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My logic for bailing out of the spread betting markets on this year’s White House Race – politicalbe

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Comments

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm keeping my Biden supremacy bet open at 28

    Think I am too. 120 would tempt me but it's way off that.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Scott_xP said:
    Bernard Jenkin said she needs a holiday. No shortage of suggestions so far
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    I don't want to shock anyone here but perusing the NC early voting data I see that no less than Four Hundred and Twelve people of the age 120 years old have cast their early vote.

    What do you mean? There are 412 people who are 120 years old that have voted?
    Yes. And one person who is 257 years old.
    I can believe it, but do you have any evidence for it?
    It's in the NC Early voter file from their election stats page.

    To be honest the data is a bit of a mess, lots of records are missing fields which makes it hard to process the data.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880



    Ah, Drakeford ...

    I took him to a supermarket
    I don't know why
    But I had to start it somewhere
    So it started there
    I said, "Pretend you've got no money"
    He just laughed and said
    "Oh you're so funny"

    Oh, is this the way they say the future's meant to feel?
    Or just twenty thousand schoolkids starving in a field?
    And I don't quite understand just who this Rashford is
    But that's okay 'cause we're all sorted out for violins and jizz
    And tell me when the Brexit lands 'cause all this has just got to mean something-ing
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,912

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    If woke = doesn't think kids should go hungry then consider me woke.
    The families already get benefit money for food. Maybe we could do this and scrap all child benefits instead as the money obviously makes no difference to whether they get fed or not.

    The feature creep for schools is ridiculous, they should be for educating children (for free) not a social service.
    Now they have to feed kids not only during term time, but during holidays too.

    They'll have to give presents at Christmas to kids with feckless parents soon as well.
    The schools are only stepping in because the rest of the welfare state has been hacked back by successive Tory governments. And even the Tories haven't abolished public education yet. No doubt it's on Cummings's to do list, after blowing up the economy and owning the libs.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    If woke = doesn't think kids should go hungry then consider me woke.
    The families already get benefit money for food. Maybe we could do this and scrap all child benefits instead as the money obviously makes no difference to whether they get fed or not.

    The feature creep for schools is ridiculous, they should be for educating children (for free) not a social service.
    Now they have to feed kids not only during term time, but during holidays too.

    They'll have to give presents at Christmas to kids with feckless parents soon as well.
    A real Tory full of the milk of human kindness.
  • Roy_G_BivRoy_G_Biv Posts: 998
    If a child goes hungry, isn't it both the parents AND the state who are feckless?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587
    malcolmg said:

    IanB2 said:


    Russell George, the Tory AM who helpfully suggested to Mark Drakeford his hugely unpopular supermarket policy, now denies it was anything to do with him.

    "I don't support the Welsh Government's approach to banning non-essential sales in Welsh shops, I’m the one that got the FM to admit his plans! Retail should be open, the National lockdown is wrong approach "

    I love the way Russell describes Drakeford implementing Russell's bad idea as getting "the FM to admit his plans! " Genius.

    Did he just raise the problem (of unhappy shopkeepers) or did he first float the implemented solution?
    Fair point, there is some wiggle room for Russell George AM.

    He raised the point that it was "unfair" on small shops that supermarkets were open and could sell items while independent clothing and hardware retailers were shut.

    Drakeford then said, in response to his question,

    "In the first set of restrictions people were reasonably understanding of the fact that supermarkets didn’t close all the things that they may have needed to. I don’t think that people will be as understanding this time and we will be making it clear to supermarkets that they are only able to open those parts of their business that provide essential goods to people and that will not include some of the things that Russell George mentioned which other people are prevented from selling."

    So, I think you are right.

    Russell George raised the problem, but the solution & its implementation is due to Drakeford.
    I don't think Russell George is smart enough to have realised the magnificence of the stunt he pulled off.

    Furious backpedaling on Monday from Drakeford no doubt. My take is George's point is fundamentally correct, but by over reacting the WG have brought the whole fire break idea crashing down around them, which is a shame. When Drakeford does U turn, every man and his dog will be queuing to browse for tat at Tesco.

    It is a big win for Russell George, the Welsh Tories, Boris and the English based media.
    And more than that, plain common sense
    No BigG. it is not. The idea behind restricting shopping to essential items makes perfect sense if the fire break has any chance to work. It has been implemented dreadfully.

    The issue of the fire break is essentially an issue of political choice. Labour, PC and the LDs in Wales are in favour, the Conservatives and Brexit Party are opposed to it. Drakeford's foolhardiness has allowed the opponents to seize the agenda and undermine the whole notion of the fire break. Ensuring the fire break fails confirms that Johnson's system (even if it is failing badly) is the only way forward, not only for England but for Wales and Scotland too.

    When Drakeford capitulates it will be like the January sales.
    Scotland does not need Johnson's corrupt gang or system anywhere near them, they are a toxic bunch of venal crooks.
    Indeed, but the Conservative mugging Drakeford leading to their victory over the fire break idea in Wales will steer Nicola clear of such foolhardy action. Even if it looks to be the safe thing to do.
  • nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Name names, Amazon etc Fine but you are actually implying footballers Do be up front and name them.
    It is standard practice for players to have their image rights paid to a company and pay corporation tax rather than income tax.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136

    On topic

    I believe the chicanery suggested will win Trump his re-election. I am looking at swing states where the GOP hold the legislature and can influence the result. On that basis it doesn't look bright for Biden

    IIUC the legislature generally can't do much without the agreement of the governor, who for WI, PA and MI is a Dem. In theory WI might be an issue as their supreme court is GOP-held and prone to ratfuckery, but beyond that SCOTUS would have to intervene; I think they'd be reluctant to do that except in coin-flip cases like Bush vs Gore, as they have cushy lifetime jobs and won't want to risk their heads ending up on pikes.

    Overall I think once you get out of coin-flip territory courts and legislatures will be reluctant to be too outrageous, because they risk getting it in the neck without actually being sure of winning, because you're relying on lots of other courts and/or legislatures *also* being outrageous for your outrageousness to be useful.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    And interesting account from Wisconsin, which suggests that the forecast of a Democratic win is likely correct.
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/campaign-chronicles/will-trumps-law-and-order-message-work-in-wisconsins-white-suburbs

    The article is more nuanced than that, it suggests there are more Biden signs than there were Hillary signs in Wisconsin but also more Trump supporters in the key counties than there were in 2016 too, with some who left their ballots blank last time at the presidential level voting for Trump this time
    You must take your consolations where you can.

    As an aside, it rather neatly delineates the shy Biden voter, too.
    Yes but unless the shy Biden voters with Trump voting husbands also voted for Trump in 2016 there would be no change, they would just be voting for Biden as they voted for Hillary then.

    However we do know it was the shy Trump voters who were not telling pollster in the Midwest they were doing so
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    We will be alone, but still hold all the cards. Perhaps we can play Solitaire?
    We have already agreed a trade deal with Japan
    Yes stilton with 30% tariffs unless the EU do not take up their quota , what a beezer deal.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840
    Historic win for NDP in British Columbia. First left of centre majority in BC, and first ever 2 term NDP Premier in Canada for John Horgan.
    Interesting that the C+S partner the Greens haven't suffered, they held pretty steady, whilst the opposition Libs lost ground.
    Very similar to what happened in NZ in many ways.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    Roy_G_Biv said:

    If a child goes hungry, isn't it both the parents AND the state who are feckless?

    But every teacher (and school Governor) knows that there are feckless parents..
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Dura_Ace said:



    Ah, Drakeford ...

    I took him to a supermarket
    I don't know why
    But I had to start it somewhere
    So it started there
    I said, "Pretend you've got no money"
    He just laughed and said
    "Oh you're so funny"

    Oh, is this the way they say the future's meant to feel?
    Or just twenty thousand schoolkids starving in a field?
    And I don't quite understand just who this Rashford is
    But that's okay 'cause we're all sorted out for violins and jizz
    And tell me when the Brexit lands 'cause all this has just got to mean something-ing
    Very good. There is a Pulp song for every politician.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited October 2020

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    If woke = doesn't think kids should go hungry then consider me woke.
    The families already get benefit money for food. Maybe we could do this and scrap all child benefits instead as the money obviously makes no difference to whether they get fed or not.

    The feature creep for schools is ridiculous, they should be for educating children (for free) not a social service.
    Now they have to feed kids not only during term time, but during holidays too.

