The Electoral College Vote goes to Biden who, as expected, secures 306 votes – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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Drink driving says Hi!Philip_Thompson said:
No it bloody well is not!OnlyLivingBoy said:
Government obviously know they've made the wrong call on this, but are too gutless in the face of anti lockdown pressure frombackbench libertarian nutters and the Tory press to row back, so desperately calling on us all to ignore their advice. Whitty channeling Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park - just because you can, doesn't mean you should. It's the government's job to tell us we can't, if we shouldn't!rottenborough said:Steve Barclay is the sacrifice cabinet member sent out to defend 'save xmas' disaster on R4 this morning.
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It's not wholly spurious.TOPPING said:
Tim Harford's podcast - How to Vaccinate the World is excellent on this and an absolute must-listen.Foxy said:
Yes, we simply don't know yet whether vaccines allow asymptomatic spread. That may be apparent in time.DavidL said:@Foxy (or indeed anyone).
I was at a virtual dinner party last night and was surprised that one of the participants said that there was no evidence that the vaccines stopped people from infecting others as opposed to not getting seriously ill themselves. My understanding from here was that there was such evidence albeit it was preliminary. Have there been any developments on this?
No evidence is not evidence that it doesn't though, and I suspect that it does.
Deals with all those issues. And as you say, the trials didn't test for onward transmission (nor efficacy of single dose). So they simply don't know (so the "get vaccinated not to kill granny" is wholly spurious).
There is good reason to believe vaccinations help prevent onward spread based on everything we know about spread. Just because it hasn't been tested and proven doesn't mean it's spurious.1 -
I was talking about preventing people going away on holiday which is what you agreed with "absolutely".Philip_Thompson said:
Errr no. I don't want a lockdown. I hate the lockdown. Though I can understand why it might be considered necessary.TOPPING said:
Absolutely. People have gone mad.Charles said:
Those are not the only two options.Philip_Thompson said:
During a Pandemic? Unless you're going for a total free for all then absolutely.Charles said:
Would that have been an acceptable restriction of liberty?FrancisUrquhart said:
Government could have banned foreign summer holidays and massively bolstered the seaside towns.Sandpit said:
Indeed. Britons need to start going on holiday to seaside towns again, they’ve all been hollowed out by cheap air travel over the past 50 years.Gardenwalker said:Britain is quite unusual in that its most deprived areas tend to be around the coast.
In most other countries the coast is highly sought after; retirement towns for the wealthy old etc
Even in the middle of a pandemic this summer, many people preferred getting on a plane to taking a break in a seaside town.
Closing the borders but keeping people's liberties here is better than having a few schmucks go on holiday, reimport the virus then closing everyone's businesses here and telling everyone to stay at home here.
I am deeply uncomfortable with Australia banning their citizens from leaving the country. But mandatory quarantine on the way back is fine.
@FrancisUrquhart I get because I'm thinking that he lives on his own, perhaps older, perhaps comfortably off, perhaps large house ( @FrancisUrquhart if this is not the case then apols but that is def a PB pro-lockdown type) so understandably wants the rest of the country to be imprisoned to protect him.
But self-confessed libertarians (lolz) like @Philip_Thompson?
Mad, I tell you.
My point was that if you're not having a total libertarian free for all (and no country in the entire world is doing then) then I would prefer to put security restrictions on the international border while keeping maximum liberalism within the country.
What part of that do you disagree with?0 -
1417/Hardet Belize used to be one of the most sought after drafts in Crab Air due to the great opportunities for low level hooliganism and getting a scabby dick.TOPPING said:
Used to be full of squaddies on RnR from Belize pretending they were Top Gun pilots to the local lasses.0 -
A very enjoyable Twitter search, and all the more fun knowing I now have some of their money.kamski said:
Yes, if you believe the stuff on Twitter, it looks like the mystery of the free money on this market wasn't mafia money-laundering or market manipulation, it was MAGA moronsAlistair said:This shit is art. I could look at it all day
Just search Twitter for "@betfaircs trump" and it's wall to wall this1 -
They've put out the repeated message that it's safe to shop and gather for ChristmasSandpit said:
Government can’t win on the Christmas issue, they simply have to rely on people using their common sense. Yes, I know...rottenborough said:Steve Barclay is the sacrifice cabinet member sent out to defend 'save xmas' disaster on R4 this morning.
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So that’s why you call it Crab Air?Dura_Ace said:
1417/Hardet Belize used to be one of the most sought after drafts in Crab Air due to the great opportunities for low level hooliganism and getting a scabby dick.TOPPING said:
Used to be full of squaddies on RnR from Belize pretending they were Top Gun pilots to the local lasses.
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What could change the holiday market significantly is if families weren't all forced to take their holidays in the July-August period due to school holidays. For example by different term arrangements or more flexible attendance rules. If Brits could take their long foreign holiday in spring or autumn - which personally I have long believed is optimal due to maximum weather difference, cheaper costs, and avoiding the midsummer swelter when many Europeans are themselves on holiday - then there might be a bigger market for summer breaks in the UK.Gallowgate said:
Well duh? Who would choose Weston-super-Mare, Margate, or Whitley Bay over Ibiza, Crete, or Sardinia?Sandpit said:
Indeed. Britons need to start going on holiday to seaside towns again, they’ve all been hollowed out by cheap air travel over the past 50 years.Gardenwalker said:Britain is quite unusual in that its most deprived areas tend to be around the coast.
In most other countries the coast is highly sought after; retirement towns for the wealthy old etc
Even in the middle of a pandemic this summer, many people preferred getting on a plane to taking a break in a seaside town.
You’re not going to put the genie back in the bottle.0 -
I have a few issues with this that makes me doubt if these bets/people exist.Alistair said:
First of all can Americans bet using Betfair, I thought they couldn't.
Secondly putting the € sign after the amount is a bit of a pointer, because we put the currency sign before the amount, except in Russia, where they do the opposite.
Of course I can imagine some Brits did keep betting on Trump well after election day, I had a few people telling me I had lost my money backing Biden.1 -
Sounds like a great trip.Fishing said:
Cancun is just where I'm flying into - place was full of white trash Americans partying when I was there last. I'll head down to Tulum and Playa del Carmen and over to Merida I think. Not sure I'll make it up as far as Oaxaca but you never know.TOPPING said:
Used to be full of squaddies on RnR from Belize pretending they were Top Gun pilots to the local lasses.Fishing said:
Doesn't look much like a holiday to me.Sandpit said:
One of few places in the world that’s open for tourists now. Hopefully it goes well with testing on arrival.FrancisUrquhart said:
Ridiculous we are allowing people to go...they just can't miss out on their Christmas trip to Dubai...Sandpit said:
Well there’s a fair few more British idiots turning up in my part of the world at the moment - wife and I are quarantining ourselves until the new year, waiting for them all to go back home again!DavidL said:
Well there were so many more interesting variants of the virus to learn about and bring home.Sandpit said:
Indeed. Britons need to start going on holiday to seaside towns again, they’ve all been hollowed out by cheap air travel over the past 50 years.Gardenwalker said:Britain is quite unusual in that its most deprived areas tend to be around the coast.
In most other countries the coast is highly sought after; retirement towns for the wealthy old etc
Even in the middle of a pandemic this summer, many people preferred getting on a plane to taking a break in a seaside town.
The CMO was commenting that the UK has made by far the biggest contribution to the WHO genome data base on the virus. Hancock claimed that this was because we had been investing in genome technology for a decade but the role of our disproportionately high number of complete idiots cannot be underestimated.
https://variety.com/2020/music/news/kiss-new-years-eve-concert-livestream-dubai-1234836704/
https://www.thenationalnews.com/arts-culture/music/clean-bandit-and-anne-marie-to-perform-in-the-uae-as-part-of-dubai-shopping-festival-1.1128395
They’re mostly going to get a real shock though - mask wearing is compulsory everywhere except your own hotel room, and social distancing is taken very seriously, even at tourist attractions.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HqKcJtZ_yM8
I've picked Cancun for some winter sun this year. Then up to the US for a business trip.1 -
Three examples of wealthier towns than Hastings...Benpointer said:
Er, four examples Shirley?Gardenwalker said:
Yes.JohnLilburne said:
Even in Northern Europe? The climate is hardly conducive to living on the coast 12 months a year, especially if you are old.Gardenwalker said:Britain is quite unusual in that its most deprived areas tend to be around the coast.
