Two warnings for Johnson in today’s YouGov poll – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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The BBC's Laura Kuenssberg said the evening had "plainly gone badly" and the chances of the UK leaving the post-Brexit transition period at the end of the year without a firm arrangement was a "big step closer".0
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BBC News - Joe Biden's son Hunter says he is under investigation over taxes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-552541820 -
No doubt President Trump will pardon him.FrancisUrquhart said:BBC News - Joe Biden's son Hunter says he is under investigation over taxes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-552541821 -
Until I read that, I thought there was a serious chance of No Deal happening.FrancisUrquhart said:The BBC's Laura Kuenssberg said the evening had "plainly gone badly" and the chances of the UK leaving the post-Brexit transition period at the end of the year without a firm arrangement was a "big step closer".
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Waiting for Peston's take....and then betting on the opposite.rcs1000 said:
Until I read that, I thought there was a serious chance of No Deal happening.FrancisUrquhart said:The BBC's Laura Kuenssberg said the evening had "plainly gone badly" and the chances of the UK leaving the post-Brexit transition period at the end of the year without a firm arrangement was a "big step closer".
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Indeed. That was actually pushed heavily on the BBC One 6 and 10 Main News though.FrancisUrquhart said:
One thing that hasn't got anywhere near coverage is the 0% hospitalisation from those who got the vaccine.Nigelb said:Good article on the AZN results reported in the Lancet.
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/12/09/the-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-efficacy-data
One thing he doesn’t mention is that for a large number of countries, it will be available in bulk a good six months before the two which have been demonstrated to be more significantly effective.
Which moves the risk/benefit calculation significantly in its favour.0 -
Well I was expecting to wake up to the tentative signs of a deal being struck.
I'm not convinced the EU will back down, which is presumably why they think the ball is in Johnson's court.0 -
I think the strategy will be "Moderna and Pfizer for the oldies, carehomes and hospitals; and AZN for the plebs."Mysticrose said:
Indeed. That was actually pushed heavily on the BBC One 6 and 10 Main News though.FrancisUrquhart said:
One thing that hasn't got anywhere near coverage is the 0% hospitalisation from those who got the vaccine.Nigelb said:Good article on the AZN results reported in the Lancet.
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/12/09/the-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-efficacy-data
One thing he doesn’t mention is that for a large number of countries, it will be available in bulk a good six months before the two which have been demonstrated to be more significantly effective.
Which moves the risk/benefit calculation significantly in its favour.0 -
GeForce Now is completely overloaded thanks to Cyberpunk 2077. (Three minutes!)0
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Are you suggesting that the countries in the EU employ zero civil servants? That the EU 32k do the lot?No_Offence_Alan said:
Really? The EU employs about 32,000 civil servants.Philip_Thompson said:
The UK has not got this wrong. The EU is you are right a terrible organisation that can't organise a piss up in a brewery that much is true. That is also why we are leaving. Good riddance.Richard_Nabavi said:
Rule number 1 of any half-decent sales or negotiating course: understand who makes the decisions. The UK has got this wrong all along. It's not Barnier, or the Commission, or Ursula van der Leyen. Nor is it Merkel, or Macron, individually, so there's no point trying to deal with them on the side. Instead you have to work with the internal horse-trading dynamics of the EU, which are complex.Philip_Thompson said:
If the EU don't want to put it's principle decision makers who have authority to compromise in the room then what is Boris supposed to do?Richard_Nabavi said:It's important to remember that Ursula von der Leyen has no authority to make material changes to the EU's agreed position. So there was zero possibility of this cosy dinner producing any concessions from EU side. The most it could have produced is an undertaking from her to consult with the EU premiers to see whether any UK proposal for a possible way out of the impasse might be acceptable. It's very hard to know if the UK did make any such proposal; if Boris simply repeated the Brexiteer nonsense about sovereignty without proposing anything new, then we're heading for no-deal crash-out. In that scenario, bad for the EU and disastrous for the UK, the EU will simply wait for the UK to come to its senses.
If someone doesn't have authority to compromise then it should be escalated to whoever does and they should be in the room.
We used to have people who understood all this. They got booted out. People like Sir Ivan Rogers:
On 11 October 2018, in Cambridge, Rogers delivered a lecture on "Brexit as Revolution", in which he said that he continued to think that the risks of an accidental "no deal" Brexit caused by persistent British misreading of others' incentives and views, and by the EU's frequent inability to comprehend UK politics, were higher than was in the price.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Rogers
Since the Brexit referendum, the UK Government has taken on an extra 40,000 civil servants.1 -
Waking up to that SpaceX launch test video was as good as hearing that hypocrites Kay Burley and Beth Rigby are fighting for their jobs0
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Did you know that the EXCELLENT The Gravy Train stars a very young Christoph Waltz and is available to stream legally for free?felix said:
Are you suggesting that the countries in the EU employ zero civil servants? That the EU 32k do the lot?No_Offence_Alan said:
Really? The EU employs about 32,000 civil servants.Philip_Thompson said:
The UK has not got this wrong. The EU is you are right a terrible organisation that can't organise a piss up in a brewery that much is true. That is also why we are leaving. Good riddance.Richard_Nabavi said:
Rule number 1 of any half-decent sales or negotiating course: understand who makes the decisions. The UK has got this wrong all along. It's not Barnier, or the Commission, or Ursula van der Leyen. Nor is it Merkel, or Macron, individually, so there's no point trying to deal with them on the side. Instead you have to work with the internal horse-trading dynamics of the EU, which are complex.Philip_Thompson said:
If the EU don't want to put it's principle decision makers who have authority to compromise in the room then what is Boris supposed to do?Richard_Nabavi said:It's important to remember that Ursula von der Leyen has no authority to make material changes to the EU's agreed position. So there was zero possibility of this cosy dinner producing any concessions from EU side. The most it could have produced is an undertaking from her to consult with the EU premiers to see whether any UK proposal for a possible way out of the impasse might be acceptable. It's very hard to know if the UK did make any such proposal; if Boris simply repeated the Brexiteer nonsense about sovereignty without proposing anything new, then we're heading for no-deal crash-out. In that scenario, bad for the EU and disastrous for the UK, the EU will simply wait for the UK to come to its senses.
If someone doesn't have authority to compromise then it should be escalated to whoever does and they should be in the room.
We used to have people who understood all this. They got booted out. People like Sir Ivan Rogers:
On 11 October 2018, in Cambridge, Rogers delivered a lecture on "Brexit as Revolution", in which he said that he continued to think that the risks of an accidental "no deal" Brexit caused by persistent British misreading of others' incentives and views, and by the EU's frequent inability to comprehend UK politics, were higher than was in the price.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Rogers
Since the Brexit referendum, the UK Government has taken on an extra 40,000 civil servants.0 -
I foolishly engaged in an argument on Twitter about the US election, and had thrown in my face "how can you know anything about the US when your own country can't deal with Islamic terrorism"...
They then claimed that the UK government imprisoned anyone who dared tell the truth about Islamic terrorism in the UK.
I suggested they tried their analytical skills here, but they didn't seem keen.0 -
Bloody hell.
Cyberpunk seems to have taken down the Internet.0 -
I am trying to work out how BJ will spin this.....apart from blame Berlin/Paris/Brussels (delete as applicable) he will need to explain to the wider Conservative party (CBI backers, old school Tories, the city financers,) what will have gone wrong if things turn out badly - the JCB crashing through the "Get Brexit done" wall aint going to cut it and I cant see any political wins from this situation for No.10.0
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He'll be gone within a few months if there's no deal, I think. The hardcore constituency wouldn't save him from the wrath of business tories.1
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That sounds like a Tommy Robinson reference. He was jailed for contempt of court, and nearly caused a trial to be abandoned.rcs1000 said:I foolishly engaged in an argument on Twitter about the US election, and had thrown in my face "how can you know anything about the US when your own country can't deal with Islamic terrorism"...
They then claimed that the UK government imprisoned anyone who dared tell the truth about Islamic terrorism in the UK.
I suggested they tried their analytical skills here, but they didn't seem keen.
How do American judges deal with people intentionally disrupting court proceedings?1 -
As I said here from the day the AZ test results came out. Not least because we only have enough Pfizer orders for the first 20 million on the list, which puts the break point at about age 65.rcs1000 said:
I think the strategy will be "Moderna and Pfizer for the oldies, carehomes and hospitals; and AZN for the plebs."Mysticrose said:
Indeed. That was actually pushed heavily on the BBC One 6 and 10 Main News though.FrancisUrquhart said:
One thing that hasn't got anywhere near coverage is the 0% hospitalisation from those who got the vaccine.Nigelb said:Good article on the AZN results reported in the Lancet.
