Clear sky so I fetched out our bird watching telescope to look at Jupiter and Saturn. I couldn't make out Saturn's rings but several points of light must have been Jupiter's moon's.
I managed to see the moons with 8x30 binos this summer. The rings need much more firepower.
Saturn's rings were easily visible in a pretty rubbish 25x terrestrial scope on Sunday. 20x and something half decent should easily be enough. The planet only looks mis-shapen in 10x binoculars (or a 300mm SLR lens, which I also tried).
So, I've now read the TCA summary by HMG. It's worth noting this is a more political document, designed to summarise and sell the Deal here, but it's still worth a read. Key takeaway for me is that both sides have put down markers to build on it in the medium-term. So it's not necessarily quite as "thin" as it will end up becoming:
Goods and agriculture - comprehensive. Zeros tariffs or quotas on goods meeting "rules of origin" standards, which both sides have agreed to keep as unbureaucratic as possible. It includes manufactured goods, agriculture, wine, organics, chemicals, plants, animals etc. Crucially, for the car industry, both the EU and UK have agreed that each others inputs will count "vice-versa" cumulatively towards rules of origin - which should preserve some pan-European supply chains. The main costs now will be ROO compliance checks and customs checks. But both the EU and UK have agreed a 'trusted trader' scheme that should mean only 1-2% spot checks and bureaucracy minimised. This will be particularly focused on Dover and Holyhead to assist roll-on and roll-off. They've also agree to share import and export data in the longer-term (sounds like a bit like some of Theresa's customs 'arrangement' to me) to make that even easier. Lorries can go to/from UK and EU and make further subsequent movements, with limitations.
Aviation and Energy - Aviation is closely knit. Aviation basics are all there on airline operation and more to come in future on maintenance provision, personnel exchange and air traffic cooperation. Energy, electricity/gas/ and renewable interconnectors and cooperation on renewables and climate change as you'd expect.
Business/short-term visitors - EHIC healthcare scheme continues. Short-term visitors for 90 days and temp entry/stay is facilitated. I'd imagine if this has been agreed then we'll also be able to use the EEA/Switzerland passport routes too - TBC.
Thanks for these.
Continuation of EHIC is a biggie for perception. Not sure where that leaves it on reciprocal care of condtions for UK peeps retired to EU?
I'll be interested to see how Erasmus changes since a plurality and I think a majority of the top EU universities on international measures have just left with the UK.
Under the EU there was no reciprocal care for people retired to the EU unless they were drawing a state pension. The younger retired should always have paid into the local scheme.
That's the point.
There were people receiving State Pension concerned about reciprocal care going with Brexit.
Has it gone with this Deal, or is it still there?
I think this has become a bilateral issue, with the UK and Spain coming to agreement. I don't know about Portugal or Italy.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Talk to a Vietnamese student. Or a Russian student. Or a Latin American student.
It is much easier to get access to American universities, if you are clever & poor & want to do an advanced degree.
"There is a fence round the EU," those are the exact words of a Vietnamese friend of mine.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
So, I've now read the TCA summary by HMG. It's worth noting this is a more political document, designed to summarise and sell the Deal here, but it's still worth a read. Key takeaway for me is that both sides have put down markers to build on it in the medium-term. So it's not necessarily quite as "thin" as it will end up becoming:
Goods and agriculture - comprehensive. Zeros tariffs or quotas on goods meeting "rules of origin" standards, which both sides have agreed to keep as unbureaucratic as possible. It includes manufactured goods, agriculture, wine, organics, chemicals, plants, animals etc. Crucially, for the car industry, both the EU and UK have agreed that each others inputs will count "vice-versa" cumulatively towards rules of origin - which should preserve some pan-European supply chains. The main costs now will be ROO compliance checks and customs checks. But both the EU and UK have agreed a 'trusted trader' scheme that should mean only 1-2% spot checks and bureaucracy minimised. This will be particularly focused on Dover and Holyhead to assist roll-on and roll-off. They've also agree to share import and export data in the longer-term (sounds like a bit like some of Theresa's customs 'arrangement' to me) to make that even easier. Lorries can go to/from UK and EU and make further subsequent movements, with limitations.
Aviation and Energy - Aviation is closely knit. Aviation basics are all there on airline operation and more to come in future on maintenance provision, personnel exchange and air traffic cooperation. Energy, electricity/gas/ and renewable interconnectors and cooperation on renewables and climate change as you'd expect.
Business/short-term visitors - EHIC healthcare scheme continues. Short-term visitors for 90 days and temp entry/stay is facilitated. I'd imagine if this has been agreed then we'll also be able to use the EEA/Switzerland passport routes too - TBC.
Thanks for these.
Continuation of EHIC is a biggie for perception. Not sure where that leaves it on reciprocal care of condtions for UK peeps retired to EU?
I'll be interested to see how Erasmus changes since a plurality and I think a majority of the top EU universities on international measures have just left with the UK.
Under the EU there was no reciprocal care for people retired to the EU unless they were drawing a state pension. The younger retired should always have paid into the local scheme.
That's the point.
There were people receiving State Pension concerned about reciprocal care going with Brexit.
Has it gone with this Deal, or is it still there?
Not sure. I suspect anyone already there will be able to register on grandfather rights much as EU cits have been able to apply for settled status here. But there's been a lot of people relying on their EHIC cards when they shouldn't have been.
To be honest, I think if you go to live in another country indefinitely you should treat yourself as an immigrant, learn the language, and apply for residency/citizenship when you are able. And if you haven't, tough shit.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
The Express has a story saying that Ian Blackford was "humiliated" after asking the EU to leave a light on for Scotland. His humiliation consisted of someone writing on Twitter that "it was a democratic vote of the whole UK not just Scotland and leave won can you remember that its f****ng great watching Blackford and krankie crying".
