A problem about enforcement remains Johnson’s failure to do anything about the Cummings lockdown bre
Comments
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Sounds like a solution.FF43 said:
I don't disagree with any of that. Hume is one of the world's great philosophers and everyone should read him. The question is a twenty first century one of whether rightly multicultural institutions should optionally name buildings after racists. It is different from Melville's Column previously mentioned. The guy's on top of that pillar, you can't pretend it's someone else. David Hume Tower is one of the better 1960's constructions that desecrated the rather elegant 18th C George Square. It would be called Coca Cola Tower if they stumped up enough cash....Richard_Nabavi said:
What's problematic about it? Are we such snowflakes that we can't understand that attitudes in 1750 were very different from what we regard as acceptable today? No doubt they would find our attitudes and behaviour thoroughly reprehensible, come to that. None of that means that Hume wasn't a really major figure in the Scottish Enlightenment.FF43 said:
That's what I thought. But this is problematic:Richard_Nabavi said:
Given that David Hume was one of the greatest figures of the Scottish Enlightenment, I'd have thought Scottish institutions should be naming new buildings after him, not removing his name from existing ones, given the astonishing degree of ignorance there seems to be about him.OnlyLivingBoy said:
As far as I know the NT isn't proposing to rename any of their properties, they simply want to provide more information to visitors, which seems about as far from "rewriting history" as it's possible to be. I'm not qualified to talk about the example you give since the only thing I know about Hume is his role in developing the quantity theory of money. Mind you, I think there is a difference between naming a building after somebody and simply having the building go by its street address, since the name of the street is outwith their control, and in any case who knows which George is being referred to? Could be George Clooney.
I am apt to suspect the Negroes to be naturally inferior to the Whites. There never was a civilized nation of any other complexion than white, nor even any individual eminent either in action or speculation. No ingenious manufacturer amongst them, no arts, no sciences. On the other hand, the most rude and barbarous of the Whites, such as the ancient German, the present Tartars, still have something eminent about them, in their valor, form of government, or some other particular. Such a uniform and constant difference could not happen in so many countries and ages, if nature had not made an original distinction betwixt these breeds of men. Not to mention our colonies, there are Negro slaves dispersed all over Europe, of whom none ever discovered any symptoms of ingenuity; though low people, without education, will start up amongst us, and distinguish themselves in every profession. In Jamaica, indeed, they talk of one Negro as a man of parts and learning; but it is likely he is admired for slender accomplishments, like a parrot who speaks a few words plainly.
What's particularly irrational about this whole debate is that, if it wasn't for the Enlightenment, and the progress attributable to people like Hume, the world wouldn't have the notions of equality, human rights, democracy, fair courts, the rule of law, and all those other values by which these people are being measured.1 -
Surely that admission is a ban from PB....kinabalu said:
I find it cloying. But I'm a budget wine drinker. Perhaps if I was prepared to go above £4.95.Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.1 -
As for your latter point, that would be a breach of contract.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up1 -
You don't need to ponder, it's all well documented in the history books. You might need to ponder a bit more about what the slave-owning and slave-trading Ashanti and Benin peoples believed in the 18th century, but I'm pretty certain it wouldn't have been entirely Woke.kinabalu said:
It's interesting to ponder what the unenlightened believed about race back then.1 -
Ivanka to be a SC judge for twenty years then?Nigelb said:
A twenty year term limit would fix that.CarlottaVance said:
Imposed by an incoming Democratic Congress, it would still allow a 5-4 Republican Court led by Roberts for the entire term of the next Presidency, so would be an entirely even handed reform.0 -
It's rather that there's a genetic disposition to find it has a soapy taste:Richard_Nabavi said:
There are a lot of over-blown Chardonnays. Anything cheap from Australia, for example. But a fine steely Chablis...Nigelb said:
There must be an awful lot of the wrong sort, then.Richard_Nabavi said:
I think you've been drinking the wrong Chardonnays!Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.
I think it's more likely something along the lines of the coriander phenomenon (a similarly loathsome taste for me).
I understand your loathing of coriander. It has a very strong taste and smell, which can be disagreeable if over-used.
https://www.nature.com/news/soapy-taste-of-coriander-linked-to-genetic-variants-1.11398
I'm wondering if something similar is going on with chardonnays.0 -
Chelsea have spent over £200 million this summer on transfer fees alone, which obviously doesn't take into account the £10 millions each player contract will be worth.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up
These days even free can be very expensive e.g. it is believed Bale loan to Spurs is costing about £20 million for the season.0 -
Could be.Nigelb said:
It's rather that there's a genetic disposition to find it has a soapy taste:
https://www.nature.com/news/soapy-taste-of-coriander-linked-to-genetic-variants-1.11398
I'm wondering if something similar is going on with chardonnays.0 -
Better for the Dems to introduce term limits. It is absurd for an 87 year old to die in harness.MikeL said:Before every single Presidential election we are always told it may decide Supreme Court for a generation.
The reality is you never know. Unexpected things can happen.
Thomas is 72, Alito 70, Roberts 65 - sure they may well all go on another 10+ years but it's far from certain - if the Democrats now get two terms they might replace two of them.
Plus you have Roberts being more centrist on some issues.
Finally with religion in steep decline, even from a high base, it's not going to be tenable for the Supreme Court to push things too far.0 -
Yes good point. Plenty on the Goldman floor like nothing better than a glass of red from a Stowell's of Chelsea wine box after a hard day's graft.kinabalu said:
I find it cloying. But I'm a budget wine drinker. Perhaps if I was prepared to go above £4.95.Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.0 -
Fair comment. But coming from such a progressive figure of the time the quote does illustrate how deeply embedded racism was in Britain not so long ago in the grand scheme of things, and thus how hopelessly naive or complacent it is to think that the legacy of this does not persist in us today.MaxPB said:
And? We shouldn't judge what people said in the 18th century by today's standards. It was a different era, I'm sure if they could see how we live they'd find us all to be awful too.FF43 said:
That's what I thought. But this is problematic:Richard_Nabavi said:
Given that David Hume was one of the greatest figures of the Scottish Enlightenment, I'd have thought Scottish institutions should be naming new buildings after him, not removing his name from existing ones, given the astonishing degree of ignorance there seems to be about him.OnlyLivingBoy said:
As far as I know the NT isn't proposing to rename any of their properties, they simply want to provide more information to visitors, which seems about as far from "rewriting history" as it's possible to be. I'm not qualified to talk about the example you give since the only thing I know about Hume is his role in developing the quantity theory of money. Mind you, I think there is a difference between naming a building after somebody and simply having the building go by its street address, since the name of the street is outwith their control, and in any case who knows which George is being referred to? Could be George Clooney.
I am apt to suspect the Negroes to be naturally inferior to the Whites. There never was a civilized nation of any other complexion than white, nor even any individual eminent either in action or speculation. No ingenious manufacturer amongst them, no arts, no sciences. On the other hand, the most rude and barbarous of the Whites, such as the ancient German, the present Tartars, still have something eminent about them, in their valor, form of government, or some other particular. Such a uniform and constant difference could not happen in so many countries and ages, if nature had not made an original distinction betwixt these breeds of men. Not to mention our colonies, there are Negro slaves dispersed all over Europe, of whom none ever discovered any symptoms of ingenuity; though low people, without education, will start up amongst us, and distinguish themselves in every profession. In Jamaica, indeed, they talk of one Negro as a man of parts and learning; but it is likely he is admired for slender accomplishments, like a parrot who speaks a few words plainly.0 -
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up0 -
In Britain as opposed to where?kinabalu said:
Fair comment. But coming from such a progressive figure of the time the quote does illustrate how deeply embedded racism was in Britain not so long ago in the grand scheme of things, and thus how hopelessly naive or complacent it is to think that the legacy of this does not persist in us today.2 -
Not fair enough for Merrick Garland.Richard_Nabavi said:Romney's statement is very carefully worded. He is not committing to supporting whoever Trump might nominate; instead, he's committing only to decide on the basis of the merits of the candidate, which is fair enough.
