed to summarise and sell the Deal here, but it's still worth a read. Key takeaway for me is that both sides have put down markers to build on it in the medium-term. So it's not necessarily quite as "thin" as it will end up becoming:
Goods and agriculture - comprehensive. Zeros tariffs or quotas on goods meeting "rules of origin" standards, which both sides have agreed to keep as unbureaucratic as possible. It includes manufactured goods, agriculture, wine, organics, chemicals, plants, animals etc. Crucially, for the car industry, both the EU and UK have agreed that each others inputs will count "vice-versa" cumulatively towards rules of origin - which should preserve some pan-European supply chains. The main costs now will be ROO compliance checks and customs checks. But both the EU and UK have agreed a 'trusted trader' scheme that should mean only 1-2% spot checks and bureaucracy minimised. This will be particularly focused on Dover and Holyhead to assist roll-on and roll-off. They've also agree to share import and export data in the longer-term (sounds like a bit like some of Theresa's customs 'arrangement' to me) to make that even easier. Lorries can go to/from UK and EU and make further subsequent movements, with limitations.
Aviation and Energy - Aviation is closely knit. Aviation basics are all there on airline operation and more to come in future on maintenance provision, personnel exchange and air traffic cooperation. Energy, electricity/gas/ and renewable interconnectors and cooperation on renewables and climate change as you'd expect.
Business/short-term visitors - EHIC healthcare scheme continues. Short-term visitors for 90 days and temp entry/stay is facilitated. I'd imagine if this has been agreed then we'll also be able to use the EEA/Switzerland passport routes too - TBC.
Thanks for these.
Continuation of EHIC is a biggie for perception. Not sure where that leaves it on reciprocal care of condtions for UK peeps retired to EU?
I'll be interested to see how Erasmus changes since a plurality and I think a majority of the top EU universities on international measures have just left with the UK.
Under the EU there was no reciprocal care for people retired to the EU unless they were drawing a state pension. The younger retired should always have paid into the local scheme.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Why would they go to North America, who are not in Erasmus either? We also have the Turing scheme that does the same thing as Erasmus.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
How many of the world's top universities are in Erasmus?
The problem with the US is simply that tuition costs are... not inexpensive... at the places on that list, you're paying close to $60,000 a year for tuition alone. And if you are in halls, then that's an additional $15,000 per year.
By comparison, the Sorbonne is €6,500/year for tuition.
So, I suspect that not many Brits will be heading to the US, except those that are already Fulbright scholars or equivalents.
However well-intentioned, I am really not sure I would have named it after Alan Turing.
It's offensive to try to appropriate his name for something like this to score culture war points.
What? lol.
What a strange comment from williamglenn
The ideology behind the decision is to favourise the development among young people of an Anglophobe identity instead of a European identity. Why bring Alan Turing into it? @RobD's alternative of Rhodes would have at least had the right historical resonance.
Go the whole hog.
Henry VIII .
If we want a totally inappropriate English icon, how about Edward I? Founder of England’s (as distinct from Normandy’s/Anjou’s) first proper empire?
Plus a man who carried out an early act of genocide against the Jews.
Edward the Second would be more fun: we used to remember him in the college prayer every week as "our memorable founder".
Blimey, your college had a very strange criteria for memorable. His reign was so forgettable eventually people forgot he was on the throne and Roger Mortimer took over.
About the only memorable thing about him is the alleged method of execution his wife decided to use on him.
Edit - incidentally, I assume that was Oriel? As it’s stretching a point to call him the founder of Trinity.
Apparently the execution method wasn't that unusual, a medieval method for an unexplained death. You introduce the poker through a funnel to avoid obviously burning the ring. An alternative was hot lead in the ear.
Everyone who had the misfortune to do Hamlet for English A-level knows that one, of course, or a version of it.
So the "2B or not 2B" question is really all about the best type of lead to use?