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/12/09/the-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-efficacy-data
One thing he doesn’t mention is that for a large number of countries, it will be available in bulk a good six months before the two which have been demonstrated to be more significantly effective.
Which moves the risk/benefit calculation significantly in its favour.0 -
I don't think that's correct: your figures are a bit out there.IanB2 said:
As I said here from the day the AZ test results came out. Not least because we only have enough Pfizer orders for the first 20 million on the list, which puts the break point at about age 65.rcs1000 said:
I think the strategy will be "Moderna and Pfizer for the oldies, carehomes and hospitals; and AZN for the plebs."Mysticrose said:
Indeed. That was actually pushed heavily on the BBC One 6 and 10 Main News though.FrancisUrquhart said:
One thing that hasn't got anywhere near coverage is the 0% hospitalisation from those who got the vaccine.Nigelb said:Good article on the AZN results reported in the Lancet.
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/12/09/the-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-efficacy-data
One thing he doesn’t mention is that for a large number of countries, it will be available in bulk a good six months before the two which have been demonstrated to be more significantly effective.
Which moves the risk/benefit calculation significantly in its favour.
The Gov't are hinting that everyone over 55 may be given the Pfizer vaccine, which is c. 20 million people.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/281174/uk-population-by-age/
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I don't think that's correct: your figures are a bit out there.IanB2 said:
As I said here from the day the AZ test results came out. Not least because we only have enough Pfizer orders for the first 20 million on the list, which puts the break point at about age 65.rcs1000 said:
I think the strategy will be "Moderna and Pfizer for the oldies, carehomes and hospitals; and AZN for the plebs."Mysticrose said:
Indeed. That was actually pushed heavily on the BBC One 6 and 10 Main News though.FrancisUrquhart said:
One thing that hasn't got anywhere near coverage is the 0% hospitalisation from those who got the vaccine.Nigelb said:Good article on the AZN results reported in the Lancet.
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/12/09/the-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-efficacy-data
One thing he doesn’t mention is that for a large number of countries, it will be available in bulk a good six months before the two which have been demonstrated to be more significantly effective.
Which moves the risk/benefit calculation significantly in its favour.
The Gov't are hinting that everyone over 55 may be given the Pfizer vaccine, which is c. 20 million people.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/281174/uk-population-by-age/
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Basically everyone in Categories 1-8 will be offered Pfizer / Moderna. Not everyone will take it up, of course. There may be sufficient to offer it to category 9 but my understanding is that under 55's will be offered AZN-Oxford.0
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I think their solution is to sequester the jury. That's a PITA for the jury but the First Amendment prevents them from using the British solution of letting the jury do what they like and sequestering everybody else.Sandpit said:
That sounds like a Tommy Robinson reference. He was jailed for contempt of court, and nearly caused a trial to be abandoned.rcs1000 said:I foolishly engaged in an argument on Twitter about the US election, and had thrown in my face "how can you know anything about the US when your own country can't deal with Islamic terrorism"...
They then claimed that the UK government imprisoned anyone who dared tell the truth about Islamic terrorism in the UK.
I suggested they tried their analytical skills here, but they didn't seem keen.
How do American judges deal with people intentionally disrupting court proceedings?0 -
What was “the truth”?rcs1000 said:I foolishly engaged in an argument on Twitter about the US election, and had thrown in my face "how can you know anything about the US when your own country can't deal with Islamic terrorism"...
They then claimed that the UK government imprisoned anyone who dared tell the truth about Islamic terrorism in the UK.
I suggested they tried their analytical skills here, but they didn't seem keen.
Soros behind it, perhaps ?0 -
You set a minimum IQ hurdle by spelling the site name subtly wrong, thankfully.rcs1000 said:
I suggested they tried their analytical skills here, but they didn't seem keen.0 -
Trump supporters that use a degree of reason or sanity are like rocking horse shit on twitterrcs1000 said:I foolishly engaged in an argument on Twitter about the US election, and had thrown in my face "how can you know anything about the US when your own country can't deal with Islamic terrorism"...
They then claimed that the UK government imprisoned anyone who dared tell the truth about Islamic terrorism in the UK.
I suggested they tried their analytical skills here, but they didn't seem keen.0 -
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With reference to last night’s debate on the American Civil War, @Alistair was quite correct to point out that comparatively few soldiers died in battle in that war. In fact, just one third of them died in battle or of wounds received in battle, with cholera, dysentery, typhus, pneumonia and measles accounting for the rest. So it’s not at all implausible that the current pandemic is killing more every day than died on almost any given day of the Civil War.
As for Towton, contemporary sources put the dead at around 25,000 which seems a little unlikely (to put it in context, that’s the number that died in the bombing of Dresden and 25% more than died on the first day of the Somme). And only one mass grave with 37 dead in it has ever been found.
However 3000 dead seems on the low side given that the Lancastrian army was almost completely destroyed - it took four years to form another one, and even then it was pitifully small by comparison. So given the likely size of the army ten thousand dead does not seem a ridiculous figure.
In this the Yorkists were helped by the weather - allowing them to shoot their arrows downwind shielded by snow, virtually without reply - and by the geography of the battlefield, which trapped the Lancastrians between two cliffs and a swollen brook that couldn’t be forded. Even today, you look at the site and wince at how easy it would be for an army to be trapped and annihilated there.1 -
Oh, Mr Thompson! "A fully functioning democracy" indeed....... This country is a long way from that.....Philip_Thompson said:And the UK is a fully functioning democracy.
The EU is 27 disperse nations that can't between them agree anyone to sit in a room with Boris as equals able to make a decision or compromise.2 -
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Nowhere in that article does anyone accuse Boris Johnson of failure - other than the headline writer.Scott_xP said:
Trash journalism. Retweeted by Scott.3 -
I have an investment in Holiday Property Bonds, a company which owns a number of holiday sites across Britain and (mainly Western) Europe. It's not timeshare, in that one can go at any time..... provided of course there is space. Members tend to be older, although of course some early members have passed on their holdings to younger people.swing_voter said:I am trying to work out how BJ will spin this.....apart from blame Berlin/Paris/Brussels (delete as applicable) he will need to explain to the wider Conservative party (CBI backers, old school Tories, the city financers,) what will have gone wrong if things turn out badly - the JCB crashing through the "Get Brexit done" wall aint going to cut it and I cant see any political wins from this situation for No.10.
The news about not be able to go to to the Western European sites is beginning to spread alarm and despondency on the Bondholders Facebook page.0 -
Possibly; my assessment was rough and ready. But I did make allowance for those health workers, care homes workers, and people with existing medical conditions, which will use up some of the 20 million before it is fully distributed by age.Mysticrose said:
I don't think that's correct: your figures are a bit out there.IanB2 said:
As I said here from the day the AZ test results came out. Not least because we only have enough Pfizer orders for the first 20 million on the list, which puts the break point at about age 65.rcs1000 said:
I think the strategy will be "Moderna and Pfizer for the oldies, carehomes and hospitals; and AZN for the plebs."Mysticrose said:
Indeed. That was actually pushed heavily on the BBC One 6 and 10 Main News though.FrancisUrquhart said:
One thing that hasn't got anywhere near coverage is the 0% hospitalisation from those who got the vaccine.Nigelb said:Good article on the AZN results reported in the Lancet.
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/12/09/the-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-efficacy-data
One thing he doesn’t mention is that for a large number of countries, it will be available in bulk a good six months before the two which have been demonstrated to be more significantly effective.
Which moves the risk/benefit calculation significantly in its favour.
The Gov't are hinting that everyone over 55 may be given the Pfizer vaccine, which is c. 20 million people.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/281174/uk-population-by-age/
On the other hand, there may be a level of refusals, enabling the doses to be spread further down the profile - although anecdotally it seems mainly younger people who are those more likely to refuse.0 -
My wife went to the hairdressers yesterday and was remarking that she hoped to have the vaccine as soon as. The hairdresser, a woman in the 30's said that no way was she having it, look at what was in it, and she'd told her mother, who is apparently a care home worker, to refuse it.IanB2 said:
Possibly; my assessment was rough and ready. But I did make allowance for those health workers, care homes workers, and people with existing medical conditions, which will use up some of the 20 million before it is fully distributed by age.Mysticrose said:
I don't think that's correct: your figures are a bit out there.IanB2 said:
As I said here from the day the AZ test results came out. Not least because we only have enough Pfizer orders for the first 20 million on the list, which puts the break point at about age 65.rcs1000 said:
I think the strategy will be "Moderna and Pfizer for the oldies, carehomes and hospitals; and AZN for the plebs."Mysticrose said:
Indeed. That was actually pushed heavily on the BBC One 6 and 10 Main News though.FrancisUrquhart said:
One thing that hasn't got anywhere near coverage is the 0% hospitalisation from those who got the vaccine.Nigelb said:Good article on the AZN results reported in the Lancet.