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Can anyone seriously support financial aid to the Premier leagueTheScreamingEagles said:
As for your latter point, that would be a breach of contract.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up1 -
I presume he meant per glass. But even so...FrancisUrquhart said:
Surely that admission is a ban from PB....kinabalu said:
I find it cloying. But I'm a budget wine drinker. Perhaps if I was prepared to go above £4.95.Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.0 -
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up0 -
I thought we were all about state aid these days?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Can anyone seriously support financial aid to the Premier leagueTheScreamingEagles said:
As for your latter point, that would be a breach of contract.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up0 -
Yes, you forget the economic benefits that football clubs give to their cities and regions.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Can anyone seriously support financial aid to the Premier leagueTheScreamingEagles said:
As for your latter point, that would be a breach of contract.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up
I suspect they'll end up doing a Spain, where the loans are repaid once the stadiums re-open, also for every transfer fee the club pays, they have to repay the government the equivalent amount.
The Bank of England gave Spurs a £175 million loan recently.
Everton were given a £ 300 million pound loan by the council for the new stadium.
Boris Johnson effectively wasted £323 million quid on giving West Ham their new stadium.1 -
The views of hundreds of millions of Muslims, today, are very very far from Woke. Yet, curiously, they go unscrutinized.Richard_Nabavi said:
You don't need to ponder, it's all well documented in the history books. You might need to ponder a bit more about what the slave-owning and slave-trading Ashanti and Benin peoples believed in the 18th century, but I'm pretty certain it wouldn't have been entirely Woke.kinabalu said:
It's interesting to ponder what the unenlightened believed about race back then.2 -
Even a small club like Everton brings one billion pound boost to the local area, clubs benefit the wider community.0
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Yep. This is it. For another GE win he is relying on the British people to either be (i) too dumb to spot this or (ii) too shallow to care about it. I think he's wrong. I think he'll be turfed out if he runs again. Like with Trump there is a limit to how much you can bullshit people. No 2nd term for either of these gentlemen.IanB2 said:
He comes across as a man who senses that he is losing, but isn’t quite sure to whom. It isn’t the virus, nor is it the opposition. He is being beaten by his own unfitness to do the job, and there is no campaign to remedy that.Scott_xP said:1 -
No, it’s wot I said above. Lees contact.Richard_Nabavi said:
Could be.Nigelb said:
It's rather that there's a genetic disposition to find it has a soapy taste:
https://www.nature.com/news/soapy-taste-of-coriander-linked-to-genetic-variants-1.11398
I'm wondering if something similar is going on with chardonnays.0 -
The Government via the Bank of England gave Spurs a £175 million loan in the summer, did you object then?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up0 -
Am told by a friend it goes quite well with pineapple-topped pizza, but of course I wouldn't know myself...DavidL said:
I presume he meant per glass. But even so...FrancisUrquhart said:
Surely that admission is a ban from PB....kinabalu said:
I find it cloying. But I'm a budget wine drinker. Perhaps if I was prepared to go above £4.95.Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.1 -
I did not know that but on the wider issue of giving 100 million a month to the Premier league in this pandemic would be just wrong with so much need elsewhereTheScreamingEagles said:
The Government via the Bank of England gave Spurs a £175 million loan in the summer, did you object then?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up1 -
Agree. It's bonkers.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Can anyone seriously support financial aid to the Premier leagueTheScreamingEagles said:
As for your latter point, that would be a breach of contract.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up2 -
Depends. If the Government through the BOE is positioned to make a significant profit on the loan via interest, why shouldn't we make such an investment?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I did not know that but on the wider issue of giving 100 million a month to the Premier league in this pandemic would be just wrong with so much need elsewhereTheScreamingEagles said:
The Government via the Bank of England gave Spurs a £175 million loan in the summer, did you object then?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up0 -
It's not a huge number tbh.TheScreamingEagles said:
Isn't that slightly misleading as we include the antibody testing in our figures, which in managing a pandemic/exponential growth therein isn't useful.FrancisUrquhart said:Between 9 March and 6 September, its data shows:
the UK did more than 16.4m tests
Germany did 13.3m tests
Italy did 8.8m tests
France did 8.3m tests
On testing relative to the size of a country's population, the UK ranks highly (over the same period): the UK did 246 tests for every 1,000 people compared with Germany which tested 160 per 1,0000 -
Surely we have no idea if we are comparing like with like. For a start, it's number of tests, not number of people tested; our data is full of repeat tests, maybe other countries aren't. Secondly, we don't know the criteria for getting a test. There's evidence here that children with colds are being tested, and it's very easy to state you have the necessary symptoms on the application of the website. Perhaps some other countries are more stringent and only testing those who have clear Covid symptoms. Didn't I read somewhere that in one country (France?) your GP had to approve a test.FrancisUrquhart said:Between 9 March and 6 September, its data shows:
the UK did more than 16.4m tests
Germany did 13.3m tests
Italy did 8.8m tests
France did 8.3m tests
On testing relative to the size of a country's population, the UK ranks highly (over the same period): the UK did 246 tests for every 1,000 people compared with Germany which tested 160 per 1,000
What's France's excuse for doing so few tests?
So we may be doing really well compared to others, we may not be. I politely suggest that we really don't have a clue.1 -
If you pay £4.95 for wine, £2.30 of that will be tax, and another £2 will be the cost of packaging, shipping, marketing. You are actually buying a bottle of wine worth about 27 pence.kinabalu said:
I find it cloying. But I'm a budget wine drinker. Perhaps if I was prepared to go above £4.95.Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.
Unsurprisingly, this wine will not be very good. It will be plonk. Better plonk that you got 30 years ago, thanks to the industralised wineries of the New World, but still plonk.
The sweet spot for value is about £15-£20. A bottle that costs £20 will be four times as expensive as yours, but the value of the wine itself will be 22 times higher. This is reflected in the taste.
Go above £40 and you are paying mostly for rarity and prestige, which is fairly pointless, tho appealing to some.0 -
It is just wrong and unjustifiedGallowgate said:
Depends. If the Government through the BOE is positioned to make a significant profit on the loan via interest, why shouldn't we make such an investment?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I did not know that but on the wider issue of giving 100 million a month to the Premier league in this pandemic would be just wrong with so much need elsewhereTheScreamingEagles said:
The Government via the Bank of England gave Spurs a £175 million loan in the summer, did you object then?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up1 -
If the Prem have got their hands out for money, goodness knows what state the clubs down the pyramid are in.
How much more money does Sunak have left to give? Why isn;t he giving it?0 -
Len McCluskey has obviously joined Kanye West’s campaign team.
https://twitter.com/kanyewest/status/1308443797802508290?s=210 -
But this is a building not a statue. If you're going to have a plaque saying "Hume Tower" and then another pointing out that Hume was a bit of a racist and explaining the context, it might just be easier to rename it.LadyG said:
That looks extremely grisly and repellent to modern eyes, but the painful fact is that this was received opinion amongst the educated (and maybe uneducated) classes right across Europe, at that time.FF43 said:
That's what I thought. But this is problematic:Richard_Nabavi said:
Given that David Hume was one of the greatest figures of the Scottish Enlightenment, I'd have thought Scottish institutions should be naming new buildings after him, not removing his name from existing ones, given the astonishing degree of ignorance there seems to be about him.OnlyLivingBoy said:
As far as I know the NT isn't proposing to rename any of their properties, they simply want to provide more information to visitors, which seems about as far from "rewriting history" as it's possible to be. I'm not qualified to talk about the example you give since the only thing I know about Hume is his role in developing the quantity theory of money. Mind you, I think there is a difference between naming a building after somebody and simply having the building go by its street address, since the name of the street is outwith their control, and in any case who knows which George is being referred to? Could be George Clooney.
I am apt to suspect the Negroes to be naturally inferior to the Whites. There never was a civilized nation of any other complexion than white, nor even any individual eminent either in action or speculation. No ingenious manufacturer amongst them, no arts, no sciences. On the other hand, the most rude and barbarous of the Whites, such as the ancient German, the present Tartars, still have something eminent about them, in their valor, form of government, or some other particular. Such a uniform and constant difference could not happen in so many countries and ages, if nature had not made an original distinction betwixt these breeds of men. Not to mention our colonies, there are Negro slaves dispersed all over Europe, of whom none ever discovered any symptoms of ingenuity; though low people, without education, will start up amongst us, and distinguish themselves in every profession. In Jamaica, indeed, they talk of one Negro as a man of parts and learning; but it is likely he is admired for slender accomplishments, like a parrot who speaks a few words plainly.
Anyone who didn't think like this was the exception. And they are rare.
So you either tear down every statue or you put them in context. The latter is surely better.
