It has a clear exit strategy - vaccinate people. What he's asking for is a promise that the government never change tack to increase restrictions, despite even a competent government not being omnipitent enough to guarantee that.
I don't think so. He is merely asking for new restrictions imposed on personal liberties to be debated and agreed by parliament.
As they are, you know, in a democracy.
Many of these rules are being imposed by people who are not accountable, whose very high income and lives are not affected, and whose science is in dispute by academics of standing.
The parliamentary debate and scrutiny part is certainly a valid complaint and one which at times parliamentarians have been too supine about, but for one it is not the case they are imposed by those who are not accountable, since Boris and the Cabinet are accountable yet you persistently are pretending some unelected person is doing it, and for two, he is complaining about the lack of exit strategy as he sees it and the nature of the decisions being taken, not merely how they are being taken, so he is definitely also simply criticising the decisions in a way which is unreasonable given the government can have all the plans in the world, and they could be agreed in parliament after debate, and the situation could then change. There's a reason we have a government after all, to respond to things day to day - that doesn't mean Boris doesn't seek to avoid parliament, I agree he does, but it is pretty clear when people want more debate, and when they want control which not reasonable.
Whitty and Vallance are not accountable, and the decisions they are taking to do not affect their incomes, pensions or careers one jot.
Whitty and Valance are advisers! You know that. The decision makers could take other decisions despite their advice, and it was reported back in September that they had done so on at least one occasion.
You simply cannot pretend that the decision makers are not the ones taking the decisions just because you dislike the people giving the advice, even if it can be hard to go against that advice. It remains advice.
Be mad at Whitty and Valance if you like, they will not be infallible. But be mad at them for what they are, and not for what they are not. It simply undermines any legitimate criticism to include illegitimate criticisms that they are in command. They are not.
Scottish schools delayed in return after Christmas - online learning from the 11th and not back in the schools themselves until 18th.
It won’t make a difference here.
Because ultimately, the decisions in England are not about education, or children - they’re about the DfE and its ministers wanting to feel important and in charge.
UK 27k NL12k - 49k if scaled up CZ 9k - 54k if scaled up
There will be other countries with other variants.
I also wonder if Belgium has had a more infectious variant.
And Sweden? They were doing relatively well until a couple of weeks or so ago.
Whatever you say about Sweden, they will be in a much stronger position that us when vaccines take effect.
Their economy is far, far less shattered and broken that ours is.
Sweden's economy contracted more than its neighbours. Why don't you say that we should copy Denmark?
Because it's not really about protecting the economy, it's about opposing the restrictions, even if other places have done better economically than Sweden, and even if Sweden's lack of restrictions is not as extreme as some are still pretending.
Hundreds of Pfizer vaccine doses are 'RUINED' after fridge storing vials at -70C in GP surgery in Northamptonshire 'failed' forcing clinic to halt vaccinations
Excellent and measured presentation from Sturgeon, showing how it should be done. Only half the rates up here but no shill shallying , closing things down early regardless of her personal popularity. Great she is closing the border as well as curtailing Christmas meetings.
Probably sensible but it saddens me I cannot travel to my beloved family in the North East of Scotland
Though I was not going to go anywhere at Christmas anyway
Has he mentioned unrestricted entry into the UK yet ?
Or does he still support it.
Why are you obsessed with the "foreign invader" aspect of the virus?
Just seems a bit odd to me. It's relevant, sure, but still.
As you say its relevant.
And Starmer has completely ignored it ?
Why is that ? Its been an open goal since March.
I genuinely don't know. Perhaps he doesn't see it as a priority compared to the things he IS majoring on.
What do you think the reason is?
I assume Starmer is some variant of freedom of movement / have to be 'open for business' / globalist sociopath / doesn't want to upset holiday obsessives.
There are plenty of them throughout the Westminster establishment.
The most cyncical 'globalist sociopaths' are those like mercenary currency market spiv Nigel Farage, or manafacturing offshorers and tax exiles Jim Ratcliffe and James Dyson, who simultaneously shout and proclaim their patriotic attachment to sovereignty to the gullible.
UK 27k NL12k - 49k if scaled up CZ 9k - 54k if scaled up
There will be other countries with other variants.
I also wonder if Belgium has had a more infectious variant.
And Sweden? They were doing relatively well until a couple of weeks or so ago.
Whatever you say about Sweden, they will be in a much stronger position that us when vaccines take effect.
Their economy is far, far less shattered and broken that ours is.
Sweden's economy contracted more than its neighbours. Why don't you say that we should copy Denmark?
The graphic I saw showed Sweden's economy shrinking 3.5% in 2020. USA 4%
Britain? 11.5%
Our economy is getting destroyed, our budget deficit is almost unrecoverable inside a decade I reckon, if that.
Sweden might have sacrificed the golden years of some eighty year olds that we haven't, I don;t know.
But the outlook for the vast majority of their citizens is far, far, far better than ours. And that's a trade off I would have taken any day of the week.
The more sensible tory MPs are now realising than the sunlit uplands are not getting closer but further away. That they are the party that cancelled Christmas and saddled the country with a horrendous economic crisis that will take, well I shudder to think how long it will take to recover.
This forum is raging against Boris but those doing so are mainly those who are anti brexit or on the right
It will be interesting to see the polling on this over the next few days
A quick look suggests that only one person on this forum is raging about the Tier 4 for Christmas, the other negative comments are to do with the lack of consistency coming out of Downing Street.
There is lots of "Raging against Boris" being reposted from Twitter. But thankfully this forum is not Twitter.
There are several questions around Tier 4. For example, how long does it last? What happens when schools go back? Will it be extended to other areas, and if so, on what basis?
But truthfully, the key issue is he said he would not ‘cancel Christmas,’ made a party political point out of it, and has now had to eat his words - which shows he just doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.
Did he say he would not cancel Christmas technically?
Or did he just say he did not want to?
Today he is saying that although he doesn't want to, because of the news he got yesterday from Nervtag he has to.
He stuck to what he wanted probably longer than he should have is the issue. If Drakeford got crap for changing position in Wales, Boris cannot avoid it for the UK.
It seems most people on here want to make political hay of this afternoon's annoucement.
I don't. I favoured a common-sense approach to Christmas, and the risk appetite of people for it was different plus, with schools closed and fewer working, the R would drop to compensate too.
No-one expected a far more contagious mutant strain to emerge. You can criticise him for being 2-4 days late, perhaps (and he might have wanted to exhaust every alternative first) but this isn't like the late lockdown 1 and very late lockdown 2.
It's just we're all much more pissed as we all wanted to see our families.
Excellent and measured presentation from Sturgeon, showing how it should be done. Only half the rates up here but no shill shallying , closing things down early regardless of her personal popularity. Great she is closing the border as well as curtailing Christmas meetings.
Probably sensible but it saddens me I cannot travel to my beloved family in the North East of Scotland
Though I was not going to go anywhere at Christmas anyway
Crazy going anywhere at present anyway G. Given the huge increases down south it is extremely sensible move. They really need to be sure they enforce these things now.