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Is the US and Canada covered by Erasmus?
No, but why should they choose us now?
Why wouldn't they choose the US in the first place given this has nothing to do with Erasmus?
So, I've now read the TCA summary by HMG. It's worth noting this is a more political document, designed to summarise and sell the Deal here, but it's still worth a read. Key takeaway for me is that both sides have put down markers to build on it in the medium-term. So it's not necessarily quite as "thin" as it will end up becoming:
Goods and agriculture - comprehensive. Zeros tariffs or quotas on goods meeting "rules of origin" standards, which both sides have agreed to keep as unbureaucratic as possible. It includes manufactured goods, agriculture, wine, organics, chemicals, plants, animals etc. Crucially, for the car industry, both the EU and UK have agreed that each others inputs will count "vice-versa" cumulatively towards rules of origin - which should preserve some pan-European supply chains. The main costs now will be ROO compliance checks and customs checks. But both the EU and UK have agreed a 'trusted trader' scheme that should mean only 1-2% spot checks and bureaucracy minimised. This will be particularly focused on Dover and Holyhead to assist roll-on and roll-off. They've also agree to share import and export data in the longer-term (sounds like a bit like some of Theresa's customs 'arrangement' to me) to make that even easier. Lorries can go to/from UK and EU and make further subsequent movements, with limitations.
Aviation and Energy - Aviation is closely knit. Aviation basics are all there on airline operation and more to come in future on maintenance provision, personnel exchange and air traffic cooperation. Energy, electricity/gas/ and renewable interconnectors and cooperation on renewables and climate change as you'd expect.
Business/short-term visitors - EHIC healthcare scheme continues. Short-term visitors for 90 days and temp entry/stay is facilitated. I'd imagine if this has been agreed then we'll also be able to use the EEA/Switzerland passport routes too - TBC.
Thanks for these.
Continuation of EHIC is a biggie for perception. Not sure where that leaves it on reciprocal care of condtions for UK peeps retired to EU?
I'll be interested to see how Erasmus changes since a plurality and I think a majority of the top EU universities on international measures have just left with the UK.
Under the EU there was no reciprocal care for people retired to the EU unless they were drawing a state pension. The younger retired should always have paid into the local scheme.
That's the point.
There were people receiving State Pension concerned about reciprocal care going with Brexit.
Has it gone with this Deal, or is it still there?
I think this has become a bilateral issue, with the UK and Spain coming to agreement. I don't know about Portugal or Italy.
Health care for pensioners was guaranteed by Spain several months ago, they can’t afford to lose us. EHIC no idea.
I can't quite believe the twitter outrage about Erasmus. It's almost as if they decided to find an issue that the red wall types couldn't give a monkeys about, and set the metropolitan elite banging on about something other than fish.
Its horses for courses. How many red wall pensioners are on twitter?
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Because they only want to do business on good terms with members of their own expensive political club. There's only 27 EU countries. There's over 200 more out there.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Because they only want to do business on good terms with members of their own expensive political club. There's only 27 EU countries. There's over 200 more out there.
Why does it have more extensive free trade agreements with the rest of the world than the USA then?
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Because they only want to do business on good terms with members of their own expensive political club. There's only 27 EU countries. There's over 200 more out there.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
He thinks leaving the EU is leaving civilisation, I don't think the outside world is figuring into it.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
He thinks leaving the EU is leaving civilisation, I don't think the outside world is figuring into it.
Clear sky so I fetched out our bird watching telescope to look at Jupiter and Saturn. I couldn't make out Saturn's rings but several points of light must have been Jupiter's moon's.
I managed to see the moons with 8x30 binos this summer. The rings need much more firepower.
Saturn's rings were easily visible in a pretty rubbish 25x terrestrial scope on Sunday. 20x and something half decent should easily be enough. The planet only looks mis-shapen in 10x binoculars (or a 300mm SLR lens, which I also tried).
Poor old Galileo couldn't figure it out at all, said he thought the planet had ears.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Because they only want to do business on good terms with members of their own expensive political club. There's only 27 EU countries. There's over 200 more out there.
The 27 only trade with each other?
I never knew that.
"On good terms". Customs Unions are protectionist.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
However well-intentioned, I am really not sure I would have named it after Alan Turing.
It's offensive to try to appropriate his name for something like this to score culture war points.
What? lol.
What a strange comment from williamglenn
The ideology behind the decision is to favourise the development among young people of an Anglophobe identity instead of a European identity. Why bring Alan Turing into it? @RobD's alternative of Rhodes would have at least had the right historical resonance.
Go the whole hog.
Henry VIII .
If we want a totally inappropriate English icon, how about Edward I? Founder of England’s (as distinct from Normandy’s/Anjou’s) first proper empire?
Plus a man who carried out an early act of genocide against the Jews.
Edward the Second would be more fun: we used to remember him in the college prayer every week as "our memorable founder".
Blimey, your college had a very strange criteria for memorable. His reign was so forgettable eventually people forgot he was on the throne and Roger Mortimer took over.
About the only memorable thing about him is the alleged method of execution his wife decided to use on him.
Edit - incidentally, I assume that was Oriel? As it’s stretching a point to call him the founder of Trinity.
Apparently the execution method wasn't that unusual, a medieval method for an unexplained death. You introduce the poker through a funnel to avoid obviously burning the ring. An alternative was hot lead in the ear.
Everyone who had the misfortune to do Hamlet for English A-level knows that one, of course, or a version of it.
So the "2B or not 2B" question is really all about the best type of lead to use?
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Asia?