This is a difficult one for me, I certainly understand the different standards/different times argument and that Hume was a noteworthy man, but I also understand that a black student or staff member may feel uncomfortable working in a building named after somebody who thought they were an inferior kind of human being, or might wonder about the attitude of the University to these issues. Of course many might be totally fine about it, but I don't think I'm the right person to make that call and I think it is important that elite institutions like universities do their best to remove barriers to underrepresented groups.2 -
Do you think Furlouggh should be extended? do you think we have the money?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is just wrong and unjustifiedGallowgate said:
Depends. If the Government through the BOE is positioned to make a significant profit on the loan via interest, why shouldn't we make such an investment?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I did not know that but on the wider issue of giving 100 million a month to the Premier league in this pandemic would be just wrong with so much need elsewhereTheScreamingEagles said:
The Government via the Bank of England gave Spurs a £175 million loan in the summer, did you object then?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up0 -
A touch hyperbolic. The SC is very important but it does not govern America. Not even close. Plus if a crazily Con judge is rammed through now for a 6/3 bias the Dems will mitigate either with term limits or expansion of the court from 9 to 11.CarlottaVance said:0 -
To a certain extent the lower league clubs are in a better position as they're all in it together and don't have players on three-year contracts. In the PL and Championship, the differences between those in a good position and those who have gambled will be larger.contrarian said:If the Prem have got their hands out for money, goodness knows what state the clubs down the pyramid are in.
How much more money does Sunak have left to give? Why isn;t he giving it?0 -
The government is preventing the clubs from functioning. There is therefore an argument that they should receive financial aid from the government. Just like your local pub did when it was told it couldn't open.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up1 -
Being woke has never had anything to do with logic or facts.LadyG said:
The views of hundreds of millions of Muslims, today, are very very far from Woke. Yet, curiously, they go unscrutinized.Richard_Nabavi said:
You don't need to ponder, it's all well documented in the history books. You might need to ponder a bit more about what the slave-owning and slave-trading Ashanti and Benin peoples believed in the 18th century, but I'm pretty certain it wouldn't have been entirely Woke.kinabalu said:
It's interesting to ponder what the unenlightened believed about race back then.2 -
How many unis are going bust without a bail out?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
You mean everywhere in the "civilised" world. Britain was hardly alone in this.kinabalu said:
Fair comment. But coming from such a progressive figure of the time the quote does illustrate how deeply embedded racism was in Britain not so long ago in the grand scheme of things, and thus how hopelessly naive or complacent it is to think that the legacy of this does not persist in us today.MaxPB said:
And? We shouldn't judge what people said in the 18th century by today's standards. It was a different era, I'm sure if they could see how we live they'd find us all to be awful too.FF43 said:
That's what I thought. But this is problematic:Richard_Nabavi said:
Given that David Hume was one of the greatest figures of the Scottish Enlightenment, I'd have thought Scottish institutions should be naming new buildings after him, not removing his name from existing ones, given the astonishing degree of ignorance there seems to be about him.OnlyLivingBoy said:
As far as I know the NT isn't proposing to rename any of their properties, they simply want to provide more information to visitors, which seems about as far from "rewriting history" as it's possible to be. I'm not qualified to talk about the example you give since the only thing I know about Hume is his role in developing the quantity theory of money. Mind you, I think there is a difference between naming a building after somebody and simply having the building go by its street address, since the name of the street is outwith their control, and in any case who knows which George is being referred to? Could be George Clooney.
I am apt to suspect the Negroes to be naturally inferior to the Whites. There never was a civilized nation of any other complexion than white, nor even any individual eminent either in action or speculation. No ingenious manufacturer amongst them, no arts, no sciences. On the other hand, the most rude and barbarous of the Whites, such as the ancient German, the present Tartars, still have something eminent about them, in their valor, form of government, or some other particular. Such a uniform and constant difference could not happen in so many countries and ages, if nature had not made an original distinction betwixt these breeds of men. Not to mention our colonies, there are Negro slaves dispersed all over Europe, of whom none ever discovered any symptoms of ingenuity; though low people, without education, will start up amongst us, and distinguish themselves in every profession. In Jamaica, indeed, they talk of one Negro as a man of parts and learning; but it is likely he is admired for slender accomplishments, like a parrot who speaks a few words plainly.1 -
What about a gay student being taught by a devout, conservative Muslim lecturer? The student will know that the Muslim teacher finds him abhorrent and perverse and deserving of severe punishment, just for what he is - gay - the same way a black student would find a far right racist teacher offensive.OnlyLivingBoy said:
But this is a building not a statue. If you're going to have a plaque saying "Hume Tower" and then another pointing out that Hume was a bit of a racist and explaining the context, it might just be easier to rename it.LadyG said:
That looks extremely grisly and repellent to modern eyes, but the painful fact is that this was received opinion amongst the educated (and maybe uneducated) classes right across Europe, at that time.FF43 said:
That's what I thought. But this is problematic:Richard_Nabavi said:
Given that David Hume was one of the greatest figures of the Scottish Enlightenment, I'd have thought Scottish institutions should be naming new buildings after him, not removing his name from existing ones, given the astonishing degree of ignorance there seems to be about him.OnlyLivingBoy said:
As far as I know the NT isn't proposing to rename any of their properties, they simply want to provide more information to visitors, which seems about as far from "rewriting history" as it's possible to be. I'm not qualified to talk about the example you give since the only thing I know about Hume is his role in developing the quantity theory of money. Mind you, I think there is a difference between naming a building after somebody and simply having the building go by its street address, since the name of the street is outwith their control, and in any case who knows which George is being referred to? Could be George Clooney.
I am apt to suspect the Negroes to be naturally inferior to the Whites. There never was a civilized nation of any other complexion than white, nor even any individual eminent either in action or speculation. No ingenious manufacturer amongst them, no arts, no sciences. On the other hand, the most rude and barbarous of the Whites, such as the ancient German, the present Tartars, still have something eminent about them, in their valor, form of government, or some other particular. Such a uniform and constant difference could not happen in so many countries and ages, if nature had not made an original distinction betwixt these breeds of men. Not to mention our colonies, there are Negro slaves dispersed all over Europe, of whom none ever discovered any symptoms of ingenuity; though low people, without education, will start up amongst us, and distinguish themselves in every profession. In Jamaica, indeed, they talk of one Negro as a man of parts and learning; but it is likely he is admired for slender accomplishments, like a parrot who speaks a few words plainly.
Anyone who didn't think like this was the exception. And they are rare.
So you either tear down every statue or you put them in context. The latter is surely better.
This is a difficult one for me, I certainly understand the different standards/different times argument and that Hume was a noteworthy man, but I also understand that a black student or staff member may feel uncomfortable working in a building named after somebody who thought they were an inferior kind of human being, or might wonder about the attitude of the University to these issues. Of course many might be totally fine about it, but I don't think I'm the right person to make that call and I think it is important that elite institutions like universities do their best to remove barriers to underrepresented groups.
You either police all of history and thought, or you generally have to accept it, warts and all.0 -
Irn-Bru surely.Nigelb said:
Sounds like a solution.FF43 said:
I don't disagree with any of that. Hume is one of the world's great philosophers and everyone should read him. The question is a twenty first century one of whether rightly multicultural institutions should optionally name buildings after racists. It is different from Melville's Column previously mentioned. The guy's on top of that pillar, you can't pretend it's someone else. David Hume Tower is one of the better 1960's constructions that desecrated the rather elegant 18th C George Square. It would be called Coca Cola Tower if they stumped up enough cash....Richard_Nabavi said:
What's problematic about it? Are we such snowflakes that we can't understand that attitudes in 1750 were very different from what we regard as acceptable today? No doubt they would find our attitudes and behaviour thoroughly reprehensible, come to that. None of that means that Hume wasn't a really major figure in the Scottish Enlightenment.FF43 said:
That's what I thought. But this is problematic:Richard_Nabavi said:
Given that David Hume was one of the greatest figures of the Scottish Enlightenment, I'd have thought Scottish institutions should be naming new buildings after him, not removing his name from existing ones, given the astonishing degree of ignorance there seems to be about him.OnlyLivingBoy said:
As far as I know the NT isn't proposing to rename any of their properties, they simply want to provide more information to visitors, which seems about as far from "rewriting history" as it's possible to be. I'm not qualified to talk about the example you give since the only thing I know about Hume is his role in developing the quantity theory of money. Mind you, I think there is a difference between naming a building after somebody and simply having the building go by its street address, since the name of the street is outwith their control, and in any case who knows which George is being referred to? Could be George Clooney.
