Cummings – the end of the line for his time at Number 10? – politicalbetting.com

HYUFD said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

HYUFD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

HYUFD said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Mexicanpete said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/JeremyWarnerUK/status/1327177768363298816?s=20

Tory 2024 landslide looking less likely on that news.

Probably, something that is on Sunak's to do list at some point in the future.

Surely the 2020 election provides them with a mandate for this. I'm sure it was in their manifesto somewhere. In fact, privatising the NHS was why people voted for Brexit. Let's Get Brexit Done and Privatise the NHS! Tax cuts for Tory donors all round.

It is not privatising the NHS, it would be moving to a social insurance healthcare system like even France and Germany have if you read the article

France and Germany have a mixture of public and private insurance and a mixture of public and private provision (eg 38% of French hospital beds are in private hospitals). So moving from a system of public provision free at the point of use to this kind of system is accurately referred to as privatisation.
The purpose of this kind of move is to switch the burden of paying for the system from all taxpayers onto individuals. Generally it will mean higher payments for middle income people on PAYE as a French or German system is basically a hypothecated tax on salaried income, with a resultant drop in tax for those with large incomes from capital. Plus you will allow the wealthy to access superior care with some of the cost subsidised, rather than having to pay for the NHS while also paying for private insurance as now. You can see why this is a donor class wet dream and why it was so important to dangle Brexit in front of those red wall voters, who would never have voted for this but may be getting it anyway, judging from this article.

We need a mix of public and private provision too, Labour's ideological obsession with the state running and funding all healthcare via tax is why it is held back.

However that is still not the same as having a US style system where private insurance funds virtually all healthcare and all hospitals are private

The German government spends more on healthcare than ours. So does the American government.

The US only spends more once you include private spending, we have about the average public spending on health but lower private spending than average

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-u-s-similar-public-spending-private-sector-spending-triple-comparable-countries

Dura_Ace said:

OldKingCole said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good morning

I wake up this morning to hear Cummings is leaving

I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings

I hope a deal with the EU is now more likely with a fazed transition

I expect Boris is likely to remain in post through 2021 as he attempts to turn things round and especially move to a strong climate change agenda working with Joe Biden and others culminating in the climate conference next year in Glasgow

And of course Trump will be over in January which is really good news

New PB rule, if you're going to use French words, you have to make sure you use the appropriate l'accent circonflexe et al.

That is beyond my ability to be honest

Might I suggest that you do what I do; cheat. That is I look up what I want to to write in French on Google or Google translate, then cut and paste.

I can spot the output of Google Translate in my students' work with 100% accuracy. It's haphazard with les prépositions and at least four of the seven non-compound tenses. I think it's actually worse going from French to English as English has twelve verb tenses and we use them all.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

MaxPB said:

Chris said:

MaxPB said:

CarlottaVance said:

Another The Crown trailer:

https://twitter.com/NetflixUK/status/1326922024158191620?s=20

Anderson seems better in this than the previous snippets.

I've been reliably informed that Anderson is going to win all of the awards, apparently her portrayal is incredible and the studio are putting her forwards for basically every award going.

Hmm. I haven't watched a minute of The Crown, but I should like to see Gillian Anderson as Thatcher.

Do any connoisseurs have a view about whether it's feasible to start watching at this point?

You probably can as the characters are largely based on real life so you can pick up most of the character development pretty easily if you know the story of the royals and post war political history (and if you post here then I expect you have a passing interest in the latter at least!).

It's an absolutely incredible series though and I can't recommend watching it from the start enough. Genuinely the best British TV series to be made in ages.

Agreed, the Crown got us through early lockdown. It's basically a very superior soap opera. Series 1 and 2 are the best so far anyway, Claire Foy is an incredible actress (as she was in Wolf Hall too), there's too much of Sophie from Peep Show in Olivia Colman's depiction of HMQ if you ask me. Although the Aberfan episode in series 3 was very moving. Can't wait for series 4.

edmundintokyo said:

MrEd said:

SandyRentool said:

HYUFD said:

Adonis backs the Euro

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1327183020349075457?s=20

I agree. While my preference was Leave, if we had ended up remaining I would rather have the full-fat version with the Euro, Schengen, the works. Better than the half-baked membership we have limped along with for so long.

If we did that, then the other thing we would have to do - and should probably do - is reform the current social security / health system from a free at the point use system to one based on the insurance principle (and, no, I don't think the current sham NICs count as a true contributory system).

