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Two warnings for Johnson in today’s YouGov poll – politicalbetting.com

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  • California seems to be a centre of do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do politicians:

    California Governor Gavin Newsom last month apologised after he was caught dining with lobbyists and members of the California Medical Association, all without masks, at a crowded table for 12 in a swanky restaurant in Napa Valley.

    He initially claimed the meal at the Michelin-starred French Laundry, where some prix fixe plates go for $450 per person, took place outdoors. But photos emerged showing the space had a roof, three walls and another wall with sliding glass doors.

    This week Mr Newsom warned he was considering "dramatic, arguably drastic" stay-at-home orders to tackle surging coronavirus caseload in the state.

    It has since emerged that one night after Mr Newsom dined at the French Laundry, San Francisco Mayor London Breed attended a birthday party for a socialite at the same restaurant.

    The meal took place as Ms Breed was urging residents to stay at home and avoid socialising, reports the San Francisco Chronicle.

    In other recent cases involving Democrats:

    On Tuesday, the mayor of San Jose, California, Sam Liccardo, apologised for attending a Thanksgiving dinner with family members from five households - more than state regulations allowed

    A delegation of California lawmakers jetted off to a resort in Maui, Hawaii, for a conference with lobbyists as state residents were being instructed to avoid nonessential travel

    California Senator Dianne Feinstein - who has called for congressional coronavirus aid to be made conditional on states imposing mask mandates - was photographed at the US Capitol and at an airport without any face-covering

    US House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi, also of California, was pictured without a mask inside a hair salon, breaking rules that only allow service outdoors, but she refused to apologise

    Los Angeles County Supervisor Sheila Kuehl dined outdoors at her favourite restaurant — shortly after voting to uphold a ban on outdoor dining, which she said endangered serving staff


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55168634
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    I see the Trumpton fantasists are back for more.

    LOL..
  • Scott_xP said:
    Time to return to pre EEC/EU working practices. Another Brexit "benefit" ....
    Lorry driver regulations were only introduced a few years ago. My company at the time were hit by it and my colleagues on the road were irritated by it and not keen on the changes at the time.

    I don't particularly care either way but it's not exactly sending chimney sweeps up.
  • Have the DUP said anything about yesterday's border check agreement ?

    Normally we get the pavlovian 'Ulster says NO' response.

    Diminished Britishness apparently.
    Poor is the man whose Britishness depends on the indulgence of the Tory party.
    Credulous certainly.
  • LadyG said:

    Wonder if this will finally push the UK into doing what it should have done 9 months ago

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1336777195755360257?s=20

    Fuck them. Really, fuck them. I WANT No Deal now.

    They have totally overplayed their hand, they think we will submit, we will not submit, we are Britain, fuck em all. We are superior to them and we have never been Nazis and they are evil.
    It's a school night put the drink away . . .
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited December 2020
    https://twitter.com/timothypmurphy/status/1336775766995038215?s=19

    He's also under investigation for federal crimes. Crimes that Trump could pardon him for.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    MrEd said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Foxy said:

    Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09

    I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.
    If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.
    I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.
    On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.
    It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.

    OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.
    I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.
    True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.
    Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.
    Source? A lot of folk in the more northern climes and of more melanated skin yes, but less so down south and paler.
    I don't have a source, but it's what various doctors have told me over the years. It doesn't matter what colour skin people have if they spend most of the day indoors.
    I think that is probably bollocks. The Institute of Medicine and the National Academies of Science in the US did a study on Vitamin D about 10 years ago that basically said that as little as 5 minutes outside in daylight is enough for a normal person to create sufficient VitD regardless of skin colour. It resulted in a change in recommendations to healthcare professionals, IIRC.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481

    MrEd said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Foxy said:

    Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09

    I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.
    If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.
    I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.
    On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.
    It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.

    OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.
    I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.
    True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.
    Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.
    Likewise the other two, but we don't yet have that much of a plan for what to do about it, and trends in diet (away from meat and dairy, toward vegetarianism, or worse, veganism) exacerbate the issue.
    Vitamin d is quite tricky to supplement too. It’s not clear that giving vit d actually increases levels. Like so much in biology it’s really complex. Homeostasis plays a huge role in setting levels of just about everything in the body, and supplements are often just making expensive urine and excreta.
    Yes, and possibly a bigger issue with supplements is that synthetic vitamins usually have issues with absorbability and usability. Ascorbic acid (synthetic vitamin C) is not the same anti-oxidant mix you would get from a fruit, so it's unlikely to work the same.

    What we really need to do is to assess which vitamins and minerals are needed, and grow them into our produce and livestock before we eat it/them/their products. It's actually not massively difficult to do. But so far, it's far away from what policy makers are thinking about.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,459

    MrEd said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Foxy said:

    Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09

    I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.
    If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.
    I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.
    On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.
    It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.

    OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.
    I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.
    True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.
    Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.
    Source? A lot of folk in the more northern climes and of more melanated skin yes, but less so down south and paler.
    I don't have a source, but it's what various doctors have told me over the years. It doesn't matter what colour skin people have if they spend most of the day indoors.
    About a quarter to a third, https://www.guidelinesinpractice.co.uk/nutrition/top-tips-vitamin-d-deficiency/454118.article
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,459

    LadyG said:

    Wonder if this will finally push the UK into doing what it should have done 9 months ago

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1336777195755360257?s=20

    Fuck them. Really, fuck them. I WANT No Deal now.

    They have totally overplayed their hand, they think we will submit, we will not submit, we are Britain, fuck em all. We are superior to them and we have never been Nazis and they are evil.
    It's a school night put the drink away . . .
    Do lesbian newt painters go to school?
  • Foxy said:

    MrEd said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Foxy said:

    Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09

    I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.
    If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.
    I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.
    On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.
    It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.

    OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.
    I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.
    True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.
    Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.
    Source? A lot of folk in the more northern climes and of more melanated skin yes, but less so down south and paler.
    Sunshine doesn't seem to stop lots of people dying in Florida, Texas, Iran, India etc etc

    There is lots of Zinc in nuts and seeds. Vegetarians are not zinc deficient. Indeed there is reasonable evidence that being vegetarian is significantly life extending, and healthy years too.
    Hope so. I haven't eaten meat since the cows went mad.
  • MaxPB said:

    I think lots of EU countries are making their own plans. I've read about Germany, Spain and Italy already, this add Poland. Hungary are also signed up to buy the no booze Russian one but they might bail out of that now.

