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Hatchings, Matchings and Dispatchings. – politicalbetting.com

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  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,005
    It's interesting that the Government keeps referring to the "North East Combined Authority" when in fact Newcastle upon Tyne, North Tyneside, and Northumberland left the North East Combined Authority in November 2018.

    They are clueless about the North East.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited November 2020
    Foxy said:

    The war ended with PM Attlee, not Churchill 🙄
    Yes when the Japanese fell.

    The National Socialists were defeated, Hitler died and Berlin fell under Churchill, in coalition with Attlee. Of course the UK continued to be involved in the far East but I don't believe Attlee rather than Churchill was critically instrumental in the usage of the nuclear weapons in Japan or ending the war there.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited November 2020
    MaxPB said:

    I think one thing people are missing here is that Moderna as are taking orders from private sector companies as well as governments. A very large number of tech companies and banks are going to get the Moderna vaccine for their employees from Q1 in the US and Q2 in Europe. That will change the government's roll out scheme as a whole host of 24-50 year olds in the private sector might already be vaccinated.
    Do you think the UK government is going to allow private import of vaccines, and a grey market to develop? The political optics of that are absolutely terrible, the headlines would write themselves.
  • Would you have a view on how much of the economic side is down to UK pre existing structural issues making us prone to a pandemic and how much down to this years policies?
    Interesting question. Austerity, poor quality housing and poor health outcomes generally I think left us vulnerable. We were too slow to lockdown and cut off infections from abroad which meant we had to lock down in a more destructive way once we did. Unforgivable given we had more advance warning than most countries on the Continent. Track and trace has been a disaster but that has been true in other Western countries I think. Mixed messaging eg Barnard Castle hasn't helped. I think more local capacity to fight this would have been really helpful, austerity has decimated local govt and I think that has been a big factor. The care homes issue is a big cause of the high death toll but probably marginal on the economic front. We seem to be doing better in this wave, thankfully. We really must learn lessons from this incident, we are very much in the lower tier in terms of response - whether we are the absolute worst or not when the dust settles is neither here nor there.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353
    On topic, I like a description I'd heard of the upcoming demographic issues with a big increase of the elderly, as a 'Silver Tsunami'. Sounds better than 'Grey Bomb'.
  • There's a difference between being open for collection only and open properly.

    Especially in December!
    Shoppers hanging around outdoors will have a low contribution to R so all in favour of shops selling what they can like that. Are they allowed the same trick in shopping centres - I guess so, and that is a bit more problematic if they get busy with Xmas shoppers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353

    Any chance of creating a homeland on Antartica for the culture warriors, where they can throw their childish insults at each other while the rest of us get on with our lives?

    It's called twitter.
  • Tier checker tool is working.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,098

    The changes that the US police are resisting making are very largely the ones that have been done, years ago in the UK.

    - Increased educational requirements
    - Background checks on recruits
    - Training in conflict de-escalation
    - Cracking down on internal racism
    - Expecting that "social work" is part of policing*.

    This is not to say that UK policing is perfect. Just that US policing is a long, long way behind on the modern ideas of policing.

    *A local PCSO is a perfect example of this - she systematically goes round checking on the 3-4 regular rough sleepers. Not hassling them, checking if they are OK, dealing with the conflicts with the people trying to muscle in on the Big Issue pitches etc.
    The US police, most obviously the NYPD seem actively to be on the MAGA side in the riots/protests and so forth. Now obviously there's a whole bunch of wrong'uns amongst Antifa (pretty much all of them) but there's an obvious antagonistic element to the policing which isn't really here in the UK.

    The police really should be neutral to BLM/anti-lockdown protest (Here in the UK they've been a bit on the other side) - but in the US it's been really really blatant and at the end of the day that's not good for the police or community.
  • Tier checker tool is working.

    What's the link?

    This says "Page not found" now? https://www.gov.uk/guidance/full-list-of-local-restriction-tiers-by-area
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,893
    MaxPB said:

    I think one thing people are missing here is that Moderna as are taking orders from private sector companies as well as governments. A very large number of tech companies and banks are going to get the Moderna vaccine for their employees from Q1 in the US and Q2 in Europe. That will change the government's roll out scheme as a whole host of 24-50 year olds in the private sector might already be vaccinated.
    There is also the matter of pace - once the vaccines are available, they are talking about vaccinating 3-4 million+ per week via the public route.

