Two warnings for Johnson in today’s YouGov poll – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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I don't follow this point at all. If the case is meritless in terms of evidence, argument or law, then what would it matter how many States filed it? Standing is an important issue in legal matters sometimes apparently, but surely legal arguments are more significant, and if it is a nonsense case, that would not change just because people add their name to it.contrarian said:
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...?Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
1 -
From the same people demanding we employ a circuit breaker approach to getting COVID under control?another_richard said:
We all remember the pasted tweets telling us we had to join the EU ventilator scheme, the EU PPE scheme, the EU vaccine scheme ...RobD said:
And to think, some wanted the UK to join on purely ideological grounds.FrancisUrquhart said:
Well the EU ventilator scheme didn't go so well....When Czechia required them, they got all of 30, and had to beg, borrow, steal from all their neighbours.MaxPB said:
I think lots of EU countries are making their own plans. I've read about Germany, Spain and Italy already, this add Poland. Hungary are also signed up to buy the no booze Russian one but they might bail out of that now.FrancisUrquhart said:
From what I can tell the countries are getting frustrated on the lack of detail over delivery schedules and expected capacity. I think they're looking over the channel wondering why it's all happening late for a vaccine developed by a German company and manufactured in Belgium.2 -
There is only so much any government can do - as always Jo Public must take responsibility for their behaviour. WRT Asia they did it better because generally they restricted individual liberties to a degree which would not be accepted elsewhere.LadyG said:
Except that the British media, eg Piers Morgan, were obsessed with the fact that we were doing exceptionally badly, and everyone involved should be burned at the stake.Foxy said:
The figures are pretty grim everywhere* and to an extent that becomes the new normal, and 500 deaths from covid is no longer a headline.FrancisUrquhart said:It is strange how second time around we aren't getting the nightly look how shit the UK is doing compared to rest of Europe from the media.
*except the Western Pacific nations.
Some of us at the time said, well, let's wait and see, this is going to last a year or two, at the end maybe we will all look roughly the same
As of now that second opinion looks valid. Britain took a tough first punch because we are a very open, global, trading, multicultural nation with a vast world city at its heart. Ideal conditions for spreading a bug like covid, before it is noticed.
Now the virus is hunting more obscure prey in eastern Europe, the Mid East, south Africa, etc
Don't get me wrong. HMG of the UK fucked up in multiple ways. But I'm increasingly unsure about any western countries which did NOT fuck up. Asia did it all better than any of us.0 -
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=091 -
Here's the problem with the Texas lawsuit.contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
It alleges that easy access to mail in voting is unconstitutional. And therefore seeks to throw out the electoral college votes of four states which Biden won, and which had this form of voting.
But if you're going to throw out those results on the basis on easy mail in voting, you have to also get rid of Florida (super easy), Utah (compulsory), North Carolina (super easy) and a bunch of other states.
Indeed, the group you're left with is New York, Illinois, Texas and a few other North Eastern States who voted Democrat.0 -
Spacex new launch time 2240 gmt0
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I wonder how many people who started lockdown #1 with the mantra to stop drinking, work out more etc are still sticking to it?another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=090 -
Spain is not expecting to begin until next year with no serious numbers vaccinated before March.MaxPB said:
I think lots of EU countries are making their own plans. I've read about Germany, Spain and Italy already, this add Poland. Hungary are also signed up to buy the no booze Russian one but they might bail out of that now.FrancisUrquhart said:
From what I can tell the countries are getting frustrated on the lack of detail over delivery schedules and expected capacity. I think they're looking over the channel wondering why it's all happening late for a vaccine developed by a German company and manufactured in Belgium.0 -
Wasn't someone on here suggesting that Grimesy was the intelligent young face of the right?
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1336772218295111689?s=20
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I think the US would be much happier as two countries.contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....0 -
It does help that the individual provinces in Australia are often two day drives from each other.FrancisUrquhart said:
The number of countries who "done good", with similar Western liberal values / economies, is now down to basically Australia and New Zealand.LadyG said:
Except that the British media, eg Piers Morgan, were obsessed with the fact that we were doing exceptionally badly, and everyone involved should be burned at the stake.Foxy said:
The figures are pretty grim everywhere* and to an extent that becomes the new normal, and 500 deaths from covid is no longer a headline.FrancisUrquhart said:It is strange how second time around we aren't getting the nightly look how shit the UK is doing compared to rest of Europe from the media.
*except the Western Pacific nations.
Some of us at the time said, well, let's wait and see, this is going to last a year or two, at the end maybe we will all look roughly the same
As of now that second opinion looks valid. Britain took a tough first punch because we are a very open, global, trading, multicultural nation with a vast world city at its heart. Ideal conditions for spreading a bug like covid, before it is noticed.
Now the virus is hunting more obscure prey in eastern Europe, the Mid East, south Africa, etc
Don't get me wrong. HMG of the UK fucked up in multiple ways. But I'm increasingly unsure about any western countries which did NOT fuck up. Asia did it all better than any of us.
I think Australia is the most interesting case, as unlike New Zealand, they have large direct connections to China and several very large dense cities. Amazing what shutting your border quickly, sensible hotel based quarantine system and restricting travel between states can do.3 -
I'm guilty of not doing that: my lockdown diet and exercise regime was aweful.another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=090 -
17 states have now joined in the case. Personally, and yes from a "Trumpster", I don't think they will win but such a block will make it harder for SCOTUS to say no.rcs1000 said:
Here's the problem with the Texas lawsuit.contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
It alleges that easy access to mail in voting is unconstitutional. And therefore seeks to throw out the electoral college votes of four states which Biden won, and which had this form of voting.
But if you're going to throw out those results on the basis on easy mail in voting, you have to also get rid of Florida (super easy), Utah (compulsory), North Carolina (super easy) and a bunch of other states.
Indeed, the group you're left with is New York, Illinois, Texas and a few other North Eastern States who voted Democrat.
And maybe that is one of the points, or at least the silver lining if they don't do the impossible and win the case. They get to present their evidence to SCOTUS, there might be things in there that people question or where it creates doubt.0 -
The openly racist one would be a lot less happy when the money runs out.rcs1000 said:
I think the US would be much happier as two countries.contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....0 -
That is true...although you never road tripped with me....I have done some epic ones in the US in single bursts...Chicago to New York, Atlanta to Miami....rcs1000 said:
It does help that the individual provinces in Australia are often two day drives from each other.FrancisUrquhart said:
The number of countries who "done good", with similar Western liberal values / economies, is now down to basically Australia and New Zealand.LadyG said:
Except that the British media, eg Piers Morgan, were obsessed with the fact that we were doing exceptionally badly, and everyone involved should be burned at the stake.Foxy said:
The figures are pretty grim everywhere* and to an extent that becomes the new normal, and 500 deaths from covid is no longer a headline.FrancisUrquhart said:It is strange how second time around we aren't getting the nightly look how shit the UK is doing compared to rest of Europe from the media.
*except the Western Pacific nations.
Some of us at the time said, well, let's wait and see, this is going to last a year or two, at the end maybe we will all look roughly the same
As of now that second opinion looks valid. Britain took a tough first punch because we are a very open, global, trading, multicultural nation with a vast world city at its heart. Ideal conditions for spreading a bug like covid, before it is noticed.
Now the virus is hunting more obscure prey in eastern Europe, the Mid East, south Africa, etc
Don't get me wrong. HMG of the UK fucked up in multiple ways. But I'm increasingly unsure about any western countries which did NOT fuck up. Asia did it all better than any of us.
