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The money shifts back to Biden on Betfair’s £240m next President market – politicalbetting.com

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  • What odds an extension of Brexit transition?

    Nope, Boris Johnson will want to throw some red meat to his lockdown sceptic base.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,005
    Mortimer said:

    And some will pretend I am happy about this lockdown. Let me assure you I am not, this is going to have devastating impacts on my mental health and the health of others. This was not inevitable - but it has been since September and I said so. Johnson is entirely to blame for this and I will never vote Tory in my life as a result.

    'Shall I put you down as a maybe?'

    Lets be honest. Polls show people don't blame the government for the rise in the virus.

    However, Boris has just lost his right flank. Those who will blame the govt for the economic fallout.
    It's not either tackle the Covid OR help the economy. Tackling Covid will help the economy long term.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,015

    LadyG said:

    UK government and scientists have not covered themselves with glory, but I will defend them on the basis that these decisions are fucking awful.

    If you lockdown you destroy mental health and the economy, if you don't, you get a rampant virus and many dead.

    The idea a brisk 2 week Starmer circuit breaker would have fixed this is nuts. No other country has done that, successfully.

    Do you think it would have been better to go into lockdown on 13 October, when the scientists requested it, yes or no?
    We’re not are we? This isn’t a circuit breaker. Schools, uni, work + still continues.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,628
    stodge said:

    Not watching this new form of tenth-rate seaside entertainment on a Saturday night.

    One observation - Parliament will vote on the measures on Wednesday. Can anyone envisage a scenario where the Government is defeated and what the consequences of that would be?

    The chance of that must be near zero given Labour's position.
  • stodge said:

    Not watching this new form of tenth-rate seaside entertainment on a Saturday night.

    One observation - Parliament will vote on the measures on Wednesday. Can anyone envisage a scenario where the Government is defeated and what the consequences of that would be?

    Not really as Labour are likely to support these proposals
  • What odds an extension of Brexit transition?

    None. Ending transition during lockdown would be ideal.
  • Was it only a few days ago some people were comparing the English/Welsh border to the Berlin Wall?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,472
    TimT said:

    Reading through this and many other similar threads over the last few months, I cannot escape the thought that the UK would be in a better position re COVID if people didn't constantly bewail how awful every response to the outbreak has been.

    We'd be in a better position if every response to the outbreak weren't so awful.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,510

    RobD said:

    I wonder if they'll resume regular press conferences after this?

    Allegra Stratton is urgently needed as no 10 comms is dreadful
    And to think there were people who seriously claimed Boris was good at communicating.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,194
    Are gyms open or shut?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,058
    Floater said:

    Jonathan said:

    JACK_W said:

    In the gloom of his present situation Jezza would be forgiven for having an ironic smile as the printing presses splurge out countless more billions. His magic money tree has become a Conservative fantastical forest.

    Can you imagine the shite poured on Corbyn if he had taken the exact same economic route. The Tory right would be in meltdown.
    Lots of people are not happy with the expenditure - but a global pandemic is a bit of a different fish than Labours pans right?
    The other point to make is that nobody expects Johnson to keep these measures long term.

    What he sees - in fairness - as a disaster requiring short term fixes, Corbyn and McDonnell would have seen as a golden opportunity.

    Even railway franchising has not been abandoned in quite the way people claim. Under Corbyn, they would have been renationalised in toto.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,503

    What odds an extension of Brexit transition?

    None. Ending transition during lockdown would be ideal.
    If there's no business happening anyway...
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,015

    Mr Ed’s posts today re: voter suppression don’t really surprise me. Through a veneer of respectability and politeness, this poster has been luxuriating in the prospect of stopping people voting for many weeks now.

    Must be rigorously operated though - I’m unhappy with drive through voting to be honest.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,023
    FPT
    Chris said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    I take this guy's point - he's quite cogent - however if lockdowns are so utterly useless and damaging, why are they being enforced by: Germany, France, Holland, Belgium, Spain, Australia, Czechia, Iran, and previously in China, Singapore, etc?
    Lockdowns are useful in buying time to organise. We have proven we can't or won't do that so there's no point. Asian countries used them to buy time, we're using the to stop infections.
    Unless the aim is to stop the NHS being overwhelmed, and 1,000s more dying, lockdowns will raise total deaths.