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/12/09/the-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-efficacy-data
One thing he doesn’t mention is that for a large number of countries, it will be available in bulk a good six months before the two which have been demonstrated to be more significantly effective.
Which moves the risk/benefit calculation significantly in its favour.
The Gov't are hinting that everyone over 55 may be given the Pfizer vaccine, which is c. 20 million people.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/281174/uk-population-by-age/
On the other hand, there may be a level of refusals, enabling the doses to be spread further down the profile - although anecdotally it seems mainly younger people who are those more likely to refuse.
Sad.1 -
Perhaps the most appalling US Civil War casualty stat was the number dying in prison camps such as Andersonville and Camp Douglas.ydoethur said:With reference to last night’s debate on the American Civil War, @Alistair was quite correct to point out that comparatively few soldiers died in battle in that war. In fact, just one third of them died in battle or of wounds received in battle, with cholera, dysentery, typhus, pneumonia and measles accounting for the rest. So it’s not at all implausible that the current pandemic is killing more every day than died on almost any given day of the Civil War.
As for Towton, contemporary sources put the dead at around 25,000 which seems a little unlikely (to put it in context, that’s the number that died in the bombing of Dresden and 25% more than died on the first day of the Somme). And only one mass grave with 37 dead in it has ever been found.
However 3000 dead seems on the low side given that the Lancastrian army was almost completely destroyed - it took four years to form another one, and even then it was pitifully small by comparison. So given the likely size of the army ten thousand dead does not seem a ridiculous figure.
In this the Yorkists were helped by the weather - allowing them to shoot their arrows downwind shielded by snow, virtually without reply - and by the geography of the battlefield, which trapped the Lancastrians between two cliffs and a swollen brook that couldn’t be forded. Even today, you look at the site and wince at how easy it would be for an army to be trapped and annihilated there.0 -
Are you suggesting that the countries in the EU employ zero civil servants? That the EU 32k do the lot?No_Offence_Alan said:
Really? The EU employs about 32,000 civil servants.Philip_Thompson said:
The UK has not got this wrong. The EU is you are right a terrible organisation that can't organise a piss up in a brewery that much is true. That is also why we are leaving. Good riddance.Richard_Nabavi said:
Rule number 1 of any half-decent sales or negotiating course: understand who makes the decisions. The UK has got this wrong all along. It's not Barnier, or the Commission, or Ursula van der Leyen. Nor is it Merkel, or Macron, individually, so there's no point trying to deal with them on the side. Instead you have to work with the internal horse-trading dynamics of the EU, which are complex.Philip_Thompson said:
If the EU don't want to put it's principle decision makers who have authority to compromise in the room then what is Boris supposed to do?Richard_Nabavi said:It's important to remember that Ursula von der Leyen has no authority to make material changes to the EU's agreed position. So there was zero possibility of this cosy dinner producing any concessions from EU side. The most it could have produced is an undertaking from her to consult with the EU premiers to see whether any UK proposal for a possible way out of the impasse might be acceptable. It's very hard to know if the UK did make any such proposal; if Boris simply repeated the Brexiteer nonsense about sovereignty without proposing anything new, then we're heading for no-deal crash-out. In that scenario, bad for the EU and disastrous for the UK, the EU will simply wait for the UK to come to its senses.
If someone doesn't have authority to compromise then it should be escalated to whoever does and they should be in the room.
We used to have people who understood all this. They got booted out. People like Sir Ivan Rogers:
On 11 October 2018, in Cambridge, Rogers delivered a lecture on "Brexit as Revolution", in which he said that he continued to think that the risks of an accidental "no deal" Brexit caused by persistent British misreading of others' incentives and views, and by the EU's frequent inability to comprehend UK politics, were higher than was in the price.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Rogers
Since the Brexit referendum, the UK Government has taken on an extra 40,000 civil servants.
You've been chatting in the telephone box again with your party's MPs - spoiler, sandals are no longer a thing!ClippP said:
Oh, Mr Thompson! "A fully functioning democracy" indeed....... This country is a long way from that.....Philip_Thompson said:And the UK is a fully functioning democracy.
The EU is 27 disperse nations that can't between them agree anyone to sit in a room with Boris as equals able to make a decision or compromise.
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Yet the US civil war casualties, even those in or consequential to battle, are of the same magnitude as those in WW2, at a time when US population was very significantly lower, and there were some very bloody battles. Add in those who died from disease and the civil war death toll was much greater.ydoethur said:With reference to last night’s debate on the American Civil War, @Alistair was quite correct to point out that comparatively few soldiers died in battle in that war. In fact, just one third of them died in battle or of wounds received in battle, with cholera, dysentery, typhus, pneumonia and measles accounting for the rest. So it’s not at all implausible that the current pandemic is killing more every day than died on almost any given day of the Civil War.
As for Towton, contemporary sources put the dead at around 25,000 which seems a little unlikely (to put it in context, that’s the number that died in the bombing of Dresden and 25% more than died on the first day of the Somme). And only one mass grave with 37 dead in it has ever been found.
However 3000 dead seems on the low side given that the Lancastrian army was almost completely destroyed - it took four years to form another one, and even then it was pitifully small by comparison. So given the likely size of the army ten thousand dead does not seem a ridiculous figure.
In this the Yorkists were helped by the weather - allowing them to shoot their arrows downwind shielded by snow, virtually without reply - and by the geography of the battlefield, which trapped the Lancastrians between two cliffs and a swollen brook that couldn’t be forded. Even today, you look at the site and wince at how easy it would be for an army to be trapped and annihilated there.0 -
So what was the purpose and outcome of Boris's late night dinner in Brussels? Presumably not to get an agreement. Von der Leyen has no power or mandate to make such an agreement, even with Barnier alongside. The focus had to be the next 2 days of the EU summit (which they want to be about other things such as their budget discussions), making it clear where the UK was not willing to budge and where there might be some room for manoeuvre.
Will this have the desired effect? Its looking increasingly unlikely but its not impossible. I quite liked the unnamed diplomat's analysis quoted on the BBC. The UK is demanding the right to do things it will never do and the EU is demanding the right to stop things that the UK would not contemplate.
I do think that we are right at the point where the smart thing to do is to give up and focus on the practicalities. So we need mini agreements that will facilitate border arrangements such as Gove's NI trusted trader regime, visa free travel, mutual recognition of standards where they remain the same etc. My understanding that flight arrangements etc have already been agreed but I am not clear if that is caught up in the nothing is agreed until everything has been agreed trap. If so that will need sorted out too. Time is short.
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She's been saying much the same for the past 4 years.Scott_xP said:2 -
We have one of their places a mile from where I live near Mojacar in SE Spain. Been effectively closed all year due to Covid. You really need to be pretty well heeled as it is very upmarket - I'd be surprised if many members will struggle for the few further months of Covid restrictions. I'd also expect Spain to be one of the first countries to ease the passage for tourists back into the country post Covid. The country's tourist trade cannot survive without British tourists in fairly large numbers.OldKingCole said:
I have an investment in Holiday Property Bonds, a company which owns a number of holiday sites across Britain and (mainly Western) Europe. It's not timeshare, in that one can go at any time..... provided of course there is space. Members tend to be older, although of course some early members have passed on their holdings to younger people.swing_voter said:I am trying to work out how BJ will spin this.....apart from blame Berlin/Paris/Brussels (delete as applicable) he will need to explain to the wider Conservative party (CBI backers, old school Tories, the city financers,) what will have gone wrong if things turn out badly - the JCB crashing through the "Get Brexit done" wall aint going to cut it and I cant see any political wins from this situation for No.10.
The news about not be able to go to to the Western European sites is beginning to spread alarm and despondency on the Bondholders Facebook page.0 -
Or trash PB’ing given these extracts from that very article?:MarqueeMark said:
Nowhere in that article does anyone accuse Boris Johnson of failure - other than the headline writer.Scott_xP said:
Trash journalism. Retweeted by Scott.