    From what I can tell the countries are getting frustrated on the lack of detail over delivery schedules and expected capacity. I think they're looking over the channel wondering why it's all happening late for a vaccine developed by a German company and manufactured in Belgium.
    This is why the EU so overreacted to us approving the vaccine "early".

    They see us as a bad influence on European solidarity.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Personally I'm waiting for another rendition of "Covid is over in the United States"

    The classics are the best, this modern "Elections are Rigged" is boring and repetitive.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile, back in the USA...

    'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'

    So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?

    Good evening.

    I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued

    That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.

    Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.

    Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
    Here's the problem with the Texas lawsuit.

    It alleges that easy access to mail in voting is unconstitutional. And therefore seeks to throw out the electoral college votes of four states which Biden won, and which had this form of voting.

    But if you're going to throw out those results on the basis on easy mail in voting, you have to also get rid of Florida (super easy), Utah (compulsory), North Carolina (super easy) and a bunch of other states.

    Indeed, the group you're left with is New York, Illinois, Texas and a few other North Eastern States who voted Democrat.
    17 states have now joined in the case. Personally, and yes from a "Trumpster", I don't think they will win but such a block will make it harder for SCOTUS to say no.

    And maybe that is one of the points, or at least the silver lining if they don't do the impossible and win the case. They get to present their evidence to SCOTUS, there might be things in there that people question or where it creates doubt.
    I think they'll just give it a one line dismissal: their argument will be that States are free to choose their own methods for appointing electors, and that Texas has no standing to bring a case. (I.e. a Wisconsinite can say that the method of appointing electors breaches their rights, but an individual politician from Texas cannot.)
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited December 2020

    MrEd said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Foxy said:

    Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09

    I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.
    If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.
    I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.
    On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.
    It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.

    OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.
    I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.
    True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.
    Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.
    Source? A lot of folk in the more northern climes and of more melanated skin yes, but less so down south and paler.
    I don't have a source, but it's what various doctors have told me over the years. It doesn't matter what colour skin people have if they spend most of the day indoors.
    About a quarter to a third, https://www.guidelinesinpractice.co.uk/nutrition/top-tips-vitamin-d-deficiency/454118.article
    The source for that claim doesn't go anywhere...

    However as with anything when it comes to nutrition, some scientists think that our standard "normal" level is actually far too low.
  • AlwaysSingingAlwaysSinging Posts: 464
    edited December 2020

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile, back in the USA...

    'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'

    So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?

    Good evening.

    I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued

    That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.

    Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.

    Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
    Here's the problem with the Texas lawsuit.

    It alleges that easy access to mail in voting is unconstitutional. And therefore seeks to throw out the electoral college votes of four states which Biden won, and which had this form of voting.

    But if you're going to throw out those results on the basis on easy mail in voting, you have to also get rid of Florida (super easy), Utah (compulsory), North Carolina (super easy) and a bunch of other states.

    Indeed, the group you're left with is New York, Illinois, Texas and a few other North Eastern States who voted Democrat.
    That is not the distinction as I understand it.

    The distinction is that the mail in rules of Florida, Utah, North Carolina and others were made by the legislatures of those states. The rules of the states being sued were at least partially made by officials and not by legislatures. The constitution explicitly states that election rules must be made by legislatures and not by officials, or indeed courts.

    Texas et all are claiming the sued states violated the constitution in framing their election rules. And that therefore those elections are unconstitutional.

    This is such nonsense. Texas -- its officials, electors, or electorate -- have not been harmed by how other states conducted their election. Nor have the other states joining. "X violated the constitution" is not a harm to Texas. They cannot sue, as they cannot be awarded a remedy.

    It's all noise and bluster from sore losers. Embarrassing.

    --AS
  • TimT said:

    Meanwhile, back in the USA...

    'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'

    So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?

    Good evening.

    I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued

    That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.

    Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.

    Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
    It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,

    if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.

    Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".
    That's a good point, but in upholding the Texas claim, the Supreme Court would not be overturning the result of the election.

    They would merely be ruling the election in four states unconstitutional, and returning the power to choose electors in those four states to their legislatures.

    (I think!).
    Surely, under the law, it is now too late for even that, as safe harbor has passed.
    Agreed. It is now too late though that is not going to stop the Trumpsters trying anything just to keep this current.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Meanwhile, back in the USA...

    'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'

    So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?

    Good evening.

    I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued

    That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.

    Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.

    Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
    It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,

    if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.

    Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".
    If SCOTUS overturns it then America is over as a federation of states. How many pieces it will split into and how bad the violence will be in the process is anyone's guess.
    Once again (and I bore even myself).

    AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

    This forum is beyond ridicule at times.
  • I wonder if there's going to be a meaningful readout tonight or if it will be a holding message and nothing new until the EU Council meeting tomorrow etc ?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,459

    MrEd said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Foxy said:

    Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09

    I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.
    If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.
    I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.
    On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.
    It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.

    OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.
    I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.
    True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.
    Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.
    Source? A lot of folk in the more northern climes and of more melanated skin yes, but less so down south and paler.
    I don't have a source, but it's what various doctors have told me over the years. It doesn't matter what colour skin people have if they spend most of the day indoors.
    About a quarter to a third, https://www.guidelinesinpractice.co.uk/nutrition/top-tips-vitamin-d-deficiency/454118.article
    The source for that claim doesn't go anywhere...

    However as with anything when it comes to nutrition, some scientists think that our standard "normal" level is actually far too low.
    https://cks.nice.org.uk/topics/vitamin-d-deficiency-in-adults-treatment-prevention/
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481

    MrEd said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Foxy said:

    Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09

    I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.
    If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.
    I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.
    On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.
    It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.

    OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.
    I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.
    True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.
    Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.
    Source? A lot of folk in the more northern climes and of more melanated skin yes, but less so down south and paler.
    I don't have a source, but it's what various doctors have told me over the years. It doesn't matter what colour skin people have if they spend most of the day indoors.
    Having darker skin does affect vitamin D absorption. Of course exposure matters too. Asian women who adopt modest dress are often particularly hard hit.
  • I wonder if there's going to be a meaningful readout tonight or if it will be a holding message and nothing new until the EU Council meeting tomorrow etc ?