    F*** knows why most countries reversed the past 100 years of public health policy. This policy was to a) allow the healthy to live normal lives and b) isolate the sick.

    People like me are just asking for a reversion to this approach. Similarly those who signed the Great Barrington Declaration.
    Unfortunately "allowing the healthy to live normal lives" would result in half a million deaths or so.
    Sweden, population 10 M: ~5,900 deaths.
    No lockdown but the policies adopted aimed to enable people to live with the virus indefinitely.

    UK, population 67 M
    Scale the Swedish figure upwards.
    It gives in theory ~39,000 UK deaths with no lockdown.

    Worldometer says there've been 46,555 UK deaths.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,723
    edited October 2020
    I don't know. This is classic viewed through media we love Macron, hate Boris stuff. Macron has balls this crisis up just as much as Boris, if not more. Talk about us being late again with national action, France is worse at testing and yet their numbers are sky rocketing.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,628
    No vaccine tease though, which is disappointing.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,510
    edited October 2020
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,396
    There is the "What if this doesn't work?" question.
  • RobD said:

    I wonder if they'll resume regular press conferences after this?

    Allegra Stratton is urgently needed as no 10 comms is dreadful
    Yet for some reason the idea of No10 hiring someone / her accepting the job got riduculed.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    UK government and scientists have not covered themselves with glory, but I will defend them on the basis that these decisions are fucking awful.

    If you lockdown you destroy mental health and the economy, if you don't, you get a rampant virus and many dead.

    The idea a brisk 2 week Starmer circuit breaker would have fixed this is nuts. No other country has done that, successfully.

    Do you think it would have been better to go into lockdown on 13 October, when the scientists requested it, yes or no?
    I honestly do not know. The economic and psychological damage of bringing in lockdown that early might have been worse than this; it is impossible to say, there are so many imponderables.

    If you do definitely know, you have a gigantic brain the size of Jupiter and you should be employed by the government as a kind of human super-computer

    The only thing we can say is that short 2 week lockdowns do NOT work. They've been tried elsewhere (eg Israel). They failed.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,465
    TimT said:

    Reading through this and many other similar threads over the last few months, I cannot escape the thought that the UK would be in a better position re COVID if people didn't constantly bewail how awful every response to the outbreak has been.

    We would be in a better position if every response to the outbreak hadn't been so fucking awful.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,707

    What odds an extension of Brexit transition?

    I had the same thought last night. I think the way Boris could sell it is if there is a heads of agreement concluded in the next 10 days or so. Even that might fudge the 3 biggies (LPF, disputes, and fish).
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,194
    TimT said:

    Reading through this and many other similar threads over the last few months, I cannot escape the thought that the UK would be in a better position re COVID if people didn't constantly bewail how awful every response to the outbreak has been.

    Exactly
  • RobD said:

    No vaccine tease though, which is disappointing.

    What was the question / answer?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,510
    No travel ban.

    Despite the increasing evidence that strict border controls are one key to getting on top of this thing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,723
    edited October 2020

    No travel ban.

    Despite the increasing evidence that strict border controls are one key to getting on top of this thing.

    Is that confirmed...surely not....this is just insanity....in fact it is worse, its criminal. We are just continually reseeding the epidemic.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,465

    Yet for some reason the idea of No10 hiring someone / her accepting the job got riduculed.

    Think she still wants it?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,472
    It's being spread through schools, universities and family gatherings. So Bozo's flash of insight is to have a go at shutting down everything but these.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,510

    RobD said:

    I wonder if they'll resume regular press conferences after this?

    Allegra Stratton is urgently needed as no 10 comms is dreadful
    Yet for some reason the idea of No10 hiring someone / her accepting the job got riduculed.
    It *is* ridiculous.
    Boris is so utterly lazy (and useless and comms) he doesn’t even want to talk to the press.
  • Stocky said:

    Mr Ed’s posts today re: voter suppression don’t really surprise me. Through a veneer of respectability and politeness, this poster has been luxuriating in the prospect of stopping people voting for many weeks now.

    Must be rigorously operated though - I’m unhappy with drive through voting to be honest.
    Then you really don't know much about American politics, have you see how the GOP have tried to reduce the ability to vote, such as the lack of polling stations.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,058

    No travel ban.