    At that rate, simply using the NHS flu lists first (elderly and vulnerable) then opening it up to everyone may be simpler than trying to construct a more elaborate methodology.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,064
    edited November 2020

    Interesting question. Austerity, poor quality housing and poor health outcomes generally I think left us vulnerable. We were too slow to lockdown and cut off infections from abroad which meant we had to lock down in a more destructive way once we did. Unforgivable given we had more advance warning than most countries on the Continent. Track and trace has been a disaster but that has been true in other Western countries I think. Mixed messaging eg Barnard Castle hasn't helped. I think more local capacity to fight this would have been really helpful, austerity has decimated local govt and I think that has been a big factor. The care homes issue is a big cause of the high death toll but probably marginal on the economic front. We seem to be doing better in this wave, thankfully. We really must learn lessons from this incident, we are very much in the lower tier in terms of response - whether we are the absolute worst or not when the dust settles is neither here nor there.
    Thanks, and agree very much on the local capacity and infrastructure. It seems simple things like regulating what happens within bars or restaurants are beyond us, whereas other countries have local police or officials who are more active. We just create law after law with little thought of how they can be enforced or by whom.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,988

    What's the link?

    This says "Page not found" now? https://www.gov.uk/guidance/full-list-of-local-restriction-tiers-by-area
    It's crashed, it's crashed!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Thank f that London is in Tier 2.

  • Thank f that London is in Tier 2.

    You off down the boozer to celebrate?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794
    Sandpit said:

    Do you think the UK government is going to allow private import of vaccines, and allow a grey market to exist? The political optics of that are absolutely terrible, the headlines would write themselves.
    I'm not sure that they can, ultimately if the Moderna vaccine receives MHRA approval then it's going to be very difficult to stop companies from getting it. Additionally I don't think they'll want to as it relieves the pressure on the state scheme and companies in the US will be going great guns with employee vaccination as it comes with gigantic economic benefits.

    In some ways having companies do it privately is a shortcut to reviving inner city economies such as London, Manchester, Edinburgh etc... which have been struggling without office workers.
  • Thanks, and agree very much on the local capacity and infrastructure. It seems simple things like regulating what happens within bars or restaurants are beyond us, whereas other countries have local police or officials who are more active. We just create law after law with little thought of how they can be enforced or by whom.
    Exactly. They can't be enforced because councils are broke and can barely meet their statutory responsibilities in areas like adult social care and collect the bins.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,840
    edited November 2020
    Ms Cyclefree Jr in Tier 2, it seems.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,893
    kle4 said:

    It's called twitter.
    Farcebook it were they scribble in long form....

    Emperor Penguins have a hard life as it is. Making them live with the Twatter mobs would be really, really nasty.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,473
    Pulpstar said:

    On the question of vaccine rollout, which vaccine and so on and so forth I'd hope the gov't would be employing the services/awaiting peer reviewed work by professors of medical statistics to calculate efficacy, population efficacy, safety and so forth.
    Moderna, Pfizer, Astra all doubtless have pros and cons and so forth but the headline press releases likely don't tell the full story. As someone with some knowledge of statistics (BSc Maths) I certainly couldn't work out from the limited public knowledge available which is 'best' - the Gov't should be looking to academic statisticians to make that determination, and then go with that.

    You clearly have no idea how the MHRA works. This is exactly what is being done right now. The press releases are media fluff, the actual approval depends on a few highly specialised experts in the field.
    Not long to wait now.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794

    Thank f that London is in Tier 2.

    Was worried about the c*** Sadiq pushing us into tier 3. Already got bottomless brunch at Wingman's booked!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,005
    Foxy said:

    Ms Cyclefree Jr in Tier 2, it seems.

    The worst-case scenario for them, if I recall? :(
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    Oh I think you'd be wrong about that. Itd be the WASPI women times 100 probably.