In most other countries the coast is highly sought after; retirement towns for the wealthy old etc
There is no real climate difference between Hastings and Sandbanks, Ostend, Deauville to give three examples.
(Edit: Unless St Leonards-on-Sea has renamed itself Sandbanks - I wouldn't be surprised, it always has had delusions of grandeur.)0 -
Absolutely, knowing the alternative is an even greater restriction of our civil liberties.TOPPING said:
I was talking about preventing people going away on holiday which is what you agreed with "absolutely".Philip_Thompson said:
Errr no. I don't want a lockdown. I hate the lockdown. Though I can understand why it might be considered necessary.TOPPING said:
Absolutely. People have gone mad.Charles said:
Those are not the only two options.Philip_Thompson said:
During a Pandemic? Unless you're going for a total free for all then absolutely.Charles said:
Would that have been an acceptable restriction of liberty?FrancisUrquhart said:
Government could have banned foreign summer holidays and massively bolstered the seaside towns.Sandpit said:
Indeed. Britons need to start going on holiday to seaside towns again, they’ve all been hollowed out by cheap air travel over the past 50 years.Gardenwalker said:Britain is quite unusual in that its most deprived areas tend to be around the coast.
In most other countries the coast is highly sought after; retirement towns for the wealthy old etc
Even in the middle of a pandemic this summer, many people preferred getting on a plane to taking a break in a seaside town.
Closing the borders but keeping people's liberties here is better than having a few schmucks go on holiday, reimport the virus then closing everyone's businesses here and telling everyone to stay at home here.
I am deeply uncomfortable with Australia banning their citizens from leaving the country. But mandatory quarantine on the way back is fine.
@FrancisUrquhart I get because I'm thinking that he lives on his own, perhaps older, perhaps comfortably off, perhaps large house ( @FrancisUrquhart if this is not the case then apols but that is def a PB pro-lockdown type) so understandably wants the rest of the country to be imprisoned to protect him.
But self-confessed libertarians (lolz) like @Philip_Thompson?
Mad, I tell you.
My point was that if you're not having a total libertarian free for all (and no country in the entire world is doing then) then I would prefer to put security restrictions on the international border while keeping maximum liberalism within the country.
What part of that do you disagree with?
If the choice is restricting foreign travel or restricting everything then absolutely restricting foreign travel during a pandemic is the lesser of two evils.2 -
No one knows whether it's true. Which absolutely means that claiming it is true is spurious.Philip_Thompson said:
It's not wholly spurious.TOPPING said:
Tim Harford's podcast - How to Vaccinate the World is excellent on this and an absolute must-listen.Foxy said:
Yes, we simply don't know yet whether vaccines allow asymptomatic spread. That may be apparent in time.DavidL said:@Foxy (or indeed anyone).
I was at a virtual dinner party last night and was surprised that one of the participants said that there was no evidence that the vaccines stopped people from infecting others as opposed to not getting seriously ill themselves. My understanding from here was that there was such evidence albeit it was preliminary. Have there been any developments on this?
No evidence is not evidence that it doesn't though, and I suspect that it does.
Deals with all those issues. And as you say, the trials didn't test for onward transmission (nor efficacy of single dose). So they simply don't know (so the "get vaccinated not to kill granny" is wholly spurious).
There is good reason to believe vaccinations help prevent onward spread based on everything we know about spread. Just because it hasn't been tested and proven doesn't mean it's spurious.0 -
Libertarian Phil speaks.Philip_Thompson said:
Absolutely, knowing the alternative is an even greater restriction of our civil liberties.TOPPING said:
I was talking about preventing people going away on holiday which is what you agreed with "absolutely".Philip_Thompson said:
Errr no. I don't want a lockdown. I hate the lockdown. Though I can understand why it might be considered necessary.TOPPING said:
Absolutely. People have gone mad.Charles said:
Those are not the only two options.Philip_Thompson said:
During a Pandemic? Unless you're going for a total free for all then absolutely.Charles said:
Would that have been an acceptable restriction of liberty?FrancisUrquhart said:
Government could have banned foreign summer holidays and massively bolstered the seaside towns.Sandpit said:
Indeed. Britons need to start going on holiday to seaside towns again, they’ve all been hollowed out by cheap air travel over the past 50 years.Gardenwalker said:Britain is quite unusual in that its most deprived areas tend to be around the coast.
In most other countries the coast is highly sought after; retirement towns for the wealthy old etc
Even in the middle of a pandemic this summer, many people preferred getting on a plane to taking a break in a seaside town.
Closing the borders but keeping people's liberties here is better than having a few schmucks go on holiday, reimport the virus then closing everyone's businesses here and telling everyone to stay at home here.
I am deeply uncomfortable with Australia banning their citizens from leaving the country. But mandatory quarantine on the way back is fine.
@FrancisUrquhart I get because I'm thinking that he lives on his own, perhaps older, perhaps comfortably off, perhaps large house ( @FrancisUrquhart if this is not the case then apols but that is def a PB pro-lockdown type) so understandably wants the rest of the country to be imprisoned to protect him.
But self-confessed libertarians (lolz) like @Philip_Thompson?
Mad, I tell you.
My point was that if you're not having a total libertarian free for all (and no country in the entire world is doing then) then I would prefer to put security restrictions on the international border while keeping maximum liberalism within the country.
What part of that do you disagree with?
If the choice is restricting foreign travel or restricting everything then absolutely restricting foreign travel during a pandemic is the lesser of two evils.1 -
As I suggested above, the first one looks like a bot, but the second is an emigrant Welshman living in Oz, looks genuine.TheScreamingEagles said:
I have a few issues with this that makes me doubt if these bets/people exist.Alistair said:
First of all can Americans bet using Betfair, I thought they couldn't.
Secondly putting the € sign after the amount is a bit of a pointer, because we put the currency sign before the amount, except in Russia, where they do the opposite.
Of course I can imagine some Brits did keep betting on Trump well after election day, I had a few people telling me I had lost my money backing Biden.0 -
So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG1 -
Mexico is a fantastic country to travel around as long as you're careful - I did central Mexico last year (Guadalajara-Puerto Escondido through Mexico City and Oaxaca) and I was very impressed. You never hear about that part of the world in Europe compared to Peru or SE Asia, but it was great.TOPPING said:
Sounds like a great trip.Fishing said:
Cancun is just where I'm flying into - place was full of white trash Americans partying when I was there last. I'll head down to Tulum and Playa del Carmen and over to Merida I think. Not sure I'll make it up as far as Oaxaca but you never know.TOPPING said:
Used to be full of squaddies on RnR from Belize pretending they were Top Gun pilots to the local lasses.Fishing said:
Doesn't look much like a holiday to me.Sandpit said:
One of few places in the world that’s open for tourists now. Hopefully it goes well with testing on arrival.FrancisUrquhart said:
Ridiculous we are allowing people to go...they just can't miss out on their Christmas trip to Dubai...Sandpit said:
Well there’s a fair few more British idiots turning up in my part of the world at the moment - wife and I are quarantining ourselves until the new year, waiting for them all to go back home again!DavidL said:
Well there were so many more interesting variants of the virus to learn about and bring home.Sandpit said:
Indeed. Britons need to start going on holiday to seaside towns again, they’ve all been hollowed out by cheap air travel over the past 50 years.Gardenwalker said:Britain is quite unusual in that its most deprived areas tend to be around the coast.
In most other countries the coast is highly sought after; retirement towns for the wealthy old etc
Even in the middle of a pandemic this summer, many people preferred getting on a plane to taking a break in a seaside town.
