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Cummings – the end of the line for his time at Number 10? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    I was interested to note in the Guardian article that Ms Symonds was close to Lord Goldsmith.

    Does anyone know if Boris is still taking violin lessons?

    It's certainly gone very quiet on the classical music front. More than that, it isn't legally safe to speculate.
    I suspect that his violin is now firewood.

    On Monday Boris Johnson wanted Lee Cain to be his chief of staff. He was overruled. Now, on Friday, Johnson’s weakness is there for all to see. Because he is bone idle, he is not in control.

    BoZo is a cork in a storm, with no control over events, and with no interest in policy or planning, merely agreeing with the last person that he spoke to. That is why his unelected advisors matter, never before have we had such an intellectual and moral vacuum at the heart of government.
    I rather suspect that Johnson will go down in history as the textbook lesson in why becoming PM without any guiding purpose for what you want to achieve in the job is usually a disaster. Why is he there? He doesn't even really believe in Brexit never mind anything else.

    I'm sure Steve Richards will be able to fill in the details.
  • Good morning

    I wake up this morning to hear Cummings is leaving

    I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings

    I hope a deal with the EU is now more likely with a fazed transition

    I expect Boris is likely to remain in post through 2021 as he attempts to turn things round and especially move to a strong climate change agenda working with Joe Biden and others culminating in the climate conference next year in Glasgow

    And of course Trump will be over in January which is really good news

    Suddenly 2020 seems to be turning itself around. Next step: Oxford declare a 95% effective vaccine.
    Fingers crossed
  • As I was saying: I won't believe it until I see Cummings physically out of the building...


    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1327162818899095555
  • Good morning

    I wake up this morning to hear Cummings is leaving

    I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings

    I hope a deal with the EU is now more likely with a fazed transition

    I expect Boris is likely to remain in post through 2021 as he attempts to turn things round and especially move to a strong climate change agenda working with Joe Biden and others culminating in the climate conference next year in Glasgow

    And of course Trump will be over in January which is really good news

    New PB rule, if you're going to use French words, you have to make sure you use the appropriate l'accent circonflexe et al.
    That is beyond my ability to be honest
  • That is a bit harsh on golfers surely?

    [Thinks.... remembers Dad teaching me to swing a club....]

    On second thoughts, maybe not.

    :D:D
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483
    Andy_JS said:

    Nobody voted for Carrie Symonds. It's disappointing to read reports saying that she has a big political influence in number 10.

    Clementine Churchill
    Eleonor Roosevelt
    Nancy Reagan

    History is littered with them
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,551
    There is a particular type of person who crops up quite a bit in every field; that is the dynamic big project person who sees the big, shiny, debt incurring and expensive bit through to the end right up to the point when operation and implementation is just about to start. They then leave for the next project for which someone else is providing the cash and repeat. If Cummings leaves at Christmas and real post transition Brexit starts on 1st January does that tell us something?
  • I'm told by a very reliable source that Cummings will be back next year as head of the government backed/run UK DARPA.

    Former evening newspaper editors do not count as reliable sources.

    Nonetheless, the idea of UK DARPA or its equivalent is an attractive one. In practice, however, if it just ends up taking money from the existing research agencies, it will probably weaken our research base.
    Whilst I'm sure that Dom would like that train set to play with to be in his Christmas stocking, surely the fact that he's a posh school / Oxford Humanities blagger ought to disqualify him?

    Even if he weren't obviously damaged goods...
    As I posted earlier, being made head of his little baby will be the price paid to get rid of him. I can see no earthily reason why he is qualified to run this organization but otherwise it is a good idea and worth investigating.

    I will be utterly stunned if he doesn't end up with this role after Downing Street to be honest.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    Andy_JS said:

    Nobody voted for Carrie Symonds. It's disappointing to read reports saying that she has a big political influence in number 10.

    Nobody voted for Dom Cummings either, but we are where we are.
    People will always have advisers and spouses (or spouses to be in this case) so I tend to find the emphasis on the unelected to be somewhat strange in implication. I think everyone agrees they should not have too much power, but the way people talk no unelected person should be involved at all. See otherwise very sensible people genuinely acting as though the PM having a press secretary is a derogation of the PMs responsibilities.

    I think it's hard to know precisely when a line is crossed. I dont know why, for instance, being the First Lady (and eventually First Gentleman) need mean anything official at all, or place any expectations on that person. And while, being cold about this, there are things a political leader should not share even with their spouse, it is human nature and not unreasonable that they would discuss and be guided by their life partner in many ways, so we shouldn't get too worked up.

    With advisers, perhaps the line being crossed is when they seek to make themselves the story and are treated as a decision maker. At that point you are in the wrong job.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Unlike many on here I have a lot of time for Cummings. He is an iconoclast, and lordy do we need some of them. The smug, self-satisfied blob that runs our institutions, government and society seriously need a good kicking. And then some more kicking.

    But a government cannot run as a permanent revolution. Eventually a modus operandi needs to be reached with the establishment and some compromises need to be made. I think Cummings saw this himself in his January blog. And he was right. As usual.

    I can see your point in theory as institutions do need a shake up, but something useful needs to come from that shake up. As your permanent revolution line suggests there are limits.
    And blundering in and cocking things about in unearned confidence may in fact shake things up in a way to prevent actually useful shakeups in future.

    If some arrogant, rude svengali messes everyone about to the point those following them are wary of even trying to sort things out it has been a net loss, even if the alternative was a sclerotic blob.

    It's the 'upsets the right people' level analysis and its crap.
    A slightly more nuanced response than most this morning. Thanks.
    And there was me thinking itd been a bit blunt.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,592
    Glad to see Cummings go. Hopefully Johnson will be replaced by Rishi Sunak within the next 12 months.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Add it to the unpaid council tax for money Cummings owes British taxpayers.
    The owners of an empty property may owe some Council Tax -- but my understanding is that the owners of the farm are Dominic Cummings' parents.
  • Some organisations are preparing. I've just been informed (very apologetically) that my German credit card will be cancelled on 31 December because there is not yet any legal framework in place for the bank in question to be able to continue providing it to me.