A contributory system always sounds nice but the problem is that either you do what it says on the tin and deny access to people who can't or won't contribute, in which case you're leaving people to die outside the hospital for lack of healthcare, or you don't, in which case you've created a load of administration to no purpose.

You can of course provide *better* services to people who have contributed, and only a bare minimum to the deadbeats, but public services generally aren't funded to have a lot of fat left to cut, so that implies that you're spending a load of extra money on contributors, and the whole thing's going to cost more in total.

HYUFD said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CarlottaVance said:

Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:

https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/

Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.

I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.

https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/

And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.

What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.

More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.

The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?

Override. Impose. Threaten to close down the local institutions. That's what it does elsewhere. Why not here? Is there a Guernsey Tory and Unionist Party chorusing to close down the CI assemblies [using neutral term, not sure what the correct one is - Parlement?]

"Give us what we want or we will take it anyway!" ?

At this rate we'll have a poster on PB threatening to send the gunboats (or at least the ones that haven't beern flogged to Bahrain, I think DuraAce explained to us).l

Or perhaps HYFUD will want to nuke them from orbit? Just to be sure....

Guernsey does not have a leader threatening to hold another independence referendum just 6 years after a once in a generation vote, so a different scenario.

Guernsey is also not part of the UK either but a British crown dependency

isam said:

Mysticrose said:

SouthamObserver said:

A Tory pivot back to cuddly Cameroonism will be very good news for Nigel Farage. And, therefore, for Labour.

Cameron won an outright election victory against a far better opponent than Johnson had to face. Johnson was up against the most unelectable leader of a main party in the history of British politics. No debate. And a vile racist at that.

Just saying.

There is a habit, amongst people whose side lose to bad guys, of doing down the people the bad guy beat. In Boris’ case, Livingstone and Corbyn, and in Trump’s, Clinton. Maybe Cameron and EdM too

Does this apply when the supposed good guy wins? Starmer ONLY beat RLB, Biden ONLY beat Trump, and so on?

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CarlottaVance said:

Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:

https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/

Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.

I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.

https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/

And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.

What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.

More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.

The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?

Override. Impose. Threaten to close down the local institutions. That's what it does elsewhere. Why not here? Is there a Guernsey Tory and Unionist Party chorusing to close down the CI assemblies [using neutral term, not sure what the correct one is - Parlement?]

But they can't. The CI "report" to the queen - not the UK government.

HYUFD said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CarlottaVance said:

Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:

https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/

Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.

I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.

https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/

And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.

What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.

More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.

The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?

Override. Impose. Threaten to close down the local institutions. That's what it does elsewhere. Why not here? Is there a Guernsey Tory and Unionist Party chorusing to close down the CI assemblies [using neutral term, not sure what the correct one is - Parlement?]

"Give us what we want or we will take it anyway!" ?

At this rate we'll have a poster on PB threatening to send the gunboats (or at least the ones that haven't beern flogged to Bahrain, I think DuraAce explained to us).l

Or perhaps HYFUD will want to nuke them from orbit? Just to be sure....

Guernsey does not have a leader threatening to hold another independence referendum just 6 years after a once in a generation vote, so a different scenario.

Guernsey is also not part of the UK either or a British overseas territory but a British crown dependency

Fysics_Teacher said:

edmundintokyo said:

MrEd said:

SandyRentool said:

HYUFD said:

Adonis backs the Euro

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1327183020349075457?s=20

I agree. While my preference was Leave, if we had ended up remaining I would rather have the full-fat version with the Euro, Schengen, the works. Better than the half-baked membership we have limped along with for so long.

If we did that, then the other thing we would have to do - and should probably do - is reform the current social security / health system from a free at the point use system to one based on the insurance principle (and, no, I don't think the current sham NICs count as a true contributory system).

A contributory system always sounds nice but the problem is that either you do what it says on the tin and deny access to people who can't or won't contribute, in which case you're leaving people to die outside the hospital for lack of healthcare, or you don't, in which case you've created a load of administration to no purpose.

You can of course provide *better* services to people who have contributed, and only a bare minimum to the deadbeats, but public services generally aren't funded to have a lot of fat left to cut, so that implies that you're spending a load of extra money on contributors, and the whole thing's going to cost more in total.

How do the Germans do it? I assume they don't have people dying in the street outside their hospitals?