The CMO was commenting that the UK has made by far the biggest contribution to the WHO genome data base on the virus. Hancock claimed that this was because we had been investing in genome technology for a decade but the role of our disproportionately high number of complete idiots cannot be underestimated.
https://variety.com/2020/music/news/kiss-new-years-eve-concert-livestream-dubai-1234836704/
https://www.thenationalnews.com/arts-culture/music/clean-bandit-and-anne-marie-to-perform-in-the-uae-as-part-of-dubai-shopping-festival-1.1128395
They’re mostly going to get a real shock though - mask wearing is compulsory everywhere except your own hotel room, and social distancing is taken very seriously, even at tourist attractions.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HqKcJtZ_yM8
I've picked Cancun for some winter sun this year. Then up to the US for a business trip.0 -
No idea what you're talking about.Dura_Ace said:
1417/Hardet Belize used to be one of the most sought after drafts in Crab Air due to the great opportunities for low level hooliganism and getting a scabby dick.TOPPING said:
Used to be full of squaddies on RnR from Belize pretending they were Top Gun pilots to the local lasses.0 -
Why do the same pig ignorant morons park on the KEEP CLEAR hatchings outside school every sodding day?0
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I know we've all done OK on Biden, but @Betfaircs final tweet on the matter was appalingly misleading.0
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It bloody well is when your thoughtless actions can kill somebody else.Philip_Thompson said:
No it bloody well is not!OnlyLivingBoy said:
Government obviously know they've made the wrong call on this, but are too gutless in the face of anti lockdown pressure frombackbench libertarian nutters and the Tory press to row back, so desperately calling on us all to ignore their advice. Whitty channeling Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park - just because you can, doesn't mean you should. It's the government's job to tell us we can't, if we shouldn't!rottenborough said:Steve Barclay is the sacrifice cabinet member sent out to defend 'save xmas' disaster on R4 this morning.
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Because it’s keep clear for them, what other interpretation could there be,RochdalePioneers said:Why do the same pig ignorant morons park on the KEEP CLEAR hatchings outside school every sodding day?
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Yes. I never made it to Mexico but Belize, Honduras and Costa Rica are pretty amazing also and as you say not on peoples' radar.Fishing said:
Mexico is a fantastic country to travel around as long as you're careful - I did central Mexico last year (Guadalajara-Puerto Escondido through Mexico City and Oaxaca) and I was very impressed. You never hear about that part of the world in Europe compared to Peru or SE Asia, but it was great.TOPPING said:
Sounds like a great trip.Fishing said:
Cancun is just where I'm flying into - place was full of white trash Americans partying when I was there last. I'll head down to Tulum and Playa del Carmen and over to Merida I think. Not sure I'll make it up as far as Oaxaca but you never know.TOPPING said:
Used to be full of squaddies on RnR from Belize pretending they were Top Gun pilots to the local lasses.Fishing said:
Doesn't look much like a holiday to me.Sandpit said:
One of few places in the world that’s open for tourists now. Hopefully it goes well with testing on arrival.FrancisUrquhart said:
Ridiculous we are allowing people to go...they just can't miss out on their Christmas trip to Dubai...Sandpit said:
Well there’s a fair few more British idiots turning up in my part of the world at the moment - wife and I are quarantining ourselves until the new year, waiting for them all to go back home again!DavidL said:
Well there were so many more interesting variants of the virus to learn about and bring home.Sandpit said:
Indeed. Britons need to start going on holiday to seaside towns again, they’ve all been hollowed out by cheap air travel over the past 50 years.Gardenwalker said:Britain is quite unusual in that its most deprived areas tend to be around the coast.
In most other countries the coast is highly sought after; retirement towns for the wealthy old etc
Even in the middle of a pandemic this summer, many people preferred getting on a plane to taking a break in a seaside town.
The CMO was commenting that the UK has made by far the biggest contribution to the WHO genome data base on the virus. Hancock claimed that this was because we had been investing in genome technology for a decade but the role of our disproportionately high number of complete idiots cannot be underestimated.
https://variety.com/2020/music/news/kiss-new-years-eve-concert-livestream-dubai-1234836704/
https://www.thenationalnews.com/arts-culture/music/clean-bandit-and-anne-marie-to-perform-in-the-uae-as-part-of-dubai-shopping-festival-1.1128395
They’re mostly going to get a real shock though - mask wearing is compulsory everywhere except your own hotel room, and social distancing is taken very seriously, even at tourist attractions.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HqKcJtZ_yM8
I've picked Cancun for some winter sun this year. Then up to the US for a business trip.1 -
Yes, German states tightened both the general distancing rules, and the Christmas "relaxation" on Sunday, I don't think there is any reduction in most people's acceptance of the rules as a result of the changes.FrancisUrquhart said:
I don't get it...if they had come out yesterday and said new mutant variant, spreading, numbers too high, we need to massively scale back Christmas hall pass to 1-2 days, far better than trying to argue no change, but be careful.rottenborough said:Steve Barclay is the sacrifice cabinet member sent out to defend 'save xmas' disaster on R4 this morning.
Hospital staff are being asked to give availability on their planned days off over christmas + new year, in case things get bad. I guess it will be OK, but in January things will probably tight - hopefully people will be responsible over christmas! There are enough beds in the hospitals, I think, but the crunch will be if there are enough staff if there is a higher peak in January.
Local emergency/ICU department staff have been told they might be vaccinated starting next week - I'm a bit sceptical as approval hasn't happened yet, and I'm not sure if they have any doses, but we'll see.1 -
Nice trainers. Who are they made by?TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG0 -
https://myaccount.betfair.com/activity/premium-charges should tell you. It works even if you aren't PC I believe.rkrkrk said:
I only seem to have that net deposits figure for current cards - betfair seems to have removed the stats for older cards... I guess they don't want people like me knowing how much we have lost!Foxy said:One of the interesting thing about cashing out on BFX is the figure on net deposits. 10 years of gambling, mostly on politics and football, and I am £200 up. Not the most effective way for me to make a living!
0 -
D&G, I like the understated look.TOPPING said:
Nice trainers. Who are they made by?TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG1 -
What does D&G stand for?TheScreamingEagles said:
D&G, I like the understated look.TOPPING said:
Nice trainers. Who are they made by?TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG0 -
Domestic and General I think.TOPPING said:
D&G? What does that stand for?TheScreamingEagles said:
D&G, I like the understated look.TOPPING said:
Nice trainers. Who are they made by?TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG1 -
Actually, no. It's not good if anyone loses their shirt betting.Philip_Thompson said:
Look at the dates he bet his "life savings" away. 🤦🏻♂️Alistair said:
A fool and his money are easily parted. Congratulations to whomever took his money off him.0 -
Thanks - sounds groovy.TheScreamingEagles said:
Domestic and General I think.TOPPING said:
D&G? What does that stand for?TheScreamingEagles said:
D&G, I like the understated look.TOPPING said:
Nice trainers. Who are they made by?TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG0 -
Do you have a link?TOPPING said:
Tim Harford's podcast - How to Vaccinate the World is excellent on this and an absolute must-listen.Foxy said:
Yes, we simply don't know yet whether vaccines allow asymptomatic spread. That may be apparent in time.DavidL said:@Foxy (or indeed anyone).
I was at a virtual dinner party last night and was surprised that one of the participants said that there was no evidence that the vaccines stopped people from infecting others as opposed to not getting seriously ill themselves. My understanding from here was that there was such evidence albeit it was preliminary. Have there been any developments on this?
No evidence is not evidence that it doesn't though, and I suspect that it does.
Deals with all those issues. And as you say, the trials didn't test for onward transmission (nor efficacy of single dose). So they simply don't know (so the "get vaccinated not to kill granny" is wholly spurious).
That might be ameliorated by them vaccinating the grannies first, as planned.0 -
George at Asda, black marker pen same.TOPPING said:
Nice trainers. Who are they made by?TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG
5 -
Well there is some evidence, as the AZN trial tested for asymptomatic infection as well, via swabs. There were proportionally fewer cases of asymptomatic (or symptom unreported) infection, as well as symptomatic, in the vaccinated groups as compared to control groups.Foxy said:
Yes, we simply don't know yet whether vaccines allow asymptomatic spread. That may be apparent in time.DavidL said:@Foxy (or indeed anyone).