    But you're right if ever there was a moment to justify it itd be now. But the opposition would oppose it and Boris would get scared of a polling hit.
    Which is why you replace not abolish

    I haven’t done the numbers but how about linking it in some way to the minimum wage?
  • eristdoof said:

    I realise that Betfair paying out is a joke, but it has made me think about how much the world has changed in such a short time. As I watched Maradonna's hand go up it was the month I turned 18 and 3 months before I started uni. The only people who had computers at home were a few teenagers like me and the odd self employed person being adventurous with their accounting methods. The graphics in Donkey Kong were sophisticated. As good as no-one had access to the outside world via a network. At uni the multiuser (multics) computers were huge monsters of integrated circuit boards and wires filling a large room and they broke down almost every hour. The reseachers were just starting to get workstations, one for each small group, if they worked in a field that required number crunching. The idea of Betfair in 1986 was totally unimaginable.

    In 2006 just 20 years later, when the big World Cup news involved a bald head rather than an Argentinian hand, Betfair was already well established. Most people had some kind of computer at home with broadband access to the rest of the world. The numeric and graphical power of one laptop in 2006 was more than the Multics campus wide computers of the mid 80's.

    Since then the changes have been less visible at the PC/Laptop level (although a lot of progress has been made) and of course the big development has been with smartphones. Everyone is online. Most people are at a loss if they have to spend a day at home offline. It is now quite difficult to imagine just how unconnected the world was when I first went to uni, and just how much it has changed since then.
    If you want a nostalgic quirky TV series on PC development I would definitely recommend Halt and Catch Fire on Amazon Prime.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Offtopic, but some good news in the world today.

    A plane just landed in Tel Aviv from Dubai, the first scheduled passenger service between a Gulf Arab country and Israel, and following normalisation of diplomatic relations between the UAE and Israel a couple of months ago. It was met by president Netanyahu.

    https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/gcc/flydubai-lands-in-israeli-we-re-flying-into-a-new-era-says-netanyahu-1.1118198

    Another small step towards peace in the region.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,098

    You clearly have no idea how the MHRA works. This is exactly what is being done right now. The press releases are media fluff, the actual approval depends on a few highly specialised experts in the field.
    Not long to wait now.
    I don't even know without googling what MHRA stands for, was simply stating my opinion on how I believe things should work. That it apparently is being done this way is undoubtedly a 'good thing'.

    I think you've read into my comment more than I've written.
  • Hancock: An explanation being published for each region as to why they are in which Tier.

    That's good, wasn't expecting that because of the sheer volume of regions being placed into tiers.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,252

    I hope everyone is going to enjoy the ending of lockdown. What a difference we will all see...

    Enjoy the next week.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353
    Charles said:

    Which is why you replace not abolish

    I haven’t done the numbers but how about linking it in some way to the minimum wage?
    Anything that means some people get less would be called outrage. I'm very cynical when it comes to grey vote incentives.
  • There's a long list of areas in England's top tier of Covid rules, tier three, where many businesses must close.

    The areas are as follows:

    North East
    ---------
    Tees Valley Combined Authority:
    Hartlepool
    Middlesbrough
    Stockton-on-Tees
    Redcar and Cleveland
    Darlington

    North East Combined Authority:
    Sunderland
    South Tyneside
    Gateshead
    Newcastle upon Tyne
    North Tyneside
    County Durham
    Northumberland

    North West
    --------
    Greater Manchester
    Lancashire
    Blackpool
    Blackburn with Darwen

    Yorkshire and The Humber
    -----------------------
    The Humber
    West Yorkshire
    South Yorkshire

    West Midlands
    ------------
    Birmingham and Black Country
    Staffordshire and Stoke-on-Trent
    Warwickshire, Coventry and Solihull

    East Midlands
    -----------
    Derby and Derbyshire
    Nottingham and Nottinghamshire
    Leicester and Leicestershire
    Lincolnshire

    South East
    ---------
    Slough (remainder of Berkshire is in tier two)
    Kent and Medway

    South West
    ---------
    Bristol
    South Gloucestershire
    North Somerset

    And businesses forced to close in all of them will get next to diddly squat in compensation if the following is true:

    https://twitter.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/1331884141223309313
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,252
    Cornwall in Tier 1 - yet has a 100-man outbreak at a Bodmin meat processing plant.

    Go figure. (Maybe there is a benefit in having only Conservative MPs in your county when it comes to lobbying....)
  • 5 indicators for explaining tiers, pressure on NHS one of them.

    I wonder what the other four are.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,886

    Hancock: An explanation being published for each region as to why they are in which Tier.

    That's good, wasn't expecting that because of the sheer volume of regions being placed into tiers.