    I thought there was no Brexit discussion on the agenda for the meeting tomorrow?
  • LadyG said:

    Wonder if this will finally push the UK into doing what it should have done 9 months ago

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1336777195755360257?s=20

    Fuck them. Really, fuck them. I WANT No Deal now.

    They have totally overplayed their hand, they think we will submit, we will not submit, we are Britain, fuck em all. We are superior to them and we have never been Nazis and they are evil.
    You shouldn't have long to wait now. Just a day or two more of Johnson's clowning antics and then it'll be clear we have no deal.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    Scott_xP said:
    Time to return to pre EEC/EU working practices. Another Brexit "benefit" ....
    Lorry driver regulations were only introduced a few years ago. My company at the time were hit by it and my colleagues on the road were irritated by it and not keen on the changes at the time.

    I don't particularly care either way but it's not exactly sending chimney sweeps up.
    “ratchet” clause to ensure that as one side upgrades its standards, the other is not able to enjoy a competitive advantage.

    What is the point of brexit if you accept ratchet clause? On feet in commons claiming take back control would be hollow? Canada + ratchet clause would be worst of all worlds BINO.

    Boris is right, he can’t sign that clause, it’s not a brexit the nation voted for, not one he could convince voters back home delivers take back control. EU have to surrender or we give them the full Australian.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,691

    LadyG said:

    Wonder if this will finally push the UK into doing what it should have done 9 months ago

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1336777195755360257?s=20

    Fuck them. Really, fuck them. I WANT No Deal now.

    They have totally overplayed their hand, they think we will submit, we will not submit, we are Britain, fuck em all. We are superior to them and we have never been Nazis and they are evil.
    It's a school night put the drink away . . .
    I think he's already been putting too much drink away tbh.
  • TimT said:

    Meanwhile, back in the USA...

    'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'

    So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?

    Good evening.

    I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued

    That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.

    Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.

    Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
    It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,

    if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.

    Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".
    That's a good point, but in upholding the Texas claim, the Supreme Court would not be overturning the result of the election.

    They would merely be ruling the election in four states unconstitutional, and returning the power to choose electors in those four states to their legislatures.

    (I think!).
    Surely, under the law, it is now too late for even that, as safe harbor has passed.
    Agreed. It is now too late though that is not going to stop the Trumpsters trying anything just to keep this current.
    I thought safe harbour date was the day the court cases need to be filed by, not the day they need to be resolved by?

    SCOTUS isn't going to do anything with this case as it's preposterous but it was filed before the safe harbour date so it can still be heard (if it had merit) can't it?
  • God forbid if little Timmy didn't get his ridiculously over-priced Apple headphones....what a stupid example by the Telegraph.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1336797354264039427?s=20
  • MrEd said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Foxy said:

    Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09

    I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.
    If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.
    I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.
    On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.
    It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.

    OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.
    I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.
    True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.
    Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.
    Are you deficient Gallowgate? In Vitamin D I mean? :lol:
    Unlikely, I supplement it quite heavily.
    Likewise. We have been on a multivitamin & mineral supplement since Foxy advised it way back in Jan or Feb. Vit.s A,B, C, D3, E, K , Zinc, Magnesium and enough other oddball metal to make me concerned that it is high tensile steel filings....
  • I wonder if there's going to be a meaningful readout tonight or if it will be a holding message and nothing new until the EU Council meeting tomorrow etc ?

    I thought there was no Brexit discussion on the agenda for the meeting tomorrow?
    Yeah and LadyG is a lesbian who is not called Sean.
  • Plus ca change from the sound of it.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    gealbhan said:

    Carnyx said:

    gealbhan said:

    LadyG said:
    Nonsense. Boris has been at his Churchillian best all day, the UK are on for a bloody good result this evening.

    The bottom line is Rosy is not in the same league as Boris as tough negotiator. The EU may have some good arguments, but that means zilch when comes down to a negotiation, the better negotiator wins regardless of the hand dealt.

    The UK wanted it to come down to this. Boris v Rosy. UK wins. This is the guy who negotiated the brexit win with the voters, negotiated to be PM, then destroyed the Labour Party in its heartlands negotiating with the voters.

    Disagree? You actually think Rosy is a tougher, better negotiator than Boris is? Just based on your prejudice not fact.

    It’s like the Battle of Britain tonight. Blighty v Germany. If Global Britain were to last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was his finest hour.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXbDQBsFFIE

    (I do so like that film, I must admit.)
    That’s the spirit.
    I see you were wrong about Kay Burley and all her colleagues being sacked by 5pm today.

    Despite your insistence. I predicted a hostage to fortune.

    You said, “we’ll see”. And so we did.
    They have been suspended pending a full investigation by Sky and if Boulton's comments are anything to go by their careers with Sky are over

    I am surprised how you seem to want to defend them
    I don't particularly, I just wanted to remind this poster of the outcome of discussion last night.

    Despite his insistence, he was of course wrong.

    That said, I think sacking them is extreme.
  • Decision needs to be made by Sunday.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Feels like no deal to me. EU probably thinks some months of pain means UK will budge eventually. I can't see that happening.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Can kicked for a few more days. Faisal Islam had an interesting point that the PM might accept a bilateral ratchet clause as his concession and sell it as “the Europeans will need to follow OUR high standards!”.
  • Scott_xP said:
    So do we get his Neville Chamberlain moment on Sunday then?
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    I wonder if there's going to be a meaningful readout tonight or if it will be a holding message and nothing new until the EU Council meeting tomorrow etc ?

    The negotiating teams will get back on it tomorrow. The EU will ramp up no deal prep. In Luke warm message the UK will tell business they should be far down road to no deal planning now, as previously advised.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    TimT said:

    MrEd said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Foxy said:

    Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09

    I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.
    If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.
    I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.
    On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.
    It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.

    OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.
    I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.
    True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.
    Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.
    Source? A lot of folk in the more northern climes and of more melanated skin yes, but less so down south and paler.
    I don't have a source, but it's what various doctors have told me over the years. It doesn't matter what colour skin people have if they spend most of the day indoors.
    I think that is probably bollocks. The Institute of Medicine and the National Academies of Science in the US did a study on Vitamin D about 10 years ago that basically said that as little as 5 minutes outside in daylight is enough for a normal person to create sufficient VitD regardless of skin colour. It resulted in a change in recommendations to healthcare professionals, IIRC.
    OK, it seems that some experts disagree with the IOM recommendations.