I was at a virtual dinner party last night and was surprised that one of the participants said that there was no evidence that the vaccines stopped people from infecting others as opposed to not getting seriously ill themselves. My understanding from here was that there was such evidence albeit it was preliminary. Have there been any developments on this?
No evidence is not evidence that it doesn't though, and I suspect that it does.
And that was with a vaccine less efficacious than the mRNA vaccines.
Given none of the vaccines are 100% efficacious, they will almost certainly allow some infection to be passed on, but it seems very likely indeed that they will significantly reduce spread.0 -
I've chasing Sporting Index this morning (yet to pay out) and they've assured me they will once their traders are in and have reviewed last night - they can't give me a time but should be today.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.0 -
Do it right & you get to be like New Zealand. No Covid & freedom of movement & association within the country.Philip_Thompson said:
Errr no. I don't want a lockdown. I hate the lockdown. Though I can understand why it might be considered necessary.TOPPING said:
Absolutely. People have gone mad.Charles said:
Those are not the only two options.Philip_Thompson said:
During a Pandemic? Unless you're going for a total free for all then absolutely.Charles said:
Would that have been an acceptable restriction of liberty?FrancisUrquhart said:
Government could have banned foreign summer holidays and massively bolstered the seaside towns.Sandpit said:
Indeed. Britons need to start going on holiday to seaside towns again, they’ve all been hollowed out by cheap air travel over the past 50 years.Gardenwalker said:Britain is quite unusual in that its most deprived areas tend to be around the coast.
In most other countries the coast is highly sought after; retirement towns for the wealthy old etc
Even in the middle of a pandemic this summer, many people preferred getting on a plane to taking a break in a seaside town.
Closing the borders but keeping people's liberties here is better than having a few schmucks go on holiday, reimport the virus then closing everyone's businesses here and telling everyone to stay at home here.
I am deeply uncomfortable with Australia banning their citizens from leaving the country. But mandatory quarantine on the way back is fine.
@FrancisUrquhart I get because I'm thinking that he lives on his own, perhaps older, perhaps comfortably off, perhaps large house ( @FrancisUrquhart if this is not the case then apols but that is def a PB pro-lockdown type) so understandably wants the rest of the country to be imprisoned to protect him.
But self-confessed libertarians (lolz) like @Philip_Thompson?
Mad, I tell you.
My point was that if you're not having a total libertarian free for all (and no country in the entire world is doing then) then I would prefer to put security restrictions on the international border while keeping maximum liberalism within the country.
What part of that do you disagree with?4 -
There are no miracles in science.Charles said:
Er, no DavidDavidL said:
Well there were so many more interesting variants of the virus to learn about and bring home.Sandpit said:
Indeed. Britons need to start going on holiday to seaside towns again, they’ve all been hollowed out by cheap air travel over the past 50 years.Gardenwalker said:Britain is quite unusual in that its most deprived areas tend to be around the coast.
In most other countries the coast is highly sought after; retirement towns for the wealthy old etc
Even in the middle of a pandemic this summer, many people preferred getting on a plane to taking a break in a seaside town.
The CMO was commenting that the UK has made by far the biggest contribution to the WHO genome data base on the virus. Hancock claimed that this was because we had been investing in genome technology for a decade but the role of our disproportionately high number of complete idiots cannot be underestimated.
It’s because the Sanger Institute is a miracle of modern scientific endeavour
0 -
Indeed, I feel a bit guilty taking money off these people.Casino_Royale said:
Actually, no. It's not good if anyone loses their shirt betting.Philip_Thompson said:
Look at the dates he bet his "life savings" away. 🤦🏻♂️Alistair said:
A fool and his money are easily parted. Congratulations to whomever took his money off him.
I'll make a donation to a gambling charity with some of my winnings.1 -
That`s a good plan, stay out of Cancun. Puerto Morelos is a nice little place, just south of the monstrosity,Fishing said:
Cancun is just where I'm flying into - place was full of white trash Americans partying when I was there last. I'll head down to Tulum and Playa del Carmen and over to Merida I think. Not sure I'll make it up as far as Oaxaca but you never know.TOPPING said:
Used to be full of squaddies on RnR from Belize pretending they were Top Gun pilots to the local lasses.Fishing said:
Doesn't look much like a holiday to me.Sandpit said:
One of few places in the world that’s open for tourists now. Hopefully it goes well with testing on arrival.FrancisUrquhart said:
Ridiculous we are allowing people to go...they just can't miss out on their Christmas trip to Dubai...Sandpit said:
Well there’s a fair few more British idiots turning up in my part of the world at the moment - wife and I are quarantining ourselves until the new year, waiting for them all to go back home again!DavidL said:
Well there were so many more interesting variants of the virus to learn about and bring home.Sandpit said:
Indeed. Britons need to start going on holiday to seaside towns again, they’ve all been hollowed out by cheap air travel over the past 50 years.Gardenwalker said:Britain is quite unusual in that its most deprived areas tend to be around the coast.
In most other countries the coast is highly sought after; retirement towns for the wealthy old etc
Even in the middle of a pandemic this summer, many people preferred getting on a plane to taking a break in a seaside town.
The CMO was commenting that the UK has made by far the biggest contribution to the WHO genome data base on the virus. Hancock claimed that this was because we had been investing in genome technology for a decade but the role of our disproportionately high number of complete idiots cannot be underestimated.
https://variety.com/2020/music/news/kiss-new-years-eve-concert-livestream-dubai-1234836704/
https://www.thenationalnews.com/arts-culture/music/clean-bandit-and-anne-marie-to-perform-in-the-uae-as-part-of-dubai-shopping-festival-1.1128395
They’re mostly going to get a real shock though - mask wearing is compulsory everywhere except your own hotel room, and social distancing is taken very seriously, even at tourist attractions.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HqKcJtZ_yM8
I've picked Cancun for some winter sun this year. Then up to the US for a business trip.1 -
Named after some diabolical medication that was issued for lice and known as 'crab fat' or 'blue unction' that is the same colour as their uniforms which make them look like a steward on a cross channel ferry.Sandpit said:
So that’s why you call it Crab Air?Dura_Ace said:
1417/Hardet Belize used to be one of the most sought after drafts in Crab Air due to the great opportunities for low level hooliganism and getting a scabby dick.TOPPING said:
Used to be full of squaddies on RnR from Belize pretending they were Top Gun pilots to the local lasses.
I was actually an RAF reject. I was in my university RAF UAS for three years then went to Aircrew Selection at Biggin Hill (in my mother's Renault 4 - glamour!) and scored (I think) 111. They had some mad 120 point scale and you needed 113 for pilot so they tried to make me into an Intelligence Officer. I walked into the Navy recruitment office the next day and said I wanted to be a pilot. They sent me back to Biggin and having done the tests two weeks before I now scored 118. You needed 117 to be a FAA pilot as there was no point in recruiting marginal candidates who wouldn't be able to handle the Harrier.
I've probably remembered all those numbers incorrectly but the relative magnitudes are basically correct.4 -
Yes, Libertarian Phil wants maximum liberties possible and to avoid domestic lockdowns during a pandemic.TOPPING said:
Libertarian Phil speaks.Philip_Thompson said:
Absolutely, knowing the alternative is an even greater restriction of our civil liberties.TOPPING said:
I was talking about preventing people going away on holiday which is what you agreed with "absolutely".Philip_Thompson said:
Errr no. I don't want a lockdown. I hate the lockdown. Though I can understand why it might be considered necessary.TOPPING said:
Absolutely. People have gone mad.Charles said:
Those are not the only two options.Philip_Thompson said:
During a Pandemic? Unless you're going for a total free for all then absolutely.Charles said:
Would that have been an acceptable restriction of liberty?FrancisUrquhart said:
Government could have banned foreign summer holidays and massively bolstered the seaside towns.Sandpit said:
Indeed. Britons need to start going on holiday to seaside towns again, they’ve all been hollowed out by cheap air travel over the past 50 years.Gardenwalker said:Britain is quite unusual in that its most deprived areas tend to be around the coast.