    Surely that's the bare minimum we should expect?
  • dixiedean said:

    Surely that's the bare minimum we should expect?
    I expect there would be an explanation but I wasn't expecting it to be published.

    As far as I know they've not been published previously.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,139
    M
    Carnyx said:

    And the British empire, industry, and public finances variously lost, on the way out, worn out and knackered. The first at least was rather important to Mr Churchill.

    Edit: not that anyone remotely of his persuasion had any choice. But it's certainly possibvle to argue that the British lost the war as well.
    Looking beyond Poland's independence (lost) and retaining the Empire (lost, and a good thing it was), the thing that Britain won due to fighting the war was freedom from Nazi subjugation.

    That's definitely a win, even if the price was high.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353

    Cornwall in Tier 1 - yet has a 100-man outbreak at a Bodmin meat processing plant.

    Go figure. (Maybe there is a benefit in having only Conservative MPs in your county when it comes to lobbying....)

    I can't work out if that's a criticism or a suggestion we should have 100% Tory MPs.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited November 2020

    Not at all, anyone on either side bringing up their hurt about Colston statue in a discussion about foreign aid is a snowflake (imo). It is just not relevant.

    Anyone on either side bringing up their hurt about Colston statue in a debate about statues, fair enough.
    And, just to assuage the feelings of the right, many of those being cancelled were politically on the left 😉

    UCL relabelled the Pearson buildings -- Karl Pearson was a prominent socialist and friend of Karl Marx.

    Marie Stopes International renamed itself in November -- Marie Stopes described herself as a "socialist and extreme feminist".

    Margaret Sanger building was renamed in NYC -- Sanger was a left-wing heroine of the civil rights movement.

    Given the prevalence of eugenics in intellectual left-wing circles in the 1920s/1930s, in the Labour Party and especially the Liberal Party (through their connections with the Darwin family) -- we should soon have a whole generation of left-wing intellectuals/politicians cancelled.

    We have yet to really start on the renaming of the eugenicists -- HG Wells, GB Shaw, almost the whole Bloomsbury group, J. Maynard Keynes.

    Plenty for our iconoclastic fury. Plenty on the left for renaming as well, to cheer up BluestBlue.
  • I expect there would be an explanation but I wasn't expecting it to be published.

    As far as I know they've not been published previously.
    There is a summary by area explaining the Tier at the bottom of this webpage:

    https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2020-11-26/hcws608
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600

    Cornwall in Tier 1 - yet has a 100-man outbreak at a Bodmin meat processing plant.

    Go figure. (Maybe there is a benefit in having only Conservative MPs in your county when it comes to lobbying....)

    Should also kill off Mebyon Kernow for good I would have thought, Boris can be PM of Cornwall for life!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited November 2020

    Cornwall in Tier 1 - yet has a 100-man outbreak at a Bodmin meat processing plant.

    Go figure. (Maybe there is a benefit in having only Conservative MPs in your county when it comes to lobbying....)

    Hancock just said outbreaks are a specific factor they're looking at, eg other data might suggest Tier 3 but if there's a specific outbreak then it might be Tier 2.

    So looks like exactly that is relevant there too.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    MaxPB said:

    I'm not sure that they can, ultimately if the Moderna vaccine receives MHRA approval then it's going to be very difficult to stop companies from getting it. Additionally I don't think they'll want to as it relieves the pressure on the state scheme and companies in the US will be going great guns with employee vaccination as it comes with gigantic economic benefits.

    In some ways having companies do it privately is a shortcut to reviving inner city economies such as London, Manchester, Edinburgh etc... which have been struggling without office workers.
    I don't disagree, but they're more likely want to commandeer any vaccines for the elderly while there is limited supply.

    Anything that looks like some people able to bypass the queue, will be an utter nightmare politically for the government.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,893
    Sandpit said:

    I don't disagree, but they're more likely want to commandeer any vaccines for the elderly while there is limited supply.

    Anything that looks like some people able to bypass the queue, will be an utter nightmare politically for the government.
    It is worth noting that N95 masks were being... appropriated on import by the government earlier in the year. Seized by Customs....
  • There is a summary by area explaining the Tier at the bottom of this webpage:

    https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2020-11-26/hcws608
    Thanks. Interesting.

