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The other side of the bet. The ethics of political gambling. – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Surely we could combine this with other matters - send the oldies into battle against the Scots/French/Spanish?
    There was a novel of the seventies, I think, a sort of Erewhon-like satire, where it was precisely the oldies that were sent over the top with rifles and in cheap biplanes. I forget the title and author - could it he Travels in Nihilon by Alan Sillitoe?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    HYUFD said:
    The alt right twitter mob accuses at least one of the behavioural people of being a 40-year member of the British Communist Party !!

    No wonder 'Project Fear' went so well
  • Is that what you meant when you replied to;
    "Sorry but in what universe can 80 somethings depend upon 'decades' of life."
    With;
    "This one."

    Because that sounds to me like you think that 80 somethings have a life expectancy over 100
    No. Since I think it's fair to call 10+ years decades.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,587

    In my family, the kids are getting the presents, the tree etc.

    No big family get together - but hey, a big family meal isn't that impossible to arrange, in say June.

    I am having a lot of trouble seeing this as other than a bit annoying.

    Mind you I *have* run out of Grand Cru. So I am left with Premier Cru for Christmas. And some ancient Tokaji...

    Can I get compensation?
    Premier Cru and ancient Tokaji some like reasonable compensation to me!
    I have several email adverts from local, and national, wine merchants, promising delivery before Christmas. Plus elder son has sent us 6 bottles of what looks like quite decent S. Italian red. And I picked up what appears to be a pleasant port yesterday.
    Plan ATM is that we meet Eldest Granddaughter (aged 31) and her father on Christmas Day, approx 40 mins. drive away, in the same county.
    Even if we can't keep to the plan, we should be able to manage over the festive season.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Not. A. Fact. Yet.

    Our lives are being destroyed by scientific supposition, and modelling.

    This
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,830
    moonshine said:

    Where is your evidence? Maybe you’re right. Maybe you’re wrong. Locking down a bunch of infected people with their family to “save the nhs” seems to be counter even to government’s very narrow goal of reducing death with covid. Taking infected people at gunpoint to a military “hospital” as was conducted in China? Now that’s a different thing. Locking your borders before there is widespread seeding as in NZ? Ditto.

    Feels to me we are pissing on our own foot, celebrating and mourning the natural ebbs and flows of the virus through the seasons and each cluster increase and burnout the way the ancients prayed to the sun.

    Show me EVIDENCE that lockdowns as practiced in western democracies makes a blind bit of difference.
    The evidence is the Projection of what would would have occurred in the absence of Distancing Measures. It was based on what was actually happening, plus what was known of the virulence and velocity of the virus. There was not a precise certainty but there was ample to justify the Measures. I can't show you the counterfactual complete and utter disaster and that's great news. Because of the Measures it didn't happen. Don't get me wrong, there's lots of valid debate to be had on the detail of what was done by us and by all the various other countries, but on the Big Picture, horrible new virus, take Distancing Measures, hunker down, make and administer vaccine, normalize, there is not. It simply had to be done, more or less, like this.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,274
    edited December 2020
    Carnyx said:

    There was a novel of the seventies, I think, a sort of Erewhon-like satire, where it was precisely the oldies that were sent over the top with rifles and in cheap biplanes. I forget the title and author - could it he Travels in Nihilon by Alan Sillitoe?
    Found what I was looking for - 1:30 is what you want. For some reason the time tag isn't working

    https://youtu.be/NBHHFnUqo5o?t=153
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,045
    HYUFD said:

    That is slightly misleading as many of those who will have died are over 80 and would have died even without Covid
    Did you know that in April, in the UK, more than a third of all deaths in the age 20-29 bracket in that month were covid?

    Because while a lot fewer people in their twenties die of covid, this is put into the context that a lot fewer people in their twenties die of anything at all. So death rates in that echelon jumped 50% and that jump was covid deaths.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,587

    Is that what you meant when you replied to;
    "Sorry but in what universe can 80 somethings depend upon 'decades' of life."
    With;
    "This one."