I am apt to suspect the Negroes to be naturally inferior to the Whites. There never was a civilized nation of any other complexion than white, nor even any individual eminent either in action or speculation. No ingenious manufacturer amongst them, no arts, no sciences. On the other hand, the most rude and barbarous of the Whites, such as the ancient German, the present Tartars, still have something eminent about them, in their valor, form of government, or some other particular. Such a uniform and constant difference could not happen in so many countries and ages, if nature had not made an original distinction betwixt these breeds of men. Not to mention our colonies, there are Negro slaves dispersed all over Europe, of whom none ever discovered any symptoms of ingenuity; though low people, without education, will start up amongst us, and distinguish themselves in every profession. In Jamaica, indeed, they talk of one Negro as a man of parts and learning; but it is likely he is admired for slender accomplishments, like a parrot who speaks a few words plainly.
What's particularly irrational about this whole debate is that, if it wasn't for the Enlightenment, and the progress attributable to people like Hume, the world wouldn't have the notions of equality, human rights, democracy, fair courts, the rule of law, and all those other values by which these people are being measured.0 -
I am not convinced about extending furlough but money is at a premium and must be allocated to those in most need and that does not include the premier leaguecontrarian said:
Do you think Furlouggh should be extended? do you think we have the money?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is just wrong and unjustifiedGallowgate said:
Depends. If the Government through the BOE is positioned to make a significant profit on the loan via interest, why shouldn't we make such an investment?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I did not know that but on the wider issue of giving 100 million a month to the Premier league in this pandemic would be just wrong with so much need elsewhereTheScreamingEagles said:
The Government via the Bank of England gave Spurs a £175 million loan in the summer, did you object then?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up0 -
If you follow that logic, you'd have to remove almost all the historical names from monuments, buildings, and foundations, because it's a virtual certainty that any given historical figure held some view or another that goes against the 2020 standard of wokeness. It's a destructive Year Zero mentality, nothing more.OnlyLivingBoy said:
But this is a building not a statue. If you're going to have a plaque saying "Hume Tower" and then another pointing out that Hume was a bit of a racist and explaining the context, it might just be easier to rename it.LadyG said:
That looks extremely grisly and repellent to modern eyes, but the painful fact is that this was received opinion amongst the educated (and maybe uneducated) classes right across Europe, at that time.FF43 said:
That's what I thought. But this is problematic:Richard_Nabavi said:
Given that David Hume was one of the greatest figures of the Scottish Enlightenment, I'd have thought Scottish institutions should be naming new buildings after him, not removing his name from existing ones, given the astonishing degree of ignorance there seems to be about him.OnlyLivingBoy said:
As far as I know the NT isn't proposing to rename any of their properties, they simply want to provide more information to visitors, which seems about as far from "rewriting history" as it's possible to be. I'm not qualified to talk about the example you give since the only thing I know about Hume is his role in developing the quantity theory of money. Mind you, I think there is a difference between naming a building after somebody and simply having the building go by its street address, since the name of the street is outwith their control, and in any case who knows which George is being referred to? Could be George Clooney.
I am apt to suspect the Negroes to be naturally inferior to the Whites. There never was a civilized nation of any other complexion than white, nor even any individual eminent either in action or speculation. No ingenious manufacturer amongst them, no arts, no sciences. On the other hand, the most rude and barbarous of the Whites, such as the ancient German, the present Tartars, still have something eminent about them, in their valor, form of government, or some other particular. Such a uniform and constant difference could not happen in so many countries and ages, if nature had not made an original distinction betwixt these breeds of men. Not to mention our colonies, there are Negro slaves dispersed all over Europe, of whom none ever discovered any symptoms of ingenuity; though low people, without education, will start up amongst us, and distinguish themselves in every profession. In Jamaica, indeed, they talk of one Negro as a man of parts and learning; but it is likely he is admired for slender accomplishments, like a parrot who speaks a few words plainly.
Anyone who didn't think like this was the exception. And they are rare.
So you either tear down every statue or you put them in context. The latter is surely better.
This is a difficult one for me, I certainly understand the different standards/different times argument and that Hume was a noteworthy man, but I also understand that a black student or staff member may feel uncomfortable working in a building named after somebody who thought they were an inferior kind of human being, or might wonder about the attitude of the University to these issues. Of course many might be totally fine about it, but I don't think I'm the right person to make that call and I think it is important that elite institutions like universities do their best to remove barriers to underrepresented groups.1 -
That's a good point. If a largely secular country is hamstrung by an ultra-conservative SC, the voters will let their feelings be known.MikeL said:Before every single Presidential election we are always told it may decide Supreme Court for a generation.
The reality is you never know. Unexpected things can happen.
Thomas is 72, Alito 70, Roberts 65 - sure they may well all go on another 10+ years but it's far from certain - if the Democrats now get two terms they might replace two of them.
Plus you have Roberts being more centrist on some issues.
Finally with religion in steep decline, even from a high base, it's not going to be tenable for the Supreme Court to push things too far.0 -
Oh god we've had this conversation before and you embarrassed yourself then.LadyG said:
If you pay £4.95 for wine, £2.30 of that will be tax, and another £2 will be the cost of packaging, shipping, marketing. You are actually buying a bottle of wine worth about 27 pence.kinabalu said:
I find it cloying. But I'm a budget wine drinker. Perhaps if I was prepared to go above £4.95.Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.
Unsurprisingly, this wine will not be very good. It will be plonk. Better plonk that you got 30 years ago, thanks to the industralised wineries of the New World, but still plonk.
The sweet spot for value is about £15-£20. A bottle that costs £20 will be four times as expensive as yours, but the value of the wine itself will be 22 times higher. This is reflected in the taste.
Go above £40 and you are paying mostly for rarity and prestige, which is fairly pointless, tho appealing to some.
You are saying that there is no difference between a £40 JK Carriere Dolores Estate Pinot Noir and, say, a Charmes Chambertin from Domaine Rousseau?
You're of course right about the tax calcs, though.0 -
Are the government going to bailout and possibly nationalise the premier league? Curious prospect.
Those billionaire club owners must be short of a few Bob.
0 -
Plenty, probably all of the former polys, and even a few of the ones that weren't.FrancisUrquhart said:
How many unis are going bust without a bail out?TheScreamingEagles said:
The tragedy for them was successive governments encouraged them to target foreign students, especially ones from China.1 -
Am more worried about lower leagues.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Can anyone seriously support financial aid to the Premier leagueTheScreamingEagles said:
As for your latter point, that would be a breach of contract.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up
Full-time and semi-pro non-league looks unsaveable.
For them loans are no use. Most are already heavily in debt. They have no prospect of ever paying it back.
Only season tickets service the debt.
Most rely on a wealthy bloke to write them off.0 -
lol. You always wheel out these long French names, like it proves something. Weird.TOPPING said:
Oh god we've had this conversation before and you embarrassed yourself then.LadyG said:
If you pay £4.95 for wine, £2.30 of that will be tax, and another £2 will be the cost of packaging, shipping, marketing. You are actually buying a bottle of wine worth about 27 pence.kinabalu said:
I find it cloying. But I'm a budget wine drinker. Perhaps if I was prepared to go above £4.95.Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.
Unsurprisingly, this wine will not be very good. It will be plonk. Better plonk that you got 30 years ago, thanks to the industralised wineries of the New World, but still plonk.
The sweet spot for value is about £15-£20. A bottle that costs £20 will be four times as expensive as yours, but the value of the wine itself will be 22 times higher. This is reflected in the taste.
Go above £40 and you are paying mostly for rarity and prestige, which is fairly pointless, tho appealing to some.
You are saying that there is no difference between a £40 JK Carriere Dolores Estate Pinot Noir and, say, a Charmes Chambertin from Domaine Rousseau?
You're of course right about the tax calcs, though.0 -
I'm sorry, but the government is not preventing the PL from functioning. If some clubs have banked on fans being allowed back this season, then they are complete ******* morons and deserve everything they get.TOPPING said:
The government is preventing the clubs from functioning. There is therefore an argument that they should receive financial aid from the government. Just like your local pub did when it was told it couldn't open.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up2 -
Wasn't nationalising the EPL a Jezza policy ?Jonathan said:Are the government going to bailout and possibly nationalise the premier league? Curious prospect.