    Despite the increasing evidence that strict border controls are one key to getting on top of this thing.

    Is that confirmed...surely not....this is just insanity....in fact it is worse, its criminal.
    Let’s close those things that don’t spread Covid, and keep all those things that do.

    Yep, sounds typical Johnson to me.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,628

    RobD said:

    No vaccine tease though, which is disappointing.

    What was the question / answer?
    None, which was disappointing :D
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,015
    JACK_W said:

    In the gloom of his present situation Jezza would be forgiven for having an ironic smile as the printing presses splurge out countless more billions. His magic money tree has become a Conservative fantastical forest.

    What are you suggesting? That Corbyn would fuck the country and future generations WITHOUT a pandemic! Thank Christ he didn’t win.
  • Floater said:

    Are gyms open or shut?

    Shut.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    No travel ban.

    Despite the increasing evidence that strict border controls are one key to getting on top of this thing.

    Is that confirmed...surely not....this is just insanity....in fact it is worse, its criminal. We are just continually reseeding the epidemic.
    That's not confirmed yet. Tho it would be nice if my trip to Lanzarote is suddenly OK again
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,628

    No travel ban.

    Despite the increasing evidence that strict border controls are one key to getting on top of this thing.

    Nothing announced at the press conference. Let's see what turns up on Monday, or in the press.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,460

    What odds an extension of Brexit transition?

    Surely even Bozo the Clown cannot be stupid enough to go ahead with no deal with the current clusterfcuk raging.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 16,754
    Very glad Boris and his supporters were not around in 1940.
  • Nobody needs to go away for a spot skiing or a week in the sun over Christmas...and we are still going to let everybody arrive and potter onto the Tube, have a wander around London unchecked.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 6,352
    Any news on house moves?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,058
    malcolmg said:

    What odds an extension of Brexit transition?

    Surely even Bozo the Clown cannot be stupid enough to go ahead with no deal with the current clusterfcuk raging.
    What odds are you offering Malc?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,460

    Professor Whitty says he is much more optimistic when he looks forward to the Spring

    Halfwittery saying that has made me feel a lot better
  • RobD said:

    I wonder if they'll resume regular press conferences after this?

    Allegra Stratton is urgently needed as no 10 comms is dreadful
    Yet for some reason the idea of No10 hiring someone / her accepting the job got riduculed.
    It *is* ridiculous.
    Boris is so utterly lazy (and useless and comms) he doesn’t even want to talk to the press.
    No you're bullshitting.

    Having a press spokesperson doesn't mean that politicians don't speak to the press anymore. Look anywhere where heads of government have press spokespersons including the UK and the USA and that is obvious. Unless you're a deliberately obtuse idiot.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,970
    alex_ said:

    That was a case study of a poor PowerPoint presentation.

    Convinced Steve Baker who subjected the scientists to detailed and critical questioning though...

    I love the fact that they are trying to scare the South West, in particular, with the idea that the numbers in hospital are going to surpass the March/April peak. This is the South West where all we heard was how empty the hospitals were.
    You start with an executive summary of the key messages, and then hone in on just 2-4 key slides that highlight "why", and then wrap up with a strong conclusion and next steps.

    This is a textbook example of why you don't let scientists and analysts compile any presentation: they insist on going through all the minutia of their working before getting to the point. You brief the PM in private one way but you need to brief the nation in another - and release the detailed stats later.

    People knew the message was going to be "lockdown", and they just wanted to know how long and how bad.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,155

    Stocky said:

    Mr Ed’s posts today re: voter suppression don’t really surprise me. Through a veneer of respectability and politeness, this poster has been luxuriating in the prospect of stopping people voting for many weeks now.

    Must be rigorously operated though - I’m unhappy with drive through voting to be honest.
    Then you really don't know much about American politics, have you see how the GOP have tried to reduce the ability to vote, such as the lack of polling stations.
    I thought that the statistic yesterday that approximately 1/3 of entitled US adults are not even on the electoral register was telling and said all that needed to be said about the long term policies of suppression.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,272

    Mr Ed’s posts today re: voter suppression don’t really surprise me. Through a veneer of respectability and politeness, this poster has been luxuriating in the prospect of stopping people voting for many weeks now.