I think Australia is the most interesting case, as unlike New Zealand, they have large direct connections to China and several very large dense cities. Amazing what shutting your border quickly, sensible hotel based quarantine system and restricting travel between states can do.0 -
I used to be mildly supportive of the monarchy, but as I have got older it seems to me that the monarchy is quite central to the class system and stratifying the layers in English society and perhaps has no other purpose any more since the monarch will always do whatever the PM of the day says to do.Luckyguy1983 said:
I don't think it's quite as simple as that. The British Monarchy is still quite central to our constitution. It isn't a toy monarchy like some German or Sicilian Prince where 'Prince' means nothing more than having an interesting title at parties on yachts in Monaco with lots of other ephemeral rich people. That would not be assured with an indy Scotland. I am sure the Monarchy would adapt elegantly to Scotland leaving, but personally I think the Queen would be devastated if it happened on her watch.Carnyx said:
Just the idea that it is somehow dependent on the Union of the Parliaments. The Commonwealth show otherwise. So from her point of view it is a zero sum game unless she lets secular politics interfere. Which she is not supposed to do.Luckyguy1983 said:
I agree with you, but why do you think that's the problem with it?Carnyx said:
The problem with that is that it is a Scottish monarchy first and foremost!Luckyguy1983 said:
I think the Queen did subtly do her best to influence both refs - Indy against and Brexit for, without explicitly endorsing her preferred outcome.Theuniondivvie said:
If she'd said similar before the EU referendum, the streets would have been strewn with prolapsing Faragistas.Philip_Thompson said:
Saying "think very carefully" during a referendum really ought to not be shocking.Theuniondivvie said:
Precisely, it's not necessarily such comments in themselves, it's the fawning amplification of them by our media, particularly our state broadcaster.Carnyx said:
Given the massive media attention any time a minor royal breaks wind, and the huge attention to HMTQ's comment re indyref at the time, I wouldn't be so sure.
There was something about itr in a recentlyt published political memoir, too, which rather emphasised the impoirtance Mr Cameron placed on getting Her Maj to come out with it, which ctrengthen's TSE's point considerably. But I fotget he details, not being a slavish royalist (was put off for life byt doing a scrapbook for Cub Scouts and readingf that book by Her Maj's nanny/governess).
In any case once we have a new sovereigh and PM the wish to retain a monarchy will change downwards.
'queen says scots should think very carefully' gives 13.5million hits on Google, with this at the top.
I'd be like "I've thought carefully about it and am voting Yes".
I think there's some justification for that action in the national importance of both these events. Nobody would think twice about the Royal family supporting the UK against an external aggressor, so it seems somewhat unrealistic to expect them to be blase about the prospect of internal political dissolution, or (and I accept this is a more niche perspective) of external political subsumption. I wouldn't expect the monarch to take a view on other political issues.
The Queen may well be devastated if Scotland goes independent on her "watch" but it is none of her business. Her job is to act as a figurehead whilst the PM gets on with the day to day running of the UK.2 -
It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09
OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.0 -
Yes, Australia is effectively several New Zealands sharing the same landmass, but constituting separate epidemiological zones.rcs1000 said:
It does help that the individual provinces in Australia are often two day drives from each other.FrancisUrquhart said:
The number of countries who "done good", with similar Western liberal values / economies, is now down to basically Australia and New Zealand.LadyG said:
Except that the British media, eg Piers Morgan, were obsessed with the fact that we were doing exceptionally badly, and everyone involved should be burned at the stake.Foxy said:
The figures are pretty grim everywhere* and to an extent that becomes the new normal, and 500 deaths from covid is no longer a headline.FrancisUrquhart said:It is strange how second time around we aren't getting the nightly look how shit the UK is doing compared to rest of Europe from the media.
*except the Western Pacific nations.
Some of us at the time said, well, let's wait and see, this is going to last a year or two, at the end maybe we will all look roughly the same
As of now that second opinion looks valid. Britain took a tough first punch because we are a very open, global, trading, multicultural nation with a vast world city at its heart. Ideal conditions for spreading a bug like covid, before it is noticed.
Now the virus is hunting more obscure prey in eastern Europe, the Mid East, south Africa, etc
Don't get me wrong. HMG of the UK fucked up in multiple ways. But I'm increasingly unsure about any western countries which did NOT fuck up. Asia did it all better than any of us.
I think Australia is the most interesting case, as unlike New Zealand, they have large direct connections to China and several very large dense cities. Amazing what shutting your border quickly, sensible hotel based quarantine system and restricting travel between states can do.1 -
Well. That point is arguable.Taiwan managed it without a lockdown. Which means they restricted liberties a heck of a lot less.felix said:
There is only so much any government can do - as always Jo Public must take responsibility for their behaviour. WRT Asia they did it better because generally they restricted individual liberties to a degree which would not be accepted elsewhere.LadyG said:
Except that the British media, eg Piers Morgan, were obsessed with the fact that we were doing exceptionally badly, and everyone involved should be burned at the stake.Foxy said:
The figures are pretty grim everywhere* and to an extent that becomes the new normal, and 500 deaths from covid is no longer a headline.FrancisUrquhart said:It is strange how second time around we aren't getting the nightly look how shit the UK is doing compared to rest of Europe from the media.
*except the Western Pacific nations.
Some of us at the time said, well, let's wait and see, this is going to last a year or two, at the end maybe we will all look roughly the same
As of now that second opinion looks valid. Britain took a tough first punch because we are a very open, global, trading, multicultural nation with a vast world city at its heart. Ideal conditions for spreading a bug like covid, before it is noticed.
Now the virus is hunting more obscure prey in eastern Europe, the Mid East, south Africa, etc
Don't get me wrong. HMG of the UK fucked up in multiple ways. But I'm increasingly unsure about any western countries which did NOT fuck up. Asia did it all better than any of us.
There is plenty of detail on Taiwan and New Zealand here.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanwpc/article/PIIS2666-6065(20)30044-4/fulltext
Essentially. Preparation. Mask wearing as a culture. Effective border controls. Enforced quarantine. Tracking. Experience of SARS.0 -
FrancisUrquhart said:
I wonder how many people who started lockdown #1 with the mantra to stop drinking, work out more etc are still sticking to it?another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09
I stopped working and started drinking more. So far I've managed to stick to it.FrancisUrquhart said:
I wonder how many people who started lockdown #1 with the mantra to stop drinking, work out more etc are still sticking to it?another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=096 -
SCOTUS can and has ignore states but there is an argument for say they shouldn't.kle4 said:
I don't follow this point at all. If the case is meritless in terms of evidence, argument or law, then what would it matter how many States filed it? Standing is an important issue in legal matters sometimes apparently, but surely legal arguments are more significant, and if it is a nonsense case, that would not change just because people add their name to it.contrarian said:
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...?Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?0 -
Reading --> Inverness --> Reading as a day trip. 1150 miles.FrancisUrquhart said:
That is true...although you never road tripped with me....I have done some epic ones in the US in single bursts...Chicago to New York, Atlanta to Miami....rcs1000 said:
It does help that the individual provinces in Australia are often two day drives from each other.FrancisUrquhart said:
The number of countries who "done good", with similar Western liberal values / economies, is now down to basically Australia and New Zealand.LadyG said:
Except that the British media, eg Piers Morgan, were obsessed with the fact that we were doing exceptionally badly, and everyone involved should be burned at the stake.Foxy said:
The figures are pretty grim everywhere* and to an extent that becomes the new normal, and 500 deaths from covid is no longer a headline.FrancisUrquhart said:It is strange how second time around we aren't getting the nightly look how shit the UK is doing compared to rest of Europe from the media.
*except the Western Pacific nations.
Some of us at the time said, well, let's wait and see, this is going to last a year or two, at the end maybe we will all look roughly the same
As of now that second opinion looks valid. Britain took a tough first punch because we are a very open, global, trading, multicultural nation with a vast world city at its heart. Ideal conditions for spreading a bug like covid, before it is noticed.
Now the virus is hunting more obscure prey in eastern Europe, the Mid East, south Africa, etc
Don't get me wrong. HMG of the UK fucked up in multiple ways. But I'm increasingly unsure about any western countries which did NOT fuck up. Asia did it all better than any of us.