Boris Johnson is being accused of failure....
Labour is claiming that a year after Mr Johnson promised an "oven-ready deal" he has failed to deliver what he promised...
....were billed as a make-or-break attempt to salvage a Brexit deal... failed to achieve the breakthrough hoped for by both sides
Angela Rayner tweeted: "One year after Boris Johnson promised us an oven-ready deal he has completely failed”
Ian Blackford tweeted: "A no deal would be a massive failure of diplomacy and leadership which @BorisJohnson has to take ownership of.”0 -
The earlier chat about Civil WEar deaths. I belive the total of deaths included the hundreds of thousands who died of disease not bullets. The death toll amongst that group was horrific, both sides washed and bathed , ofen in the same river, one upstream polluting the other with their throwaways and excrement!.0
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Really - is that what we call informed political comment these days - fat shaming and undertones of xenophobia?Scott_xP said:5 -
When Johnson spoke of the oven-ready deal referred, that referred to the WA. As for Blackford's tweet, there is a conditional in there.IanB2 said:
Or trash PB’ing given these extracts from that very article?:MarqueeMark said:
Nowhere in that article does anyone accuse Boris Johnson of failure - other than the headline writer.Scott_xP said:
Trash journalism. Retweeted by Scott.
Boris Johnson is being accused of failure....
Labour is claiming that a year after Mr Johnson promised an "oven-ready deal" he has failed to deliver what he promised...
....were billed as a make-or-break attempt to salvage a Brexit deal... failed to achieve the breakthrough hoped for by both sides
Angela Rayner tweeted: "One year after Boris Johnson promised us an oven-ready deal he has completely failed”
Ian Blackford tweeted: "A no deal would be a massive failure of diplomacy and leadership which @BorisJohnson has to take ownership of.”1 -
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I am surprised that yesterday Cunard cancelled almost all of its May 2021 cruises, so far ahead. We can reasonably expect most of their demographic in both the UK and US to be vaccinated by then.OldKingCole said:
I have an investment in Holiday Property Bonds, a company which owns a number of holiday sites across Britain and (mainly Western) Europe. It's not timeshare, in that one can go at any time..... provided of course there is space. Members tend to be older, although of course some early members have passed on their holdings to younger people.swing_voter said:I am trying to work out how BJ will spin this.....apart from blame Berlin/Paris/Brussels (delete as applicable) he will need to explain to the wider Conservative party (CBI backers, old school Tories, the city financers,) what will have gone wrong if things turn out badly - the JCB crashing through the "Get Brexit done" wall aint going to cut it and I cant see any political wins from this situation for No.10.
The news about not be able to go to to the Western European sites is beginning to spread alarm and despondency on the Bondholders Facebook page.0 -
https://twitter.com/rjbarfield1/status/1335897769274470401RobD said:When Johnson spoke of the oven-ready deal referred, that referred to the WA.
0 -
I always assumed he was referring to Sylvia Plath.RobD said:
When Johnson spoke of the oven-ready deal referred, that referred to the WA. As for Blackford's tweet, there is a conditional in there.IanB2 said:
Or trash PB’ing given these extracts from that very article?:MarqueeMark said:
Nowhere in that article does anyone accuse Boris Johnson of failure - other than the headline writer.Scott_xP said:
Trash journalism. Retweeted by Scott.
Boris Johnson is being accused of failure....
Labour is claiming that a year after Mr Johnson promised an "oven-ready deal" he has failed to deliver what he promised...
....were billed as a make-or-break attempt to salvage a Brexit deal... failed to achieve the breakthrough hoped for by both sides
Angela Rayner tweeted: "One year after Boris Johnson promised us an oven-ready deal he has completely failed”
Ian Blackford tweeted: "A no deal would be a massive failure of diplomacy and leadership which @BorisJohnson has to take ownership of.”0 -
Holy crap , I hope he has a day job to fall back on that is hideousFrancisUrquhart said:0 -
Sounds like there needs to be a concerted public information campaign, with the media onside, about vaccination.OldKingCole said:
My wife went to the hairdressers yesterday and was remarking that she hoped to have the vaccine as soon as. The hairdresser, a woman in the 30's said that no way was she having it, look at what was in it, and she'd told her mother, who is apparently a care home worker, to refuse it.IanB2 said:
Possibly; my assessment was rough and ready. But I did make allowance for those health workers, care homes workers, and people with existing medical conditions, which will use up some of the 20 million before it is fully distributed by age.Mysticrose said:
I don't think that's correct: your figures are a bit out there.IanB2 said:
As I said here from the day the AZ test results came out. Not least because we only have enough Pfizer orders for the first 20 million on the list, which puts the break point at about age 65.rcs1000 said:
I think the strategy will be "Moderna and Pfizer for the oldies, carehomes and hospitals; and AZN for the plebs."Mysticrose said:
Indeed. That was actually pushed heavily on the BBC One 6 and 10 Main News though.FrancisUrquhart said:
One thing that hasn't got anywhere near coverage is the 0% hospitalisation from those who got the vaccine.Nigelb said:Good article on the AZN results reported in the Lancet.
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/12/09/the-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-efficacy-data
One thing he doesn’t mention is that for a large number of countries, it will be available in bulk a good six months before the two which have been demonstrated to be more significantly effective.
Which moves the risk/benefit calculation significantly in its favour.
The Gov't are hinting that everyone over 55 may be given the Pfizer vaccine, which is c. 20 million people.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/281174/uk-population-by-age/
On the other hand, there may be a level of refusals, enabling the doses to be spread further down the profile - although anecdotally it seems mainly younger people who are those more likely to refuse.
Sad.
There’s a small window of opportunity, with a couple of high profile TV journalists in trouble over their behaviour, for government to strong-arm the media into some semblance of responsibility.
The gold standard for a public information campaign is probably the AIDS campaign in the 1980s, I suggest we get Saachi and Saachi back to come up with something similar.
Also really important to flood Facebook - this is where the anti-vaxxers are hanging out, talking to each other. Publically shame Facebook as a company if they won’t do this for free.1 -
A lot of the members are early/recent retirees, who like to go South for the winter, or at least a couple of weeks. Although we once met a couple who'd booked three places, one after the other, to spend three months in the warm!felix said:
We have one of their places a mile from where I live near Mojacar in SE Spain. Been effectively closed all year due to Covid. You really need to be pretty well heeled as it is very upmarket - I'd be surprised if many members will struggle for the few further months of Covid restrictions. I'd also expect Spain to be one of the first countries to ease the passage for tourists back into the country post Covid. The country's tourist trade cannot survive without British tourists in fairly large numbers.OldKingCole said:
I have an investment in Holiday Property Bonds, a company which owns a number of holiday sites across Britain and (mainly Western) Europe. It's not timeshare, in that one can go at any time..... provided of course there is space. Members tend to be older, although of course some early members have passed on their holdings to younger people.swing_voter said:I am trying to work out how BJ will spin this.....apart from blame Berlin/Paris/Brussels (delete as applicable) he will need to explain to the wider Conservative party (CBI backers, old school Tories, the city financers,) what will have gone wrong if things turn out badly - the JCB crashing through the "Get Brexit done" wall aint going to cut it and I cant see any political wins from this situation for No.10.
The news about not be able to go to to the Western European sites is beginning to spread alarm and despondency on the Bondholders Facebook page.
Retired bus driver, IIRC!0 -
You and I both know that isn't true. Various government minsters made to look like utter tits trying to make that line stick - they get paid to be laughed at. You don't.RobD said:
When Johnson spoke of the oven-ready deal referred, that referred to the WA. As for Blackford's tweet, there is a conditional in there.IanB2 said:
Or trash PB’ing given these extracts from that very article?:MarqueeMark said:
Nowhere in that article does anyone accuse Boris Johnson of failure - other than the headline writer.Scott_xP said:
Trash journalism. Retweeted by Scott.
Boris Johnson is being accused of failure....
Labour is claiming that a year after Mr Johnson promised an "oven-ready deal" he has failed to deliver what he promised...
....were billed as a make-or-break attempt to salvage a Brexit deal... failed to achieve the breakthrough hoped for by both sides
Angela Rayner tweeted: "One year after Boris Johnson promised us an oven-ready deal he has completely failed”
Ian Blackford tweeted: "A no deal would be a massive failure of diplomacy and leadership which @BorisJohnson has to take ownership of.”3 -
Once Boris gets his Aces out of his pocket ,, we will be just fine.Mysticrose said:Well I was expecting to wake up to the tentative signs of a deal being struck.