    Sorry to have to make this personal but I have nothing but contempt those that act as mealy mouthed apologists for what the GOP is getting up to in this election. Yes both sides try to gain advantage but this year the GOP are an absolute disgrace, there is no equivalence.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,723
    edited October 2020
    LadyG said:

    No travel ban.

    Despite the increasing evidence that strict border controls are one key to getting on top of this thing.

    Is that confirmed...surely not....this is just insanity....in fact it is worse, its criminal. We are just continually reseeding the epidemic.
    That's not confirmed yet. Tho it would be nice if my trip to Lanzarote is suddenly OK again
    Even if it does come in, he should have made it clear, this isn't happening for Christmas, for Easter, it just ain't happening. Instead, yet again, the impression was, month of this lockdown, then all down the boozer for Christmas Eve, and away for New Year.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,441
    edited October 2020
    Reminds me of a row between Richard Dawkins and the American right wing talk show host.. cant remember his name, but he argued that Hitler and Stalin were Atheists and that killed millions. Dawkins said that had as much to do with it as the fact they both had moustaches

    Bill O'Reilly
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,747
    DavidL said:

    The level of anti Boris hysteria on here is now exceeding previous peaks that were largely Brexit related. It’s genuinely mad. This is a very difficult situation and I am not pretending for a moment that there are a lot of things that could have been done better but some people need to either get a grip or start offering Boris departure related bets that we can take advantage of.

    I don't know about on here, but it feels like the anti Boris hysteria is mainly coming from people who voted for him in 2019 and ought to be his core voters, so it's got to be politically significant that he is alienating so many of them, even if he has little choice.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,460
    TimT said:

    Reading through this and many other similar threads over the last few months, I cannot escape the thought that the UK would be in a better position re COVID if people didn't constantly bewail how awful every response to the outbreak has been.

    Come and live here and we will see how long you keep that opinion
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,906
    Johnson says that he was very sorry for all the leaks - but that press conference would have made no sense whatsoever if we hadn't had all the leaks telling us what the government was proposing. Because they sure as hell didn't reveal much in it themselves.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,707
    @Scott_P and IanB2 - I think my comment is true regardless of the actual level of awfulness of the decisions made.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 64,723
    edited October 2020
    And I wonder how much more extra spread there has been because of dicking about negotiating closure of Manchester for 10 days.
  • TimT said:

    Reading through this and many other similar threads over the last few months, I cannot escape the thought that the UK would be in a better position re COVID if people didn't constantly bewail how awful every response to the outbreak has been.

    Quite.

    And there's a lot of anger around at the moment. It's understandable -- this is another emotional moment -- but we would all do well to reflect on the difficulty of the decisions that the government face, and that many facts are less certain than stated.

    --AS
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,155

    DavidL said:

    The level of anti Boris hysteria on here is now exceeding previous peaks that were largely Brexit related. It’s genuinely mad. This is a very difficult situation and I am not pretending for a moment that there are a lot of things that could have been done better but some people need to either get a grip or start offering Boris departure related bets that we can take advantage of.

    I don't know about on here, but it feels like the anti Boris hysteria is mainly coming from people who voted for him in 2019 and ought to be his core voters, so it's got to be politically significant that he is alienating so many of them, even if he has little choice.
    Show us the money.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,628
    alex_ said:

    Johnson says that he was very sorry for all the leaks - but that press conference would have made no sense whatsoever if we hadn't had all the leaks telling us what the government was proposing. Because they sure as hell didn't reveal much in it themselves.

    I thought it was pretty clear that people were being told to stay at home except for work if you couldn't work from home, and essential shopping and exercise.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,058
    edited October 2020
    isam said:

    Reminds me of a row between Richard Dawkins and the American right wing talk show host.. cant remember his name, but he argued that Hitler and Stalin were Atheists and that killed millions
    Dawkins argued the opposite.

    Both were wrong.

    Hitler was neither an atheist nor a Christian. Nor, with rare exceptions, were his motives religious (Jehovah’s Witnesses being the main exception I can think of).

    But Stalin definitely did kill thousands if not millions in a bid to impose atheism, as did Lenin.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,970

    alex_ said:

    That was a case study of a poor PowerPoint presentation.