    Because that sounds to me like you think that 80 somethings have a life expectancy over 100
    At 82 I'm hoping for a bit more, but sometimes I wonder.......
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620
    In other news, a bunch of Tory monkeys with typewriters can't sort out the paperwork in time for people to use it when the aforesaid lower primates insist it will be needed.

    https://twitter.com/ITVJoel/status/1340295959272669185

    So much for the glorious Union.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,137
    Scott_xP said:
    Ordinary PB’ers (if such a thing is possible) see stuff coming days before this desperately inept government does. That says it all.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    Well he wasn't actually at the battle. We think he was camping nearby and went over to complain about the noise.
    I think it may be time for you to move on.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Don't be a **** Scott.

    Why is anyone on the motorway already? Given the window hasn't started yet?

    And if the new strain is the reason then that is new information. When facts change people can change their minds.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,137

    Premier Cru and ancient Tokaji some like reasonable compensation to me!
    I have several email adverts from local, and national, wine merchants, promising delivery before Christmas. Plus elder son has sent us 6 bottles of what looks like quite decent S. Italian red. And I picked up what appears to be a pleasant port yesterday.
    Plan ATM is that we meet Eldest Granddaughter (aged 31) and her father on Christmas Day, approx 40 mins. drive away, in the same county.
    Even if we can't keep to the plan, we should be able to manage over the festive season.
    Nero d’avola, aglianico, negroamaro - south Italy produces some of the best value reds nowadays. The time when what was on the label bore little relation to what might be in the bottle are thankfully behind us.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    Kent - Toilet & mutant plague centre of England.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Found what I was looking for - 1:30 is what you want. For some reason the time tag isn't working

    https://youtu.be/NBHHFnUqo5o?t=153
    Where on earth - and when - was that made?! I haven't seen anything like it since that train safety video called Sports Day.

    And how on earth has that not been resurrected in recent years with Brexit looming?!
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,045

    That's provably untrue. Average life expectancy is only a couple of years over 80.
    Untrue.

    For an eighty-year-old male, it’s 9 years, for an eighty-year-old female, it’s 10 years.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/articles/lifeexpectancycalculator/2019-06-07
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,864

    The alt right twitter mob accuses at least one of the behavioural people of being a 40-year member of the British Communist Party !!

    No wonder 'Project Fear' went so well
    The alt right is full of ex-communists.


  • Untrue.

    For an eighty-year-old male, it’s 9 years, for an eighty-year-old female, it’s 10 years.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/articles/lifeexpectancycalculator/2019-06-07

    See this @Philip_Thompson ? 9 or 10 years for an 80 year old. Not decades for eighty somethings.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,274
    Carnyx said:

    Where on earth - and when - was that made?! I haven't seen anything like it since that train safety video called Sports Day.

    And how on earth has that not been resurrected in recent years with Brexit looming?!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whoops_Apocalypse

    There have been a number of Brexit related spoof videos based on it...
  • Just got a message from the school that our children need to isolate for ten days from the 15th due to a positive test for one of their classmates.

    So isolating on Christmas either way for us now.

    Sorry to hear that.

    This is why some schools and MATs argued for making the final week of term online.

    And the government went all ten tonne gorilla on them.

    Foolishness or arrogance form the government would be bad enough. It's when they are foolish and arrogant at the same time that it really sucks.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Untrue.

    For an eighty-year-old male, it’s 9 years, for an eighty-year-old female, it’s 10 years.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/articles/lifeexpectancycalculator/2019-06-07
    OK. lets say you are right.

    Ask yourself what the human cost of preserving those years in their entirety are, years that no generation in history has ever had.

    They are massively, massively too high. Generations are going to have their entire lives blighted by the consequences.

    People talk in this pandemic about selfishness. That's selfishness right there, writ large.


  • See this @Philip_Thompson ? 9 or 10 years for an 80 year old. Not decades for eighty somethings.
    10 is a decade. We are talking an order of magnitude of decades not a single year.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,577

    0 - 7 now
    That patches up their goal difference!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,864

    See this @Philip_Thompson ? 9 or 10 years for an 80 year old. Not decades for eighty somethings.
    If they lose on average a decade each then it's reasonable to say 'decades' to rebut the tendentious suggestion that they would all be dead anyway.
  • Don't be a **** Scott.