I think Australia is the most interesting case, as unlike New Zealand, they have large direct connections to China and several very large dense cities. Amazing what shutting your border quickly, sensible hotel based quarantine system and restricting travel between states can do.
(Ivory Gull, if you were wondering.)0 -
Can anybody explain why it is that every time I respond to a post the original is duplicated? Anything I can do about it?
Very irritating.0 -
My God, @Peter_the_Punter are you sat on the couch with a 6 pack and a fag watching Coronation Street?Peter_the_Punter said:FrancisUrquhart said:
I wonder how many people who started lockdown #1 with the mantra to stop drinking, work out more etc are still sticking to it?another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09
I stopped working and started drinking more. So far I've managed to stick to it.FrancisUrquhart said:
I wonder how many people who started lockdown #1 with the mantra to stop drinking, work out more etc are still sticking to it?another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=091 -
So you are saying Trump is a winner, because he’s changed what would have been “and a clap for the loser” narrative into one where his base doesn’t see him as loser and he’s 300K richer than if he phoned in a concession on the night.MrEd said:
17 states have now joined in the case. Personally, and yes from a "Trumpster", I don't think they will win but such a block will make it harder for SCOTUS to say no.rcs1000 said:
Here's the problem with the Texas lawsuit.contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
It alleges that easy access to mail in voting is unconstitutional. And therefore seeks to throw out the electoral college votes of four states which Biden won, and which had this form of voting.
But if you're going to throw out those results on the basis on easy mail in voting, you have to also get rid of Florida (super easy), Utah (compulsory), North Carolina (super easy) and a bunch of other states.
Indeed, the group you're left with is New York, Illinois, Texas and a few other North Eastern States who voted Democrat.
And maybe that is one of the points, or at least the silver lining if they don't do the impossible and win the case. They get to present their evidence to SCOTUS, there might be things in there that people question or where it creates doubt.
The really rabid anti trumpers wont admit this, but you are right.0 -
But it is, quite literally *her business*, though I support the principle that the Monarch should remain aloof from politics. Also - remember this is just my opinion, I don't know her personal thoughts.Beibheirli_C said:
I used to be mildly supportive of the monarchy, but as I have got older it seems to me that the monarchy is quite central to the class system and stratifying the layers in English society and perhaps has no other purpose any more since the monarch will always do whatever the PM of the day says to do.Luckyguy1983 said:
I don't think it's quite as simple as that. The British Monarchy is still quite central to our constitution. It isn't a toy monarchy like some German or Sicilian Prince where 'Prince' means nothing more than having an interesting title at parties on yachts in Monaco with lots of other ephemeral rich people. That would not be assured with an indy Scotland. I am sure the Monarchy would adapt elegantly to Scotland leaving, but personally I think the Queen would be devastated if it happened on her watch.Carnyx said:
Just the idea that it is somehow dependent on the Union of the Parliaments. The Commonwealth show otherwise. So from her point of view it is a zero sum game unless she lets secular politics interfere. Which she is not supposed to do.Luckyguy1983 said:
I agree with you, but why do you think that's the problem with it?Carnyx said:
The problem with that is that it is a Scottish monarchy first and foremost!Luckyguy1983 said:
I think the Queen did subtly do her best to influence both refs - Indy against and Brexit for, without explicitly endorsing her preferred outcome.Theuniondivvie said:
If she'd said similar before the EU referendum, the streets would have been strewn with prolapsing Faragistas.Philip_Thompson said:
Saying "think very carefully" during a referendum really ought to not be shocking.Theuniondivvie said:
Precisely, it's not necessarily such comments in themselves, it's the fawning amplification of them by our media, particularly our state broadcaster.Carnyx said:
Given the massive media attention any time a minor royal breaks wind, and the huge attention to HMTQ's comment re indyref at the time, I wouldn't be so sure.
There was something about itr in a recentlyt published political memoir, too, which rather emphasised the impoirtance Mr Cameron placed on getting Her Maj to come out with it, which ctrengthen's TSE's point considerably. But I fotget he details, not being a slavish royalist (was put off for life byt doing a scrapbook for Cub Scouts and readingf that book by Her Maj's nanny/governess).
In any case once we have a new sovereigh and PM the wish to retain a monarchy will change downwards.
'queen says scots should think very carefully' gives 13.5million hits on Google, with this at the top.
I'd be like "I've thought carefully about it and am voting Yes".
I think there's some justification for that action in the national importance of both these events. Nobody would think twice about the Royal family supporting the UK against an external aggressor, so it seems somewhat unrealistic to expect them to be blase about the prospect of internal political dissolution, or (and I accept this is a more niche perspective) of external political subsumption. I wouldn't expect the monarch to take a view on other political issues.
The Queen may well be devastated if Scotland goes independent on her "watch" but it is none of her business. Her job is to act as a figurehead whilst the PM gets on with the day to day running of the UK.1 -
Once did SF to Philadelphia in an old Rambler, but it did take 12 days.MarqueeMark said:
Reading --> Inverness --> Reading as a day trip. 1150 miles.FrancisUrquhart said:
That is true...although you never road tripped with me....I have done some epic ones in the US in single bursts...Chicago to New York, Atlanta to Miami....rcs1000 said:
It does help that the individual provinces in Australia are often two day drives from each other.FrancisUrquhart said:
The number of countries who "done good", with similar Western liberal values / economies, is now down to basically Australia and New Zealand.LadyG said:
Except that the British media, eg Piers Morgan, were obsessed with the fact that we were doing exceptionally badly, and everyone involved should be burned at the stake.Foxy said:
The figures are pretty grim everywhere* and to an extent that becomes the new normal, and 500 deaths from covid is no longer a headline.FrancisUrquhart said:It is strange how second time around we aren't getting the nightly look how shit the UK is doing compared to rest of Europe from the media.
*except the Western Pacific nations.
Some of us at the time said, well, let's wait and see, this is going to last a year or two, at the end maybe we will all look roughly the same
As of now that second opinion looks valid. Britain took a tough first punch because we are a very open, global, trading, multicultural nation with a vast world city at its heart. Ideal conditions for spreading a bug like covid, before it is noticed.
Now the virus is hunting more obscure prey in eastern Europe, the Mid East, south Africa, etc
Don't get me wrong. HMG of the UK fucked up in multiple ways. But I'm increasingly unsure about any western countries which did NOT fuck up. Asia did it all better than any of us.
I think Australia is the most interesting case, as unlike New Zealand, they have large direct connections to China and several very large dense cities. Amazing what shutting your border quickly, sensible hotel based quarantine system and restricting travel between states can do.
(Ivory Gull, if you were wondering.)0 -
And did you see it?MarqueeMark said:
Reading --> Inverness --> Reading as a day trip. 1150 miles.FrancisUrquhart said:
That is true...although you never road tripped with me....I have done some epic ones in the US in single bursts...Chicago to New York, Atlanta to Miami....rcs1000 said:
It does help that the individual provinces in Australia are often two day drives from each other.FrancisUrquhart said:
The number of countries who "done good", with similar Western liberal values / economies, is now down to basically Australia and New Zealand.LadyG said:
Except that the British media, eg Piers Morgan, were obsessed with the fact that we were doing exceptionally badly, and everyone involved should be burned at the stake.Foxy said:
The figures are pretty grim everywhere* and to an extent that becomes the new normal, and 500 deaths from covid is no longer a headline.FrancisUrquhart said:It is strange how second time around we aren't getting the nightly look how shit the UK is doing compared to rest of Europe from the media.
*except the Western Pacific nations.
Some of us at the time said, well, let's wait and see, this is going to last a year or two, at the end maybe we will all look roughly the same
As of now that second opinion looks valid. Britain took a tough first punch because we are a very open, global, trading, multicultural nation with a vast world city at its heart. Ideal conditions for spreading a bug like covid, before it is noticed.
Now the virus is hunting more obscure prey in eastern Europe, the Mid East, south Africa, etc
Don't get me wrong. HMG of the UK fucked up in multiple ways. But I'm increasingly unsure about any western countries which did NOT fuck up. Asia did it all better than any of us.