    Convinced Steve Baker who subjected the scientists to detailed and critical questioning though...

    I love the fact that they are trying to scare the South West, in particular, with the idea that the numbers in hospital are going to surpass the March/April peak. This is the South West where all we heard was how empty the hospitals were.
    You start with an executive summary of the key messages, and then hone in on just 2-4 key slides that highlight "why", and then wrap up with a strong conclusion and next steps.

    This is a textbook example of why you don't let scientists and analysts compile any presentation: they insist on going through all the minutia of their working before getting to the point. You brief the PM in private one way but you need to brief the nation in another - and release the detailed stats later.

    People knew the message was going to be "lockdown", and they just wanted to know how long and how bad.
    Also, it was all about "save the NHS", and there was key stuff missing about economic impact with/without, mental/physical health collateral damage, and other social/ behavioural analysis that might have convinced sceptics.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,015

    Stocky said:

    Mr Ed’s posts today re: voter suppression don’t really surprise me. Through a veneer of respectability and politeness, this poster has been luxuriating in the prospect of stopping people voting for many weeks now.

    Must be rigorously operated though - I’m unhappy with drive through voting to be honest.
    Then you really don't know much about American politics, have you see how the GOP have tried to reduce the ability to vote, such as the lack of polling stations.
    You misunderstand me , polling stations are the gold standard - should never be a shortage and voters should never have to queue more than an hour to vote.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,402
    MrEd said:


    Must be rigorously operated though - I’m unhappy with drive through voting to be honest.

    That's a completely different argument though. To attempt to invalidate after the fact is something else completely.
  • Floater said:

    TimT said:

    Reading through this and many other similar threads over the last few months, I cannot escape the thought that the UK would be in a better position re COVID if people didn't constantly bewail how awful every response to the outbreak has been.

    Exactly
    Don't worry. Come December there's gonna be so many stiff upper lips we won't know what to do with them all.
  • Professor Whitty says he is much more optimistic when he looks forward to the Spring

    Does he get to retire then?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,906
    OllyT said:

    Mr Ed’s posts today re: voter suppression don’t really surprise me. Through a veneer of respectability and politeness, this poster has been luxuriating in the prospect of stopping people voting for many weeks now.

    Sorry to have to make this personal but I have nothing but contempt those that act as mealy mouthed apologists for what the GOP is getting up to in this election. Yes both sides try to gain advantage but this year the GOP are an absolute disgrace, there is no equivalence.
    The suggestion that the Republicans are only acting out of a genuine concern of widespread Democrat voter fraud made me laugh. The thinking seems to go: "Democrats are going to commit fraud, therefore the safest way to ensure this doesn't succeed is to reject all their legitimately cast votes".
  • Another massive laugh.
    Government fights a protracted battle against the King in the North - the country can't afford the £5m you want. NW Tory MPs sent out to parrot the line and get roundly derided for it.
    Government then whips their MPs to vote against feeding hungry kids as we can't afford it. UC is generous, parents are crack whores, WE CAN'T AFFORD IT.
    Government mocks the idea of a national lockdown. Mocks Wales for locking down.

    And then announces a national lockdown, with £fucktons of money to extend Furlough. All that effort, all that political capital burned and for what? To make them look like cunts.

    That Dominic Cummings. Political Genius he is.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    DavidL said:

    The level of anti Boris hysteria on here is now exceeding previous peaks that were largely Brexit related. It’s genuinely mad. This is a very difficult situation and I am not pretending for a moment that there are a lot of things that could have been done better but some people need to either get a grip or start offering Boris departure related bets that we can take advantage of.

    The hysteria is very silly indeed, as if half the world weren't facing very similar crises and as if a second wave hadn't been predicted many months in advance.

    This chap was warning about it back in July...

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1288063902031515648
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,460

    I don't know. This is classic viewed through media we love Macron, hate Boris stuff. Macron has balls this crisis up just as much as Boris, if not more. Talk about us being late again with national action, France is worse at testing and yet their numbers are sky rocketing.
    He does not come across as a circus clown however.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,556
    malcolmg said:

    TimT said:

    Reading through this and many other similar threads over the last few months, I cannot escape the thought that the UK would be in a better position re COVID if people didn't constantly bewail how awful every response to the outbreak has been.