In most other countries the coast is highly sought after; retirement towns for the wealthy old etc
Even in the middle of a pandemic this summer, many people preferred getting on a plane to taking a break in a seaside town.
Closing the borders but keeping people's liberties here is better than having a few schmucks go on holiday, reimport the virus then closing everyone's businesses here and telling everyone to stay at home here.
I am deeply uncomfortable with Australia banning their citizens from leaving the country. But mandatory quarantine on the way back is fine.
@FrancisUrquhart I get because I'm thinking that he lives on his own, perhaps older, perhaps comfortably off, perhaps large house ( @FrancisUrquhart if this is not the case then apols but that is def a PB pro-lockdown type) so understandably wants the rest of the country to be imprisoned to protect him.
But self-confessed libertarians (lolz) like @Philip_Thompson?
Mad, I tell you.
My point was that if you're not having a total libertarian free for all (and no country in the entire world is doing then) then I would prefer to put security restrictions on the international border while keeping maximum liberalism within the country.
What part of that do you disagree with?
If the choice is restricting foreign travel or restricting everything then absolutely restricting foreign travel during a pandemic is the lesser of two evils.
I said in the summer we shouldn't have summer holidays and that we could face winter lockdowns as a result.
Well genius look what's happened now. We've just had a four week lockdown, I've spent the last few months in Tier 2 or Tier 3 and it wouldn't surprise me if we have a January lockdown or Tier 2 or Tier 3 in January and February.
If all those lockdowns and tiers could have been avoided by not having foreign travel during a pandemic would I prefer that? Yes, unquestionably of course I would.1 -
This analogy only works if you know you have the virus.Benpointer said:
Drink driving says Hi!Philip_Thompson said:
No it bloody well is not!OnlyLivingBoy said:
Government obviously know they've made the wrong call on this, but are too gutless in the face of anti lockdown pressure frombackbench libertarian nutters and the Tory press to row back, so desperately calling on us all to ignore their advice. Whitty channeling Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park - just because you can, doesn't mean you should. It's the government's job to tell us we can't, if we shouldn't!rottenborough said:Steve Barclay is the sacrifice cabinet member sent out to defend 'save xmas' disaster on R4 this morning.
0 -
From the discussion here yesterday the EU cant have any Pfizer doses until Pfizer had filled the UK's order. That might be why the EU are being slow at approving the vaccine.kamski said:
Yes, German states tightened both the general distancing rules, and the Christmas "relaxation" on Sunday, I don't think there is any reduction in most people's acceptance of the rules as a result of the changes.FrancisUrquhart said:
I don't get it...if they had come out yesterday and said new mutant variant, spreading, numbers too high, we need to massively scale back Christmas hall pass to 1-2 days, far better than trying to argue no change, but be careful.rottenborough said:Steve Barclay is the sacrifice cabinet member sent out to defend 'save xmas' disaster on R4 this morning.
Hospital staff are being asked to give availability on their planned days off over christmas + new year, in case things get bad. I guess it will be OK, but in January things will probably tight - hopefully people will be responsible over christmas! There are enough beds in the hospitals, I think, but the crunch will be if there are enough staff if there is a higher peak in January.
Local emergency/ICU department staff have been told they might be vaccinated starting next week - I'm a bit sceptical as approval hasn't happened yet, and I'm not sure if they have any doses, but we'll see.0 -
Agreed. "How to Vaccinate the World" and "More or Less" are my two go-to podcasts at the moment.TOPPING said:
Tim Harford's podcast - How to Vaccinate the World is excellent on this and an absolute must-listen.Foxy said:
Yes, we simply don't know yet whether vaccines allow asymptomatic spread. That may be apparent in time.DavidL said:@Foxy (or indeed anyone).
I was at a virtual dinner party last night and was surprised that one of the participants said that there was no evidence that the vaccines stopped people from infecting others as opposed to not getting seriously ill themselves. My understanding from here was that there was such evidence albeit it was preliminary. Have there been any developments on this?
No evidence is not evidence that it doesn't though, and I suspect that it does.
Deals with all those issues. And as you say, the trials didn't test for onward transmission (nor efficacy of single dose). So they simply don't know (so the "get vaccinated not to kill granny" is wholly spurious).0 -
I disagree slightly.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.
Betfair have certainly not covered themselves in glory over this, but paying out on the EC result is at least defensible. And to (apparently) settle so massive a market without significant delay, once the result was declared, gives me some confidence in their financial trustworthiness.
If they hadn't closed out the market last night, I would probably not have bet with them again.3 -
Good for you on the donation.TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed, I feel a bit guilty taking money off these people.Casino_Royale said:
Actually, no. It's not good if anyone loses their shirt betting.Philip_Thompson said:
Look at the dates he bet his "life savings" away. 🤦🏻♂️Alistair said:
A fool and his money are easily parted. Congratulations to whomever took his money off him.
I'll make a donation to a gambling charity with some of my winnings.0 -
FFS. My car cost less than those trainers.TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed, I feel a bit guilty taking money off these people.Casino_Royale said:
Actually, no. It's not good if anyone loses their shirt betting.Philip_Thompson said:
Look at the dates he bet his "life savings" away. 🤦🏻♂️Alistair said:
A fool and his money are easily parted. Congratulations to whomever took his money off him.
I'll make a donation to a gambling charity with some of my winnings.
As it happens I run such a charity so perhaps I could invite you to make your contribution to this worthwhile cause. I'll email you the bank details.TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed, I feel a bit guilty taking money off these people.Casino_Royale said:
Actually, no. It's not good if anyone loses their shirt betting.Philip_Thompson said:
Look at the dates he bet his "life savings" away. 🤦🏻♂️Alistair said:
A fool and his money are easily parted. Congratulations to whomever took his money off him.
I'll make a donation to a gambling charity with some of my winnings.0 -
Why would you buy footwear with graffiti on it ?TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG0 -
At the risk of endlessly going over old issues (I mean we'd never do that on PB would we...) their initial rules were on projected, and were clearly too ambiguous. I would hope that in future they would reflect on this, and have more determined rules.Nigelb said:
I disagree slightly.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.
Betfair have certainly not covered themselves in glory over this, but paying out on the EC result is at least defensible. And to (apparently) settle so massive a market without significant delay, once the result was declared, gives me some confidence in their financial trustworthiness.
If they hadn't closed out the market last night, I would probably not have bet with them again.0 -
Not sure what Sporting's rules were but no doubt different to Betfair and they did settle the obvious markets long ago.Casino_Royale said:
I've chasing Sporting Index this morning (yet to pay out) and they've assured me they will once their traders are in and have reviewed last night - they can't give me a time but should be today.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.0 -
Sure.Peter_the_Punter said:TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed, I feel a bit guilty taking money off these people.Casino_Royale said:
Actually, no. It's not good if anyone loses their shirt betting.Philip_Thompson said:
Look at the dates he bet his "life savings" away. 🤦🏻♂️Alistair said:
A fool and his money are easily parted. Congratulations to whomever took his money off him.
I'll make a donation to a gambling charity with some of my winnings.
As it happens I run such a charity so perhaps I could invite you to make your contribution to this worthwhile cause. I'll email you the bank details.TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed, I feel a bit guilty taking money off these people.Casino_Royale said:
Actually, no. It's not good if anyone loses their shirt betting.Philip_Thompson said:
Look at the dates he bet his "life savings" away. 🤦🏻♂️Alistair said:
A fool and his money are easily parted. Congratulations to whomever took his money off him.
I'll make a donation to a gambling charity with some of my winnings.0 -
Makes them lest likely to be stolen.Nigelb said:
Why would you buy footwear with graffiti on it ?TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG0 -
Cyberpunk is usually pretty cliche, even for cliched genres. But they know their stuff- seems like waiting a year is the best ideaMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Urquhart, from what I've seen, the console editions are atrocious but the PC version works pretty well (minor bugs, nothing disastrous).