I think Australia is the most interesting case, as unlike New Zealand, they have large direct connections to China and several very large dense cities. Amazing what shutting your border quickly, sensible hotel based quarantine system and restricting travel between states can do.
(Ivory Gull, if you were wondering.)
I did Brighton To Inverness once, but the return leg was more gentile via the lakes.0 -
It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.
Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".0 -
Pneumonia is traditionally known as Old Man's Friend I believe. But I don't see why covid wouldn't be the same: lots of frail people with complex multiple age-related issues succumb with covid, not because of it directly. I think it's odd.tlg86 said:
I guess it comes down to whether they think the person was going to snuff it soon and COVID/Flu/Pneumonia finished them off.rottenborough said:There is an oddity in the ONS death figures (latest given in link below - see fig 2) that I can't fathom. Maybe the PB brains trust can help?
3,000 a week are dying with flu/pneumonia as a contributing factor, but hardly anyone is dying due directly to these two. Whereas with covid deaths it is the reverse. 3,000 a week covid deaths. Most of the covid deaths are due to the disease and not with it as a contributor.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending27november20200 -
Both examples for different reasons are much more able to 'cutoff' the RotW. NZ is a very small country in terms of people. Neither can really be compared to typical western countries. Mask wearing is now pretty universal in Spain but on its own is not enough.dixiedean said:
Well. That point is arguable.Taiwan managed it without a lockdown. Which means they restricted liberties a heck of a lot less.felix said:
There is only so much any government can do - as always Jo Public must take responsibility for their behaviour. WRT Asia they did it better because generally they restricted individual liberties to a degree which would not be accepted elsewhere.LadyG said:
Except that the British media, eg Piers Morgan, were obsessed with the fact that we were doing exceptionally badly, and everyone involved should be burned at the stake.Foxy said:
The figures are pretty grim everywhere* and to an extent that becomes the new normal, and 500 deaths from covid is no longer a headline.FrancisUrquhart said:It is strange how second time around we aren't getting the nightly look how shit the UK is doing compared to rest of Europe from the media.
*except the Western Pacific nations.
Some of us at the time said, well, let's wait and see, this is going to last a year or two, at the end maybe we will all look roughly the same
As of now that second opinion looks valid. Britain took a tough first punch because we are a very open, global, trading, multicultural nation with a vast world city at its heart. Ideal conditions for spreading a bug like covid, before it is noticed.
Now the virus is hunting more obscure prey in eastern Europe, the Mid East, south Africa, etc
Don't get me wrong. HMG of the UK fucked up in multiple ways. But I'm increasingly unsure about any western countries which did NOT fuck up. Asia did it all better than any of us.
There is plenty of detail on Taiwan and New Zealand here.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanwpc/article/PIIS2666-6065(20)30044-4/fulltext
Essentially. Preparation. Mask wearing as a culture. Effective border controls. Enforced quarantine. Tracking. Experience of SARS.1 -
It's like a Theresa May press conference.IshmaelZ said:Spacex new launch time 2240 gmt
0 -
I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.Luckyguy1983 said:
It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09
OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.0 -
Wonder if this will finally push the UK into doing what it should have done 9 months ago
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1336777195755360257?s=20
1 -
What's odd is plenty of these folk recover. Whereas others in reasonable health don't.rottenborough said:
Pneumonia is traditionally known as Old Man's Friend I believe. But I don't see why covid wouldn't be the same: lots of frail people with complex multiple age-related issues succumb with covid, not because of it directly. I think it's odd.tlg86 said:
I guess it comes down to whether they think the person was going to snuff it soon and COVID/Flu/Pneumonia finished them off.rottenborough said:There is an oddity in the ONS death figures (latest given in link below - see fig 2) that I can't fathom. Maybe the PB brains trust can help?
3,000 a week are dying with flu/pneumonia as a contributing factor, but hardly anyone is dying due directly to these two. Whereas with covid deaths it is the reverse. 3,000 a week covid deaths. Most of the covid deaths are due to the disease and not with it as a contributor.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending27november20200 -
On excess deaths, I've looked at the non-COVID deaths since Week 21 (week-ending 22 May for this year) in excess of the five year average (i.e. the last 27 weeks when most of the COVID deaths have been picked up in the data). I've compared the figures to previous years for the same time period:
2010: -3,905
2011: -5,237
2012: 4,257
2013: -263
2014: 8,602
2015: 10,218
2016: 12,027
2017: 10,756
2018: 2,638
2019: 7,508
2020: -9,493
Since 2014 the trend has been for deaths to exceed the five year average, presumably due to our aging population. The 2018 figure may be a bit lower as it followed the Beast From The East, which took out quite a lot of people in March of that year.
Anyway, the -9,493 is a pretty substantial number. Perhaps we'd have had a negative number even without COVID, but it's hard not to come to the conclusion that it represents the shadow of COVID (i.e. they're already dead).0 -
Er... Germany still has about over a quarter of the deaths per million of the UK, France, Spain or Italy.FrancisUrquhart said:
The number of countries who "done good", with similar Western liberal values / economies, is now down to basically Australia and New Zealand.LadyG said:
Except that the British media, eg Piers Morgan, were obsessed with the fact that we were doing exceptionally badly, and everyone involved should be burned at the stake.Foxy said:
The figures are pretty grim everywhere* and to an extent that becomes the new normal, and 500 deaths from covid is no longer a headline.FrancisUrquhart said:It is strange how second time around we aren't getting the nightly look how shit the UK is doing compared to rest of Europe from the media.
*except the Western Pacific nations.
Some of us at the time said, well, let's wait and see, this is going to last a year or two, at the end maybe we will all look roughly the same
As of now that second opinion looks valid. Britain took a tough first punch because we are a very open, global, trading, multicultural nation with a vast world city at its heart. Ideal conditions for spreading a bug like covid, before it is noticed.
Now the virus is hunting more obscure prey in eastern Europe, the Mid East, south Africa, etc
Don't get me wrong. HMG of the UK fucked up in multiple ways. But I'm increasingly unsure about any western countries which did NOT fuck up. Asia did it all better than any of us.
I think Australia is the most interesting case, as unlike New Zealand, they have large direct connections to China and several very large dense cities. Amazing what shutting your border quickly, sensible hotel based quarantine system and restricting travel between states can do.
Anyone know why?0 -
Taiwan. Here's what serious enforced quarantine looks like.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/videos/world/2020/12/08/taiwan-coronavirus-covid-19-fine-8-seconds-migrant-worker-ctw-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn1 -
Though none were used in the end. The limiting factor is staff. ICU is very staff intensive too.RobD said:
And to think, some wanted the UK to join on purely ideological grounds.FrancisUrquhart said:
Well the EU ventilator scheme didn't go so well....When Czechia required them, they got all of 30, and had to beg, borrow, steal from all their neighbours.MaxPB said:
I think lots of EU countries are making their own plans. I've read about Germany, Spain and Italy already, this add Poland. Hungary are also signed up to buy the no booze Russian one but they might bail out of that now.FrancisUrquhart said:
From what I can tell the countries are getting frustrated on the lack of detail over delivery schedules and expected capacity. I think they're looking over the channel wondering why it's all happening late for a vaccine developed by a German company and manufactured in Belgium.
Similarly the EU vaccine scheme didn't prevent individual nations making their own purchases.0 -
Seems that may be about how the immune system reacts but there's a lot we don't know I guess.dixiedean said:
What's odd is plenty of these folk recover. Whereas others in reasonable health don't.rottenborough said:
Pneumonia is traditionally known as Old Man's Friend I believe. But I don't see why covid wouldn't be the same: lots of frail people with complex multiple age-related issues succumb with covid, not because of it directly. I think it's odd.tlg86 said:
I guess it comes down to whether they think the person was going to snuff it soon and COVID/Flu/Pneumonia finished them off.rottenborough said:There is an oddity in the ONS death figures (latest given in link below - see fig 2) that I can't fathom. Maybe the PB brains trust can help?