This forum is raging against Boris but those doing so are mainly those who are anti brexit or on the right
It will be interesting to see the polling on this over the next few days
A quick look suggests that only one person on this forum is raging about the Tier 4 for Christmas, the other negative comments are to do with the lack of consistency coming out of Downing Street.
There is lots of "Raging against Boris" being reposted from Twitter. But thankfully this forum is not Twitter.
There are several questions around Tier 4. For example, how long does it last? What happens when schools go back? Will it be extended to other areas, and if so, on what basis?
But truthfully, the key issue is he said he would not ‘cancel Christmas,’ made a party political point out of it, and has now had to eat his words - which shows he just doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.
Did he say he would not cancel Christmas technically?
Or did he just say he did not want to?
Today he is saying that although he doesn't want to, because of the news he got yesterday from Nervtag he has to.
He stuck to what he wanted probably longer than he should have is the issue. If Drakeford got crap for changing position in Wales, Boris cannot avoid it for the UK.
Scottish schools delayed in return after Christmas - online learning from the 11th and not back in the schools themselves until 18th.
It won’t make a difference here.
Because ultimately, the decisions in England are not about education, or children - they’re about the DfE and its ministers wanting to feel important and in charge.
Gav’s threats to take Greenwich to court look even more ludicrous now than they did at the time.
It’s a shame the council didn’t call his bluff and let the court see what the government had to say on Monday.
This forum is raging against Boris but those doing so are mainly those who are anti brexit or on the right
It will be interesting to see the polling on this over the next few days
A quick look suggests that only one person on this forum is raging about the Tier 4 for Christmas, the other negative comments are to do with the lack of consistency coming out of Downing Street.
There is lots of "Raging against Boris" being reposted from Twitter. But thankfully this forum is not Twitter.
There are several questions around Tier 4. For example, how long does it last? What happens when schools go back? Will it be extended to other areas, and if so, on what basis?
But truthfully, the key issue is he said he would not ‘cancel Christmas,’ made a party political point out of it, and has now had to eat his words - which shows he just doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.
Did he say he would not cancel Christmas technically?
Or did he just say he did not want to?
Today he is saying that although he doesn't want to, because of the news he got yesterday from Nervtag he has to.
He stuck to what he wanted probably longer than he should have is the issue. If Drakeford got crap for changing position in Wales, Boris cannot avoid it for the UK.
Boris is only PM of England in this context.
At least the argument this time is about how much notice he’s given, although I guess some will think he should cancelled Christmas for the whole of England.
Interesting that Drakeford is still allowing one day of relaxation despite Wales being in a bad place.
Again, the delay in implementing. Why midnight? 7 and a half hours is plenty of time to load up the car, flee London - and bring the new variant down to Devon for Christmas....
Could have already happened, before people knew it was a problem. Second home owners come & go all the time.
This forum is raging against Boris but those doing so are mainly those who are anti brexit or on the right
It will be interesting to see the polling on this over the next few days
A quick look suggests that only one person on this forum is raging about the Tier 4 for Christmas, the other negative comments are to do with the lack of consistency coming out of Downing Street.
There is lots of "Raging against Boris" being reposted from Twitter. But thankfully this forum is not Twitter.
There are several questions around Tier 4. For example, how long does it last? What happens when schools go back? Will it be extended to other areas, and if so, on what basis?
But truthfully, the key issue is he said he would not ‘cancel Christmas,’ made a party political point out of it, and has now had to eat his words - which shows he just doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.
Did he say he would not cancel Christmas technically?
Or did he just say he did not want to?
Today he is saying that although he doesn't want to, because of the news he got yesterday from Nervtag he has to.
He stuck to what he wanted probably longer than he should have is the issue. If Drakeford got crap for changing position in Wales, Boris cannot avoid it for the UK.
There is a large extent to which Boris has just caught up with many people who thought things were so serious that Christmas SHOULD have already been abandoned. They can understand why he didn't want to; but will give him some credit for having had the balls to do it, knowing it will be so unpopular.
"Folks, I really, really tried to protect your Christmas, but this thing...it's a bastard."
UK 27k NL12k - 49k if scaled up CZ 9k - 54k if scaled up
There will be other countries with other variants.
I also wonder if Belgium has had a more infectious variant.
And Sweden? They were doing relatively well until a couple of weeks or so ago.
Whatever you say about Sweden, they will be in a much stronger position that us when vaccines take effect.
Their economy is far, far less shattered and broken that ours is.
Sweden's economy contracted more than its neighbours. Why don't you say that we should copy Denmark?
Because it's not really about protecting the economy, it's about opposing the restrictions, even if other places have done better economically than Sweden, and even if Sweden's lack of restrictions is not as extreme as some are still pretending.
Sweden's economy will contract I think about 3.50% in 2020. USA 4.00%
Britain? 11.5% and counting. Deficit? 400bn. Debt? two trillion and counting. The deficit in particular is a total, total nightmare. How do we go from spending 400bn pounds a year more than we earn, to balancing the books, with a shattered and broken economy? With confidence utterly destroyed because businesses invested millions only to have governments shut them down again?
You can hide away from these numbers if you want. I'm not. And I reckon the voters aren't. They can see where government by protecting the NHS is getting them. Bankruptcy, penury, poverty insolvency.
This forum is raging against Boris but those doing so are mainly those who are anti brexit or on the right
It will be interesting to see the polling on this over the next few days
A quick look suggests that only one person on this forum is raging about the Tier 4 for Christmas, the other negative comments are to do with the lack of consistency coming out of Downing Street.
There is lots of "Raging against Boris" being reposted from Twitter. But thankfully this forum is not Twitter.
There are several questions around Tier 4. For example, how long does it last? What happens when schools go back? Will it be extended to other areas, and if so, on what basis?
But truthfully, the key issue is he said he would not ‘cancel Christmas,’ made a party political point out of it, and has now had to eat his words - which shows he just doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing.
Did he say he would not cancel Christmas technically?
Or did he just say he did not want to?
Today he is saying that although he doesn't want to, because of the news he got yesterday from Nervtag he has to.
He stuck to what he wanted probably longer than he should have is the issue. If Drakeford got crap for changing position in Wales, Boris cannot avoid it for the UK.
Boris is only PM of England in this context.
At least the argument this time is about how much notice he’s given, although I guess some will think he should cancelled Christmas for the whole of England.
Interesting that Drakeford is still allowing one day of relaxation despite Wales being in a bad place.
Indeed the South of Wales is every bit as bad as Kent.
It seems most people on here want to make political hay of this afternoon's annoucement.
I don't. I favoured a common-sense approach to Christmas, and the risk appetite of people for it was different plus, with schools closed and fewer working, the R would drop to compensate too.
No-one expected a far more contagious mutant strain to emerge. You can criticise him for being 2-4 days late, perhaps (and he might have wanted to exhaust every alternative first) but this isn't like the late lockdown 1 and very late lockdown 2.
It's just we're all much more pissed as we all wanted to see our families.
Well said, Casino.