    Yes they are in banking. I had a devil of a time finding a business bank account who would accept international payments - the uncertainty around Brexit has really spooked them. But anything to do with logistics? Hard to prepare when you don't know what to prepare for...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    twitter.com/edwest/status/1327169318019330048

    What the hell is going on here!?
    Christmas Jim'll Fix It special from Broadmoor. Frankie Fraser got to fly with the Red Arrows.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    DeClare said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nobody voted for Carrie Symonds. It's disappointing to read reports saying that she has a big political influence in number 10.

    Clementine Churchill
    Eleonor Roosevelt
    Nancy Reagan

    History is littered with them
    Indeed. I seem to recall Cherie Blair getting criticised for saying "we in the government" at some event or something.
  • Same puppet different puppet master(s)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,136
    Cummings' departure is further evidence Boris is shifting towards a trade deal with the EU.

    However he will have to overcome resistance from some hardliners like Redwood in the process

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1327142958945218560?s=20

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1326927929822081024?s=20
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    Cummings' departure is further evidence Boris is shifting towards a trade deal with the EU.

    However he will have to overcome resistance from some hardliners like Redwood in the process

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1327142958945218560?s=20

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1326927929822081024?s=20

    wE hOlD aLL tHe cARdS
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    HYUFD said:

    Cummings' departure is further evidence Boris is shifting towards a trade deal with the EU.

    However he will have to overcome resistance from some hardliners like Redwood in the process

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1327142958945218560?s=20

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1326927929822081024?s=20

    Some people see any deal as being on the EUs terms, from both sides if the divide. The ones who basically go 'the EU wants a deal so it is bad' are pretty frustrating. Even if its weighted more to them than us - negotiations go like that sometimes - it doesn't automatically mean it's bad.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,136
    edited November 2020

    A Tory pivot back to cuddly Cameroonism will be very good news for Nigel Farage. And, therefore, for Labour.

    Except Farage got his highest ever GE voteshare in 2015, 12%, yet Cameron still got a majority and beat Ed Miliband's Labour.

    Starmer is also losing some voters to the Greens too don't forget
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    twitter.com/edwest/status/1327169318019330048

    What the hell is going on here!?
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jimmy-savile-frank-bruno-reveals-1430910
    Given the pummeling that Bruno got from Mike Tyson one would have thought that shaking hands with Sutcliffe would be one of his lesser worries.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,592
    edited November 2020
    HYUFD said:
    Sunak's popularity with Labour voters isn't particularly important, it's his popularity with Tory voters that matters.
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483
    Andy_JS said:

    Glad to see Cummings go. Hopefully Johnson will be replaced by Rishi Sunak within the next 12 months.

    He might be gone by late Summer after a shabby deal with the EU and Covid out of the way but often the successor is not one of the more obvious candidates.

    Whoever it is would have nearly three years to sort out the economy and that will have to be their overwhelming priority.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,804
    O/T

    Last week I predicted US cases would top 150K sometime this week (again not a difficult prediction). Yesterday was 162K. Probably 200K by at least one day late next week.

    Worldometer prediction for deaths is just under 440K by the end of February.

    And the US has to wait until 20/1/21 for a president to do anything about it.

    Where is @contrarian now cherry picking a weekend number for US deaths now?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,463

    Good morning

    I wake up this morning to hear Cummings is leaving

    I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings

    I hope a deal with the EU is now more likely with a fazed transition

    I expect Boris is likely to remain in post through 2021 as he attempts to turn things round and especially move to a strong climate change agenda working with Joe Biden and others culminating in the climate conference next year in Glasgow

    And of course Trump will be over in January which is really good news

    With respect, Mr G, a 'fazed' transition is surely what we're worried about; what we need is a 'phased' transition .

    Although, of course, what we really need is no transition at all!
    Dear me.

    Thank you so much for correcting me

    All meant kindly, but I'm not good at writing humour!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    My lay of Rishi for next leader is looking very bad at the moment.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,429
    edited November 2020
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cummings' departure is further evidence Boris is shifting towards a trade deal with the EU.

    However he will have to overcome resistance from some hardliners like Redwood in the process

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1327142958945218560?s=20

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1326927929822081024?s=20

    Some people see any deal as being on the EUs terms, from both sides if the divide. The ones who basically go 'the EU wants a deal so it is bad' are pretty frustrating. Even if its weighted more to them than us - negotiations go like that sometimes - it doesn't automatically mean it's bad.
    It's hard to see how there can be a deal now, at least not of the kind that allows the relatively unimpeded flow of goods. The government has painted itself into corner, and it is not in the EU's interests to compromise sufficiently to allow an escape. January is going to bring utter chaos.
  • kjh said:

    O/T

    Last week I predicted US cases would top 150K sometime this week (again not a difficult prediction). Yesterday was 162K. Probably 200K by at least one day late next week.

    Worldometer prediction for deaths is just under 440K by the end of February.

    And the US has to wait until 20/1/21 for a president to do anything about it.

    Where is @contrarian now cherry picking a weekend number for US deaths now?

    He's still trying to work out why North Carolina isn't worth 80 electoral college votes.
  • HYUFD said:

    Cummings' departure is further evidence Boris is shifting towards a trade deal with the EU.

    However he will have to overcome resistance from some hardliners like Redwood in the process

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1327142958945218560?s=20

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1326927929822081024?s=20

    wE hOlD aLL tHe cARdS
    If only the Prime Minister hadn't unpersoned all the Conservative MPs who thought No Deal was a really bad idea.

    Dom might be going, but his legacy will live on for a long time.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    It's weird, it's like all the bullshit is finally winding down, yet somehow Brexit is still there.

    There does seem to be various speculation of the Carrie group supporting extending the transition. That would be very good and sensible if true, and I'm sure Sunak would welcome it too, considering the still very dicey situation we're in socially, economically and health-wise.
    Don’t be silly

    The transition is done

    We move into a 12 month “gradual implementation” phase at this point
    That’s an irregular verb, isn’t it? They Brexit in name only, you have a transition period, we are in an implementation phase.
    Charles is only following the govt's failed attempts last time to rebrand the transition period as an implementation period.