3,000 a week are dying with flu/pneumonia as a contributing factor, but hardly anyone is dying due directly to these two. Whereas with covid deaths it is the reverse. 3,000 a week covid deaths. Most of the covid deaths are due to the disease and not with it as a contributor.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending27november20201 -
When I got pneumonia a couple of years ago, I was the fittest I had been probably as an adult, and it took me 6 months to recover.dixiedean said:
What's odd is plenty of these folk recover. Whereas others in reasonable health don't.rottenborough said:
Pneumonia is traditionally known as Old Man's Friend I believe. But I don't see why covid wouldn't be the same: lots of frail people with complex multiple age-related issues succumb with covid, not because of it directly. I think it's odd.tlg86 said:
I guess it comes down to whether they think the person was going to snuff it soon and COVID/Flu/Pneumonia finished them off.rottenborough said:There is an oddity in the ONS death figures (latest given in link below - see fig 2) that I can't fathom. Maybe the PB brains trust can help?
3,000 a week are dying with flu/pneumonia as a contributing factor, but hardly anyone is dying due directly to these two. Whereas with covid deaths it is the reverse. 3,000 a week covid deaths. Most of the covid deaths are due to the disease and not with it as a contributor.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending27november20200 -
It will be an event celebrated by right thinking people across the free world if Burley and Rigby are dismissed from their jobs.
We can only hope.2 -
That is not the distinction as I understand it.rcs1000 said:
Here's the problem with the Texas lawsuit.contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
It alleges that easy access to mail in voting is unconstitutional. And therefore seeks to throw out the electoral college votes of four states which Biden won, and which had this form of voting.
But if you're going to throw out those results on the basis on easy mail in voting, you have to also get rid of Florida (super easy), Utah (compulsory), North Carolina (super easy) and a bunch of other states.
Indeed, the group you're left with is New York, Illinois, Texas and a few other North Eastern States who voted Democrat.
The distinction is that the mail in rules of Florida, Utah, North Carolina and others were made by the legislatures of those states. The rules of the states being sued were at least partially made by officials and not by legislatures. The constitution explicitly states that election rules must be made by legislatures and not by officials, or indeed courts.
Texas et all are claiming the sued states violated the constitution in framing their election rules. And that therefore those elections are unconstitutional.
0 -
Probably. Trouble is the two halves of the one country (the seaboards) are thousands of miles from each other !rcs1000 said:
I think the US would be much happier as two countries.contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....0 -
If SCOTUS overturns it then America is over as a federation of states. How many pieces it will split into and how bad the violence will be in the process is anyone's guess.Mexicanpete said:
It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.
Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".1 -
Just a shame the EU vaccine scheme prevents you from getting any vaccines.Foxy said:
Though none were used in the end. The limiting factor is staff. ICU is very staff intensive too.RobD said:
And to think, some wanted the UK to join on purely ideological grounds.FrancisUrquhart said:
Well the EU ventilator scheme didn't go so well....When Czechia required them, they got all of 30, and had to beg, borrow, steal from all their neighbours.MaxPB said:
I think lots of EU countries are making their own plans. I've read about Germany, Spain and Italy already, this add Poland. Hungary are also signed up to buy the no booze Russian one but they might bail out of that now.FrancisUrquhart said:
From what I can tell the countries are getting frustrated on the lack of detail over delivery schedules and expected capacity. I think they're looking over the channel wondering why it's all happening late for a vaccine developed by a German company and manufactured in Belgium.
Similarly the EU vaccine scheme didn't prevent individual nations making their own purchases.1 -
Provinces? Australia has states and territories.rcs1000 said:
It does help that the individual provinces in Australia are often two day drives from each other.FrancisUrquhart said:
The number of countries who "done good", with similar Western liberal values / economies, is now down to basically Australia and New Zealand.LadyG said:
Except that the British media, eg Piers Morgan, were obsessed with the fact that we were doing exceptionally badly, and everyone involved should be burned at the stake.Foxy said:
The figures are pretty grim everywhere* and to an extent that becomes the new normal, and 500 deaths from covid is no longer a headline.FrancisUrquhart said:It is strange how second time around we aren't getting the nightly look how shit the UK is doing compared to rest of Europe from the media.
*except the Western Pacific nations.
Some of us at the time said, well, let's wait and see, this is going to last a year or two, at the end maybe we will all look roughly the same
As of now that second opinion looks valid. Britain took a tough first punch because we are a very open, global, trading, multicultural nation with a vast world city at its heart. Ideal conditions for spreading a bug like covid, before it is noticed.
Now the virus is hunting more obscure prey in eastern Europe, the Mid East, south Africa, etc
Don't get me wrong. HMG of the UK fucked up in multiple ways. But I'm increasingly unsure about any western countries which did NOT fuck up. Asia did it all better than any of us.
I think Australia is the most interesting case, as unlike New Zealand, they have large direct connections to China and several very large dense cities. Amazing what shutting your border quickly, sensible hotel based quarantine system and restricting travel between states can do.0 -
Or most likely, those most at risk from winter respiratory ailments are isolating at home away from the coughing throngs, who incidentally seem to be coughing less anyway. Substantially better hygiene may also be a factor.tlg86 said:On excess deaths, I've looked at the non-COVID deaths since Week 21 (week-ending 22 May for this year) in excess of the five year average (i.e. the last 27 weeks when most of the COVID deaths have been picked up in the data). I've compared the figures to previous years for the same time period:
2010: -3,905
2011: -5,237
2012: 4,257
2013: -263
2014: 8,602
2015: 10,218
2016: 12,027
2017: 10,756
2018: 2,638
2019: 7,508
2020: -9,493
Since 2014 the trend has been for deaths to exceed the five year average, presumably due to our aging population. The 2018 figure may be a bit lower as it followed the Beast From The East, which took out quite a lot of people in March of that year.
Anyway, the -9,493 is a pretty substantial number. Perhaps we'd have had a negative number even without COVID, but it's hard not to come to the conclusion that it represents the shadow of COVID (i.e. they're already dead).0 -
Anyone still thinking this was a plot by China?...
Study suggests Covid-19 circulating in Italy in late November 2019
“Long-term, unrecognised spread of SARS-CoV-2 in northern Italy would help explain, at least in part, the devastating impact and rapid course of the first wave of COVID-19 in Lombardy.”0 -
That's a good point, but in upholding the Texas claim, the Supreme Court would not be overturning the result of the election.Mexicanpete said:
It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.
Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".
They would merely be ruling the election in four states unconstitutional, and returning the power to choose electors in those four states to their legislatures.
(I think!).0 -
Yep. Had pneumonia and pleurisy when I was 7/8. Even at that age it was a good 5 months. Am 54 now, and, thankfully, have never been anywhere near as ill since.FrancisUrquhart said:
When I got pneumonia a couple of years ago, I was the fittest I had been probably as an adult, and it took me 6 months to recover.dixiedean said:
What's odd is plenty of these folk recover. Whereas others in reasonable health don't.rottenborough said:
Pneumonia is traditionally known as Old Man's Friend I believe. But I don't see why covid wouldn't be the same: lots of frail people with complex multiple age-related issues succumb with covid, not because of it directly. I think it's odd.tlg86 said:
I guess it comes down to whether they think the person was going to snuff it soon and COVID/Flu/Pneumonia finished them off.rottenborough said:There is an oddity in the ONS death figures (latest given in link below - see fig 2) that I can't fathom. Maybe the PB brains trust can help?
3,000 a week are dying with flu/pneumonia as a contributing factor, but hardly anyone is dying due directly to these two. Whereas with covid deaths it is the reverse. 3,000 a week covid deaths. Most of the covid deaths are due to the disease and not with it as a contributor.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending27november20200 -
Wasn't Jeremy Hunt yesterday babbling about booking holidays ?CarlottaVance said:Wonder if this will finally push the UK into doing what it should have done 9 months ago
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1336777195755360257?s=200 -
It might almost make Sky News watchable again! Can you imagine?londonpubman said:It will be an event celebrated by right thinking people across the free world if Burley and Rigby are dismissed from their jobs.