    Why is anyone on the motorway already? Given the window hasn't started yet?

    And if the new strain is the reason then that is new information. When facts change people can change their minds.
    That argument would be fine. Had Shagger not stood up in the Commons trying to score political points that the opposition wanted to Cancel Christmas and only He would Save Christmas.

    Oh dear oh dear. Perhaps - as I keep suggesting to that knobber from Essicks - this virus has no interest in party political games. We could see a mile away that the big Christmas lockdown was irresponsibly dangerous. And yet having spent weeks setting this up - legislation, cancelled roadworks and rail engineering, cash for additional coach and rail seats, a media campaign about how good old Boris was saving Christmas - he'll have to pull the plug at the last minute.
  • That patches up their goal difference!
    I loved the fact that at 0-5 there was an opportunity to rest players with a substitution so who did Klopp bring on?

    On came Salah who got the sixth and seventh goals.

    Ruthless.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302
    TimT said:
    I accept what you say about journos is true @TimT but can you specify which part of Peston's tweets you object to?
  • 10 is a decade. We are talking an order of magnitude of decades not a single year.
    I never supported the contention that 80 year olds had 1 or 2 years of life expectancy. I just thought that saying they had "decadeS" was sloppy and inaccurate.
  • The alt right is full of ex-communists.
    What slightly puzzles me is that I don't think I've ever seen any of the grisly Living Marxism crew asked about their past or current attitudes to Marxism. Perhaps Liz Truss can make a speech asking some searching questions..
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Johnson tries to please everybody.

    He ends up pleasing nobody.

    All side of this argument are now utterly infuriated by what he is doing.

    As a conservative PM you are not doing your job if certain people in the commentariat are not permanently incensed.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,746

    Don't be a **** Scott.

    Why is anyone on the motorway already? Given the window hasn't started yet?

    And if the new strain is the reason then that is new information. When facts change people can change their minds.
    It'[s not new. According to the BMJ this "new strain" was found in September.

    "Nick Loman, professor of microbial genomics and bioinformation at the University of Birmingham, told a briefing by the Science Media Centre on 15 December that the variant was first spotted in late September and now accounts for 20% of viruses sequenced in Norfolk, 10% in Essex, and 3% in Suffolk. “There are no data to suggest it had been imported from abroad, so it is likely to have evolved in the UK,” he said."

    https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4857
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,577
    Scott_xP said:
    Like my Gran used to say "I want never gets....."
  • I never supported the contention that 80 year olds had 1 or 2 years of life expectancy. I just thought that saying they had "decadeS" was sloppy and inaccurate.
    It's not. 10+ is an order of magnitude of decades. 11+ is undeniably decades, 11 is 1.1 decades.

    There is no reason why decades has to be a minimum of 2+ decades.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    DougSeal said:

    It'[s not new. According to the BMJ this "new strain" was found in September.

    "Nick Loman, professor of microbial genomics and bioinformation at the University of Birmingham, told a briefing by the Science Media Centre on 15 December that the variant was first spotted in late September and now accounts for 20% of viruses sequenced in Norfolk, 10% in Essex, and 3% in Suffolk. “There are no data to suggest it had been imported from abroad, so it is likely to have evolved in the UK,” he said."

    https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4857
    Well if Mr quicksilver quickstrain is that quick he will have already bolted.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,154

    Oh dear oh dear. Perhaps - as I keep suggesting to that knobber from Essicks - this virus has no interest in party political games. We could see a mile away that the big Christmas lockdown was irresponsibly dangerous. And yet having spent weeks setting this up - legislation, cancelled roadworks and rail engineering, cash for additional coach and rail seats, a media campaign about how good old Boris was saving Christmas - he'll have to pull the plug at the last minute.

    This is not difficult.

    Everything BoZo says is not true.

    Everything he does is a mistake.

    One of the many reasons Brexit is such a monumental clusterfuck.
  • Scott_xP said:
    It was.

    You're such a hate filled hypocrite you don't even realise your simultaneously quoting people complaining he is too quick to respond and too slow to do so.