Does make me glad that, despite really liking The Witcher 3, future dystopia isn't my thing so I didn't pre-order.0 -
Really ? They look fairly criminal to me.TheScreamingEagles said:
Makes them lest likely to be stolen.Nigelb said:
Why would you buy footwear with graffiti on it ?TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG0 -
WhyTheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG1 -
It's the ECV buy spreads on Biden that are still open.Peter_the_Punter said:
Not sure what Sporting's rules were but no doubt different to Betfair and they did settle the obvious markets long ago.Casino_Royale said:
I've chasing Sporting Index this morning (yet to pay out) and they've assured me they will once their traders are in and have reviewed last night - they can't give me a time but should be today.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.
Can you send your charity details to me too please, Peter?0 -
I had £10k locked in with them. That's a lot for me. When you have a lot held by a bookie, or exchange, you must be confident that they have clear rules, stick to them, apply them fairly and intelligently, and deal reasonably with complaints.Nigelb said:
I disagree slightly.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.
Betfair have certainly not covered themselves in glory over this, but paying out on the EC result is at least defensible. And to (apparently) settle so massive a market without significant delay, once the result was declared, gives me some confidence in their financial trustworthiness.
If they hadn't closed out the market last night, I would probably not have bet with them again.
Betfair failed on each count.1 -
They are so comfortable.Gallowgate said:
WhyTheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG0 -
That's why I exclusively wear swastika themed garments. Sure i cannot go outside except to a Jain festival, but no one ever takes my stuff.TheScreamingEagles said:
Makes them lest likely to be stolen.Nigelb said:
Why would you buy footwear with graffiti on it ?TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG1 -
Thought you’d be rocking YeezysTheScreamingEagles said:
They are so comfortable.Gallowgate said:
WhyTheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG0 -
An update on where we are
4 -
I agree - and I think their judgment in not settling earlier was deeply questionable, but it was at least marginally defensible.turbotubbs said:
At the risk of endlessly going over old issues (I mean we'd never do that on PB would we...) their initial rules were on projected, and were clearly too ambiguous. I would hope that in future they would reflect on this, and have more determined rules.Nigelb said:
I disagree slightly.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.
Betfair have certainly not covered themselves in glory over this, but paying out on the EC result is at least defensible. And to (apparently) settle so massive a market without significant delay, once the result was declared, gives me some confidence in their financial trustworthiness.
If they hadn't closed out the market last night, I would probably not have bet with them again.0 -
You might like these Puma trainers then.kle4 said:
That's why I exclusively wear swastika themed garments. Sure i cannot go outside except to a Jain festival, but no one ever takes my stuff.TheScreamingEagles said:
Makes them lest likely to be stolen.Nigelb said:
Why would you buy footwear with graffiti on it ?TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG
https://www.timesofisrael.com/new-sneakers-claimed-to-resemble-adolf-hitler/0 -
Casino_Royale said:
It's the ECV buy spreads on Biden that are still open.Peter_the_Punter said:
Not sure what Sporting's rules were but no doubt different to Betfair and they did settle the obvious markets long ago.Casino_Royale said:
I've chasing Sporting Index this morning (yet to pay out) and they've assured me they will once their traders are in and have reviewed last night - they can't give me a time but should be today.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.
Can you send your charity details to me too please, Peter?Casino_Royale said:
It's the ECV buy spreads on Biden that are still open.Peter_the_Punter said:
Not sure what Sporting's rules were but no doubt different to Betfair and they did settle the obvious markets long ago.Casino_Royale said:
I've chasing Sporting Index this morning (yet to pay out) and they've assured me they will once their traders are in and have reviewed last night - they can't give me a time but should be today.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.
Can you send your charity details to me too please, Peter?
Sorry, I was joking! The charity I had in mind was my Christmas Fund.Casino_Royale said:
It's the ECV buy spreads on Biden that are still open.Peter_the_Punter said:
Not sure what Sporting's rules were but no doubt different to Betfair and they did settle the obvious markets long ago.Casino_Royale said:
I've chasing Sporting Index this morning (yet to pay out) and they've assured me they will once their traders are in and have reviewed last night - they can't give me a time but should be today.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.
Can you send your charity details to me too please, Peter?
Apologies. Mild joking doesn't always come across in print.
3 -
Mr. kle4, plenty of things worse than cliché. Subverting expectations for the sake of it, for example.
*sighs at the memory of Game of Thrones' final season*0 -
Unless by Banksy...TheScreamingEagles said:
Makes them lest likely to be stolen.Nigelb said:
Why would you buy footwear with graffiti on it ?TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG1 -
The rules stated that if there was doubt as to the projected winner they would wait for the official results.Peter_the_Punter said:
I had £10k locked in with them. That's a lot for me. When you have a lot held by a bookie, or exchange, you must be confident that they have clear rules, stick to them, apply them fairly and intelligently, and deal reasonably with complaints.Nigelb said:
I disagree slightly.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.
Betfair have certainly not covered themselves in glory over this, but paying out on the EC result is at least defensible. And to (apparently) settle so massive a market without significant delay, once the result was declared, gives me some confidence in their financial trustworthiness.
If they hadn't closed out the market last night, I would probably not have bet with them again.
Betfair failed on each count.
The projected winner was disputed by the President of the United States of America, lawyers in the courts and punters worldwide.
So they waited for the official results.
I see no qualms with that. Had they not paid yesterday I would but paying on the day the results become official seems reasonable when the results are being disputed. 🤷🏻♂️0 -
Good news on procurement from local businesses. Councils will be able (for small contracts) to restrict tendering by geography. This is a welcome change from the short-sighted insistence on lowest price, which is fine if it saves the council tax payers a bob or two but less fine if it leads to more local unemployment and fewer council tax payers.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/12/15/councils-hospitals-can-reserve-smaller-contracts-local-firms/1 -
Children in SE Asia.TOPPING said:
Nice trainers. Who are they made by?TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG4 -
Have all of them tightened?kamski said:
Yes, German states tightened both the general distancing rules, and the Christmas "relaxation" on Sunday, I don't think there is any reduction in most people's acceptance of the rules as a result of the changes.FrancisUrquhart said:
I don't get it...if they had come out yesterday and said new mutant variant, spreading, numbers too high, we need to massively scale back Christmas hall pass to 1-2 days, far better than trying to argue no change, but be careful.rottenborough said:Steve Barclay is the sacrifice cabinet member sent out to defend 'save xmas' disaster on R4 this morning.
Hospital staff are being asked to give availability on their planned days off over christmas + new year, in case things get bad. I guess it will be OK, but in January things will probably tight - hopefully people will be responsible over christmas! There are enough beds in the hospitals, I think, but the crunch will be if there are enough staff if there is a higher peak in January.
Local emergency/ICU department staff have been told they might be vaccinated starting next week - I'm a bit sceptical as approval hasn't happened yet, and I'm not sure if they have any doses, but we'll see.
I seem to recall Frau Merkel apologising that she could not make it happen a few days ago.0 -
I had a smidgen more, topped up after the TX SCOTUS decision. Their final tweet on the markets was beyond abysmal though. Really needs looking at.Peter_the_Punter said:
I had £10k locked in with them. That's a lot for me. When you have a lot held by a bookie, or exchange, you must be confident that they have clear rules, stick to them, apply them fairly and intelligently, and deal reasonably with complaints.Nigelb said:
I disagree slightly.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.
Betfair have certainly not covered themselves in glory over this, but paying out on the EC result is at least defensible. And to (apparently) settle so massive a market without significant delay, once the result was declared, gives me some confidence in their financial trustworthiness.
If they hadn't closed out the market last night, I would probably not have bet with them again.
Betfair failed on each count.0 -
To be entirely fair I have to say I think their original rules were fine.Nigelb said:
I agree - and I think their judgment in not settling earlier was deeply questionable, but it was at least marginally defensible.turbotubbs said:
At the risk of endlessly going over old issues (I mean we'd never do that on PB would we...) their initial rules were on projected, and were clearly too ambiguous. I would hope that in future they would reflect on this, and have more determined rules.Nigelb said:
I disagree slightly.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.