I'm not convinced the EU will back down, which is presumably why they think the ball is in Johnson's court.2 -
A light shade that seems completely impervious to light may have some conceptual issues to work on.malcolmg said:
Holy crap , I hope he has a day job to fall back on that is hideousFrancisUrquhart said:1 -
I was just going by what he said in the Telegraph article, the debut of that phrase.RochdalePioneers said:
You and I both know that isn't true. Various government minsters made to look like utter tits trying to make that line stick - they get paid to be laughed at. You don't.RobD said:
When Johnson spoke of the oven-ready deal referred, that referred to the WA. As for Blackford's tweet, there is a conditional in there.IanB2 said:
Or trash PB’ing given these extracts from that very article?:MarqueeMark said:
Nowhere in that article does anyone accuse Boris Johnson of failure - other than the headline writer.Scott_xP said:
Trash journalism. Retweeted by Scott.
Boris Johnson is being accused of failure....
Labour is claiming that a year after Mr Johnson promised an "oven-ready deal" he has failed to deliver what he promised...
....were billed as a make-or-break attempt to salvage a Brexit deal... failed to achieve the breakthrough hoped for by both sides
Angela Rayner tweeted: "One year after Boris Johnson promised us an oven-ready deal he has completely failed”
Ian Blackford tweeted: "A no deal would be a massive failure of diplomacy and leadership which @BorisJohnson has to take ownership of.”0 -
Have to say they look like two tramps dragged off the street. It does really highlight how far the UK has fallen on every level. Led by lying fat tramp like donkeys or lying slimeball odious creeps. The inbreeding at the top has gone on a bit too long I am afraid.DavidL said:0 -
Spectacular test of Starship last night. So many major milestones ticked off in a single flight. For all the talk of "NASA will be on the moon in 2024" they need to get a move on. SLS - unflown, untested and 4 years behind schedule...1
-
So apart from the journalist who wrote the article, and the political correspondent and a stack of politicians quoted within it, it was “just the headline writer”?RobD said:
When Johnson spoke of the oven-ready deal referred, that referred to the WA. As for Blackford's tweet, there is a conditional in there.IanB2 said:
Or trash PB’ing given these extracts from that very article?:MarqueeMark said:
Nowhere in that article does anyone accuse Boris Johnson of failure - other than the headline writer.Scott_xP said:
Trash journalism. Retweeted by Scott.
Boris Johnson is being accused of failure....
Labour is claiming that a year after Mr Johnson promised an "oven-ready deal" he has failed to deliver what he promised...
....were billed as a make-or-break attempt to salvage a Brexit deal... failed to achieve the breakthrough hoped for by both sides
Angela Rayner tweeted: "One year after Boris Johnson promised us an oven-ready deal he has completely failed”
Ian Blackford tweeted: "A no deal would be a massive failure of diplomacy and leadership which @BorisJohnson has to take ownership of.”
Right.0 -
The cult cannot accept their messiah has feet of clayRobD said:
When Johnson spoke of the oven-ready deal referred, that referred to the WA. As for Blackford's tweet, there is a conditional in there.IanB2 said:
Or trash PB’ing given these extracts from that very article?:MarqueeMark said:
Nowhere in that article does anyone accuse Boris Johnson of failure - other than the headline writer.Scott_xP said:
Trash journalism. Retweeted by Scott.
Boris Johnson is being accused of failure....
Labour is claiming that a year after Mr Johnson promised an "oven-ready deal" he has failed to deliver what he promised...
....were billed as a make-or-break attempt to salvage a Brexit deal... failed to achieve the breakthrough hoped for by both sides
Angela Rayner tweeted: "One year after Boris Johnson promised us an oven-ready deal he has completely failed”
Ian Blackford tweeted: "A no deal would be a massive failure of diplomacy and leadership which @BorisJohnson has to take ownership of.”0 -
It's very expensive - prices way above the norm in our area - we use a restaurant just outside the complex and I've met many of them. Tourists on the bread line they are not. Either way - once the Covid restrictions are eased they will be back - regardless of Brexit. If not it'll go bust which would be hard on the local economy and the reason why Spain will ease the path for British tourism.OldKingCole said:
A lot of the members are early/recent retirees, who like to go South for the winter, or at least a couple of weeks. Although we once met a couple who'd booked three places, one after the other, to spend three months in the warm!felix said:
We have one of their places a mile from where I live near Mojacar in SE Spain. Been effectively closed all year due to Covid. You really need to be pretty well heeled as it is very upmarket - I'd be surprised if many members will struggle for the few further months of Covid restrictions. I'd also expect Spain to be one of the first countries to ease the passage for tourists back into the country post Covid. The country's tourist trade cannot survive without British tourists in fairly large numbers.OldKingCole said:
I have an investment in Holiday Property Bonds, a company which owns a number of holiday sites across Britain and (mainly Western) Europe. It's not timeshare, in that one can go at any time..... provided of course there is space. Members tend to be older, although of course some early members have passed on their holdings to younger people.swing_voter said:I am trying to work out how BJ will spin this.....apart from blame Berlin/Paris/Brussels (delete as applicable) he will need to explain to the wider Conservative party (CBI backers, old school Tories, the city financers,) what will have gone wrong if things turn out badly - the JCB crashing through the "Get Brexit done" wall aint going to cut it and I cant see any political wins from this situation for No.10.
The news about not be able to go to to the Western European sites is beginning to spread alarm and despondency on the Bondholders Facebook page.
Retired bus driver, IIRC!0 -
-
You may see Boris Johnson and David Frost as great symbols of the UK, David, but others see them as grubby, second-raters who have made promises to the British people that they are not capable of keeping. There is nothing xenophobic or unpatriotic about the scorning them when their incompetence, mediocrity and, in the case of Johnson, demonstrable mendacity are not only putting this country's well-being at stake, but also its very future.DavidL said:
9 -
Tory 2019 manifesto explicitly promised to deliver a Brexit deal including a trade deal this year. Three weeks to go.RobD said:
I was just going by what he said in the Telegraph article, the debut of that phrase.RochdalePioneers said:
You and I both know that isn't true. Various government minsters made to look like utter tits trying to make that line stick - they get paid to be laughed at. You don't.RobD said:
When Johnson spoke of the oven-ready deal referred, that referred to the WA. As for Blackford's tweet, there is a conditional in there.IanB2 said:
Or trash PB’ing given these extracts from that very article?:MarqueeMark said:
Nowhere in that article does anyone accuse Boris Johnson of failure - other than the headline writer.Scott_xP said:
Trash journalism. Retweeted by Scott.
Boris Johnson is being accused of failure....
Labour is claiming that a year after Mr Johnson promised an "oven-ready deal" he has failed to deliver what he promised...
....were billed as a make-or-break attempt to salvage a Brexit deal... failed to achieve the breakthrough hoped for by both sides
Angela Rayner tweeted: "One year after Boris Johnson promised us an oven-ready deal he has completely failed”
Ian Blackford tweeted: "A no deal would be a massive failure of diplomacy and leadership which @BorisJohnson has to take ownership of.”0 -
Wasn’t it just! They came damn close to nailing that pivot landing on the first attempt, astonishing what they’ve done for space travel in a few short years.RochdalePioneers said:Spectacular test of Starship last night. So many major milestones ticked off in a single flight. For all the talk of "NASA will be on the moon in 2024" they need to get a move on. SLS - unflown, untested and 4 years behind schedule...
0 -
The ships need to be crewed, though, and given where crews mostly come from that does present significant covid risk.IanB2 said:
I am surprised that yesterday Cunard cancelled almost all of its May 2021 cruises, so far ahead. We can reasonably expect most of their demographic in both the UK and US to be vaccinated by then.OldKingCole said:
I have an investment in Holiday Property Bonds, a company which owns a number of holiday sites across Britain and (mainly Western) Europe. It's not timeshare, in that one can go at any time..... provided of course there is space. Members tend to be older, although of course some early members have passed on their holdings to younger people.swing_voter said:I am trying to work out how BJ will spin this.....apart from blame Berlin/Paris/Brussels (delete as applicable) he will need to explain to the wider Conservative party (CBI backers, old school Tories, the city financers,) what will have gone wrong if things turn out badly - the JCB crashing through the "Get Brexit done" wall aint going to cut it and I cant see any political wins from this situation for No.10.
The news about not be able to go to to the Western European sites is beginning to spread alarm and despondency on the Bondholders Facebook page.