Last thing on my mind right now is political point-scoring or putting the boot into Boris. Plenty of time for that later for those so inclined.
We have a crisis. We have to get through it. Late or not, the new restrictions make sense.
Has he mentioned unrestricted entry into the UK yet ?
Or does he still support it.
Why are you obsessed with the "foreign invader" aspect of the virus?
Just seems a bit odd to me. It's relevant, sure, but still.
As you say its relevant.
And Starmer has completely ignored it ?
Why is that ? Its been an open goal since March.
I genuinely don't know. Perhaps he doesn't see it as a priority compared to the things he IS majoring on.
What do you think the reason is?
I assume Starmer is some variant of freedom of movement / have to be 'open for business' / globalist sociopath / doesn't want to upset holiday obsessives.
There are plenty of them throughout the Westminster establishment.
Doubt it's quite that. Can't see what he'd gain. Could be more that international travel being low and us being no less virus struck than most other countries means that the domestic situation is the priority. Think that's more likely than Starmer being a globalist psychopath or scared of middle class skiers.
It seems most people on here want to make political hay of this afternoon's annoucement.
I don't. I favoured a common-sense approach to Christmas, and the risk appetite of people for it was different plus, with schools closed and fewer working, the R would drop to compensate too.
No-one expected a far more contagious mutant strain to emerge. You can criticise him for being 2-4 days late, perhaps (and he might have wanted to exhaust every alternative first) but this isn't like the late lockdown 1 and very late lockdown 2.
It's just we're all much more pissed as we all wanted to see our families.
UK 27k NL12k - 49k if scaled up CZ 9k - 54k if scaled up
There will be other countries with other variants.
I also wonder if Belgium has had a more infectious variant.
And Sweden? They were doing relatively well until a couple of weeks or so ago.
Whatever you say about Sweden, they will be in a much stronger position that us when vaccines take effect.
Their economy is far, far less shattered and broken that ours is.
Sweden's economy contracted more than its neighbours. Why don't you say that we should copy Denmark?
The graphic I saw showed Sweden's economy shrinking 3.5% in 2020. USA 4%
Britain? 11.5%
Our economy is getting destroyed, our budget deficit is almost unrecoverable inside a decade I reckon, if that.
Sweden might have sacrificed the golden years of some eighty year olds that we haven't, I don;t know.
But the outlook for the vast majority of their citizens is far, far, far better than ours. And that's a trade off I would have taken any day of the week.
The more sensible tory MPs are now realising than the sunlit uplands are not getting closer but further away. That they are the party that cancelled Christmas and saddled the country with a horrendous economic crisis that will take, well I shudder to think how long it will take to recover.
Surely the big question is how quickly the economy bounces back. I was surprised how relaxed Mervyn (credit crunch deficit hawk) King seemed about it.
If I'm right, and you're in a Tier 1 area like Cornwall, the Isle of Wight or Herefordshire, then I think provided all your family live within it you can still have a pretty normal Christmas - including staying overnight.
Rule of six still applies though.
For Tier 2, there's nothing to stop you driving over Christmas Eve and Boxing Day too, and going for a walk to the park or swings, and bring a hipflask and cold turkey sandwiches with you. Again in rules of six.
So it won't be *totally* shit for about a third of us.
She was very professional and came across well, she is certainly on top of her brief. Good to see her ramping up early rather than taking easy option and saying our levels were lower. Unbelievable the comparison between her and Boris. he sounded a bit better today but still cannot master being serious and always looks as if he will burst in to a smirk and start joking. He just cannot help trying to come across as chummy.
The SNP have to find a way to have Indyref2 in this parliament as they cannot afford to waste Johnson. He is an absolute machine at generating secessionist sentiment.
They can't, without UK government consent any referendum would be illegal and Unionist voters would boycott it.
The pro independence side won the 2017 Catalan independence referendum but without consent from the Spanish government it was illegal and Spanish Unionist voters boycotted it
If you are using Spain as an example of how a modern first world Government should behave then you have already lost the argument.
No, as Catalonia remains part of Spain
And support for independence has increased within the region. Way to go. Meanwhile the Spanish government are viewed as little better than Franco.
There is now a Socialist government in power in Spain who have started talks with Catalan nationalists.
However the PP conservative government that were in power in Spain in 2017 and refused a legal Catalan independence referendum are the sister party of the UK Tories, the Spanish Socialists are the sister party of UK Labour
Sadly it seems that both parties - PP and the Tories - are looking to be the grandchildren of Franco.
UK 27k NL12k - 49k if scaled up CZ 9k - 54k if scaled up
There will be other countries with other variants.
I also wonder if Belgium has had a more infectious variant.
And Sweden? They were doing relatively well until a couple of weeks or so ago.
Whatever you say about Sweden, they will be in a much stronger position that us when vaccines take effect.
Their economy is far, far less shattered and broken that ours is.
Sweden's economy contracted more than its neighbours. Why don't you say that we should copy Denmark?
The graphic I saw showed Sweden's economy shrinking 3.5% in 2020. USA 4%
Britain? 11.5%
Our economy is getting destroyed, our budget deficit is almost unrecoverable inside a decade I reckon, if that.
Sweden might have sacrificed the golden years of some eighty year olds that we haven't, I don;t know.
But the outlook for the vast majority of their citizens is far, far, far better than ours. And that's a trade off I would have taken any day of the week.
The more sensible tory MPs are now realising than the sunlit uplands are not getting closer but further away. That they are the party that cancelled Christmas and saddled the country with a horrendous economic crisis that will take, well I shudder to think how long it will take to recover.
Surely the big question is how quickly the economy bounces back. I was surprised how relaxed Mervyn (credit crunch deficit hawk) King seemed about it.
Indeed. Plus international comparisons are difficult in this kind of pandemic as countries measure things like services etc that have been disrupted differently.
At times like this straight international comparisons aren't necessarily comparing like with like.
Sturgeon can do what she wants within her powers as FM at Holyrood, it is merely a legal indyref2 she will not be allowed to hold as per the once in a generation 2014 vote
UK 27k NL12k - 49k if scaled up CZ 9k - 54k if scaled up
There will be other countries with other variants.
I also wonder if Belgium has had a more infectious variant.
And Sweden? They were doing relatively well until a couple of weeks or so ago.
Whatever you say about Sweden, they will be in a much stronger position that us when vaccines take effect.
Their economy is far, far less shattered and broken that ours is.
Sweden's economy contracted more than its neighbours. Why don't you say that we should copy Denmark?
Because it's not really about protecting the economy, it's about opposing the restrictions, even if other places have done better economically than Sweden, and even if Sweden's lack of restrictions is not as extreme as some are still pretending.
Sweden's economy will contract I think about 3.50% in 2020. USA 4.00%
Britain? 11.5% and counting. Deficit? 400bn. Debt? two trillion and counting. The deficit in particular is a total, total nightmare. How do we go from spending 400bn pounds a year more than we earn, to balancing the books, with a shattered and broken economy? With confidence utterly destroyed because businesses invested millions only to have governments shut them down again?