    They'll have to give presents at Christmas to kids with feckless parents soon as well.
    The schools are only stepping in because the rest of the welfare state has been hacked back by successive Tory governments. And even the Tories haven't abolished public education yet. No doubt it's on Cummings's to do list, after blowing up the economy and owning the libs.
    This - I loved having to find £25k from a very tight school budget to support a School Chaplain to perform the work that previously the council had a separate budget for. The £5k the school was given for doing the work didn't really help.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
    Am now waiting for the tabloids to run headlines linked to celebrity chefs condemning the ingredients, too much sugar, fat, followed by vegans organising a boycott of the free school meals.

    Johnson was spun as a good delegator, adept at PR, but his team have proved to be leaden footed, slow moving, slow thinking and about as much good as an Manchester United centre half.

  • kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    If woke = doesn't think kids should go hungry then consider me woke.
    The families already get benefit money for food. Maybe we could do this and scrap all child benefits instead as the money obviously makes no difference to whether they get fed or not.

    The feature creep for schools is ridiculous, they should be for educating children (for free) not a social service.
    Now they have to feed kids not only during term time, but during holidays too.

    They'll have to give presents at Christmas to kids with feckless parents soon as well.
    The schools are only stepping in because the rest of the welfare state has been hacked back by successive Tory governments. And even the Tories haven't abolished public education yet. No doubt it's on Cummings's to do list, after blowing up the economy and owning the libs.
    Lol government spending in 2018 on social protection was £256bn and over a quarter of all spending.

    Yeah practically nothing these days.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited October 2020
    Mark Drakeford used to be a Welsh nationalist who thought trashing English only road signs was a fantastic thing to be doing'.

    The atheist, republican who was Corbyn's favoured candidate to succeed Carwyn Jones later decided that class was more important than nationality, and became a socialist and joined the Labour Party.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8876225/First-Minister-Mark-Drakeford-backs-radical-socialist-traditions.html
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited October 2020
    dr_spyn said:

    Am now waiting for the tabloids to run headlines linked to celebrity chefs condemning the ingredients, too much sugar, fat, followed by vegans organising a boycott of the free school meals.

    Johnson was spun as a good delegator, adept at PR, but his team have proved to be leaden footed, slow moving, slow thinking and about as much good as an Manchester United centre half.

    That's an insult to a Manchester United centre half - an Elgin City under 7s centre half would be a better comparison.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    BBC reporting that the Sunday Times claims that Bozo is going to wait and let US voters decide our Brexit fate; Trump re-election means no deal, Biden means compromise deal.

    Ideal scenario ..... Biden wins tells UK to go to hell in a handcart.... the economy nosedives... Johnson deposed.... general election ...PM Starmer promises another Referendum..... re-enter wins..... EU agrees subject to joining Schengen and the euro....


    and we all live happily ever after
    Even in an idealised scenario you cannot imagine everyone would happily or even sullenly live with that. Brexit didn't get to be such a huge deal because no one cares much about it except on one side.
    You're too pessimistic. I believe that as the Hartlipudlians become more advanced they'll get used to slim attractive Europeans living amongst them.
    @Roger glad to have you back

    🤣🤣🍿🍿🍿

    Thank you! Quite a greeting
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited October 2020

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    If woke = doesn't think kids should go hungry then consider me woke.
    The families already get benefit money for food. Maybe we could do this and scrap all child benefits instead as the money obviously makes no difference to whether they get fed or not.

    The feature creep for schools is ridiculous, they should be for educating children (for free) not a social service.
    Now they have to feed kids not only during term time, but during holidays too.

    They'll have to give presents at Christmas to kids with feckless parents soon as well.
    The schools are only stepping in because the rest of the welfare state has been hacked back by successive Tory governments. And even the Tories haven't abolished public education yet. No doubt it's on Cummings's to do list, after blowing up the economy and owning the libs.
    Lol government spending in 2018 on social protection was £256bn and over a quarter of all spending.

    Yeah practically nothing these days.
    As with everything else - badly managed, incredibly badly outsourced (let me show you the cowboy agencies and tax schemes they pushed their workers into) and not value for money.

    Social Protection is a great example where the only thing that matters is price and never value. I've seen arguments where councils argued that was the rate of pay even when shown that the rate of pay either meant illegal wages or no agency...
  • nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Name names, Amazon etc Fine but you are actually implying footballers Do be up front and name them.
    It is standard practice for players to have their image rights paid to a company and pay corporation tax rather than income tax.
    Players cant just elect to have their pay paid as image rights. Image rights can be paid for some of their income where they are real.

    HMRC are not very much on top of this and will take aggressive action to get compliance for those evading.

    https://www.mondaq.com/uk/tax-authorities/975698/hmrc-target-footballers-agents-and-clubs-in-new-wave-of-investigations
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    edited October 2020

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Do you have any evidence that Rashford is a tax avoider?

    On a previous thread you accused footballer of setting up companies to avoid tax. I suspect many do set up companies because they have multiple incomes, eg sponsorship, but many on here pointed out that they were paid their wages through PAYE. In addition many of us set up companies. I did for my business which I ran for about 30 years. I did not avoid any tax other than normal financial planning that anyone under PAYE could do. Of course there are dubious schemes you could use to avoid tax, but most people don't. I am sure there are a few footballers, just like other high earning people (eg entertainers) who are attracted by these schemes, but don't tar everyone with the same brush when you don't know if Rashford does.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    IanB2 said:

    welshowl said:

    IanB2 said:


    Russell George, the Tory AM who helpfully suggested to Mark Drakeford his hugely unpopular supermarket policy, now denies it was anything to do with him.

    "I don't support the Welsh Government's approach to banning non-essential sales in Welsh shops, I’m the one that got the FM to admit his plans! Retail should be open, the National lockdown is wrong approach "

    I love the way Russell describes Drakeford implementing Russell's bad idea as getting "the FM to admit his plans! " Genius.

    Did he just raise the problem (of unhappy shopkeepers) or did he first float the implemented solution?
    Fair point, there is some wiggle room for Russell George AM.

    He raised the point that it was "unfair" on small shops that supermarkets were open and could sell items while independent clothing and hardware retailers were shut.

    Drakeford then said, in response to his question,

    "In the first set of restrictions people were reasonably understanding of the fact that supermarkets didn’t close all the things that they may have needed to. I don’t think that people will be as understanding this time and we will be making it clear to supermarkets that they are only able to open those parts of their business that provide essential goods to people and that will not include some of the things that Russell George mentioned which other people are prevented from selling."

    So, I think you are right.

    Russell George raised the problem, but the solution & its implementation is due to Drakeford.
    I don't think Russell George is smart enough to have realised the magnificence of the stunt he pulled off.

    Furious backpedaling on Monday from Drakeford no doubt. My take is George's point is fundamentally correct, but by over reacting the WG have brought the whole fire break idea crashing down around them, which is a shame. When Drakeford does U turn, every man and his dog will be queuing to browse for tat at Tesco.

    It is a big win for Russell George, the Welsh Tories, Boris and the English based media.
    Well I told the cat her cat litter was not essential this morning and asked her to hold on for another 16 days.

    The reply I got was wholly more sensible than anything the Welsh Govt is capable of.
    Alternatives include recycled paper pellets, corn pellets, shredded coconut shells, wood shavings, a mix of dish soap + shredded paper + baking soda + water, sand, dried tea leaves, wood pellets, rabbit food, puppy pads, or the garden....or you can even train a cat to perch over a human toilet. Apparently.

    The cat perches expertly on radiators, toilets, I guess, will prove a bridge too far.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    If woke = doesn't think kids should go hungry then consider me woke.
    The families already get benefit money for food. Maybe we could do this and scrap all child benefits instead as the money obviously makes no difference to whether they get fed or not.

    The feature creep for schools is ridiculous, they should be for educating children (for free) not a social service.
    Now they have to feed kids not only during term time, but during holidays too.

    They'll have to give presents at Christmas to kids with feckless parents soon as well.
    The schools are only stepping in because the rest of the welfare state has been hacked back by successive Tory governments. And even the Tories haven't abolished public education yet. No doubt it's on Cummings's to do list, after blowing up the economy and owning the libs.
    Lol government spending in 2018 on social protection was £256bn and over a quarter of all spending.