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Clear sky so I fetched out our bird watching telescope to look at Jupiter and Saturn. I couldn't make out Saturn's rings but several points of light must have been Jupiter's moon's.
I managed to see the moons with 8x30 binos this summer. The rings need much more firepower.
So, I've now read the TCA summary by HMG. It's worth noting this is a more political document, designed to summarise and sell the Deal here, but it's still worth a read. Key takeaway for me is that both sides have put down markers to build on it in the medium-term. So it's not necessarily quite as "thin" as it will end up becoming:
Goods and agriculture - comprehensive. Zeros tariffs or quotas on goods meeting "rules of origin" standards, which both sides have agreed to keep as unbureaucratic as possible. It includes manufactured goods, agriculture, wine, organics, chemicals, plants, animals etc. Crucially, for the car industry, both the EU and UK have agreed that each others inputs will count "vice-versa" cumulatively towards rules of origin - which should preserve some pan-European supply chains. The main costs now will be ROO compliance checks and customs checks. But both the EU and UK have agreed a 'trusted trader' scheme that should mean only 1-2% spot checks and bureaucracy minimised. This will be particularly focused on Dover and Holyhead to assist roll-on and roll-off. They've also agree to share import and export data in the longer-term (sounds like a bit like some of Theresa's customs 'arrangement' to me) to make that even easier. Lorries can go to/from UK and EU and make further subsequent movements, with limitations.
Aviation and Energy - Aviation is closely knit. Aviation basics are all there on airline operation and more to come in future on maintenance provision, personnel exchange and air traffic cooperation. Energy, electricity/gas/ and renewable interconnectors and cooperation on renewables and climate change as you'd expect.
Business/short-term visitors - EHIC healthcare scheme continues. Short-term visitors for 90 days and temp entry/stay is facilitated. I'd imagine if this has been agreed then we'll also be able to use the EEA/Switzerland passport routes too - TBC.
Thanks for these.
Continuation of EHIC is a biggie for perception. Not sure where that leaves it on reciprocal care of condtions for UK peeps retired to EU?
I'll be interested to see how Erasmus changes since a plurality and I think a majority of the top EU universities on international measures have just left with the UK.
Under the EU there was no reciprocal care for people retired to the EU unless they were drawing a state pension. The younger retired should always have paid into the local scheme.
That's the point.
There were people receiving State Pension concerned about reciprocal care going with Brexit.
I can't quite believe the twitter outrage about Erasmus. It's almost as if they decided to find an issue that the red wall types couldn't give a monkeys about, and set the metropolitan elite banging on about something other than fish.
Erasmus is a great scheme - which they are replacing. Done, move on and point to all the actual things we have lost instead.
Comments
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1342176983564750848
I'd be lying if I said I was entirely surprised, but I was hoping for a bit more from this site.
When Boris said in his press conference we have frictionless trade with the EU, he quite simply lied. And it’s not just extra administration and bureaucracy placed on British business (and from there on all of us) he’s lying about - heres the kicker, we have achieved absolutely nothing in return for becoming poorer. Under terms of Boris deal we can’t diverge from the EU ratchet clause and enjoy any freedom without an argument and the EU slapping tariffs on us.
Are we really free of the lunar pull of the EU?
Seriously, does anyone actually believe that this evening.
When Boris told us we were this afternoon, his eyes didn’t sell it at all. He knows. He knows now if he didn’t before. Welcome to the elephant in the room.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgtghHq5C8M
https://twitter.com/Torcuil/status/1342155314246922243?s=20
What I do expect from the opposition parties is a constructive set of proposals for 2024 onwards, including our relationship with the EU and other foreign policy, and competent and informed people to communicate them. I didnt get that in 2019.
I think you're right it what you say at the end of your post. Boris has clearly accepted some things that he doesn't like.
Clearly the details aren't really yet known, but it does seem that the UK is now out of the EU orbit. That's a big gain.
Dominion is where the real action is at, because they were the ones whose machines were being used all over the place. And the potential damages will be of an order of magnitude greater.