You can hide away from these numbers if you want. I'm not. And I reckon the voters aren't. They can see where government by protecting the NHS is getting them. Bankruptcy, penury, poverty insolvency.
Certainly going to be tough times ahead for millions of people.
Major is the last one I can remember being an improvement
Major an improvement on Thatcher.
Lol.
Surely you can accept Maggie wasn't to everyone's taste. In fairness she'd probably accept that herself. I believe Robin Butler said he regarded Major as the best negotiator amongst the Prime ministers he'd dealt with. Still took us into the ERM at a disastrous rate (as Chancellor)
This forum is raging against Boris but those doing so are mainly those who are anti brexit or on the right
It will be interesting to see the polling on this over the next few days
A quick look suggests that only one person on this forum is raging about the Tier 4 for Christmas, the other negative comments are to do with the lack of consistency coming out of Downing Street.
There is lots of "Raging against Boris" being reposted from Twitter. But thankfully this forum is not Twitter.
To be honest I think the reaction is very gentle given his attitude at PMQs a little over 48 hours ago.
Yes it's that. For me it is anyway. I support the restrictions. The choice was this or be tougher.
Has he mentioned unrestricted entry into the UK yet ?
Or does he still support it.
Why are you obsessed with the "foreign invader" aspect of the virus?
Just seems a bit odd to me. It's relevant, sure, but still.
As you say its relevant.
And Starmer has completely ignored it ?
Why is that ? Its been an open goal since March.
I genuinely don't know. Perhaps he doesn't see it as a priority compared to the things he IS majoring on.
What do you think the reason is?
I assume Starmer is some variant of freedom of movement / have to be 'open for business' / globalist sociopath / doesn't want to upset holiday obsessives.
There are plenty of them throughout the Westminster establishment.
Doubt it's quite that. Can't see what he'd gain. Could be more that international travel being low and us being no less virus struck than most other countries means that the domestic situation is the priority. Think that's more likely than Starmer being a globalist psychopath or scared of middle class skiers.
International travel was high enough for covid to be imported again during the summer.
Again, the delay in implementing. Why midnight? 7 and a half hours is plenty of time to load up the car, flee London - and bring the new variant down to Devon for Christmas....
I expect to see photos in papers tomorrow of traffic jams for exits out of London.
Happened in Paris...
IIRC correctly, the pictures of the Paris "exodus" turned out to be bullshit - normal traffic jams at commute times etc...
Major is the last one I can remember being an improvement
Major an improvement on Thatcher.
Lol.
Did you think Blair was an improvement on Major?
Thatcher was evil, country needed fixing but she was cold hearted and decided that it was the poor that would be used to fix it, heartless and evil to the core.
UK 27k NL12k - 49k if scaled up CZ 9k - 54k if scaled up
There will be other countries with other variants.
I also wonder if Belgium has had a more infectious variant.
And Sweden? They were doing relatively well until a couple of weeks or so ago.
Whatever you say about Sweden, they will be in a much stronger position that us when vaccines take effect.
Their economy is far, far less shattered and broken that ours is.
Sweden's economy contracted more than its neighbours. Why don't you say that we should copy Denmark?
Because it's not really about protecting the economy, it's about opposing the restrictions, even if other places have done better economically than Sweden, and even if Sweden's lack of restrictions is not as extreme as some are still pretending.
Sweden's economy will contract I think about 3.50% in 2020. USA 4.00%
Britain? 11.5% and counting. Deficit? 400bn. Debt? two trillion and counting. The deficit in particular is a total, total nightmare. How do we go from spending 400bn pounds a year more than we earn, to balancing the books, with a shattered and broken economy? With confidence utterly destroyed because businesses invested millions only to have governments shut them down again?
You can hide away from these numbers if you want. I'm not. And I reckon the voters aren't. They can see where government by protecting the NHS is getting them. Bankruptcy, penury, poverty insolvency.
Thankfully we have adults in charge and in opposition rather than your infantile and dangerous ideas.
Edit: I know some will, with justification, laugh at the description of Johnson as an adult but compared to the Covid deniers like Contrarian he is an intellectual Titan.
And that is the only time you will ever hear me refer to him in that way.
Surely we can’t be going for No Deal in 12 days under these circumstances?
Perfect timing for it.
Hardly loads of truckers huddling together seems the opposite to me.
Why should the truckers huddle together?
Why aren't trucks socially distanced?
If loads of trucks are going to clog up the roads then having all the locals at home keeping the streets clear otherwise seems pretty perfect.
They will get out and speak to their fellow workers. Can not imagine they will sit in their lorry alone for days.
They will need to socially distance.
And the roads should be clearer of any other traffic.
Of course. We Kent people don't have jobs. Don't go to hospitals. Don't go shopping for food. The M20 is unique in that no-one uses it to travel to and from work, or get to a hospital, or the supermarket. Why, just the other week when I had to travel to the William Harvey Hospital, I deliberately avoided the M20 to take the backroads through Wye and Brook just for the scenery.
Major is the last one I can remember being an improvement
Major an improvement on Thatcher.
Lol.
Surely you can accept Maggie wasn't to everyone's taste. In fairness she'd probably accept that herself. I believe Robin Butler said he regarded Major as the best negotiator amongst the Prime ministers he'd dealt with. Still took us into the ERM at a disastrous rate (as Chancellor)
Yes, but we need to apply some tests here.
If we're saying "worst PM" means I really really disagree with the policies they pursued then I'd put Heath first, Blair second, and Brown third, in the last 50 years.
If we're saying (which I think objectively we are) competent at the job then I'd put Thatcher right up there, with Blair a distant second, Cameron an even more distant third. Major as tolerable but not better. And Brown/May and Boris in the crap category.
Wilson and Callaghan are meh. Can't even be bothered to score their performance in the 70s.
She was very professional and came across well, she is certainly on top of her brief. Good to see her ramping up early rather than taking easy option and saying our levels were lower. Unbelievable the comparison between her and Boris. he sounded a bit better today but still cannot master being serious and always looks as if he will burst in to a smirk and start joking. He just cannot help trying to come across as chummy.
Sturgeon was a class above. Clear, concise and absolutely to the point.
It's ironic that some thought a no deal Brexit would lead to a national lockdown whereas now it looks as though we'll be heading to no deal in the middle of one already.
Excellent and measured presentation from Sturgeon, showing how it should be done. Only half the rates up here but no shill shallying , closing things down early regardless of her personal popularity. Great she is closing the border as well as curtailing Christmas meetings.
Yes, no shilly shallying, cancels Christmas as soon as Boris has given her cover to do so - real leadership.
UK 27k NL12k - 49k if scaled up CZ 9k - 54k if scaled up
There will be other countries with other variants.
I also wonder if Belgium has had a more infectious variant.
And Sweden? They were doing relatively well until a couple of weeks or so ago.
Whatever you say about Sweden, they will be in a much stronger position that us when vaccines take effect.
Their economy is far, far less shattered and broken that ours is.
Sweden's economy contracted more than its neighbours. Why don't you say that we should copy Denmark?