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm told by a very reliable source that Cummings will be back next year as head of the government backed/run UK DARPA.

First project he will have them work on a death ray, so he can wipe out all those who question his genius.

Fysics_Teacher said:

HYUFD said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CarlottaVance said:

Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:

https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/

Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.

I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.

https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/

And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.

What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.

More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.

The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?

Override. Impose. Threaten to close down the local institutions. That's what it does elsewhere. Why not here? Is there a Guernsey Tory and Unionist Party chorusing to close down the CI assemblies [using neutral term, not sure what the correct one is - Parlement?]

"Give us what we want or we will take it anyway!" ?

At this rate we'll have a poster on PB threatening to send the gunboats (or at least the ones that haven't beern flogged to Bahrain, I think DuraAce explained to us).l

Or perhaps HYFUD will want to nuke them from orbit? Just to be sure....

Guernsey does not have a leader threatening to hold another independence referendum just 6 years after a once in a generation vote, so a different scenario.

Guernsey is also not part of the UK either or a British overseas territory but a British crown dependency

Guernsey doesn't need an independence vote: it is independent!

MaxPB said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

MaxPB said:

Chris said:

MaxPB said:

CarlottaVance said:

Another The Crown trailer:

https://twitter.com/NetflixUK/status/1326922024158191620?s=20

Anderson seems better in this than the previous snippets.

I've been reliably informed that Anderson is going to win all of the awards, apparently her portrayal is incredible and the studio are putting her forwards for basically every award going.

Hmm. I haven't watched a minute of The Crown, but I should like to see Gillian Anderson as Thatcher.

Do any connoisseurs have a view about whether it's feasible to start watching at this point?

You probably can as the characters are largely based on real life so you can pick up most of the character development pretty easily if you know the story of the royals and post war political history (and if you post here then I expect you have a passing interest in the latter at least!).

It's an absolutely incredible series though and I can't recommend watching it from the start enough. Genuinely the best British TV series to be made in ages.

Agreed, the Crown got us through early lockdown. It's basically a very superior soap opera. Series 1 and 2 are the best so far anyway, Claire Foy is an incredible actress (as she was in Wolf Hall too), there's too much of Sophie from Peep Show in Olivia Colman's depiction of HMQ if you ask me. Although the Aberfan episode in series 3 was very moving. Can't wait for series 4.

Yes the chemistry between Foy and Smith is absolutely incredible. Agree about Coleman, she also suffers from doing the job just after Claire Foy who was better at it which is unfortunate for her. In isolation she does it well, in comparison to Foy she falls flat.

I also can't wait until Sunday for the next season, my mate to works for Sony Pictures has been hyping it up in our WhatsApp group for ages and he's usually pretty honest about their own shows.

JohnO said:

Important day for Starmer as Labour NEC elections to be announced imminently.

MrEd said:

edmundintokyo said:

MrEd said:

SandyRentool said:

HYUFD said:

Adonis backs the Euro

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1327183020349075457?s=20

I agree. While my preference was Leave, if we had ended up remaining I would rather have the full-fat version with the Euro, Schengen, the works. Better than the half-baked membership we have limped along with for so long.

If we did that, then the other thing we would have to do - and should probably do - is reform the current social security / health system from a free at the point use system to one based on the insurance principle (and, no, I don't think the current sham NICs count as a true contributory system).

A contributory system always sounds nice but the problem is that either you do what it says on the tin and deny access to people who can't or won't contribute, in which case you're leaving people to die outside the hospital for lack of healthcare, or you don't, in which case you've created a load of administration to no purpose.

You can of course provide *better* services to people who have contributed, and only a bare minimum to the deadbeats, but public services generally aren't funded to have a lot of fat left to cut, so that implies that you're spending a load of extra money on contributors, and the whole thing's going to cost more in total.

Well, other countries seem to do things quite well (France, Germany, most of Northern Europe) without people dying on the streets outside.

In a way, we have that worst case scenario with aspects of the current welfare system such as pensions (minimum level of NIC contributions etc).

Fysics_Teacher said:

HYUFD said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CarlottaVance said:

Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:

https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/

Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.

I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.

https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/

And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.

What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.

More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.

The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?

Override. Impose. Threaten to close down the local institutions. That's what it does elsewhere. Why not here? Is there a Guernsey Tory and Unionist Party chorusing to close down the CI assemblies [using neutral term, not sure what the correct one is - Parlement?]