More countries and more languages. What a ridiculous comment.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Because they only want to do business on good terms with members of their own expensive political club. There's only 27 EU countries. There's over 200 more out there.
That's not really true: the EU has many more FTAs than - for example - the US, China, Japan, or India. I hope we'll emulate South Korea, and manage to beat the EU in terms of number and scope of deals, but I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim that the EU is somehow uniquely anti-free trade, when it has a much better record than other big blocs.
I would also note, that the EU (again pretty uniquely) has entered into FTAs with a lot of poorer countries, especially in Africa.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Asia?
More countries and more languages. What a ridiculous comment.
Certainly the former Soviet Union, with 105 nationalities and many more languages, would be a contender. That’s even if you take out the Baltic States and the Ukraine, which would knock it back to around 100.
Edit - and not even a full continent, but what about the Indian subcontinent? Seven countries, but God knows how many languages and cultures.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Because they only want to do business on good terms with members of their own expensive political club. There's only 27 EU countries. There's over 200 more out there.
Yes and we can trade with all of them. Have you never seen a Mercedes outside of the EU?
Does anybody know when the UK is likely to receive its 7 million Moderna vaccine doses?
Not anytime soon, apparently. I Googled your question and found an article from the Evening Standard from about a week ago...
According to the Government, Moderna is scaling up its European supply chain which means these doses would become available in the UK in the spring at the earliest.
If that's anything like correct then it'll probably arrive roughly in time to vaccinate the fiftysomethings.
It really is AstraZeneca or lockdown until July, I'm afraid.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Because they only want to do business on good terms with members of their own expensive political club. There's only 27 EU countries. There's over 200 more out there.
The 27 only trade with each other?
I never knew that.
"On good terms". Customs Unions are protectionist.
I'm sorry, but that statement is simply incorrect.
There's nothing inherently protectionist about a Customs Union.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Because they only want to do business on good terms with members of their own expensive political club. There's only 27 EU countries. There's over 200 more out there.
Pedantic, but there are 197 countries in the World. So 170 others.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
They seem strangely reluctant to embrace the exceptional open mindedness of the cosmopolitan English..sorry, British.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Africa? Far more countries and languages.
So Europe is one of the least diverse continents? Probably only North America is behind.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Because they only want to do business on good terms with members of their own expensive political club. There's only 27 EU countries. There's over 200 more out there.
That's not really true: the EU has many more FTAs than - for example - the US, China, Japan, or India. I hope we'll emulate South Korea, and manage to beat the EU in terms of number and scope of deals, but I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim that the EU is somehow uniquely anti-free trade, when it has a much better record than other big blocs.
I would also note, that the EU (again pretty uniquely) has entered into FTAs with a lot of poorer countries, especially in Africa.
Yes and if the Remain campaign had done so on the basis of how many free trade agreements the EU was signing up to, it might have swung my vote. I was only a marginal outer (I assumed we would probably screw up our departure). But I don't remember that being a major part of the Remain campaign.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Africa? Far more countries and languages.
Again, Brazil - 40 tribes that have never seen an outsider, plus the ones that have, plus the Portuguese culture....
Crumbs. @Malmesbury's figures for the Thames Estuary are eye watering. There is some pretty scary doubling going on down there.
Yep. It really is a shitstorm.
When you say that it worries me even more.......
It looks absolutely awful to any lay person who can read off the numbers, let alone hospital doctors.
Oh, and on my latest hobbyhorse...
Schools and universities may need to close, on top of tier 4 restrictions, to bring the new UK coronavirus variant under control, a rapid analysis says.
The work, which is still preliminary, calculates the variant is spreading 56% faster than other forms of the virus.
The researchers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine say whether schools can stay open is the key question for the New Year.
I've a bet with ydoethur on the schools point and expect to win.
Logically it is better to go for more extreme restrictions initially and then let up one virus is under control.
Delaying the start of school also gives some breathing space between Christmas mixing.
I'm genuinely torn on this (not on the principle, but on the matter of what the Government will actually do.) The progressive creation and expansion of Tier 4 does begin to suggest that they may finally have learned to act more quickly and decisively - albeit that there's a strong argument for having simply gone straight to a nationwide lockdown - but they have staked a lot reputationally on keeping education going. And they do have lengthy past form on not taking unpalatable but necessary decisions, and then being forced to shift by events once much of the resultant damage has already been done.
The sensible thing under the present, dire, circumstances would be to keep kids home, but they may very well let them all back and then be forced into a U-turn later in January, once pictures of overwhelmed hospitals are broadcast and some of the epidemiologically modellers then start to suggest that the data shows that schoolkids are key drivers of the spread. If events do unfold in that fashion then many more people would end up dying to no useful effect (because, having finally sent children home, they'd have to stay home for longer before the rampaging epidemic calmed down.)
There's also an argument to be had about bringing the 2021 Summer holidays forward into Winter and writing off January and the first half of February completely. That could allow us both to get children out of circulation for an extended period, and to recover much face-to-face tuition later in the year rather than getting by with remote learning during that time.
In secondary schools we are not expecting any pupils in except Y13 and Y11 for the first week (this may just be Tier 4). As Y11 are doing mocks that means only Y13 will get taught in classrooms.
It's a bit moot for me as I have to shield again and will be working from home myself until we are out of Tier 4 or I get vaccinated.
Hope you're doing OK, Fysics. This term has been tricky, to say the least. I'm due back on the 4th -my Y11 and Y13s have exams. I'm assuming the DfE will send out a load of half arsed 'guidance' at midnight on the 3rd.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Africa? Far more countries and languages.
So Europe is one of the least diverse continents? Probably only North America is behind.
Fairly sure Antarctica would be close to the bottom of the list.