    See Skin type I and Boston in the winter:

    https://www.jwatch.org/jd201006040000002/2010/06/04/how-much-sunlight-equivalent-vitamin-d
  • gealbhan said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Time to return to pre EEC/EU working practices. Another Brexit "benefit" ....
    Lorry driver regulations were only introduced a few years ago. My company at the time were hit by it and my colleagues on the road were irritated by it and not keen on the changes at the time.

    I don't particularly care either way but it's not exactly sending chimney sweeps up.
    “ratchet” clause to ensure that as one side upgrades its standards, the other is not able to enjoy a competitive advantage.

    What is the point of brexit if you accept ratchet clause? On feet in commons claiming take back control would be hollow? Canada + ratchet clause would be worst of all worlds BINO.

    Boris is right, he can’t sign that clause, it’s not a brexit the nation voted for, not one he could convince voters back home delivers take back control. EU have to surrender or we give them the full Australian.
    You gain a competitive advantage through improving your own productivity.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398

    God forbid if little Timmy didn't get his ridiculously over-priced Apple headphones....what a stupid example by the Telegraph.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1336797354264039427?s=20

    I did wonder when the Treasury would try to get VAT from gig economy apps. The technicality being used to avoid paying VAT didn't seem like something that would last (nor stand up to court cases although I'm not sure what the status of the Uber VAT case is).
  • gealbhan said:

    Carnyx said:

    gealbhan said:

    LadyG said:
    Nonsense. Boris has been at his Churchillian best all day, the UK are on for a bloody good result this evening.

    The bottom line is Rosy is not in the same league as Boris as tough negotiator. The EU may have some good arguments, but that means zilch when comes down to a negotiation, the better negotiator wins regardless of the hand dealt.

    The UK wanted it to come down to this. Boris v Rosy. UK wins. This is the guy who negotiated the brexit win with the voters, negotiated to be PM, then destroyed the Labour Party in its heartlands negotiating with the voters.

    Disagree? You actually think Rosy is a tougher, better negotiator than Boris is? Just based on your prejudice not fact.

    It’s like the Battle of Britain tonight. Blighty v Germany. If Global Britain were to last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was his finest hour.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXbDQBsFFIE

    (I do so like that film, I must admit.)
    That’s the spirit.
    I see you were wrong about Kay Burley and all her colleagues being sacked by 5pm today.

    Despite your insistence. I predicted a hostage to fortune.

    You said, “we’ll see”. And so we did.
    They have been suspended pending a full investigation by Sky and if Boulton's comments are anything to go by their careers with Sky are over

    I am surprised how you seem to want to defend them
    I don't particularly, I just wanted to remind this poster of the outcome of discussion last night.

    Despite his insistence, he was of course wrong.

    That said, I think sacking them is extreme.
    Just as a matter of interest did you want Cummings sacked
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481
    Foxy said:

    MrEd said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Foxy said:

    Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09

    I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.
    If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.
    I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.
    On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.
    It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.

    OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.
    I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.
    True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.
    Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.
    Source? A lot of folk in the more northern climes and of more melanated skin yes, but less so down south and paler.
    Sunshine doesn't seem to stop lots of people dying in Florida, Texas, Iran, India etc etc

    There is lots of Zinc in nuts and seeds. Vegetarians are not zinc deficient. Indeed there is reasonable evidence that being vegetarian is significantly life extending, and healthy years too.
    Minerals in nuts, seeds, pulses, vegetables and legumes are great, but harder for the body to absorb than those found in meats, eggs, and dairy.

    I don't know what information you're using for the bald statement that vegetarians aren't zinc deficient, or what research you allude to on vegetarianism, but I strongly suspect there are other factors. Vegetarianism is usually a middle class habit, so would correlate strongly with people living a bit longer - that doesn't equal causation.

    We have ample evidence from the past to look at, of cultures who have been vegetarian over generations, and none of them have a reputation for longevity.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    Grim

    An extraordinarily impressive poster if that's what it is
  • Feels like no deal to me. EU probably thinks some months of pain means UK will budge eventually. I can't see that happening.

    Nor me.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    Meanwhile, back in the USA...

    'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'

    So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?

    Good evening.

    I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued

    That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.

    Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.

    Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
    It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,

    if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.

    Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".
    That's a good point, but in upholding the Texas claim, the Supreme Court would not be overturning the result of the election.

    They would merely be ruling the election in four states unconstitutional, and returning the power to choose electors in those four states to their legislatures.

    (I think!).
    Surely, under the law, it is now too late for even that, as safe harbor has passed.
    Agreed. It is now too late though that is not going to stop the Trumpsters trying anything just to keep this current.
    I thought safe harbour date was the day the court cases need to be filed by, not the day they need to be resolved by?

    SCOTUS isn't going to do anything with this case as it's preposterous but it was filed before the safe harbour date so it can still be heard (if it had merit) can't it?

    No, a law dating back to the year after Rutherford Hayes won the Presidency without a popular vote victory because state houses in the South overturned the electorates' decisions created the Safe Harbor date as being the date after which - if the results have been duly certified by state officials - the other remedies cease to be permitted and the EC delegates must be allocated according to the vote. Or that is my understanding based on various radio show explanations.
  • Feels like no deal to me. EU probably thinks some months of pain means UK will budge eventually. I can't see that happening.

    Correct.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028

    Feels like no deal to me. EU probably thinks some months of pain means UK will budge eventually. I can't see that happening.

    Nor me.
    Both sides still fundamentally misunderstand each other. Sad to see - not sure how this position is of benefit to anyone.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    Meanwhile, back in the USA...

    'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'

    So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?

    Good evening.

    I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued

    That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.

    Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.

    Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
    They won’t be ignored. They will summarily be dismissed.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315
    So No Deal it is.

    Ho hum.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    What is he eating? Profiteroles?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Roger said:
    Maybe he is offer to one of those gentlemen-only parties the chap from Fidesz attended
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    God forbid if little Timmy didn't get his ridiculously over-priced Apple headphones....what a stupid example by the Telegraph.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1336797354264039427?s=20

    The Telegraph being silly as usual. The reason they’re doing this is to unclog Folkestone so that, whatever happens with the negotiations, the increase in paperwork at the port isn’t compounded by a bunch of backlogged shipping containers. I’m not a fan of removing this sort of safety measure but frankly, given the government have elected not to do its homework and establish a working customs system, they need to do something to clear capacity before Jan.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Decision needs to be made by Sunday.