    Yeah practically nothing these days.
    including pensions
  • eek said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    If woke = doesn't think kids should go hungry then consider me woke.
    The families already get benefit money for food. Maybe we could do this and scrap all child benefits instead as the money obviously makes no difference to whether they get fed or not.

    The feature creep for schools is ridiculous, they should be for educating children (for free) not a social service.
    Now they have to feed kids not only during term time, but during holidays too.

    They'll have to give presents at Christmas to kids with feckless parents soon as well.
    The schools are only stepping in because the rest of the welfare state has been hacked back by successive Tory governments. And even the Tories haven't abolished public education yet. No doubt it's on Cummings's to do list, after blowing up the economy and owning the libs.
    Lol government spending in 2018 on social protection was £256bn and over a quarter of all spending.

    Yeah practically nothing these days.
    As with everything else - badly managed, incredibly badly outsourced (let me show you the cowboy agencies and tax schemes they pushed their workers into) and not value for money.
    Of course government spending is incredibly bad value for money, that's why I want them to spend less and let people, especially the poorest workers keep some of their own money.

    Why anyone wants to give even more to them to waste is beyond me.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840
    dr_spyn said:

    Am now waiting for the tabloids to run headlines linked to celebrity chefs condemning the ingredients, too much sugar, fat, followed by vegans organising a boycott of the free school meals.

    Johnson was spun as a good delegator, adept at PR, but his team have proved to be leaden footed, slow moving, slow thinking and about as much good as an Manchester United centre half.

    dr_spyn said:

    Am now waiting for the tabloids to run headlines linked to celebrity chefs condemning the ingredients, too much sugar, fat, followed by vegans organising a boycott of the free school meals.

    Johnson was spun as a good delegator, adept at PR, but his team have proved to be leaden footed, slow moving, slow thinking and about as much good as an Manchester United centre half.

    Unlikely.
    As the free school meals consist of an Online £15 supermarket gift card.
  • eek said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Am now waiting for the tabloids to run headlines linked to celebrity chefs condemning the ingredients, too much sugar, fat, followed by vegans organising a boycott of the free school meals.

    Johnson was spun as a good delegator, adept at PR, but his team have proved to be leaden footed, slow moving, slow thinking and about as much good as an Manchester United centre half.

    That's an insult to a Manchester United centre half - an Elgin City under 7s centre half would be a better comparison.
    Elgin are top of their division to be fair
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited October 2020
    kjh said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Do you have any evidence that Rashford is a tax avoider?

    On a previous thread you accused footballer of setting up companies to avoid tax. I suspect many do set up companies because they have multiple incomes, eg sponsorship, but many on here pointed out that they were paid their wages through PAYE. In addition many of us set up companies. I did for my business which I ran for about 30 years. I did not avoid any tax other than normal financial planning that anyone under PAYE could do. Of course there are dubious schemes you could use to avoid tax, but most people don't. I am sure there are a few footballers, just like other high earning people (eg entertainers) who are attracted by these schemes, but don't tar everyone with the same brush when you don't know if Rashford does.
    The only way you can avoid PAYE as a footballer on your playing income is regarding image rights (of which there are 283 tax cases launched by HMRC within the past 12 months). In all those cases it's far more about whether the proportion of income is correctly split rather than anything else.

    I also, suspect were Rashford to be being paid 100% of his income as image rights HMRC really couldn't object nowadays - as I think even I could argue it was fair given his reputation in the country and the commercial value that could be derived from association with him.

  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,793
    Must be all false positives, and people going to hospital with a bad case of the false positives and then dying of acute false positive syndrome.

    Toby Young and his friends say so. Must be true.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587
    HYUFD said:

    Mark Drakeford used to be a Welsh nationalist who thought trashing English only road signs was a fantastic thing to be doing'.

    The atheist, republican who was Corbyn's favoured candidate to succeed Carwyn Jones later decided that class was more important than nationality, and became a socialist and joined the Labour Party.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8876225/First-Minister-Mark-Drakeford-backs-radical-socialist-traditions.html

    Oh no! You are now quoting the Daily Mail. I think I preferred it when you quoted more reliable sources like Trafalgar!
  • nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Name names, Amazon etc Fine but you are actually implying footballers Do be up front and name them.
    It is standard practice for players to have their image rights paid to a company and pay corporation tax rather than income tax.
    Players cant just elect to have their pay paid as image rights. Image rights can be paid for some of their income where they are real.

    HMRC are not very much on top of this and will take aggressive action to get compliance for those evading.

    https://www.mondaq.com/uk/tax-authorities/975698/hmrc-target-footballers-agents-and-clubs-in-new-wave-of-investigations
    They don't have their wages paid through a company, but their image rights which is on top of their massive wages.

    They can legally do this and pay only 19% corporation tax, but the investigation you linked to is some clubs underpaying their wages and topping it up with unrealistic image rights payments. The image rights scheme is perfectly legal and all players do it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited October 2020
    dixiedean said:

    Historic win for NDP in British Columbia. First left of centre majority in BC, and first ever 2 term NDP Premier in Canada for John Horgan.
    Interesting that the C+S partner the Greens haven't suffered, they held pretty steady, whilst the opposition Libs lost ground.
    Very similar to what happened in NZ in many ways.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/

    The NDP of course provide confidence and supply for Trudeau's Liberal government nationally so while of interest at local level in BC does not really mean much Federally, the Conservatives are only a minor force in BC regional politics but did win most seats in BC Federally last year
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    HYUFD said:
    “We’re reviewing with supermarkets the understanding and the clarity of the policy”


    So it’s not their fault they banned us from buying baby clothes, or shoes, or tin openers, no no, it’s the supermarkets who misunderstood the policy.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Worldometer deaths 925/1m, second only to Peru
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    IshmaelZ said:

    Worldometer deaths 925/1m, second only to Peru
    So the only thing worse than Bozo in government is either Trump or no government at all?>
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    eek said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Am now waiting for the tabloids to run headlines linked to celebrity chefs condemning the ingredients, too much sugar, fat, followed by vegans organising a boycott of the free school meals.

    Johnson was spun as a good delegator, adept at PR, but his team have proved to be leaden footed, slow moving, slow thinking and about as much good as an Manchester United centre half.

    That's an insult to a Manchester United centre half - an Elgin City under 7s centre half would be a better comparison.
    Elgin are top of their division to be fair
    Trust me to pick the wrong example - i literally picked a random low division team.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587
    HYUFD said:
    ...until it doesn't. If it isn't rescindef before Tuesday I would be surprised. I don't agree with opening up Tesco for family outings but the whole fire break has been hijacked by this issue.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    It's odd because the government had such an easy way out, say yes to additional support for kids, limit it to parents who are unemployed or find themselves on one of the various job schemes. That way the principle of not subsidising bad parenting is upheld and you actually are helping a lot of kids who need it and parents who are struggling because the government has ordered their employer/business to close.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    edited October 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    Worldometer deaths 925/1m, second only to Peru
    And only half the country is affected by it!
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Name names, Amazon etc Fine but you are actually implying footballers Do be up front and name them.
    It is standard practice for players to have their image rights paid to a company and pay corporation tax rather than income tax.
    You clearly have little knowledge of tax. Firstly they will pay Corporation Tax, then when they pay the money out they will pay income tax either on a salary or dividend. So that means they pay more tax by doing that. They will save on NI (assume they don't pay themselves a salary over a trivial amount) and the £2000 dividend tax free band, but although that might be useful if you earn tens of thousands it is peanuts if you earn millions. They will have greater flexibility on expenses that can be claimed.

    Of course there are bigger gains to be made if you enter a dodgy tax scheme, but they are being clamped down on and are expensive if you get caught out and you seem to be assuming they are all doing it
  • If Trump can get the election to the courts, he wins.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587
    I thought RT was one of your heros...oh you mean Gething.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited October 2020
    eek said:

    eek said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Am now waiting for the tabloids to run headlines linked to celebrity chefs condemning the ingredients, too much sugar, fat, followed by vegans organising a boycott of the free school meals.

    Johnson was spun as a good delegator, adept at PR, but his team have proved to be leaden footed, slow moving, slow thinking and about as much good as an Manchester United centre half.