    I believe Cyclefree Jr is in Cumbria? Looks from the rationale there it will be more likely to move to Tier 1 than Tier 3 in the future.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,473

    Interesting question. Austerity, poor quality housing and poor health outcomes generally I think left us vulnerable. We were too slow to lockdown and cut off infections from abroad which meant we had to lock down in a more destructive way once we did. Unforgivable given we had more advance warning than most countries on the Continent. Track and trace has been a disaster but that has been true in other Western countries I think. Mixed messaging eg Barnard Castle hasn't helped. I think more local capacity to fight this would have been really helpful, austerity has decimated local govt and I think that has been a big factor. The care homes issue is a big cause of the high death toll but probably marginal on the economic front. We seem to be doing better in this wave, thankfully. We really must learn lessons from this incident, we are very much in the lower tier in terms of response - whether we are the absolute worst or not when the dust settles is neither here nor there.
    I know Barnard Castle constantly gets brought up, but my sense is that the overwhelming majority thought it was wrong, he should have been sacked/resigned, but don't use it as an excuse to break rules themselves. Those that do break rules and bring it up, I am convinced, would have done it anyway, and its just a convenient thing to say.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,988

    And, just to assuage the feelings of the right, many of those being cancelled were politically on the left 😉

    UCL relabelled the Pearson buildings -- Karl Pearson was a prominent socialist and friend of Karl Marx.

    Marie Stopes International renamed itself in November -- Marie Stopes described herself as a "socialist and extreme feminist".

    Margaret Sanger building was renamed in NYC -- Sanger was a left-wing heroine of the civil rights movement.

    Given the prevalence of eugenics in intellectual left-wing circles in the 1920s/1930s, in the Labour Party and especially the Liberal Party (through their connections with the Darwin family) -- we should soon have a whole generation of left-wing intellectuals/politicians cancelled.

    We have yet to really start on the renaming of the eugenicists -- HG Wells, GB Shaw, almost the whole Bloomsbury group, J. Maynard Keynes.

    Plenty for our iconoclastic fury. Plenty on the left for renaming as well, to cheer up BluestBlue.
    Milton Keynes renamed Milton Friedman?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    And, just to assuage the feelings of the right, many of those being cancelled were politically on the left 😉

    UCL relabelled the Pearson buildings -- Karl Pearson was a prominent socialist and friend of Karl Marx.

    Marie Stopes International renamed itself in November -- Marie Stopes described herself as a "socialist and extreme feminist".

    Margaret Sanger building was renamed in NYC -- Sanger was a left-wing heroine of the civil rights movement.

    Given the prevalence of eugenics in intellectual left-wing circles in the 1920s/1930s, in the Labour Party and especially the Liberal Party (through their connections with the Darwin family) -- we should soon have a whole generation of left-wing intellectuals/politicians cancelled.

    We have yet to really start on the renaming of the eugenicists -- HG Wells, GB Shaw, almost the whole Bloomsbury group, J. Maynard Keynes.

    Plenty for our iconoclastic fury. Plenty on the left for renaming as well, to cheer up BluestBlue.
    You mean Keynesian economics could be cancelled? And Milton Keynes too? Things are looking up at last! :wink:
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    HYUFD said:

    Should also kill off Mebyon Kernow for good I would have thought, Boris can be PM of Cornwall for life!
    The rate Boris is going, Cornwall may soon be the only Celtic nation left in the UK.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,656
    eristdoof said:

    I realise that Betfair paying out is a joke, but it has made me think about how much the world has changed in such a short time. As I watched Maradonna's hand go up it was the month I turned 18 and 3 months before I started uni. The only people who had computers at home were a few teenagers like me and the odd self employed person being adventurous with their accounting methods. The graphics in Donkey Kong were sophisticated. As good as no-one had access to the outside world via a network. At uni the multiuser (multics) computers were huge monsters of integrated circuit boards and wires filling a large room and they broke down almost every hour. The reseachers were just starting to get workstations, one for each small group, if they worked in a field that required number crunching. The idea of Betfair in 1986 was totally unimaginable.

    In 2006 just 20 years later, when the big World Cup news involved a bald head rather than an Argentinian hand, Betfair was already well established. Most people had some kind of computer at home with broadband access to the rest of the world. The numeric and graphical power of one laptop in 2006 was more than the Multics campus wide computers of the mid 80's.