Does anybody know when the UK is likely to receive its 7 million Moderna vaccine doses?
Not anytime soon, apparently. I Googled your question and found an article from the Evening Standard from about a week ago...
According to the Government, Moderna is scaling up its European supply chain which means these doses would become available in the UK in the spring at the earliest.
If that's anything like correct then it'll probably arrive roughly in time to vaccinate the fiftysomethings.
It really is AstraZeneca or lockdown until July, I'm afraid.
What about Johnson & Johnson? That's single dose, only needs refrigeration, is expecting results in January, and we're due 30 million doses in Q1.
That's the real game changer for me, as it's no more complex than a flu vaccine to administer.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Africa? Far more countries and languages.
So Europe is one of the least diverse continents? Probably only North America is behind.
Fairly sure Antarctica would be close to the bottom of the list.
How many nationalities are represented down there at any one time?
Crumbs. @Malmesbury's figures for the Thames Estuary are eye watering. There is some pretty scary doubling going on down there.
Yep. It really is a shitstorm.
When you say that it worries me even more.......
It looks absolutely awful to any lay person who can read off the numbers, let alone hospital doctors.
Oh, and on my latest hobbyhorse...
Schools and universities may need to close, on top of tier 4 restrictions, to bring the new UK coronavirus variant under control, a rapid analysis says.
The work, which is still preliminary, calculates the variant is spreading 56% faster than other forms of the virus.
The researchers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine say whether schools can stay open is the key question for the New Year.
I've a bet with ydoethur on the schools point and expect to win.
Logically it is better to go for more extreme restrictions initially and then let up one virus is under control.
Delaying the start of school also gives some breathing space between Christmas mixing.
I'm genuinely torn on this (not on the principle, but on the matter of what the Government will actually do.) The progressive creation and expansion of Tier 4 does begin to suggest that they may finally have learned to act more quickly and decisively - albeit that there's a strong argument for having simply gone straight to a nationwide lockdown - but they have staked a lot reputationally on keeping education going. And they do have lengthy past form on not taking unpalatable but necessary decisions, and then being forced to shift by events once much of the resultant damage has already been done.
The sensible thing under the present, dire, circumstances would be to keep kids home, but they may very well let them all back and then be forced into a U-turn later in January, once pictures of overwhelmed hospitals are broadcast and some of the epidemiologically modellers then start to suggest that the data shows that schoolkids are key drivers of the spread. If events do unfold in that fashion then many more people would end up dying to no useful effect (because, having finally sent children home, they'd have to stay home for longer before the rampaging epidemic calmed down.)
There's also an argument to be had about bringing the 2021 Summer holidays forward into Winter and writing off January and the first half of February completely. That could allow us both to get children out of circulation for an extended period, and to recover much face-to-face tuition later in the year rather than getting by with remote learning during that time.
In secondary schools we are not expecting any pupils in except Y13 and Y11 for the first week (this may just be Tier 4). As Y11 are doing mocks that means only Y13 will get taught in classrooms.
It's a bit moot for me as I have to shield again and will be working from home myself until we are out of Tier 4 or I get vaccinated.
Hope you're doing OK, Fysics. This term has been tricky, to say the least. I'm due back on the 4th -my Y11 and Y13s have exams. I'm assuming the DfE will send out a load of half arsed 'guidance' at midnight on the 3rd.
I’m glad somebody is optimistic.
I was just assuming they would expect us to cope as usual without any help.
Although truthfully given how inept they are we usually do better without their help...
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Because they only want to do business on good terms with members of their own expensive political club. There's only 27 EU countries. There's over 200 more out there.
The 27 only trade with each other?
I never knew that.
"On good terms". Customs Unions are protectionist.
I'm sorry, but that statement is simply incorrect.
There's nothing inherently protectionist about a Customs Union.
They usually erect penal external tariffs.. Of course, you can choose not to.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Africa? Far more countries and languages.
So Europe is one of the least diverse continents? Probably only North America is behind.
Fairly sure Antarctica would be close to the bottom of the list.
Autralia has only one country, but I'm pretty sure that there are more languages spoken there than in Europe.
Edit: I'm now kicking myself for not saying that Antarctica is at the bottom of most things...
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Because they only want to do business on good terms with members of their own expensive political club. There's only 27 EU countries. There's over 200 more out there.
That's not really true: the EU has many more FTAs than - for example - the US, China, Japan, or India. I hope we'll emulate South Korea, and manage to beat the EU in terms of number and scope of deals, but I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim that the EU is somehow uniquely anti-free trade, when it has a much better record than other big blocs.
I would also note, that the EU (again pretty uniquely) has entered into FTAs with a lot of poorer countries, especially in Africa.
Yes and if the Remain campaign had done so on the basis of how many free trade agreements the EU was signing up to, it might have swung my vote. I was only a marginal outer (I assumed we would probably screw up our departure). But I don't remember that being a major part of the Remain campaign.
I voted Leave (for governance reasons), but of all the accusations that can be levelled at the EU, the idea that they are uniquely (or even particularly) protectionist is the one most lacking in substance.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Africa? Far more countries and languages.
So Europe is one of the least diverse continents? Probably only North America is behind.
Fairly sure Antarctica would be close to the bottom of the list.
How many nationalities are represented down there at any one time?
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Africa? Far more countries and languages.
So Europe is one of the least diverse continents? Probably only North America is behind.
Fairly sure Antarctica would be close to the bottom of the list.
How many nationalities are represented down there at any one time?
Does anybody know when the UK is likely to receive its 7 million Moderna vaccine doses?
Not anytime soon, apparently. I Googled your question and found an article from the Evening Standard from about a week ago...