    Huge success back then....
    Did they? I didn’t notice
    It was a politics thing, Charles, not hugely important.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,463

    Good morning

    I wake up this morning to hear Cummings is leaving

    I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings

    I hope a deal with the EU is now more likely with a fazed transition

    I expect Boris is likely to remain in post through 2021 as he attempts to turn things round and especially move to a strong climate change agenda working with Joe Biden and others culminating in the climate conference next year in Glasgow

    And of course Trump will be over in January which is really good news

    New PB rule, if you're going to use French words, you have to make sure you use the appropriate l'accent circonflexe et al.
    That is beyond my ability to be honest
    Might I suggest that you do what I do; cheat. That is I look up what I want to to write in French on Google or Google translate, then cut and paste.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited November 2020

    A Tory pivot back to cuddly Cameroonism will be very good news for Nigel Farage. And, therefore, for Labour.

    Cameron won an outright election victory against a far better opponent than Johnson had to face. Johnson was up against the most unelectable leader of a main party in the history of British politics. No debate. And a vile racist at that.

    Just saying.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,671
    edited November 2020
    HYUFD said:

    twitter.com/ranil/status/1326896679036006401?s=20

    LinkedIn?

    Does anyone use that these days?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,136
    edited November 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:
    Sunak's popularity with Labour voters isn't particularly important, it's his popularity with Tory voters that matters.
    Yes 2019 Tory voters and LD voters in 2019 (many of whom have now defected to Starmer Labour) are the key demographic Sunak needs to appeal to (the latter to offset any hardline Leavers who will defect back to Farage after a trade deal with the EU), he can afford to be hated by those who voted for Corbyn last year
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Alistair said:

    My lay of Rishi for next leader is looking very bad at the moment.

    I think it`s over 60 years since a Conservative chancellor went on to lead the party. Is that right? If so, history is on your side.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Stocky said:

    twitter.com/edwest/status/1327169318019330048

    What the hell is going on here!?
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jimmy-savile-frank-bruno-reveals-1430910
    Given the pummeling that Bruno got from Mike Tyson one would have thought that shaking hands with Sutcliffe would be one of his lesser worries.
    One year, when I was doing the London Marathon, up ahead of me I saw this mountain that seemed to be moving albeit moving very slowly. It was casting a shadow on all around it and I couldn't work out what it was. When I got level, I saw that it was Frank!

    I met him once at a reception and he was super nice, hugely modest, very unaasuming.

  • HYUFD said:

    Cummings' departure is further evidence Boris is shifting towards a trade deal with the EU.

    However he will have to overcome resistance from some hardliners like Redwood in the process

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1327142958945218560?s=20

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1326927929822081024?s=20

    wE hOlD aLL tHe cARdS
    Yes we do. That is the whole point of independence.

    You repeating it sarcastically does not change that basic fact, nor does juvenile caps alternation.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,463
    HYUFD said:

    A Tory pivot back to cuddly Cameroonism will be very good news for Nigel Farage. And, therefore, for Labour.

    Except Farage got his highest ever GE voteshare in 2015, 12%, yet Cameron still got a majority and beat Ed Miliband's Labour.

    Starmer is also losing some voters to the Greens too don't forget
    Cameron lost seats to Milliband. He won enough from his erstwhile allies the LibDems to govern alone.
  • Good morning

    I wake up this morning to hear Cummings is leaving

    I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings

    I hope a deal with the EU is now more likely with a fazed transition

    I expect Boris is likely to remain in post through 2021 as he attempts to turn things round and especially move to a strong climate change agenda working with Joe Biden and others culminating in the climate conference next year in Glasgow

    And of course Trump will be over in January which is really good news

    With respect, Mr G, a 'fazed' transition is surely what we're worried about; what we need is a 'phased' transition .

    Although, of course, what we really need is no transition at all!
    Dear me.

    Thank you so much for correcting me

    All meant kindly, but I'm not good at writing humour!
    I know and I appreciate it
  • HYUFD said:

    twitter.com/ranil/status/1326896679036006401?s=20

    LinkedIn?

    Does anyone us that these days?
    I deleted my LinkedIn profile years ago. It was quite plain that the main users where recruiters and all I was doing was providing my information to them in the form of a giant and highly detailed CV.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    I was interested to note in the Guardian article that Ms Symonds was close to Lord Goldsmith.

    Does anyone know if Boris is still taking violin lessons?

    It's certainly gone very quiet on the classical music front. More than that, it isn't legally safe to speculate.
    I suspect that his violin is now firewood.

    On Monday Boris Johnson wanted Lee Cain to be his chief of staff. He was overruled. Now, on Friday, Johnson’s weakness is there for all to see. Because he is bone idle, he is not in control.

    BoZo is a cork in a storm, with no control over events, and with no interest in policy or planning, merely agreeing with the last person that he spoke to. That is why his unelected advisors matter, never before have we had such an intellectual and moral vacuum at the heart of government.
    Caused by the intellectual and moral vacuum in his head? ;) How did we wind up with this clown?
    The two often go together. The amoral often believe that their lack of empathy is a sign of intellectual superiority. The reality it shows that they have no real understanding of what is happening around them. Moral blindness leads to intellectual blindness.
    I find this instinctively very compelling. I wonder whether these have been studies done correlation sociopathy with the Dunning–Kruger effect.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,459

    Andy_JS said:

    Nobody voted for Carrie Symonds. It's disappointing to read reports saying that she has a big political influence in number 10.

    Nobody voted for Dom Cummings either, but we are where we are.
    I don't recall the election of Alistair Campbell either... Plus ca change.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    DeClare said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Glad to see Cummings go. Hopefully Johnson will be replaced by Rishi Sunak within the next 12 months.

    He might be gone by late Summer after a shabby deal with the EU and Covid out of the way but often the successor is not one of the more obvious candidates.

    Whoever it is would have nearly three years to sort out the economy and that will have to be their overwhelming priority.
    There is no way the Shapeshifting Creep is going to leave voluntarily and the tories aren't going to bin him three years out from a GE.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited November 2020
    DavidL said:

    Unlike many on here I have a lot of time for Cummings. He is an iconoclast, and lordy do we need some of them. The smug, self-satisfied blob that runs our institutions, government and society seriously need a good kicking. And then some more kicking.