    Come and live here and we will see how long you keep that opinion
    Boot on other foot, surely. From Stateside we must sound the way someone moaning about this dreadful cold they can't shake off, sounds to a stage 4 cancer patient.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,346
    DavidL said:

    The level of anti Boris hysteria on here is now exceeding previous peaks that were largely Brexit related. It’s genuinely mad. This is a very difficult situation and I am not pretending for a moment that there are a lot of things that could have been done better but some people need to either get a grip or start offering Boris departure related bets that we can take advantage of.

    Boris Johnson is Prime Minister - he leads the Government and it's much easier for people to blame "the Government" than question their own behaviour.

    I said in August if we got a second lockdown it would be the public's fault but you can't tell the public that. Rather like Mary Poppins, the public see themselves as practically perfect in every way.

    Have Johnson and the Government done well? Mistakes have been made - the moving of known Covid patients back into care homes was a national disgrace and I seriously hope one day Hancock will fall on his sword over that. Beyond that, there has been a classic dilemma at the heart of Government - "health versus wealth" is one way of looking at it but you sense the inner philosophical battle for Johnson who is by nature outgoing, optimistic and cheery and that was to be his style of Government - relentlessly upbeat, relentlessly positive, relentlessly optimistic.

    He doesn't so sombre well, he doesn't so unpopular well, he doesn't do bad news well. Even now, he has to throw a bone of hope about "the spring" - I suspect that's more for his benefit than ours.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    No travel ban.

    Despite the increasing evidence that strict border controls are one key to getting on top of this thing.

    Is that confirmed...surely not....this is just insanity....in fact it is worse, its criminal. We are just continually reseeding the epidemic.
    That's not confirmed yet. Tho it would be nice if my trip to Lanzarote is suddenly OK again
    Even if it does come in, he should have made it clear, this isn't happening for Christmas, for Easter, it just ain't happening. Instead, yet again, the impression was, month of this lockdown, then all down the boozer for Christmas Eve, and away for New Year.
    Disagree. I believe the government is well aware that these restrictions are likely to endure in some form til Spring 2021. There will be some temporary easing for Xmas, then back in the box we go.

    But if you tell people that, they will despair. You could literally provoke suicides. You could certainly provoke mass disobedience.

    They have to tread a fine line between telling the terrible truth and making us scared, yet offering precious hope, and a sense of a way out.

    It's not easy. Lots of governments are fucking this up. Including governments we generally see as competent, like the Netherlands.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,906
    Pulpstar said:

    MrEd said:


    Must be rigorously operated though - I’m unhappy with drive through voting to be honest.

    That's a completely different argument though. To attempt to invalidate after the fact is something else completely.
    And only, coincidentally, in Democrat heavy voting areas...
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,015
    stodge said:

    Not watching this new form of tenth-rate seaside entertainment on a Saturday night.

    One observation - Parliament will vote on the measures on Wednesday. Can anyone envisage a scenario where the Government is defeated and what the consequences of that would be?

    Oh the joy! A fellow Strickly Come Dancing curmudgeon.

    New I could rely on you Stodge.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,472
    edited October 2020
    The Tory MP for Poole has tweeted his disappointment that we didn't hear more from Bozo about car showrooms and estate agents.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    What will happen in the four weeks to change any outcomes? This is a stop gap, not a solution as there are no solutions without a vaccine, even talking about Christmas is crazy if you think the strategy is right. Concentrate effort on keeping people out of ICU and the bug out of care homes.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,022
    edited October 2020
    The government panicked into another unnecessary and uncosted lockdown by some modelling with spurious assumptions.

    Again.
  • DavidL said:

    The level of anti Boris hysteria on here is now exceeding previous peaks that were largely Brexit related. It’s genuinely mad. This is a very difficult situation and I am not pretending for a moment that there are a lot of things that could have been done better but some people need to either get a grip or start offering Boris departure related bets that we can take advantage of.

    The hysteria is very silly indeed, as if half the world weren't facing very similar crises and as if a second wave hadn't been predicted many months in advance.

    This chap was warning about it back in July...

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1288063902031515648
    But his own health minister said this today.

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1322590408988336129
  • LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    No travel ban.

    Despite the increasing evidence that strict border controls are one key to getting on top of this thing.