    That's an insult to a Manchester United centre half - an Elgin City under 7s centre half would be a better comparison.
    Elgin are top of their division to be fair
    Trust me to pick the wrong example - i literally picked a random low division team.
    And of course we have a lot of relatives in Elgin and my wife's home town of Lossiemouth so Elgin's progress is of interest
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,793
    IshmaelZ said:

    Worldometer deaths 925/1m, second only to Peru
    Do we know if Gupta has finally accepted that her claim that probably only 100/1m infected by covid die of it and certainly no more than 1000/1m is looking somewhere quite a long way past unlikely?

    And that just maybe her inability to get journals to publish that might have been down to a disagreement with her methodology rather than a dark international conspiracy.
  • kjh said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Name names, Amazon etc Fine but you are actually implying footballers Do be up front and name them.
    It is standard practice for players to have their image rights paid to a company and pay corporation tax rather than income tax.
    You clearly have little knowledge of tax. Firstly they will pay Corporation Tax, then when they pay the money out they will pay income tax either on a salary or dividend. So that means they pay more tax by doing that. They will save on NI (assume they don't pay themselves a salary over a trivial amount) and the £2000 dividend tax free band, but although that might be useful if you earn tens of thousands it is peanuts if you earn millions. They will have greater flexibility on expenses that can be claimed.

    Of course there are bigger gains to be made if you enter a dodgy tax scheme, but they are being clamped down on and are expensive if you get caught out and you seem to be assuming they are all doing it
    They wouldn't go to the trouble of joining those schemes if they didn't save money.
  • I thought RT was one of your heros...oh you mean Gething.
    I am not particularly impressed with RT to be honest but yes I was referring to Gething
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    edited October 2020

    On topic, if the US election is clearly corrupt what should the UK response be? Will those who took a very strong moral stance against China do the same with the US, or will they flip to pragmatism? Or denial?

    When I hear people talk about all the values we share with the US, they cannot mean a commitment to free and fair elections or to an independent judiciary. So what are they? Unless, that is, we know longer have those values either.

  • nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Name names, Amazon etc Fine but you are actually implying footballers Do be up front and name them.
    It is standard practice for players to have their image rights paid to a company and pay corporation tax rather than income tax.
    Players cant just elect to have their pay paid as image rights. Image rights can be paid for some of their income where they are real.

    HMRC are not very much on top of this and will take aggressive action to get compliance for those evading.

    https://www.mondaq.com/uk/tax-authorities/975698/hmrc-target-footballers-agents-and-clubs-in-new-wave-of-investigations
    They don't have their wages paid through a company, but their image rights which is on top of their massive wages.

    They can legally do this and pay only 19% corporation tax, but the investigation you linked to is some clubs underpaying their wages and topping it up with unrealistic image rights payments. The image rights scheme is perfectly legal and all players do it.
    Not all players do, they have to be very famous, which doesnt apply to even all premier league player, and also be actually commercially exploiting their image. Just playing football wouldnt count.

    Geovanni's case makes it clear that you cant just declare its image rights and expect to get away with it.

    https://www.devereuxchambers.co.uk/resources/news/view/first-tier-tax-tribunal-determines-that-payments-under-a-premier-league-footballers-image-rights-agreement-taxable-as-earnings

    Also there are Premier League caps on 20% per player and 15% of total commercial revenue that can be classified as image rights, so the vast majority of their football earnings are normal salary.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,929
    edited October 2020
    Deleted.
  • On topic, if the US election is clearly corrupt what should the UK response be? Will those who took a very strong moral stance against China do the same with the US, or will they flip to pragmatism? Or denial?

    When I hear people talk about all the values we share with the US, they cannot mean a commitment to free and fair elections or to an independent judiciary. So what are they? Unless, that is, we know longer have those values either.

    Car chases, gridiron and guns?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,912
    Dura_Ace said:



    Ah, Drakeford ...

    I took him to a supermarket
    I don't know why
    But I had to start it somewhere
    So it started there
    I said, "Pretend you've got no money"
    He just laughed and said
    "Oh you're so funny"

    Oh, is this the way they say the future's meant to feel?
    Or just twenty thousand schoolkids starving in a field?
    And I don't quite understand just who this Rashford is
    But that's okay 'cause we're all sorted out for violins and jizz
    And tell me when the Brexit lands 'cause all this has just got to mean something-ing
    Brilliant.

    That is a great album, not a bad song on it and some unbelievably good ones too.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Worldometer deaths 925/1m, second only to Peru
    And only half the country is affected by it!
    Shit that's right, isn't it? And no ground for claiming that extreme remoteness means their immune systems never really get going.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Name names, Amazon etc Fine but you are actually implying footballers Do be up front and name them.
    It is standard practice for players to have their image rights paid to a company and pay corporation tax rather than income tax.
    Players cant just elect to have their pay paid as image rights. Image rights can be paid for some of their income where they are real.

    HMRC are not very much on top of this and will take aggressive action to get compliance for those evading.

    https://www.mondaq.com/uk/tax-authorities/975698/hmrc-target-footballers-agents-and-clubs-in-new-wave-of-investigations
    They don't have their wages paid through a company, but their image rights which is on top of their massive wages.

    They can legally do this and pay only 19% corporation tax, but the investigation you linked to is some clubs underpaying their wages and topping it up with unrealistic image rights payments. The image rights scheme is perfectly legal and all players do it.
    Engage brain. See my previous post. How do you think they then get the money out of the company without paying tax again?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited October 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Mark Drakeford used to be a Welsh nationalist who thought trashing English only road signs was a fantastic thing to be doing'.

    The atheist, republican who was Corbyn's favoured candidate to succeed Carwyn Jones later decided that class was more important than nationality, and became a socialist and joined the Labour Party.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8876225/First-Minister-Mark-Drakeford-backs-radical-socialist-traditions.html

    Oh no! You are now quoting the Daily Mail. I think I preferred it when you quoted more reliable sources like Trafalgar!
    It is true though, at the moment while Starmer now leads UK Labour, Corbyn Labour is making a last stand in Wales under the hapless Drakeford, who supported Corbyn for the leadership even in 2015.

    Therefore I think the Tories might do better in Wales next year in the Assembly elections than they do in England in the local elections (and certainly better than in London in the Mayoral and Assembly elections).

    Indeed the Tories might find they even get a higher voteshare in Wales in the Assembly elections than they do both in England in the local elections and Scotland in the Scottish Parliament elections, that was certainly what Opinium was suggesting last night
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    edited October 2020

    Dura_Ace said:



    Ah, Drakeford ...

    I took him to a supermarket
    I don't know why
    But I had to start it somewhere
    So it started there
    I said, "Pretend you've got no money"
    He just laughed and said
    "Oh you're so funny"

    Oh, is this the way they say the future's meant to feel?
    Or just twenty thousand schoolkids starving in a field?
    And I don't quite understand just who this Rashford is
    But that's okay 'cause we're all sorted out for violins and jizz
    And tell me when the Brexit lands 'cause all this has just got to mean something-ing
    Brilliant.

    That is a great album, not a bad song on it and some unbelievably good ones too.
    It's Different Class!
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited October 2020

    kjh said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Name names, Amazon etc Fine but you are actually implying footballers Do be up front and name them.
    It is standard practice for players to have their image rights paid to a company and pay corporation tax rather than income tax.
    You clearly have little knowledge of tax. Firstly they will pay Corporation Tax, then when they pay the money out they will pay income tax either on a salary or dividend. So that means they pay more tax by doing that. They will save on NI (assume they don't pay themselves a salary over a trivial amount) and the £2000 dividend tax free band, but although that might be useful if you earn tens of thousands it is peanuts if you earn millions. They will have greater flexibility on expenses that can be claimed.

    Of course there are bigger gains to be made if you enter a dodgy tax scheme, but they are being clamped down on and are expensive if you get caught out and you seem to be assuming they are all doing it
    They wouldn't go to the trouble of joining those schemes if they didn't save money.
    Nowadays they don't save money but people don't realise that untils it's far too late.

    Now I could bore you for days about tax schemes (as they are something I'm working on given the forthcoming IR35 changes but here are two things that need to be clear).

    HMRC will chase you for the tax.
    Separately the eventual Liquidator will in all likelihood chase you for any and all money owed. For loan schemes that's usually fairly straightforward (but expensive if you argue in court). For none loan schemes various other options are available for the liquidator including a combination of Unjust Enrichment / Dishonest Assistance / Transaction at an Undervalue / Transaction to Defraud Creditors and that was off the top of a liquidators head when I was talking about what I'm working on and asked him for appropriate comments for a blog post on why you should only use complaint umbrellas.