Those billionaire club owners must be short of a few Bob.0 -
The lower league clubs do not have TV money or parachute payments or overseas kit sales etc.tlg86 said:
To a certain extent the lower league clubs are in a better position as they're all in it together and don't have players on three-year contracts. In the PL and Championship, the differences between those in a good position and those who have gambled will be larger.contrarian said:If the Prem have got their hands out for money, goodness knows what state the clubs down the pyramid are in.
How much more money does Sunak have left to give? Why isn;t he giving it?
gate receipts are very important.
The Standard reckons many are going to the wall. Its hard to disagree.
Cue Rishi. Can he afford it?1 -
Nope, they will offer support to various sports, take the RFU, today's announcement means the RFU will lose £120 million instead of the projected £107 million.Jonathan said:Are the government going to bailout and possibly nationalise the premier league? Curious prospect.
Those billionaire club owners must be short of a few Bob.
All the home nations are going to be fecked if the Six Nations are going to be held behind closed doors.0 -
How about something from Harlan Estate?LadyG said:
lol. You always wheel out these long French names, like it proves something. Weird.TOPPING said:
Oh god we've had this conversation before and you embarrassed yourself then.LadyG said:
If you pay £4.95 for wine, £2.30 of that will be tax, and another £2 will be the cost of packaging, shipping, marketing. You are actually buying a bottle of wine worth about 27 pence.kinabalu said:
I find it cloying. But I'm a budget wine drinker. Perhaps if I was prepared to go above £4.95.Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.
Unsurprisingly, this wine will not be very good. It will be plonk. Better plonk that you got 30 years ago, thanks to the industralised wineries of the New World, but still plonk.
The sweet spot for value is about £15-£20. A bottle that costs £20 will be four times as expensive as yours, but the value of the wine itself will be 22 times higher. This is reflected in the taste.
Go above £40 and you are paying mostly for rarity and prestige, which is fairly pointless, tho appealing to some.
You are saying that there is no difference between a £40 JK Carriere Dolores Estate Pinot Noir and, say, a Charmes Chambertin from Domaine Rousseau?
You're of course right about the tax calcs, though.0 -
Surely they're just mothballed until the time comes when they can come back? But the PL is viable, but three teams will be relegated at the end of the season. A further 13 won't make it into the Champions League. The urge to spend hasn't gone away.contrarian said:
The lower league clubs do not have TV money or parachute payments or overseas kit sales etc.tlg86 said:
To a certain extent the lower league clubs are in a better position as they're all in it together and don't have players on three-year contracts. In the PL and Championship, the differences between those in a good position and those who have gambled will be larger.contrarian said:If the Prem have got their hands out for money, goodness knows what state the clubs down the pyramid are in.
How much more money does Sunak have left to give? Why isn;t he giving it?
gate receipts are very important.
The Standard reckons many are going to the wall. Its hard to disagree.
Cue Rishi. Can he afford it?0 -
Cue Rishi then. Or an important slice of English life goes, probably never to return.dixiedean said:
Am more worried about lower leagues.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Can anyone seriously support financial aid to the Premier leagueTheScreamingEagles said:
As for your latter point, that would be a breach of contract.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up
Full-time and semi-pro non-league looks unsaveable.
For them loans are no use. Most are already heavily in debt. They have no prospect of ever paying it back.
Only season tickets service the debt.
Most rely on a wealthy bloke to write them off.0 -
BiB - I'm not sure that last bit does your argument much good.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, you forget the economic benefits that football clubs give to their cities and regions.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Can anyone seriously support financial aid to the Premier leagueTheScreamingEagles said:
As for your latter point, that would be a breach of contract.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up
I suspect they'll end up doing a Spain, where the loans are repaid once the stadiums re-open, also for every transfer fee the club pays, they have to repay the government the equivalent amount.
The Bank of England gave Spurs a £175 million loan recently.
Everton were given a £ 300 million pound loan by the council for the new stadium.
Boris Johnson effectively wasted £323 million quid on giving West Ham their new stadium.0 -
Biden is taking the left wing vote for granted.
https://twitter.com/jthverhovek/status/1308420202728689669?s=210 -
Once you get beyond the championship the money levels start to reach areas which aren't that bad.dixiedean said:
Am more worried about lower leagues.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Can anyone seriously support financial aid to the Premier leagueTheScreamingEagles said:
As for your latter point, that would be a breach of contract.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up
Full-time and semi-pro non-league looks unsaveable.
For them loans are no use. Most are already heavily in debt. They have no prospect of ever paying it back.
Only season tickets service the debt.
Most rely on a wealthy bloke to write them off.
Even so supporting league 1 and below would still cost £100m or so for the season unless the FA decides that footballers can be made redundant without penalties.0 -
The reason Liverpool did their transfer dealings last week was not on fans returning but the fact that new kit sales were 30% higher than normal, added other products, and the new Nike deal terms, that translated as nearly a 50% increase on the New Balance deal.tlg86 said:
I'm sorry, but the government is not preventing the PL from functioning. If some clubs have banked on fans being allowed back this season, then they are complete ******* morons and deserve everything they get.TOPPING said:
The government is preventing the clubs from functioning. There is therefore an argument that they should receive financial aid from the government. Just like your local pub did when it was told it couldn't open.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up0 -
Say what?!tlg86 said:
I'm sorry, but the government is not preventing the PL from functioning. If some clubs have banked on fans being allowed back this season, then they are complete ******* morons and deserve everything they get.TOPPING said:
The government is preventing the clubs from functioning. There is therefore an argument that they should receive financial aid from the government. Just like your local pub did when it was told it couldn't open.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up
The clubs are at fault because, for the first time in football history (correct me if I'm wrong), the government are forbidding any fans to attend games?0 -
Without support I would expect 15-25 football league clubs to go out of existence by the end of the season. Without support no Premier League clubs will go out of existence.tlg86 said:
To a certain extent the lower league clubs are in a better position as they're all in it together and don't have players on three-year contracts. In the PL and Championship, the differences between those in a good position and those who have gambled will be larger.contrarian said:If the Prem have got their hands out for money, goodness knows what state the clubs down the pyramid are in.
How much more money does Sunak have left to give? Why isn;t he giving it?
Partly due to TV money, and secondly they have a clear asset value that ensures others will buy them for prestige and guaranteed future revenue.
Despite the furore on here, AIUI the Premier League is working with the Football League on providing a rescue package. It will probably be on a very long term loan basis with Football League income for this year borrowed against the Premier Leagues future long term TV rights.0 -
But TSE and Topping have a point, it does look absurd to bail out the EPL, but it is a highly valuable industry, great for national branding, followed around the world, and brings in squillions to various cities, lots of them northern with not much else to sell.tlg86 said:
I'm sorry, but the government is not preventing the PL from functioning. If some clubs have banked on fans being allowed back this season, then they are complete ******* morons and deserve everything they get.TOPPING said:
The government is preventing the clubs from functioning. There is therefore an argument that they should receive financial aid from the government. Just like your local pub did when it was told it couldn't open.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up
London could survive the loss of Fulham or West Ham without much of a worry, but Liverpool without Liverpool and Everton would be severely harmed, economically.
It's a strange dilemma.0 -
Oh I know, I'm just pointing out that Big G's pearl clutching is selective.tlg86 said:
BiB - I'm not sure that last bit does your argument much good.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, you forget the economic benefits that football clubs give to their cities and regions.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Can anyone seriously support financial aid to the Premier leagueTheScreamingEagles said:
As for your latter point, that would be a breach of contract.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up
I suspect they'll end up doing a Spain, where the loans are repaid once the stadiums re-open, also for every transfer fee the club pays, they have to repay the government the equivalent amount.
The Bank of England gave Spurs a £175 million loan recently.
Everton were given a £ 300 million pound loan by the council for the new stadium.
Boris Johnson effectively wasted £323 million quid on giving West Ham their new stadium.
Mind you wait out until he finds out his club's huge debts are only being serviced by match day income.0 -
Surely Fulham would be worth zillions for land/development value? Not that I know anything about them but the owners might be dreaming of an opportunity to turn Craven Cottage into luxury apartments.LadyG said:
But TSE and Topping have a point, it does look absurd to bail out the EPL, but it is a highly valuable industry, great for national branding, followed around the world, and brings in squillions to various cities, lots of them northern with not much else to sell.tlg86 said:
I'm sorry, but the government is not preventing the PL from functioning. If some clubs have banked on fans being allowed back this season, then they are complete ******* morons and deserve everything they get.TOPPING said:
The government is preventing the clubs from functioning. There is therefore an argument that they should receive financial aid from the government. Just like your local pub did when it was told it couldn't open.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up
London could survive the loss of Fulham or West Ham without much of a worry, but Liverpool without Liverpool and Everton would be severely harmed, economically.