"Give us what we want or we will take it anyway!" ?

At this rate we'll have a poster on PB threatening to send the gunboats (or at least the ones that haven't beern flogged to Bahrain, I think DuraAce explained to us).l

Or perhaps HYFUD will want to nuke them from orbit? Just to be sure....

Guernsey does not have a leader threatening to hold another independence referendum just 6 years after a once in a generation vote, so a different scenario.

Guernsey is also not part of the UK either or a British overseas territory but a British crown dependency

Guernsey doesn't need an independence vote: it is independent!

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CarlottaVance said:

Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:

https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/

Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.

I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.

https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/

And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.

What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.

More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.

The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?

Override. Impose. Threaten to close down the local institutions. That's what it does elsewhere. Why not here? Is there a Guernsey Tory and Unionist Party chorusing to close down the CI assemblies [using neutral term, not sure what the correct one is - Parlement?]

"Give us what we want or we will take it anyway!" ?

At this rate we'll have a poster on PB threatening to send the gunboats (or at least the ones that haven't beern flogged to Bahrain, I think DuraAce explained to us).l

Or perhaps HYFUD will want to nuke them from orbit? Just to be sure....

Guernsey does not have a leader threatening to hold another independence referendum just 6 years after a once in a generation vote, so a different scenario.

Guernsey is also not part of the UK either but a British crown dependency

So the UK is imposing its will on another country?

Chris said:

Chris said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Chris said:

MaxPB said:

CarlottaVance said:

Another The Crown trailer:

https://twitter.com/NetflixUK/status/1326922024158191620?s=20

Anderson seems better in this than the previous snippets.

I've been reliably informed that Anderson is going to win all of the awards, apparently her portrayal is incredible and the studio are putting her forwards for basically every award going.

Hmm. I haven't watched a minute of The Crown, but I should like to see Gillian Anderson as Thatcher.

Do any connoisseurs have a view about whether it's feasible to start watching at this point?

You can jump in at any point, but I'd recommend watching from the start, you'll miss Claire Foy's and Matt Smith's brilliant portrayals.

Plus the very first episode has the best scene IMHO, when Churchill arrives at the wedding of Princess Elizabeth whilst 'I vow to thee my country' is being sung.

Thanks to everyone for their advice.

I had been looking for more longish-term pandemic viewing, so will put this near the top of my list.

I was impressed by Claire Foy as Little Dorrit and Anne Boleyn.

I do have the second season of "His Dark Materials" on my list.

If nothing else I am curious to know how they will adapt some of the spectacular set pieces.

The Authority = Donald Trump?

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CarlottaVance said:

Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:

https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/

Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.

I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.

https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/

And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.

What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.

More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.

The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?

Override. Impose. Threaten to close down the local institutions. That's what it does elsewhere. Why not here? Is there a Guernsey Tory and Unionist Party chorusing to close down the CI assemblies [using neutral term, not sure what the correct one is - Parlement?]

"Give us what we want or we will take it anyway!" ?

At this rate we'll have a poster on PB threatening to send the gunboats (or at least the ones that haven't beern flogged to Bahrain, I think DuraAce explained to us).l

Or perhaps HYFUD will want to nuke them from orbit? Just to be sure....

Guernsey does not have a leader threatening to hold another independence referendum just 6 years after a once in a generation vote, so a different scenario.

Guernsey is also not part of the UK either but a British crown dependency

So the UK is imposing its will on another country?

A special committee to manage fisheries issues with the islands and to work out how international obligations will be managed will be provided, the government also acts on behalf of her majesty in policy making and she is Head of State of Guernsey.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good morning

I wake up this morning to hear Cummings is leaving

I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings

I hope a deal with the EU is now more likely with a fazed transition

I expect Boris is likely to remain in post through 2021 as he attempts to turn things round and especially move to a strong climate change agenda working with Joe Biden and others culminating in the climate conference next year in Glasgow

And of course Trump will be over in January which is really good news

New PB rule, if you're going to use French words, you have to make sure you use the appropriate l'accent circonflexe et al.

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

edmundintokyo said:

MrEd said:

SandyRentool said:

HYUFD said:

Adonis backs the Euro

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1327183020349075457?s=20

I agree. While my preference was Leave, if we had ended up remaining I would rather have the full-fat version with the Euro, Schengen, the works. Better than the half-baked membership we have limped along with for so long.