    For reference Unjust Enrichment / Dishonest Assistance / Transaction at an Undervalue / Transaction to Defraud Creditors could be used to chase both the person / footballer who joined the scheme and the club / agency who paid the money into the scheme.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019

    https://twitter.com/SelaineSaxby/status/1319755372857622528

    I feel so sorry for these poor Conservative victims. All they did was vote against feeding hungry children. And in Selaine's case berated businesses for showing compassion and charity. Someone needs to Step In and tell these monsters in the British Public to shut up. Someone well liked and respected. Like Laurence Fox.

    If these were "left-wing lawyers" you'd be demanding heads roll for an attack that legitimised bullying and risked real-life assault.

    Parliamentarians have a responsibility to use measured language toward one another, no matter how vociferous the policy differences.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,840
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Historic win for NDP in British Columbia. First left of centre majority in BC, and first ever 2 term NDP Premier in Canada for John Horgan.
    Interesting that the C+S partner the Greens haven't suffered, they held pretty steady, whilst the opposition Libs lost ground.
    Very similar to what happened in NZ in many ways.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/

    The NDP of course provide confidence and supply for Trudeau's Liberal government nationally so while of interest at local level in BC does not really mean much Federally, the Conservatives are only a minor force in BC regional politics but did win most seats in BC Federally last year
    Not saying it necessarily presages anything, but the parallels with NZ are quite spooky.
    Similar population. Similar government. (Both in ideology and in being in minority). Similar result.

    Ps. The Liberals in BC encompass the Conservatives. They are more than considerably to the right of Justin's Federal LPC.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458

    kjh said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Name names, Amazon etc Fine but you are actually implying footballers Do be up front and name them.
    It is standard practice for players to have their image rights paid to a company and pay corporation tax rather than income tax.
    You clearly have little knowledge of tax. Firstly they will pay Corporation Tax, then when they pay the money out they will pay income tax either on a salary or dividend. So that means they pay more tax by doing that. They will save on NI (assume they don't pay themselves a salary over a trivial amount) and the £2000 dividend tax free band, but although that might be useful if you earn tens of thousands it is peanuts if you earn millions. They will have greater flexibility on expenses that can be claimed.

    Of course there are bigger gains to be made if you enter a dodgy tax scheme, but they are being clamped down on and are expensive if you get caught out and you seem to be assuming they are all doing it
    They wouldn't go to the trouble of joining those schemes if they didn't save money.
    They join them because they think they are going to save money. Sadly for them many have found it has cost them a lot more as HMRC has disallowed them and gone back for the past tax, interest and fines.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    On topic, I understand why @TSE has exited the spreads, and I'm holding my nerve on this one.

    I think the ballot-rigging stuff has been talked up a bit too much. In reality, some states are making voting harder than usual and it will take longer to count them but I expect the final ballot to be fair.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,454
    edited October 2020
    eek said:

    kjh said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Name names, Amazon etc Fine but you are actually implying footballers Do be up front and name them.
    It is standard practice for players to have their image rights paid to a company and pay corporation tax rather than income tax.
    You clearly have little knowledge of tax. Firstly they will pay Corporation Tax, then when they pay the money out they will pay income tax either on a salary or dividend. So that means they pay more tax by doing that. They will save on NI (assume they don't pay themselves a salary over a trivial amount) and the £2000 dividend tax free band, but although that might be useful if you earn tens of thousands it is peanuts if you earn millions. They will have greater flexibility on expenses that can be claimed.

    Of course there are bigger gains to be made if you enter a dodgy tax scheme, but they are being clamped down on and are expensive if you get caught out and you seem to be assuming they are all doing it
    They wouldn't go to the trouble of joining those schemes if they didn't save money.
    Nowadays they don't save money but people don't realise that untils it's far too late.

    Now I could bore you for days about tax schemes (as they are something I'm working on given the forthcoming IR35 changes but here are two things that need to be clear).

    HMRC will chase you for the tax.
    Separately the eventual Liquidator will in all likelihood chase you for any and all money owed. For loan schemes that's usually fairly straightforward (but expensive if you argue in court). For none loan schemes various other options are available for the liquidator including a combination of Unjust Enrichment / Dishonest Assistance / Transaction at an Undervalue / Transaction to Defraud Creditors
    Despite earning far more than even well paid "normal" people, elite sports people are amongst the most likely to go bankrupt in life - the above is one of the key reasons that is the case.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    On topic, if the US election is clearly corrupt what should the UK response be? Will those who took a very strong moral stance against China do the same with the US, or will they flip to pragmatism? Or denial?

    When I hear people talk about all the values we share with the US, they cannot mean a commitment to free and fair elections or to an independent judiciary. So what are they? Unless, that is, we know longer have those values either.

    A massive superiority complex
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Name names, Amazon etc Fine but you are actually implying footballers Do be up front and name them.
    It is standard practice for players to have their image rights paid to a company and pay corporation tax rather than income tax.
    You clearly have little knowledge of tax. Firstly they will pay Corporation Tax, then when they pay the money out they will pay income tax either on a salary or dividend. So that means they pay more tax by doing that. They will save on NI (assume they don't pay themselves a salary over a trivial amount) and the £2000 dividend tax free band, but although that might be useful if you earn tens of thousands it is peanuts if you earn millions. They will have greater flexibility on expenses that can be claimed.

    Of course there are bigger gains to be made if you enter a dodgy tax scheme, but they are being clamped down on and are expensive if you get caught out and you seem to be assuming they are all doing it
    They wouldn't go to the trouble of joining those schemes if they didn't save money.
    They join them because they think they are going to save money. Sadly for them many have found it has cost them a lot more as HMRC has disallowed them and gone back for the past tax, interest and fines.
    And then the liquidator really screws them up as HMRC seeks the money from those who were part of the scheme but can't afford to pay the past tax, interest and fines.

    In a lot of ways I wish the internet hadn't appeared as I left University and I had gone down my original plan of becoming a tax accountant.
  • HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    We will be alone, but still hold all the cards. Perhaps we can play Solitaire?
    We have already agreed a trade deal with Japan
    It takes weeks for goods to travel by ship between Japan and UK. So an extra day filling out paperwork is neither nor there. France and Belgium are just a few hours away. We have a land border with Ireland.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,667
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mark Drakeford used to be a Welsh nationalist who thought trashing English only road signs was a fantastic thing to be doing'.

    The atheist, republican who was Corbyn's favoured candidate to succeed Carwyn Jones later decided that class was more important than nationality, and became a socialist and joined the Labour Party.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8876225/First-Minister-Mark-Drakeford-backs-radical-socialist-traditions.html

    Oh no! You are now quoting the Daily Mail. I think I preferred it when you quoted more reliable sources like Trafalgar!
    It is true though, at the moment while Starmer now leads UK Labour, Corbyn Labour is making a last stand in Wales under the hapless Drakeford, who supported Corbyn for the leadership even in 2015.

    Therefore I think the Tories might do better in Wales next year in the Assembly elections than they do in England in the local elections (and certainly better than in London in the Mayoral and Assembly elections).

    Indeed the Tories might find they even get a higher voteshare in Wales in the Assembly elections than they do both in England in the local elections and Scotland in the Scottish Parliament elections, that was certainly what Opinium was suggesting last night
    Ever the optimist, young HY. One major problem that you face is that the historic Conservative Party has been changed into the "Cronyism and Corruption Party". You seem to think that you are the only alternative to an incoherent Labour Party. There are other offers available, varying from one part of the country to another, as you will discover in the not too distant future.
  • kjh said:

    kjh said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Name names, Amazon etc Fine but you are actually implying footballers Do be up front and name them.
    It is standard practice for players to have their image rights paid to a company and pay corporation tax rather than income tax.
    You clearly have little knowledge of tax. Firstly they will pay Corporation Tax, then when they pay the money out they will pay income tax either on a salary or dividend. So that means they pay more tax by doing that. They will save on NI (assume they don't pay themselves a salary over a trivial amount) and the £2000 dividend tax free band, but although that might be useful if you earn tens of thousands it is peanuts if you earn millions. They will have greater flexibility on expenses that can be claimed.