According to the Government, Moderna is scaling up its European supply chain which means these doses would become available in the UK in the spring at the earliest.
If that's anything like correct then it'll probably arrive roughly in time to vaccinate the fiftysomethings.
It really is AstraZeneca or lockdown until July, I'm afraid.
What about Johnson & Johnson? That's single dose, only needs refrigeration, is expecting results in January, and we're due 30 million doses in Q1.
That's the real game changer for me, as it's no more complex than a flu vaccine to administer.
I'm not sure, but again possibly not for a long time. I found this report on the J&J trials taking place in the UK, from November:
It ends with the following, less than encouraging, words:
Scientists leading the UK trial did not give details of the other countries that would be involved in this two-dose trial, but said Britain is the first location to start it. Recruitment into the study will complete in March 2021 and the trial will last for 12 months.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Africa? Far more countries and languages.
Name five languages, and in each case outline the principal works of literature written in it.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Because they only want to do business on good terms with members of their own expensive political club. There's only 27 EU countries. There's over 200 more out there.
The 27 only trade with each other?
I never knew that.
"On good terms". Customs Unions are protectionist.
I'm sorry, but that statement is simply incorrect.
There's nothing inherently protectionist about a Customs Union.
They usually erect penal external tariffs.. Of course, you can choose not to.
The World Bank has data on average tariff rates (https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/TM.TAX.MRCH.WM.AR.ZS), and the EU's average applied external tariff is just 1.7%. Now, that number is skewed by imports of oil and other raw materials that are taxed at 0%, but it's still not a particularly high number compared to either history or other countries or trade blocs.
If you look at most economists analysis (looking at what countries need to import), the external tariffs imposed by the EU are lower on average than China, India or Japan, and broadly the same as he US. (Australia is an outlier with lower external tariffs. South Korea, outside its FTAs, much highr.)
That doesn't mean that there aren't areas where tariffs are high (the EU has relatively high tariffs on cars, while the US has them in "light trucks", aka SUVs), but by-and-large the EU has lower external tariffs than most.
Question - does the deal have to be ratified by just the UK and EU parliaments, or by parliaments in the 27 member states also?
Thanks!
DC
No idea, so shouldn't answer really... but what the hell!
Somebody earlier was suggesting that the treaty only contained EU competences so didn't need national parliament authorisations. No idea if this is true (never heard this before!) - but it would fit with all the commentary there has been about when the EU Parliament would manage to ratify, and whether it was important or not that it was ratified by them before Jan 1st.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Africa? Far more countries and languages.
Name five languages, and in each case outline the principal works of literature written in it.
I could name several (Afrikaans, English, Xhosa, Zulu, Arabic and French off the top of my head) but I'm not sure I could list the principle works of literature in any of them: after all how many books in English would count?
Does anybody know when the UK is likely to receive its 7 million Moderna vaccine doses?
Not anytime soon, apparently. I Googled your question and found an article from the Evening Standard from about a week ago...
According to the Government, Moderna is scaling up its European supply chain which means these doses would become available in the UK in the spring at the earliest.
If that's anything like correct then it'll probably arrive roughly in time to vaccinate the fiftysomethings.
It really is AstraZeneca or lockdown until July, I'm afraid.
What about Johnson & Johnson? That's single dose, only needs refrigeration, is expecting results in January, and we're due 30 million doses in Q1.
That's the real game changer for me, as it's no more complex than a flu vaccine to administer.
I'm not sure, but again possibly not for a long time. I found this report on the J&J trials taking place in the UK, from November:
It ends with the following, less than encouraging, words:
Scientists leading the UK trial did not give details of the other countries that would be involved in this two-dose trial, but said Britain is the first location to start it. Recruitment into the study will complete in March 2021 and the trial will last for 12 months.
J&J is running a 60,000 person single dose trial in the US (which started in late September), and a two-dose trial in the UK. If the US trial comes back positively, I imagine they'll drop the two-dose trial.
Of course, while we don't talk about it, there have been plenty of vaccine failures, so there's no guarantee it will work. But J&J - if the results are positive and come in January - could be a game changer.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Well slough for one, over 140 languages here and more than 50 spoken as first language in slough schools....guess that makes slough a lot more civillised than the eu
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Africa? Far more countries and languages.
Name five languages, and in each case outline the principal works of literature written in it.
I could name several (Afrikaans, English, Xhosa, Zulu, Arabic and French off the top of my head) but I'm not sure I could list the principle works of literature in any of them: after all how many books in English would count?
Interesting that four of those six languages are colonial.
No mention of say, Swahili, Kikuyu or Asante (to pick three random examples).
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Talk to a Vietnamese student. Or a Russian student. Or a Latin American student.
It is much easier to get access to American universities, if you are clever & poor & want to do an advanced degree.
"There is a fence round the EU," those are the exact words of a Vietnamese friend of mine.
The view from South America is also interesting...
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Africa? Far more countries and languages.
So Europe is one of the least diverse continents? Probably only North America is behind.
Fairly sure Antarctica would be close to the bottom of the list.
Autralia has only one country, but I'm pretty sure that there are more languages spoken there than in Europe.
Edit: I'm now kicking myself for not saying that Antarctica is at the bottom of most things...
Spanish truck drivers claiming they can’t even cook their meals, nobody is doing anything to help them as they wait in the queue. I wouldn’t buy surprised if he refused to return for a while
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Africa? Far more countries and languages.
Name five languages, and in each case outline the principal works of literature written in it.
I could name several (Afrikaans, English, Xhosa, Zulu, Arabic and French off the top of my head) but I'm not sure I could list the principle works of literature in any of them: after all how many books in English would count?
Interesting that four of those six languages are colonial.