    But a government cannot run as a permanent revolution. Eventually a modus operandi needs to be reached with the establishment and some compromises need to be made. I think Cummings saw this himself in his January blog. And he was right. As usual.

    Very similar to the eulogy offered to Donald Trump by Cameron's ex Svengali Steve Hilton. What is it about ad men and lawyers that can turn the most gentle hoody huggers into raging right wing hoodlums?
  • Good morning

    I wake up this morning to hear Cummings is leaving

    I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings

    I hope a deal with the EU is now more likely with a fazed transition

    I expect Boris is likely to remain in post through 2021 as he attempts to turn things round and especially move to a strong climate change agenda working with Joe Biden and others culminating in the climate conference next year in Glasgow

    And of course Trump will be over in January which is really good news

    New PB rule, if you're going to use French words, you have to make sure you use the appropriate l'accent circonflexe et al.
    That is beyond my ability to be honest
    Might I suggest that you do what I do; cheat. That is I look up what I want to to write in French on Google or Google translate, then cut and paste.
    That is an excellent tip, thank you
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    HYUFD said:

    twitter.com/ranil/status/1326896679036006401?s=20

    LinkedIn?

    Does anyone us that these days?
    us -> use?

    I don't like it myself and cancelled my account, but it does seem to be a useful way of getting contact details sometimes.
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483
    Stocky said:

    Alistair said:

    My lay of Rishi for next leader is looking very bad at the moment.

    I think it`s over 60 years since a Conservative chancellor went on to lead the party. Is that right? If so, history is on your side.
    No 30 years - John Major 1990
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    HYUFD said:

    A Tory pivot back to cuddly Cameroonism will be very good news for Nigel Farage. And, therefore, for Labour.

    Except Farage got his highest ever GE voteshare in 2015, 12%, yet Cameron still got a majority and beat Ed Miliband's Labour.

    Starmer is also losing some voters to the Greens too don't forget
    When you extrapolate from polls, you always seem to ignore MoE, unless it enhances your own position.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited November 2020
    kjh said:

    O/T

    Last week I predicted US cases would top 150K sometime this week (again not a difficult prediction). Yesterday was 162K. Probably 200K by at least one day late next week.

    Worldometer prediction for deaths is just under 440K by the end of February.

    And the US has to wait until 20/1/21 for a president to do anything about it.

    Where is @contrarian now cherry picking a weekend number for US deaths now?

    Goodness knows where he/she is but all he has said from the beginning is not that the epidemic is not bad, but that the response to it was economically disproportionate, and the powers the government arrogated to itself likewise extreme.

    It was and is an extremely important view to hold and hear because otherwise these things proceed unchecked. Especially with a supine I'm playing the long game - oh btw in the long run you do know what happens don't you - LotO.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713
    Stocky said:

    Alistair said:

    My lay of Rishi for next leader is looking very bad at the moment.

    I think it`s over 60 years since a Conservative chancellor went on to lead the party. Is that right? If so, history is on your side.
    John Major was CoE when he became leader wasn't he?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    On the r
    Stocky said:

    Alistair said:

    My lay of Rishi for next leader is looking very bad at the moment.

    I think it`s over 60 years since a Conservative chancellor went on to lead the party. Is that right? If so, history is on your side.
    John Major.
  • Stocky said:

    Alistair said:

    My lay of Rishi for next leader is looking very bad at the moment.

    I think it`s over 60 years since a Conservative chancellor went on to lead the party. Is that right? If so, history is on your side.
    Major was chancellor, though I think he was foreign secretary by the time he became PM.
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483

    Stocky said:

    Alistair said:

    My lay of Rishi for next leader is looking very bad at the moment.

    I think it`s over 60 years since a Conservative chancellor went on to lead the party. Is that right? If so, history is on your side.
    Major was chancellor, though I think he was foreign secretary by the time he became PM.
    No he was Foreign Secretary, then Chancellor, then PM.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,136
    edited November 2020

    HYUFD said:

    A Tory pivot back to cuddly Cameroonism will be very good news for Nigel Farage. And, therefore, for Labour.

    Except Farage got his highest ever GE voteshare in 2015, 12%, yet Cameron still got a majority and beat Ed Miliband's Labour.

    Starmer is also losing some voters to the Greens too don't forget
    Cameron lost seats to Milliband. He won enough from his erstwhile allies the LibDems to govern alone.
    Sunak I think would lose some seats in the Red Wall back to Labour but I think he could somewhat compensate by winning some seats like Bath, St Albans, Oxford West and Abingdon, Richmond Park and Twickenham May or Boris lost to the LDs and seats Cameron won like Enfield Southgate, Putney, Battersea, Warwick and Leamington, Canterbury, Croydon Central and Reading East which are now Labour. Election 2024 Sunak v Starmer would be rather like Major v Kinnock 1992 in my view.

    Sunak appeals more to middle class voters than Boris does, less to the white working class
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    HYUFD said:
    Tory 2024 landslide looking less likely on that news.

    Probably, something that is on Sunak's to do list at some point in the future.
  • Stocky said:

    Alistair said:

    My lay of Rishi for next leader is looking very bad at the moment.

    I think it`s over 60 years since a Conservative chancellor went on to lead the party. Is that right? If so, history is on your side.
    Major was chancellor, though I think he was foreign secretary by the time he became PM.
    Other way around, he was Foreign Secretary for three months in 1989, then became Chancellor in late 1989 then PM in November 1990 when Mrs Thatcher retired.
  • kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cummings' departure is further evidence Boris is shifting towards a trade deal with the EU.

    However he will have to overcome resistance from some hardliners like Redwood in the process

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1327142958945218560?s=20

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1326927929822081024?s=20

    Some people see any deal as being on the EUs terms, from both sides if the divide. The ones who basically go 'the EU wants a deal so it is bad' are pretty frustrating. Even if its weighted more to them than us - negotiations go like that sometimes - it doesn't automatically mean it's bad.
    It's hard to see how there can be a deal now, at least not of the kind that allows the relatively unimpeded flow of goods. The government has painted itself into corner, and it is not in the EU's interests to compromise sufficiently to allow an escape. January is going to bring utter chaos.
    The only thing we can do is a deal which keeps things as they are. The EU grant us leave to go and negotiate our own bespoke deals and set our own standards at some future point. We cheer! And then we make the sovereign decision to continue along as we are now with unimpeded goods flowing freely.