    Of course there are bigger gains to be made if you enter a dodgy tax scheme, but they are being clamped down on and are expensive if you get caught out and you seem to be assuming they are all doing it
    They wouldn't go to the trouble of joining those schemes if they didn't save money.
    They join them because they think they are going to save money. Sadly for them many have found it has cost them a lot more as HMRC has disallowed them and gone back for the past tax, interest and fines.
    Has this happened with image rights? Do you have a link?

    If footballers join these schemes hoping to save money on tax and subsequently don't, I can't see how that is any morally better. It just adds incompetence on top of greed
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited October 2020
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Historic win for NDP in British Columbia. First left of centre majority in BC, and first ever 2 term NDP Premier in Canada for John Horgan.
    Interesting that the C+S partner the Greens haven't suffered, they held pretty steady, whilst the opposition Libs lost ground.
    Very similar to what happened in NZ in many ways.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/

    The NDP of course provide confidence and supply for Trudeau's Liberal government nationally so while of interest at local level in BC does not really mean much Federally, the Conservatives are only a minor force in BC regional politics but did win most seats in BC Federally last year
    Not saying it necessarily presages anything, but the parallels with NZ are quite spooky.
    Similar population. Similar government. (Both in ideology and in being in minority). Similar result.

    Ps. The Liberals in BC encompass the Conservatives. They are more than considerably to the right of Justin's Federal LPC.
    Maybe though BC is a region, New Zealand is a country.

    There is still a Conservative Party of British Columbia though it is only a minor force with most Conservative and Liberal voters at the Federal level backing the Liberals regionally against the NDP you are right
  • https://twitter.com/SelaineSaxby/status/1319755372857622528

    I feel so sorry for these poor Conservative victims. All they did was vote against feeding hungry children. And in Selaine's case berated businesses for showing compassion and charity. Someone needs to Step In and tell these monsters in the British Public to shut up. Someone well liked and respected. Like Laurence Fox.

    If these were "left-wing lawyers" you'd be demanding heads roll for an attack that legitimised bullying and risked real-life assault.

    Parliamentarians have a responsibility to use measured language toward one another, no matter how vociferous the policy differences.
    That is all true. How many of those 112 spoke out when their leader was going on about traitors or will speak out next time when it is their side who breach those principles?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    On topic, I understand why @TSE has exited the spreads, and I'm holding my nerve on this one.

    I think the ballot-rigging stuff has been talked up a bit too much. In reality, some states are making voting harder than usual and it will take longer to count them but I expect the final ballot to be fair.

    An interesting point by RCS yesterday. The US election voter participation is generally reported as percentage of adults. Apparently non-citizen adults are 14% of the US adult total.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited October 2020

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Name names, Amazon etc Fine but you are actually implying footballers Do be up front and name them.
    It is standard practice for players to have their image rights paid to a company and pay corporation tax rather than income tax.
    You clearly have little knowledge of tax. Firstly they will pay Corporation Tax, then when they pay the money out they will pay income tax either on a salary or dividend. So that means they pay more tax by doing that. They will save on NI (assume they don't pay themselves a salary over a trivial amount) and the £2000 dividend tax free band, but although that might be useful if you earn tens of thousands it is peanuts if you earn millions. They will have greater flexibility on expenses that can be claimed.

    Of course there are bigger gains to be made if you enter a dodgy tax scheme, but they are being clamped down on and are expensive if you get caught out and you seem to be assuming they are all doing it
    They wouldn't go to the trouble of joining those schemes if they didn't save money.
    They join them because they think they are going to save money. Sadly for them many have found it has cost them a lot more as HMRC has disallowed them and gone back for the past tax, interest and fines.
    Has this happened with image rights? Do you have a link?

    If footballers join these schemes hoping to save money on tax and subsequently don't, I can't see how that is any morally better. It just adds incompetence on top of greed
    You were the person who "They wouldn't go to the trouble of joining those schemes if they didn't save money."

    But a limited company owning image / personal endorsement rights isn't a tax dodge. A player will have image rights that are separate to his playing career (look at David Beckham but other less obvious examples are available) and part of those image rights will be being leased to the club while the player is a member of that team.

    And as I said before what those rights are worth is currently a matter of discussion as an awful lot of tax cases confirm.
  • https://twitter.com/SelaineSaxby/status/1319755372857622528

    I feel so sorry for these poor Conservative victims. All they did was vote against feeding hungry children. And in Selaine's case berated businesses for showing compassion and charity. Someone needs to Step In and tell these monsters in the British Public to shut up. Someone well liked and respected. Like Laurence Fox.

    If these were "left-wing lawyers" you'd be demanding heads roll for an attack that legitimised bullying and risked real-life assault.

    Parliamentarians have a responsibility to use measured language toward one another, no matter how vociferous the policy differences.
    That is all true. How many of those 112 spoke out when their leader was going on about traitors or will speak out next time when it is their side who breach those principles?

    And how many of them actually said a word when Priti Patel and Boris Johnson were using inflammatory language against lawyers?

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,997

    IshmaelZ said:

    Worldometer deaths 925/1m, second only to Peru
    Do we know if Gupta has finally accepted that her claim that probably only 100/1m infected by covid die of it and certainly no more than 1000/1m is looking somewhere quite a long way past unlikely?

    And that just maybe her inability to get journals to publish that might have been down to a disagreement with her methodology rather than a dark international conspiracy.
    Surely the Belgian figures bear that out. 925 per million is at the upper end of the scale but cases were being significantly under-reported during the spring. So it looks like the IFR is indeed between 100 and 1000 per million. Or are you misremembering Gupta's figures?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    ClippP said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mark Drakeford used to be a Welsh nationalist who thought trashing English only road signs was a fantastic thing to be doing'.

    The atheist, republican who was Corbyn's favoured candidate to succeed Carwyn Jones later decided that class was more important than nationality, and became a socialist and joined the Labour Party.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8876225/First-Minister-Mark-Drakeford-backs-radical-socialist-traditions.html

    Oh no! You are now quoting the Daily Mail. I think I preferred it when you quoted more reliable sources like Trafalgar!
    It is true though, at the moment while Starmer now leads UK Labour, Corbyn Labour is making a last stand in Wales under the hapless Drakeford, who supported Corbyn for the leadership even in 2015.

    Therefore I think the Tories might do better in Wales next year in the Assembly elections than they do in England in the local elections (and certainly better than in London in the Mayoral and Assembly elections).

    Indeed the Tories might find they even get a higher voteshare in Wales in the Assembly elections than they do both in England in the local elections and Scotland in the Scottish Parliament elections, that was certainly what Opinium was suggesting last night
    Ever the optimist, young HY. One major problem that you face is that the historic Conservative Party has been changed into the "Cronyism and Corruption Party". You seem to think that you are the only alternative to an incoherent Labour Party. There are other offers available, varying from one part of the country to another, as you will discover in the not too distant future.
    Opinium's latest voting intention figures today and details from the data tables

    UK Labour 40% Tories 38% LDs 6%

    England Labour 44% Tories 39% LDs 6%

    Scotland SNP 48% Tories 27% Labour 20% LDs 1%

    Wales Tories 40% Labour 29% Plaid 19% LDs 7%

    I rest my case

    https://www.opinium.com/resource-center/uk-voting-intention-22nd-october-2020/
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Name names, Amazon etc Fine but you are actually implying footballers Do be up front and name them.
    It is standard practice for players to have their image rights paid to a company and pay corporation tax rather than income tax.
    You clearly have little knowledge of tax. Firstly they will pay Corporation Tax, then when they pay the money out they will pay income tax either on a salary or dividend. So that means they pay more tax by doing that. They will save on NI (assume they don't pay themselves a salary over a trivial amount) and the £2000 dividend tax free band, but although that might be useful if you earn tens of thousands it is peanuts if you earn millions. They will have greater flexibility on expenses that can be claimed.

    Of course there are bigger gains to be made if you enter a dodgy tax scheme, but they are being clamped down on and are expensive if you get caught out and you seem to be assuming they are all doing it
    They wouldn't go to the trouble of joining those schemes if they didn't save money.
    They join them because they think they are going to save money. Sadly for them many have found it has cost them a lot more as HMRC has disallowed them and gone back for the past tax, interest and fines.
    Has this happened with image rights? Do you have a link?

    If footballers join these schemes hoping to save money on tax and subsequently don't, I can't see how that is any morally better. It just adds incompetence on top of greed
    I am talking about tax avoidance schemes not image rights. See eek for more detailed info.