    Until Sunday, then it will be next Sunday.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I've been pretty critical of Biden but it looks like he is about to make a real good call and select Doug Jones for Attorney General.
  • Feels like no deal to me. EU probably thinks some months of pain means UK will budge eventually. I can't see that happening.

    Nor me.
    Both sides still fundamentally misunderstand each other. Sad to see - not sure how this position is of benefit to anyone.
    It is not but I cannot see Boris capitulating
  • What is he eating? Profiteroles?
    More importantly were they made in the micra-worthy....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    MrEd said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Foxy said:

    Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09

    I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.
    If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.
    I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.
    On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.
    It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.

    OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.
    I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.
    True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.
    Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.
    Are you deficient Gallowgate? In Vitamin D I mean? :lol:
    Unlikely, I supplement it quite heavily.
    As an adopted Geordie you'll be allowed to put on a t-shirt and long trousers outside in a couple of weeks.
  • MrEd said:

    Roger said:
    Maybe he is offer to one of those gentlemen-only parties the chap from Fidesz attended
    Well he would probably meet many high ranking EU officials there...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,998
    edited December 2020

    Feels like no deal to me. EU probably thinks some months of pain means UK will budge eventually. I can't see that happening.

    Nor me.
    Both sides still fundamentally misunderstand each other. Sad to see - not sure how this position is of benefit to anyone.
    The bottom line is still that only one 'side' (by whatever botched, unexamined, chaos infused process) has chosen to be in this position.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Or perhaps the briefing are all mis direction - i.e. some areas of movement were discussed at dinner, pretend it went badly, hold some more talks and hey presto..deal Sunday.

    God knows anymore
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/timothypmurphy/status/1336775766995038215?s=19

    He's also under investigation for federal crimes. Crimes that Trump could pardon him for.

    Which is likely the entire motivation for his display of slavish devotion.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,603

    Anyone still thinking this was a plot by China?...

    Study suggests Covid-19 circulating in Italy in late November 2019

    “Long-term, unrecognised spread of SARS-CoV-2 in northern Italy would help explain, at least in part, the devastating impact and rapid course of the first wave of COVID-19 in Lombardy.”

    We had a friend from Northern Italy come to visit us on 1st December last year. She was really not well and shouldn't have travelled, but did.

    On December 11th, I went down with the nastiest bug I have had in decades. Confined to bed for a couple of days with every bone aching, a hacking cough lasting for weeks... I had jokingly said "must have been Covid..." Which it couldn't have been, of course.

    Now it is a somewhat more stroky beard "Hmmmm......" of uncertainty.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile, back in the USA...

    'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'

    So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?

    Good evening.

    I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued

    That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.

    Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.

    Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
    Here's the problem with the Texas lawsuit.

    It alleges that easy access to mail in voting is unconstitutional. And therefore seeks to throw out the electoral college votes of four states which Biden won, and which had this form of voting.

    But if you're going to throw out those results on the basis on easy mail in voting, you have to also get rid of Florida (super easy), Utah (compulsory), North Carolina (super easy) and a bunch of other states.

    Indeed, the group you're left with is New York, Illinois, Texas and a few other North Eastern States who voted Democrat.
    17 states have now joined in the case. Personally, and yes from a "Trumpster", I don't think they will win but such a block will make it harder for SCOTUS to say no.

    And maybe that is one of the points, or at least the silver lining if they don't do the impossible and win the case. They get to present their evidence to SCOTUS, there might be things in there that people question or where it creates doubt.
    I think they'll just give it a one line dismissal: their argument will be that States are free to choose their own methods for appointing electors, and that Texas has no standing to bring a case. (I.e. a Wisconsinite can say that the method of appointing electors breaches their rights, but an individual politician from Texas cannot.)
    Yes, that seems to be the view from what I've heard is that it will probably be dismissed because the argument is (and this is from a Republican) "crazy". However, there was a caveat that it wasn't 100% guaranteed.
  • TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Meanwhile, back in the USA...

    'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'

    So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?

    Good evening.

    I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued

    That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.

    Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.

    Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
    It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,

    if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.

    Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".
    That's a good point, but in upholding the Texas claim, the Supreme Court would not be overturning the result of the election.

    They would merely be ruling the election in four states unconstitutional, and returning the power to choose electors in those four states to their legislatures.

    (I think!).
    Surely, under the law, it is now too late for even that, as safe harbor has passed.
    Agreed. It is now too late though that is not going to stop the Trumpsters trying anything just to keep this current.
    I thought safe harbour date was the day the court cases need to be filed by, not the day they need to be resolved by?

    SCOTUS isn't going to do anything with this case as it's preposterous but it was filed before the safe harbour date so it can still be heard (if it had merit) can't it?

    No, a law dating back to the year after Rutherford Hayes won the Presidency without a popular vote victory because state houses in the South overturned the electorates' decisions created the Safe Harbor date as being the date after which - if the results have been duly certified by state officials - the other remedies cease to be permitted and the EC delegates must be allocated according to the vote. Or that is my understanding based on various radio show explanations.
    I get that but I've heard it stated from a few people that the law is interpreted as demanding filing by that date - not resolution by that date. So a court case filed before safe harbour but heard after it is treated as a remedy from before that date.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Sounds like failure tonight. Hopefully not total failure.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Or perhaps the briefing are all mis direction - i.e. some areas of movement were discussed at dinner, pretend it went badly, hold some more talks and hey presto..deal Sunday.

    God knows anymore

    I’m inclined to believe some flex was shown at least otherwise they’d have just called no deal.
  • OnboardG1 said:

    Can kicked for a few more days. Faisal Islam had an interesting point that the PM might accept a bilateral ratchet clause as his concession and sell it as “the Europeans will need to follow OUR high standards!”.

    This is the weird thing.

    UK standards are higher than with most countries we trade with.

    A few years of ratcheting standards, one way or another, will just result in a few tariffs, one way or another.

    But it would get the next few dangerous months out of the way and give the UK a chance to make some proper plans and continue to sort out trade deals with the rest of the world.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile, back in the USA...

    'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'

    So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?

    Good evening.

    I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued

    That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.

    Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.

    Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
    Here's the problem with the Texas lawsuit.