No mention of say, Swahili, Kikuyu or Asante (to pick three random examples).
Swahili is colonial as fuck; it's a pidgin or creole with a lot of Arabic in it.
The next election has been blown wide open with Keir's actions today, he's taking the Red Wall seriously.
Of course Tories will still call him Captain Foresight and fence sitter but they wouldn't have voted for him anyway.
I have to disagree there. Starmer's actions on this are likely to make little difference to the next election - unlikely before Spring 2024. By that time Brexit will be no more relevant to voters than the 2003 Iraq War had become by 2010.
I see, that's interesting. I suppose we can only hope for a successful result in the not-too-distant future. Given the need for as many doses as possible as quickly as possible, if we can get our hands on this one as well then that can only be positive.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Africa? Far more countries and languages.
Name five languages, and in each case outline the principal works of literature written in it.
I could name several (Afrikaans, English, Xhosa, Zulu, Arabic and French off the top of my head) but I'm not sure I could list the principle works of literature in any of them: after all how many books in English would count?
You have to recognise that the novel is a European invention, and while dominant for some time in the literary culture of the developed world, other forms of cultural expression are more relevant in other cultures.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Because they only want to do business on good terms with members of their own expensive political club. There's only 27 EU countries. There's over 200 more out there.
That's not really true: the EU has many more FTAs than - for example - the US, China, Japan, or India. I hope we'll emulate South Korea, and manage to beat the EU in terms of number and scope of deals, but I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim that the EU is somehow uniquely anti-free trade, when it has a much better record than other big blocs.
I would also note, that the EU (again pretty uniquely) has entered into FTAs with a lot of poorer countries, especially in Africa.
Are they fair?
I haven't looked, but the content of .. er .. EU Fishing Agreements with West African countries has a poor record for fairness.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Africa? Far more countries and languages.
Name five languages, and in each case outline the principal works of literature written in it.
I could name several (Afrikaans, English, Xhosa, Zulu, Arabic and French off the top of my head) but I'm not sure I could list the principle works of literature in any of them: after all how many books in English would count?
Interesting that four of those six languages are colonial.
No mention of say, Swahili, Kikuyu or Asante (to pick three random examples).
Though African literature in English can be very good indeed.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
Because they only want to do business on good terms with members of their own expensive political club. There's only 27 EU countries. There's over 200 more out there.
That's not really true: the EU has many more FTAs than - for example - the US, China, Japan, or India. I hope we'll emulate South Korea, and manage to beat the EU in terms of number and scope of deals, but I think it's pretty disingenuous to claim that the EU is somehow uniquely anti-free trade, when it has a much better record than other big blocs.
I would also note, that the EU (again pretty uniquely) has entered into FTAs with a lot of poorer countries, especially in Africa.
Are they fair?
I haven't looked, but the content of .. er .. EU Fishing Agreements with West African countries has a poor record for fairness.
I imagine they're very similar to the deals poorer countries have also signed with China, Canadian and Korea regarding fishing right. Poor countries sell rights to their natural resources for very little money, shocker.
I know I shouldn't react to it, but I just cannot believe the cringyness of reactions like that of Adonis. Seriously, does he think no one in British political life uses quotations?
It's no good someone to suggest it might mean that in general the European body politic is so much more classy and civilised, since he is using that specific example as demonstrative of it, and it is a nice sentiment but entirely unexceptional behaviour. A 5 second google search can find you Jacob Rees-Mogg quoting Shakespeare, I'm sure that will convince Nats they could never leave such a civilised nation as ther UK, for example.
And if it is about being courteous, that was lovely from UvdL and Boris is typically more of a boor, but it's just pathetic to act like the defining element of Europe is courteous politics and it's unheard of here.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Except Turing wil include EU students and if the EU learns to be less insular, that's a gain.
The EU insular? How? The largest trading block in the world. In what way insular?
What does its size have to do with its relations with the outside world?
Where else do you get the diversity of the EU in a single continent? 15 or 16 languages 27 quite different countries. Where? There is nowhere.
Africa? Far more countries and languages.
Name five languages, and in each case outline the principal works of literature written in it.
I could name several (Afrikaans, English, Xhosa, Zulu, Arabic and French off the top of my head) but I'm not sure I could list the principle works of literature in any of them: after all how many books in English would count?
You have to recognise that the novel is a European invention, and while dominant for some time in the literary culture of the developed world, other forms of cultural expression are more relevant in other cultures.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Is the US and Canada covered by Erasmus?
No, but why should they choose us now?
Because we've got 3 of the top 10 universities in the world, the other 7 in the US.
If you wanted to study genomic sequencing, for example, where would you go?
"Parting is such sweet sorrow" is from Romeo and Juliet.
Yes but I'm guessing that she continued with the Eliot, unless Andy A. is making stuff up.
Though I note he can't spell Eliot.
I think the Eliot is his own contribution.
That would be the Eliot who wrote
"My house is a decayed house, And the Jew squats on the window sill, the owner, Spawned in some estaminet of Antwerp, Blistered in Brussels, patched and peeled in London."
So not necessarily the go-to poet for Anglo-European relationships.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Is the US and Canada covered by Erasmus?
No, but why should they choose us now?
Because we've got 3 of the top 10 universities in the world, the other 7 in the US.
If you wanted to study genomic sequencing, for example, where would you go?
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Is the US and Canada covered by Erasmus?
No, but why should they choose us now?
Because we've got 3 of the top 10 universities in the world, the other 7 in the US.
If you wanted to study genomic sequencing, for example, where would you go?