Betfair have certainly not covered themselves in glory over this, but paying out on the EC result is at least defensible. And to (apparently) settle so massive a market without significant delay, once the result was declared, gives me some confidence in their financial trustworthiness.
If they hadn't closed out the market last night, I would probably not have bet with them again.
If you bet on politics and know the US Political scene and its practices the phrase 'projected electoral votes' is perfectly clear. Most punters understood it correctly and so did Betfair because they paid out on the correct basis in many instances.
If there were any genuine doubt at any point they should have started by explaining exactly what their traders had in mind when the rules were framed. This would have closed off all doubt. What they actually did was change the rules, and confuse the matter with some dreadfully ill-worded PR statements and replies to complaints.
They are children, and shouldn't be permitted to play grown-up games.1 -
Its a widespread fallacy that rural areas are all middle class and affluent.SouthamObserver said:Really interesting map. There are a lot more traditionally Tory voting areas on here than I would have expected.
https://twitter.com/OwenWntr/status/1338519194506309634
Perhaps caused by too many twee TV series about rural vets and doctors plus urban rich having having second homes in a few scenic areas.2 -
I'd say the main difference between Hastings and Sandbanks is the topography not the climate.Gardenwalker said:
Three examples of wealthier towns than Hastings...Benpointer said:
Er, four examples Shirley?Gardenwalker said:
Yes.JohnLilburne said:
Even in Northern Europe? The climate is hardly conducive to living on the coast 12 months a year, especially if you are old.Gardenwalker said:Britain is quite unusual in that its most deprived areas tend to be around the coast.
In most other countries the coast is highly sought after; retirement towns for the wealthy old etc
There is no real climate difference between Hastings and Sandbanks, Ostend, Deauville to give three examples.
(Edit: Unless St Leonards-on-Sea has renamed itself Sandbanks - I wouldn't be surprised, it always has had delusions of grandeur.)0 -
When I started playing poker I had a discussion with my wife about whether it was morally okay to win money from stupid people (as the only way to win money at poker is to play with people more stupid than you). After going back and forward we decided it was morally fine as I was playing at low stakes and ultimately people are responsible for their actions.TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed, I feel a bit guilty taking money off these people.
I'll make a donation to a gambling charity with some of my winnings.
Obviously no moral problems gambling with bookies but Betfair raises the same thoughts that I had with Poker. I'd came to a stronger conclusion than Poker - betting on Betfair was almost identical to betting with bookies in my head. However this market has genuinely made me reconsider somewhat. I'm still got to bet on exchanges but I'm not so certain about my moral standing so much anymore.0 -
The rules specified in advance that if there is doubt they would wait for it to be official. What do you take that to mean if not what happened this year? We had a projection but it was doubted, challenged, unofficial and before the courts.Peter_the_Punter said:
To be entirely fair I have to say I think their original rules were fine.Nigelb said:
I agree - and I think their judgment in not settling earlier was deeply questionable, but it was at least marginally defensible.turbotubbs said:
At the risk of endlessly going over old issues (I mean we'd never do that on PB would we...) their initial rules were on projected, and were clearly too ambiguous. I would hope that in future they would reflect on this, and have more determined rules.Nigelb said:
I disagree slightly.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.
Betfair have certainly not covered themselves in glory over this, but paying out on the EC result is at least defensible. And to (apparently) settle so massive a market without significant delay, once the result was declared, gives me some confidence in their financial trustworthiness.
If they hadn't closed out the market last night, I would probably not have bet with them again.
If you bet on politics and know the US Political scene and its practices the phrase 'projected electoral votes' is perfectly clear. Most punters understood it correctly and so did Betfair because they paid out on the correct basis in many instances.
If there were any genuine doubt at any point they should have started by explaining exactly what their traders had in mind when the rules were framed. This would have closed off all doubt. What they actually did was change the rules, and confuse the matter with some dreadfully ill-worded PR statements and replies to complaints.
They are children, and shouldn't be permitted to play grown-up games.
In the nightmare scenario that Trump had won via SCOTUS then I don't see how Betfair could have avoided paying out to Trump punters since he would have been the official projected Electoral College votes winner yesterday.0 -
Bookies pay you with money gained from other people betting on losing outcomesAlistair said:Obviously no moral problems gambling with bookies but Betfair raises the same thoughts that I had with Poker. I'd came to a stronger conclusion than Poker. However this market has genuinely made me reconsider somewhat. I'm still got to bet on exchanges but I'm not so certain about my moral standing so much anymore.
How is that different from the exchanges?0 -
Donald and GiulianiTheScreamingEagles said:
Domestic and General I think.TOPPING said:
D&G? What does that stand for?TheScreamingEagles said:
D&G, I like the understated look.TOPPING said:
Nice trainers. Who are they made by?TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG1 -
Most of that £10k was of course stake. I turned a small loss into a small profit by betting at big odds on - on a race that was over. I considered putting more on. There was no doubt in my mind that Biden would be installed as President in due course. The element of doubt was whether Betfair would change the rules again, invent their own settlement conditions and do something unspeakably absurd, like defer payment until DT conceded.Pulpstar said:
I had a smidgen more, topped up after the TX SCOTUS decision. Their final tweet on the markets was beyond abysmal though. Really needs looking at.Peter_the_Punter said:
I had £10k locked in with them. That's a lot for me. When you have a lot held by a bookie, or exchange, you must be confident that they have clear rules, stick to them, apply them fairly and intelligently, and deal reasonably with complaints.Nigelb said:
I disagree slightly.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.
Betfair have certainly not covered themselves in glory over this, but paying out on the EC result is at least defensible. And to (apparently) settle so massive a market without significant delay, once the result was declared, gives me some confidence in their financial trustworthiness.
If they hadn't closed out the market last night, I would probably not have bet with them again.
Betfair failed on each count.
I couldn't take that risk so stopped when the betting bank was maxed out. Very inconvenient though. Had to forgo other investments - and I'm behind with the Christmas shopping!
1 -
It was well set up but rushed. I agree about plenty worse than cliche, but 'subverting for the sake of it' is a giant red flag of a complaint in my eyes as it's what many will say if they dont like something.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. kle4, plenty of things worse than cliché. Subverting expectations for the sake of it, for example.
*sighs at the memory of Game of Thrones' final season*0 -
Bookies do not always have a balanced book.Scott_xP said:
Bookies pay you with money gained from other people betting on losing outcomesAlistair said:Obviously no moral problems gambling with bookies but Betfair raises the same thoughts that I had with Poker. I'd came to a stronger conclusion than Poker. However this market has genuinely made me reconsider somewhat. I'm still got to bet on exchanges but I'm not so certain about my moral standing so much anymore.
How is that different from the exchanges?0 -
The currency symbol on the wrong side of the number is occasionally seen on pb.TheScreamingEagles said:
I have a few issues with this that makes me doubt if these bets/people exist.Alistair said:
First of all can Americans bet using Betfair, I thought they couldn't.
Secondly putting the € sign after the amount is a bit of a pointer, because we put the currency sign before the amount, except in Russia, where they do the opposite.
Of course I can imagine some Brits did keep betting on Trump well after election day, I had a few people telling me I had lost my money backing Biden.0 -
1
-
Philip_Thompson said:
The rules stated that if there was doubt as to the projected winner they would wait for the official results.Peter_the_Punter said:
I had £10k locked in with them. That's a lot for me. When you have a lot held by a bookie, or exchange, you must be confident that they have clear rules, stick to them, apply them fairly and intelligently, and deal reasonably with complaints.Nigelb said:
I disagree slightly.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.
Betfair have certainly not covered themselves in glory over this, but paying out on the EC result is at least defensible. And to (apparently) settle so massive a market without significant delay, once the result was declared, gives me some confidence in their financial trustworthiness.
If they hadn't closed out the market last night, I would probably not have bet with them again.