We can only hope.3 -
Is that the one with Pierce Brosnan as a Soviet agent? I have it on DVD... somewhereLuckyguy1983 said:
It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09
OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.
0 -
Wouldn't we be doing a bit better in terms of COVID deaths if that were the case?Mexicanpete said:
Or most likely, those most at risk from winter respiratory ailments are isolating at home away from the coughing throngs, who incidentally seem to be coughing less anyway. Substantially better hygiene may also be a factor.tlg86 said:On excess deaths, I've looked at the non-COVID deaths since Week 21 (week-ending 22 May for this year) in excess of the five year average (i.e. the last 27 weeks when most of the COVID deaths have been picked up in the data). I've compared the figures to previous years for the same time period:
2010: -3,905
2011: -5,237
2012: 4,257
2013: -263
2014: 8,602
2015: 10,218
2016: 12,027
2017: 10,756
2018: 2,638
2019: 7,508
2020: -9,493
Since 2014 the trend has been for deaths to exceed the five year average, presumably due to our aging population. The 2018 figure may be a bit lower as it followed the Beast From The East, which took out quite a lot of people in March of that year.
Anyway, the -9,493 is a pretty substantial number. Perhaps we'd have had a negative number even without COVID, but it's hard not to come to the conclusion that it represents the shadow of COVID (i.e. they're already dead).0 -
Ok, which Fast Show character is BJ channeling here?
https://twitter.com/FreeQuayBuoy/status/1336769626475257864?s=200 -
If SCOTUS does not take the case the federation may also be finished because the suing states would think the contract they have signed is not worth that much.rottenborough said:
If SCOTUS overturns it then America is over as a federation of states. How many pieces it will split into and how bad the violence will be in the process is anyone's guess.Mexicanpete said:
It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.
Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".0 -
I was responding to Contrarian, who seems to think SCOTUS overturning the election would be optimal for the USA.rottenborough said:
If SCOTUS overturns it then America is over as a federation of states. How many pieces it will split into and how bad the violence will be in the process is anyone's guess.Mexicanpete said:
It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.
Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".0 -
A point which I would say is both entirely reasonable and also arguable.felix said:
Both examples for different reasons are much more able to 'cutoff' the RotW. NZ is a very small country in terms of people. Neither can really be compared to typical western countries. Mask wearing is now pretty universal in Spain but on its own is not enough.dixiedean said:
Well. That point is arguable.Taiwan managed it without a lockdown. Which means they restricted liberties a heck of a lot less.felix said:
There is only so much any government can do - as always Jo Public must take responsibility for their behaviour. WRT Asia they did it better because generally they restricted individual liberties to a degree which would not be accepted elsewhere.LadyG said:
Except that the British media, eg Piers Morgan, were obsessed with the fact that we were doing exceptionally badly, and everyone involved should be burned at the stake.Foxy said:
The figures are pretty grim everywhere* and to an extent that becomes the new normal, and 500 deaths from covid is no longer a headline.FrancisUrquhart said:It is strange how second time around we aren't getting the nightly look how shit the UK is doing compared to rest of Europe from the media.
*except the Western Pacific nations.
Some of us at the time said, well, let's wait and see, this is going to last a year or two, at the end maybe we will all look roughly the same
As of now that second opinion looks valid. Britain took a tough first punch because we are a very open, global, trading, multicultural nation with a vast world city at its heart. Ideal conditions for spreading a bug like covid, before it is noticed.
Now the virus is hunting more obscure prey in eastern Europe, the Mid East, south Africa, etc
Don't get me wrong. HMG of the UK fucked up in multiple ways. But I'm increasingly unsure about any western countries which did NOT fuck up. Asia did it all better than any of us.
There is plenty of detail on Taiwan and New Zealand here.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanwpc/article/PIIS2666-6065(20)30044-4/fulltext
Essentially. Preparation. Mask wearing as a culture. Effective border controls. Enforced quarantine. Tracking. Experience of SARS.0 -
Often it is directly the cause of death, and age is the biggest risk factor for death, not co morbidities.rottenborough said:
Pneumonia is traditionally known as Old Man's Friend I believe. But I don't see why covid wouldn't be the same: lots of frail people with complex multiple age-related issues succumb with covid, not because of it directly. I think it's odd.tlg86 said:
I guess it comes down to whether they think the person was going to snuff it soon and COVID/Flu/Pneumonia finished them off.rottenborough said:There is an oddity in the ONS death figures (latest given in link below - see fig 2) that I can't fathom. Maybe the PB brains trust can help?
3,000 a week are dying with flu/pneumonia as a contributing factor, but hardly anyone is dying due directly to these two. Whereas with covid deaths it is the reverse. 3,000 a week covid deaths. Most of the covid deaths are due to the disease and not with it as a contributor.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending27november2020
In terms of writing death certificates, covid can either be listed as the primary cause, or an underlying factor to acute renal failure for example.
It doesn't matter much, in terms of statistics as both are included in the ONS stats, rightly.
For detail on how to complete death certificates see here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-notes-for-completing-a-medical-certificate-of-cause-of-death
Death Certificates are generally completed by the Junior doctor looking after the patient. There is no central instruction in how to complete, other than the above, and certainly no incentive to complete in any particular diagnosis.0 -
With Junker, they would have definitely have had to make it a breakfast meeting.CarlottaVance said:0 -
More like Sir Les.Theuniondivvie said:Ok, which Fast Show character is BJ channeling here?
https://twitter.com/FreeQuayBuoy/status/1336769626475257864?s=20
0 -
Have the DUP said anything about yesterday's border check agreement ?
Normally we get the pavlovian 'Ulster says NO' response.0 -
-
I never made a claim such an outcome was optimal. But I don;t think an outcome that half the US (according to the polls) thinks is completely bent is an optimal solution either.Mexicanpete said:
I was responding to Contrarian, who seems to think SCOTUS overturning the election would be optimal for the USA.rottenborough said:
If SCOTUS overturns it then America is over as a federation of states. How many pieces it will split into and how bad the violence will be in the process is anyone's guess.Mexicanpete said:
It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.
Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".
0 -
True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.MrEd said:
I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.Luckyguy1983 said:
It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09
OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.1 -
-
Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.Luckyguy1983 said:
True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.MrEd said:
I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.Luckyguy1983 said:
It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09
OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl4ie3TaPGg - 50 secs in for a peerless joke about Joan Collins.williamglenn said:
More like Sir Les.Theuniondivvie said:Ok, which Fast Show character is BJ channeling here?
https://twitter.com/FreeQuayBuoy/status/1336769626475257864?s=201 -
The Germans are flying blind, they need to go into a proper lockdown.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
Guernsey has been robust on fining too:dixiedean said:Taiwan. Here's what serious enforced quarantine looks like.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/videos/world/2020/12/08/taiwan-coronavirus-covid-19-fine-8-seconds-migrant-worker-ctw-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn
https://www.itv.com/news/channel/2020-08-20/man-fined-10000-for-quarantine-breach-in-guernsey
I felt slightly sorry for a hotel worker who stopped off at the shop outside his accommodation for a bottle of water (£3500) but not the old fool who thought if he drank his pint by himself in the pub that counted as "isolating". A couple of seasonal workers who couldn't pay were sent to prison instead.0 -
No idea why the US absolutely smashing it on the COVID front...
https://twitter.com/ikepoker/status/1336789985681281025?s=200 -
The part of an election where you decide who wins based on the way the voters voted is kind of the key bit of itcontrarian said:
That's a good point, but in upholding the Texas claim, the Supreme Court would not be overturning the result of the election.Mexicanpete said:
It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.
Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".