If we did that, then the other thing we would have to do - and should probably do - is reform the current social security / health system from a free at the point use system to one based on the insurance principle (and, no, I don't think the current sham NICs count as a true contributory system).

A contributory system always sounds nice but the problem is that either you do what it says on the tin and deny access to people who can't or won't contribute, in which case you're leaving people to die outside the hospital for lack of healthcare, or you don't, in which case you've created a load of administration to no purpose.

You can of course provide *better* services to people who have contributed, and only a bare minimum to the deadbeats, but public services generally aren't funded to have a lot of fat left to cut, so that implies that you're spending a load of extra money on contributors, and the whole thing's going to cost more in total.

How do the Germans do it? I assume they don't have people dying in the street outside their hospitals?

By spending lots of money. The share of your pay packet that goes on health insurance is listed on your payslip, and it's a substantial proportion for average earners. When I was self-employed in Germany, my health insurance contributions were eye-wateringly high, and far more than I'd have paid in taxes in the UK.

Carnyx said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

HYUFD said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CarlottaVance said:

Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:

https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/

Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.

I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.

https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/

And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.

What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.

More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.

The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?

Override. Impose. Threaten to close down the local institutions. That's what it does elsewhere. Why not here? Is there a Guernsey Tory and Unionist Party chorusing to close down the CI assemblies [using neutral term, not sure what the correct one is - Parlement?]

"Give us what we want or we will take it anyway!" ?

At this rate we'll have a poster on PB threatening to send the gunboats (or at least the ones that haven't beern flogged to Bahrain, I think DuraAce explained to us).l

Or perhaps HYFUD will want to nuke them from orbit? Just to be sure....

Guernsey does not have a leader threatening to hold another independence referendum just 6 years after a once in a generation vote, so a different scenario.

Guernsey is also not part of the UK either or a British overseas territory but a British crown dependency

Guernsey doesn't need an independence vote: it is independent!

Naah. Its bloody foreign innit. Even has Frog names for places. Bloody Europeans why don't they go back where they came from!

Its not just the Channel Islands that are fucked by this. Gibraltar will need airlifts Berlin-style if we don't end up continuing with continuity-EEA/CU. And did anyone read the article about British Anguilla? They are *fucked* https://mycountryeurope.com/politics/brexits-forgotten-border-anguilla/

Oh my fur and whiskers. I did not know that.

Not just the Union but the bloody Empire as well.

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1327203511331852288

RochdalePioneers said:

Carnyx said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

HYUFD said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CarlottaVance said:

Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:

https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/

Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.

I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.

https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/

And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.

What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.

More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.

The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?

Override. Impose. Threaten to close down the local institutions. That's what it does elsewhere. Why not here? Is there a Guernsey Tory and Unionist Party chorusing to close down the CI assemblies [using neutral term, not sure what the correct one is - Parlement?]

"Give us what we want or we will take it anyway!" ?

At this rate we'll have a poster on PB threatening to send the gunboats (or at least the ones that haven't beern flogged to Bahrain, I think DuraAce explained to us).l

Or perhaps HYFUD will want to nuke them from orbit? Just to be sure....

Guernsey does not have a leader threatening to hold another independence referendum just 6 years after a once in a generation vote, so a different scenario.

Guernsey is also not part of the UK either or a British overseas territory but a British crown dependency

Guernsey doesn't need an independence vote: it is independent!

Naah. Its bloody foreign innit. Even has Frog names for places. Bloody Europeans why don't they go back where they came from!

Its not just the Channel Islands that are fucked by this. Gibraltar will need airlifts Berlin-style if we don't end up continuing with continuity-EEA/CU. And did anyone read the article about British Anguilla? They are *fucked* https://mycountryeurope.com/politics/brexits-forgotten-border-anguilla/

Oh my fur and whiskers. I did not know that.

Not just the Union but the bloody Empire as well.

Why would the remaining vestiges of Empire where Her Majesty's subjects remain loyally British be of any interest to the Conservative and Unionist Party?

TrèsDifficile said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Good morning

I wake up this morning to hear Cummings is leaving

I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings

I hope a deal with the EU is now more likely with a fazed transition

I expect Boris is likely to remain in post through 2021 as he attempts to turn things round and especially move to a strong climate change agenda working with Joe Biden and others culminating in the climate conference next year in Glasgow

And of course Trump will be over in January which is really good news

New PB rule, if you're going to use French words, you have to make sure you use the appropriate l'accent circonflexe et al.