    The compromise from them is that the UK becomes an associate of the EEA. Not a member you understand. We are going to have UK rules and standards thankyou very much. Its just that our standards happen to be their standards which is rather convenient if you think about it. And to maintain the smooth running we will pay money into a new UKEU trade agreement which absolutely isn't the same as the EU demanding money with menaces as they were before.

    We can either agree this up front. Or agree it a few days into the new year after the UK's CDS system fails, they try to revert to CHIEF which can't cope anyway hence the need to replace it, and then we call Brussels and say "as we haven't actually changed any standards yet can we go back to status quo ante?"
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    DavidL said:

    In other news I wasn’t allowed to say anything until today, but it's now okay for me to share that I have volunteered for the Covid-19 vaccine from Pfizer.
    The vaccine is the one that has been developed in Russia.
    It is in 6 different stages and I received my first dose this morning 06:20 am, and I wanted to let you all know that it is safe snd I’m ok, with иo side effects whatsoeveя, and that I feelshκι я чувю себя немного стрно и я думю, что вытл осные уши. чувству себя немго страо.
    Comrades.

    LOL!

    Well done you.

    I put my name down for the Vitamin D trial but heard absolutely nothing since.
  • Roy_G_Biv said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    I was interested to note in the Guardian article that Ms Symonds was close to Lord Goldsmith.

    Does anyone know if Boris is still taking violin lessons?

    It's certainly gone very quiet on the classical music front. More than that, it isn't legally safe to speculate.
    I suspect that his violin is now firewood.

    On Monday Boris Johnson wanted Lee Cain to be his chief of staff. He was overruled. Now, on Friday, Johnson’s weakness is there for all to see. Because he is bone idle, he is not in control.

    BoZo is a cork in a storm, with no control over events, and with no interest in policy or planning, merely agreeing with the last person that he spoke to. That is why his unelected advisors matter, never before have we had such an intellectual and moral vacuum at the heart of government.
    Caused by the intellectual and moral vacuum in his head? ;) How did we wind up with this clown?
    The two often go together. The amoral often believe that their lack of empathy is a sign of intellectual superiority. The reality it shows that they have no real understanding of what is happening around them. Moral blindness leads to intellectual blindness.
    I find this instinctively very compelling. I wonder whether these have been studies done correlation sociopathy with the Dunning–Kruger effect.
    I'm not sure everyone understands the Dunning Kruger effect as well as they think they do. I know I don't.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,692

    HYUFD said:

    twitter.com/ranil/status/1326896679036006401?s=20

    LinkedIn?

    Does anyone us that these days?
    I deleted my LinkedIn profile years ago. It was quite plain that the main users where recruiters and all I was doing was providing my information to them in the form of a giant and highly detailed CV.
    The point they gave my password out to hackers was the final straw for me.

    (On the plus side, it did make adopt unique passwords for each logon :open_mouth: )
  • HYUFD said:
    We have always been an important trading partner. It is a total strawman and frankly a lie to pretend we haven't for the last thirty years.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Stocky said:

    Alistair said:

    My lay of Rishi for next leader is looking very bad at the moment.

    I think it`s over 60 years since a Conservative chancellor went on to lead the party. Is that right? If so, history is on your side.
    Major was chancellor, though I think he was foreign secretary by the time he became PM.
    Other way around, he was Foreign Secretary for three months in 1989, then became Chancellor in late 1989 then PM in November 1990 when Mrs Thatcher retired.
    Hmmm. Retired?
  • HYUFD said:
    And which super popular and highly respected Conservative leader is going to steer that particular ship of firebombs through the Commons?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited November 2020

    Good morning

    I wake up this morning to hear Cummings is leaving

    I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings

    I hope a deal with the EU is now more likely with a fazed transition

    I expect Boris is likely to remain in post through 2021 as he attempts to turn things round and especially move to a strong climate change agenda working with Joe Biden and others culminating in the climate conference next year in Glasgow

    And of course Trump will be over in January which is really good news

    New PB rule, if you're going to use French words, you have to make sure you use the appropriate l'accent circonflexe et al.
    That is beyond my ability to be honest
    Might I suggest that you do what I do; cheat. That is I look up what I want to to write in French on Google or Google translate, then cut and paste.
    I can spot the output of Google Translate in my students' work with 100% accuracy. It's haphazard with les prépositions and at least four of the seven non-compound tenses. I think it's actually worse going from French to English as English has twelve verb tenses and we use them all.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    Unlike many on here I have a lot of time for Cummings. He is an iconoclast, and lordy do we need some of them. The smug, self-satisfied blob that runs our institutions, government and society seriously need a good kicking. And then some more kicking.

    But a government cannot run as a permanent revolution. Eventually a modus operandi needs to be reached with the establishment and some compromises need to be made. I think Cummings saw this himself in his January blog. And he was right. As usual.

    Very similar to the eulogy offered to Donald Trump by Cameron's ex Svengali Steve Hilton. What is it about ad men and lawyers that can turn the most gentle hoody huggers into raging right wing hoodlums?
    Sorry, which one am I? I am sure I should be able to work it out but as @Nigelb has already explained I am an idiot.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,692
    edited November 2020

    Good morning

    I wake up this morning to hear Cummings is leaving

    I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings

    I hope a deal with the EU is now more likely with a fazed transition

    I expect Boris is likely to remain in post through 2021 as he attempts to turn things round and especially move to a strong climate change agenda working with Joe Biden and others culminating in the climate conference next year in Glasgow

    And of course Trump will be over in January which is really good news

    New PB rule, if you're going to use French words, you have to make sure you use the appropriate l'accent circonflexe et al.

    Have I got this right?

    Bozo appointed Stratton to be his boss?