Because it's not really about protecting the economy, it's about opposing the restrictions, even if other places have done better economically than Sweden, and even if Sweden's lack of restrictions is not as extreme as some are still pretending.
Sweden's economy will contract I think about 3.50% in 2020. USA 4.00%
Britain? 11.5% and counting. Deficit? 400bn. Debt? two trillion and counting. The deficit in particular is a total, total nightmare. How do we go from spending 400bn pounds a year more than we earn, to balancing the books, with a shattered and broken economy? With confidence utterly destroyed because businesses invested millions only to have governments shut them down again?
You can hide away from these numbers if you want. I'm not. And I reckon the voters aren't. They can see where government by protecting the NHS is getting them. Bankruptcy, penury, poverty insolvency.
Certainly going to be tough times ahead for millions of people.
Everybody is taking a hit from covid. Of course they are.
Did ours have to be so bad? it absolutely did not. Might we have lost some more people over eighty who had some years left? maybe
But in the coming years, with covid gone, we will lose many, many hundreds of thousands more because of our shattered and broken state.
Maybe millions.
Nobody is talking about the numbers right now. Why? because they are almost unimaginably big.
It's ironic that some thought a no deal Brexit would lead to a national lockdown whereas now it looks as though we'll be heading to no deal in the middle of one already.
I reckon there'll be a third national lockdown for at least 2 weeks on 30th December.
There will be very good medical and political reasons for it.
I don't see why. This is November style restrictions not March style.
Professional sport was allowed in November.
Tier 5 presumably would be March style and would close sport.
I thought travel was banned though? I think that was the point, rather than banning sport per se.
Travel for work isn't banned. Professional athletes going to a fixture is for work.
Professional sport wouldn't be banned under any tier. The reason it stopped in March is because we were dealing with an unknown and they needed to put protocols in place, and to reassure the participants of their safety. Professional sport has probably a negligible effect on virus spread in itself.
Excellent and measured presentation from Sturgeon, showing how it should be done. Only half the rates up here but no shill shallying , closing things down early regardless of her personal popularity. Great she is closing the border as well as curtailing Christmas meetings.
Yes, no shilly shallying, cancels Christmas as soon as Boris has given her cover to do so - real leadership.
Eh? She hasn't cancelled Christmas. You're projecting.
Does the closed border by Scotland mean that subsidies from England have to stay in England?
Away you cretinous clown , think yourself lucky she did not say we would stop sending our money to fund England. England does not subsidise Scotland , it borrows money like a drunk man and then pretends it is Scotland that owes it. We send lots more money down south than we ever get back. So you can F8ck right off.
Again, the delay in implementing. Why midnight? 7 and a half hours is plenty of time to load up the car, flee London - and bring the new variant down to Devon for Christmas....
Could have already happened, before people knew it was a problem. Second home owners come & go all the time.
Define a second home owner. We had this conversation a while back. It's not as clearcut as some might think.
UK 27k NL12k - 49k if scaled up CZ 9k - 54k if scaled up
There will be other countries with other variants.
I also wonder if Belgium has had a more infectious variant.
And Sweden? They were doing relatively well until a couple of weeks or so ago.
Whatever you say about Sweden, they will be in a much stronger position that us when vaccines take effect.
Their economy is far, far less shattered and broken that ours is.
Sweden's economy contracted more than its neighbours. Why don't you say that we should copy Denmark?
Because it's not really about protecting the economy, it's about opposing the restrictions, even if other places have done better economically than Sweden, and even if Sweden's lack of restrictions is not as extreme as some are still pretending.
Sweden's economy will contract I think about 3.50% in 2020. USA 4.00%
Britain? 11.5% and counting. Deficit? 400bn. Debt? two trillion and counting. The deficit in particular is a total, total nightmare. How do we go from spending 400bn pounds a year more than we earn, to balancing the books, with a shattered and broken economy? With confidence utterly destroyed because businesses invested millions only to have governments shut them down again?
You can hide away from these numbers if you want. I'm not. And I reckon the voters aren't. They can see where government by protecting the NHS is getting them. Bankruptcy, penury, poverty insolvency.
Certainly going to be tough times ahead for millions of people.
Everybody is taking a hit from covid. Of course they are.
Did ours have to be so bad? it absolutely did not. Might we have lost some more people over eighty who had some years left? maybe
But in the coming years, with covid gone, we will lose many, many hundreds of thousands more because of our shattered and broken state.
Maybe millions.
Nobody is talking about the numbers right now. Why? because they are almost unimaginably big.
Because they are bullshit. Plucked from your own deranged imagination.
As far as i'm concerned the issue re: Johnson and the Govt isn't the decision itself - the new strain is justification enough for that. It is the complete lack of foresight that this might happen and ridiculous political posturing that preceded it.
Again, not a medical man, but from my schoolboy science and general knowledge a virus mutates through replication and evolution.
Therefore, the fewer infections and transmissions we have the less chance it has to "experiment" the f**k out of itself such that the bastard works out what's most effective.
That means we need to vaccinate everyone - quickly.
UK 27k NL12k - 49k if scaled up CZ 9k - 54k if scaled up
There will be other countries with other variants.
I also wonder if Belgium has had a more infectious variant.
And Sweden? They were doing relatively well until a couple of weeks or so ago.
Whatever you say about Sweden, they will be in a much stronger position that us when vaccines take effect.
Their economy is far, far less shattered and broken that ours is.
Sweden's economy contracted more than its neighbours. Why don't you say that we should copy Denmark?
Because it's not really about protecting the economy, it's about opposing the restrictions, even if other places have done better economically than Sweden, and even if Sweden's lack of restrictions is not as extreme as some are still pretending.
Sweden's economy will contract I think about 3.50% in 2020. USA 4.00%
Britain? 11.5% and counting. Deficit? 400bn. Debt? two trillion and counting. The deficit in particular is a total, total nightmare. How do we go from spending 400bn pounds a year more than we earn, to balancing the books, with a shattered and broken economy? With confidence utterly destroyed because businesses invested millions only to have governments shut them down again?
You can hide away from these numbers if you want. I'm not. And I reckon the voters aren't. They can see where government by protecting the NHS is getting them. Bankruptcy, penury, poverty insolvency.
Thankfully we have adults in charge and in opposition rather than your infantile and dangerous ideas.
Faced with the numbers, faced with awful economic situation we are really in, all you have left is insults. What's your idea on how to close our deficit after covid? what's your idea how we can ever start paying back the enormous debts we have racked up.
Or is it that you don't want to think about these because they are too frightening?
Sturgeon can do what she wants within her powers as FM at Holyrood, it is merely a legal indyref2 she will not be allowed to hold as per the once in a generation 2014 vote
UK 27k NL12k - 49k if scaled up CZ 9k - 54k if scaled up
There will be other countries with other variants.
I also wonder if Belgium has had a more infectious variant.
And Sweden? They were doing relatively well until a couple of weeks or so ago.
Whatever you say about Sweden, they will be in a much stronger position that us when vaccines take effect.
Their economy is far, far less shattered and broken that ours is.
Sweden's economy contracted more than its neighbours. Why don't you say that we should copy Denmark?