They would merely be ruling the election in four states unconstitutional, and returning the power to choose electors in those four states to their legislatures.
(I think!).2 -
They only think it isn't legitimate because Trump has stoked his supporters with bs.contrarian said:
I never made a claim such an outcome was optimal. But I don;t think an outcome that half the US (according to the polls) thinks is completely bent is an optimal solution either.Mexicanpete said:
I was responding to Contrarian, who seems to think SCOTUS overturning the election would be optimal for the USA.rottenborough said:
If SCOTUS overturns it then America is over as a federation of states. How many pieces it will split into and how bad the violence will be in the process is anyone's guess.Mexicanpete said:
It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.
Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".
If he had taken defeat like any sane soul would have, none of this nonsense would be an issue.
Fake news from Trump.0 -
Diminished Britishness apparently.another_richard said:Have the DUP said anything about yesterday's border check agreement ?
Normally we get the pavlovian 'Ulster says NO' response.
https://twitter.com/duponline/status/1336366980098617350?s=200 -
I see you were wrong about Kay Burley and all her colleagues being sacked by 5pm today.gealbhan said:
That’s the spirit.Carnyx said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXbDQBsFFIEgealbhan said:
Nonsense. Boris has been at his Churchillian best all day, the UK are on for a bloody good result this evening.LadyG said:
The bottom line is Rosy is not in the same league as Boris as tough negotiator. The EU may have some good arguments, but that means zilch when comes down to a negotiation, the better negotiator wins regardless of the hand dealt.
The UK wanted it to come down to this. Boris v Rosy. UK wins. This is the guy who negotiated the brexit win with the voters, negotiated to be PM, then destroyed the Labour Party in its heartlands negotiating with the voters.
Disagree? You actually think Rosy is a tougher, better negotiator than Boris is? Just based on your prejudice not fact.
It’s like the Battle of Britain tonight. Blighty v Germany. If Global Britain were to last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was his finest hour.”
(I do so like that film, I must admit.)
Despite your insistence. I predicted a hostage to fortune.
You said, “we’ll see”. And so we did.0 -
contrarian said:
If SCOTUS does not take the case the federation may also be finished because the suing states would think the contract they have signed is not worth that much.rottenborough said:
If SCOTUS overturns it then America is over as a federation of states. How many pieces it will split into and how bad the violence will be in the process is anyone's guess.Mexicanpete said:
It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.
Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".contrarian said:
If SCOTUS does not take the case the federation may also be finished because the suing states would think the contract they have signed is not worth that much.rottenborough said:
If SCOTUS overturns it then America is over as a federation of states. How many pieces it will split into and how bad the violence will be in the process is anyone's guess.Mexicanpete said:
It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.
Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".
It's hard to believe the suing States think there is any merit in the cases. They are just playing to the gallery, no?contrarian said:
If SCOTUS does not take the case the federation may also be finished because the suing states would think the contract they have signed is not worth that much.rottenborough said:
If SCOTUS overturns it then America is over as a federation of states. How many pieces it will split into and how bad the violence will be in the process is anyone's guess.Mexicanpete said:
It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.
Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".0 -
Likewise the other two, but we don't yet have that much of a plan for what to do about it, and trends in diet (away from meat and dairy, toward vegetarianism, or worse, veganism) exacerbate the issue.Gallowgate said:
Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.Luckyguy1983 said:
True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.MrEd said:
I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.Luckyguy1983 said:
It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09
OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.1 -
deleted0
-
They have been suspended pending a full investigation by Sky and if Boulton's comments are anything to go by their careers with Sky are overAnabobazina said:
I see you were wrong about Kay Burley and all her colleagues being sacked by 5pm today.gealbhan said:
That’s the spirit.Carnyx said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXbDQBsFFIEgealbhan said:
Nonsense. Boris has been at his Churchillian best all day, the UK are on for a bloody good result this evening.LadyG said:
The bottom line is Rosy is not in the same league as Boris as tough negotiator. The EU may have some good arguments, but that means zilch when comes down to a negotiation, the better negotiator wins regardless of the hand dealt.
The UK wanted it to come down to this. Boris v Rosy. UK wins. This is the guy who negotiated the brexit win with the voters, negotiated to be PM, then destroyed the Labour Party in its heartlands negotiating with the voters.
Disagree? You actually think Rosy is a tougher, better negotiator than Boris is? Just based on your prejudice not fact.
It’s like the Battle of Britain tonight. Blighty v Germany. If Global Britain were to last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was his finest hour.”
(I do so like that film, I must admit.)
Despite your insistence. I predicted a hostage to fortune.
You said, “we’ll see”. And so we did.
I am surprised how you seem to want to defend them1 -
-
Let's hope Sky make the right call. Dismiss them now!Big_G_NorthWales said:
They have been suspended pending a full investigation by Sky and if Boulton's comments are anything to go by their careers with Sky are overAnabobazina said:
I see you were wrong about Kay Burley and all her colleagues being sacked by 5pm today.gealbhan said:
That’s the spirit.Carnyx said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXbDQBsFFIEgealbhan said:
Nonsense. Boris has been at his Churchillian best all day, the UK are on for a bloody good result this evening.LadyG said:
The bottom line is Rosy is not in the same league as Boris as tough negotiator. The EU may have some good arguments, but that means zilch when comes down to a negotiation, the better negotiator wins regardless of the hand dealt.
The UK wanted it to come down to this. Boris v Rosy. UK wins. This is the guy who negotiated the brexit win with the voters, negotiated to be PM, then destroyed the Labour Party in its heartlands negotiating with the voters.
Disagree? You actually think Rosy is a tougher, better negotiator than Boris is? Just based on your prejudice not fact.
It’s like the Battle of Britain tonight. Blighty v Germany. If Global Britain were to last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was his finest hour.”
(I do so like that film, I must admit.)
Despite your insistence. I predicted a hostage to fortune.
You said, “we’ll see”. And so we did.
I am surprised how you seem to want to defend them0 -
Source?contrarian said:
I never made a claim such an outcome was optimal. But I don;t think an outcome that half the US (according to the polls) thinks is completely bent is an optimal solution either.Mexicanpete said:
I was responding to Contrarian, who seems to think SCOTUS overturning the election would be optimal for the USA.rottenborough said:
If SCOTUS overturns it then America is over as a federation of states. How many pieces it will split into and how bad the violence will be in the process is anyone's guess.Mexicanpete said:
It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.
Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".0 -
You sure. Suspended via enquiry that sacks her is win for me surely?Anabobazina said:
I see you were wrong about Kay Burley and all her colleagues being sacked by 5pm today.gealbhan said:
That’s the spirit.Carnyx said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXbDQBsFFIEgealbhan said:
Nonsense. Boris has been at his Churchillian best all day, the UK are on for a bloody good result this evening.LadyG said:
The bottom line is Rosy is not in the same league as Boris as tough negotiator. The EU may have some good arguments, but that means zilch when comes down to a negotiation, the better negotiator wins regardless of the hand dealt.
The UK wanted it to come down to this. Boris v Rosy. UK wins. This is the guy who negotiated the brexit win with the voters, negotiated to be PM, then destroyed the Labour Party in its heartlands negotiating with the voters.
Disagree? You actually think Rosy is a tougher, better negotiator than Boris is? Just based on your prejudice not fact.
It’s like the Battle of Britain tonight. Blighty v Germany. If Global Britain were to last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was his finest hour.”
(I do so like that film, I must admit.)
Despite your insistence. I predicted a hostage to fortune.
You said, “we’ll see”. And so we did.0 -
Surely, under the law, it is now too late for even that, as safe harbor has passed.contrarian said:
That's a good point, but in upholding the Texas claim, the Supreme Court would not be overturning the result of the election.Mexicanpete said:
It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.
Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".
They would merely be ruling the election in four states unconstitutional, and returning the power to choose electors in those four states to their legislatures.