That sounds rather diacritical to me.

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

CarlottaVance said:

Carnyx said:

Beibheirli_C said:

CarlottaVance said:

Not just the devolved administration the UK govt is pissing off:

https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/11/13/constitutional-relations-hit-the-rocks-over-fisheries-bill/

Just another non-English part of the UK being chucked under the Brexit bus.

I am just waiting for the govt to give the Channel Islands fishing grounds to the French as a sweetner for less fishing in "home" waters.

https://guernseypress.com/news/voices/comment/2020/11/13/uk-government-presses-on-with-power-grab/

And this too. All sounds very, very familiar to any Scot.

What will become interesting is if Guernsey & Jersey refuse to pass the relevant legislation in their States of Deliberation - what does the UK do then? Since neither are part of the UK unclear how the Supreme Court could become involved.

More to the point, perhaps, what do G and J do? They don't even have a figleaf called the Sewell Convention, it would seem.

The ball remains in the UK court, until J&G pass the relevant legislation locally it does not apply in their territorial waters. What does the UK do?

Override. Impose. Threaten to close down the local institutions. That's what it does elsewhere. Why not here? Is there a Guernsey Tory and Unionist Party chorusing to close down the CI assemblies [using neutral term, not sure what the correct one is - Parlement?]

"Give us what we want or we will take it anyway!" ?

At this rate we'll have a poster on PB threatening to send the gunboats (or at least the ones that haven't beern flogged to Bahrain, I think DuraAce explained to us).l

Or perhaps HYFUD will want to nuke them from orbit? Just to be sure....

Guernsey does not have a leader threatening to hold another independence referendum just 6 years after a once in a generation vote, so a different scenario.

Guernsey is also not part of the UK either but a British crown dependency

So the UK is imposing its will on another country?

A special committee to manage fisheries issues with the islands and to work out how international obligations will be managed will be provided, the government also acts on behalf of her majesty in policy making and she is Head of State of Guernsey.

Will it?

Scotland. Wales. NI. Gib. Now Anguilla too. Not a good tyrack record.

None of them are England...

FrancisUrquhart said:

University offers could be based on real exam results

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-54908150

Something Gove and Cummings pushed for years ago....it is the single biggest thing that could be done to level the playing field.

Stark_Dawning said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/MrSteerpike/status/1327194047551852545

If this story takes off it could actually be the most damaging that Boris has ever faced. A key part of his attraction was always that he was a bit of a lad, a player, who shagged around, had a laugh and didn't give a stuff about the uptight conventions of a feminized society. If it transpires that he's under the thumb of his woman then his geezer appeal will be considerably diminished.

CarlottaVance said:

kinabalu said:

Northern_Al said:

I've commented many times on the macho, bullying culture around No. 10, and the absence of women in prominent positions - particularly relating to the Covid crisis. Well, the replacement of Cummings and Cain by Stratton and Symonds has turned that on its head, to the good I think. It leaves Priti Patel in an interesting position, because despite her gender I associate her more with the macho bullying culture. I'd put a small bet on her being next to go, especially if Philip Rutnam's bullying allegation against her is found to have substance.

Interesting times. For what it's worth, I suspect that Boris secretly regrets the whole Brexit project. With Covid on top, it's just too much for him. There will be a rubbish deal, lots of caving to the EU, and having dispensed with his right flank within No. 10 Boris will then have problems with his right flank in the Conservative Party, including with a significant rump of MPs. I can't see him emerging from this unscathed.

Yep. The single biggest thing that would improve the quality of government in this country and every other country is to have more women running things.

Dido of Carnage?

MaxPB said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

edmundintokyo said:

MrEd said:

SandyRentool said:

HYUFD said:

Adonis backs the Euro

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1327183020349075457?s=20

I agree. While my preference was Leave, if we had ended up remaining I would rather have the full-fat version with the Euro, Schengen, the works. Better than the half-baked membership we have limped along with for so long.

If we did that, then the other thing we would have to do - and should probably do - is reform the current social security / health system from a free at the point use system to one based on the insurance principle (and, no, I don't think the current sham NICs count as a true contributory system).