Because it's not really about protecting the economy, it's about opposing the restrictions, even if other places have done better economically than Sweden, and even if Sweden's lack of restrictions is not as extreme as some are still pretending.
Sweden's economy will contract I think about 3.50% in 2020. USA 4.00%
Britain? 11.5% and counting. Deficit? 400bn. Debt? two trillion and counting. The deficit in particular is a total, total nightmare. How do we go from spending 400bn pounds a year more than we earn, to balancing the books, with a shattered and broken economy? With confidence utterly destroyed because businesses invested millions only to have governments shut them down again?
You can hide away from these numbers if you want. I'm not. And I reckon the voters aren't. They can see where government by protecting the NHS is getting them. Bankruptcy, penury, poverty insolvency.
Certainly going to be tough times ahead for millions of people.
Everybody is taking a hit from covid. Of course they are.
Did ours have to be so bad? it absolutely did not. Might we have lost some more people over eighty who had some years left? maybe
But in the coming years, with covid gone, we will lose many, many hundreds of thousands more because of our shattered and broken state.
Maybe millions.
Nobody is talking about the numbers right now. Why? because they are almost unimaginably big.
Afraid I am not up for killing people so some punters can hold onto cash / make money. You should be ranting at the Tories who are filling their boots, their friends and families boots. They are making hay while they can at the expense of the public. There will be none of them poor and broken for sure, greedy , grasping evil gits.
Major is the last one I can remember being an improvement
Major an improvement on Thatcher.
Lol.
Did you think Blair was an improvement on Major?
Thatcher was evil, country needed fixing but she was cold hearted and decided that it was the poor that would be used to fix it, heartless and evil to the core.
Thatcher was our greatest postwar PM, took us from one of the lowest gdp per capitas in Europe in 1979 to one of the highest in 1990 and curbed union power and strikes.
She was also one of only 3 UK PMs in the last 100 years who can truly be said to have had global recognition on the world stage along with Winston Churchill and Tony Blair, possibly Boris as well but time will tell
I was going to say that the cynical-minded will probably dwell on the fact that they managed to get through most of the Christmas shopping period at least, although then I remembered that in many areas they actually only just re-opened non-essential shops anyway...
Major is the last one I can remember being an improvement
Major an improvement on Thatcher.
Lol.
Surely you can accept Maggie wasn't to everyone's taste. In fairness she'd probably accept that herself. I believe Robin Butler said he regarded Major as the best negotiator amongst the Prime ministers he'd dealt with. Still took us into the ERM at a disastrous rate (as Chancellor)
Given the letter of recrimination and begging he wrote to the Commission President in 1996 moaning about how he had been hoodwinked in the negotiations I would suggest he was no where near as good a negotiator as Butler believed.
Presumably when the site rages against Labour it’s all good sport right? I am utterly fed up with certain people here pretending they’re impartial.
You’re not, you’re just pro-Tory. I’m pro-Labour, at least I don’t pretend otherwise every week.
The difference is most people think for themselves.
I will attack the Tories when I disagree with them. I attacked something Boris said while he was still talking.
You, like HYUFD, seem to only care about the footballisation of it all. 'My team good your team bad'.
I agree with your last sentence. The same applies, as I'm sure you'll recognise, to Boris Johnson, who is constantly "footbalising" it, as in 'you want to cancel Xmas, you want to criminalise people', and his constant, embarrasing pronouncements that 'our team is world-beating, the best in the world'. He thrives on adversity, which is not well suited to dealing with Covid.
UK 27k NL12k - 49k if scaled up CZ 9k - 54k if scaled up
There will be other countries with other variants.
I also wonder if Belgium has had a more infectious variant.
And Sweden? They were doing relatively well until a couple of weeks or so ago.
Whatever you say about Sweden, they will be in a much stronger position that us when vaccines take effect.
Their economy is far, far less shattered and broken that ours is.
Sweden's economy contracted more than its neighbours. Why don't you say that we should copy Denmark?
Because it's not really about protecting the economy, it's about opposing the restrictions, even if other places have done better economically than Sweden, and even if Sweden's lack of restrictions is not as extreme as some are still pretending.
Sweden's economy will contract I think about 3.50% in 2020. USA 4.00%
Britain? 11.5% and counting. Deficit? 400bn. Debt? two trillion and counting. The deficit in particular is a total, total nightmare. How do we go from spending 400bn pounds a year more than we earn, to balancing the books, with a shattered and broken economy? With confidence utterly destroyed because businesses invested millions only to have governments shut them down again?
You can hide away from these numbers if you want. I'm not. And I reckon the voters aren't. They can see where government by protecting the NHS is getting them. Bankruptcy, penury, poverty insolvency.
Thankfully we have adults in charge and in opposition rather than your infantile and dangerous ideas.
Faced with the numbers, faced with awful economic situation we are really in, all you have left is insults. What's your idea on how to close our deficit after covid? what's your idea how we can ever start paying back the enormous debts we have racked up.
Or is it that you don't want to think about these because they are too frightening?
You are not open to any form of reasoned argument. You have shown that very clearly on here. So pointing out that your infantile views are not welcome seems to be the only logical response.
Surely we can’t be going for No Deal in 12 days under these circumstances?
Perfect timing for it.
Hardly loads of truckers huddling together seems the opposite to me.
Why should the truckers huddle together?
Why aren't trucks socially distanced?
If loads of trucks are going to clog up the roads then having all the locals at home keeping the streets clear otherwise seems pretty perfect.
They will get out and speak to their fellow workers. Can not imagine they will sit in their lorry alone for days.
They will need to socially distance.
And the roads should be clearer of any other traffic.
Of course. We Kent people don't have jobs. Don't go to hospitals. Don't go shopping for food. The M20 is unique in that no-one uses it to travel to and from work, or get to a hospital, or the supermarket. Why, just the other week when I had to travel to the William Harvey Hospital, I deliberately avoided the M20 to take the backroads through Wye and Brook just for the scenery.
Those issues are going to happen whenever the Brexit bandage that Kent voters overwhelmingly voted for finally gets pulled off.
In the event this disruption happens in January while you're in Tier 4 then those back roads will have less traffic to deal with than if it happened in normal circumstances.
Has he mentioned unrestricted entry into the UK yet ?
Or does he still support it.
Why are you obsessed with the "foreign invader" aspect of the virus?
Just seems a bit odd to me. It's relevant, sure, but still.
As you say its relevant.
And Starmer has completely ignored it ?
Why is that ? Its been an open goal since March.
I genuinely don't know. Perhaps he doesn't see it as a priority compared to the things he IS majoring on.
What do you think the reason is?
I assume Starmer is some variant of freedom of movement / have to be 'open for business' / globalist sociopath / doesn't want to upset holiday obsessives.
There are plenty of them throughout the Westminster establishment.
Doubt it's quite that. Can't see what he'd gain. Could be more that international travel being low and us being no less virus struck than most other countries means that the domestic situation is the priority. Think that's more likely than Starmer being a globalist psychopath or scared of middle class skiers.