0 -
Frostie looks like Steve Bruce having a day at the races.Scott_xP said:0 -
The explosives must have been oven-ready ?Scott_xP said:0 -
Succinct and well said.SouthamObserver said:
You may see Boris Johnson and David Frost as great symbols of the UK, David, but others see them as grubby, second-raters who have made promises to the British people that they are not capable of keeping. There is nothing xenophobic or unpatriotic about the scorning them when their incompetence, mediocrity and, in the case of Johnson, demonstrable mendacity are not only putting this country's well-being at stake, but also its very future.DavidL said:2 -
There will be big insurance premium rises to deal with for all UK travellers to the EU as from next year. For the elderly, the costs could become prohibitive.felix said:
It's very expensive - prices way above the norm in our area - we use a restaurant just outside the complex and I've met many of them. Tourists on the bread line they are not. Either way - once the Covid restrictions are eased they will be back - regardless of Brexit. If not it'll go bust which would be hard on the local economy and the reason why Spain will ease the path for British tourism.OldKingCole said:
A lot of the members are early/recent retirees, who like to go South for the winter, or at least a couple of weeks. Although we once met a couple who'd booked three places, one after the other, to spend three months in the warm!felix said:
We have one of their places a mile from where I live near Mojacar in SE Spain. Been effectively closed all year due to Covid. You really need to be pretty well heeled as it is very upmarket - I'd be surprised if many members will struggle for the few further months of Covid restrictions. I'd also expect Spain to be one of the first countries to ease the passage for tourists back into the country post Covid. The country's tourist trade cannot survive without British tourists in fairly large numbers.OldKingCole said:
I have an investment in Holiday Property Bonds, a company which owns a number of holiday sites across Britain and (mainly Western) Europe. It's not timeshare, in that one can go at any time..... provided of course there is space. Members tend to be older, although of course some early members have passed on their holdings to younger people.swing_voter said:I am trying to work out how BJ will spin this.....apart from blame Berlin/Paris/Brussels (delete as applicable) he will need to explain to the wider Conservative party (CBI backers, old school Tories, the city financers,) what will have gone wrong if things turn out badly - the JCB crashing through the "Get Brexit done" wall aint going to cut it and I cant see any political wins from this situation for No.10.
The news about not be able to go to to the Western European sites is beginning to spread alarm and despondency on the Bondholders Facebook page.
Retired bus driver, IIRC!
0 -
It still remains the mystery of modern life, a technology the Human Race had in 1969 which it does not have now.RochdalePioneers said:Spectacular test of Starship last night. So many major milestones ticked off in a single flight. For all the talk of "NASA will be on the moon in 2024" they need to get a move on. SLS - unflown, untested and 4 years behind schedule...
1 -
The withdrawal of the contentious clauses in the IMB will have made a No Deal on less than openly hostile terms much more feasible. Where the EU sees advantages in striking mini deals, there is much more chance of it happening now. That is a good thing.DavidL said:So what was the purpose and outcome of Boris's late night dinner in Brussels? Presumably not to get an agreement. Von der Leyen has no power or mandate to make such an agreement, even with Barnier alongside. The focus had to be the next 2 days of the EU summit (which they want to be about other things such as their budget discussions), making it clear where the UK was not willing to budge and where there might be some room for manoeuvre.
Will this have the desired effect? Its looking increasingly unlikely but its not impossible. I quite liked the unnamed diplomat's analysis quoted on the BBC. The UK is demanding the right to do things it will never do and the EU is demanding the right to stop things that the UK would not contemplate.
I do think that we are right at the point where the smart thing to do is to give up and focus on the practicalities. So we need mini agreements that will facilitate border arrangements such as Gove's NI trusted trader regime, visa free travel, mutual recognition of standards where they remain the same etc. My understanding that flight arrangements etc have already been agreed but I am not clear if that is caught up in the nothing is agreed until everything has been agreed trap. If so that will need sorted out too. Time is short.
5 -
Same as supersonic commercial air travel.NerysHughes said:
It still remains the mystery of modern life, a technology the Human Race had in 1969 which it does not have now.RochdalePioneers said:Spectacular test of Starship last night. So many major milestones ticked off in a single flight. For all the talk of "NASA will be on the moon in 2024" they need to get a move on. SLS - unflown, untested and 4 years behind schedule...
(Not that I see the biggest failure of my life so far, as being the failure to call the bank manager and ask for a loan when they announced the retirement of Concorde. Not at all).0 -
Yes. But their crew won’t be.IanB2 said:
I am surprised that yesterday Cunard cancelled almost all of its May 2021 cruises, so far ahead. We can reasonably expect most of their demographic in both the UK and US to be vaccinated by then.OldKingCole said:
I have an investment in Holiday Property Bonds, a company which owns a number of holiday sites across Britain and (mainly Western) Europe. It's not timeshare, in that one can go at any time..... provided of course there is space. Members tend to be older, although of course some early members have passed on their holdings to younger people.swing_voter said:I am trying to work out how BJ will spin this.....apart from blame Berlin/Paris/Brussels (delete as applicable) he will need to explain to the wider Conservative party (CBI backers, old school Tories, the city financers,) what will have gone wrong if things turn out badly - the JCB crashing through the "Get Brexit done" wall aint going to cut it and I cant see any political wins from this situation for No.10.
The news about not be able to go to to the Western European sites is beginning to spread alarm and despondency on the Bondholders Facebook page.1 -
You're far too kind.SouthamObserver said:
You may see Boris Johnson and David Frost as great symbols of the UK, David, but others see them as grubby, second-raters who have made promises to the British people that they are not capable of keeping.DavidL said:
Johnson is a ninth-rate chancer.1 -
A technology we had no real use for.NerysHughes said:
It still remains the mystery of modern life, a technology the Human Race had in 1969 which it does not have now.RochdalePioneers said:Spectacular test of Starship last night. So many major milestones ticked off in a single flight. For all the talk of "NASA will be on the moon in 2024" they need to get a move on. SLS - unflown, untested and 4 years behind schedule...
The space race led to a myriad of developments that were useful but man on the moon was done to show they could do it. Once they had continuing to go there lacked any great feasible purpose.
SpaceX mean that when man returns to the moon it will be affordable and repeatable much more. Going on to Mars or building a lunar base becomes much more viable.0 -
Because it seems pretty pointless.NerysHughes said:
It still remains the mystery of modern life, a technology the Human Race had in 1969 which it does not have now.RochdalePioneers said:Spectacular test of Starship last night. So many major milestones ticked off in a single flight. For all the talk of "NASA will be on the moon in 2024" they need to get a move on. SLS - unflown, untested and 4 years behind schedule...
Okay okay I know I know ... one day when we get a ship that gets close to light speed it'll be worth it but the fact is that we're nowhere near that. Pottering around our own solar system for most people is very 'meh.' The universe is vast. So is our galaxy.
I write this by the way as a keen amateur astronomer. I'd rather see the investment going into telescopes. I have next to zero interest in Elon Musk's latest venture.
0 -
In 1969 an extraordinary percentage of the US economy was devoted to a vanity project, putting a man on the moon.NerysHughes said:
It still remains the mystery of modern life, a technology the Human Race had in 1969 which it does not have now.RochdalePioneers said:Spectacular test of Starship last night. So many major milestones ticked off in a single flight. For all the talk of "NASA will be on the moon in 2024" they need to get a move on. SLS - unflown, untested and 4 years behind schedule...
Fifty years later, a wealthy individual looks likely to be able to achieve the same thing.
What was once the preserve of governments has become the preseve of the rich, and in time will be common place.3 -
True north of the border too.....malcolmg said:
The cult cannot accept their messiah has feet of clayRobD said:
When Johnson spoke of the oven-ready deal referred, that referred to the WA. As for Blackford's tweet, there is a conditional in there.IanB2 said:
Or trash PB’ing given these extracts from that very article?:MarqueeMark said:
Nowhere in that article does anyone accuse Boris Johnson of failure - other than the headline writer.Scott_xP said:
Trash journalism. Retweeted by Scott.
Boris Johnson is being accused of failure....
Labour is claiming that a year after Mr Johnson promised an "oven-ready deal" he has failed to deliver what he promised...