Betfair failed on each count.
The projected winner was disputed by the President of the United States of America, lawyers in the courts and punters worldwide.
So they waited for the official results.
I see no qualms with that. Had they not paid yesterday I would but paying on the day the results become official seems reasonable when the results are being disputed. 🤷🏻♂️
You are not a serious punter, Philip, and on the evidence of that post I'd say it's just as well.Philip_Thompson said:
The rules stated that if there was doubt as to the projected winner they would wait for the official results.Peter_the_Punter said:
I had £10k locked in with them. That's a lot for me. When you have a lot held by a bookie, or exchange, you must be confident that they have clear rules, stick to them, apply them fairly and intelligently, and deal reasonably with complaints.Nigelb said:
I disagree slightly.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.
Betfair have certainly not covered themselves in glory over this, but paying out on the EC result is at least defensible. And to (apparently) settle so massive a market without significant delay, once the result was declared, gives me some confidence in their financial trustworthiness.
If they hadn't closed out the market last night, I would probably not have bet with them again.
Betfair failed on each count.
The projected winner was disputed by the President of the United States of America, lawyers in the courts and punters worldwide.
So they waited for the official results.
I see no qualms with that. Had they not paid yesterday I would but paying on the day the results become official seems reasonable when the results are being disputed. 🤷🏻♂️1 -
Not really - the only reason people were not piling in for Biden was a fear of Betfair's behaviour, not because they thought Biden had not already won.Philip_Thompson said:
The rules stated that if there was doubt as to the projected winner they would wait for the official results.Peter_the_Punter said:
I had £10k locked in with them. That's a lot for me. When you have a lot held by a bookie, or exchange, you must be confident that they have clear rules, stick to them, apply them fairly and intelligently, and deal reasonably with complaints.Nigelb said:
I disagree slightly.Peter_the_Punter said:'What this has done to me is make me less confident about using Betfair as my primary betting exchange.'
Nice bit of understatement there, Mike!
Personally I wouldn't touch them with a shitty stick. I suppose I should be grateful that I've learned something about them whilst getting my money out eventually. They're a bunch of kids playing a game they don't understand.
Betdaq and Sporting Index will do just fine when the need arises, and of course the traditional bookies with whom I have never had a serious problem in a lifetime of punting.
Betfair have certainly not covered themselves in glory over this, but paying out on the EC result is at least defensible. And to (apparently) settle so massive a market without significant delay, once the result was declared, gives me some confidence in their financial trustworthiness.
If they hadn't closed out the market last night, I would probably not have bet with them again.
Betfair failed on each count.
The projected winner was disputed by the President of the United States of America, lawyers in the courts and punters worldwide.
So they waited for the official results.
I see no qualms with that. Had they not paid yesterday I would but paying on the day the results become official seems reasonable when the results are being disputed. 🤷🏻♂️1 -
I am guessing they are aimed at people in a retail trade for whom advertising is somewhat problematic.Northern_Al said:
FFS. My car cost less than those trainers.TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG0 -
What is it, a Model T?Northern_Al said:
FFS. My car cost less than those trainers.TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG0 -
Sporting Index have settled. At last!
Now I'm ready for the various wine merchants' January sales.2 -
45% is still way too high.Big_G_NorthWales said:Why am I not surprised
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1338775352160755713?s=19
There is clearly a significant percentage whose definition of 'handled it well' equates to 'handled it differently to England'.1 -
-
All of life is a gamble, Alistair, '...and mostly the odds are 5/4 against.' [Damon Runyon.]Alistair said:
When I started playing poker I had a discussion with my wife about whether it was morally okay to win money from stupid people (as the only way to win money at poker is to play with people more stupid than you). After going back and forward we decided it was morally fine as I was playing at low stakes and ultimately people are responsible for their actions.TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed, I feel a bit guilty taking money off these people.
I'll make a donation to a gambling charity with some of my winnings.
Obviously no moral problems gambling with bookies but Betfair raises the same thoughts that I had with Poker. I'd came to a stronger conclusion than Poker - betting on Betfair was almost identical to betting with bookies in my head. However this market has genuinely made me reconsider somewhat. I'm still got to bet on exchanges but I'm not so certain about my moral standing so much anymore.1 -
Stands out like a sore thumb when it happens.DecrepiterJohnL said:
The currency symbol on the wrong side of the number is occasionally seen on pb.TheScreamingEagles said:
I have a few issues with this that makes me doubt if these bets/people exist.Alistair said:
First of all can Americans bet using Betfair, I thought they couldn't.
Secondly putting the € sign after the amount is a bit of a pointer, because we put the currency sign before the amount, except in Russia, where they do the opposite.
Of course I can imagine some Brits did keep betting on Trump well after election day, I had a few people telling me I had lost my money backing Biden.0 -
The alternative - that it is aimed at naff twats with more money than sense - should of course never be spoken.IanB2 said:
I am guessing they are aimed at people in a retail trade for whom advertising is somewhat problematic.Northern_Al said:
FFS. My car cost less than those trainers.TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG1 -
Daft & Gaudy....RochdalePioneers said:
Donald and GiulianiTheScreamingEagles said:
Domestic and General I think.TOPPING said:
D&G? What does that stand for?TheScreamingEagles said:
D&G, I like the understated look.TOPPING said:
Nice trainers. Who are they made by?TheScreamingEagles said:So this is the first purchase with my 2020 election winnings.
Will wear them to the next PB meet up.
https://bit.ly/3nlJtWG1 -
I don't have a problem with when Betfair ultimately chose to pay out. I can see why they waited until votes were certified and those certifications were clear of challenge. Whilst I was derisive of Trump's "legal" challenges (they barely merit the word), I can see why a betting company works on the basis a challenge by the US President might succeed.
My concern, and where confidence has been hit, is that they were never clear on the position. Even yesterday, they were tweeting advice suggesting they'd wait until 6th January, or maybe even 20th January.
They had weeks to provide clarity and failed.To be honest, it would've been pretty easy and obvious to say a day or two after the election, "Trump is intent on challenging the results in various states. We'll pay out when he (or Biden) concedes or when the Electoral College votes, whichever is earlier". For a market worth millions, it wasn't that tricky.2 -
They do it in Germany too, though not consistently.DecrepiterJohnL said:
The currency symbol on the wrong side of the number is occasionally seen on pb.TheScreamingEagles said:
I have a few issues with this that makes me doubt if these bets/people exist.Alistair said:
First of all can Americans bet using Betfair, I thought they couldn't.
Secondly putting the € sign after the amount is a bit of a pointer, because we put the currency sign before the amount, except in Russia, where they do the opposite.
Of course I can imagine some Brits did keep betting on Trump well after election day, I had a few people telling me I had lost my money backing Biden.0 -
Good news that Betfair have finally (!) settled POTUS. They should have done so as soon as sufficient states were called to get Biden over 270. Which was what seems like a lifetime ago.
And now a plea to the media. Please PLEASE stop reporting Donald Trump's continuing rejection of democracy as him "not giving up".
This gives the wrong vibe entirely. Makes him sound like some inspirational plucky underdog refusing to buckle under the pressure and, despite the odds being stacked against him, bravely battling on for the win that could yet be his.0 -
If you are quite happy to use the adjective stupid to describe your fellow human beings, I'd argue you have a few more moral issues than whether you bet or not.Alistair said:
When I started playing poker I had a discussion with my wife about whether it was morally okay to win money from stupid people (as the only way to win money at poker is to play with people more stupid than you). After going back and forward we decided it was morally fine as I was playing at low stakes and ultimately people are responsible for their actions.TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed, I feel a bit guilty taking money off these people.
I'll make a donation to a gambling charity with some of my winnings.
Obviously no moral problems gambling with bookies but Betfair raises the same thoughts that I had with Poker. I'd came to a stronger conclusion than Poker - betting on Betfair was almost identical to betting with bookies in my head. However this market has genuinely made me reconsider somewhat. I'm still got to bet on exchanges but I'm not so certain about my moral standing so much anymore.0