International travel was high enough for covid to be imported again during the summer.
One factor in the pick up since August. Many others. Thing is, no mixing and no travel anywhere on the planet is best for virus suppression. We know that.
Again, the delay in implementing. Why midnight? 7 and a half hours is plenty of time to load up the car, flee London - and bring the new variant down to Devon for Christmas....
Could have already happened, before people knew it was a problem. Second home owners come & go all the time.
Define a second home owner. We had this conversation a while back. It's not as clearcut as some might think.
Definition of a term isn't the point. The point is the movement of people.
I was thinking of near neighbours of mine, who returned to their home in the south east a couple of days ago after spending a few days here. No reason why they shouldn't have come & gone as they pleased. They aren't the only ones by a long chalk.
UK 27k NL12k - 49k if scaled up CZ 9k - 54k if scaled up
There will be other countries with other variants.
I also wonder if Belgium has had a more infectious variant.
And Sweden? They were doing relatively well until a couple of weeks or so ago.
Whatever you say about Sweden, they will be in a much stronger position that us when vaccines take effect.
Their economy is far, far less shattered and broken that ours is.
Sweden's economy contracted more than its neighbours. Why don't you say that we should copy Denmark?
Because it's not really about protecting the economy, it's about opposing the restrictions, even if other places have done better economically than Sweden, and even if Sweden's lack of restrictions is not as extreme as some are still pretending.
The frustrating part of the entire conversation with them is this: - Norway, Finland, and Denmark have not only done much better on protecting lives and protecting their economy, they have, by going harder earlier, put themselves in a position to have FEWER restrictions since then than Sweden!
People have already made plans for christmas. Its easier not to make a plan than cancel plans so I think a high percentage are going to be saying sod it and still going ahead frankly so I doubt this tightening is going to go anywhere near denting the rise in cases. Prepare for further measures in january
Significant numbers of people have been saying "sod it " to the regulations since March which is a major factor in explaining why we are where we are.
When the history of this period is written I suspect that what historians will find incredible is why, when faced with a pandemic that is decimating the world economy and killing thousands, so many human beings failed to take it seriously and either through stupidity or selfishness acted totally irresponsibly.
Who knows where this might end but I suspect we will look back at people marching round protesting about being asked to wear a mask and think WTF were they thinking.
Surely we can’t be going for No Deal in 12 days under these circumstances?
Perfect timing for it.
Hardly loads of truckers huddling together seems the opposite to me.
Why should the truckers huddle together?
Why aren't trucks socially distanced?
If loads of trucks are going to clog up the roads then having all the locals at home keeping the streets clear otherwise seems pretty perfect.
They will get out and speak to their fellow workers. Can not imagine they will sit in their lorry alone for days.
They will need to socially distance.
And the roads should be clearer of any other traffic.
Of course. We Kent people don't have jobs. Don't go to hospitals. Don't go shopping for food. The M20 is unique in that no-one uses it to travel to and from work, or get to a hospital, or the supermarket. Why, just the other week when I had to travel to the William Harvey Hospital, I deliberately avoided the M20 to take the backroads through Wye and Brook just for the scenery.
Those issues are going to happen whenever the Brexit bandage that Kent voters overwhelmingly voted for finally gets pulled off.
In the event this disruption happens in January while you're in Tier 4 then those back roads will have less traffic to deal with than if it happened in normal circumstances.
Disappointing though hardly unexpected. The Sun had most of the key points last evening. In a sense, it's more Tier 3+ than Tier 4. It's November rather than March in terms of restrictions. Work continues though given the time of year that won't be too significant - the construction industry for example has already shut up shop.
We'll have the King George at Kempton next Saturday presumably but it's puzzling because while it could be an elite sport, I don't see how Owners can attend a Tier 4 venue when we're not supposed to be travelling.
As always, there are contradictions and anomalies aplenty to be resolved - part of me thinks if we were serious about controlling the virus, we'd have had March-style restrictions but there seems no willingness to go that far at this time. It remains to be seen whether those areas currently outside Tier 4 will be joining us in the near future.
I share the view there's no point now indulging in political point-scoring, That said, I'd like to think at some point in the future there will be a proper accounting for and scrutiny of decisions taken and I think the decision not to close borders or have arriving passengers tested in the spring looks foolhardy and requires explanation. The move of infected elderly patients from hospitals back to care homes also looks questionable at the very least.
I'll be honest - if the price of this scrutiny is two or three political careers, that's a price well worth paying. I can excuse any politician who struggles with an unforeseeable event but if a decision is taken in light of clear advice to the contrary, that requires explanation.
Not that we should welcome the new strain, but without it as a justification which does not blame the public or the government (no one can be blamed for a new strain appearing), I wonder if Boris would have taken this action, no matter the cost.
The right outcome which should have been set in stone ten weeks ago
Why? Ten weeks ago we didn't know how the virus would progress. Plenty of other countries have just announced Christmas restrictions
I think that the majority of the public would have accepted a late lockdown as the circumstances have clearly changed.
Unfortunately our clown of a PM just couldn't stop himself scoring cheap shots off Starmer 48 hours ago for suggesting the action he has now taken himself and almost certainly knew he would take at the time he was attacking the LOTO.
Boris wanted to the "saviour of Christmas". He's vacuous, he doesn't think beyond the next sound-bite. He's entirely unsuited to governing a country in normal times let alone the times we face right now. Much of the talent in the Conservative Party has been sidelined and replaced by a third-rate nodding-donkey Cabinet of all the Brexit-talents. Heaven help us all.
Again, the delay in implementing. Why midnight? 7 and a half hours is plenty of time to load up the car, flee London - and bring the new variant down to Devon for Christmas....
Because there may have been social unrest at train stations and elsewhere if people were immediately prevented from travelling.
Comments
You simply cannot pretend that the decision makers are not the ones taking the decisions just because you dislike the people giving the advice, even if it can be hard to go against that advice. It remains advice.
Be mad at Whitty and Valance if you like, they will not be infallible. But be mad at them for what they are, and not for what they are not. It simply undermines any legitimate criticism to include illegitimate criticisms that they are in command. They are not.
Because ultimately, the decisions in England are not about education, or children - they’re about the DfE and its ministers wanting to feel important and in charge.
Hundreds of Pfizer vaccine doses are 'RUINED' after fridge storing vials at -70C in GP surgery in Northamptonshire 'failed' forcing clinic to halt vaccinations
Though I was not going to go anywhere at Christmas anyway
Britain? 11.5%
Our economy is getting destroyed, our budget deficit is almost unrecoverable inside a decade I reckon, if that.
Sweden might have sacrificed the golden years of some eighty year olds that we haven't, I don;t know.
But the outlook for the vast majority of their citizens is far, far, far better than ours. And that's a trade off I would have taken any day of the week.
The more sensible tory MPs are now realising than the sunlit uplands are not getting closer but further away. That they are the party that cancelled Christmas and saddled the country with a horrendous economic crisis that will take, well I shudder to think how long it will take to recover.
For my personal circumstances I am delighted.