It's a strange dilemma.0 -
Unjustified for the government to leverage their position to make money for the exchequer? What?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is just wrong and unjustifiedGallowgate said:
Depends. If the Government through the BOE is positioned to make a significant profit on the loan via interest, why shouldn't we make such an investment?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I did not know that but on the wider issue of giving 100 million a month to the Premier league in this pandemic would be just wrong with so much need elsewhereTheScreamingEagles said:
The Government via the Bank of England gave Spurs a £175 million loan in the summer, did you object then?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up0 -
''Mothballed'' being a euphemism for 'mass redundancies of support staff and the destruction of a vital local community place....'tlg86 said:
Surely they're just mothballed until the time comes when they can come back? But the PL is viable, but three teams will be relegated at the end of the season. A further 13 won't make it into the Champions League. The urge to spend hasn't gone away.contrarian said:
The lower league clubs do not have TV money or parachute payments or overseas kit sales etc.tlg86 said:
To a certain extent the lower league clubs are in a better position as they're all in it together and don't have players on three-year contracts. In the PL and Championship, the differences between those in a good position and those who have gambled will be larger.contrarian said:If the Prem have got their hands out for money, goodness knows what state the clubs down the pyramid are in.
How much more money does Sunak have left to give? Why isn;t he giving it?
gate receipts are very important.
The Standard reckons many are going to the wall. Its hard to disagree.
Cue Rishi. Can he afford it?0 -
In most blind testing people can't tell the difference. When they see the price they prefer the more expensive one. Its a very effective snob tax.LadyG said:
If you pay £4.95 for wine, £2.30 of that will be tax, and another £2 will be the cost of packaging, shipping, marketing. You are actually buying a bottle of wine worth about 27 pence.kinabalu said:
I find it cloying. But I'm a budget wine drinker. Perhaps if I was prepared to go above £4.95.Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.
Unsurprisingly, this wine will not be very good. It will be plonk. Better plonk that you got 30 years ago, thanks to the industralised wineries of the New World, but still plonk.
The sweet spot for value is about £15-£20. A bottle that costs £20 will be four times as expensive as yours, but the value of the wine itself will be 22 times higher. This is reflected in the taste.
Go above £40 and you are paying mostly for rarity and prestige, which is fairly pointless, tho appealing to some.0 -
I think I love this guy!williamglenn said:Biden is taking the left wing vote for granted.
https://twitter.com/jthverhovek/status/1308420202728689669?s=21
2 -
Well I think it is more that the clubs signed players on expensive contracts before any of the COVID situation was known about.tlg86 said:
I'm sorry, but the government is not preventing the PL from functioning. If some clubs have banked on fans being allowed back this season, then they are complete ******* morons and deserve everything they get.TOPPING said:
The government is preventing the clubs from functioning. There is therefore an argument that they should receive financial aid from the government. Just like your local pub did when it was told it couldn't open.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up0 -
Clubs haven't spent much this transfer window as they've been cautious, those that have spent money have been bankrolled by nations and oligarchs, but some have spent, yes I'm looking at you Arsenal and Everton, on the assumption fans would return from October, that was a mistake.TOPPING said:
Say what?!tlg86 said:
I'm sorry, but the government is not preventing the PL from functioning. If some clubs have banked on fans being allowed back this season, then they are complete ******* morons and deserve everything they get.TOPPING said:
The government is preventing the clubs from functioning. There is therefore an argument that they should receive financial aid from the government. Just like your local pub did when it was told it couldn't open.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up
The clubs are at fault because, for the first time in football history (correct me if I'm wrong), the government are forbidding any fans to attend games?0 -
Have you ever tried Georgian orange wine? I had a few bottles recently. It's quite unique, and sometimes absolutely delicious.TOPPING said:
How about something from Harlan Estate?LadyG said:
lol. You always wheel out these long French names, like it proves something. Weird.TOPPING said:
Oh god we've had this conversation before and you embarrassed yourself then.LadyG said:
If you pay £4.95 for wine, £2.30 of that will be tax, and another £2 will be the cost of packaging, shipping, marketing. You are actually buying a bottle of wine worth about 27 pence.kinabalu said:
I find it cloying. But I'm a budget wine drinker. Perhaps if I was prepared to go above £4.95.Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.
Unsurprisingly, this wine will not be very good. It will be plonk. Better plonk that you got 30 years ago, thanks to the industralised wineries of the New World, but still plonk.
The sweet spot for value is about £15-£20. A bottle that costs £20 will be four times as expensive as yours, but the value of the wine itself will be 22 times higher. This is reflected in the taste.
Go above £40 and you are paying mostly for rarity and prestige, which is fairly pointless, tho appealing to some.
You are saying that there is no difference between a £40 JK Carriere Dolores Estate Pinot Noir and, say, a Charmes Chambertin from Domaine Rousseau?
You're of course right about the tax calcs, though.
https://www.qvevriwines.co.uk/product/meskhuri-tetri-white_2015/
I think this is an interesting case where a price over £40 is justified by rarity.0 -
But they aren't going to go under. Some clubs will suffer more than others. Three will go down at the end of the season.LadyG said:
But TSE and Topping have a point, it does look absurd to bail out the EPL, but it is a highly valuable industry, great for national branding, followed around the world, and brings in squillions to various cities, lots of them northern with not much else to sell.tlg86 said:
I'm sorry, but the government is not preventing the PL from functioning. If some clubs have banked on fans being allowed back this season, then they are complete ******* morons and deserve everything they get.TOPPING said:
The government is preventing the clubs from functioning. There is therefore an argument that they should receive financial aid from the government. Just like your local pub did when it was told it couldn't open.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up
London could survive the loss of Fulham or West Ham without much of a worry, but Liverpool without Liverpool and Everton would be severely harmed, economically.
It's a strange dilemma.
Oh come on, it was obvious that this was always a possibility. Arsenal got in early and got their fans to cough upwards of £250 to have a chance of getting tickets in the ballot. They knew what they were doing. There's no chance that the club will be refunding the fans that money any time soon.TOPPING said:
Say what?!tlg86 said:
I'm sorry, but the government is not preventing the PL from functioning. If some clubs have banked on fans being allowed back this season, then they are complete ******* morons and deserve everything they get.TOPPING said:
The government is preventing the clubs from functioning. There is therefore an argument that they should receive financial aid from the government. Just like your local pub did when it was told it couldn't open.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up
The clubs are at fault because, for the first time in football history (correct me if I'm wrong), the government are forbidding any fans to attend games?
The PL clubs get a fortune from TV rights. The gate receipts are just a nice bonus these days.0 -
Well he is not a socialist! I know lying was effective for the current President, but it should not be encouraged.williamglenn said:Biden is taking the left wing vote for granted.
https://twitter.com/jthverhovek/status/1308420202728689669?s=210 -
Term limits would be the best response.kinabalu said:
A touch hyperbolic. The SC is very important but it does not govern America. Not even close. Plus if a crazily Con judge is rammed through now for a 6/3 bias the Dems will mitigate either with term limits or expansion of the court from 9 to 11.CarlottaVance said:
A 20 year limit would retire Thomas and Breyer - and leave a 5-4 Republican court, which would be a restoration of the status quo before the Garland affair.
A non partisan reform which would justify no retaliation - particularly as it retires a liberal and a conservative.
Then move in the direction of restoring balance to the Senate with statehood for Puerto Rico and North Virginia.
Stir in an exercise of Article III power, and that ought to be more than sufficient payback. In an entirely principled and non partisan manner.0 -
That's assuming the drinker can tell the difference between one wine and another theoretically 22 times better.LadyG said:
If you pay £4.95 for wine, £2.30 of that will be tax, and another £2 will be the cost of packaging, shipping, marketing. You are actually buying a bottle of wine worth about 27 pence.kinabalu said:
I find it cloying. But I'm a budget wine drinker. Perhaps if I was prepared to go above £4.95.Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.