Logically it is better to go for more extreme restrictions initially and then let up one virus is under control.
Delaying the start of school also gives some breathing space between Christmas mixing.
Either way, Happy Holidays!
Such a sense of persecution, even now.
What's outrageous is the ES&S (I think) machines still being used in many Republican states. Eg texas. Which are still old and have no paper trails. I believe it is the case that in Texas it is not possible to do a recount of a (close or not close) race at all! Compare with what was possible in Georgia - a full hand recount.
You sure?
The sensible thing under the present, dire, circumstances would be to keep kids home, but they may very well let them all back and then be forced into a U-turn later in January, once pictures of overwhelmed hospitals are broadcast and some of the epidemiologically modellers then start to suggest that the data shows that schoolkids are key drivers of the spread. If events do unfold in that fashion then many more people would end up dying to no useful effect (because, having finally sent children home, they'd have to stay home for longer before the rampaging epidemic calmed down.)
There's also an argument to be had about bringing the 2021 Summer holidays forward into Winter and writing off January and the first half of February completely. That could allow us both to get children out of circulation for an extended period, and to recover much face-to-face tuition later in the year rather than getting by with remote learning during that time.
Good news for the site either way, of course.
But May's "far stronger deal"? Oh come on. All May did was to come up with a Withdrawal Agreement which was "stronger" only insofar as it was so awful as to unite most Remainers and Leavers in the belief that with such "vassal state" status we would have been better staying in the EU all along. It really would have led to the worst of all worlds.
Imagine if May had somehow managed to get her agreement beyond the parliamentary block, or Johnson had not replaced the NI back stop with Irish Sea customs checks (which ironically may well turn out to be to NI's advantage.) There wouldn't have any negotiations worthy of the name on a full trade agreement, because the UK would have been acting as the role of supplicant while accepting every clause the EU put forward, such was the potential bind of the backstop. We wouldn't tonight be having any debate about who had compromised most in the trade negotiations.
It's a bit moot for me as I have to shield again and will be working from home myself until we are out of Tier 4 or I get vaccinated.
"Johnson gets the deal both sides wanted to achieve"
Stick incoming on Twitter in 3 ... 2...1..
(I'm going to celebrate my first hour of freedom since I was 7 (and "screw you, 2020") with an EU beer as it happens. But it's a 2013 De Molen Tsarina Esra)
It was originally done because the government wanted us to set up these mass tests. But now they have admitted that most schools will need 24 staff rather than three volunteers, that idea is about to be shelved. As almost every school has said they can’t do them anyway, it’s a minor point now.
As opposed to comparing notes beforehand to maximise serious question asked and/or having one journalist follow up on another.
To confirm you are actually seeing the moons you can check their current position here: https://skyandtelescope.org/observing/jupiters-moons-javascript-utility/#
I'm not defending him as a journalist, but unlike some of the others, like Peston, he did in fact ask a somewhat reasonable question, so it seems unfair to imply he was up there prostrating himself before Boris with his question.
Leaving the UK's customs union, single market, currency union with fiscal transfers good.
Have I got that right?
Or will she spin it as the greatest success ever?
You sure it's the UK's loss, not the EU's?
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2020/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/-1/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats
https://www.erasmusplus.org.uk/participating-countries
Either way I'm not sure the clueless, moron, and idiot comments are particularly warranted or constructive in any event.
Continuation of EHIC is a biggie for perception. Not sure where that leaves it on reciprocal care of condtions for UK peeps retired to EU?
I'll be interested to see how Erasmus changes since a plurality and I think a majority of the top EU universities on international measures have just left with the UK.
By comparison, the Sorbonne is €6,500/year for tuition.
So, I suspect that not many Brits will be heading to the US, except those that are already Fulbright scholars or equivalents.
There were people receiving State Pension concerned about reciprocal care going with Brexit.
Has it gone with this Deal, or is it still there?