....were billed as a make-or-break attempt to salvage a Brexit deal... failed to achieve the breakthrough hoped for by both sides
Angela Rayner tweeted: "One year after Boris Johnson promised us an oven-ready deal he has completely failed”
Ian Blackford tweeted: "A no deal would be a massive failure of diplomacy and leadership which @BorisJohnson has to take ownership of.”0 -
To be fair, that’s Boris as a journalist quoting the guy responsible for EU buildings saying it will have to fall because of asbestos.Scott_xP said:
Presumably it’s still full of asbestos today?0 -
Who can he mean? .........malcolmg said:
The cult cannot accept their messiah has feet of clayRobD said:
When Johnson spoke of the oven-ready deal referred, that referred to the WA. As for Blackford's tweet, there is a conditional in there.IanB2 said:
Or trash PB’ing given these extracts from that very article?:MarqueeMark said:
Nowhere in that article does anyone accuse Boris Johnson of failure - other than the headline writer.Scott_xP said:
Trash journalism. Retweeted by Scott.
Boris Johnson is being accused of failure....
Labour is claiming that a year after Mr Johnson promised an "oven-ready deal" he has failed to deliver what he promised...
....were billed as a make-or-break attempt to salvage a Brexit deal... failed to achieve the breakthrough hoped for by both sides
Angela Rayner tweeted: "One year after Boris Johnson promised us an oven-ready deal he has completely failed”
Ian Blackford tweeted: "A no deal would be a massive failure of diplomacy and leadership which @BorisJohnson has to take ownership of.” I'm thinking fish.. 0 -
It was of course however closed for years and entirely refitted and rebuilt at a cost about ten times what Johnson quoted in his article.Scott_xP said:1 -
On the subject of vaccine nationalism, I thought it was a real faux pas and a crying shame that Boris Johnson cheapened Tuesday by saying that it was 'a great day for the UK.' It was but a politician of gravitas would have said that it was a great day for the world.1
-
Yes, the rich will always have freedom of movement in practice, if not in law. Money to pay for visas, insurances and agents fees helps a great deal. Perhaps global warming will make Skegness more appealing to the rest.felix said:
It's very expensive - prices way above the norm in our area - we use a restaurant just outside the complex and I've met many of them. Tourists on the bread line they are not. Either way - once the Covid restrictions are eased they will be back - regardless of Brexit. If not it'll go bust which would be hard on the local economy and the reason why Spain will ease the path for British tourism.OldKingCole said:
A lot of the members are early/recent retirees, who like to go South for the winter, or at least a couple of weeks. Although we once met a couple who'd booked three places, one after the other, to spend three months in the warm!felix said:
We have one of their places a mile from where I live near Mojacar in SE Spain. Been effectively closed all year due to Covid. You really need to be pretty well heeled as it is very upmarket - I'd be surprised if many members will struggle for the few further months of Covid restrictions. I'd also expect Spain to be one of the first countries to ease the passage for tourists back into the country post Covid. The country's tourist trade cannot survive without British tourists in fairly large numbers.OldKingCole said:
I have an investment in Holiday Property Bonds, a company which owns a number of holiday sites across Britain and (mainly Western) Europe. It's not timeshare, in that one can go at any time..... provided of course there is space. Members tend to be older, although of course some early members have passed on their holdings to younger people.swing_voter said:I am trying to work out how BJ will spin this.....apart from blame Berlin/Paris/Brussels (delete as applicable) he will need to explain to the wider Conservative party (CBI backers, old school Tories, the city financers,) what will have gone wrong if things turn out badly - the JCB crashing through the "Get Brexit done" wall aint going to cut it and I cant see any political wins from this situation for No.10.
The news about not be able to go to to the Western European sites is beginning to spread alarm and despondency on the Bondholders Facebook page.
Retired bus driver, IIRC!0 -
Indeed - someone who lies so frequently to the British people and with such abandon demonstrates total contempt for them. The fact he deliberately chooses to dress like a tramp is the icing on the cake.Foxy said:
2 -
Then Spain will suffer - as ever it takes to - in this case - not tango.SouthamObserver said:
There will be big insurance premium rises to deal with for all UK travellers to the EU as from next year. For the elderly, the costs could become prohibitive.felix said:
It's very expensive - prices way above the norm in our area - we use a restaurant just outside the complex and I've met many of them. Tourists on the bread line they are not. Either way - once the Covid restrictions are eased they will be back - regardless of Brexit. If not it'll go bust which would be hard on the local economy and the reason why Spain will ease the path for British tourism.OldKingCole said:
A lot of the members are early/recent retirees, who like to go South for the winter, or at least a couple of weeks. Although we once met a couple who'd booked three places, one after the other, to spend three months in the warm!felix said:
We have one of their places a mile from where I live near Mojacar in SE Spain. Been effectively closed all year due to Covid. You really need to be pretty well heeled as it is very upmarket - I'd be surprised if many members will struggle for the few further months of Covid restrictions. I'd also expect Spain to be one of the first countries to ease the passage for tourists back into the country post Covid. The country's tourist trade cannot survive without British tourists in fairly large numbers.OldKingCole said:
I have an investment in Holiday Property Bonds, a company which owns a number of holiday sites across Britain and (mainly Western) Europe. It's not timeshare, in that one can go at any time..... provided of course there is space. Members tend to be older, although of course some early members have passed on their holdings to younger people.swing_voter said:I am trying to work out how BJ will spin this.....apart from blame Berlin/Paris/Brussels (delete as applicable) he will need to explain to the wider Conservative party (CBI backers, old school Tories, the city financers,) what will have gone wrong if things turn out badly - the JCB crashing through the "Get Brexit done" wall aint going to cut it and I cant see any political wins from this situation for No.10.
The news about not be able to go to to the Western European sites is beginning to spread alarm and despondency on the Bondholders Facebook page.
Retired bus driver, IIRC!0 -
It's hardly surprising that Johnson getting officially involved in the talks has made no difference, given that all previous evidence suggests that he understands almost none of the issues, and certainly not at a sufficient level of detail to make him any help whatsoever.
All he does is deal in broad brush slogans, which can only be any good for advancing general positions for use in political sloganising and campaigns, and absolutely useless for the nitty gritty of trade negotiations where the devil is (or always should be) in the detail, especially where there is a need to find paths between apparently irreconcilable positions.
Imagine, for one hypothetical moment, that there was some magical deal that emerged over the next few days. Does anyone seriously think that it wouldn't fall apart in ten minutes once anybody actually explained to him what he had agreed, and his backbenchers started sounding off about it?1 -
No they removed it.Sandpit said:
To be fair, that’s Boris as a journalist quoting the guy responsible for EU buildings saying it will have to fall because of asbestos.Scott_xP said:
Presumably it’s still full of asbestos today?
Johnson quoted £60mn at the cost of refitting it. The EU spent £625mn.1 -
Question: at what point in the vaccine program, is it going to be considered ethical by the media for them to be available privately? The context being international business travellers and those working in hospitality.CarlottaVance said:
Yes. But their crew won’t be.IanB2 said:
I am surprised that yesterday Cunard cancelled almost all of its May 2021 cruises, so far ahead. We can reasonably expect most of their demographic in both the UK and US to be vaccinated by then.OldKingCole said:
I have an investment in Holiday Property Bonds, a company which owns a number of holiday sites across Britain and (mainly Western) Europe. It's not timeshare, in that one can go at any time..... provided of course there is space. Members tend to be older, although of course some early members have passed on their holdings to younger people.swing_voter said:I am trying to work out how BJ will spin this.....apart from blame Berlin/Paris/Brussels (delete as applicable) he will need to explain to the wider Conservative party (CBI backers, old school Tories, the city financers,) what will have gone wrong if things turn out badly - the JCB crashing through the "Get Brexit done" wall aint going to cut it and I cant see any political wins from this situation for No.10.