    It alleges that easy access to mail in voting is unconstitutional. And therefore seeks to throw out the electoral college votes of four states which Biden won, and which had this form of voting.

    But if you're going to throw out those results on the basis on easy mail in voting, you have to also get rid of Florida (super easy), Utah (compulsory), North Carolina (super easy) and a bunch of other states.

    Indeed, the group you're left with is New York, Illinois, Texas and a few other North Eastern States who voted Democrat.
    17 states have now joined in the case. Personally, and yes from a "Trumpster", I don't think they will win but such a block will make it harder for SCOTUS to say no.

    And maybe that is one of the points, or at least the silver lining if they don't do the impossible and win the case. They get to present their evidence to SCOTUS, there might be things in there that people question or where it creates doubt.
    Third stage of grief.

    Our thoughts and prayers etc.
    Thank you @Anabobazina you are truly a kind soul
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    What is he eating? Profiteroles?
    More importantly were they made in the micra-worthy....
    Though the Nissan plant is probably going to close...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    Carnyx said:

    gealbhan said:

    LadyG said:
    Nonsense. Boris has been at his Churchillian best all day, the UK are on for a bloody good result this evening.

    The bottom line is Rosy is not in the same league as Boris as tough negotiator. The EU may have some good arguments, but that means zilch when comes down to a negotiation, the better negotiator wins regardless of the hand dealt.

    The UK wanted it to come down to this. Boris v Rosy. UK wins. This is the guy who negotiated the brexit win with the voters, negotiated to be PM, then destroyed the Labour Party in its heartlands negotiating with the voters.

    Disagree? You actually think Rosy is a tougher, better negotiator than Boris is? Just based on your prejudice not fact.

    It’s like the Battle of Britain tonight. Blighty v Germany. If Global Britain were to last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was his finest hour.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXbDQBsFFIE

    (I do so like that film, I must admit.)
    That’s the spirit.
    I see you were wrong about Kay Burley and all her colleagues being sacked by 5pm today.

    Despite your insistence. I predicted a hostage to fortune.

    You said, “we’ll see”. And so we did.
    You sure. Suspended via enquiry that sacks her is win for me surely?
    Er, no. She and her colleagues weren't sacked by 5pm. You predicted they would be.

    You were wrong.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Meanwhile, back in the USA...

    'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'

    So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?

    Good evening.

    I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued

    That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.

    Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.

    Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
    It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,

    if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.

    Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".
    If SCOTUS overturns it then America is over as a federation of states. How many pieces it will split into and how bad the violence will be in the process is anyone's guess.
    Once again (and I bore even myself).

    AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

    This forum is beyond ridicule at times.
    Rottenborough was replying to a hypothetical scenario that I held up as a question to Contrarian. I don't think either Rottenborough nor myself were suggesting SCOTUS was likely to overturn the election.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    OnboardG1 said:

    Or perhaps the briefing are all mis direction - i.e. some areas of movement were discussed at dinner, pretend it went badly, hold some more talks and hey presto..deal Sunday.

    God knows anymore

    I’m inclined to believe some flex was shown at least otherwise they’d have just called no deal.
    Yes..surely if no change no point talking for 4 more days?!
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Alistair said:

    I've been pretty critical of Biden but it looks like he is about to make a real good call and select Doug Jones for Attorney General.

    That is interesting. And, yes, a good pick.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    Scott_xP said:
    So do we get his Neville Chamberlain moment on Sunday then?
    He'll have to fly from Munich to do a Chaimberlain.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    gealbhan said:

    Carnyx said:

    gealbhan said:

    LadyG said:
    Nonsense. Boris has been at his Churchillian best all day, the UK are on for a bloody good result this evening.

    The bottom line is Rosy is not in the same league as Boris as tough negotiator. The EU may have some good arguments, but that means zilch when comes down to a negotiation, the better negotiator wins regardless of the hand dealt.

    The UK wanted it to come down to this. Boris v Rosy. UK wins. This is the guy who negotiated the brexit win with the voters, negotiated to be PM, then destroyed the Labour Party in its heartlands negotiating with the voters.

    Disagree? You actually think Rosy is a tougher, better negotiator than Boris is? Just based on your prejudice not fact.

    It’s like the Battle of Britain tonight. Blighty v Germany. If Global Britain were to last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was his finest hour.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXbDQBsFFIE

    (I do so like that film, I must admit.)
    That’s the spirit.
    I see you were wrong about Kay Burley and all her colleagues being sacked by 5pm today.

    Despite your insistence. I predicted a hostage to fortune.

    You said, “we’ll see”. And so we did.
    They have been suspended pending a full investigation by Sky and if Boulton's comments are anything to go by their careers with Sky are over

    I am surprised how you seem to want to defend them
    I don't particularly, I just wanted to remind this poster of the outcome of discussion last night.

    Despite his insistence, he was of course wrong.

    That said, I think sacking them is extreme.
    Spin it all you like. 😂. Suspended, and if they don’t come back, I was remarkably spot on with how SKY would protect the integrity of its newsroom.

    So who will replace the two ladies, a raid on rival channel to offer promotion, or promote from within. Rottweiler in residence is a niche position for vacancy.

    Emma Barnett

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/30/corbyn-unable-to-give-cost-of-childare-pledge-in-interview
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713

    MrEd said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Foxy said:

    Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09

    I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.
    If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.
    I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.
    On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.
    It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.

    OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.
    I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.
    True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.
    Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.
    Are you deficient Gallowgate? In Vitamin D I mean? :lol:
    Unlikely, I supplement it quite heavily.
    Likewise. We have been on a multivitamin & mineral supplement since Foxy advised it way back in Jan or Feb. Vit.s A,B, C, D3, E, K , Zinc, Magnesium and enough other oddball metal to make me concerned that it is high tensile steel filings....
    Yes, I don't know if it is my micronutrient cocktail that kept the bug out while isolating with Mrs Foxy. I am not inclined to change a winning formula.
  • Nigelb said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile, back in the USA...

    'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'

    So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?

    Good evening.

    I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued

    That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.

    Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.

    Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
    Here's the problem with the Texas lawsuit.

    It alleges that easy access to mail in voting is unconstitutional. And therefore seeks to throw out the electoral college votes of four states which Biden won, and which had this form of voting.

    But if you're going to throw out those results on the basis on easy mail in voting, you have to also get rid of Florida (super easy), Utah (compulsory), North Carolina (super easy) and a bunch of other states.