    But you keep failing to address the question of how they are avoiding tax. You seem to think that the only tax is 19% Corporation Tax. They then have to pay Income Tax on top of that when they pay the money out of the company at the going income tax rate whether paid via dividend or salary. There are penal restrictions on taking the money via a loan so the net effect will be higher tax (true they save on NI if they don't receive any salary and true they benefit by the £2000 dividend exemption, and they have more flexible expense allowances but that is all peanuts compared to the combined Corporation/Income tax on high income)

    They still have to pay income tax on top of the corporation tax unless they leave the money in the company forever.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    IshmaelZ said:

    Worldometer deaths 925/1m, second only to Peru
    Do we know if Gupta has finally accepted that her claim that probably only 100/1m infected by covid die of it and certainly no more than 1000/1m is looking somewhere quite a long way past unlikely?

    And that just maybe her inability to get journals to publish that might have been down to a disagreement with her methodology rather than a dark international conspiracy.
    By "a disagreement with her methodology", I think you mean "reality disagreed with her methodology - and results"
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    I wonder about Afro-Americans and 'choosing to come here.' Odd thing about Obama, to my mind was his father was one of the recent, who did 'choose' to come. Michelle's ancestors didn't.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mark Drakeford used to be a Welsh nationalist who thought trashing English only road signs was a fantastic thing to be doing'.

    The atheist, republican who was Corbyn's favoured candidate to succeed Carwyn Jones later decided that class was more important than nationality, and became a socialist and joined the Labour Party.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8876225/First-Minister-Mark-Drakeford-backs-radical-socialist-traditions.html

    Oh no! You are now quoting the Daily Mail. I think I preferred it when you quoted more reliable sources like Trafalgar!
    It is true though, at the moment while Starmer now leads UK Labour, Corbyn Labour is making a last stand in Wales under the hapless Drakeford, who supported Corbyn for the leadership even in 2015.

    Therefore I think the Tories might do better in Wales next year in the Assembly elections than they do in England in the local elections (and certainly better than in London in the Mayoral and Assembly elections).

    Indeed the Tories might find they even get a higher voteshare in Wales in the Assembly elections than they do both in England in the local elections and Scotland in the Scottish Parliament elections, that was certainly what Opinium was suggesting last night
    This week has undermined the Welsh Government, make no doubt about it. However the general disgruntlement with the Westminster Conservatives shouldn't be underestimated either. There is probably a plague on both their houses as we speak.

    I suspect Johnson's descent may continue, unabated. That is not to say Welsh Labour are not inept enough not to dig their hole deeper too.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    https://twitter.com/SelaineSaxby/status/1319755372857622528

    I feel so sorry for these poor Conservative victims. All they did was vote against feeding hungry children. And in Selaine's case berated businesses for showing compassion and charity. Someone needs to Step In and tell these monsters in the British Public to shut up. Someone well liked and respected. Like Laurence Fox.

    If these were "left-wing lawyers" you'd be demanding heads roll for an attack that legitimised bullying and risked real-life assault.

    Parliamentarians have a responsibility to use measured language toward one another, no matter how vociferous the policy differences.
    What everyone seems to realise is that while these MPs are complaining about the use of a particular word within Parliament every action they are doing outside Parliament reinforces the idea that the description was highly appropriate.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    .
    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    If woke = doesn't think kids should go hungry then consider me woke.
    The families already get benefit money for food. Maybe we could do this and scrap all child benefits instead as the money obviously makes no difference to whether they get fed or not.

    The feature creep for schools is ridiculous, they should be for educating children (for free) not a social service.
    Now they have to feed kids not only during term time, but during holidays too.

    They'll have to give presents at Christmas to kids with feckless parents soon as well.
    A real Tory full of the milk of human kindness.
    A Deuteronomy 5:9 guy, I think.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    Early voting in Texas is at 76% of the 2016 vote - anyone for a bet on whether it gets to 100% by Election Day?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Next Rupert Soames will be shocked to find out water is wet.

    https://twitter.com/LeightonAndrews/status/1320290127986511877

    If only there were a super-forecaster at the heart of government who could warn of such things.......
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    edited October 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    isam said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Worldometer deaths 925/1m, second only to Peru
    And only half the country is affected by it!
    Shit that's right, isn't it? And no ground for claiming that extreme remoteness means their immune systems never really get going.
    I don't know a thing about Belgium, maybe someone who does can explain it
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    FPT - I tried to watch Borat the other night with my wife. I quit about a third of the way in, although she watched until the end.

    The original Borat was shocking, provocative, brave and fresh in 2006, but I found this one just vulgar, crude and predictable. And I went in with no expectations: I just didn't find it very funny. The slave labour/anti-Semitic/execution/caged women stuff about Kazakhstan for the first ten minutes I found embarrassing. The Bulgarian actress speaking "Kazakh" was actually speaking fluent Bulgarian. I hope this will do good things for her career, but it wasn't enough to keep me watching.

    I think it's getting a bit of a free pass as it's a hit-job on the Republicans and Trump America but would otherwise be panned. I'm sure others enjoyed it but it's not my cup of tea.
  • FPT - I tried to watch Borat the other night with my wife. I quit about a third of the way in, although she watched until the end.

    The original Borat was shocking, provocative, brave and fresh in 2006, but I found this one just vulgar, crude and predictable. And I went in with no expectations: I just didn't find it very funny. The slave labour/anti-Semitic/execution/caged women stuff about Kazakhstan for the first ten minutes I found embarrassing. The Bulgarian actress speaking "Kazakh" was actually speaking fluent Bulgarian. I hope this will do good things for her career, but it wasn't enough to keep me watching.

    I think it's getting a bit of a free pass as it's a hit-job on the Republicans and Trump America but would otherwise be panned. I'm sure others enjoyed it but it's not my cup of tea.

    Not watched it yet but imagine it would have been far better as a series of 20 mins episodes than a film. 96m is a long time for the same gags to be repeated.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019

    https://twitter.com/SelaineSaxby/status/1319755372857622528

    I feel so sorry for these poor Conservative victims. All they did was vote against feeding hungry children. And in Selaine's case berated businesses for showing compassion and charity. Someone needs to Step In and tell these monsters in the British Public to shut up. Someone well liked and respected. Like Laurence Fox.

    If these were "left-wing lawyers" you'd be demanding heads roll for an attack that legitimised bullying and risked real-life assault.

    Parliamentarians have a responsibility to use measured language toward one another, no matter how vociferous the policy differences.
    That is all true. How many of those 112 spoke out when their leader was going on about traitors or will speak out next time when it is their side who breach those principles?

    And how many of them actually said a word when Priti Patel and Boris Johnson were using inflammatory language against lawyers?

    Maybe both were wrong?

    If the best we can do is whataboutism and an eye for eye then we're heading for an unpleasant place.

    I expected a little more from you, to be honest.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    I can't understand why anyone thought the Tories were the nasty party
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Biden's campaign ads much better than Hillary's
  • Roy_G_BivRoy_G_Biv Posts: 998
    Nigelb said:

    .

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    If woke = doesn't think kids should go hungry then consider me woke.
    The families already get benefit money for food. Maybe we could do this and scrap all child benefits instead as the money obviously makes no difference to whether they get fed or not.

    The feature creep for schools is ridiculous, they should be for educating children (for free) not a social service.
    Now they have to feed kids not only during term time, but during holidays too.

    They'll have to give presents at Christmas to kids with feckless parents soon as well.
    A real Tory full of the milk of human kindness.
    A Deuteronomy 5:9 guy, I think.
    I always preferred his brother, Royce.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited October 2020

    eek said:

    kjh said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Name names, Amazon etc Fine but you are actually implying footballers Do be up front and name them.
    It is standard practice for players to have their image rights paid to a company and pay corporation tax rather than income tax.
    You clearly have little knowledge of tax. Firstly they will pay Corporation Tax, then when they pay the money out they will pay income tax either on a salary or dividend. So that means they pay more tax by doing that. They will save on NI (assume they don't pay themselves a salary over a trivial amount) and the £2000 dividend tax free band, but although that might be useful if you earn tens of thousands it is peanuts if you earn millions. They will have greater flexibility on expenses that can be claimed.