A contributory system always sounds nice but the problem is that either you do what it says on the tin and deny access to people who can't or won't contribute, in which case you're leaving people to die outside the hospital for lack of healthcare, or you don't, in which case you've created a load of administration to no purpose.

You can of course provide *better* services to people who have contributed, and only a bare minimum to the deadbeats, but public services generally aren't funded to have a lot of fat left to cut, so that implies that you're spending a load of extra money on contributors, and the whole thing's going to cost more in total.

How do the Germans do it? I assume they don't have people dying in the street outside their hospitals?

By spending lots of money. The share of your pay packet that goes on health insurance is listed on your payslip, and it's a substantial proportion for average earners. When I was self-employed in Germany, my health insurance contributions were eye-wateringly high, and far more than I'd have paid in taxes in the UK.

That's because in the UK the NHS is paid for out of general taxation and so the wealthy pay a disproportionate share. With a hypothecated tax/insurance model normal taxpayers end up paying more.

The way they do it in Switzerland is a sliding scale of government subsidies, the lower paid pay very little as they receive a high level of subsidy and that subsidy is reduced as income goes up. No reason why we couldn't have a system like that.

OldKingCole said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

University offers could be based on real exam results

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-54908150

Something Gove and Cummings pushed for years ago....it is the single biggest thing that could be done to level the playing field.

Just hope no-one mucks about with it for 2021 entry. Younger Grandson is wrestling with his options at the moment. Three of his choices are well away from home, which in my experience was a Good Idea.

IanB2 said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/MrSteerpike/status/1327194047551852545

If this story takes off it could actually be the most damaging that Boris has ever faced. A key part of his attraction was always that he was a bit of a lad, a player, who shagged around, had a laugh and didn't give a stuff about the uptight conventions of a feminized society. If it transpires that he's under the thumb of his woman then his geezer appeal will be considerably diminished.

Perhaps letting her run the country was the price he paid for his music interest?

FrancisUrquhart said:

Liverpool's mass testing programme reached 90,000 people in its first week, the city's mayor has told BBC Breakfast. That equates to 18% of the population of just under half a million being tested since last Friday, when Liverpool began offering tests to everyone regardless of whether they had symptoms.

That seems a very low amount....too low to really work.

Nigelb said:

bigjohnowls said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1327194237570605056?s=20

Didnt realize WW1 was an illegal war based on a complete falsehood.

I don't think there was anything particularly lawful about the Kaiser's invasion of Belgium...

Fysics_Teacher said:

edmundintokyo said:

MrEd said:

SandyRentool said:

HYUFD said:

Adonis backs the Euro

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1327183020349075457?s=20

I agree. While my preference was Leave, if we had ended up remaining I would rather have the full-fat version with the Euro, Schengen, the works. Better than the half-baked membership we have limped along with for so long.

If we did that, then the other thing we would have to do - and should probably do - is reform the current social security / health system from a free at the point use system to one based on the insurance principle (and, no, I don't think the current sham NICs count as a true contributory system).

A contributory system always sounds nice but the problem is that either you do what it says on the tin and deny access to people who can't or won't contribute, in which case you're leaving people to die outside the hospital for lack of healthcare, or you don't, in which case you've created a load of administration to no purpose.

You can of course provide *better* services to people who have contributed, and only a bare minimum to the deadbeats, but public services generally aren't funded to have a lot of fat left to cut, so that implies that you're spending a load of extra money on contributors, and the whole thing's going to cost more in total.

How do the Germans do it? I assume they don't have people dying in the street outside their hospitals?

CarlottaVance said:

"he's" is doing a lot of work there.

twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1327213740140453889?s=20

How decisive is it to offer someone a job, then rescind the offer?

SandyRentool said:

Adam Bolton just segued from Cumstain to the Yorkshire Ripper. Seamlessly.

DavidL said:

Unlike many on here I have a lot of time for Cummings. He is an iconoclast, and lordy do we need some of them. The smug, self-satisfied blob that runs our institutions, government and society seriously need a good kicking. And then some more kicking.

But a government cannot run as a permanent revolution. Eventually a modus operandi needs to be reached with the establishment and some compromises need to be made. I think Cummings saw this himself in his January blog. And he was right. As usual.

gealbhan said:

Dura_Ace said:

Whatever else you can say about Johnson he does, to use the phrase beloved of the SWP, go "where the politics is."