The news about not be able to go to to the Western European sites is beginning to spread alarm and despondency on the Bondholders Facebook page.0 -
Truly informed political comment - suggesting a trip to Saville row a diet and the EU will cave. Got it.Foxy said:1 -
It will get rich older Brits and slightly fewer of the rest of us. And the rest of Europe in the usual way. I can't see that being a huge issue.felix said:
Then Spain will suffer - as ever it takes to - in this case - not tango.SouthamObserver said:
There will be big insurance premium rises to deal with for all UK travellers to the EU as from next year. For the elderly, the costs could become prohibitive.felix said:
It's very expensive - prices way above the norm in our area - we use a restaurant just outside the complex and I've met many of them. Tourists on the bread line they are not. Either way - once the Covid restrictions are eased they will be back - regardless of Brexit. If not it'll go bust which would be hard on the local economy and the reason why Spain will ease the path for British tourism.OldKingCole said:
A lot of the members are early/recent retirees, who like to go South for the winter, or at least a couple of weeks. Although we once met a couple who'd booked three places, one after the other, to spend three months in the warm!felix said:
We have one of their places a mile from where I live near Mojacar in SE Spain. Been effectively closed all year due to Covid. You really need to be pretty well heeled as it is very upmarket - I'd be surprised if many members will struggle for the few further months of Covid restrictions. I'd also expect Spain to be one of the first countries to ease the passage for tourists back into the country post Covid. The country's tourist trade cannot survive without British tourists in fairly large numbers.OldKingCole said:
I have an investment in Holiday Property Bonds, a company which owns a number of holiday sites across Britain and (mainly Western) Europe. It's not timeshare, in that one can go at any time..... provided of course there is space. Members tend to be older, although of course some early members have passed on their holdings to younger people.swing_voter said:I am trying to work out how BJ will spin this.....apart from blame Berlin/Paris/Brussels (delete as applicable) he will need to explain to the wider Conservative party (CBI backers, old school Tories, the city financers,) what will have gone wrong if things turn out badly - the JCB crashing through the "Get Brexit done" wall aint going to cut it and I cant see any political wins from this situation for No.10.
The news about not be able to go to to the Western European sites is beginning to spread alarm and despondency on the Bondholders Facebook page.
Retired bus driver, IIRC!
0 -
So - little real impact. I agree.SouthamObserver said:
It will get rich older Brits and slightly fewer of the rest of us. And the rest of Europe in the usual way. I can't see that being a huge issue.felix said:
Then Spain will suffer - as ever it takes to - in this case - not tango.SouthamObserver said:
There will be big insurance premium rises to deal with for all UK travellers to the EU as from next year. For the elderly, the costs could become prohibitive.felix said:
It's very expensive - prices way above the norm in our area - we use a restaurant just outside the complex and I've met many of them. Tourists on the bread line they are not. Either way - once the Covid restrictions are eased they will be back - regardless of Brexit. If not it'll go bust which would be hard on the local economy and the reason why Spain will ease the path for British tourism.OldKingCole said:
A lot of the members are early/recent retirees, who like to go South for the winter, or at least a couple of weeks. Although we once met a couple who'd booked three places, one after the other, to spend three months in the warm!felix said:
We have one of their places a mile from where I live near Mojacar in SE Spain. Been effectively closed all year due to Covid. You really need to be pretty well heeled as it is very upmarket - I'd be surprised if many members will struggle for the few further months of Covid restrictions. I'd also expect Spain to be one of the first countries to ease the passage for tourists back into the country post Covid. The country's tourist trade cannot survive without British tourists in fairly large numbers.OldKingCole said:
I have an investment in Holiday Property Bonds, a company which owns a number of holiday sites across Britain and (mainly Western) Europe. It's not timeshare, in that one can go at any time..... provided of course there is space. Members tend to be older, although of course some early members have passed on their holdings to younger people.swing_voter said:I am trying to work out how BJ will spin this.....apart from blame Berlin/Paris/Brussels (delete as applicable) he will need to explain to the wider Conservative party (CBI backers, old school Tories, the city financers,) what will have gone wrong if things turn out badly - the JCB crashing through the "Get Brexit done" wall aint going to cut it and I cant see any political wins from this situation for No.10.
The news about not be able to go to to the Western European sites is beginning to spread alarm and despondency on the Bondholders Facebook page.
Retired bus driver, IIRC!0 -
So maintaining the icon of a building was considered to be worth more than half a billion to EU taxpayers, by EU officials?Philip_Thompson said:
No they removed it.Sandpit said:
To be fair, that’s Boris as a journalist quoting the guy responsible for EU buildings saying it will have to fall because of asbestos.Scott_xP said:
Presumably it’s still full of asbestos today?
Johnson quoted £60mn at the cost of refitting it. The EU spent £625mn.
Maybe that’s why we voted to leave.1 -
I'm not sure if this is true or not, but i heard suggestions that EHIC was going to continue for pensioners.SouthamObserver said:
There will be big insurance premium rises to deal with for all UK travellers to the EU as from next year. For the elderly, the costs could become prohibitive.felix said:
It's very expensive - prices way above the norm in our area - we use a restaurant just outside the complex and I've met many of them. Tourists on the bread line they are not. Either way - once the Covid restrictions are eased they will be back - regardless of Brexit. If not it'll go bust which would be hard on the local economy and the reason why Spain will ease the path for British tourism.OldKingCole said:
A lot of the members are early/recent retirees, who like to go South for the winter, or at least a couple of weeks. Although we once met a couple who'd booked three places, one after the other, to spend three months in the warm!felix said:
We have one of their places a mile from where I live near Mojacar in SE Spain. Been effectively closed all year due to Covid. You really need to be pretty well heeled as it is very upmarket - I'd be surprised if many members will struggle for the few further months of Covid restrictions. I'd also expect Spain to be one of the first countries to ease the passage for tourists back into the country post Covid. The country's tourist trade cannot survive without British tourists in fairly large numbers.OldKingCole said:
I have an investment in Holiday Property Bonds, a company which owns a number of holiday sites across Britain and (mainly Western) Europe. It's not timeshare, in that one can go at any time..... provided of course there is space. Members tend to be older, although of course some early members have passed on their holdings to younger people.swing_voter said:I am trying to work out how BJ will spin this.....apart from blame Berlin/Paris/Brussels (delete as applicable) he will need to explain to the wider Conservative party (CBI backers, old school Tories, the city financers,) what will have gone wrong if things turn out badly - the JCB crashing through the "Get Brexit done" wall aint going to cut it and I cant see any political wins from this situation for No.10.
The news about not be able to go to to the Western European sites is beginning to spread alarm and despondency on the Bondholders Facebook page.
Retired bus driver, IIRC!0 -
You do realise don't you that David Frost with him in the talks is rather involved in the nitty gritty?alex_ said:It's hardly surprising that Johnson getting officially involved in the talks has made no difference, given that all previous evidence suggests that he understands almost none of the issues, and certainly not at a sufficient level of detail to make him any help whatsoever.
All he does is deal in broad brush slogans, which can only be any good for advancing general positions for use in political sloganising and campaigns, and absolutely useless for the nitty gritty of trade negotiations where the devil is (or always should be) in the detail, especially where there is a need to find paths between apparently irreconcilable positions.
Imagine, for one hypothetical moment, that there was some magical deal that emerged over the next few days. Does anyone seriously think that it wouldn't fall apart in ten minutes once anybody actually explained to him what he had agreed, and his backbenchers started sounding off about it?
A bit more than his backbenchers are.0 -
Mine (AXA) have already told me that it will remain unchanged, actually this year's quote was slightly lower. Although I am admittedly not elderly.felix said:
Then Spain will suffer - as ever it takes to - in this case - not tango.SouthamObserver said:
There will be big insurance premium rises to deal with for all UK travellers to the EU as from next year. For the elderly, the costs could become prohibitive.felix said:
It's very expensive - prices way above the norm in our area - we use a restaurant just outside the complex and I've met many of them. Tourists on the bread line they are not. Either way - once the Covid restrictions are eased they will be back - regardless of Brexit. If not it'll go bust which would be hard on the local economy and the reason why Spain will ease the path for British tourism.OldKingCole said:
A lot of the members are early/recent retirees, who like to go South for the winter, or at least a couple of weeks. Although we once met a couple who'd booked three places, one after the other, to spend three months in the warm!felix said:
We have one of their places a mile from where I live near Mojacar in SE Spain. Been effectively closed all year due to Covid. You really need to be pretty well heeled as it is very upmarket - I'd be surprised if many members will struggle for the few further months of Covid restrictions. I'd also expect Spain to be one of the first countries to ease the passage for tourists back into the country post Covid. The country's tourist trade cannot survive without British tourists in fairly large numbers.OldKingCole said:
I have an investment in Holiday Property Bonds, a company which owns a number of holiday sites across Britain and (mainly Western) Europe. It's not timeshare, in that one can go at any time..... provided of course there is space. Members tend to be older, although of course some early members have passed on their holdings to younger people.swing_voter said:I am trying to work out how BJ will spin this.....apart from blame Berlin/Paris/Brussels (delete as applicable) he will need to explain to the wider Conservative party (CBI backers, old school Tories, the city financers,) what will have gone wrong if things turn out badly - the JCB crashing through the "Get Brexit done" wall aint going to cut it and I cant see any political wins from this situation for No.10.
The news about not be able to go to to the Western European sites is beginning to spread alarm and despondency on the Bondholders Facebook page.
Retired bus driver, IIRC!2