Unsurprisingly, this wine will not be very good. It will be plonk. Better plonk that you got 30 years ago, thanks to the industralised wineries of the New World, but still plonk.
The sweet spot for value is about £15-£20. A bottle that costs £20 will be four times as expensive as yours, but the value of the wine itself will be 22 times higher. This is reflected in the taste.
Go above £40 and you are paying mostly for rarity and prestige, which is fairly pointless, tho appealing to some.
If they cannot - and plenty of the people buying the £20 wine will not be able to - then they're wasting their money.0 -
It seems odd to try to contextualize our historical racist crimes against black people by reference to the historical crimes of black people against other black people. It sounds rather like the more topical and oft heard (almost undoubtedly racist) sentiment, "Yeah, sure, Black Lives Matter, yada yada. But how about they start by not killing each other so much." That's what it sounds like to me anyway.Richard_Nabavi said:
You don't need to ponder, it's all well documented in the history books. You might need to ponder a bit more about what the slave-owning and slave-trading Ashanti and Benin peoples believed in the 18th century, but I'm pretty certain it wouldn't have been entirely Woke.kinabalu said:
It's interesting to ponder what the unenlightened believed about race back then.0 -
Absolutely. Most people can't tell the difference. As I said earlier, at room temperature most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a red and white wine.noneoftheabove said:
In most blind testing people can't tell the difference. When they see the price they prefer the more expensive one. Its a very effective snob tax.LadyG said:
If you pay £4.95 for wine, £2.30 of that will be tax, and another £2 will be the cost of packaging, shipping, marketing. You are actually buying a bottle of wine worth about 27 pence.kinabalu said:
I find it cloying. But I'm a budget wine drinker. Perhaps if I was prepared to go above £4.95.Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.
Unsurprisingly, this wine will not be very good. It will be plonk. Better plonk that you got 30 years ago, thanks to the industralised wineries of the New World, but still plonk.
The sweet spot for value is about £15-£20. A bottle that costs £20 will be four times as expensive as yours, but the value of the wine itself will be 22 times higher. This is reflected in the taste.
Go above £40 and you are paying mostly for rarity and prestige, which is fairly pointless, tho appealing to some.
But there is a significant difference between a £40 bottle of wine and a £200 bottle of wine for those that do know the difference.0 -
Have Vallance and Whitty redrawn their graph yet ?0
-
The major labels contracts are robbery.williamglenn said:Len McCluskey has obviously joined Kanye West’s campaign team.
https://twitter.com/kanyewest/status/1308443797802508290?s=21
They are truly vile documents.0 -
A Notorious COVID Troll Actually Works for Dr. Fauci’s Agency
https://www.thedailybeast.com/redstate-covid-troll-streiff-is-actually-bill-crews-and-he-actually-works-for-dr-anthony-fauci
Bill Crews is a PR official at the National Institutes of Health. But he also has another job: an anonymous RedState editor who rails against the agency for which he works.0 -
Depends, I suppose. Maybe the Socialists in the US would figure that another four years of Trump might make American voters think that even Socialism might not be such a bad thing.williamglenn said:Biden is taking the left wing vote for granted.
https://twitter.com/jthverhovek/status/1308420202728689669?s=210 -
Willian says hello.DAlexander said:
Well I think it is more that the clubs signed players on expensive contracts before any of the COVID situation was known about.tlg86 said:
I'm sorry, but the government is not preventing the PL from functioning. If some clubs have banked on fans being allowed back this season, then they are complete ******* morons and deserve everything they get.TOPPING said:
The government is preventing the clubs from functioning. There is therefore an argument that they should receive financial aid from the government. Just like your local pub did when it was told it couldn't open.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Do you support tax payers money being given to the premier league or notTOPPING said:
Absolutely. Let's destroy the Premier League which is not at all the envy of the world.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up0 -
But they don't go unscrutinised, do they? In fact, you scrutinise them downthread, and criticism of the beliefs of some Muslims on sexuality, women and so forth has been endlessly scrutinised for many years now - including by Muslims themselves. I've read all about it.LadyG said:
The views of hundreds of millions of Muslims, today, are very very far from Woke. Yet, curiously, they go unscrutinized.Richard_Nabavi said:
You don't need to ponder, it's all well documented in the history books. You might need to ponder a bit more about what the slave-owning and slave-trading Ashanti and Benin peoples believed in the 18th century, but I'm pretty certain it wouldn't have been entirely Woke.kinabalu said:
It's interesting to ponder what the unenlightened believed about race back then.1 -
Absolutely.another_richard said:
That's assuming the drinker can tell the difference between one wine and another theoretically 22 times better.LadyG said:
If you pay £4.95 for wine, £2.30 of that will be tax, and another £2 will be the cost of packaging, shipping, marketing. You are actually buying a bottle of wine worth about 27 pence.kinabalu said:
I find it cloying. But I'm a budget wine drinker. Perhaps if I was prepared to go above £4.95.Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.
Unsurprisingly, this wine will not be very good. It will be plonk. Better plonk that you got 30 years ago, thanks to the industralised wineries of the New World, but still plonk.
The sweet spot for value is about £15-£20. A bottle that costs £20 will be four times as expensive as yours, but the value of the wine itself will be 22 times higher. This is reflected in the taste.
Go above £40 and you are paying mostly for rarity and prestige, which is fairly pointless, tho appealing to some.
If they cannot - and plenty of the people buying the £20 wine will not be able to - then they're wasting their money.0 -
Surely the road to enlightenment is more historical context, not less. That's what we keep being told, anyway...kinabalu said:
It seems odd to try to contextualize our historical racist crimes against black people by reference to the historical crimes of black people against other black people. It sounds rather like the more topical and oft heard (almost undoubtedly racist) sentiment, "Yeah, sure, Black Lives Matter, yada yada. But how about they start by not killing each other so much." That's what it sounds like to me anyway.Richard_Nabavi said:
You don't need to ponder, it's all well documented in the history books. You might need to ponder a bit more about what the slave-owning and slave-trading Ashanti and Benin peoples believed in the 18th century, but I'm pretty certain it wouldn't have been entirely Woke.kinabalu said:
It's interesting to ponder what the unenlightened believed about race back then.0 -
Pretty sure it is £160?TOPPING said:
Absolutely. Most people can't tell the difference. As I said earlier, at room temperature most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a red and white wine.noneoftheabove said:
In most blind testing people can't tell the difference. When they see the price they prefer the more expensive one. Its a very effective snob tax.LadyG said:
If you pay £4.95 for wine, £2.30 of that will be tax, and another £2 will be the cost of packaging, shipping, marketing. You are actually buying a bottle of wine worth about 27 pence.kinabalu said:
I find it cloying. But I'm a budget wine drinker. Perhaps if I was prepared to go above £4.95.Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.
Unsurprisingly, this wine will not be very good. It will be plonk. Better plonk that you got 30 years ago, thanks to the industralised wineries of the New World, but still plonk.
The sweet spot for value is about £15-£20. A bottle that costs £20 will be four times as expensive as yours, but the value of the wine itself will be 22 times higher. This is reflected in the taste.
Go above £40 and you are paying mostly for rarity and prestige, which is fairly pointless, tho appealing to some.
But there is a significant difference between a £40 bottle of wine and a £200 bottle of wine for those that do know the difference.1 -
Looks intriguing.LadyG said:
Have you ever tried Georgian orange wine? I had a few bottles recently. It's quite unique, and sometimes absolutely delicious.TOPPING said:
How about something from Harlan Estate?LadyG said:
lol. You always wheel out these long French names, like it proves something. Weird.TOPPING said:
Oh god we've had this conversation before and you embarrassed yourself then.LadyG said:
If you pay £4.95 for wine, £2.30 of that will be tax, and another £2 will be the cost of packaging, shipping, marketing. You are actually buying a bottle of wine worth about 27 pence.kinabalu said:
I find it cloying. But I'm a budget wine drinker. Perhaps if I was prepared to go above £4.95.Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.
Unsurprisingly, this wine will not be very good. It will be plonk. Better plonk that you got 30 years ago, thanks to the industralised wineries of the New World, but still plonk.
The sweet spot for value is about £15-£20. A bottle that costs £20 will be four times as expensive as yours, but the value of the wine itself will be 22 times higher. This is reflected in the taste.
Go above £40 and you are paying mostly for rarity and prestige, which is fairly pointless, tho appealing to some.