    The fragrant Carrie did, I think.
    It is none of her business. She is not even his wife. Moving from dictat by Cummings to dictat by Carrie sounds like plus ca change......
    Glad to see you don't give a cedilla for TSE's accents dictat @Beibheirli_C :wink:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,713

    Stocky said:

    Alistair said:

    My lay of Rishi for next leader is looking very bad at the moment.

    I think it`s over 60 years since a Conservative chancellor went on to lead the party. Is that right? If so, history is on your side.
    Major was chancellor, though I think he was foreign secretary by the time he became PM.
    Other way around, he was Foreign Secretary for three months in 1989, then became Chancellor in late 1989 then PM in November 1990 when Mrs Thatcher retired.
    Hmmm. Retired?
    Retirement by defenestration...
  • Stocky said:

    Alistair said:

    My lay of Rishi for next leader is looking very bad at the moment.

    I think it`s over 60 years since a Conservative chancellor went on to lead the party. Is that right? If so, history is on your side.
    Major was chancellor, though I think he was foreign secretary by the time he became PM.
    Other way around, he was Foreign Secretary for three months in 1989, then became Chancellor in late 1989 then PM in November 1990 when Mrs Thatcher retired.
    Thanks: I was in my early twenties at the time and not paying as much attention as I would now.
  • HYUFD said:

    twitter.com/ranil/status/1326896679036006401?s=20

    LinkedIn?

    Does anyone us that these days?
    I deleted my LinkedIn profile years ago. It was quite plain that the main users where recruiters and all I was doing was providing my information to them in the form of a giant and highly detailed CV.
    The point they gave my password out to hackers was the final straw for me.

    (On the plus side, it did make adopt unique passwords for each logon :open_mouth: )
    I was gone long before that happened. I joined up when it was created as a way of keeping up to date with your business contacts, but every time I logged in there were more and more demands for more and more information about me (not so much about the business) and eventually my Inbox was just a collection of "Really interesting career opportunity for you"

    When I mentioned in a Chamber of Commerce lunch that I had deleted it, it got two reactions: Either "What?!?! You deleted it?????" or "What's Linked-in?" :D
  • HYUFD said:

    twitter.com/ranil/status/1326896679036006401?s=20

    LinkedIn?

    Does anyone us that these days?
    I deleted my LinkedIn profile years ago. It was quite plain that the main users where recruiters and all I was doing was providing my information to them in the form of a giant and highly detailed CV.
    The point they gave my password out to hackers was the final straw for me.

    (On the plus side, it did make adopt unique passwords for each logon :open_mouth: )
    LinkedIn works really well in my industry. Yes there are some dipshit recruiters, but I just ignore them
  • HYUFD said:
    Tory 2024 landslide looking less likely on that news.

    Probably, something that is on Sunak's to do list at some point in the future.
    Surely the 2020 election provides them with a mandate for this. I'm sure it was in their manifesto somewhere. In fact, privatising the NHS was why people voted for Brexit. Let's Get Brexit Done and Privatise the NHS! Tax cuts for Tory donors all round.
  • kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cummings' departure is further evidence Boris is shifting towards a trade deal with the EU.

    However he will have to overcome resistance from some hardliners like Redwood in the process

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1327142958945218560?s=20

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1326927929822081024?s=20

    Some people see any deal as being on the EUs terms, from both sides if the divide. The ones who basically go 'the EU wants a deal so it is bad' are pretty frustrating. Even if its weighted more to them than us - negotiations go like that sometimes - it doesn't automatically mean it's bad.
    It's hard to see how there can be a deal now, at least not of the kind that allows the relatively unimpeded flow of goods. The government has painted itself into corner, and it is not in the EU's interests to compromise sufficiently to allow an escape. January is going to bring utter chaos.
    The only thing we can do is a deal which keeps things as they are. The EU grant us leave to go and negotiate our own bespoke deals and set our own standards at some future point. We cheer! And then we make the sovereign decision to continue along as we are now with unimpeded goods flowing freely.

    The compromise from them is that the UK becomes an associate of the EEA. Not a member you understand. We are going to have UK rules and standards thankyou very much. Its just that our standards happen to be their standards which is rather convenient if you think about it. And to maintain the smooth running we will pay money into a new UKEU trade agreement which absolutely isn't the same as the EU demanding money with menaces as they were before.

    We can either agree this up front. Or agree it a few days into the new year after the UK's CDS system fails, they try to revert to CHIEF which can't cope anyway hence the need to replace it, and then we call Brussels and say "as we haven't actually changed any standards yet can we go back to status quo ante?"
    I wonder how much we'll voluntarily agree to pay? If this were an episode of Yes, Minister, it would be £50 million a day, wouldn't it?

    (This would, of course, be pointless. It would actually be worse than the status quo ante, because there would be medium-term uncertainty about where the UK would end up and the EU wouldn't have to consider UK interests as its rules evolve. And we weren't really paying £350 million a week before.)

    As long as it's never worth the UK actually leaving, the Frogs can boil the frog of Euro integration to their hearts' content.)
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Roger said:

    I wonder whether there is any scenario where Brexit could be reversed? With it's architects crashing and with no obvious momentum coming from anywhere else and Ireland and Scotland likely to secede and opinion turning sharply against......

    Hope springs eternal.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Unlike many on here I have a lot of time for Cummings. He is an iconoclast, and lordy do we need some of them. The smug, self-satisfied blob that runs our institutions, government and society seriously need a good kicking. And then some more kicking.

    But a government cannot run as a permanent revolution. Eventually a modus operandi needs to be reached with the establishment and some compromises need to be made. I think Cummings saw this himself in his January blog. And he was right. As usual.

    I can see your point in theory as institutions do need a shake up, but something useful needs to come from that shake up. As your permanent revolution line suggests there are limits.
    And blundering in and cocking things about in unearned confidence may in fact shake things up in a way to prevent actually useful shakeups in future.

    If some arrogant, rude svengali messes everyone about to the point those following them are wary of even trying to sort things out it has been a net loss, even if the alternative was a sclerotic blob.