    Indeed, the group you're left with is New York, Illinois, Texas and a few other North Eastern States who voted Democrat.
    17 states have now joined in the case. Personally, and yes from a "Trumpster", I don't think they will win but such a block will make it harder for SCOTUS to say no.

    And maybe that is one of the points, or at least the silver lining if they don't do the impossible and win the case. They get to present their evidence to SCOTUS, there might be things in there that people question or where it creates doubt.
    There is nothing ‘in there’.
    This is simply states which vortex Republican trying to overturn the votes in states which voted Democratic. With zero grounds for action.
    We don't like the result is not justiciable.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile, back in the USA...

    'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'

    So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?

    Good evening.

    I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued

    That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.

    Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.

    Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
    Here's the problem with the Texas lawsuit.

    It alleges that easy access to mail in voting is unconstitutional. And therefore seeks to throw out the electoral college votes of four states which Biden won, and which had this form of voting.

    But if you're going to throw out those results on the basis on easy mail in voting, you have to also get rid of Florida (super easy), Utah (compulsory), North Carolina (super easy) and a bunch of other states.

    Indeed, the group you're left with is New York, Illinois, Texas and a few other North Eastern States who voted Democrat.
    17 states have now joined in the case. Personally, and yes from a "Trumpster", I don't think they will win but such a block will make it harder for SCOTUS to say no.

    And maybe that is one of the points, or at least the silver lining if they don't do the impossible and win the case. They get to present their evidence to SCOTUS, there might be things in there that people question or where it creates doubt.
    I think they'll just give it a one line dismissal: their argument will be that States are free to choose their own methods for appointing electors, and that Texas has no standing to bring a case. (I.e. a Wisconsinite can say that the method of appointing electors breaches their rights, but an individual politician from Texas cannot.)
    Yes, that seems to be the view from what I've heard is that it will probably be dismissed because the argument is (and this is from a Republican) "crazy". However, there was a caveat that it wasn't 100% guaranteed.
    LOL.
  • Re the general abuse aimed at Liam Fox / unflattering comparisons to Liz Truss on PB in recent days.

    It was the lack of concern the ERG types showed to Fox's failures which made me thing they were full of crap.

    They really should have been demanding a more active trade secretary if they wanted a hard break from the EU.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,459

    Anyone still thinking this was a plot by China?...

    Study suggests Covid-19 circulating in Italy in late November 2019

    “Long-term, unrecognised spread of SARS-CoV-2 in northern Italy would help explain, at least in part, the devastating impact and rapid course of the first wave of COVID-19 in Lombardy.”

    We had a friend from Northern Italy come to visit us on 1st December last year. She was really not well and shouldn't have travelled, but did.

    On December 11th, I went down with the nastiest bug I have had in decades. Confined to bed for a couple of days with every bone aching, a hacking cough lasting for weeks... I had jokingly said "must have been Covid..." Which it couldn't have been, of course.

    Now it is a somewhat more stroky beard "Hmmmm......" of uncertainty.
    Well never know for sure. It’s easy to forget that there are other nasty bugs out there. I had a stinky cough over Christmas, then a brief cold in feb. The wife dodged the former, had the later quite hard. We wondered about Covid, but testing through work (phe as part of trials) showed no antibodies. Sometimes someone was really ill in December 2019 because of a horrible virus... that was not Covid.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    OnboardG1 said:

    Can kicked for a few more days. Faisal Islam had an interesting point that the PM might accept a bilateral ratchet clause as his concession and sell it as “the Europeans will need to follow OUR high standards!”.

    This is the weird thing.

    UK standards are higher than with most countries we trade with.

    A few years of ratcheting standards, one way or another, will just result in a few tariffs, one way or another.

    But it would get the next few dangerous months out of the way and give the UK a chance to make some proper plans and continue to sort out trade deals with the rest of the world.
    Yes, I’m starting to think that’s the landing zone. The problem is that, although I legitimately think Johnson ISN’T that type of Tory, there are enough ERG loons who would like us to deregulate to US levels who would cry foul. But... again Johnson selling an agreement as “Where Blighty goes Europe follows” would probably be as good a headline as you’re going to get.
  • It's important to remember that Ursula von der Leyen has no authority to make material changes to the EU's agreed position. So there was zero possibility of this cosy dinner producing any concessions from EU side. The most it could have produced is an undertaking from her to consult with the EU premiers to see whether any UK proposal for a possible way out of the impasse might be acceptable. It's very hard to know if the UK did make any such proposal; if Boris simply repeated the Brexiteer nonsense about sovereignty without proposing anything new, then we're heading for no-deal crash-out. In that scenario, bad for the EU and disastrous for the UK, the EU will simply wait for the UK to come to its senses.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    eristdoof said:

    Scott_xP said:
    So do we get his Neville Chamberlain moment on Sunday then?
    He'll have to fly from Munich to do a Chaimberlain.
    Is Heston Aerodrome still operational?
  • Anyone still thinking this was a plot by China?...

    Study suggests Covid-19 circulating in Italy in late November 2019

    “Long-term, unrecognised spread of SARS-CoV-2 in northern Italy would help explain, at least in part, the devastating impact and rapid course of the first wave of COVID-19 in Lombardy.”

    We had a friend from Northern Italy come to visit us on 1st December last year. She was really not well and shouldn't have travelled, but did.

    On December 11th, I went down with the nastiest bug I have had in decades. Confined to bed for a couple of days with every bone aching, a hacking cough lasting for weeks... I had jokingly said "must have been Covid..." Which it couldn't have been, of course.

    Now it is a somewhat more stroky beard "Hmmmm......" of uncertainty.
    Well never know for sure. It’s easy to forget that there are other nasty bugs out there. I had a stinky cough over Christmas, then a brief cold in feb. The wife dodged the former, had the later quite hard. We wondered about Covid, but testing through work (phe as part of trials) showed no antibodies. Sometimes someone was really ill in December 2019 because of a horrible virus... that was not Covid.
    I had something last November that put me in hospital with pneumonia, but as it was cleared up with a lot of antibiotics it certainly wasn't C-19.
  • Re the general abuse aimed at Liam Fox / unflattering comparisons to Liz Truss on PB in recent days.

    It was the lack of concern the ERG types showed to Fox's failures which made me thing they were full of crap.