If someone wants to make the argument that fewer might choose the UK I'd get the argument, but 'why should they choose us now' makes it sound like it would not make sense for anyone to want to choose us outside of Erasmus under any circumstances, which seems strange.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Is the US and Canada covered by Erasmus?
No, but why should they choose us now?
Because we've got 3 of the top 10 universities in the world, the other 7 in the US.
If you wanted to study genomic sequencing, for example, where would you go?
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Is the US and Canada covered by Erasmus?
No, but why should they choose us now?
Because we've got 3 of the top 10 universities in the world, the other 7 in the US.
If you wanted to study genomic sequencing, for example, where would you go?
If someone wants to make the argument that fewer might choose the UK I'd get the argument, but 'why should they choose us now' makes it sound like it would not make sense for anyone to want to choose us outside of Erasmus under any circumstances, which seems strange.
OK, do you think it will increase interest in studying in the UK, or reduce it?
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Is the US and Canada covered by Erasmus?
No, but why should they choose us now?
Because we've got 3 of the top 10 universities in the world, the other 7 in the US.
If you wanted to study genomic sequencing, for example, where would you go?
If someone wants to make the argument that fewer might choose the UK I'd get the argument, but 'why should they choose us now' makes it sound like it would not make sense for anyone to want to choose us outside of Erasmus under any circumstances, which seems strange.
OK, do you think it will increase interest in studying in the UK, or reduce it?
I have no idea, but given one scheme is already established and the other not yet, I'd imagine it would reduce it at least in the short to medium term. If that was the point you wanted to make it seems easier enough to do without the 'woe is us' doommongering about why should anyone choose us.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Is the US and Canada covered by Erasmus?
No, but why should they choose us now?
Because we've got 3 of the top 10 universities in the world, the other 7 in the US.
If you wanted to study genomic sequencing, for example, where would you go?
If someone wants to make the argument that fewer might choose the UK I'd get the argument, but 'why should they choose us now' makes it sound like it would not make sense for anyone to want to choose us outside of Erasmus under any circumstances, which seems strange.
OK, do you think it will increase interest in studying in the UK, or reduce it?
Why should it make much difference? Whether it would change opportunity is one thing. But why should it affect interest in studying here?
I know I shouldn't react to it, but I just cannot believe the cringyness of reactions like that of Adonis. Seriously, does he think no one in British political life uses quotations?
It's no good someone to suggest it might mean that in general the European body politic is so much more classy and civilised, since he is using that specific example as demonstrative of it, and it is a nice sentiment but entirely unexceptional behaviour. A 5 second google search can find you Jacob Rees-Mogg quoting Shakespeare, I'm sure that will convince Nats they could never leave such a civilised nation as ther UK, for example.
And if it is about being courteous, that was lovely from UvdL and Boris is typically more of a boor, but it's just pathetic to act like the defining element of Europe is courteous politics and it's unheard of here.
It's cultural cringe.
For the avoidance of doubt I am in no way an advocate for Adonis. However I think there probably is a not very sweet spot of folk who simultaneously are impressed by Boris's Latinising while deploring them foreigns spouting poetry.
Anyway, have a lovely Christmas everyone (or not, if you don't care for it), and positive thoughts to all especially those alone in these difficult times.
"Parting is such sweet sorrow" is from Romeo and Juliet.
Yes but I'm guessing that she continued with the Eliot, unless Andy A. is making stuff up.
Though I note he can't spell Eliot.
I think the Eliot is his own contribution.
That would be the Eliot who wrote
"My house is a decayed house, And the Jew squats on the window sill, the owner, Spawned in some estaminet of Antwerp, Blistered in Brussels, patched and peeled in London."
So not necessarily the go-to poet for Anglo-European relationships.
I think leaving Erasmus is a real shame and something a lot of young people will really find very bemusing about why it's gone.
We all need to go ahead together and that means moving past Brexit but I can't help but feel as usual with the Tories anyone young just gets ignored in whatever they do.
Agreed, that is a particularly sad casualty. I don't think Brexit has done the Torys any favours with younger voters. But maybe the sad truth is they don't need them, and don't need to give a shit, especially now Labour is done for in Scotland.
Are we definitely leaving Erasmus? I heard they were still discussing that?
Whatever the deal, it now gives grown-ups the chance to opt back in to various schemes like Erasmus. It should be a no-brainer.
We wanted to. The EU said no, you’re leaving, despite the fact that plenty of non EU members are part of the scheme
I think they tripled the price (to the Associate Member rate) and the U.K. said it wasn’t worth it, they could do it themselves. Entirely reasonable - we have several of these schemes already and there is nothing intrinsically special about Erasmus
Ah, so we've moved on from *checks notes* 'The EU said no, you’re leaving'. Glad we've cleared that up.
To be fair it was "no, you're leaving unless you pay more".
Yeah, Barnier's crocodile tears on Erasmus were pretty nauseating given what the EU was asking us to pay. But given that about twice as many EU students came to the UK as UK students went to study in the EU, I think they've rather shot themselves in the foot.
A loss to Britain. A lot of EU students came to study in Britain and gained an affection that carried forward into their postgraduate careers. From now on they will go to Ireland, IndyScotland or North America. Our loss, not theirs.
Is the US and Canada covered by Erasmus?
No, but why should they choose us now?
Because we've got 3 of the top 10 universities in the world, the other 7 in the US.
If you wanted to study genomic sequencing, for example, where would you go?
If someone wants to make the argument that fewer might choose the UK I'd get the argument, but 'why should they choose us now' makes it sound like it would not make sense for anyone to want to choose us outside of Erasmus under any circumstances, which seems strange.
OK, do you think it will increase interest in studying in the UK, or reduce it?