    Is that confirmed...surely not....this is just insanity....in fact it is worse, its criminal. We are just continually reseeding the epidemic.
    That's not confirmed yet. Tho it would be nice if my trip to Lanzarote is suddenly OK again
    Even if it does come in, he should have made it clear, this isn't happening for Christmas, for Easter, it just ain't happening. Instead, yet again, the impression was, month of this lockdown, then all down the boozer for Christmas Eve, and away for New Year.
    Disagree. I believe the government is well aware that these restrictions are likely to endure in some form til Spring 2021. There will be some temporary easing for Xmas, then back in the box we go.

    But if you tell people that, they will despair. You could literally provoke suicides. You could certainly provoke mass disobedience.

    They have to tread a fine line between telling the terrible truth and making us scared, yet offering precious hope, and a sense of a way out.

    It's not easy. Lots of governments are fucking this up. Including governments we generally see as competent, like the Netherlands.
    The problem is that might have worked the first time around, but does anybody really believe we will have this sorted? I just don't think people believe it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,460
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    What odds an extension of Brexit transition?

    Surely even Bozo the Clown cannot be stupid enough to go ahead with no deal with the current clusterfcuk raging.
    What odds are you offering Malc?
    Ydoethur , not very nice trying to fleece me, probably 1-1000 he does are about right odds though it will cost me a quid.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,672
    IanB2 said:

    The Tory MP for Poole has tweeted his disappointment that we didn't hear more from Bozo about car showrooms and estate agents.

    Actually, I think the press conference was too biased to justifying the actions. There should have been slides setting out what restrictions were coming into place. Obviously it can't be too detailed, but I still don't know about going abroad. Sky News implied that it's banned, but Boris didn't actually say it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,510

    RobD said:

    I wonder if they'll resume regular press conferences after this?

    Allegra Stratton is urgently needed as no 10 comms is dreadful
    Yet for some reason the idea of No10 hiring someone / her accepting the job got riduculed.
    It *is* ridiculous.
    Boris is so utterly lazy (and useless and comms) he doesn’t even want to talk to the press.
    No you're bullshitting.

    Having a press spokesperson doesn't mean that politicians don't speak to the press anymore. Look anywhere where heads of government have press spokespersons including the UK and the USA and that is obvious. Unless you're a deliberately obtuse idiot.
    Boris has spent his whole career evading accountability, and he’s a terrible communicator as we’ve just seen.

    His actual job is to front up in Parliament and defend his government’s record. But he’s *also* shit at that.

    So the plan is to appoint an attractive, coherent, and unelected press spokesman - on the American model - to push a daily party political broadcast to the public over the heads of the press and parliament.

    It’s another debauch of the Westminster system.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,556

    alex_ said:

    That was a case study of a poor PowerPoint presentation.

    Convinced Steve Baker who subjected the scientists to detailed and critical questioning though...

    I love the fact that they are trying to scare the South West, in particular, with the idea that the numbers in hospital are going to surpass the March/April peak. This is the South West where all we heard was how empty the hospitals were.
    You start with an executive summary of the key messages, and then hone in on just 2-4 key slides that highlight "why", and then wrap up with a strong conclusion and next steps.

    This is a textbook example of why you don't let scientists and analysts compile any presentation: they insist on going through all the minutia of their working before getting to the point. You brief the PM in private one way but you need to brief the nation in another - and release the detailed stats later.

    People knew the message was going to be "lockdown", and they just wanted to know how long and how bad.
    No, you HOME in on it. Like a pigeon.
  • glwglw Posts: 7,744
    I regularly say critical things about Boris Johnson, so I think it is only fair that I say that I thought he explained the situation and the goverment's response very well this evening. His tone, the language, and the directness were all spot on.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    edited October 2020
    The infuriating thing about both this response and the March response was just how bloody similar it is.

    Despite plenty of warning the government decided to do nothing substantial and try and pretend things were okay.

    The "rush for normality" in Summer will be a key thing to focus on for the Truth and Reconciliation commission.

    I'm going to be very, very interested to see how Sturgeon plays this now. She clearly wanted another lockdown but without the financial support of the UK government it wasn't viable.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,906

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    No travel ban.

    Despite the increasing evidence that strict border controls are one key to getting on top of this thing.