I don't. I favoured a common-sense approach to Christmas, and the risk appetite of people for it was different plus, with schools closed and fewer working, the R would drop to compensate too.
No-one expected a far more contagious mutant strain to emerge. You can criticise him for being 2-4 days late, perhaps (and he might have wanted to exhaust every alternative first) but this isn't like the late lockdown 1 and very late lockdown 2.
It's just we're all much more pissed as we all wanted to see our families.
They really need to be sure they enforce these things now.
It’s a shame the council didn’t call his bluff and let the court see what the government had to say on Monday.
At least the argument this time is about how much notice he’s given, although I guess some will think he should cancelled Christmas for the whole of England.
Interesting that Drakeford is still allowing one day of relaxation despite Wales being in a bad place.
"Folks, I really, really tried to protect your Christmas, but this thing...it's a bastard."
Britain? 11.5% and counting. Deficit? 400bn. Debt? two trillion and counting. The deficit in particular is a total, total nightmare. How do we go from spending 400bn pounds a year more than we earn, to balancing the books, with a shattered and broken economy? With confidence utterly destroyed because businesses invested millions only to have governments shut them down again?
You can hide away from these numbers if you want. I'm not. And I reckon the voters aren't. They can see where government by protecting the NHS is getting them. Bankruptcy, penury, poverty insolvency.
Last thing on my mind right now is political point-scoring or putting the boot into Boris. Plenty of time for that later for those so inclined.
We have a crisis. We have to get through it. Late or not, the new restrictions make sense.
We'll sweat the small stuff later.
From case data
From hospitalisation data
Can not imagine they will sit in their lorry alone for days.
Rule of six still applies though.
For Tier 2, there's nothing to stop you driving over Christmas Eve and Boxing Day too, and going for a walk to the park or swings, and bring a hipflask and cold turkey sandwiches with you. Again in rules of six.
So it won't be *totally* shit for about a third of us.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9070685/Boris-cancels-Xmas-England-amid-mutant-Covid-fears.html
Lol.
And the roads should be clearer of any other traffic.
At times like this straight international comparisons aren't necessarily comparing like with like.
Edit: didn't mean I agreed with his *politics* but he was more skilled and competent at the job, and he got better with time.
Edit: I know some will, with justification, laugh at the description of Johnson as an adult but compared to the Covid deniers like Contrarian he is an intellectual Titan.
And that is the only time you will ever hear me refer to him in that way.
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1340342881521971206?s=20
If we're saying "worst PM" means I really really disagree with the policies they pursued then I'd put Heath first, Blair second, and Brown third, in the last 50 years.
If we're saying (which I think objectively we are) competent at the job then I'd put Thatcher right up there, with Blair a distant second, Cameron an even more distant third. Major as tolerable but not better. And Brown/May and Boris in the crap category.
Wilson and Callaghan are meh. Can't even be bothered to score their performance in the 70s.
Just leaving this here.
Did ours have to be so bad? it absolutely did not. Might we have lost some more people over eighty who had some years left? maybe
But in the coming years, with covid gone, we will lose many, many hundreds of thousands more because of our shattered and broken state.
Maybe millions.
Nobody is talking about the numbers right now. Why? because they are almost unimaginably big.
https://twitter.com/SteveBakerHW/status/1340345462050713600?s=20
https://twitter.com/SteveBakerHW/status/1340345536331853829?s=20
https://twitter.com/SteveBakerHW/status/1340347928892887041?s=20
https://twitter.com/SteveBakerHW/status/1340353061978574848?s=20
There will be very good medical and political reasons for it.
To join the chorus of grumbles, it is really absurd treating all of Wales the same.
Gwynedd would be in Tier 1 or Tier 2 if in England. Instead, we have been placed in Full Lockdown
Ynys Mon has a rate lower than Cornwall which is in Tier 1. Instead, Ynys Mon is in Full Lockdown.
Neville Chamberlain, David Lloyd George, Winston Churchill, Clement Attlee and Margaret Thatcher all raise eyebrows.
Therefore, the fewer infections and transmissions we have the less chance it has to "experiment" the f**k out of itself such that the bastard works out what's most effective.
That means we need to vaccinate everyone - quickly.
Starve it to death.
Or is it that you don't want to think about these because they are too frightening?
She was also one of only 3 UK PMs in the last 100 years who can truly be said to have had global recognition on the world stage along with Winston Churchill and Tony Blair, possibly Boris as well but time will tell
In the event this disruption happens in January while you're in Tier 4 then those back roads will have less traffic to deal with than if it happened in normal circumstances.
I was thinking of near neighbours of mine, who returned to their home in the south east a couple of days ago after spending a few days here. No reason why they shouldn't have come & gone as they pleased. They aren't the only ones by a long chalk.
- Norway, Finland, and Denmark have not only done much better on protecting lives and protecting their economy, they have, by going harder earlier, put themselves in a position to have FEWER restrictions since then than Sweden!
When the history of this period is written I suspect that what historians will find incredible is why, when faced with a pandemic that is decimating the world economy and killing thousands, so many human beings failed to take it seriously and either through stupidity or selfishness acted totally irresponsibly.
Who knows where this might end but I suspect we will look back at people marching round protesting about being asked to wear a mask and think WTF were they thinking.
Disappointing though hardly unexpected. The Sun had most of the key points last evening. In a sense, it's more Tier 3+ than Tier 4. It's November rather than March in terms of restrictions. Work continues though given the time of year that won't be too significant - the construction industry for example has already shut up shop.
We'll have the King George at Kempton next Saturday presumably but it's puzzling because while it could be an elite sport, I don't see how Owners can attend a Tier 4 venue when we're not supposed to be travelling.
As always, there are contradictions and anomalies aplenty to be resolved - part of me thinks if we were serious about controlling the virus, we'd have had March-style restrictions but there seems no willingness to go that far at this time. It remains to be seen whether those areas currently outside Tier 4 will be joining us in the near future.
I share the view there's no point now indulging in political point-scoring, That said, I'd like to think at some point in the future there will be a proper accounting for and scrutiny of decisions taken and I think the decision not to close borders or have arriving passengers tested in the spring looks foolhardy and requires explanation. The move of infected elderly patients from hospitals back to care homes also looks questionable at the very least.
I'll be honest - if the price of this scrutiny is two or three political careers, that's a price well worth paying. I can excuse any politician who struggles with an unforeseeable event but if a decision is taken in light of clear advice to the contrary, that requires explanation.
I think that the majority of the public would have accepted a late lockdown as the circumstances have clearly changed.
Unfortunately our clown of a PM just couldn't stop himself scoring cheap shots off Starmer 48 hours ago for suggesting the action he has now taken himself and almost certainly knew he would take at the time he was attacking the LOTO.
Boris wanted to the "saviour of Christmas". He's vacuous, he doesn't think beyond the next sound-bite. He's entirely unsuited to governing a country in normal times let alone the times we face right now. Much of the talent in the Conservative Party has been sidelined and replaced by a third-rate nodding-donkey Cabinet of all the Brexit-talents. Heaven help us all.