He can see that the nationalist-populist spasm has run its course and, probably with prompting from the Yoko Ono of Brexit, is effortlessly pivoting back to being a centrist who can convincingly fake enthusiasm for green issues.

The fucking off of Cummo and Caino is clear indication that we're not going to get the 2b2t Brexit which they so clearly cherished. Watch the pb tories also tack to the new moderate course without shame or self-examination.

I totally agree, how poor of the political journalism in this country to say this weeks heat has been personality driven, when it’s clearly been a brexit bust up.

Sandpit said:

DavidL said:

Unlike many on here I have a lot of time for Cummings. He is an iconoclast, and lordy do we need some of them. The smug, self-satisfied blob that runs our institutions, government and society seriously need a good kicking. And then some more kicking.

But a government cannot run as a permanent revolution. Eventually a modus operandi needs to be reached with the establishment and some compromises need to be made. I think Cummings saw this himself in his January blog. And he was right. As usual.

You’re not the only one, even if it’s an unpopular opinion here and elsewhere - where people benefit from the status quo.

MrEd said:

kinabalu said:

Northern_Al said:

I've commented many times on the macho, bullying culture around No. 10, and the absence of women in prominent positions - particularly relating to the Covid crisis. Well, the replacement of Cummings and Cain by Stratton and Symonds has turned that on its head, to the good I think. It leaves Priti Patel in an interesting position, because despite her gender I associate her more with the macho bullying culture. I'd put a small bet on her being next to go, especially if Philip Rutnam's bullying allegation against her is found to have substance.

Interesting times. For what it's worth, I suspect that Boris secretly regrets the whole Brexit project. With Covid on top, it's just too much for him. There will be a rubbish deal, lots of caving to the EU, and having dispensed with his right flank within No. 10 Boris will then have problems with his right flank in the Conservative Party, including with a significant rump of MPs. I can't see him emerging from this unscathed.

Yep. The single biggest thing that would improve the quality of government in this country and every other country is to have more women running things.

Really? Bizarrely enough, women come in all different shapes and guises, with a range of different attitudes and opinions. Priti Patel and Caroline Lucas may be both women but they have fundamental different approaches (although Caroline has a bit of an authoritarian streak in her as well, I would imagine).

For all his faults, Dominic Cummings was right that many of the existing systems are failing and a large part of that is due to the narrow mindset of the civil service establishment that runs the UK. I don't think having two posh women in the form of Carrie Symonds and Allegra Stratton is really progress - quite the opposite.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

MaxPB said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

edmundintokyo said:

MrEd said:

SandyRentool said:

HYUFD said:

Adonis backs the Euro

https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1327183020349075457?s=20

I agree. While my preference was Leave, if we had ended up remaining I would rather have the full-fat version with the Euro, Schengen, the works. Better than the half-baked membership we have limped along with for so long.

If we did that, then the other thing we would have to do - and should probably do - is reform the current social security / health system from a free at the point use system to one based on the insurance principle (and, no, I don't think the current sham NICs count as a true contributory system).

A contributory system always sounds nice but the problem is that either you do what it says on the tin and deny access to people who can't or won't contribute, in which case you're leaving people to die outside the hospital for lack of healthcare, or you don't, in which case you've created a load of administration to no purpose.

You can of course provide *better* services to people who have contributed, and only a bare minimum to the deadbeats, but public services generally aren't funded to have a lot of fat left to cut, so that implies that you're spending a load of extra money on contributors, and the whole thing's going to cost more in total.

How do the Germans do it? I assume they don't have people dying in the street outside their hospitals?

By spending lots of money. The share of your pay packet that goes on health insurance is listed on your payslip, and it's a substantial proportion for average earners. When I was self-employed in Germany, my health insurance contributions were eye-wateringly high, and far more than I'd have paid in taxes in the UK.

That's because in the UK the NHS is paid for out of general taxation and so the wealthy pay a disproportionate share. With a hypothecated tax/insurance model normal taxpayers end up paying more.

The way they do it in Switzerland is a sliding scale of government subsidies, the lower paid pay very little as they receive a high level of subsidy and that subsidy is reduced as income goes up. No reason why we couldn't have a system like that.

The poor won't pay much under any system because they can't afford to. It's the middle class who will pay more, because right now they are getting subsidised by the wealthy owing to the combination of a skewed income distribution, progressive income taxation and funding the NHS out of general taxation. Shifting that tax burden from the wealthy to the middle class is the goal here.