    It's the 'upsets the right people' level analysis and its crap.
    A slightly more nuanced response than most this morning. Thanks.
    It was "Smug self satisfied blob" that riled posters. An ugly cliche used almost exclusively by 'smug self satisfied' right wing hacks.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,001

    I'm told by a very reliable source that Cummings will be back next year as head of the government backed/run UK DARPA.

    Only if BoZo is still in post
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    edited November 2020
    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Unlike many on here I have a lot of time for Cummings. He is an iconoclast, and lordy do we need some of them. The smug, self-satisfied blob that runs our institutions, government and society seriously need a good kicking. And then some more kicking.

    But a government cannot run as a permanent revolution. Eventually a modus operandi needs to be reached with the establishment and some compromises need to be made. I think Cummings saw this himself in his January blog. And he was right. As usual.

    I can see your point in theory as institutions do need a shake up, but something useful needs to come from that shake up. As your permanent revolution line suggests there are limits.
    And blundering in and cocking things about in unearned confidence may in fact shake things up in a way to prevent actually useful shakeups in future.

    If some arrogant, rude svengali messes everyone about to the point those following them are wary of even trying to sort things out it has been a net loss, even if the alternative was a sclerotic blob.

    It's the 'upsets the right people' level analysis and its crap.
    A slightly more nuanced response than most this morning. Thanks.
    It was "Smug self satisfied blob" that riled posters. An ugly cliche used almost exclusively by 'smug self satisfied' right wing hacks.
    Fair enough. It was in fairness before my first cup of coffee in the morning. I accept its a cliché. (Hope that keeps @TSE happy. )
  • https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1327142958945218560?s=20

    We have already left you great twerp. Do not blame the rest of us if your shabby little project is not turning out as you dreamed.

    Be fair to the batshit brigade. They did a great job persuading people that the EU was a whole load of things not the EU and that the best way to get free trade was to tear up our free trade membership and impose a fuckton of red tape and costs.

    So of course we haven't left the "EU". Until we have changed every law and standard and tariff to something different we will still be subjects of their tyrannical dictat.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,136
    edited November 2020

    HYUFD said:
    Tory 2024 landslide looking less likely on that news.

    Probably, something that is on Sunak's to do list at some point in the future.
    Surely the 2020 election provides them with a mandate for this. I'm sure it was in their manifesto somewhere. In fact, privatising the NHS was why people voted for Brexit. Let's Get Brexit Done and Privatise the NHS! Tax cuts for Tory donors all round.
    It is not privatising the NHS, it would be moving to a social insurance healthcare system like even France and Germany have if you read the article
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298

    Andy_JS said:

    Nobody voted for Carrie Symonds. It's disappointing to read reports saying that she has a big political influence in number 10.

    Nobody voted for Dom Cummings either, but we are where we are.
    I don't recall the election of Alistair Campbell either... Plus ca change.
    Was Alistair Campbell's role really the same? I was a child for most of the Blair years, but in my memory he was a spin guy who did comms.

    He wasn't writing lengthy policy tracts, making operational decisions like buying satellite companies and reorganizing the MoD.

    I see Cummings as more equivalent to Mandelso...
  • kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Unlike many on here I have a lot of time for Cummings. He is an iconoclast, and lordy do we need some of them. The smug, self-satisfied blob that runs our institutions, government and society seriously need a good kicking. And then some more kicking.

    But a government cannot run as a permanent revolution. Eventually a modus operandi needs to be reached with the establishment and some compromises need to be made. I think Cummings saw this himself in his January blog. And he was right. As usual.

    I can see your point in theory as institutions do need a shake up, but something useful needs to come from that shake up. As your permanent revolution line suggests there are limits.
    And blundering in and cocking things about in unearned confidence may in fact shake things up in a way to prevent actually useful shakeups in future.

    If some arrogant, rude svengali messes everyone about to the point those following them are wary of even trying to sort things out it has been a net loss, even if the alternative was a sclerotic blob.

    It's the 'upsets the right people' level analysis and its crap.
    Generally speaking, there are an infinite number of ways to be wrong and only one way to be right. Blundering about like a bull in a China shop is unlikely to lead to success.
  • https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1327142958945218560?s=20

    We have already left you great twerp. Do not blame the rest of us if your shabby little project is not turning out as you dreamed.

    Redwood is an exception to the rule that politicians tend to be nicer in real life than you might have thought from their public persona.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,603
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    A Tory pivot back to cuddly Cameroonism will be very good news for Nigel Farage. And, therefore, for Labour.

    Except Farage got his highest ever GE voteshare in 2015, 12%, yet Cameron still got a majority and beat Ed Miliband's Labour.

    Starmer is also losing some voters to the Greens too don't forget
    Cameron lost seats to Milliband. He won enough from his erstwhile allies the LibDems to govern alone.
    Sunak I think would lose some seats in the Red Wall back to Labour but I think he could somewhat compensate by winning some seats like Bath, St Albans, Oxford West and Abingdon, Richmond Park and Twickenham May or Boris lost to the LDs and seats Cameron won like Enfield Southgate, Putney, Battersea, Warwick and Leamington, Canterbury, Croydon Central and Reading East which are now Labour. Election 2024 Sunak v Starmer would be rather like Major v Kinnock 1992 in my view.

    Sunak appeals more to middle class voters than Boris does, less to the white working class
    Hard to know on that. He did help them with the furlough payments, which probably stands him in good stead.

    Plus Dishy Rishi appeals to that significant raft of female voters of a certain age who were very anti-Boris.
  • HYUFD said:
    Tory 2024 landslide looking less likely on that news.

    Probably, something that is on Sunak's to do list at some point in the future.
    Surely the 2020 election provides them with a mandate for this. I'm sure it was in their manifesto somewhere. In fact, privatising the NHS was why people voted for Brexit. Let's Get Brexit Done and Privatise the NHS! Tax cuts for Tory donors all round.
    Germany has a social insurance system for public health care, as do many other European companies. Presumably evil privatisation imposed by equally evil right wing governments
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Good morning

    I wake up this morning to hear Cummings is leaving

    I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings

    I hope a deal with the EU is now more likely with a fazed transition

    I expect Boris is likely to remain in post through 2021 as he attempts to turn things round and especially move to a strong climate change agenda working with Joe Biden and others culminating in the climate conference next year in Glasgow

    And of course Trump will be over in January which is really good news

    With respect, Mr G, a 'fazed' transition is surely what we're worried about; what we need is a 'phased' transition .