    Consistency is a good thing for normal circumstances, not necessarily crisis management. Crisis management needs adaptability and quick thinking and quick responses.

    It need whackamole.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,575
    edited December 2020

    Just got a message from the school that our children need to isolate for ten days from the 15th due to a positive test for one of their classmates.

    So isolating on Christmas either way for us now.

    I had to deliver that message to several students last week.

    It was not fun.

    You have my sympathy. I hope your family stay well.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,864
    "Things don't happen just because Prime Ministers are very keen on them! Neville Chamberlain was very keen on peace..."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    What slightly puzzles me is that I don't think I've ever seen any of the grisly Living Marxism crew asked about their past or current attitudes to Marxism. Perhaps Liz Truss can make a speech asking some searching questions..
    Would Adam Tomkins MSP perhaps be another good choice? I don't think he was in the CPGB, M-L or otherwise, but he was a leftie republican was he not?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,830
    edited December 2020

    So you aren't prepared to acknowledge where the EU are now or where they were months ago. Got you.

    So let's rephrase. If the EU agree a deal with a different position to what they're saying month ago then that was not the deal available months ago - agreed?
    The question must be worded neutrally and therefore will be -

    When the deal is announced, does it look significantly better for the UK than the evidence indicates was achievable earlier in the year?

    I look forward to you arguing the case for "Yes". You will, I think, need to strain every sinew to fail with honour. But one mustn't pre-judge.
  • x

    It's not. 10+ is an order of magnitude of decades. 11+ is undeniably decades, 11 is 1.1 decades.

    There is no reason why decades has to be a minimum of 2+ decades.
    We just established that it's 9 or 10 years, not 11. If you want to call 101 years "centuries", then go for it but you'll be wrong.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,045

    OK. lets say you are right.

    Ask yourself what the human cost of preserving those years in their entirety are, years that no generation in history has ever had.

    They are massively, massively too high. Generations are going to have their entire lives blighted by the consequences.

    People talk in this pandemic about selfishness. That's selfishness right there, writ large.
    The economic and human costs of NOT doing that are, as has been explained to you time and time again, as the IMF have said, as economist after economist have said, as the entire branch of study of pandemic economics have shown, WORSE than the route of restrictions and lockdown.

    You just don't want to accept it.
    Unfortunately reality doesn't care what you want to accept.
  • The problem is that in politics we expect people to be definite even when there is uncertainty. As another example, we wanted politicians to guarantee a Brexit deal when the outcome is subject to negotiation and therefore inherently uncertain. If Boris had said, "we don't know if you are going to be able to have Christmas, these are the current plans but be prepared for them to change" he would have been ridiculed. But it would have been a correct description of the circumstances.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,368
    edited December 2020
    IanB2 said:

    Ordinary PB’ers (if such a thing is possible) see stuff coming days before this desperately inept government does. That says it all.

    I'd wait and see what is said later, as I don't think anyone here was saying a new mutation of the virus was increasing transmission. If that's what NERVTAG have concluded this is a significant new event, and not something we could have seen coming, and it's bad news for at lot more than just the South East.
  • ydoethur said:

    I had to deliver that message to several students last week.

    It was not fun.

    You have my sympathy. I hope your family stay well.
    Thanks.

    We are ok. We had already decided we weren't seeing anyone old, but were planning on seeing my sister in law on the 23rd. I'm not going to lose any sleep about missing out on that.

    My thoughts are with whichever of her classmates is positive. We are healthy even if now stuck at home, I more hope they and their family aren't suffering. It's not fun being sick at Christmas.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,746

    It was.

    You're such a hate filled hypocrite you don't even realise your simultaneously quoting people complaining he is too quick to respond and too slow to do so.

    Consistency is a good thing for normal circumstances, not necessarily crisis management. Crisis management needs adaptability and quick thinking and quick responses.

    It need whackamole.
    This new varient of Covid was identified in late September and, it appears, was beginning to spread rapidly out of the Kent side of the Thames Estuary from late November. Yet as late as PMQs on Wednesday the buffoon the gods have afflicted upon the 57% of us that did not vote for his party was taunting the Leader of the Opposition for doing what he is now proposing. That is not adaptability. That is poor leadership. Poor leadership that is costing lives. Even this regionalised Tier 4 is too late. R is going up everywhere, the genie is out of the bottle.
  • My one sadness is that I can't do my traditional Boxing day ritual - serve my mother-in-law her favourite wine with the main course. Which is sweet white wine.