    Since then the changes have been less visible at the PC/Laptop level (although a lot of progress has been made) and of course the big development has been with smartphones. Everyone is online. Most people are at a loss if they have to spend a day at home offline. It is now quite difficult to imagine just how unconnected the world was when I first went to uni, and just how much it has changed since then.
    1986 was about the time I stopped being at interested in football. I can't remember watching any of the World Cup games. Ipswich had just been relegated (seems an odd thing to be surprised by now but as 12 year old in the mid 80s I had known nearly nothing but their success under Bobby Robson), Heysel had left me sick & ashamed and, most importantly, I had singularly and spectcularly failed to get anywhere near my new secondary school team.

    I was, at that time, trying without success to get my Dad to buy me a modem so I could play massive multiplayer online games on my C64 (and then Amiga) but he couldn't see the point and wanted me to try playing rugby instead..
  • Cornwall in Tier 1 - yet has a 100-man outbreak at a Bodmin meat processing plant.

    Go figure. (Maybe there is a benefit in having only Conservative MPs in your county when it comes to lobbying....)

    If that's the place I'm thinking of (where a friend of mine briefly worked) then knowledge of its hygiene practices could well turn someone vegetarian.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    You off down the boozer to celebrate?
    Yep, will be next week for sure.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,893

    Thanks. Interesting.

    I believe Cyclefree Jr is in Cumbria? Looks from the rationale there it will be more likely to move to Tier 1 than Tier 3 in the future.
    "The picture in Cumbria is broadly improving although case rates in Carlisle and South Lakeland are increasing – with increases likely due to a large school outbreak. Case rates in over 60s are above 100 per 100,000 in Carlisle and Barrow-in-Furness. These case rates are too high for allocation to Tier 1 but Cumbria’s trajectory does currently not warrant inclusion in Tier 3."
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794
    Sandpit said:

    I don't disagree, but they're more likely want to commandeer any vaccines for the elderly while there is limited supply.

    Anything that looks like some people able to bypass the queue, will be an utter nightmare politically for the government.
    Nah, because it's the Moderna vaccine of which the state is only buying 5m doses. I don't see it as a huge concern.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    It is worth noting that N95 masks were being... appropriated on import by the government earlier in the year. Seized by Customs....
    I didn't know that, but hardly surprising. I can see the same happening with vaccines - if government wants to lose 20 points in the polls in a week, they'll allow a private VIP vaccine service.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,252
    kle4 said:

    I can't work out if that's a criticism or a suggestion we should have 100% Tory MPs.
    Everyone would be in Tier 1! Yay!

    Er.....
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,064
    edited November 2020
    MaxPB said:

    I'm not sure that they can, ultimately if the Moderna vaccine receives MHRA approval then it's going to be very difficult to stop companies from getting it. Additionally I don't think they'll want to as it relieves the pressure on the state scheme and companies in the US will be going great guns with employee vaccination as it comes with gigantic economic benefits.

    In some ways having companies do it privately is a shortcut to reviving inner city economies such as London, Manchester, Edinburgh etc... which have been struggling without office workers.
    Wouldnt it be quite easy to do this with the licensing? License it subject to being distributed by the NHS approved list and make it illegal elsewhere?

    I would expect it to be unavailable privately in the UK, but for there to be a vaccine tourism industry for the super elite where they fly somewhere to get it.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,656

    I know Barnard Castle constantly gets brought up, but my sense is that the overwhelming majority thought it was wrong, he should have been sacked/resigned, but don't use it as an excuse to break rules themselves. Those that do break rules and bring it up, I am convinced, would have done it anyway, and its just a convenient thing to say.
    If Barnard Castle has any lasting significance it will be if Starmer manages to make his "one rule for the public, one rule for the PM friends" stick going forward. If so then it will be significant - it doesn't really have any other significance IMHO.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,750
    MaxPB said:

    I think one thing people are missing here is that Moderna as are taking orders from private sector companies as well as governments. A very large number of tech companies and banks are going to get the Moderna vaccine for their employees from Q1 in the US and Q2 in Europe. That will change the government's roll out scheme as a whole host of 24-50 year olds in the private sector might already be vaccinated.
    'A whole host' I'm not sure the percentage of the population that work in said firms but I doubt it is significant. Or that they represent the highest risk categories.

    I can't see a better way of indicating the disparity of wealth and health in the country than the city folk and 'fintech bros' vaccinated ahead of those with a true need. Ms Rand would be so happy
  • HYUFD said:
    F##k off Farage.