    Is that confirmed...surely not....this is just insanity....in fact it is worse, its criminal. We are just continually reseeding the epidemic.
    That's not confirmed yet. Tho it would be nice if my trip to Lanzarote is suddenly OK again
    Even if it does come in, he should have made it clear, this isn't happening for Christmas, for Easter, it just ain't happening. Instead, yet again, the impression was, month of this lockdown, then all down the boozer for Christmas Eve, and away for New Year.
    Disagree. I believe the government is well aware that these restrictions are likely to endure in some form til Spring 2021. There will be some temporary easing for Xmas, then back in the box we go.

    But if you tell people that, they will despair. You could literally provoke suicides. You could certainly provoke mass disobedience.

    They have to tread a fine line between telling the terrible truth and making us scared, yet offering precious hope, and a sense of a way out.

    It's not easy. Lots of governments are fucking this up. Including governments we generally see as competent, like the Netherlands.
    The problem is that might have worked the first time around, but does anybody really believe we will have this sorted? I just don't think people believe it.
    I went to the supermarket today. I can tell you that queuing outside in the rain didn't engender quite the same kind of blitz spirit jokey camaraderie that it did in the sun back in April.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,741

    Nobody needs to go away for a spot skiing or a week in the sun over Christmas...and we are still going to let everybody arrive and potter onto the Tube, have a wander around London unchecked.

    TfL bail out runs out tomorrow so it's out of money unless things can quickly
  • RobD said:

    I wonder if they'll resume regular press conferences after this?

    Allegra Stratton is urgently needed as no 10 comms is dreadful
    Yet for some reason the idea of No10 hiring someone / her accepting the job got riduculed.
    It *is* ridiculous.
    Boris is so utterly lazy (and useless and comms) he doesn’t even want to talk to the press.
    Besides.
    If Dom is doing policy, and Allegra is doing presentation, what exactly is Boris for?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    glw said:

    I regularly say critical things about Boris Johnson, so I think it is only fair that I say that I thought he explained the situation and the goverment's response very well this evening. His tone, the language, and the directness were all spot on.

    You have to be kidding. Johnson's delivery was abysmal.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 1,914
    It's all well and good still clapping yourselves on the back about dexamethasone but it's still not made any progress in us not having to have these restrictions.

    If that's the reason to be cheerful then, fuck me, it's grim.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    Reminds me of a row between Richard Dawkins and the American right wing talk show host.. cant remember his name, but he argued that Hitler and Stalin were Atheists and that killed millions
    Dawkins argued the opposite.

    Both were wrong.

    Hitler was neither an atheist nor a Christian. Nor, with rare exceptions, were his motives religious (Jehovah’s Witnesses being the main exception I can think of).

    But Stalin definitely did kill thousands if not millions in a bid to impose atheism, as did Lenin.
    And Pol Pot. A crazed atheist. Absolutely loathed religion. Had monks thrown off cliffs and temples burned to dust.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,465
    glw said:

    I regularly say critical things about Boris Johnson, so I think it is only fair that I say that I thought he explained the situation and the goverment's response very well this evening. His tone, the language, and the directness were all spot on.

    and 4 weeks too late...

    https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1322624435917066241
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,628
    Alistair said:

    The infuriating thing about both this response and the March response was just how bloody similar it is.

    Despite plenty of warning the government decided to do nothing substantial and try and pretend things were okay.

    The "rush for normality" in Summer will be a key thing to focus on for the Truth and Reconciliation commission.

    I'm going to be very, very interested to see how Sturgeon plays this now. She clearly wanted another lockdown but without the financial support of the UK government it wasn't viable.

    I wonder if they would extended the furlough program to Scotland if she asked to be included in the four-week lockdown? I suppose the difficult bit would be winding it down on the other side.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 34,460
    DavidL said:

    The level of anti Boris hysteria on here is now exceeding previous peaks that were largely Brexit related. It’s genuinely mad. This is a very difficult situation and I am not pretending for a moment that there are a lot of things that could have been done better but some people need to either get a grip or start offering Boris departure related bets that we can take advantage of.

    Sounds like the Tory herd are panicking David
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,465

    If Dom is doing policy, and Allegra is doing presentation, what exactly is Boris for?

    Eating all the pies
This discussion has been closed.