    She knows nothing of wine, bless her. Just likes what she likes.

    I give her the finest desert wines, without telling her what they are. The price would horrify her, I think, since she grew up very poor.

    The other side of that is the family wine snob has to watch this, and hold his tongue. Otherwise he gets none, when desert comes.....
    The wine snob is wrong. Fine Sauternes and Barsac can pair very well with some meat or poultry courses, especially if the dishes are quite rich. In Bordeaux they do this quite often, especially at the sweet-wine chateaux.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,045
    Looking at the ONS death stats per age, here's an approximate distribution of 101 deaths from covid at given ages:

    28
    37
    42
    46
    49
    52
    53
    55
    56
    57
    58
    60
    61
    62
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    91
    91
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    91
    92
    92
    92
    92
    93
    93
    93
    93
    94

    The mean number of years lost on that distribution is 13.1 years of life, ranging from 4 years to 59 years.

    20% would lose multiple decades (20 years+)
    (10% would lose 30 years+)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,830
    Scott_xP said:
    Johnson's handling of this - and the man himself - is becoming a rank embarrassment. The mix of hubris and incompetence is quite astonishing. I have big bets on him staying the course but I hope I lose them.
  • Found what I was looking for - 1:30 is what you want. For some reason the time tag isn't working

    https://youtu.be/NBHHFnUqo5o?t=153
    Excellent. Thanks for sharing.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,137

    Looking at the ONS death stats per age, here's an approximate distribution of 101 deaths from covid at given ages:

    (SNIP)

    The mean number of years lost on that distribution is 13.1 years of life, ranging from 4 years to 59 years.

    20% would lose multiple decades (20 years+)
    (10% would lose 30 years+)

    Because we really needed the raw data filling several screens, rather than a summary and some analysis?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Looking at the ONS death stats per age, here's an approximate distribution of 101 deaths from covid at given ages:


    The mean number of years lost on that distribution is 13.1 years of life, ranging from 4 years to 59 years.

    20% would lose multiple decades (20 years+)
    (10% would lose 30 years+)

    Maybe distributions can be presented graphically in future ?
  • Carnyx said:

    Would Adam Tomkins MSP perhaps be another good choice? I don't think he was in the CPGB, M-L or otherwise, but he was a leftie republican was he not?
    He was, shared a stage with Tommy Sheridan bellowing 'Windsors Oot' and all sorts.

    Of course he also had very strong views on EU membership and independence. Never let it be said that Adam is consistent to a fault.

    https://twitter.com/Zarkwan/status/1328341544911466497?s=20
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,402
    edited December 2020
    Taking this from the bottom up.. I would scrap the all UK free for all but I can't see any reason to not allow those already in Tier 1 to meet anyone else in Tier 1 - as planned from 23rd to the 27th. I think Tier 2 could have an Eve/Xmas Day/Boxing Day thing with up to one overnight stay only with two households only. Tier 3 Xmas Day only with two households only. Tier 4 Zoom only. Edit: the rules of the highest Tier apply if you're planning to mix with a household of a higher Tier.

    I suspect, patronisingly, we'll get some guff about how that's all too much and confusing. As if the existing restrictions within each Tier weren't clearly understood (and they are) as it is.
  • My one sadness is that I can't do my traditional Boxing day ritual - serve my mother-in-law her favourite wine with the main course. Which is sweet white wine.

    She knows nothing of wine, bless her. Just likes what she likes.

    I give her the finest desert wines, without telling her what they are. The price would horrify her, I think, since she grew up very poor.

    The other side of that is the family wine snob has to watch this, and hold his tongue. Otherwise he gets none, when desert comes.....
    This made me smile.