    Go back to America and drown your sorrows with Trumpists.
  • Looks like incitement to me. Nasty little shit stirring fascist.
    He is being a complete prick. It's like lockdown if people break the rules, because they'll inevitably end up in Tier 3. If people aren't the total c*nts that Farage obviously think they are, and stick to the rules, they'll likely move into Tier 1.
  • HYUFD said:
    I wonder if all the SE London MPs who argued strongly for their constituencies to be in the Kent rather than London covid area in October still feel the same way......
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,005

    He is being a complete prick. It's like lockdown if people break the rules, because they'll inevitably end up in Tier 3. If people aren't the total c*nts that Farage obviously think they are, and stick to the rules, they'll likely move into Tier 1.
    What difference does it make? We've been in "Tier 2" since mid September and it's getting worse not better.
  • kle4 said:

    Oh I think you'd be wrong about that. Itd be the WASPI women times 100 probably.

    But you're right if ever there was a moment to justify it itd be now. But the opposition would oppose it and Boris would get scared of a polling hit.
    Let's net forget that the much vaunted so-called "triple lock" has turned out to be tougher on state pensioners than the settlement they would have got had Labour's scheme continued. Basically because one of the three elements was changed to redefine inflation using the CPI rather than the higher RPI. Labour's scheme used the higher of 2.5% or RPI. The current scheme uses the higher of 2.5%, average wage growth or CPI. Because wage growth has been so anaemic since 2010, the switch to CPI had the greater impact.

    It was basically one of Osborne's con tricks. He introduced the link to earnings at precisely the point when he knew that wage growth was about to collapse with the onset of austerity.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    MaxPB said:

    Was worried about the c*** Sadiq pushing us into tier 3. Already got bottomless brunch at Wingman's booked!
    Sadiq has been lobbying heavily for Tier 2!!
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,552
    Just coming back in the house, reckon the government have gone slightly stricter than I called on Tuesday, but I'm not too displeased with my calls or, indeed, the government's. My misses are primarily extra caution in taking counties a little under 300 per 100k and reducing rates out of T3.

    My misses: North Lancs (predicted 2 is 3), NE ex. Tees (predicted 2 is 3), S. Yorks (pred 2 is 3), Notts (pred 2 is 3), Derbs, Leics, Lincs (pred part 3 are full 3), Cov & Warks (pred 2 is 3), Avon (pred 2 is 3), IoW (pred 2 is 1 - but called Cornwall).
  • What difference does it make? We've been in "Tier 2" since mid September and it's getting worse not better.
    May be that enough people up there aren't sticking to the rules?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Wouldnt it be quite easy to do this with the licensing? License it subject to being distributed by the NHS approved list and make it illegal elsewhere?

    I would expect it to be unavailable privately in the UK, but for there to be a vaccine tourism industry for the super elite where they fly somewhere to get it.
    FFS we are not talking about spending millions of dollars to be infused with the blood of newborn infants, we are talking about spending £100 out of one's own pocket, freeing up NHS resources in the process. There are people who can't afford that but they are not the norm. A pandemic is bad enough without using it as a pretext to introduce authoritarian communism while you're at it.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,005

    May be that enough people up there aren't sticking to the rules?
    I don't blame them now to be honest. Everyone I know is completely sick of it.
  • I don't blame them now to be honest. Everyone I know is completely sick of it.
    I hope they don't get completely sick of something else as a result. But chances are..
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,005

    I hope they don't get completely sick of something else as a result. But chances are..
    How insightful.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,252

    And businesses forced to close in all of them will get next to diddly squat in compensation if the following is true:

    https://twitter.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/1331884141223309313
    Now, if only they had voted a raft of Tory MPs like Cornwall.

    That'll larn yer.....
  • Sadiq has been lobbying heavily for Tier 2!!
    Yes I'm not a Sadiq friend but I give him credit for that
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,005

    Now, if only they had voted a raft of Tory MPs like Cornwall.

    That'll larn yer.....
    Having Tory MPs doesn't seem to have helped the North East.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    MaxPB said:

    Nah, because it's the Moderna vaccine of which the state is only buying 5m doses. I don't see it as a huge concern.
    The numbers themselves would be small, and unlikely to make much of a difference to the big picture, on that we can agree.