You are saying that there is no difference between a £40 JK Carriere Dolores Estate Pinot Noir and, say, a Charmes Chambertin from Domaine Rousseau?
You're of course right about the tax calcs, though.
https://www.qvevriwines.co.uk/product/meskhuri-tetri-white_2015/
I think this is an interesting case where a price over £40 is justified by rarity.
But it's precisely because there are all these hidden gems that many people prefer to stick to the ones they know and, for UK wine drinkers, that is mainly France and then Italy.0 -
I know you are an all or nothing kind of guy, frequently all and nothing in the same evening, but I disagree with your assertion that you have to adopt an extreme position on this.LadyG said:
What about a gay student being taught by a devout, conservative Muslim lecturer? The student will know that the Muslim teacher finds him abhorrent and perverse and deserving of severe punishment, just for what he is - gay - the same way a black student would find a far right racist teacher offensive.OnlyLivingBoy said:
But this is a building not a statue. If you're going to have a plaque saying "Hume Tower" and then another pointing out that Hume was a bit of a racist and explaining the context, it might just be easier to rename it.LadyG said:
That looks extremely grisly and repellent to modern eyes, but the painful fact is that this was received opinion amongst the educated (and maybe uneducated) classes right across Europe, at that time.FF43 said:
That's what I thought. But this is problematic:Richard_Nabavi said:
Given that David Hume was one of the greatest figures of the Scottish Enlightenment, I'd have thought Scottish institutions should be naming new buildings after him, not removing his name from existing ones, given the astonishing degree of ignorance there seems to be about him.OnlyLivingBoy said:
As far as I know the NT isn't proposing to rename any of their properties, they simply want to provide more information to visitors, which seems about as far from "rewriting history" as it's possible to be. I'm not qualified to talk about the example you give since the only thing I know about Hume is his role in developing the quantity theory of money. Mind you, I think there is a difference between naming a building after somebody and simply having the building go by its street address, since the name of the street is outwith their control, and in any case who knows which George is being referred to? Could be George Clooney.
I am apt to suspect the Negroes to be naturally inferior to the Whites. There never was a civilized nation of any other complexion than white, nor even any individual eminent either in action or speculation. No ingenious manufacturer amongst them, no arts, no sciences. On the other hand, the most rude and barbarous of the Whites, such as the ancient German, the present Tartars, still have something eminent about them, in their valor, form of government, or some other particular. Such a uniform and constant difference could not happen in so many countries and ages, if nature had not made an original distinction betwixt these breeds of men. Not to mention our colonies, there are Negro slaves dispersed all over Europe, of whom none ever discovered any symptoms of ingenuity; though low people, without education, will start up amongst us, and distinguish themselves in every profession. In Jamaica, indeed, they talk of one Negro as a man of parts and learning; but it is likely he is admired for slender accomplishments, like a parrot who speaks a few words plainly.
Anyone who didn't think like this was the exception. And they are rare.
So you either tear down every statue or you put them in context. The latter is surely better.
This is a difficult one for me, I certainly understand the different standards/different times argument and that Hume was a noteworthy man, but I also understand that a black student or staff member may feel uncomfortable working in a building named after somebody who thought they were an inferior kind of human being, or might wonder about the attitude of the University to these issues. Of course many might be totally fine about it, but I don't think I'm the right person to make that call and I think it is important that elite institutions like universities do their best to remove barriers to underrepresented groups.
You either police all of history and thought, or you generally have to accept it, warts and all.
On the first case you mention, I would ask has this lecturer said publicly that gay people should be punished? If so then I don't think he can really teach in a university for the reason you give, since no gay student could be sure they would be treated fairly. Simply being an observant Muslim does not mean he holds those views. I don't work in HR but I would have thought that publicly calling for gay people to be beaten or beheaded would fall foul of something in a standard employment contract.
The Hume example is different because Hume no longer works at Edinburgh university so it's not a question of balancing Hume's rights against anyone else's. Hume is dead and has no rights. I think there is a strong but not unarguable case for renaming the building. I don't think I am the correct person to make that call, since as a white heterosexual middle class male there are few historical figures who called for me to have no rights, or said it was OK for me to be someone else's property, or that I shouldn't be allowed to love who I wanted to, or that I was an inferior human being. Perhaps Edinburgh should have had a consultation with BAME staff and students to see how they felt about it. Maybe they were OK with the name, I don't know.
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The NFL won't ask for or need a bailout. Instead teams over the 2021 salary cap *Saints & Eagles* are going to sign less new contracts/trade/restructure/release to teams who have managed their finances well like the Patriots.0
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There was a famous tasting where a load of young French wine "experts" were given whites that had been secretly coloured red (without affecting the taste). The experts were unable to tell red from white. The colours fooled them into finding "red" flavours in white winesnoneoftheabove said:
In most blind testing people can't tell the difference. When they see the price they prefer the more expensive one. Its a very effective snob tax.LadyG said:
If you pay £4.95 for wine, £2.30 of that will be tax, and another £2 will be the cost of packaging, shipping, marketing. You are actually buying a bottle of wine worth about 27 pence.kinabalu said:
I find it cloying. But I'm a budget wine drinker. Perhaps if I was prepared to go above £4.95.Nigelb said:
For some reason, Chardonnay has always tasted of soap to me.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's not a Chardonnay, it's a Trebbiano, so it won't be the wine you had (or else you were mistaken on the grape).Gallowgate said:Wine experts of PB, I had a deliciously sweet and crisp Chardonnay at an Italian restaurant a while back and I think it was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colombella-Bianco-Salento-Puglia-2011/dp/B00CJEDZKM#ace-g3536363283
It doesn't seem to be widely available. What do I need to look for if I want to buy something similar? I know nothing about wine apart from that specific one being delicious.
There are lots of good white wines from Puglia, and indeed all over Italy, nowadays.
Unsurprisingly, this wine will not be very good. It will be plonk. Better plonk that you got 30 years ago, thanks to the industralised wineries of the New World, but still plonk.
The sweet spot for value is about £15-£20. A bottle that costs £20 will be four times as expensive as yours, but the value of the wine itself will be 22 times higher. This is reflected in the taste.
Go above £40 and you are paying mostly for rarity and prestige, which is fairly pointless, tho appealing to some.
I always find it hard to believe, but it is apparently true.
https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/08/the_most_infamous_study_on_wine_tasting.html
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How much money did cricket get?noneoftheabove said:
Without support I would expect 15-25 football league clubs to go out of existence by the end of the season. Without support no Premier League clubs will go out of existence.tlg86 said:
To a certain extent the lower league clubs are in a better position as they're all in it together and don't have players on three-year contracts. In the PL and Championship, the differences between those in a good position and those who have gambled will be larger.contrarian said:If the Prem have got their hands out for money, goodness knows what state the clubs down the pyramid are in.
How much more money does Sunak have left to give? Why isn;t he giving it?
Partly due to TV money, and secondly they have a clear asset value that ensures others will buy them for prestige and guaranteed future revenue.
Despite the furore on here, AIUI the Premier League is working with the Football League on providing a rescue package. It will probably be on a very long term loan basis with Football League income for this year borrowed against the Premier Leagues future long term TV rights.0 -
I know they are and maybe that is why Manchester United have not yet agreed a 100 million dealTheScreamingEagles said:
Oh I know, I'm just pointing out that Big G's pearl clutching is selective.tlg86 said:
BiB - I'm not sure that last bit does your argument much good.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, you forget the economic benefits that football clubs give to their cities and regions.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Can anyone seriously support financial aid to the Premier leagueTheScreamingEagles said:
As for your latter point, that would be a breach of contract.Big_G_NorthWales said:It seems the Premier League are pleading for financial aid following the delay in allowing fans into grounds
You do have to wonder what planet they are on.
Apparently 100 million a month is suggested , just the amount Manchester United are considering paying for one player
Not one penny should be given to these clubs who pay millions for players and millions a week for wages
Time to take an axe to the number of players on their books and their salaries if they are so hard up
I suspect they'll end up doing a Spain, where the loans are repaid once the stadiums re-open, also for every transfer fee the club pays, they have to repay the government the equivalent amount.
The Bank of England gave Spurs a £175 million loan recently.
Everton were given a £ 300 million pound loan by the council for the new stadium.
Boris Johnson effectively wasted £323 million quid on giving West Ham their new stadium.
Mind you wait out until he finds out his club's huge debts are only being serviced by match day income.0