    Although, of course, what we really need is no transition at all!
    Typo of the Month contender, surely?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,459
    rkrkrk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Nobody voted for Carrie Symonds. It's disappointing to read reports saying that she has a big political influence in number 10.

    Nobody voted for Dom Cummings either, but we are where we are.
    I don't recall the election of Alistair Campbell either... Plus ca change.
    Was Alistair Campbell's role really the same? I was a child for most of the Blair years, but in my memory he was a spin guy who did comms.

    He wasn't writing lengthy policy tracts, making operational decisions like buying satellite companies and reorganizing the MoD.

    I see Cummings as more equivalent to Mandelso...
    Nope - he was part of the sofa cabinet, and his fingers were all over everything that Blair did, not least the 45 minute dossier.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The only thing to take the shine off a good news day - Bernard Jenkin popping up on R4 to crow about it all

    He seems to think Cummings gone is an opportunity to appoint people like Redwood to the cabinet - "senior voices who understand Brexit ". I don't think that's what's going to happen , at all.
    You think he had "Redwood" in mind? I thought his appeal to get rid of all the "inexperienced" cabinet members and bring into Cabinet some senior members with experience sounded rather pitiful myself. Who might he possibly have been thinking of?
    In Bernard Jenkin's world, Redwood, Jenkin and Cash are now going to be called in to save Brexit, I think.
    He's a clueless chump, just like his father.
  • Stocky said:

    Alistair said:

    My lay of Rishi for next leader is looking very bad at the moment.

    I think it`s over 60 years since a Conservative chancellor went on to lead the party. Is that right? If so, history is on your side.
    Major was chancellor, though I think he was foreign secretary by the time he became PM.
    Other way around, he was Foreign Secretary for three months in 1989, then became Chancellor in late 1989 then PM in November 1990 when Mrs Thatcher retired.
    Is "retired" quite le correctly-accented mot juste?
  • I see Trump now needs 770% of the remaining Pennsylvania votes.....
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    edited November 2020

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cummings' departure is further evidence Boris is shifting towards a trade deal with the EU.

    However he will have to overcome resistance from some hardliners like Redwood in the process

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1327142958945218560?s=20

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1326927929822081024?s=20

    Some people see any deal as being on the EUs terms, from both sides if the divide. The ones who basically go 'the EU wants a deal so it is bad' are pretty frustrating. Even if its weighted more to them than us - negotiations go like that sometimes - it doesn't automatically mean it's bad.
    It's hard to see how there can be a deal now, at least not of the kind that allows the relatively unimpeded flow of goods. The government has painted itself into corner, and it is not in the EU's interests to compromise sufficiently to allow an escape. January is going to bring utter chaos.
    The only thing we can do is a deal which keeps things as they are. The EU grant us leave to go and negotiate our own bespoke deals and set our own standards at some future point. We cheer! And then we make the sovereign decision to continue along as we are now with unimpeded goods flowing freely.

    The compromise from them is that the UK becomes an associate of the EEA. Not a member you understand. We are going to have UK rules and standards thankyou very much. Its just that our standards happen to be their standards which is rather convenient if you think about it. And to maintain the smooth running we will pay money into a new UKEU trade agreement which absolutely isn't the same as the EU demanding money with menaces as they were before.

    We can either agree this up front. Or agree it a few days into the new year after the UK's CDS system fails, they try to revert to CHIEF which can't cope anyway hence the need to replace it, and then we call Brussels and say "as we haven't actually changed any standards yet can we go back to status quo ante?"
    I wonder how much we'll voluntarily agree to pay? If this were an episode of Yes, Minister, it would be £50 million a day, wouldn't it?

    (This would, of course, be pointless. It would actually be worse than the status quo ante, because there would be medium-term uncertainty about where the UK would end up and the EU wouldn't have to consider UK interests as its rules evolve. And we weren't really paying £350 million a week before.)

    As long as it's never worth the UK actually leaving, the Frogs can boil the frog of Euro integration to their hearts' content.)
    I always thought the stupidest thing in the complete disaster of Brexit was that Cameron negotiated (and then failed to explain) a deal prior to the vote.

    We should have voted, then negotiated (a deal similar to what Cameron got) and that would have given us the appropriate outcome. A union where we were both part of Europe but slightly aloof while letting the rest of the EU integrate at their own speed.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Dura_Ace said:

    Good morning

    I wake up this morning to hear Cummings is leaving

    I am so pleased that finally influential ladies in number 10 have delivered their coup de grace and seen off Cummings

    I hope a deal with the EU is now more likely with a fazed transition

    I expect Boris is likely to remain in post through 2021 as he attempts to turn things round and especially move to a strong climate change agenda working with Joe Biden and others culminating in the climate conference next year in Glasgow

    And of course Trump will be over in January which is really good news

    New PB rule, if you're going to use French words, you have to make sure you use the appropriate l'accent circonflexe et al.
    That is beyond my ability to be honest
    Might I suggest that you do what I do; cheat. That is I look up what I want to to write in French on Google or Google translate, then cut and paste.
    I can spot the output of Google Translate in my students' work with 100% accuracy. It's haphazard with les prépositions and at least four of the seven non-compound tenses. I think it's actually worse going from French to English as English has twelve verb tenses and we use them all.
    Yeah but you would say that - like the TV licence detector vans.

    Keep 'em guessing/scared.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    I wonder whether there is any scenario where Brexit could be reversed? With it's architects crashing and with no obvious momentum coming from anywhere else and Ireland and Scotland likely to secede and opinion turning sharply against......

    Hope springs eternal.

    It would have been easiest from a halfway house soft Brexit. Which is why the LibDems and relevant Tories were fools for not pursuing this path when it was on the table.
  • Scott_xP said:

    I'm told by a very reliable source that Cummings will be back next year as head of the government backed/run UK DARPA.

    Only if BoZo is still in post
    Yes; if Boris has been replaced by Gove then Cummings will be back running the whole show.
This discussion has been closed.