    Of course there are bigger gains to be made if you enter a dodgy tax scheme, but they are being clamped down on and are expensive if you get caught out and you seem to be assuming they are all doing it
    They wouldn't go to the trouble of joining those schemes if they didn't save money.
    Nowadays they don't save money but people don't realise that untils it's far too late.

    Now I could bore you for days about tax schemes (as they are something I'm working on given the forthcoming IR35 changes but here are two things that need to be clear).

    HMRC will chase you for the tax.
    Separately the eventual Liquidator will in all likelihood chase you for any and all money owed. For loan schemes that's usually fairly straightforward (but expensive if you argue in court). For none loan schemes various other options are available for the liquidator including a combination of Unjust Enrichment / Dishonest Assistance / Transaction at an Undervalue / Transaction to Defraud Creditors
    Despite earning far more than even well paid "normal" people, elite sports people are amongst the most likely to go bankrupt in life - the above is one of the key reasons that is the case.
    For most sports people - it's a matter of schemes (but far less likely than it used to be) and getting used to spending money which suddenly disappears.

    The best advice I give contractors was always clear debts off and don't go mad with the extra money you've got - save it for when the income isn't coming in.
  • DAlexanderDAlexander Posts: 815
    edited October 2020
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm surprised there hasn't been one already. Quite often pressure to u turn builds so quickly it happens in a couple of days, but this story has been rumbling for a week at least.
    The second they cave into this nonsense then Rashford and his woke PR agency will start on the next thing.
    Good for him then if it’s something that needs doing, why is it nonsense, just as well the world isn’t full of right wing bigots like you.
    Millionaire tax avoiders making poor workers pay more tax to give even more money to the feckless.

    You'd have to be a complete bigot not to agree with that.
    Name names, Amazon etc Fine but you are actually implying footballers Do be up front and name them.
    It is standard practice for players to have their image rights paid to a company and pay corporation tax rather than income tax.
    You clearly have little knowledge of tax. Firstly they will pay Corporation Tax, then when they pay the money out they will pay income tax either on a salary or dividend. So that means they pay more tax by doing that. They will save on NI (assume they don't pay themselves a salary over a trivial amount) and the £2000 dividend tax free band, but although that might be useful if you earn tens of thousands it is peanuts if you earn millions. They will have greater flexibility on expenses that can be claimed.

    Of course there are bigger gains to be made if you enter a dodgy tax scheme, but they are being clamped down on and are expensive if you get caught out and you seem to be assuming they are all doing it
    They wouldn't go to the trouble of joining those schemes if they didn't save money.
    They join them because they think they are going to save money. Sadly for them many have found it has cost them a lot more as HMRC has disallowed them and gone back for the past tax, interest and fines.
    Has this happened with image rights? Do you have a link?

    If footballers join these schemes hoping to save money on tax and subsequently don't, I can't see how that is any morally better. It just adds incompetence on top of greed
    I am talking about tax avoidance schemes not image rights. See eek for more detailed info.

    But you keep failing to address the question of how they are avoiding tax. You seem to think that the only tax is 19% Corporation Tax. They then have to pay Income Tax on top of that when they pay the money out of the company at the going income tax rate whether paid via dividend or salary. There are penal restrictions on taking the money via a loan so the net effect will be higher tax (true they save on NI if they don't receive any salary and true they benefit by the £2000 dividend exemption, and they have more flexible expense allowances but that is all peanuts compared to the combined Corporation/Income tax on high income)

    They still have to pay income tax on top of the corporation tax unless they leave the money in the company forever.

    Well I'm going off what has been reported on HMRC investigating the use of image rights, for example:
    Image rights, a tool used by clubs and players to avoid paying employment tax, has been extensively used in football.

    The financial incentive for players to create their own Image Rights Company (IRC) is it could save them millions in tax.

    Clubs can pay a player's IRC as part of their wages and they would be liable for 19% corporation tax rather than 45% as an employee. That represents a saving to the player of £26,000 on every £100,000."
    https://www.itv.com/news/2019-01-21/record-number-of-footballers-under-investigation-by-hmrc-over-tax-avoidance
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    eek said:

    https://twitter.com/SelaineSaxby/status/1319755372857622528

    I feel so sorry for these poor Conservative victims. All they did was vote against feeding hungry children. And in Selaine's case berated businesses for showing compassion and charity. Someone needs to Step In and tell these monsters in the British Public to shut up. Someone well liked and respected. Like Laurence Fox.

    If these were "left-wing lawyers" you'd be demanding heads roll for an attack that legitimised bullying and risked real-life assault.

    Parliamentarians have a responsibility to use measured language toward one another, no matter how vociferous the policy differences.
    What everyone seems to realise is that while these MPs are complaining about the use of a particular word within Parliament every action they are doing outside Parliament reinforces the idea that the description was highly appropriate.
    I rather fancy you'd feel differently about it if it was you and your family at risk, or those who worked for you.

    MPs have been badly assaulted in the past, and many more regularly receive death-threats.

    I happen to think the Government has got it wrong on free-school meals but Angela Rayner's language was disgraceful.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2020
    ** Betting Post **

    I'm examining this in greater detail but I think people are sleeping on Iowa as a Dem pickup.

    1) History - Gore won it, Kerry lost it by 0.67%, Obama won it in 2008 and 2012. Clinton cratered the vote in losing to Trump. People act like Iowa is safe GOP but it's recent history is anything but.

    2) State polling - Biden currently has the lead with both 538 and RCP (so totally definitive)

    3) Congressional Polling - in 2016 the GOP won 3 of the 4 seats. By +7, +14 and +22, the Dems taking their seat by +7

    In the midterms the Dems took 3 seats by +5, +12 and +2. the GOP held their only seat by just 3 points, down from that +22 in 2016.

    Yada yada, midterms don't mean jack shit, yadda yadda.

    But the current polling is eye popping - Monmouth is giving the Dems wins in the same 3 CDs by +8, +6 and +9 using the worst turnout model - if you use the most optimistic then they have double digit leads in all the CDs they are winning. In the GOP CD the Republicans are only winning by +6 on the best possible turnout model.

    I've neve given much credence to CD polling before (treating it much like Constituency polls in the UK) but there is a suggestion that I am chasing down that the 2016 Congressional District polling was disconnected from the state polling and that it showed Trump doing well where it counted.
  • Cyclefree said:


    Next Rupert Soames will be shocked to find out water is wet.

    https://twitter.com/LeightonAndrews/status/1320290127986511877

    If only there were a super-forecaster at the heart of government who could warn of such things.......
    How much planning does anything think the government are doing on what to do when students next return in January?

    Hopefully there are loads of ideas that have already been discussed by the DfE, universities, public health and NUS and we are close to a plan that will make it far less of an issue next time.

    Sadly, I wouldnt be surprised if literally zero attention to this question has been given at ministerial level and above.

    It is a government that only reacts, never leads.
  • https://twitter.com/SelaineSaxby/status/1319755372857622528

    I feel so sorry for these poor Conservative victims. All they did was vote against feeding hungry children. And in Selaine's case berated businesses for showing compassion and charity. Someone needs to Step In and tell these monsters in the British Public to shut up. Someone well liked and respected. Like Laurence Fox.

    If these were "left-wing lawyers" you'd be demanding heads roll for an attack that legitimised bullying and risked real-life assault.

    Parliamentarians have a responsibility to use measured language toward one another, no matter how vociferous the policy differences.
    That is all true. How many of those 112 spoke out when their leader was going on about traitors or will speak out next time when it is their side who breach those principles?

    And how many of them actually said a word when Priti Patel and Boris Johnson were using inflammatory language against lawyers?

    Maybe both were wrong?

    If the best we can do is whataboutism and an eye for eye then we're heading for an unpleasant place.

    I expected a little more from you, to be honest.

    It's not whataboutism, it is pointing out that enraged Tory MPs are seeking to score political points. They are absolutely fine with their own side doing what they accuse others of. What's more, Patel did it in the knowledge that there had already been attacks on law firms by far right extremists. She didn't care. And not a single Tory MP called her out for it.

  • Cyclefree said:


    Next Rupert Soames will be shocked to find out water is wet.

    https://twitter.com/LeightonAndrews/status/1320290127986511877

    If only there were a super-forecaster at the heart of government who could warn of such things.......

    I wonder how far Rupert Soames would have got in life if his Dad had not been a Tory cabinet minister and his Grandad Winston Churchill.

This discussion has been closed.