    They really should have been demanding a more active trade secretary if they wanted a hard break from the EU.

    Indeed that is a good point.

    The good work of Truss and Gove mean that it is a much simpler jump now to no deal if that is how it ends.

    No regrets that Fox is gone. Useless.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile, back in the USA...

    'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'

    So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?

    Good evening.

    I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued

    That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.

    Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.

    Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
    Here's the problem with the Texas lawsuit.

    It alleges that easy access to mail in voting is unconstitutional. And therefore seeks to throw out the electoral college votes of four states which Biden won, and which had this form of voting.

    But if you're going to throw out those results on the basis on easy mail in voting, you have to also get rid of Florida (super easy), Utah (compulsory), North Carolina (super easy) and a bunch of other states.

    Indeed, the group you're left with is New York, Illinois, Texas and a few other North Eastern States who voted Democrat.
    17 states have now joined in the case. Personally, and yes from a "Trumpster", I don't think they will win but such a block will make it harder for SCOTUS to say no.

    And maybe that is one of the points, or at least the silver lining if they don't do the impossible and win the case. They get to present their evidence to SCOTUS, there might be things in there that people question or where it creates doubt.
    I think they'll just give it a one line dismissal: their argument will be that States are free to choose their own methods for appointing electors, and that Texas has no standing to bring a case. (I.e. a Wisconsinite can say that the method of appointing electors breaches their rights, but an individual politician from Texas cannot.)
    Yes, that seems to be the view from what I've heard is that it will probably be dismissed because the argument is (and this is from a Republican) "crazy". However, there was a caveat that it wasn't 100% guaranteed.
    I think they won't even touch the merit of the complaint, they'll simply say that the plaintiffs don't have standing.

    (The Roberts Court has used this to duck many, many cases. And this is important because while the Chief Justice is just one vote when it comes to cases, he has a lot of latitude in deciding which cases actually get heard.)
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    Feels like no deal to me. EU probably thinks some months of pain means UK will budge eventually. I can't see that happening.

    Nor me.
    We have some months pain readjusting built in. But what happens after x amount of months? No one knows. But I suspect 4, 5, 6 months in without readjustment period settling down and public opinion in UK will crack.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,459
    Jonathan said:

    Sounds like failure tonight. Hopefully not total failure.

    I think it would be naive to expect it all to resolve over dinner. I don’t know where we will end up, but they are still talking, and I would note that the talks go on after the eu summit- perhaps some hard talking amongst the eu needs to be done too. French fishing fleets don’t do well in no free trade deal scenarios.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    gealbhan said:

    Carnyx said:

    gealbhan said:

    LadyG said:
    Nonsense. Boris has been at his Churchillian best all day, the UK are on for a bloody good result this evening.

    The bottom line is Rosy is not in the same league as Boris as tough negotiator. The EU may have some good arguments, but that means zilch when comes down to a negotiation, the better negotiator wins regardless of the hand dealt.

    The UK wanted it to come down to this. Boris v Rosy. UK wins. This is the guy who negotiated the brexit win with the voters, negotiated to be PM, then destroyed the Labour Party in its heartlands negotiating with the voters.

    Disagree? You actually think Rosy is a tougher, better negotiator than Boris is? Just based on your prejudice not fact.

    It’s like the Battle of Britain tonight. Blighty v Germany. If Global Britain were to last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was his finest hour.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXbDQBsFFIE

    (I do so like that film, I must admit.)
    That’s the spirit.
    I see you were wrong about Kay Burley and all her colleagues being sacked by 5pm today.

    Despite your insistence. I predicted a hostage to fortune.

    You said, “we’ll see”. And so we did.
    They have been suspended pending a full investigation by Sky and if Boulton's comments are anything to go by their careers with Sky are over

    I am surprised how you seem to want to defend them
    I don't particularly, I just wanted to remind this poster of the outcome of discussion last night.

    Despite his insistence, he was of course wrong.

    That said, I think sacking them is extreme.
    Just as a matter of interest did you want Cummings sacked
    Yes, of course, but because he is a toxic culture warrior –– not because of his trip to Barnard Castle, which I thought was trivial guff, as I said repeatedly on here at the time.

    I'd like to see the moralising authoritarians on PB retained too, although a short period of reflective silence from them would be welcome.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Meanwhile, back in the USA...

    'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'

    So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?

    Good evening.

    I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued

    That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.

    Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.

    Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
    Here's the problem with the Texas lawsuit.

    It alleges that easy access to mail in voting is unconstitutional. And therefore seeks to throw out the electoral college votes of four states which Biden won, and which had this form of voting.

    But if you're going to throw out those results on the basis on easy mail in voting, you have to also get rid of Florida (super easy), Utah (compulsory), North Carolina (super easy) and a bunch of other states.

    Indeed, the group you're left with is New York, Illinois, Texas and a few other North Eastern States who voted Democrat.
    17 states have now joined in the case. Personally, and yes from a "Trumpster", I don't think they will win but such a block will make it harder for SCOTUS to say no.

    And maybe that is one of the points, or at least the silver lining if they don't do the impossible and win the case. They get to present their evidence to SCOTUS, there might be things in there that people question or where it creates doubt.
    I think they'll just give it a one line dismissal: their argument will be that States are free to choose their own methods for appointing electors, and that Texas has no standing to bring a case. (I.e. a Wisconsinite can say that the method of appointing electors breaches their rights, but an individual politician from Texas cannot.)
    Yes, that seems to be the view from what I've heard is that it will probably be dismissed because the argument is (and this is from a Republican) "crazy". However, there was a caveat that it wasn't 100% guaranteed.
    LOL.
    LOL indeed.

    Almost as much as Kay Burley going...
  • It's a Photoshop. Not an especially good one (look at the straight line going through Johnson's elbow on the left).
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    edited December 2020
    Quickly spotted.

    Still looks nice what he is eating though.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,100
    edited December 2020

    Fair does, this is pure Sir Les.

    twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/1336795249801355264?s=20

    That's odd....they both changed before dinner....unless its fake news?

    twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1336789739605815309?s=20

    Boris in Japan:

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/boris-johnson-arrives-in-japan-to-bang-the-drum-for-london-on-threeday-tour-a3088451.html


    Is from October...Getty Images...reverse image search if your friend.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    spacex launch 50 seconds
This discussion has been closed.