    But the optics and politics of having certain groups of rich people able to jump the queue for vaccines, while elderly and vulnerable are still waiting for NHS vaccines, are absolutely horrific!
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,951
    Carnyx said:

    I wouldn't take the P&J as gospel.

    But I'm not sure that Malky and I would react in the way you assume. In particular, I am increasingly convinced that neither you nor anyone else at PB - let alone the SCUP and their little helpers have thought this one right through to the wider implications.
    Not sure what you mean as taking P&J as gospel. It's looks like fairly straight reporting rather than comment.

    Intrigued by your latter point. What's the downside to SCUP etc of an SNP civil war? If Sturgeon goes down the optics won't be great, surely?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600

    The rate Boris is going, Cornwall may soon be the only Celtic nation left in the UK.
    I doubt it, Boris also won the largest number of Welsh Tory MPs since 1983 last year
  • IshmaelZ said:

    FFS we are not talking about spending millions of dollars to be infused with the blood of newborn infants, we are talking about spending £100 out of one's own pocket, freeing up NHS resources in the process. There are people who can't afford that but they are not the norm. A pandemic is bad enough without using it as a pretext to introduce authoritarian communism while you're at it.
    I would probably buy one if I could for selfish reasons, I certainly wouldn't think of it as helping the NHS, more queue jumping but would probably still do it. If I was in charge of govt policy I would absolutely put up barriers to the queue jumping, and I think this govt will do so as well.

    It is already pretty hard to get a private flu jab now, with the govt agreeing with the big chains to treat by NHS priority lists. If they are doing that for flu, expect it with covid.

    Practicality not communism.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600
    edited November 2020

    Having Tory MPs doesn't seem to have helped the North East.
    Most North East MPs are still Labour, Labour has 19 North East MPs, the Tories 10 even after GE19
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_England
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,840
    Sandpit said:

    The numbers themselves would be small, and unlikely to make much of a difference to the big picture, on that we can agree.

    But the optics and politics of having certain groups of rich people able to jump the queue for vaccines, while elderly and vulnerable are still waiting for NHS vaccines, are absolutely horrific!
    I don't think it would be legal to restrict a vaccine licence to NHS. If a private company can legitimately lay hands on a stock, they should be legal to use it.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,005
    edited November 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Most North East MPs are still Labour
    Thank you Captain Obvious.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317
    .
    Foxy said:

    Massive LD surge! Should be a comfortable majority.
    SNP making inroads in Cornwall though. I assume Tier 0 is blue? ;)
  • Foxy said:

    I don't think it would be legal to restrict a vaccine licence to NHS. If a private company can legitimately lay hands on a stock, they should be legal to use it.
    Didnt the govt requisition all private hospitals early in the pandemic? Why cant they do the same with chemists and others licensed to offer vaccines?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    I hope they don't get completely sick of something else as a result. But chances are..
    Innumeracy.

    The chances are very much against catching Covid-19, less so being made seriously ill by it.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600

    Now, if only they had voted a raft of Tory MPs like Cornwall.

    That'll larn yer.....
    Liverpool will only be in Tier 2 despite only having Labour MPs, Kent has every MP bar 1 Tory, it is in Tier 3
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,750
    IshmaelZ said:

    FFS we are not talking about spending millions of dollars to be infused with the blood of newborn infants, we are talking about spending £100 out of one's own pocket, freeing up NHS resources in the process. There are people who can't afford that but they are not the norm. A pandemic is bad enough without using it as a pretext to introduce authoritarian communism while you're at it.
    The vaccines have been public-private initiatives. It is not communism to want the vaccine to go to those who need it not those who can pay.
  • HYUFD said:

    Most North East MPs are still Labour, Labour has 19 North East MPs, the Tories 10 even after GE19
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_England
    Which is why we're being punished?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,647

    May be that enough people up there aren't sticking to the rules?
    The beatings will continue...
  • To paraphrase Stalin in 1941, if they want a Vernichtungskrieg, then they will get one...
    I'm confused, who are the Stalinists in this puerile metaphor now?
  • Innumeracy.

    The chances are very much against catching Covid-19, less so being made seriously ill by it.

    The chances are... increased, if people don't follow the rules. For both the rule breakers, and those around them. They're unlikely to die directly of innumeracy.
This discussion has been closed.