(I think!).1 -
Source? A lot of folk in the more northern climes and of more melanated skin yes, but less so down south and paler.Gallowgate said:
Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.Luckyguy1983 said:
True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.MrEd said:
I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.Luckyguy1983 said:
It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09
OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.0 -
Third stage of grief.MrEd said:
17 states have now joined in the case. Personally, and yes from a "Trumpster", I don't think they will win but such a block will make it harder for SCOTUS to say no.rcs1000 said:
Here's the problem with the Texas lawsuit.contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
It alleges that easy access to mail in voting is unconstitutional. And therefore seeks to throw out the electoral college votes of four states which Biden won, and which had this form of voting.
But if you're going to throw out those results on the basis on easy mail in voting, you have to also get rid of Florida (super easy), Utah (compulsory), North Carolina (super easy) and a bunch of other states.
Indeed, the group you're left with is New York, Illinois, Texas and a few other North Eastern States who voted Democrat.
And maybe that is one of the points, or at least the silver lining if they don't do the impossible and win the case. They get to present their evidence to SCOTUS, there might be things in there that people question or where it creates doubt.
Our thoughts and prayers etc.0 -
Are you deficient Gallowgate? In Vitamin D I mean?Gallowgate said:
Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.Luckyguy1983 said:
True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.MrEd said:
I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.Luckyguy1983 said:
It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09
OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.
0 -
Poor is the man whose Britishness depends on the indulgence of the Tory party.Theuniondivvie said:
Diminished Britishness apparently.another_richard said:Have the DUP said anything about yesterday's border check agreement ?
Normally we get the pavlovian 'Ulster says NO' response.1 -
Fuck them. Really, fuck them. I WANT No Deal now.CarlottaVance said:Wonder if this will finally push the UK into doing what it should have done 9 months ago
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1336777195755360257?s=20
They have totally overplayed their hand, they think we will submit, we will not submit, we are Britain, fuck em all. We are superior to them and we have never been Nazis and they are evil.0 -
Time to return to pre EEC/EU working practices. Another Brexit "benefit" ....Scott_xP said:0 -
Vitamin d is quite tricky to supplement too. It’s not clear that giving vit d actually increases levels. Like so much in biology it’s really complex. Homeostasis plays a huge role in setting levels of just about everything in the body, and supplements are often just making expensive urine and excreta.Luckyguy1983 said:
Likewise the other two, but we don't yet have that much of a plan for what to do about it, and trends in diet (away from meat and dairy, toward vegetarianism, or worse, veganism) exacerbate the issue.Gallowgate said:
Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.Luckyguy1983 said:
True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.MrEd said:
I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.Luckyguy1983 said:
It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09
OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.0 -
Sunshine doesn't seem to stop lots of people dying in Florida, Texas, Iran, India etc etcturbotubbs said:
Source? A lot of folk in the more northern climes and of more melanated skin yes, but less so down south and paler.Gallowgate said:
Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.Luckyguy1983 said:
True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.MrEd said:
I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.Luckyguy1983 said:
It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09
OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.
There is lots of Zinc in nuts and seeds. Vegetarians are not zinc deficient. Indeed there is reasonable evidence that being vegetarian is significantly life extending, and healthy years too.0 -
Biden is the legitimately elected next President, simple as that.Mexicanpete said:
They only think it isn't legitimate because Trump has stoked his supporters with bs.contrarian said:
I never made a claim such an outcome was optimal. But I don;t think an outcome that half the US (according to the polls) thinks is completely bent is an optimal solution either.Mexicanpete said:
I was responding to Contrarian, who seems to think SCOTUS overturning the election would be optimal for the USA.rottenborough said:
If SCOTUS overturns it then America is over as a federation of states. How many pieces it will split into and how bad the violence will be in the process is anyone's guess.Mexicanpete said:
It would be more worrying if SCOTUS overturns the election. It was as safe an election as the USA have ever had,contrarian said:
Good evening.Peter_the_Punter said:Meanwhile, back in the USA...
'Texas’s motion for leave to file a lawsuit, which seeks to have the justices throw out the election results in the states of Pennsylvania, Georgia, Michigan, and Wisconsin (all of which Trump lost), landed on the high court’s docket on Tuesday. Election law experts dismissed the lawsuit as nothing more than a stunt, albeit a “dangerous” one. But President Trump’s supporters seized on the simple fact that the justices are requiring the states to respond by Thursday as evidence that the court will actually hear—or has actually agreed to hear—the case. It is unlikely that the court will decide to hear the case and the court has not agreed to hear it.'
So, apart from Trump, Contrarian and Betfair, who stills thinks the result might be overturned?
I understand more than a dozen other US states have now joined Texas in seeking redress for the unconstitutional actions by the four states being sued
That's a lot of states for the Supreme Court to ignore, right there.
Indeed, what would be the point of the Supreme Court, or the constitution, if the case were ignored...? the whole thing would be a sham. Maybe it is, anyway.
Interestingly only 7 states formed the original confederacy....
if in the unlikely event SCOTUS were to hand it to Trump, what happens next? Civil war, key Democrats executed for treason, martial law, summary execution of protesters by the military and the police, what else? It would be American carnage.
Trump probably hasn't seen past his "win".
If he had taken defeat like any sane soul would have, none of this nonsense would be an issue.
Fake news from Trump.
However there is one glaring issue that no one has yet giving a proper answer to namely why did the rejection rate for mail-in ballots collapse at this election from historical norms?
And, given the Biden camp has admitted, it thought the election would be a lot tighter than the polls suggested, why were the Democrats recommending mail-in ballots when, in a tight election, a few thousand votes one way or another would swing it? Especially after the fiasco in New York, where over 20% of mail-in ballots were rejected?
0 -
I don't have a source, but it's what various doctors have told me over the years. It doesn't matter what colour skin people have if they spend most of the day indoors.turbotubbs said:
Source? A lot of folk in the more northern climes and of more melanated skin yes, but less so down south and paler.Gallowgate said:
Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.Luckyguy1983 said:
True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.MrEd said:
I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.Luckyguy1983 said:
It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09
OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.0 -
Unlikely, I supplement it quite heavily.londonpubman said:
Are you deficient Gallowgate? In Vitamin D I mean?Gallowgate said:
Pretty much everyone in the UK is vitamin D deficient.Luckyguy1983 said:
True, but that perception can be used to the advantage of the messaging, as it enables you to give more power to the messaging if you have it coming from the NHS, and perhaps even backed up by NHS data. Imagine how powerful it would be if the PM advised us (for example) that most severe cases of covid observed in hospital had commonalities across blood tests of depressed (for example) zinc, magnesium, and vitamin D. It would lead to a huge national conversation about nutrition that would be hugely beneficial.MrEd said:
I'd argue is that another major issue is we equate the whole issue of health with the NHS. If the NHS doesn't tell us to do it, we seem to think it's not that important. There is no coordination across departments or areas to improve people's fitness.Luckyguy1983 said:
It would have been great if the opportunity had been taken to use Covid as a spur to improving the general health and wellbeing of the nation. Sadly we don't have 'health' authorities, we have 'sickness' authorities - we patch people up when they get sick. Keeping them 'healthy' is restricted to absurdly simplistic messages like '5 a day' and 'lose weight'.another_richard said:
On a related note it would have done wonders for the health of the UK if people had improved their diet and fitness irrespective of the greatly reduced risk from covid.Fysics_Teacher said:
I'm sure it would be a lazy stereotype to suggest that getting Russians to stop drinking for two months would save a lot of lives even if the vaccine were a placebo.rottenborough said:
If Putin thinks a vaccine that requires Russians to lay off booze for two months is gonna work, then he doesn't know his own country.OnboardG1 said:
I read somewhere that the head of Gamelya said it was only six days. And now I can't find it and am mildly annoyed.Foxy said:Could be worse, could be having the Sputnik vaccine...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1336670466543669249?s=09
OT - I am watching a pretty good Michael Caine film called 'The Fourth Protocol'. Very good actor - I hope he's enjoying his retirement.0