I have no idea, but given one scheme is already established and the other not yet, I'd imagine it would reduce it at least in the short to medium term. If that was the point you wanted to make it seems easier enough to do without the 'woe is us' doommongering about why should anyone choose us.
Is Erasmus actually a major contributor to those who "came to study and gained an affection that carried forward into their post-graduate careers"? I would have thought that this would be more linked to people who did complete periods of study here.
Comments
It is much easier to get access to American universities, if you are clever & poor & want to do an advanced degree.
"There is a fence round the EU," those are the exact words of a Vietnamese friend of mine.
To be honest, I think if you go to live in another country indefinitely you should treat yourself as an immigrant, learn the language, and apply for residency/citizenship when you are able. And if you haven't, tough shit.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1376607/Blackford-news-SNP-Brexit-UK-EU-trade-deal-Scotland-independence-latest-vn
Our traded goods and services are actually more like 40:60 services:goods.
(Though services are in surplus, and goods in deficit).
That can be argued at least 2 ways:
1 - The Deal reached prioritises areas of the economy with the biggest trade flows.
2 - The Deal reached ignores areas of the economy where most growth is happening.
Take your pick of 1 or 2.
Where have we heard that before
Does anybody know when the UK is likely to receive its 7 million Moderna vaccine doses?
I never knew that.
Both are in late Stage 3, so we might be lucky and get news in the first half of January.
More countries and more languages. What a ridiculous comment.
I would also note, that the EU (again pretty uniquely) has entered into FTAs with a lot of poorer countries, especially in Africa.
Edit - and not even a full continent, but what about the Indian subcontinent? Seven countries, but God knows how many languages and cultures.
According to the Government, Moderna is scaling up its European supply chain which means these doses would become available in the UK in the spring at the earliest.
If that's anything like correct then it'll probably arrive roughly in time to vaccinate the fiftysomethings.
It really is AstraZeneca or lockdown until July, I'm afraid.
There's nothing inherently protectionist about a Customs Union.
Our membership of that is completely separate to our membership of the EU.
That's the real game changer for me, as it's no more complex than a flu vaccine to administer.
I was just assuming they would expect us to cope as usual without any help.
Although truthfully given how inept they are we usually do better without their help...
Edit: I'm now kicking myself for not saying that Antarctica is at the bottom of most things...
https://uk.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-jj-britain/jj-starts-two-dose-trial-of-its-covid-19-candidate-vaccine-in-the-uk-idUSL8N2HZ5OR
It ends with the following, less than encouraging, words:
Scientists leading the UK trial did not give details of the other countries that would be involved in this two-dose trial, but said Britain is the first location to start it. Recruitment into the study will complete in March 2021 and the trial will last for 12 months.
Question - does the deal have to be ratified by just the UK and EU parliaments, or by parliaments in the 27 member states also?
Thanks!
DC
If you look at most economists analysis (looking at what countries need to import), the external tariffs imposed by the EU are lower on average than China, India or Japan, and broadly the same as he US. (Australia is an outlier with lower external tariffs. South Korea, outside its FTAs, much highr.)
That doesn't mean that there aren't areas where tariffs are high (the EU has relatively high tariffs on cars, while the US has them in "light trucks", aka SUVs), but by-and-large the EU has lower external tariffs than most.
Somebody earlier was suggesting that the treaty only contained EU competences so didn't need national parliament authorisations. No idea if this is true (never heard this before!) - but it would fit with all the commentary there has been about when the EU Parliament would manage to ratify, and whether it was important or not that it was ratified by them before Jan 1st.
Of course, while we don't talk about it, there have been plenty of vaccine failures, so there's no guarantee it will work. But J&J - if the results are positive and come in January - could be a game changer.
Here's an article on the US trial starting: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/23/health/covid-19-vaccine-johnson-and-johnson.html
https://thelink.slough.gov.uk/schools/about-our-schools#:~:text=Over 140 different languages are,by children in Slough schools.
No mention of say, Swahili, Kikuyu or Asante (to pick three random examples).
This is there high-end estimate, includes airline, rail, bus & cruise as well as auto travel.
Still absurd but also -25% down compared to 2019
https://newsroom.aaa.com/2020/12/at-least-34-million-fewer-americans-to-travel-this-holiday-season/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-55410065
https://www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-schools-covid-government-accidentally-bans-schooling-children
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1342130610802982912?s=20
I haven't looked, but the content of .. er .. EU Fishing Agreements with West African countries has a poor record for fairness.
‘ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.’
Apply to the EU if a Leaver, and Johnson if a Remainer.
Though I note he can't spell Eliot.
I haven't read the text of the agreement (https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/ST-13370-2014-ADD-1/en/pdf), but my guess is that the African countries benefit hugely from being able to export their products tariff free to Europe.
It's no good someone to suggest it might mean that in general the European body politic is so much more classy and civilised, since he is using that specific example as demonstrative of it, and it is a nice sentiment but entirely unexceptional behaviour. A 5 second google search can find you Jacob Rees-Mogg quoting Shakespeare, I'm sure that will convince Nats they could never leave such a civilised nation as ther UK, for example.
And if it is about being courteous, that was lovely from UvdL and Boris is typically more of a boor, but it's just pathetic to act like the defining element of Europe is courteous politics and it's unheard of here.
It's cultural cringe.
If you wanted to study genomic sequencing, for example, where would you go?
That would be the Eliot who wrote
"My house is a decayed house,
And the Jew squats on the window sill, the owner,
Spawned in some estaminet of Antwerp,
Blistered in Brussels, patched and peeled in London."
So not necessarily the go-to poet for Anglo-European relationships.
However I think there probably is a not very sweet spot of folk who simultaneously are impressed by Boris's Latinising while deploring them foreigns spouting poetry.