    It reminded me of my dear old Dad who equated sweetness in wine with quality. He would swig the sauternes appreciatively with the roast beef. Offer him the finest bordeaux and he'd spit it out - 'Vinegar!
  • Looking at the ONS death stats per age, here's an approximate distribution of 101 deaths from covid at given ages:

    28
    37
    42
    46
    49
    52
    53
    55
    56
    57
    58
    60
    61
    62
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    92
    92
    93
    93
    93
    93
    94

    The mean number of years lost on that distribution is 13.1 years of life, ranging from 4 years to 59 years.

    20% would lose multiple decades (20 years+)
    (10% would lose 30 years+)

    So 1.31 decades lost on average.
  • That argument would be fine. Had Shagger not stood up in the Commons trying to score political points that the opposition wanted to Cancel Christmas and only He would Save Christmas.

    Oh dear oh dear. Perhaps - as I keep suggesting to that knobber from Essicks - this virus has no interest in party political games. We could see a mile away that the big Christmas lockdown was irresponsibly dangerous. And yet having spent weeks setting this up - legislation, cancelled roadworks and rail engineering, cash for additional coach and rail seats, a media campaign about how good old Boris was saving Christmas - he'll have to pull the plug at the last minute.
    He cannot unless he recalls Parliament

    I assume it is therefore advice
  • So 1.31 decades lost on average.
    Not for 80 somethings.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,045
    IanB2 said:

    Because we really needed the raw data filling several screens, rather than a summary and some analysis?
    Without that, contrarian would still not understand.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,137
    Scott_xP said:
    Where’s Sean fleeing to this time?
  • Not for 80 somethings.
    Yes it's 0.9-1.0 decades for them on average.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,587

    He cannot unless he recalls Parliament

    I assume it is therefore advice
    How long does it take to recall Parliament?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    He cannot unless he recalls Parliament

    I assume it is therefore advice
    But surely he can use emergency legislation, the CCA. If he weren't so terrified of the DM and the ERG.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    The wine snob is wrong. Fine Sauternes and Barsac can pair very well with some meat or poultry courses, especially if the dishes are quite rich. In Bordeaux they do this quite often, especially at the sweet-wine chateaux.
    Indeed, Richard. Sauternes are traditionally paired with Foie Gras, but I could see the logic to pairing it with any rich meat dish with a fruit-based coulis.
  • Carnyx said:

    But surely he can use emergency legislation, the CCA. If he weren't so terrified of the DM and the ERG.
    I do not know to be honest
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
  • Yes it's 0.9-1.0 decades for them on average.
    Do(es) one decades take(s) the singular or plural of the verb that follows?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,556

    OK. lets say you are right.

    Ask yourself what the human cost of preserving those years in their entirety are, years that no generation in history has ever had.

    They are massively, massively too high. Generations are going to have their entire lives blighted by the consequences.

    People talk in this pandemic about selfishness. That's selfishness right there, writ large.
    How many times does it have to be explained that if you let rip then lots lots more will die because the hospitals won't be able to cope (both from Covid and other stuff like cancer and accidents) and the economic consequences will probably be far worse.

    And we are not preserving those years in their entirety as you say because at no time have we had a complete and utter lockdown and people are clearly still dying. It is a balancing act between sensible precautions and carry on living and those precautions are changed as things get worse or better.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Isn't there an exodus from London and half empty streets at this time of year even in normal circumstances?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,746

    Isn't there an exodus from London and half empty streets at this time of year even in normal circumstances?
    No. There isn't. Under normal circumstances there is no place on Earth better than London at Christmas. Unpopular opinion on this board I know.
  • Do(es) one decades take(s) the singular or plural of the verb that follows?
    It depends upon context.
  • DougSeal said:

    No. There isn't. Under normal circumstances there is no place on Earth better than London at Christmas. Unpopular opinion on this board I know.
    There are many places better than London at Christmas, believe you me
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,587
    edited December 2020
    TimT said:

    Indeed, Richard. Sauternes are traditionally paired with Foie Gras, but I could see the logic to pairing it with any rich meat dish with a fruit-based coulis.
    One can go even further over-the-top with wine snobbery than with arguing about Brexit!
  • It depends upon context.
    I have to give up on you now. You clearly can't be helped. But 2009 was NOT decades ago.
This discussion has been closed.